Occult going from 0 to 10% is the biggest outlier
#Rebalance Occult
verbal ravine
oak goblet
you can literally argue that for any piece of new content
verbal ravine
Name the item upgrade that fits that profile
oak goblet
avernic, blood fury, Hydra gloves, bowfa, any zenyte jewelry, berserker ring, fang, inquisitor, elidnis ward, shadow, need I keep going?
torva, masori, ancestral, the soon to be new rings, staff of the dead and all it's variants, accursed sceptre
verbal ravine
Please do the math on these items
quaint vector
none of those except shadow and maybe fang are even comparable to occult's marginal upgrade
quaint vector
and even fang isn't really an "upgrade" strictly
verbal ravine
Name the item that is 43% of that combat styles max boost
quaint vector
you're forgetting that weapons with magic bonus already exist
oak goblet
staff of the dead, nighmare staff is 15% mage bonus
quaint vector
other neck items do not
so a new 15% magic weapon is not better than an existing one
oak goblet
well yes, because there is no other mage necklace
verbal ravine
Yeah that example list actually shows you don't understand what we are saying
quaint vector
yes and that's kind of the point LOL
oak goblet
occult is the defacto mage necklace item
you want me to give you a list of mage necklaces? Sure
[]
quaint vector
okay sure but why does the defacto mage neck item have such a huge bonus and sky-high accessibility compared to other magic bonus gear
verbal ravine
Name the range, mage or melee armour piece/jewellery that represents 43% of your max possible armour boost like the occult
oak goblet
what are you considering high accessibility?
oak goblet
Name the range, mage or melee armour piece/jewellery that represents 43% of you...
where are you getting 43%? any bonuses attributed to shadow are because of well, the shadow
verbal ravine
where are you getting 43%? any bonuses attributed to shadow are because of well,...
1 sec
chrome ether
you want me to give you a list of mage necklaces? Sure
[]
Necklace of Magic
verbal ravine
I'll just link what I said before
oak goblet
Necklace of Magic
damn, you got me there
quaint vector
occult's accessibility is only remotely proportionate to its power for irons
hence my suggestion that it would have made more sense as an untradeable
chrome ether
That's a design issue by itself - We only got one necklace and its big + comes very easily from the normal smoke devils
quaint vector
yes
verbal ravine
.
oak goblet
if you're going to do a powercreep item, you need to make it have a running cost
verbal ravine
The occult issue applied to melee
chrome ether
Haki is right, the item is extremely accessible and powerful for its cost/time to obtain.
verbal ravine
Step by step how things should be balanced
oak goblet
and Kingz, for that example, yes there are actually similar mage equivalents:
tome of fire for +50% mage damage.
smoke staff for +10% standard spell damage
mage arena 2 cape, untradable 15 accuracy and 2% mage damage
brimstone ring, giving a 10% accuracy for mage
zenyte bracelets for 5% mage damage
as well as the 15% damage bonus staves, staff of the dead, staff of light, balance, nightmare staff, kodai etc
quaint vector
how is 2% from cape similar at all
oak goblet
what other mage cape are you going to use
quaint vector
i think you're missing the entire point tbh
oak goblet
it's an untradable, something you seem to want occult to be
quaint vector
it's not about "what other item are you going to use"
verbal ravine
Happy to just disagree on this one
oak goblet
mage is extremely limited
quaint vector
yes, that is actually part of the problem of occult being 10% and easy to get
it makes mage more limited
oak goblet
trident is easy to get, should they nerf that too?
quaint vector
because any future mage upgrades have to take into account occult being busted as hell for its cost
oak goblet
occult being 10% means that any future upgrades will use that as a baseline
chrome ether
You mentioned brimstone ring, which has literally no use. You mentioned the staves that don't add anything to tridents + are mostly wildy locked.
It's a problem with mage as a whole. They never balanced it right and with many stages. Instead, they got a lot of niche items.
All of this supports what Haki said.
quaint vector
yes, and that's a problem when the raids bis is 2% per slot lol
the point is literally right there
you are refusing to see it because you think smoke battlestaff is relevant for some reason
quaint vector
personally i don't even dislike 10% on occult, i support upgrades that feel powerful
but it's just far too common for how good it is
oak goblet
you have one in collection log?
chrome ether
Yessir
chrome ether
Don't want to nerf Occult? That's fine, but normal smoke devils are the biggest cause of why they're so accessible.
They shouldn't be.
quaint vector
yeah
removing it from the normal drop table wouldn't solve the problem but it would go a long way
oak goblet
realistically, the problem with mage is not that 10% is waaay overtuned, it's that the only viable mage options are overtuned and anything else is irrelevant. It's been the problem with mage for decades, and it only gets worse as more powered staves enter the field
quaint vector
no, the problem is that you don't seem to understand the concept of marginal gain per slot
and per cost
chrome ether
The reason why they suggested rebalancing is because shadow is too strong for them to just buff everything across the board.
If you give another 10% mdmg to Ancestral/Boots/Ring, which isn't that much by itself, shadow is capped everywhere now.
It's very strong already before a 25% buff if you didn't know.
oak goblet
Shadow is literally the mage item of the trifecta, saying that something that buffs shadow is saying that assembler is broken for adding max hits onto the tbow
Shadow has and will be a problem until we get powercreeped gear, that's just bound to happen
but consider that upon release, shadow had to be buffed, not once but twice because it wasn't performing as the heavy hitter they wanted it to be
oak goblet
no, the problem is that you don't seem to understand the concept of marginal gai...
and no, it's not that I'm not understanding the concept of marginal gain per slot"
chrome ether
You know Shadow makes Tbow's scaling look like a chump right? +2 Ranged STR doesn't mean jack when Occult is like 15 max hits for Shadow 🙂
chrome ether
Those 15% weapons are barely ever used
because 15% means nothing when its locked to spells, not trident
quaint vector
also why tome isn't really relevant outside of pvp
chrome ether
I dont think Jagex is going buff Ancestral without nerfing Occult, which is why this post exists.
Same for buffing Augury
quaint vector
augury is actually pretty ok tbh
chrome ether
They've had years to buff Augury and this was before Shadow. They certainly won't now. Augury being only magic accuracy and 0.3% DPS at Warden is kind of... sad when you compare to Rigour.
quaint vector
i don't really feel like augury needs changes the same way the rest of magic damage bonus does
it's leveled itself out to a reasonable price point based on its power
which cannot be said of occult
oak goblet
consider the less optimal setup for occult, 95 magic, using fire surge, the highest spell on the standard spellbook
Fire surge does a max hit of 24. Occult adds 2.4 damage.
Trident already does 28 out the gate.
By default powered staves not only are cheaper, but deal more damage. And this is the problem with mage. Because you can't really buff one without buffing the offending problem
chrome ether
It's also like 3% DPS at Olm with Sang
so overall very weak compared to Piety/Rigour.
quaint vector
oh no i agree that it's the weakest of the three offensive prayers
i just mean that specifically in the context of magic i don't actually think that needs to be changed
it could probably be improved but it's not a problem
oak goblet
augury is perfectly fine as a prayer. In fact, I'm against augury giving % mage damage
it's gonna trigger the fuck out of everyone's OCD, but
it doesn't need to be a generic damage prayer
foggy silo
avernic, blood fury, Hydra gloves, bowfa, any zenyte jewelry, berserker ring, fa...
Nate these are terrible items
chrome ether
consider the less optimal setup for occult, 95 magic, using fire surge, the high...
That's not really an issue, they can make a necklace that balances each style separately.
Imagine if Occult 2 had 15% mdmg overall, but replaced by 50% increase on standard, 25% on Ancients, 50% on Arceuus. They already did this with Virtus.
Virtus does this
3% overall, 12% for Ancients
It's not really a novel concept.
oak goblet
yes, spellbook specific damage is fine. We've had that for years. Unfortunately, it just doesn't scale up against powered staves
quaint vector
why should it?
chrome ether
No, what I'm saying is that if they want to buff it up separately, they can. You said you can't buff without buffing the offending problem, I'm saying you can.
Augury is anything but fine comparatively, and they can also make it like this above, where you get a cap on max hits based on what you're doing. Tridents only get 3 max hits ever, Spells get 15.
Then they can always add more Ice Demon + Guardian monsters that are only weak to a specific spell or item.
Balance and design is very flexible.
oak goblet
standard spells would have to be buffed at least 16% to even be comparable to trident level. And then they're twice as expensive
not to mention the 25% buff that staves have because of the attack speed
chrome ether
Take a look at Ice Demon - It doesn't need to be that complicated
You can design around this.
Always thought it was weird Ice Giants and Ice Knights aren't just nuked by fire spells, but then Ancient Warriors in Nex Chambers are weak to Fire Surge?
oak goblet
Sorry, I was wrong
Standard spells would have to be buffed 41% to match the DPS of a Trident
oak goblet
Name the range, mage or melee armour piece/jewellery that represents 43% of you...
So there you have it.
Trident is a single item upgrade that gives you that 41% difference
chrome ether
That's still fine. Make it 50% increased damage on Ice Warriors
And that's not what he's asking 😆
he said armor/jewelry
You can otherwise make the same argument that tbow is like 200% over msbi
verbal ravine
So there you have it.
Trident is a single item upgrade that gives you that 41% d...
Trident max hit vs ice barrage
Infact no
Dw
Your right bro
Cba to do this
I get baited into these things too easily
😂
verbal ravine
he said armor/jewelry
I didn't even want to say thus but yeah. Answering a whole different question
foggy silo
So there you have it.
Trident is a single item upgrade that gives you that 41% d...
Nate ice barrage and a trident are two completely different things. Since one sacrifices higher max hits for mobbing abilities
oak goblet
But that's nowhere similar. Why?
Trident, boss drop, requires slayer level to kill. Objective upgrade over the alternative.
Occult, boss drop, requires slayer level, objective upgrade over the alternative (there really is none)
Both are farmed through slayer, and are cheap because of daily income, and aren't consumed
Who said ice barrage
foggy silo
Who said ice barrage
Ur mother
oak goblet
I didn't even bring ancients into this, it's a whole different breed because of the multi target and utility
foggy silo
If this is about the occult it’s singlehandedly the best upgrade for its style and slot in the entire game
chrome ether
But what Haki has been saying is true because no other style has such a large concentration of its non-weapon power being in one item.
Melee has it nicely split out, with the least on pants + boots.
Range has it very nicely laid out, with only anguish being +5 and the others being 2-4 (rip boots and ring)
oak goblet
You mean +12 on barrows gloves, 8 on bring, 8 on fury, 6 on defender? At base, barrows gloves give higher max hit bonus than occult does on the highest standard spell
The issue is that tridents just utilize this bonus better
So I feel like your problem is less with the occult and more how occult synergizes with the stronger mage equipment
There is no: mage bonus ring, mage bonus boots, one mage cape, and only one mage bonus set. Yes, % mage damage is lacking, but we had just received the first mage bonus offhand
But your suggestion is to nerf the only existing bauble?
pallid glacier
How is this thread still going lmfao
honestly just needs to be locked, the simple solution is leave occult as it is
oak goblet
Agreed
pallid glacier
There is no: mage bonus ring, mage bonus boots, one mage cape, and only one mage...
yeh people don't think very hard when posting stuff here sadly
The only decent resolution in this entire thread has been to move some of it to other items of similar difficulty to obtain
but that's not even needed lol
if people cared about balance, they wouldn't have voted yes to things like shadow, fang, tbow, scythe, blood fury, and the list goes on
so just slap some more on other gear and leave occult alone
yall voted for shadow though
soo
but since you guys post so hard in here everyday you get your way hey
kinda bogus
all this cry because virtus makes ancestral seem not as worth it
So why go after the minor items?
Go after the things that are actually unbalanced
oak goblet
People complained when shadow didn't meet their expectations. Double mage strength and accuracy was already nuts. But triple? And 4x inside Toa?
pallid glacier
yeh give it 3 years and people will complain about how it isnt strong enough, just the same as how scythe was busted before
oak goblet
And occult has been a staple for far longer
pallid glacier
Imo its weird that there is hardly any middle ground between mystic/trident and ancestral/shadow
where as all other combat styles have lots of in between gears
depends if its 1/2k from a bullshit boss or not
foggy silo
You mean +12 on barrows gloves, 8 on bring, 8 on fury, 6 on defender? At base, b...
14+ ferocious gloves vs 12+ barrows vs 6+ combat bracelet (in terms of chronological update order), Str bonus plateaued at 10 for the necklace slot a long time ago with a strength, but +8 fury vs +6 glory. +8 Avernic vs +7 DFS vs +6 Dragon Defender. The difference between all of these things relative to all the other gear they have is that these upgrades build upon the previous whilst typically adding minimal upgrade over their predecessors in most situations. (Even the fact that barrows gloves were an actual multi-style type of upgrade)
The occult necklace out of the gate had a minimum of 3+ max hits attached to it as the first and only upgrade in the necklace slot that actually impacted mage significantly, to the point where it is without a doubt the first and most necessary upgrade doing any piece of content where mage even slightly matters. It quite literally went from 0 - 100 real fast and remains the only item within it's own tier of an upgrade.
I actually don't care what happens to the occult at this point in time, but it's extremely strange that it takes 4 piece of mage gear prior to toa to overtake the str bonus on the occult by 1% and I'd rather all other gear gain more str with a rebalancing for the sake of variety and real progression.
pallid glacier
oh no, +3 max hits on the only thing to provide a max hit on its own
every other bit of mage bonus requires a combination
really not that big of a deal lmfao
oak goblet
Ok. Realistically, if they were to add better mage jewelry, it needs to consume a resource, be a boss drop, and either be more damage trading off defense or offer utility
pallid glacier
look at literally any other bit of + str bonus on other combat styles, they all individually provide max hits
I don't even see what the big deal is about going from a 31 to a 34?
foggy silo
yeh give it 3 years and people will complain about how it isnt strong enough, ju...
Also I'm pretty sure post tob, scythe was regarded to more honest than the tbow since it required a higher set up cost (def red.) to perform similar to other melee weapons. Also also I voted for the heka
pallid glacier
Also I'm pretty sure post tob, scythe was regarded to more honest than the tbow ...
yeh people complaining about it though because its not broken op like the other 2 weapons that need a nerf that will never happen
osrs community is so out of touch it's not even funny
instead of bringing things down a notch, they just want straight up buffs and call it "qol"
pisses me off that people are asking for occult nerf, even if the arguments they present have some validity. It is not the problem here
foggy silo
pisses me off that people are asking for occult nerf, even if the arguments they...
But it's an occult rebalancing
pallid glacier
a nerf isn't a rebalance, just call it a nerf
foggy silo
Well it's a magic style rebalancing tbh
pallid glacier
but thats what you are asking for with this post? that isn't a good thing
it affects everyone negatively because they will just have to pay even more gp for 3 max hits
making magic pretty bad for the average player who isn't playing 10 hours a day
foggy silo
Not exactly, if other mage gear gets bonuses we can see a net bonus in mage damage for other armor sets like dagon hai, elder chaos robes, even the mage arena capes
pallid glacier
ma2 cape buff will never happen, yall hate going wildy
foggy silo
Bitch I love the wildy
pallid glacier
Not exactly, if other mage gear gets bonuses we can see a net bonus in mage dama...
I think the goal should be to add new ways of getting % damage
rather than just nerfing occult
and I don't know if I agree with just adding it to robes
what will happen to virtus and ancestral then?
everyone asks for them to be buffed? and then shadow becomes even more broken
there is no easy way about this that doesn't affect some part of the community in a significant way, it's just a matter of which community is going to lose out
foggy silo
Ancestral and virtus would possibly increase, ancestral to 3-4 and virtus to 2-3, dagon hai potentially to 2, elder and ahrims to 1.
Off the top of my head
pallid glacier
ahrims would never get it, barrows has never had strength bonus
I guess the staff does but that's still weird
I think Dagon Hai is a good candidate
verbal ravine
a nerf isn't a rebalance, just call it a nerf
A magic rebalance has nerfs and buffs
pallid glacier
If I had to pick any robes that would make the most sense, it would be dagon hai since it is high risk high reward to obtain
and is currently garbage. it doesn't provide higher accuracy than ahrims, but would make up for it in % damage
verbal ravine
Working it backwards is funny
foggy silo
and is currently garbage. it doesn't provide higher accuracy than ahrims, but wo...
yes
verbal ravine
To bring occult in line....but everything
When they start eating 60 barrages in pvp they'll understand
pallid glacier
Q: Straight
O: Up
L: Buffs
verbal ravine
The fuck 😂
pallid glacier
tldr shadow ruined magic, not occult
you can't do creative things with magic gear because shadow makes it a disaster
verbal ravine
Nah magic was always 'bad' for flat pvm dps.
Occult was still broken relatively to the progression
Two things can be true
pallid glacier
When they start eating 60 barrages in pvp they'll understand
I wouldnt call 3 max hits broken
foggy silo
I wouldnt call 3 max hits broken
Virtus
pallid glacier
Why is it any different to getting dbowed a 96 by a 30 defence pure?
verbal ravine
I wouldnt call 3 max hits broken
Nah I'm saying if you buff everything so occults relative strength makes sense , then you end up with a disgusting figure
pallid glacier
Nah I'm saying if you buff everything so occults relative strength makes sense ,...
Pretty sure the majority of the community don't give a damn about how hard you can hit in pvp, sadly, because they voted yes to everything that currently makes pvp almost unplayable
so even if you're right, and it sounds insane to me, it's not like it matters anyway
foggy silo
The new prayers (one really) would have made pking / pvp a nightmare
pallid glacier
new blog post is awful
verbal ravine
Rough math but you would need to make the total boost 66% for occult to be in line with where anguish and torture are
pallid glacier
can you show your math?
verbal ravine
And that's before weapon damage %
pallid glacier
doesn't help anyone to just say "Rough math"
verbal ravine
Occult = 10% increase which is 43% of max boost 23 ,
Torture is 15% of max strength bonus
verbal ravine
Sorry I will make it simple, at work atm lol
foggy silo
technically str ammy needs a nerf
pallid glacier
Occult = 10% increase which is 43% of max boost 23 ,
This just proves a point I made a day or two ago, amulets have always been the highest damage boost of any slot
foggy silo
uh
most of the str in melee is in the glove slot
and you can actually argue that a masori body vs anguish are competitive with each other
verbal ravine
Occult = 43% of max boost , torture = 15% of max boost.
To make occult 15% of magic without nerf then you need to make max magic boost 0.1/0.15
Aka make 10% worth 15% of your max
pallid glacier
Look, I am all for the nerf to occult but ONLY if there is a solution that doesn't make magic completely unusable by casuals and new players in the context of pvm
but right now all this suggestion will do is make the prices of other magic gear sky rocket
and also add stupidly long grinds to ironman just for no real good reason
verbal ravine
So occult becomes balanced relatively if BIS gives 66%
pallid glacier
yes, lowering cap on shadow good
we haven't even reached the cap yet outside of TOA
foggy silo
There is the thing about expensive gear though, if gear is expensive to obtain then farming the gear is good gp for those players.
pallid glacier
There is the thing about expensive gear though, if gear is expensive to obtain t...
the suggestions have been to put it on eternals. Casuals arent doing cerberus
same goes for actually getting the occult too mind you
verbal ravine
the suggestions have been to put it on eternals. Casuals arent doing cerberus
Don't do that lol
The suggestion is to spread it
pallid glacier
spread it to where though?
quaint vector
delete occult and make torms 15%
foggy silo
I find casuals doing cerb, unless you meant low level players
foggy silo
because you can be casual and have very high stats / slayer level or you can be competitive / trying harder and have lower level stats.
pallid glacier
I find casuals doing cerb, unless you meant low level players
Rank 100,000 slayer is 77
foggy silo
Like casual and low level = Giant Mole, Casual and high level = hydra, thermy, and cerb
pallid glacier
rank 300,000 is 19 slayer
rank 50,000 is 91 slayer
so I think you will find
that casuals are absolutely not doing cerb or thermy
oh that was just for ironman too
sec
foggy silo
There are also players who play a lot but dont touch certain skills or bosses.
quaint vector
where are you getting these numbers from i'm 93 slayer and rank 265k
pallid glacier
I just said that was for just ironman
quaint vector
i see
foggy silo
a maxed player could have casually played his way up to his account over the years, a more competitive player could also ingnore his skills and focus on the content he wants to do
pallid glacier
so rank 3,000,000 is level 33 slayer for normal accounts
pallid glacier
where are you getting these numbers from i'm 93 slayer and rank 265k
so less than 10% of the player base has the level to kill thermy, and even less for cerb
I couldn't find a rank for 5,000,000
this is why I argue that it isn't just easy to obtain
it is easy to obtain if you have the level
quaint vector
sure less than 10% of the player base has the level to kill thermy but once you do have the level to kill smokes in general you're shitting out occults from your regular slayer tasks
pallid glacier
baby smokes probably makes the most sense
foggy silo
Really skills are just an example of our priorities and what we dedicate time to rather than an indicator of how somebody plays. Boss kcs are more exemplary of such
quaint vector
it would be different if smokes were just a bad taskb
pallid glacier
if it changes it from a 1 hour grind, to a 30 hour grind that's fine
quaint vector
but theyre literally some of the best exp at that point
so you get tons of them coming in even though it's technically locked behind 93 slayer
because it's just a byproduct of training
foggy silo
We also have to be aware that we have only so many active players versus all time players
pallid glacier
I would only be happy with the 10% costing 10-15m, max 20m, over the 1m it is currently
but more than that is breaking accessability for most people into magic as a combat style
quaint vector
its like 500k rn
pallid glacier
looks like it's gone down since I last bought one
foggy silo
I don't think accessibility is really an issue anymore, since toa truly prints money for even the banana 5 doers
pallid glacier
the average person can't figure out how to make more than 300k
per hour*
lets be honest, if you want this fix to pass just put the solution on an afk activity that prints alchables and isn't in the wilderness
foggy silo
Are you saying that the average osrs player (post 2019) is a failure ?
pallid glacier
Are you saying that the average osrs player (post 2019) is a failure ?
it's really common to see people using broad bolts because of gp
they nerfed blowpipe
foggy silo
Yeah I remember doing the same, but it's because of the mentality I had before realizing (money = faster, so spend now to save later)
pallid glacier
Yeah I remember doing the same, but it's because of the mentality I had before r...
right but most people are still in the stone age and think that they have to save gp as much as they can, instead of getting levels so things die faster and give more gp
foggy silo
I was in this position same as them with even less means of mobility, but I understood that and played off my strengths to actually get somewhere
pallid glacier
like I have at least 3 people that I actively talk to that I remind regularly that justiciar is a terrible upgrade
they still roll around in obby cape
foggy silo
Yeah, it's mainly an information gap that only increases ever since the lockdown.
pallid glacier
"but its cheaper than bandos"
legit I got that response from 1 of them
if you go to gnome stronghold slayer cave
you will find 1 person every 3 worlds safespotting bloodvelds with broad bolts
not kidding either, because I went there to troll with locator orb
id much rather these guys buy an occult and go bossing because it is viable
then they stick around and become long term players
tired wave
this is why I argue that it isn't just easy to obtain
price says otherwise
doesnt matter if less than 10% can kill the npc when the people that can kill it can kill so many /hr
- best slayer xp or one of the best
tired wave
I don't think accessibility is really an issue anymore, since toa truly prints m...
also this
if u actually get into pvm
it really isnt hard to make bills with toa nowadays
verbal ravine
balanced xp and balanced BIS 
vagrant lotus
why don't you go check the dps calc and cost for mage compared to range or melee. Usually price from cheapest to expensive (when using) is melee>range(arrows/bolts)>mage(runes) and dps is range>melee>mage. 2% dps on an amulet? Okay, but are you going to show us your calcs for other gear in melee/range? Of course not, because you haven't actually bothered to do it. Besides, occult is not "easy to get". Tell that to ironmen who have to get 93 slayer first. Or are we going to dismiss a large portion of the player base just because it doesn't fit your narrative?
split tide
i mean
ok let's not exaggerate things here
93 slayer is not that insane difficulty to obtain
most of slayer - especially on an iron, is done passively
vagrant lotus
93 slayer is not **that** insane difficulty to obtain
ok then, starting this second, go make an ironman and let me know how many minutes/hours it takes you to get the occult amulet
vagrant lotus
ah ok 200 hours of grinding, easy. How about we keep the 10% dps and raise the grind by x10? 2000 grind for a 10% dps boost sounds fair?
maybe we could just raise the xp required on all skills by x10 instead
split tide
what even is this related to exactly
who is saying occult should be 2,000 hours?
also, if we're gonna be talking about impacts on iron accounts and thus saying "oh 93 slayer is really hard and therefore 10% is fine"
part of the reason irons need an occult is because it's such a big increase compared to other options. other options become... kinda unviable. a rebalancing of occult's damage and having it shared through other bonuses would inherently give irons an option other than "only 93 slayer"
verbal ravine
why don't you go check the dps calc and cost for mage compared to range or melee...
bro are you arguing about price or about ironmen getting slayer
because if your argument is that 93 slayer grind justifies 10% after reading the above then we're just gonna have to disagree
i am pretty sure every iron that learns cox has the occult already because its a much easier and less time consuming grind than the path to get ready for raids 1.
so arguing that the occult being 10% while full ancestral is 6% is perfectly balanced is silly
funny thing is this suggestion in its entirety would benefit ironmen progression
olive kraken
93 slayer is not really that hard. It's a time investment, sure, but difficult? No, not for any account type
If time investment is difficulty, why don't we just give a twisted bow to everyone that does 15000 birdhouse runs?
tired wave
As an Ironman, 93 slayer is not hard to obtain. You just afk and watch a show on side nothing “difficult” about it. Just long like any other grind on this game
oak goblet
this discussion gets nowhere, it's an item that has existed, for years, jagex isn't going to remove or rebalance it. It's nowhere as disruptive as black dhide or blowpipe which have since been nerfed
The item is fine, stop complaining
foggy silo
The item is fine, stop complaining
cry is free
pallid glacier
ok then, starting this second, go make an ironman and let me know how many minut...
Don't bother man, they will just dismiss with the old "game shouldn't be balanced around ironman" comment and then dumb comments like 93 slayer isn't long
vagrant lotus
bro are you arguing about price or about ironmen getting slayer
let's just cherry pick things, let's focus on the fact that ancestral robes give a crap magic % bonus and that in general in games rings/amulets are supposed to focus on either damage or special abilities, and armor is supposed to protect you with defensive capabilities, let's ignore the 42 stab 31 slash 51 crush 28 mage def bonus of ancestral top while occult amulet has literally zero and 2 pray bonus, or ancestral top gives 35 mage att -8 range (irrelevant since you're maging) but occult amulet gives +12 mage attack and even so, ancestral and mage armor in general have pretty crappy bonuses compared to something like bandos chestplate 98 stab 93 slash 105 crush 133 range def. Mage armor is just bad in general. raid purples are too hard to get, too grindy in my opinion. And ignore the fact that the general bad damage bonus of mage armor is the reason why jagex came up with tumeken's passive ability - so that armor like ancestral actually makes a difference and is worth buying. And at the same time make occult even more overpowered. Is it great for non-ironman? Hell yeah. But very hard to get for ironman, takes months to get 93 slayer. Same way it would take you months to get ancestral robes. And in a fight between someone with occult and someone with ancestral robes, i'll root for ancestral. Unless you put in ahrims which means it's occult+ahrim grind vs ancestral grind and that's not fair. for ironmen. Try mystic +occult vs ancestral+glory
tired wave
I mean you’re gonna have virtus
That is budget ancestral
Long does not mean it’s hard
This game is literally a game focused on long grinds
oak goblet
ancestral is more than just their magic %, they're the highest mage accuracy robes in the game
Ancestral is almost twice the mage bonus of mystic, not to mention crazy high defense stats for robes. Ahrims just barely beats it in defense, being chain
for comparason, occult gives 1/3rd the magic attack the robes do, only boasting magic attack, defence, strength, and 2 prayer
the occult is fine where it is
tired wave
356m vs 481k
tired wave
what
oak goblet
I assumed you were referring to mystic/ancestral
tired wave
ancestral vs occult
oak goblet
why does that matter
you're comparing mage robes to mage jewelry, the only key comparison is that they're both mage equipment
occult is a slayer drop, just like trident, just like mask
what are you trying to argue?
tired wave
?
tormented 5% 11m
"jewlery"
its so cheap u thought i was talking about mystics 😂
tired wave
it shows how easy it is to obtain...
i mean arguing with the wrong people anyway, somehow getting 93 slayer is "hard" when all u do is afk and watch a show on the side
oak goblet
No, GE price shows how valuable something is vs how easy it is to obtain
tired wave
or if ur a main u just buy for 500k
tired wave
clearly not if jagex have already talked about nerfing it 😂
best f2p money making method can buy u an occult in 1 hour
oak goblet
this is the first I've ever heard of Jagex saying somehting about it
tired wave
arcane already said it once on a q/a
tired wave
No, GE price shows how valuable something is vs how easy it is to obtain
?
go look at toa items fang is 30m, shows how easy it is to obtain
high supply = lower price, simple economics
oak goblet
yes, that doesn't discount what I said
tired wave
it just shows how stupidly easy some stuff is to obtain
occult is so powerful but only 500k
oak goblet
ok?
oak goblet
because people aren't farming for the fang, they're farming for Shadow
tired wave
fang halved lance/rapier price with it but thats another entire argument
tired wave
because people aren't farming for the fang, they're farming for Shadow
?
do u not know how overpowered the fang is lol
it changed the meta at a few places and competes as a close BIS at others
tired wave
yes and it wouldnt be 30m if the supply was so high
tired wave
tldr; occult is too op and easy to obtain
oak goblet
I'm gonna say the same for trident. Does 50% more damage than a relevant spell of the same level
25% more because of the attack speed increase, and more because of level scaling
too op for 160k
Hey look black mask gives 15% extra damage, except there's nothing to compare it to
too easy to obtain, too op
tired wave
on slayer tasks lol...
tired wave
I'm gonna say the same for trident. Does 50% more damage than a relevant spell o...
this is more of an issuew ith the normal spellbook
the best thing would be to overhaul magic entirely, this occult suggestion is mainly a "cheap quick" fix to one of the issues
verbal ravine
i mean arguing with the wrong people anyway, somehow getting 93 slayer is "hard"...
Yeah I realised its pointless once he started listing ancestral defensive stats
I'm usually open to hear from players better than me and players earlier in their pvm path with less experience than me to try and get a balanced opinion on things.
But this is one of the conversations where it becomes a headache 😂
tired wave
the only "good" point ive heard so far was early game would be worse for mains but even that ended up being incorrect since you only lose 3% overall
which new items like ward can give u nowadays
verbal ravine
Because anyone who says 93 slayer is difficult and believes it justifies 43% of your max damage boost is just
tired wave
im still baffled people think its difficult
sure its long but every grind on this game is long lmao
- 93 slaye rgrind is long but not bad
just sit and watch a show on side
verbal ravine
If you choose to never do a boss task , you can legit get to 93 slayer by killing mobs over and over
With a cannon and barrage switch
But yeah I cba , just leave it to mods at this point. They've atleast acknowledged its a problem.
All we can do is provide our opinions of how they should address it
tired wave
exactly
oak goblet
Because anyone who says 93 slayer is difficult and believes it justifies 43% of ...
yeah, 99 range isn't hard, just click things
verbal ravine
99 ranged isn't hard...
oak goblet
also I still don't understand how 10% = 43%?
might have to revisit the numbers there mate
verbal ravine
Please do the math on it or just search 😂 I've typed it a few times now (I appreciate it's been buried in here )
oak goblet
no, you keep bringing up Shadow
verbal ravine
???
oak goblet
.1 magic strength is 10% bonus magic damage
verbal ravine
.1 magic strength is 10% bonus magic damage
10% / max damage % possible right now
oak goblet
english?
verbal ravine
No not English. Maths. Do maths
oak goblet
format that sentence in which it's meaning is conveyed better
verbal ravine
Dw I'll save us both time
oak goblet
yes, and we've explained before that the magic style is based differently. You don't get the strength of your attack through your weapon, it's based on the spell. Only a few magic staves give magic strength, but powered staves are the prime offender, because they scale double: once with your magic level and again with magic strength
you could argue the same thing that abyssal whip gives 82 strength, which is more than double what you could get with all the other slots combined
ranged again is different, the majority of your strength comes from the ammo tier
oak goblet
whereas melee and ranged slowly even out, % damage scales upwards because powered staves receive double scaling, and the fact that there will be more mage items that gives % damage
and yes, 2% is alot. For powered staves. Everywhere else it's almost irrelevant
verbal ravine
Again we are talking about rebalnce across magic as a whole
oak goblet
good luck
verbal ravine
If you genuinely want to understand what my point is there you go. It's all there
If you want to be dense then I cba 😂
oak goblet
Yes, you've already made your points, I'm not ignoring it
however your argument is misguided because it only applies to powered staves
and not the rest of the other two spellbooks
verbal ravine
Damage % impacts everything
oak goblet
did I say otherwise?
verbal ravine
however your argument is misguided because it *only* applies to powered staves
Yes?
oak goblet
yes, and we've explained before that the magic style is based differently. You d...
,.,
I feel like you're not listening to my argument
one is a raid exclusive purple, the other is a slayer monster drop. Obviously one is going to have less supply and therefore more cost
not even just the fact that powered staves have an inherent 25% damage boost because of the attack speed
verbal ravine
I feel like you're not listening to my argument
Prove your point mathematically
Because as far as I can see 2% by itself gives a max hit if the base hits 50
oak goblet
powered staves get:
magic level scaling including boosts
gear % bonus
25% dps because of attack speed
verbal ravine
31 *1.02 = 31.62 , rounds to 31
Yhuo
So everything on that list basically applies to barrage from at 99
And blindly buffing magic % creates a situation where this will forever be the case
oak goblet
no, because barrage + occult adds 3.2 damage but that's not equivalent to the same boost that trident gets. Trident gets a 12.5% increase because of the 4t attack speed. Not to mention that any and all boosts past 99 give extra
so let's say Fire surge for comparison
max hit of 24
27 with the same items
let's not use tome because that's a different category
unless you're a pker the cost is not worth using, besides trident still matches the dps for a fraction of the cost
and I'm getting to that if you'd let me explain
verbal ravine
I can't lie I don't see the point of this comparison. You said 2% is a lot for powered staves. Which as we have shown in isolation it isn't any more beneficial.
If you're arguing max hits then make a before and after max hit comparison.
If you're arguing dps then make a dps comparison (but as its been noted that's pointless since its aoe vs single target)
oak goblet
using standard gear (not including items over 20m) the max bonus mage strength is 20%
for standard spells, say Fire surge, the highest standard spell, this adds 4.8 damage (4 since the game rounds down)
and roughly 20% dps increase
you're adding 1/5th the max hit to each attack
for tridents this becomes (36*20%) 7.2 damage added to each attack
verbal ravine
Not entirely sure how you got 20% but ignoring that
36 is overloaded boosted magic
oak goblet
which increases the dps 8.75, double what you get with the previous
oak goblet
36 is overloaded boosted magic
no, actually, just occult + mage cape + torm, ward cheap items
no imbued heart, no potions
standard budget trident damage
verbal ravine
Okay so 10+2+5+3 (ward(
Trident of the swamp hits 31 not 36
With 99 mage and no bonuses
Where are you seeing 36?
verbal ravine
I got to get back to work so I can't really engage in this , but I'll just say you're comparing it the wrong way since fire spells have been balanced around tome of fire & staves damage %
oak goblet
then you're going to say "tome needs to be rebalanced because 50% mage damage"
same thing you're arguing with occult
verbal ravine
same thing you're arguing with occult
Tome is limited to one type of spell , not all
If tome applied to every single spell and powered staff...then ofcourse nerf it
oak goblet
I don't see how nerfing occult to the ground is going to help the game's health in any way
verbal ravine
I don't see how nerfing occult to the ground is going to help the game's health ...
We said rebalance
This
Like I feel the key part of the suggestion is repeatedly ignored 😂
oak goblet
same % damage but ONLY for max mage
verbal ravine
Honestly I'm not even being rude
Please just read the conversation from the top, not every message just the starting part
oak goblet
I've been here the whole time dude
oak goblet
consider this. You don't get a single max hit with mage cape until your max hit becomes 50
yes but ancestral being endgame means you'd already have the other pieces of gear already
oak goblet
5% mage damage means you get 1 max for every 20 max hit (fire wave deals 21 instead of 20)
if you want a comparison, fury gives 2 max hits, barrows gives 3 max hits, defender gives another 2
yes, because melee has more gear selections
okay, and tormented bracelet is 21% of max hit for mage. Pegs also don't give max hit either
you take from the lower items and put into the higher ones, you ruin lower level mage for everyone else
and magic becomes good only at max gear
oak goblet
took me 15 seconds just to scroll up
and you're fucking me
you want to nerf occult to 2%
Where's the button that lets me thumbs down more
tired wave
did u even read the rest?
oak goblet
yeah, push it into ancestral
oak goblet
doesn't matter, a large portion of players don't have ancestral
tired wave
which i would class as mid game
oak goblet
cost doesn't matter shit
tired wave
??? u dont need ancestral
2% mage damage loss is not going to kill u lmfao
- ud have virtus
oak goblet
in your original post you said reduce occult from 10% to 2%
tired wave
yes moved to other places
like ma2 cape, augury etc
only 3% of it would go to ancestral
2% of it which would be inaccessible for mid game players for a bit (top/bottom)
oak goblet
why do we need % mage damage on augury
tired wave
hat/ward/augury etc is obtainable
oak goblet
is your ocd so bad that it triggers over missing a pattern?
tired wave
because it is useless, again its just a suggestion could be something else like eternals
what
tired wave
well i dont care as long as occult damage % is spread out
oak goblet
if anything it needs it's prayer drain reduced
tired wave
because 10% for a 500k item is absurd
oak goblet
not gonna happen. You're gonna fuck over a bunch of people so that you feel better about the distribution
price does not matter
tired wave
i mean u cant even read the suggestion so no point caryring on this argument
we were arguing with u for 30 minutes when all u read was the title
im out
tired wave
gonna laugh so hard when its nerfed
oak goblet
verbal ravine
did u even read the rest?
He didn't or he's too early into the osrs cycle to understand
Like you can honestly tell by the examples being given
verbal ravine
Account name?
oak goblet
no, but inferno soon
tired wave
its funny tbh
literally everyone who has said no to it has the main argument "93 slayer is hard to get"
😂
oak goblet
it took Jagex 6 years to nerf black d'hide and blowpipe, and these were WAY larger issues than some silly number distribution
tired wave
oh dont worry it will happen
verbal ravine
The thing is when cat/jad argued this I can accept their view point is from somebody who pks on a pure so this would be a direct nerf to their limited build
oak goblet
go ahead and roast my stats, try to gaslight me about not knowing the game
occult being 10% is not damaging to the game or the playstyle. It's the defacto mage necklace, and will probably be so until it gets feature creeped by a better one
ideally by one that has a running cost instead of a passive upgrade
arcane shield got replaces as BiS mage shield by an 8% shield
verbal ravine
go ahead and roast my stats, try to gaslight me about not knowing the game
I didn't ask to roast you, just wanted to know what stage of the game progression/pvm wise.
Like nobody here is out to get you bro
oak goblet
it certainly felt like that was the angle you were taking
if occult gets replaced, it's going to be with an item that's better or offers some utility. We saw this with the blood fury, and honestly it was a good decision to make it be a side grade to the zenyte
verbal ravine
And that only matters if using scythe
I've been using blood fury for a straight year now. Had to ease myself off like an addict in rehab
verbal ravine
it certainly felt like that was the angle you were taking
Nah I ask because there is usually a strong link between the amount of end game content someone has done and their view/opinion on things
Improving and optimising your loadout leads to you having more open conversations on the impact of different pieces of gear and stats and improves your understanding
You're at the early stage of end game/difficult content so it's probably why you have such a vast different way of looking how spreading magic effects things
oak goblet
I've used every spell and every mage item except for shadow. I've fought every boss except hydra, done every raid. There are larger issues than occult being the bulk of mage damage. If anything, the issue is that we don't have many good options for mage gear, and not just the numbers. We have mage tank armor, prayer mage robes, dollar tree blood augment robes, salad robes, ugly salad tree robes, and BiS
but that's the thing, it isn't broken except for powered staves. Standard spells are still inefficient, both in cost and dps. It's just not worth using when trident does more damage for cheaper
trident gives more damage over the previous best spells, is also dropped by a slayer monster, is cheaper, and is a way lower slayer requirement
trident is the same issue
the only difference is that trident has a direct upgrade, a wilderness variant, and a Raids version which is also coincidentally part of the trifecta
occult is just occult, there's no alternative
pallid glacier
let's just cherry pick things, let's focus on the fact that ancestral robes give...
I said this already and they don't care bro, these dudes will beat their drum and call you dumb for anything we say
oak goblet
occult is fine how it is, game has deeper rooted issues like the issue of there being little variety in jewelry
pallid glacier
Yup
oak goblet
diamond amulet = low level general neck
sapphire ammy = low mage
ruby ammy = low melee
emerald ammy = low def?
dragonstone amulet = med general neck
onyx amulet = high general neck
zenytes:
amulet = melee neck = range ring = tank bracelet = mage
boss drops:
dag rings wildy rings
1 boss necklace (uncraftable) occult
we have 1 raids jewelry, and that's cheap AF because it's so common
tl:dr more jewelry options pls
verbal ravine
I said this already and they don't care bro, these dudes will beat their drum an...
Can't lie once you Start referencing defensive stats of ancestral vs occult you're just chatting
I accept your pov comes from the impact this has on pures which I hadn't considered
But the rest is actually chatting
verbal ravine
we have 1 raids jewelry, and that's cheap AF because it's so common
We do?
oak goblet
Lightbearer
verbal ravine
Ahh right ofcourse
oak goblet
And ancestrals are literally just better ahrims with mage bonus, yes defense actually plays a role
Because that means they can add an alternative that is just robes but slightly higher strength, but the defense of, well, robes
verbal ravine
Please understand mage robe defence is pointless outside of maybe specific pvp situations
Same with how accuracy is near meaningless too most times
It's like seeing a noob in full armadyl and pegasian boots saying they get more defence and accuracy from it > blessed dhide & boots
Like for this discussion of relevant impact on magic for where it sits. The defence and accuracy bonuses are irrelevant at almost every point since they're minor
@astral nest said it above. Olm mage hand and tob freezes are the only places that it impacts pvm. Pvp I'm not 100% sure then jump from mystics to ahrims gives on dps/tb
verbal ravine
occult is fine how it is, game has deeper rooted issues like the issue of there ...
Also just on this it's not really true since we have a lot of relevant jewellery in the game , the issues on dps rings are literally gone by Wednesday.
That aside this will kind of always be the case for magic until we rebalance occult , redistribute it's stats across other bis items and then buff the downgrades with the space created
I.e once ancestral is 5% , ahrims , Mystics , Dagenhai, bloodbark all have room to get a meaningful damage % applied.
If we gave eternals 3% , there is room for base magic boots to get something...etc
At the max end you can't just drop switches like eternals since occult is OP and gives you all the bonuses
Yeah I used them as examples of gear that has no space to grow due to ancestral being 2% , the specific buffs are a separate conversation entirely
But I feel like everyone complaining about occult is ignoring what happens after we balance it
They just hear nerf and see red
oak goblet
I.e once ancestral is 5% , ahrims , Mystics , Dagenhai, bloodbark all have room ...
my man, you went from a bad take to a worse one
this message endorsed by the "give everything magic strength" gang
royal sorrel
Not sure how you see that as a bad thing? By rebalancing occult and spreading the mdmg%, you give meaningful upgrades to lower level players.
Instead of having occult, torm, and a trident and have to save up a lot of gp for ancestral, you can get upgrades from other items.
oak goblet
ancestral is the last upgrade, and should be because it's quite literally best in slot for mage
doesn't make sense to put most of the eggs in that basket, you're just going to create the inverse problem of what is supposedly already such an issue
tired wave
with that same logic occult should be one of the "last" upgrades because it quite literally is the best in slot amulet for mage 😂
oak goblet
because then ancestral is going to be 50% of the max mage damage
no, being the only option is far different than being the best option
you do realize that it's literally just 10%
it's not some insane number of +155% damage
tired wave
you do realise it is 43% of the total mage %
for 500k
its so bad u thought i was talking about mystics lol
thats how cheap that item is
oak goblet
ok, let's go over this one more time
tired wave
inc defence and accuracy comments
oak goblet
you're comparing it against all the jewelry and armor bonuses
tired wave
even ur jewlery point doesnt make sense
torm is 5% yet 11m, new ring is 2% prob gonna be worth quite a bit, occult is 10% 500k
oak goblet
you forget that mage damage is calculated
1: by spell tier
2: powered staves
3: higher staves that give 15% mage bonus. There's literally 5 staves (6?) that give 15%, more than occult's 10%
tired wave
oh wow a weapon is gonna be more dps than an amulet/gear who wouldve thought
not like a tentacle can hit 25 with nothing else
oak goblet
mage strength does not have to be on every item
tired wave
disagree.
it not being on every item e.g. eternals/seers makes them useless
hence why we are seeing a ring upgrade
oak goblet
we're seeing many ring upgrades, because that's how the natural progression goes
avas gets ranged strength because it adds a boss drop
tired wave
i mean sure but it being useless is a fact
royal sorrel
With ancestral only being 2%, there is almost no room for lower tier gear to have any % bonus. Hence why virtus is only 1%/item
tired wave
even in siutation where u use mage only
oak goblet
ward gets mage strength because it includes a boss drop
tired wave
u now use lightbearer
eternals +8 accuracy only from 91 slayer boss with actual mechanics
oak goblet
that's because accuracy != strength
tired wave
accuracy = useless on this game
oak goblet
often for mage you'd rather go with brimstone over seers
oak goblet
and no, you try maging with < 50 mage accuracy
tired wave
lol go gwd
oak goblet
you're going to splash quite alot
tired wave
take staff/wand with occult
tell me how much u miss
whilst sitting in melee/range gear
oak goblet
against enemies with low mage defense? of course
tired wave
only matters in very minimal amount of places
oak goblet
but you said accuracy didn't matter
tired wave
yes in most scenarios it doesnt
royal sorrel
Accuracy does matter, but not nearly as much as max hits. Which was explained before.
tired wave
like its nowhere near as important as maxh its
oak goblet
ok, and in most scenarios you'll be using a style which is most efficient
tired wave
u always want max hit switches over accuracy switches
oak goblet
ok?
oak goblet
this is not some revelation, you're saying things that are well known
tired wave
yes and im saying to make them useful
by spreading occult dmg to it
instead of having 1 item
oak goblet
no
tired wave
that has all the dmg
oak goblet
we're getting the magus ring
tired wave
oh wow 2% dmg
oak goblet
we don't need to buff ancestral even more
ahrim's gets 30% mage strength when wearing the amulet of the damned
tired wave
yh bye u are like the other guy
oak goblet
why don't people use that
tired wave
im talking about eternals and other useless stuff
and u want to talk about 1 set of gear that isnt even in the convo rn
oak goblet
ok? Pegasians don't offer max hit
royal sorrel
Which, pre shadow was never mage unless content was specifically designed for it. Nm pillar, olm mage hand, tob maiden crabs for end game content.
Now compare it to early game questing. Instead of melee/range, ppl use fire strike due to more dmg that it provides
oak goblet
the entirety of mage is plagued by a myriad of issues, a 93 slayer requirement is not that big a deal for an item
I feel like this thread is so caught up with "but it's only 800k!, too op!!!""
Occult necklace is the mage necklace. They aren't going to shunt so much of that power into the endgame items, making the gap wider
you might want the numbers to be what you feel is appropriate, the game isn't going to change to your whim
oak goblet
end game = BiS
tired wave
the rest are obtainable perfectly fine at mid game
occult is end game with that logic then?
oak goblet
at 93 slayer, technically yes
Smoke battlestaff also sees 10% mage strength, but only with standard spells
royal sorrel
Theyre saying the item is the price it is due to how easy it is to get. After 93 slayer, you purposely hunt for that task due to being best slayer xp.
As for buffing ancestral, overall bis mage is staying equal or slightly better but requiring more switches than before.
royal sorrel
While also allowing lower level players a chance to get some mdmg% before ancestral
tired wave
again, for a main (which should be the main focus), mid game players are losing only 2% dmg
which new items like ward can bring back easily
oak goblet
Nightmare staff gives 15% mage strength, staff of the dead gives 15% mage strenth AND 12% chance to save runes. Kodai same thing, 15% mage strength, rune saving
Cheap, boss drops, don't even need slayer level
why all the fuss about the only mage necklace
tired wave
yh bye ur just trolling at this point
oak goblet
Brother
verbal ravine
Not sure how you see that as a bad thing? By rebalancing occult and spreading th...
It's understandable since they don't understand a rebalance in the first place 😂
verbal ravine
ok? Pegasians don't offer max hit
Yhup and the first thing people do when they see you wearing it without absolute max , is to sell it
But honestly best advice is go and do your inferno run, take on tob , do more cox and do more toa
And as you get more into that and start caring about dps in a bit more detail, you'll start to understand how ridiculous it all is
Until you get to that point you're going to misundertand the wider scope of it
dull onyx
why all the fuss about the *only* mage necklace
i mean, things from the amulet slot typically contribute quite significantly offensively compared to armour, much like gloves. barrows gloves are basically free and give the same strength bonus as faceguard + bandos cp/tassets which is like 70m. for its price even a glory is quite strong offensively compared to other slots
oak goblet
cue the gaslighting lmao
and yes, jewelry is usually the 2nd offensive item, you are correct
their suggestion is to do the opposite, change occult from 10% to 2%, same as cape and shunt that power to the armor
verbal ravine
@dull onyx
tldr: melee has different formula , the individual items make up a smaller % of max boost so its balanced overall
if barrows gloves were to be recreated and balanced to be the occult of melee gear , it would have +30str.
any gear with +30str would stick out like a sore thumb as broken
also this is legit the only point against that is actually valid , since redistributing it across more gear will defo be a huge loss to 1 def pures specifically because unlike mains/zerkers they have very little gear progression
it means if jagex does this they need to consider the 1 def gear and decide how low they want bonuses to start from to not hit these guys too hard
maybe it means the elder robes ,wizard boots and mage book should have some form of bonus if things get rebalanced
dull onyx
complaining that 1 def pures have little gear options is quite ironic given that they intentionally limit the gear that's available to them
dull onyx
if barrows gloves were to be recreated and balanced to be the occult of melee ge...
well melee gets buffs elsewhere, like strength levels. magic generally doesn't have that, at least not for the standard spells (wave/surge and ancients), so having gear contribute more than with melee is not so weird
a lot also depends on the spell you use, similar to arrows for tbow for example
so it makes a lot more sense to look at how certains slots typically compare to other slots, that's usually fairly stable between styles. from that you see that the occult bonuses are not so weird
verbal ravine
well melee gets buffs elsewhere, like strength levels. magic generally doesn't h...
yeah mage has a different formula altogether i just used melee to show how bonuses shoved in 1 item is ridiculous. and our point is that occult being 10% kind of prevents us having other gear with bonuses without flat powercreep since it has to all be balanced around occult use
verbal ravine
complaining that 1 def pures have little gear options is quite ironic given that...
true , but im happy to look at fair points like that. if specific gear can be included to help balance it out then thats good for the game. end result is elder robes and wizard boots are worth persuing early game & pures rewarded for bringing switches/risk in pvp
the max shadow can ever hit is ;
68 at 99 magic
82 in cox if overloaded
85 in toa if salted (let me know if thats right , i think it hits the cap with x4 anyway)
i think the problematic thing is the x3 mage accuracy tbh , thats when the high hit becomes ridiculous. its almost guaranteed to be accurate against anything as gear progresses
dull onyx
yeah mage has a different formula altogether i just used melee to show how bonus...
i mean it's not really all shoved in 1 item... there's also ma2 cape, ancestral and torm. then there's the combo of ward + nightmare staff/kodai that's a big bonus, or shadow that triples all bonuses. if anything is the problem here, it's shadow, not occult
i think the fact that shadow has such an insane multiplier and yet it's not BIS by far literally everywhere goes to show how weak magic is relative to melee/range in general
verbal ravine
i mean it's not really all shoved in 1 item... there's also ma2 cape, ancestral ...
when i say 1 item im talking about support gear, not the weapons
so 10%/23% (bis mage) = 43% or 10/28% (not shadow and ward) = 35%
verbal ravine
well tbf, kodai is kind of support gear
nah because its like comparing a scythe to fang. the weapon changes everything too much
dull onyx
if you were talking trident or shadow then sure
but kodai is very different from those
it behaves more like support gear than like a weapon
so generally you'd be right, but stuff like kodai and toxic staff are the exception
verbal ravine
but kodai is very different from those
so the only reason i disagree with this is because its a weapon that dictates what kind of spell you can use
i.e you can't apply its 15% bonuses to ibans blast , shadow , sang , god spells..etc
if it could be applied on every type of spell like the other gear then you would be 100% right
same way i wouldnt call the shadow a support item since its passive does not work with normals/ancients
dull onyx
that's a fair point
i mean putting at it 5% might be reasonable but 2% as suggested is just ridiculous
in any case, given the ironman angle as well i don't think it's really too broken as is
verbal ravine
i mean putting at it 5% might be reasonable but 2% as suggested is just ridiculo...
yeah it would be up to devs to put it lower and give other bonuses where they think it works bests. numbers in a suggestion are usually just an example to visualise it
verbal ravine
we just have to wait and see i guess
pallid glacier
You dumb nuts ruining the game
Legit
No brains, but 3000 comments gets you what you want
Congrats
It's not occult
It's the shadow
You guys think Jagex would put in the effort to fix shadow, and balance other magic gear? Of course they won't, they will just nerf the occult and then magic before shadow will be dog water again.
olive kraken
Ruining the game for you, maybe
Which, given your conduct pretty much everywhere there's something you don't like, I'd say is a good thing
pallid glacier
Lmfao cute comment
verbal ravine
No brains, but 3000 comments gets you what you want
its literally a post from a month ago lol ,what
also i promise jagex wouldn’t mention it just because we dont like it.
pallid glacier
they listen to anything that gets a lot of traction lol
this should never have gotten the traction, because it's not occult it's shadow
thanks for runining magic boys, enjoy your crappy runescape
olive kraken
Jagex brought it up before we did, boss. Real infinity billion IQ take.
tired wave
Go get your occult first before you start throwing a fit
dull onyx
this should never have gotten the traction, because it's not occult it's shadow
it's mostly shadow but i can see the argument that occult is a bit too powerful relative to the rest of the magic equipment