#Fix mid level Mage gear tiering

36 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

split flower
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For anyone who's unfamiliar with mid level Mage gear, the tiering is SUPER scuffed, the area of Mage gear in the most dire need of attention is going from Infinity at 50 Mage/25 Def up to Ahrim's at 70 Mage/70 Def.

Below is the order that each slot goes in from best to worst by Magic attack bonus using four sets from that level range.

Hats: 3rd age > Ahrim's > Infinity > Dagon'hai

Robe tops: Ahrim's > Dagon'hai > 3rd age > Infinity

Robe bottoms: Ahrim's > 3rd age > Dagon'hai > Infinity

As you can see it's all over the place, there's almost no consistency, the only thing consistent is that 3rd age is always above Infinity and Ahrim's is always above Dagon'hai. Ideally I think the stats of the pieces need to be rearranged to match the order of the robe tops, that's the order that makes the most sense from a level requirement point of view.

hybrid badge
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there also is bloodbark/moons gear as well but I dont think this is that stressful of a thing. seems like a easy fix either way though

split flower
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This is admittedly a very minor/nitpicky thing but it leads to some awkward situations like how technically BiS Mage on a 45 Def Zerker for example, is 3rd age hat, Dagon'hai top, and 3rd age bottoms. I'm sure there's a few other unique quirks at different levels similar to this.

hexed pier
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Wym "Moons is consistently right below Ahrim's?" Moons gear is the same magic offensive stats as Ahrim's and also has melee str

split flower
hybrid badge
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is it really end of the world though? i always thought it was kinda cool back in the early zulrah days ppl wanting 3a hat. obv zerker meta is more important ig these days but i dont think accuracy is that important especially for a helm

split flower
hexed pier
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I don't think posting a single message is "spam" but I'm glad you feel the need to put others down

hybrid badge
split flower
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Further proving my point that Moons stats would not need to be touched in that case, thanks.

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All this fuss over me making a typo 😆 this discord is so funny sometimes, in case you guys were curious this is what I'm looking at, hence why I accidentally said Moons is "below" Ahrim's. (it's just how the wiki orders it my bad y'all)

split flower
wispy minnow
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I had no idea that they were all over the place, I dont see a con to aligning them properly

split flower
gentle grail
# split flower Yeah specifically the stretch from Infinity to Ahrim's is super messy and incons...

The problem is laid out in the image you've posted: There's not much of a gap. There's not much to fill.
Robe tops as an example since it's the largest.
Mystic gives +20 accuracy and +0% magic damage. | Bought for GP.
Infinity gives +22 and 1% | Reward from Minigame, takes ~15h for full set
Ahrim's gives +30 and 1% | Reward from Barrows, probably a 20h grind?

In between is Dagon Hai, a +25 and 1% armor, which addionally gives +2 prayer, making is superior to Ahrims/Blue Moon in circumstances. Obtained from doing wilderness slayer.

The armors exist to be gotten, it's just a matter of opinion if you think they're worth while. This is the top, and it's only going up by +3 each time because magic is factored differently than other skills for accuracy. The other pieces have even less of a gap between pieces. Bloodbark serves as an alternative to Infinity, being more defensive and potentially quicker.
We could flood the range with other armor, but is there really a need to do so?
Ranged is arguably the odd one out with a easily accessible set at every major level with dhide being craftable. Melee has... Rune at 40 (easy), Granite at 50 (lol...?), Dragon at 60 (Complete RNG and potentially unavailable until much later), and Barrows at 70.

I ultimately don't see low level gearing as a huge problem. Most of the 70 content in this game was designed as a jump available from 40 gear, and the content has kind of developed around that paradigm. It might look wierd, but the gap between 40 and 60/70 is mostly filled with niche sidegrades you can go get if you want for specific tasks rather than a pillar of the gearing system, and that's mostly because of how combat functions. We don't need gear at every level like RS3 because our combat system doesn't necessitate it. I think it makes the game more interesting having sidegrades than verticallity.

dreamy hound
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I dont think your justification for changes makes a lot of sense. It really doesn't matter what their mage attack bonus is. If something has high magic def you don't use magic, that's been the rule of thumb for years and years (with the shadow being the exception)

People only really care about magic damage bonus. All the other stats just have minor benefits to make em a little unique like prayer bonus from dagon'hai or more defense stats from Ahrims.

It just kinda feels like asking for a change that won't really change the how people decide between mage pieces, what content they'll do, or anything else really at all.

hexed pier
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I don’t really even see it as a negative that no single set is strictly the best set. The initial post also doesn’t consider things like prayer bonus which are honestly a lot more important than an accuracy bonus or two when we look at something like dagon’hai vs. infinity. The order listed on the Wiki means nothing, and not even level has to be a deciding factor, strictly speaking; Inquisitor is better than Rune armor sets, despite having lower requirements. Ultimately the wiki is a third-party listing regardless.

gentle grail
# hexed pier I don’t really even see it as a negative that no single set is strictly the best...

FWIW, the wiki is semi-first party.
It's funded/hosted on Jagex servers (or something like that), has an official link to it in game, has official first party integration (see leagues), and Jagex shares information with the lead contributors before some things come out to help with compatibility.
Just about the only thing "third-party" about it is that it is a literal wiki which anyone can contribute to.

split flower
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Essentially the problem amounts to the fact that at certain levels you have to mix and match random Mage gear to get your "BiS". No other combat style has this problem. This would be like if you had to use a Red d'hide body with Black d'hide chaps and a Karil's coif to get your BiS Range at 70 Range. Wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. Doesn't make sense that Ahrim's hood is beat by 3rd age mage hat when no other item of the 3rd age mage set beats any other item of Ahrim's, so it causes weird quirks like how BiS 70 Mage is a 3rd age hat with Ahrim's top and bottom, or how BiS for a Zerker is 3rd age hat, Dagon'hai top, and 3rd age bottoms. Just like how d'hide is properly structured relative to lower level or higher level gear, or how there's obvious uniformity in melee gear tiers, Mage gear simply needs a few tweaks to achieve the same proper tiering.

rich crypt
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Idk, jankiness like this is what gives osrs its charm. Maybe they should be a bit more consistent, but I don't think there should be a clear winner or a tiered system like rs3

split flower
rich crypt
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That doesn't make it a good design decision. Out of all of that tiered gear what have you actually used? Blue dhide? Mithril? It's mostly dead content. I'd argue it's better to keep the gear pieces unique and interesting

split flower
rich crypt
split flower
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I already did, is reading difficult for you?

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This isn't some complex like super thought-provoking opinion, it's just how the game is supposed to work. Generally gear effectiveness is somehow tied to the level requirements in a way to where you will normally use a complete set as a replacement for an old set you used at a lower level. Mage gear is the only area where this doesn't uniformly apply. No reason 3rd age mage pieces should sometimes be better than Ahrim's but also sometimes be worse than Dagon'hai. If we go just by the level requirements, 3rd age should be below Dagon'hai, Ahrim's should be above Dagon'hai, etc.

If you look at Ranged armour they do this very well, each tier of dragonhide or other sets are just straight improvements over the set right below it.

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At this point I feel like I'm going in circles with people who never developed an adult level reading comprehension level, you either get it or you don't, doesn't really matter to me personally. This is super basic, like game design 101 level stuff lil bro

rich crypt
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I guess I don't really need to argue with you if you're just going to shoot yourself in the foot with personal attacks

You didn't give a reason why tiered gear is a good system, and since you stated your opinions are fact I'd expect some actual evidence too

dreamy hound
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You can disagree without insulting people's intelligence. Keep your comments focused on your points and less on calling people "lil bro".

If this thread turns into just insults being thrown back and forth I'll be locking it.

split flower
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Leave this discussion to those of us who understand the topic being discussed

sour kayak
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He has every right to be here.

split flower