SeaToSea

[trail ether]

as I DO know about that game

which is why i reacted the way i did

[errant cairn]

Either partially or mostly me

[trail ether]

it need not be remotely so formalized

[karmic drum]

https://tenor.com/view/bakugo-confused-kacchan-anime-gif-17378450

[errant cairn]

Real. Ego is a MASSIVE part of that (why do you think I kept threatening to patch your mod)

[karmic drum]

Everyday my intelligence is proved by people I will never meet

[karmic drum]

My ego was traumatized out of me....

Thank god

[trail ether]

for that gamethat assumption is almost justified

hell I am extremely out of the loop and even i was inundated by news and analyses of it

[errant cairn]

I was planning to make a map that forced you to use bugs as the intended solution. But it never got finished

[karmic drum]

I've never personally heard anything about it. And then I am very antisocial

[trail ether]

I came kind of close to that with a 2018 map of mine, which forces you to use a huge number of cheesy strategies - none of which are bugs, but are silly exploits - to solve it

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1420716328

[errant cairn]

Ffr

[trail ether]

for example blocking a laser by popping a camera off the wall and using that

[errant cairn]

[faint summit]

Astral planes

[errant cairn]

Why? I didn't sign up to become a fucking chemistry major or whatever major forces you to do labs all day

[trail ether]

now that map is heavily inspired by a similarly "cheesy" intended solution in a game tie-in

[errant cairn]

Or pay $30

[karmic drum]

And no. Expectimg people to know about a game DOES NOT count

[trail ether]

https://youtu.be/ALE4IZpgWxs?t=351

[errant cairn]

Fair

[karmic drum]

At least not to me

[errant cairn]

oof

[karmic drum]

*because it's popular

[trail ether]

they are beautiful

[errant cairn]

Oh no I straight up meant bugs like funnel flying (crouch fly glitch)

[karmic drum]

But then again. My brain chemistry is so fucked beyond belief that I am entirely devoid of "common sense" so take me with a pound of salt

[errant cairn]

That's actually crazy. I love that

[errant cairn]

I mean I already execute what you mentioned in what I replied to so yeah that's common sense to me

[trail ether]

I do not remember all of them

and i do not have the solution video on hand at the moment

though i know i recorded one at some point

[errant cairn]

Fair I only remember cfg

[trail ether]

i do remember a few others

like raising a cube over your head to get it over a fizzler

[errant cairn]

A gram of icing would be better

[errant cairn]

O neat I forgor about that

[trail ether]

one of my first maps had that as an exploit

[errant cairn]

Question, how many mods do you actually maintain (as in, update semi-regularly for any reason)

[trail ether]

what is the frequency threshold

or can i just go by "i still intend on working on at least sometimes", as opposed to "i put it out and am very unlikely to ever return" (eg my starbound mods)

[errant cairn]

Sorry. As in, updates come out at least bi-monthly

[trail ether]

that is an exceedingly strict criteria

currently that is only SN, and a few months ago SN was considered "dead" by that metric too

[errant cairn]

[trail ether]

for the most part my mods for game X only get worked on while i am playing game X

which is typically a few-month phase

[errant cairn]

I guess that's why I only make mods for Subnautica

omg I CANT ENGLISH

But also my updates aren't as frequent as bi-monthly because I'm lazy

So yes very harsh metric

[trail ether]

found it

though it is the raw OBS so i have to render it out

one moment

@errant cairn
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/473964862721228800/1430777001827893341/InterferencePattern-Solution.mp4?ex=68fb026b&is=68f9b0eb&hm=05ac5b684d3f96378f74bff2449db374855a9ebdf27dafc063644a394658e22f&

i thought i also included "use the floating laser cube" and "grating+portal clipping" but apparently not

probably because those ARE direct bugs

[errant cairn]

Massive I'm saving this

[trail ether]

https://reikakalseki.github.io/imagedownloads/i-imgur-com_2FaaY202k.png

that is as of 2021

but still

not all of those involve modding

but for when I was modding, and what, the game is an indicator

for example those big 0x22aaff blocks

those are the MC dev server periods

i was typically only modding MC in those periods

at least, post-2014

[faint summit]

Alright, I hate asking directly, but I've been looking quite a while and I've completed my exploration findings for the lost river. Is that one biological material for the heat sealed fabric able to be obtained before going to the lost river? I've read the data entries for the big ghosts and it says they may hold the key but I've been lost as to how.

Even the vaguest of hints would be appreciated.

[trail ether]

it is obtainable well before you need it

[faint summit]

Alright, all I needed to know.

[trail ether]

hint - the method of acquisition is cursed-feeling

[faint summit]

Ok, well that can't be good.

I'm thinking of what it might be and I'm hoping I'm wrong.

[trail ether]

my last update to my MC mods was aug 2023, though that was in part because of the drive failure; for my factorio mods it was nov 2022, and while I planned on updating them to 2.0/SA this last christmas i was burned out by the time i finished my SA playthrough and so had no energy left to do that; my last public update to the stellaris mods was in 2019 because in 2020 the mod got DMCAed, my last SpaceEngineers mod update was in may 2023, which is when i last played, my last FCE mod updates was end of 2024, which was when I last played (and thta was the first time since early 2022, which was in turn the last since nov 2019)

really the only truly abandoned mods are the Starbound ones

last touched in 2016, and with no real plans to revisit them

starbound modding is too limited and the game, while nice, does not grab me enough to justify more

i want to get back into MC and that will involve revisiting my mods

i have a looong list of ideas some new, some old, some half-implemented, and there are a lot of bugfixes people want too

[faint summit]

I love going back to a Frackin Universe playthrough every now and again but the game has a very sterile feeling to it the more you play it.

[karmic drum]

Oh, I was implying common sense to be what people would consider to be socionormative things to know or ways to act in. It doesn't apply to people like you, Reika, or myself

[trail ether]

see scrollbar

[faint summit]

I have an entire acu enclosure for my one lantern ray.

His name is Lucius.

Also the lantern rays are a bit small in the acu.

[trail ether]

is it fully grown

[faint summit]

Yes

And omg, the method to get THAT material is horrid.

I tried a regular (non thermal) knife, I tried the cavitation weapon from the acoustic module, I tried headbutting it with the speed boost but never did I think it would have been...that.

It is indeed very cursed.

Does sampling the membranes hurt them in any way?

[trail ether]

no

that is why i went this way

i wanted to avoid harming them

[faint summit]

Good, they are glowy good boys and deserve the best.

That being said, I am wondering about how the Ghost Leviathans and Chelicerates interact on the open water.

Probably not very well.

Ghosts are filter feeders, chelicerates are not.

Which means they are the only natural food option for chelicerates or there is some other creature in the crater edge that they prey on.

Or are olbigate cannibals.

[barren oar]

how does [action] not harm [entity]? I'd imagine [action] is pretty painful

unless you mean in a strictly game sense i guess

[faint summit]

Implying the action requires power, delete that spoiler immediately.

: )

[barren oar]

as in, [entity]'s hp just does not go down as a result of that

[barren oar]

i guess

[faint summit]

I'm joking

[barren oar]

you can get a good idea by what I'd said though, is true

[faint summit]

No I'm sorry no delete.

[barren oar]

i edited out the part lol

[faint summit]

How many things did you try before you figured it out, cause as stated above, I tried some cursed solutions.

[barren oar]

im keeping up with c2c updates through reading the source code because i dont have the time nor feel like installing legacy through whatever method there is available, keeping up with c2c binary updates and investing time into the save

its a really cool mod though no doubt

[faint summit]

Uh oh, don't tell Reika that.

[barren oar]

ive mentioned i do that several times now i doubt its new information

[faint summit]

Ah

[faint summit]

@trail ether I remembered you asked me to look at the harmony log to see why the drills for FCS were depleting instantly. It seems all patches were completed without error.

[trail ether]

that is good, but then it leaves me with no explanation

[faint summit]

I have no idea what it is, but the entrance to the ILZ behind the cove tree has me at like 2 fps until I get away from whatever those glowy things are at the transition between the ILZ and the cove.

[trail ether]

those glowy things are the source of the lag

or at least were

[barren oar]

didnt you limit their spawning some time ago so they wouldn't be a problem anymore?

unless im thinking of another thing

[trail ether]

yes i limited their achievable density, as well as a couple other things

[barren oar]

i see

could it be the number of spawns isnt kept track of properly (between saves or otherwise), or the cap doesnt take effect? or just that illumination is taxing, which you cant really do much about besides remove them/their glow in that case

though... creepvine seeds glow as well(?) and forests dont really produce significant enough lag, in my experience

[trail ether]

they do not actually emit light as far as i remember

they have high specular, which in SN looks almost like emissive

eg ghost leviathans are mostly done with spectex

that bright cyan shine is pure specular

hence why they look dull and dark in a lot of cases - that is the illum doing all the work

[trail ether]

fertile creepvine is pretty sparse

[barren oar]

ah, been a while since ive last seen them so i was trusting word of mouth more than what i could recall

[trail ether]

at one light per core that is a mere few dozen across the entire biome

[barren oar]

i guess thats a fair enough point

[trail ether]

https://i.imgur.com/twScZYM.png https://i.imgur.com/6u1rnRK.png https://i.imgur.com/6cG9aHS.png

[barren oar]

mhm i see now

[trail ether]

specint adopts some of the enviromental ambient color, henc ewhy it is greenish here too

[trail ether]

i just went there myself and no lag

but i did not get lag before so that is not useful

[worldly valve]

I forgot i wanted to check.that spot myself

My current file is basically unplayable until i make my base pretty tho

[faint summit]

From people's experience, is it generally fine if you use the other entrance to the ILZ?

[karmic drum]

Dunno. Never made it that far down

Heck I don't even know if you're supposed to have the prawn suit by the time you get down to the LR or not

[worldly valve]

There is like 4 or 5

All will work

[trail ether]

define

[worldly valve]

Tho some are better fot sure

[worldly valve]

I used an entrance i thought was not very good on every playthrough

Well not entirely true

Pnw playthrough i did what i consider the best entrance

But that area has a problem for me every time

Not sure if its been fixed

Its not an immediate problem anyways

I like to call it cascading lag, tho im almost certain jts not really "lag"

[faint summit]

There are only two entrances to the ILZ.

Behind the cove tree and past the canyon behind the disease research facility.

There are 4 entrances to the lost river though, so maybe that's what you meant.

[worldly valve]

Oh my b

I misread

[faint summit]

Ah, the moments when you take the plunge to build even deeper bases in the ILZ, and you forget to bring quartz for a hatch.

[worldly valve]

Oooooooooofty

[faint summit]

I'm having a bit of a hard time understanding why the ILZ is a morale destroyer. I get that it's 92c and a volcanic hellscape but some would find that pretty cool.

There's nothing immediately menacing about the area either, not like the Blood Kelp zone.

[pearl pier]

presumably for some kind of balancing purpose? Whatever that purpose might be

[karmic drum]

I think it's a lot less "cool" when you're there against your will, had to endure horrors beyond the average human comprehension to get there, and are actively fighting for your life while the environment itself tried to choke you out

[fiery fiber]

Am I stupid or what. I can't find d a good source for how to downgrade to legacy after the forced upgrade and subnautica is u playable foe me now without c2c 😭

[faint summit]

Nah, it's cool : )

[barren oar]

apparently the pinned guide in #❓┃help-and-support works

no confirmation from my end whether it does or is secure, however

[trail ether]

just from the constant severe damage

but i do remember adding direct morale influence too

and i also remember thinking it was superfluous given the damage

unrelated https://i.imgur.com/jRdXXhJ.png

[pearl pier]

lol

so I need to work out how to get a specific material for the temporary boost

I am curious

how exactly do vents work?

(if they work the same as vanilla)

do they spit out peepers at a consistent rate or are based on the amount of peepers that actually go in

[errant cairn]

Tf? What seemingly outrageous stereotypes are out there for modders?!?!

[errant cairn]

Sure I'm not normal, but I'm am exception to the largely normal modder's life

[pearl pier]

thinking about making another seamoth soon

[trail ether]

I used to get similar comments because of RotaryCraft

[trail ether]

they do

[trail ether]

they actually ingest and release peepers

[pearl pier]

one for general "get items from point A to point B" and one for upgrades/exploration

[pearl pier]

well that gives a use to the plankton feeder I suppose

good to know

I need to setup a rock crusher somewhere with Silver I keep running low

or maybe I should just bit the bullet and setup the auto collectors at the jellyshroom cave already

[errant cairn]

Crazy

[faint summit]

You don't ever need enough enzyme peepers to justify building a feeder next to a vent, but the thing is some of the peepers will attempt to slipspace jump into the horizon when they zip out of the vent.

While some just lazily float around.

[faint summit]

Yes there's that, but even in areas where you aren't getting burned your morale drops from 100 to 0 in less than 7 seconds.

[faint summit]

So the seamoth drill arm is not able to be mounted to any of the seamoth slots.

Are you required to build the prawn suit before you can use them?

[trail ether]

what areas is that

[faint summit]

The corridor leading to the ILZ chamber

The pathway behind the cove tree.

If you stay high enough to the ceiling you don't get burnt.

Morale drops very quickly regardless.

[barren oar]

just that compsci majors typically turn out to be furry, trans or autistic or a combination of either

the only really logical reason ive seen for this is due to the inherent disconnect between real life and virtual that comes with interacting with any digital space

[faint summit]

I'm more dissatisfied with the seamoth drill arm not being functional as it was very expensive to make.

[barren oar]

in the sense that one can be more comfortable expressing themselves over the internet than through real life since you can more easily choose what type of people you're surrounded with (people that wouldn't continually harass one for being themselves, for one)

...this might be too deep a discussion to be having in the sea to sea thread, however

[faint summit]

So deep you'd need a liquid breathing module to talk about it.

[barren oar]

hah

[faint summit]

I'll be here all week.

[errant cairn]

Is ADHD on that list?

[errant cairn]

LMAO i'll be there soon™

I got AIOHHF to finish then I got some stuff for another mod to do

[trail ether]

that should still do heat dama-

[trail ether]

oh

[barren oar]

admittedly i dont know how adhd relates to autism, if at all

my understanding is they were mostly one and the same

[trail ether]

amusingly when i came out at work i was expecting some amount of problems because 2/3 of the team is 55+ year old white guys who are the most "traditional lifestyle" you could imagine

though to be fair almost all of us have engineering and not CS backgrounds, myself included

then again with engineering being as conservative as it is that would just reinforce the expectation

[trail ether]

i will rebalance it

[barren oar]

is it? i thought engineering was the same as cs in that regard

[trail ether]

I think it is much more that the consequences online are FAR less impactful compared to IRL

[barren oar]

that too yes

[trail ether]

people who know you IRL, even if they lack actual power over you, can have a much larger influence on the quality of your life

let alone people who do have such power, such as a professor or an employer

[barren oar]

at most you can get your rough location posted from getting your ip grabbed or you posting images from the neighborhood, or so

[trail ether]

yes engineering is infamously traditional in the mold it expects people to be

[barren oar]

irl there's a higher danger because you're in close contact

[trail ether]

part of that is because it skews older so heavily

but not entirely

[barren oar]

i see

[trail ether]

for example engineering firms are FAR more likely than most STEM-type companies to be highly rigid about things like personal appearance

which as it happens is something that was incessantly used as a cudgel against me when I was first looking to enter the field

[trail ether]

for example directly demanding you have a "respectable" haircut as a precondition to being considered as a viable applicant

[faint summit]

Thenk u

[trail ether]

which if you live in a megacity like me is of zero actual risk

ok you narrowed me down to a 30x30km area

congratulations now you only have...checks notes...nine million possibilities

much more comforting than if I lived in Bumville, Saskatechewan, population 87 and three dogs

[trail ether]

they are entirely different

I even have some memory of reading that they are unlikely to occur in tandem (does comorbid have an antonym?)

[trail ether]

even we deal with some of that because we are more of an engineering-oriented company than a software one

for example IT, no doubt under pressure frmo some idiot in the C suite, banned dark themes in IDEs

now I do not like dark themes

they give me eyestrain

[barren oar]

huh, ill inform myself a bit better sometime

[barren oar]

Awful

[trail ether]

yet I would almost bet money that some exec saw someone in dark mode, and had an emotional reaction because it reminds them of some movie depiction of hackers or something, and went "our company doesn't employ hackers! We are professionals here!"

[faint summit]

Really nice ghosting effect produced by deconstructing an alkili vine grow plot.

[pearl pier]

god bless the rock crusher

i have no clue how I would get enough silver and copper to do shit without it

[pearl pier]

good old classic extremely vague hints that bassicly tell you nothing

[fiery fiber]

Ah thank you! I want looking on the pins guides a d just searching in the chat. Doh! Will try again. Thank you!

[barren oar]

hah yeah

ooh actually reading that it might be cool if crushing some things in different biomes produced different things

cant say i remember something like that though

at least, since the last time i played

hmm... actually? correction: fun to figure out: no, interesting use of the mechanic: mostly

[faint summit]

@trail ether This keeps happening from time to time with the FCS drills on the meteor. I assume it's related to a certain rare mineral.

[errant cairn]

Seems to be some debug because "TechType.None" is just a question mark with literally no value. At all

[karmic drum]

You wanna use the vent in the grand reef, just off of lifepod 9, under the ghost leviathan

Absolute peeper factory

[trail ether]

that is because the model gets a shader that overrides the texture, revealing the original model

same reason you for example can see spikes when scanning larvae

[karmic drum]

Is it bad that I want to leave a couple of those mid construction just for the looks?

[trail ether]

that is a thing

[barren oar]

ah!

[trail ether]

TechType.None is the default fallback value

equivalent to null

since enums are not nullable

[trail ether]

possible

[karmic drum]

Huh... can't say I'd ever have thought to try that

Have to remember that once I manage my overstimulation well enough to sit down and play SN again

[barren oar]

i guess the range of possibilities is pretty small too

since it has to be something that would make sense to enter in a chemical reaction

[faint summit]

No, I thought the same thing.

[karmic drum]

I just hope that wouldn't weirdly cause lag or something. Or that I wouldn't be able to see them from across the map like I can with moon pools, my lifepod, and a scanner room I forgot to finish one time.

[faint summit]

Partially deconstructing something would alleviate lag if anything.

You've got nothing to worry about as far as I know.

[karmic drum]

Seriously though? Why can I see the bottom of my lifepod and moonpools from virtually any distance away from them?

Is there a graphics setting I need to turn off?

I know food isn't a primary morale mechanic

But a freezer compartment upgrade for the seamoth sounds kind of neat

Something to keep fruits and fish fresh when you travel

[forest valve]

iirc bases are always loaded in, thats a vanilla thing for some reason, idk about the lifepod tho

[trail ether]

transparency layering issues

a very common issue in games

[karmic drum]

Does sn in particular have a fix?

[karmic drum]

I can't see the whole objects. Just where they break or split from the water

[trail ether]

no

brine and cyclops HUD has the same issue

[karmic drum]

Ah

Okay

Well if there's no fix then I'm not gonna be uptight about it

[trail ether]

not helping matters is that water is not a texture that is rendered directly

ie there are no polygons, so the depth buffer is empty; there is no water "in front" to even use for standard culling logic

it is a fog shader effect

[faint summit]

I'm pretty sure they resolved the transparency issues in the latest versions of SN.

As far as the bases are concerned.

[karmic drum]

I never noticed it until I transitioned to legacy

There's just no version of 2.0 that I want to play right now

[faint summit]

Yeah, the only overhauls that even exist for 2025 build is red plague and prototype expansion.

And with the state that the most recent security updates have left legacy builds, overhauls in general are kind of just dead in the water.

There are methods to downpatch, but the realistic amount of people who are going to go through the effort of doing that are few.

[worldly valve]

Why?

[trail ether]

well I just paid $50 shipping on a $39 product

....and then posted about it in the wrong place

oops

[unreal flame]

lol

[trail ether]

I would like to know how

since ChromatiCraft has the same problem

[faint summit]

You and me both, but the only reason this stood out before I had done c2c is because I had never played legacy before.

[forest valve]

right place now

i paid 15$ shipping, and 55$ extra for a 400$ product

well, to get it fixed, because otherwise it would cost 100$

[faint summit]

The wonders of industry.

[faint summit]

This meteorite excavation base has single handedly funded my lategame.

[faint summit]

This unfortunately still does not help my magnetite shortage.

[faint summit]

Man, I start up my save, 5 seconds later, it CTD's without any form of stuttering or fanfare.

Happens every time too.

[karmic drum]

What turning subnautica into Minecraft tech modpack does to a mf

[karmic drum]

Should be plenty down in the river no?

[faint summit]

Well my save is fucked now so it's kind of irrelevant.

The log only mentions an access violation and a bunch of null references related to the ampeel antenna functions.

[karmic drum]

Don't yeet it just yet

It may still be salvagable

And if not... then we've all learned a valuable lesson about the dangers of amp eel antennae

[trail plinth]

did we though

[karmic drum]

We'll find out when we find out if his save is permanently cooked 😂

[trail ether]

Stack Trace of Crashed Thread 1640:
0x00007FFC0A37A330 (UnityPlayer) UnityMain
0x00007FFC0A67C229 (UnityPlayer) PAL_Thread_YieldExecution
0x00007FFC0A6DDC44 (UnityPlayer) PAL_Thread_YieldExecution
0x000002120B0EABAA (UnityEngine.CoreModule) UnityEngine.Object.FindObjectsOfType()
0x00000212E6D1DB63 (UnityEngine.CoreModule) UnityEngine.Object.FindObjectsOfType()
0x000002131D529113 (FCS_StorageSolutions) FCS_StorageSolutions.Configuration.Mod.CleanDummyServers()
0x000002131D528D73 (FCS_StorageSolutions) FCS_StorageSolutions.Mods.DataStorageSolutions.Mono.Rack.DSSRackBase.Start()
0x0000021258720080 (mscorlib) System.Object.runtime_invoke_void__this__()
0x00007FFBCCF3BFB0 (mono-2.0-bdwgc) mono_get_runtime_build_info
0x00007FFBCCEC2142 (mono-2.0-bdwgc) mono_perfcounters_init
0x00007FFBCCECB13F (mono-2.0-bdwgc) mono_runtime_invoke
0x00007FFC0A67FBBD (UnityPlayer) PAL_Thread_YieldExecution
0x00007FFC0A67D13A (UnityPlayer) PAL_Thread_YieldExecution
0x00007FFC0A665FF6 (UnityPlayer) PAL_Thread_YieldExecution
0x00007FFC0A66608E (UnityPlayer) PAL_Thread_YieldExecution
0x00007FFC0A663379 (UnityPlayer) PAL_Thread_YieldExecution
0x00007FFC0A41F91C (UnityPlayer) UnityMain
0x00007FFC0A559B37 (UnityPlayer) UnityMain
0x00007FFC0A559BD9 (UnityPlayer) UnityMain
0x00007FFC0A55BBD2 (UnityPlayer) UnityMain
0x00007FFC0A3239A5 (UnityPlayer) PAL_Thread_SupportsThreads
0x00007FFC0A32241A (UnityPlayer) PAL_Thread_SupportsThreads
0x00007FFC0A326451 (UnityPlayer) PAL_Thread_SupportsThreads
0x00007FFC0A329D9B (UnityPlayer) UnityMain
ERROR: SymGetSymFromAddr64, GetLastError: 'Attempt to access invalid address.' (Address: 00007FF674ED11F2)
0x00007FF674ED11F2 (Subnautica) (function-name not available)
0x00007FFC6B997374 (KERNEL32) BaseThreadInitThunk
0x00007FFC6C95CC91 (ntdll) RtlUserThreadStart

that is highly suggestive of the problem

though it is also highly unusual for a problem in C# code to cause crashes deep in the actual C++ side of things

i would try to load it a few times and then remove the server rack if you can get in

unfortunately i do not think there are any SN save editors so that is not an option

but if there were it would be easy to remove that GameObject

[faint summit]

I’ll try my best

I have backups, they’re just from hours ago.

[trail ether]

good that you do though

[faint summit]

I know this is very ill advised, but I suppose disabling the data storage solutions part of FCS storage is also perhaps an option.

One that risks future instability mind you.

What about those null references related to the ampeel antenna, was that sus at all?

[trail ether]

yes, it is

[trail ether]

honestly it is probably not that bad

[trail ether]

where?

[faint summit]

I swear I saw them in a log somewhere.

[faint summit]

Does anyone else feel that the cyclops is even more irrelevant in sea to sea than it is in vanilla? You go 90% of the game without it and when you do get it you can't use it where you need it the most until you solve the power drain and heat issues.

Can't take it into the crater edge I don't believe.

And I'm opening a discourse, not criticizing the mod.

[trail ether]

that is distinctly not the intent

and i am not sure that is true

[barren oar]

i think its mandatory for more than getting an ingredient for the rocket in c2c

but i cant say anything about how useful it's after alz since i couldnt continue the save past just barely getting there

its a semi convenient mobile base but you're so limited by it that you're going to need to enter a real base 80% of the time after getting it, which does make ot worse than vanilla in that regard

[trail ether]

also i came across this old bug report https://i.imgur.com/j2DTyBB.jpg

feb 2018

not for SN but thought it was funny

[karmic drum]

I don't want to be that guy... but I think it's less about it's relevance compared to technology you previously had access to. But rather making the best out of something you worked hard to achieve. It's also much more thematic to traverse those sorts of areas in that larger sub. Adding an extra level of atmosphere to your gameplay

Sometimes it isn't about what's statistically the best. It's what feels right

[faint summit]

I agree that feel is very important, but doing what you feel is right and not what you know is right in c2c get's you killed.

[karmic drum]

It's not the what

It's the how

c2c is a puzzle. And everything is a piece.

[faint summit]

You're right, and the cyclops is that one piece from a different puzzle that got mixed in.

[karmic drum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1091885800465121312/1413691773171007608/ezgif-3261ba9778a97c.gif

I love being a black sheep

[faint summit]

Having a different opinion doesn't make you a black sheep, it's makes you a human being

[karmic drum]

Shoot thanks. Forgot I wasn't in the warframe discord for a second

[faint summit]

[trail ether]

....what?

[unreal flame]

the trouble with the cyclops and prawn in C2C is that by being moved later, they give the seamoth some much-needed light of day, but that push back eats into how much time the other two are given despite how much more time there is in a c2c run relative to basegame

[barren oar]

prawn is still a good chunk of the game because of how slow c2c is but yeah, given what i know, i dont see the cyclops as a "utility vehicle" and more of a "stepping stone"

clearly, the only solution is to add the arctic biome back into the game and make a cyclops on fire the only way to traverse it without freezing to death

or more seriously, something that requires the cyclops for being the cyclops and not the cyclops happening to be able to solve [problem] before you have another method

though obviously this is vastly easier said than done

[trail ether]

the value of the cyclops is as a mobile base

[barren oar]

can you use the bioprocessor in a cyclops

last i recall you couldnt

the machine that carries you for like 50% of your recipes

[trail ether]

no but the power demand would make that impoissible anyway

[barren oar]

oh ok cool so it does not remove the need for stationary bases

[trail ether]

no

[barren oar]

sure you have a shitton of storage with it but prawn suit is already busted and you're going to have at least a base in every relevant area by the time you get it anyhow

scanner rooms and recharging bases (both in terms of battery and food/water, nowadays also morale and also the secret fourth thing you discover and use extensively before getting the cyclops)

so like. whats the point of making an objectively worse base that you can move around from base A to base B when you aren't going to be moving that much material anyway

obviously part of the point is [puzzle], but as i've already mentioned it becomes more of a necessary investment than qol improvement

thats my view on it, anyhow

[unreal flame]

it makes excursions easier

the cyclops as a staging ground for operations with either the seamoth or prawn

[barren oar]

from my perspective it just makes them longer for no real benefit because of how slow it is (unless you like living on the edge and nearly exploding your cyclops whenever you take it out for a ride)

nothing can beat the experience of prawn suit grappling around

though i guess you dont have that kinda speed at the seamoth stage and you can get the cyclops before the prawn suit(?)

[trail ether]

it is not just storage

[barren oar]

actually im not too certain on that last part, i think you unlock the ability to craft them at the same time, no?

both require [thing] you obtain by sacrificing yourself many times

[trail ether]

it is storage, fab, food, and more

[trail ether]

yes

i used it like that

even in c2c

just not as muchas in vanilla

[barren oar]

"fab, food and more" are already solved by the several bases you already have placed around the world, though

[trail ether]

i lkike the idea of making the cyclops used more

but i do not know how

[barren oar]

though. there is a point to be made here about familiarity

if you know where everything is, you do not need as many recharging/scanner bases

in which case yes the cyclops becomes a hellalot more valuable

you'd only really need such bases for very, very few things (industrial mining operations, loot scavenging from the ground, lost river because its mechanic basically mandates it)

oh and the [thing] obtaining i mentioned earlier

[unreal flame]

difficult. by the time it's built, the player is fast-approaching ||the brine problem|| which the cyclops just cannot reasonably deal with until a certain, much later point

[barren oar]

you also wouldn't have bases in the ilz and alz prior to getting a cyclops (since that's the time you can get it anyway), but its a significantly smaller area you really need to thoroughly explore and you only have a few POIs, that you can get to easily without the cyclops as well

[trail ether]

it cna have use outside that

now

the new collector tether adds value

you can trawl

[barren oar]

except what are you going to be picking up thats in any way relevant

[unreal flame]

maybe that'll just have to be addressed via compat with other mods. prawn too

[barren oar]

azurite, you already collected every piece above [depth] by the time you have the cyclops

...mostly because of the 45 azurite craft

minerals, you have the prawn suit and can go mining for

eggs? you only need two to start a waterpark that'll carry you to the end

my point being that its an interesting idea, but i dont see how it helps especially when you're at the stage where you're finally able to construct the cyclops

[faint summit]

The cyclops also negates the morale damage from traveling through dangerous biomes.

Didn't see anyone mention that so thought I'd chime in.

Though you don't seem to get morale from piloting it like you do the seamoth which is a bit puzzling.

[barren oar]

oh? intriguing

[faint summit]

Also something odd that I just noticed is that the power cells in the cyclops do not drain consecutively like they do in 2.0\

They seem to drain concurrently.

And by that I mean it seems to draw power from all of the cells at "random" instead of fully depleting one and then drawing power from the next one.

[trail plinth]

The cyclops honestly feels like more of a reward, since once you're able to have it functional in those zones, it's basically perfect for everything you could possibly need. And anything you need with either a prawn or seamoth, well, you can just bring it with you anyway. The only downside is the speed and maneuverability, but otherwise it's basically an indestructible (as long as you charge it) mobile base with an assortment of useful modules

[faint summit]

You vs the guy she tells you not to worry about.

[trail plinth]

It's not absolutely necessary per se, and is obviously a huge resource sink, but it's still immensely useful and rewarding

[faint summit]

Yes, but the point we were getting at was that the cyclops comes long after you've been forced to traverse most of the demoralizing and dangerous biomes (ILZ excepted of course).

[trail plinth]

The ability to press a button and functionally ignore leviathan predators as you coast by for as long as you can sustain the power usage is really nice

[faint summit]

It's a great vessel, but the time we get to use it is miniscule.

[trail plinth]

ehhhh disagree. It's obtainable fairly early within one of those zones, and is useful before you even overcome the challenges of that zone

I'm capable of making one currently (just gotta grind for some more resources that I've already acquired before), and I haven't solved either issue in either zone for my seamoth

[faint summit]

Yeah, if you posses meta knowledge and know how to get electrolytes it is.

[trail plinth]

Not really meta knowledge, I just read the recipe and have access to it based on hte materials required

[faint summit]

The fact of the matter is this, most people are going to explore most surface biomes before going to the lost river. That's just how the mod is designed, it funnels you towards that point.

[trail plinth]

Yes, absolutely. However you don't necessarily stop exploring those surface biomes once you get to the lost river. You still need to visit them for materials, unless you do a big thing where you salvage the entire map wiht just your seamoth

[faint summit]

: )

I would never

[karmic drum]

Having read everything... I'm with Hex and Reika on this one

[faint summit]

There are no sides.

Just people discussing things.

[faint summit]

@trail ether I found out what was causing the crash.

It may have been related to the server storage but apparently putting an autocrafter on maintaining an amount of carboxylic acid was causing it.

[karmic drum]

Oh I wasn't intending to say there's a right or wrong. Just that I agree with what they're saying

[faint summit]

I sure am glad the reaper leviathan that guards the spot of the dunes closest to the vent got launched into the stratosphere by a warper teleporting in on top of him.

Makes getting lumenshroom oil that much easier

The tonguelillies have always had a text prompt on them saying they're "accumulating minerals", does that mean anything mechanically?

[trail plinth]

I mean if i read that something would accumulate minerals, Id probably want it

[faint summit]

Well it's been at 0% forever

But I know you're saying that to tell me that it is useful for something besides filters.

Are you supposed to have the prawn suit depth module mk1 unlocked when you build it?

[worldly valve]

I thought you got to the lost rivee? Did things change?

Maybe im crazy and confusing with someone else

[trail plinth]

Does it say anything else? Where'd you put htem anyway

[faint summit]

Growbed out front.

The PDA entry says they have use in filtering tech but beyond that their other function is a bit of a mystery to me.

Maybe I have to put them somewhere else.

Maybe in the ILZ or something, that would make some sense.

[faint summit]

I did, you get tonguelillies from the mushroom forest.

But there is a certain ingredient that I have yet to figure out how to get that I'm racking my mind for.

They're granular so it has to be some sort of filtering.

I learned the hard way they aren't inside of the spicy mushrooms.

[trail plinth]

What do the tonguelillies filter?

[faint summit]

Nothing in the ILZ, it says there isn't sufficient organic material nearby.

[trail plinth]

I meant the PDA entry

[faint summit]

"Pollen, Bacteria, and other microscopic organisms"

[faint summit]

Ok, so yes or no, are you supposed to have the mkI prawn suit depth module by default or is it unlocked in some way?

[trail ether]

in vanilla it is unlocked by default

in vanilla

[trail ether]

how did you get to where you are without having cleared this first

[faint summit]

What do you mean? All you need for the prawn is the magical glass and irridium.

Are you telling me I was not supposed to be sustaining 3rd degree burns for two hours while gathering obsidian?

[trail ether]

if you are trying to get what it sounds like you are trying to get, you should have needed that 20 hours ago

if not more

[faint summit]

For what? Nothing requires that at that point that I'm aware of.

I certainly didn't need it yet.

[trail ether]

I know

or rather strongly suspected

[faint summit]

Perhaps you can give me a hint of what I was supposed to need it for.

[barren oar]

wasnt [item mentioned above] replaced by [recent, arguably easier to obtain item] for the crafting material you'd need to get before the point ethan's at?

[karmic drum]

That is exactly what I'm wondering

He should've been melted by now

[karmic drum]

Yes

[barren oar]

you talking about the reinforced dive suit? item which, nowadays, no longer requires [item mentioned above]?

[karmic drum]

||pretty sure she's talking about the heat sink upgrades||

[barren oar]

how do you collect items while doing that though

i fail to see how it helps any with the grind, in any regard

since you'll have to babysit [thing] and spend a lot of time in [area]

[worldly valve]

Was

The grains removed

Im guessing no

I too was confused by this

[barren oar]

removed no

[trail ether]

no, long before that

[barren oar]

then i have absolutely zero clue what takes [item mentioned above]

nothing i can see through a quick glance in the repo, either

[trail ether]

oh so it is

[trail ether]

new release

with a half-completed feature

[faint summit]

Mod creator gaslights me into believing I've bypassed vital progression.

We live in a society.

Also based new release.

[trail ether]

https://i.imgur.com/F3lLrbN.png

it is working fine every time

[faint summit]

Tell Hellexar to unpin those recipes you ruffian.

[trail ether]

"no"

XD

[faint summit]

Ah

You changed the efficient lysing enzyme recipe back.

Oh joy

[trail ether]

wait what

[faint summit]

Oh not the enzyme, the bacterial samples, I am in error.

[trail ether]

that made me panic for a second

[faint summit]

Good

Does anyone know where this is, I don't even remember scanning this.

[trail ether]

that is probably more of your scan table being fucked up

[faint summit]

I mean I've been to the ILZ, made it all the way to the lava castle, but I don't recall seeing or scanning this.

And before you ask, I got there with many medkits and building bases along the way.

I know that's not what I'm supposed to do, but I still haven't found tungsten grains yet.

And as we've discussed at great length, I've overlooked them quite a while ago.

[trail ether]

yes because your scan table is scrambled

[faint summit]

Only a bit surely : )

Only other thing that has been odd as far as scans go is it keeps telling me I haven't found the dunes metoerite in the exploration findings even though I have the PDA entry on it.

[trail ether]

just got both of a double too

[trail plinth]

hehe

cyclops complete though, plus some of the upgrades, so some of them were unpinned

[faint summit]

So it took my tongue lilies 1 hour and 20 minutes to reach 31% mineral accumulation.

Is there something I'm not understanding or does it just take an absurdly long time for them to accumulate.

...They didn't even have what I thought they were going to have.

I'm sad now.

[merry gorge]

I have a question

If legacy was removed on steam, how do I play C2C

[faint summit]

#❓┃help-and-support Look at the pinned posts, it will tell you how.

[faint summit]

I spent quite a while looking for ||tungsten grains|| yesterday. Most of that time spent planting the tongue lilies in various biomes to see if they would produce anything. I planted them in the glass forest, lost river, tree cove, ILZ corridor, and the mushroom forest. With the exception of the mushroom forest (in which they gave me salt), they produced nothing. This is one of those time I'm going to beg for a hint again to prevent what little sanity I have left from slipping.

I'm not even sure if the tongue lilies are the method to obtain them, which makes this all the more maddening.

[barren oar]

you are on the right track - they have a pretty low chance to be generated, all things considered

in addition, its not only the biome that matters in this scenario...

[faint summit]

Yeah I noticed that some of them were generating minerals much more slowly than others.

[trail ether]

that is not true

they are the highest weight by far

[trail ether]

the former

[barren oar]

huh

[trail ether]

it is not driven by time

reread the databank entry

[trail ether]

i also want to specifically call out the way you are writing things off here

i have no problem disclosing that they have a drop table

but the way you describe your testing is of trying each area once, getting an item other than what you want, and concluding that it is not relevant to you, including directly ignoring any potential significance behind getting different items at different times

first half, about incomplete experimentation

[faint summit]

The experimentation took an hour and twenty minutes. The other areas said there was insufficient biological matter nearby so there was nothing even generated there. Unless they actually need proximity to something specific in which case I'll need to reevaluate how I'm doing things completely.

As much as I am open to exploring and testing, this is by far one of the most vague aspects of the mod I've encountered.

So it's going to take a little bit.

And the notion of them having a drop table was not something I would expect, the reason I'm so quick to write them off was the time it took for the only yield of minerals was over an hour.

And to set the record straight, I haven't "written off" anything, because I simply don't know at this point. The lilies I've set up are still there, I'm simply trying in multiple locations.

[trail ether]

uh...why would this be so unexpected

[trail ether]

even though it is not required until now it is incredibly surprising that this is not something you incidentally learned far before now

indeed the...pressure comes very early specifically to avoid what you are now experiencing

as some people complained to no end when it was introduced

that is in fact a hint by the way

that the underlying mechanism, or rather the game mechanic designed to make you experience it, caused a ton of complaints

[trail ether]

i would pay closer attention under which circumstances they collect matter

[faint summit]

I'll observe harder-er.

[trail ether]

also @faint summit what bases have you built and where (only including ones you actually use)

[faint summit]

I've built bases in the Bulb Zone, Sparse Reef/Grand Reef, Crash Zone (For harvesting the aurora), all sections of the lost river, and the ILZ corridor leading up the lava castle chamber.

The sparse reef, bulb zone, lost river, and ILZ bases are the only ones that are actually developed in any capacity.

There was a minor base at the glass forest to harvest the shiny crystals with the rock crusher but I disassembled it after I got the drill arms.

OH, and the dunes meteorite base, don't know why I forgot to mention it.

@trail ether

[trail ether]

that is sufficient

[karmic drum]

Not giving the answer to why he's suffering is so hard

[faint summit]

Sufficient she says. You wound me with so few words.

[karmic drum]

Like I'm holding back my spoilers

[karmic drum]

That's... the entire point

All I can say. Is the thing you're missing is something that most find extremely annoying

[trail ether]

and impossible to avoid

[karmic drum]

But apparently managable somehow

Also man... be glad you're finding this after Reika fixed it

So many of us had a collective game of telephone trying to make it work

[barren oar]

hah, yeah

good(?) times

unity's systems fucking up the mechanic...

[trail ether]

it had a bug but people were reporting completely false solutions, causes, and also completely false statements about what you are even supposed to be doing, invalidating a lot of testing

[worldly valve]

There was a bunch of us that had most the right elements

The testing points were sparadic thi

I feel like most people knew the thing with the thing to do the thing

[patent nimbus]

so i just saw this video and thought itd be really cool if you unlocked the recipe for the|| prototype cure thing you use with the liquid breathing|| by researching like this

https://youtu.be/B5IXxs-rkEQ?si=_CGMySxejEwHIkJK

[trail ether]

"i never expected the most obvious behavior from one of the core mechanics of the game which the narrative is specifically built around and is explicitly spelled out in the databank"

[errant cairn]

pov: me when i was playing sea to sea and subnautica (two different play throughs) for the very first time

[trail plinth]

mfw you play an overhaul mod as your first experience to the game

[errant cairn]

my very first experiences were entirely unmodded

[worldly valve]

Thats my minecraft experience🥲

[trail ether]

@faint summit

that is from "time zero"

that is the whole point; by the time you need them you have plenty

image reupload

[faint summit]

I'm sure it seems perfectly reasonably in your eyes, but preparing for something I do not know is coming by taking advantage of a completely unknown (to me) mechanic seems like some incredible hindsight bias.

Perhaps I'll feel differently later on.

[trail plinth]

It's less about preparing for a particular thing and more that the thing you need later on is accumulated as more of a byproduct of something else you're trying to do

I didn't get these tungsten grains on purpose, or with any intent to get them

[trail ether]

^

and that something else is very in-your-face

[faint summit]

I'm sure I'll laugh about it later.

No, don't tell me.

It can't possibly be.

That

[trail plinth]

It's more likely than you think

[faint summit]

Well it didn't seem to do anything, maybe it was facing the wrong way.

[errant cairn]

with this photo i just realized i can spell my last name with the perodic table of elements

[trail ether]

that is a thing a lot of people play with

mine cannot be, either IRL or online

[errant cairn]

Oop, nope I can't 😭

[unreal flame]

KAlSeKI

[trail ether]

that is only part of the name

there is no Ka or simply A

[forest valve]

over 100 elements yet no alphabet of them

[errant cairn]

Assuming your last name is your discord username minus "reika,"
K - Potassium
Al - Aluminum
Se - Selenium
K - Potassium (again)
I - Iodine
KAlSeKI

If your name was Reica,
Re - Rhenium
I - Iodine
Ca - Calcium
Sadly, no Ka or A

[trail ether]

my IRL name has no similarity to the name I use online

that would be insane

[errant cairn]

I didn't mean your IRL last name

[unreal flame]

I figured the discussion was about last names specifically

[faint summit]

I figured out how to get the holy grains, the reason I had not seen them at all until now is because I've been using the FCS water fountain the whole time

At least I'm pretty sure this is it. You said it was a byproduct and that's exactly what it is.

[unreal flame]

that does seem like something that could probably use addressing

[trail plinth]

Oh youre using FCS, then yeah i have no clue what kind of stuff that mod has that would affect the need for those

[faint summit]

It has a very cheap water fountain that only requires titanium.

3 titanium and 5 pipes total I think.

[worldly valve]

Could just got katacana?sp Style and just get closish

[trail plinth]

What does the water fountain do though? If it's somehow replaced the need for the particular thing you would want early on, then that's probably going to be an issue

[unreal flame]

hilarious option: the fountain doesn't filter the water at all, so you're just drinking pure seawater and losing thirst for that reason

[faint summit]

It doesn't, it provides water with no byproduct.

Seeing the problem?

[karmic drum]

You shouldn't be able to get the grains through salt anymore?

I thought Reika patched that out several updates ago?

[faint summit]

I don't even know what you're referring to.

Though you saying that makes me think this isn't the way after all.

[karmic drum]

Yea no. That's not the way. It also makes me think thr version of the mod you're running is just a bit out of date

[trail ether]

..what

[trail ether]

that is a way to get a little, or at least was, but as mentioned previously people were confidently repeating falsehoods about it being the way back when this was introduced

and it was so pervasive I might well have removed it

[karmic drum]

I believe you did

[faint summit]

Well at the very least, I learned about the new mechanic with water filters.

I had completely overlooked it.

And the description of the grains gave me a strong indicator that it was the way.

"Filtered from seawater" and you said the answer was "in my face". It all kind of just rationally lined up.

[karmic drum]

You were on the right track. But still technically got the wrong result

[faint summit]

Yeah I know man. I'll get it eventually.

The only other thing I have faith in are the tongue lillies.

The ones I placed on a mushroom tree gave me mushroom disks so they do depend on proximity to some degree.

Still like I said, exploring that other theory gave me insight into the byproducts of every region for water filters.

Useful knowledge in its own right.

[barren oar]

though... you wouldn't have known that "organically", would you

it was through the screenshot reika sent that you'd known that, yes?

[faint summit]

Yeah, it was 🙂

Not that it mattered, I was on the wrong track and before I had already surmised that it was probably the lillies that were the method for getting them based on them being grains.

Of course I still don't even know that at this point, but it's the only avenue I have to follow.

[faint summit]

Also does anyone know why my morale keeps dropping to zero seemingly at random when I'm piloting the cyclops?

[trail ether]

did you take it through the shallows

[faint summit]

Yes

Now that you mention it, that's almost exactly when it dropped.

[trail ether]

            biomeEffect[VanillaBiomes.ALZ] = new AmbientMoraleInfluence(-5, -0.5F, -0.5F);
            biomeEffect[VanillaBiomes.ILZ] = new AmbientMoraleInfluence(-1, 0, -0.1F);
            biomeEffect[VanillaBiomes.BLOODKELP] = new AmbientMoraleInfluence(-0.75F, 0, -0.33F);
            biomeEffect[VanillaBiomes.BLOODKELPNORTH] = new AmbientMoraleInfluence(-0.8F, 0, -0.4F);
            biomeEffect[VanillaBiomes.COVE] = new AmbientMoraleInfluence(2, 2, 2);
            biomeEffect[VanillaBiomes.CRASH] = new AmbientMoraleInfluence(-2, 0, -1);
            biomeEffect[VanillaBiomes.DUNES] = new AmbientMoraleInfluence(-0.25F, 0, -0.25F);
            biomeEffect[VanillaBiomes.GRANDREEF] = new AmbientMoraleInfluence(0.25F, 0.5F, 0.5F);
            biomeEffect[VanillaBiomes.JELLYSHROOM] = new AmbientMoraleInfluence(0, -40, 1);
            biomeEffect[VanillaBiomes.SHALLOWS] = new AmbientMoraleInfluence(0.05F, -20, 0);```

middle parameter

i think you can probably guess why that is a thing, especially given the other biome doing it, though obviously biome map and physical terrain are not in perfect alignment regarding that particular root property

[errant cairn]

Hey! I have a screenshot of that! >:(

[trail ether]

???

[faint summit]

He has a screenshot of it 😠

[wispy kelp]

@trail ether hey so ever since subnautica removed the legacy branch

how do i play this

especially since it updated against my will

[errant cairn]

in #❓┃help-and-support

[wispy kelp]

#❓┃help-and-support message

this?

[faint summit]

Yes that, click the pins in the upper right corner of the screen in that channel.

This button right here.

[errant cairn]

No

[wispy kelp]

no offense im misunderstanding

[wispy kelp]

yeah i linked directly to a message

not just the channel

but i dont know which one im looking for

[errant cairn]

Not pinned, but this one: #❓┃help-and-support message

[wispy kelp]

oh cool thank yo

[unreal flame]

it was removed from the pins because we don't want to encourage people exposing themselves to malicious attacks

[wispy kelp]

wait what

@unreal flame is it safe for me to

do to run c2c

[unreal flame]

i mean, don't do anything stupid

[trail ether]

I have seen a number of people say that the vulnerability is of very limited practical impact

but also that steam forced games to update under threat of delisting, thus massively misleading people as to the severity

[unreal flame]

it means that any program can potentially use a vulnerable unity game to escalate its own privileges to that of the game

[errant cairn]

I could care less for what happens to my PC I just care if it accesses the computers on the network

[trail ether]

@trail plinth

[errant cairn]

has there been any changes to ssg before i try it and end up possibly killing myself

[trail ether]

yes

[errant cairn]

Ty

Now I'm gonna find out what happens :D

[faint summit]

ssg?

[errant cairn]

Super Seaglide

[faint summit]

You talking about an azurite battery seaglide or something else?

[karmic drum]

He's talking about an old bug/exploit which lets the seaglide reach ridiculous speeds

[faint summit]

Oh, that bug.

[faint summit]

My god the prawn suit's storage is absolutely gargantuan.

[trail ether]

depends

[barren oar]

it is

to the point it makes moving things into base storage painful

come to think of it i think there's some mod that allows automatic extraction of vehicle items? but i dont think its on legacy

[faint summit]

There is a function of FCS that allows you to do that.

Only works with vehicles docked in a moonpool.

You also need a transciever on a server rack.

[trail plinth]

Me about to load an entire map's worth of large deposits into the back of my prawn

[worldly valve]

Im one of the very few who cant really stand the prawn suit lol

[trail ether]

I just use easycraft into ingots

that pulls from docked vehicles

and cuts the items to move by a factor of 8-10, and puts them in your inventory to boot

[barren oar]

i guess that works

but its also easycraft

eh

[karmic drum]

The prawn suit is like a negative adhd buff

Sure you got the dopamine. But at what cost?

[faint summit]

I didn't know easycraft pulled from vehicles.

Maybe it's only docked ones and the cyclops.

[errant cairn]

I think I have it but idk

[worldly valve]

I love it until i get stuck on a thing

Then i find the time i was aving gets eaten and then some aa the prawn decides its too fat

[trail plinth]

Honestly havent had any issues with the prawn other than getting in and out of the blood kelp trench tbh

[worldly valve]

Its fine until a spot takes me a very frustrating 5 to 10 mins😂

I just dont like ot

Its okay with 2 grappling hooks

But then i dont have a drill to use lolol

[trail plinth]

You mean like getting stuck in a single spot, or a trip in the prawn taking 5 to 10 minutes?

[errant cairn]

Doesn't seem to appear to be any changes to SSG immediately

one reason the sea voyager was nerfed countered. i have the bp for it. I have NO idea what flags i could have skipped

[faint summit]

Being stuck in a prawn suit is nothing now that I've been stuck unable to find tungsten grains for almost a day.

[errant cairn]

im stuck on ||geyser coral||

[faint summit]

That sucks also, not having plasteel.

[errant cairn]

two of the scanner blips for it are under the map

[faint summit]

[errant cairn]

i dmed reika and she hasnt responded

[trail plinth]

Probably busy

[faint summit]

It is halloween.

Pretty sure she's also not in the same timezone as most of us.

[trail plinth]

what time is it for 'most of you'?

[karmic drum]

10:14pm. But assuming that we share a relative timezone or timezone range... is a bit presumptuous honestly

[errant cairn]

The time you sent this? 2209 or 10:09PM

[trail plinth]

it was 11:09pm for me

So not much difference with you two

[worldly valve]

Like say im in LZ, evrrything will be great and dandy...till i fuckup a jump ans get stuck on sonething stupid or in a hole. Then 5 to 10 mins later i can resume whatever i was doinh

[faint summit]

I was stating that her responses and activity here tend to be delayed. I was implying that her timezone was different from most others rather than all of 'us' being in the same timezone.

But thanks for calling me 'presumptuous'. I do like fancy words.

[unreal flame]

Reika’s timezone aligns broadly with the western hemisphere

[trail plinth]

There are various reasons why responses may be delayed that dont have to do with timezones

[trail plinth]

The active or inactive lava zone? Because in either case, the cyclops exists. There arent many areas in the ILZ that you can get stuck for that long, and i generally dont recommend doing any prawn stuff in the ALZ for fairly obvious reasons. The most ive ever gotten stuck in a hole or get caught on geometry would be like 10 seconds, so i dunno how youre being delayed 5-10 minutes from a single mistake

Again the only example i can think of that would even be remotely close to a 5 minute delay would be piloting my prawn out of the blood kelp trench, or any other highly vertical biome

But thats upwards of 500-600m of height, not just some hole or bit of terrain i got stuck on

Also in the case of not wanting to park your cyclops in the ALZ due to the sea dragon, there are places close to the containment facility that I park all the time with no issue across multiple different saves that i would assume would be viable in other peoples' saves

[worldly valve]

much agreed on cyclops

[faint summit]

MUCH AGREED

[coral dagger]

did reika change it so leviathans attack the cyclops when it's turned off?

[trail plinth]

Don't creatures attack the cyclops regardless?

[errant cairn]

No?

If the cyclops is off, even if the creature touches it, it doesnt attack it

[trail plinth]

You mean to tell me I can park my cyclops right next to a sea dragon, and as long as the engine isn't running it'll just leave the cyclops alone?

[coral dagger]

yup! at least in vanilla, and i'd be very surprised if reika changed that

well, it's the sort of thing she'd do lol

[trail ether]

I got attacked in february with one offline

[trail plinth]

Yeah ive never left my cyclops unattended near danger for very long. I left it near a crabsquid reluctantly (for reasons i will not be sharing), though apparently they dont do enough damage to outpace whatever outer membrane regen something or other the cyclops has naturally

[errant cairn]

Turned off my cyclops when the sea dragon was about to hit it and it took no damage

[trail plinth]

what the fuck

I would imagine, at the very least, if the cyclops were to become targeted by a creature while powered, and then it were to be turned off, it would still take the damage similarly to if you dock in your moonpool while being targeted by a creature

[trail ether]

there is no such "if it is depowered it cannot be damaged" logic

even in vanilla

[unreal flame]

It might be that it causes aggro loss

Meaning even if the leviathan still approaches the cyclops it would just bump into it rather than attack

[faint summit]

^ The cyclops is not considered a valid target if the engine is off, (at least in the 2025 build).

A fireball from a seadragon hitting it would still cause some damage.

You can park one in the crater edge and turn the engine off and test it for yourself.

Although that might be the exception.

[trail ether]

invalidating it for target selection does not remove it as a target in LastTarget, MeleeAttack, and similar

[faint summit]

Yes, they will still get an attack off if you were already detected beforehand.

[errant cairn]

Yeah

I recall something about that

Got occasionally hit after turning my Cyclops off like after 30 seconds when the creature finally hit me

But they would immediately lose aggression after

[errant cairn]

I looked back at this, interesting you would think I would perform a man-in-the-middle attack (which i wouldnt do even with knowledge of legacy patching)

[trail ether]

that is what most people building downloaders do

[errant cairn]

Ah okay
Now it makes more sense why you said that

I'd be willing to let you decompile the source (once I'm free enough finish it) to check yourself if you want, but the source will be on GitHub anyway

Do you have code for this?

I'm sure I'll understand it :)

[exotic apex]

Where is/are the best place(s) to keep up to date on Reika's mods for other games, since I assume she isn't using this channel as a general discussion on anything but Sea2Sea

[trail ether]

i am fine with it happening occasionally but yes I do not want to derail the channel

and to answer the question more directly that is what my discord used to be for

but now there is not really a place

[exotic apex]

darn

[unreal flame]

this could be fixed by at worst telling a few people to reign themselves in or hit the bricks

[exotic apex]

If only moderation were so simple

[unreal flame]

it really is

if someone sucks, they get to hit the bricks. if their vibes are off, they hit the bricks. if it just doesn't feel right when they're around? you guessed it, they hit the bricks.

especially so in a small-server situation

not so much here but i've definitely nuked a fair share of people who just post edgy memes and nothing else, for instance

[exotic apex]

Trust me, I'm a mod in a server with 1400 people, we have a rule like that, scenarios still occur

[karmic drum]

https://tenor.com/view/marvel-avengers-finally-someone-who-speaks-english-captain-america-tony-stark-gif-17147260

[karmic drum]

they hit the bricks

[exotic apex]

They do

[unreal flame]

i'm not saying there won't be, but it by no means ever has to be the modus operandi

as long as the vibes are sufficient 90% of the time, it's fine

[exotic apex]

It's just that even with rules like that, it can still easily get very overwhelming for some

[unreal flame]

not denying that, it's just less prevalent (and that's really all reika's server needs)

[faint summit]

Good thing we're all perfectly sane here.

[exotic apex]

Are you sure about that?

[faint summit]

No

[faint summit]

My sanity has deteriorated rapidly from looking for tungsten grains though, I think a fourth of my play time has been spent looking for them.

[trail ether]

https://github.com/ReikaKalseki/GameCalendar

[trail ether]

way more than a few

and do i need to remind you that three times that number basically said if i so much as hinted that i was considering that that they would not only leave but see to it that i lost everything

[errant cairn]

I'm almost shocked I haven't been kicked out. Until recently it was very easy to get me to be mean

[errant cairn]

Tysm

[trail plinth]

I could make more of an effort to help with moderating people, as long as I have clear enough guidelines

[faint summit]

Oh my goodness, I just found out something cool about the plankton feeder.

I'm not going to say what it is, but it's a BIG deal.

[errant cairn]

Do those people actually hold that power over you?

[errant cairn]

Anyone with common sense can do that

[exotic apex]

Oh, is the discord still up? I kinda figured it was closed

Just from the way it was spoken about

[errant cairn]

No I mean from here, but it's "still up." However it's not open invite iirc

[exotic apex]

ah

[errant salmon]

They hit the bricks or get hit by bricks

[trail ether]

they have the power to harm me yes

via a mix of having a large following, being highly capable software developers, and/or connections with people who are ultimately gatekeepers to things

[unreal flame]

I can’t think of anyone these categories apply to aside from “software developer”

[errant cairn]

dang

[faint summit]

I ate a lanternshroom and then went to bed. There were nonstop barfing sounds.

I can't stop laughing.

Or barfing

[errant salmon]

my favorite things in c2c are them glass kelp

idk their name but they are pretty

[faint summit]

The deepvine?

Yeah they are a sight.

So is the biome they're from.

[trail ether]

that is about how it goes for me if i eat spicy food too

[unreal flame]

are you saying that you'd be able to make some insane mushroom recipes with it if you had a spice tolerance

[faint summit]

I found the grains btw.

There has to be a faster way, or you just expect us to mass plant those things.

I still never figured out what you were alluding to that catalyzed their growth.

[barren oar]

no shame in just scaling up

as i understand it, its supposed to be a process you start from very, very early on such that you probably wont have issues 30 hours later

[faint summit]

Well I planted the things, but I did so at my home base, it's not like I just ignored them.

But they never accumulated any minerals there, even though it said they were.

In the sparse reef.

And since they weren't required for the advanced material in question, I never even knew they existed, except from the heatsink recipe.

But now of course you need these to even make the fancy stuff.

[barren oar]

maybe you should read up on their databank entry?

oh wait

you know how they work already right

[faint summit]

Yes

[barren oar]

okay cool sorry

yeah so just scale up lol

[faint summit]

Not in detail, if there is something to speed them up then I'm all ears.

[barren oar]

2x amount of plants => 2x rate

[faint summit]

: )\

thanks

[barren oar]

afaik thats really all you can do

[faint summit]

It especially sucks because this isn't the first time I've extracted from the batch I had.

They only gave me things I already had.

[barren oar]

unlucky

[faint summit]

So it took me several hours to get even one.

[barren oar]

by the by, how does your setup look

[faint summit]

Well I haven't expanded yet, there's only one plot full of them on the branch of a mushroom tree.

I only found out that this was the right way to get them at about 11 last night.

[barren oar]

you might want to try experimenting with how many plants you have right next to each other

[faint summit]

Oh no, are there diminishing returns?

[barren oar]

illogically, yes

conveniently, one of c2c's dependencies does offer a solution that does not mean you have to spend two hours circling an entire biome when collecting the loot

i think that is all i can say without stating it outright

speaking of, @trail ether why is it so, anyway? (see immediately prior ^ conversation)
the way i see it, its unexplained - even contrary to what's explained/shown, since you naturally find them in clusters -, illogical and its not even true, in-universe speaking - it only takes into account [metric]

you'd think less generation <=> less food but they're clearly doing well in their natural habitat

oh cool a 2 minute message difference separated them

[trail ether]

and 2x <desirable effect early game>

[barren oar]

is <desirable effect early game> dependent on how many there are? i thought it was basically just a flag

[trail ether]

the diminishing returns only becomes meaningful after having more than you find in a natural cluster

and it is to prevent building a single growbed with 12 and cheesing it, like I saw people doing

[trail ether]

yes?

they all work independently

[barren oar]

...how is that cheesing it

scaling up by having more of X in an area is the foundation of agriculture

at least in the context of subnautica

[trail ether]

but building one ridiculously powerful version of something and then ignoring the mechanic afterwards is nearly the definition of cheesing it

[barren oar]

oh i thought you were saying the effect is more desirable if theres more plants in a given area

not that the desirable effect could cover more area

[trail ether]

it is equivalent to getting 12x increased drops from a large resource deposit and then not needing to bother with any more

technically you have not changed the set of things you have done

but one instance of harvesting has become so much more powerful that the mechanic is then negated thereafter

[barren oar]

and putting down 9 single planters, or however many fit in a vanilla growbed's size, is not the same thing... how?

i guess its a higher resource cost but you have the friendly neighbour right next door thats always willing to share what you need for this challenge in particular

[trail ether]

that is also cheesing it

that is just not really preventable

[barren oar]

a simple distance check against player-planted [plants] when a single planter is constructed really shouldnt be that bad

especially if they're async-ed somewhat

e.g. first 3 plants check first, then 5 frames after, the next 3 plants do, then...

and its clearly not a worry for vanilla planters since they're so big you can realistically make the case why they wouldn't interfere with each other, in that scenario

i guess the biggest worry would be making that intermod talking since the planters and plants are from two different mods

actually you've got dragonindustries thats not a concern i think

and/or the mod message system but i dont know if thats in sml or newly added in nautilus

[faint summit]

I will say, the passive income of mushroom disks is kind of nice.

[barren oar]

income? c2c adds economy?

[faint summit]

Yes, it also adds an exchange rate.

I exchange my time, to have my balls busted by this wonderful mod.

Tbf, the tungsten grains were the only thing that went wrong the entire playthrough.

[errant cairn]

Position counts

[barren oar]

as in, biome?

because between-plant position certainly does not

[barren oar]

i do now realise my idea is flawed in that it generates a lot of garbage

but doing this check when [plant] fully grows i think would work

[errant cairn]

iirc incorrect based on what I saw in someone else's game

[errant cairn]

correct. e.g. im gaining [stuff] in the [red grass biome] but you can also gain [stuff] in places where [the material that the plants accumulate] naturally spawns like the [disk biome] or sparce reef

[barren oar]

the code is open for anyone to view dawg

[barren oar]

yeah that makes sense

[errant cairn]

which reminds me i really need to get some plants near my other entrances while i am immune to it i just don't want a lightshow inside my base

[barren oar]

...they can spawn in the sparse reef?

[errant cairn]

i don't remember but i actually think its the biome with a shit ton of bone sharks next to the crash zone

i know they spawn there

but @trail plinth do the ||plankton|| spawn around your main base in your save (if your main base is in the sparse reef)?

[barren oar]

crag fields? you sure?

[errant cairn]

yes it was my main source of getting it for a while

[barren oar]

i dont remember seeing them at all there

could be a new change

[errant cairn]

doubt it

I did it months ago

like before morale was even thought of

[barren oar]

im certain you've last played earlier than i did

lemme see

[errant cairn]

was like a few days ago last i played

maybe a week i dont remember

[errant cairn]

yes but i also haven't beaten C2C yet. im scared to look then spoil myself immediately

[barren oar]

i think its like 4-5 months since ive last played

[barren oar]

that is completely fair

[errant cairn]

i think it existed back in January

iirc

[barren oar]

for the record, however, this plant is an ecocean addition

[errant cairn]

maybe it was march or something

[barren oar]

whose source is still open to view

[errant cairn]

either way same deal

[barren oar]

ye ye

[karmic drum]

We've had the discussion about how relying on code alone can cause misconceptions

[barren oar]

indeed

however, the sole field that's used for calculating efficiency is private, therefore it can only be changed in the single place its changed within the class

(assuming there is no reflection on self-written classes used, but that is just stupid and dumb design)

[errant cairn]

Harmony patch (i know, not the point)

[barren oar]

however, that still leads into the reflection argument

[errant cairn]

ah

[barren oar]

harmony doesn't offer java-style mixins with the @Shadow field annotation that allow "duplicating" a field and manipulating it however, you have to access it through reflection (whether that is "raw" or through AccessTools which hides the process from you)

[errant cairn]

i have no idea what @Shadow is

[trail ether]

??

[barren oar]

are they not?

i thought small planters were AE

[trail ether]

that is the primary location

[trail ether]

with this being a popular second

[barren oar]

huh?? not mushroom forest??

??????

i have not once seen them spawn anywhere but the tree

[trail ether]

oh right

but those are just clones of vanilla with a different build condition

[faint summit]

We're talking about tongue lillies not phytoplankton

[trail ether]

the Planter is pure vanilla

[barren oar]

ah, yes

[trail ether]

oh

[faint summit]

Also can the lillies generate anything in the sparse reef, they say they're accumulating minerals but they never do anything.

[trail ether]

their drop table does not depend on biome

only on interaction

[errant cairn]

I meant their location matters in the accumulation of material

[faint summit]

I mean they need to be in very certain conditions to generate anything so how could they even work in other biomes.

[errant cairn]

They should work in every biome the material that they collect spawns in plus [red grass biome]

I don't think they work in [purple mushroom cave]

[faint summit]

They only grow in one biome.

[errant cairn]

True, but you can break and plant them in those biomes