SeaToSea

[worldly valve]

😝

[barren oar]

yeah pipes&pumps unfortunately stink and you cannot connect a pre-existing pipeline to a pump

that said, i do wonder if pipes work to have an oxygen replenish area without consuming your ||one dive kharaa treatment item||, which would make getting the upgrade a breeze

i think it might only act as a "fluid recharge" station instead of main going into supply, though

[trail ether]

try it

[barren oar]

unfortunately switching to legacy fucking sucks

[worldly valve]

Lairian i believe does some experiments with air pumps

In their plaiythrough

[tight creek]

It works.

I got the Tungsten Grains from it.

[forest valve]

why do you let the morale system fester?

or like, its very low

[tight creek]

I don't know.

[fiery fiber]

I use the pumps alot! Used them in the tree and for ash. I consider that my cheese 😋 . Btw just started a new save haven't been around for a while. This purple face is something ... I like it ... just gotta figger it out.

Read some stuff about deco. If it DOES work, will fcs deco stuff possibly work?

[worldly valve]

I know, its beautiful

[worldly valve]

Test it for us pls

[fiery fiber]

Will do!

I just started new save tho so might be a Lil bit

[karmic drum]

Little longer than you might think lol. The three data boxes aren't in the main fcs wreck this time

I didn't find where they are before I decided to take a break though. So I can't help you there

[trail ether]

yes FCS stuff has deco integration

in fact a lot of its deco stuff has higher ratings than anything in vanilla

I first developed the deco system during my FCS playthrough in Dec 2023

[karmic drum]

Okay. That actually makes a lot of sense 😅

[fiery fiber]

Woohoobpeeper fountain is back!

[trail ether]

?

[fiery fiber]

Peeper fountain thing in fcs. I have a use for it now hopefully

[fiery fiber]

Actually it's an aquarium table thingy 👀

[silk pond]

is it recomended to restart my playthrough because of the new update?

[trail ether]

it is a big update but it is not a huge progression change

if you only hav a couple hours in why not

but do not throw away 20-50 hours

[silk pond]

i am 40 hours in

i think i will keep it around

[abstract knoll]

pain

guess ill try there

i see membrane tree

question,

will updating my mods (eg. Sea to Sea) break my save?

[errant cairn]

not sure

cause ive had my save break lots of times and the only consistency is C2C updating (Reika and I do not think it is this)

update anyway

[tight creek]

No, it won't

[trail ether]

i found something funny

people might have noticed that if you sit through the intro cinematic your morale starts at 15 rather than the 50 it should

this made no sense and i was not able to track it from the code, so I made every adjustment to morale print a stacktrace

it pointed to the damage callback, ie where you lose morale for taking damage

in turn called by...IntroLifepodDirector in the vanilla code

...you know how you start with 80 health? that is not because you spawn with 80

you spawn with the default value, ie 100%...but that panel to the face in the cinematic actually does 20hp of damage

[past geyser]

It should have gave him a concussion as well.

[worldly valve]

I beliebe you fall unconcious

[trail ether]

IRL he would be dead

LoC from a head impact, if it lasts longer than a couple seconds, is a strong indication of an intracranial hemhorrage

untreated that will kill you as the rising pressure from the bleed, due to the lack of surplus space in the cranial vault, forces the brain away, across sharp structures or even out the foramen magnum

and brain herniation is an almost guaranteed death sentence

[worldly valve]

Yeah falling u concious no joke

Especially due to trauma

In not medically trained but i have my ofa level 2 and lots of backgrouns

(I dont consider first aid to be medical for reference, largely to do with training levels)

[trail ether]

there is a reason the GCS is one of the first and most definitive indications of long-term prognosis

also IRL the LoC tends to come in two phases - the person passes out for a second from the initial impact, then wakes up and seems fine...until they gradually fade over the next couple hours, as the blood accumulates and the ICP rises; by this point it is too late so if people assumed it was fine after they woke up...they tend to die

i think some famous actor died that way

after a skiing accident

[worldly valve]

Someone got semi lucky in my work circles in the last year

Metal truck door was pressurizing and basically spring loaded onto the guys fave

Face

First aid couldnt get him concious

[trail ether]

time for an emergency head CT

[worldly valve]

He did indeed go to hoapital

Is okay now afaik

[trail ether]

no neuro deficits? or did he not even have an actual head trauma beyond the structures of the face

it is pretty shock absorbent, almost like a car's crumple zone...

[worldly valve]

Well probably permanent damage of a kind. They did return to work though

I dont have access to any of the files and even if i did i couldnt give specifics

[trail ether]

yes

[worldly valve]

Im walking around rules as is, though im comforable with what ive said

First aid atrendant was shook

[trail ether]

generally you can describe the case so long as you do not include anything identifying

be that actual PII or something so unique about the case that anyone would be able to identify it

[worldly valve]

Yeah im not too too concerned. Just like to be minsful

Its really easy to say a bit too much with these thinga

You get told that sometimes people wont respond

But you also get taught a few of the "this will wake them" techniquws

Scissors into nail bed n shit like that

I believe that one did not wake the victim

Which is pretty fuckin scart

I miss ny old first aid teacher

So if you happen to be bleeding profusly from your broken arm

Guess which injury i just ignore

Grab that zap strap and put that extreme pressure down, let em know their arm is gonna hurt a fuck of a lot more in a second

My ither fav quote was

[trail ether]

i heard it with a toothpick

but same idea

if pain reflexes fail then...that is a very bad sign

[worldly valve]

"When you hear them screaning at the top of their lungs, that tells you its ownly 2 or 3 more turns foe the touriquette being ready"

[worldly valve]

That should do it too yes

[trail ether]

yes a tourniquet hurts like hell

ischemia does that

[civic grotto]

Hey quick question, is SeatoSea compatible with legacy?

[civic grotto]

Better than dying though

Oops sorry for ping

[barren oar]

c2c is only on legacy

[civic grotto]

Ah, that makes it simple

[civic grotto]

Are there any guides for manual installation?

[barren oar]

you download the mods from reika's site, then extract and put them in your qmod folder

[worldly valve]

i think it wasnt head/brain trauma. coulda been much much worse

[worldly valve]

i can hop in vc for a bit

[civic grotto]

I'll try it myself first, but thank you, I'll hit you up if I run into problems

[worldly valve]

Its mostly just unzipping and making sure its in your.....qmods folder....

Yeah qmods folder

When you unzip, a lot of files will have the correct folder hidden inside a folder

So make sure its the folder in the folder and not the folder that holds the foldee

Also find yourself blueprint tracker

Radial tabs

And most importantly, easycraft

(Or dont use easycraft ans have lyzing enzymes be the most lengthy 3 step crafting process you ever did subnautica)

[barren oar]

its really not that bad

[fiery fiber]

Internal admantium skull receiver for alterea wetware is what saved gim and why he went unconscious. And of course there's that standard spacer wolverine healing factor for all space goers 😋

[trail ether]

a more rigid skull does not help for a lot of injuries, though for a simple low-mass impactor it would

[civic grotto]

Anyone else feel like by the time you get the cyclops in C2C, its nearly irrelevant?

[barren oar]

if i recall correctly, i do think you need it to progress at... One point

but generally prawn and outpost bases are the goats otherwise

[karmic drum]

I mean I don't really care how relevant it is. If made the sub then I'm gonna use it

[barren oar]

so many ion power cells though 💔

and also slow as hell

[civic grotto]

Anyone think theres a good middle ground to do with commands?

Get it at a time thats fair and doesnt trivialize other vehicles but still lets you enjoy arguably the best part of the game with the arguably coolest sub

[trail ether]

can someone test something

spawn, with commands, a smoked peeper

item smokedpeeper

does your game hang about 20 seconds later

well not hang

get incredibly laggy

0.05 FPS

correction it is not sudden

it gradually gets worse and worse, even in the main menu

because i have noticed a bizarre issue when adding these https://i.imgur.com/tigP5pG.jpeg

also fun fact those sprites are generated at runtime, from the smoked ones, using RGB/HSV transformations

so i can dynamically generate smoked variants of ANY cooked fish now

[worldly valve]

Ill pop on tonight

Need to update

[worldly valve]

Ive been consumed by overcooked

[civic grotto]

When would you guys recommend using commands to get the cyclops a little earlier that’s not progression breaking?

[trail ether]

do not cheat with C2C

[civic grotto]

How do you hide the outdated version thing?

[trail ether]

by updating

why are you not updating

[civic grotto]

Because I just updated yesterday and didnt wanna go through it again lol

[trail ether]

this update fixes a few serious issues

[worldly valve]

So low key i actually think an early cyclops can harm your plau throigh

And i dont mean by having a nice thing too early

The niceness of it will work against you for a few reasons

[karmic drum]

I'm not playing right now. But I'm still curious

I have my own I deas. But I wanna hear yours

[worldly valve]

Several angles

There is a shit ton of exploring and backtracking

If the cyclops is your unit of choice then eeeg

Im uncwetain about ceetain base pieces working insidr the clops as well

Which also ties in to the base building being a part of sone of the puzzles

Ans it hinders the ability to naturally explore

The stuff being moveable would still ne really handy, but im not sure you'd gain time from getting it early

Especially blind

As myaelf and you could use and early cyclops very effevtively

[karmic drum]

That's about what I was thinking

But I'd still find a way to missuse it

[worldly valve]

(Accudentally coasts into the river power starts melting away, tun faster pls lls pls pls pls)

[civic grotto]

Where would I find this mod

I dont see it on the github under dependencies

Oh wait its dragon industries

except I have that mod?

I wonder why it acts like I dont

[civic grotto]

Yeah it seems like it won’t run anything based on dragon after the update

Even rolling back to the only version causes the mods to fail to load

[trail ether]

what

[trail ether]

copy this somewhere it can be browsed in its entirety

[civic grotto]

https://pastebin.com/K7kUKW2s

[trail ether]

[B]Bind exception: System.Net.Sockets.SocketException (0x80004005): Only one usage of each socket address (protocol/network address/port) is normally permitted.

what the hell is THAT

[trail ether]

[QModManager:WARN] The following mods are not listed as compatible with Nitrox and have been skipped:
- Aqueous Engineering (ReikaKalseki.AqueousEngineering)
- Ecocean (ReikaKalseki.Ecocean)
- SeaToSea (ReikaKalseki.SeaToSea)
- Dragon Industries - Alterra Division (ReikaKalseki.DIAlterra)
- Terrain Patcher (TerrainPatcher)```

[civic grotto]

Yeah I'm doing an unholy amalgamation

Oh thats the issue

I forgot I'd have to enable compat with all of them again

Yeah now it works

silly me lol

[unreal flame]

If you’re so worried about a random person who is clearly just playing your mods secretly trying to serve you Trojans through a newly discovered zero-day exploit in the text editor of your choice (one which the supposed attacker has no actual way of knowing which editor it is!)

Then could you at least just make a sandbox for all the text files you’re suspicious of

[worldly valve]

dude please lemme knoiw how this goes

or the server

thats cool as fuck...but i expect problems for you

[past geyser]

it might not work

but i guess they can try

[worldly valve]

on its own it wont for sure

ive seen people get it atnleast partially working

but even regular nitrox has big issues like

"where is my seamoth"

[past geyser]

random exploding seamoths

[worldly valve]

so wi dould advise module never get left inside>.>

[past geyser]

cyclop player rocket

[worldly valve]

but if it works even kinda thats pretty fuckin neat

c2c would be awesome multiplayer tbh

[past geyser]

reika might road block it XD

[worldly valve]

well ive lost ccess to my shared copy of silksong....i guess ill upate and continue

that would be so sad

one person can just gather endlessly while the other explores

busted sauce

[civic grotto]

I know, I am expecting unexpected consequences

https://tenor.com/view/ramiz-dayı-gif-2404480433565040124

[forest valve]

very expected consequences, because mp is not moddable wlel

[civic grotto]

I know

[pearl pier]

so just started, im curious how you are meant to get acid mushroom mushroom samples safely

[barren oar]

you can grow them yourself

[pearl pier]

so if they are in planter beds they don't explode?

[barren oar]

think so

either that or you'll have defenses against the damage later, im truly not too sure now

in a planter they shouldnt have the chain reaction though, anyhow

[trail ether]

...seeing as C2C does not change how acid mushrooms behave whatsoever, did you just...never realize they were farmable?

[barren oar]

you do not need to do so in vanilla ever, either

[karmic drum]

@worldly valve the adhd calls. It tells me to play c2c again 😂

[past geyser]

Trust meeee save yourself

Hahaha ADHD we don't have that kind of attention span unless we're medicated

All jokes

[karmic drum]

I am medicated. And I'm practicing self compassion based coexistence

[forest valve]

you should love yourself, now

[karmic drum]

Embracing all my adhd has to offer with open arms and fusing with my asperges type autism

[karmic drum]

Working on it 😅

[past geyser]

Problem with the medicine is it can heighten some things so if you get depressed when you're on it, it can be pretty enhanced. But it also fixes a lot of your mood problems.

[worldly valve]

I recognize this is from a place of compassion, but consider that lines like this are often as helpful as "just be happy" "that's nothing to be mad about" "dont be ssd"

Emotion states and actions dont always fully align

[forest valve]

i know

[pearl pier]

are bone sharks meant to chase me down forever?

[fiery fiber]

Yes

Try flashing high beams at it. Sometimes makes then go away. But not 100% sure on that

[pearl pier]

I realised they were farmable just never did in the original game, mainly was concerned about the damage they did when I collected samples

good god phytoplankton either kills me nigh instantly or doesn't

[unreal flame]

i don't believe farmed mushrooms explode

[pearl pier]

yeah I realised they dont

[pearl pier]

so uhh, is instantly dying whenever I leave my base and there happens to be phytoplankton intended???

im assuming so because it seems to only spawn outside hatches but like

I have a feeling this isn't intentional

[barren oar]

Good Luck And Have Fun 😃

...come to think of it, why do they accumulate at entrances

is it the lights bleeding outside from inside? that would make them accumulate at windows too, and would mean they wouldn't if the base is unpowered

[forest valve]

they like light

[forest valve]

iirc reika makes the descriptions of creatures actually valid

things like reapers going after noise detection, and bonesharks going after ligt

[pearl pier]

ok I keep gettign stuck at 0 morale at it is confusing me

like when I rest itll increase by a bit for like a single second before almost instantly dropping to 0

[trail ether]

is it really "instant"

[pearl pier]

its like 1 second

[trail ether]

that is not decreasing from a rest - you never slept - and does not look like it is even increasing at all, but instead that is the bar smoother - same reason losing 70 health causes an animation - handling sudden jumps in the amount

however I have no idea why your morale is briefly being set to a large value only to immediately - and likely correctly - be restored to zero

[pearl pier]

so do I need to find a bed?

[trail ether]

I only mentioned beds because you mentioned resting

and sleeping is a cause of morale going up

but it is not the primary mechanism by which morale is controlled

[pearl pier]

I think it would help if there was documentation of a basic mechanic like this in game, though I am very aware that isn't your jam

[trail ether]

It is meant to be mostly transparent

the morale system serves two primary goals, with everything else being "bonus" that does not result in a significant influence on the overall system:

[pearl pier]

it also resets back to zero when I do things like have a varied diet

[trail ether]

1. make base decor matter

2. punish metagaming, ie strategies that obviously do not make in-universe (or balance) sense but which nonetheless are convenient by way of leveraging game limitations or implementation quirks

the need for food variety is a good example of the latter

[trail ether]

you mean it does the same thing as your video, ie increases and then is immediately set to zero again?

[pearl pier]

yeah

[trail ether]

well fortunately I built in a debugger

run the command debugMorale true

this will spam the upper left text with all modifications to morale

[pearl pier]

oh yeah where do I run commands? I'm pretty new to subnautica

[trail ether]

`

[pearl pier]

I obviously have no clue how to interpret stuff so uhh

[trail ether]

you are losing 40% per frame

more than that actually

what the hell is going on

[trail ether]

wait never mind % vs out of 1 mixup

still losing 0.4% a frame is huge

[trail ether]

I am going to make a test build

[trail ether]

@pearl pier

try this

and then run debugMoraleDetail all

this will dump a ton of stuff to the log, including every single reason for morale adjustment

while that is running, trigger the thing you show in the video with it going up and down

and then run debugMorale false to turn it off again

then upload the log file somewhere it can be browsed

[pearl pier]

Ill test it out tommorrow I need yo sleep

[pearl pier]

Ok so I inevietably fixed it, I think what was happening was that morale loss might have gone yo extreme numbers? Like it was at -70 when I first started but after doing a bunch of morale boosting methods it went back to a more reasoble loss metric?

Ill give that file a try after doing a shit ton of morale losing shit

[trail ether]

there is another bug i just noticed

any cinematic - ie where you lose control of the camera - resets morale to 75

this is fixed but not yet released

[pearl pier]

ok it seems ot be fixed now

im trying to find the log now

[pearl pier]

atleast a log that actually records the morale stuff

[pearl pier]

are the dunes meant to just passively drain morale?

[barren oar]

its a pretty scary biome

well, as far as ryley is concerned

[karmic drum]

I'd be just a little shidded if I were surrounded by giant peppermint bitch sea lizards, territorial sand sharks, annoying ass crabs with anger management problems, and was down so deep I couldn't see the sun anymore

[pearl pier]

Thats true

[karmic drum]

But from a code mechanical standpoint?

Yea I got no clue

[barren oar]

the depression over time is intentional

[karmic drum]

Depression over time.... fuck off 😂 😂 😂 😭 😭 😭

[worldly valve]

Lolololol

[trail ether]

was applying a couple of fixes and decided to add a little gag

[barren oar]

hah

i think the first 9 shouldnt decrease it though

having rescue coming in not even half a day when you've survived for much longer than that should be good news

maybe even with a slight morale boost at the beginning

the same way the sunbeam gives you a morale boost(?) until they get Fucking Shot Down

[forest valve]

LMAO

[trail ether]

i will do that

[forest valve]

also leave a little morale for the "hours"

at first it drops down slowly, tho it could be that riley knows that it would specify less time, maybe he thought it was 9 minutes

[pearl pier]

After struggling through completing chromaticraft it is nice that areas have a log telling you if there is still more to do in an area

[trail ether]

funny you say that because C2C takes heavy inspiration from ChC

[karmic drum]

Ah. We have a Reika veteran in the chat 😊

Welcome friend

[karmic drum]

A shame I lost my Java account. Otherwise I might give it a look

I'll jot that down for later once I feel like buying a new account

[worldly valve]

Hows your run going void

[unreal flame]

the logs definitely help (and it also helps that Subnautica is a better fit for this sort of gameplay experience)

[karmic drum]

Didn't actually go back yet lol

[worldly valve]

Luls

[trail ether]

by logs you mean the exploration findings?

because i had an idea like that for CC a long time ago

but it is very unclear how that would work with procedural - and thus entirely unpredictable - generation

you cannot know where anything is relative to anything else

[unreal flame]

that's part of what i mean in terms of "better fit"

though at the same time, you could probably still base a findings log on biomes of interest

"there is more to search for in this biome"
and then categories like "the nether" "plains" "forest" "rainbow forest" "underground" "ocean"

[trail ether]

except odds are high that a given biome is not the best place to find X, and odds are decent that a given instance of it does not even contain X

that is why we use such huge territories on the DR server

to make the odds of a player missing any given X low

but even still it has happened

this is part of the reasoning behind the stronghold changes

[unreal flame]

this is probably super performance-sucky but "if the player spends too long within a given area away from "their bases" try and tell them what they're looking for might not be here"

[trail ether]

define bases

at runtime

overall though distance ch3cks are cheap

[unreal flame]

easiest would be "radius around a set of known "machine" objects

[trail ether]

that however is not

though

some CC things do have saved locations

[unreal flame]

just store their pos when placed and delete it when not

casting table is a good bet, for instance

[trail ether]

most obviously the crytal network

[unreal flame]

ah, good bet

[trail ether]

far too many ways that gets out of sync

[unreal flame]

of minimal importance overall

ideally you have at least a couple machines that would be 'coincident' and nobody's moving base once they've settled down

[trail ether]

not at all

i have been repeatedly burned this way

[unreal flame]

worst case you end up with a distance check to a position that used to have a machine on it

[trail ether]

that is the other issue - lots of people make a dedicated CC base nowhere near anything else

[unreal flame]

or no distance check to a machine that does exist (this is alleviated by other machines existing)

[unreal flame]

toss in some Rotarycraft machines and maybe stuff from one or two other mods (AE2, thaum, tinkers, mekanism etc)

fallback case: if the player is spending the majority of their time in an area, define that as a "base" as well

or have something ask the player if this is a base

[trail ether]

none of those cache their locations

[trail ether]

why do you think TE movers crash the crystal network

[trail ether]

base definition block?

reminds me of a very old idea i had for CC

[unreal flame]

Maybe

[trail ether]

not a block but a perimeter fence

you know how some Horizons bases have tresspass zones around them

defined by a fence of spires

[unreal flame]

Again you’d really only need to intercept block placement and destruction

[trail ether]

there are way too many nonstandard ways that happens

there is not one core function for it

[unreal flame]

For the same given block?

[trail ether]

hell a mod could direct edit the chunk data, and some do

[trail ether]

yes

removal is dictated by the remover not the block

[unreal flame]

Right

Again that doesn’t entirely matter that much unless you’re defining fairly off objects as “base machines”

Like quarries or digiminers

[trail ether]

what

any block can be removed weirdly

and i have seen exactly that

many many times

this is how you get half-complete yet complete multiblocks

nonstandard removal that bypasses the usual "listeners"

[unreal flame]

If you’re checking against a stored position for an object that no longer exists, that’s perfectly acceptable as long as that position is still likely to be within the player’s base

[trail ether]

true

[pearl pier]

I think my main issue with CC was trying to find enough fragments without twilight forest, but with twilight forest the process was so insanely easy that it felt cheaty.

[pearl pier]

Like when its meant to be slowly finding fragments in locations but then twilight forest ore hills just have tons of them it kinda removes the point

||other issue was just how vague certain mechanics purposefully are, I never worked out what the locus actually does but I was atleast proud of myself for finishing the mod even if I cheesed sudoku||

[pearl pier]

ok so im trying to find a way into this specific section of the mountain cave near lifepod 14 that has thermal vents and drooping stingers blocking the way, I found an alternate "entrance" but it has a current blocking entry

I feel like this area is important for several reasons but hard to know if im meant to come back later or not

[barren oar]

currents are not all-powerful

[forest valve]

where do you think a good place to make a base would be?

[unreal flame]

…in Minecraft?

[forest valve]

oh i thought we were talking about c2c 😭

[unreal flame]

nah reika just likes making mods about C's

[trail ether]

by near anything else I meant not to things in the world but to other infrastructure

CC in particular seems to frequently inspire the creation of dedicated "CC bases" that are hundreds, thousands, or even infinite (ie another dimension) blocks from the main base

to some degree I get it, as half the things need to be outside, there are a lot of very large multiblocks, and the main structures all need access to the crystal network; I do a very mild version of that, putting it 50-100 blocks away in a dedicated "side area" of the base

however one of the most often cited reasons for this isolation is lag sequestration, which is baseless

people see large flashy renders and assume laggy

but CC areas have fewer TESRs, by a factor of 20, than say a RotaryCraft area or most other "machine areas", as the latter are dense arrangements of machines, each one being a TESR, compared to one TESR with big FX surrounded by 500 basic blocks

[pearl pier]

jesus christ this databox is being defended by 3 repears

WAIT NO FOUR

I have no clue how I am meant to get this other then brute force killing the leviathans

[pearl pier]

ITS A BROKEN DATA BOX??????

jesus christ

now im even more confused how you are meant to get this

[karmic drum]

oooooh

I see she had to make that one a bit tougher xD

[karmic drum]

leave it be fore now. trust me when I say you won't need it till later

[forest valve]

u gotta repair a tiny bit, then back off and stay still

[barren oar]

it breaks back if you dont repair it for like a second or two

might even be continuous damage you can barely outheal, im not too sure

[forest valve]

ohh right thats how ur supposed to fix it

very clever

[barren oar]

i honestly dont know how you're supposed to do it, because even the somewhat obvious solution ||of bringing a stasis rifle with you is not viable, as it'll just break down while you shoot with the like 4s shoot charging time the rifle has||

||and decoys obviously last for much less time than you need to in order to fix it properly||

unless stuff changed since i last played around with it

which is, of course, highly plausible

oh wow its been almost a month since then

[forest valve]

i know the solution, tho we're told not to spoil, not exactly spoilers tho

||let's just say the descriptions of other power sources for handheld items could have unique effects, according to the PDA||

[barren oar]

||yes you are literally unable to fix it without the azure battery on the repair tool past like 2%||

[forest valve]

damn what

[barren oar]

||...oh my god is the solution to azure battery the flashlight and flashbang the reapers into oblivion||

i'd be surprised if that even does anything lol its such a waste of a tool

[pearl pier]

oh yeah any hint to which biome the plant I need to unlock microfilter is in? Because ive been going through all of them wacking shit with my knife but haven't unlocked anything yet

[barren oar]

its not obtained from a plant

and as usual, biome exploration logs are your best friend

maybe you should look close and scan around for what might be useful in one of them?

[pearl pier]

ok i missearched earlier lol

[barren oar]

you're going to want at least a seed of all things anyhow

not that they're all used, but rather that many are and you won't know in advance which

better to be prepared than be blindsided by some plant you now have to search for

[pearl pier]

to be fair with the second part half the time shit doesn't come up on the scanner until you have already found it because you can't scan for anything that hasn't loaded yet

[barren oar]

yeah it kinda sucks LOL but its better than nothing

there was this mod that makes the room remember i think

https://www.nexusmods.com/subnautica/mods/406 ?

[pearl pier]

ngl I am kinda getting bored of needing to setup a lantern fruit tree literally everywhere just because my moral drops to zero while exploring sometimes

like im eating a diverse set of shit but my moral just drops so much faster then my hunger does so most of the food I eat is exclusively for morale

like if i skim azurites electricty field it just instantly drops to zero meanwhile my health is still maxe

[pearl pier]

yeah no this one is

[barren oar]

what did you try?

[pearl pier]

oh wait it prolly isn't, its just that getting lightly tickled by the fire damage in that location instantly set my morale to 0

FUN

[pearl pier]

I don't have much I can try

beyond max morale seaglide

[barren oar]

well, perhaps your feeble body may not be enough?

[pearl pier]

so great I need to go find the microfilter

love having to explore the entire map for one single thing

[barren oar]

haha you'll do that a lot in c2c

[pearl pier]

idk if I am going to play again until I get a proper explanation on why losing morale seems so insanely variable

the past 5-10 hours of play time it barely even budged

and now its just dissapearing at the drop of a hat

[trail ether]

I was able to do it fine in my playthrough

somewhat hair-raising yes

but perfectly doable

[trail ether]

morale is still a work in progress, being very new, but that is in regard to balancing, not outright issues like "randomly all disappearing"

and it does not ambiently increase (or decrease) on its own without cause

so "it never budged" is to be expected if nothing was acting upon it

[errant cairn]

when was your last play through

also whats this new morale system? from what ive already read, ||you take damage you lose it, to gain it you eat???||

and whats the fucking point?!?!?!

[trail ether]

February and March

[trail ether]

no

[pearl pier]

One time I went into the mushroom tree and had full morale going in the it droppef to zero on the way out, it didn't do that the next time I went in?

[dry estuary]

Is it intended for phytoplankton clusters to despawn after partially being used to fill a tonguelily's material progress bar? (10-15%)

[frigid roost]

been considering trying this mod out as an alternative to deathrun, i feel it might be much more interesting. only issue so far is figuring out where/how to acquire the dependencies, some of the links are broken but i've found what i needed so far

been a while since i've touched legacy

i'm especially fascinated by the "liquid breathing" mechanic, and that led me down a rabbit hole discovering that it's actually been researched and considered IRL as a possible solution to allow for deeper diving without submersible support

[frigid roost]

with the realization that there is now a morale system (anyone have any documentation on it?), i can only imagine having your lungs filled with fluid and feeling like you're constantly drowning before getting used to it would cause quite a drop in morale

[unreal flame]

Oh god, please don’t suggest a realism change

[frigid roost]

oh no....

what have i done?

uhhhh what does this button do? it doesn't say anything about its purpose when i hover or click on it, it just asks "are you sure you want to do this?"

goddamn, okay then alterra

[trail ether]

read the databank

[frigid roost]

ohhhh is that the emergency rescue warp?

yep the message that just popped up confirms it, thanks

[dry estuary]

from what I know, morale mainly affects swim speed, how fast you lose hunger or thirst and how fast you're able to fabricate stuff. eating too much of the same food causes drops in morale along with getting hurt, while eating a variety of foods boosts it. I've probably missed some things but thats what ive noticed so far in my playthrough.

[worldly valve]

You did evil, or good

Seoensing on your point of view

In partially responsible for some changes!

So cheeers!

Join the club!

I wonder if reika fixed my laat cheese

I made a shark tank

Much wasier than...tbh im not sure i k ow the "intended" method anymore

We used to think it was stasis rifle there, but the nee changes might not make that viable anymore

I wonder if reika has considered lowering yhe "total" amount required to repair on those since now they get damaged

So morale actuwlly makes me tend to carry a little bit of food around now

But all its really done mechanically is make trips leaving basr a bit shorter

[trail ether]

this is ignoring the main mechanic that drives morale

[worldly valve]

Honestky

Morale can replace food

One currently would be hard pressed to fins themaelves ever falling unswr like 70 foos

Food

Ans 70 means your morake is 0

Lwast when i laat fucked around

[trail ether]

that is not true at all

[worldly valve]

It was early on

Tho i wasnt thinking inside base to be fair

But outside a base

Moreale drpps pretty darn fast

You usually wanna pop a fish every minute or less due to it

Water is still relevent outside base

But i have a hard time inagine a scenario where you hit 0 food before 0 moral

I dont know how much slower one is with morale tho

I know being below 20 food is alnost a death sentence on its own

Since now the averagr snail outpaces one below 20 food

Admittedly.im working from at least 3 patches ago info

Probably more

[dry estuary]

oh, base decorations right?

[frigid roost]

unfortunately i'm now having this issue quite frequently as well

[dry estuary]

I had that issue as well, turns out this only happens during a ||nanocarbon spawn||, so until you are able to create a ||falling materials detector module|| for the scanner room you can't really do much other than save as frequently as possible. After the ||nanocarbon spawns|| saving is perfectly functional. 👍

[frigid roost]

huh. i'm quite early on in my save with no idea what ||nanocarbon|| is

[dry estuary]

its from a rare event where ||some material can be seen burning up in the sky and landing somewhere,|| when you go and check where it landed you get greeted with ||nanocarbon|| which is used for later recipes like ||hull plating||

[frigid roost]

weird, that event has definitely not happened in my save yet

wonder if it has something to do with having both bepinex and QMM on legacy branch

[barren oar]

qmm (in its current state);is a bepinex plugin so you cannot have qmm without bepinex

[frigid roost]

ahhh okay good to know i'm not doing something stupid there lol

[barren oar]

you could drop your logs here, so reika could potentially look at fixing whatever is stopping you from saving

though i cant say i remember which one is the logs specifically

[frigid roost]

would it do me well to use an old bepinex version from before the living large update?

[frigid roost]

here's another message i've already shared with my logs: #1411016433764270222 message

[dry estuary]

its usually signalled by ||a loud sound (crackling) near the surface ish area and seeing something burning up in the atmosphere in that direction|| but from what ive observed the save issue occurs straight after a warning from the ||falling materials detection module (an upgrade for the scanner room which tells you a countdown and shows you where the next nanocarbon spawns)|| rather than when the visual and audio cues occur.

[barren oar]

bepinex itself is a general unity utility which has no connection with subnautica so that should not matter, but as for tobey's pack i havent heard of latest being unusable for legacy by any means...

you could try i guess but i doubt that'd be the issue, really

oh the exception unfortunately only mentions a generic component field save handler

[frigid roost]

problem, i can't find a version of tobey's bepinex pack released before 2.0 was

[barren oar]

probably doesn't matter then

[frigid roost]

yeh

[frigid roost]

does at least mention something from Reika so hopefully that helps her track it down?

[barren oar]

CFS is reika's approach to saving, yes - its convenient in that she doesn't have to do much work for every component in particular, and it instead handles the dirty work - however, this also means that if one errors, it isn't very helpful as to which component is the culprit

[frigid roost]

ahhhh

[barren oar]

@trail ether could you add a try/catch when a component field save handler is serializing? that'd help in at least figuring out where it may go wrong, because I'd assume you probably dont want to follow through with saving at that point as its in an "invalid" state (see replied-to message)

[frigid roost]

for now i'll probably keep playing, saving frequently, and uploading my log whenever the save error does happen - maybe there's a pattern to it that could be found

[frigid roost]

also, feel free to ping me if/when this update is pushed out so i may help test it

[frigid roost]

got it again! last thing i did was exit my seabase, swim around the shallows and grab some fish, then re-enter and try to save - luckily only lost 3 minutes this time because i've been saving every second possible

[frigid roost]

here's another one. unfortunately lost the exploration of a whole wreck this time

[barren oar]

both seem to have the same exception, which is as useful as the first time unfortunately

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at ReikaKalseki.DIAlterra.SaveSystem+ComponentFieldSaveHandler`1[C].save (PrefabIdentifier pi) [0x0003b] in <a0741991c546451b8e817168ec8188ca>:0 
  at ReikaKalseki.DIAlterra.SaveSystem.handleSave () [0x000c2] in <a0741991c546451b8e817168ec8188ca>:0 
  at (wrapper delegate-invoke) <Module>.invoke_void()
  at SMLHelper.V2.Patchers.IngameMenuPatcher.InvokeSaveEvents () [0x00009] in <21ae6a9b90624ee6a507253882306786>:0 
  at (wrapper dynamic-method) IngameMenu.DMD<IngameMenu::CaptureSaveScreenshot>(IngameMenu)
  at IngameMenu+<SaveGameAsync>d__40.MoveNext () [0x0006c] in <b20a3a5ada624fe2a1501d935cca65f7>:0 
  at UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine.InvokeMoveNext (System.Collections.IEnumerator enumerator, System.IntPtr returnValueAddress) [0x00027] in <11d76d5f2da344218c391ad1f20978b4>:0

and i doubt it'd get any clearer with any new logs, either

[magic shard]

I've reinstalled every, thrice. Adding and substracting mods trying to pinpoint the cause, to no avail.
So my best guess is that it's something with Sea to Sea, but quite hard to replicate, otherwise, there would be more people affected .

[trail ether]

yes that is the cause and I have already fixed it, but it can be fixed by using the runtime editor to delete all FallingMaterialSpawner objects

[trail ether]

see above

[trail ether]

yes

[dry estuary]

cheers 👍

[frigid roost]

but wait that event hasn't happened for me yet, huh
regardless, will acquire runtime editor and try this next time it happens

[frigid roost]

will doing this mess up any progression?

[forest valve]

it shouldnt i dont feel

maybe just reset all ||nanocarbons spawned|| but thats it

[barren oar]

reika wouldn't mention things that would mess your save up i think

[forest valve]

ea

yea

[barren oar]

she'd know her own mods best, after all

[forest valve]

its prob due to subnautica having "chunks" like minecraft chunks, and when u unload a chunk, the items are still there but are frozen in time, and they wont despawn either

but they still gotta be saved

[trail ether]

the entity you are deleting is the queueing agent for the event

[frigid roost]

that is fair lol

[frigid roost]

got it - will report back on how this works

[dry estuary]

I just figured out how to get through the captains quarters door. never have I ever felt so satisfied after being stumped on something

[frigid roost]

alright! save glitch is happening again, but little does it know.... i came prepared this time >:3
.... well, partially prepared. first time i'm using the runtime editor, and unsure how i'd go about deleting all FallingMaterialSpawners

got this far, time to figure out what this means

huh. i suddenly have gained even more respect for modders who know how to deal with this shit

[trail ether]

use the scene browser

you could use REPL but the former is easier

[frigid roost]

YEP THAT DID IT >:3

[frigid roost]

the scene browser was indeed much easier for a first-time user. object deleted and now my game saves flawlessly, thank you so much for your help

now to figure out why my morale keeps dropping in my starter base even though i'm trying to decorate it every chance i get

does the interior size/how cramped it is play a part in it?

[worldly valve]

Hard to get strqight answers from reika

Ahea protective of her nechanics

Kinda gotta make it aparent you have solved it but its not working

I think you have the most commubity knowledge on morale atm

Outside of reddit but i dont scour there much, ans you still may be ahead of the game

[trail ether]

no

[worldly valve]

Ooo sweet

Keeo jotting down your obawrvations salira

I think you have good ones

You have bettwr notea that like 70% of the last major disussion mechanic

[frigid roost]

..... i literally just started with this mod??!?!?

[worldly valve]

You habe goood notes on morale

Morale is a new mecbanic relatively

[frigid roost]

ah

[worldly valve]

I waa being vague on the previous major discussion too

Nit rhat sceollibg up wont find it

Hows your suffering going so far sali?

[frigid roost]

i will admit, the (apparent) lack of methods to get my morale to not take a nosedive by existing inside my seabase is tempting me to metagame anyways by making a beeline towards ||the floating island for the interior plants and larger multipurpose room||

possibly just a skill issue but i do wish there was a bit more guidance on this, though i understand it's a new mechanic that's still being worked on

sidenote - this time i only had to delete FallingMaterialSpawner(Clone) and left a FallingMaterialSpawner (not-clone apparently) intact, and that allowed my game to save

[frigid roost]

-# why is my compass spinning why is my compass spinning why is my compass spinning why is my compass spinning

.... i think it may have been caused by the ||moon being eclipsed by the planet in the sky??||

[barren oar]

the (clone)-less one is the "prefab", an inactive object that all the objects (of this type) you see in-game are based on, and the (clone) one is the actual object you see in-game
i think it may be short for "pre-fabricated", as in its constructed earlier on such that subnautica doesn't have to recreate it from scratch every single time and can just use that as the template

[barren oar]

haha yeah compass is damn near useless in c2c

[frigid roost]

but... but

c2c is supposed to make things more useful, right??

-# ..... right?

besides it only happened for a short time

[barren oar]

its less about making things more useful and more about increasing depth of various mechanics (or otherwise through new mechanics)

the compass is way too useful and c2c is instead trying to put the focus on keeping watch and being mindful of your surroundings for navigation

at least, that's how i interpret it

[frigid roost]

imo the amount of morale you lose whenever you take damage should depend on how much damage you're taking.... it's slightly frustrating to lose basically all my morale from something that does like 5 damage to me over 10 seconds just because it's spread out over several ticks of up to 1 damage, and thus be confined to unbearably slow swim speed

[frigid roost]

and i just learned the hard way about making outposts so i can save closer to where i'm exploring in case i die

[barren oar]

yep outposts are goated

so many benefits and cheap to boot (goated reefbalance lowering the cost of a room to 3 titanium)

[trail ether]

it does

                float amt = dmg.getAmount();
                if (amt > 0.01 && !IntroVignette.isIntroActive) { //the panel to the face actually DOES DAMAGE...
                    float dmgRef = Mathf.Clamp(amt, 0, 50);
                    MoraleSystem.instance.shiftMorale(-Mathf.Lerp(5, 80, dmgRef / 50F));
                }```

[frigid roost]

??!??!

[barren oar]

???? it does ???

what the fuck lol why'd they make it like that

whats the range for morale again, 0-1000?

i assume not 0-100 because 5% morale loss from 0.01 damage sounds like a lot

well whatever from stuff like 1 damage

[trail ether]

0-100

it is percent

[barren oar]

hm

[trail ether]

nothing actually does <1 damage

really <10 is rare\

[barren oar]

poison?

last i recall thats pretty slow acting

though i guess youre no longer Forced To Tank Plankton ever since the rigidbody fix so you dont really have any real sources of poison aside from stinger

this probably makes || obsidian || a hell of a lot more painful to get though

since heat damage is constant and small, and you could barely get enough without ending up at a body composition of approximately 90% bandage before the morale system

oh my god kyanite's gotta be ass too now

not like it wasnt already since you and the vehicle would melt in seconds... unless that's been changed since?

[unreal flame]

It’s actually just a random event

I’ve suggested that it should involve some VFX in the sky though. ||its supposed to be a geomagnetic storm||

[frigid roost]

ohhh okay, that makes a lot more sense than what I thought. yeah that could probably eliminate a lot of confusion as to why it's happening
-# also it'd just be cool as hell :3

[trail ether]

VFX is not really something i can do

[unreal flame]

I believe in you

[trail ether]

i must say i have no sympathy and a hell of a lot of derision for those people who get completely stumped by the various keycode doors in C2C

because they just pull the (vanilla) codes off the wiki, and then when that fails to work due to C2C randomizing them, they are too dumb to think of reading the PDA page and instead bitch at me about the door being "broken"

[unreal flame]

You could maybe pull something like “previous code not accepted” as a popup

Incidentally ||is every other code-operated door cannonable||

[trail ether]

no

[unreal flame]

||Perhaps it may be better to have that door activate with the code, but then fail to actually open (with sparks and a fail message on the touch console to match)||

[trail ether]

except that is not why the code does not work

and I have a whole PDA page written to justify the disagree in-universe

[unreal flame]

I guess?

[trail ether]

a popup where? just in the game UI? that does not make any sense in-universe

[unreal flame]

Alongside some kind of voice, yes

[trail ether]

the popup still does not make sense

a voice does

would have to be a distinct voice from the PDA, cyclop,s and seamoth

but this idea does have precedent

think the AI on the radio

"pod has sunk beyond safe diving distance. do not attempt retrieval without submersible support."

[unreal flame]

Popups happen for any voice

[trail ether]

oh you mean subtitles

by popup I thought you meant like a modal

[unreal flame]

Oh

[trail ether]

like the "you died" one

[unreal flame]

Yeah a subtitle and voice

[trail ether]

subtitles happen automatically

as long as the voice has an associated StoryGoal

which it would anyway

[unreal flame]

You’d even get to choose your own TTS and filter schema

[trail ether]

it just needs to be the appropriate type

i only know a few free ones

like the google set

which got a lot more limited recently

I mentioned the paywalling of A.D.A. recently

[unreal flame]

there are ample choices regardless of paywalling

Or perhaps in spite of

[trail ether]

i would need to look around

but this is implementable

I do not know how to filter a TTS to sound synth though

[unreal flame]

Probably varies from voice to voice

[past geyser]

Lee has the pda site you can make the pda voice for your use

https://subnauticapdavoice.com/

Made three

[fiery fiber]

Me just make wrong code spam 6 gist Levi's 😋

Btw is there a cool down on save? I'm getting a weird thing where I can't save. No error just nothing happens. It's intermittent. Sometimes I can save again and then so.etimes I can't. No crash or anything tho

[trail ether]

scroll up

[pine ginkgo]

What has been added since like 2 months ago

I might make a new save

[trail ether]

wait for the new update coming in a few minutes

[karmic drum]

New update?

[trail ether]

just a bunch of fixes

including for the fallingmaterial save issue

[trail ether]

this sounds nothing like the real thing

and besides the onboard aurora AI would have its own voice anyway

[trail ether]

I did a stupid

https://i.imgur.com/qBRxADN.png

that converts it from a field to a property

and so https://i.imgur.com/bAltwzw.png

[frigid roost]

i've been saved!!!

[frigid roost]

okay for some reason my morale was instantaneously nuked from 100% to 0% once i got to the ||floating island||. i haven't taken any damage and i'm well fed and hydrated

update: reloaded my save to test, and it happens right when i pick up the ||Rendezvous Voicelog||. it indeed was an instantaneous drop from 100 to 0, and since then it just stays stuck at 0% - anything i do to raise it gets negated in seconds

i don't know if this is intentional or not

[worldly valve]

That sounds a bit strong

By chance do you have thermo blade?

[frigid roost]

i don't, haven't unlocked the mod station yet

[worldly valve]

Well i had some pocket cheese for ua but

[trail ether]

pun intended?

[trail ether]

the magnitude needs to be adjusted

[trail ether]

but overall this should make sense, perhaps not 0% but a lasting malus

[unreal flame]

argument: by the point you get to ||the rendezvous||, ryley should at least be used to some level of disappointment

would such a malus be "morale decays to x value faster for y length of time"

[forest valve]

ooh what about when ||the sunbeam gets blown to bits||

[unreal flame]

instant 0

[forest valve]

yea

u just saw ||a bunch of dudes get blown by something with the theoretical power of two tsar bombas||

tho youd have to time it for the ||explosion||

[unreal flame]

regardless of how jaded ryley would be at that point, you're still witnessing ||actual deaths, and the reason for why your ass is stuck here in the first place||

[unreal flame]

actually it might already do that

[forest valve]

oh also, speaking of, does ||ryley get reduced morale everytime he picks up a pda and it ends with static or a "im not gonna make it"||

||or from any of the survivors||

[unreal flame]

||if that does happen, it should be reduced by a smaller amount for each PDA in such a category||

[forest valve]

yea bc he gets used to it

[barren oar]

||fairly certain theres no dampening systems, since reika said its unwieldy...? or difficult...? one of the two||

[unreal flame]

||the moment the gun is deactivated you should get a permanent bonus to morale||

[forest valve]

should also drop for ||all stages of infection he gets told of he has||

[unreal flame]

that or ||curing||

[barren oar]

||curing does make you happier||

[unreal flame]

||former for "i'm no longer trapped and can leave at my leisure" and latter for "i'm no longer dying of the Kills You Disease"||

[unreal flame]

permanently?

[barren oar]

for the record, as far as i can tell, all code for the system is in ||https://github.com/ReikaKalseki/SeaToSea/blob/main/Systems/MoraleSystem.cs|| (obvious spoilers ahead)

[barren oar]

ye

[unreal flame]

huh, fair enough

[forest valve]

||as a joke his morale should drop to fuck when he sees the sea emperor, then slowly go back to normal and go up when he gets told hes close to curing the planet, and also himself||

[barren oar]

hah i like that

[forest valve]

OHG ALSO

[worldly valve]

Thats so late in the game🥲

May barely notice it but yea

[unreal flame]

at minimum, a point where you no longer get morale reductions from it?

[forest valve]

||each piece of the rocket should increase your morale, and also scanning everything in the game as alterra tells you to||

||well i guess every vehicle crafted should also increase morale lmao||

[unreal flame]

||every piece of the rocket improves morale, until you get the checklist notification||

[worldly valve]

That reminds my of ny suffering summoni g plan

[forest valve]

is that an idea you got or does that already happen

[unreal flame]

idea

[forest valve]

because thats some serious trolling

i love it

[worldly valve]

Tho i need to 100% the silksong before i cab sunmon for suffering

[forest valve]

implement that shit right now

[barren oar]

||rocket gives you permanent +10 when you finish it||

[unreal flame]

that's like half of all the ideas I send reika

[forest valve]

good

[unreal flame]

good luck, which act are you in

[worldly valve]

About to hit 3

[unreal flame]

any endings yet?

[worldly valve]

I looked uo a few flea locations but managed to find all the wishes

First ending

||weaver queen||

[unreal flame]

you can get a second ending if you ||haven't had an abortion yet|| nor entered act 3

[worldly valve]

I am a bit aware of one of those 2

Didnt know about the othwe

Ive looked up a couple things for locations, regretabky once because the guide started with "before going here, do this, in x, find x and do x"

I was so mad

I just wanted to know where a bench eas😂

First sinner was my favoutite boss so fsr

Cogwork dancers are a close second, i cant wait for an arena to be added where we fight a third dancer like sisters if battle

[worldly valve]

Oh you are refering to the same ending here

[unreal flame]

:)

[unreal flame]

||cursed child||

[worldly valve]

Ye. I discovered it by looking through chievos. I will replay to get it😂

[forest valve]

||somehow ppl were shocked that there was a child in her in the first place when they did the abortion||

[worldly valve]

But ya once i finish all my bosss fight swag, ill pop back in c2c and do my great suffering summoning

[unreal flame]

just don't try for it on a speedrun or steel soul ig

[worldly valve]

And also maybe try to see if i can get reika to trouble sboot the glirchy sunbeam debris

(I rrally really want that second nano lathing drone i was promised)

[worldly valve]

Yeeeee so healing be rough

[unreal flame]

||rough is an understatement (what healing)||

[mighty grail]

Just got back to playing c2c in a new save after a few months and

What's this morale thing...

Im a turtle

im guessing it has to do with the room decoration and such but damn is it hard early game

Morale stuck at 0 anytime im indoors makes it very painful to do anything at all

[forest valve]

eat unique shit, and u get morale

[mighty grail]

No yeah but any boost I get drops down to zero in like one minute if im indoors

[karmic drum]

You have to decorate your bases. Would you feel like you were in a good mood if you were stranded on an alien planet and surrounded by wildlife you don't understand outside and nothing but lifeless unthinking machines inside?

[mighty grail]

I figured

the thing is, getting decoration early game is very tricky

[karmic drum]

I mean... literally everything in c2c is a power creep lol. You have to have the self forgiveness and paitence to find the reward and satisfaction in whatever small edge you csn give yourself with whatever resources you have available.

[mighty grail]

I'm aware... it's not my first time playing
I just found it strange how this new mechanic is so restrictive especially in early game, where everything is slowest
Didn't expect reika to make it even more of a crawl

But hey I'm here for the pain, I guess

Still strange how it works

And how there's no explanation for it in the pda

[frigid roost]

yes, I'm going to pretend that was intended :3

[trail ether]

every PDA gives a boost followed by a fall

there is no system for "enough" but Khasar gets half penalty

[trail ether]

you do

as well as several other major milestones

[trail ether]

also already a thing

[trail ether]

including this

[unreal flame]

fair enough

[trail ether]

it does

[trail ether]

I kind of like the notification bit though

[trail ether]

that is NOT the primary mechanism

[mighty grail]

It's the only one I have available atm

[frigid roost]

yeah for a significant portion of the game it's the only way to tangibly and reliably raise it aside from just being outside (at least that i could find)

and even when you can start building a base, until you go to the ||floating island|| and get blueprints from the ||degasi base|| none of the "decoration" available to you from the nearby wrecks actually does anything which is weird

and being inside a base, even with windows and a place to sit and a table and such, and a picture frame, your morale just drops

[mighty grail]

Very fun

[frigid roost]

doesn't make sense to me how the escape pod doesn't drain morale while a basic seabase does - makes it unnecessarily frustrating to play in the beginning stages imo

[mighty grail]

Especially when you have pod drift on

[frigid roost]

oh god that's a thing???

[mighty grail]

sure is

[frigid roost]

https://tenor.com/view/trembling-fear-anxiety-scared-anime-girl-gif-14852653659199450230

f e a r

[mighty grail]

I turned it on but it hasnt drifted an inch and im 2 hours in

Maybe I did something wrong

[barren oar]

pod drift tax tbh

easily the worst mechanic in subnautica im afraid

[mighty grail]

Hm?

[barren oar]

i do believe other mods like deathrun also feature some pod drift option

its not a c2c exclusive mechanic

[mighty grail]

I dont remember it happening in deathrun

It just sinks

[barren oar]

i guess it'd be more accurate to call it the worst mechanic in modded subnautica

oh huh?

[frigid roost]

yeah, at least with default settings. dunno if it drifts with different ones in deathrun

[mighty grail]

Well its off by default for a reason

[mighty grail]

Oh yeah, I never changed my deathrun config cause I thought the default was the most challening

Maybe ill try it again one day

In another spawn too

I was blesssed with plateu spawn

[barren oar]

it is true that I can't see it mentioned on the modpage

[frigid roost]

i fear stepping up the difficulty settings from "Deathrun" to "Kharaa"

[mighty grail]

What's it change?

[barren oar]

maybe im just misremembering the sinking as drifting

[frigid roost]

no clue

[mighty grail]

One day I wish to do c2c with some deathrun mechanics

[frigid roost]

aside from it being harder lol

[mighty grail]

Not sure if theyre in any way compatible

[barren oar]

oh apparently drift was a vanilla feature they since removed

that makes a lot more sense

[mighty grail]

I'll have to give it a try...

I dont remember there being any options to make it even harder

[barren oar]

reddit post from 9yr ago mentioning it lol

im not old enough to have been part of the community back then idk where i remembered drift from

oh well case closed irregardless

[frigid roost]

gonna take a bit of fine tuning most likely, before C2C i was playing Prototype Expansion + Deathrun, and without revealing too much about the Prototype story itself there's a point where ||you get teleported from pretty deep underwater to the surface||, which would be completely fine normally - but since i had Deathrun as well it instantly killed me from decompression sickness

[barren oar]

i do think that some people have attempted it

and talked about their experiences here

i dont think theres anything that makes them inherently incompatible...

[mighty grail]

Well they both change recipes a bit so maybe that

[barren oar]

deathrun's personal depth crush system (which i think requires a special suit, yes?) may or may not be compatible with c2c's progression, though

i would assume reika added some level of compatibility since she did that for other (arguably less popular, and smaller) mods, but i havent looked into it

[frigid roost]

iirc in the compatibility notes Reika states that anything that messes with the vanilla recipes will most likely break?

[mighty grail]

"While it is still possible to play C2C alongside them, doing so is not going to resemble the designed gameplay, and this is not recommended."

So they might work, but they'll mess up the progression

[frigid roost]

so probably for a second or third playthrough

[mighty grail]

Yeah I'll see what I can do when I actualyl finish c2c for once

[barren oar]

hah that's fair

[mighty grail]

Deathrun was surprisingly quite easier than c2c

😂

Oh it started drifting alright!

[frigid roost]

what are you made of

[mighty grail]

Finally

[barren oar]

i think they're different types of mods altogether though, can't really compare them i think

deathrun mostly aims to make the game harder from what I've seen, c2c adds depth through puzzles

[mighty grail]

Deathrun was difficult in that it made everything have more steps and you had to approach every decision with caution

[barren oar]

and significantly increased resource costs so scanner rooms arent useless

[mighty grail]

But c2c makes me not know what to do at all times

[barren oar]

mhm c2c hides away a lot of information

[unreal flame]

there are only a few compat changes that'd need to be made for deathrun to be fully compatible with c2c

[mighty grail]

As with most subnautica runs, they become trivial once you get the stasis rifle
In deathrun it was quite achieveable without a lot of trouble

Here...

[mighty grail]

Ohhh that's great to hear

[barren oar]

you cant even use the stasis rifle half the time because it ends up dislodging solid structures like the degasi bases 💔

in c2c i mean

unless thats been patched out recently haven't checked

[unreal flame]

one: allowing the player to ignore nitrogen and safe depth mechanics with liquid breathing
two: adjusting for deathrun's battery changes (basically, accounting for the basic battery becoming a disposable one and the "basic, rechargeable" battery being added)

[frigid roost]

oh god i just looked at the stasis rifle recipe...

[mighty grail]

I wouldnt know
The time I did get it my game froze because I was using cameras

lost like 5 hours of progress

Yeaup

||avolite|| my beloved

[barren oar]

The Funny Mystery Ingredient

[frigid roost]

screams in "where the hell do i find all this"

[mighty grail]

Now how should I go about doing so?

[unreal flame]

patching deathrun

[mighty grail]

Easy! Just build 28 different scanner rooms

[frigid roost]

AND THE PROP CANNON IS UNCHANGED LOL

[unreal flame]

avolite is really funny because it's a reference nobody ever gets

[mighty grail]

No hablo

[barren oar]

...it is?

[mighty grail]

it is?

[frigid roost]

unless i'm misremembering the vanilla propulsion cannon recipe??

[unreal flame]

you would need to make a compatibility patch mod for deathrun + c2c

[barren oar]

propulsion damn near useless anyway it isnt that big of a deal lol

[unreal flame]

or prod reika enough but i've already tried that and it didn't work

[mighty grail]

Guess it'll stay a dream

Oh well

Surely subnautica 2 will be out by the time im done with c2c and the other deathrun run i want to do

[barren oar]

clueless

[frigid roost]

hold my cave crawlers

[barren oar]

oh yeah is the propulsion <-> repulsion in-inventory switching added now

i think it is right

[frigid roost]

also useful for yoinking materials from the ||brine in the lost river|| i think? haven't been there in C2C yet

[barren oar]

i dont know if its mentioned anywhere but it should be possible to switch between the two with a key press

before it was through the modif station so you could dupe batteries or void your battery by mistake lol funny mechanic

[frigid roost]

yeah every time i scroll up in the PDA i get a notification about me not having a propulsion cannon in my inventory lol

[mighty grail]

2028 here we go

[barren oar]

could be

[mighty grail]

oh thats actually pretty clever

[barren oar]

i should probably not spoil further though but yes that is you can do that

[mighty grail]

I like how I get adviced to save the game because it's been long since last I saved

Yet the only option is to save and quit

[barren oar]

Huh?

there should definitely be have a save button, do you have a mod that combines the two?

[mighty grail]

Huh

No I dont

Only sea to sea

[barren oar]

c2c very heavily warns against loading a save in the same game instance, so i really dont think thats a c2c addition

wouldnt make much sense to remind of saving but also only allow exitting to menu (and by extension, requiring a game restart to continue playing)

[mighty grail]

No yeah every time I wanna save I have to quit the game

Entirely

[barren oar]

yep

[mighty grail]

DIdnt know there was supposed to be a save button lol

[barren oar]

admittedly i cant check ingame right now, but i really dont see why it would've been changed

[frigid roost]

yeah uhhh

[barren oar]

skull emoji

hmm whats your mod list then @mighty grail

one of them is definitely merging the two

unless its a smlhelper feature...? heavily doubt it though

[mighty grail]

Huh

[frigid roost]

are you sure you're not in hardcore mode?

[barren oar]

...Oh

[mighty grail]

Oh yeah I am

Of course

[barren oar]

hardcore does that?

[mighty grail]

Figures

[frigid roost]

ahhhh yeah

[mighty grail]

That's it then

[barren oar]

right you could savescum otherwise

[mighty grail]

I just like to save in case there's a blackout or something

[barren oar]

oh ffs not being able to savescum makes one c2c mechanic so fucked

Good Luck With That Lol

[mighty grail]

And in case the cameras freeze the game...

[mighty grail]

Oh I never intended to play anything other than hardcore im ready for the suffering

[frigid roost]

the main purpose of a "hey you should save" reminder from C2C is pretty much made redundant by hardcore - in C2C normally, dying ||forces you to reload your last save||

[mighty grail]

I've never died in C2C before somehow

[frigid roost]

as i found out the hard way

[barren oar]

yep prevents suicide runs

[mighty grail]

Im very glad we have the new panic teleport feature

[trail ether]

I manually implemented mine

[barren oar]

no shit you did if its since been removed from vanilla

[trail ether]

but they are semantically barely compatible

[frigid roost]

what purpose does the panic teleport give btw? so far i can't think of a (common) situation that would call for it

[trail ether]

not to mention insanely punishing

[barren oar]

stuck at a base very far down with no real method of reaching the surface, for one

[mighty grail]

Makes it so youre able to escape a situation when youre about to die?

Without losing the entire save

[trail ether]

the worst offenders are all blocked from being used alongside C2C

[mighty grail]

At least for hardcore it seems like a blessing

[barren oar]

its designed for the very rare situations where you could have completely softlocked yourself otherwise

[mighty grail]

Ohh

[frigid roost]

ahhhh okay

[mighty grail]

Thats the point!

[trail ether]

https://starbounder.org/mediawiki/images/3/38/Avian_Ship_Upgrade_3.png

[trail ether]

so?

[barren oar]

this gives zero context besides its coloring

[frigid roost]

i just found it funny lol, though it makes sense for the amount of utility each gives you

[barren oar]

well and its use, lore-wise i guess

[trail ether]

hardcore mode?

[trail ether]

hardcore mode does that

[frigid roost]

prop cannon has its situational uses, while the stasis rifle is an almost universal get-out-of-jail-free card

[barren oar]

yeah as its been later determined

maybe hardcore shouldn't have the save popup then

[mighty grail]

yeah I kinda forgot that hardcore did this

been so long since i last played anything other than hardcore

[trail ether]

this

this happened to me several times

[frigid roost]

i'm guessing C2C makes that kind of situation much more likely?

[barren oar]

yep

[frigid roost]

so this is what i signed up for

this is fine

[mighty grail]

Never happened to me quite yet but I guess I havent gone too deep
Most progress I did was ||getting enough avolite for the stasis rifle||

[trail ether]

C2C is not a "make everything expensive and difficult" mod

[mighty grail]

Never finished my last playthrough after a very bad crash because of the cameras in the scanner room

[trail ether]

that is fundamentally missing the intent of the mod

[mighty grail]

Does feel like it
But I'm not complaining

I love it

[trail ether]

the purpose of C2C is to make much more of the game - especially the map itself - necessary for progression

it is even in the name

[mighty grail]

Which consequently, makes a lot of things more expensive and difficult

[trail ether]

but never for that purpose

but only as a means to an end

[mighty grail]

I like the means

[frigid roost]

yes i'm aware, i didn't mean to imply it was arbitrary

[mighty grail]

But I understand

[trail ether]

fundamentally the only diagetic way to make something necessary for progression is to either make it require materials found in some area or to use the various unlock systems (recipes, PDA codes, etc) and put that in the area

[mighty grail]

The ||void run outside of the crater|| feels like pure evil though

Easily the scariest part for me so far