QoL update - Make all ess from pouches be used instantly when runecrafting.

[turbid ferry]

Not QoL, a very large buff to the overall intensity-reward balance of a method is not QoL. Also if this works for combo runes, it would dramatically cut down the charges of binding necklaces that get used, which is a very significant change as well.

[dense birch]

Not to mention the massive hike in XP rates unnecessarily. If you dont want to click a fair amount whilst crafting, go get the colossal pouch or done use the pouches. its only a couple of clicks every trip. Tis a point and click game afterall right?

[elfin oracle]

This help mobile a lot too but I don’t think Jagex allow this to be happen maybe another three year…

[upper pike]

Is it really unnecessarily? Runecraft is a slow skill in general - but in particular, the original training loop of going to altars is arguably quite uncommon now.

I'd argue that focusing on making the original training loop feel better - including something like making pouches less click intensive and thus the exp faster - could be a good improvement to the skill.

It is a point and click game, but with Runecraft, half the time you're already pointing and clicking due to how much running you have to do.

[upper pike]

If necessary, I'm pretty sure a calculation could be made to work out how many charges you would have used previously.

[turbid ferry]

2-3 charges per combo rune trip rn depending on pouches

It's not rocket science

Pouches are satisfying to do right and it's a direct feedback cost-reward

I think rc is an enjoyable skill to train as it already exists, and without tick-perfect pouch use I would say it's less enjoyable honestly.

[upper pike]

Exactly, so it wouldn't cut down the charges of binding necklaces that get used. You just apply this amount instead.

[upper pike]

Fair enough, though this is subjective.

Whenever I've heard players talk about Runecraft, it's generally that it's not enjoyable, and this particular feature request does crop up a lot.

[visual plover]

I believe if rc would be impacted in terms of "QOL" to any degree, it would most likely come through the premise of loadouts being implemented into the game.

Rather anything that promotes the "flow state" of skilling and addressing what makes something less enjoyable without blending skills together. (The biggest offender I would say would be repairing pouches as an arbitrary stop gap)

[upper pike]

Yes, I would say that essence pouches needing to be constantly repaired is another thing that makes general runecrafting quite tedious. Especially when you compare it to other more modern OSRS pouches in the game.

It seems to be good for those wanting the highest exp rates, since it provides more click intensity; but for the average player, I think it's quite a poor feature.

[kind kelp]

Ye truee, zmi with pure essence is like 70k am hour at 90? Pretty slow for how bad gp hour it is, i know there always but issue, but it just so slow

[true epoch]

Tbh, it would actually make runecrafting just a tiny bit less frustrating. The skill is actually absolutely hated by the whole community, can't see why this tiny little thing would increase the 50k exp rates ''massively'' as you say. It would just be a QOL and be a tiny little buff and make it a tiny bit less aids to train.....

Just make the skill better already, stop with the nonsense

[slow jetty]

RC can go up to 100k+ XP/hr these days, adding this would be a very unnecessary buff to the rates for no reason other than players hate actually doing any skill that's not fully afk

The skill has been improved massively over the years, via things you earn or unlock that incrementally increase your rates naturally as your account progresses. This would just be a flat buff to everyone.

[viral dune]

Massive hike of exp? You mean like making a shortcut to the rune alter that increased the nature/h by twice?

While i do agree with you, it is a point and click game, i think we should try and remove things that are bad. I believe emptying pouches every single time to be a bad idea from the beginning. If it had been like i suggest from the very beginning, we would see no one wanting to update it to todays state.

We talking about 1 sec here right? That would increase a slow skill by 3% exp/h ? and give players alot more smoothfull gameplay. I would go as far as to say this would pass a poll with 80% and it would make rc alot more joyful to do.

But hey, what do i know, i only play this game.

[neat lava]

There is a Runelite plugin that switches the left click fill option with left click empty whenever you are at an altar. I feel like having native support for that in the Official/Mobile client would be more than enough QoL

[glad steppe]

you mean the buff which can only be utilised by people with a diary cape?

anyway i wopuld say rc is fairly quick nowadays

even just casual small group gort is like 75k xp/hr lol

[upper pike]

I'd guess for most players though, 75k exp/hr is on the slow side, when you compare it to the exp rates of other skills, and compare the skill levels those rates appear.

[viral dune]

Thats the one, seeing as our mod Roqs was afraid of a exp increase per hour

[glad steppe]

this would affect p much everyone, not just people who took the time to get a diary cape

although ig diary cape reqs aren't that high

[glad steppe]

i would say anything above 40-50k xp/hr is fairly quick

[viral dune]

We are talking like a second off a trip that takes what, a min?

[glad steppe]

most people doing casual rc are not taking 2 game ticks to empty/craft all ess in pouches lol

[viral dune]

Dunno how you rc but thats how its done by most

[upper pike]

I think you are probably not the average casual player (just a guess though).

Because something like 50k exp/hr, that's around level 50 Runecraft. But for something like Thieving, level 50 would give you around 70k exp/hr already.

[glad steppe]

i would say i'm fairly casual

comparing xp rates for different skills is stupid imo

skills aren't the same

they don't need to have the same xp rate

one skill having absurd xp rates doesnt mean others need to have it too

karambwans at 50 cooking is 185k xp/hr

so what

and im talking afk bwans not even 1t

[viral dune]

Its like the mining update, how broken was that not compared to what im proposing here? We talking a slight 3% buff

[glad steppe]

where does 3% come from

[viral dune]

We want to buff some skills but making the ones that are the hardest and least loved alittle bit easier ? No thanks

[glad steppe]

ok lol rc is nowhere near the hardest of skills wtf

now that's just copium

[upper pike]

I think it actually is pretty fair to compare the skill rates between skills.

Sure, there's the whole click intensity/exp rate/reward that you have to balance out. But I think most players want to be able to train any skill reasonably, and have any skill have reasonable rewards:

• If a skill is fast, but not very rewarding, players will want to see updates that improve the reward factor of the skill (e.g. Firemaking)
• If a skill is rewarding, but quite slow, players will want to see updates that improve the rates of the skill (e.g. Mining)

[viral dune]

Yeah? Which ones are the hardest ? Agility and rc have ALWAYS been the most dreaded

[glad steppe]

casual slayer is much worse than both of those 2 combined lol

[viral dune]

No way, slayer is fun

[pastel musk]

its just really monotone

[glad steppe]

i said hardest, not fun

and if we're going by fun

i would say agility is one of the more enjoyable skills

[viral dune]

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Money_making_guide/Crafting_nature_runes_through_the_Abyss here you can sit and click on calc and you will see what a second or two does to exp rates

[viral dune]

minority

[pastel musk]

sepulchre is fun

[glad steppe]

minority

[pastel musk]

idk what else yall want from a skill

[upper pike]

I also find Slayer slow, but that doesn't really mean I think Agility or Runecraft shouldn't have updates to improve them.

[glad steppe]

rc has plenty of fast xp methods

if anything i think rc is a bit low intensity for those xp rates

making it even lower is a bit silly

[full light]

Slayer is slow, but you’re also simultaneously training other skills and gaining supplies while doing so, no?

[upper pike]

I'll be honest, I don't see how this can be the case. Of all the skills, Runecraft might arguably be the one that has the most running involved, save for Agility (where running around makes more sense).

[glad steppe]

how is running high intensity

[upper pike]

You have to click often?

[glad steppe]

no you dont

zeah bloods is p much 1 click from ess to altar

zmi is p much 1 click

gotr is much more clicking but you're also not "spending most of your time running"

lavas is barely any clicking esp with glory/rote

the most click intensive part of rc isn't even done by casuals

which is 1.5t daeyalt

[upper pike]

@glad steppe Problem is, you've described basically all the minigames or minigame-esque things in Runecraft.

The minigames are kind of fine. It's the core part of the skill which isn't.

[glad steppe]

zeah bloods isnt a minigame

lavas isnt a minigame

neither is mind altar for pet

[upper pike]

This is essentially minigame-esque, due to the game loop, and the fact it exists in a single location.

[glad steppe]

that would make true bloods a minigame too

[upper pike]

Not really? It's part of the core of the skill.

[glad steppe]

?

how is zeah bloods not a core part of the skill

[upper pike]

The fact you mine essence, infuse it, runecraft it, then do all that again, all within a fairly closed section of the map, that isn't present elsewhere.

It's similar to how Thieving's Stealing Artefacts, you wouldn't consider the "core" part of Thieving

[glad steppe]

true bloods - you mine essence in morytania, you craft runes with it in morytania, in a fairly closed section of the map

what

[upper pike]

Whereas this, follows the same game loop as other true runic altars.

[glad steppe]

are bonfires a firemaking minigame

[upper pike]

You can make a Blood rune from Pure essence, or Daeyalt essence, at the true Blood altar. But at the false Blood altar, you need to use the Dark essence fragments - something you can only obtain from mining close by.

[upper pike]

The Forester's campfire?

[slow jetty]

Yeah this is a ridiculous argument. You're not just asking for qol anymore you're legitimately justifying a straight XP/hr buff that would apply to both low level and top level methods

There's numerous 1 click altar methods, emptying a pouch is a trivial amount of clicks, and the skill itself is not that slow lol

[upper pike]

True. But the skill it somewhat bottlenecked behind the single activity it has. So if the focus is training on Slayer specifically, it feels quite slow.

[kind kelp]

Whaat, runecrafting got huge nerfed years after years, what you mean? Once a time runecrafting was best moneymaking in osrs, now its like 1/10 of the best money making

Its litterly thrash

[signal knot]

You know you can 1 tick pouches right? It's almost like having it all done at once, but you actually have to be quick with your clicks to achieve it

[kind kelp]

yheaa such a bad mechanic

and boring

[signal knot]

not really, it's very satisfying, and takes the tiniest bit of skill to do

[viral dune]

Yeah exactly, so this QoL would barely move the exp/h for a great improvement in runecrafting

[signal knot]

Dude, an actual mod who works on the game already told you why it's a bad idea 😂

Increasing xp for every single method is nuts. Even with 1t pouches, you really need a colossal, which requires 85 rc minimum

[upper pike]

I'd be interested to see how much of an increase it would be. If it's only slightly, personally I don't think it would be an issue, even if it's across the board. If it's a significant amount, then sure, I guess that's an issue.

Even then though, you could make the runecrafting be delayed automatically, allowing both methods to co-exist. A bit like how cleaning grimy herbs works.

[lean granite]

All I want is mobile Runecrafting to not be so awful. Without menu entry swapper it is such a task to hold press and fill multiple rune pouches or the colossal multiple times and the same with removing it.

The default left click / single tap for all rune pouches should be fill when in bank mode and empty everywhere else.

[weak ginkgo]

I think that would make the most sense, make it less annoying but still have the negative aspect to it.

Yeah from a mobile gamer perspective, its actually trash

[turbid ferry]

I’d support a 2 or 3t delay on auto emptying the pouch to re-craft, but not using it all at once.

Also RC is a top 3 skills for sure

Very satisfying and enjoyable

And wraths and true blood are decent moneymakers

[stuck marsh]

The Nature Altar shortcut was a relatively limited impact and didn't impact the overall RC XP rates, and was relatively decent requirements to do so.

All-in-one dump would increase every other method by 10-20% easily, since most players aren't 1ting the pouches. At GOTR, this would be pretty big.

[cursive thunder]

I had the same arguments when I post this, people are too stubborn never gonna win this one

[turbid ferry]

To me the distinction is trust claiming this is just QoL is like saying that you should be able to tick manip without having to actually perform the action in your inventory. Ever if it doesn’t change xp rates, it still needs to be acknowledged as a buff, not QoL, and in this case, it does actually in fact affect xp rates, especially because most casual players are not tick perfect.

It all goes back to intensity vs. reward

[viral dune]

The negative ones are usually in minority, but they voice their view the highest

[turbid ferry]

Is it really negative to say that I like the way the game is currently balanced?

[viral dune]

I suppose you are right, a small buff and a big QoL you could argue would be more accurate

[slow jetty]

The "negative" ones are agreeing with the jmod who said this would be broken

[signal knot]

are you saying that an employee who literally works on the game, and things you've described, is negative? He's correct, it would just arbitrarily increase all RC methods by an unbalanced amount

[weak ginkgo]

I still believe looking at it from a mobile perspective, with a delay, is pretty important. Maybe not a priority, but important.

Just to put another example as to how delay could work - similar to enchanting jewelry
It's objectively faster to click the spell, click item in your inventory, then click the spell and repeat
But if that was the only way to enchant jewelry, i'd think that's pretty awful
Instead, they have an option to allow you to afk the entire inventory, despite the fact that it takes longer

This idea could be similar to that, for the normal client / mobile client users. You roll up to the altar and click it, 4 tick delay (or whatever number ends up making sense), then you make your next inventory of ess, 4 tick delay, next inventory of ess - processed in 1 click instead of needing to empty.

Using the "runelite has a plugin" argument here is pretty weak imo - there is definitely a way to make this feel better without making it OP

[turbid ferry]

I’d even be fine with as fast as 2t if we are talking about auto delays, but 3t makes a lot of sense too

[viral dune]

Great, a delay on the ess being used means we dont have to empty the pouches. Cool. All for it. I didn't see this as a massive deal when we updating all kinds of skill exp/h left and right. Agility gets a +10k /h buff, mining here you go take a 20k buff. A small improvement on RC? Who am i to ask for such a thing Lol. Sorry my bad

You want afk mining? Take 7 min for a click, times that on a t9 star for a solid 63 min afk timer. Sweet baby jesus are people defending the small things nowdays

[signal knot]

No one is personally attacking you..... we're leaving our feedback on a suggestion you posted...

[viral dune]

I understand, i just fail to see this point of view when literally all skills are being buffed. A pretty small buff with a major QoL update on one of the games probably worst skill on the other hand would not be liked upon? Have a hard time seeing the majority being against it

[turbid ferry]

I mean if it were up to a vote I’s vote no on the xp increases too if you want to go there

[signal knot]

the updates to methods you referenced did not include making changes to core gameplay. The agility changes were to buff actually useless agility methods like poll and relekka, and the mining changes were to make an item you get after a 20+ hour grind that were absolutely useless, useful

[turbid ferry]

And they intentionally left the top level un-increased for agility

[viral dune]

The big pouch is not a grind to go for? Ok maybe i missed the mining and agility exp rates, i thought the meta ways got buffed overall from low to high

I am loving relleka btw, really nice update

[signal knot]

no meta methods got buffed. granite did but it was nerfed because it was an oversight. What you're suggesting is a buff to EVERY RC method in the game

[signal knot]

me too its a very nice buff, love the relekka course

[turbid ferry]

Nothing at all changed about the most efficient rates for mining or agility- Sepulcher floor 5 and 3t4g/efficient group VM received no changes to xp rates

[viral dune]

The hardcore players would have a very small buff on this tho? how quick do they empty and go?

[signal knot]

in which context do you mean

[turbid ferry]

He means like one-click rc again

[viral dune]

The absolute nerdiest of ways to rc, how much would this impact? its 2t?

[signal knot]

hardcore players who already 1t empty pouches would not receive any buff

[viral dune]

Yeah so the Meta way wouldnt be impacted

[turbid ferry]

It would be 2 ticks still but yeah the more significant part is the buff to the intensity-vs-reward balance

[viral dune]

Just helps the regular players to get some better rates

I think people miss the whole part where RC is not great because it is intense

[turbid ferry]

RC is enjoyable :)

[viral dune]

Its good money and good runes, it doesnt need to have the greasiest of ways to get the best exp/h

I for one would still rc nats at 26k/h, i wouldnt go and do fires all the sudden

[turbid ferry]

Efficient rc is far less intensive than efficient methods for literally every other skill

[viral dune]

Would this be a good QoL if there was no buff to exp?

[turbid ferry]

imo no tbh

If you want low intensity methods they already exist

[viral dune]

I cant argue with people like this, i mean i seriously can not. Have a nice day

[turbid ferry]

And like I said the intensity bar isn't even that high

One comment I would make though, going back to the initial post, is that there is no reason to say that "filling makes sense" to take multiple actions, but not using the ess itself. If anything the filling is way more intensive than the actual emptying and using.

[viral dune]

We have this rule in Sweden when you drive a car, if you are overtaking you need to use the left blinker, but going back to the right lane you do not. IT is an expected thing to do. Bit of the same here, if you bring full pouches you intend to use them.

[stuck marsh]

There's a blatantly obvious difference between QOL and a buff. Skilling rebalance was supposed to be a rebalance, not a gamewide buff across the board.

Look at the recent left-click construction change - People have been asking for that for ages because it was a Jagex-enforced limitation, where Jagex insisted you couldn't be able to left click, despite Mahogany Homes have that exact functionality and everything else in the game you could manipulate freely. They decided that it ultimately wasn't a good hill to die on and made that change because the peak XP rates wouldn't change, just the floor. Same for the Nature Altar changes. What you're asking for is an XP increase, so it's not really a QOL at that point, nor is it an enforced detriment inconsistent with everything else.

[stuck marsh]

Etube here was being very reasonable (might need more than 3t btw) and two dudes derailing the conversation with "omg I got flamed in the past, everyone is being negative" and "everyone is negative" because they disagree with you.

[true epoch]

Imma leave it with this: I think it's a great idea to craft runes from all essence (including the ones in your pouches) in the same tick.

Would it be a dramatic and game changing QOL? No.
Would it increase the exp rates a bit? Yes, but runecrafting deserves a tiny bit higher exp rates.
GoTr is about 60k/h, would probably end up at like 65k/h? Thank you.

Thanks for the suggestion, i love it!

[kindred bison]

+1 if there was a delay making it slower xp than 1t emptying

reward max intensity offer slower more casual alternatives

[pastel musk]

i dont think you understand what the word qol means, its not supposed to be a 10% buff in xp rates

[slow jetty]

It is absolutely a massive qol and straight up buff to rc.

[true epoch]

QOL means quality of life, not having to empty the sacks every time you craft at the altar would be a quality of life improvement.

[slow jetty]

People train the skill in ways other than gotr as well btw
And it's pretty massive
And also a jmod has already said it'd be massive and broken

[true epoch]

This is not correct tho. It won't be a massive and broken update. Cant find any reason it would be.

[slow jetty]

It would massively lower the apm of the skill entirely, at all levels, at all rates?

That's pretty broken.

Imagine if prayer training used all your bones on the altar at once.

Do you think that's something reasonable?

[pastel musk]

i think hed love that

seems to be the norm these days, to see skills as something youre entitled to max

[slow jetty]

Thankfully the jmods don't agree

Absolutely crazy takes to be like "Oh yeah let me just remove half of the clicks of this skill because I'm lazy lol"

You want to add a significant delay to it, fine, sure. To the same degree automatic bone usage on altars is slowed, that'd be fair. But all in the same tick? That's laughably busted.

[true epoch]

I just enjoy the game and want to provide meaningful thoughts and support what i think is good ideas! 🙂

[pastel musk]

honestly that would be kinda cool

[slow jetty]

And I'm against them adding any automation to rc

But if they do

[pastel musk]

but lets be real it would basically just be making the game play itself

[slow jetty]

The only kind I'd be even moderately not vehemently against would be if it was extremely slow to auto use the essence

Yeah it's just turning every type of rc into blood rc lmao

There's already an afk rc method

Go do bloods!

[pastel musk]

3 tick delay or something between each pouch emptying i guess would work but also just fucking click the pouch

[true epoch]

Perhaps you're right and the point here is that the skill in general is just not rewarding enough. Exp rates so low players can't even fathom leveling it.

Better to force players paying discord runners 10m gp/h just to avoid levelling it or touching the skill. Much better solution than a little QOL update right...

[pastel musk]

thats far cheaper than paying boosters in pvm content

[rugged mist]

How fast do u want the xp to be u can already get 100k xp hr at lavas and zmi with daeyalt

[kind kelp]

xD

so

what is the time getting deyalt

pvm essence is better then daeyalt

[rugged mist]

Its all afk though its like 3-4k an hr i believe

[true epoch]

I would rather have the community interact with the content and skills even if it forces QOL updates like ''craft all runes inc. the ones in pouches'' if it means that players stop buying services like ''runecrafting runners''.

To your question about dayalt essence, it takes a very long time to mine and improve the horrific exp rates by 30%?

[kind kelp]

yee

pure essence is just better xp

no one does runecrafting for gp anymore no?

well bots do

as i said before, runecrafting got nerfed

by every new content in teh game that gives million of gp hour

so just give it more xp

or give it more runes per hour

[slow jetty]

1.5t daeyalt is faster xp than just rc by itself, you gather it extremely fast

RC already is quite a few mil per hour at the high end

[kind kelp]

few mill

[slow jetty]

The rates are up to 100k+/hr without runners if being efficient

It's a fine skill

Compared to basically all non-combat related skills, it's got a variety of intensities for training + profitability + afk methods

[kind kelp]

no its not 100k xp an hour

[kind kelp]

ahh lavas

so 110k xp is high?

[slow jetty]

ZMI is 77k/hr without using Daeyalt and it's basically 30 seconds of running to the altar and then 5 clicks

[kind kelp]

for non profit

[slow jetty]

110k xp/hr is fine for a skill, yes.

3t4g is significantly more clicks per minute and is ~135k xp/hr for mining

If they added a method that's even more intense without alts than lava rc and it boosted up to similar rates, that'd also be fine.

[kind kelp]

ye true

i guess the xp is fine

but runecrafting itself is shit

"botting gp skill"