#Vyre Area - Bank/Altar Requirements

303 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

gaunt knoll
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The bank should require the Hard Morytania Diary completion, and the altar should require the Elite diary to be completed.

On top of this, I would make it so the altar strictly requires you to be on a slayer task as well.

Why? Vyres being extremely AFK (as opposed to e.g. pickpocketing vyres which is absolutely not AFK) causes BF price to be... obnoxiously cheap for how good of an item it is.

Why Hard/Elite tiers? The Hard tier of the diary is pretty easy, I mean if you've done SotF you should easily be able to do this tier. The bank still requires you to bring your vyre noble outfit + requires you to use your own supplies (namely prayer and combat potions).

The Elite tier of the diary is also pretty easy (especially for mains) - the only hard requirements are 85 (80) slayer (which is easy on mains) and 96 (91) fishing, which is very quick to get (even faster on mains; 2.5 tick barb fishing), but requiring the elite tier + being on a slayer task is fair enough for essentially infinite free prayer restoration - i.e. giving vyres that "afk" status it's known for.

Edit - Also, to append to this, for those saying that fishing is "ungodly slow" or whatever bullshit, 70 -> 91 fishing is under 40 hours. Sure, you might not want to tick manip or w/e, but at the end of the day you choose to do afk methods because you want to afk, and you accept that you'll get worse xp as a result.

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also, a fair few bots use hacked accounts

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so limiting who can access content before they get hacked, will inevitably mean the resulting amount of usable hacked accounts is lower

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sure you can say "they'll just bot it to the point where it's usable" but you can say that about a brand new acc too - it's essentially 0 time since it's botting so kinda a moot point to raise

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mhm

leaden ether
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Minimum should be like a basilisk jaw where you're more likely to get it on task

gaunt knoll
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eh idk if that's enough honestly

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at least with basilisk knights the mob isn't exactly very afkable

graceful crow
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Not a fan of any of this.
a) this is just as bad a suggestion as stuff like "improve community reporting of bots", in that the real answer is mostly "let Jagex combat bots however they want; we don't know how it works"

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b) except this actually makes experience worse for regular players too

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c) I'm always gonna be in favor of more banks & not taking away banks

gaunt knoll
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i mean, no it doesn't make experience worse for regular players

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if you're a decent midgame player you'll have at the bare minimum the mory hard diary done

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and the elite tier is not that much above hard

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as i stated in the post

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if anything i think you'll have mory hard done before you hit midgame

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at the end of the day, the actual impact is not necessarily even bots - most people i see at vyres are just straight up afk 'real' players

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point still stands though

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also

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a) this is just as bad a suggestion as stuff like "improve community reporting of bots", in that the real answer is mostly "let Jagex combat bots however they want; we don't know how it works"
this is not like, the same comparison though?

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at the end of the day, "improving community reporting of bots" would not make it easier for legitimate players to do certain content until at least a significant amount of time passes

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making it inconvenient to bot at areas will push those botters elsewhere

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there will be an immediate effect

outer cove
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I don't see this making a huge difference. Draken tele to vyres, duel ring to ferox doesn't take that much longer

gaunt knoll
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ok?

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tp to ge with varrock med diary prob saves around the same amount of time

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still a p big difference tho

graceful crow
gaunt knoll
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wat

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how did i change my definition exactly

graceful crow
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Ok, not changing *your. But you are choosing a set of players as regular & deserving of stuff, like banks & altars & vyre usage

gaunt knoll
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i am yes

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that's kinda the point

graceful crow
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IMO removing a bank would also be a particularly poor solution

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Imagine the first time someone gets to that area

gaunt knoll
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again, hard morytania diary

graceful crow
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The discovery & use of a bank is such a godsend after a long trek somewhere

gaunt knoll
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what long trek are you talking about

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drakan tele

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then run up for 10 seconds?

graceful crow
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Can you access the bank during or only after SOTF?

gaunt knoll
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don't actually know

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apparently you can use it during sotf if you're wearing vyre noble

graceful crow
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That's quite useful

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And, conversely if it's not a big deal to just tele in, tele out, then... it's not a big inconvenience to bots either

gaunt knoll
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[19:33]" 🐀 ": Otherwise why not just make Vorkath accessible after Fremennik Trials since that's when the fremmies stop treating u like a blight and one of them instead.

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[19:15]" 🐀 ": Issue is that it was badly designed in the first place. A good example is PNM/NM - There's no good reason for leaving PNM/NM only behind Priest in Peril, which is why there was so many bots from prime promotions able to crash the price so hard.

graceful crow
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I would agree SOTF & the whole Myreque quest line have really oddly low skill requirements for their content, scale, & rewards

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Seems totally reasonable IMO to increase those

graceful crow
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Banks should be available & there should be more of them in the game

gaunt knoll
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there are more than enough banks rn

graceful crow
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IMO random specialty banks, note & unnote guys & the proposed bank locked behind achievement diaries are almost as weird as wilderness specific mechanics

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Just have banks

gaunt knoll
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could even just make the altar scale on diary completion instead of being full restriction

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easy/no completion = you can use it, but you restore only up to a maximum of 1 prayer point (i.e. useful still if you plan on prayer flicking vyres)

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medium = 10%

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hard = 25%, elite = full restore + maybe the prayer enhance thing

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true

graceful crow
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Sure, something like that sounds reasonable

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For bot combatting in particular, I think a weird solution you could use is limit the number of times you can do stuff without some req, or yeah, add timers

gaunt knoll
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true

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ig actually fair point

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i forgot you still need vyre noble in your invy to switch to in order to use the banks

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so it's not like entirely free

graceful crow
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It is nice to have diaries give rewards, and if those can prevent botting that's great. Timers, limited # of usage, flagging trades, etc.. are more targeted at bots & long grinds

gaunt knoll
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maybe vyres would be viable money maker with elite diary and this being added

graceful crow
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Nice brainstorming y'all. Thanks for accepting criticism

gaunt knoll
civic lake
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The fishing req is the only reason I would be against this

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91 fishing is boring and slow to do (I'm doing it afk on the side)

It would be effective to stop bots but I do feel all the changes would be detrimental to most players

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😠 never

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The only help I will accept is if you want to spec transfer me nonstop for harpoon specs so I say +3

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Hard diary for the Bank I don't think would do much since you don't bank that frequently and can use the necklace to go tob bank and get back easy

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The sad part is I can't tell if you're joking 😂

opal depot
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i think hard diary for the altar would be good. bank doesn't really matter too much either way. elite is probably pushing it a bit too far

civic lake
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This is probably the fairest solution

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Reward people who do the tedious diaries and skilling

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Hindering bots

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And normal players don't really lose out too much

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Most players don't have base 80s for skills , so anything that goes above 80 skill wise starts to enter the point it locks out the avergae player

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And 90 is where a majority can't do it

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It would just become a slayer task skip

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Nobody wants to do skills they don't find fun for minimal reward

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There is a reason most players aren't 2k total🤷🏿‍♂️

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Max Cape players are a different breed and would have probably maxed without the Cape existing

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Most players version of end game is all elite diaries and that's only since they can +5 boost

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Locking drop rate behind diary and maybe the alter behind medium/hard would be enough to stop the brain dead bots

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And give incentive to train without making the entire spot dead content prior to being 2k total

opal depot
civic lake
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its quest locked

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also i know its a very small sample size but i just checked the highscores for the 25 people next to me

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only 5 have over 90 fishing

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lol im saying if it was locked behind elite

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you would most likely be shutting down almost everyone sub 2k total

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also i like using blood fury everywhere for cheap peepognomeblush

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i sometime find myself selling my torture for another 20k charges

opal depot
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yeah i just mean if you're going for xp, you should keep them locked

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yeah i think the 1/500 would be a good fit for on task too

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but maybe that's just way too common

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then probably you wanna make the default rate rarer

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not diary/task rate more common

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don't see why we'd need something for every tier. can just do like 1/3k for no diary, 1/1500 hard, 1/1k elite

meager oracle
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I don’t disagree with the sentiment, but shards are cheap af mostly because of thieving bots. It’s far faster to get shards by thieving than killing and there are many bots on every world with 200m+ thieving exp and rogues

still bridge
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While I get the sentiment, this will impact legit players too negatively.

Changing the drop rate based on diary completion would be a better solution.

potent viper
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na, would agree if each tier of mort diarys made the fishing better and better xp/hr.

easy mort reward: have a spot that doesn't in meiyerditch that as you fish the citizens take the catch.

med: allow the spot to speed up to be 3t like barbarian

hard: have 2 vyres hit you for 0-2 damage so you can 2t the spot.

elite: the vyres deal no damage.

potent viper
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meh. vyre are already locked behind a master quest. leave em be then.

fierce sentinel
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I think AFKing vyres is a little too viable off-task, so that makes it hard to find a spot when you're on task. But I think that's a really minor problem relatively speaking. I think it would be fine to have a diary restriction for the altar, like setting a cooldown of 15/10/5/0 minutes based on diary tier. I'm always down to have more rewards for diaries but your solution seems more restrictive than it does rewarding.

I do think you're underestimating how many blood shards come into the game from thieving bots though, and assigning too much blame to legitimate players who are using vyres as their AFK activity. Daily volume of blood shards is about 3k, and just one thieving bot can bring in 6 or so per day.

leaden ether
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Its fine, I'll relock the vampire task and just buy them for 500k in 3 months, task is boring anyway lul

spark tartan
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Diaries really are the way, I just use desert ammy 4 and restore at nardah so I can fight the vyres by the darkmeyer teleport instead of competing with everyone and their dog and bots at the stupid altar

gaunt knoll
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??/ 3t fishing lol for free

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no tick manip or anything just fully free basically

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unreal

potent viper
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if tick manip is going to be the best fishing, make it so we can do it better.

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you must have assumed that because fishing already sucks

gaunt knoll
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part of optimising tick manip is you dropping the catches

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if you don't, it ends up being like 3.2 or 3.3t on average, losing around 10% xp

potent viper
# gaunt knoll if you don't, it ends up being like 3.2 or 3.3t on average, losing around 10% xp

you would still have to on tick, this being a diary reward makes it so you just have to lose the drop part and moving part. still a lot of effort for the xp. also the highest xp/hr for fishing is very situational. the tuna/sword spot moves out of the range of the 2 mice. this still allows for you to do that but with high damage at hard. and only with 91+ fishing with my suggestion do you get an ability to not take a lot of damage. This keeps fishing xp at the rates they are but with a few QoL that makes it nice from a diary.

gaunt knoll
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wdym high damage

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you just pray melee

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and 91 fishing isn't very high

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easy mort reward: have a spot that doesn't in meiyerditch that as you fish the citizens take the catch.

med: allow the spot to speed up to be 3t like barbarian

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this doesn't make sense to me

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there are either 2 interpretations of this

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either you mean

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a) a spot that doesn't move, and is automatically 3t

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or b) you mean that you can't normally 3t harpoon

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which i mean, you technically can yes

potent viper
gaunt knoll
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you didn't suggest that it was typeless until literally right now

potent viper
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it dont move but you still have to tick manip to use

potent viper
gaunt knoll
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i think they would complain about your suggestion regardless of if you take damage or not

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because it would be useless

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there's no point of 2 ticking for 99 hits

potent viper
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thats the funny thing. people who have high/max complain about my ideas, but those under under about 90 fishing like them

gaunt knoll
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this being a diary reward makes it so you just have to lose the drop part and moving part. still a lot of effort for the xp.
a lot less exp though

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yea because people like free exp without putting in the work

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lol

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idk why i typed exp i meant effort

potent viper
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no because the gameplay sucks. there is not enough reward for the effort.

gaunt knoll
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going from learning 3t to 3t+drop is probably the hardest difficulty spike out of 3t barb

potent viper
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its why there such a drop off after a league

gaunt knoll
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no it's because people get burned out by leagues

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and because leagues is easier, so they leave leagues when it's done to play the main game and go "i cba putting effort in" and leave

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there absolutely is enough reward, literally a whole ass 67% more xp/hr

potent viper
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why do they get burned out? most of the ones i talked to still played the same. they told me that the gameplay just isnt rewarding enough in the main. but maybe you met others.

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i like the idea of speeding it up, because i dont want to spend 50+ hours getting 1 thing. there is no point in it taking that long. if your going to have a click intensive make it work with the game and not with a bug abuse. tick manip is still technically a bug.

gaunt knoll
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i mean for example, if someone came up with an idea along the lines of "if you go 2x dry on a raids mega rare you get an untradeable version of the drop guaranteed" i would be pretty annoyed about that

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because i dont want to spend 50+ hours getting 1 thing. there is no point in it taking that long.
ok then dont do it

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also 1t prayer flicking and lazy flicking are both considered bug abuse too fyi

potent viper
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its one of the few things i have left to do in the game that isnt pvm. and all it does is make me go and play a diff game. they want this game to grow but the same high lvl players vote to gatekeep content that drives players away.

potent viper
gaunt knoll
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lol

potent viper
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i can use them easy, still shouldn't work

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not saying just give it to me, saying make some qol or content that isnt as bad as current. they just stated that the drop part is 10% of the xp. so your saying a med diary isn't worth 10% xp increse?

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if that is the case, take away the seers teleport. that is a massive increase in agility xp.

gaunt knoll
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if it's 10% more xp on afking sure i'm ok with that

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10% less than tick manip though? that's quite a big deal

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considering a lot of shitters love saying "omg rsi though what about my fingers my elderly fingers" or whatever nonsense

potent viper
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you still have to tick manip with what i was proposing. still a lot of effort. just takes away moving and dropping. still got a lot of work to do.

gaunt knoll
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no lol

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3t without dropping is infinitely easier than 3t with drop

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once you can do 3t+drop you also realise the effect that dropping items has

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you start to care more about 0t low prio actions in the game

potent viper
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im against it as its already locked behind a massive quest series.

gaunt knoll
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i think learning how to do the vampyre quest series is probably less effort than learning how to do a 0 toa run with budget gear

potent viper
gaunt knoll
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seers isn't bis for agility at any point though

potent viper
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it is.

image.png
gaunt knoll
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no it's not

potent viper
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for 20 levels its the best xp f

gaunt knoll
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it really isn't

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and before you mention sepulchre being difficult

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and as someone who literally takes like 10x longer than the average person to learn things

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i did f1 without mistakes on first try

potent viper
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no seplulchre is great as is.

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Just if your going to lock content behind a diaries, make the diaries help you get to the end of it. it just makes no sense to me that after doing all these quests to get vyrewatch just to have another lock because its crowded. then what was the point of the quest.

gaunt knoll
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to unlock sepulchre i imagine

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you don't actually need to complete the quest to do vyres i'm p sure

potent viper
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wasn't that bug abuse, the allow it for tick manip. so that is a weird point to bring up.

potent viper
gaunt knoll
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no the boss is hard because phase 2 is a dps check

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but you just skip dps check by bringing brews

potent viper
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yes you have to dps with a bad wep

gaunt knoll
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literally i facetanked every single acidic bloodveld and darkness special and still ended the fight with spare brews

potent viper
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still a great way to lock the content, instead of having 91 fishing and 80 crafting. (cant remember the rest of the diary reqs.)

gaunt knoll
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79 crafting but yes

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and the rest are negligible

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80 firemaking is what brand new hcims get on day 1

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83 magic is 0 time

potent viper
gaunt knoll
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and 70 def + 70 [some other combat stat] is also trivial

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they were referring to when i said that not dropping items while doing tick manip until the end is around 10% xp loss

potent viper
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i mean, i dont even kill them for the shards. have yet to get one to date and im way over drop. i kill them for their other drops. if i want blood shards it was easier to do thieving.

gaunt knoll
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yea

potent viper
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but at easy you cant manip the spot

gaunt knoll
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why not

potent viper
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not auto, still have to manip it

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just no dropping

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still have to provide everything else.

gaunt knoll
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that was initially how i interpreted it too

potent viper
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so your still screwing up tars and cbow stocks

gaunt knoll
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33% less sounds fair

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make it equiv to 4t

potent viper
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why? its behind a diary and a few quests.

gaunt knoll
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a medium diary

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and a quest that early game accounts do

potent viper
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still have to get barb training

gaunt knoll
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which you can do off-rip on a new account what

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like unless you're an ironman there's no way you can't unlock barb fishe day 1

potent viper
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still have to get the barb lvls also

gaunt knoll
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unlocking leaping salmon is like 4-5h max of fishing

potent viper
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i mean isn't that what fishing is currently?

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no it can go way higher as level increases

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ahh full afk is about 55k at lvl 80 fishing

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that is with me banking at mount q. very little down time im at 55k, so add a lil to it maybe 60k at 80.

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still not a bad thing to have. fishing is a slow skill compared to most of the others and has almost no basically no potential for profit in it. what is the highest money/hr in fishing 300k?

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why can't it be faster?

gaunt knoll
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wdym slow skill

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wtf

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tfw uim herblore 8k xp/hr

potent viper
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make it so you have to interact. not that hard.

potent viper
gaunt knoll
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tfw casual slayer on a main is 20k xp/hr

potent viper
gaunt knoll
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"one of the slowest

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"

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20k vs 70k very true

potent viper
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na, if you give a means in the diary to help you get the unlocks then support. otherwise just more gatekeeping on already gatekept content.

potent viper
gaunt knoll
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2t dark crabs is pretty big on some iron accs

potent viper
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even locking bloodshards behind 91, still piss poor compared to slayer.

gaunt knoll
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and you're a main lol

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slayer doesn't unlock anything for you

potent viper
gaunt knoll
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there is no way you just said that

potent viper
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its like number 20 on the gp/hr list. its not in a bad place

gaunt knoll
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24 but sure

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this reminds me of when a teacher got me to sign up for my school's 100m sprint contest

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i got 3rd place.

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out of 4 people.

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the 4th guy was fat

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just bc i got 3rd doesnt mean i was in any way shape or form athletic

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nor was my 3rd place anything to brag about

potent viper
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95 slayer unlockes that, or gargs or kurasks. i value those unlockes. you proposing a lock to a slow skill that doesn't even have to do with the skill.

gaunt knoll
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does literally any other diary other than the desert diary give a reward that helps you get the other diary tasks done

potent viper
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either way, gonna keep it a no vote. if you want a yes vote, make it so it gives something to fishing. its already locked right

gaunt knoll
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why fishing

potent viper
gaunt knoll
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arguably 80 slayer takes longer than 91 fishing

potent viper
gaunt knoll
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wat

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yep

potent viper
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thats the thing, from my point of view and a lot of people that i talk to (not all and i understand that) this game is not enjoyable as is. RS3 went to shit, this game is so scared to do anything to upset the status quo that it is held in crap. and then the top 10% of the community proposed more time gates because they already have it. it makes people just not join/stay.

So many of the people are in limbo just waiting for a patch to make some sort of the content they hate just marginally better. had 4 friends start loggin in again constant because of the forestry update. Same could be done with fishing. Or mining.

but o well, will keep voting on the polls and see what comes. this proposal has a hard NO from me. just more gatekeeping to content that people enjoy and will push them into the void.

gaunt knoll
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pov pnm req = priest in peril

potent viper
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ehh dont care to debate anymore. we all said our piece. just gonna keep voting as is and see where this game goes.

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from your view point sure.

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for your view point. mine is im still working towards stuff just it doesn't have to be the insane grinds. but to each their own.

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i have done the best xp methods. they arn't nearly rewarding for their lack of enjoyment of the game. spending hours doing the 4 same clicks for 3t barbarian, if you enjoyed that more power to you i guess.

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that statement just is in counter of what we were just discussing. isn't it a reward in the form of a diary. the only real reward to fishing is mort diary and 99 fishing.

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because it seems the most vocal of the community would hate it and it wouldnt even get to a vote because jagex would hear that instead of the people that are quiet and would vote for it.

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i can get behind that, but the quests are a requirement. but that isn't enough apparently.

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there is to much in diaries that locks content that people just strait up hate to do. come up with a different lock. diaries suck

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diaries are the problem with this proposal. maybe a localized diary for that. diaries cover so much content and a ton of it no body wants to do. not that they can't do it, just no want.

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iirc the seers is the lowest completed diary and that is just because of BA.

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that is awesome, but how about localizing the diaries more then. for the amount of content they change.

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yes. that was an example. not mad about it. was frustrated that the quest wasn't enough for it. the quest series has enough to do that its double the diary, and then you have a diary ontop.

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i dont mind locks, but diaries are so broad and have not really focus on the content. its like the barrows, yes its in mort but why cant we do tasks in barrows to improve it. same with combat achieves. it is nice for all bossing, but you do all this stuff to finish barrows and get nothing really for barrows.

civic lake
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🍿

potent viper
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if you want to lock vyrewatch, lets think of tasks to do just in instead of doing the diaries.

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i dont think your reading...

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go arround and complete tasks for the citizens or free slaves. there are things that could be implemented but no, just lock it behind a skill that takes hous, that will do.

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diaries are a massive issure in my book to the health of the game. but we dissagree, i get that.

civic lake
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Diaries are a massive issue because you level up skills and get perks for it?

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Interesting take

potent viper
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im more thinking this is a quick bandaid than a solution. a bot will quickly just be wrote to complete the med diaries.

potent viper
civic lake
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So yeah I do mining , to get noted wilderness bones

Or do Fletching to get unlimited teleport to statues in the desert

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I agree that skills take forever

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Especially when it gets to elite

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But I wouldn't say diary rewards being the method of unlocking perks are detrimental to the game. Mainly because none of them hold back your progress

gaunt knoll
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you either do 2t swordfish or 2t dark crabs

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or 2.5t barb which is just slightly barely worse

sudden iris
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"diaries are bad cuz they reward skilling up to a milestone"

civic lake
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yeah i wont argue about the 90+ reqs taking forever to get is a pain and some things should be given earlier

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but to say rewarding people for completing area specific tasks with area specific rewards is bad...i dunno