#Slayer item rework - Black Mask

415 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

night whale
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Since the introduction of the Slayer Helmet, the black mask has fallen into obscurity. There is no reason currently to use a black mask over a slayer helmet outside of purely aesthetics.

My suggestion to fix this issue, is to remove the 10 defence requirement from the black mask, but keep this requirment for the slayer helm. This would give the black mask a niche as a slayer item used by low defence accounts. It would not disrupt game balance in anyway but would bring the iconic black mask back to its glory.

blazing lance
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that’s kind of the point though, it’s the same thing with all the other components of the slayer helm. no one with slayer helm requirements wears nose pegs or ear muffs etc outside of cosmetics

marsh zephyr
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That would make sense if black mask had 0 defense bonuses but it has the same defense bonuses as a black med helm

night whale
marsh zephyr
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They aren't gonna do that just to cater to pures tho

night whale
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its not about catering to pures

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its about reviving an obsolete item

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Black mask has no relevancy other than using it to create a slayer helmet

marsh zephyr
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Its not obsolete it's bis for slayer until you unlock the ability to make a slayer helm

earnest ermine
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i mean people use it until they unlock slayerhelm

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kinda quacked

night whale
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Think about the items used to create slayer helm

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they all have no defence req

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except black mask

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why is this?

blazing lance
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because it has stats?

marsh zephyr
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^

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The other items offer 0 bonuses

night whale
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yeah it needs to be reworked to match the other items

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and then, 10 def is such an obscure req

marsh zephyr
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Just because someone decided to limit their account to 1 defense we should remove the stats and let you use it?

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1 def torva when

night whale
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thats hyperbole

blazing lance
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i agree, remove black mask stats and buffs to match the other items 😊

night whale
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i already said to remove the def bonuses from black mask

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and keep the effect just like all the other items

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theres no logical opposition to this other than spiting pures

blazing lance
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the other items help with specific slayer monsters, so then remove the dps buff and make it a requirement for cave horrors instead and make it available in slayer master shop

lament shale
night whale
night whale
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pures would still be limited to only using the black mask on certain slayer tasks

lament shale
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but yeah

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im sure jagex would do something like this but prob not rn lol

lethal sonnet
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yeah it seems silly you should be required to have defence to equip good armor

marsh zephyr
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Lmao

lethal sonnet
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honestly they should make every piece of armor you can equip require level 2 defense

night whale
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think about the difference between 1 def and 10 def

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is it really a big change?

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and it would give it a much bigger role in the game

lethal sonnet
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If its not a big change probably not worth the time

lament shale
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idk i just think the amount of people who would want that is very very small

night whale
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it is worth it, because you would see ALOT more accounts slaying in black mask

lament shale
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i dont think jagex will ever consider it just bc how niche it would be

night whale
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the entire 1def community

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theres 1def highscores, i think thats a very large portion of the playerbase

blazing lance
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no one spends more than a few hours sub level 10 defense, certainly not anyone trying for a black mask drop or training slayer by the time the buff is important

night whale
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go look on the hiscores

lethal sonnet
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I see tons of people in the black mask since its a part of the slayer helm

marsh zephyr
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Remember how we had a poll about 1 defense accounts n stuff being able to lock XP n what not

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It failed for a reason lol

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U chose to be that way imo

night whale
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yeah, spite

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idk why this mean-spirited idea of voting down anything that benefits limited accounts came from

lament shale
night whale
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but it needs to stop

lament shale
lethal sonnet
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Why not just train to 10 defense its not that hard

marsh zephyr
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The community as a whole agreed catering to accounts that were restricted by the owner is silly

lament shale
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yeah listy bro

night whale
lament shale
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u want them to add task man to the game kek

blazing lance
night whale
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for instance, they polled pures being able to go to ape atoll 3 times...and each time it was spite voted down

lament shale
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u gonna pot taskman after ur uim is finished

marsh zephyr
night whale
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jagex had to do it themselves without a vote for it to happen

marsh zephyr
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Its a personal choice

night whale
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the fact that black mask has 10 def makes no sense, and should be reworked

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every other item that its in-line with doesnt require def

lament shale
night whale
lethal sonnet
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What about it doesnt make sense Black mask and slayer helm both require 10 def it makes perfect sense

lament shale
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they should make it 20 defense

night whale
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one is the upgraded version of the other

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how does them having the same req make sense?

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slayer helmet should require defence, black mask should not

lethal sonnet
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oh I thought slayer helm was a little weakerthen it was

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yeah they should keep black mask at 10 def and move slayer helm to 20

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perfect solution to the problem

lament shale
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nah i think they should make black mask 5def

lethal sonnet
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not a terrible Idea tho I like the idea of making slayer helm 20 more

blazing lance
night whale
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This is what i mean

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no logic, 100% emotion

dire hound
marsh zephyr
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I think black mask should be on par with black med helm because they have the same stats hope this helps

dire hound
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it's irrelevant except for the fact it's used in bis slayer gear?

night whale
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make black mask no def req

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make slayer helm 40 def or whatever idc

lament shale
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dps is heavily tied to the str bonus of your armor, i think for the dps it gives you it should be more around 70 defense

lethal sonnet
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also its only 10 defense it doesnt take that long to get

lament shale
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yeah true

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u can get 10 defense killing goblins for 5 minutes

lethal sonnet
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thats like what maybe 10-15 minutes to train

night whale
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400 slayer points doesnt take that long to get

dire hound
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yeah like two hours

lethal sonnet
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400 slayer points takes a little while to get

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on top of that slayer helm shouldnt be the first thing you buy

night whale
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nah i can get 400 slayer points in a couple hrs

lament shale
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why cant u get 10 defense

lethal sonnet
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I was gonna say if you can do slayer just fine should be easy to train defense to

night whale
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i have 99 defence

marsh zephyr
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Then ur fine to equip it

night whale
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this whole time you all thought i mained a pure lmao

dire hound
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just equip the mask ezpz

lethal sonnet
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Then you can just equip the mask

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ez

night whale
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this suggestion isnt coming from a place of emotion, like you all

dire hound
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sure that 10 def thing is an inconsistency

marsh zephyr
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Glad we found the solution

night whale
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this is coming from a game health perspective

dire hound
lament shale
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hey vlad

lethal sonnet
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giving people more stuff without training is bad for game health tho?

dire hound
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hey

night whale
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i dont want to see an iconic item with no niche

marsh zephyr
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Black mask is iconic!

lethal sonnet
night whale
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1 to 10 def...is literally nothing

dire hound
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not rlly, functionally that is

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but eh

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nitpicks

lethal sonnet
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wait you cant say that 1-10 defence is literally nothing while saying that something should be moved from 10 to 1 defense the literally makes no sense lol

night whale
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1-10 def = 185 xp

lament shale
night whale
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65-80 def = 1,536,640 xp

lament shale
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vlad wwd

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tob?

night whale
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see the gap?

dire hound
lament shale
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fk u

dire hound
night whale
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we're talking about an item that has a def req.....that does not need one or make sense to have one

lament shale
lethal sonnet
tardy agate
night whale
lethal sonnet
blazing lance
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literally both

tardy agate
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Spiny helmet requires 5 defence, please it make it 1 defence so pures can kill wall beasts

night whale
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Did i not say remove the defensive stats to make it in-line with facemask and nose peg / goggles

night whale
blazing lance
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#1184615003073028107 message i still feel this is most reasonable if we’re removing its stats to make it in line with the rest of the components then

night whale
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my suggestion is to remove its stats and keep the effect of providing increased accuracy/str on task

lethal sonnet
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I dont want them to nerf black mask

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so im gonna have to give it a no

eternal birch
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why dont you get 10 def

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i have a friend who has a 1 def uim and she acknowledges all of her restrictions

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and honestly her acc is probably better than yours

eternal birch
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it's just under 4 hours of chinning in kruk's dungeon

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what's significant about that exactly

night whale
eternal birch
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the average player absolutely can

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chins are not expensive

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also you can just like, hunt them yourself lol

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only 8k chins

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not even 8k, it's less than

night whale
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"4 hours"

eternal birch
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yes

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6000 ticks / 3 ticks per chin = 2000 per hour

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hence 'just under' 8k chins

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training a different skill doesn't mean you take longer, if you weren't aware

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otherwise 99 magic is technically like a few hundred hours

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but no, it's 0-time

night whale
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because the average player has 13m to burn

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your so out of touch

eternal birch
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???

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people spend more

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on rigour

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do you think the average person just doesnt have rigour

night whale
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nobody is going to waste money on chinning for def

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when u can train def with melee doing slayer

eternal birch
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l0l

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ok man

night whale
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you are completely out of touch

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and you did nothing to prove your point

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noone with logic is going to agree that 65-80 def and 1-10 def are equivalent

eternal birch
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the funny thing is you're considering 1-10 def as an irrelevant increase

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but it's clearly relevant enough for you otherwise this game suggestions thread wouldn't exist

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your entire reasoning is that "so many more people [1 def players] would use a black mask"

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that's literally what you're arguing as like the core reason something like this should be implemented

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you can't be like xyz is a small deal and then post a suggestion saying xyz people would gain a massive benefit

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ok if its such a small deal, you get 10 def and you use a black mask

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what is the issue exactly

night whale
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Are you familiar with the concept of trade-offs?

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Where the benefit of doing something outweighs the negative repercussions

eternal birch
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the trade-off is a non-comparison

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1 def is a self imposed restriction

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at least uim is an official restriction

night whale
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its absolutely viable here, because the tradeoff of removing the def req is that the mask is slightly nerfed for high def builds

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when most high def builds only use black mask for a small duration until they get a slayer helmet

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pures would permanently utilize the black mask for the entire duration of their acc

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you need to think outside of your own box

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I don't even spend most of my time on a pure, but i see how this would benefit the game as a whole

eternal birch
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high def builds don't use black mask

night whale
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exactly, so what is your gripe?

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why does benefiting 1def pures hurt?

eternal birch
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so your so-called extra benefit is nonexistent

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you're arguing it like it's an extra case as to why a change should be implemented

night whale
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You didn't comprehend what i wrote

eternal birch
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but it's straight up just not true

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i did comprehend it

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high def builds never use a black mask, you just straight-away get a slayer helmet

night whale
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Right

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and the benefit is for those low defence accounts who never will be able to use a slayer helmet

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while also giving a niche for the black mask that did not exist previously

eternal birch
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also

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asked a 1 def pure friendo

night whale
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its called "Black Mask"

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not slayer mask

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he probably thought you were referring to the slayer helmet

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duhh no pure wants to use the slayer helmet

eternal birch
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black mask and slayer mask are pretty much interchangeable since asking for one would involve asking about the other

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since yknow, slayer helmet has no different requirement to the black mask

night whale
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HUH?

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thats how i know you didnt comprehend

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i said the slayer helmet should retain a defence requirement

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only the black mask should have the req removed since its REQUIRED to create the slayer helm

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it doesnt make sense for them both to have the same def requirment since one is the upgraded version

eternal birch
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should bcp have its req removed bc it's required to make torva

night whale
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No because bcp gives def bonuses that are less than torva

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your analogy isnt applicable to this

eternal birch
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but the black masj has def bonuses which are less than slayer helm

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so it is applicable

radiant zenith
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I don't particularly like this idea
The black mask is used a lot by people before they spend the points to get the Slayer Helmet, removing the bonuses of it just to cater to 1 def accounts seems silly when a far larger number of people doing efficient slayer won't be making the slayer helm until they've got their block list, bigger and badder, and important unlocks completed.

night whale
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but they both have the exact same def requirment??

eternal birch
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so what

night whale
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do you see how this doesnt make sense

eternal birch
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inquisitor has a lower def requirement than rune

night whale
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thats like bcp and torva both being 65 def

radiant zenith
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Sometimes gear can have the same requirements and give different bonuses

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It's not that uncommon

night whale
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thats asinine

night whale
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so it makes sense for inq to be lower

eternal birch
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adamant platebody has same requirement as inq hauberk but inq is still lower???

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guys can we remove defence stats from inq

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this makes no sense

night whale
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addy and inq both require 30 def

radiant zenith
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I think it's asinine to remove the black mask's stats to cater to a very small group of people who knew going into it that they didn't have access to the black mask's effects

eternal birch
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and inq has lower stats

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yes

radiant zenith
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There's no reason to change it except "I want this item on my pure"

eternal birch
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the only def bonus it gives which is higher is crush... but inq is a crush set so that's kinda a moot point

night whale
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lily i cant with you, doesnt make enough sense

night whale
radiant zenith
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Except it'd make the item worse for a far larger group of people than would be allowed to use it by doing this change

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The black mask just isn't 'obscure'

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Most people training slayer should be using the black mask for the first 70 or so levels of training it.

night whale
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do you think you would notice the difference if those bonuses were gone?

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barelyt

eternal birch
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i propose we nerf black mask to 1 def bonus for each style

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in return, it now has a 2 defence requirement

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now, people who weren't 10 defence before starting slayer have an advantage

night whale
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and here comes the trolling

eternal birch
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thats 8 whole levels

night whale
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not gonna entertain you if ur not gonna be serious

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two def makes no sense

uncut socket
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Also need to waste 500 slayer points to get slayer helm which could been used for valueable skips

night whale
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yes

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however black mask would still be useful until you get the slayer helm

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black mask would not lose any usefulness for high def accs

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it would just gain usefulness for low def accs

blazing lance
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literally only 1def pures

night whale
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5def pures also

blazing lance
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no one else is training slayer sub 10 def

night whale
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and lets not act like 1def pures arent a big fraction

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why else would they add 1def highscores

shrewd ledge
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I think this is just one of those things that jagex should have just made 1 def all those years ago, but it's a but too late now, with all the pures who got 10 def to wear it specifically

blazing lance
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it’s just a silly argument to remove the limitations of a self imposed restricted account

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just get the 200 xp

night whale
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alot of pures got screwed by changing the weapon reqs from 75 to 80

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but they did it anyways

eternal birch
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it's always too late to fix something that isn't broken*

shrewd ledge
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It was annoying, but 75 attack still is very strong, and at least the pures then had the chance to decide to go 80 attack or stay 75. But u can't go back to 1 def from 10 lol

night whale
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true

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thats why i voted for that xp revert

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where u could take away up to 500 xp

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that would be able to revert from 10 def to 1 def

eternal birch
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that xp revert would be so stupid

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it would mean the meta would be to use that as a mechanic rather than as an "oopsie! got def xp by accident" lifeline

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the overall effect would just be game slightly easier with no repercussions

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iirc you can get varrock hard (which you normally couldnt) with that -500 xp lamp

night whale
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we know ur against anything that helps pures lily

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no shocker there

eternal birch
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i mean, i don't mind it, when it's not just considered as something that """helps everyone""" when it obviously doesn't lol

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ironic that you say i can't ""comprehend"" your post when you can't comprehend mine either

night whale
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i can comprehend your post, but i prefer not to because it's rooted in bias and hate towards a fraction of the community

eternal birch
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it's not hate lol

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it's acknowledgement of a particular account build's restrictions

blazing lance
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first they came for the 1def pures,

eternal birch
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self-imposed, might i add

night whale
eternal birch
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yes, hence why the warped sceptre was added

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however, there is a very """"""""mild"""""""" difference between going from [iban staff -> trident] and [iban staff -> warped sceptre] and 1 -> 10 def

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some iron acc builds can't access slayer, so this affects them

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hence that affected more than just irons themselves, some acc builds as a whole can't access slayer at all (bronzeman yada yada)

night whale
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by your logic thats a bad update since it benefits a self-imposed limited acc

eternal birch
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that's not my logic though

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my logic is that your idea is bad because it only benefits a self-imposed ruleset on an unofficial account style

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when you make a new account, you can't choose "1 defence" as a type of account in the account options/settings

night whale
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i think it benefits the game as a whole

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since it adds variety and diversity

eternal birch
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of course you think so, because you're trying to push for it to exist

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lol

night whale
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you would see high level slayers in black masks

eternal birch
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they can already do so, they just choose not to

radiant zenith
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I think every account out there having access to a black mask, even ones self imposed knowing they'd be unable to get one, is removing diversity from the game

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I love seeing people fighting higher level slayer monsters in a Robin Hood hat

night whale
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people slay in what is most efficient

marsh zephyr
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There's no shit this is still going

eternal birch
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yes, slayer itself is fundamentally built around being as efficient as possible

marsh zephyr
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Shot*

eternal birch
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if you aren't doing efficient slayer you are having a miserable time end of story

night whale
marsh zephyr
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The thing is

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Thrre is no issue with it

night whale
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black mask would still be a relatively obsolete item

marsh zephyr
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That's a personal issue

radiant zenith
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It's not obsolete, it's the best helm for slayer if you don't want to spend a few dozen hours getting a slayer helm with points+ crafting level

marsh zephyr
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The only way you want to make this work is to remove the stats yes? So 1 defense can use it? But that's just a direct nerf to the item and no one would vote yes to that lol

night whale
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a slight nerf yes

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if we polled the 1def community i gurantee they would pass it

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it just makes too much sense

eternal birch
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reminder

Discord_kIGIGC05ft.png
night whale
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Thats one pure, not the community

marsh zephyr
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From what I've seen your the only one that thinks that makes sense in this thread

radiant zenith
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Crazy to think if you only polled an item for the community it would directly benefit and not the community that would get the short end of the stick you'd see it pass

night whale
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and you didnt even word the question properly

eternal birch
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that's one pure who did cg and sote at sub-60 combat and has an infernal cape

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i would say they have a pretty big leg up in this situation

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on a uim, might i add

night whale
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thats all well and good, but one person doesnt speak for the entire community

eternal birch
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but that's what you're doing

night whale
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and i have plenty of pure homies that want this change

tardy agate
night whale
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its not hypocrisy, its facts

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i never attempted to speak for anyone but myself

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like i said, put it to a poll and you will see

eternal birch
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reading "if we polled [community] i guarantee they would pass it" is amusing to me

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because this is the same logic that was used for "well neg xp lamps would pass! lets poll it"

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> failed

night whale
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thats people like you spite voting

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poll the pure community and see what happens

tardy agate
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now it's your move jagex!!!

radiant zenith
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They're not going to poll just pures for this lmfao

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As it affects everyone

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It's not like the UIM polls where it changes things solely for UIM

night whale
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i know that, but just to prove a point....that pures want this change implemented

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Lily said that pures dont want this

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and im begging to differ

tardy agate
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They don't have a track record of polling balance changes anyway so talking about polls here is kinda moot

radiant zenith
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If you don't want to abide by the known limitations of an account you create, you can at any time no longer restrict yourself to enjoy the full benefits of the items you're missing out on

night whale
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i didnt know that man, thanks so much

radiant zenith
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No problem! For further resources check out the OSRS wiki!

eternal birch
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you're saying 'one person doesnt speak for the community'

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despite you quite literally just doing that

marsh zephyr
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I said it before I think the 1 defense XP lock poll was a good view of how the community feels about catering to self restricted accounts. (It failed)

eternal birch
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and also saying that other pures would love it

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but a fair few (at least literally from like a 2 minute google search rn) wouldn't want it

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and if you look aboe, you'll see the majority aren't actually ""spite voting"" as you claim me to do

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which, for the record, i skipped the question

night whale
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okay i expected the community to be more divided on that particular question

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thats a more polarizing concept, of locking xp or reverting xp

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but this black mask change, would be different imo

shrewd ledge
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Being able to lock xp would be a no Brainer benefit to the game, at least if you could do this in pvp only.
The area that might not be so good is reverting xp, as you could achieve a bunch of stuff first then revert ur xp lol

shrewd ledge
eternal birch
shrewd ledge
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How so if pvp only?

eternal birch
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because account builds are specifically made to abuse the combat level system

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making it easier (which is what wow did iirc) breaks the impact of acc builds in general

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making it about as useful as not having it in the first place

shrewd ledge
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? So because pk builds are strong for their combat level you are against letting people have more freedom to optimize their build essentially

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They did this in bounty hunter already, don't see why they can't have it everywhere in pvp

eternal birch
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you can already lock xp in pvp anyway

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it's called playing an ironman

shrewd ledge
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No it's not, there are many obvious reasons why that is a dumb comparison I don't feel I need to explain

eternal birch
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pker doesnt want to put in effort wahhh

shrewd ledge
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You've never pked before I can tell

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You should give it a try before you spout nonsense like that

eternal birch
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wahhhhhh

marsh zephyr
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the way it can effect a pvp build is get 10 defense then u can use it

shrewd ledge
marsh zephyr
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oh the community voted no to that we already polled that i thought we were talking about black mask

shrewd ledge
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Yes, there are a lot of clueless people in the community who have never tried pking before, and also don't understand account builds used in it. That's why they vote no

marsh zephyr
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i mean u dont have to try pking to understand someone is restricting themselves by having 1 defense for a lower combat

shrewd ledge
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1 defence pures are trash past about level 80 combat. Whenever I see a 1 def account it's free kill pretty much. I'd want xp lock for my piety med account, which I want to keep at level 100

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A lot of the people who want to lock xp want to do it in the higher combat brackets. 1 defence if your going to be pking in rev caves most of the time you'd want it to be maxed out hp, str, range, mage anyway if your hanging around level 30 wildy, because any other pking build that has defence will shred you

marsh zephyr
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i doubt they will re poll that but i mean who knows

shrewd ledge
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They've done it for bounty hunter. The next logical thing is just apply it to all of pvp. If it was like that from the start no one would care.

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I can almost promise you. Experienced pkers who use 1 def pures in mid wildy are all maxing them out because it would be pointless not to do so. Unless your wanting to do bounty hunter or risk fights in pvp worlds at Lower brackets.

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This would mainly benefit higher combat brackets with defence levels in the mix

worthy depot
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This guy going "waah my 1 def pure can't use black mask" is not very sympathetic

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But slayer does kinda suck before you get a black mask

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On Ironman pre 58 slayer or poor mains

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I think there's room for weapons that deal 10% bonus damage on a slayer task that don't necessarily stack with the black mask bonus