#Countering Deathdotting and Freeze Logging with more alternatives to mithril seeds

45 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

ember osprey
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Regarding every "floor trap" idea: It would probably make sense if a player could only use 1 type at a time.

Shadow Cloak Spell - It covers you in a shadow for 20 seconds, hiding your player, with a ghostly shadowy blob in your place, making you unattackable and unable to attack and unclickable and unrendering you, but you cannot move away from the tile you are on or it stops. 2 minute cooldown. If your opponent has a Ring of Visibility or Ring of Shadows, they can see you but not target you.

Smoke Bombs - Credits to u/Beaverzzz for the original concept. You can deploy these at any time, and it creates a 3x3 space that lasts 20 seconds. Similarly to Shadow Cloak, it will "unrender" any player inside it and prevent you from attacking and being attacked. You can enter/exit it any time and jump in/out of it for "Winston shield" gameplay. You can only have one active at a time. 2 minute cooldown.

Requires 60 Ranged and 60 Thieving to use.

Callisto Soul Fragments - Spiritual Bear Traps - If your opponent enters the tile you placed this on, they deal 15 damage and cause a short 2-3 second bind (just like Callisto does). You are immune to your own trap. You can place these as much as you would mithril seeds.

There are no stat requirements to use at least 1.

Every 20 Hunter levels allows you to place 1 more bear trap at the same time up to 80 Hunter for 5 at once.

Abyssal Demon Cores - Teleport Trap - If your opponent steps on this, they are teleported to a random spot nearby, around 8 tiles, and it must be a location they could walk to. If they are teleblocked it won't work. You can only place one down at a time.

Requires 80 magic to use.

Standard Spell: Short Range Teleport - Allows you to teleport to a walkable tile within 6 tiles, and it works even while magically frozen. 5 minute cooldown, and is prevented by teleblock. I believe the Wise Old Man actually uses this spell.

Lunar Spell: Disruption Shield - From Pre-EoC. It's like Vengeance, but instead it nullifies the next hit you take. It only prevents damage, does not actually prevent freezes, but can counter a spec combo. 1 minute cooldown.

Arceuus Spell: Share Ailment - https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1485660950915842048

Share Ailment is my #1 legitimate suggestion out of everything here.

In short, it copies your freeze timer onto your opponent. So if you get ice barraged, you can use this to duplicate the freeze onto them. Now they cannot DD you or freeze log you.

It also copies poison, venom, burning, corruption, and magical stat debuffs.

40 second cooldown between uses, 2x the ice barrage timer.

Dwarven Caltrops - Credits to @latent trail. It is placed on the ground like a mithril seed. It damages everyone that enters the tile (even if repeatedly) for 10% of their remaining HP and lasts 20 seconds.

Requires a Dwarven quest to gain access to use, with a level 65 smithing requirement.

Elven Stick Traps - Learn it from the elves of Prifddinas. You can place some sticks on the floor, which when stepped on by an opponent, do the Tom & Jerry "rake handle stick slaps you in the face" gag, for some decent damage, also it pushes you off the tile you tried to walk onto.

Requires completion of Song of the Elves.

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Countering Deathdotting and Freeze Logging with more alternatives to mithril seeds

glass zodiac
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“Short range tele” seems like it would lead to the escapee getting gap quite often vs someone on normals.

ember osprey
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Someone on normals would have access to it too and would just also use it, no?

I think it'd let them get more gap against Arceuus and Lunars users... but who is "chase" PKing with those :D

glass zodiac
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Didn’t think of that. Leads to more inventory clutter in an already over crowded inventory setup for standard book pking, but doable

ember osprey
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half of the items do indeed take up the same inventory clutter as mithril seeds

the spells are another story as they take up runes inventory clutter :D

well, on standard, you will likely already have teleblock runes or even... "Blighted teleport spell sack" would cover "Short Range Teleport"

glass zodiac
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If that was covered by the blighted sacks I think both parties would be happy!

ember osprey
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now we have something we could learn from the Wise Old Man... the age old bank robbery

And then some day, we can learn his instant-death spell.

severe plaza
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I very much like the idea of short-range tele for active escape gameplay.

latent trail
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(haha yes I meant caltrops, working on my dnd sheet got me all mixed up)

ember osprey
latent trail
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all these ideas got me thinking it could be really cool to have more trap-oriented escapes in general. what if we could place traps anywhere in the wilderness that last for ~30 minutes that we can memorize for our escape routes? lots of caveats that would need limitations and all that, but a fun thought

ember osprey
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HAHAHAHA

that might be a bit crazy

I'm gonna put callisto traps all over the only exit to one cave

also I could trap someone in by doing that

severe plaza
ember osprey
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I am not against Hunter having something for combat. I quite admired how Pre-EoC had Overloads tied to Herblore, gave a real reason to train it and made the skill feel very valuable.

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Aight I added the stick trap.

Elven Stick Traps - Learn it from the elves of Priffdnass. You can place some sticks on the floor, which when stepped on by an opponent, do the Tom & Jerry "rake handle stick slaps you in the face" gag, for some decent damage, also it pushes you off the tile you tried to walk onto.

Some of these traps could also be used "while running" to trip up someone who is chasing you with automatic pathing

Or if we don't like that they could all require a tick delay to plant.

ember osprey
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Wait I'm an idiot.

Barricades - I stole some barricades from Castle Wars and brought them to the Wilderness. I can place up to 10. Lmao gottem.

dire berry
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Gave a 👍 because I think PvP could use some creativity & "patch updates" to fundamental gameplay. Not sure about any of the individual ideas

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You propose a variety of traps - how would you imagine this being used? To counter mithril seeds? To prep your escape route before a PKer even gets on you? To counter ladder/shortcut spam?

ember osprey
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They are used in a similar manner to mithril seeds in the heat of battle.

I didn't really think about having them be something you place well in advance.

The fact that it could be use on ladder spam is an interesting point though! Sure would help that one guy who didn't like the Wilderness Agility course ladder lol, however the mouse could also use that back against the cat too.

serene storm
glass zodiac
ember osprey
ember osprey
serene storm
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DDing is the one thing I do really dislike. Since there is little counterplay to it. And it's one sided too. The person who landed the freeze has the advantage

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Also makes PKing look so silly when you see someone planting flowers.

ember osprey
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haha I had that same thought

like, ah, we're fighting to the death, this person is using ancient and powerfully lethal magicks against me

plants flowers 5 times in a row to get behind a tree

steady crown
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So the short range teleport, I don’t really like because max freeze range is 8 tiles, so unless attacker is basically next to you, it becomes an unfreeze button.

If it is not specific to wilderness, it also becomes a dash ability, which has no place in this game.

If your intent is to introduce a counter to people DDing under you, I believe simply adding an item that allows you to place it under you and makes you un-walkable by the person you are in combat with (you also can’t move) would solve that. It would last shorter than freezes, because keep in mind, both players could use it, so would help prevent freeze logging as well.

This would only be usable in the wilderness, and the in combat with is in there to prevent abuse by teams from trying to trap people in singles with it.

Keep the solutions simple. No need to introduce new mechanics etc.

ember osprey
steady crown
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No, everything you suggested damages players. If you mean the stick traps, they could also be used to trap people with no real counterplay because the person that placed them could move.

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What I was suggesting is more of something intended to combat specifically walking under people with no other unintended uses.

ember osprey
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Share Ailment would be the closest thing to that then

Also if you read the title, you would see these are indeed also freeze log counters

However due to cooldowns and such they don't completely prevent people from attempting those

I can't seem to imagine how you could trap someone with a stick trap unless you mean putting 8+ of them around someone so they can't just tile over them

In which case how did you deploy so many without them moving or getting unfrozen + there'd probably be a limit to how many traps you can place

steady crown
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That has unintended uses though. This is my point. Everything you are suggesting is introducing more mechanics that just don’t need to exist.

Make a wilderness specific (reusable) item that temporarily removes the option to walk under you, and the problem is solved.

Now they need to freeze you near an obstacle to logout and cannot abuse walking under at the same inventory requirements of carrying seeds.

steady crown
ember osprey
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Where are there 1 tile choke points?

steady crown
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Near agility shortcuts, doors, etc

ember osprey
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Oh true

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I still like Share Ailment and Shadow Cloak though

Shadow cloak is the most similar to what you are suggesting however it by design has other uses in being like an Overwatch "Mei self-freeze"

steady crown
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Isn’t the shadow cloak thing just a free logout button…

This is what I mean, introducing new mechanics for no reason.

The ailment spell is also a new way to abuse freeze timers, since it doesn’t have any accuracy checks.

Keep in mind these could be used with spellbook swaps or magic capes, introducing new metas to the game.

ember osprey
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shadow cloak keeps you in combat, no logouts

if you are spellbook swapping you can teleblock on ancients, I see no issue, that's already something people do sometimes

steady crown
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So you can hold someone hostage if they want the kill by just spamming it? Seems silly for no reason.

My intent was to provide the feedback of simplifying the solutions proposed not to debate your ideas and their potential flaws.

ember osprey
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Well yes you are pointing out some flaws and I'm explaining some of those are not the case

And one I agreed yea it's probably short sighted

You can't spam shadow veil nor share ailment because there are different cooldowns for each, if you read the post

steady crown
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Adding cooldowns doesn’t mean they don’t extend fights for literally no reason (shadow) or change mechanics.

Guess you aren’t taking in feedback, bye.

ember osprey
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The whole point of this thread is that it's introducing new mechanics to the game, you're arguing on things that are already addressed in the post

If your opinion is you don't want new mechanics that is fair but at least read what you are talking about

Your suggestion of turning the player into a barricade has the same problems you are saying is a problem. It adds a new mechanic to the game with unintended other uses. It has the same problem of blocking choke points and killing some potential escape routes

steady crown
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It really doesn’t in the same way, because they’d be “rooted” to the spot, so you couldn’t do it when there’s freeze immunity and go the other direction to ensure a re-freeze. And even if you did block an escape route, same concept, you are rooted to the spot, they just run off screen.

Anyway, that’s my last response.