#Stackable clues - perspective from an ex-RS3 cluer

59 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

coarse cedar
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I know people instantly grab pitchforks and torches when they read "RS3", but please put them down until after you've heard me out.

Before making the switch to OSRS some 8 years ago, I was a big Clue scroll enjoyer on rs3.
I have had a hand in creating the biggest RS3 Clue scroll community, Clue Chasers, and used to be on the front page for Elite and Master clues hiscores over on the RS3 side.

The reason I bring this up, is because of a certain quote from the Stackable clues poll blog:

we don’t want to turn clues into a giant grind-fest where everyone’s stockpiling scrolls for an all-day clue binge because it's so far-removed from what Treasure Trails are supposed to be.
and
without undermining the core idea that clues should remain a fun, random diversion.

This is exactly the mindset which RS3 Clue Chasers have been battling for YEARS.
Only recently, maybe a year or 2 ago, developers started to finally see Clue scrolling as a viable playstyle for the game, rather than an insignificant D&D.

The same has to happen for OSRS.

The idea that Clues are supposed to be a distraction, and not a viable way to play the game for as much as you can, is incredibly outdated. While we don't quite have the rewardspace for Clues as our RS3 counterpart, making it possible (and many times less annoying) to gather and solve clues as a playstyle, absolutely needs to happen.
Paired with the incredible additions to the rewardspace, and trickles of QOL, the Clue community over on the RS3 side has THRIVED. It's truly amazing to see, it was incredibly fun playing the game like this, and it was even rewarding too. I still pop a bond every now and then to pop over there and just do clues for a week or 2 every few months.

Why can this not happen for OSRS? Must we really start this fight all over again?

Please, devs. I implore you to talk to your RS3 counterparts about Clue scrolls. Get their thoughts on this.
I know Mod Shogun, Mod Sponge and Mod Dorn have been instrumental in elevating Clues to their current amazing state.

To me, having done clues on both sides of the aisle a LOT, the solution to making Stackable clues work for EVERYONE, not JUST the casual cluer but also not JUST the diehard cluer, is fairly simple:

  • Increase the stackable cap, by a lot. 50 or maybe 100 would probably do the trick. Increasing caps through progression is fine, but the numbers do need to be sensible.
  • Make clues not lose progress when opening a new clue box. People with (heavily) restricted accounts would still be able to do clues, but wouldn't have to juggle steps they're able to do ad infinitum.
  • Add an in-game setting to stop receiving clue scroll entirely. This would be for the players that do not wish to engage in clues at all, so they would not get annoyed at the never-ending stream of clue drops.

With these 3 steps, you can make stackable clues work for every type of player, and make juggling a thing of the past.
The diehard cluers can still do a great amount of clues in 1 go, without having to juggle.
Unique/restricted accounts can still do clues, though they will have to gather a great amount to find steps they can do.
Casual cluers can finish their slayer task without leaving or juggling their clues, and solve their 1-3 clue scrolls when their task is done if they wish to do so.
People that do not wish to do clues do not get annoyed at clue drops, and can even clear some space in their bank if they are currently holding each tier of clue to not receive them as drops.

And as an added bonus: people that wish to become diehard cluers but they do not have the time to do so because of work, can afk gather clues during their workday, and solve them when they have time to actively play. This kind of playstyle is what made clues so amazing in RS3.

Please consider it.

void kayak
coarse cedar
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I forgot to mention (and ran out of space on original post):
This would also be amazing for people that like that stack big amounts of caskets.
Not having to stop opening to solve master clues, or juggling the master clues while opening, would be a huge improvement to QOL as well

Additionally, we could do away with the impling meta for buyable clues entirely. We would just need to increase good sources for clues a bit, especially medium clues.

tropic flume
coarse cedar
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and potentially look at other clue tiers too, though at least easy and hards seem to be in a decent spot already (maybe more multicombat jelly spots?)

tropic flume
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I don't really see the point in removing clues from the drop tables instead of making them untradeable. Why would people trade implings then? To gamble?

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Medium clues are pickpocketable from gnomes my guy

coarse cedar
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I forgot they added that. though 1/150 seems a bit yikes, would maybe half that (up for debate/balancing)

tropic flume
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It's not too bad, you could definitely hit the cap quickly there

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People said 10 clues/hr at max setup

coarse cedar
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ideally we'd get a high clue/hr method that's active (pickpocketing) and a lower clue/hr method that's afk (dagannoths/jogres cannoning/venny bow)

tropic flume
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Which I would believe based on my mid-80s thieving experience

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Seems reasonable, but going back to the implings why not just make them untrabeable and just let people farm them like ironmen at puro puro

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Or grab 'em as you see 'em (my preference)

coarse cedar
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Implings were tradeable long before clues were added to them, i figured just reverting that would work fine

tropic flume
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That makes me curious, were people really trading implings before clues then?

coarse cedar
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I don't feel too strongly about either option, though i fear it may put eclectic implings still at a top spot for meds

tropic flume
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I mean getting implings manually is pretty high-concentration imo

coarse cedar
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That's fair actually

tropic flume
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Or you can sporadically get them with less effort with the overworld implings

dusky mulch
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Every time i go to implings on my iron, i get a message from jagex a couple of days later, informing me that the people i have reported have been banned for botting.

I really dont like catching implings, but i think its too late to remove clues from imps at this point, it would be a major nerf to any mains who havent yet bought their way to greenlog medium cluess

tropic flume
coarse cedar
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it's never too late to revert a bad idea. While it does potentially widen the gap between current cluers and future cluers/cloggers, i don't believe that's a good reason to keep a bad feature in the game.
Not only is being able to straight-up buy clues against everything clues stand for (including the D&D notion that jagex is so in favour of, lol?), it also created a MASSIVE bot plague

tropic flume
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Also, I'm against buyable greenlogs ngl

coarse cedar
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That said, full disclosure, I'm currently stacking 3k medium caskets and bought 80k eclectics for that.
If they'd become untradeable, it wouldn't lose me money. If they'd remove clues from them, I'd stand to lose like 300m which is a sacrifice i'm willing to make :P

dusky mulch
coarse cedar
dusky mulch
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As it is now, Medium clues are the worst clues to grind for me, as you almost never get them from any content in the game, where you dont specificly go for them compared to the other clues
I think that should be upgraded, they have tried to do so, and i would guess when they introduce stackable clues, we can pickpocket 2x clues from thieving at that point, which buffs rates quite a bit

coarse cedar
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Dangit, wanted to post my clue counts to flex but I can't post pictures :(

dusky mulch
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yeh mine are ironman clues, so not quite the same as buying them, thats what im saying about buying clues, its such a big part of the game at this point, i find it hard to take that away. Though i wouldnt feel it one way or the other

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Need to be Steel Rank to post links yeh

coarse cedar
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The more i think about the implings situation, the more I believe jagex would probably not go for it as it's a tad out of scope.
They'd basically have to rebrand the stackable clues update as a whole Clue Overhaul, and probably put in more resources than they're willing to...

lusty socket
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Regarding your idea of turning off clue scrolls.

It already exist on the game.
There is an npc on lumbridge pub that does this

coarse cedar
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I see, I had no idea. Moving that to the settings interface would be nice, lol. I doubt I'm the only one that had no idea this existed

unique zinc
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I agree with #2 not losing progress. It's a super weird mechanic

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I think the main issue/ point of division here though is the 2-5 limit vs 20-100 limit

bleak tundra
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#3 is a non-issue imo, you can currently just keep 1 clue in bank to stop receiving another of same the tier.

unique zinc
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As a noob, I do appreciate the hard nudge to go do a clue scroll and progress my account to the point where I can do the required steps

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That is completely lost with a 50 clue limit

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I can just ignore clues for a long time at that point

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Also, it's just tooo much convenience and too OP a change to go from no stacking / 1h respawn juggling to a large clue stack

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Plenty of people would vote no

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Wait for the 2-5 stack to come into the game, then push for a bigger limit

coarse cedar
coarse cedar
# unique zinc Also, it's just tooo much convenience and too OP a change to go from no stacking...

granted, it's not many, but people are already doing these kinds of stacks through the 1hr juggling method.
I don't see a good reason why doing such stacks would require the most tedious shit ever, when we could just make the clues stackable for that many.

And for your first point needing that nudge to do your clues by hitting the limit... why do you need that? are you not actually interested in clues, and it's pure FOMO that's pushing you to do your clues?
Cuz at that point, just turn them off tbh. You're clearly not actually interested in doing clues

unique zinc
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FOMO is core to the OSRS experience

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Waiting so long between getting clues and doing a bunch of them is just a very different experience to current. Game design wise you also lose the connection between "I was doing X thing (slayer task or fishing or what have you) that gave me this clue that gave me this reward" if you can stack up a ton

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Which is gonna mess up like GP/h calcs somewhat, in addition to just a different spread of dopamine hits

undone owl
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Personally I believe it's worth maintaining Treasure Trails as a D&D.

Not against adding stuff to help gameplay like this - kinda what Jagex is doing with this 5 stack scrolls. But I think to disregard the D&D part as "insignificant" is detrimental.

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I do think Ekim's suggestion would be a better path for Treasure Trails than what Jagex suggested, though.

unreal saffron
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I disagree with the idea of allowing you to stack 50 or even 100 clue scrolls. As Jagex said in the blog, 5 is plenty for the non-tryhards. And they are still allowing you to have 5 clues at a time anyways for the vast majority of people.

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For the people who want to do insane amounts of clues, you can juggle if you want, or simply do the clues in a timely manner and you dont really need to juggle at all

coarse cedar
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As one of the "insane cluers" i was really hoping to do lots of clues without having to resort to juggling, as it is just an awful experience... but it is starting to seem I am part of a minority in this way of thinking unfortunately

umbral sonnet
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I don't agree with this philosophy, this line of thought essentially tries to make any content in the game have no resistance or effort attached to it, which in turn reduces the feel of doing something in the game.

I like clue scrolls as a diversion from regular gameplay, I like the fact that it offers a nice amount of motivation to level up and complete certain content in order to complete them.
I do also grind easy and mediums on occasion and currently have loads of caskets stacked up.
I don't mind the current clue juggling in the game as it allows you to reasonably grind the lower tier clues (easy and Medium) which are easy to obtain and juggle a large amount whenever you feel like doing them. The higher tier clues are obviously harder to obtain in bulk so it seems fine how it is. if you get multiple hard/elite during something like a slayer task you can just drop them and do them at the end of the task.

In my opinion if they are going to allow stackable clues it should be a low amount like 5 or less, or just keep it as it is.

silver minnow
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as a fellow clue scroller i have an even better solution, whenever you would receive a clue scroll you should simply receive the casket instead. this reduces the unnecessary and repetitive friction introduced by having to complete the same clue steps over and over. perhaps to balance it this could be unlocked after having done each clue tier 10 times or so, as at that point you already know all the clue steps. this would make the whole experience much smoother and more rewarding

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clue steps could still be left in as optional content for people who enjoy them but it would no longer be mandatory for people who dont want to engage in this antiquated gameplay