Sunfire dust and its long term uses

[wispy urchin]

I am not happy with the path taken to give the dust a long-term use. The runes are not in a healthy state to be polled.

Topic 1: Long term use of Sunfire Dust
The idea is to have items that keep eating up the dust so that they always have value, but the items shown are not good enough to carry the long term sink of Sunfire Dust.

Issue 1: There’s no CONSUMEABLE that sinks Sunfire Dust
Let’s use crystal shards as an example, we are constantly chugging divines and sinking crystal shards from the game, single handedly holding the long term use for shards.

Proposal 1a: Add potions that use Sunfire Dust to be created
Divine pots are chugged daily, Ancient Brews are not. The potions made with Sunfire Dust must be generically powerful that we use them for almost every combat encounter. For this role I can suggest:
• Prayer Enhance potions, made by combining Sunfire Dust with Prayer Potions to give endgame players reasons to still care for prayer pots instead of Super Restores or Sanfews
• HP Enhance potions, made by combining Sunfire Dust with Normal Restore potions (Harralander + Red Spider Egg) to give the dead content pot more use
• Secondary way to make Sanfew Potions, combining Super Restores with Sunfire Dust. I hate that the only source of these pots is boss drops.

Proposal 1b: Add Gladiator’s Insignia
The Gladiator’s Insignia is acquired in an inert state and is activated with a high amount of Sunfire Dust. Once activate it behaves like an Imbued Heart for melee stats, giving a +19 boost that decays over time with a 7 minute cooldown.
It can then be upgraded with a very high amount of Sunfire Dust to have a static +19 boost in melee stats fore 5 minutes, with a 5 minute cooldown.
We will still require taking normal super combats to boost after brewing down, so the base pots won’t be devalued.

Topic 2: Sunfire runes are clunky to make, use and don’t really have a reason to be used
Going to an already existing altar to then re-make fire runes for a marginal effect on STANDARD COMBAT SPELLS will not be fun, even further, I believe they will be DoA for anything other than Ice Demon.

Issue 2a: Sunfire runes will not have combination runes which makes them “cost” 2 slots in the rune pouch
I’ll use my CM setup as an example. I walk in with 1 soul rune in my invy to cast Vuln and my pouch has Wrath, Mind, Dust and Steam runes. I need Water and Earth for Tekton, Air and Fire for Ice demon and Water and Air at Olm to clear fire if any mistakes happen.
As the designated punching bag, I often must brew down to Olm’s offprayer hits, and I WILL NOT risk letting my partner get scorched because Olm did an offprayer hit.

Proposal 2: Sunfire runes changed to Sun runes that behave like omni-elemental runes
With their own altar in Varlamore, gives Jagex enough room to work with their lore behind the Sun and Runecrafting.
Omni-Elemental runes will also add more versatility to what we can do with the rune pouch and with a limited supply locked to Varlamore release, they will have an interesting market for.

Issue 2b: Standard Combat spells suck
Iban blast is king until Trident of the Seas and by then Fire Surge can barely keep up.
What does fire surge need to keep up? An offhand that boosts damage by 50%, A staff that reduces casting speed to 4 and removes the left click to attack delay. All that while having a maximum of 2285 casts in the rune pouch, being hard locked out of doing ANY magic damage if using brews to heal and having to reset autocast if you ever brew down.
I understand the desire of wanting them to shine, but it’s all misplaced since on top of 2 massive damage multipliers, it’s still not good enough.
I have no proposal to this exact issue since for me this was, is and will forever be a losing battle, but my spidey senses point to 2 items we could look at.

Proposal 3a: Elemental tomes to be given strong noncombat uses
They’re tied to the Standard Spellbook and are forever cursed to its mediocrity. To give them powerful long term noncombat/debuff uses will make them relevant in more ways.

Proposal 3b: Harmo staff to autocast Arceuus and Ancients
The second victim to Standard Spellbook, its power level was never that much over Sang, losing its edge once Ward (f) and Thralls were added to the picture.
Powered staves should remain the kings of single target damage, “elemental weaknesses” should be only a quest mechanic and Harmo should be moved to another niche, one on which will justify its rarity and make Nightmare less dead content.

[open terrace]

Secondary way to make Sanfew Potions, combining Super Restores with Sunfire Dust. I hate that the only source of these pots is boss drops.
> just make it yourself omegalul

or buy it

you aren't even an iron how are you complaining about sanfews

[opaque wigeon]

Personally I think the current use of the Sunfire Dust for Sunfire runes is a bit weird, at least in the near term. If we could see into the future a bit and see other upgraded elemental runes, then perhaps it would make sense.

I do generally agree that the Sunfire Dust should probably have more uses. But, it also depends on how it's obtained; can it only be obtained from the Colosseum? Or is it like Crystal Shards in Prifddinas?

To me, it makes sense that niche items have niche uses, and common items have common uses. So the amount of uses the Sunfire Dust should have should be dependent on how many methods there are to obtain it.

Sun runes that act as Omni-elemental runes sounds a bit odd, both conceptually and naming-wise. Just "Elemental rune" would make more sense - but I think that might not be a good direction to head down. It might simply runes too much.

As for the elemental stuff: I don't think there's any issue with the tomes. I kind of feel like they're in a pretty good place at the moment (for example: using the Tome of Fire with Iban's staff is pretty good).

But I do agree that the elemental spells need some refinement. An idea of "using Water spells is best for Fire giants" could be good. But I think that requires some strong planning - it's not something I think could be handled with the introduction of ths Fortis Colosseum.

[regal pagoda]

Tomes suck because they remove thralls and remove a 5% damage shield (even if you could compete with shadow) on top of requiring burnt pages which are generally unsustainable right now for irons

[opaque wigeon]

I guess there's two parts to the tomes:

• They provide infinite fire runes for spells which aren't the Fire spells. So in this usage, I think they're fine. And you could always alternatively use Fire runes.
• They provide a 50% multiplicative damage when using a Fire spell. I guess this is the scenario where tomes need to be buffed.

Perhaps then it would make sense that Searing pages could provide a solution here.

[wispy urchin]

They provide a 50% multiplicative damage when using a Fire spell. I guess this is the scenario where tomes need to be buffed.
For Fire Surge + Harmo + Tome of Fire to be good, you either need to invent a mechanic of elemental weaknesses (creating a problem to sell the solution) or buff the raw dps so much that it shines over Sang + Ward + Thralls, which is unhealthy for the game

that is why one of the proposals is to just accept that standard combat spells were, are and will forever be filler and stop trying to interact with them for anything other than quest bosses

The entire discussion on buffing fire spells is built on a wrong premise

[opaque wigeon]

invent a mechanic of elemental weaknesses (creating a problem to sell the solution)
I think a mechanic of elemental weakness can be good for the game, and I don't actually think that's "creating a problem to sell the solution".

Creating a problem to sell a solution would be like adding fatigue back into the game, where it affects everyone negatively, except for the players who take advantage of it, who will gain the neutralness.

An elemental weakness mechanic I imagine to be affecting nobody, except for the players who take advantage of it, who will gain the positive effects.

As an example: just buff Water spells when used against Fire giants. That won't be a problem to players who don't do that; it will just be a boon to players who do use it.

[wispy urchin]

You have just described the rationale used to justify a solution to a problem you just created

[opaque wigeon]

No? The explanation was to show that no problem/disadvantage is created, but an advantage is created instead.

And the whole game is built on creating advantages.

[wispy urchin]

Sir you are talking about creating a situation that doesnt exist in the game on the same update you add the setup for the certain situation

"lets add a 5th wheel to cars so that they can carry more weight and maneuver slightly better btw here's a specific chassis that only my company makes that is the only 5 wheel chassi in the biz"

[opaque wigeon]

Yes. This is not the same as "creating a problem to sell a solution".

The correct version of "creating a problem to sell a solution" would be "let's worsen current cars to make them carry less weight and maneuover worse, and make the new car with 5 wheels carry the original weight and maneuoverbility".

Otherwise, then everything you have suggested, and everything anyone has suggested, can be deemed as "creating a problem to sell a solution".

To clarify (my example): I'm not suggesting that Fire giants can only be damaged by Water spells. I'm suggesting that they could be damaged by any spell, but Water spells are more damaging.

[wispy urchin]

You are now creating the problem that anything that isn't a water spell sucks at your target

And to make water spells good at your target you are making every other magic weapon worse there

everything loses just so you can force a little bit of cream to rise to the top to then sell it

[opaque wigeon]

That's not true at all; I never suggested making non-Water spells worse against Fire giants; the suggestion would be to make Water spells better against Fire giants.

You can say "well now non-Water spells won't be as good as Water spells when fighting Fire giants" but that's relative truth for any advantage you provide in the game.

[wispy urchin]

all spells to 100% to a target. now one spell does 150% damage to a target

you are in practice making all other spells worse

the baseline moved to 150 and now the others have been nerfed to 100

[opaque wigeon]

But that relative logic is the same for any advantage your provide to the game.

For example, in your suggestion: an Omni-Sun rune will worsen any other elemental rune, including combination runes.

[wispy urchin]

tbow didnt create a "triangle affinity mechanic" that only benefits it

And to just set the last pointin the debate

If they ever make elemental damage a thing, it will be balanced towards harmo staff

Do you have one or want to go get one?

They refuse to make harmo good so they want to create the problem to sell it as the solution

[opaque wigeon]

I have no idea what you're trying to suggest now. By your logic, any new update would ultimately "create a problem" - what kind of update wouldn't?