A complete barrows set for Morytania's Elite Diary is a horrible task

[small sky]

Currently, as it stands, this is the longest task from any non-skilling diary requirement. This task was designed back in 2015 when Ironman mode did not exist, the vast majority of people play Ironman, and it is a pain having to grind for 20-60 hours minimum to even complete a set and get this diary done.

1. We have moons, and it is literally just a pain having to complete 300-450 barrows on average to complete a set (if you are lucky, I have spoken with people who completed their set at 650 barrows)

2.Barrows should not be in the Elite tier with all the other content Morytania has nowadays (Sepulchre, Araxxor, Phosani's, and ToB)

3. Currently, as it stands in decent end game no Shadow you can average 12-15 kills per hour if you have a lockpick (Which lockpick is another 2-3 hrs to get)

My Suggestion is:

1. Lazy fix let us use mismatch sets (1 piece of barrows armour per slot, but not necessarily from the same brother)

2. Remove the task and add a new task like: Complete Floor 4 of sepulchre in time.

3. As Jagex has done in the past instead of being 4 items just 1 barrows item.

4. Remove the task and a Phosani's kill or a ToB kc.

5.Make it a certain number of barrows KC task.

There are plenty of other activities in Morytania to do and currently having to suffer and waste an absurd amount of time doing barrows they can improve this diary and make it viable for all account types, specially when even they JMods think barrows sucks.

[random jay]

Took me ~650 chests to finish a set (Torag - not even useful) on my iron. Support.

[small sky]

Yeah, Im at 300 kc at the moment and closest one to complete is torags and Karils, the only useful one is DH and I only have helm. Is funny how reddit hates Ironmen, I posted it there and all I got was hate.

[polar prairie]

The vast majority do not play on Ironman and changing things for irons only is not a good move.

[small sky]

Think about this, what if Wildy Elite Diary requires you to have 100 LMS wins cape to complete the diary, most mains dont touch LMS, most Irons spend a lot of time of LMS, wouldnt you want that to change as a main? I know it currently isnt like that but just a hypothetical situation... besides this suggestion on a main doesnt even affect them whether they need a full set or mismatched set or go and do a different content it doesnt impact them as much as any other game does... why are mains reluctant?

[jagged bolt]

As a main account, I dislike the idea of replacing a task with another task which might be more difficult/more annoying to me.

[small sky]

Thats the boat we are on, why do we have to do the most annoying task to complete when it can be balanced out? More Difficult/annoying? lmao none of the options are more difficult or annoying, maybe pnm kc but is 2026 anyone can kill pnm, floor 4 sepulchre is by far one of the easiest floors to deal, ToB same thing is not hard to complete anyone can do it.

[jagged bolt]

And as a main account, getting the matching set is easier than PNM/Floor 4/ToB. Which is the boat I'd be on.

[small sky]

Then I gave the option to also allow mismatch sets

[polar prairie]

100 lms wins is much different than 650 barrows kc, not a fair comparison at all.

As an ironman, you will get way more kc at way harder and longer to fight pieces of content than completing a barrows set.

Its not that deep and not a problem either.

Your entire idea started off on the wrong foot by saying "the vast majority of people play ironman" when this just isnt true, so my expectations of you thinking about this clearly are nonexistent

[jagged bolt]

Options 1 and 3 sound okay to me.

(Option 5 also sounds okay, though it defeats part of the concept of getting at least some Barrows equipment).

[small sky]

About 20% of active players are playing ironman and its modes GIM. HCIM, etc. Last time people checked about a 25-30% of normal world populations were bots, and around 10-15% are gold farmers, so people who play main accounts are what? 30-35% roughly maybe not the vast majority but a decent %

in the end im like 30 hrs deep into the grind so far and hopefully im done soon, but also keep in mind I did this grind during leagues V as I picked Morytania, and I had to do 200 barrows on Leagues to complete a set...

so the grind is awful, annoying and is not an Elite diary task.

[polar prairie]

Vast majority would statistically imply ~65% or more of the playerbase.

The gold farmers and bots are speculation, and its unlikely the number is actually that high, so I cant in good faith argument for the % being less or more, and it would be bad faith for you to try and use that.

Majority of accounts created for this game and logged in at any time are not irons, regardless of who the owners of them are.

And, again, even from an iron perspective this task is not that big of a deal, as again you will do much harder grinds when you finally get to them.

Ironman is a challenge game mode, its not supposed to be normal or have smooth feeling gameplay. Its supposed to be hard, and sometimes borderline obnoxious. Its not something you have to do.

[small sky]

People complaint about the KQ Elite task and they adjusted it I personally did like 800KC without elite diaries on my main to get a KQ head and finish the diary...

People complaint about the full prospector outfit being too much so they changed it to just the helm...

So I ask again these changes are only good when is one sided?

Ive killed every boss in the game, some I am a high rank, I max and remax the first week of sailing release on my main, I have more wealth than anyone can use. So grinding is not my problem here with barrows, my problem is that the content itself sucks even the JMods have said it, is not fitting into any other Diary grind thats not skill related, second longest grind can be either KQ head which is in the bulpark of 10 hrs or Level 5 all roles in BA which is 4-6 hours and less RNG involved...

[weak kindle]

most ironman dont touch lms either, some just used to do it for good early moneymaker

[small sky]

Rune pouch, Ice sacks, MSB imbues to start wildy slayer grind, Teleports, blighted supplies... most mid game irons have to return to LMS as is the fastest way to supply yourself for wildy content not just early game cash.

[weak kindle]

you get rune pouch in 1.5hours from magic training arena

[polar prairie]

LMS is still pretty prevalent in ironman meta and its not just for money, rune pouch is easily obtainable from there, so

[weak kindle]

like the only reason to do lms is decent early moneymaker with rune arrows or to save in rune cost doing burst/barrage wildy slayer

[polar prairie]

then perhaps barrows needs the KQ treatment instead of the diary being changed.

im also confused by your "one sided" comment, how is this suggestion not one sided? mains can just buy a set, it doesnt affect them at all

[small sky]

My very first suggestion was to allow you to either have a full set of one brother or mismatch set (all 4 components but different brothers) is the very first one.

[polar prairie]

mismatching wouldnt solve the problem as some sets are still cheaper than others so itd likely just be the same sets that people buy as they do now

its still caters to one, minority group

[small sky]

the only sets with a "High price" are DH, Ahrims and Karils, and "Mains doing the diary always use torags as its the cheapest, the solution is: Keep it the current way of completing it or allow you to use any piece you have per slot there is no meta changing for mains nothing is going to change as nothing is cheaper than torags

[polar prairie]

so nothing changes except for irons, we agree

so this would be an iron catered update and serves no overarching actual improvement except to a niche group of players where this isnt even a problem for majority of them, just another grind to be had. yes?

[small sky]

But what is the problem? There are updates that only mains have benefit to it and no one complaints, some for example in the wilderness, rev caves some benefit the pkers, no one seems to bother. Radiant contracts for example is a system more benefiting to mains than irons... we have updates that only benefit mains too. I dont understand your concern or just close minded that if it doesnt benefit you specifically it shouldnt come to the game... Ludacris.

[polar prairie]

mains are the game, everything else is secondary. this is just a fact.

rev caves have been nerfed heavily to actually not favour pkers, and most pkers hate how rev caves work, so moot point.

the radiant contracts benefit everyone equally, you get the same rewards. not sure where you were trying to go with that.

ironman is an afterthought, not the main game. you need to remember that.

a better suggestion would be to fix barrows, not the diary

[weak kindle]

ironman are playing restricted account, you shouldnt be expecting everything to change to make your life easier. Like do they need to make every death safe death so hcim can die without risk. Rev cave changes were for pvmers, yes some items like yama contracts and awakeners orbs are easier to get on main because they are tradable items

[polar prairie]

also funny you say it doesnt benefit me specifically as i have the ironman tag, but i digress.

[polar prairie]

tradeable items are harder to get on ironman... almost like thats the point (this is agreement not arguing against you)

[weak kindle]

like im out here 6x dry on araxyte fang but im not saying jagex needs to give me one out of pity

[polar prairie]

probably put more time in that than you would have for 5 items at barrows for a set

lets make every boss have dry protection for every item and remove all grinds, that will surely increase player retention and value

[small sky]

Radiant system is more benefitting mains not because they are tradeable but because they made sure people could farm them for gp so they are pretty much worthless at this point anyone can buy 100 contracts for less than 20M but Ironman getting 100 contracts is not equal in time and effort, so is more balanced towards main specially because people complaint about the awakened orbs

[polar prairie]

like we said, the entire point of ironman is to not be able to trade or use the ge. you signed up for this and should have expected it.

its foolish to request this not be the case

[small sky]

And again you seem to miss my point, ive grinded lots of stuff my complaint isnt grinding on an ironman, my complaint is that this specific piece of content has no meaning towards account progression after you leave early game to move to Moons, and then they dont look back into this system that has no place in the current state of the game, 20-60 hours for one task not even the hardest combat achievement makes you spend that much time

People struggle with certaine speed tasks, even after attempting 100x to get a ruby proc at the start, you dont get to spend that amount of time to get one task done

[polar prairie]

So then why arent we changing the content instead of the diary

[small sky]

let alone no other task is like that, could be minority as you call it but the point of the game is to be reasonable not to be obsolete

[polar prairie]

And id argue the runecrafting and even fishing tasks are probably close unless you do sweat methods

[small sky]

Because they rather added a new content around barrows Moons

[weak kindle]

tank armor still has benefits, barrows items still used for combat achievements. just because it is not part of the efficient progression guide doesnt mean it is useless

[polar prairie]

Fixing barrows is a much more palatable suggestion than arbitrarily changing a diary for the sake of a handful of ironmen

[small sky]

It is useless once you leave early game to transition to moons, literally you only need tank legs and body and you leave that hell hole.

Runes are being spitted out like crazy everywhere that some people dont even need to buy them in shops anymore or RC

[polar prairie]

The rc comment is about the diary, since thats what were talking about.

You need 91 iirc

[small sky]

86 you can boost

[polar prairie]

I dont think making content that is already hurting because of things like moons and taking away an aspect that keeps it relevant is a better solution than just.... fixing the content

[small sky]

some RC diaries even became easier with the set effect

[polar prairie]

So thats a prime example of how fixing issues with the content is better than changing different content

We got more rc updates>made the diary better, so lets get some barrows updates to make that diary better too

[weak kindle]

strange old lockpicks also make barrows runs a lot faster and you can skip getting potential up for even faster runs. but no one wants to do sepulchre on ironman because its agility

[small sky]

I dont keep up with suggestions or Reddit but I am pretty sure the JMod who designed Moons mentioned something about fixing barrows or making something similar and we have moons

[small sky]

yeah the only thing about that is that I thought they were fairly common and in 120 floor 5 loots and grand coffin ive only gotten one

So I only use it if the door is reeeally far the other side, 4 charges left now.

I may try to pick up one, I also need that damn DH axe for the Hydra CA, recently got my Master CAs done and done wanna lose it with BMR

[weak kindle]

like the best change to barrows they could do is similar to moons where you cannot get dupe for brother until you finish the set. just not sure if that would pass poll

[small sky]

It wouldnt pass, mostly because of set pricess and usability, moons get by this because each set is dedicated to one style...

[weak kindle]

it wouldnt have that large impact on economy but some normal accounts might stop doing barrows if they got couple expensive pieces and only had cheap items left on set

once you finished a set you would be able to get unlimited dupes in that set, so no one can abuse it for long

[brave jacinth]

Diaries are supposed to be personal achievements/milestone in that area, what achievement is there to be had from buying the cheapest barrow set from the GE?

For an elite diary step no less. It just doesn't rlly make senee to me. We have the clue step that requires a full set, keep that one in and change the diary into something more specific to the account

[jagged bolt]

I would presume the achievement is the skill stats required to wear/wield certain Barrows gear, and then to go do Barrows so that you can loot the chest.

I don't find the fact Barrows gear can be bought from the GE to be relevant. Unless you think Achievement Diaries should be strictly Iron-esque on all fronts? Though to me this just sounds like an Iron account doing Achievement Diaries.

[brave jacinth]

If the skill check is the important part, then it could be changed into looting the chest while wearing any barrow item.

[polar prairie]

This is more of an achievement diary as a whole issue rather than a barrows or even this specific step issue, the problem is that diaries came well before a lot of content that we have now, and now the tiers feels very mismatched because of it.

Unfortunately, reworking it entirely (which i would prefer), would likely be off the table due to players being lazy and arguing they have to do the diaries again, you could add a new tier but then you have the issue of the new tier possibly being a bigger jump than some from hard > elite already are.

This is kinda out of scope of this thread specifically, so tl;dr I still think content needs to be fixed instead of small components, like this suggestion asks for.

[brave jacinth]

The easiest fix would be the prospector *diary fix. Change it from full set to 1 item.

[weak kindle]

im pretty sure the prospector change was because varrock armour replaces the top

[jagged bolt]

Personally, I don't mind Option 1 or Option 3, if that's something more reasonable for Ironmen.

I also don't really mind if the duplicate protection from Moons of Peril were added to Barrows.

My initial comment was mainly aimed at completing removing the task in favour of a completely different task, such as PNM or Sepulchre Floor 4 or ToB. Since that's vastly different, and such a change may even be detrimental to others.

[small sky]

The thing is that when you leave things as precedents future content is aim around these things for example Varlamore, what if an elite diary is to catch a moonlight antelope while wearing the hunter set (full set) you know how boring, abnoxious and time consuming that sounds like?

[polar prairie]

Easiest doesnt mean best, you just made an argument for it not feeling like an "elite" level achievement, yet you advocate for it to be lowered even further.

This is counterintuitive.

[polar prairie]

It sounds perfectly fine to me actually and I was expecting there to be a step like that

[small sky]

Thats why I never made an option to only be one part of the set but just all 4 of any

[brave jacinth]

I'd love dupe protectiong on barrow but I feel like it would create more problems than not, and I don't feel knowledgeable enough yo weight in on it so I won't.

[polar prairie]

I think at this point in time, especially with how low barrows prices have gotten, itd probably be fine, but im against it still

[small sky]

At its current state dupe protection would only benefit cloggers, barrows has so many items you could still end up doing the same amount of chests for a set

I just went 107 drya for one item

[polar prairie]

Thats pretty normal if you know how a standard distribution works

[weak kindle]

dupe protection would benefit ironman and cloggers, both small negative and small positive for people doing barrows for money depending which pieces they get first. No impact on values in long run

[small sky]

What I meant is that even if you have dupe protection is no really a guarantee that from 0 to lets say 300 you'll have 1 full set

[weak kindle]

dupe protection would mean you have to hit that brothers loot 4 times instead of 4-50 times

[brave jacinth]

A full rework of the diary system isn't the point of the suggestion, so 🤷
The point is that mains just shopscape the step and do it at kc1, while irons have to complete 500+ to do it. It's a dumb step.
Changing it to 1 item wouldn't change the average main plan of buying the chapest stuff from the GE, while irons would get the step done easier because the point of the diary steps have always been the stat/progression checks, not how much you got dry on this check.
Look at KQ who got a garanteed drop at 256 to complete the step for example. Jagex already agrees with the idea that you shouldn't go dry for god knows how many hours to complete a single step *is dumb, so I fail to see how this would be a bad implementation

We already have a clue step that requires full barrow set, so people will still shopscape for full sets

[small sky]

Ive been called sad and patethic in Reddit, told to De-iron, I was told to learn how to play ironman, or that thats what ironman mode is supposed to be, and Im like pretty sure ive grinded more stuff than them in their entire acct. I quit my iron dropped everything and started from just my farming seeds and im again in end game...

[weak kindle]

so you want a guaranteed completion at around 300kc so you do not have to get more unlucky than average?

[small sky]

All missing to go back to the point I was on last year is a tbow, torva body and ACB. I went 1200kc to get bowfa back

[polar prairie]

We already went over why catering to irons is bad

[brave jacinth]

I don't see that in any of the suggestion fixes losted in op post

[weak kindle]

kq example is same as around 300kc at barrows for automatic pity completion

[brave jacinth]

And we already went over how jagex already changed steps to make dumb steps easier, since the poi t of the step is the skill/quest checks.
Are you going to say that jagex was wrong to change the prospector step?

[brave jacinth]

It would effectively remove the skill check on equipping the barrow items, so I wouldn't really like that

[weak kindle]

I wouldnt want prospector diary step to be changed because someone happened to complete elite varrock before falador hard and has varrock armor 4 already

[brave jacinth]

It has been changed already. From having to wear full prospector armor to only needing the helmet.
So we already have a precedent on how to fix this diary step

[weak kindle]

yes it was changed because someone complained about varrock armor 4 and majority of players wanted easier way

if they poll runecrafting requirements on diaries those will also be removed

[polar prairie]

Yes I am saying that

[brave jacinth]

people complained because grinding that many gold nuggets for a hard step was dumb. Again, the point of diaries is proving you can and did the content.
also no one stops anyone from wearing full prospector over varrock armor 4, and you still need to buy it to greenlog MLM, so the problem literally doesn't exist?

[polar prairie]

The problem leads back to it not being a big deal on release and as new content comes out and new precedents are set, content is looked at poorly retroactively.

Which again is why im for the content being fixed and not steps. Because now we have the prospector step being cited as precedent for changing another step

[brave jacinth]

because, again, asking to spend around 20h just to show you are able to do MLM is dumb.
Again. The point of diaries is to show you CAN do the content. That's why skill checks are there, that's why each step asks you to do 1 of a thing.

[weak kindle]

next its going to be wilderness diary removing the need to cast god spell on someone in wilderness. or maybe not since people need to unlock it anyway for ma2 cape, so they dont notice it

[brave jacinth]

that exists to lock that diary behind the MA questline, so it makes no sense to remove it.

[polar prairie]

Do you feel the same way about the ~60+ hours to get a hydra kill?

[brave jacinth]

and again, huge difference between "I have to do this quest so I can do this diary step" and "I have to grind on average 300 runs of this content in the hopes I can do this diary step".

[weak kindle]

every single diary has steps that make you grind and not prove anything else

people nowdays just dont see grinding rewards as "achievements"

[brave jacinth]

????????

[polar prairie]

Which is insane to say while playing the defacto grindy mmo

[polar prairie]

Nice argument man! I enjoy question marks as an answer to an easy yes or no question

[brave jacinth]

bro you're saying "well this diary has a skill check therefore your argument is invalid"
I literally said multiple times that the point of the diary IS the skill check. That step asks you to kill the hydra once to be completed, it doesn't ask you to greenlog it.
Again, I fail to see how you can miss my point so hard you end up agreeing with me while also going against me???

[polar prairie]

So you ignore the time it takes to get 95 slayer?

[weak kindle]

western provinces diary tells you to kill 1000 chompies to get special hat

[polar prairie]

How about the time it takes to get 86-91 runecrafting?

How about 84-91 fishing, even?

These are all longer grinds and are mandatory to do

[brave jacinth]

please elaborate on how getting 95 slayer equates to doing 300 runs (on average) of barrow

[polar prairie]

Youre right it doesnt equate, its actually longer to get 95 slayer! Crazy, I know

[brave jacinth]

avoiding the question. I'll answer for you...

Slayer is a skill, therefore it can be levelled doing any type of slayer from any type of slayer master. You can skill it up in the wildy, do turael skipping for good tasks and/or unlocks, and each mob kill is garanteed to get you closer to 95 (or less if you boost)

Barrow is content, therefore the only way for you to complete this step is to either buy your way out (which then, why even have it in the first place) or grind for and average of 300 hours the same 6 mobs for the chance of completing a step that the game already knows you can clear with your eyes closed

see the difference?

[weak kindle]

average for barrows set is 313kc

[polar prairie]

Those differences are completely irrelevant as the issue we are discussing is time

[brave jacinth]

again, the hydra diary asks you to kill the hydra once, not to greenlog it.

Do you want the hydra step to be changed into greenlogging hydra to complete it?

[polar prairie]

And during your barrows run you are gaining xp, so really not that different.

You keep moving goalposts when you dont like what I say

[weak kindle]

faldor diary tells you to kill 1200 black knights, desert diary tells you to kill 256 kq (after 2x dry protection), western province tells you to kill 1000 chompies

[polar prairie]

Green logging barrows is one of the better time spent activities within the achievement diary if were talking time, which was your main point

[brave jacinth]

never moved my goalpost... check my first message and my last, my point is still the same.
Diaries are a skill check with some sprinkles on top. Nothing more

[polar prairie]

And to get to those tasks that let you perform the skill check... what do you have to do first?

[weak kindle]

they are called achievement diaries, not skill diaries

[brave jacinth]

right. Skill and quests, which themselves require skill check but I digress

[polar prairie]

You can only spoon feed so much

[weak kindle]

lock barrow behind quest and tell them they need full set, easy fix

[polar prairie]

Id argue there are no skill checks, its simply grind your balls off then do something at the end of it that you actively were grinding towards, you can get ad cape with zero skill

[brave jacinth]

the skil check literally is in the barrow equipment requirement

[polar prairie]

How is that a skill check, its a grind check if anything

Unless you are trying to reuse "skill check" to mean "progress check"

[brave jacinth]

do you not know barrow gear has requirements for wearing it?

[weak kindle]

like there are a lot of diary steps that require ironman to grind more than mains. there are also steps that require also mains to grind. For barrows if you change it to single equipment you are removing half the lvl requirements

[polar prairie]

Im looking at skill check with the traditional meaning, naturally, of meaning you have to have some personal skill to complete it

Like combat achievements, those are skill checks.

If you mean something else then say so

[brave jacinth]

it is a literal skill check. It checks if you have the skill level required to wear it or not

[polar prairie]

Fine I will use your definition of it.

Do you disregard the time it took to be able to perform that skill check?

[brave jacinth]

the time it took to be able to wear barrow gear is the check, not the luck needed to get an entire set

skill levels aren't RNG dependant, loot is

[polar prairie]

So being able to wear it is the check, so the diary should be based on you being able to wear it and not actually wearing it?

[brave jacinth]

looks at prospector diary step change

[polar prairie]

That doesnt answer my question

[brave jacinth]

it literally does

[polar prairie]

It does not, i asked you to clarify on what your opinion of what it should be, having the level or having the gear

[brave jacinth]

and I already answered around 4 times.
Changing the need of a full set to 1 item doesn't take away the level requirements needed to wear a barrow item while not needing to grind for 300h for a single diary step

[polar prairie]

Youre not answering my question, still

[weak kindle]

Kq also had a change and kq is close to barrows as a step compared to prospector, if we go kq route you get guaranteed completion at 2x drop so 600kc

[polar prairie]

And the barrows grind is 20-30 hours at most, no need for over exaggerations

[brave jacinth]

which is the same thing they did with prospector

[polar prairie]

No they caved to crying redditors

As an actual integrity change it was very stupid and unnecessary

[brave jacinth]

going for ad hominems (which aren't even true) doesn't change the fact that the step is purchasable for mains and insanely tedius for irons.

[polar prairie]

Everything on an iron is tedious

[weak kindle]

there are ways to make barrows itself more ironman/collection log friendly which will reduce average grind time by a lot and have very big impact on the extremely dry person. Kq change mainly just removed the extremely dry players

[brave jacinth]

If that's your sentiment, deiron

[polar prairie]

Thats literally what you sign up for. You know that immediately upon seeing no trade, no ge. Its very obvious that you will be grinding

[polar prairie]

Youre actively complaining that a grind that is only a grind because of your game mode is bad.... I think you need to de iron

Getting a set for barrows will be <1% of your total play time if you plan on maxing, even less if you just wanna play the game cause you actually enjoy it

[brave jacinth]

You are not reading what I wrote and it shows... no reason to continue this discussion

[polar prairie]

I read it, disagree with it. Simple as that.

You told me to de iron because I dont want a grind that is only a grind because I am an iron to be removed

[pulsar totem]

Mory Elite Diary isn't even a high priority diary IMO. The only real thing you get as an iron is one extra disease free herb patch. It's a nice extra boost, but nothing absolutely game changing.

[polar prairie]

If youre efficient with your diaries its actually very big

[weak kindle]

point was not priority, it was mains being able to buy gear and irons needing to get set on their own

[polar prairie]

Guaranteed harvest is not something to scoff at unless youre already deep in and have tons from raids n shit, you can do the diary well before that point though

[jagged bolt]

Building on this:

"Loot the Barrows chest while wearing a piece of Barrows armour and wielding a Barrows weapon."

This would be the most you could do to reduce the grind that still maintains the same skill stat requirements.

(Assuming that 1 Barrow armour and 1 Barrow weapon is an appropriate grind for the task and not too easy or too difficult.)

[brave jacinth]

TL:DR
changing barrow diary step requirement from having to wear a full set to only 1 item wouldn't hurt anyone. It still shows you have the levels on the skills needed to wear barrow gear but it doesn't lock you behind doing 300 runs for one step

[pulsar totem]

That's the case with a lot of things

[brave jacinth]

oh yeah, I forgot the weapon has an attack requirement.
100% that.

[polar prairie]

And then you go dry on a weapon and have to do 300 kc and you cry anyway

[brave jacinth]

if we look at diaries, not really? This is the only step I can think of that allows you to do that

[weak kindle]

different weapons have different requirements but any 1 weapon would still somewhat keep the skill level requirement somewhat fine. Wont fix the extremely dry person situation but it could be compromise if not planning to change barrows loot system itself

[brave jacinth]

I mean, you'd go from an average of 300kc to like 30kc

[polar prairie]

You really wouldnt, if the average is 300kc for a set its highly probable to be in that range still

The chance of getting a weapon and any other piece specifically would not reduce odds that drastically

[brave jacinth]

at the end of the day, diaries are proof that you can do the content, not that you grinded endless hours for it.
that's what the collection log is for

[polar prairie]

Good thing you need 1 set not 6

[kindred trellis]

the only compromise I can see is having all 4 slots filled with barrows items instead of a full set specifically

I also hate barrows but I don't think the elite req is too bad, it's good to have for the master step anyways

[weak kindle]

any 1 weapon would still be around 50 kc on average i think

[sharp pendant]

Tbh there are several tasks that could use some reconsidering. Big parts of the diary system suffers from lack of options at release, and it’s been a minute, and a lot of content since then.

[random jay]

I just don’t really think Barrows makes any sense at all to be on an elite diary tbh, but the magnitude of this task is disproportionately long compared to all other diary tasks

[weak kindle]

its about same duration as kq to pity for diary but barrows does not have pity i guess

[random jay]

I would need some heavy convincing to believe they’re anywhere near similar times to completion. KQ is both faster and fewer kc than barrows to complete the task

[weak kindle]

kq is 256kc for guaranteed, barrows is 313 for average. Barrows is slightly longer kill time than kq in max gear, barrows is same kill time or even faster if both are not in max

[random jay]

Yeah and the rate for the kq head is 1/128

Doesn’t make sense to compare the 2x rate to the rate where you might get lucky on average to get a set. Took me 650 for a set.

[limber fiber]

Pales in comparison to the 96 fishing for the very same diary, much rather slash that than the barrows one

and yes I say that as an ironman

[random jay]

90+6 isn’t hard to get and actually makes sense as an elite diary task, as opposed to spending tens of hours to get a worthless gear set from medium diary tier content

Buying a set on the ge adds little to no challenge or content to the task and the content itself is trivially easy

[weak kindle]

killing 1000 chompies for worthless hat, killing 1200 black knights for worthless white armour, 256 kq for worthless head. people only have issue with barrows because mains can skip the grind

[random jay]

All it does is add a 70 def req and 70 in atk or magic or ranged

[random jay]

All of those are significantly faster than barrows. I don’t have a problem with time on a task, I have a problem with a task that inherently doesn’t make sense to be an elite task and takes tens of hours

Entirely different order of magnitude

[weak kindle]

kq also takes tens of hours if you are not in max and go dry

[random jay]

As you yourself pointed out, double drop rate at kq is still faster than the expected drop rate for barrows

[weak kindle]

yes and 1k chompies is faster than 2x rate at kq

[small sky]

This me right now avging 13 kph using ayak

[small sky]

finally happened but I could have sent like 20 CMs during this time

[random jay]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/433756990989402112/1485478645521715251/image.png?ex=69c2ac0b&is=69c15a8b&hm=6e6a68f75b453576cc797551c6a2737d166ce09856542815130286b169785427&

[runic drum]

250 kq kills objectively worse imo

[jagged bolt]

The expected rate for this is 313. So yours doesn't seem too bad.

But, how many Barrow runs do you instead expect would be reasonable to complete the task?

[small sky]

120-150 is a reasonable number thats how long it took me when i was an early ironman to get tank legs and body for moons.

[limber fiber]

took me 700 chests for my first full set lmao
1600 to greenlog
I didn't even want to greenlog, I just wanted the guthan's set, which was naturally the last thing I got

[soft yarrow]

Crazy I green logged in 728 heehee

Regarding the suggestion, I don't mind the idea of "looting wearing 4 pieces" since the set is required for a master clue for no overlap. If we ever get master diaries, a full set makes sense for that