#How to not get banned again

17 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

sacred oriole
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Hello again, some of you may remember my face/name - I put a post on here a few weeks back about how the appeal system and auto detection are unfit for purpose due to my hcgim being wrongfully banned for "major macroing" and my apparent use of "illegal third party software" which has (somewhat unhelpfully I must say as choosing and hiding posts about false bans diminishes the very real problem going on right now) been closed.

Anyway, if you accept the premise of me being banned incorrectly (I understand there are many that don't and instead believe every ban is correct so bear with and try this as a thought experiment), if I return to playing on my main, how can I not get banned when jagex won't tell me why I was actually banned?

Like .. let's say it's some app I have that they have flagged as malicious, or some suspicious set of actions I did in the game (default android game client) how could I ever justify logging into my main again knowing this could happen out of nowhere, and no one will help, then thousands of hours are lost forever. (Thankfully my hcgim had only been going for a few months but I'd been really going for it)

I appreciate jagex can't be fully transparent, but something/anything that resembles a human interaction from them would have been great so I could have known why they thought I was using macros and address it. I suppose in doing so they admit error, so they're unlikely to do that. But also -policing what apps someone happens to have on their phone seems ridiculous, what other game is so overbearing?
Apart from some bloatware, I have a valid reason/use case for having every app on my phone. Not everything should be viewed through the lens of an attack vector towards osrs.

Input welcome

carmine bobcat
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I really thought the new support system would be a step in the right direction for these issues, but it turns out to just be ai slop. Its bizarre that in 20+ years, Jagex support communication is still as bad as ever. I can't think of another game that treats the customer with so much disdain.
Godspeed Carlin.

wispy sorrel
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I guess they got overhyped thinking AI could finally take over support. Where there was no support or reaction at all, there is now an automated response from AI. If this community wasn't just toxic and hope for a mod smackdown every post perhaps Jagex would take it something more serious. Never have there been so many "false ban" reports. I guess we'll just need to wait untill there are so many that they are left no choice but to investigate it.

unique walrus
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Yeah (in my opinion) I do feel like the current take from the community is that if you receive a ban you're just straight up guilty.. which combining that with AI in it's current state is just bizarre since we've all seen the memes online and the inconsistencies from AI.
Also it's statistically proven that people prefer to speak to people and i'm sure the funding should be there for Jagex to put aside time or resources for human support (even if it has long queues which could deter the legit bans to the false ones). just an idea..

fair trellis
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Being a victim of this previously myself, I feel this is something that we, as a community, really need action on. I understand how helpless you can feel when all your attempts at some assistance are completely dismissed. It does feel to everyone that the only people taken seriously are the streamers within the community and even then, they are sometimes banned for 'macroing offences' and then later un-banned after providing evidence of their YouTube or streaming videos. This should highlight a major issue that the 'regular joe' has no chance of appealing. I'd be absolutely devastated if i was to lose my main iron to something like this now, with all the time I've spent in the game.

sacred oriole
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the only people taken seriously are the streamers
💯
I can't provide a history of video evidence of innocence 'cause I'm just some rando trying to eek out a little dopamine from the spare minutes I get between work and childcare by playing on the official mobile client. I know I haven't done anything wrong like I know my own name.. but that isn't enough.

If they turned around and at least offered something more meaningful like you were banned for xyz I could refute it and/or have a dialog, weigh up options of - do I want this app they seem to think is against the rules, or to play osrs again- at least give me the choice.

some possible examples that they could flag for:

your phone is in developer mode
I could justify it by saying, yeah no shot, I've been a game dev for the past decade

you have a folder called <com.application.name>
Firstly, why tf are you snooping in my phone's folder tree, secondly - yeah, funnily enough I installed this absolutely stock app from a thing called "google play store" - same place I get osrs.

Instead, the onus is on me to prove innocence where I cannot because how do you prove you didn't do what you didn't do? So all I can do is write out a plea like I'm begging for the life of my first born son, grovelling at their feet to show some mercy... only to wait a week to get a blithe AI or boilerplate answer in response.

I've also only lost < 1 month's worth of membership, if I were 20 days into a year's membership I'd be **even more *livid.

warm stratus
# sacred oriole Hello again, some of you may remember my face/name - I put a post on here a few ...

I really don't have a satisfactory answer I can give you. :/
You can review the rules here https://jgx.game/Rules-, there's also a "Macro and client features not permitted" section.

You should be able to appeal a second time if you haven't already https://jgx.game/OffenceAppeal-

In response to the other comments here about ban appeals being handled by AI, that is not the case.
https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1nl577y/player_support_roadmap_september_check_in/nf38yvs/

Hey - happy to clarify things here. Offence appeals are not determined by AI - a human J Mod will review each appeal. Once the appeal is complete the J Mod will send a response and outcome. To be clear, these responses are not typed by hand by each J Mod reviewing each individual appeal, that would be hugely inefficient. We are clear about this in the confirmation message that submitted appeals receive.

The key point is that a human has conducted the review, and then chooses a tailored (but largely pre-written) response. For this reason you may see many people say 'they got the same response' - which is likely true, but it doesn't mean the appeal has not been given fair and complete consideration by a staff member, it means the circumstances are very similar, so a similar appeal response is delivered.

wispy sorrel
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That response is as valid as their blog about player support. They wouldn't need to defend themselves if their actions were anywhere near their claims about better support.

If they can't even respond in an human format, which is hell of a lot easier than the investigation itself, how do you expect us to believe they are indeed doing that?

carmine bobcat
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If it is not AI as they say, then its just really poor customer service done by a person 😕 . Seems insane no one at Jagex will tell you (someone who has invested time and money into their product) what you did wrong, and thinks a copy pasted statement is just an acceptable outcome?

sacred oriole
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which is hell of a lot easier than the investigation itself
This is a very generous assumption that there is an investigation in each case.
At present, I don't believe we are being granted this, it feels like if there is actually a person reviewing these, they must have so many to get through I imagine the investigation goes something like this:

  • oh this was initially raised/flagged by a jmod
  • ignore the entirety of the appeal text (as jmods are infallible)
  • uphold the ban
  • look no further
  • slap an auto response in there
  • on to the next appeal
wispy sorrel
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That's why I said "how do you expect us to believe they are indeed doing that?" 😀

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And its sure as hell not being flagged by a jmod initially, some streamers got insta logged out live while trading

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Then again, you can't even open a ticket in the "new support centre", the AI auto-solves and closes every ticket created. Only (some) appeals stay open.

stoic radish
# sacred oriole > which is hell of a lot easier than the investigation itself This is a very gen...

yo, finally someone with common sense, its really felt like a guessing game on "what jagex really want to hear from us" so we can get appealed

mainly from what i gathered, they wanted to hear our confession that were sorry (even if werent rule breaking), but by doing so, will makes them blind on the possibility that their system can be flawed and had some false positive

i mean, what can we do after they say "our system said so, thus what u said is untruthful", does they want us to be honest, but they wont believe us anyway? or do they want us to just lie and confess that were deeply sorry for what their system flag us, but they might take it as "i knew this pleb is cheating, and now they are folding"?

sacred oriole
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The amount of "I've been banned for just playing the game" posts recently would suggest they've maybe pushed an update to "improve" some of the detection but it's a bit overzealous, and from what I can tell is disproportionately affecting ironmen, but it mustn't be bad enough yet that they care to do anything about it or admit fault.
..yet

carmine bobcat
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Has anyone heard/seen anything that Jagex are aware of this overarching issue, or is it still "we make no mistakes"?

tough iron