New Mega Rare suggestion and a solution to the Scythe problem

[gleaming marsh]

Straight to the point; A suggestion/proposal of a new mega rare for future raids or end game content that adresses issues regarding Scyte of Vitur's domindance in melee even outside of its niche, while also repurposing other previously BIS 1-handed weapons such as Blade of Saeldor, Inquisior's Mace and Ghrazi Rapier.

What is it?
The new proposed mega rare is an offhand item that grants your mainhand weapon a new passive effect that increases overall DPS. This new effect take the aftermentioned weapons, Blade of Saeldor, Inquisitor's Mace and Ghrazi Rapier to levels that rival or even outperforms Scythe of Vitur in certain situations.

What is the passive effect?
The passive effect grants your mainhand weapon a chance on successful hit to increase your attack speed for your next attack, similarly to the Blood Moon set effect.

What's the numbers and mechanics?
The effect has a 50% chance to trigger and reduces the cooldown until your next attack by either 1 or 2 ticks. In the case of a trigger, there is a 50% chance to increase your attack speed by 1 tick and a 50% chance to reduce it by 2 ticks.

Two more sections in the comments cause i'm hitting the symbol cap lol
If the balance is off in practice and testing the trigger chance and ratio of whether the attack cooldown is lowered by 1 or 2 ticks can be adjusted.

Where does this leave Schythe?
With this balance, assuming that the new mega rare has the same stats as Avernic Defender, it makes Blade of Saeldor BIS for lower slash defence, Inquisitor's Mace BIS for most if not all crush weakness and Ghrazi Rapier BIS for all stab weakness.
Scythe of Vitur remains BIS against higher slash defence and no specific weakness assuming that the moster is at least of size level 3.

CONTINUATION

Why does it matter?
Scythe has dominated the melee space in most scenarios due to its strength and because of this made the 1-handed weapons nearly useless in comparison. This new mega rare brings usefulness back to the old weapons without needing to introduce further powercreep beyond levels that Scythe already provides.

What about comboing it with fang/dh lance?
Osmumten's Fang and Dragon Hunter Lance would be drastically broken with this and thus the mega rare only grants its passive to weapons that does not already have a passive effect in place.
The mega rare is intended to bring unviable weapons back, not strengthen all 1-handed weapons. Restricting its passive prevents it from breaking other weapons and leaves space for more unique weapons with effects in the future.

If there's any further concerns or ideas feel free to drop them below. Theme, where and how to aquire it and if it's an upgrade or a sepparare drop is all up for debate and now something i will push myself in this proposal.

[fallen bison]

So scythes only niche would be high slash defence when scythe scales very poorly with defence

[unreal latch]

Yeah like this isn’t thought out lmao. It’s why you usually def reduce bosses so that scythe could shine

[gleaming marsh]

The balancing is mostly around damage output. Scythe has near identical accuract to either of the mentioned weapons + avernic.
The difference with the proposed effect is that it scales worse than scythe against higher defence (BoS is gonna be worse for the most part) but stab and crush is outperforming scythe given scythe's low crush and nonexistent stab.

[signal anvil]

Some side-effects you haven't thought of. With this offhand you would end up out-dpsing the lance at current dragon bosses. Dethrone the longer time to get SRA at the only boss it's BIS at and against all 1x1/2x2 mobs as well.

[polar zinc]

I think it's an interesting idea but I don't feel like it does what you're suggesting which is Scythe Dominance outside it's niche.

I would start by changing your proc chance to something lower between 10-20% chance, then the tick reduction to be based off mob size. If the mob is 1x1 when reduce by 2t, if it's 2x2 then by 1t, if it's 3x3+ then the effect wont do anything.

Might be a bit of overlap in the 2x2 category where we might see some decision making happening for which is better but I dont think there's anything wrong with that.

[gleaming marsh]

Yeah ngl i didn't do dh lance math, the focus is on making 1h weaps viable, but tbh if it's balanced better dh lance could possibly be inlcuded as well.

[signal anvil]

Have you done any math on the dps?

[gleaming marsh]

Ngl i worked on this while quite sleep deprived so my math might be really backwards, but i still wanted to propose an idea of an offhand that repurposes existing 1-handers instead of being a new weapon itself. The idea is there but the numbers are kinda spontanious lol

The attack speed buff is really hard to test on paper but i think your idea of scaling with size could be a good thing to throw in there as well.

Also alternarive ways to empower main weps could be like adding a weaker version of the kophesh proc or even adding the fang buff, but those would need completely different balancing.

[gleaming marsh]

I did, tho i might have taken a wrong turn at some point. My conclusion is that scythe, compared to blade of saeldor with avernic, deals about 40% more damage if they are used against the same target.
In the case of 100% hit rate the 50/50 1 to 2 tick reduction at 50% chance increases damage output by ~66% for a 4 tick weapon, but scales down drastically with hit chance, going head to head againsy scythe at ~85% chance to hit.
Math might be missing something but the general formula is there.

[signal anvil]

From what I'm seeing with this offhand the saeldor doesn't out-dps the scythe on low or high def slash bosses . And that's assuming the passive can proc on misses as well.

[gleaming marsh]

Shiiiiet yeah by that it sounds like my math is off then oof. Honestly tho BoS is not as important as making Mace and Rapier better choices in their designated fields but the numbers needs to be refined a good bit then.

[signal anvil]

You effectively get a 3.25t weapon instead of a 4t weapon.

[blazing swift]

I like the idea of introducing more actual decent dps options like eye/bp that compare more to megarares

though i think alot of ppl like megarares being busted

[signal anvil]

And assuming it's a chance of proccing on each hitsplat you would be able to 1t b2b dds specs

[gleaming marsh]

Wait... ( 2 tick /2 + 1 tick /2 ) / 2 ... wait you're right that's just -0.75 on average....

Also good catch on the DDS that's be an absolute nightmate LOL

[gleaming marsh]

Honestly you might be onto something here; this offhand could be less rare and a stepping stone while not being a mega rare, didn't fully consider that but that's a cool idea!

[blazing swift]

for a megarare i think this item with some balancing would be pretty fair just depends what you want to pitch it as. if its mrare i think it should allow something like dhl to be bis on olm for example over scy and other options actually be better like you said

[gleaming marsh]

I'm glad you like the idea! And yeah maybe setting dh lance aside was a mistake... it started with fang and i was worried it'd be mega busted and i just kinda brushed lance under the same rug without mathing.

Either way tho i think the dev team could do a muuuuch betterr job than me with this, but i will say that mega rare or not, something to repurpose the old still very rare weapons would be so much nicer than just upgrades to them (cause stat-powercreep) or even new weapons (like crush/stab versions of scythe).

[real mist]

I don't like the idea of giving standard weapons power creep and making a mega-rare stronger than another mega-rare because of it. (Would it even be stronger if the weapon itself isn't effected by the special attack?)

The weapons you mentioned should NOT compete with Scythe; let alone be stronger than it. The scenarios where you wouldn't use a Scythe are monsters smaller than 3x3 tiles (which is realistically where they could or should beat scythe).

[blazing swift]

i think ppl really underestimate scythe if u look at calcs its quite strong even in places u wouldint expect. did you know scy is better then bowfa at wardens? even at 400-450raid lvl? it was changed to be first mrare irons get because its also insane at chambers (high defense balance is kinda a scam esp with oathplate and also how cracked scythe is)

[gleaming marsh]

I'm not sure i quite follow. This proposed mega rare would be an offhand that is as rare as scythe, and helps making the other 1h weapons competetive, not necesarily stronger. Consider it a sidegrade.
And while we should absolutely not make new megarares stronger than existing ones, there is a near guarantee that there will eventually be a crush and stab alternative to Scythe either way, and this idea would be that alternative, plus bringing use to and repurposing existing weapons.

[real mist]

They're 5x5 tiles though, so...

[blazing swift]

right but should scy always be bis? scy>demonbane scy>crush scy>slash scy>dh weapon it feels like nearly everywhere practical scy gets a pass its only actual niche places where scy is bad imo

[gleaming marsh]

This is my sentiment as well. Scythe is the melee mega rare, but melee isn't just "melee", it's slash, crush and stab. Scythe should be BIS in slash only with other alternatives for stab/crush/bane imho.

[real mist]

True, but I'm just concerned that the passive on this might be too broken. If it's scaled down, then I'm fine with it; but I don't think anything should realistically compete with Scythe on such a level as this. The weapons themselves already seem powerful against low defense monsters (especially when you factor in gear, potions and piety), I don't think it's necessary to buff them even further.

Besides that, what if this brought weapons that have the same speed as Osmumten's Fang out of meta? That's assuming the strength and accuracy (most importantly) would even go that high.

[gleaming marsh]

Ah, now i see where you come from, and that is a valid concern.
Do note though that this proposed mega rare is, in essence, only a sidegrade that also requires the existing weapons. Think of it like another Scyte, just as rare, but it's not usable without these already top tier 1h weapons. The offhand is, in a way, "the weapon" in this scenario, and should be carefully balanced to not dethrone Scythe.

[frail raptor]

I feel like the only "problem" scythe has rn is that 2 of the 3 best crush weapons are slash weapons, scythe being one of them

[gleaming marsh]

To be entirely honesr i don't think fang should be as truly meta as it is due to not not-so-rare it is, but i do see the concern. If this would ever be considered there would ofcourse be a lot of testing and rebalancing to make sure it fits the intended purpose ofcourse, and given that i'm not too worried it would disrupt things too much.

[gleaming marsh]

Lowkey this is nearly the entire thing i consider a problem with scythe lol
Scythe should be BIS in slash and neutral big monsters IMO, that's like literally what it's designed for.
Getting another crush alternative and stab alternative feels kinds necessary though, cause the only reason scythe is used as crush is because it's a power vaccuum waiting to be filled, and scythe is just the top existing contender.

[blazing swift]

jagex gave scy this much of an inch on crush for scythe and its best crush wep in game

[real mist]

Alright, then I guess I'm ok with this. Also yeah, Fang shouldn't see so much use that it does right now, but the reason it does is because of its passive effect against high defense monsters coupled with its special attack. Both of these are powerful for a weapon that isn't a mega-rare; making it useful for many different bosses.

[hasty jewel]

Worth mentioning that the Avernic defender is already not that much of a significant upgrade so this suggestion basically will invalidate the Avernic even more.

[gleaming marsh]

Okay i'm back and took a thinker and i realized why my math was off; For the balancing to make sense it needs to be 100% proc rate on successful hit, mixing in the 50% chance to proc was probably just me confusing the formula with previous itterarions.

[gleaming marsh]

Indeed so, fang could have been a lot more in line if it was rarer from the start, but at this point it remains a little outlier in the balance unfortunately.

[gleaming marsh]

Well, yes and no, the main idea for things like this would be that it's an upgrade to the Avernic Defender. Making sepparate drops that invalidate previous tiers is how we got here in the first place so upgrade-scape is where it's at.

[gleaming marsh]

This is exactly why i think it's so important to bring this up lol, Scythe being a crush weapon always kinda make me go hmmm and we really do need a real alternative.