#A tick-manipulation focused skilling quest

46 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

tough pilot
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There has been a lot of focus in the game to bridge the gap between mid-game PvM and high-level PvM through bosses such as Scurrius, Moons and Huey teaching movement and prayer switches.

However, there is a gap between low-level skilling and high-level skilling that leaves the majority of players scared at the thought of considering tick-manipulation methods for skilling nor understanding what it means.

In short, tick-manipulation is nothing more than understanding the rhythm of the game.

The suggestion would be a short quest with Party Pete which involves you learning some new dance moves for a Party, but before Pete teaches you these new moves, he requires you to perform some seemingly random tasks to help you find your rhythm (think of the Karate Kid, wax-on-wax-off scene).

Some rough idea for the tasks could be:

(1) You're asked to wash Party Pete's clothing in the river while being hit by a swarm (hitting 0s). You'd have to dunk his clothes in a fishing spot while avoiding a visual karambwan that appears out of the water every 2 ticks (the basics of 2t harpoon fishing https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Tick_manipulation#/media/File:Tick_manipulation_-_2t_Fishing.gif)

(2) You're asked to wrap some presents for Pete which would involve you putting a bow on the present and placing it on the ground. This would involve you adding a bow to a box within your inventory and placing it on the ground and would require you to place 10 presents within 20 seconds otherwise they'd all collapse (being the basics for 3t chins https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Tick_manipulation#/media/File:Tick_manipulation_-_3t_Hunter.gif)

(3) You're asked to play an instrument for Pete's band that requires you to play the triangle (just a generic idea that could have some metronome pattern to it).

The reward would be a new dance emote and some new basic understanding of tick manipulation learned in an engaging way.

Thank you for listening to my ted talk.

mild violet
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It’s a nice idea, it could even be a mini quest.

I think there’s a thing that came out with the infernal shale rocks by Yama that helps teach tick manip, but I have not interacted with it (and I’m sure many others haven’t either)

tough pilot
bold ingot
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I would rather they honestly take a hard think about moving away from tick manip. It's not healthy for the game in the long term and it is almost certainly restricting design at this point.

tough pilot
tawdry skiff
shadow umbra
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they are actively designing with it in mind, you can dislike that sure but tick manip and stuff like red x or prayer flicking will not be going anywhere, might aswell teach people how to actually do them

tawdry skiff
shadow umbra
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Correct but since they are and there are no hints they would be moving away from that (quite the opposite) thats not a good argument against teaching it to players. And it being unhealthy for the game needs citation

tough pilot
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Either way, these tick manipulation methods have forever existed in the game. I'm not sure if you read the post, but I'm not asking them to make design decisions to introduce new methods, it would be to teach the pre-existing methods and get a better understood of ticks which is useful beyond just tick manipulation.

tough pilot
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Bump

lone wagon
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I mean I’m generally for future skilling methods being “tickmaniproof” so to speak, but as long as some skilling methods exist, and tick-manip is an option to elevate the efficiency for those who wish to engage with it, this does make sense.

covert stratus
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I downvoted but I would be okay if this was a mini quest

tough pilot
tough pilot
lone wagon
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As in I prefer if new methods are designed and balanced around “intended” gameplay. With varying degrees of intensity. But say a low-mid intensity activity ending up being nerfed because the tick-manip version might be too powerful could be a possible downside.

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Not that I have anything against tick manip methods existing, but I’d imagine they could cause some balancing issues that could negatively affect otherwise good gameplay.

tough pilot
# lone wagon As in I prefer if new methods are designed and balanced around “intended” gamepl...

Oh, I get you. Tbh tick-manip methods have always been emergent, so while I know that Jagex has it in mind while designing content, i'd hope they just go ahead with whatever their design is. I don't think they've generally ever nerfed a method, because I think high click intensity is rewarded with great xp.

All that said though, salvaging did become a lot more fun when they took into consideration how bad the tick manip rates were pre-buff lol

tough pilot
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Bump

solar anchor
# tough pilot How so? It has been a part of the game so long as old school has existed

Tick manipulation isn't healthy for the game, and is incredibly unhealthy for players. Carpal and Cubital tunnel are absolute monsters, and cubital tunnel quite commonly needs surgery to fix, and that surgery includes completely cutting the muscle in half, and stitching it back together, and then years of daily rehabilitation for your arm to work like it used too. And while cubital is more common from over using the elbow, carpal tunnel isn't a joke either. Quick snappy wrist movements, elbow movements and clicks are terrible, and should be reduced as much as possible especially for a game where you might have to kill the same creature or do the same activity multiple hours a day. If it was up to me quick switchign prayers, swapping gear, and other snappy mechanics like that would be lessened, and much more forgiving then it currently is. Having tick manipulated methods for the people that don't care about their health, and are willing to sacrifice their arms, wrists and hands for increased XP, is fine. But normalizing it to make it more common is absolutely not the play, and the last thing the game should do is advertise it as recommended mechanics.

tough pilot
shadow umbra
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what makes you medically qualified to say this movement cant cause carpal tunnel or RSI in general

tough pilot
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probably the same medical qualification other people in this thread hold to say that it does cause carpal tunnel?

shadow umbra
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thats just a crazy thing to say with a minute video as "proof", glad you arent having any problems but tons of people playing osrs have wrist problems, you read about it here all the time. streamers and youtubers also regularly talk about it

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doing the same repetitive movement with your hand for hours on end can cause RSI and carpal tunnel, thats just common sense. People can get it from writing, playing an instrument, gaming, etc

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you specifically not having any problems doesnt prove anything, peoples sinews and carpal tunnels are genetically built different, people do different amounts of exercise, hold their mouse different, have varying DPI etc etc

tough pilot
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King Crow's argument is that to tick manipulate you require snappy wrist movements and elbow movements. As I've displayed in that video, there aren't extensive movements with your elbow or wrists required to what is considered the most click intensive tick manipulation method in the game. The majority of people that I know that do extensive tick manipulation are doing so at 400 dpi.

If the argument is that any of the 'same repetitive movement with your hand for hours' is an issue, than that's an issue that extends to being on a PC or playing the game generally and isn't solely something that can be attributed to tick manipulation for it to be a discussion here.

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as far as i am aware, Dino is a streamer that currently has wrist issues and he pk's. its akin to therefore arguing that we shouldn't encourage people to PK. if your argument is that there are multiple issues that can lead to carpal tunnel or wrist issues, I struggle to see why it is that it needs to be mentioned here other than through pseudo knowledge.

shadow umbra
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i dont agree with his take of RSI or carpal tunnel requiring "snappy wrist or elbow movements" either, thats clearly not the sole cause. thats why i find your video proof of it not relevant either. yes any gaming in excess can cause those health problems but i think its a bit disingenuous to suggest that it doesnt matter if you do 120 extremely precise clicks per minute or 10, the former is obviously putting more stress on your body

tough pilot
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i dont agree with his take of RSI or carpal tunnel requiring "snappy wrist or elbow movements" either, thats clearly not the sole cause. thats why i find your video proof of it not relevant either.

Not really sure what you arguing with me for then? I didn't find what he said to be accurate, so I was displaying that to him, hence the video.

Personally, I don't think clicking my mouse with my finger 10 times a minute or once per minute is going to have much effect on my wrist given the minimal amount of movement that is occurring there. But given that neither of us appear to medically qualified, I don't think either of us have much more to discuss

west tree
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tick manip has some good and bad parts really

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the skilling stuff like using knife is prob the least interesting since its seemingly just purely more exp gains and doesnt introduce much else

tough pilot
west tree
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it is better than just afking yeah

tough pilot
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yeah, personally i only really load the pc when i want to actively play the game. so afking through skilling levels would be about as boring as ist could get for me lol

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but yeah, there's good and bad aspects to it. however, I think that given it has become a feature of the game at this point, there should be some level of tutorial in game so that people can at least understand how it works and have the option available to them to give it a try if they wish. i think its far less scary than people think to learn.

spark basin
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Tick manipulation shouldn't be considered a mainstream mechanic nor balanced or promoted around in the same sense that things like animation cancels in fighting games are left to be emergent mechanics players figure out, not things that are tutorialized.

west tree
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prob kinda hard to do an ingame tutorial in osrs tbh, youtube video does better justice

tough pilot
tough pilot
west tree
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yeah i strongly support tutorialising as many mechanics as possible

hidden spade
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Miniquest, maybe.

Full quest that people are required to do to get back their questcape? No thanks.

I believe it should remain optional and not lock previously acquirable things.

The sweat cloth they just introduced with Yama for the tick manipulation was fine as you didn't "have" to interact with it whatsoever, same as any other tick manipulation method in the game.

solar anchor
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As someone who has played runescape since the classic days, and suffer from carpal tunnel and cubital tunnel(I personally believe that my job is a portion of the reason for the cubital tunnel, half my hand is permanently numb, and luckily the feeling has came back in my index and middle, and I use that to gauge when I need to slow down or take a break when the numbness comes back. But my life of gaming has probably played a huge role and then the job just put the nail in the coffin. Tick manipulation is fine as optional methods. Especially since I love to keep up with my quest cape, the last thing I want is a quest that's gonna require me to do heavy click intense activities. Most tick manipulation in the game is unintended mechanics that they kept, and that's how it should be. If a method is figured out keep it, but don't actively design content around it. And despite what you believe quick and snappy movements/clicks does in fact worsen things, and it's not the sole cause. But for people that are tick manipulating, they are trying to rush to get perfect timing, and in content both PvM and PvP wise you are constantly trying to switch prayers, swap gear, click on tiles and players, and often are making quick and snappy movements, hence why I brought it up. I wish I could say there was other things to blame other then my gaming/computer habits. But I didn't really fall in line with the real world till much later in my life, so I wasn't working or do anything else that could have caused these issues, most of my time was spent playing games, or playing on the computer.

I'm thankful they added hotkeys to quickly swap between different tabs, compared to back in the day. I'm not the biggest fan of combat switches and prayer swapping, etc. But I do understand there are limited options for mechanics, so i accept them. If they wanted to add a tutorial about tick manipulation, and explain that it'll never be mandatory, but there are niche uses, that'd be fine.

tough pilot
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it's really quite the misconception that people tick manipulating are 'trying to rush to get perfect timing'. tick manipulation is about rhythm, not rushing. it does not work to rush. this is arguably the reason i think people need a tutorial about the basic concept of what tick manip is and how to do it. there really seems to be some misconceptions as to how it is performed and the intensity required for it.

but as for the whole carpal stuff, if youre attributing it to having played other games, work and haven't seemingly tick manipped extensively before, then im not really sure how it is to blame for your injury? seems to just be a general problem of being on the pc and not tick manip specific.

tough pilot
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Bump