#Raids 4 reward idea: "An bow"

74 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

jaunty junco
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This is not about a mega-rare, just standard loot.

Currently for bows, there isn't really any "normal" general purpose option between the magic shortbow and the twisted bow

  • Craw's bow: Wilderness, own ammo
  • Dark bow: Niche PvP Spec, very slow
  • Scorching Bow: Demonbane
  • Bow of Faerdhinen: Reliant on crystal armour, own ammo
  • Venator bow: Multi-target

I think there is room for a gimmickless bow that basically serves as a better MSB:

  • Can fire dragon arrows, unlike the MSB.
  • Benefits from the quiver's charged effect, unlike bowfa.
  • 3 tick on rapid, like the MSB. Benefits more from seeker arrows due to lower max hit. Gives it some more identity compared to other high-tier ranged weapons.
  • Probably doesn't need a particularly interesting special attack, if any.
  • Gives Masori more of a use before you have a twisted bow.
  • Could be positioned as better vs low-to-mid defence compared to bowfa, with low base accuracy further boosting its pairing with seeker arrows.
  • For irons, balanced against the bowfa by requiring high-tier arrows.

Maybe it's a bit too plain of a suggestion for a raid reward, but for something that would ideally hitting in the same ballpark as a bowfa and be an alternative form of progression to it, it doesn't seem like the worst place to put it.

onyx kernel
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Have you looked into the Sunlight Crossbow at all?
Or are you looking specifically at a 2h Bow in particular

stable plover
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It's a good idea, but what in GUTHIX is that item name

ocean sand
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I mean sure Bofa is a "gimmick" because it's reliant on crystal armour but in DPS terms it very much is a generic bow that can be used in all situations and most bosses. It doesn't have a crutch where its weak to low magic levels like tbow and it out performs blowpipe for high defense. Scobow only useful at demonbane. Bofa very much is the generic bow dps wise. I'm not completely against but the only use case I can see for it is "here is another weapon to use with masori/elite void" where the space kind of falls of in the middle between blowpipe and TBOW since Bofa is crystal armor reliant but I don't see what niche this fills DPS wise. You haven't mentioned blowpipe which is already king at low defence and relitavely easy to obtain

feral meadow
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I dont know where this item would sit. blowpipe is already very strong both eye/bp beat bowfa often. is this supposed to be another bowfa but worse? or do you see it geinunely being better then most options till tbow?

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i do think we need to see a bridge between tbow/no tbow but a lot of that gap comes from higher defence stuff since bp covers lower defence well. bowfa is not really that strong even on high defence. there is a massive gap against tbow/bowfa and bp can still often win regardless over the bowfa

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think msb as starting approach is just very awkward. like starting at mithril scimtar vses scythe. i do like the general idea though of a weapon like this is cool but it needs to be on a lvl closer to tbow rather then away from it to matter

thorny venture
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For a "normal" general purpose bow above Magic shortbow, I would have expected at some point to see a Redwood shortbow.

serene panther
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I've been thinking for a while now that there should be something 2 handed ranged between Tbow and MSB. Something for general purpose ranging that doesn't rely on an armour set and you can just use with a regular set of ranged gear.

It feels kind of weird having fortified masori, but never wearing it because the options I have access to prior to Tbow either rely on a specific armor set (Bowfa) or are more gimmicky like Venator

steep sequoia
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There's really not any place for this in the game as it wouldn't fit any gaps in ranged gear progression.

There's already 2h bow weapons that are between msb and Tbow
Scorching bow is firmly in the middle of that
Then BP fits in between tbow and anything below it

There's just not really any reason for this to exist tbh

serene panther
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Since when was Scorching Bow a general purpose weapon?

stiff sigil
steep sequoia
ocean sand
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the only space that exists is inbetween bofa and tbow but you powercreep on bofa

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you can't make it a mega rare, because TBOW exists, and you can't make it the "fang" of the raid because of how common it will become. You completely bypass the need to grind CG

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at least with atlatl, you can hold off going for Bofa until you push harder content/higher scales

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but a stronger bofa means you'd go for atlatl and probably skip CG Altogether if you can get it through the raid

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i think the main issue is that tbow takes a lot longer to grind than a shadow or scythe does

feral meadow
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eye already has been insane at overtaking/competeing with bowfa. bp as well mains arent even reccomended to get bowfa since bp just does everything better nearly. idt going into raids 4 will be simple esp if this is gona be "the hardest raid yet"

jaunty junco
jaunty junco
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I don't know how far they're going to push range weaknesses (light vs standard) in the future, considering it's very rarely used now, but the difference in ammo types and the usability issues of blowpipe (range, 2 tick being weird sometimes, sucks vs defence, resource cost), I think it has a place. It probably should be better vs defence than a blowpipe, but maybe not so much of a tank buster as bowfa + crystal.

With the game's gear being filled out as it is, obviously there is going to be overlap between another weapon. Not everything has to be so distinct, just look at slash melee weapons.

I originally thought of this because I was wondering "if I got a piece of masori now, when could I use it?" and basically came up with "never, until you get a twisted bow". It feels like there is no step in the "bowfa + crystal" -> "tbow + masori" progression. There is also the feeling of the quiver being rather disappointing without getting its charged effect. Obviously masori has uses without a tbow, but that's just UIMness really pushing the question to its limit; it's still a fairly underwhelming drop for a normal ironman with a bowfa.

hard peak
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where can i find one of these 3t msb?

jaunty junco
steep sequoia
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You'd use Masori a lot
With a blowpipe
I don't think there needs to be a tiny niche that's between the small gap between bowfa and Tbow, that can take advantage of seeker arrows, but is also easier to upkeep than BP just so irons can have an even easier time

feral meadow
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idt that niche would be small tbow is a bigger dps gap then shadow now

steep sequoia
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Because they added a very close weapon in progression to lessen the gulf between Sang and Shadow does not mean they need to lessen the gap between Bowfa and Tbow
Masori bp already exists
This is just iron content

stiff sigil
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Yeah it's definitely iron coated. But it probably wouldn't even be appealing to go for on an iron since if this is the hardest raid yet than ironmen attempting it should probably already have bowfa and blowpipe, so it'd just be a weird small upgrade to get.

serene panther
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Personally, I don't view blowpipe as a general purpose ranged weapon in the same way I view something like a shortbow. It has a lot of good uses, but it's not something I'd classify as "Use whenever you want to just use ranged". Maybe that's because I'm a little stingy and don't want to use scales and darts, but that's just me

ocean sand
ocean sand
feral meadow
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does scy really have to be like 15-25% better? etc there are big gaps imo i think if jagex ppl felt that way they should never have released eye to begin with.

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alot of ppl dont have mrares its not just iron thing

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this is just muspah as an example tbow is like 30% better then bowfa. its nearly 20% better then bp if u somehow can even use bp perfectly/ticklossless which is another big downside of the weapon. muspah is one of those things ppl think ye i can just bowfa it

image.png
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this gap between tbow and bowfa is bigger then the gap that used to exist between trident/shadow on whisp.

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i think that part of problem is ppl just dont understand how good the tbow is and underrate it cuz bowfa is just as good or bp. bowfa=tbow thing is not even remotely true and bp is so hard to use that its just theoretical half the time or comes with some guarnteed tickloss. even then tbow can still be a lot better at encounters

flint panther
flint panther
feral meadow
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most ppl cant we know this cuz ppl struggle to bp maiden freezing perfectly lack of range also makes it awkward u striaght up cant reach things or like zuk etc

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at muspah ud have to switch gear and prayer in 2ticks its just not possible to do optimally

flint panther
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Blowpipe shines where It's comfortably usable. It's just insanely good in many ways. Can be really awkward in places like the ones u mentioned

feral meadow
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look at inferno calcs hm better bow is there. tbow has more veratility then bowfa esp at endgame content. u can use at colo to a lvl near scy etc. bowfa has versatility in sense that it can hit anything but it doesint have good dps almost anywhere. even levithan bp is better i think tbow will also beat it post seeker arrows

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nvm tbow is already basically as good as bowfa on levi

image.png
flint panther
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As a bowfa user I kinda like bowfa cz it's really accurate and consistent. Not bad for an item below tbow. BP with masori good but I don't like the cost/h and the short range makes it awkward. It could be just me but I'm not really comfortable using bp in bossing

feral meadow
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just cuz u have a lot of options for ranged doesint mean they do much imo. if dps gap isint filled its not doing anything imo.

feral meadow
flint panther
feral meadow
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ppl that think bowfa is the truth and good everywhere. im not that interested in bowfa arguement cuz its just bad like if u look into it bp is just straight up better even with a lot of flaws/hardships it deals with. but bowfa is important to adress since its so pouplar

flint panther
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bowfa can be good to learn some content. Like I used bowfa to learn toa. People made fun of me at first for selling my bank to get bowfa just so i can learn toa. But it really helped me because of the consistency. Tried crossbow as others asked but it has low hit and during the enrage I don't got time for having low damage. but now i can use bp or eyak comfortably

feral meadow
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i think ppl just overestimate bowfa is the problem and a lot of ppl believe it. a lot of ppl still think bowfa is bis at levi

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even for irons with eye bowfa has lost so many use cases dps is so bad that a magic weapon can overtake it nearly everywhere u were using it before

flint panther
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Bowfa has lower dps than tbow and bp but bowfa can be used widely where range matters.but bp can be awkward. Probably that's why players widely prefer bowfa. And most casual players don't really take 0.5 less dps seriously.

feral meadow
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.5 is only the gap between bowfa/bp really gap between bowfa/tbow is night and day legit trident vses shadow lvl imo

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anyways thats just my 2cents i think there is a really big gap that isint being filled that could be. think if we allowed eye into game then something similar should happen for ranged/melee as well. not just for irons but everyone

flint panther
flint panther
feral meadow
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tbow is 1st bp is 2nd eye/bowfa is 3rd dhcb is a real option though and thats better for cox with bp/shadow

feral meadow
flint panther
ocean sand
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like it has to feel like a big upgrade otherwise "oh nice.. 5% dps upgrade woo.."

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going from a tent to a scythe at tob for example is so nice, I have ayak on my iron and im hunting a shadow but it aint gonna hit the same when I do eventually get it

ocean sand
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anyone that says bofa is bis is obviously clueless so you dont take there arguments into consideration but a bofa + crystal armour unlocks 400 TOA's comfortably and a blowpipe doesn't. Its one of the most versatile weapons in the game, it doesn't have to be strong it's just so good for so many pieces of content

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like I am farming 500 solo toas at an average of around 40 minutes and I just have bofa

feral meadow
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its also better on akkha to

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if ur grinding for tbow or scy etc without a occult or oathplate/rancour idk same goes for toa. its pretty standard advice to get all ur pre bis raids gear before grinding raids seriously. the more extreme expectation is even to grind mrares ontop of that before doing raids (scy/shadow pre cox)

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theres some problems with this calc but general concept is not that far off. the point more so is to show that bowfa isint even all that for majoirty of bosses in toa anymore

ocean sand
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also what raid level is that and what ayak spec

feral meadow
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its like 400 raid lvl but if u assume magus/a better helm its really not that hard to compete. also assumes 52 bowfa max when it really should be 51 for most ppl