#Increased Freeze Counterplay

102 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

fair arch
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PvP revolves completely around freeze/holding effect, because of how strong it is to prevent your opponent from moving. Whether in a PvP minigame like Soul Wars or PvP/Pk in the Wilderness, if you dont have the option to freeze or holding effect, you are at a major disadvantage.

I feel like it is not a problem that this mechanic exists, but I do think the counterplay to it feels very lacking, as it comes down to just RNG if your opponent doesnt catch the freeze, and you do. This issue is exacerbated by the fairly extreme duration of the holding effects.
Of course you can lower the chance of getting frozen by wearing high magic defence gear, but such gear is very heavily tailored to ranged gear, and doesnt make the chances low enough. Mithril and adamant seeds also exist, but their effect is mostly useful only if the opponent steps underneath the frozen player.

I would like to see increased counterplay in any form. Maybe we could get an antifreeze potion that either lowers the duration of the holding effect, or simply breaks you free. Maybe there could be a new specific piece of gear that protects you by either lowering the chance you get afflicted by it, or by lowering the duration. Maybe even both gear and a potion, with the ability to stack like the antidragonfire shield and the antifire potion. Maybe protect from magic should halve the duration of holding effects, like it does to teleblock. Maybe someone else can post a better idea below.

I know id be more likely to enjoy PvP in this game if I was allowed to move more.

river karma
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Believe it or not, freeze counterplay is freezing. Just like how indicated how strong it is, you catching a freeze and understanding where to walk if they seed is the equivalent of you getting out free every single time.

tender steppe
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Game already offers enough freeze counterplay

urban sky
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[[mithril seeds]]

haughty flameBOT
novel scroll
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Seeds and knowing how to control gap. If you go beyond 8 squares freeze is undone. You can also time your own freezes to theirs as counterplay.

Ways to break freeze etc would ruin the game. I could live with a temporary immunity effect if you essentially stunned yourself for it, as getting speared (stunned) already grants a small immunity after.

I still wouldn’t like the concept, but I could probably live with it. I think we are better off not messing with freeze mechanics.

river karma
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Immunity already exists to an extent. They can't chain freeze you and I can't see any self-stun being worth it unless it outright gives you an insane duration of immunity, which you could then just pre-stun yourself.

errant sundial
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This is from a not dedicated pker but is there any reason why mage pray doesn't reduce the effects of spells?

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I'm surprised something like how when tb is prayed the duration is halved, shouldn't other spells follow that same principle

candid dock
errant sundial
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I guess the idea is too heavily favoring the player who wants to disengage

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Camp melee tank gear, hold protect from magic and hope for the best

candid dock
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Yeah, the track record is to nerf tanking in general

errant sundial
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Makes sense considering what also happened with dragon hide

candid dock
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Dragon hide, bulwark, justiciar, etc

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They try really hard for your only options to be "fight" or "die"

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Or sometimes "fight and die anyway"

delicate cove
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This may be an incredibly uninformed take but… what if there was a spell that created a “field” around you in a 3x3 square with you in the center that would damage someone slightly one time if they enter to melee spec you?

candid dock
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Vengetribution

delicate cove
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Nothing super punishing, but something to slightly counter someone melee rushing after a freeze

candid dock
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Doing that would erase freeze-logging, which would have players in all camps up in arms

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Actually, it depends on the spell book said spell would land in somewhat

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But I imagine it would still be extremely unpopular

delicate cove
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Hmmm alternate option - increase the power of vengeance if you are frozen

river karma
# candid dock Dragon hide, bulwark, justiciar, etc

Justi is just a scapegoat imo. It won't save you and if it means one less thing for non-wildy goers to cope about, let it work in pvp.

At the same time, to not be inconsistent, let tridents/shadow work in pvp too 😂

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Because "cONSiStEncY" over balance.

errant sundial
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Tbh pvp, really the wilderness in general is one of the LAST thing that has consistency

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So many own rules you have to get used to smh

river karma
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Because back then people cared somewhat more about keeping nasty tech out.

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tridents weren't allowed because u can mage auto + freeze folks

errant sundial
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Honestly if anything needs a nerf it's the defenses on torva but nobody is ready for that conversation

candid dock
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I am so on board with letting shadow work in PvP kekw

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Not because it would be good, but because it would be hilarious

errant sundial
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Shadow doesnt????

river karma
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yeah, u don't actually have counterplay.

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because if u 64'd someone and then run up with max melee voidwaker

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u only need 57 spec to kill them

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on the same tick

errant sundial
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Oh

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That shadow

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I was thinking shadow spells lmfao

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I'm like what do you mean

river karma
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That's why tridents generally aren't allowed

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  1. not spellbook locked
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  1. stacks
errant sundial
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Yeah that's fair

river karma
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but if people want to bitch about how dhide/justi/bp work differently, then fix trident too

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pvmers will cry lol

scenic cypress
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thats fair but also literally the first time ive hears it explained why tridents are banned lol

errant sundial
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Honestly I wish they adjusted the ancient stuff upgrade

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Feel like I never see anyone use it

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Which is crazy cuz it literally amps the ancient spell book

river karma
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also, black dhide being mass produceable should never be as good as clues/boss uniques

scenic cypress
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black dhide is still pretty good lol

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and its nice for god dhide to be a real ipgrade

river karma
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masori may have increased the ceiling, but pre-nerf dhide being 85% of current masori at 1/100000 the cost is insane

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if u didn't know, the dhide nerf only made it 5% more likely for a freeze to land lol

candid dock
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For the record, no opinion was given on my part, Aces asked a question and I answered it

scenic cypress
scenic cypress
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but complaining about complainers is offtopic I guess

river karma
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this was pre-adjustment

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Assuming they weren't brewing down to 40 magic

candid dock
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Justified tank nerfs, but nerfs to tanking nonetheless

river karma
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pkers generally don't even bother when im wearing an ely or dinhs

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they just walk away lol

scenic cypress
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anyway in terms of like, increasing freeze counterplay with magic or w/e i feel it runs into the same issue as anything trying to fix big parts of PvP where PvP is really just built on a spaghetti mess of half intended mechanics that will be abused if you let them be

river karma
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I don't mind them increasing the immunity after the freeze wears off

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to like 8 ticks

candid dock
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Freeze immunity is probably the least offensive vector

river karma
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it's currently like 3s

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or 5t

candid dock
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As in, most people would be least outraged by it

scenic cypress
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freezes being so central kinda sucks and so does logging out being so important but if you wanna fix that it feels like you'd have to redesign the entire wildy

errant sundial
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Remembering like, spec orb didn't work, the tp delay especially feels bad but like predator prey concept is so hard to balance

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And they have to make lucrative rewards otherwise predator players starve cuz why go wildy when I can beat a dragon piñata

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But then low reqs+ high money is botted to the moon, etc. I'm rambling but the wildy is definitely a whacky environment

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Literally just feels like it's own rules at this point

river karma
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they can do it organically by having monsters show up to tb u for 15s

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or 30s

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and then give u a 15-30s immunity after that

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but it is crucial for everything below 35-40 wildy line

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instant tp with cctv alts for wildy bosses is busted.

errant sundial
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I understand why it exists unfortunately as people find more efficient ways to mitigate risk

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I haven't played with alts cuzi cba'd to check but I guess that's my fault for not investing a bond for peace of mind

tender steppe
river karma
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Even against near tick perfect pkers, they still have physical limitations where you can freeze them outside a brush of trees and then play ring-around-a-rosie.

As long as you aren't sleeping when they arrive, and understand roughly how to survive, it's an extremely high chance of survival even if you don't trade hits back.

tender steppe
fair arch
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id like to point out that the difficulty of escape in wildy isnt the point of this post

its how everything in all forms of PvP revolves around freeze
& that it isnt very fun to not be allowed to move for upwards of 20 seconds, especially because the literal only thing that you can do to prevent freezes is get good RNG.

I think all PvP could benefit if their was more counterplay to freezing, so there would be more options than the 1 optimal strategy. Minigames like soul wars might also be more interesting if there was any other strategy available than freeze and pile the frozen guy. I think straight up 1v1 like in duel arena would be more fun too if it didnt revolve around who catches the freeze first, and if you were allowed to move for more than 30% of the time.

hybrid halo
hybrid halo
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I don't see it changing unless they introduce brand new mechanics or concepts that apply game wide (like how burn is slowly being introduced)

fair arch
hybrid halo
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There is nothing stopping them from making minigame specific mechanics to change it where necessary

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Like how dmm had unfreeze sigils

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But for the main game , freezes are vital for you to get some momentum in a NH situation

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Unless you want to cap the amount of food people can use or remove teleports while being attacked so that both sides still have a fair chance

fair arch