#(Ruinous Prayers) Let us beta test something like this

191 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

clever pine
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I'm all for testing theories made by the community, which is why I think it'd be interesting to test something like this (credit to Frozen_Wind). If it ends up being too powerful, then let's talk balancing, but right now a lot of the prayers are either extremely op or very underwhelming.
Edit: original post https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/12nqw0t/ancient_curses_x_ruinous_powers/
https://imgur.com/0epvdF4

reddit
r/2007scape - Ancient Curses x Ruinous Powers

135 votes and 57 comments so far on Reddit

Imgur
prime vale
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Duuno why but looking at that picture made me thik of something

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Jagex is focused on a single batch of prot prayers and a single batch of Acc/Str/Def of prayers

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What if instead of a prot prayers with a downside for their "risk"

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They make 2 batches: One standard 100% protection, maybe deflection alongside it and one along the lines of aaty's 10% damage vulnerability on the offprayer BUT with a stronger protection (130-150%) on the correct style

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so you have the base and the "high risk high reward" version

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Same for offensive prayers

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A set of 25/25/25 prayers and one set of 35/30/0 (acc/str/def) stat boosts

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so again, you have a baseline and one "high risk high reward"

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It feels that only having the glasscannon version takes away from the prayerbook, so why not have both? It would add a lot more depth than "deal more damage and take more damage"

clever pine
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I wouldn't be opposed to anything especially after playing the beta extensively. That's what the beta is for after all, if it fits it fits, if it doesn't, then we can move on from the topic.

I'd hate for some type of curses to be added later on years later because we had tunnel vision now and refused to even test ideas.

prime vale
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Only saving grace left to use my copium stack on is that 39hp masori was very badly received too

kindred trail
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Would be nice if my ideas were able to be tested. It's hard to gauge how something is too strong/weak or fun/unfun without actually getting our hands dirty.

Also thanks for sharing my post 👍

kindred trail
clever pine
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Heres a very rough edit of the prayer book to make it mesh together (only started working on deflect from melee, also haven't refined any edges yet until the end) https://imgur.com/GQt6xjd

Imgur
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oops that was the wrong one, without the leech prayers, im working on making those mesh more as well

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w/e you get the idea lol

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Soul split needs a lot of touching up, right now im just testing the color scheme

kindred trail
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not opposed to changing the appearances of the icons, but i feel like at the very least, soul split and the deflects should stay as they are. makes them easier to find because of the contrast imo, kinda like what we see with wrath

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but again, not opposed and it looks alright so far

clever pine
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I kinda just do these things for fun, I totally agree

kindred trail
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an important thing to address regarding decimate in the initial post is that i have mistaken it to have 23% attack, it apparently only gives 20%

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i guess to bring the proposed turmoil + anguish in line, could reduce the initial accuracy to 10% so that way the full boost only gives 20%, that way it matches decimate/annihilate

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torment seems fine though from what i can tell

prime vale
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is it really an issue to give 30% accuracy on a t90 prayer?

kindred trail
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imo no, but other people would scream powercreep otherwise

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gambit is on this proposed prayer book too, so if the max boost of turmoil + variants were 30%, it'd be a tad ridiculous (if that's what you were getting at)

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i lowkey kinda hate the fact that we're trying to keep the standard prayers relevant. it stunts the development of the prayer book by gatekeeping what could be an actual stage of progression for an account. idk how much of a bad take that is, but that's just my opinion

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new prayer book in the beta probably wouldn't have felt so bad to use if that wasn't the case

clever pine
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Wish we could test different %'s of healing, damage, etc. like: 5% chance of healing 100% of damage dealt (5% leech) for soul split or something

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My original suggestion was just that and it seemed like a balanced way of introducing SS but we'll never know

prime vale
kindred trail
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I'd love to have these prayers be as great as they need to be but I'm trying to be inclusive of everybody

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shit ain't gonna pass or be considered otherwise

prime vale
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Assuming they stick to no defence on the stat prayers, why are we LOSING ALL defence, gaining some strength and no changes to accuracy? I'd be ok with a full and expressive offense increase in that scenario.
For the scenario they take the L on the glasscannon design because nobody liked the max hits bosses gained and go along the lines of turmoil, then I'd agree to a slight bump in accuracy since we're keeping the 25% defense, if not gaining more

rustic cape
prime vale
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Its weird that wanting higher tier content to be better than lower tier content that wants to do the exact same thing is a hot take

kindred trail
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the whole premise is unfortunately more power at a cost + tradeoffs instead of more power to expand and fill out the higher levels for the sake of account progression

kindred trail
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we probably wouldn't be so afraid of even testing stuff either if this whole premise didn't exist to begin with

rustic cape
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And have more difficulty to unlock than raid prayers

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Right now it's gonna be a 2 hour quest (once plugin updates) and bosses are unlikely to be too difficult

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So more power is fine , but personally I don't see the risk side. It's just shorter trips from passive damage

kindred trail
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I wish the content was presented in that sort of fashion, but I guess it is what it is

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would like to have a mini raid involving the 4 dt2 bosses, it sounds nice lmao

prime vale
kindred trail
prime vale
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It's beating a dead horse at thsi point but Jagex needs to think "What problem are we solving by adding a caveat to prayers?"

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Piety drain less than using the previous tier prayers at the same time and gives more stats, at a higher prayer level and quest requirements

clever pine
kindred trail
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even though it equates to 5% healing, I'm unsure about how I feel about soul split proccing on an average of once every 20 hits with a 4 tick weapon. also would seem pretty awkward to use with a 5 tick weapon if soul split is rolling every 4 ticks for the heal chance, unless it was meant that soul split goes on cool down and can only be procced every 4 ticks and onwards

clever pine
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Makes sense, I was going to originally keep it without the tick req. seeing as the realistic max hit from a blow pipe even hitting faster isn't worth it in most cases

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So without the 4 tick roll, how do you feel about that

kindred trail
# clever pine So without the 4 tick roll, how do you feel about that

well, healing 100% of dmg dealt is very strong imo. even 30% on a 20% chance is pretty fat on blood fury when it goes off and procs multiple times in a row.

I opted for the 5% healing 100% of the time in my original proposal because of consistency + taking advantage of how rs rounds down (healing 0 when hitting below 20). heals wouldnt be ridiculous when it procs, and missing flicks would negate the heals you would have gained as mentioned

clever pine
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that's already possible for mage is it not? And at a higher % chance + high % leech

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Sang is 8.33%

kindred trail
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I'd 100% agree that 5% healing 100% of the time is ridiculous if hitting below a 20 healed you a minimum of 1 every time (besides hitting a 0 of course)

clever pine
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I'd argue that it's already very possible to afk melee with blood fury if you're able to pray flick

kindred trail
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assuming perfect play, yeah it would be a walking health pack, sure lmao

clever pine
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There's been plenty of times that I've been able to sustain with no food/pots with blood fury and rapier + protection prayers

kindred trail
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didn't mean that in a derogatory way, I fully agree

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well, this is where id have liked to test this in the beta just to see how ridiculous (or how bad) the healing at 5% rounded down truly is

clever pine
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Here's an interesting dynamic that I think about with this though, if we get prayers that are more powerful than curses were, that means more difficult encounters to counteract that, which in turn means at some point considering blood fury alternatives for mage and or range

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Maybe not within the next two years, but I guarantee it'll be brought up some point in the future

kindred trail
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ah so typeless dmg included

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not a bad suggestion imo

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I wouldn't mind that additional damage if they took my concept of cruor's vow

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nope, my version of cruor's vow was a portion of dmg u take is taken over time as a bleed

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I left it open ended on the numbers on purpose

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sounds broken on paper, but it depends on how much the bleed is per tick (or however much the delay is) , and how much of the damage is taken over time. obviously too much of anything will make this turn into damage mitigation which isn't good

clever pine
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I wish I was even cautiously optimistic at this point, but I'm not

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I'll wait until they release more info in May though

kindred trail
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simplicity is definitely a big factor where if ruinous powers released as is id legit never use it outside of, idk, easy slayer tasks where I don't have to think or something LOL

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oh absolutely, and in the case of rs, having ur prayer drain act like someone instantly downing a water bottle isn't exactly all that great either

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as someone who plays osu mouse only that hit a little too close to home

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but yeah I agree with that too

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if nex damage was similar to normal nm damage I'd probably enjoy it more

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in any case tho, if we're getting another beta, hopefully jagex addresses most (if not all) the stuff that the community has brought up

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if the second beta comes around with the book still feeling terrible to use I'd just say fuck it with the new book lmao

clever pine
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yup I'll give it one more shot as well before just voting no

kindred trail
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would absolutely love to beta test curses with soul split tuned down accordingly as some have mentioned but that's prob never gonna happen 🤷‍♂️

clever pine
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I mean why not, they were more simplistic and if toned down, I really think people would be surprised

kindred trail
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oh yeah i remember arcane mentioning that

clever pine
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People want Cruor's Vow buffed now too because its literally useless in most cases

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funny

kindred trail
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30 hp in an entire olm fight btw

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cracked me up when someone brought up that statistic

clever pine
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remember the uproar of 10%/10% with blood fury

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that's why I have reservations when it comes to not adding blood fury range/mage amulets later on

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I don't have faith lol

kindred trail
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somewhere in the realm between 1% and 5% healing is where soul split is probably acceptable but even then, 🤷‍♂️

clever pine
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I'd accept that, but I still think in 5 years we'll be polling it anyways lolol

kindred trail
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that's true. blood fury was dogged on for how bad it was initially, and then the poll came out that made it 20% to heal 30%, and everyone loved that for some reason

clever pine
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Social experiment 101 don't name it soul split and it'll pass

kindred trail
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LMFAO

clever pine
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Korasi not on your life

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Voidwaker please

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yes

kindred trail
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bro I made numerous reddit comments about korasi when talking about curses

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like, 5 years ago wanting korasi was a sin

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same shit with claws before they released it with cox

clever pine
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Yup

kindred trail
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and now suddenly it's socially accepted

clever pine
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This is why I'm 100% certain we'll be polling blood fury for range/mage if no healing prayer is added

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Why didn't we get a buffed Tormented Demon with claws

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could have made it a interesting boss, well because rs3

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I got downvoted for suggesting adding a Tormented Demon boss that randomly switches between all 3 combat styles and is a slayer boss at 90+ slayer for d claws

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Then we got Hydra, interesting

kindred trail
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hydra doesn't melee tho, does it?

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but regardless, I get ur point

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either the idea has been done before or the unique idea in question is so complicated that it's just not worth it it seems

clever pine
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its amusing to see

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im with you there

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i logged on to rs3 during fsw and holy shit

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i spent more time on wiki than i did playing the game

rustic cape
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Make it drain like the current run prayer then sure you can have it

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But a free blood fury with 0 cost is just broken

rustic cape
neon cove
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+1 to curses or a combination of ruinous powers + curses. Use the original 2009 aesthetic of the curses and just poll them with a nerfed soulsplit. If it fails, the players clearly don't want new prayers in general

kindred trail
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I'm using a resource pack that switched the standard prayers with the deflects atm out of respect and nostalgia lmao

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shame that there isnt an easy way to change the actual overhead

naive crescent
kindred trail
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wdym

naive crescent
kindred trail
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tldr is I attempted to make a thing that combined both curses and the new prayers together, reddit post is provided in the OP

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the discussion that followed is something I can't really be bothered to regurgitate lmao

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but the conclusion was if jagex doesn't improve on the prayers all that much in the next beta, I at least won't be in favor of new prayers at all

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cuz hoping for curses is wishful thinking

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as much as I am in favor of them

naive crescent
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Weren’t curses busted af?

kindred trail
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the only reason was because of soul split back in rs2

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turmoil wasnt anything close by comparison

naive crescent
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Turmoil

kindred trail
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like what does old turmoil have over Decimate besides defence

naive crescent
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True but I don’t think the concept works in osrs as opposed to rs3/2

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The draining effect

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Or stat siphoning

kindred trail
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I guess it did leech, yeah. but whether or not that's what made it broken is debatable imo

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even if it was, it could be rebalanced for osrs to just not leech and just build up based on what ur attacking

naive crescent
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That

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Look, I’m being irresponsible and I’m driving

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Game was Uber different back then. The direction in how we interact or even theorize about content is extremely different

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Since face tanking was considered peak content

kindred trail
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just as a disclaimer, I'm not against 1t flicking in the slightest, I couldn't care about it any less really lmao

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only reason why I had that in the reddit post was to be inclusive of everyone

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all I know is if it ends up being dog piss bad to use in terms of annoyance I'm just sticking with standard prays and calling it a day

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if people call me out for being inefficient then fuck it, I'm not about to have a headache doing pvm

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lmao

naive crescent
kindred trail
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evidently, unfortunately

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can't say I didn't try though

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¯_(ツ)_/¯

prime vale
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Lets assume they decide to copy what works instead of reinventing the wheel

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Turmoil is a good starting point

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It having more stats than piety when charged up, perfect

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it taking time to charge up, perfect

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draining stats from the target? no

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my only concern is A: the stats jagex picks for the base version

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IMO, like ive stated in my post about curses, it should be baseline piety and ramps up to godhood

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they cannot be weaker than current prayers (piety, rig, overheads) on base because then it just nerfs flicking prayers for no reason

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cause look at what we have now right

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flick prayers, get all the goods, none of the pains

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its something you learn to do because its worth it

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and it should not be nerfed in any shape or form

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and the concept of ramping up is to provide the alternative

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what if you could just camp them? Then you're tradign prayer points for more juice

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and if you need to preserve points, back to flicking

kindred trail
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imo it absolutely should start below piety. I lowkey thought it did in rs2 but that wasn't the case entirely

naive crescent
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Honestly I can’t deal with ramp up because it constantly incentivizes me being less initiative in content with multiple styles. Like for nylos losing my benefits to clear a lane isn’t a choice anymore, it would be trill because I’ll practically be doing it with less damage

prime vale
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so lets say it takes 10 ticks for turmoil to ramp from piety to Brazilian Piety

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switching from turmoil to anguish or torment would preserve the current charge

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but turning it off via lazy flick or 1t would cancel it

naive crescent
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That’s the thing

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Like flicking isn’t a resource for balancing its a mechanic with big trade offs in terms of mobility and shouldn’t be a topic in prayer balance conversation

prime vale
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not that I disagree with you, flicking is a skill people should master

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I just don't like that being the only option

naive crescent
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It’s just the concept of ramping itself rather than how to achieve it.

prime vale
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And the only sidegrade I could brainstorm was the ramp

naive crescent
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The less defense costs are relatively noticeable but its possible for those prayers to be stronger as long as the rest of the book compensates with interesting mechanics. Like how poison, blood, and ice vows should be reworked and offer situational benefits. I think personally the “health on kill” mechanic for cruor would be way more healthy and balanced for the game with slight scaling properties depending on the hp of the monster

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Or simply imbuing an attack with low grade poison/give the user resistances for the poison vow and making glacies vow lower mage def. All these things aid the player but they are all more situational and their powers would shine for different reasons

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An example say: popping cruors before finishing off an olm hand would heal like 15-25 hp but subtract said prayer relative to the heal (olm isn’t a perfect example since prayer could be damn near infinite since enhance) but it enables a choice depending on your resources (especially in a no prep solo) and doesn’t act solely as sustain since it can’t be procced at all times

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Contrasting to using it at nylos where you’d be granted a decent amount of healing per kill but since prayer isn’t much of an issue it would be a good call to throw it on near the end of the rooms or where your team mates aren’t the best at dealing with aggros/potentially let a pillar fall. Now it’s a conversation of whether or not how you expend your resources (prayer would drain on kill instead of during activation and should be somewhat big to proc in terms of prayer drain (5-7 sounds decent))

clever pine
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We might actually get a rendition of soul split next beta

kindred trail
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no one knows from what i can tell

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would be sick to see