PvP on the aggressor's side should entail actual risk

[main marlin]

[[pk skull]]

[pulsar turtle]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Skull_(status)

[austere flicker]

I know what you're trying to imply but its not nearly as much of a risk on paper as it plays out

[scarlet pebble]

Add stronger attacks from boss monsters

you can pretty easily slaughter a pker with the standard damage

[austere flicker]

no, with the loot key mechanic PKers bring full setups

[scarlet pebble]

stack vet'ion lightning or position callisto near them and they'll likely be gone (or better yet, vene webs leaving them without run, easily letting you escape)

[main marlin]

they can balance loot keys by having only one place to open them, and put it deep in multi wildy

instant hotspot

[austere flicker]

or if you open it in safe area it send some back

but also idk if thats a good idea

feels like it could be a toxic mechanic

[signal raptor]

I feel like pvmers being "freebie" pinatas is the idea of them choosing to actively just use worse gear for the sake of risk mitigation, not for sake of combat power

There's nothing stopping pvmers from also just using decent tank gear and switches especially with the existence of looting bags to mitigate inventory clutter

[jovial crypt]

Every conversation around this ends with some form of "I'm bad at pvp and don't want to learn how to fight back"

[signal raptor]

They just choose to risk less and run away

[austere flicker]

if you see, its specifically a conversation about the inherent advantage a first attacker has and fighting back is extremely difficult

[signal raptor]

Most pvmers in pvp locations just don't wanna pvp

[austere flicker]

if i was proposing helping escape you just push for defensive options

[jovial crypt]

As someone who is mainly on the defensive side. It really isn't that bad unless you come in 30k gear

Something as simple as torag legs just boosts your survival rate dramatically

[signal raptor]

The only thing that I can think of as far as free advantage besides gear choice is dealing with bosses mid combat

Like if you do a wilderness boss and someone gets the jump on you while you're there

[jovial crypt]

The only thing I've really wanted changed is the parchment system so people can pvm in void and not risk 4-5m a death

That's perfect tribid pvm and fight back gear that's being held back by the stupid over 20 wilderness rule

[opaque echo]

cant be expecting people to have a brain can we

[jovial crypt]

That requires me to click the man with the skull

[signal raptor]

I'm not exactly a fan of pvpers crashing my parade in wildy bosses but it's like most of the time they just chose to skull up and risk like 10 times more than I do to exist in the wilderness anyway

[leaden burrow]

u can also bring anti pk weapons and venge which could potentially kill them tbh

[jovial crypt]

Even if you don't kill them , just hitting back and making them brew does the job

[odd zephyr]

so that means they're risking the full setup? lmao

like how is that not "actual risk"

like in the end this discussion is always just "pvp is in favor of the pkers when they're pking people who can't pvp for shit!!!" which is like, no fucking shit

jagex shouldn't balance pvp around people who can't play the game

because then it trivially follows that it becomes completely impossible to pk anyone who is activating more than 2 braincells

[swift phoenix]

i think its more along the lines of "pkers attacking people who are doing activities actively hindered by a pvp gear setup have a huge advantage"

[odd zephyr]

well they don't

because pkers can only protect 1 item and pvmers can protect 4

[swift phoenix]

in combat they have a huge advantage, and protecting 1 item vs 4 doesn't mean a ton when you have 28 inventory slots

[odd zephyr]

yes it does mean a ton lol

it means you have 4 free slots to take expensive antipk or defensive items you cant lose

[swift phoenix]

4 antipk items does not make for a fair fight against someone with a full pk setup

[odd zephyr]

if they're bringing a full pk setup they are risking a ton

so yeah if they're willing to risk a ton they will get a bigger edge

this is generally how the wilderness works

[swift phoenix]

it's kinda like saying bringing a gun to a knife fight is risking a ton because the gun is more expensive

[odd zephyr]

what do you think "risk" means

[leaden burrow]

they have to risk more to kill someone, u can bring more expensive shit to ko someone cause you arent skulled which means your output in dps could be much higher especially if you ags void waker them back while they might only have brought a void waker as their +1 while risking 40-50m

[swift phoenix]

i mean, i'm also an iron so the "costs" associated can be very different but that's less a wildy problem and more a gamemode thing

[odd zephyr]

yeah well that's just an iron issue

[swift phoenix]

and i'm not in favor of "turn of pking for irons"

but you can imagine that it's extremely annoying when someone can walk up with 50M in pker gear, tblock you, bind you, and kill you in <10 seconds without even being able to retaliate reasonably

like i think actual things that should be in place are like, items/techniques that counterbalance freezes/binds

but people have gotten FURIOUS about that in the past

like imo passives could be added to god blessings such that, for example, an ancient blessing would make you immune to freezes, but not the damage from a barrage, and not from normal bind spells, provided you are not skulled

[odd zephyr]

even with 50m in pker gear they can't instakill you if you have some skill and antipk gear

[swift phoenix]

4 pieces of antipk gear is not really much to counteract a pker with 50M in gear

[odd zephyr]

luckily for you your goal isnt to kill them but to escape

which is, you know, another advantage

[main marlin]

how often are you getting pked by someone risking 50m+

[swift phoenix]

arbitrary number

[swift phoenix]

teleblock + freezes do a great job of making that pointless

even with gear

[odd zephyr]

tell me on which spellbook ice barrage is and on which spellbook teleblock is

[swift phoenix]

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Entangle

not literally freezing cold

though, situationally, depending on where you are, a freeze alone is enough to fuck you over entirely

[odd zephyr]

idk what you're doing if you can't survive a single freeze tbh

[swift phoenix]

what if i told you most people freeze and then follow up with other attacks

[leaden burrow]

venge sacks+ a void waker pretty much scares off most pkers, only the really competent ones will stay and the bad ones will either run or die to a venge spec combo

[leaden burrow]

or freeze back and walk under if ur not on venge

i dont see a problem here

[austere flicker]

killing them would be a nice option to start creating disincentives

[swift phoenix]

step 0: get 96 mage and a voidwalker lmfao

[austere flicker]

to attacking someone in gear

[leaden burrow]

then take ancients and freeze them back step under and logout, most pkers arent sweaty enough to bring seeds

[swift phoenix]

easier said than done, especially if you're already dead by the time you actually hit

[austere flicker]

Something somewhat unrelated - but it'd be nice to have a "PVP" coffer for ironmen to drop coins on death over items that take significantly longer to grind without a GE

[swift phoenix]

i'd be amenable to deaths coffer being toggleable for wildy but i doubt pkers would be

[austere flicker]

i mean coins are coins?

[swift phoenix]

yeah but would it be the GE value? GE value +x%? who knows

[austere flicker]

the real money would be protected on death anyways

[swift phoenix]

iron + wilderness makes some things complicated bc irons have essentially no incentive to kill back

[austere flicker]

make their items disappear :))

[swift phoenix]

i'm also just not personally mean enough. i did DMM for cosmetics and did not have the heart to kill many people.

[leaden burrow]

how do yall die so quickly, do u not bring comfo eats and food? it takes 1 freeze to step under and run or one freeze, run behind a rock and logout

wattesigma

[swift phoenix]

depends on what i'm doing -- obviously i have food during pvm but for running bones there's 0 point to that

[leaden burrow]

well bones theres actually a 0 risk method

[swift phoenix]

like if i'm geared for pvm i have a much better chance of living but it's also basically never worth fighting back

[leaden burrow]

did you know theres a gravestone method for bones

[leaden burrow]

i venge and clawed a pker back and i got 11m from him

[swift phoenix]

step 0: have venge and claws lmfao

[leaden burrow]

it was pretty worth it

ive also anti a guy without venge

just from a dds

[swift phoenix]

like i'm a sweaty gamer (2077 total) and i do not have venge

[leaden burrow]

tbh most people will run

if u fight back

unless they are in like max gear

risking over 500m

[opaque echo]

it definitely is with veng + voidwaker

pkers who risk dont even attack pvmers in revs anymore because its not worth it to get stacked from 90hp in one tick by a guy risking 600k

[tribal veldt]

It’s more than enough if you have a functioning eyesight and mouse. Only way you get insta stacked out is if you’re daydreaming and or don’t know about something called overheads

I literally was doing vetion last night, saw 3 pkers who all just ran away because I brought anti gear

At revs you could camp a suffering, and bring venge, which is insane chip damage

Having 4 items is massive if you’re able to put together a good setup

[small elm]

You could just suggest that a pk skull makes all monsters aggro.

This would also make the skull cape and amulet of avarice have a use, allowing people to re-aggro without having to run out of range.

[jovial crypt]

would make sense if we weren’t already getting potions for this in varl part 2

[brittle fulcrum]

take brews and learn to double eat. if you pray the right prayers your enemy shouldnt be hitting you so hard you cant out eat them as eating is 3tick while spells are 5tick and both melee and range are 3-5 tick and they dont hit everytime but you do heal everytime you eat.

i think a better direction would be to focus on getting more out of bringing more risk for pvmer rather than pker which are in a good spot. averice is a nice item. need more of those to increase gp/h so the risk is worth it. maybe wildy ring or boots? wildy weps are amazing but only 1 item isnt risk since you always keep 3.

[crystal bay]

give me a senario where a pvmer doesnt have the tools to survive in a 1v1.
even a 1v2...

cuz your post sounds like a skill issue all the way.