SeaToSea

[faint summit]

Yes but you said every biome they spawn in.

[errant cairn]

fixed

[faint summit]

Well, not sure I'll be investigating any more into that, I've got the grains I wanted.

[errant cairn]

true

so all is well

[faint summit]

And I've already spent an innordinate amount of time looking into it.

[errant cairn]

I also have like 10 of those because i started very early on 😭

I still have no use for them

[faint summit]

Their PDA entry doesn't really give much inclination as to their ideal conditions and neither do the places you find them in.

[trail ether]

what?

oh you mean naturally

[faint summit]

Yes

Also one completely unrelated peculiarity. What is the ||rose lily|| for?

I remember finding it and not being able to scan it, it has no PDA entry, and no apparent use.

And found in only one very specific cave system.

[barren oar]

the what

first time i hear of that lol

[trail ether]

decoration

it was an accidental creation https://i.imgur.com/pq2lAlh.png

[barren oar]

is that not for the nozzlevine?

since iirc its also pink

[trail ether]

no

[barren oar]

i see

[trail ether]

https://i.imgur.com/xhnSA2U.png

[barren oar]

is it going to get some kind of use though

[faint summit]

Lmao, it's a really cool find none the less.

[barren oar]

you're very likely to find it (nozzle) with the exploring you need to do around the area lol

[trail ether]

it has a use

[barren oar]

oh cool last i played it didnt

[faint summit]

I think you can put them in the bio reactor.

[barren oar]

or not one that i could find

[trail ether]

https://i.imgur.com/7rsJRG4.png

[barren oar]

oh so its still useless rip

[faint summit]

But pretty

[trail ether]

https://i.imgur.com/E7PCxwp.png

[faint summit]

Morrowind says that I can in fact enjoy something resultant from theft.

Of course earning the grandmaster alchemist set is far more fun if you fought for it.

[barren oar]

how many items does the lamp generate per second

[trail ether]

https://i.imgur.com/lbfDVN5.png https://i.imgur.com/Jz1I48L.png

[barren oar]

well this is a completely bad faith argument

[trail ether]

zero

[barren oar]

my viewpoint is that if it doesnt directly help with progression its not useful

[trail ether]

slightly negative in fact if you consider render frames as items

[barren oar]

because that's what games are, progression

not living a slow life in a world that's, at best, not very kind to you, and actively malicious from another perspective (the bacterium...)

[faint summit]

The world is what I make of it I find, even if it is unobjectively unkind or hostile.

[barren oar]

e.g. would you consider a redstone lamp useful in RLCraft

[trail ether]

i cannot tell if you are being sarcastic

[barren oar]

while it may read so, i am not

my understanding is rlcraft mobs (lycanite's, in particular) always know where you are, will dig through blocks to reach you and some may even spawn in full light

Is that inaccurate?

[worldly valve]

I assumed rose lilly eas big on deco but never used it post update

[barren oar]

is it not a water plant?

oh maybe aquarium plants count towards deco

because im fairly certain acu plants do not

or did not, back during my playthrough

[faint summit]

It is a water plant.

Unless there is some integration with an aquarium mod that allows you to plant flora in them then there is no way it can effect room decoration.

[barren oar]

oh do aquariums not allow plants at all?

unfortunate

[worldly valve]

Well i can acxept being wrong

It was such a pretty plant even my cold heart was touched

[trail ether]

I have never ever used the mod

[trail ether]

no

it can be planted in either

[barren oar]

i see

[unreal flame]

consider that decorations do in fact help with progression in C2C

[barren oar]

they arent vital just qol so you dont shave off six years off your life from crafting

[worldly valve]

It also affecta swim speed

Which will take more yeara off your life

(Least it did last pacth i touched. Was super noticable. Sometimes my seaglide was slower than swimming too🥲)

[unreal flame]

i think you should probably know that reika explicitly designs against "I only do what I need to progress"

[barren oar]

no shit lol

[worldly valve]

I keep meaning to update n test a couple things

[faint summit]

It's less of that and moreso needing to do everything to progress.

Lmao

But I'm here for it.

[trail plinth]

Ye

Crag fields had a ton when i was hanging around there

[faint summit]

Crag fields are definitely a primary source of them.

[trail plinth]

Tbh i never bothered with getting them from the crags

[faint summit]

Crags are kind of in the ass end of nowhere.

Lot of silver and quartz though.

[trail plinth]

Normally im apprehensive to go there because i have a long standing problem with how aggressive bone sharks are, but a different menace took that title in my current run...

[worldly valve]

My fav base biome vorner is nesr craga

The one above one of the main jellucave entrances

That spot is too good

You can scan for basically every resource

Tho some are scarxe

[worldly valve]

5 stabbings is a dead boneshark

[trail plinth]

I only reserve killing creatures for bleeders, otherwise i avoid killing stuff as much as possible

[worldly valve]

That is fair

Bone sharks were just so aggro and i got sick of the packs

[wispy kelp]

so what does swapping back to og legacy do exactly

like is it dangerous in the sense of like

if i download other stuff it can go through subnautica?

[unreal flame]

something like that

[wispy kelp]

wait wdym

you gotta elaborate on this

because how else am i supposed to play c2c

[unreal flame]

if an older unity version is installed, malware can use it to elevate its own privileges

[wispy kelp]

would it in your opinion be safe to do this for c2c

because i did the depot thing

because im just

like

dude how do i play c2c

like

[unreal flame]

just don't donload anything stupid ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[wispy kelp]

wdym by stupid

[unreal flame]

gotta be extra careful about malware

[wispy kelp]

n8

brother

how else am i supposed to play c2c

i

[unreal flame]

you literally can't?

i guess if you want to set up a VM for that express purpose or something

[wispy kelp]

wdym

[unreal flame]

a virtual machine

[wispy kelp]

wait so did i just do the depot thing

for like

nothing

[unreal flame]

fucking, i don't know, that's up to you

[wispy kelp]

like downloaded the depot and swapped the files

brother im trying to figure this out

is it even safe to boot up the legacy version then or wha

[trail plinth]

The legacy version itself isnt dangerous, but it can act as a privelage elevator for any other malware on your computer

[unreal flame]

i mean the vulnerability technically existed since 2019

[wispy kelp]

i haven't like

booted up the game ever since subnautica forcerfully like

did

the thing

and now i dont even think subnautica works now after doing the depot thing

because its not opening for some reason

[unreal flame]

i wouldn't be able to help you there

[wispy kelp]

i did what that message said to do exactly guh

oh okay i cant open it from steam then

or no now subnauticas just

insta crashing

great so im just fucked out of c2c then

@unreal flame sorry btw im not mad at you or anything of that caliber im just

like i installed the legacy depot so im just ???

@trail plinth

gen question

have you been like

even able to play

let me try verifying the files i guess

yeah im just

gonna have to wait for mods to go to 2.0 then

stuffs not working how its supposed to trying to go back to legacy

@unreal flame thanks regardless

[trail plinth]

I never updated my subnautica out of legacy, never used the alternative launchers/depots/etc

I just indefinitely paused the update before it started

These are probably questions that are more relevant to the help/support channel for this kind of thing

[trail ether]

https://i.imgur.com/tBUA6E7.png

also https://i.imgur.com/gV7yM4T.png

            public AmbientMoraleInfluence setEnv(float force, float baseline) {
                foreach (Environment e in Enum.GetValues(typeof(Environment))) {
                    setEnv(force, baseline, e);
                }
                return this;
            }

            public AmbientMoraleInfluence setEnv(float force, float baseline, Environment e) {
                MoraleInfluence inf = new MoraleInfluence(force, baseline);
                switch (e) {
                    case Environment.FREEDIVE:
                        freeDiving = inf;
                        break;
                    case Environment.CYCLOPS:
                        cyclops = inf;
                        break;
                    case Environment.SEAMOTH:
                        seamoth = inf;
                        break;
                    case Environment.PRAWN:
                        prawn = inf;
                        break;
                    case Environment.SEABASE:
                        seabase = inf;
                        break;
                }
                return this;
            }```

force meaning per-second constant application

[faint summit]

Oh, some planned de-extinction integration.

Or mayber it's already implemented, I'm not using it after all.

Also some reworks to how much morale you lose while in certain vehicles?

[trail plinth]

there's a lot of integration already, this is just for a specific gulper having some tendencies to wander where it shouldn't

[trail ether]

ambient morale influence from biome

previously it was done entirely using force

[errant cairn]

I have too. I kept a version on my system

[wispy kelp]

well i just

didnt get a choice in subnautica updating and

trying to revert back is making it not possible

and it updated the save in my attempts so

[faint summit]

I assume this means that other morale influencers can be used to negate the negative impacts of certain biomes.

Since it's no longer forcing a morale baseline.

[trail ether]

the effect is cumulative but always has been

but it is much easier to counteract baseline influence vs force

[worldly valve]

So cannot help you but you vould try to pirate an older version if you are desperate but

[wispy kelp]

im

not doing that.

[worldly valve]

Fair

Did you by chance buy it on GoG

That "might" be a solution

[wispy kelp]

no i got it on steam

[worldly valve]

Well in that case eventually ill fihure out how to downgrade myself and ill let you know

You could ask reddit subnautica

Or keep fiddling with the downloader

But my interests are mad add so isk when that will be

[faint summit]

Can someone verify if you're supposed to have the mk1 depth module for the prawn suit after building it? I have the mk2 but not the mk1.

[trail ether]

you do not

that databox is on the newer side - it might be newer than when you got the gating thing there

[trail ether]

um https://i.imgur.com/oyK7Oa7.jpeg

i am not sure what is more WTF and/or hilarious

the sea treader that fell through the terrain into the deep grand reef

or the fact that it has a large accumulation of poop behind it

[errant cairn]

can confirm is both

[trail plinth]

oh hey the large amount of pinned recipes is back again

[karmic drum]

Huh... for some reason I was expecting a drill arm to be more expensive

[trail plinth]

The prawn itself is already expensive

[trail plinth]

@trail ether clipped as you requested

also this one

[trail plinth]

for context, I hadn't heard nor seen any reaper activity for like 15 seconds before I got out of my seamoth

[barren oar]

thats actually some cool tech

not terribly useful since you're going to be safer by just running away. but cool

[trail plinth]

you mean the anchor pod or the unlock from being grabbed by a reaper

cause the anchor pods were a surprise and are probably just gonna be set to be immune to being blasted away lmao (if I had to guess)

[barren oar]

former

you can navigate to the replied-to message by clicking on the message preview (in this case, "tap to see attachment")

[trail plinth]

you said running away, which to me implies avoiding something that would be mobile, rather than a stationary sea mine

[barren oar]

yes, launching the mine into creatures that are following you

is that not also what you did in the video?

[unreal flame]

i'd say it should still detonate them

[trail plinth]

no, I blasted a warper earlier and accidentally caught a membrane tree in the blast, which prompted reika to comment on whether or not it would work on anchor pods

[trail plinth]

oh yeah for sure, they'll detonate from breathing on them too hard

[barren oar]

ah, the tentacles I was seeing flailing about after being hit were the anchor pod's... well, anchor

kind of hard to notice far away details, on mobile more-so

[trail plinth]

oh yeah that's what was really funny about it, cause the entire thing is one object, so it just kinda spins around wildly when subject to physics

[faint summit]

The ion power is mine.

All mine.

[faint summit]

Where in progression would it be? Normally I wouldn't ask so directly but if I did pass it I would like to know.

[trail ether]

midgame

slightly pre-LR

[errant cairn]

Is it a problem that 2 blips of Geyser Coral are under the map?
Specifically scanner blips
One appears and disappears too (I used the stat rifle in the cave with them all once)

[faint summit]

Omg I found it.

I was out here fighting the natives for shiny rocks and saw a wreck on the map.

All the way tf out here.

Always wondered why there was nothing out here in vanilla.

[faint summit]

My vehicle has been lodged into a wall, how may I get it out, warpforward does nothing.

[errant cairn]

Seamoth, Prawn Suit or Cyclops?

Because unless its a precursor base, you can just phase back into the playable area if you're on the other side of the wall

They made terrain one sided for some reason

[faint summit]

It is a precursor base 🙁

[errant cairn]

Well try backing out of the wall

[trail ether]

that should never ever happen

[trail ether]

get in it and run c2cpoi origin

[errant cairn]

Well it did. I dmed you about it but you never responded

[trail ether]

this will take you and it to 000

[errant cairn]

oh shit fr?

thats peak

[trail ether]

it probably got buried under 20 other PM requests

[errant cairn]

Probably

[errant cairn]

Could the stasis rifle cause it? (I shot it and some parts of the cave ended up at 0,0,0)

(based on their distance from the middle of...something)

[faint summit]

Ty

[errant cairn]

and before you ask no I did not see Geyser Coral at 0,0,0 and even if I did I can't scan it

Ironically I'm stuck at 19/21

[faint summit]

So odd thing, the command warped us to 000 but when I get in the seamoth it cannot move at all. I tried moving it with the propulsion cannon in both modes and it does not help.

[errant cairn]

Do it again

[barren oar]

stasis rifle is just an awful tool in general, it can dislodge things that shouldn't move somehow-or-other

[errant cairn]

or shove a powercell in it

[errant cairn]

So can the prop or rep cannon

[barren oar]

how do you move an abandoned base with a propulsion/repulsion cannon

the things they can target are intentionally made to be targettable

[errant cairn]

Stat rifle doesnt do that

iirc

doesn't move abandoned bases

[barren oar]

i guess with the exception of the anchor pods being movable by repulsion in the current update

[barren oar]

did you try?

last i tried, it did

and i wasnt the only one to see it happen

[errant cairn]

Repulsion cannon indiscriminately shoots things to space

[barren oar]

the deep grand reef base, specifically

[errant cairn]

No I didn't

[barren oar]

things which don't have their physics set to kinematic/static mode...

well, static isnt exactly right, but they aren't affected by stuff like gravity, which all things that can be pro/repulsed are (afaik)

[errant cairn]

Everything has gravity. Even without a WorldForces Component. (I know this because I did some testing and my mods that have a hand held fabricator, like UpgradesLIB or AIOHHF, if I drop it, it phases through the floor and ignores all laws of physics except gravity)

[barren oar]

great ragebait btw ill keep biting

how much are the table coral, prior to being knifed, affected by gravity

[errant cairn]

Use stat rifle on them then watch as they either phase through the floor or go crazy around the area

After the stasis ends

[barren oar]

yes, which should not happen, but it does anyway because the stasis rifle is shit

[errant cairn]

Considering its my main way of getting things in dangerous biomes.....

Yes I probably should use the repulsion cannon I just keep forgetting to shove it in my inventory

[barren oar]

you have limbs

[errant cairn]

That doesn't stop a bus sized predator from dealing 70+ damage to me

[barren oar]

it does if it can't land a hit

[errant cairn]

Unless I have SSG active or a Stat rifle or Rep cannon

[errant cairn]

Are you suggesting small rock?

[barren oar]

im suggesting you just move out of the way

[errant cairn]

And I still need a seaglide for that. Base one works

[barren oar]

the only creature you can't maneuver around with just a standard seaglide is the ghost leviathan

[errant cairn]

(which who doesn't have a seaglide at all times once they get it the first time?)

[barren oar]

crab squid is kind of annoying because it can emp the glide but take it out of your hands right before contact or just always be diagonal from the squid

[errant cairn]

Yeah you need a better one

[barren oar]

upgraded does jack shit to change that sentence

[errant cairn]

Yeah Lucky i encounter those only like 5 times in my play through while swimming

[errant cairn]

fair. ✨ repulsion cannon ✨

[barren oar]

repulsion cannon does jack shit to change that sentence

[errant cairn]

if rep cannon doesn't stun them i will be shocked

[errant cairn]

does it not stun them like it stuns the reapers?

[barren oar]

also it eats through batteries like no tomorrow

3 shots and its depleted

not worth using

[errant cairn]

no?

Not 3 shots

like....10 or 15

also just shove a better batery in it

C2C is great for that

[barren oar]

too expensive to be worth making more than 2 of

[errant cairn]

1. how
2. you can decraft it if you need to
3. it makes a lot of tools not god awful (except the flashlight its still not useful because Seaglide)

[barren oar]

i dont think it changes the flashlight at all actually

not like you could do anything with it

[errant cairn]

(oh and pathfinder tool)

real

[faint summit]

I ended up having to drag the seamoth back to the moon pool with the propulsion cannon, removing the modules, destroying it, and making a new one.

[errant cairn]

oh

[faint summit]

I'm pretty sure the seamoth was eternally in a 'land' state and just couldn't move.

[errant cairn]

hm

[faint summit]

What caused this is that every time I went to the portal to the thermal plant it would phase through the floor while the area was loading in.

And I had left it parked inside of the thermal plant for obvious reasons.

[trail ether]

you can solve this by pushing it through a medium interface

such as the water surface

[errant cairn]

I'm going to guess yes because the same thing happens with Table Coral which looks like what ||Geyser Coyal|| clone

Although you do remove some component that lets you stab the coral so idk

What should i do? I can't scan the last 2 I need to complete the bp needed to start making plasteel

[faint summit]

That did not rectify it.

It was just completely innert.

Though it wasn't in a complete land state as it would float in water.

It just could not move on its own.

[faint summit]

@trail ether That special feature of the ion power cells, do you need to have them in every power cell slot to take effect or does it just effect the seamoth?

I had one in my prawn suit and it wasn't doing anything, beyond providing more power.

[worldly valve]

Probably needs them all

Prawn only uaes 2 so its an easy test

Tho i recall not needing them all on my original playthrough way back when

But thats super old data

[trail plinth]

Stasis rifle is extremely janky yeah, it really fucks with a lot of wrecks and their components

[wispy kelp]

@trail ether what should i do since im unable to play legacy subnautica now

[trail ether]

no it arises from the placement logic

[errant cairn]

Either way what should I do?

I can't get the bp without those two

[errant cairn]

wait

or just ignore this mod until SN2 drops

becaue I just don't see Reika finishing C2C 2.0 before then.

[faint summit]

Lmao, the ||security nodes||, my ape brain came in handy for once on how to deal with them.

[wispy kelp]

Guh...

[errant cairn]

I shouldn't just use unlock right?
If I should, whats the TechType for it?

[faint summit]

Man, finally having the hardware to properly explore the ILZ without constantly being on the edge of becoming charcoal is so fulfilling.

[errant cairn]

can't wait until i get there...

[faint summit]

It's by far the most inhospitable biome in the game. Feels like most of my playtime was spent just getting to the point where I could survive here.

[errant cairn]

pov: me when i try to get to lr (i think my special o2 tank that requires 3 other things to function doesn't exist)

(idk i'd have to go back to the purple kelp biome again)

also @trail ether Why do you dislike the F1 menu being open while playing? What tabs does it have that I forgot about? (i only look at the cords and the biome. im too lazy to find it here)

[trail ether]

most effecctive way: delete them from the world and from the worldgen cache, so they regenerate

[errant cairn]

tysm, but how can I tell which ones that I need to delete?

[trail ether]

by coordinate

[errant cairn]

fair

[faint summit]

Healthy tip, if you're going to the ILZ, for the love of god get the vehicle repair module for the cyclops.

@trail ether I think there may be a bug with the "new mechanic" in the ILZ.

The ones I've already destroyed seem to be regenerating.

[trail ether]

that will not affect progression but that definitely needs to be fixed for visual telegraphing

that said i would avoid messing with them until i push a fix

it will be an hour or so

[faint summit]

Uh, well it's a bit late for that.

The pda was saying that they were still counting towards the total.

[trail ether]

they would yes

[faint summit]

I didn't really notice until I had looped the entire lava castle chamber at least once.

[trail ether]

there is still a way to clean up

though

that is not strictly necessary if you do a cleanup pass ingame afterwards

ie go around and do them all again, once fixed

that will ensure the progression is conisstent

[errant cairn]

If the amount of progression flags were measured in the amount of hate Reika has for me, I'd say it's 2
-# (x10^12)
boatloads

[trail ether]

fixes released

@faint summit ^

[faint summit]

Got it

[faint summit]

Thenk u

[lyric nacelle]

When C2C updates is there a quicker way to update other than downloading zips from the github page? Or am I doing it the correct way?

[errant cairn]

No, and Yes

I'm going to work on something to change that though

[lyric nacelle]

I have got the process down pretty quickly now so not a problem. Just didn't know if that was the intentional way to update.

[errant salmon]

Will you still have to pay for c2c when it releases for the 25 version

[worldly valve]

Still have to pay?

Have you been paying someone money for the mod?

[errant salmon]

i thought you had to pay money for it so thats why i never thought about installing it

[worldly valve]

The mod be free

[errant salmon]

ah

still will wait for 25 version tho

[faint summit]

@trail ether I have unfortunate news.

That fix did not work.

At least for me.

I break a node, go the other side of the lava castle chamber, come back, and it has regenerated.

[trail ether]

???????

[trail ether]

wtf I tested it

and not just like that but a full save reload

oh

that is why

save

well you have just found a huge hole in my serialization system

this goes WAY deeper than these objects

i am not sure i can fix this

though for the nodes i can make a workaround

split the prefab into two, and swap it out on...the event

but for other objects...i have no fix

[faint summit]

Also it says 19/19, did you add another one?

[trail ether]

this might explain some of the issues people have reported over the years with resetting plant growth for a few plants, resetting "scanned" state for things like tree colonies...

[trail ether]

yes

[faint summit]

Ok, just wanted to make sure.

I still don't actually know what the mechanic unlocks, but I can hazard a guess.

[trail ether]

it is not exactly one that would be surprising

it is also fully "transparent"

ie if you have completed the condition there will be no evidence the condition even exists at the time it would otherwise block you

i fully expect that in the majority of cases the player will not have pre-emptively completed it as you did

[errant cairn]

It will be after SN2

[errant salmon]

Ok nice

And my cat already predicted sn2 to release in march or may

[errant cairn]

Reika told us not to expect it until 2026 at the bear minimum iirc

[errant salmon]

Alright

[trail ether]

the earliest i will consider working on an update is around easter 2026

I am not spending my fall and christmas on it

and early winter is going to be dedicated to factorio

maybe hopefully redoing all my mods for SA

which i need to redo from scratch (minus lib functions) because so so much has changed, and a lot of features are no longer valid conceptually

EgC needs a complete rework of its turret balancing and application, with a lot being outright removed (eg turret range), orbital everything needs t4o be completely redone, NVDay needs tons of custom work for the other planets, if such a thing is even a thing, et cetera

[faint summit]

HELP they're building a tower

They seek to escape the depths

[errant cairn]

Oh hell yes

I'll play them 🙋‍♂️

Once they drop on SA ofc

I don't have the SA DLC though..

[errant cairn]

also I said 2026 I didn't specify what date

I still think we'll get SN2 EA before C2C 2.0

Which might forever kill it depending on the state of SN2

[unreal flame]

nah, sn2 won't kill sn1 modding, regardless of how fantastic it ends up being

especially since this is just an EA release

[forest valve]

sn2 wont kill sn1 modding period, how the fuck do people still believe this

what the hell is thel logic behind it lowkey

if you want rota, it wont just explode into nothingness, its still there

this will only make a dent and ill bet itll make it more popular as people will come back to subnautica and be like "woah alot has changed in modding"

[errant cairn]

I didn't say modding. I said C2C, but who knows

[forest valve]

c2c is one of the last things sn2 would kill??!

[errant cairn]

probably tbh

But I guess I'm the exception

I'll be getting it when it first drops

[manic relic]

c2c got updated ?

[errant cairn]

Nope

[errant cairn]

@trail ether are all of your mods going to be for SA or base game?

[manic relic]

It says that I got v126 but I need v127.

[barren oar]

so download it

[sterile cobalt]

c2c 2025 yet?

[trail ether]

SA

i might not make them actually require SA to run

but they will be designed and balanced against SA

[errant cairn]

Ah okay

So I can still play them without buying a $35 DLC...nice

[trail ether]

and those which cannot be made to work in the new environment - such as EE and RubberBelts - will be discontinued entirely

[errant cairn]

The problem isnt the money its convincing my dad to let me buy the thing 😭

[trail ether]

RadioNetwork, FastFurnaces, and ChokePoint are also going to be discontinued

[errant cairn]

Don't know what EE (besides Equivalent Exchange mod for SN) or RubberBelts are so sadge

[trail ether]

and several mods, notably TreePlant and DirtyMining, may also be, or at the very least will be unrecognizable

[trail ether]

it is well worth it

SA has some questionable singular blaancing/progression points yes

[errant cairn]

Reika

[trail ether]

but this is still the first release

[faint summit]

@trail ether Is there supposed to be a way to get up there?

[trail ether]

yes

i would imagine you know of it

[barren oar]

holy shit prawn parkour usage?

absolute peak

[trail ether]

no

fuck that

[barren oar]

:(

-# :)))

[faint summit]

The solution is nice to find, nothing complicated.

I initially thought it was the grappling hook but then remembered that it does next to nothing outside of water.

And at the end of my long journey, the seamoth explodes in the ILZ, a fitting end.

I certainly hope I have all the materials needed for the rocket, cause I can't go back to the void spikes now.

Oh, it didn't explode, it just phased through the floor below the Containment facility.

Outstanding

[faint summit]

Wahooo, my survery status is complete.

And the only thing missing is the rocket launch blueprint and captain's log.

[faint summit]

OH damn, the solution to getting the Captain's door open is so funny.

[trail plinth]

I actually figured it out largely by accident, still really good though

[faint summit]

I expected what I tried to fail, then I would have to actually think about how to get the door open but nope.

Also I actually figured out what the tongue lillies need to accumulate resources and in my defense, there was a very valid reason why I didn't see it earlier.

I had tongue lillies planted at my base, close to the entrance hatch, but they were just out of range of the [substance] apparently so I never thought that was the solution.

[worldly valve]

Oh and here i thought you may have made a base without thebstuff before finding lillies

[faint summit]

Nah, they were in the cloud visually, but they just weren't close enough.

So sad too, I only figured it out at the very end.

[worldly valve]

I was so very confused when you said you hadnt done them😂

[faint summit]

Of course, all of this will serve me well on the second playthrough.

[worldly valve]

It was everyones barrier🥲

For anlong time

[faint summit]

So I've heard.

But I've also heard that it was bugged.

Inititally

[worldly valve]

By reika word, it had a collision problem

[faint summit]

Ah

[worldly valve]

I believe she argurd it wasnt a bug

[faint summit]

Well I imagine she gets a lot of complaints and reports that are just people misunderstanding something.

[worldly valve]

But im like 90% sure in muted from reikas view hahahah

[faint summit]

The mod isn't easy after all.

[worldly valve]

The data points were hard to collect

I talked with a lot of players

Reika and i beliebe 1 other had gotten it to work, whi h added to the confusion

[faint summit]

Very true, and the amount of people who have made it through to the end are probably in the double digits.

[worldly valve]

I havent since an early patch

Tho moral change really harmed my last file

[faint summit]

Yeah I remember the morale bugs.

[worldly valve]

It might be better now but id still have problems

See i throw out alnost all the extra swag

Because uhh...tbh even irl i dont value looks very much at all

Probably my most male trait🥲

[faint summit]

Lmao

Also apparently my baseline morale is so high that swimming in the crash zone doesn't bring it down

[worldly valve]

I had this vision that id have to make a base in every biome just to be the happy pod

But it sounds like its not quite so bad

Really i find decoratung stressful🥲🤣🤣🤣

I get anxious thinking about it

[faint summit]

Time to go farm platinum again

[errant cairn]

lmao real

i know that feeling

back to my lab 😭

[trail plinth]

The tonguelillies? I think I mentioned in here before that I got them to work. Unless there is a collider issue going on, you're either seeing ||phytoplankton spawning out of range because any phytoplankton that had spawned in range were consumed||, or ||the tonguelillies aren't in very good spots/some other mechanic||. I've got them ||in planters spread around my base, near entrances but also just to encompass most of the space my base takes up anyway|| and the only clusters that tend to spawn are ||a fair but underneath my moonpool||

[faint summit]

Well it's for a rocket component, so hopefully it's the last time

[trail ether]

why is this channel perpetually claiming to be unread for me

[errant cairn]

negative clue (probably because discord is being dicord)

[faint summit]

I never have that issue so no clue.

[worldly valve]

My posts were in reference to the past when it had an issue

[worldly valve]

All waa remedied awhile back

Pre morale

[faint summit]

Has anyone else been unable to load the mod? Auroraresource updated yesterday but sea to sea did not and now neither mod will load on startup.

[barren oar]

c2c's latest commit being 14 hours ago implies it should've

actually every mod should be updated

er. except exscan and reef

[faint summit]

Thenk

Qmod only mentioned auroraresource being updated at the time.

[faint summit]

lmao

[manic relic]

Why does S2S always crash every time I add Socknautica or Return of the Ancients Legacy? How do I fix that?

[faint summit]

You don't, they're not compatible.

Well,|| lumafish|| can't breed in captivity, so I guess we're going back to the ||void spikes||, one last time.

[trail plinth]

What makes you say that? Also, may want to spoiler both of those names

[faint summit]

What makes me say that is that they don't reproduce even in the proper biome, unless that was a recent fix.

[trail plinth]

Are there enough plants/plant variety for them? Also which biome is it emulating?

[faint summit]

Blood Kelp Trench, Reika said that was the placeholder biome for them.

[trail plinth]

Hm, do you have an acu terminal on it that you can check for issues?

[faint summit]

There were no issues.

[trail plinth]

Which plants are you using?

[faint summit]

Blood vine and gabe's feather.

Mind you this was two weeks ago.

I really should try again.

It's just I'm literally on the last stages of the rocket so not sure if there's much of a point.

o7

Goodbye Arcturus, go be with your friends

[trail ether]

I fixed that

but it will not retroactively apply to pre-existing ones

[faint summit]

Oh, so that's why.

[trail ether]

also I just pushed a hotfix finishing the feature recently added to C2C

so if you updated an hour ago you need to update again

[faint summit]

I didn't, but I will now.

I don't believe that I'll see it as I'm about to leave this wonderous planet. But there's always next time.

[trail ether]

you can fix them with runtime editor

take them into your inventory and delete the WaterParkCreature component on them

that will force a regeneration of all ACU params when re-inserted

including, crucially, timeUntilNextBreed

[faint summit]

I'm taking only what matters most.

Bertrum and Leo

[errant cairn]

Fair

[trail ether]

did you finish building the rocket

because your messages say you are still doing it yet the pictyure shows it being done

that and it seems like it is going too fast

[faint summit]

Too Fast? I put the cockpit on it. that's the only thing I posted. @trail ether

Of course now there's other things to deal with.

: )

It sure didn't feel like it was going too fast when I had to go back down into the ILZ to farm more azurite and obsidian.

[trail ether]

when did you build thr rest

[faint summit]

I built the fuel reserves and the cockpit today.

Oh, you mean the launch pad.

Pretty sure it was yesterday, along with the thrusters.

Please do not make the ingredient list for the rocket components any larger

I thought I was going to get to leave today, but that will have to wait until the weekend it seems.

You know why

[trail ether]

https://i.imgur.com/FEL21zT.png

[trail ether]

including the new...raw material?

[sterile cobalt]

Those are some pretty interesting jellyray variants, I kinda wished they were in 2.0/2025 patch.

[faint summit]

@trail ether My play session yesterday was like 4 hours long, so if that update was during the later hours of the day then I probably built it before it was added. Whatever IT is.

I don't see anything "new", much less a raw material.

The recipe now is the same as when I built it.

[trail ether]

ok

[trail ether]

hint: orange

[faint summit]

Orange

I think I know what you mean but I don't think that is part of the recipe for me. Unless qmod is just not telling me there was another commit again.

Is it spicy?

Yeah I'm on v150, there is nothing orange that I can see in the recipe.

@trail ether

Wasn't the orange material used for the ||hatching enzymes||?

Is that what you're thinking of?

[trail ether]

yes

which is in turn, eventually, used for the rocket

[faint summit]

Ooooh, that's what you mean.

The wall.

Of the tank

That was a terrible way to disguise that item but if that's what you mean then yes.

[trail ether]

that feature is almost brand new so it almost seemed like you just managed to outrun it

[faint summit]

No unfortunately.

I did not.

Thanks for that.

I made about 6 total enzymes before leaving because I had a feeling I would need them.

That and ||all of the materials have to be on site to|| make them so it would have just been lazy to not make extra.

Oh, should I spoiler that.

Better safe than sorry.

[trail ether]

this too

[faint summit]

I got there just in time to have to collect our new globular friends : )

[sterile cobalt]

When are we getting C2C for the 2025 patch aka 2.0?

[worldly valve]

Eventually a long ways away

Not anytime soon

[faint summit]

Does anyone know where to find shuttlebug eggs?

Of all the things I can't seem to find one.

WHY does my lumenshroom oil keep disappearing?

I know I had more than that.

[faint summit]

GET OUT

No vacancy.

[barren oar]

yeah it just kinda does that

dont worry about it and make the 732nd trip to the dunes

[barren oar]

i think just throughout the safe shallows?

i dont remember seeing them anywhere else, at least

[manic relic]

What are the coordinates of void islands?

[errant cairn]

Fall 2026 or Spring 2027

[errant cairn]

Just do the thing to get the signal for it

[manic relic]

what thing ?

i'm a new to the mod

[barren oar]

you'll get there organically eventually

won't need to visit them in the early game

[barren oar]

also where did you pull those from lol

reika's said she hasn't started work on the port yet and that she won't until 2026 at the earliest, as well as the port likely taking a long time because of how different 2.0 is from legacy

[errant cairn]

Probably un realistic but it was based on the start of development

Maybe fall 2027 long after SN2 enters EA

For certain Fall 2028

[barren oar]

i see

[faint summit]

Well, the run is finished, I'm kind of at a loss for words.

[barren oar]

gg!

[faint summit]

I thought something else would come up that I needed to do mid launch or something lmao.

Hard to believe that it's over.

@trail ether I'd like to personally thank you for cultivating what has been the most enjoyable subnautica experience to date. All of the hardships, fear, terror and joy pale in comparison to the almost melancholy feeling I have finishing the run. This mod has captivated me in a way that few other things have in a mod or otherwise. You breathed new life into this game of already unparalleled beauty and discovery and I cannot understate how much I look forward to the mod's future.

Also thanks to all of the people here, it's been quite the playthrough.

[river finch]

So out of curiosity when do we think this will get updated? Some time in 2026?

And also , def not the right place to ask but i will anyways, anbody heard any updates on fcs 2.0? Because unlike sea to sea ive heard nothin on whether thats even being worked on now?

[worldly valve]

I mean if you read uo juuust a little

Youd see some discussioj on that

No real official date for it

[faint summit]

2026 is when Reika (creator) said they will start seriously work on porting the mod to 2.0. As for FCS, they had a beta in their patreon for the 2023 version of the game, haven't heard much else.

[worldly valve]

2026 at the earliest, and even that is kind of an assumption

[river finch]

Ah right. Well mb i guess. Looking forward to it though

[river finch]

Yeah i know fcs has a patreon beta but the longer we wait for it though the more i worry it will be just a patreon thing

Maybe end of 2026 for sea to sea port then? That would be awesome

[faint summit]

Well the harsh reality is that the legacy builds going down hasn't really helped things.

And they were already kind of silent on FCS development before then.

[river finch]

I know

Im kinda worried about that

Not even a "hey were still working to ipdate this so non patrons can play it"

At least we know this and rota are still at work despite both being relarively quiet teaser wose

[vocal crane]

yo

havent played in a few months

hows the progress on this mod?

[vocal crane]

thats

insane bro

good job

if im running updated mods if they are updated)

do i need to make a new world

im bout to play a world made a while ago

[vocal crane]

?

oh wait

theres no longer any legacy?

@barren oar is there any workaround for this?

[barren oar]

not sure why i was pinged specifically, but there should be a guide in #❓┃help-and-support

that said, i dont think its pinned anymore so you'll have to use discord's search function

[vocal crane]

because ur a active guy😉

alr

ty

[barren oar]

???

[faint summit]

You're an active guy now.

I'm so proud.

[faint summit]

Oh my god, the current version of subnautica is so smooth.

I had forgotten how well it ran.

[trail ether]

C2C is not a "teleport around to see cool shit" mod

[trail ether]

🙂

[manic relic]

Yeah I know but I want to see the Void Spikes biome first then start a survival game because there is no way in hell that I'm surviving the void in survival mode

🙂

[vocal crane]

yep

[faint summit]

Oh hell no, I turned around to repair the ship and this thing was just there.

He's pretty chill though.

[errant cairn]

I'm not sure if that smile is hiding pain or not, but I wont take implications from it

[errant cairn]

https://tenor.com/view/just-a-chill-guy-chill-chill-guy-guy-meme-benjammins-gif-7750595497627305958

Lowkey tho why was this meme popular

[trail ether]

the hell is that

[faint summit]

Ancient Bloop @trail ether

From Sockfauna

Normally it is in the void, in the sockfauna mod for the 2025 build there are two patrolling the sparse reef apparently.

The perspective is decieving, it is larger than a reaper.

It's supposed to be the genetic ancestor of this goober.

[trail ether]

it always bothers me how seemingly these youtube bait mods have all the asset pipelines necessary to perfectly mimic vanilla - PDA images, PDA voice, etc - yet no good mod has managed to do so

[unreal flame]

there's a grand total of like, three youtubeslop creature mods

anyway you can probably ask for the ency image files

the PDA voice is because Anthomnia has Simon Chylinski on speed dial

[faint summit]

My son

OH

Another beby

[trail ether]

it is not a simple matter of having "some image files" - extracting those from the game data is trivial

it is being able to make the rest of it

[unreal flame]

elaborate?

[trail ether]

getting the creature rendered in a way that fits, getting the various "focus" spots like the vanilla creatures have, et cetera

[vocal crane]

are u playing the newest version of subnauitca rn?

[forest valve]

it seems so yes

not seatosea tho

obviously

[vocal crane]

yeah i see

[vocal crane]

if i played on a world with c2c quite a while ago, do i need to make a new world if im updating the mods?

[faint summit]

There are a lot of new features so if it was months ago, it would be advisable to make another world.

[unreal flame]

Most likely

[vocal crane]

dang

gonna be a pain getting the seamoth again

but gtnh made me ready

[faint summit]

If the farthest you got was the seamoth then you're fine, even if it is a fairly big early game milestone.

Fine to restart I mean.

[vocal crane]

yeah to i saw how to get to legacy again was kinda a hassle

also

is the performance in c2c better now?

i remember i was always on 50 to 30 fps

@faint summit

[faint summit]

I'll admit, my framerate was pretty bad in the late game, not sure why. I think it may have been related to a mod I was forced to remove halfway through.

That being said, a few people have mentioned spiraling framerates in the later half of the mod.

[vocal crane]

both c2c and uhh fcs is very heavy on framerate i think

also do u know what happened to fcs?

i cant access their website no more

[faint summit]

Nothing that couldn't be played through, but some certain biomes were pretty bad on my frames.

FCS for legacy can be download through a megaupload link somewhere on this discord (not this channel).

You'll have to search for it.

The FCS site has been down for months.

[vocal crane]

dang yeah since i havent played in quite a while

think of making a small modpack for a new playthrough

not sure yet what to actually play tho

legacy with c2c and fcs or modern subnautica with rota and some other mods idk

when c2c will be ported to modern it will be crazy

think im gonna start with rota then maybe later if i still wanna play subnautica ima head to c2c

just not so sure

i tend to overthink what to actually play

cant ever decide

[faint summit]

If you are indecisive then start with the RotA playthrough first. C2C is not a short endeavor.

The total playtime for my playthough I completed recently was 8 days.

That's in-game time, not the time completed.

[vocal crane]

yeah i know ive played some other mods for example in minecraft making everything more hard adding microcrafting, etc just extra stuff plus technology. tho i love how c2c adds so much cool stuff like meteors. no mod creator besides reika can make that happen!

tho id love putting alot of time in one world

[trail ether]

160 hours makes me very proud considering most AAA open-world story games are 40-80 hours

I spent 83h in HZD my first time, doing everything

[faint summit]

I'm assuming that's Horizon Zero Dawn. Never actually seen any gameplay of it. As for the C2C playthrough, it was worth every hour. It's been a while since a game kept pulling me in like this.

[sterile cobalt]

It’s sad that legacy is gone…

[vocal crane]

still ur able to get to legacy, its just a hassle and "not reccomended"

tho when or if this is getting ported

ima get right on this mod again

[sterile cobalt]

Same.

[trail ether]

yes, and i strongly advise against spoilers

it is a heavily narrative-driven game, as well as having many instances of the same "first look at the vista" that SN and other exploration games are built on, and which I try to make use of in C2C

[faint summit]

Will do, it's on the endless backlog of games to try.

[vocal crane]

😔

[errant cairn]

Definitely before Fall 2029. 2.0 development starts Spring, Summer, or Fall 2026 I think

[trail ether]

it should say a lot that i loved it, when it is so hard for a game to appeal to me, especially AAA-style games

[tiny wagon]

did you ever find a fix

I tried constructing another above mine but it refuses to construct

[faint summit]

Yeah that odd acu deconstruction bug happened to me as well.

Wish I could say exactly when but the acu is something you set up and leave running so it's hard to notice if anything odd is happening with them.

[faint summit]

@trail ether I miss your ACU changes already, the ACU feels so sterile without them.

😭

[trail ether]

XD

[errant cairn]

Please bring the ACU changes to 2.0 first

You'll get a little bit of credit for it alone

And of course more haters?

[worldly valve]

Eh even i like a large chunk of the acu aesthetic stuff

..not that i use it much but

[errant cairn]

yeah but still

its super nice

[trail ether]

siiiiiigh https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLroyJguKoWDjVZVa9lps3oaGAfoQ3GrdS

[trail plinth]

oh they're literally just cheating after a certain point, ok

'practice run' and instead of learning the mechanics or figuring things out, they just ignore all the challenges and teleport to every poi, completely ignoring the requirements and prerequisites that make getting to those pois challenging and interesting

[unreal flame]

Not worth getting worked up over with that viewcount tbh

[karmic drum]

It's the matter of principle honestly

[trail plinth]

I think the overall concern (at least for me) would be that they're showcasing it as a playthrough of c2c, but cheating their way through all the progression just to look at the new stuff, and even with a low view count those are still people who could have otherwise had a better experience of the modpack if htere wasn't cheating

[trail ether]

thjey even cheat the vanilla - turning on infinite oxygen, no damage, etc

[tiny wagon]

Should I try and make a c2c run

recorded

I notice a significant lack of content regarding this mod and I’ve had a whale of a time so far

Is there a “docked bay vehicle storage access” equivalent in the mod? I wanna see if I’m able to just install the mod to fit the niche

And is the storage increase also applicable to sortingstoragelockers?

[tiny wagon]

Ew

Unlimited game but no game

[errant cairn]

I'm pretty sure a legacy version does exist.

[trail ether]

that is a thing in vanilla

https://i.imgur.com/uNYTN1h.jpeg

not my image

[karmic drum]

I knew I could do that at the cyclops bay. But I've never checked if I could do it at the moon pool...

I just run between my different containers and suffer

[tiny wagon]

Oh my I’m foolish

I think I remember using a modded locker or something to access it

[barren oar]

moon pool definitely doesnt have it since the

..sent too early

since the moonpool control panel only has color & name customisation

ignoring the fabricator that comes with it of course

i guess this can be thought of as a qol that the cyclops offers, but unfortunately too late

[errant cairn]

Why? Is there not a mod for legacy that has it? I know theres one for 2.0

[barren oar]

idk if there is i was thinking within the context of pure c2c and vanilla since reika proposed it as a solution

[errant cairn]

fair

[tiny wagon]

https://www.nexusmods.com/subnautica/mods/42?tab=files

Has legacy

[errant cairn]

thought so

[tiny wagon]

also seems that uhh

autosort has one of those

[errant cairn]

oh pog

[dusky imp]

This mod is still legacy??

[trail plinth]

ye

[forest valve]

yea its a really big mod bro dont expect it to come to 2025 update anytime soon

the earliest reika would even consider updating it is in like 2026

[trail ether]

he literally joined the server today

[dusky imp]

I has been in subnautica modding since like 2022

This is my third account after my second one got hacked

[upper dock]

so uh, it would appear discord fucked up majorly and deleted every single pinned message in every server. if you were using those for anything important in here they're gone now

hopefully they still have them stored and can somehow restore them

[errant cairn]

For you

I still see them

[upper dock]

Seems to have just come back for me as well

other people in other servers were getting the issue too

[errant cairn]

hm

[upper dock]

guess it was a weird very localized outage

[karmic drum]

Likely an API error

[wheat pebble]

I can think of big mods that are on 2.0 like the red plague and prototype expansion

but i guess those are newer mods and red plague is unfinished

[barren oar]

i think that in trp's case (and possibly in proto's as well, though i am unsure) it's a mod that started development in 2.0, whereas c2c has many systems that rely on how the game worked in legacy which can't be ported over directly to 2.0

(as well as generally requiring a lot of work to bring the mod to the nautilus standard, rather than SML)

[trail ether]

i am still afraid of undocumented prefab changes in 2.0

like internal GO structure

the kind of thing that breaks code like this
https://github.com/ReikaKalseki/SeaToSea/blob/main/Objects/Campfire.cs#L101-L103
https://github.com/ReikaKalseki/AqueousEngineering/blob/main/Machines/SeabaseBattery.cs#L43
https://github.com/ReikaKalseki/AqueousEngineering/blob/main/Machines/ItemDisplay.cs#L81

[barren oar]

since you're using it immediately after, you're going to get an exception on prefab first use anyway

so it's a much more "friendly" change than moving to async or how you'd need to port over to nautilus' method of patching in new prefabs/building off vanilla prefabs

this is really one of the things you shouldn't be worried about, all things considered haha

[trail ether]

i am not talking about the sync/async

I am talking about stuff like if a GO no longer has those child objects

[barren oar]

Yes

it'd be an immediate null ref exception if it doesn't have it any more

and the prefab won't load in

[trail ether]

yes exactly

that is what i am afraid of

that i need to adapt hundreds of similar places like this

or worse, that stuff will silently break and it will go unnoticed for years

something for which I have precedent

[barren oar]

thats what im saying its not going to be silent

which is why i view it as much nicer than other potential porting issues

you'll have traces of it either in the log or in noticing that Hey this buildable just Doesn't Appear what's going on

that said, I can't say i can see a reason they'd modify prefabs, either really

er. they'd have* modified prefabs

[trail ether]

maybe i just have MCPTSD

because they change the most random shit every single update, even stuff that is not at all mentioned in changelogs, even in ways that do not actually change anything behaviorally but necessitate meticulous error checking, debugging, and busywork-fixing

[barren oar]

I can't say I've heard horror stories of this calibre in modern times, but I'll take your word for it for the ancient 1.7 era since I've never properly interacted with the modding scene for that period

still though, if something is removed that you're trying to access, surely the mod just would not compile or it would throw a null ref exception also?

[trail ether]

often times the error only arises during gameplay, such as when a given TE's tick behavior is invoked, or even more specific than that

also sure lots of errors are compile failures

it is still incredibly unpleasant when there are 7100 of them

[barren oar]

good point

[trail ether]

when I went from 1.6 to 1.7 I had about 30000 errors to fix

about half of those were just because they changed how block and item IDs worked

and that predates ChromatiCraft, which is the largest mod by a factor of three

[trail ether]

1.7 to 1.8 would probably be well over a million

not only did they redo the entire render engine, making all my rendering code invalid, but they changed every single world function that takes a xyz

[barren oar]

did BlockPos not exist back then and it was just passing raw coordinates everywhere?

i think the changes were overall healthy (im sure you can agree numerical IDs suck for one) but yeah i can see how they'd be difficult to handle given large enough mods

if not at least time consuming

[trail ether]

yes

[barren oar]

Awful

[trail ether]

better

not only better for performance but also far easier to do things like incremental operations

like a machine with an AoE on the block grid

[barren oar]

modern manages with no real issue since you're going to be boxing all the time because of primitives and how they just suck

in java

i will say im a fan of reducing parameter count too and removing two for fairly cheap is really nice

i assume the types changing isnt really relevant since I'd think minecraft still uses ints for block pos

2bil blocks in either direction is a lot, after all

[trail ether]

uh...calling a method that takes a primitive does not box

primitives and full objects are very different on the stack

[trail ether]

wtf?

[barren oar]

no, but throwing them into an array, list or map does right?

[barren oar]

hm?

[trail ether]

yes, but how is that relevant here

[trail ether]

"i like removing parameters"

what kind of logic is that

[barren oar]

because that's a very common usage? keeping track of many of them at once?

[barren oar]

reducing the count

[trail ether]

that is a very rare usage

[barren oar]

i dont want to call a function with 7 parameters repeatedly for instance

[trail ether]

few use cases benefit from caching coordinates

[barren oar]

would you not actually want to cache coordinates as much as possible because world lookups are slow?

[trail ether]

the overwhelming majority of usage is just passing them on to other functions, often with some increment

[trail ether]

....

one, world lookups are actually very fast

provided you do not need to load the chunk anew

[barren oar]

i see

i thought it was slow, my bad on that front

[trail ether]

two, how would caching the xyz save you anything

three, even if you cached the result, that result is not valid

because the world can and constantly does change

pretty much any time you cache anything about the world the first thing you need to do when using that cached value is checking that it is still true

eliminating any speed benefit

[barren oar]

cant you just like check if the object you have a reference to still exists?

like the uh

the TileEntity i mean

[trail ether]

most objects are not safe to cache directly like that

TEs chief among them

[barren oar]

i see

[trail ether]

even WeakReference<TileEntity> is risky

[barren oar]

why is it so, however?

[trail ether]

MC constantly destroys and recreates TEs and the like as needed

[barren oar]

ah

cant say ive heard of that before, myself

[trail ether]

as it happens my machines do cache their neighbors, but not the TEs

[barren oar]

only if like the chunk is unloaded or whatever

[trail ether]

they cache a kind of "marker" of the neighbor

and even that is only possible because for neighbors changing that causes a block update

so my block gets notified

the actual performance savings on this is not even significant

[barren oar]

mhm

[trail ether]

and calling it with five when you have to replace x, y+1, z with new BlockPos(bp.x, bp.y+1, bp.z) is better?

parameter count is of zero importance

[barren oar]

you can just construct the position beforehand

[trail ether]

total length, and more specifically typing complexity, is what matters

[barren oar]

and have a much smaller line length for calling lol

[trail ether]

you have still doubled the amount of typing necessary

and introduced a lot of possibility for a copy-paste error if you are doing things across multiple coorrdinates

[barren oar]

and also separate coordinates requires loading more parameters but this isnt an era where this really matters anyway

[trail ether]

calling function A on the block above, function B on the block below, and function C on the four horizontal neighbors

and then oops you pass the wrong blockpos to one

at least with x+1, etc, the error is very obvious

[trail ether]

and the conseqeunces of that can include permanently corrupting the world

[barren oar]

also i would like to mention BlockPos.above(), .below(), .north() exist (see https://lexxie.dev/forge/1.20.1/net/minecraft/core/BlockPos.html)

[trail ether]

I can name a dozen causes of such corruption caused by, ultimately, passing in the wrong coordinate to a function

[barren oar]

if you're looking for neighbours in particular

[trail ether]

which results in semantically invalid operations at that coordinate

an early (in 1.7) example was TC tainted nodes

the world-eating logic sometimes did the equivalent of getBlock(x1, y1, z1).doFunction(x2, y2, z2)

for blocks with nontrivial logic that can seriously corrupt them

for example ones who use those parameters to perform a TE lookup on that coordinate, to know what the value to return is

for a simple example, a TE-controlled light level

another more serious example was glenn's gases, incrementing the metadatas of the wrong coordinates

rather than its own fluid blocks, it accidentally incremented the metadata of some things it touched

for vanilla blocks that rarely matters

meta 1 stone is identical to meta 0

but then you have a machine where the ID-metadata pair determines which TE class it is...

[barren oar]

or stuff like wool right

[trail ether]

that has visual impact but is still largely harmless

[barren oar]

was that also meta-based rather than seperate ids like it is today

[trail ether]

yes it was

[barren oar]

ye

[trail ether]

but wool is a rare block to see use

and even if it changes nothing crashes

[barren oar]

that is true too its awful for anything

[trail ether]

not like you have a - example - woodcutter that just got morphed into the ID-meta pair of a pile driver, but the TE is still that of a woodcutter...

cue immediate ClassCastException as soon as the block is queried about anything

have you ever had "classical" ID corruption in modded MC

where modded blocks get randomly converted to other blocks

eg trees with trunks of TiC smeltery and leaves of IC2 wires, the ground dotted with flowers of TC arcane alembics

think that

[barren oar]

no i cant say i have

that happens if you play around with loaded mods in a save, last i recall?

as in literally "mod X now takes id Y that was previously of mod Z"

[trail ether]

no that happens when the ID map gets scrambled, or a chunk loses the more significant ID bits

forge repurposes the unused 16 bits in the metadata int in the chunk data for an extra 16 bits of ID space

sometimes this gets lost

as it is not part of vanilla data, it is not saved through the vanilla systems, and thus the two can decouple

as such every ID saves with a value equal to itself with those four bits zeroed

so small IDs are unaffected but higher ones collide

[barren oar]

hm? how can a chunk reasonably store an extra 16 values that would help in any fashion

[trail ether]

id and metadata are both ints internally

in the chunk data

a chunk is just a glorified pair of int[][][]

[barren oar]

you regularly have more than 16 blocks in a chunk so its definitely not unique block count... not that that would help any, anyway

[trail ether]

but since metadata is never more than 15, the upper 16 bits are unused

they are always zero

[barren oar]

oh 16

yeah that sounds somewhat more reasonable to store some stuff in... but what, really?

its still not a whole load of space

[trail ether]

forge basically does some bitwise math on IDs to allow IDs to exceed the usual limit

saving the "surplus" in those unused bits in the chunk data

[barren oar]

oh is metadata per-block

[trail ether]

yes

[barren oar]

i was thinking it was per-chunk

[trail ether]

it is an entirely independent int[][][]

[barren oar]

i see

yeah that helps explain it more then

[trail ether]

in my early 2019 playthrough i had an area undergo exactly this kind of corruptionj

the leaves of ic2 wire was not a random example

they were BoP cherry trees

[barren oar]

hah

at least its corrupted into something useful

[trail ether]

hardly

[barren oar]

its a whole lot more useful than leaves

[trail ether]

not only was that section of the world ruined - i deleted it, but there remained a seam in the snow cover, tree generation, and so on - but harvesting "bugged" blocks like that would ruin the playthrough

might as well just spawn stuff in at that point

would not feel any different

[barren oar]

i guess

[trail ether]

the fastest way to eliminate any sense of value and meaning, and consequently motivation to continue, in a playthrough - in this kind of game at least - is to cheat, or knowingly be accelerated by cheating

it might be of limited impact if the thing is something you can readily make tons of, and there is no progression skip nor major time skip (nor anything like skipping very intentionally limited resources)

eg one or two pieces of titanium in SN

but if i found a piece of nickel at 000 five minutes in i would start a new playthrough

and if i found out 20 hours in that my fabricator was only using 2/3 of the ingredients (assume use of EasyCraft to make this go unnoticed) I would not feel like continuing

[barren oar]

i cant say i'd throw out my save just for that though

its going to be 20 more hours of moving slowly (assuming still being in the seamoth stage) and mostly farming for materials, and with a high chance of taking even longer to get back, because resources and fragments are spawned randomly

[trail ether]

??