SeaToSea

[worldly valve]

I didnt think they ever were

But they are def based on creepbines as thata what they turn into on plant

[flint aspen]

they gave double the amount of creepvines but no seeds

[worldly valve]

Ohhh

[flint aspen]

it was my main creepvine source in the lr xD

[worldly valve]

Idk

Ive never bothered to grow em

I found regulsr vines to be enough

Double wpulda saved me a fee knifes i guess

You know i was thinking i wonder how in gonna solve auto farnes

But i have debug mod on

So radius is an easy solve

I think....

[flint aspen]

yeah it is/was a very nice trick

[worldly valve]

Eh, it would save a few mins iver the playthrough i guess

Im unsure itd be worth to setup an extra auto farner tho

[flint aspen]

i havent built them yet

[worldly valve]

Im pretty sure id lose more time making it efficient than id save on the stabs

[flint aspen]

discovered the blueprint way too late

[worldly valve]

They will ruin hour setup lolololol

[flint aspen]

exactly what i was thinking

[worldly valve]

Fortunately a lot of the things that can be good for are actuslly quite useless

Since most plants are bio plants

And auto farmers dont really make that any faster

[flint aspen]

the only automated thing that is really useful for me is the acu cleaning system

never gotta farm for teeth or 💩 ever again xD

[abstract knoll]

yea no hard suit

[flint aspen]

got the 600% setup in 4 big tanks

[worldly valve]

Ph it does work for teeth

[abstract knoll]

do yall know if you can add fcs late into a play through?

[flint aspen]

could be a problem with the fcs wreck and worldgen but just make a backup save and try ^^

[abstract knoll]

alright

[worldly valve]

This is de way

[flint aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/book-of-boba-fett-the-mandalorian-nods-stoic-all-for-it-gif-24738101

[karmic drum]

Yall automate for effectiveness? I automate for the love of the game

https://tenor.com/view/gus-fring-jumpscare-gus-fring-jumpscare-scary-oby-gif-13022434999806691946

[abstract knoll]

automate

nah

i just grind

:)))))

(im too stupid to automate)

: )

[worldly valve]

I mean i before this playthrough ran bases on about 1500 power maybe 2k

So automating was never a choice before because how much more base buulding i had to do

[solar vortex]

starting playing again after a while and now the animals in my acu won't shut up

[worldly valve]

Yeeaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[solar vortex]

not sure if that's c2c related but if anyone know what causes that pls tell

[trail ether]

that was an obvious bug

why would you ever expect it to be intentional that you can plant amoeboids and get creepvine

relatedly I am getting extremely aggravated by how much people shamelessly exploit obvious bugs and oversights as mainstays of their resources

be it this, farming the prop/repl gun conversion batteries, reload bugs, or anything else

if I had the means to do so I would put out an update that takes everything you have gotten from it away

and since I cannot do that I am tempted to instead tell each and every person that has done it that they are cut off from all support and from having their opinions on anything related to balancing or progression be taken seriously

[flint aspen]

its creepvines but sure thing your majesty...

[trail ether]

it is not about how much it actually affects progression, though that would make it worse if it was a major skip

it is about the mentality

I am not even sure how to describe it

[karmic drum]

I fully second this notion

[trail ether]

C2C is a mod that should be played "seriously" or not at all

frankly that is how SN should be played too

[karmic drum]

You don't play a mod like this to just undermine it

[trail ether]

but that is not my domain

[abstract knoll]

Question would this be a bug? whenever i try to install any depth module in a creative world, it is immediately deleted and marked as cheated in

[trail ether]

I have done this in the past, not in C2C and not en masse, but there have been a few people over the years I have flatly told "I will never take anything you say about <mod> seriously again", because of their insistence on cheating/playing really stupidly (usually refusing to do necessary things for flimsy reasons)/insisting on using a version 19 months out of date

[karmic drum]

Not only that. But relying on bugs or exploits as your mainstay for progression just makes things harder on the mod dev

[trail ether]

less a "bug" per se and more a design limitation (ie the code is not doing anything other than what I intended, but this is a context for which it was not designed)

[karmic drum]

They have every right to eighty-six you at that point

[trail ether]

but C2C is not designed for creative and I do not see value in doing so

[abstract knoll]

k

[trail ether]

that spawn detection system was designed for "legitimate" saves

which is the only kind I really consider end users using

[karmic drum]

I'm starting to wonder if some people just get frontal lobotomies for fun

[barren oar]

would it not help with testing if it was disabled in creative

assuming you can detect if a world was initially made in creative

[trail ether]

I designed it to not prevent my ability to test

and i have never had it cause an issue for me

[barren oar]

and what if you need a player to test like many other times

[flint aspen]

@trail ether It was a different looking kind of creepvine that just gave double the amount of creepvines, no seeds, has to be farmed manually every time you plant it and is only accessible in the river. There is nothing unbalanced about it so i really dont get this aggressive response... it was a simple question that could have been answered with yes.

[barren oar]

though i guess then you could just tell them to modify their copy of c2c

[trail ether]

I cannot think of a case where I have needed that for C2C

[barren oar]

plankton?

[trail ether]

that did not involve spawning anything

test "game world" is not the same as testing with some spawned item

[barren oar]

that

is fair

[trail ether]

and the former is not affected by anything I did

also

[barren oar]

and i guess it doesnt really matter since you dont take damage in creative anyway

[trail ether]

and as you surely know having seen this channel, the majority of people having issues are not even able to test

[barren oar]

dwpth modules dont matter

[barren oar]

good point

[trail ether]

it is the same reason I force all logging on, no exceptions

the vast majority of people simply either cannot be assed to or cannot even figure out how to turn it on, much less do so and then attempt to reproduce the issue

far superior to have it permanently on and then have them send you a log that was made during the event

[karmic drum]

c2c is a cool mod. I get it. It's also one of a limited "massive" mods in the subnautica modding community. But if you don't like like it. And also don't like the crazy "leviathan dlc mods" then instead of trying to force c2c to be something it isn't... players should instead ask what's wrong with the subnautica community as a whole

[barren oar]

i see

[trail ether]

though as I am seeing in the TT discord even that is...far from foolproof

"what's Ctrl F"

"how do I put <file path>"

[karmic drum]

Why are people only putting out click bait leviathan mods and op or wacky submarine mods instead of innovative mods that actually add to gameplay?

[barren oar]

skull emoji?

[karmic drum]

Tldr: if the mod isn't your style... don't fucking play it

[barren oar]

its easier and attracts more views you answered your own question lol

[trail ether]

tons of people do like the former and just want more, an endless procession of what N8 calls jangling keys

[barren oar]

well no that is

Very Dismissive

my statement

[trail ether]

and they need the perpetual novelty, so they rapidly exhaust the mods that are like that and go to mods like C2C

also

[barren oar]

vehicles and creatures are absolutely not easy there's a lot of work put into them

[karmic drum]

Yup. You summed it up perfectly

[trail ether]

to answer your "what is wrong with the community"...half of it is people who either are or think like they are 12

[barren oar]

but being creative like c2c generally is does require a different skillset

[trail ether]

honestly that depends

[karmic drum]

Oh. My statement was made to be rhetorical to prove a point. I could've worded it better 😅

[trail ether]

the modelling is the primary work of mods like that

[barren oar]

bc for creatures and vehicles there is a library for them that handles most of the dirty work

[trail ether]

and that is not even something the "creator" does, just something they bankroll

all the "creator" does is pay someone to make a model and then slap it on a vanilla template

like that precursor submarine

it is just a seamoth with a custom skin

as I found out a year or so ago when C2C code started throwing exceptions because of that fact, having tricked C2C into thinking it was a seamoth

[barren oar]

that kinda sounds more difficult than using vf

[karmic drum]

Wth would you even think of running a mod like that with c2c.... oh... wait... people are dumb

[barren oar]

though i dont know if maybe it extends a seamoth itself too

[trail ether]

that mod is actually less problematic for C2C than you would think so I did not block or I think even warn about it

[barren oar]

because why would you think that would be a problem

[trail ether]

I am far more hostile to shit like red baron

which I keep naming because it is the poster child for it

[karmic drum]

Also ladies and gents. This is why she blacklists mods.... not this specific case. But scenarios that can arise from similar cases

[barren oar]

"vehicle might work off of the seamoth so its bound to cause issues with c2c" is not something you think about even as a moddev

[karmic drum]

Not a problem per say

Just seems like a weird thing to add to me

[barren oar]

is that the fighter jet mod

[karmic drum]

Doesn't fit the vibe

[trail ether]

also though this is obviously external to SN and thus not something most people here would have awareness of, this just builds on pre-existing frustrations with similar Bullshit Mods™ in the MC community

stuff like MooFluids (cows that can be milked to give any fluid in the registry)

initially a joke meant-to-be-OP mod

[karmic drum]

Oh I actually have some experience with that 💀

[trail ether]

became popular and a mainstay of every major pack for a decade

[barren oar]

avaritia? lol

[trail ether]

Avaritia is another example yes

but it is less damaging to progression

[karmic drum]

Now that's the original poster child

[trail ether]

just more "on the nose"

[barren oar]

literal kill command locked behind 810 hours

[karmic drum]

Mechanism is another one I'm frankly tired of seeing

[trail ether]

because why bother making a production line for jet fuel when you can get a cow to piss it instead

[barren oar]

unfortunate that it was taken seriously

honestly mek is kinda goated

[trail ether]

actually remember that "archive of idiots"

one of them is a guy who did exactly that

[barren oar]

create too despite having a lot of exploits that cant really be patched

[solar vortex]

....uh oh.

[trail ether]

not MooFluids but a mystcraft age with lakes of jet fuel

[barren oar]

hehe funny area gimmick

[abstract knoll]

whats your opinion on create?

[karmic drum]

Looks like you better go grab your suit lol

[trail ether]

found it https://i.imgur.com/jfPUTLK.png

that happened in 2015

[solar vortex]

no
||the base is just gone||

[barren oar]

...oh

[trail ether]

I see a bioproc but what am I looking for

[karmic drum]

Probably a #🌐┃off-topic thing. But I thinj it's immensely popular for all the wrong reasons

[trail ether]

is the ||base|| missing?

[barren oar]

lower the resolution a bit more i can almost read it

haha

i cant tell if it being very pixelated is a mobile discord issue

[trail ether]

never used it and not a fan of that aesthetic, nor am I a fan of how it has seemingly taken over the entire community (I see tons of people unironically being told not to bother making new mods because create exists and is assumed to be the ideal final endpoint of mods)

but none of that is really a commentary on its quality

and what I have seen indicates that it is a very large technical achievement

[karmic drum]

As I said. Popular for all the wrong reasons

[trail ether]

also did you pick Create deliberately?

because https://reikakalseki.github.io/imagedownloads/i-imgur-com_2FgKv1Uaw.png https://reikakalseki.github.io/imagedownloads/i-imgur-com_2FOaCHSQX.png

[karmic drum]

It's that "Dangling keys" effect you mentioned earlier

[abstract knoll]

true i dont like thats it all thats talked about but I do enjoy its capacity for automation and ability to create custom trains

[abstract knoll]

pft

sorry

did not pick create deliberately

[karmic drum]

What in the Marcus Notch is that?

[trail ether]

my first and flagship MC mod

[barren oar]

create's aesthetic is fucking awesome i love seeing the entire factory spin and move

factorio style

[trail ether]

and a spiritual predecessor to create

shaft power based tech mod

[barren oar]

oh are you considering it that

[trail ether]

people tell me it is that and they are similar on the surface

[barren oar]

dont know why but I thougjt you didnt really like comparisons with it

[trail ether]

their actual power systems are quite different

[karmic drum]

I'm honestly disappointed that I've never come across any of your stuff before... I hate how mod launchers and even websites filter by popularity

[trail ether]

I went with a much more "physical" as opposed to "gamey" model

[karmic drum]

Popularity is never an indicator of quality

[trail ether]

actually, relevant: I made this back in 2013 after a string of people failing to grasp/apply that distinction

https://www.about.goconqr.com/en/p/772405/question/597408

ignore the cert it is just a site that predates widespread HTTPS, and you are not submitting anything anyway

[barren oar]

i think version alao plays a big role

[trail ether]

that quiz is basically testing your ability to think "physically" as opposed to "gamey"

plus basic math/spatial skills

[trail ether]

stuff like "steam is made from water being hot. lava is hot. why did my steam engine melt?"

that is still a classic

[karmic drum]

Well yes. Because people are more likely to make eye catching mods for newer and more popular versions of the game

[karmic drum]

[barren oar]

oh yeah why dont you update to modern is it just the time and effort required to get reacquainted with the changes since 1.7?

[karmic drum]

People I swear

[barren oar]

to be fair minecraft isnt a very realistic game in itself either

[trail ether]

or, for an SN example:

[karmic drum]

1.7 is honestly a golden age for me. It's where I started and is where I'm most comfortable

[barren oar]

you cant expect players will come and apply real world physics to minecraft of all things

[trail ether]

how many people have posted in this channel with a complaint/bug report/etc, having failed to really think through that module physically anda instead assuming gamey logic of "magic spawn blocker"

[trail ether]

you can when you tell them at the outset

[barren oar]

lava may be hot but it doesnt do anything except for light some blocks nearby on fire

[karmic drum]

You can if they actually understand the mods they're installing

[trail ether]

I have 817k lines of code

[barren oar]

Oh

[trail ether]

at least, I did in early 2023 when I did that check

[barren oar]

?? hiw the fuck did you code that much

[trail ether]

a large fraction of it is render-related

[barren oar]

Ah.

[trail ether]

which the OGL update breaks

[barren oar]

yeah that checks out

[trail ether]

an even larger fraction is world interaction

stuff that takes xyz coords

which the BlockPos bullshit in 1.9 breaks

less unfixably but that is still an extreme amount of busywokr

[karmic drum]

I'll admit. It took me a while to look at that module like that as well. But eventually I started to look at as an actual part of the sub instead

[trail ether]

another large fraction is inventory handling

which the ItemStack.EMPTY bullshit in 1.12 breaks

[barren oar]

oh yeah this one i thought it'd help against already spawned creatures too

in the sense that if they havent seen you yet but they could hear you, you'd still be fine with it and still undetected

[trail ether]

I am more referring to what the module says it is, and how it says it works (and how it actually works internally, mimicking that) vs what might be expected in a simplistic "Status effect" based game

[barren oar]

like how the cyclops slowrunner does... but i think that one may just disable aggression entirely

Er. I replied to the wrong message i now notice

[barren oar]

i meant this ^

[trail ether]

ie the module makes you inaudible

[karmic drum]

Oh. That's what I was trying to word in my head 😅

[trail ether]

inaudible != invisible, especially at close range

and few people would fail to understand that, if they actually thought about it

but most never do

[karmic drum]

Yea that is not how that works

People....

People are fascinating creatures

[trail ether]

they have been trained by gamey logic in most games to just assume simple binary flags

[barren oar]

yeah thats what im saying

since i think you mentioned even it only impacts ghost spawna in the void and nothing else

Er. and audio of seamoth engine while driving it

[trail ether]

now to be fair there are a LOT of systems-based games out there, where mechanics like this are commonplace

[karmic drum]

Pavlovian conditioning at it's finest

[trail ether]

ie stuff where you might be told not "this module prevents X from Ying" but "this module has a 20% reduction in X"

but they are the minority

especially where X is not just some stat

[karmic drum]

Huh... I have an elden ring mod that actually plays in that logical minority

[barren oar]

thats also dumb yeah it should tell you if its additive or multiplicative because one is much stronger than the other

[trail ether]

also I should point out that gamey logic is not inherently bad

[barren oar]

but regardless

[karmic drum]

No it's not. I just don't like it

[barren oar]

... actually do creatures even listen to sounds

[trail ether]

where the mechanics like that are not the focus simple gamey logic is perfectly serviceable

[barren oar]

i assumed they would since it seems they always know your location

[trail ether]

as in literal sound detection system ingame? no

[karmic drum]

I like thinking, failing, being forced to think harder, and learning

[barren oar]

regardless of if theyve seen you or not

[trail ether]

everything in SN works off standard proximity detection AI

EcoTarget and all that

[karmic drum]

I learned that after a good while with bone sharks

[barren oar]

and does it like increase in size if youre louder

or in other words hearing you from farther away

[trail ether]

no sight range is a function of the searcher

[karmic drum]

If you just keep your distance then they fuck off

[barren oar]

i see

maybe i'd just imagined it

[trail ether]

at its core every creature is doing a "find target within range" call

what counts as a valid target can vary

and in theory they could have done something like "Bonesharks cannot see stationary seamoths as far away as moving ones" or any other condition

but no such things are implemented that I can recall seeing

[barren oar]

thats unfortunate it would be a fun mechanic

[trail ether]

I do not think the target search even does LoS

which to be fair makes sense as LoS is expensive

[karmic drum]

That would be neat. And would reallt lean into the games general atmosphere. Shame

[barren oar]

if you had to stop your moth's engine nearby a nest of sharks and hope they dont notice you

until they pass

[trail ether]

it would, and I like adding lots of mechanics like that

adding to pre-existing though is a pain as it requires a lot of patching

which is hard to justify for a simple "this is a neat idea"

[karmic drum]

And I appreciate those mechanics when I play. The ones I've noticed thus far though

[karmic drum]

Yea

[trail ether]

much of where I do add that kind of stuff I "cheat"

for example the biter swarming Ecocean adds

that is entirely outside their targeting logic

it literally is just an on damage hook that does a big SphereCast for nearby biters and sets them to aggro on you too

[barren oar]

could you not have a custom component that simply sets the creature's target and let the basegame component handle the rest, perchance

oh you just mentioned that

nvm

[trail ether]

in theory that could be immediately undone by their normal target logic, though for most creatures they will not drop a target until having attacked it at least once

[trail ether]

it is not even a component, it is just a fire-and-forget

oh I lied

it is a component

[trail ether]

to get around this

ie it keeps re-setting the target to what I said until i allow it to be dropped

                foreach (MeleeAttack a in attacks)
                    a.lastTarget.SetTarget(target.gameObject);
                foreach (AggressiveWhenSeeTarget a in targeting)
                    a.lastTarget.SetTarget(target.gameObject);```

that is the core of it right there

[karmic drum]

Oh speaking of eco-ocean I have to apologize for a previous misconception

[trail ether]

            Player ep = dmg.target.gameObject.FindAncestor<Player>();
            if (ep) {
                float f = 0;
                switch(dmg.type) {
                    case DamageType.Normal:
                    case DamageType.Puncture:
                        f = 1;
                        break;
                    case DamageType.Collide:
                    case DamageType.Drill:
                        f = 0.67F;
                        break;
                    case DamageType.Heat:
                    case DamageType.Acid:
                    case DamageType.Explosive:
                    case DamageType.LaserCutter:
                    case DamageType.Fire:
                        f = 0.33F;
                        break;
                }
                if (f > 0) {
                    //dmg.target.GetComponent<ExplodingAnchorPod>());
                    //SNUtil.writeToChat("Player '"+ep+"' took damage");
                    foreach (Biter b in WorldUtil.getObjectsNearWithComponent<Biter>(ep.transform.position, 60*f)) {
                        AttractToTarget.attractCreatureToTarget(b, ep, false);
                        //SNUtil.writeToChat("Attracted biter "+b+" @ "+b.transform.position);
                    }
                }
            }```

[karmic drum]

I assumed that the thermal vents in general weren't worth farming because the one I tried to farm produced nothing but fish

But what I didn't stop to do was consider what vents were actually fit to be setup for collection

And which ones weren't

Lack of thought on my part

[barren oar]

...they differ?

[trail ether]

I did make them differ a while back

a few months ago

originally they were all the same because it was a pain to do otherwise

[barren oar]

oh right yeah ||glass forest|| vents are much slower in compartimentul right

Er

[trail ether]

but I eventually dumped a table of all the vents

[barren oar]

Autocorrcet

In comparison*

[trail ether]

and yes this is one of the things i did

because of their number their rate was sharply reduced

both for lag and balance reasons

[barren oar]

yep

[trail ether]

certain mats can only appear in certain biomes too

[barren oar]

oh?

intriguing

[trail ether]

based on some amount of geological sensibility and some amount of progression

glass forest vent has mats that shallows cannot

though the two koosh vents are the best overall i think

a balance of rate and drop table

[karmic drum]

Well yes. Take a vent in the shallows vs the bulb zone from a phyiscal aspect. The bulb zone vents are more shallow meaning you can get the collector closer to the bottom of vent. And therefore catch a better balance of minerals and dead fish. Then a deep shallows vent where the base has to be built so far up. That the item collector is forced into a spot where it's going to catch more fish than metals

Oh

I had totally different logic there

I was not thinking technically in the slightest

[barren oar]

but then you have to build a silo base in fuckall on the other side of the map so you have to travel 15m just for some msterials

come to think of it do vents even do anything if you're too far away

[trail ether]

no

the object entirely unloads

[barren oar]

damn maybe they should

[trail ether]

this has been an unending hassle for me

[barren oar]

yeah but like how the filter works

[trail ether]

it is one of the reasons the geyserfilter keeps having issues

[barren oar]

i asssume

er maybe i should expand on that

[trail ether]

both in terms of lag and item production

thou8gh i think i silved the former

[barren oar]

does the filter like produce at a constant rate depending on the vent

last i recall that was how it worked

[trail ether]

yes, while the vent is firing

in theory vents can have any duty cycle

though I am not sure any actually do vary

[barren oar]

so they dont generate while its deloaded?

[trail ether]

they do not

[barren oar]

while the vent is unloaded*

[trail ether]

at least, they did not for a looooooong time and unless I changed that it is still true

[karmic drum]

I mean I don't use the vents anyway. I prefer a seamoth with 3 storage modules and a scanner room (pre-prawn) anyway. It was just an observation I had.

[trail ether]

and in my playthrough in Febrary i remember not having mats in it after hours and hours of leaving it unattended

[barren oar]

maybe they should then just remember the last duty cycle time the vent had when it unloads

so it can generate even while unloaded

player wont notice shit anyway if this only applies while they're far away

[karmic drum]

Wait. Really dumb question here

||do the plankton scoops stack?||

[trail ether]

the issue is that 99% of unloaded time is "from the beginning" for that session

so it never had a Geyser to check

[barren oar]

save data

[trail ether]

I never wrote them with the assumptin of multiple but I think it would

no promises

[barren oar]

you get more storage but it does not multiply your rates

[trail ether]

this is cheatable

[barren oar]

so is every other data you are currently saving

and for that matter so is the mod itself because you can just modify it

your local copy is legally 100% modifiable as long as you dont redistribute it

[karmic drum]

Oh I'm not gonna attempt it because I think it would undermine some things. But it occurred to me yesterday that they're actually larger than regular storage modules 😆

[trail ether]

there is a difference between editing save data in an XML and compiling a custom copy of the mod

for one there is an established pattern of people doing the former

[karmic drum]

And so I was using it own to hold more cargo then the actual storage mods

[barren oar]

yep they're goated for that

[barren oar]

fair i guess

then just hardcode some generic duty cycle that it always uses if unloaded and leave it at that

though for the record you dont need to set up an ide or anything im pretty sure dnspy is capable of recompiling after modifications

[trail ether]

it seems I DID do this https://i.imgur.com/2h3yBOI.png

[barren oar]

ah

[trail ether]

however notice the 300m range limit on functionality

[barren oar]

wtf do the 0 and 0.2 mean in the load, defaults?

and isnt 0.2 kinda low then lol

[trail ether]

fallback yes

if the tag is not present

[barren oar]

why is that

[trail ether]

probably anti-lag, as findGeyser is otherwise expensive

however

liveGeyser does not need to be non-null anymore

so i might be able to make it just only do the check when in range

rather than gate all of the update loop

[barren oar]

oh right i didnt notice that i thought that was stopping it from generating if you're 300+m away

[trail ether]

there

see this is not cheap https://i.imgur.com/jS9Hh6e.png

and if you are far away it will return null, since the geysers are unloaded

hence it will keep running unless blocked

it is rate-limited but still

[barren oar]

honestly why not just like hardcode a list of geysers

or pick them up and store them in save data or whatever as the player "discovers" them by getting close enough to load them

[trail ether]

I did do that since writing this

[barren oar]

a

[trail ether]

for aR

[barren oar]

aR?

[trail ether]

though it might be in DI

it is

geysers.xml

seemingly only used for FCS current generator and the regional description at the moment

I should use it for the geyser filter too

[barren oar]

nice so you have most of the work already done

[trail ether]

however that is a list of positions

the filter operates on an actual Geyser object

[barren oar]

ah right drops and cycle too

[trail ether]

yes

[barren oar]

its much cheaper to find the closest geyser for one

[trail ether]

but you still need to do that check once you have the position

[barren oar]

then a spherecast of maybe 2m (to account for float inaccuracies) from the geyser position to find the actual Geyser object?

that's probably cheap enough

even 1m i assume would be enough

though i dont know if thats radius or diameter

[trail ether]

radius

but i have adjusted it

[barren oar]

...wait neither geysers nor the machine will be able to move. why not just look for geysers in Start only

if a mod is added that happens to add a geyser nearby an already placed filter, then the game has to be restarted anyway to load it so it'll still pick it up

and obviously doing something once is much cheaper than every frame

[trail ether]

because the geyser will not likely be loaded when the machine loads in

the machine does load in in Global

[barren oar]

argh right

i forgot

then the other way: patch the geyser so when it loads, it looks for filters nearby

filter will always be loaded because its global as you'd just mentioned

[trail ether]

clever

not sure it will be necessary with the existing system but clever

[barren oar]

it's way cheaper for sure

though you also dont ever need more than one filter, and even that you only need to run for a few hours to get all the resources you'll need

[worldly valve]

This reads like a troll to me😅

[worldly valve]

Jimmyfallonfellow i mean to be clesr

[barren oar]

you can read it fine ?

[worldly valve]

I opened it directly

Rather than in discord

But it does read like a troll

[barren oar]

ah thatd explain it

yeah i didnt try that and its horribly pixelated through disc

[worldly valve]

Id have a hard time articulating exactly why

But my starting point would be the 2 naes they use being jinmy falon and bobdole

I wish i had the greentext saved that i would also like to reference, but i dont even know how to find it its so confusing lololol

[barren oar]

yeah obvious troll

if it were in good faith it wouldve ended when it was mentioned the version was very old

[worldly valve]

eyyyyyyyyy the liquid breathing charger isnt borked

hmmm my tank didnt fill nearly as much as aespected...

okay maybe it is a bit borked...still confused on the liquod transfer tratio but i have theory

HUM

well i fixed it, and i got it all back at once

ro Reika, liquid breathing recharger still seems to rapidly drain base power, even aftwer a tank it full

how can i help you troubleshoot that? or is it meant to drain power even when my tank is good

i just had a new thought on how power might work

i keep thinking my reactors are breaking under certain conditions

but considering that each bank, and generator has its own bank

and each power room is its own thing

what if my machines are only draeing from one rooms bank

and thus imy power generation slows, as i have one full "battery" and one uncharged "battery"

[barren oar]

does it consume more than an energy a second after using the machine once in an instance https://github.com/ReikaKalseki/SeaToSea/blob/main/Objects/RebreatherRecharger.cs#L127

Er. An energy every 2 seconds

that'd be a bug caused by Or-ing at https://github.com/ReikaKalseki/SeaToSea/blob/main/Objects/RebreatherRecharger.cs#L164, then

(false | false = false, false | true = true, true | false = true, true | true = true, so the moment it becomes in use, it will never be out of use until reloading the save)

assuming i got the logic right, hence no ping just yet

[flint aspen]

Still awaiting my sanctions for the shameful act of "playing the game" and "asking a question"...

[worldly valve]

after it gets used its a constant drai

also hard mode seems to cap liquid breathing supply tanks at 1800 on refill

[barren oar]

yeah you get way less as part of hardmode

which honestly i think is kinda bullshit all it really does is make you craft more

reika'll probably see the recharger issue anyway because of the reply ping right after

[karmic drum]

Oooor.... instead of making you drag more tanks around.... places more value on having efficient and well connected bp system to produce breathing fluid, a number of well spaced bases to recharge at more pressing depths. And I higher, more creative emphasis on your vehicles which you already have to grind the hell out of just to get down there? 🤔

Just ya know

Food for thought

Oh and pressing an actual sense for when you should start using liquid breathing. And that you've found everything you could possibly need above it's depth threshold before you do

[barren oar]

multi tanks just dont even work lol i mean that you need to craft more liquid

thats a reality, multiple bases or not

vehicles point is fair though yes

[worldly valve]

Vehicle getting down there can take quite some time depending

[worldly valve]

Im only using it below 500, it wont be suoer bsd for me but i wont be affected by the ribers rnjesus haha. Its actually not as big of a deal tho, as the liquid still comes in packs of 2700.

[barren oar]

oh i thought it also lowered liquid

my bas

bad

[worldly valve]

I didnt explain it fully

I do find it a strange alteration that wont really affect gameplay

[abstract knoll]

still looking for a rock crusher

[worldly valve]

What biomes have you completed

[vocal crane]

yo

what are yalls fps

[worldly valve]

What biome?

[abstract knoll]

grand reef, crag, crash, crater edge, deep degasi, dunes arch, dunes meteor, Eastern Grassy, Floating Island, Glass forest, Grand Reef, Island Degasi, Jellyshroom, Mt Island, Mushroom Disk forests, Mushroom Tree, Northern Blood kelp, Northern kelp, Southern Grassy, Sparse Reef Fissures, Dunes, Underwater Degasi, Underwater Mountains, || void Spikes ||, and Western Grassy.

[worldly valve]

Wherr have you built bases?

Is your fps always low? Or does it decay over time qith this weird pausw pf all frames every few seconds?

[abstract knoll]

going to go search Underwater Islands

[worldly valve]

It drops a bit there and below it

Ny fps is never too bad, but my pc while not a beast is decent enough

Lag "cascades" can occur when you have bases buikt new survivor bases sometimes

One of them esepcially

[abstract knoll]

hmmmmm I wonder which one 👀 👀 👀 👀 👀 👀

[vocal crane]

mine is like 40 to 60

im not sure whats causing it to be this little

[abstract knoll]

how would i go about checking my exact FPS?

[vocal crane]

ive just created a new world to test if my mods worked

[abstract knoll]

i have a few limestone chunks scanned

also gotta love the broken face mask texture due to widescreen

[vocal crane]

fps command

u just type

fps in the console

[abstract knoll]

ah

thanks

[vocal crane]

my fps isnt usually this low

so i dont quite understand why it is so low

[abstract knoll]

im averaging 60-70 in the safe reef

[vocal crane]

mine varies a little

from 30 to 60

might be because of de extinction

im not surewhy

ive got 37 mods installed tho

that might be a sign

👀

[abstract knoll]

yea

[vocal crane]

its mostly just

[abstract knoll]

also you can infact not add FCS to a save late

[vocal crane]

the reika mods

and fcs

[abstract knoll]

yea

[vocal crane]

i know

[abstract knoll]

yeaaa i tried

[vocal crane]

and like

a few fixes

this pains me

[abstract knoll]

rip

ive managed to aquire a significant amount of nanocarbon

[vocal crane]

do u play with de extinction

[worldly valve]

3hh i was wprried till i saw 40 to 60 fps

Sone of thw areas just arent optimised

I dont

[karmic drum]

I still don't know how to get that (don't tell me)

[abstract knoll]

nope

[vocal crane]

yeah but

its kinda annoying

to see my frames just

[abstract knoll]

fair

[vocal crane]

drop instantly the secound i move

guess ima clean my modpack a little

[abstract knoll]

all i can say is when you first aquire one, spend it wisely

[karmic drum]

I already know what it needs to be spent on

Finding that is far easier than finding the actual material

[abstract knoll]

ah

[vocal crane]

so 40 fps to 60 in safe shallows is

normal

?

[worldly valve]

Its probably thr worst part of the mode hands down byt a big margin

Thats all ill say

Whats that old award insomniac games used to give to the dev who made the worst idea in each ratchet game?

Nanocarbon gets dat award in c2c🫠

[worldly valve]

Most of my playthrough it between 40 to 80 rps depending on bione

C2c runs a bit laggier than standard subnautica

And idk what your mods are doin

I run a 2070 super 32gigs ram ddr4 3600, cant recall processor exact, 6 cores

[vocal crane]

yeah i run a similiar build just 16 gigs

but i cant get over 60 seems like

im just using fcs + c2c and easycraft + blueprint tracker + map

but i guess those two mods are big

[abstract knoll]

i could probably get better fps if i turned down quality settings

[vocal crane]

maybe i should

install a performance booster

[abstract knoll]

oh lord

DOWNLOAD MORE RAM FOR FREE TODAY

[karmic drum]

I mean... it also unlocks some of the strongest stuff

So it feels like a fair enough trade

[worldly valve]

Ehhhhhhh

I feel its more of a semi skillful rngfest as opposed to a puzzle

[abstract knoll]

now to start my search for tungsten

[worldly valve]

Gl

[abstract knoll]

i keep hearing about a ||salt lottery|| so im gonna try and grind up a salt big block

the large deposits

Have to get Sulphur anyways

[worldly valve]

Maidaing a reaper

Im pretty sure

Okay naybe not

I was goonna say its easiet than nanocarbon

[abstract knoll]

pft

[worldly valve]

But they do have a lotta health lolol

[abstract knoll]

seriously?

[worldly valve]

There is a better method, theoretically

[abstract knoll]

i mean i was gonna go for a stasis rifle anyway

[abstract knoll]

the phyto plankton feeder

?

[worldly valve]

Maida used no rifles sir

[abstract knoll]

oh i know

[worldly valve]

Mmmm im nit really supposed to give you the answer, i think you should do a bit more digging your pda logs

[abstract knoll]

im going to

haven't had a chance to scan the leviathans yet

[abstract knoll]

man

super super sea glide is so fast

holy shit

[worldly valve]

Super azurite seaglide be all

So actuwlky i wanna test something at some point

I kbow it just leads me to a broken teleporter

But see i think the changes to the ghostiboys, kindda makes it easiee to dodge void ghosties than before

[trail ether]

no because people do not accept no when i refuse to help on that basis

i have a great deal of experience on that end

[trail ether]

....what?

[worldly valve]

So i wonder if getting to the void spikes without moth is easier than it used to be

Tho i expect it to also be more tedious lol

[trail ether]

which strongly increases the incentive to do things like farm plants

[worldly valve]

Itle be fun to try

[trail ether]

that is the primary reason for the recipe of the breathing fluid

it is specifuically designed to be very painful and tedious to craft "from wild ingredients"

[worldly valve]

I actuwlly dont think the 1800 size tank changes much gameplay compared to the 27

It doesnt make you craft much more

As the batches are still 2700

Lairian picked the correct river entrance

[trail ether]

stumbled upon this https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1mr2xeh/i_already_like_hell_is_us_2_minutes_in/

never heard of the game and unlikely to be something i would enjoy

but i approve

and that is exactly the kind of disclaimer i was talking about t he other day

of course the reason for all the handholding is less because of creative decisions and more because if they do not a bunch of mouthbreathing morons get stuck and leave bad reviews, negatively impacting sales

hence why for example every single relic puzzle in HFW lasts all of 30 seconds before she starts saying things like "I should move that box over here to reach that ledge" and "i bet i can get the train over here if I use that switch, and use it as a ledge"

[worldly valve]

HFW?

Nvm

[trail ether]

https://www.reddit.com/r/horizon/comments/1boh5dy/can_i_turn_off_aloys_idle_hint_chatter/

Keep in mind Guerrilla need to tailor the hints towards idiots. There's an area relatively early on that should take you around twenty minutes to complete at most. Players have literally given up or have taken hours to get through that area despite Aloy's hints at the numerous ladders scattered around that area. Can you imagine these players without these hints?

[worldly valve]

i might be one of the only people who think this

but i hate the stasis rifle

its just kinda...bad

like why would i use inventory space for he plausibility i might have to use it

when usually just moving away from a levathan is an easier, and more effective emthod

okay officailly entering thr river for a bit

traditionally i dont use superseaglide down there, as movement speed is part of the puzzle down there

good bye my friend

[karmic drum]

I don't agree with using the super seaglide in general

[worldly valve]

i see it about the same level as easycraft

actually i lied

easycraft is much much stronger

[karmic drum]

Easycraft is a qol mod. Super seaglide isn't meant to exist

[worldly valve]

ive also seen reika coment that she knows the travel time is a bit of a problem, but she doesnt know how to solve it without mass unbalance

super seaglide is basically qol>.>

they both just save time

movement speed isnt revelent to most gameplay, outside of about

4 or 5 puzzles

easycraft saves literaly eons

also without easycraft, things like auto farmers are in fact counter productive

as they no longer canave time

i use SASG for movin around and gatherin stuffs

also noteable, it actually is often harmful and makes the game harder

such as in wrecks, or coming an area visuallty to find a small thing

easycraft again, has a higher power level than ssg ever could dream of

with aving inventory space, time moving while crafing, skilling crafting steps which bypasses fabrication speed entirely, makes techs that would have no value have great value

essentially what im saying is someone using ssg and not using ssg wuill have about the same experience in this mod

(my last file i actually didnt use it at all as a bit of a test, tho that file doesnt get past river since the lava zone beaame lag central due to coral )

oh yeah

easycraft alo makes organization a waste of time too

because dump

and i think organizg inventory is one of the most key elements in any survival game

but easy craft just

removes that entirely

[trail ether]

SSG falls in the same family as the shit i mentioned last night

now if you are just using it to save time going between bases that is one thing

that i can tolerate

but using it for pod 15, as one person proudly said?

fuck no

[worldly valve]

Lifepod 15 doesnt really need it, you can get there with creature decoys just fine

Can theoreticatlly do with void spikes too but rhat leads to hilarity

(Tho still a cinematically amazing moment, if you could find a way to get that in somehow reika)

Tho the 3 ghostboys with grapple attacks make survicing there harder

tho think you wouldnt like my solve the triple reaper pod

but tbh im surprised other people dnt try that first

all i really did was make a cage

creatures cant really harm anyone in a cage

it was also kinda cool, tho three vanishing ghostis still tops it

[karmic drum]

My rigidity comes from the ways people have personally twisted justification in my own experience

Give someone an inch and they will surely take a mile

So I stopped giving shit

But I do see where you're coming from

Also travel time between bases is... just part of the game

If you attempt to shorten it too much then you end up accelerating and unbalancing other aspects of the gameplay loop

[worldly valve]

may i ask which aspects you believe those are?

, I sorta noted a few negative aspects it affects

[karmic drum]

Raw resource acquisition, the devaulation of farming certain resources at your base, exploration, wildlife threats...

To name a few

[barren oar]

fair enough

[abstract knoll]

is there a data entry log that points you in the direction of tungsten grains or is it complete guess work?

[barren oar]

you do have one entry that points you to the main method, and guesswork for the secondary method

well, the item's description points you towards the secondary method, so until you can get one sample then it is guesswork

[abstract knoll]

grand

[abstract knoll]

so does avolite respawn or is there a set number

[worldly valve]

its set i think

but more than needed

maybe dont shape alll of it

[abstract knoll]

not azurite

avolite

this stuff

not this stuff

[barren oar]

set number, you will have exactly as many as you need

[abstract knoll]

k

[barren oar]

except maybe if using fcs i dont know where you use the extra you gain

[abstract knoll]

i ask because i cannot find any more than 4

[barren oar]

keep rolling

[abstract knoll]

i have the entire mountain range covered with scanners

[barren oar]

dont forget to pick up the items you've already found

in my experience more dont spawn unless you do that

[abstract knoll]

yeaaaa

ive done that

im gonna try and deload and then reload the region

see if anymore spawn

or if theres no stasis rife for me

[worldly valve]

@trail ether ||am i meant to be able to scane for calcite before hand scanning it? ||

one scanner there should be enough

you are scanning for sunbeam debris yeah?

[abstract knoll]

ill scan for both

[trail ether]

not sure if I added it to the "must scan to ping" list or not

no

            scanToScannerRoom.Add(CustomMaterials.getItem(CustomMaterials.Materials.PLATINUM).TechType);
            scanToScannerRoom.Add(CustomMaterials.getItem(CustomMaterials.Materials.PRESSURE_CRYSTALS).TechType);
            scanToScannerRoom.Add(CustomMaterials.getItem(CustomMaterials.Materials.VENT_CRYSTAL).TechType);
            scanToScannerRoom.Add(CustomMaterials.getItem(CustomMaterials.Materials.OBSIDIAN).TechType);
            scanToScannerRoom.Add(C2CItems.voidSpikeLevi.TechType);
            scanToScannerRoom.Add(C2CItems.alkali.TechType);
            scanToScannerRoom.Add(C2CItems.healFlower.TechType);
            scanToScannerRoom.Add(C2CItems.kelp.TechType);
            scanToScannerRoom.Add(C2CItems.broodmother.TechType);```

that is what c2C adds to that map

(the behavior is controlled by ExS)

[vocal crane]

do yall reccomend the performance booster mod

i cant seem to get over 60 fps at safe shallows

[karmic drum]

I accidentally took my happy meds instead of my adhd meds even though I just took my happy meds last night.... I'm gonna need to play so much c2c to keep myself stimulated

[karmic drum]

Dawg... are you sure your rig is even built to be doing this?

[vocal crane]

i use a rtx 2070 super 16g ram

inte i9

[worldly valve]

i mean tbh i dont care much about fps

as llong as i dont have stutter

you could try performance booster but idk how much will help

not many have used it

[vocal crane]

do u run any other mods than c2c and possibly fcs

[worldly valve]

only some basic ones, nothing fancy

i usually only worry in im under 30

anyone else find thepyro pods sometiems grow glitchy

like when ihop on, they often only ave 1 thing per plant , when i saved the night before it would have had close to 6 each

only ends up being a thing when i need to craft a certain thing a bunch but

its sad when 6 pyro pods isnt enough lol

[barren oar]

dont ever use it

things which you need to see from afar in c2c will be culled away

one of them obviously being the aurora which you occasionally need to orient yourself

and most of all, it really doesn't help with much

you'd be making your experience actively worse for no tangible benefit

[barren oar]

might just be that they dont save how many they have

and so when you get on they have their default amount which is 0 or 1 is my guess

[worldly valve]

its not the biggest of deals, they grew

fast

i just happened to want micro filters right away

acus have a really have energy drain i guess

i built a second one and my base now cant handle anything lol

HUM

ive decided i wanna unbuild my auto farmer

...this is gonna be a puzzle

plan is empty inventory, transfer all, drop rapidly, transfer all again , unbuild before it farms

lolo;

oh right liquid breathing recharger drain

[karmic drum]

The seamoth can get high beams?

Because people don't already hate bone sharks 🤣 🤣 🤣

[barren oar]

supposedly intended to be relevant for ||the void spikes||

realistically you're just hurting your power consumption

[trail ether]

who said that

[barren oar]

i did ...?

hence supposedly

maybe i just wasnt too clear my bad

but i dont see any other place where light would help

unless theres some interaction ||between that and ghosts, making them spawn more frequently and thus spawning more plankton... but since the void is so dark and only using an "audio suppression" system is enough to make them not spawn, i highly doubt that'd be the case||

oh maybe it could ||make reapers detach you faster if you're flashing them, but thats already only 15 damage or even less if you get the timing right, last i recall, so not too helpful there either||

actually now im severely doubting the "even less" part of that statement, but my point does still stand i think

[patent nimbus]

||I just found out the azurite battery makes the repair tool able to repair those data boxes||

[abstract knoll]

yeeeeep

took me a while and a lot of pushes in the right direction

[barren oar]

is it necessary for that now

[abstract knoll]

?

[barren oar]

last i recall i didnt use ||an azurite repair tool except for lifepod 15||

i only had one that i kept on the seamoth at all times

except for that time

[abstract knoll]

ah the || mountains || data box you do need a repair tool

and || the sea treader data box ||

[barren oar]

yes but an ||azurite|| repair tool specifically?

[abstract knoll]

yep

[barren oar]

must be a very recent change then

~1-2 months ago when i did my playthrough it wasnt truly necessary

[worldly valve]

It takes so much power to craft mk 3 in hard

Tho to be fair j wasnt at max

[karmic drum]

Excluding my rush for the mask (finally got it) and the em suit. I'm taking a more wide path to progression than a linear one. That way the next time I hit a big ass wall. I'm ready for it

Also I kind of see what you mean about travel time... I am going to seriously need to move my nearest not bioprocessor base

That way I don't have to drive half way across the map to collect plankton

And I really gotta get acu poop sorted 😭

[karmic drum]

||I found the funny radiation cave. Lets see if I can make it to the bottom||

[abstract knoll]

im loosing my mind trying find tungsten

[worldly valve]

well what have you tried

[abstract knoll]

I've checked the meteor, I've ground down pretty much every type of deposit, and I have checked all of the data entries on all my equipment, geological data, and biomes that I have explored

[worldly valve]

hmm

[abstract knoll]

ive ground down salt many times

[worldly valve]

how are ypou grinding salt?

[abstract knoll]

the large salt deposits, and the rock crusher

[worldly valve]

what biome/s are your base/s in?

[abstract knoll]

in the dunes

i have several,

have not tried it yet in the lost river

[worldly valve]

eo you have any bases with

plankton?

[abstract knoll]

in areas with photoplankton or with the feeder?

[worldly valve]

photo

[abstract knoll]

have not built a base yet in any areas with phytoplankton

[worldly valve]

im unsure how to give a hint on this, perhaps you dont have the method quuite right

[abstract knoll]

alright

ill continue with trial and error

[karmic drum]

Just got my electro suit and I now have no clue what to do

[abstract knoll]

funny little blue razzberry flavored rocks

[karmic drum]

Gonna put a base in the crash zone cause why not

[abstract knoll]

👍🏼

[karmic drum]

Oh yea. I'm gonna farm a load of that

[abstract knoll]

i mean i dont think he likes my base location

[karmic drum]

Well did you install the perimeter thingy?

[abstract knoll]

nope

just winging it

[karmic drum]

I mean the mod has at least two items for maintaining bases in dangerous places

||One thing I can't ever seem to find is Electrolytes||

[abstract knoll]

ah

[karmic drum]

Would really like to so I can make swim charge fins

[abstract knoll]

oh my god

i think ive figured it

out

THE BLOCKS

[trail ether]

do not take the game of telephone at face value

[abstract knoll]

yea

[trail ether]

and to kill this rumor once and for all I am removing this method as a viable primary means

[abstract knoll]

i cant even find the normal primary method

[trail ether]

it is not the same as other materials

[abstract knoll]

i understand that

[patent nimbus]

The amount of space in the bioprocessor makes me worried for later recipes

[abstract knoll]

yea

its also to allow for large quantities of product

ok so

having read the description of tungsten grains

|| leads me to believe i need to use the Geyser Particulate Filter, or i need to use the filtration machine in some way||

because of this line

am I completely crazy or am I nearing the mark?

[worldly valve]

what biomes have you not completed?

[worldly valve]

nearing the mark

filtering is the right idea

[abstract knoll]

so filtering something

gonna try || the lost river||

[trail ether]

speaking of anti-cheese

https://i.imgur.com/whxBGAN.png

[abstract knoll]

Phytoplankton is only supposed to spawn in the presence of ghost leviathans right?

currently its spawning in the presence of a reaper leviathan

[trail ether]

who told you that

[abstract knoll]

apparently my delusion of understanding this mod

i also cant seem to find the pda entry on phytoplankton

[trail ether]

Lifeforms/Flora/Sea

[abstract knoll]

thanks

[worldly valve]

so maxmmum plant limits?

[trail ether]

yes

the main point behind the feature being preventing abuse of the food plants to largely ignore food as a mechanic

with some secondary things like reducing the power of blood oil in bioreactor

not literally power yield but how powerful that item is because of its high yield per plant and high power yield per item

[abstract knoll]

so slower growth?

[trail ether]

no

[abstract knoll]

ah

[trail ether]

it is not coincidence that the class is named BlightBehavior

[worldly valve]

I was confused for a litttle awhile , i was thinking blighter. But i was pretry sure it was more a plant bkight when i asked

[abstract knoll]

oooooooooh

[abstract knoll]

growth will depend on depth light level?

or atleast it's production oils

[barren oar]

????

whats the problem with making your life easier by being smart and farming to your advantage

also wtf is the purple vegetable plant

[trail ether]

i never said i am disabling farming

but if you just have a growbed full of lantern or bulbo trees then you have nullified food as a mehcanic

[barren oar]

yeah but you're changing it from 12 bulbos a room to 3

[trail ether]

chinese potatoes

[barren oar]

oh huh

well. not only 3 i guess

[abstract knoll]

i would prefer something like a nutrition system that forces you to actually balance your diet

[barren oar]

actually thats still probably enough to fill you up since you get like 5 samples per

just means more replanting❓

[barren oar]

you'd need to rush the floating island then to have something other than Meat no?

[abstract knoll]

by balance i mean you can't just eat 6 marble melons and be good, you would need to make a balance of fish, fruit and vegs

[barren oar]

you also don't have much of a good way to keep fruits or vegetables good over an expedition, you can only really do that with fish

[abstract knoll]

true

[barren oar]

i guess it'd tie into the outposts with farms idea

[abstract knoll]

then someway to craft the nutrient bricks through an additive preservative

[barren oar]

ooh but what if you could cook or salt plants too

er

no that doesnt make much sense they'd still go bad

freeze them?

[abstract knoll]

true

[barren oar]

but again unless you rush the island you're kinda fucked early game

maybe it could give buffs rather than debuffs, in that case

more hp, more speed, slower oxygen usage (? might be busted in combination with the lbs)

even though it doesn't make much sense but to have an incentive to keep it balanced

[abstract knoll]

yea

minor debuffs while your early game

[trail ether]

that, while more interesting, is also FAR harder to imlpemnt and has no way to telegraph to the player

also

you are describing the Spice Of Life mod

https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/the-spice-of-life

which I have toyed with adding to my pack since I really like the idea

but it is one of the most controversial mods that has TONS of people who absolutely despise it and find it nothing but aggravating

part of me suspects they are just the people that want to largely ignore food as a mechanic

[barren oar]

not ignore, but simplify, i do think

im a big fan of the... carrot edition, i think it is? where you have to try new foodstuffs and you get small, permanent buffs when you fill out your discovered flavours

[trail ether]

oh carrot as in carrot and stick

I only know the stick implementation

[karmic drum]

A lot actually. I'm just at this point where I can reach for liquid breathing and go deeper... but I'm not sure it's worth the constraints that the lq system will put on me

[trail ether]

where food yield drops with repetition and you need to eat something different to reset it

[karmic drum]

Also dang. I completely undervalued blood oil since it takes up so much space 😅. Didn't realize it was great for the reactors. That will really help my setup

[barren oar]

yeah that means you're always carrying your main source of food like steak or golden carrot then some additives to keep your diet stable

[trail ether]

I want to add it to DR but the backlash has been extreme

[barren oar]

isnt oculus best by far

or does c2c modify bioreactor yields

[trail ether]

yes but it is harder to mass produce

[barren oar]

acu

one of them

[karmic drum]

Dude I have no clue. I was throwing random fish in and wondering why my power was lacking so badly 😅

[karmic drum]

That's not gonna be enough for hardmode lol

[barren oar]

last i recall its like 400 in a 1x1 item

[trail ether]

itdoes but not much

[barren oar]

nvm 630

in comparison, bloil is 420 but 2x2, so effective power per slot is just 105

[trail ether]

blood oil is trivial to produce in huge quantity

each plant produces 6 or so items

times six per growbed

and it respawns them in a few minutes

ACUs are nowhere near that fast

[barren oar]

which makes it worse than holefish at 280 :woozy:

uh

🥴

there we go

[barren oar]

isnt it going to be limited to 2 per

[trail ether]

that is why i added that yes

plenty for bioproc use but enough to throttle mainstay bioreactor fuel

and make nuclear more important

[barren oar]

oh well nothing 2 more planters cant fix

[trail ether]

which is a thing I have been trying to make C2C push

without forcing

[barren oar]

or 1-2 more acus

[karmic drum]

Ig I could get the seamoth mk3.... but I'd still be going down the liquid breathing system to make use of it....

[barren oar]

hell i had an entire floor dedicated to acus and i think that paid off since i had like 5 by the time i stopped playing

i should also use the acu auto-bioreactor system a bit more

[karmic drum]

I assume there are probably upgrades for liquid breathing you can find later. Because when I used it for the first time on a pervious save. Even with respiratory treatment... it felt like I'd dropped down to using the basic 02 tank in terms of dive time

[barren oar]

also i think having free energy used first is a big help for power usage

power order mod is great

[trail ether]

AE adds some of that itself

look to its config

[barren oar]

ooh reika you think you could add that functionality to the wall mounted

Ah

i was thinking of the wall mounted config buildable but ig that works too

[trail ether]

less power use priority and more like built-in circuit control a la redstone or factorio circuits or ONI logic or something like that

[barren oar]

that sounds fun

[trail ether]

just without actually building a circuit

[barren oar]

aw

[trail ether]

but same "only turn on generator when you need it" core effect

[trail ether]

SN has no foundation on which to build inter-machine anything

same thing put the item router on ice

[barren oar]

simply just make a wire system

[trail ether]

"just"

[barren oar]

if i can manage it anyone could

[barren oar]

so not ordering them?

though same end result ye

[trail ether]

that is what i just sid yes

also holy crap spice of life has suffered horrible fork disease

[barren oar]

its in.,, percentages...?

[trail ether]

yes

[barren oar]

i guess meant to make you constantly update it as you expans

[trail ether]

it is a config, so it is not meant to be adjusted much if at all after being set

so no

[trail ether]

and you typically do not adjust thresholds for these either as you expand

[barren oar]

because you'd use raw number thresholds i would imagine

[trail ether]

you wire your steam engines to come on at accumulators below 20 when you only have five of them and 8 engines

but it stays that way long after you have 5000 and 40 respectively

[barren oar]

but i guess if you expand your power equally its still the same ratios

[trail ether]

the ratios do not matter

the point is that you pick values that are "indicative of load exceeding what the previous "tiers" can meet"

or, relatedly, "indicative of imminent exhaustion"

[trail ether]

like this

if your accumulators drop below 20% then odds are you are soon going to have a full blackout

like sure maybe load would drop to stop that, or maybe that 20% still represents enough capacity to survive the power spike, but odds are that you need to kick on the backup generator

[barren oar]

thats.. fair, yeah i get it now

cant say ive had much reason to have backup gens in factorio, myself

though I've only ever reached oil in vanilla and... catalyst ore generation i think in seablock

and you dont have much variety for power uptill those points haha

[trail ether]

I always move my steam engines to backup-only once i have enough other sources to supply most of my power

in pure vanilla that is not strictly necessary because solar does have priority

(though it can if you want to use nuclear first, as I do)

but once you have other "tier 2" generators involved like KSPower diesel it really matters

[unreal flame]

Oh good lord are you adding crop rotation

[trail ether]

not literally

[unreal flame]

Whether technically, or effectively, or metaphorically, or rhetorically, bad idea

Unless it’s for the food items specifically I guess

[barren oar]

oh shit wait how does overcrowding work

like does it just take that plant specifically into account in the given planter

[trail ether]

almost exclusively

[barren oar]

Er. That type of plant*

[unreal flame]

“Almost”

[trail ether]

blood oil and pyropod

[unreal flame]

Bleh

I can understand wanting to reduce the per-plant yield of blood oil but

[barren oar]

oh yeah do pyropods save how many tendrils theyve got

last i recall someone in this thread mentioned they dont and its reset to 0 or 1 on reload

cant see much in the way of serialization in the repo either but maybe vase strand just isnt it?