#Update Enemy Attributes to Make More Thematic Sense

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inland quarry
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TLDR: if it seems like it's x, make it weak to x-bane gear, but implement specific enemy susceptibility to balance and preserve metas.

We've all been there at one point: "What do you mean salve amulet doesn't work at barrows??", or something equivalent. There's always some poor rational why it doesn't work ("They're wrights, clearly not undead!"), but we all know it's just about game balance. With recent updates to the "Demon" status giving it different effectiveness on different enemies (Duke having only 70% bonus damage, while Yama has 120%), why don't we apply the same levers to other attributes to allow thematic weaponry to be viable without being game breaking? Here are some examples:
-Skeletal Wyverns (undead)
-Barrows Brothers (undead)
-Ba-ba (undead)
-Vardorvis (undead / vampyric)
-Zulrah (draconic)

I believe this could be a good project for the summer sweep-up. Having intuitive enemy weaknesses is an important part of any game.

Edit: Had an additional section on slayer task thematics, but decided it's best to limit the scope of this post to the less controversial stuff.
Additionally, there are many monsters which thematically could fall under certain slayer tasks. These would be more controversial to balance as there is no precedent set for varying effectiveness from slayer helm boost; if you see an xp drop after a kill you immediately know the 15% damage buff is in effect. Perhaps a blanket -x% effectiveness could be applied to monsters within raids if meta shifts are a concern.
-Zebak + minions (Crocodiles)
-Ba-Ba + minions (Monkeys)
-Soteseg (Dark Beast)
-Pestilent Bloat (Zombie)
-Nylocas (Spiders)
-Vardorvis (zombie / vampyre)
-Revenants (currently all count as "ghosts", but could fall under their respective tasks too)
Additionally, I think wolves and dog tasks should be merged into one "hounds" task and include terror dogs and hellhounds.

mossy gate
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Raids monsters are generally designed to not be available for a slayer task, 1 thing is because it becomes a chore to have a slayer task and 2nd is because the bosses where designed around you not having a 15% bonus to dmg and accuracy, which is quite big. So that is very much intentional.

Vardorvis is actually a plant organism that has possed the body of the dead vardorvis.

inland quarry
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I understand the design choice around raids, which is why I suggested a decrease damage effectiveness, so that it would more-so be a passive way to get some thematic slayer xp than become meta to hunt specific tasks for raiding. I'm less interested in having the slayer task categories added than the general attributes I mentioned first anyway, because of their difficulty to balance.

A lot of pop-culture zombies arise from plant/fungus infections. Also, if you ask for advice from a slayer master after receiving a Vardorvis task, they describe him as an "undead vampyre".

winged tulip
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I'd argue balance is more important than thematics

inland quarry
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I'm suggesting we could have both if they use a effectiveness slider like they've implemented with demonbane.

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Make thematic gear viable, but still only competitive against lower tier weapons, not to disrupt any metas.

viral folio
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I think it would be ok to have random enemies get more weaknesses, but definitely no to any slayer tasks in raids (outside of shamans already)

inland quarry
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Understandable! Perhaps I underestimated the raid communities drive to min-max. I would never suggest raid slayer tasks or anything, but I didn't figure people in practice would feel a need to task hunt and bring a slayer helm to marginally speed up one room, outside of speed-runners perhaps.

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I would personally be happy if you got the xp drop but not the slayer helm damage boost, but that would likely create confusion.

vestal stratus
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Salve on barrows sounds fine

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And skele wyverns

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I do think there is a lore reason on the wyverns though

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Hounds/dogs all merged into one is fine

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Definitely none of the raids on slayer task or vardorvis

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To be clear though bloat as a zombie wouldn’t change anything because salve is better anyway

vestal stratus
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Revenants should also get the drop rate boost for weapons on Ghosts slayer tasks (especially since it still gives XP)

viral folio
sharp flower
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the lore reason is that they're re-animated bones

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whats funny is that tarn's diary conflicts with that, and implies they are undead

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overall it's just kinda weird

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confusing lore just to justify not being able to use a salve amulet against them

ivory knot
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Zulra's not a dragon though

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That's a fuckin' snake

ocean token
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Vampyres can't cross the river Salve. But for some reason, the Salve amulet doesn't work on them. Make that make sense.

mossy gate
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2 different things named after the same thing?

ocean token
mossy gate
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The river salve is not made out of the salve shards?
"The river was blessed by the seven priestly warriors of the Fourth Age, some legends claim it was blessed by Saradomin himself, making it a holy barrier between the two kingdoms which, according to legend, will not allow any evil from Morytania to cross its banks. This however has somehow been broken as discovered in the Darkness of Hallowvale quest."

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The Crystal Outcrops have some of the salves blessing absorbed into them, but they are not the salve river

inland quarry
white topazBOT
low thunder
loud steppe
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I think there's a pretty simple raid specific mechanic fix of "immune to slayer helm boost"

mossy gate
rich root
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^ which is quite tedious to permanently keep a shaman task for i understand the concept but slayer monsters should be outside of raids only

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Not fully against the salve monsters within raids though like cox already has skeleton mystics

mossy gate
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Thats a permanent choice if you want to bring it in, not something like a task

loud steppe
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ack, NVM reread it & they give lots of raid specific slayer task examples which are bad

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@inland quarry IMO you should edit your first post to remove the examples of raid monsters as fitting in slayer tasks

inland quarry
vestal stratus
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Pretty sure Mystics also do but salve is better

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Yep, according to wiki

loud steppe
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Also on the bright side for the slayer batching stuff.. summer sweep up part 2 is supposed to have some slayer changes

inland quarry
# vestal stratus Pretty sure Mystics also do but salve is better

I wasn't trying to suggest we should be task hunting for the 15% boost on raid monsters. I just think if you have a dark beast task and you kill Soteseg (a dark beast) you should get xp and -1 off your task. There could be a world where you get those things but not 15% damage + accuracy from the slayer helm.

inland quarry
elder flower
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but yeah, it's honestly bizarre that zulrah still isn't affected at this point

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DHW should smack zulrah

placid atlas
hoary wharf
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i like most of these but after oathplate vard really does not need any more weaknesses, fights can already be sub 1 minute with a halberd as is

inland quarry
inland quarry
# hoary wharf i like most of these but after oathplate vard really does not need any more weak...

Ideally I was thinking the "weakness" % could be applied in a way that salve is worse than rancor, but better than fury or something. Not sure if blisterwood flail would be better than current weapons as is, but still would be best to only give Vard partial vampyre weakness. Don't want the stronger anti-vampyre weapons we'll likely be getting next year to eclipse current metas, just add a viable alternative.

elder flower
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tbf though vard isn't a vampyre, not anymore

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that one specifically has a very valid reason to not apply

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he's a fungus so he should actually have a fire weakness

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not that it would change any meta, but it would be consistent to give him a fire weakness imo

ivory knot
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I don't think blisterwood flail actually grants any bonuses against vampires

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It's just the only weapon that bypasses their damage resistances

ivory knot
elder flower
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25% damage and 5% accuracy

ivory knot
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Oh huh

elder flower
ivory knot
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That's fair

elder flower
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even then though

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he has 215 magic and 580 magic def

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you aren't going to mage vardorvis

ivory knot
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True

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At that point there's no real point to giving him a fire weakness

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It'd just mislead people skimming the wiki

elder flower
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well, the reason to give him a fire weakness is so that it's consistent and predictable

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also if it were a general fire weakness for all strangled creatures (including vard), then I guess you could use them to kill the strangled in the quest

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if you really wanted to

elder flower
ivory knot
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Fair enough

elder flower
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just so that a player can look at an enemy and reasonably guess a weakness

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you know we might actually be getting more vardorvis lore very soon

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and strangler lore