#Soulflame Horn - Make it less useless

82 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

native sorrel
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This item is quickly approaching alch value because of how unfit it is in the majority of content.

It was designed to be a team-oriented special attack weapon that incentivizes and rewards strong coordination, with it being promoted with the punchline “Sotetseg won’t know what hit him!”

Ironically, because of how burdensome it is to coordinate using this buff, in addition to the special attack energy cost and other issues, it’s not used in Sotetseg at all. The only place it’s really being commonly used is for the first elder maul at Yama, which many people solo -leading to the next point:

Most content incentivizes solo-play as opposed to team-based play, and the Soulflame horn has zero use in that type of content.

While it’s fine for some drops from content to be niche, this item just didn’t hit the mark as it was proposed. A few suggestions to better sit this weapon into the special attack landscape are:

  1. This one should just be changed immediately imo. It should work with the first hitsplat of dragon and burning claws, as polled. With the change, it’s no longer worth using with these weapons at all. This should be done at a minimum to at least give it some use outside of “Yama maul”

  2. (Optional) Work for solo outright or at the cost of additional spec energy

  3. (Optional) Give 100% increased accuracy to the other combat styles - Only giving the guaranteed hit to melee against NPCs.

  4. (Optional) Reduce the spec usage so that it’s a flat drain of 25% regardless of who many players you buff, up to 5 (including self)

To be clear, I don’t think having all of these changes go through should happen, or even any of them specifically outside of them working with claws as polled and later confirmed though communication, but changed in absence of. It just needs something

cosmic fjord
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I think this is an issue with existing content and not the item itself

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The devs have stated they are developing future content with a more co-op focus

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I think Yama and Titans have shown they can make some good group focused bossing

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I would hope they continue and that the Soulflame Horn finds more use in the future

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Players messing up the timing is something that will be fixed as we go on and use it more

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The very elite will be able to reach new breakpoints and I'm all for how this could affect new team based content

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Sailing or future PvP minigames

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I'm sure players will find a way to make use of the horn if we get a group Deadman Mode event

native sorrel
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The issue with its current implementation is that it’s only ever useful with dwh or elder maul - it’s never worth using with any other spec weapon.

so unless they plan to release content that has astronomical defense, that also allows its defense to be reduced by melee attacks, then there will be no future use for it.

Which happens to be contradictory to their previous stances of “we want to get away from the def reduction meta” as seen with def reduction caps in all major releases since tob essentially

drowsy trail
native sorrel
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So it needs to be useful with at least one other weapon. Dragon claws should’ve been the no brainer since that’s how it was polled and only ever changed last minute without any need to do so or discussion around it.

I think having it be a +100% accuracy for other combat styles and leaving the guaranteed hit to melee would be nice personally

native sorrel
cosmic yew
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Also while I do appreciate the fact they let you do a full elder maul, I wish they stopped putting defense drain caps

drowsy trail
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No problem, I'll take care of that one peepognomeblush

wanton robin
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I would prefer for the soulflame horn to not be classified as a weapon at all. It's a horn. Jagex just made it interact with your special attack meter to stop people from abusing it.

How about giving it a similar function as the imbued heart? Where you can use it without draining your special attack meter, but it has a cooldown timer?

cosmic fjord
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I'd rather be able to equip it

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I think it looks neat

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I almost wish it was more imposing to be entirely honest

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Unrelated but we should get more instruments that we can equip. I want to play ye olde rock band with the boys

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We have this and the Enchanted Lyre, can we get some Haunted Bongo Drums for the next instrument?

native sorrel
cosmic fjord
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I'd be worried about weird code interactions

wanton robin
drowsy trail
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Id say go for best of both worlds, can be equipped to spec or have a right click "activate" option to use it from the inventory.

hearty edge
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I'd love if you could use it solo for 50% spec (either equip spec or activate) to the gaurentee a maul or bgs spec hit

cosmic fjord
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I feel like if they ever made it work solo it would end up a 55% spec

keen cedar
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id be very happy with a 50% solo spec tbh, sounds balanced

dusk aspen
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The claw thing should be a no-brainer, thats literally how it was polled and communicated, whats with the last min unpolled changes 😦

cosmic fjord
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What, with how it only affects the first hit for multi hit specs?

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Did they say if that was intentional or not?

native sorrel
# cosmic fjord What, with how it only affects the first hit for multi hit specs?

Claws are unique in that the damage you roll is based on when you pass accuracy for the first time. Where the sooner you pass, the greater the minimum and maximum damage is

Instead of having the horn work for the first attempt at accuracy like it was polled to do, they made it so it only works on the second attempt.

This makes it so that the benefit of using horn with claws is even less than the benefit of using horn with scythe, which already isn’t worth doing

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Had they left it as polled, it would’ve been just good enough to be worth using at like 2 or 3 places

native sorrel
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Fixed a bug where the Dragon and Burning Claws were not guaranteeing their second hitsplat from the Soulflame Horn.

Aka, dragon claws and burning claws still aren’t worth using with horn at all smh.

In order to pass the second accuracy attempt, you have to also miss the first.

Meaning your net accuracy for the second roll is (acc) + ((1-acc) * acc)

If you’re base accuracy is 55%, then your net accuracy for the second roll is 80%, and at that point, the guarantee is far too costly is special attack usage for the little damage increase you get over passing the third attempt at accuracy which is 91% in the same scenario

glossy wave
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Yes it still sucks ass

proper garden
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Horn prob shouldnt be useable in inv. Assuming it ever gets buffed, horn from inv, like keris from inv, makes stuff alot easier. Horn spam mid donofly for example

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Horn is very lack luster right now and the price shows it. We need a streamer on our side or somethin

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People just dont think its a problem cuz everyone is just killing the new boss where it is used

dusk aspen
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Like literally who asked for thia

wanton robin
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The horn made Corporeal Beast much easier to kill solo or duo. You waste less time getting your hammer specs to land.

That's a special case though. Because you have unlimited spec energy anyway, thanks to your POH pool.

cosmic yew
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Would be nice if I could horn against corp on iron :(

upper snow
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and after using 25% spec energy on the horn, you only have 75 left

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if u can even use it solo?

wanton robin
upper snow
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gg

native sorrel
mossy plinth
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Personally I'm loving spamming this thing on randoms training, I noticed it works in singles, during combat, which is unseen anywhere else in terms of support methods

ionic granite
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I know it's not fully guaranteed hits in PvP but this singles-teaming ambush will work like 90% of the time

native sorrel
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Make horn work with claws as polled.

Ideally also either working in solos or with other combat styles (guaranteed hit only for melee on NPCs, mage and range only get the accuracy increase)

Otherwise its only niche will be content that arbitrarily has 500000 crush defense and a high defense level. Which goes exactly against the “def reduction meta” that Jagex has been trying to avoid since tob

Ty

fickle trench
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I'd like it to work with multi hit weapons like you've said.

Id also like it to give a damage buff of 5-10% because you're effectively losing the spec of 1 person which is huge dps loss as it is.

I'd also love it to be way better in bigger groups. Maybe at 100% spec the affected players can be unlimited or capped at 100 so it works in mass cox, mass nex and mass corp which are all mostly done for fun not unique and mostly trivial to kill anyway so it'll just create a new niche rather than become meta defining.

ruby plank
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Instead of a flat buff to damage, would it be better to instead raise the damage floor like fang does? Feels like there's more certainty in doing that given the weapon already guarantees a hit

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Making it work with other styles would be cool too, its just a lil bit clunky to use atm, the idea of it acting like a heart above sounds very cool

native sorrel
# fickle trench I'd like it to work with multi hit weapons like you've said. Id also like it t...

Working with claws isn’t necessarily the same as working with multi hit weapons, since they have a unique damage formula.

It’s not 4 independent accuracy rolls you get, it’s up to 4 chances at accuracy where your damage range varies based on when you passed your check (the earlier, the more expected damage).

They adjusted horn so that it only works with the second attempt at accuracy meaning in order to benefit from it:

  1. You have to fail the first attempt and
  2. You have to also have failed the second attempt

In an instance where your base accuracy is 55%, your net accuracy (chance to land a successful attack in the first two rolls) for the 2nd hit is 80%. Meaning you have a 1/5 chance roughly that the horn even did anything. In cases where your base accuracy is higher, this of course decreases proportionally

And the damage delta between passing the third check and passing the second check is so minor, that this change effectively makes horn never worth using with claws at all

Cool idea of increasing the max players buffed when consuming 100% spec though uwu

native sorrel
native sorrel
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Summer sweep up 2026

native sorrel
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It’s not too late COPIUM

keen cedar
glad dirge
gaunt gazelle
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If it helps, jagex removed some of its use, so now when they finally buff it, its a bigger % buff on it

night blade
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<5m btw

native sorrel
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69 days since horn was released and unnecessarily rug pulled from working with claws as intended. And also surge pot resetting on cox deaths but not ticking down between tob rooms (also an unnecessary change that is only a net negative).

Ironic because both changes blow & were unpolled/not discussed until release

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But on a serious note - surge pot ticking down between rooms would also benefit horn in that it’d actually be usable at Sotetseg (where it was literally marketed to be good at and currently isn’t).

It also, in its current form, punishes good teams in the sense that you are locked out of using it during nylo, sote, and Xarp, because if you do, you won’t be able to use it on p1 which is where you most want to use it at. Both in moneys and in speeds

native sorrel
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it’s never too late

glad dirge
brisk delta
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Besides sailing, not sure what else pvm wise would be coming out this year that would be impactful to current metas. Changing the horn to properly work with claws, as initially pitched, would be a good change and emphasize more team coordination

native sorrel
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It’s never too late to have Soulflame horn with with claws as indented in all communication leading up to the release of Yama, but then quietly pulled behind the scenes on release rendering the combo completely useless (down from extremely niche)

Horn is supposed to reward coordination in teams. There’s no meaningful coordination involved with using it at the start of a fight to drop a dwh or elder maul - which is the only use case for the horn unless some new melee spec weapon is released that happens to be worthwhile

native sorrel
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Winter summit announcementBegging

teal warren
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1: eh, this was mostly as a balancing factor for abyssal dagger. Dagger just needs reworked, as the dragon dagger is just a better spec weapon 90% of the time
2: no.
3: no, why?
4: I'm actually partial to this, but it should be 25% at base, then 15% per additional player. You're punished for using this with a group, and this change would at least make it more thematic as a team buff item

native sorrel
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Not even in the slightest

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In fact, it works with abyssal dagger in a similar way to how it was originally intended to work with claws

wicked ore
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This is basically changing claws to always deal 100-200% max hit instead of guaranteed 75-175% max hit with a lesser chance of the higher max right?

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Curious what the use case is thonk

native sorrel
# wicked ore This is basically changing claws to always deal 100-200% max hit instead of guar...

At its core, yeah.

As a baseline, it has just enough effective damage value increase on average to be worthwhile on moderate to high def targets

The main use case I think it’d be fun for is tob, specifically verzik p2, because it involves using specific p1 rotations, dc splits, and spec coordination to pull off and has reasonably measurable benefit.

Though it’d gain a similar use case at toa, as an alternative to zcb, as well as nex

For context: horn increases the avg scy hit on p2 by ~8.2 damage. As polled, it increased d claws by -9.1. As adjusted, claws by around 6.4

The eff +8.2 is just shy of being worthwhile, the +9.1 gets it just over that ledge. The +6.4 makes it never worth using

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Also it working with only the second attempt at accuracy is just awful, because that means you need to miss both your first and second attempt for it to provide value

So if your base accuracy is 60%, you’re using horn to gain ~7 damage only 16% of the time

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It’d genuinely be a benefit to not work at all and also not consume the spec