SeaToSea

[errant cairn]

Hell maybe I'll make the module fridge

[trail plinth]

A fridge/vehicle upgrade that acts as a fridge would be interesting, but I don't think it would really do too much since all of the plant-based foods yield so little nutrition and take up so much space compared to cured fish anyway that I don't think it'd be worth it

[errant cairn]

Nah I use to keep morale at its current place

[trail plinth]

I mean I suppose? Though if you're losing morale, food bonuses only give you a small buffer since morale really matters more if it's increasing or decreasing over time

[errant cairn]

Its a buffer enough for me

[trail plinth]

So even if you get 20 morale from food, if you're in a spot that loses morale gradually that's only going to be a buffer. Which isn't useless in and of itself of course

[errant cairn]

Well yea at that point I'll use ssg to avoid being there long

[trail plinth]

Even in my main seabase, I only have one room that doesn't drain my morale and I don't spend a lot of time there outside of reading through my pda on a bench

[errant cairn]

Interesting

[trail plinth]

And I usually don't struggle with morale. Often times my morale is higher when I get back to my base and lower when I leave it lmfao

And I think I have almost every single permanent morale drain modifier available above 550m

[karmic drum]

Multipurpose room, indoor growbed, and comfortable large locker acess

Let's go

[karmic drum]

Damn. I'm having the worst luck with creature agro this run

I made a pipeline almost 200m into the degasi base cause I don't have my moth yet, I'm not using a second tank, and I wanted a bed

And that crabsnake right below the entrance really didn't like me

Almost died resurfacing cause I couldn't use the pipe on the way up

[errant cairn]

Like the air pipes?

[karmic drum]

Ye

[errant cairn]

Huh. Ok

[karmic drum]

Bro was on me like white on rice

[trail plinth]

lmaoooooo

I had one almost get stuck between the plates below the jellyshrooms trying to get me

[karmic drum]

On the plus side... I now have a bed. And can start constructing a semblance of a bedroom

[unreal flame]

It’s literally a genetically engineered earth potato

I should be able to make French fries from Chinese potatoes and lubricant

reika you should also let me do this in Rotarycraft with potatoes and canola oil

Honestly it could actually be really interesting to have food processing in rotarycraft

[trail plinth]

I don't think I've read the pda entry for chinese potato plants in years

[karmic drum]

Okay. Well I have a bedroom technically but it's not dedicated enough to be a neutral or positive morale space just yet

[trail plinth]

100% agree, though I would imagine it would be better to be an addon to it than native, since food variety in most modded situations isn't useful or pratical, and moreso just plays to add more food 'decor' than any gameplay advantage. Buffs based on the foods would be nice, but the problem then becomes that food replaces potions

[karmic drum]

Yall use potions in Minecraft?

[trail plinth]

lmao no

[karmic drum]

Was about to say

Can count on my fingers and toes how many times I've found a potion useful

[trail plinth]

I'm more likely to use them in modded depending on the accessibility and relative power of the potions (botania is nice for potion making, also adds unique effects). Chromaticraft is a good example of me being more likely to use potions because it adds some good stuff and makes it easier to make the potions

The main downside of vanilla-style potions imo is the tradeoff between duration and effect strength, the tradeoff not being present in the prior examples makes it far more appealing

[worldly valve]

Why not just use wall lockers?

They are just straight bettwr

Since no cost to base integrity

Not to.mentoon they now are super in the way of walking around the base

I imagine a certain area is gonna be truly awful

As i cant see that area being anything but permanent 0 morale

And to the extrenely stupid co.ment about how im not liking c2c and i dont have to pkay

It was one 100% rng mechanics which i dont like as its also very skill based being the falling debris

And the other mechanic thats dumb is morale

As it slows down play experience while adding literally nothing

Other then i guess a decorating mini game?

Which is really just an arbitrary guessing game on things that might look nice as per reikas bias

Reika aparently thinks rooms fulk of planrs cannot make people happy which is funny

As plants are far more likely to make someone happy then say

Idk

A fucking poster

(A poster that is specigically designed to make one feel awful about themselves)

When in real life

Being in a room of plants

Would make

Anyone

Feel better

[errant cairn]

Except me ig

Unless they were all pretty and free

[worldly valve]

Most plants are prettier than keep calm posrer designed to make you feel low morale

[errant cairn]

Nuh uh

The keep calm kitty poster is at least cute

[worldly valve]

Its clesrly designed to make workers feel garbage about themselves

[errant cairn]

And I like the look of the Prawn Water poster

[worldly valve]

That pne couod have positive ffexts

Keep calm tho?

[errant cairn]

Well I've never been a worker but it improves my motivation and morale

[worldly valve]

That should be a massive morale negative

I nean even context wise

[errant cairn]

I mean sure

[trail plinth]

Alright you're doing it again, so let's break this down a bit. In both cases, either the poster being more or less morale-boosting than 'a room full of plants' would be justifiable. The posters are one-of-a-kind items, though you could argue that there being 2-3 separate posters would make them less unique but the point is there are very few of them available in the game as a whole, therefore having any number of them can be justified to give a higher morale bonus because they cannot be spammed. Which brings me to 'a room full of plants'. If the plants are diverse, ie not spamming the same type of plant a bunch of times, they are going to provide a decent amount of morale. I don't know which is the case, both in terms of the morale value of posters, and what kinds of plants you're referring to filling a room, but in either case it is justifiable from a game balance perspective due to the 'anti-spam' mechanics relevant to preventing the circumvention of mechanics through 'doing the same thing but a lot'

[errant cairn]

In Alterra case

[worldly valve]

Alterra put it there to be unhelpful

[errant cairn]

Where tf do you find the keep calm kitty poster before the aurora? I've probably explored it (dm me)

[trail plinth]

In the real world? Yeah lots of the same plant can be nice and beautiful and boost morale. Same with posters. People can like different things. But this is not real life, this is a mod for a video game, and it has to consider balancing issues that aren't present in real life

[worldly valve]

It dhouod give an automativ 0 in the room tbh

The keep calm poster should definitely be a negative

[trail plinth]

One of the degasi bases iirc, but don't quote me on that I don't actually remember

[worldly valve]

As it would make all people feel worse in all scenarios

[errant cairn]

Hm

What about the prawn water one?

[worldly valve]

You mean srbitrary gueasing on things that might look gkkd

Good

Because that is all one can do with morale

Is jusy blindly guess with absolutely no certainty or idea that it will help

Everything else in this mod is very objective and about thinkong things through

But this is a purely

Subjective

Mechanic

There is nothing objectove about what looks good

Its all

"This poster gives a +10 if you see one, but -50 if you see 2"

And there is no reasonable way to fogure it out with thought

Looks are purely 100% subjective and have no place in a puzzle mod

[errant cairn]

This is a bs argument

[worldly valve]

This isnt a bs arguemnt

[errant cairn]

Im just gonna flat out say it

[worldly valve]

One cannot know what will help with moral at all

Does a shelf with a markplier help ?

Or is it neutral

You literally cannot know

[errant cairn]

It should. But a desk doesn't

[worldly valve]

See exsctly my point

Its random

[trail plinth]

The bonus from multiple of the same decor thing is dimishing returns, not a negative modifier to it

[worldly valve]

Its purely 100% random

[errant cairn]

Per person sure

[trail plinth]

Also the youtuber dolls provide a negative morale bonus iirc, or don't provide one at all

[worldly valve]

Wat

[errant cairn]

God dammit

[worldly valve]

Wat

[errant cairn]

I've had one on a desk this whole time

[worldly valve]

See this is wjat i mean

There is no puzzle to this

[trail plinth]

You mean trial and error?

[worldly valve]

Looks and designez and 100% subjective things that are not thr same person to person

[trail plinth]

And the accumulation of positive decor through various means?

[worldly valve]

Espeically becauze morale is tied directly to movement speed

[errant cairn]

Except when you try multiple things like I do you have no idea whats going on 😭

[trail plinth]

You not using a room info panel?

[worldly valve]

Arbitrarily putitng stuff in places until thennumber bonus says good

[errant cairn]

Seaglide movement speed*

[errant cairn]

nrn

[worldly valve]

That just telps younthe room type you are in

Which you are also told in thr top left of screen

[trail plinth]

oh yeah there's a popup nvm

[worldly valve]

If its improved thatd be near

But also before room info panel killed specializing

It worked against whatever room type you had

[worldly valve]

Thats basically movement speed😐

Most of the game is swimming around, rven if you are using a moth one foes not swim outside a moth

One uses seaglide

But there would be no reasonable wya to assume the dolls dont give a bonus

But its just a weird mechanic

It has no place in a survival game

Wby iryley worried about level 4 of maslows hierchy so much lol

Toud think survival mode would kick in

[trail plinth]

I really don't know what else to tell you. I have a negative morale base minus one room, I'm in a biome that negatively impacts my morale, and I've played during an update where htere was a bug that forced morale to drop substantially faster than normal, and I haven't had nearly as negative as an experience you've been describing. I've also done a lot of trial and error, because despite Reika being present for my playthrough, she doesn't tell me anything because she wants me to figure it out myself, and for the most part I have had very few negative experiences during my time playing

[worldly valve]

Its probabk becaus i have a non bricked mid game file

But morale basically loves at 20

I can use food to boost it up tp 100

But it drops to 0 in about 120 seconds

Reika claims that was impossoble

But i fucking had a timer on so

She frequently insists things work properly when the community probes they dont

[trail plinth]

She insists that they should be working in a particular way, and that anything outside of that would likely be considered a bug

[worldly valve]

Did you see the mega rpject i had to make to get reika to re look at the change before moral

No she insists that they are working

To get her to look at a mehca ic

You need to basically figure it 100% out, even if its not working, and then present an extremely airtight scenario of the problem

Things i got her to look at before

Blood crawlwrs

[trail plinth]

I've had little issue getting her to look at problems I've encountered, even when she was not present or for other mods/games, and given your demeanor I don't blame her for not really listening to you

[worldly valve]

Tongue lillies(someone else also got her to do major looking, i had to do a mega project inbolving about 100ish foundations on a base put at different levels of a stacked tower base with lots of

Morale doesnt add a damn thing to the experience

Its not a puzzle

Its just a game of dress up

[trail plinth]

Case in point

[worldly valve]

And it would take literal hours of testing to get solid data

[trail plinth]

You don't like a thing, and therefore it's bad and not worth being in the game

[worldly valve]

Esepcialy because morale is super slow

So you jabr to make a room

Then wait about 30 minites

But really to get actual data

You habe to make 1 ot 2 xhanges

Then wait 30 minutes

[trail plinth]

What are you on about? waiting 30 minutes for what?

[worldly valve]

Morale levels tp level put

To see how much of an impact each change had

[trail plinth]

Again I don't know what's going on with your save, but if your morale is plummeting regularly then that's either not intended, or you're doing something wrong. You can see the decor bonus of a room, so trial and error can very clearly be seen in real time without having to wait 30 minutes as you're claiming

You can measure the increase and decrease in decor every time you build something new or deconstruct something because it'll reload the base and have it recalculated

[worldly valve]

Does moral have a beneffit to keep above 80

Or is it.purpey punishing if you are below 50

[trail plinth]

I have no idea, I haven't asked. I haven't noticed much issue until below 20 morale

[worldly valve]

I notive them always

[errant cairn]

Same

[worldly valve]

And morale sits at 20

Its shit

Its garbage

[errant cairn]

I'm not even going to participate in this argument

[errant cairn]

U gotta git gud

[worldly valve]

And again it adds noyhing to thr game experience

[trail plinth]

20 is the resting point of morale, with various factors influencing its rates of increase/decrease

[errant cairn]

Decor

[worldly valve]

It just means i have to guess at what items havr decoartation

[worldly valve]

As i said, nothing

[trail plinth]

One of the previous updates had the pressure to return morale to 20 be too aggressive, and has since been changed

[errant cairn]

I don't really like games that require deco, because normally they're implemented horribly, Reika implemented it properly

[worldly valve]

Ny creating a mechanic that only have negatives to the player?

Again

The benches in silks9ng that try to kill you

Are a kinda game design

[errant cairn]

Maybe there should be some bonus but I still like the idea

[trail plinth]

Hunger and thirst already exist, and you die if you mismanage them

[worldly valve]

At least they visually warn you

[trail plinth]

Morale is far less punishing, and acts as an additional layer to the experience of surviving without killing you directly for mismanaging it

[worldly valve]

It directly killed me multiple times

It kills.move speed

[trail ether]

there are

is Para still mouthing off and making shit up

[trail plinth]

Going slow doesn't kill you. Doing something that requires higher speeds or has a time crunch while you're on low morale will kill you. And that's based on your decision to do that thing

[worldly valve]

Goes slow is a death sentence

[trail plinth]

I don't think I've died a single time to being too slow due to low morale

[worldly valve]

Once you hit slow you are fucked

You wont get back anywhere

[errant cairn]

@trail ether I do suggest a deco expansion however. Lmk if it's viable or not

[trail plinth]

Not really no, unless you lose all your morale while you're low on oxygen and can't make it back, but if you deliberately go out and do something dangerous, and then die due to being too slow, that's on you

[errant cairn]

Yes

[errant cairn]

Same

Well

[worldly valve]

Low morale increased how fast your food and water go down

Water espeicslly

If you jabe low moral water hits 0 in like 10 mins

Even less tbh

Its more important to decorate yout base than it is to eat

[trail plinth]

I've described my experiences with water consumption already, but to reiterate: I was stubborn and insisted on making disinfected water, and kept waiting until I was running out of water to go make more

I really don't understand how you jump to these conclusions. Not eating will kill you. low morale will accelerate the rate at which other things will kill you

In both cases eating is more important

Same with water

[worldly valve]

Low.morale means death in less than 10 mins

[trail plinth]

?????

[karmic drum]

No it doesn't

[worldly valve]

Yes it does

[karmic drum]

I've been low morale-

[worldly valve]

You cant do anytbing with low.morale

[trail plinth]

If you decide not to drink water yeah? But that means you just decided not to drink water?

Honestly, skill issue

[worldly valve]

You lose more than 20 over 2 mins

[karmic drum]

Nope... I'm gonna put my needs firdt. And ignore this chat

[trail plinth]

If you think you cannot do anything on low morale, and that you're having such a hard time functioning on low morale despite all of the evidence to the contrary, it's entirely a you problem

[trail ether]

I see that the answer to my earlier question is yes

Para you are driving away people from the channel

if you do not stop this shit right now I will have you removed from the channel

this is your one and only warning

do not test me

[errant cairn]

There is one exception where I was low on water in the mountains and I couldn't get back in time to consume water so I warped back

[trail plinth]

I've already tried to get a reasonable conversation with you before so I'm just not gonna bother anymore, it's clear you're just trying to pass off your personal experience as a universal constant and justifying badmouthing the mod/mod author with that

[errant cairn]

Good

[trail plinth]

Honestly it's at least partially my fault for engaging with this

[errant cairn]

You were defending Reika's system. You are not to blame

If you are to blame in this case, then I am too.

[karmic drum]

No you're not. If you are then so am I.

[errant cairn]

Does Reika still own her server?

Or did she delete it?

[karmic drum]

Like all I'm here to do is game and have fun... not listening to constant baseless bad mouthing

[trail plinth]

I appreciate it, though my point was that I recognize it wasn't necessary for me to jump in and try to argue with them

[karmic drum]

If anything the push back on your part was positive

You kept it clean and factual

[trail ether]

I largely abandoned it for a few reasons

[karmic drum]

And highlighted the problem

[trail ether]

one of the longer-term ones was a massive shift in people's behavior to be like Para

mostly aimed at the MC mods, as that is what the server started as

but there were TONS of multi-hour arguments about ChromatiCraft, always involving the same people

with people saying largely similar things to what Para was about this or that mechanic being pointless bullshit that just punishes the player, making up alleged motivations or behaviors, and generally railing against core design principles because they personally do not like them, but always characterizing their position as the only defensible one, with any defense on my part - or those agreeing with me - being dismissed as in bad faith (or if others, as sycophants)

that shit started in summer of 2019, but got a LOT worse over 2020-2022

by the end of 2022 almost anyone remotely sympathetic had either been "converted" - there were a few people who made it their mission to do that, and to poison the well for any new players (and not just on my server) by feeding them an endless stream of bullshit - or had largely left the server (either literally or just never looking at it again, like I did)

[errant cairn]

Ah okay

That sucks

this community isnt any better

[trail ether]

there were other factors

three other main factors

[errant cairn]

Well ig its slightly better but I think its for a multitude of different reasons

[trail ether]

the one most closely related to the mods is arguments about code and licensing

I made a graphic a few weeks ago that largely characterizes these people, one moment

https://i.imgur.com/x9RiQTD.png

[errant cairn]

Ah. Yep. Sounds about right. Nautilus/SMLHelper had the same problem.

[trail ether]

they belong in the middle

[karmic drum]

Unfortunately it's not a community problem. It's a basic human psychology and entitlement problem

[trail ether]

many of those text blocks are literal quotes or paraphrases thereof from these people on my server

two people in particular

[errant cairn]

Bottom left middle quote made me laugh

[errant cairn]

L

[trail ether]

but the net result of this is that I was constantly being shit on left right and center

either or both because of my licensing - there were a lot of arguments about how evil I was for not releasing under a copyleft license and daring to tell people what they can do - or because the code gurus loved to nitpick code I wrote and act like I was - or outright call me - incompetent or dangerous or whatever

[karmic drum]

People have this ugly predisposition to think that they have a right to be right about things. Even if they have no ground to stand on.

[trail ether]

constantly

[errant cairn]

That entire graphic is just absurd. On the people who sent the stuff in the quotes

[trail ether]

anyway the next thing, and the next most related, is one of larger software topics, namely how those same people as in issue #2 did not at all appreciate my "programming is a means to an end and I only care about the end result" attitude

often to a hypocritical degree

for example one of the inciting incidents in summer of 2019 was when I was working on a Stellaris event builder application

[karmic drum]

Worse off is the bizarre offense to being wrong. Or thinking that something or someone else is the problem because they don't work the way you think they did or should

[trail ether]

since I was most familiar with Java, I was going to do it in Java, and the only obvious choice for UI was Swing

one of these people railed hard to get me to choose JavaFX instead, which I was very reluctant to do because I could not make heads or tails of its documentation - it was (and still is!) both incredibly difficult to set up, at least "properly" - and the documentation is written for CS majors who know all the lingo and design patterns

[errant cairn]

When they realize everyone thinks they're wrong, they wanna save face, but yes

[trail ether]

my reluctance basically made me a persona non grata in his eyes

then, ironically, I turned out to love JFX

and I have been using it for applications ever since

[karmic drum]

That's fucked up...

[trail ether]

however

[karmic drum]

This part

Not the resr

[trail ether]

since then that same person has shit all over me for continuing to use it

because now it is old and there are new things

[karmic drum]

Or you loving tur software I mean

[trail ether]

pay no attention to the fact that JFX serves my needs just fine, and that i need not spend three months learning something new just because

[errant cairn]

On Today's episode of "That's Fucked Up." This is fucked up

[trail ether]

the other main "software guru" person also finds this mindset contemptible, and takes every opportunity to express that

[karmic drum]

You know... living with nuerodivergence might be a daily battle against invisible agony... but it's shit behavior like this that makes me glad I'm not "normal"

[errant cairn]

That's absurd esp considering I do the same damn thing. Why fix it if it works and fits my needs?

[trail ether]

also side note the first person outright lied to me about the licensing JFX uses, to try and trick me into releasing my projects as FOSS

and when i called his bluff - years later, when i found the truth - he went ballistic

[karmic drum]

WHAT

[errant cairn]

Same. I might be "normal" anyway but I'm smart as fuck.

[trail ether]

accused me of trying to subvert licenses and corrupt things

[trail plinth]

yeah some of the people in that discord are/were absolutely wild

[errant cairn]

Find out more on tomorrow's episode of "That's Fucked Up."!

[karmic drum]

You're not neurotypical. You just need proper diagnosis

[errant cairn]

Kekw maybe

[trail ether]

hint: rainbow shadows and green C++

anyway

[karmic drum]

I'm glad I don't know...

[trail plinth]

I'll be completely honest I have no idea what that means lmao

[trail ether]

finally the fourth reason I left, and the one that finally tipped things over the edge

[errant cairn]

Huh? What does this mean? (I took 2 coding classes in C++)

[trail plinth]

oh nvm

I do

[trail ether]

well

[errant cairn]

What does it mean

[trail ether]

my server had a #politics channel

[trail plinth]

someone's profile picture lmfao

[trail ether]

this was largely fine, 99% of hte time

[errant cairn]

Oh

[trail ether]

people were generally civil and noone was horrible, with even our worst person being...bad but never outright insane or hateful, at least without digging

[errant cairn]

There's always a 1%

[trail ether]

however

who here follows political news circa january and feb 2025, in particular regarding US-CA relations

actually i will spell it out

[errant cairn]

Plz do cause I didn't follow it

[trail ether]

end of january was when the whole "51st state" bullshit started

[trail plinth]

oh god

[errant cairn]

Oh

No

[trail ether]

I cannot convey in text how massively offensive that is here

however

most of my server is americans

[karmic drum]

You don't need to... I can already see it

😭

[errant cairn]

Have you heard of an SF streamer named ImKibitz?

[trail ether]

and even the americans who are not politically aligned with the orange shithead are largely apathetic

[karmic drum]

For a bonus episode of "that's fucked up" that's fucked up

[trail ether]

this resulted in everything I posted on the matter being blown off

at best as "no big deal, silly man says silly things"

but much more often as American Exceptionalism bullshit that acts like being offended is itself offensive

that it is the height of offense to dare suggest being american would be a downgrade

moreover, and this is what was the final nail in the coffin, there is real fear here that the initiative will turn militaristic if his economic pressure fails to achieve the goal

[errant cairn]

Even in his sub-only (twitch/patreon) discord server there was anti-trump politics completely allowed. And most supported him

[trail ether]

I expressed this as well, and posted multiple news articles about it

[karmic drum]

This unfortunately is more of a people thing than an American thing... but we Americans are exceptionally bad at it.

[trail ether]

I was always ridiculed or yelled at for it

one person in particular got extremely pissy any time you dared imply that american servicemembers were anything but faultless paragons of virtue who would never countenance such an order

[errant cairn]

As a P.S of "That's Fucked Up." That's fucked up

[trail ether]

the kind of reaction i was getting was both the character and intensity you might expect to get if you, for example, expressed support for pedophilia

that kind of outraged "WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU"

[errant cairn]

Aka the entirety of the Roblox community

(Roblox is/was being called a safe haven for pedos)

[trail ether]

plus a healthy addition of, again, dismissal

those of you who had overbearing parents who never took anything you said seriously, and who unironically said things like that kids' opinions do not matter, know the kind of dismissal i mean

[karmic drum]

Your words cut deep... deeper than any blade 😭

I know that pain better than most should

[errant cairn]

Oh I think I do but I never had overbearing parents I'm an only child

[trail ether]

ultimately this culminated in a series of argumetns at the beginning of march, resulting in a number of people leaving the server in disgust, often with some very nasty parting words about how awful I was as a person

[karmic drum]

Still deal with it as an adult with autism and adhd. Even worse now that I'm unmasking it.

[trail ether]

a day or two after that I decided i did not need this shit anymore, and muted the server

and this is what resulted https://i.imgur.com/jI0S64r.png

[karmic drum]

I don't even have a joke for this one...

That's just fucked up

[trail ether]

I used to dread logging on to discord, waiting to see what shit had accumulated for me to deal with

or at least slog through

i even said this, repeatedly, on that srever

along with how i had had multiple cases of ignoring a compulsion to entirely close the server

going all the way back to 2019

[errant cairn]

I'll admit it.

The people I meet in General VC in this server

Hate your guts

For your mod and the blocking system

And for the fact you ignored them because "she says it works on her end and just ignores my points"

(Paraphrased but thats most of what I heard)

2 modding friends I've talked two are at least annoyed with the mod blocking system

One is just like "at what point do you just block all mods
Nautilus too"

[trail ether]

what

[errant cairn]

The other went on a rant

[karmic drum]

Well I can tell you with zero context....

[errant cairn]

This is from what I've heard. Apparently its from a long time ago

[karmic drum]

This is bullshit claims

[errant cairn]

Oh no I know

[errant cairn]

Probably during the modpocalapse tbh

Or earlier

[karmic drum]

People will say whatever they need to

To feel better about themselves

Without ever looking inward first...

[pearl pier]

since I have to play a new save atleast this time ill know where the battery is instead of managing to miss it 3 seperate times while passing through its location

[errant cairn]

Lol

[karmic drum]

Okay. Today's goals? Magnetite and a bioreactor

I wanna say getting my bedroom up to positive or break even morale. But I feel like that's gonna take a bit

[karmic drum]

You get morale by using the scanner room cameras....

That fucking dope

Now I just need to get the attenuation antenna to actually work

[karmic drum]

Hold on. I might mistook that for something else

[barren oar]

probably did

morale from cameras make no sense lol

[karmic drum]

yea I defo did. still can't get that antenna to work though. I've gotta be missing and extra step beyond just having it on my base

[barren oar]

wasn't it that it doesn't increase the range of cameras, but that it allows you to use a camera whose origin is the base it's built on, from a remote scanner room?

admittedly i never used it, since i don't see any value in scanner cameras

oh well the description would certainly imply its the former...

[karmic drum]

no. I'm looking on the AE page right now and it says it elimenates distance both there and in game

unless it's been changed since then

[barren oar]

maybe you need to activate it with the control panel?

just a guess

[karmic drum]

that's what I was going to try next lol

I forgot the control panel was thing until I was reading the mod page

[barren oar]

that's fair lol

you don't need it for the truly useful machines

[karmic drum]

Except I don't seem to know how to make it yet?

Huh

Oh well

[barren oar]

huh?

[karmic drum]

Wait

No

I'm blind

[barren oar]

gg

[karmic drum]

yea I def don't know how to use this thing xD

both it and the antenna are installed

but it's just sitting there blank

[barren oar]

i think it shouldve just shown up

if you install a stasis pulser it should show up and allow you to turn it on/off through the control panel

so if it shows up then ye the attenuation machiner isn't interactable through the panel

[errant cairn]

@trail ether !!! #🐟┃private-general message

actually this is no direct cause for concern yet

But i still feel you should know abt it

Idk actually

For those without access, UWE released a security update to SN and BZ that might remove all branches. March 2023 and Legacy in steam

[barren oar]

why not just ping her about it there lol

[errant cairn]

True

Mb ig

[unreal flame]

Oh shit, that is pretty dire

[errant cairn]

Guess we have to wait at least 2 days for C2C update?

[barren oar]

that said, i've been trying to make sense just how this vulnerability can be abused

[errant cairn]

Idek, but good on then either way right?

[barren oar]

especially w.r.t. an application which does not make calls through the internet to arbitrary IPs

since it seems to be related to running the game through some terminal and passing in some extra parameters

[errant cairn]

True

[karmic drum]

From what I've heard this shouldn't actually be an issue

[barren oar]

articles mentioning said exploit don't go very far into detail... probably because it just came out though lol and it'd compromise a lot of games otherwise

[errant cairn]

What does this actually mean for C2C? (You probably know more than I do)

[karmic drum]

The update I mean

But then again

I'm not educated on these things

[errant cairn]

Considering it might remove all steam branches...including Legacy....

[karmic drum]

Wtf....

Gabe better have my refund ready

[errant cairn]

So that means if you don't already have a legacy version of sn, you have to pirate it

I think

[barren oar]

i do wonder what will happen to reika's modsuite if this does go through

given she seems to be pretty wary of nautilus' gpl license since it technically requires all mods to also be GPL and also technically... makes it illegal to play subnautica with any mods, because subnautica itself isn't open source which GPL requires(?)

also the fact that nautilus doesn't yet have a full release i guess

[errant cairn]

We C2C players might be the majority of the only few last legacy players

[barren oar]

fcs lol

[unreal flame]

If the Legacy branch is being nuked, that means C2C will very suddenly have no version

[barren oar]

i'd guess it has a higher playerbase

[unreal flame]

It probably will also mean a very angry dragon

I can’t say I haven’t had plans to ask UWE to delete the March2023 and Legacy branches, but I would’ve waited until all major mods had some kind of release on the current version before doing that

[karmic drum]

Okay, so the important question

Is this just going to... nuke any saves we have right now?

Like just make them completely unplayable?

[barren oar]

if the branches are removed, it would force you to update to 2.0

on which reika's modsuite does not function

you can probably still backup your saves though

i've got (well. had, until i removed them) c2c saves alongside 2.0 saves by naming the c2c SNAppData something like c2csnappdata

[karmic drum]

Fuck. Welp... I feel like I've potentially wasted around 5hrs between today and yesterday then

[barren oar]

you could keep the saves until the suite is updated to 2.0

though there's no guarantee trying to load them on 2.0 will work fully

so glad i didn't restart my save yet though lol

[karmic drum]

The mod suite is still very much in beta

I'd be a fool to do that

I'm just pissed that we didn't get any forward notice

Not even a notice on steam

[errant cairn]

True

[barren oar]

they did say there will be more information w.r.t. the update later

[karmic drum]

And I mean sure I could do that. But again... c2c saves made now probably won't work on 2.0 when the mod gets that far. And it's not like doing this is gonna preserve my legacy branch

[karmic drum]

That is an absolutely unacceptable lack of communication when you're talking about dropping an entire branch of the game

[barren oar]

thats fair

that said, i can't say i've seen much info on where this claim originates from, either

[karmic drum]

I REALLY hope that this is all nothing and that the only branch of SN that I actually like playing on... because I'm only here for c2c... doesn't magically go up in smoke

[unreal flame]

I can’t say I’m against a version update happening sooner rather than later, but it’s definitely bad if it’s being forced

One upside, for instance, is that reika could integrate the Large Habitat into progression separately from the multipurpose room by adding it to one or more of the C2C bases (or making a new one)

[barren oar]

also that the large room provides a lot of opportunity w.r.t. cool machines

full room length particle accelerator 😋

[unreal flame]

What, are you wanting to make antimatter or something?

[barren oar]

how else do you wanna process the impossibly energy dense ion cube alien technology

this does imply a long crafting chain which vanilla shies away from, however

or just absurdly high power costs by vanilla standards (but in AE you just paste down enough batteries to sustain one process)

or be Boring and paste down 30 nuclear reactors

[errant cairn]

Yes

(Not seriously)

[errant cairn]

Do we even want to talk about the downsides? Besides the very angry dragon?

[barren oar]

there's the very obvious problem of reika needing to recode a huge chunk of her mods' code to fit 2.0's async prefab loading nature

[trail ether]

that would require assets I do not have

[trail ether]

I am not going to redo the existing bases

[barren oar]

...implying the sole problem behind the idea is the lack of assets?

intriguing

[trail ether]

that is the most fatal

lack of need can be solved by coming up with ideas

lack of assets cannot

[barren oar]

thats fair lol

[trail ether]

angry is probably the wrong wrod

but if this happens C2C will be dead for the forseeable fuiture

[errant cairn]

Aw

[unreal flame]

Is it easier to make a new one than to alter an existing one?

[barren oar]

since its come to discussion, are you even planning on updating c2c to 2.0?

assuming the branches do get removed

since nautilus is still pre-stable release and still on gpl

[errant cairn]

Probably not cause of this

[trail ether]

they are the same amount of effort

ie they cannot be edited, so that rquires remaking it from scratch

[unreal flame]

Ah.

[trail ether]

yes, but not any time soon

2026 at the earliest

and it will take 3 to 12 months

[errant cairn]

Hmmm

[unreal flame]

Even given this potentiality?

[trail ether]

i had an idea fora temporary stopgap measure

copy your SN install to another place, somewhere entirely out of steam

it probably does not require steam to run

[unreal flame]

It does

But! You can probably use branch manager to keep an instance of Legacy functional

[errant cairn]

Hopefully

[trail ether]

never heard of it

[trail ether]

also @trail plinth

[barren oar]

i see, so nautilus' circumstances weren't dealbreakers?

nice to hear its planned

would be unfortunate for the c2c experience to be cut short

[unreal flame]

Walkthrough:
https://github.com/MrPurple6411/Steam-Games-Branch-Manager/wiki/Walkthrough
download:
https://github.com/MrPurple6411/Steam-Games-Branch-Manager/releases/download/0.0.0.2/Steam.Games.Branch.Manager.exe

[unreal flame]

Nautilus’ licensing status is technically a nonissue

It either cannot apply to C2C anyway, or C2C is already in violation of the same license in QMM/SML

[barren oar]

good point

[trail plinth]

Ah nice, thank ye

[unreal flame]

The issues with nautilus’ beta state would have to be waived, though I expect there likely won’t be any major changes to it before “full release” regardless

[karmic drum]

More than likely

I just want to retain the ability to play what I have 😭 (might have to talk to a dude I know for that one)

[errant cairn]

Well ig the input pr isn't a major change

It's still noteworthy just not absolutely major. I kinda like the upcoming system anyway

[karmic drum]

I do hope Nautilus finishes it's beta development soon.

[errant cairn]

It's close. But Reika will start the port before Nautilus finishes beta dev if the branch erases. If she does, she'll finish after its out I think/hope

[trail ether]

i will not start development if a big change in API is coming

[errant cairn]

A. Fair, valid, and I agree, despite me being what I am
B. I suggest waiting a little while and monitor #📄┃github-feed for any big changes (each Pull Request is a possible change)
C. The input PR just changes how keybinds are set in 2.0, since the 2025 update broke both the attribute and class system

[trail ether]

i do not hav the inclination or time to monitor its development

[silk pond]

just wondering is the mod going to be updated soon as i am wanting to start a new playthrough and don't want an update to screw up my progress?

[trail plinth]

For the most part I dont think updates mess with your save or progress unless theres additional content that would be added after youve already progressed passed the need for it. My save is relatively okay considering how many updates it had to go through

[silk pond]

one of the recent ones broke it

when i say recent it was a few months ago

[trail ether]

it should be fine, though be warned of the possible impending legacy closure

[silk pond]

ok

[unreal flame]

Adjust “possible” to “directly confirmed”

Likely to happen Monday

[forest valve]

c2c speedrun

800 mg of caffiene, play for 2 days straight

optimize the living hell out of everything adn boom u beat the game

cant wait for the dozen videos that are like "LEGACY AND 2023 PATCHES CLOSED??? IS IT OVER FOR SUBNAUTICA ENTIRELY>?!>!>!??!

[barren oar]

KRAFTON taking CONTROL and planning to TRANSFORM SUBNAUTICA into a GAME AS A SERVICE by removing the ability to PLAY OLDER VERSIONS OF THE GAME

[forest valve]

😱

[trail plinth]

Outside of the clickbaity stuff, it does sort of set a precedent. If a company can remove your access to older versions of the game, suddenly they have the power to make changes to the game, and more importantly, how you get to play the game, on newer versions. it doesn't really mean too much with Subnautica since from what I understand they're not really adding stuff to the game, or really updating it from what I understand (I'm very out of the loop so I could be completely wrong), but it doesn't bode well as a concept in general for non-live service games

[forest valve]

well, the devs didnt want to, but they had to becuase of a security risk in this case

so its not really the dev's fault for wanting to keep themselves and people safe

[barren oar]

most games dont even keep older versions of the game available lol

subnautica is a big exception in this case

at this point though its too risky to keep it active

[trail plinth]

A lot of the games I play regularly can revert back to older versions, though yeah I suppose it may not be commonplace

[barren oar]

the only other ones i can think of are factorio and minecraft

actually does factorio even keep a legacy branch

oh factorio keeps a ton of branches of older versions

[trail plinth]

I don't know if they keep branches or anything, though steam lets me go back all the way to 0.12.35 for factorio

[barren oar]

roughly the same situation over there with "seablock" as it is here with c2c, in that seablock is a really big modpack but not yet out on 2.0

yeah those are branches

betas. whatever

[trail plinth]

ahhh okay

Stellaris as well

[barren oar]

in my case, keeping older versions are pretty much the exception

[trail plinth]

Terraria can go back to 1.0.6.1 holy crap

[barren oar]

though i also don't play too many heavily modded games, either

that's probably a big factor in favor of older versions

[barren oar]

ah then my count's up to 3

[trail plinth]

Yeah, minecraft especially

I dunno, I know I'm not knowledgeable about keeping older versions available on steam or wherever else, but I do understand that force-updating games and removing access to older versions can and does cause problems when done poorly or for bad reasons. Plenty of games I haven't touched in years because of a bad update and then no way to play older versions before the update, all for the game to become abandoned anyway. Plenty more I've been turned away from buying for the same reason, via other people sharing those experiences

[barren oar]

depends on how big the update is, really

if its just some patches here and there you're probably not going to notice it, even in the modding experience

[trail plinth]

For the most part yeah

I'm not really able to find anything about this online either actually, what's the issue with the legacy version? What kind of security issue?

[barren oar]

https://unity.com/security/sept-2025-01

affects all games made in unity 2017.1 onwards

which legacy. probably is made on, on one of them?

given they're taking it down

tldr to my understanding, on android it allows external code to run whatever the fuck it wants, on other platforms it can be used to gain the same permissions as said unity game

[trail plinth]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhh

Unity has provided fixes that address the vulnerability and they are already available to all developers.
So would this basically require some kind of rewrite to the legacy version then? Ie too much effort for an old version and therefore better to just remove it?

Not a developer by any means, but to me it sounds like a sort of 'update patch' to fix the issue, so I don't really know what to assume

[barren oar]

afaik it requires rebuilding the game on the updated editor version

or in other words, requires access to the "source project" - what devs work on before it can be compiled into a binary (what you, as the player, run)

admittedly, i don't know the specifics of how they've handled legacy, but uwe could have very easily not kept a backup of the legacy branch of the project somewhere, making it damn near impossible to get the original project and rebuild it with the fix applied

[trail plinth]

Ahhhhh okay, fair enough then

[barren oar]

there are tools that can attempt a decompilation/getting a project from a binary, but they don't support everything a project contains, and it would most certainly not be the original project, possibly adding more problems down the line they wouldn't catch (since uwe would, ideally, be getting the fixed version out as soon as possible)

(after all, why would they bother keeping a copy? if they were never going to work on legacy anymore again)

although... i do assume they've used some sort of version control, which would allow them to "easily" roll back as well

[unreal flame]

That precedent is set by default by Steam.

[trail ether]

shiiiiiiiit

[unreal flame]

Yeah…

[trail ether]

well

expect to be unable to play C2C for months

i mean that would be true even if i was updating right now

[unreal flame]

Could ask one of the sr modders for their input on a quick port attempt

[trail ether]

there is no doing it quickly

and noone is going to be willing to invest 30+ hours

which is the minimum it would take to even attempt a build that might boot but probably still has tons of issues

[unreal flame]

Hm

[karmic drum]

And that's ignoring all the time they'd have to set aside to make it happen

Crazy* amount of money

As someone who has the paperwork to be offended by the R. Word

Dyno can bite my backside

Still sad to hear I'll have to find a new comfort game for a while

Need something that's low sensory enough to not throw my high stress autism into overdrive.... 🤔

Probably gonna end up buying a new mc account

[unreal flame]

Factorio on no biter aggression

[karmic drum]

I mean.... I know how to keep playing c2c... but it would mean I couldn't talk about it here anymore 😅

[barren oar]

hah

i can confirm factorio is goated

why does the game whose name is 75% derived from "factory" include base defense

wouldnt necessarily buy it if you dont alreay have it though

kovarex (lead designer, co-owner of the company) is

well, he's said some stuff

i hope the vagueness is enough to more-or-less explain why im being vague about it

the alternative is satisfactory (whose devs, i hear, are actually kinda based & goated) but the additional dimension makes it way more arse to build than factorio is

[karmic drum]

I don't. And I'm spending way too much money on mental treatment to buy something I don't already know I enjoy

Like I had an actual fucking severe anxiety attack yesterday. No way I'm gambling on a new game

[errant cairn]

Nah fuck that I'll be using the branch manager

Once I'm ungrounded

[karmic drum]

Dude... I don't think the branch manager is gonna help if they totally yoink it off steam

Even if you do it before hand

[barren oar]

i see

that's certainly smarter

[normal frigate]

Might be able to run from the EXE, its worked a few times for me

[karmic drum]

Noted. Weighing all my options to keep playing the current version while we all wait for a c2c 2.0 port

[normal frigate]

If not; its always possible to use the depot downloader

[karmic drum]

And just... download an entire separate version of the game which isn't necessarily dependent on steam itself...? (I think that's what I'm reading?)

[normal frigate]

It shouldn’t be. I’ve been able to download some of Subnauticas earliest versions via the depot downloader

Though theres still the risk of you getting exposed to this vulnerability

[karmic drum]

I don't even know what the potential vulnerability is

Time to check the steam post

I mean it sounds low risk

A sort of "don't play stupid games. Don't win stupid prizes" situation

[forest valve]

"Could allow local code execution and access to confidential information on end user devices running unity-built applications. Code execution would be confined to the privilege level of the vulnerable application, and information disclosure would be confined to the information available to the vulnerable application.There is no evidence of any exploitation of the vulnerability nor has there been any impact on users or customers."

[karmic drum]

Yea. I read the unity post

[forest valve]

better safe than sorry so it had to be done ig

[karmic drum]

Yea. I can see the public security option. As well as UWE (Krafton being able to save money (maybe?) By only having one branch of the game to manage

[karmic drum]

this is gonna be a learning curve xD

[forest valve]

well, i dont think it woudl really cost more money

does having multiple versions mae gamedevs charge more?

there is literally no fee for steam lmao

only a onetime

[karmic drum]

that's why I put the maybe. because unity put out a patch pretty much right away. but they are choosing to close the branch anyway

[forest valve]

that branch does not fix legacy and 2.0

i mean the fix

only some unity versions in general are fixed

[karmic drum]

ooooh

my bad

[forest valve]

only those versions of unity were fixed

[karmic drum]

Ahhh

[barren oar]

ohh that would explain it

since i think legacy is on 2018.4

just outside the supported range, it seems

[karmic drum]

Thanks. I'm downloading the proper legacy build with depot downloader now

Let's see how this goes

[forest valve]

what's the 2.0 one called

uniry version

[barren oar]

2019.1 i think lol

[forest valve]

damn

[trail ether]

I had another idea

Steam does not actively hash-check game files constantly

anyone who has ever "modded" a steam game by editing its install files knows that from experience

myself included

so what if you were to back up the game directory, let it update, and then revert the DLLs, the exe, and the resource archives on disk

[karmic drum]

I have no clue how to do that.... but it sounds like it would work

[trail ether]

literally just replace the files on disk

back them up now

[karmic drum]

ah oki

yea that could work

could further fortify it by using branch manger to protect against further updates

so that would essentially be the .exe files, the .dll files in the main folder, and the entire Subnautica_data folder?

[trail ether]

Subnautica_Data contains both the DLLs and the resource files

that plus the DLLs in the root folder, along with the game EXE itself, should suffice

[karmic drum]

yes. that is why I asked. I am not very tech savy so I'm trying to make sure I had it straight xD

[trail plinth]

Yeah, there are games i have on steam where ive deleted the game files and steam still lets me hit the play button in the library (obviously nothing happens) so having a backup to copy into the steam directory could very well work

[karmic drum]

Yea. I'm messing around with literally whatever will let me keep playing

[trail ether]

I just dumped the entire IL of every method i patch too

I am also pushing out the half-complete current release

[unreal flame]

I posted the branch manager earlier

[unreal flame]

It will. It keeps two (or more) instances of the game available for quick swapping. You can even launch the game via steam and it won’t complain

[trail ether]

so it is basically a programmatic way of doing my idea above?

[unreal flame]

Probably?

It uses symlinks or whatever

[trail ether]

oh even better

saves the disk writes

[unreal flame]

Yeah it’s 2+ Subnautica instances in a folder called “Subnautica branches” and the actual Subnautica folder is replaced with a symlink that gets swapped to whichever directory is the chosen one

[karmic drum]

Are there patches going out today?

[barren oar]

they've been released half an hour ago

dragon industries, c2c and exscan at least

[karmic drum]

Oh... huh. Alright. I'll try downloading them again

[barren oar]

maybe there could be some convenient "download all" button on the c2c main page

with a new zip release in https://github.com/ReikaKalseki/Reika_SubnauticaModsShared/releases that contains every other zip or just the folders all zipped up in one

but uh. definitely something to be thinking about after c2c is ported lol

[karmic drum]

okay. so as far I can tell. and again keeping in mind this isn't my forte. replacing the matching 2.0 files with legacy files seems to simply result in the game refusing to launch.

[unreal flame]

just let branch manager do it

start it up, use it to create a new branch, set that new branch active, and change steam to stable

[karmic drum]

Not sure what I goofed. But even when creating both branches, setting the games base state back to stable, and then selecting legacy in branch manager... it still launches the game in 2.0 mode

[unreal flame]

it won't change what steam says about it

[errant cairn]

Play SN VR. Even modded VR

[karmic drum]

hehehehehehehe

bite my sensory overload xD

[trail plinth]

Honestly I'd love to try c2c in VR (and even with a multiplayer mod) but the amount of effort that would have to go into making either of those work I could only imagine would be insane

[karmic drum]

@unreal flame I see what I wasn't doing with that software yesterday. The branch manager

Getting one last copy of the legacy version before it's actually taken down

[karmic drum]

VR would be more possible than multi-player. But both are fundamentally impossible since Reika has a very tight grip on her intellectual property. And for good reasons.

Oh hell yea, that worked

Thank steams lack of checks

[karmic drum]

Okay hell yea. Got my mods working, my save back

Had a minor heart attack cause I accidentally installed the wrong version of Qmods so nothing was loading 😅

I just ripped out the whole 2.0 folder, and put a legacy folder with all the fixings where it used to be

And it works like magic

[trail ether]

I would support VR if it was not a huge task

[karmic drum]

Yea. I wouldn't ask you to lol. Both from a personal angle of not wanting to play it. And from the angle of it being absolutely monumental as well

[forest valve]

imagine the ||abyss biome in vr||

||just constantly going to ur moth and back tying not to become ghostie food||

[karmic drum]

I can't even imagine it normally lol

[forest valve]

oh

havent been there?

[karmic drum]

Anything off the edge of the crater can bite my behind 😂

[forest valve]

well guess what c2c takes advantage of....

svery biome in fhe game

[karmic drum]

I think I was once... but spent the whole time playing chicken with a ghosty and not being able to see shit

[forest valve]

well want I should tell u whats there sice the last time i went to it?

[karmic drum]

Naw. I'll figure it out when I figure out the legitimate method of getting down there 😂

[forest valve]

fair

is cool as fuck btw :3

[karmic drum]

My methods for even getting out that way... never mind getting down. Were jank as fuck

[forest valve]

||ah, mustve skipped the teleportation trigger||

[karmic drum]

2pcs of magnetite to get my first scanner room going. Less goo

[trail ether]

I would LOVE to play it

but I would need an additional $1500 in GPUs, and 5k/mo in rent for a room big enough

well

i guess SN is not really an "on your feet" VR game

so maybe not the latter

[karmic drum]

Yea... that's my thing with some of more favorite vr games... or games in general. Is the intense gpu load from all the modding I do

If I wanted to play anything properly in vr I'd need to upgrade/replace half of my whole pc

[barren oar]

and the vr set :)

such a cool technology but unfortunately limited by costs

[forest valve]

well, if you want it to be super realistic, you probably need a multi hundred grand or multimillion super advanced room that makes it feel likeur actually swimming

[barren oar]

and with a custom mouthpiece that makes it so you have to hold your breath, lest you use up oxygen significantly faster

well i guess that'd only be relevant uptill the first tank

controlled breaths, where if you do it too fast, you end up dumping oxygen unecessarily?

is that realistic i dont know enough about diving

[karmic drum]

Okay, so jokes aside people have made software to emulate things like actually tieng your ingame o2 to your own breathing

[barren oar]

fr?

i only knew of the youtuber that did a "breath hold" challenge whatever

if i recall correctly

[trail ether]

I can hold my breath for all of 12 seconds XD

[trail ether]

reminds me of an MC mod idea i had

an RF generator which takes input from an IRL sensor mounted on a treadmill

exercise-powered RF

of course the conversion factor would have to be wildly unequal in your favor to get a useful amount of RF out of it

since I calculated 1RF/t = 520W and the maximum output of a human is like 400W XD

[unreal flame]

isn't your current GPU pretty sizable?

like, it's better than mine and I could probably manage VR on it

[karmic drum]

Is it possible that my save bugged and my

||Nanolating drone fragments||

Failed to spawn?

Cause they're pretty hard to miss. But I can't seem to find them where they...

Hold that thought

[errant cairn]

If you mean singular sure. Plural, you might be buying only AMD cards in this market istg

[errant cairn]

Just a little longer for me

[errant cairn]

God I hope my 6950 XT can run VR (you're scarring me that I wont be able to. I have no idea what card ur running)

[errant cairn]

Yes. Happened to me my first save

[unreal flame]

3070

[errant cairn]

https://tenor.com/view/really-willsmith-hmm-well-sarcastic-gif-18053026837878396159

[errant cairn]

Do you mean you could manage VR on your card? (I feel like google lol)

[unreal flame]

most likely

[karmic drum]

||they're supposed to be in the cave system connected to the large thermal vent in the shallows right? The one with all the drooping stingers and crash fish?||

[errant cairn]

Like 7 of em? Yup

[karmic drum]

Well... time to start from scratch again

Gonna go ahead and turn off hard mode though. I don't have the mental energy for all that right now

[trail ether]

yes but you need multiple parallel GTX99999999RTXULTRA to run VR at decent quality and framerate

each of which retails for $2000 MSRP before tax, shipping, store markup, and the Nvidia fuck-you tax

[trail ether]

yes

[unreal flame]

decade-outdated info

[trail ether]

tell that to a certain couple of people you know who dismissively laughed with a "awww, that's cute" reaction when i speculated this card to be capable of VR back when I got it

how you need certain proprietary this or that bullshit and certain this or that minimum whateverthefuck

[trail plinth]

Just curious, how much would be different in VR programming-wise? Id imagine handling things like guis and movement would be fairly different in VR to standard gameplay but i can only assume

[trail ether]

same people i mentioned the other day, actually

[unreal flame]

sure, maybe in 2015 you'd need three parallel GTX titans (not really, SLI kind of sucks ass) but nowadays basically any card made since can do it

[trail plinth]

Ie being able to see in a different direction than youre moving could be janky

[trail plinth]

I could be wrong but not all VR hardware is created equal right? Id imagine the cpu requirements scale based on quality/demand of the particular VR set

[trail ether]

actually for one of them it was less dismissive "aw that's cute" and more antagonistic "maybe you should think twice before saying stupid things when you clearly don't know what you talking about in front of those of us who do"

[unreal flame]

i can go ask my VR friends

[trail ether]

at decent quality and performance? because someone i know was trying VRChat this last weekend with a card only a little cheaper than mine and was struggling to get 20FPS

[unreal flame]

what was your card again?

[trail ether]

7900, alphabet soup model

then again that does not narow it down

one moment

[karmic drum]

There hasn't been proper need for a titan in years

[unreal flame]

the xtx?

[trail plinth]

How in the fuck do these people expect discussions to happen? Do they expect everyone to just be knowledgable in everything?

[unreal flame]

well yeah, it's been outdated for at least six years

[karmic drum]

Yea, okay. Save bugged out then

[trail ether]

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/PTkRhAB3AyKjvwbw0b5PZuMqsj9r-ejb0K5tN6zE81g/https/i.imgur.com/BanH6cP.png?format=webp&quality=lossless

[trail ether]

yes

or to just shut up and listen to their betters

[karmic drum]

That's what I'm saying. But for some reason people think chunky ass cards like that are the pinnacle of power

[trail plinth]

Looking at that style of gui just made me feel like i aged another decade

[unreal flame]

VRC is a difficult benchmark because it's all UGC

[trail ether]

why do you think they take it so poorly when you ever express doubt at their advice

[unreal flame]

you wouldn't accept "i get 5 fps in subnautica because if I install this mod that adds a fifty million vertex object that is always loaded it slows down"

[trail plinth]

I swear these people have some sort of complex

[unreal flame]

i can't actually recall who in particular you're referring to

[trail plinth]

I can imagine a few people honestly

[trail ether]

rainbow shadow trail and green C++

[trail plinth]

HA

Thats at least one of them

[unreal flame]

wait who is

ohhh right he does do that

reminds me, there's another reason you really ought to play undertale

[trail ether]

what

[unreal flame]

don't worry about it

[karmic drum]

Omg.... I hate these people. But it's the skyrim modding community with me instead of the subnautica modding community.

[forest valve]

how do u not know everythingngn!!

[errant cairn]

Right??? /j /j

[karmic drum]

Speedran the habit builder only to remember that bases are morale siphons early on that I'm probably better living out of my pod and working towards the seamoth

😅

Might still keep a small base next to the pod though. Just for storage that way I'm not living out of waterproof lockers

Also it might just be that I'm crazy early on in this run. But morale feels way more forgiving on normal mode

Not sure if there's an actual morale difference between normal and hardmode though

[unreal flame]

This seems like bad emergent design to me

@trail ether thoughts on a temporary morale boost for “new” base pieces (mainly “has built a base with some kind of interior” and “has built a multipurpose room”)

[forest valve]

mm true, ryley should feel alot better now thqat he has a proper place he could set shit up in

[trail ether]

what do you mean

[trail ether]

that is no better

[karmic drum]

Didn't build anything yet. Just sort of did that in a frenzy last night to compensate for loosing my 9hr save

[unreal flame]

the player's presence in a habitat shouldn't incur morale detriments early on

[karmic drum]

No

It totally makes sense

It's a damp titanium room

That you're only in because you crashed

[unreal flame]

the lifepod is also a damp titanium room

if we're using morale to characterize how a person would most likely realistically feel about their situation, there should be at least some acknowledgement of the construction of more permanent habitation

(honestly, first [functional object in category] ought to have morale boosts for quite a few things)

[karmic drum]

I also get that morale is meant to be a bit of a hurdle early game. Too many buffs could kill that experience

[unreal flame]

first base piece
first habitat room
first planter (or perhaps better, first farmed harvest)
first seamoth
first non-solar power

[errant cairn]

There already is a boost for first seamoth (in normal mode, at least)

[errant cairn]

early game, its a little difficult to gain morale without decor and/or a moth. Sure, the first thing you could do with a good enough O2 Tank is go get decor, but I believe what N8 is saying is there should be some slight morale boost for building certain base pieces for the first time. A person would feel better if they build something a little bit better/functional than their dusty previous equipment

although, I'm not complaining

[unreal flame]

particularly, I just don't think the player should be incentivized to stick around in the lifepod any longer than they already do in the basegame (power instability and lack of a fabricator)

(and don't use this as an excuse to give the lifepod a morale malus after the player's built a habitat, that'd be fucking stupid)

[trail ether]

there is no easy way to do this

i would need a whole new system to track firsts

and it would be a spam of StoryGoals

[unreal flame]

hm

drawing blanks on other ideas to smooth out the shift from lifepod to base

[trail ether]

I agree on this

[karmic drum]

It's more that you need to really decorate that first living space. Like to the point that a seamoth is more beneficial atm

[unreal flame]

the reason why is somewhat less important

[foggy thistle]

what is that morale you are talking about?

[unreal flame]

sea to sea adds a 'morale' meter

[forest valve]

soon enough ur gonna have to actually breathe and stuff smh, this is just the beginning

[unreal flame]

shit and piss meters

[karmic drum]

Yall are too much 😭

[errant cairn]

Nuh uh

[forest valve]

best way to minmax them is to max em out and empty immediately, tho it comes at a great risk of shitting yourself (extreme morale loss, and the embarrassment meter goes up) and if u pee urself predators and warpers find your location easier

[faint summit]

"You have to shit into the bio reactor shinji, we're running out of oxygen and there are three ghost leviathans out there."

[fiery fiber]

i keep getting virus detected when i try to download Aqueus update

downloaded zip from git .. but it doesn't seem to work. Sorry I'm incompetent about this

[faint summit]

Your antivirus is throwing a false positive, people download the mod every day from the github without issue.

In other words, the mod is perfectly safe.

[forest valve]

youd just be shitting yourself at that point

oh also, theres a fear meter

it gets too high with your shit (or piss) meters too high, you do the actions depending on if theyre full or not

reaper caught your seamoth while you need to take a piss?

congrats, now you gotta clean it

[trail plinth]

this devolved fast

[karmic drum]

I had no part in this

[trail plinth]

neither did I lmao

[karmic drum]

🤝

[errant cairn]

Real

[errant cairn]

If it's still alive

[faint summit]

[karmic drum]

Well someone got far enough to figure out where the FCS tech is...

[exotic apex]

I just want to say, I'm about 2 days in on my save in terms of total playtime, and I'm having a lot of fun. A lot of frustration too, but lots of fun. I'm one of those people who considers Subnautica a horror game, and so being forced to go to locations I normally try to avoid pretty much feels like my first time playing the game again

[faint summit]

This isn't with C2C yet, it's just FCS

[karmic drum]

Oh

[exotic apex]

Before this I've pretty much never explored the Jelly caves beyond the Degasi Base there. Crabsnakes freak me out, idk why. Crabsquids too, I just don't like what Subnautica calls crabs i guess.

[karmic drum]

They are unusual creatures. But it's always nice to see someone ya know... actually appreciating the mod. Instead of just complaining about the parts they don't like

I'd recommend backing up your entire current subnautica folder though

That way you can keep playing when the legacy branch gets nuked

[exotic apex]

wym?

[karmic drum]

UWE will be removing the legacy branch from steam in the coming days

[exotic apex]

O

[karmic drum]

So you'll want a copy of your current SN folder

[exotic apex]

Gotcha, thanks for the heads up

[karmic drum]

That way you can swap it out for 2.0 post update

And keep playing

[karmic drum]

🫡

[exotic apex]

I also appreciate the sentence mixing with the new PDA lines. I grew up watching YTPs, so I always respect the craft.

I know so many mod makers who would just use "AI" for giving a character more lines

[karmic drum]

we're so back

[karmic drum]

Seamoth is king 🙏

[faint summit]

I'm getting warnings from c2c about the cyclops laser cannon module even though it is disabled in qmod SAM, is this normal?

[fiery fiber]

Ya I've downloaded it many times. Is there any guidance besides it's the anti-virus? Just in case, cuz didn't get the message for the other parts that I downloaded.

[errant cairn]

Ffr

[errant cairn]

Cyclops laser cannon is running anyway? No that's not normal

[karmic drum]

functional base, seamoth and moonpool, mod station, even found a plush in a time capsule. good day overall

[errant cairn]

W

12/10 day

I had a 0/10 day 😭

(Check my status) im still stressed. But sleep is nice so. Gn

[karmic drum]

Yea.. you sriill in a pickle

Sleep is goated

Gn.

[exotic apex]

Judging by the crafting recipes so far, this ocean gonna be bare by the time I leave lmao. Half tempted to just spam rooms full of lockers and shove literally every item I see into my pockets

Normally I like to think that, aside from the whole crash-zone thing, my time on the 4546B is a general positive for the ecosystem what with the whole curing the space-plague and all. Not this time I guess

[barren oar]

your existence is a net negative in base game too because where are the fish going to get their precious radiation from after you dump all the uraninite into reactors 💔

also probably microplastics from your base dive suit or lifepod

[exotic apex]

I make sure to eat ALL of my microplastics myself Thank You Very Much

[barren oar]

lol

eco friendly

[karmic drum]

So.... you're not exactly correct in that assumption.. but I'll let you figure that out later 😅

[karmic drum]

I'm very eco-friendly. Except for where acid mushrooms are concerned. I'm not farming those until I get a bio processor

[exotic apex]

I am aware of Auroresource, I do read the descriptions of mods I install, but I also get the feeling getting any use out of it is gonna take a while lmao

I mean, I know it happens because it's the Internet, but I still don't understand how some folks just install stuff without like, reading anything other than the title. Especially for a mod like C2C, which is plastered with warnings and instructions lol

[karmic drum]

Beats me

[faint summit]

Ahhh, I thought I was going to be free of this nonsense by settling in the sparse reef.

Walked out the door and got jumped by phytoplankton again.

[karmic drum]

Nope. They are literally everywhere you put up a base

[faint summit]

I don't think they're in the deeper biomes, my base in the bulb zone last playthrough had none.

I don't think the mountains have them either.

I do think the morale damage of the phytoplankton is a little absurd, especially since the damage isn't permanent.

[trail plinth]

Can confirm that the mountains have phytoplankton. Gotta deal with it somehow

Also i think the morale loss is because of 'health drain' effects being a lot of tiny damage ticks, and morale is lost in small amounts when dealt small damage, but its a lot of damage ticks so morale drops really fast. Same thing with heat damage

[unreal flame]

Suggestion: small cooldown period before morale can be lost to the same source again (~1 second)

[karmic drum]

I'm gonna go against that one. I see the logic. But I think it would just cause players to further undercut or misuse morale recovery

[trail plinth]

Depending on how difficult it is to implement, it may be better to have that implimented but only on specific sources, ie mostly 'damage over time' effects like poison

Though for the most part, I don't imagine any single source other than poison or heat damage can damage you that quickly anyway. Fall damage maybe, and maybe tigerplants, but everything else has a longer cooldown on damage they can deal iirc

wait nvm I remember getting bit 3 times by a cave crawler in less than a second

I could also see justification for additional morale loss from effects like these though due to poison likely being accompanied by some feeling of 'sickness', rather than just "ow that thing bit me". Same with heat damage, burns are a different type of pain than being stung/bitten/slashed, so I could see some amount of justification. I do agree though that having morale plummet from 100 to 0 from a single dose of poison can be a bit annoying, but in my playthrough I haven't had too much issue with that

[karmic drum]

A vending machine has zero effect on deco rating... that feels wrong

[trail plinth]

reika did mention she was going to give it a positive deco rating, iirc

[karmic drum]

Ah. Well hopefully some day

[worldly valve]

I beliebe the damage amount is somewhat unintended to be as high as it is. Planktons had a lot of work done on jt

Oh morale not damage

[faint summit]

I wouldn't complain at all if it didn't constantly accumulate at the entrances of your base.

There is also no method of mitigating it other than scooping it, seems a little odd when we have other methods in ecocean for repelling other forms of wildlife.

I know there are more pressing concerns at the moment with legacy nearing the end of its life but it's definately something to consider.

[trail plinth]

There are methods for removing it other than scooping

[faint summit]

You can tell me in a spoiler, I have no intent of finding out on my own.

[unreal flame]

It would be very difficult to “game” a sub-second, damage-discriminating timer

[worldly valve]

Ill give a hint, we are encouraged to not give direct answers.

Perhaps you need a different scooo

[trail plinth]

There's no particular gating to getting what you need to deal with seabase plankton. You could theoretically get it near the start of your run

[karmic drum]

I'm convinced that there's loads of useful tech that I just haven't found right under my nose

[errant cairn]

if you have a good enough tank

[errant cairn]

I wonder where the "under my nose" expression came from (off topic)

[trail plinth]

iirc you don't need to go below 100m but I could be wrong

[worldly valve]

I do know there are several hinted at uses people havent really figured out

[errant cairn]

Pda entry

(The main hint)

[worldly valve]

usually

[errant cairn]

At 100 I think

[errant cairn]

Ig ppl r dumb then

[worldly valve]

i was more speakoing generally

|| i believe the plankton feeder has a use outside the obvious one||

||i was told i may not like it ||

[trail plinth]

||well it attracts filter feeders, I can only imagine which ones you may not like||

[worldly valve]

heh

foor real tho i did get a direct reply to from Reika about that one at one point

id have to dig it up, i could if you wanted me to\

my context might be a little off but im pretty sure it was about that one

but that begins and ends my knowledge, wll i did light experiments with it actually

in regards to well

i shouldnt say right now, someone in chat is puzzing it atm

for what its worth

sorry about the other day

i was frustrated wuith the mechanic

but i was out of line

[faint summit]

Do not fucking tell me that ||the plankton feeder attracts ghost leviathans.||

[worldly valve]

jesus i hope not

i never tested in that location

[faint summit]

It says it attracts filter feeders, I'm hoping I'm wrong

[worldly valve]

im worried you might not be

it's a solid idea

i think better than the one i had with it