Poll 83 - Early/Midgame QoL

[ashen sparrow]

Hey everyone! As we crack on with poll 82, we need to start considering poll 83 and its contents. As part of this we would like to look at early to midgame QoL, pain points, frustrations and issues that hinder a newer players progression and enjoyment of the game.

Please bare in mind that QoL things are generally on the smaller side of suggestions that we can have a reasonable turn around time post polling.

So, if you have some friends that are somewhat new to the game and have had some issues understanding parts of their early journey, please link them and have them reply also 🙂

If you have any suggestions youve already posted, please link them or repost in this one 🙂

[low harbor]

I saw someone mention that the tutorial doesn’t do much. And honestly, there’s a lot of new features that have been added after tutorial island was created.

For example, there’s nothing letting new players know about minigame teleports (I think cw is the only F2P one).

There’s nothing about trading or following or other general interaction with other players. I can’t count how many times I’ve had to explain how to follow to a new player.

Just minor things like that. Maybe a randomized “did you know” thing upon login that can be disabled which shows up like a news post?

Idk, I just think something to give newer players a little more knowledge that many of us veterans take for granted would go a long way.

[azure vale]

For a f2p though minigame teleport only gets you to pvp stuff which is not something you want to push new players to.
The tooltip like did you knows would be a decent thing. Personally would suggest they be an ordered list that then ether repeats or cancels when it reaches the end. (could even make it so it has next and back buttons so if they want tot read them all at once they can).

Maybe make two lists. One that only covers f2p stuff and another one that covers members things or things that are more important to members (like minigame tele)

Have the member list go after the f2p one if they have membered up.

[flint sail]

Increase agility & runecrafting exp per hour

[crystal summit]

When's the late to end game QoL poll 🤨 seems like lots of early/mid content lately

[red pike]

I saw it suggest somewhere else but right now the only way to actually find out monsters stats is Monster Examine which is pretty tedious to use when you're a newer account. Obviously you can always check the wiki but for a new or mobile player that can be tedious to do. A standard spellbook monster examine could be nice.

[quartz quail]

I've played OSRS for many years, but since I play casually, I'm still somewhat in the early/mid game sections.

I'll put my irritations about the game here (and I'll try my best to keep it short):

1. Slayer: If you like Slayer Assignments, I'm sure you'll view Slayer as having tons of variety. But if you don't, like me, you'll probably see it as 1-dimensional. Because of that, it can feel a bit too much of a chore, or a bit too tedious. My recommendation for the future is to start considering other methods for training Slayer, and also analyse where Slayer Reward Points should really sit in the game: https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1268581897479655445

2. Hunter: Hunter kind of sucks in several areas (for example, it's not very useful). But one area it particularly sucks in is that it's difficult to get players into Hunter in the early game. One of the reasons why Birdhouses is so strong is it has a good trunk - it goes from 5 to 90. Compare this to Tracking (which has big gaps) and Snaring (which disappears after 19). Also note how there's not Hunter grounds in Misthalin & Asgarnia, which contributes to this. My recommendation would be to add at least one Tracking/Snaring Hunter grounds in these areas - Lumbridge Swamp/east of Crafting Guild/Musa Point would be good options. A Hunter tutor nearby would also be good.

3. Farming: A little difficult to get into Farming - a miniquest akin to Construction's "Daddy's Home" would be good. My recommendation would be to place such a miniquest around South Falador Farm, or Catherby.

4. Thieving: I'd like Stall Stealing to become more useful as a training method. As an example of how it's not great at the early levels: you unlock Vegetable stall at 2 Thieving, but can't do this until you reach Miscellania and Etceteria. Would be nice to see such a stall in Hosidius - and I think you could probably put more stalls around in more common cities in order to make Stall Stealing progression better.

5. Magic: Magic F2P gear is arguably lacking. The armour progression is not obvious, and jumps about. I'd recommend at least considering this idea: https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1264590611927793694 but also perhaps see if it's possible to make some new gear in the future? Maybe using Runecraft?

6. Barbarian Assault: In my opinion, the tutorial for this minigame is terrible. Yet it's almost necessary to do to get the Fighter torso? I recommend cleaning up the tutorial, and also to implement https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1245797944876208161

7. Aerial Fishing: Molch pearls have too low of a rate, making it unrealistic to get the items from it. Recommend increasing the rate: https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1233125303111516181

8. No F2P non-PvP minigames: The lack of an F2P non-PvP minigame means it's difficult for new players to enjoy "fun stuff" at the beginning of the game - they're "forced to much" to train their skills, which at the beginning of the game can feel quite lonely or not really "mmo-like". Recommend adding something like "Mini-Dungeoneering but not as a skill" to the game somehow.

Those are all the ones I can think of at the moment (might post more). Perhaps not everyone will agree with me, but I do think these would be good changes. #1 is a particular bugbear of mine, but I understand that some of these would be quite large changes, when Poll 83 might be looking for smaller ones. For that, I'd recommend #2, #3, and #4 (#5 might need a larger evaluation first; I'd expected #6 and #7 to be part of Poll 82; and #8 is quite large like #1 is).

[obsidian onyx]

A pretty small one for me but can we have it set so that when we left click birdhouses, it automatically loads seeds into the birdhouse instead of needing to use the seeds on the birdhouse?

[winged grove]

Oops I forgot I had herb seeds in my inventory, -10 snap seeds

[obsidian onyx]

Maybe another one is to just set the default herb collection speed to the double herb collecting speed that you get when you spam herb patches. I think this would be similar to how people used to spam click cooking fish in the gauntlet and now it auto 1 ticks

I've also seen quite a few new players in this discord get very confused about how to do farming. Farming is probably one of the more complicated skills to get into as a new player and I do recall having some confusions years back when I started too. Perhaps some kind of informative guide on that could help new players. I see this most when new players ask "how do I make gp?" and the standard response is "do herb runs and birdhouse runs". But most of them have level 1 farming/hunter and have zero clue how to do either.

Just throwing this here as its been mentioned a dozen times but can we have a way to turn the useless bonesack into something that can actually store bones?

[eager ledge]

Remove ge and force people to interact again

[peak tundra]

https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1224764532795117688

[limpid harness]

Necro Bump

[winged grove]

jmod: "Please bare in mind that QoL things are generally on the smaller side of suggestions that we can have a reasonable turn around time post polling."
players: I suggest we rework this entire skill so it's more newcomer friendly

[quartz quail]

😂 I do realise that some of my ideas put forward - especially the Slayer ones - might come across as "change everything".

But it's really more that, I think that skills are one of the primary interactions players have with the game. And there are some skills that have a few obvious weak points (such as Slayer, in my opinion).

Though for a QoL Poll 83, I wouldn't mind just small changes. I think my Hunter suggestion and Farming suggestion could be small enough, at least.

[tulip anvil]

one of the most common questions here is still people starting the game and having no idea what to actually do. we already have activity adviser and such but perhaps there could be a few members-only adventure paths for members skills?

also afaik marks of grace rate was not changed with the agility course rebalance, its probably long past time to fix canifis course giving stupid amounts of marks and falador course giving very little because so many new players decide to do canifis for 10 hours straight which is just objectively bad gameplay

[flint sail]

No one's doing agility as a new player lol, shitty content and shitty exp rates

[tulip anvil]

objectively wrong

[obsidian onyx]

Surprisingly, too many people have listen to the bad advice "get your graceful outfit asap" and then burned themself

[flint sail]

Agility is such a horrific skill but our mods insists on 20k exp per hour and 35k exp per hour ''because at some point you will run out of content''

[tulip anvil]

yeah and run energy rebalance could solve this eventually but i feel like making it so higher tier courses are just more rewarding in both marks and xp so ppl dont shoot themselves in the foot chasing a graceful outfit they dont really need

[flint sail]

Just buff agility exp by 100% so the players can actually get through it lol

still low exp rates

Running around in a circle for 20k exp per hour... Is that good content?

Horrific skill for a new player and those looking to max.

[tulip anvil]

Please bare in mind that QoL things are generally on the smaller side of suggestions that we can have a reasonable turn around time post polling.

[crystal summit]

Show fairy ring code on the map on mobile

[peak tundra]

I would say that’s a Mobile Suggestion but that’s actually not a thing in the Base client either, Mobile or not

[red pike]

Idk how easy it would be but making some grapple shortcuts only need grapple once would be a nice early to mid game qol
Grapples are few and far between and the few places you would use them aren't worth the inv space to carry grapple and once you get to later game you have teles that can just avoid most grapple spots

[fossil token]

The last time I played with someone completely new to OSRS they had 4 major issues with the game. Most of these do not fit the bill for small QoL feature as described in the initial post, but if youre looking into new player experience, this feedback may be valuable anyway;

1. Walking places in OSRS being way too slow. Running is fine, but having to wait for run to recharge for so long was rough. At least this topic is already being looked at, but I did want to note how imperative fixing run energy is to the new player experience.

2. Unresponsiveness of the character. The new player found it weird that their character would continue running for a while before changing direction. Part of this is due to the tick system we have in OSRS (which I as an experienced OSRS player would definitely not change), but part of this also stems from the fact that your character is lagging behind the true tile your on by quite a bit. Smoothing over the animation to be closer to the true tile could improve the new player experience. This is probably not also a small QoL feature however.

3. Lack of direction. The player found it fun to explore random skills and areas for a little bit, and got every F2p skill to somewhere around 10-20. Then the player decided they wanted to bake a chocolate cake. They trained up their cooking to 50 using varied cooking techniques, and their fishing went up with it a bit to gather some of the supplies. When they baked the chocolate cake. the main feeling they had was: 'now what?' They could think to do of a lot of different things, but they felt as though they didnt have a good reason to do any of them. This was their exit point, and they stopped playing here. Adding to the new player guide/adventure paths, and making it suggest more activities and reasons to do them might be a great small QoL feature.

4. Combat being too slow at the early levels. This player played before hitting a 0 was changed to a 1, which is a great change that was made.

[tulip anvil]

oh yeah a map update to show most or even some of the stuff runelite map plugin shows would be awesome. good for new players and vets

[peak tundra]

Yeah in general all of the “Transportation” icons look identical on the base clients. Distinguish between them or make tooltip info more specific, like RuneLite does

[tulip anvil]

lagging behind true tile is basically impossible to fix afaik. it would require predicting the next position of the player which would make things even more confusing when it predicts wrong (cause its basically impossible to predict in osrs since theres no momentum or physics like you have in shooter games)

[red pike]

Speaking of fairy rings it would be nice if we could right click examine them to find out their code

[tulip anvil]

i guess they could make it so the running animation on the client starts playing immediately when you click (before you've actually moved on the server) but that could be even more confusing

[red pike]

I remember spending like 5 mins trying to figure out the code to the one in varla when it first released

[old dock]

I think the animation for those first 2 or 3 ticks needs to move ur character faster because that's where it seems u lose distance, but if you move 2 tiles at a time it might look weird compared to what we're used to

[tulip anvil]

speeding up the animation is another option yeah.

would be interesting to see a comparison of that

[old dock]

When u run long distance u stay that same 2-3 tiles behind true tile so it's not like it doesn't keep up later. Sounds like an easy fix but I bet it really isn't lol

[eager ledge]

Agility exp isn’t in a bad place, you can quest early levels, start getting decent rates from 52 if you want to have risk. High risk high reward.

[eager ledge]

1. Solutions exist, if people are too lazy to get the solutions they should have to deal with the consequences.

2. Fair point, at the very least port the true tile indicator from the plugin into the maingame settings

3. Osrs is supposed to be a sandbox game where you craft your own adventure. There’s plenty you can do at any stage of the game

4. I don’t really see a solution to this that doesn’t damage the game, there’s options out there to quest early game stats… maybe a small demo quest in the tutorial and small reward lamp to show the player the value of questing?

[flint sail]

I guess I’m wrong then, 20k exp per hour for running around in a circle doing the same shit over and over and over again without any change is such a great experience and good content.

[eager ledge]

You right, why have to work for anything… give us 1m exp/h for all skills

[flint sail]

Pretty big gap between 20k and 1 million exp per hour sir

[eager ledge]

20k exp/h at level 30 is very competitive with a lot of other skills. You won’t get that in attack, str, def, slayer, hp, range, rc? (Maybe), wcing, etc

[flint sail]

Agility is tragic for a new player and so is runecrafting.

[eager ledge]

Agility is 5h for 52, then its 60k exp/h. It’s not bad at all

Runecrafting is chill af with gotr

[flint sail]

Combat skills and skilling is two completely different things. You can get 1mill exp per hour chinning. Lol?

[eager ledge]

Qol =/= doubling exp rates and making the game easier for everyone

[eager ledge]

You can chin at level 30? Lol?

Also, chinning costs 4m/h. Not accessible to new players, plus needs mm1/mm2 completed, plus other reqs. Plus time taken to make 4m for a noob

[flint sail]

The intelligence

[eager ledge]

Yes, the intelligence. Think about what you type instead of embarrassing yourself over and over.

[flint sail]

Can’t believe you are actually comparing 20k/h agility against combat skills that scale exponentially with level.

[eager ledge]

Agility scales exponentially with level

52 the exp rate triples

Then doubles again later with hallowed

And you profit 2-3m/h

Agility and rc are already easier than they’ve ever been

And you’re still struggling 🥴

[flint sail]

I don’t care dude, let the new players suffer while they run around in a circle for 20k exp per hour. 😂

[eager ledge]

Agreed. Let them work for something and be rewarded with serotonin instead of being spawned with base 99s

[flint sail]

Let them burnout and find another game

[eager ledge]

Or train one of the other 22 skills

Or quest

Or pvm

[crystal summit]

Agility XP per hour isn't the problem. It's that when I spend hours on a skill it better do something for me which. Rn it's basically useless

[eager ledge]

There’s 2500h of content minimum in this game

If someone locks themselves to agility, they’re doing it for a reason.

And they’ve decided the reward is worth that reason.

[eager ledge]

Agreed, though i’m not a fan of the run changes. Agility should have more of an impact on depletion rate but graceful nerf is unwarranted

[flint sail]

Bro, open your eyes and look at it from another angle. This is about making it more bearable for a new player. Agility is a tragic skill, especially for a new player.

[eager ledge]

It’s qol, not making the game objectively easier. There’s a distinct difference. The sooner you understand that the better. Agility has just been rebalanced, suggesting to double the exp rates is a waste of time because, quite frankly, jagex assessed the exp rates and rebalanced them as they saw fit.

[flint sail]

For runecrafting they might not even know what gotr is.

They might not even know what a minigame is

They don’t have 500 days of playtime like you

[peak tundra]

"They might not do quests" is a bold claim

[eager ledge]

One big agility qol i’d personally like to see: repoll adding mogs to hallowed

[peak tundra]

How are they supposed to find literally any activity if you don't draw an arrow on it

xd

[crystal summit]

They should do quest tho

[eager ledge]

Ok? Nor did i when i returned back to the game after a 6 year hiatus… but guess what? It took me all of two minutes of talking to people and i learned about it and went to try it

[peak tundra]

And believe it or not you can actually enjoy RC outside of GotR

And I think it always has been a good skill

XP rate =/= enjoyment

And out of all of the skills, agility and rc are probably the ones you can most ignore tbh

Buy staminas and buy runes, get minimums for quests (rc has very low reqs for quests)

[eager ledge]

And just because YOU don’t like agility, doesn’t mean noone likes agility. There’s people with 200m, i doubt they’re that masochistic that they did that whilst torturing themselves

[crystal summit]

If running laps isn't your thing then doing quest needs to be, again. Don't change the xp rates change how agility impacts the game. Aka buff tf out of it

[eager ledge]

Qol = small improvements that improve gameplay, not doubling exp rates to make the game easier and easier. It’s already pathetically easy compared to the old days.

[peak tundra]

I think they're already attempting to rework agility in meaningful ways with run energy. A complete skill rebalance isn't a QoL, I agree, especially when not universally agreed upon

[eager ledge]

And add mogs to hallowed loot, cheaper stams = more accessible to new players who don’t wish to interact with agility yet

[peak tundra]

Amylase*

https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1201652605277974588

[flint sail]

Great arguments! 😂 Leave it as it is, ignore it and fuck any new player right? Just because you endured leveling it so shall everyone else go through the torture of a skill. 😂

[eager ledge]

Not to mention it “failed” with 73.4% which is a pass under the new requirements

[peak tundra]

"Endured" shows that you don't understand the point we're trying to make

[flint sail]

I think we all have different arguments, 1 guy using people with 200m agility exp as examples, another one with some reason and me that simply want to give new players a bit more feeling of progression.

[eager ledge]

Ok, keep ignoring what was actually said and arrogantly dismissing the counter points because they don’t agree with you 👍🏾 judging from the response rate on your original comment, the majority of the community disagrees with you, but i’m sure you’re smarter than all of us combined, all-mighty Allex

[eager ledge]

Agility is one of the easiest skills to level as a new player and has recently been rebalanced as deemed appropriate. Next.

[tiny blade]

One thing that has already been mentioned before in other threads, but one thing that back in the day really helped me out as a F2P newbie was that the Lumbridge/Draynor achievement diary and ring were also F2P. And having those few energy recharges once per day was a blessing. Plus, getting F2P folks used to achievement diaries can help fresh P2P don't feel too overwhelmed with so much new stuff

[eager ledge]

Not opposed to this, may need some pointers in tut island to inform them they exist though?

[tiny blade]

And it wouldn't cost too much dev time, since the content is already done, minus the P2P requirements that would need to be adjusted or cut

[peak tundra]

Even the Easy diary requires Slayer so that wouldn't be feasible rn yeah

But I could get behind a limited form

[eager ledge]

Ah true

[tiny blade]

would be awesome too

[peak tundra]

Maybe all the easy+med f2p reqs for easy completion, and the hard+elite f2p reqs for med diary rewards?

Might be a bit extreme though actually

[eager ledge]

Would be difficult to manage if they got those reqs then went p2p, would it remove the item until they reobtained completion?

[peak tundra]

I don't think it's a problem if they made it just an alternative unlock given how significant the gaps in diary tier are

[eager ledge]

One thing i would like changed with that diary is ring rechargability, but i note it was a controversial suggestion that got mixed responses

Would definitely assist midgame slayer gameplay though

[crystal summit]

I wouldn't change it but then again that's why 2 of my friends quit after a hour of playing lol so idk, maybe buff Regen rate at least for level 1

[eager ledge]

Would just need to be balanced somehow

[flint sail]

Pretty sure it’s just a couple of people disagreeing here Mr. You don’t represent the community.
I understand that you don’t want new players to get the excitement of leveling up agility in a ok amount of time.

I however think the skill has too low exp rates per hour and is too boring as it stands right now. It offers barely any variety.

[eager ledge]

Lost cause. Goodbye sir 👍🏾

[flint sail]

Must be hard for you that someone disagrees with you

[eager ledge]

Not at all, happens regularly. I’m very anti-GE and anti-sailing. I just don’t wish to waste my time with someone that doesn’t understand the difference between subjective and objective even after it’s been explained to them in the simplest terms possible.

[peak tundra]

I could say the same to you

[peak tundra]

.

[eager ledge]

There’s a distinct difference between “it is boring” and “i find it boring” you talk as though you are the community and it is objectively boring, but as i pointed out previously, that is YOUR opinion and there and many people in the community who enjoy agility. Especially after hallowed and the recent rebalancing to wildy agil, brimhaven agil etc.

There’s a lot more variety than there used to be and it’s far more rewarding than it used to be

More shortcuts than ever, faster shortcuts, more quest exp rewards, more training methods with more loot and better exp rates

Agility is in a very balanced place right now. It actually offers the best gp/h from any skilling method from what i know

[peak tundra]

You can get pretty close to 70 agi with just quest xp nowadays tbh

[eager ledge]

Yes, it’s a little slower to train at high levels… but you don’t realistically need above about 70 to do anything in this game.

[peak tundra]

And diaries

[eager ledge]

Exactly, think there’s a total of like 450k quest exp rewards?

[crystal summit]

Buff drain rates across the board 1-99. No one would complain

[peak tundra]

Already planned

Though I don't think they ever changed the blog post after they reworked the beta

[crystal summit]

Must not have tested it lol, it's a buff up to a certain weight then it's a nerf

[peak tundra]

They changed the numbers to where it was no worse than before even at max weight

[eager ledge]

Yeah honestly the beta changes were a big nerf for solo raids

[peak tundra]

They implemented it in the beta but never updated the blog

[eager ledge]

Interesting

They shoulda beta again

[crystal summit]

Oh and I didn't go back after 15 min into the beta launch

[eager ledge]

The one thing i hate about it is the graceful nerf

[peak tundra]

The beta was open for like 4 or 5 days after the changes

I think

[eager ledge]

Graceful is going to be such a dead item now

[flint sail]

They made quite a few changes to the drain rate after a few people noticed they nerfed it hard for higher weights. In the last beta the drain rates was significantly reduced so looked like it was in a good spot

[eager ledge]

Cause you get it at like 70 agil, then at 71 you go hallowed

So whats point of 10% more marks or whatever it’s proposed use is

[peak tundra]

Low weight is going to directly tie to drain rate so it will be notable

[flint sail]

It’s been graceful here and graceful there for so long, also a very tedious grind for a new player so I’m glad they’re making it less impactful

[eager ledge]

Honestly i don’t see why a new player would need graceful? Very low chance a new player is an ironman, they just buy stams instead

My current account is the first time i’ve bothered with full graceful and it’s nice but i could easily live without it

And i’ve had 60+ accounts over the 20 years i’ve played

[crystal summit]

Alright let's rip on something other than agility like combat achievement rewards and how those are "acceptable" .TRASH, add more

[fiery drum]

that would imply it was ever that impactful

[peak tundra]

Not really an early-midgame focus I don't think. Also they originally weren't really intended to be very impactful, they're way more singificant than they were ever intended on release

I think early CA rewards are fine where they are

[flint sail]

Agreed, I don’t think I even started doing ca’s before i learned hmt

Difficult to add any significant rewards to the lower tiers that would make it worth it

They would just simply belong up the ladder

[fiery drum]

all the good stuff IS on the low tiers tho

[crystal summit]

If they were more worth people would do them earlier

[peak tundra]

The only exceptional “high-tier” reward is superior rate for cloggers and irons xd

And even that’s just elite

The thrall time and Mor Ul Rek teles are nice but you can ignore them and be fine

[crystal summit]

Okay fine I lied and think the easy med and hard are good but if those get buffed elite+ would too 😂

[crystal summit]

I stand behind this, stop worrying about the mid and early game there's been way to much focus on it lately. Where's the important qol

[eager ledge]

Wouldn’t mind seeing the void bonus pts boosted slightly more now than void is essentially useless outside of chinning

[flint sail]

Void is best in slot ranged gear for low defense targets

[peak tundra]

Void is only bis for chinning and ToB ranging currently

As far as useful uses go

[crystal summit]

Add another gm quest that allows us to use barrows gloves instead of void and still get set bonus

[peak tundra]

If you want to go range ammonite crabs then go ahead

[flint sail]

Void with blowpipe is insanely strong on any target with low defense

[eager ledge]

A void quest +1

[eager ledge]

But there’s better options for most things

[peak tundra]

Where exactly do you kill low-defense enemies off a slayer task other than ToB and chinning?

[flint sail]

Any npc 1x1 or 2x2 with low defence blowpipe with void usually beats anything 😁

[peak tundra]

So nowhere, got it

[crystal summit]

Exactly

[peak tundra]

Also [[Venator bow]]

[warm notch]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Venator_bow

[flint sail]

It’s lost knowledge these days, but it’s also the reason quiver doesn’t buff blowpipe because it’s far too strong combined with void.

[crystal summit]

Again, what are you killing with it?

[peak tundra]

Masori is a far bigger buff to blowpipe than void in 99.9% of places

[flint sail]

Not rly unfortunately

[peak tundra]

Give a single target that:
-Is not in ToB
-Has low defense
-Is not killed on a slayer task

-You actually want to ever kill

[flint sail]

The last one is difficult

[crystal summit]

Exactly, just because you can kill it faster doesn't mean you even want to in the first place

[peak tundra]

So by those I mean actual use cases for void with a blowpipe

[crystal summit]

Which renders it useless

[peak tundra]

Or void in general

[flint sail]

Well; It’s free & extremely powerful

[crystal summit]

For learner tob and chinning, anything I missed ?

[flint sail]

You can use it a lot of places mate, basically anywhere you range

[peak tundra]

I wouldn’t even say learner tob, almost always it’s better to just have learners in melee gear

But ranging on 0 def in tob, yes

[flint sail]

Is void still meta at the blue dragon?

Levi

[crystal summit]

Not sure, lemi go stand by the boat and watch what the bots where

[peak tundra]

Masori is better and void is pretty much only good at Vorkath with really high ranged and a dhcb

[flint sail]

Think they banned them

[peak tundra]

Otherwise even black d’hide beats it

[flint sail]

Highly doubt that, but void is free and can be a very powerful set. Think it’s in a good place actually and sometimes a bad place by being better than masori for specific end-game related encounters

There’s also mixed hide in the game now

[peak tundra]

Sample with 85 ranged (as I said, void does beat literal black d'hide at high ranged level)

Black d'hide wins and also has significantly higher defense than void

Now I will calc with max masori and max void

Ngl I was apparently mistaken but the defense bonuses on Masori are so significantly higher you'll spend more time eating -> lose dps with the void paper defense than you'll gain with a 1% dps increase

[flint juniper]

Sweet for them to come out and tell us what the next poll topic will be. Aside from just this thread, I'll try to post some individual suggestion threads that are applicable to early & mid game

[peak tundra]

The defense argument also applies for lower-level setups, and the lower level your ranged is the more significant accuracy from d'hide/non-void is for dps

[crystal summit]

Fr the j mods gonna get brain rot from reading this all 😂

[azure vale]

I am hoping C-roqs or another makes an abridged version for the others.

[still herald]

The current way that agiliy functions now leaves much to be desired in terms of variety when training the skill. I believe shifting agility between three distinct types of activities for early-midgame by given them a greater focus on the "movement" aspect of osrs.

This would be rooftops (reducing amount of clicks needed to finish a course but lower xp than current/overall), partially interactive which would incorporate player decisions and choices into changing elements of a course (being better xp overall for slightly more effort and thinking), and acivities that fall where hallowed sepulcher or potentially beyond to reward effort and possible player stragety and inginuity (value the skill as both integral for player progression and decently engaging content)

Overall, I believe less boxes to click and more obstacles to dodge or a way to take your xp into your own hands would be the best way to introduce and push forward agility.

This isn't QOL though

[flint sail]

Well said!

[eager ledge]

Whistle mounts and a food deposit in the POH, whistle withdraws directly from the food deposit stash? Kinda annoying having only 5 charges when it’s used for herb runs and rumours

And yes i know you can upgrade later on

Just feels like there should be a poh mount option like there is for other rechargeable teles

But without free unlimited charges

[dusk juniper]

It was mentioned earlier but I definitely agree some skills can seem a bit overwhelming to brand new players, and I think it's mainly farming and hunter. Both skills require a bunch of different items (different traps, tools, baits, seeds), with training methods and/or mechanics that are just bad/not worth doing (ex: smoking/baiting hunter traps).

There's so many different seeds to grow and hunter creatures to catch and they're scattered all across the world which leads to hunter and farming generally being neglected by new players until they get a guide on how to actually train the skills

[flint juniper]

Slayer is also trained by low level players but is sort of a "trap" to do so since it's so much more efficient with higher combat

[still herald]

In terms of slayer. The concept of variety and bouncing around from monster to monster sounds nice on paper but is muddled by the fact some monsters are subsequently easier, faster, and more profitable to kill while others aren't very appealing no matter what level you tackle them at.

The best thing for slayer "progression" is to effectively allow player to work towards obtaining their desired task through some type of "finish x amount of tasks from x monster" in order to put control in how a player is able to tackle their own gameplay choices. This would, however, need to scale accordingly and significantly reduced in terms of (maximum amount killable) for boss tasks since the goal wouldn't be to outright overrun the entire game with exclusively doing content on task for all bossess.

An example of such would be
(Complete a set of 2-3 tasks from steve in order to select your next task. These sets consiting of slayer monsters assignable from the slayer master with heavily reduced maximums in order to emphaize these aren't the "primary" tasks.

General monsters (such as dust devils, smoke devils, dark beasts, etc) will result in a general slayer task devoid of any motification. Bosses (General Graardor, K'ril, Zulrah, etc) will have significantly reduced amounts of bosses that can be killed (around up to 5 if not less).

Tzhaar Based Challenges (Fight Caves, Inferno) are exempt from this bossing restriction due to present limiting factors and potential to scale based on tier of combat achievements aquired.

TLDR: This is alot, give players a means to progress towards their desirable tasks and integrate it into the slayer skill itself. This assists newer players by raising their awareness of available tasks and helps them find out what they would like doing early and mid game players by giving them better opportunities to actively play into rewarding their choice to engage in variety with reaching their goals. Tasks for combat achievements would also help endgame

[feral cosmos]

im pretty sure the in game quest recommender is nice. Maybe lock slayer to lvl 1 like herblore til you do that lady in draynors slayer quest

[eager ledge]

Starting slayer level isn’t really the issue here, you can get like 60k exp/h at level 1 if you started with maxed combat stats. The problem is encouraging new players to get into slayer before advancing their combat stats

Realistically slayer shouldn’t be grinded until after atleast base 60/70s

[ashen sparrow]

I really like this did you know idea.
Thoughts on displaying something to players under 1200 total, every message would have some checks on it for example making sure someone who has 99 woodcutting doesnt get told something about the WCing guild as youd expect them to know about it.
Players themselves could make suggestions and generate the sentences involved too.

[dusk juniper]

forgot to mention, but I think the solution to this is a few more miniquests like Daddy's Home to tutorialize the skills for new players and make them less overwhelming

[ashen sparrow]

One of the things in our backlog to aid with skill information ot being readily available is to improve the skillguides, and provide something like what the HP skillguide has, a mini explanation guide as to what different things could be encountered and such.
Whilst it doesnt effectively teach the player, its a relative straightforward change and doesnt resolve the overall however adding some data and info into a place youd expect it to be is still an improvement 🙂

[old dock]

also the appropriate jumpstarts, like how daddy home rewards construction are pretty handy, similarly with gotr

[eager ledge]

Yes but please make it toggleable so those more experienced players with multiple accounts don’t have to deal with constant pop ups? Also be careful on where it activates, i imagine it’d be overwhelming to a newer player trying to pvm for the first time to have pop ups distracting them

[dusk juniper]

I imagine it would be something like, you log in for the first time for the day, and you get a tip in chat

it wouldnt be something where you actively get interrupted with a popup dialogue you have to close that says "Hey! Did you know that the best way to stay alive is to keep your hp above 0?"

[old dock]

it might be interesting to know at what total level or average level players lose interest in the game/grind if theres Data on that

[dusk juniper]

its almost certainly very early on at a low total level

i'm a pretty new player myself who started in f2p early last year with no mmo experience and I almost quit pretty early on due to run energy

[old dock]

fast tracking some of those early grinds could be a way to retain some of those players

tbh cant shake up the max speedrun meta too much

[dusk juniper]

i actually dont think many new people are quitting because they're stuck on a early grind or something

they're quitting because they don't know what to do

[old dock]

or realise how much time it takes to "do it"

[eager ledge]

Let’s face it, most newer players are f2p… and f2p isn’t exactly a fun experience

There should be some sort of introduction to what p2p offers without opening the floor to bot farms

[dusk juniper]

I think the biggest thing that makes new players quit is how the wiki is pretty much mandatory. They go in and expect to have clearer goals and for the game to tell them more about what to do and how to do it, and when it doesn't, they just get lost

[eager ledge]

Maybe even an explanation at the end of tutorial that f2p is an introduction to the game and then an ad of some of the more exciting p2p content?

[limpid harness]

new player on boarding is a bit awkward once you get out of Lumbridge and the early quests

[eager ledge]

Short 20-30s video of pvp wars, boss masses, raids, etc

[ashen sparrow]

I'm going through the posts in order, hence me not responding to any reply to my posts this morning yet.

However i will say take the bickering and such to DMs if you're doing to go down that path please.

The agility drain rate and such are generally being covered by the run energy beta we had, we are looking to make adjustments and run another beta when we're ready to do so. Run energy is going to take time and a fair amount of back and forth for it to be done right. That in itself is completely separate to poll 83, so id appreciate run energy discussions and such take place elsewhere off this thread.

[limpid harness]

ik at the end of OG RS2 leading into RS3 they had the NPC heroes that were supposed to be narrative hooks but never really went anywhere, could repurpose them in OSRS as early game mentors? Instead of teaching you specific skills they push you towards early quests that will let you experience the content you want

[dusk juniper]

no one's bickering here - and I just brought up my own personal experience due to Ekim's comment on what level players tend to lose interest nvm, i misread

[old dock]

i think its related to arguments much further up

[eager ledge]

I think he’s referring to me and the guy who wanted to double agility and rc exp earlier on

[dusk juniper]

ahhh gotcha

[limpid harness]

lol

okay but

[eager ledge]

He got defensive when i said early game agility rates are competitive with other skills

[limpid harness]

who's gonna say no to couble RC xp

like cmon

[eager ledge]

Haha

[old dock]

dont rehash

[dusk juniper]

I thought the "however" meant he was looking at the current convo lol

[eager ledge]

I mean 2-3 years ago you mighta got me to agree, but with gotr rc is so chill now

[limpid harness]

RC has always just felt clunky

most runes enter the game via boss drops these days I feel like

outside of the few that are spammed for leveling

[old dock]

rc was is fine in concept, just xp is too slow overall the conventional way

[dusk juniper]

actively playing gotr does not give enough xp for the effort/activity you put into it

[eager ledge]

And altar positions were chosen without much consideration

[limpid harness]

and GotR teaches you bad habits for actual rune crafting

[eager ledge]

Which is how we ended up with lava runes being meta from level 23

No exp scaling

🥴

[limpid harness]

I think RC as a whole could do with a minor overhaul

but idk if that's in scope for this poll

seems a bit of a larger fish to fry

[eager ledge]

If done correctly i’d support, though just a flat double is a hard nope from me

[old dock]

if all skills took the same amount of time / similar amount of effort then no one would hate rc agility and mining so much

[eager ledge]

Worth noting as well the colossal pouch will soon be usable at all levels which will make rc feel a lot nicer

[dusk juniper]

I would take less loot/runes from GotR if it meant it would get xp rates appropriate to the level of effort put into it

[dusk juniper]

meanwhile, me at 86 runecrafting and 1350 loot pulls without the abyssal needle 🥲

[eager ledge]

Eh, 30-40k exp/h at like level 25 as for a semi chill activity doesn’t feel too bad compared to all the banking and clicking and pouch filling associated with standard rc imo

But i’m open to slight adjustments

[eager ledge]

Oof 😭

[old dock]

i got mine around the exact same time, hope u get it soon. all post 99rc the worst grind trying to get an item to make the game easier butr go 4-5x dry

[eager ledge]

Ive had needle on 2 accs in last month both on around 150 pulls 🥴

Sorry boys

[dusk juniper]

you definitely dont get 30-40k an hour at 25 rc

[old dock]

all without a binding neck (i)

[dusk juniper]

i get a little bit over 50k an hour right now at 86 rc

very active the whole time, only thing i dont do is craft combo runes which idk if that's much of a xp diff

[old dock]

combos help

just semi annoying to upkeep necks between rounds

[eager ledge]

Help a lot with pulls too if you’re chasing needle

[old dock]

fr

[eager ledge]

Get like 2-3x the pulls per game

[ashen sparrow]

the messages only appear on login, you can restrict them from appearing too many times per day so world hopping doesnt play into that. Its not really a popup, its that yellow message you see on login after an update or when a poll is live. Its not particularly intrusive and has existed since forever.
A toggle im sure will be reviewed for its necessity, alot of games provide them to players regardless, however alot of games have loading screens where we dont. Entering the PoH would have been perfect for such messages but we vastly improved that system to where its relatively instant 😂

[old dock]

should be able to get 6 elemental and 4 cata most rounds

[dusk juniper]

i already get 5 elemental 5 cata most rounds

depending on rng sometimes 5 of one 4 of the other

but also sometimes I get 11 or 12 total energy so it averages out

[eager ledge]

Ah yep that sounds all good then

[eager ledge]

If doing combos you should be able to get 16-18 elemental points in a game

[dusk juniper]

well, it caps out

1320 elemental energy at most if using a yew abyssal lantern

and i'm using redwood so my cap is 1260

combos would just mean i would get more downtime because i'd hit the cap

[ashen sparrow]

prob not worth discussing existing content and xp rates/methods etc if theres so substance to an actually suggesiton regarding them Might be worth a seperate thread if it sits outside the realm of this one.

[dusk juniper]

yeah definitely off topic at this point

[ashen sparrow]

appreciate it 🙂

A fair amount of suggestions coming through are larger than QoL scope for this poll unfortunately, and i dont blame people, we've tried to explain what "QoL" is a number of times but the information just isnt really out there as people havnt read it.
For what OSRS uses as "QoL" it means more than Quality of life, for us its just a vague term which covers a number of things

I also have a twitter post to go through and have a peek at

[dusk juniper]

idk if this falls under QoL but a possible improvement for early slayer which I've seen suggested before is to increase the combat xp rates from doing early game slayer tasks. Like, add crabs as an option to low tier slayer masters so new players can kill sandcrabs for slayer for example. I imagine a flat X% xp buff to combat skills when doing slayer at early slayer masters would be good so the best way to train slayer early on isn't to just NOT train it at all, and wait til you're 70 or so combat before starting it

or alternatively, specific low tier monsters only assigned by early slayer masters could have an xp bonus applied to them in general

stuff with not very good drops like otherworldly beings, shadow warriors, etc

encourage players to train slayer early on

[old dock]

thinning out some of the bad tasks like metal drags locked to ds2 like chromatics are to ds1. they really suck to get mid game. not that the majority do metal drags anyway

[ashen sparrow]

Even if you buff a couple of low level tasks combat xp wise youre still not going to get anywhere near what youre hoping to achieve because its just wouldn't be that good. Also at which point you have to be careful to not make it feel like a requirement for new accounts either as otherwise they would be missing out.

You have to be weary of changing something because the experienced players know it isnt so useful vs newer players having the experience of finding such things and exploring the game.

Personally I dont think that slayer being sub optimal at lower level is as much of bad thing. Its not awful, its just not meta. a newer player isn't going to know/care about meta as much and find that slayer takes them to newer places or creatures they may not have seen yet, the exploration also becomes a factor for it.

[fossil token]

dont underestimate the ability of new players to optimize the fun out of the game

a new player can also google the efficient meta pathways, its more dependent on personality type whether or not they will do so than on how new to the game they are

[dusk juniper]

yeah you’re probably right on that, however I still think adding crabs as a possible task to the lower tier slayer masters (let’s say Vannaka, Mazchna, and Chaeldar) would be an improvement to early game slayer, and it really just makes sense- there’s so many crab varieties already, and there’s the stronger king crab variants that exist for some of them (sand crabs at least).

It would also serve as a natural way to guide players towards crabs ingame and let them discover that they’re a good early combat training method

[fossil token]

adding crabs to lower tier slayer master is a great suggestion +1

[dusk juniper]

I truly think it’s a genuinely great idea (I can’t take credit for it, I saw it on reddit awhile ago) so I hope it can be seriously considered

[ashen sparrow]

adding crabs to slayer sounds like a reasonable shout that suits a middle ground. might get a complaint from tureal skipping players.

[fossil token]

could add crabs only to mazchna and up

or could change the weights for turael, so that skippers have a similar experience

[dusk juniper]

would be best overall for Turael not to give them imo- not sure how much actual serious use Turael gets from new players

[fossil token]

could also add them only to spria, making her more the early game slayer master, and turael the skipper

spria and up then, just not to turael

[dusk juniper]

that’s a possibility since Spria already has a task Turael doesnt (sourhogs)

I would say only Vannaka, Mazchna, and Chaeldar should be able to assign crabs, but I’d be fine with Spria assigning them too

[fossil token]

spria requires a porcine of interest, which has a recommended combat level of 20. So players should easily be able to take on crabs at that point.

only issue is accessibility of crabs, as sand crabs require client of kourend
Ammonite crabs require bone voyage
swamp crabs require priest in peril and are a higher combat level
underwater crabs require recipe for disaster up to a point (probably unrealistic that people would choose these)
rock crabs are the only no requirement, low combat level crabs that fit i think, but they are pretty far out of the way for a new player.

Might be fun if spria directs a new player to relekka for the first time though, or suggest players to complete client of kourend

[eager ledge]

While i like the idea, i think just assigning “crabs” and letting player choose would be the best option

Yeah sand crabs require a quest, but i’d argue that quest is a lot easier to complete for a new player than crossing white wolf mountain

Also it’s x marks the spot for kourend i believe, not client of kourend

[low harbor]

Yeah something like that could work. I also like how someone put forward the idea of letting someone arrow through it if they desired, but they’d get a new one every day/login.

[deep lichen]

Could we get SBS to remember autocast? Currently if you wear your staff while doing it, the game forgets your autocast option (but does if you un-equip beforehand, then re-equip). Also making NPC Contact work identically to SBS would be a great change, so that it doesn't kill your pathing when you cast the spell.

[dull lion]

as far as i remember, there is no tutorial on game mechanics such as prayer flicking, tick-eating and so forth, i know this is not at basic level and that we do have bosses such as scurrius to provide the player room to improve on those areas, but what i mean is that there should be a display of some sorts that let the player understand what those mechanics are instead of having to rely on wiki reading for it, for example, in some areas we could have wooden signs with imagery artwork to let the players familiarize themselves with game mechanics (maybe at slayer dungeons, bosses or even at other areas suchs as GE in pvp worlds)

[crystal summit]

Add a "climb down to floor x" as a right click to stronghold of security after making it to the end

[ruby inlet]

Change autocast so that you arent force-changed to a melee style for a variety of currently annoying, unintuitive reasons (losing the level required to cast a spell, lacking the runes, swapping spellbooks etc).

Make it so that the only way to swap off autocast is to do it manually with the player clicking another style. If you try to autocast, but isn't able to (for the previously mentioned reasons), you should instead get a chatbox message akin to attemtping to range without arrows.

Here are some links to it having been proposed earlier with examples showing some of the unintuitive current behaviour:
https://x.com/TM19_OSRS/status/1775982336263254355?t=glAKdDj_Qj7Twzp3PDkFAw&s=19
(For this post in particular Mod Ash agreed it could use a QOL update)

https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/s/quyYUAhCPi

[crystal summit]

Ability to have prayer turn off automatically when you use a pool in poh, toggle option Incase you want it to stay on

[green island]

The tutorial island should not be changed. That's one of the worst things about RS3 is that they took out the classic tutorial island. Bad suggestion.

[flint juniper]

Pools / PoH upgrades in general and spellbook swap are not early game QoL improvements

[flint juniper]

Agree that overhauling the tutorial is a bad idea & it's hilarious how many iterations RS3 went through. OSRS tutorial is awesome cause it makes you feel unimportant & nooby

But I think there can be some tweaks. A few people have left walkthroughs/thoughts of going through it with new players. Like this one:
https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1267581904274853989

And then also some YouTubers like Flip who had never played before made whole series and frequently go "and back to being confused"

[exotic mango]

one suggestion from me - rethink the setting which makes your supplies drop in a pile instead of going to the grave being enabled by default. I've seen few players get frustrated over this mechanic, not knowing it's a setting. considering it's purpose is rather niche I think it'd make sense to have it first be disabled on new accounts

[flint juniper]

This goes for plenty of setting tbh. Like arrows going straight to your ammo slot by default

[exotic mango]

good point, that one being enabled by default could make for nicer first time experience

[flint juniper]

And the new vs old skill guides, where old is the default but interrupts actions. Tends to be that the "nostalgic" option stays as default but most in the know players swap to something different

[crystal summit]

Didn't mention a spell book ? But also it def is QoL for the option to have it turn off or not, it's not a major change and saves new players from forgetting and having their prayer half gone by the time they realize it's on still

[flint juniper]

Yeah someone else mentioned it earlier with NPC contact. I think @deep lichen

[ruby inlet]

Autocast is definetly early game though so why not clean up everything wrong with it in one swoop?

[flint sail]

So, when you start a fresh account you basically get nothing. You can cast a couple of spells, and shoot 25 arrows but that's mostly it.

What about a starter kit like the one you get in DMM? Something a new and fresh account can actually use and help them on their road for a few hours.

[crystal summit]

Not for irons, but mains sure

[red pike]

We already have adventure paths that reward you for doing very early game achivements

[crystal summit]

Never heard of that lol

[flint sail]

Ohh, i didn't know that! What's this?

[red pike]

[[Adventure_Paths]]

[warm notch]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Adventure_Paths

[crystal summit]

Alright so they exist but can already see they need a buff, seem underwhelming

[flint sail]

It kind of looks good actually, but curious to know if a new player follows the adventure path and claims the rewards each time they're eligible at the different npc's. Seems like such a hassle to run around everywhere to claim the different rewards that barely have any value.

Perhaps a tiny little buff to the starter kit for new accounts and a little more juicy rewards for following the path to make it mainstream for any new account.

[flint juniper]

You claim them all from the same adventurer Jon NPC in Lumbridge. I tried it on fresh start worlds

The rewards seemed really good actually. Just wandering around Lumbridge leveling up you can get a nice sword, some food, tools. The strength and magic ammy are possibly even OP rewards

[crystal summit]

The arrow/rune amounts just seem low to me, melee seems fine

[flint sail]

Yeh, it looks good. Haven't made a new account in a while so very limited knowledge about it outside of DMM/Leagues.

Still think the starter kit could use some more juice. they don't have ava's and runes will quickly be used up.

Another one would be prayer training, a new account isn't really introduced to this skill as it's extremely difficult to level in the early stages or the upkeep of your prayer points.

And it's essential for combat!

How about adding a regen effect to your prayer points if you've used a altar or something?

For like 15 minutes? just a wild idea

[red pike]

The prayer tutorial should really have a new player bury some bones to show new players how the skill is trained, I think right now the tutorial just tells you burying bones gives exp but actually doing it would help reinforce it for new players

[flint juniper]

Another possible tutorial change:

• rather than have the rats behind the fence when you range them, just have them behind some rocks which are awkward to walk through & the rats will likely get stuck on. This form of safe spotting looks a lot more like what you'll use in the rest of the game whereas "safe behind a fence" is pretty rare

[wintry dock]

Very minor thing and maybe med levels experience similar issues, but could we remove autoretaliate working on abyssal sire's spawns/scions and spinolyphs, so that they become similar to Nechryael's Death Spawns?

I don't think anyone uses autoretaliate intentionally at these places, but every now and then when I forgot to turn autoretaliate off after doing another afk task, I've been dragged into death when the sire/spinolyph adds drag me back.

Skill issue, I know.

[flint juniper]

One from watching Flip:

• while rune mysteries is the "intro to rune mysteries" quest, you don't actually craft any runes during it, and Aubry / Sedridor don't explain it much after. Whether part of the actual quest or in a small tutorial after, there should be a guided "take rune essence & find the air altar, craft some air runes" trip with maybe some extra Runecrafting XP reward

[flint sail]

I've noticed Zulrah & Vorkath has had their GP/Hour increased when the bots got banned which is amazing! I think Vorkath is in a good place for boss mechanics and have a smooth way to grind it where you can stay in the instance for about 5-7 kills.

Zulrah on the other hand is a very annoying encounter, long spawn time where you spam click the boss. difficult to swap gear or get use of your gear/switches ''in time''. Would love to see some changes to zulrah so that its less spam clicking on the boss and longer rotations for each style so that its worthwhile to bring range & mage gear. It needs a little smoother transitions, could also use some more consistency in the form of mage doing only mage attacks like the ranged phase. It's a early level boss. If not i'd say calculate the damage on impact so a player can pray against the ranged attack from the mage form.

Probably too big for this QOL tho, but worth mentioning as its one of the first bosses a player makes money at. They probably dont have dessert elite done for the altar or a altar in their house which makes it a bit too punishing.

[flint sail]

Teleporting out & in all the time and therefor creating a meta for altars between the fight is just... yeh......

[obsidian onyx]

With regards to zulrah, I think changing the rotation times isn’t necessary but it would be nice if the hit box can be improved and make it so that you can target zulrah as soon as it pops up. Right now, for a couple ticks right after rising again, clicking on zulrah doesn’t let you start attacking as there’s a delay

[winged grove]

That was driving me crazy just yesterday

[carmine verge]

Camdozaal fishing is really bad

Even for low levels

[obsidian onyx]

I know right? Too many times, I click too early and then I waste a third of a rotation standing there not attacking

[carmine verge]

Giant Mole is supposed to be for lower-leveled players, yet you need Falador Shield 3 to do it properly

Or spam thralls after KD

[flint sail]

Zulrah is just such a annoying fight, it would actually fit into this early/mid game QOL with just some ''smoothing fixes'' to the fight.

[winged grove]

Even worse is when I misclick the janky hitbox and end up walking through a venom cloud 🤬

[carmine verge]

A newer player might think "oh, I can Runecraft to obtain some runes" but the lower-level runes (elemental, mind, body) are never ever worth crafting.

[obsidian onyx]

This especially. Annoys the fk out of me.

[carmine verge]

So increasing the rune multiplier on low-level runes could maybe help there.

[obsidian onyx]

Just saying, those types of runes would have to be multipled by a ton for it to be worth runecrafting to specifically get them compared to buying from the ge (or from rune shops if you're an iron)

[carmine verge]

Even if buying them in shops is the meta, there's really no reason for it to be as comically bad as it is now.

[obsidian onyx]

Buying from shops for irons is the meta though

[carmine verge]

Also the proposed run energy rework would do more for early-game than any QoL, so I hope we see more on that soon.

[carmine verge]

Didn't they already get a buff recently, due to Turael assigning lower-quantities now?
Alternatively, they could be Spria exclusive.

(I am personally not a fan of the Turael Skipping buff so adding a slower task to offset it would be fine by me)

[wintry dock]

Yeah, Turael Skipping got a massive buff.

I'm not sure how good 10-30 crabs would be though.

since that's the normal range for turael tasks now

[flint juniper]

I think the "add crabs to slayer list" idea came from this post. Some of these other ideas could fit in scope for QoL too

Slayer point rebalance - possibly. Map icon for current slayer task? or "where is that?" dialogue seems quite possible too

And then also from there "shortcut to Vannaka from GE or Edgeville"

[wintry dock]

Make it like 16 weight on Vannaka. Vannaka should be looked into tbh.

314 weight and majority shit tasks.

[flint juniper]

Yeah the jump to Vannaka is kinda crazy. You go from like kill 50 zombies & hill giants to "kill 80 lesser demons, or blue dragons" really quickly. Which takes so much longer

[tiny blade]

Along those lines, maybe "the new-player exclusive" NPC at lumbridge could have a chat/right click option to "recommend activity" if he doesn't have one already, which he points the player towards some content they haven't interacted yet.

It could be an extension of the "did you know" system, since there's probably a limit to how many words can go into the login screen before it gets too cluttered, and the in-game NPC chat is better for longer texts.

And since new players struggle to learn how to follow/trade with other players, maybe he could have some sort of task/mini quest which teaches how to do those things, since the tutorial island doesn't cover them.

[carmine verge]

@ashen sparrow Some Hunter suggestions I posted a while ago on reddit:

⦿ Add desert heat protection to the Guild Hunter Outfit. Same as Prospector gear.
⦿ Make it possible to craft Larupia/Graahk/Kyatt hides into their respective clothing sets.
⦿ Let us fletch logs into untradeable stackable Hunter traps. These can be used to set up Deadfall/Pitfall traps without needing logs or knives. Higher-tier logs yield more traps, much like how arrow shafts work.

(The third points might be too big for QoL depending on how 🍝 the pitfall/deadfall trapping code is)

[tiny blade]

One vanity change that would be awesome would be if the player could combine the larupia/graahk/kyatt mask/hat with the 99 hunter hood, to go along with the biomes sets

[opaque fossil]

agility isn't 20k/hr, not even for low agility levels lol

even agility pyramid at like 50 agility is 21k and that's not specifically a method to train agility itself

[wet seal]

define midgame y'all

[winged grove]

There is no universal understanding of midgame

[eager ledge]

Upto 1750 total, bit of pvm experience but not smashing out solo 600s

[limpid harness]

I mean I would bring up all of the agility shortcuts in the other thread

https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1217465514335404152

Don't think this has been mentioned in the thread here

But more agility shortcuts would be nice at all levels of the game

[limpid harness]

Oh man, someone else mentioned it higher up and ik the jmods have mentioned it before with reworking monster examine but informing players early on about elemental weaknesses and how defenses work might be pretty important especially after the ranged damage type and elemental damage changes

[winged grove]

tru

[limpid harness]

idk if that needs to be on tutorial island but a mini quest early on to teach people that some enemies are weak to elemental spells would be super useful

just have one of the wizards at the Wizards Tower send you out to collect info on it

[clever girder]

Turn prayers off after deaths

[peak tundra]

I think the ideal solution would be to make right-click examine on monsters pull up the monster examine menu and just eliminate the spell entirely

Buy idk if that’s “QoL” and likely not a simple change

[eager ledge]

I personally would like the loot table and drop rates included in this UI, but i don’t know if that’s taking things a bit far?

[peak tundra]

Nah, I think clog does enough for covering if things have unique drops, but maybe the Slayer/misc pages could be made to tell where a drop comes from if you click on it

Maybe let the examine link to any applicable collection log items, but drop table/rates in entirety is a bit far

[trim oxide]

Quest cape and hard achievement diary reqs

[ashen sparrow]

For the purposes of this poll, i would consider targeting it somewhere around ~level 95 combat with atleast master quests and some basic PvM experience, alongside that with somewhere in the region of ~75 average skill level.

[flint sail]

Good to see you interacting with the community btw! Keep it up 👍🏻

Zulrah is one of the first money makers in the form of bossing for a new player and could use some minor tweaks to the encounter to remove the pain points and frustrations. Would like to see the boss changed a little so a player can stay in the instance similar to vorkath and do 5-7 kills per trip without leaving the instance.

When you start the fight against Zulrah you are not able to attack the boss immediately, but have to wait about 5 game ticks which is usually spent spam clicking the boss.

• Spawn zulrah immediately and make it so Zulrah doesnt aggro the player until the player does their first attack.

When Zulrah transitions into another form the player is still not able to attack the boss and end up spam clicking for about 3-4 game ticks and some times end up missclicking and running into toxic areas.

• Change it so you can attack Zulrah immediately after each phase.

After Zulrah dies, a player must leave the instance and re-enter to start a new encounter, this creates a teleport meta to desert altar (elite diary req) or house altar. Removes the enjoyment when you have to teleport all the time. Change it so you can start a new encounter without leaving the instance.

These are three smaller fixes that would improve the quality of the boss a lot and remove the biggest pain points. I do however have some additional ideas.

Zulrah's mage form does a random range attack which can cause a lot of damage, calculate the damage on impact and not on animation so the player can protect against it if they're fast enough. 😉

Balance out Zulrahs phases so that bringing both mage & range gear is worth the effort, all the switching for a mage phase with only 3 hits just doesnt feel like it's worth the effort. I think 5 hits is would be appropriate.

Goal: Would like to see that a player can do 5-7 kills in 1 trip before teleporting similar to Vorkath.

Cheers!

[quartz quail]

Another small QoL thing that's just a bit annoying: changing the Teleport to Pollnivneach Achievement Diary task to not require a Scroll of Redirection for all players https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1238057019538411593

[trim oxide]

Zulrah is already worth bringing both styles unless you're just looking to chill... multiple trips are also a thing already.

[trim oxide]

My main issue of run energy is already being looked at , the only thing I can suggest is taking a look at the mossy key / giant key system to fight Obor and Bryo.

These are the kind of bosses people combat 95 and below should be trying (alongside scurrius) , however unless you're going to the wilderness for decent drop rates or at the point where you can just cannon everything , the keys are way too slow per kc.

Maybe consider adding a way to do 1-3 'free' attempts a day to a diary reward

Not sure what a good answer to it is , but right now that content is balanced around high risk or late game resources

[exotic mango]

One thing which is perhaps not specific to just midgame, but worth mentioning anyway, is how painful the process of opening coconuts and filling vials with coconut milk is.

[trim oxide]

TIL you can open coconuts

[flint sail]

Daeyalt Essence, it's not afk enough and neither good enough for the effort. You only receive about 100 daeyalt essence per cycle, you easily miss out on a lot of essence simply because it's not afk enough.

Mining Enhancers: Allow the Celestial Ring to work if the ring is charged (Creates a wider purpose for stardust), Varrock Armour 4 & mining cape to apply their benefits when mining Daeyalt essence.

Reason: Players who have earned these unique items through their progression should be able to use their items for activities in the game.
(It's frustrating that you are not able to use this item here, there, and over there). Too many restrictions, players should be allowed to use the unique items they have obtained through player progression.

At last increase the timer per cycle so that a player can actually AFK mining daeyalt essence without losing out so much.

Robe of the Eye - Add an additional effect to the skilling set, including a bonus experience of 2.5%, similar to other skilling sets.

Would also like to see the abyssal lantern to be used outside of GotR, enhancing runes crafted or stopping your rune pouch from degrading or perhaps awarding a player with a NEW ITEM: Mystic Relic

How it works:

Drop Rate: The Mystic Relic should have a rare drop rate, similar to other rare items in the game (e.g., about 1/1000) when using daeyalt essence or 1/2000 when using pure essence at the ourania altar. This makes it a sought-after item without being too common or affecting any current "metas" in the skill.

Choice Mechanism: Upon receiving the Mystic Relic, players can choose between the experience boost or the loot reward, but not both. By keeping the rewards balanced, the Mystic Relic will add an exciting element to runecrafting at the Ourania Altar without disrupting the game's economy or progression systems.

To ensure the item is balanced and rewarding without being overpowered, I have come up with these suggestions:

Experience Reward:
1,000 Runecrafting Experience: This is a significant amount that would be appreciated by players, especially those looking to stack them for a juicy exp boost at some point.

Loot Reward:
Runes corresponding to 100,000 Gold Coins: This amount is enticing but not excessive. It provides a nice alternative to experience, especially for those looking to make some money while training or for ironmen in need of runes.

[stable sage]

i think all members skills should be made non members in a very limited capacity, to let new f2p players have a taste of what the extra skills bring to the table, with limits on the training methods, or doing what the tutorial island does and stopping xp at a certain level for the skills

[alpine rose]

I would like to see a buff to deyalt essence afk time i think that is fair. I think anything more is way to much. its not designed to be efficent just something u use to spend less time rcing

[stable sage]

i think allowing the celestial ring and varrock armor proc isnt too much to ask. i didnt personally have an issue with the timers though. id rather do that than active pre 77 rc methods

[flint sail]

I would love to see that player progression matters. Obtaining items that can't be used anywhere is frustrating. I don't want to check wiki 24 times a day to find out that i can't use the items i've spent countless of hours collecting.

[stable sage]

i also think the dry protection on abyssal lantern is a bit lacking, along with an awkward droprate versus the needle, which up until recently was onluly usable at 85 rc. i wouldve figured the lantern to be one of the first expected items to be recieved with how important it is to have one

[alpine rose]

Oh ye I would really like to see them make abyssal needle buyable or just reduce the rate of it

if their intent is now making it useful pre 85 rc

[stable sage]

1/300 is fine for the needle i think, youre still lilely to get it before you can use 3 pouches

[alpine rose]

as in giant pouch?

[stable sage]

yeah

before then, i mean

[alpine rose]

i think thats fair but idk i guess lantern is the same. I dont really like how rare/impactful they make them both now

[stable sage]

lantern is over twice as rare as the needle

approaching the cosmetic outfit dyes

i made it to 80 rc, got the pet, needle, both of the intricate pouch items, and still no lantern

[alpine rose]

ye its insanely rare with big impact. im not a fan of rng aspect of it most skill outfits/tools u can kinda work towards consistently

[stable sage]

and the price for the dry protection buy is insane

it could be fun to make the lantern an rng drop you could just buy with a flat number of pulls, for your first one

[alpine rose]

just my opinion on both. but 1 person having a big xp boost cuz of luck just seems not really fair imo. 1 person can use colossal pouch from like 50rc with good rng/lantern

[stable sage]

say like you save 50-100 energies, and talk to felix or w/e his name is, and you trade in your pulls for it. it might not pay for itself right away but it lets people either be lucky or be guaranteed one without too much hassle

[stable sage]

tbf with the colossal pouch, its being scaled to your level in that youll have the same number of essence as if you didnt get the needle

its just less clicks to fill/empty it

[alpine rose]

u do get to hold more essence in theory cuz u dont have to bring other pouches

[stable sage]

they reduced its capacity to account for that

[alpine rose]

and the qol is pretty big esp having that qol as early as possible

oh did they

[stable sage]

but it is nice to click less

i need sleep, will suggest more later

[opaque fossil]

Zulrah's mage form does a random range attack which can cause a lot of damage, calculate the damage on impact and not on animation so the player can protect against it if they're fast enough.
i would only agree with this if all of zulrah's attacks started doing chip damage

[flint sail]

Yeh, i don't see a issue with that. As long as it's consistent, but it might be necessary to reduce the small ''babies'' to deal less damage then. Happy if 5-7 kills is achieveable in the end similar to vorkath!

[tiny blade]

A huge QoL for lvl 95 would be about the Fighter Torso. I know it's a controversial suggestion (hence why it needs to be polled) but being able to obtain it outside Barbarian Assault (e.g. via other minigame) would make more content of the game worth doing.

For example, as of today if a player really wants a fighter torso but is unwilling to learn the complexities of the minigame (probably not that complex for a Barbarian assault veteran), there are clans which the player can pay for them to be carried through the matches in order to get enough points.

Maybe it's part of the intended way to make the player suffer play such a nostalgic part of osrs or maybe it's a sign that back in the day there weren't as much content to do minigame wise.

[ashen sparrow]

I cant see torso ever being possible outside of BA ever im afraid, i dont think id personally advocate for it either.

Thats not really a QoL change making gear available somewhere else.

[trim oxide]

Daeyalt AFK time is a good one, it does change around way to frequently, maybe every 2 mins to switch would feel better

[red pike]

I think Ba could just use a qol update to make it less annoying to get a team together

[trim oxide]

i think someone suggested changing BA recruitment before. from the scroll to a board like toa/tob

[alpine rose]

idt its that big of a deal personally. we have blood moon now/obsidean still as a cheaper option

never really forced to get torso

[opaque fossil]

but being able to obtain it outside Barbarian Assault
no. you can get a blood moon chestplate instead if you prefer that

[ashen sparrow]

My undertstanding of BA code is bubblegum and stickytape form 20 years ago. im not aware of anything grouping related that would be classed as simple or small on that minigame.

and i say that as someone whod love to see it work with only 4 players

[quartz quail]

One of the things I do find a bit weird is that after level 40 in melee, you sort of... need to go do BA to get the next step up in gear?

At least that's what I've heard. It's never really made much sense to me as a progression step. Maybe it could be made more obvious that that's the next upgrade to attempt to go for? Or maybe there can be new alternatives for the next upgrade?

Blood moon set (and other moon sets) I don't really think is really the right kind of alternative, due to the additional 75 level requirement.

[ashen sparrow]

i dont think its a need

it has str bonus which is why its bis during that time

[quartz quail]

I guess what I'm wondering is: after Rune gear, what should the player be aiming for? To me as an early/mid-game player, it's not entirely obvious.

[trim oxide]

if you can't change how the leader advertises it by making a board, can you add a board so players can advertise what roles they are willing to do?

[ashen sparrow]

dragon is generally the next step. higher level players will recommend BA, but to a new player with thats not a good recommendation

[trim oxide]

so that leaders can just go round and offer easily, less spam for everyone

[quartz quail]

Exactly. BA doesn't feel entirely right to be recommended to a new player. At least in its current state.

Meanwhile though, going for Dragon gear is quite bad for a nrw player too. There's that level jump between 40 to 60. And some pieces cost way too much.

[red pike]

The cost of dragon is def not helped by the fact that they are fairly rare drops from fairly difficult monsters for mid game players

[quartz quail]

The 50 level for melee feels a bit bare and weird.

[red pike]

Dragon cb is a good example being a 1/800 from rune drags which are already difficult to kill

[ashen sparrow]

mid level players will have 43 prayer and the ability to stand there remember on the NPCs that drop dragon there is no newly added mechanics except dragonfire, which theyre taught about in dragonslayer.
I disagree on the notion of them necessarily being "hard" for the player at that point

I would however agree there probably could be something in the level 50 slot without a 75 stat requirement too (thats more approachable than granite due to its weight). but thats a content change not a QoL change. because youd want to see that come freom new content not tackled oto something existing

[alpine rose]

honestly i just checked and i forgot there was a 75 str requirement to blood moon chest

[ashen sparrow]

that being said there is also void at that stage (42) which they would quite easily be able to obtain, though not necessarily signposted much

[quartz quail]

I think a lot of improvements to early/mid-game players, can really only be done via a non-QoL poll. If that makes sense.

I think if the QoL poll can only do small stuff, then the best thing would be to try and find ways to point players towards BA and/or PC. At least for now.

[alpine rose]

part of it i think is just that players have to learn about the game

cuz higher lvl gear can fall into niches that can be a bit confusing to understand as well

[crystal summit]

Can we finally make it so ALL pure essence get used out of pouches when clicking the altar instead of manually taking them all out, don't @ me about XP rates, it would be minor but the QoL is drastic

[quartz quail]

That's fair - I just think around the 50 stage for melee, it can be quite difficult in that transition from vertical progression to horizontal progression. Or at least not obvious.

Which I'd hope a QoL update could help make more obvious.

[obsidian onyx]

I don’t see why there’s a need to make ba the more obvious next step after dragon/obsidian

[tulip anvil]

I think the problem with void is that you're encouraged to only really farm it after 100 combat and medium CAs, because else it takes a very long time. That is something that could be tackled in a QoL poll, though.

[boreal plume]

I have a suggestion, there is a extremely dead early/mid game item from wilderness slayer called the slayer's enchantment. its purpose is to give 2500 charges to the slayer dart spell for enhanced damage. this spell has long been power creeped to no longer being relevant, slayer dart has been utterly destroyed by powered staffs and also now elemental weakness. not to mention it doesn't even do dps till 99 magic lol. I propose a rework to this item. maybe turn slayer staff into a powered staff an you charge it with these scrolls + a rune combo? the staff would only be usable on slayer task and sit between trident and warped scepter. it would also deal damage to turoths/kursaks and thus allowing you to just retire the slayer dart spell permantly.

[flint sail]

This 👍🏻

[boreal plume]

Its a substaintable buff to xp an hour though and runes/h

[analog silo]

This isn't midgame per-se (early game for members accounts and endgame for f2p accounts), but the f2p best in slot gear needs some attention, specifically ranged and mage. In members every combat style is important and has cool gear, but a f2p player that doesn't do research on the wiki would never know that, that's not their lived experience. It's time to let f2p get yew shortbows, rune arrows, blue mystic, and battlestaves. there are so many better options for members now, and it would bring the combat styles in line in f2p, your gear maxes out at 40. Blue mystic should probably get sold by an NPC in a f2p zone too (maybe aubury has a new assistant, or in the champion's guild?), as this would make the gear progression for irons make more sense, needing 66 magic to get tier 40 mage armor when tier 40 melee and ranged armor just requires questing is... strange.

[flint sail]

F2P is a limited mode tho, in other games such a trial only lasts for like 7 days. Shouldent have players that don't contribute to the game they play. They're also able to buy a bond to make it a members account if they so wish.

[limpid torrent]

Mage f2p needs something badly tho it's not rlly qol

[flint sail]

Think its better to spend developer time on the members that actually pay for the game

[analog silo]

FFXIV, arguably the most popular MMO out there, lets you play all but the two most recent expansions for free, forever. F2P is meant to get you hooked on the game so you start paying, not just be a trailer. the good MMOs know this, and OSRS is one of the good MMOs, which is why you can play as a f2p, forever.

[limpid torrent]

Speaking of qol altho obscure
Can churning not take 200 years also picking flax being manual and whatnot but lss has a nice thread about farming stuff @ashen sparrow

[flint juniper]

Churning 😂😭

[vivid onyx]

Oh, gonna repost what I mentioned on Twitter.

Adjusting some of those arbitrary and seemingly unnecessary and excessive skill checks for failure during mid level quests. Especially the older ones.

Zogre Flesh Eaters for example has that skill check when you are doing the sketch. Not sure why it's even there to begin with or what meaningful impact it has.

Make the infamous DT1 chest say a flat 1/6 chance regardless of Thieving level

[carmine verge]

I don't think those need changing at all.

Why are they a problem?

[limpid torrent]

Only thing that desperately needs a change is ratcatchers and that's mostly cuz ppl lead new players to the optimal guide which says to do it asap and half of em end up dropping it all cuz of it but that's more than simple qol

[carmine verge]

The only bad skill checks are ones you can fail at 99.

[vivid onyx]

They have adjusted notoriously frustrating parts of quest before. Like the aforementioned Ratcatchers

Maybe the Zogre Flesh Eaters one is a lesser example

But the DT1 chest is definitely a more infamous one

[carmine verge]

But they are not frustrating or broken though?

Though if you mean the DT1 chest specifically I agree

The only bad skill checks are ones you can fail at 99.

[vivid onyx]

Having to go all the way back to get more lockpicks multiple times in a remote location is definitely a huge annoyance.

Olaf's Quest too with the barrel.

Running a half marathon to get back each attempt

[carmine verge]

I think I'm with you on the DT1 chest but making it a flat 1/6 I'd be against. You are stealing from a chest, it makes sense that high Thieving would help.

[trim oxide]

Would stackable lockpicks be OP?

[vivid onyx]

I consider scaling success rates for repeatable content under a different umbrella than something that is one and done on an account

[carmine verge]

I don't

[radiant depot]

Speeding up the action of taking compost from a completed compost bin.
From this post #1239621263258026044 message

[near flicker]

Since the introduction of hunter rumors, there's a focus on repeating certain types of activities until you get the rare drop.

I'd like to see some changes to salamander hunting. Having a reset option on the trap whether failed or successful, this would mean the rope and net no longer drop to the ground when the trap is broken by a salamander. Ideally this would be similar to how box traps work. I'd also like to be able to reset a trap with a full inventory. Ideally this would automatically release the salamander and if it were to drop the rare piece it would fall to the ground.

I'm sure there are other things alongside this that could be nice.

[flint juniper]

"quest QoL" would be a cool topic that could fit in "early/mid game" since that's when you're doing quests but is probably distinct

I agree that rat catchers mansion & DT1 chest would go on that list

[daring cove]

Please give an update on Boss Slayer master. It's definitely one of the things I'd really love to get implemented.

[stable sage]

one suggestion i just thought about is allowing people to be members in multiple clans, choosing one you represent/show your affiliation with, while being able to be ranked/participate in toggleable chats for the others at the same time. similar to guild wars 2

im an administrator in the clan im in, but i also host the majority of large events we have, an find it restricting to be unable to truly participate in another clan simultaneously to be able to play in those events like bingos, or socialize

[reef abyss]

Ohh! As someone who has tried to get multiple people into the game, and I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already so I'm sorry if it has but the biggest thing I notice the people I introduce runescape to dislike, is that the tutorial island is too long, with way too many text boxes, and besides the arrow telling them what to tap, overall it's just really confusing to new players.. not sure how to combat this, but it's what I noticed..

The other issue I've seen, is even if I myself, teach them how things work in the game, and even if they understand it, the early game especially, doesn't have any sort of "what do you want to work on/towards" guide... it has the adventurer guide, which is great for telling played to get low level skills up and to get early quests done.. but if they don't know about the guy, he becomes redundant, and the new player is left with no direction and typically stops playing due to lack of interest..

Also while I'm here.. the early quests could do with giving some more specific directions to newer players who don't know what the wizard tower is, or even know where Juliette house is, or the varrock apothecary... it mentions to go to them in some cases.. but doesn't say where it is.. leaving newer players to wander aimlessly only to get bored because they couldn't achieve an early game quest that's asking them to run halfway around the f2p map and back.. there's a few ways this could be addressed, but I gotta go back to work.. hope this helps!

[low harbor]

Going to disagree on this. A good game has a solid F2P so you know how good/bad the game is.

If you get a solid chunk of the game from F2P (which you do) it is easier to decide if you want to invest in members or not.

[low harbor]

To build upon this, it would be cool to have a “choose your path” type of tutor, similar to how you pick Ironman, right after tutorial island (you could switch).

They’d give suggested tasks/goals/quests. For example, a combat tutor, or a skiller tutor.

Also have someone explain which quests give “game changing” rewards, so newer players can expect more than a few gold coins from helping to bake a cake, and know how to progress towards that.

Maybe like you pick a quest goal, and it checks off your requirements as you do them, including the whole quest tree.

[lusty jetty]

-Add a mounted necklace of passage to POH
-Add the ability to choose what song is played in your POH (but doesn’t unlock for others)

https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1260284241078652988

Also WAY more agility shortcuts to make the skill more rewarding to level up.

https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1217465514335404152

I also second the ability to choose what items you keep on death

[flint sail]

End-game content is lacking, toa is a disappointment for most (not for me tho), colosseum end less mode cancelled. Pretty sure a lot of people will be very disappointed as all the developer time is routed elsewhere. I think it’s important that the long-term players is not forgotten for too long. It’s important to get raids 4 in production, not F2P updates and making F2P more desirable.

I’m not totally opposed to lots of updates for F2P, but after raids 4 ty. 😁

[quartz quail]

I don't mind if there's focus on end-game updates. I think it's good to go back and forth between early/mid-game updates and end-game updates, in order to not forget either group.

Though the point of the post and thus Poll 83 was for early/mid-game players, so the ideas should be based on that.

[obsidian onyx]

A qol suggestion for smithing. Can we have the option to left click an anvil and automatically smith the last thing we made instead of needing to open the interface and either hitting space or selecting which item we want to select? Could be some way to toggle between smithing the last thing you made or opening the interface.

[reef abyss]

I'm curious on how this can actually help people though?

Could you give some examples? Seems like it'd mostly just end up as a gp sink to early/midgame players who Are pvming.. if they chose to replace a 10k death coffer item in place of say a glory to get to edge or row to get to ge.. it'd just cost them due to their lack of knowledge about deaths costs, and take from their probably already short cashstack..

[obsidian onyx]

This is more useful for irons

[wet seal]

The main thread for the suggestion of letting the player decide which items should be kept - #1224764532795117688 message - provides an example and it is very geared towards irons but mains could benefit a little as well, items going above that you'd rather lose, over something the game just thinks is worth less to a general store

[lusty jetty]

A specific example would be someone choosing to save an untradeable like the salve (ie) over their rune scimmy while doing pirate zombies

I think it mostly helps with losing untradeable

Or maybe someone would rather save their hard clue scroll in the wildy rather than their amulet of glory

[wet seal]

While I absolutely would, I think this is one thing that should be an exception to that suggestion because of things like the Clue box

then again it'd increase my value as someone who's messin around in the wilderness doing clues

[lusty jetty]

Exactly, it’s a win for pkers AND the pk’d

Increased value for both parties

[limpid harness]

It's 99% aimed at protecting untradable items

[low harbor]

Yeah, that’s not the point of this stickied post at all, if it was it wouldn’t say early/mid or QoL.

I like endgame content, specifically team oriented endgame content, but if you don’t invest the time in developing content for newer players, eventually there’s nobody left to play with, as older players move on or get busy with real life.

It’s a very selfish approach to say a developer should work on content that is aimed at end game. What if crafting for example was only picking and spinning flax, then you could make zenyte jewelry. Nothing between. Quite the extreme example, but it should illustrate just how important early/midgame content really is.

[lusty jetty]

And hard to acquire items for irons

[limpid harness]

@whole stratus we summon thee to let us choose what items to protect on death

https://tenor.com/view/cat-spiritus-summon-vintage-fountain-pen-gif-22872604

[limpid harness]

Yeah, for example an iron account going afk and losing an RCB by some minecarts for example

https://tenor.com/view/swampletics-swatletics-fbi-open-up-fbi-meme-gif-13755507

[lusty jetty]

I’d also like to add to this while we’re talking about items lost on death and the wilderness.

The three wildy weapons are all charged with revenant ether to be able to use them. The items lost on death interface DOES NOT tell you that you will lose the ether in these weapons if you are killed by another player. Most people I know only learned this by losing like 1m in ether out in the wildy when they’re trying out their new weapon.

Please show lost ether and its value to the items lost on death interface. A mid level player losing 1m without knowing the risk they were taking can be bad enough to make them quit.

[low harbor]

Actually scamming etc is another deterrent for newer players. Maybe something letting players know that the people trimming armour for free, or linking to a “giveaway” at the GE are scammers and they should report them and move on.

I do know plenty of people who quit after being scammed, especially when they were younger or newer to the game, since they had less time invested.

[boreal plume]

Ether system is extremely bad and really needs a rework anyways. i think activating the wep with 1k ether is fine but it shouldnt be lost on death unless you lose the wep. you should still charge it with ether to deal damage but not the activation fee to be lost. also ether should have no alch value, so if you break bracelets into ether you are removing active gold out the game.

[vivid onyx]

But the NPC dialogue does direct people players to where those are. Or the general direction.

[boreal plume]

Also pls get rid of parchment system, make items above 30 wildy, just break an incur a repair fee.

[vivid onyx]

Checked in the Wiki and Duke Horacio during Rune Mysteries literally says the Wizard Tower is south west of the castle

[boreal plume]

ive seen a lot of noob players out in their torso/firecape/d defender in the wildy

im sure they dont know you can lose it as its protected below lvl 30

[vivid onyx]

Romeo tells you the Apothecary is next to the sword shop

Plus, there is a world map they can pull up to look around the general area to see if there are any buildings of interest

[lusty jetty]

I lost my vorky backpack out in the wildy because I assumed you’d be able to buy it back from Perdu just like the other two Ava’s devices

So I agree with you

[boreal plume]

Ya the parchment system is a band-aid to a real problem, not a solution.

[vivid onyx]

You can, you just need a new head IIRC

[lusty jetty]

Yeah and that was my issue

[vivid onyx]

I do agree that death mechanics in the Wilderness past 20 are a bit wonky

Honestly, I would say just do away with them and treat all deaths in the Wilderness exactly the same.

[boreal plume]

parchments are just not needed when we have a system that can already take its place in the broken item system for already other pvp areas

[reef abyss]

The first example you gave I personally can't see any good examples for, but I understand how that could be useful in some super niche cases.. but to reply to the replied comment, I personally think that specific example defeats the purpose of the risk involved in doing wildy steps for clues. The risk for the clue is just kinda rooted in the origin.. I don't want to start any sort of EOC debacle due to being able to protect clues 😅

[boreal plume]

What benefit is there to losing an untradeable

[eager ledge]

Ironmen losing hard to obtain items because an easy to obtain item has more gp value

[reef abyss]

Ohh good one! I like that example

[eager ledge]

Ngl, it’d probably primarily be used by ironmen but i can also envisage mains using it if they say wanted to bring prospector to wildy resource area and would rather lose a d/r pick than spend another 10h at mlm

[reef abyss]

Yeah, but I tried to suggest that someone do restless ghost, and the whole time I had to guide them because they had no idea where any of the locations were.. I had a thought that maybe a floating map arrow could added to the minimap while doing quests, in order to "point" to where you had to go.. maybe something that could just be implemented to the beginner/(2nd lowest tier??) Of quests, just to guide them while they're learning, and then have a fine print at the end of the the 2nd tier quests, that let's them know that harder quests won't have a guiding arrow..

(this is just to keep the lategame quests free of unwanted clutter for experienced players... this or make it a togglable setting.. probably makes it alot easier overall.)

[flint juniper]

This just sounds like quest helper plugin. I do wish the official client had a quest helper that was in between "here's a giant pointing error over evening" and "glhf nothing for ya"

[languid quartz]

Please for the love of God increase agility rates any skill that the best rate at level 40 is less then 20k an hour is a absolute joke

[stable sage]

we just needit to be fun or afk is all

heres an idea

[boreal plume]

once you reach 52 wildy agility is really good exp an money

but getting to 52 is paingeee

[stable sage]

what if we had a sort of dodgeball game for early levels that let you avoid mechanics like training for boss attacks, but it gave agility xp

[quartz quail]

Gnomeball

[stable sage]

maybe it could be how they fix that mess

more about skill in physiically maneuvering yourself than anything else though

[quartz quail]

Well Gnomeball already gives XP in Agility and Ranged. So I guess the important part is making the activity feel more engaging. And perhaps subsequently, reward more XP.

[vivid onyx]

Here's the dialogue from Father Aereck and the ghost copied from the Wiki

Father Aereck: Exit the graveyard through the south gate to reach the swamp. I'm sure if you told him that I sent you he'd be willing to help.```

```Restless ghost: I think it was one of the warlocks who lives in the big tower by the sea south-west from here.```

Directions are pretty straightforward on where you are supposed to head off to and look. Likewise, they also have a world map they can reference at any time to scout around the area for any kind of building or points of possible interest beforehand. 

Not sure what went wrong, like if your friend paid zero attention to the dialogue. Most of this stuff should also be listed on the quest journal as well typically.

[opaque fossil]

wat

agility is fine as is imo

40 -> 50 is like less than 5 hours of agility and then you get to move on

[languid quartz]

How is a skill that takes longer to get to 99 then it takes to get 3-4 skills to 99 in a good place?

That's not even complaining for the sake of complaining. It's a genuine question

[vivid onyx]

I have been watching this odd influx of WoW players trying OSRS for the first time on YouTube and they had no such issues. The directions are also literally right there. Not sure what would go wrong with Restless Ghost when the directions are such explicitly specific in the quest journal.

There are a few quests that are outliers, but most of the time, quests are pretty straightforward.

[alpine rose]

with quest helper u dont need to do anything

nearly all puzzle solved and ur guided everywhere

[vivid onyx]

Having a built in official quest helper that tells you what step you're on I think might be fine.

Basically, like having the quest journal on an overlay

[stable sage]

165 efficient hours to 99 agility, out of what was it, 860 or smth to efficiently max a whole ass account?

thats 1/23 skills taking 1/5th the time

[languid quartz]

Yeah nearly 25% of the entire max grind is spent on 1 skill

[stable sage]

1 skill thats only running in circles and not afk at all

im sure theres training methods people could come up with that are faster, but intensive as f***

[languid quartz]

In what world does that made sense to have 20-25% of maxing spent on 1 skill

[stable sage]

especially when the skill is centere around saving you time

l0l

the best shortcut is dont train agility

[barren adder]

There's also things like sepulchre if you genuinely want agility xp. If not, rooftops are chill enough and don't need a crazy buff in xp. They're planning on working on the run energy as its own thing as well

[stable sage]

heres an agility method i just thought up on the spot. randomly generated mazes you solve with puzzles and shit inside of them for whatever lore reason, like walls, pits, traps etc springing from the floor, with you needing to bring gems from one spot to another, or flip switches to deactivate it, maybe even giving small thieving xp on top of good agility rates? some things with moving dangers in areas you have to maneuver around with precise tiles, too

[eager ledge]

Level 30 is 30k exp/h, if you choose to pursue rewards over fastest ratss, don’t complain about the rates.

[eager ledge]

You can’t max in 800h. It’s more like 2000. Also, that is with the most efficient methods and tick manipulation. If you were doing that, you’d be able to get 99 agility whilst simultaneously getting 99 mage, fletching, high 90s cooking and crafting. That’s 5 skills for like 160h work, seems reasonable to me

[languid quartz]

Varrock agility at lvl 30 is 11-14k xp an hour idk what your on about

[eager ledge]

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Update:Project_Rebalance_Part_One_-_Skilling

Next.

[languid quartz]

Also it's entirely possible to max is 860 hours. Fastest time to max recorded us 748 hours

The average player will not max in that time but it's possible

[eager ledge]

Agility is VERY competitive with other skills at low levels. Mining you’d struggle to get 30k/h below 41, slayer, all combats except mage, rc, hunter (active), etc

Plus, as croq already stated, they’re not looking for just “double exp rates” suggestions, that’s not qol

[languid quartz]

I never said to double it. I simply stated to increase it

[stable sage]

i think some of the issue is its unfun, too

160 hours of entertaining content is better than 80 of hell

[languid quartz]

Not one single player with say that increasing agility xp per hour by even 20% would be a bad thing or have a negative impact to gameplay

[eager ledge]

Fun is subjective. Some people enjoy questing, others hate it. Some enjoy pvm, others hate it.

[modest lichen]

I think a flat 20% boost would be a bad thing and have a negative impact on gameplay

A new way to train that makes it engaging i feel is a better way to deal with the monotony

But thats not qol so

[languid quartz]

How would it gave a negative impact to gameplay

[eager ledge]

I would, there’s 1. And if you scroll to the top of this thread someone already suggested increasing rates and received overwhelmingly negative feedback. There’s another 10

[eager ledge]

Agreed. Variety = good, making the game easier and easier = bad

[stable sage]

then whats the issue with my suggestion

[modest lichen]

If your solution is to bypass gameplay then its not good gameplay. We should improve it so its better to do not so you can get past it quicker.

I can agree that agility could use some improvements but its all beyond the scope of a qol update

[eager ledge]

What was your suggestion? I joined the convo late and just saw you two discussing we need to increase exp rates

Someone had a good suggestion of alternative training methods at the top of this thread, where you were rewarded exp for dodging obstacles

That i’d support if exp rates were similar, like a mini introduction to hallowed

[stable sage]

i do think there should be higher exp high intensity methods for lower levels. mainly i want to see stuff thats either just entertaining to do, or helps teach you mechanics you might need later in the game

[eager ledge]

But that would be beyond the scope of a qol update

[stable sage]

like what if the barbarians threw shit at you and had spikes come out of the floor and you had to dodge all of it

[stable sage]

im just making suggestions

[eager ledge]

I agree with the second half of that comment, but the increased exp rates are a no from me as agility is already competitive

It’s only 3-4h for 52 at which point your exp rate triples and you’re also rewarded with some of the best skilling gp/h available

And when you get to hallowed at 71, it’s the best skilling gp/h in the game from what I’ve aware of

Alongside very acceptable exp rates

[languid quartz]

I genuinely don't understand why your so against increasing xp rates in a skill where you can't even get close to 100k xp an hour till 92 in the skill. Only other skill close to that is runecrafting but it has many many training methods offering a variety of ways to do it that are actually semi engaging

[stable sage]

how are you getting 52 agility in 4 hours

[eager ledge]

Quest 1-38, shayzien till 52, wildy till 71, hallowed till 99

If all you care about is exp rates

[peak tundra]

It shocks me that people complain about agility xp rates so much when it’s significantly better than slayer

[eager ledge]

Plus you can make darts, alch, bake pies and craft shit while you do agility

So you’re training 5 skills at once

[eager ledge]

Agreed. It’s just cause agility requires you to actually play the game, where as slayer most people pursue afk methods and just protect melee and load a cannon

[peak tundra]

I do agree that Agility could do with a “rework” that makes it more engaging than rooftops/traditional agility but not just saying “Sepulcher is one activity that is active, fun and rewarding so we can ignore the rest of the skill!” But xp rates is not the right answer and that solution wouldn’t be QoL

[stable sage]

i think part of it with slayer is that it gives you so much to do by the time it gets slow

just clogging high level slayer levels you up

but agility for agilities sake only gives you that, and some gp

[peak tundra]

I mean 95% of the time most of the player base spends on slayer is meleeing enemies in single combat, possibly using a cannon

[stable sage]

slayer bossing is fun

[peak tundra]

And slayer is basically “oh you want to kill this boss? Too bad, you can only do it on task, better suck it up”

[eager ledge]

You’re not bossing till 70+ stats, 70+ agil you can do hallowed which is also “fun”

[peak tundra]

“Go do bad tasks or Turael skip so you can enjoy bosses”

Garg boss is also uhhh really mediocre loot and generally not great with mid-game stats and gear

[stable sage]

by 70 agility, sepulchre is the last new content you get til 99, only adding a floor every 10 levels

[peak tundra]

But again, that’s not really QoL

[stable sage]

vs newslayer bosses and clogs to go for every few levels

[modest lichen]

Well thats what i said isnt it? Other methods that are more engaging should be added, not just a flat 20% boost. The other methods are again, outside the scope of a qol update so not relevant to the topic here so i wont go into detail.

[peak tundra]

Each floor is significantly better, but like I said above, I think the “issues” people have with agility go far beyond “xp rates qol lol”

Yeah similar to what is right above this

[stable sage]

theres also not much leading new players into the good xp rate agility stuff there is

[eager ledge]

Could you elaborate?

[stable sage]

on a surface level when youre new its basically just rooftops, without researching quest xp rewards, or methods you dont unlock until completing a quest line

[eager ledge]

A suggestion to lead newer players into good ways of training skills may fit within the scope of this thread

[peak tundra]

Nothing really leads new players into any meta training method tbh. I don’t think that’s inherently an issue. I’ve seen people play this game guideless and they were shocked and immediately drawn into Sepulcher the moment they unlocked it

[eager ledge]

So what would a solution to that look like?

[stable sage]

like, a new player training agility would have no reasonable way to know the penguin course has good rates and they should do cold war

[peak tundra]

Where does the game say “go 2t swordfish and 3t granite”

It shouldn’t

A new player has more than enough reason to look into something when they see it on the skill guide imo

And in fact, new players are probably even more likely to do so

[stable sage]

what if the skill training guide had some metric for showing players the different knobs they use for things?

intensity? low. gp rewards? low. xp rate? medium.

[modest lichen]

I feel that might be too overwhelming for the UI but its not a bad idea

[stable sage]

some kind of way to show that to a person in a simple to understand way without doing wiki research

[peak tundra]

I feel like if anything the skill guide should just encourage people to try new stuff, not look at a table of data and try to min-max without trying the content

[modest lichen]

Maybe that information can come from another source like iunno a tutor or something that tells you best xp/gp/whatever at your level

Which they kinda do for a little while with other tutors

[stable sage]

well maybe it would?

seeing certain content having high gp value might pique someones interest

vs the low intensity low xp method thats more obvious to spot in the wild

like any dummy can walk into draynor, varrock, and falador and see the rooftop courses, but even something like agility pyramid is really far out of the way for people. youll never go that direction naturally without something external pointing you there

and a new player wouldnt know you get fair gp from it

[rare anchor]

Maybe allow us to trade in MoG for experience as well?

[stable sage]

the price of amylase is going to skyrocket if that goes through lol

[limpid harness]

I would not want to ever see MoG's tradeable for lamps holy shit

[modest lichen]

While i dont like the idea, it would definitely be a way to increase xp rates without a significant change in anything

[limpid harness]

that could be so bad

[rare anchor]

My opinion, Amylase should be moved to new herblore activity and MoG traded foe extra xp

[modest lichen]

Depending on how the xp/mog it could work out but still just personally not a fan of it

[stable sage]

hell, the skill guide could even have blurbs about the content you see when you click on them, kinda how you see on combat achievements

[limpid harness]

how many sources of Amylase crystals are there?

[stable sage]

i cant post a screenshot

[limpid harness]

is it just marks

[modest lichen]

Nah the uhh brimhaven one

[stable sage]

just marks basically

[limpid harness]

surprised there isn't one in prif

[stable sage]

oh thats a new update then?

[limpid harness]

no image perms, dm it to me

[modest lichen]

I think it was a few months ago with the agility revamp

[limpid harness]

I'll share whatever you're trying to send

[rare anchor]

Maybe add a Mark of Luck that can be xp traded?

Both can spawn on the same spots and same timings

[modest lichen]

New npc called luck when lmao

[stable sage]

imagine seeing a screen like this about notable content training methods, with the difficulty screen showing a spread of how good the money/xp is vs the intensity

and a short description of what youre doing there

[modest lichen]

But no that would be worse. Trading in grace is better since you're losing gp for more xp while with marks of luck you get both

I personally didnt like the idea since i believe the proper xp rate should just be built into the course

[limpid harness]

I would rather there be a hotspot mechanic or something for agility courses. Randomly every few hours one of the non wilderness courses will become boosted with a tail wind, XP rates are scaled to your level and failure rates are reduced so even if you are a higher level player you still get competitive XP rates with other higher level courses

would get a lot of people hanging out together

ik that isn't perfect

but I would rather that than MoG's being traded for xp

[stable sage]

i dont see an issue off the bat with that idea but it doesnt feel oldschool

[rare anchor]

Sadly what does to me is lap milestone xp rewards

[limpid harness]

could make it so you can trade in marks of grace to give yourself a mini blessing so you get a reduced fail rate

[stable sage]

why -isnt- that a thing

[limpid harness]

effectively increases XP rate

[modest lichen]

True lap milestone rewards would be nice

[rare anchor]

To me it would work similar to slayer point rewards, every X lap you get a little bonus and every Y lap you get a big bonus

[limpid harness]

I'd be down for lap rewards

just gotta balance things with the diary reward unlocks

[near flicker]

I can't wait for the backlog of milestone xp the next time I run a course I have 10k laps in

[limpid harness]

increasing the MoG drop rates at certain laps

[cerulean ferry]

A QoL midgame buff would be to give Quest Rewards back. Things like Vorkath's Head and the Ancient Icon have no need to be locked behind 50 KC of the post-quest boss.

And let's rethink how long some midgame grinds should take. Something like the Remnants of the Eye set shouldn't take 40 hours to get IMO.

[rare anchor]

So you see Lap Milestones as unlockables? 100 laps gives extra MoG, 1K laps stops failure kind of thing?

[modest lichen]

I can agree with bringing midgame quests reward back. It does feel a bit bad when you have to grind for the ACTUAL quest reward

I dont think the raimnent grind is that bad though nor is it super needed. It just increases runes not xp and when everyone buys their runes anyway its just a nice little bonus

[cerulean ferry]

The FOMO is a real feels bad for someone who hates the gameplay loop of GotR, but doesn't want to do traditional RC until I have the outfit

[modest lichen]

I dont think fomo should be a reason to change drop rates.

[limpid harness]

I think having to do the bosses in their true form at least once for the drop is a good idea

but making it 50 for the pity is a bit much

[modest lichen]

Make bosses have the same stats as post quest, no more easy mode

[limpid harness]

lol

[cerulean ferry]

Like you said, most people just buy their runes anyways. So the only people who would use it are the people who want to play suboptimally, and I think a 40 hour grind to play suboptimally is a bit steep

[limpid harness]

I mean

lotta people do want to see awakened versions of other bosses

awakened vorkath when?

[modest lichen]

Its not really playing suboptimally though since your gameplay doesnt change with or without the outfit

I think its more significant as a diary req bypass

[near flicker]

Terrifying I love it.

[still herald]

While crafting runes for self use is suboptimal by conventional means for mains, rainments mainly provide extra profit to the RC skill if the user were to take them to other activities, such as blood rune/ true blood altar runecrafting, nature, and wrath runecrafting

[peak tundra]

I’d go for making first ancient icon a guarantee at 50 like vorkath but definitely not free for either. They’re very reasonable to get 50kc if you can finish the quest and it’s good to make you at least work a little for it

[limpid harness]

unironically, will push for my rat catchers 2 shitpost from a while ago #1260852463351763004

awakened Scurrius would be funny

and also a more fun optimal melee training boss

[near flicker]

Awakened obor where you can get a tunic that boosts melee strength

[modest lichen]

Nah awakened obor, no increase in drop rates but you get guaranteed orn for blood hill giant club

[cerulean ferry]

I personally just don't understand why the mentality changed. Quest Rewards being rewarding is part of runescapes DNA. The 50 KC is just a cruel gate for people who scrapped by the fight to begin with.

[peak tundra]

Is it a bad take to say that if you can’t get 50kc you din’t deserve the drop? That’s barely even scraping the surface of the content, and you already get unlocks for finishing the quest

[still herald]

In terms of Early/Mid game RC qol, it could be beneficial to remove the "pouch degredation" mechanic which would subsequently open up the skill cape for a better reward and give players doing traditional runecrafting a smoother gameplay loop

[near flicker]

F2P boss pets locked behind the members only awakened variants

[peak tundra]

That’s like saying you should get a free torture for finishing mm2, but neglecting that you get a royal seed pod and chinning spot for finishing

[cerulean ferry]

IMO, it's good for the game when all 3 pillars of the game (PvM, Skilling, and Questing) each feel rewarding.

Most of the OSRS original quests feel super lack luster

[peak tundra]

I’d honestly be more likely to say that we should remove the 50kc vork head than add more guarantees for actual gear upgrades

You don‘t get a free dscim when you finish mm1 either, you at least still have to spend 100k on it

It makes sense for things that are actual bis to require you to work at least a little for it

And Assembler was bis for years on end until colo

[modest lichen]

It does feel like the rewards went from a one off thing to a money making grind. I would still like some just flat out rewards though

But this all goes outside of qol for the poll again haha

[cerulean ferry]

Plenty of Quest Rewards have been BiS before :p

[eager ledge]

Please god no, rcing with 91+ and remnants set is 3m/h, let’s not make it easier for bot farms to run rune prices into the ground more than they already have

[cerulean ferry]

Ava's included

[cerulean ferry]

20 hours vs. 40 hours doesn't make any sort of difference for bots

Makes a huge impact for real players

[still herald]

I think the 3 pillars of osrs, by the deifinition of the other two in this case, would be PVM, Skilling, and PVP (not to say PVP is a massive pillar or equally as driving as a factor), while questing is a vehicle that propels all three given that each feed into each other at all times while quests create stop gaps/points of progression for all accounts included in these 3 types

[eager ledge]

Agreed. Vork head should be entirely rng based, guaranteed drops take the fun rng out of pvm and make it “grind this 50x then you can go bacj to what you were doing”

[cerulean ferry]

This thread is low-key a disaster lol

Bunch of end game players chiming in about mid game suggestions

[modest lichen]

It does get a bit off track from qol updates but just some sifting through and you can get some nice ideas

[eager ledge]

It makes a huge difference to bots? 50% reduction in time to catch them before they start making huge money?

[alpine rose]

i think those players have most insight about overall game

[azure vale]

They are absurdly out of touch though.

[alpine rose]

not to say other players opinions dont matter but theirs shouldint also not matter

[cerulean ferry]

Bots are going to run 24/7 for weeks on end.

You gave them an extra day of botting. Drop in the bucket

[eager ledge]

An extra 20h in a heavily populated area where they’re more likely to get spotted and reported and banned is a huge difference

[cerulean ferry]

I've said my piece, I didn't really want to debate it. The question was what would be some QoL updates for early/midgame players. I believe the things I suggested would accomplish that 🙂 Have a good night guys!

[azure vale]

Nobody is catching bots in GotR

[eager ledge]

Plus, as others have pointed out, eye outfit is certainly not required

[alpine rose]

in what way? i agree to an extent but i do think lot of early/midgame players lack knowlege of what their options actually are for progressing

[eager ledge]

A 40h grind to get 80% more money for the next 200h you spend rcing is very reasonable

[alpine rose]

so game feels alot worse then what it actually is

[modest lichen]

Lets get back on topic for qol updates instead of everyones credentials

[alpine rose]

fair enough ye

[eager ledge]

A good qol for the wider game would be to increase voting requirements tbh. 300 total and 25h you know nothing about the game

[still herald]

I'm far from an endgame player, if it's fair I'd like to say what I believe without being too defensive, otherwise I feed heavily into stereotyping or common mistakes for the sake of not understanding what I said was wrong.

Rather, the moment someone says "I see nothing wrong with this", shouldn't mean there aren't any problems, it means that our scope of how this would impact anything gameplay wise is limited and why we put these ideas out in the first place (to be checked).

[modest lichen]

I think expanding the chronicle teleport locations might be nice

Maybe another location south of fally

[eager ledge]

Feels like that’d devalue the glory grind on irons

And lummy med grind

[modest lichen]

Theres a glory tele to south fally location?

I only use it for edgeville haha

And al kharid

[eager ledge]

Glory to draynor

Lum med to south fally farm patch

[modest lichen]

Eh i was thinking in a bit more inconvenient of a location south of fally so it wouldnt devalue

But would give early game another way to travel since movement has been a common complaint

[cerulean ferry]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here

[modest lichen]

Lumby med is free and mostly for the farm patch as well, i was thinking maybe around melzar maze? In the mining area perhaps

[peak tundra]

I don’t feel like that’s distinct enough from Rimmington POH or Ring of the Elements tele, but Chronicle rn is also close to Combat bracelet tele so could be fine. Would be a huge change for F2P though and might shift a lot for crafting guild access

Things to consider

[modest lichen]

Oh absolutely but its not supposed to be. Its there for early game till you unlock and outgrow it just like the chronicle as it is now

[still herald]

I'm trying to say there's a lot beyond what either of us understand in terms of gameplay, and it's important even though we would be the most effected by some type of change, that we ourselves need to broaden how we view the game to avoid throwing out misconceptions or statements that may not be relevant

[near flicker]

Chronicle to the stones north of falador, near the agility shortcut. It would require 3 items to be a "useful" teleport to falador but still faster than running?

[limpid harness]

This was brought up loosely in the better farming thread but some kind of unlock where we can note logs at tool leprechauns would be pretty swell

Would make it so you can store logs for future training more easily

[peak tundra]

Not inherently opposed but that just sounds like a bis tele for beginner clue step more than Falador access

[limpid harness]

I know it's currently not in the game due to exploits but blocking it behind song of the elves and maybe some other requirement would solve it

[modest lichen]

I feel that would be too op since you can just grow trees and the leprechaun is there

[limpid harness]

Probably would need to block hardwoods

[near flicker]

1.5t teaks on fossil island and banking the logs is crazy

[peak tundra]

I mean you’d lose a lot of ticks to running to note

[limpid harness]

That or make them charge an obscene amount of gold

[near flicker]

less than running to bank though

[modest lichen]

Yeah probably just maybe 4 or 5 tiles away?

[peak tundra]

Valid if you’re saying for like an iron banking logs yeah

[modest lichen]

Do it whenever the tree drops

[near flicker]

make them charge leaves for it

Encourages the use of the forestry pack since you can pay with leaves from it, and ensures you've spent time skilling to deserve qol that nice

[modest lichen]

I think its just too op in general and we already have the forestry leprechaun event for it

Increase forestry event chance tho

[still herald]

I think introducing the player to the concept of tiered weapons to give players a better expectation to how and where things are places in terms of progression. For example, 1-40 att/def moving through the common metal tiers whilst also explaining that dragon (in terms of what is dropped or where things can be bought) lets players understand narrowing down on the effective styles, accuracy and defense values of different weapons. Representing that past the metal tiers that players should start collecting weapons to specialize in more than just generalist activities to promote better knowledge of the game in the future (mostly to avoid players using osmumten's fang against low - 0 defense enemies)

This can also come with a tweak to the dragon longsword special attack, making it (albeit a lackluster in terms of higher tiered items) a worthwile special attack for players against enemies with high defense over a less accuracy reliant dragon dagger as an example.

At most introducing this concept early on can be a positive but I'm not entierly sure.

[near flicker]

There should be for sure an explanation that there are more melee types than just hit thing with sword.

[modest lichen]

I think introducing a quest to explain it would be good

[peak tundra]

I think that’s way better addressed with making Monster Examine a global examine option rather than a “tutorial”

[modest lichen]

Just blocks of text are gunna be skipped

[peak tundra]

If you see stats on your stats page and on the enemy stats page, you can connect the dots

[near flicker]

make the skill tutors actually tutor

[modest lichen]

They did mention a bestiary update which i think would be nice

[near flicker]

afaik the melee tutor is just the guy who gives me the def cape, the mage tutor is just a guy for free runes when you start and the range tutor is useless

[peak tundra]

I would say at best have tutors describe what styles of weapon give what type of bonus, particularly with ranged, then let monster stats be more accessible and all is solved there

Mage tutor could definitely describe a bit of the magic rework though, maybe with mentions of maxhits of spells increasing as you unlock higher elements in the same style, brief overview of weaknesses and categories of enemies weak to styles with a follow-on dialogue option

[modest lichen]

Maybe having a miniquest like the adventure paths for each tutor to have you try out those things?

[peak tundra]

Magic rework nuances are not intuitive as much as melee/range combat styles

[near flicker]

To be less wiki dependent, I could see a quest/mini that highlights monster weaknesses existing, attack styles, range damage types. Maybe a training crossbow / training darts.

[modest lichen]

I may be bias since i prefer doing rather than reading about it haha

But i also worry people will just spacebar through things so making them try it out may stick better in their minds

[near flicker]

I think this probably goes back into make tutorial island great again

more than a series of miniquests

[modest lichen]

True but i think tutorial island is too iconic to change at this point

And with the "miniquests" you can skip it if you're already familiar

[near flicker]

It's been almost 20 years since my first tutorial island adventure. While I agree it's iconic, I don't feel like it hooks a new player into the world. I'd like to see maybe an opt-in new tutorial, when you select it's your first time playing RS or that you're returning after some time. This could have some kind of daddy's home type cutscene with some early game through late game activities and skills you could unlock and play with

Maybe ask the player why they've started playing and having a tailored scene per choice: skilling, PvM, PvP, questing, exploration, achievements, social
or have a set of orbs they could click on to see different things
Kinda to show them why they should grind things out and the experiences they could be having

[still herald]

I think this would make sense, give players an overview of what to expect and what's to come for these different things that they are interested in and have a set of guidelines (whilst not outright giving the player exactly what to do at all times) could be very helpful and intiutive for those who would like to streamline their thought processes better

[near flicker]

On a different topic, I absolutely hate destroying mice (and my wrists) doing thieving. I'd like to see some kind of low intensity thieving training akin to shooting stars.

[still herald]

I believe they released one in varlamore (and pyramid plunder is relatively low apm)

[azure vale]

Ya I think stealing from wealthy citizens is what it was.

[modest lichen]

I think the rich peeps in varlamore would be your low intensity thieving as well as one click summer garden

[near flicker]

shooting stars caps at around 31k xp/h with 99 mining and prospector and crystal pick. Stealing valuables starts at 72k xp/h and requires you to be active, similar to the artefacts in piscarilius. Pyramid plunder is a dangerous activity.
I very much enjoyed the over powered no-fail auto-pickpocket boon from the previoius league. I don't think it would be entirely gamebreaking to put in a suboptimal auto-pickpocket. If you take the tick perfect ardy knight at 99 xp rate of 252900xp/h and divide by the target similar xp rate of shooting stars, it's a factor of 8. Pickpocketing is a 2 tick action, therefore automatically rethieving from the target every 16 ticks turns ardy knight into a 31k xp/h activity.

As long as you keep the ability to spam every 1.2 seconds in there it shouldn't be a problem for people actively farming. It couldn't be abused by bots because they're going to click perfectly anyway. I know this is a point and click adventure game, but maybe sometimes we can just sit back and wait 5 minutes to click again. I honestly think every skill should have an afk training method, even if the rewards are pretty bad. low xp low gp. At least with shooting stars you're getting additional chances when you do 3t 4g later by charging the ring.

[modest lichen]

Personally i think 2m afk is enough since i do want people to actually play the game

[near flicker]

I believe in most cases your hp would be the limiting factor in how long you could afk while thieving. Consider elves or vyres or even tzhaar where you are constantly losing hp for thieving them. You can only get optimal rates while paying attention and being active.
You can conceivably afk for just as long or longer with skills that are already in the game. Redwoods despawn in 4.5 minutes, it takes 3 - 5 minutes to fill an inventory and fish barrel with karambwan, Combat skills can be trained entirely afk for ~10 minutes, with magic being able to be trained for longer as long as the player is splashing. I don't think any of these methods are the optimal way to train their respective skills.
You could also tie the amount of time you're allowed to afk pickpocket with a diary reward, similarly to how the coin pouches are tied to ardy.

I find it annoying to trap a master farmer in a corner just to have him move because I click through him.

[eager ledge]

Why does everyone just want afk methods for everything? If you don’t want to play the game, don’t?

[modest lichen]

I do understand the attraction towards afk methods as it helps with the fomo of xp loss but i do think there should be a limit to it since like you say, people should just play the game.

I dont mind catering towards that crowd with some limits of course

[frail karma]

my biggest gripe would be reworking achievement diaries a lot of the rewards/perks are dated & or not useful or are tied to only elites Lumby and Kourend really, and a lesser extend desert for Nardah
many end up just not seeing a reason to do them

[flint juniper]

Agreed, achievement diary rewards are quite unbalanced. And some seem useful once you're past the audience for the content (KQ shortcut needing KQ head)

[near flicker]

I have chronic wrist pain, pickpocketing being a 2tick optimal rhythm in particular hurts. I also find it hard to do on mobile or while doing other things. I very much enjoy playing the game. I'd just like some qol.

[flint juniper]

Teleports as consistent achievement diary reward would be nice

[eager ledge]

Get a foot pedal

You can already trap npcs so they never move, then you can just hover your mouse and spam click. With a foot pedal you get the added bonus of some killer calves 💪🏾

Be honest, if given the option of 300k active mindless clicking without moving your mouse or 30k afk, how often are you not going to click? Also, even clicking once every 5 seconds would be better than the afk method suggested. You don’t HAVE to pickpocket optimally if you’re busy irl

[flint juniper]

Idk I think early game is biased too heavily towards questing. Optimally you shouldn't train many skills 1-30 & should spend first 20 hours questing

But OSRS is a game known for grinding and there should still be early game grinds

Vorkath definitely getting into mid game and doing grinds properly but 50kc is pretty good compared to the hundreds / thousands for some drops past this point

[spark wraith]

i think it would be nice if hitsplats on your character were different colors for mage/range/melee then some way of telling if the attack was blocked by protection prayer would help learning prayer switch timing

[modest lichen]

I think that stuff should be kinda obvious? Like you're doing mage dmg cause you're casting a spell or your dmg got blocked because the enemy has the prayer above their head telling you that

Although i can see some situations it might be useful? Maybe the voidwaker or special enemy attacks like bloodvelds so maybe

[spark wraith]

talking on ur character when being attacked by bunch of monsters

[modest lichen]

Then that sounds like it would be a good idea 🤔

[quartz quail]

There is Distraction Pickpocketing in Varlamore, if you're interested in that. It's more AFK than normal Pickpocketing.

[modest lichen]

Ah we already discussed that with em haha

[quartz quail]

Ah okay 👍

[trim oxide]

Not sure if its in the scope of 'QOL' but a new multi slayer dungeon that lets you use a cannon for tasks that are slow, skipped at the higher end & on early game slayer masters.
Fire Giants, Moss giants, Aberrant Spectres ..etc

similar to the previous early slayer changes, this should make it a smoother experience if someone isnt waiting until they can use nieve/duradel

also helps the late game players by potentially freeing up block spots /skips by turning bad tasks into reasonable ones

[carmine verge]

Why is this needed?

I think making changes just for the heck of it is a bad thing

But yeah straight-up buffs like this seem a little big for "QoL"

[quartz quail]

I think the issue with Agility is that certain parts need some "buffs". Not really buffs in XP, but elsewhere:

• Rooftop Courses are arguably not great XP vs Hallowed Sepulchre. They're also less intensive though. But I think the issue is that based on the amount of clicking you're doing, players feel that they're at least not as rewarding as they should be. I don't think these need XP increases beyond the recent changes, but I do think there could be additional rewards beyond Marks of Grace.
• For a lot of courses, the fact you can still fail some obstacles feels bad. Or even if failure stops, the level at which you achieve it can be quite high sometimes. It would be nice if this was lowered, and/or there was a depletable item that could mitigate failure (compare to Thieving's Dodgy necklace).

[modest lichen]

They did mention a rework for graceful to prevent agility course falls

It was alongside the other agility changes iirc

Specifically regarding the run energy part

[quartz quail]

Yeah I did like the idea of Graceful preventing Agility course falls.

Unsure if everyone wants Graceful to be moved into that reward space.

I will add that sometimes it's really annoying when an Agility shortcut can be failed. Especially if it damages you. I think the new Graceful idea didn't work on shortcuts, which I suppose is a bit disappointing.

For additional rewards, perhaps some kind of event could occur on rooftops, and if the player does a correct interaction with it, the player receives rewards.

Alternatively, could mimick the Wilderness Agility course for rewards. Though I don't know how viable that would be.

[modest lichen]

I was fine with it since it was basically a buff

[limpid torrent]

I'm more than happy w graceful just giving more marks when equipped tbh anything but the current way it works

[carmine verge]

For shortcuts, you should just stop failing those at a reasonable level

With or without graceful

[near flicker]

I'm honestly not sure if you're just missing my point on purpose or what. Having options is nice. Have you ever tried to be social in game while hanging out at ardy knight? Or taking a drink of water? You don't ever even have to use it, but if it were there you could take a small rest while still continuing to get xp at a slower rate. This is a quality of life idea solicitation thread , but it sounds like you don't believe your character should get 2 xp drops without 2 clicks. So I propose removing other afk methods for other skills. Is this the same reaction you had to forester's campfires? You can afk firemaking, a traditionally one action per 2 clicks skill, for lower xp rates.

[cerulean ferry]

Most actual new players aren't going to go bang out the efficient quest order, they will do the low level grinds.

As far as I've seen, experienced players don't mind questing to skip the early game, especially since most of the 1-30 grinds are a matter of an hour or two anyways

[cerulean ferry]

Again, IMO osrs has a quests rewards baked into its DNA, and I think that's a good thing. Helm of Neit, barrows gloves.

I'm not saying every boss drop should become a quest reward, but specifically untradable unlocks I'd expect at least 1 to given at the quest reward screen

If we're really dead set that you have to prove you can kill the post quest version, make it a 1kc drop

It's not that 50KC is some impossible task, it's that the quests feel like they're lacking as is

Another good example is the ring of shadows, which by the time someone can do DT2, they're most likely going to have the dag king rings

And then even it's teleport options are locked behind boss drops!

[opaque fossil]

shrug

like someone else said in this thread and used as an excuse

"it's an option"

i personally have a quest cape without any dks rings on my uim

If we're really dead set that you have to prove you can kill the post quest version, make it a 1kc drop
and i disagree with this

it's not "proving you can kill the post-quest version"

it's that it takes long if you can only get 1 kill, and takes far less time if you can last for long trips

it's a separate reward not a "you did the quest here you go for free" lol

i think at most, maybe give an option to skip one of the boss' very short grinds by offering one of the 4 dt2 tablets upon quest completion

but that should be the absolute most in that regard

[cerulean ferry]

Quests rewards being, "congrats, you unlocked the ability to go do this grind!" is a lame departure from part of the charm of OSRS, IMO.

Imagine if the fire cape/inferno cape were made degradable. "Well it's a BiS cape, it should come with some upkeep cost"

[opaque fossil]

fire/infernal aren't quest rewards though

is a lame departure from part of the charm of OSRS, IMO.
and this isn't "that" new

[boreal plume]

The issue with quest rewards being so powerful is it power creeped gear progression on actual valueable drops.

[opaque fossil]

helm of neitiznot is like

[boreal plume]

ring of shadows is a great item for anyone on a budget, its 2 max hits to my ursine chainmace when doing venenatis

[opaque fossil]

a fairly common starter/early game item to go for

[boreal plume]

I was surprised brimstone ring heald any value after shadows came out lol

[opaque fossil]

would be like saying well fremmy exiles should just give you the neitiznot faceguard

even though that's obviously a solidly midgame item

[opaque fossil]

noob trap for mage gear p much

like how archers ring was still "valuable" before dt2

and like how pegasians and rangers are "valuable"

only because of rarity and idiots buying it p much

[vivid onyx]

I will never be selling my pegs under the copium they will buff them down the line

[boreal plume]

I think most people just use it for death matching

[vivid onyx]

[crystal summit]

Not anymore 💀

[flint juniper]

Our thread has drifted far from actual QoL suggestions and K voth shows us the light of more colored hitsplats

[peak tundra]

Nezzy also has the same str bonus as a zerker helm so it’s not that much of an insane item to get

Ring of Shadows is barely a gear item, it’s a utility and teleport item more than anything

[frail karma]

what? Ring of Shadows basically bins brimstone lol which midgamers used all the time

[peak tundra]

Brimstone ring has always been useless except when it didn’t lose a maxhit at Vorkath

If midgame people were using it, they were well and truly duped

Especially when B ring was already cheaper

[uncut dragon]

In addition to combat and gathering, there should be an adventure path for processing skills and one for the other miscellaneous skills thatdon't fit into a neat category anywhere. It's one thing to catch a bunch of fish and chop some logs, but have the player make a few pies and arrows to show them what those resources are for. That kind of thing.

[summer olive]

Can we get an update to ruins of camdozaal? The drops for golem are weak. Get ride of tin and copper, mind golem and up. Since there are no coins or sellable items, can we get more shards or something making training better. I love the mace, and want to train but low drops + lost time waking each golem up kills the dps. Not a fan of the vault, but some people like it. Can we trade the shards for something else like xp or more rune cores?

[quartz quail]

Personally I'd love if getting the rune cores from the golems were actually worth it. I think right now, it's so slow that there's not really much point.

[fossil token]

rune cores are cool, but the droprate for them is too bad for how much you'd want

like maybe just make them a guaranteed drop, 1 core per golem also makes sense

[crystal summit]

Can we make it so that if you talk to your pets they tell you what KC/XP you got it at? I'm assuming the game knows when we got them and it's just hidden ?

[limpid torrent]

That's anything but early/midgame qol lol but it would be nice

[crystal summit]

It's hard on the mind to remember those kinda things, big QoL (trolling btw), they did say frustrations 😂

[languid panther]

i feel like we need a more consistent teleport to the port sarim area

although it kinda wouldnt be old school at all

[lusty jetty]

That would devalue the farming upgrade for the spirit tree there though

[crystal summit]

And devalue lumby ring

[languid panther]

well its an area you pass a lot early game so kinda would make sense to have an early game transport there

[crystal summit]

Amulet of glory is close, keep poh in remmy otherwise

[quartz quail]

With the Arceuus spellbook teleporting to a lot of graveyards, I'm a little surprised there wasn't a teleport to the graveyard by Rimmington church

[uncut dragon]

Ratcatchers minigame teleport

Not related to Port Sarim tele... but why are there no temporary boosts to firemaking other than the cape and stews? There's no pyromaniac's brew, potion of inflammability, or anything else available to early or midgamers. I'm thinking it would have to be oil based rather than water based, and it may involve burning something (ashes, ground burnt foods, etc) as well as a bruma leaf? Anyway it would be nice to have something along those lines.

[limpid harness]

Didn't they mention with sailing that there would be new port teleports?

Or at least one to port sarim

I think there is no fire making boost because there isn't a ton of content that needs it tbh

Unlike other skills where you need to use the boost for one off crafts or something

Most fire making content is just more firemaking

[red pike]

Hey a consistent +3 firemaking boost would be nice for shades

[limpid harness]

Not a ton of useful unlocks

Having done way too many shades

The amount of time you'll "save" using a +3 won't be worth it

Just get 95 and save the inventory space

[uncut dragon]

True, but there are occasional times during a quest or for a diary when you have to light something up

[limpid harness]

If we got more of the salt braizers I could see it

[uncut dragon]

I'm also thinking it could be a use for all those burnt meats

Like maybe eating a burnt meat gives you a +1

Collectors would hate the idea, but those people are weird anyway.

It's not a huge upgrade, but that's the point of this poll: little things to help out the n00bs.

[limpid torrent]

It'd devalue my ship only without thieving only ultimate ironman series w the goal being sailing
I'd rather have something more consistent than pest control tp tbh tbf amulet of the eye should be something you get after 10 clears of gotr and that'd fit in well for that too imo

[languid panther]

thats true, not sure why that amulet isnt unlocked ealier

[red pike]

I just wish I could enter the portal out of gotr to the wizard tower from behind

[crystal summit]

"d:i:s"

Or necklace of passage

[uncut dragon]

Again... Rat Pits minigame teleport. Choose the Wily Cats option. It drops you right outside Gerrant's fishing shop in Port Sarim.

[lusty jetty]

When you frame it like this, I’m actually more on board. Maybe to avoid devaluing the spirit tree and explorers ring, the teleport would be FAR south port sarim, so it would still be a long run to the farming patch up north

It’s a very common area during early game so easier access has a lot of value

[uncut dragon]

So... basically Mudskipper Point?
A-I-Q?

[lusty jetty]

I’m thinking more like a teleport to port sarim jail. Maybe you teleport into a cell and it requires a low thieving level to pick the lock and get out

[peak tundra]

Well, let me tell you a thing

The Port Sarim Jail via Shantay is already faster to get to Port Sarim than running from the Lumbridge Castle xd :)

[lusty jetty]

Well shit! I didn’t know about this! I’m looking into it now. That’s actually really funny.

Buuuut it would be nicer if a mid-level player didn’t have to run all the way to shantay to get sent to jail though. They won’t have the agility to exit the back of the al kharid palace from the glory teleport. At that point it’s still faster to glory to draynor or POH to rimm and run over

Maybe we’re overthinking this and Rimmington is close enough since near all low and mid level players have a POH there

[uncut dragon]

Yes... and as I've said a few times, the Ratcatchers tele drops you off in the heart of Port Sarim.