buff gmaul

[ripe swift]

dragon maul from tormented demons plz

[marble shard]

I am hijacking the original post with this post, as the original post got deleted by accident 🤦🏿‍♂️ .

Through rigorous discussion that took place in the comment section:
I am suggesting a new maul with the same identity as the current granite maul (with an attachment) but requiring a higher attack level with an increased accuracy.
I think it would be awesome for us PKers at the higher level brackets, to bring about a more satisfactory experience of the very activity we love to engage in, but also at the same time a way of protecting the lower level brackets from too strong weapons.

I think something that would be fitting for the theme would be "Revver's maul" dropped exclusively by the wilderness revenants .
Or as @ripe swift suggested, dragon maul from demonic gorillas!

[hollow rivet]

this again?

[fresh timber]

Buff elder maul first

[hollow rivet]

^

[prisma patio]

Unless you're talking something that makes the Gmaul into an item that's extremely expensive, hell no.

Gmaul is still a decent item. If you're using it for PK kills at 80 attack or above, there are significantly better options.

[marble shard]

I lurk around EU pvp worlds, come fight and see if you can kill me with better options. There's a reason why the GMaul is the KEY to balancing PvP, and to better differentiate the unique skill expressions between individuals which in turn increases the quality of life

do we want a battle between who can manipulate, gaslight and control the best to stand a remote chance of killing your opponent or who can eat the most efficient, execute killing blows, combat IQ and most willing to put in the work to practice

#communitydriven

honestly just seems impossible to go anywhere worthwhile with old school runescape, I can't be sitting here all day trying to accommodate everybody opinions to get an agreement, when I and many other elite pkers have keen insight on the topic. It's foolish.

[marble shard]

How can we create the best PvP experience based on the knowledge we have now and the real-world dynamics between two opponents.

[hollow latch]

Why does every pvp player devolve to this argument to defend their point

[grim dust]

where is the skill expression in one tick whip double maul or ags maul for 100+ dmg? its lierally just rolling a dice when you see a big xp drop lol

[marble shard]

Hi Kingz, good question. There's real loss & progress involved in this game, it gives an individual a real opportunity to stand on the words they speaks. There's something respectable and humbling about it in my opinion, and really puts into perspective who is willing to die on the hill they stand on and who is just spewing nonsense.

[hollow latch]

You don't need to do something in order to understand its mechanics

Like I don't need to pvp all day everyday to understand an accurate weapon that can double hit 35+, immediately after any weapon is OP

It's something that would impact NH and pvm too

Like nowhere in the suggestion do you explain why its needed , even though high accuracy specs exist

[marble shard]

I mean not to make you to feel like you don't matter, because you're not active pker. I appreciate all of your inputs as I believe our diverse perspective and insights shared here contribute signficantly to a more comprehensive view of the suggestion being made. I believe this collaborative approuch between all of us can provide valuable insights for Jagex and to help them in making sharper and more informed deicison that can benefit the entire gaming community.

I am learning as I go, but if I didn't take crap for the suggestion, I would've never been prompted to explain my position clearer and put into perspective some things I think is worth highlighting

Ultimately, it's up to Jagex to decide if this is something they are interested for their game, and it's they whom I am appealing to.

[marble shard]

This is a point I really want to answer, this is another very solid GEM to takeaway if I could pull it off. But how do I convey experience and this level of insight that could resonate with you, unless you yourself have some experience on the matter?

[marble shard]

I believe you are making a reference to the clip I posted in #achievements . See me and that guy had agreed to risk a certain amount and go at eachother. Naturally he is anticipating me to kill him through different means depending on the available angle (angler -> brew -> brew). He hits me for 41, leaving me at 64 hitpoints, because of this damage done unto me it puts an immense amount of pressure on me for my own chances of survivial, I take this opportunity to flip the situation upside down to decieve him into thinking I am eating (by drinking the sanfew, which in turn wont render my character unable to attack for 3 ticks, and also shows an animation of eating which gives him a false sense of security. At this point, I time my attack to match up with his retaliation, I whip him -> gmaul -> double click spec -> attempt to throw up vengeance(to stack up some more damage as he hits me at the same time) -> attack -> tripple eat to survive incase he catches on to the lie and survives and take advantage of my vulnerable position and get myself back to safety

[grim dust]

im not referencing anything you posted, im saying that theres nothing skillful about pressing double maul, its literally just a dice roll you can do nothing about and the inconsistency is intentional because of how sudden it is

[marble shard]

are you saying that there's no ways for the opponent to survive if i get the correct amount of rng?

[grim dust]

its possible if youre extremely fast or anticipate what theyre about to do, realistically 99% of people are going to die if they get hit by a large ags maul or whip double maul

because most people dont want to camp 99 aswell as having to worry about consistently being stacked out for that much, its not fun for anyone

that doesnt even take into account deep wildy where people arent in good defensive gear

where buffed maul would hit even harder

[marble shard]

Thank you. Then we disagree, that is the part I want to emphasize in our discussion. This is the direction I want us to head towards.

This is the envoirment us competitive pkers thrive in.

I am not appealing on behalf of the masses, most people do not enter wildy/pvp anyways, but for the ones that do. This is great.

[grim dust]

bruh im talking about 99% of pkers lol

[marble shard]

Would you like for Jagex to accomodate for the less ept pkers, how do you think that would affect the overall quality of life for PvP?

[hollow latch]

lol dw, im not sensitive enough for that. it just seems weird that whenever a pvm or skilling suggestion is challenged the person with the proposal can articulate why what they are suggesting is good to solve an exisiting problem.

when its a pvp suggestion it devolves to "well i pk and you dont so thats why im right"

[grim dust]

you think the quality of life for pvp would be better if everyone is camping green hp bar because at some point the other person will hit a large whip and insta double maul dice roll them for their hp bar?

[marble shard]

appreciate it king

[hollow latch]

explain what weapons are currently used and why they arent effective or skill based for the current bracket compared to the gmaul buff you are proposing. thats probably the simplest way to explain

[grim dust]

tbf thats literally the case with pures risk fighting rn

[hollow latch]

im sure many people have BH experience to some degree where Venge + AGS/Voidwaker/Abby dagger....etc was good enough at higher levels

[marble shard]

correct. It makes the most sense when my health is full, and I am striving towards keeping my health relevant aswell the opponent trying to do the same. SO I guess its a battle of who can do it best.

that's the defensive aspect of pking

now there's the offensive part of pking

[hollow latch]

and many saw how unbalanced stuff like abby dagger / Dbow and VLS are when accuracy gets too high

so if you could explain why GMaul > meta options would be good at higher level then it would help people see your POV

[marble shard]

armadyl godsword, granite maul, elder maul, dragon claws. but at the center of all these weapons, is the granite maul. armadyl godsword whack into granite maul, see if I hit a 50 - 45 - 45, you're dead unless you succesfully tripple eat. Reason why granite maul is essential is because, armadyl godsword can't one hit somebody from 99hp (good thing), so i need another waepon to be able to execute them properly. That last bit to execute them is what gives us players a chance to shine with our ability to react to the uncoming attack

[grim dust]

i suppose then we really just do disagree about whats more fun when it comes to pvp 🤷

[marble shard]

aye cheers 😄

[hollow latch]

is this considering Venge damage?

[marble shard]

that also plays a vital part

see if I meet an opponent who succesfully tripple eats

only way for me to kill him, is to stack him for 99hp, and for that I need vengeance. So if I am crafty enough, I can double maul, veng in the same tick as he attacks me and stack him out, rendering him unable to responde to it unless he catches unto it and decides to not attack on the same tick as Im unfolding all this on.

[hollow latch]

because 50-45-45 + a decent venge isnt liveable is it? especially if the 45-45 is very consistent

[hollow latch]

this is 140 damage.

if you are 99hp and tripple eat perfectly then you effecitvely have 155 hp. a venge over 15 in any of this would be a unstoppable death (assuming no random p neck)

so if the above becomes very likely everytime someone gets a hit of 50+ , is that really a good thing?

[grim dust]

unless you anticipate it and dont hit him

[marble shard]

we would have to do some math, 99hp -50-45-45 = -41 ( best case scenario he eats at the correct time leaving him at 15hp, if he made the mistake of hitting my vengeance for more than 20-25 it should kill him through the tripple eat

that brings me to the next point, not bringing out weaopns that hit TOO HARD. if someone is tripple consistently, they should be rewarded for it, unless we can impart vengeance then the rightful reward is back on us again

not easy to do either.

[hollow latch]

thats fair , i would disagree that its healthy for pvp if you need to tripple eat 1 tick after you get hit a 50

[grim dust]

agreed

[hollow latch]

it also means not camping 99 hp = constantly getting chanced if this new gmaul is likely to land

[marble shard]

yes

which makes sense on my end I want to keep my health bar healthy and green

it gets complicated when I have to accomodate for my opponent by leaving room to kill me, its flawed logic

lol

[hushed crow]

sheesh

writing a manifesto here

Okay I'll entertain the thought

you're not really making a suggestion as you're saying I want something

Where would this attachment come from?

What would it be?

What would the stats of this new weapon be?

I feel like there's not a whole lot of suggestion to this suggestion so much as its I want something

[prisma patio]

"Come fight me" is not a proper way to explain why Gmaul should get buffed homie.

[restive basin]

Buffed GMaul will have a special attack where the attack does double accuracy but waits a normal amount of ticks after your last attack to trigger. It will be incredible

[ripe swift]

From my understanding that kinda defeats the purpose of the gmaul, at least the delay from previous attack part.

[hollow rivet]

ah, so not the gmaul at all.

you've just described the exact opposite of a gmaul

[restive basin]

And so have you, by wanting it to be extremely accurate…

The trade off for the instant attack is crap accuracy. Just like trade off on Crystal halberds large potential damage spec on big targets is bad accuracy.

[marble shard]

👎🏿

[marble shard]

I am making a statement here. Why do we have to force a tradeoff? Why is there an ox yoke placed on the aggressor? Where is the opportunity for the receiving end to shine in the thick of the situation with the expression of their skillset?

[marble shard]

Big targets are NPC's, they can't respond nor derive any satisfaction in a crystal halberds large potential for damage by responding appropriately therefore the only logical solution to balance this is to nerf the weapons accuracy. In a competitive envoirment(PlayerVersusPlayer), it's within the recieving ends sphere of influence to do something about what the aggressor is trying to do. Let's not taint that with how it works over at PvM and instead encourage the point I am trying to bring forth here and build around that for the sake of expanding the QoL for pking as we now understand it. We do not want ags hitting 121's, why?

[restive basin]

It’s balanced the way it currently is. If you want to have two instant hits from a weapon you get to deal with the inaccuracy of those hits.

[marble shard]

Then we disagree, thanks for your input.

[fresh timber]

Sounds like you want to use Voidwaker

[marble shard]

Off-topic. I loved the introduction of Voidwaker, it really pushed PvP in the right direction, especially for NHing.

good one from Jagex

[fresh timber]

Seems like a weapon that is tuned similarly to what you're describing though, it's not instant hit but it sure has the Damage and Accuracy

[nimble berry]

If the gmaul had high accuracy on top of instant attacks, it would overtake every other spec weapon immediately

We're talking like 80-90 damage in a single game tick

No es bueno

Especially since it's dropped by a 75 slayer monster, and the ornate handles come from LMS

We already have high accuracy spec weapons that are appropriately gated behind time consuming/dangerous content (voidwaker pieces from wildy bosses, AGS from Kree, Claws from COX)

Which keeps their value high

Even if the gmaul were buffed the way you propose, there is no way to keep the value high enough to prevent an all out gmaul ragfest

[marble shard]

Look at the state of the minigame LMS. If this (insert paywall here), If that(insert stat restricition there), if here(have them do quests first). You know what the very paradox of lms is right now? Players are dependant on the very THING we are trying to squash to get a constant flow of active games going. My point is this, this is a realm of speculative thinking that will choke us before we ever see the light of day. There's nothing wrong about re-adjusting some stats furthur down the line if it proves to be escalating in a direction which proves to be detrimental to the overall QoL of PvP.

[hollow latch]

Bro what are you even saying

Lms is fun pvp minigame with 0 risk and no loot gained directly from killing people.
People using some of the best weapons there has no real impact on the wider game

People being able to reliably insta spec 70-90 damage on any tic , on a +1 they can keep is really not healthy. Can you justify this weapon for any scenario outside of risk fighting ?

[marble shard]

@hollow latch you've misunderstood. I was attempting to address this way of dealing with new prospects by countering it with overly concerned reasons for why it's a bad idea, which in reality has no basis, and ultimately only serves to choke the ideas that would contribute to a better overall game. There's always an "if" tied to it by using the minigame last man standing as a prime example of what happens when we focus on the wrong things.

At no point did I say that gmauls should hit 70-90 everytime I spec, it appears the discussion was moved and muddied into waters where this suggestion takes on a dimmer look. At the end of the day, I respect the way rng works, all I am fighting for is to allow the rng to be rolled out more frequently than it currently does (which would be a 0 everytime it does not) for people in the higher brackets.

I should've just not responded to him at all, my bad. It's one of those your personal problem things and it leaked as a consequence it seems

[hollow latch]

Okay fair enough, I'll be honest it does seem like you were asking for a gmaul that has like AGS accuracy.

But just a misunderstanding

[rapid cosmos]

Why does OP read like every single paragraph was made by chatGPT or someone trying to make a copy pasta

[fresh timber]

I thought the same thing myself!

[hushed crow]

its how verbose they are

too many official sounding words

[turbid vector]

As someone that has not made any comments until now, I was also under the impression that by “buffing accuracy” he essentially wanted a gmaul that hits like 70% of the time which would be pretty insane

And not needed at all in the game as it stands

And yes it does sound over-formal, almost robotic, and in many ways seems like trying too hard on flowery language makes his points incomprehensible

[marble shard]

@turbid vector Im glad that the misunderstanding got sorted out, it was all intended to be kept within reason 😅

[marble shard]

na but for real though, I appreciate the feedback from everybody. I have good intentions with this suggestion.

[hushed crow]

I still feel like you havn't made much of a concise suggestion

its all spread throughout a bunch of responses

[marble shard]

what do you think? should I edit the original post?

[hushed crow]

at this point no, you have to scroll up too far

might as well make a nice looking response that summarizes what you want

[marble shard]

@hushed crow wait reponse to whom?

how does that look like

[hushed crow]

Just write a nice looking block of text that gives a summarized suggestion

You originally talked about an attachment

you havn't talked about that afaik in all of these responses

where would it come from?

What would it do

"buff the g maul" is a bit confusing

[marble shard]

oh yeah that was the intention on the lowkey

how it comes or where it comes, I all open arms for whoever has a sound suggestion

[hushed crow]

yes but thats not YOU making a suggestion, its just you asking for something

[marble shard]

oh okay

[hushed crow]

people would respond more favorably imo if you put forward something

if you dont' do anything, it might come off as lazy

[marble shard]

okay I will make sure to get around and do that

thank you

[marble shard]

alright I opted to edit the second comment I ever made on this thread as the original post got deleted by a bot through my mistake.

[rapid cosmos]

Am I trolling though? Half your blocks of text are incredibly verbose without almost any real meat to them. It makes it hard to have a discussion about something when you throw shit like "Look at the state of the minigame LMS. If this (insert paywall here), If that(insert stat restricition there), if here(have them do quests first). You know what the very paradox of lms is right now? Players are dependant on the very THING we are trying to squash to get a constant flow of active games going. My point is this, this is a realm of speculative thinking that will choke us before we ever see the light of day. There's nothing wrong about re-adjusting some stats furthur down the line if it proves to be escalating in a direction which proves to be detrimental to the overall QoL of PvP." In there. You could convey that same meaning using 10% of that block of words, which would probably facilitate more discussion.

[marble shard]

@rapid cosmos bro what 😂 chill 😵

my intention was just to humor him with an example to then follow up with a point as to why I disagreed

it was my attempt on going easy on a topic that could be interpretated as sensitive

I was more concerned about him receiving it well, than impressing you

to be honest

Anyways, enough on that.

[nimble berry]

It would help a lot if there were a suggestion with some actual numbers and math put into it. You seem like a smart person, but you're wasting that intellect on verbal gymnastics. Let's see a proposal with some actual numbers and most folks here would be happier to engage with that.

[marble shard]

I disagree. If Jagex considers this, I trust that they will have a better understanding on how to adjust the numbers and properly balance it.

[rapid cosmos]

It's not about impressing me lol. I just made a comment that most of your comments are overdone and look like they are AI chat generated and you called me a troll 🤷‍♂️. But genuinely half your messages are so filled with useless fluff it makes having a good conversation more difficult. That's not about impressing anyone, it's just genuine feedback.

People aren't going to want to read a paragraph where only one line of it is actually relevant to the topic

See Fr4gnaroks message just a few messages ago. Short concise messages with math and simple reasoning/explanations is going to go a lot further than a paragraph about the realm of speculative thinking 🤷‍♂️ but too each their own I guess.

[nimble berry]

Unfortunately that's not how the game suggestion forum is structured. We're not supposed to give vague ideas and then shrug when questioned further.

[marble shard]

🫡 I think it is time to wrap it up here😂, I feel like we have gotten the most out of this, it appears we are only going to get diminished return from this point on.