A Discussion On Minimum Hit

[rose star]

I want to pick the brains of this community on the topic of a potential minimum hit. I know discussion about balance changes can get fairly dicey and there have been talks about this before. Just to clarify, when I say 'minimum hit', I'm talking about a minimum amount of damage dealt after rolling a successful hit. If you miss, you still get that iconic blue hit splat. (If you're wondering why I would need to clarify this, I point you to the confusion the Soul Stealer relic in Leagues 4 caused when it used the term 'minimum hit' in its description.) For context; currently whenever you hit something successfully, for the most part, you deal damage on a scale of 0 to your maximum hit, with every number having an equal chance of being rolled.

I am not an expert on game balance nor do I claim to be. I do not fully comprehend what a minimum hit would entail other than some speculation, which is why I'm not going to give any concrete numbers or propose anything specific, and instead ask all of you for your collective opinion about the topic in hopes of coming up with a consensus on the matter.

1. What is your total level? Do you consider yourself a casual or hardcore player?

2. Are you an ironman, a pure, and/or a 'snowflake' account? If so, what kind?

3. What is your favorite type of content to do in this game? (Bossing, Raids, PvP, Skilling, etc.)

4. How do you feel about a minimum hit in general?

5. What benefits and/or drawbacks would a minimum hit entail for the overall game balance?

6. What should the minimum hit be? Should it be a fixed number, based on your combat stats, based on your equipment, some combination of the three, or something else entirely?

7. Should special attacks have a different minimum hit than your previous answer? If so, what should it be?

8. Should damage be calculated differently to support a minimum hit system? (Example; numbers near the median of your minimum and maximum hit could be more likely to be rolled than numbers closer to the ends of the range.)

9. Do you think the addition of a minimum hit would invalidate achievements (such as boss pets, kill count, combat achievements, etc.) made prior to its inclusion? Why or why not?

10. Do you think the addition of a minimum hit would be healthy for PvP? Why or why not?

11. Do you think the addition of a minimum hit would be healthy for speedrunning content such as bosses or quests? Why or why not?

12. Do you think any particular weapons or gear would become over/underpowered with the addition of a minimum hit? If so, which ones, and what changes would you make to accommodate them?

Is that a lot of questions? You don't have to answer everything if you don't want to. Just answering as many as you can will be helpful. If you don't think that's enough questions however (or more reasonably; you have an idea/concern none of the questions cover) feel free to include any additional thoughts, proposals, critiques, etc. in your post. I know this isn't a suggestion in the traditional sense, but I don't think I can do this idea justice on my own. A minimum hit would be a massive change, and I'm nowhere near qualified to come up with the details on my own. The Oldschool Runescape community is full of wonderful, talented people who know and understand this game inside and out, which is why I defer to all of you. Thank you for reading my post, and I look forward to seeing your feedback.

[astral badge]

1974 total, casual uim, favourite content is skilling but may start pvm in the future

my thoughts on a minimum hit is that if it were to be implemented, it should be extremely inaccessible to the average player; e.g. only given to mega rares

benefits are more consistent dps therefore reduced resets due to poor rng for e.g. speedruns, but it also means that in some cases prioritising a max hit over just using a weapon that has a max hit (or obtaining that max hit if its not via an item) is less significant

if i were to implement minimum hit, it'd be 10% of your maximum hit and only apply on mega rares (mega rares meaning >500 hours to obtain from solo content, such as scythe or tbow (shadow would not apply in this case))

i would not give minimum hits to specs.

for (8) idk. i don't think so.
9) no, content like masori already invalidate old stuff like inferno kc and whatnot.

10. i don't know enough about pvp meta, but a lot of pkers seem to complain on the daily about having poor rng. it might help with that, but obviously complaints =/= wanting feedback, it can simply just be copium and there's nothing wrong with that nor does there need to be changes as a consequence

11. nice? maybe. healthy? not sure. as stated prior if it's hard to get a minimum hit then i think that's fair.

12. no, see prior comments

tldr - i think only items that would take an solo-only iron acc a long time to get should get a minimum hit

overall though i don't think a minimum hit is strictly needed

[charred gorge]

1. Total level? Casual or hardcore?
   2,095 total, casual player
2. Ironman, pure, and/or a 'snowflake' account?
   Nope, just a main
3. Favorite type of content to do in this game?
   Mass activities are appealing, But I mostly do skilling and low intensity PvM/Minigames
4. How do you feel about a minimum hit in general?
   I'd like it, I got an Osmumten's Fang recently and the way that weapon works is it takes some of the maximum hit and lowers that while raising the minimum. It feels satisfying.
5. What benefits and/or drawbacks would a minimum hit entail?
   If done like the fang, the benefit is not feeling like you wasted time hitting low, but the drawbacks are it will affect world record times.
6. What should the minimum hit be based on?
   The range could be depending on the weapon type, e.g. battleaxes can have high variance whereas daggers are more precise.
7. Should special attacks have a different minimum hit than your previous answer? If so, what should it be?
   Nah, just the usual percentage range the weapon would have.
8. Should damage be calculated differently?
   I think there would need to be a kind of invisible x10 to hitpoints and damage for this to work early game, I don't want to see it, just be there mechanically like how 1 XP is divided into tenths
9. Do you think the addition of a minimum hit would invalidate achievements made prior?
   Certain WR times would be unachievable yes.
10. Do you think the addition of a minimum hit would be healthy for PvP? Why or why not?
    People can currently hit way too hard and get lucky and that feels terrible on the receiving end.
11. Do you think minimum hit would be healthy for speedrunning?
    It would lengthen the best possible time while making that time more achievable on average.
12. Do you think any particular weapons or gear would become over/underpowered with the addition of a minimum hit?
    None come to mind, possible phoenix necklaces, both ways?

[astral badge]

Certain WR times would be unachievable yes.
like what

[charred gorge]

Any exceptionally rare run where people consistently hit their maximum before what I'm suggesting where everything is fang

I don't know which ones that would be, but if someone was hitting straight 30s and can now only hit 5-25 for example, that time is now unbeatable until new, stronger gear comes out

[astral badge]

a lot of wr runs are either long and therefore the probability would be so unreasonable i don't think anyone would care

or are short and usually very repeatable, with more than just what you use as a weapon

e.g. for the new whisperer ca, some people are doing double venge tech

which a minimum hit wouldn't even apply on

[charred gorge]

I'm thinking the short ones then, especially if only a few hits are necessary

But that's assuming also we've found the best tech for them which we probably haven't

[sharp falcon]

1. I hover around 1800 on multiple accounts. Casual, I guess, but I've played the game for ages.
2. Ironman
3. Everything but PvP
4. A minimum hit is good
5. Benefits: more design space. Less frustration for players.
   Drawbacks: increased player DPS. This is only a drawback if not accounted for by development.
6. The minimum hit should be variable dependent on your weapon and stats. What @charred gorge said basically.
7. Specs can be treated the same as normal attacks or differently. Again: more design space.
8. No
9. No and that shouldn't matter
10. I don't know
11. I don't know and don't care
12. Darts and other weapons with high attack speed could become OP. But again - you could simply set their minimum hit to 0. There is no reason not to implement this mechanic broadly, because it opens up further design space.

To expand on 9: achievements are already invalidated by the addition of new, more powerful or more flexible content. See Twisted Bow.

To expand on 11: speedrunning on official worlds is already achieved with preset inventories. Therefore, everyone is on the same playing field. Old non-official boss speedruns etc. may be invalidated, yes - see my expansion on #9 for why that doesn't matter.