#game-update

1 messages · Page 244 of 1

patent magnet
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rather than 2 ships in the quest

bronze kernel
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They scrapped the ship v ship they were designed for

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For the time being

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And left this content in a limbo

ashen yarrow
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people would still complain since they did not make it exact copy of granite

dawn jackal
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again, if you find me someone who actively skills and cares about it i'll give weight to your argument Damica

patent magnet
chrome lantern
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I mean you don’t really even need someone to be 1:1 ehp to accurately gauge a method like this. You just need to do it for a short time and then you can easily compute the theoretical yield. I do think having an efficient skiller could more stuff to reflect aspects like not needing to drop anything and more subjective stuff, though

sharp cave
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From my point of view it seemed like if they didnt include tick manip from the start (as a policy) then there probably would have not been as much drama

But in that case its just covering for the lack of or bad quality QA

chrome lantern
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But this is easily test-able by anyone

minor whale
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Yeah Jagex has absolutely fumbled on QA again and again and again and it's making everyone angry over everything

chrome lantern
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“We added a new resource, how does it behave if I 1.5t or 3t it”

patent magnet
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yeah and apparently it was and not fixed from beta testers, so idk

dawn jackal
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my understanding is they did test it 10 months ago, realized the rates were too high, then "nerfed" it but didn't realize it gave double rolls

obsidian venture
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People just see ticks and cry

dawn jackal
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and now they have to fix it

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well they feel they have to fix it

minor whale
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Like it's absolutely a tiny amount of time to just use a calculator
If resource has more than 1 life and can be tick maniped, you can 1.5 tick it
Legitimately hard to grasp how they didn't look at it when they have 100 JMods on the team these days

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Are 95 of the team art related and then 5 actually touch code

sharp cave
dawn jackal
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sadly solomission and gnomonky are their testing team

covert cradle
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maybe they couldnt tick manip very good so they thought the rates were okay

bronze kernel
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Just "accidentally" remove tick manipulation with a massive game engine update and say fixing it will break the other important back end changes. And call it a night

minor whale
minor whale
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Jagex doesn't dislike these methods

chrome lantern
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95 are art, 3 are code, and 2 have played the game enough to actually understand mechanics

sharp cave
minor whale
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They want these methods in the game and have intentionally catered to keep them in and relevant

dawn jackal
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the cannonballs you literally could math the xp / hr

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and how many clicks it'd be

minor whale
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Yup

covert cradle
dawn jackal
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required less than 0 testing

minor whale
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They just... didn't

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It's a bit concerning

dawn jackal
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4 tick action, 28 actions, 112 ticks

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i've saved jagex hassle

chrome lantern
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Does the smith outfit work on them

dawn jackal
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of course not

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why would the smithing outfit grant you more smithing xp

minor whale
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World's funniest outfit

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I think it works on less things than it doesn't

patent magnet
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shouldnt smith outfit work? speed up smithing interaction

chrome lantern
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It wouldn’t give more xp but it should save a tick for all anvil actions

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So more /hr yes

minor whale
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See, you'd think
But no

patent magnet
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or is that spaghetti moment

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lmao

dawn jackal
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it is still a 4 tick action smith outfit or not

minor whale
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Just like you'd think incendiaries would work on everything

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But instead they work on...birds

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And just birds

patent magnet
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maybe they add dwarf cannon upgrades so these items have a use

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would the chinners complain?

minor whale
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But hey if you need to slow down a monster by 50% for 8 seconds do we have the cannonball for you

dawn jackal
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they can't add anything to dwarf cannons or the ironmen will riot

minor whale
chrome lantern
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As an iron I’m obligated to deny cannon buffs

minor whale
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Please Jagex poll adding a cannon upgrade that lets you use steel incendiaries

sharp cave
ashen yarrow
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rune incendiary cannonballs are slightly over 2x the xp/h compared to rune dart tips. I would say reducing the xp by 60-70% would be fair considering smithing cannonballs is already reduced xp/bar

minor whale
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Despite it being unfinished

high birch
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Not at all a diss at jagex, but I think two things their QA team needs to do better prior to releasing new content are as follows.
a.testing tick manipulation rates
b.assuming anything that can be bought on the G.E. there are players who can have an infinite amount of them (only limited by trade limits)

I also get there are players who will still have higher rates then what they can achieve in the end, but it would have helped them greatly in putting this into the game closer to what they wanted it to be.

patent magnet
dawn jackal
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im holding my breath on jagex doomerism until the end of the year

minor whale
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I'm not we're doomed

ashen yarrow
dawn jackal
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the last 4 or 5 months have definetly been dissapointing but if the new vampyre stuff and raids are awesome then its all a nothingburger

minor whale
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It is very concerning that the number of JMods has never been higher and the content has never been sloppier

dawn jackal
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definitely just being vibecoded

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and then QA budget slashed

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and we get here

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or thats at least the least malicous take

sharp cave
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My copium is they are burnt out from sailing and its only a matter if time till they spool back up

chrome lantern
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What are we thinking

patent magnet
chrome lantern
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Before or after q2 2027 for raids 4

bronze kernel
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When each new Sailing related release has not been without incident

patent magnet
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yeah it's really afk, but not that much more afk than smithing darts

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3 clicks and 20 steps to a bank back and forth is the difference

dawn jackal
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I think q1 2027 is the most likely place for raids 4 but i don't much see a value in speculating

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i just hope its released in a great state and is fun content

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whenver that happens the players will be ready

ashen yarrow
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the issue people have with current Incendiary balls is that it is more afk and double the xp of smithing dart tips which people use as comparison for afk smithing training

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same thing happened with repair kits and they gutted the xp/plank to under 50%

patent magnet
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but it's 10x the cost or more

dawn jackal
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I just thought of an example that assists in discussion that happened like 20 minutes ago but i'm gonna blast forward anyway

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0 skillers cared that a new con method was found that increased con xp by like 20%

chrome lantern
dawn jackal
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Sailing was a really no win situation for them

patent magnet
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was cow boss the last piece of content that had no issues on launch

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now thats epic

dawn jackal
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Im understanding of the constraints they had and actually think they made a pretty reasonable skill outta it

chrome lantern
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Cow boss was the last piece of content

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Period

dawn jackal
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they bit off more than they could chew but if they just released sailing without boat combat and some of the other fluff in the skill people would rag it harder

ashen yarrow
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people hate change and they hate sailing so anything that comes from sailing will be blasted over reddit for anything they can find as excuse

dawn jackal
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its probably a miracle it was released in 2025 and took yomans work from a lotta people to get it out in the state it was in

ashen yarrow
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salvaging too afk, trials too repetitive, port tasks not enough gp/h

chrome lantern
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Unironically I think the best outcome would’ve been to have November release instead be another beta

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Then fix a lot of this stuff before release

dawn jackal
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I would wager my entire bank they needed to release it when they did

chrome lantern
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Sure there was probably pressure but that doesn’t really change my statement

dawn jackal
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yea i agree its just the reality of business

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makes for supoptimal consumer products

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i will say big props to jagex for actually responding to some of these comments on the reddit thread they still manage to crush the industry with communication

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very appreciated to hear these thoughts even if i disagree

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people should really be embarrased how they communicate on reddit but jagex tanks it really well haha

patent magnet
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that’s one thing everyone kinda takes for granted

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Don’t think there’s another studio that has the same amount of comms

dawn jackal
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they are out here responding to flame comments in a constructive way i'm not sure i can even come up with a comparison for another game near osrs's scale

chrome lantern
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I’m not on reddit so I don’t really experience any of their communications

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Since they never put anything out anywhere else

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Well to clarify

dawn jackal
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i do not venture to reddit except for when i want to see their comments on updates

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it is a very bad place

chrome lantern
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They put out significant amounts of information that would be highly relevant to blogs or other information that is solely propagated through reddit comments or tweets

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Is what I really mean

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And that gets annoying

dawn jackal
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a Q/A style mailbag thing on the website would be nice

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but its also nice they venture into the evil reddit threads

chrome lantern
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Even something as simple as a reddit post bot would be a significant addition

idle rapids
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Imagine if we had a forum of some kind to discuss news and information related to OSRS.... nah stupid idea

true talon
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We got a discord

golden grotto
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I think it's funny that new training methods are held hostage by unintended tick-manipulation training methods that if discovered today would have been immediately patched out of the game.

I know, I know... it's super controversial to say that maybe messing around with knives and logs and tar and horns in your inventory to trick the game to give you more xp in fishing and mining, probably should not have existed and shouldn't be considered for future content balancing.

true talon
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Pretty much true, it’s holding back progress to protect ancient ways.

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It’s like saying you shouldn’t drive, because it devalues the time getting somewhere by walking.

warm quiver
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start with rubium, and work your way down everything where it exists

fair anvil
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what exaxctly is the "long-term progression of the skills involved"? mining has been the fucking same for 20 years

dawn jackal
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they just removed a tick manipulated method

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i am confused by this comment

warm quiver
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which comment

dawn jackal
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all

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well mostly the person saying that methods are being held back by tick manipulation

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and then someone agreeing

ashen yarrow
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yes they removed new tick manipulation method because it needed to be worse than old

fair anvil
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god forbid they make mining better

dawn jackal
fair anvil
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all shit exp

dawn jackal
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yep, mining has slower xp rates than some skills. Thats a good thing!

fair anvil
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mining will and always will be shit exp/hr unless you want carpal tunnel

dawn jackal
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And if you really want to relax you can mine the stars!

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I've done a lot of granite without getting carpal tunnel! I think you'll find good posture, small breaks, water, and stretching go quite a long way!

fair anvil
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yeah yeah, keep glazing jagex.

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always got an answer for everything

dawn jackal
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I'm sorry you disagree with the rate of progression in this game! Jagex has stated many times they have a focus on balancing xp rates to ensure new methods are balanced and do not remove viability of all old methods. If you feel very strongly about this there are plenty of other games that are very fun that offer lighting quick character progression.

ashen yarrow
dawn jackal
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What about it?

ashen yarrow
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iron power mining got replaced as the less active method for training at lower lvls

dawn jackal
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It has a sailing requirement, iron still has use cases for training for quite a few accounts.

ashen yarrow
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rubium also has sailing requirement

dawn jackal
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I am not understanding the argument you are making comparing lead ore to rubium ore.

minor whale
golden grotto
# dawn jackal i am confused by this comment

To put it simply, jagex is extremely delicate to unexpected (emergent) gameplay that results in higher than intended xp/rewards p/h.

Look how quickly they rushed to change the crystal extractor for sailing.

That attitude would have had barb fishing, granite mining, teak cutting, hunting, etc. immediately patched.

I can promise you without a shadow of a doubt that granite; a throwaway quest interaction material, was not intended to be a 130k xp/hr training method when it was released. The only reason they have not been changed, is because they have been part of the game for over a decade now.

Every single update is being compared to these methods despite the methods being; A) highly unenjoyable. B) Disproportionately rewarding for the level you gain access to them, and C) unintended outcomes far outside the bounds of balance.

dawn jackal
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First off, I enjoy granite mining! I understand why a large majority of the people wouldn't.

minor whale
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Yes, things released before polls existed came into the game unpolled
That's why now they poll things before adding in meta shifting methods for xp rates, especially ones that are as unbalanced as tick manip rubium was.

dawn jackal
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Second, I find it disingenous to compare interactions that have existed in the game, largely without developer knowledge, since 2005 or even earlier to modern content releases.

ashen yarrow
dawn jackal
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Third, a lot of unintended "meta" training options get into the game! I can share examples for as long as you're willing to listen.

minor whale
dawn jackal
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Most recently we have 2t flatpacks to train construction and coral farming for iron as examples.

ashen yarrow
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there are other metas than tick manipulation scronglypirate

warm epoch
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yeah and rubium now has a good place in the nontick manip meta

warm quiver
dawn jackal
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I'm sorry if i've came off as defending jagex's poor QA lately, that is not my intention! That is also the reason for the quick nerfs to content!

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But I don't see how these topics are related.

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The smithing xp is just a clear lack of effort put into the release as that didn't even require any ingame testing to know the xp rates for.

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I also do think it's time to bring in another mining method that can compete with if not exceed granite's xp / hr.

minor whale
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Yeah, that's fine
As long as they poll it as such

dawn jackal
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I just believe it should be polled and be either completely different content (think of sep vs rooftops) or similar rhythym to granite.

ashen yarrow
minor whale
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Just surprise here's something nobody even calced that's easier more xp and more gp than previous best method is dumb as shit

dawn jackal
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At this point we do not even get rates when they poll things, so they just need to communicate it will be great xp and poll it as such.

golden grotto
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I also do not want to come off as defending rubium explicitly. To be perfectly honest, I haven't had time to engage with the content yet. I am not knowledgeable about the nuances with rubium. I merely wanted to say I don't think it's healthy for the game for jagex to constrain design by current metas that exist outside the framework that they balance the game upon.

dawn jackal
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This is an incorrect statement. Jagex has explicitly stated they do balance the game around tick manipulation skilling rates.

golden grotto
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🤦‍♂️

dawn jackal
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Whether or not you agree with that is another story.

ashen yarrow
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tick manipulating rubium makes 2m gp/h 24hours after release with it being used as a busted smithing training method which is also getting gutted

dawn jackal
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Hmm the comment appears edited.

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Now I look the fool!

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I guess I don't really follow the logic being used here. Jagex is not taking away anything except the ability to tick manipulate the rubium. They are actually making it a stronger option to mine in a more reclined fashion.

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Now if you are just asking for higher mining xp methods that are lower effort than sure.

ashen yarrow
warm quiver
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it might be negligible but let's not ignore it

dawn jackal
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But Jagex has repeatedly mentioned they have value in both having slower vs faster skills to train (very good thing!) and that they design the content around tick manipulated skilling rates. It is not a far leap to say Jagex believes rewarding active player engagement with higher XP is how they want to balance content.

golden grotto
ashen yarrow
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you do get more rubium shards at higher lvl to make sure the gp/h is terrible outside 96 mining, if the cannonballs are relevant in sailing combat

dawn jackal
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And you'll find if you keep an eye on the skilling meta's they have largely designed content since about fossil island to make skilling content not reliant on tick manipulation.

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The teak tree's were an unintended method that has been kept in the game as they are not out of line with what was previously possible.

golden grotto
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?????????

dawn jackal
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What part of that statement do you disagree with?

golden grotto
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2 tick teaks were wildly higher xp than the next leading xp method

dawn jackal
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I am referring to 1.5t teaks on fossil island. 2t teaks were in the game since release.

golden grotto
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oh fossil island, gotcha

dawn jackal
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Yea, the point I was trying to make is that their skilling content they've released in the game largely does not include tick manipulation to get the best rates.

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It would be extremely surprising and unlike Jagex at this point to release a new method for mining that is the best xp rates possible that includes tick manipulation.

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The rubium was unintended as stated by Jagex and adjusted accordingly. I find it discouraging their fix was to remove the ability to 3t the ore instead of balancing the rewards for 3t'ing the ore.

ashen yarrow
warm quiver
dawn jackal
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I would not consider the Gwenith Glide to include any tick manipluation

ashen yarrow
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salvaging has tick manipulation which is best xp/h at certain levels

warm quiver
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luckily it's lower xp than 2t salvaging then, confirmed by their blog and the wiki

dawn jackal
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You do indeed tick manipulate salvage from level 50-55 sailing if you want to get 99 sailing in the most efficient way yes.

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I suppose I stand very mildly corrected.

warm quiver
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also from 87 to 93 sailing doing very basic math

ashen yarrow
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can boost for boat upgrades so smaller window

dawn jackal
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Gwenith Glide with a Camphor hull outpaces salvaging rates.

warm quiver
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im not going to read the wiki for you, nor am i going to continue talking to someone arguing in bad faith !

dawn jackal
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I hope you have a pleasant day!

warm quiver
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you too !

covert cradle
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tick manipulation seems to cause a lot of issues

warm quiver
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earlier up in the chat someone was saying how tick manipulation isn't the problem, which i think is a fine position to have, but it is a problem

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so if it can be removed then im for it across the board

minor whale
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Replace tick manipulation Boogeyman with literally just saying "most active clicking method"

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I don't understand why this one thing gets people so bothered
If there was a method that wasn't tick manip but equally as many precise clicks needed

dawn jackal
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Alas, the issue at hand is that people dislike slow xp rates for some skills not tick manipluation.

minor whale
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Do you think people would just go "yes thank God tick manip is gone"

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Exactly

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People don't like that some skills are slow when not putting in max effort

warm quiver
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im not arguing that we get a wintertodt level of apm and xp/hr for every skill, let some skills have worse rates, but at least make them worse intentionally lol

minor whale
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Getting rid of current max effort to add a new max effort that's identical clicks and precision seems pointless

ashen yarrow
minor whale
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"I don't want to use a motorcycle to go to work I want to put an engine on my bicycle"

dawn jackal
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If volcanic mine was buffed to grant 130k xp / hr and granite rocks were removed from the game would that be a satisfying result?

minor whale
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They just don't though
Even the most active non tick manip methods are way less active than tick manip

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There's no non tick manip method that requires constant precises clicking for best rates

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They shouldn't buff those just because tick manip would be deleted

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You're doing less effort you get less reward

dawn jackal
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I would argue Sep, Dolo blast furnace, any runner RC method, and doing firemaking along with stealing artifacts are more challenging than any tick manipulated skilling.

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But it's kind of just personal preference at that point.

ashen yarrow
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interactive or something that requires thinking can get away with less clicks per tick and still have same effort as practicing getting used to timing fast clicks at same rate and same location in a loop

dawn jackal
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I bring those up as examples as they are currently the meta for their respective skills.

golden grotto
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When tick manip was discovered, the best training methods for mining were ~55k/hr

That was boosted to over 120k/hr when people learned how to effectively cheat the game to allow more rolls than was intended.

Do you think if someone today discovered how to get 200k xp/hr in agility by messing with a potato and a locating orb, that jagex would allow it today if it required the same level of interaction as barb fishing?

dawn jackal
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Again I find it largely disingenuous to compare discoveries made over 10 years ago to new content releases today. That is not really a good faith argument. At this point Jagex has accepted these tick manipulated skilling methods as a part of the game.

golden grotto
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Why

warm quiver
golden grotto
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You are defending orthodoxy for the sake of orthodoxy

ashen yarrow
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sadly there is no changing metas that players have accepted as max xp. Sailing at least has room for improvements since players are not considering gwenith glide as the absolute best training method for the skill

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bounty tasks might be best xp/h after changes which would be nice change

hard axle
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Doubt it tbh

golden grotto
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I'll just restate my original comment.

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I think it's funny that new training methods are held hostage by unintended tick-manipulation training methods that if discovered today would have been immediately patched out of the game.

I know, I know... it's super controversial to say that maybe messing around with knives and logs and tar and horns in your inventory to trick the game to give you more xp in fishing and mining, probably should not have existed and shouldn't be considered for future content balancing.

hard axle
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They would need to multiply bounty task by 2-4x for them to be better than Gg

ashen yarrow
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they are already comparable to gwenith glide but suffer from rng task element that can make it so you have to do bad tasks

dawn jackal
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Today we operate under a different structure with polling than we did in 2006 when granite rocks were introduced.

golden grotto
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130k/hr method wasn't discovered until years after osrs had been out

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2015ish

hard axle
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how's that disingenuous though

dawn jackal
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I think you'll find other unintended game interactions such as red X stalling to be key parts of the current game design.

hard axle
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it was in the game, not discovered Hmm

golden grotto
warm quiver
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it is kind of strange that we have to poll better xp rates but nerfing xp rates can be done via coldfix 🤔

dawn jackal
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In this particular instance Jagex has stated it was unintentional to allow for the Rubium to be mined at 130k xp / hr.

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They made an error and corrected it. I'm not sure that's a nerf.

hard axle
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If it was discovered in 2025, they would retroactively patch it. But since they allowed it and THEY decided it was acceptable, they left it alone.

minor whale
dawn jackal
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Also, I'm not sure who is arguing that there can't be a better mining method introducted to the game. If you find them point them my way I think that'd be an interesting conversation.

minor whale
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Why would they poll nerfing something they didn't poll adding as is

warm quiver
minor whale
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They never gave hard numbers for a lot of sailing stuff and then it came out salvaging was extremely overtuned

cinder plume
minor whale
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It's still so overtuned that most people still just salvage the skill

minor whale
dawn jackal
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Of course, I'm not saying they had excellent quality control.

warm quiver
minor whale
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They admitted as such they oopsied and didn't look over the beta feedback pass

cinder plume
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Feels like we’re not getting our 15 dollars worth here boys

ashen yarrow
dawn jackal
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Jagex is certainly losing a lot of good will by continuously releasing buggy untested content.

blissful topaz
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increase hop limit

ashen yarrow
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mining and woodcutting people also avoid active methods. are those overtuned too

blissful topaz
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*remove hop limits

hard axle
cinder plume
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I was a major jagex stan after varlamore. Since then im getting very turned off the business decisions, lack of engaging content, price increases. Broken promises and disrespect of players time…

minor whale
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That's a bit disingenuous when the methods are still "woodcutting"
There's world of difference between woodcutting slower to chop trees or faster to chop trees, and "tell my crew to do this for me while I go afk for 5 minutes at a time for rates nearly half what they are for the most active possible methods"

ashen yarrow
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player salvaging is similar xp/h and click intensivity as woodcutting ironwoods. 2 crewmates salvaging is slightly higher xp rate than star mining with similar click intensivity

hard axle
dawn jackal
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Redwoods are definitely on the edge of being too strong from a strictly game balance perspective. They remain to this day a top 3 AFK method compared to EHP rates. However I don't think they are an issue in actuality.

ashen yarrow
hard axle
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Like I explained before, the longer the afk, the less the xp has to be or it's even more problematic.

7 minute afk versus 6 hour afk is a classic example. 7 minute afk could be 100k/hr, but 6 hour afk couldn't even be more than 1k/hr before Jagex took action.

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Recent example was like 3 weeks ago when they patched the 6 hour DST camp.

dawn jackal
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The existence of redwoods actually helps the WC identity imo. It is a great skill to train when you have other things to do or don't wish to focus your attention on OSRS.

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However if every single skill had a .35 ehp method that was 5 min afk then every single skill would bleed into eachother.

hard axle
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I said it earlier, but 5%-10% ehb afk method is often where it should end up as, especially if 20 minute afk Hmm

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this works out much better for folks looking for actual afk and keeps it balanced

dawn jackal
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Unfortunately due to a whole lot of factors, which I'd enjoy a conversation on but here is not really the place, people view skilling as a chore to unlock fun exciting PvM. So the player base expects every skill to have a very viable and similar (look at the screen once every 5 minutes) method .

hard axle
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stupid wyrm course not being afk is BTantrum

patent magnet
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ehp is a fake player made mechanic that shouldn’t influence xp gains

dawn jackal
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EHP is not a mechanic.

hard axle
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ah, so math is a fake player made mechanic that shouldn't influence xp gains 💀

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i see

dawn jackal
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This would be like saying batting average is a mechanic in baseball.

patent magnet
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ah yes argue the semantics not the point im trying to make

dawn jackal
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I don't believe you were making a point.

patent magnet
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How do you have 10 hours to play osrs but all day to be an elitist lmao

dawn jackal
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It is a very slow day at work :)

patent magnet
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Let’s actively make the game worse by complaining about my fake skilling competitions on a 3rd party site

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I’m sure the casuals will appreciate the input

dawn jackal
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How do you feel a metric capturing the most efficient training rates possible makes the game worse ?

patent magnet
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Because it’s all you’re going to compare any new update to

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And if it disrupts the meta it’s wrong and should be changed

dawn jackal
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I have stated many times today that I don't care and am in favor of a new mining method being put into the game.

patent magnet
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The game will never move forward cause you cling to what you know and don’t want to adapt to change

minor whale
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What

dawn jackal
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What I am saying is that not every skill should have a strong 5 minute AFK option to train the skill.

minor whale
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How is ehp fake

#

It's saying if you're perfect this is the rates you could get doing the best method

#

It's just math

#

How is it elitist

#

To use a calculator

dawn jackal
#

It's not even saying perfect fwiw

#

It's a reasonable rate to maintain to get 200m all in every skill when considering outside factors such as the cost to train the skill.

patent magnet
#

people do not play the game to get 200m in every skill

#

you do and a handful of others do

minor whale
#

I just don't understand his point at all
Saying ehp shouldn't affect XP methods is like saying miles per gallon in your car shouldn't affect your budget

#

You base it on the highest possible and extrapolate down from there

dawn jackal
#

I believe I just said EHP and thats a sweaty gamer boogeyman word, and this person dislikes players who try and play the game efficiently.

patent magnet
#

there shouldnt be any new weapons because it ruins the EHP of combat skills

dawn jackal
#

Without an understanding of EHP.

#

If I were to be pendantic i'd say that all melee's are 0 time in EHP

patent magnet
#

yep there it is

modern flame
#

" In this state, there would be very little reason to engage in any other active Mining training method for main accounts."
This is the dumbest line of thinking...oh..you mean exactly like 3t4g?
Hmm perhaps the best xp mining method in the game shouldnt???? be unlocked at 45 mining? (<1% of the way to 99)
Jmods are cowards with respect to skilling and getting with the times. Same applies to WC and 1.5t teaks. Get over it, leave the whining sweats in the dust and make skilling enjoyable and decent xp

minor whale
#

Lmao

dawn jackal
#

If someone can bring me one example of a "skiller" who cares about the integrity of XP rates i'd actually value the repeated comments about "sweaty gamers"

patent magnet
#

it's literally the whining of "wahh it devalues my (insert stupid gameplay loop here)"

dawn jackal
#

People are just arguing against a person who doesn't exist.

minor whale
#

What's your suggestion for XP rates then, Goog?

patent magnet
#

that is the most annoying arguement in any aspect of the game

dawn jackal
#

Because they are upset about the XP rates currently available in the game.

ashen yarrow
#

rubium overall is too op, but i fear the changes are too much and it becomes useless method for mains

minor whale
dawn jackal
#

Yes indeed rubium is dead content.

quartz anchor
#

I think Rubium should give consistent dragon arrows 👀

patent magnet
dawn jackal
#

Until they maybe release a reason to fire the incendiary cannon balls.

minor whale
modern flame
# minor whale What's your suggestion for XP rates then, Goog?

less about specific xp rates for given activities, but being beholden to "welp nothing can ever be better than 3t4g or 1.5t teaks etc for the rest of time" is a garbage way to self limit game design. there's no reason that someone should be incentivized to do only one activity because it's the best/most efficient for >99% of the xp needed to reach 99 in a skill

ashen yarrow
hard axle
#

You complain that Jagex listens to a certain type of players, but those players are the ones that actually do some math and provide objective numbers that Jagex can use to balance SChg

The most useless information is "hey this isn't that bad, leave it" when there are people who can prove X weapon is too strong or too weak with numbers.

dawn jackal
#

Mater Goog, can you please provide a single example of Jagex stating "nothing can be better than 3t4g or 1.5t teaks"

minor whale
#

There's plenty of other methods that are solid that are profit and less effort

dawn jackal
#

It just so happens those are the best xp rates currently available in those skills. Imagine making the same argument for agility with the Hallowed Sepulchre.

#

It does not really hold up.

modern flame
#

There should be better rates than hallowed sep!

#

again, 92-99 there is ONE activity

minor whale
#

Here we go

modern flame
#

that's half of the xp

dawn jackal
#

So your point is you want all skills to be faster?

#

Or is it that you want a skills intended training path to include 10+ different activities?

patent magnet
#

whats the point of releasing new updates if they arent good exp, easily afk, or good money

#

0 incentive to do anything other than what exists

#

why even develop new content at all

modern flame
#

certain skills deserve revisiting with respect to the amount of time being incentivized to use a certain method, and on the road to 99 there should be some natural progression of "unlocking" new activities and/or xp rates that are commensurate with the level

minor whale
patent magnet
#

name one update that is all 3

minor whale
#

Nobody said content can't be balanced around being some of those things

dawn jackal
patent magnet
#

is it rubium?

hard axle
minor whale
#

Rubium was bis XP and easier than granite and profit

hard axle
#

People love it

#

like bruh

dawn jackal
#

However something does have to be the best method for training the skill.

minor whale
#

There's plenty of updates that are 2/3 of those things and that's the perfect balance

ashen yarrow
#

im just wondering how people 3tick rubium for hours. a little testing wihtout 3 ticking and im depleting 6-10 rocks ancestralhmm

patent magnet
minor whale
#

Granite is literally 1 out of 3 and it's balanced as shit because it's high effort and negative gp and best xp

patent magnet
#

more input = more rewards

hard axle
#

the same people who threw a fit when Jagex said GOTR wouldn't be significantly better XP

minor whale
#

No?
I literally said all 3 is horrible balancing

patent magnet
#

what are you even arguing for or against

minor whale
#

Repeatedly

dawn jackal
#

I for one did not care in the slightest that Rubium XP was on rate with granite.

patent magnet
#

it's not afk

#

hello?

minor whale
#

You can search from me saying 'triangle'

patent magnet
#

thats not all 3 brother what are you talking about lmfao

dawn jackal
#

I think Jagex's comments were that it should not also be profitable and easier than mining granite.

minor whale
#

It's less effort

#

That's one of the 3

patent magnet
#

less effort is not afk

modern flame
minor whale
#

Effort - profit - XP is the triangle

#

Compare any 2 methods

dawn jackal
#

Yea I don't really think the fact that granite unlocks at 45 and remains the best mining xp until 200m is fantastic game design.

minor whale
#

One thing shouldn't be better than all 3 of another thing or 2 better and 1 equal

patent magnet
#

thanks for the basic crash course in osrs skilling

minor whale
#

Compared to granite, Rubium was identical XP and less effort and more profit

dawn jackal
#

But just because something unlocks early shouldn't limit it from being competitive as a training method.

minor whale
#

It was better than granite in every way but identical xp

patent magnet
#

im sorry your 2002 content is outclassed slightly by something made 20 years later

minor whale
#

So yeah that's not balanced

#

Glad we could discuss this

warm quiver
minor whale
#

Glad Jagex agrees with me

patent magnet
#

yeah it's quite unfortunate they do

dawn jackal
#

Also, I'm not really sure why anyone is mad about Rubium in the first place. To acheive these rates you still had to use tick manipluation?

modern flame
golden grotto
patent magnet
#

with less profit

minor whale
#

Yes that's what balance is
If one thing is the best in a method it probably shouldn't even be close to best in others

ashen yarrow
#

i would argue rubium is close to granite from the fact that respawn times are longer so you have to move through half the mine to keep up close to 100% uptime

patent magnet
#

but why are we balancing with granite

#

because thats how you leveling mining?

golden grotto
#

Contrived orthodoxy

minor whale
#

Because granite is currently the highest XP method in game
What would you like to compare it to instead

dawn jackal
minor whale
#

Would you like to compare it to power mining iron or some shit?

patent magnet
#

methods the majority of players actually train with

dawn jackal
#

Why are people upset that rubium mining is being nerfed and then saying that its because of "tick manipluation keeping the game in 2002" or whatever has been typed to similar effect

minor whale
#

Ok so name your method?
We'll compare

dawn jackal
#

I don't think that's really a coherent point.

thick beacon
#

idk if this is a hot take but i feel like high effort methods should have good loot as well

warm quiver
obsidian venture
#

More effort more reward type shit

#

Don’t know why random noobs are pressed today when their method got buffed

dawn jackal
#

Typically its because if a method is high effort and high reward bots do it.

thick beacon
#

it really doesint work that way though. and its to a point where ppl see high effort as having less loot being balanced

dawn jackal
#

and not humans.

thick beacon
#

atleast in skilling

minor whale
ashen yarrow
dawn jackal
#

There's a whole host of issues with profitable skilling that I don't have a good solution for.

#

Nor does jagex, really.

#

So at this point we are stuck with profit vs xp for active training methods as the balancing norms.

hard axle
patent magnet
minor whale
#

Yeah I mean I'm not arguing that profitable skilling is in a good spot
I'm arguing that people bitching about granite are wild to think that it's reasonable to have a method that they weren't ever going to do anyway be better profit and less effort and same xp and think that's somehow "balanced"

dawn jackal
#

I just don't think the argument holds any water if you remove granite and replace it with a different skilling method such as drift net.

patent magnet
#

i dont care about granite is the thing

#

for the people that do, what if it was buffed to be even better than current rubium rates

#

is that the acceptable compromise

tacit wharf
#

a lot harder to balance profit vs xp/hr when the profit/hr isnt always going to stay the same

minor whale
#

Ok so are we now comparing non tick manip Rubium to non tick manip other methods?

obsidian venture
dawn jackal
#

I don't think buffing rates for the sake of buffing them is neccessarily a good idea.

minor whale
#

Because if so literally nobody gives a shit lmao
Your slightly more afk mining method is now slightly worse XP compared to a method they didn't even balance Rubium around because Rubium tick manip doesn't exist anymore

patent magnet
#

profit for rubium is going to go to 0 when there is no more smithing xp behind it anyway

#

cause the product is useless

golden grotto
hard axle
minor whale
#

Yeah, they didn't give us hard rates on cannonballs

hard axle
#

I wish they did honestly

#

cuz wtf is token

dawn jackal
#

Not entirely related to these high minded skilling contents but why did they have to (presumably) delete the XP from cannonball smithing?

minor whale
#

I'm fine if cannonball making + Rubium equals the average XP per bar of the base metal

#

It depends highly on what "token" means

patent magnet
#

it's 300 xp per bar atm

#

which is high

dawn jackal
#

They coulda just made it something like 150k an hour and its still the best afk smithing at a cost but not totally out of line with active smithing methods.

minor whale
#

Yeah it's currently double dipping

#

It should just average out to 1:1

#

Or maybe even tokenly higher due to the Rubium part being added

patent magnet
#

if it's 1:1 it would be even higher xp/hr at 1tick

hard axle
#

where they triple nerf

#

at once

minor whale
#

But as it currently is the XP value per bar is pretty wild

hard axle
#

(please do not triple nerf)

minor whale
#

Oh right they're also speeding up the smithing of it

#

They're cooked

#

There's no world where you can balance that effectively

#

It'll have to be .33:1 bar XP per ball

#

To just keep current rates

patent magnet
#

wait 1:1 would be 150k/hr at 50xp per bar so 25 per tick

minor whale
#

They're cooked dude

patent magnet
#

plus w/e the cannonball xp is

minor whale
#

They can't balance that shit unless it just gives no XP which is also not good balance

patent magnet
#

but still, any other smithing double dips with GF

minor whale
#

Just say fuck it and make it required to have Rubium on you when the balls are smelted

#

Not 2 separate actions

patent magnet
#

dropped balls/existing balls are useless then if the upgraded ones have a use case

#

and tying it directly to smelting the balls seems not great tbh

minor whale
#

I just don't see an avenue for them to make these not either wild XP/hr for something you don't even need to bank for, or completely 0 XP which pisses off people

#

Make Rubium not stack or some shit I dunno lmfao

#

Make you make 10 Rubium back into something which goes on the ball

dawn jackal
#

Why couldn't they have just taken a 60% nerf to the xp rates?

patent magnet
#

i dont really get the not banking argument

minor whale
#

Instead of the stackable resource directly

dawn jackal
#

And then not touched anything else

patent magnet
#

anvils are 10 steps from a bank

#

it's a bank standing skill

minor whale
#

Yeah but it's still an interruption that is an easy lever to pull for balance

covert cradle
minor whale
#

Use more balls in one go bank more often XP stays decent without being one click a minute

dawn jackal
#

like i don't really care if people want to spend money to get 150k xp / hr smithing cannonballs that have no use

patent magnet
#

slow down the crafting rate or make it require expensive/time consuming materials

dawn jackal
#

It would keep rubium as a resource people care about

minor whale
patent magnet
#

you guys know that it takes about 8hrs of mining for 1hr of smithing right

minor whale
#

That part is kinda mind boggling

#

Yeah but most people mining it aren't going to be using it

#

Just selling it off

ashen yarrow
patent magnet
#

ok crafting speed is now 5t

#

problem solved

#

like it's just dumb thinking that you absolutely need to bank

#

ever made darts?

minor whale
#

Yeah smithing the darts you gotta bank lmao

patent magnet
#

fletched the darts.......

#

you know what i meant

minor whale
#

And then the fletching you don't, but fletching is already like one of the highest possible XP/hr methods in game

ashen yarrow
#

smithing darts is the best comparison for rubium with afk style. rubium is 2x xp per action

patent magnet
#

but you get a useless item

ashen yarrow
#

Incendiary cannonballs are not useless. Well i guess they are useless for people avoiding sailing combat

sacred oracle
patent magnet
#

and need to make the bars into cannonballs first

#

so take that time into account (also doesnt require banking)

#

maybe all these updates are just tailored for UIMs

hard axle
patent magnet
#

ocean creatures that are immune to burn

ashen yarrow
#

Incendiary rune cannonballs are direct dps increase over normal rune cannonballs

dawn jackal
#

unfortunately it will be better not to use incendiary cballs on moby the whale world boss

ashen yarrow
#

im just waiting for them to fix flat armour on boat so i can actually shoot things with cannon again kekw

warm quiver
dawn jackal
#

It would be nice if we could hope Jagex takes some feedback on the proposed changes to Rubium mining and incendiary cannonball smithing into account before changing them

minor whale
dawn jackal
#

I think the proposed changes are pretty much terrible across the board

sacred oracle
#

i think they're fine

#

my only concern is they presented it as a consultation, which suggests they're opening to nerfing less

dawn jackal
#

and it seems if you dig past people wanting better mining xp without tick manipulation (these people seem to conveniently ignore that the new mining method required tick manipulation) people largely agree these changes are not good.

#

I don't see any reason for any account build to do this content with the proposed changes.

sacred oracle
#

i'm tired of the game leaning toward afkers who from a certain point of view aren't actually playing it, at the expense of those of us who play the game because it's hard and grindy so your achievements have meaning

#

but your mileage may vary

dawn jackal
#

The root of the issue is that there's no reason to skill other than to unlock cool fun pvm content

#

so of course people are going to want methods to make the time they engage with skilling as quick and low effort as possible.

#

Thats not good game design at all but I can understand why people just consistently ask for high xp afk methods

#

They don't view skilling as part of the game

old shadow
#

Tramayne we’re employed in non-wfh

ashen yarrow
#

feels like they are trying to remove all the parts that people complained about in tick manipulation posts and the smithing post but it also happens to devalue rubium splinters very hard

patent magnet
#

fwiw im against the changes entirely and im an afk skiller

#

let the people 3t4r

ashen yarrow
#

it turns rubium to motherload mine with lower afk timer but dont need to deposit

patent magnet
#

afk xp seemed high since it's same xp drop as stars but you mine more often

#

but it's also more clicking

#

so it felt kinda fine imo

ashen yarrow
#

its 60-65k xp/h currently on the smaller rocks but 6-15 sec afk

#

the large rock is like 10-15k xp/h and less afk than stars

south void
#

Summarizing, was it red rocks proposed to be lower XP more splinters in the blog

patent magnet
#

yes

south void
#

Can't tell if I'm reading it incorrectly but seems they want more resource output and lower XP correct?

#

Ok cool

ashen yarrow
#

20% less xp/h, extra mine life and 2x more splinters at 72 mining and 3x splinters at 96 mining

patent magnet
#

3x splinters for 20% xp nerf

quartz anchor
#

can someone inform me how the incindiary cannons work. is it just flat burn damage, or does each cannon add more burn with each consecutive shot

ashen yarrow
#

from what i heard it is stacking and based on your cannonballs max hit. havent tested because they removed flat armour on boats in update scronglydespair

dawn jackal
#

I guess their fear with the cannonball smithing and why they feel a need to nuke the xp rates is that if the cballs have a use, it will inevitably end up being profitable afk smithing xp

ashen yarrow
#

the thing im wondering most is the mining xp going to scale with rubium splinters or not after change. since if you are getting 50-60k xp/h at lvl96+ with triple splinter. that would mean you get 20k xp/h below 72

#

Mining the large rock just isnt worth it ever for xp. you are better off clicking small rock once every 5min kekw

south void
remote ruin
#

why did you go to 87? one downs start at 85, no?

minor whale
#

Don't you just need 85?

#

Yeah lol

south void
#

Probably, I zoned out doing stars for a week and then got bored of it.

#

Oh yea it was 85. My bad.

tender harness
#

Ability to unlock Red Rock as a teleport destination on the Sailor's amulet by inspecting the Sailors' Marker just west of the bank

mfers keep making sailing amulet more broken with this shit

#

put this on the cape not the amulet

south void
#

Add clan hall teleport to sailor's amulet.
Doesn't make any sense but why not.

tender harness
#

this isnt even a buff to the cape maan the fact this passed

image.png
#

jagex please give the cape a proper buff not this shit

ashen yarrow
#

just like con cape teleports are not actual buffs since you can use teleport tablets instead kekw

south void
#

I don't have 99 sailing, so cape buffs don't stress me out.

tender harness
#

useless perk being added to useless cape

#

and jagex wonders why people hate the perks

vernal valve
#

idk seems like it'll be pretty nice for the max cape

tender harness
#

its really not

vernal valve
#

why not.

ashen yarrow
#

because he can just use teleport tablets instead

vernal valve
#

surely though jest

hard axle
#

the ability to teleport to any portal

vernal valve
#

errrmmmm redirect scrolls

#

🤓

hard axle
#

in 1 slot

vernal valve
#

alright u win this one

austere mulch
#

Ehh it’ll be mildly nice to have on max cape but the only time I really tele to boat is for master clues, and you already have all teles in your inventory via runes and sbs

#

So at best, it keeps me from needing to click sbs > normal

vernal valve
#

but that's why i say it'll be pretty nice for max cape

#

another to the pile of 50 morbillion teleports

south void
#

Found out the rum from Trouble Brewing is a 2 tile away from bank chest teleport the other day, then realized it cost 5-10k gp each use depending on GE sellers. Thought it was unlimited lol

austere mulch
#

If you are for whatever reason doing post-99 astrals, great for that 🤣

south void
#

Was hoping the drunken rum genie would just let you rub the bottle as many times as you wanted.

vernal valve
#

SURELY they'll add more places we actually want to tp to eventually

tender harness
#

it serves no actual benefit

south void
austere mulch
#

Fairy rings and spirit trees yeah

south void
#

Sailing cape should allow your boat to sail faster. Makes sense to me.

tender harness
#

it is just a genuinely lazy "buff"

#

and they should and can do better

vernal valve
vernal valve
narrow folio
#

The cape should have 5 charges a day where u can tele to any boat that doesnt have a greater focus

tender harness
#

why would I teleport to boat when I can get to the majority of the islands faster with other methods

austere mulch
#

Tele to boat is just something it should’ve done by default because it makes complete sense for it to do so tbh

It’d be interesting if they gave it some passive like having all barrel effects active while on your boat, without the facility

ashen yarrow
#

like comparing it to poh teleport on con cape. teleporting inside poh is useless if you dont have anything inside your house

austere mulch
#

Tele to boat is nice for the witchaven master coordinate step and of course the sailing locked one

#

By nice with the witchaven one, I mean Iike by 5 seconds lmao

tender harness
#

you can get to witchaven faster than boat

austere mulch
#

The dock is right next to the clue dig spot

#

I think the two next best teles are ardy and quest cape?

narrow folio
#

Its useful for getting to skilling locations prior to maxing or going trawling

austere mulch
#

Witchaven port > ardy port > ardy > quest cape

#

Yeah that too if you’re an ironwood lover

ashen yarrow
#

like comparing sailing cape to con cape is fine but it is kinda unfair comparison when you are including things you build inside your poh as the cape perk scronglypirate

#

like is trawling net sailing cape perk like portal nexus is for con cape

tender harness
#

con cape still is better than sailing cape

#

even the fucking desert neck is better than sailing cape

warm epoch
#

desert neck is better than most capes

tender harness
#

desert neck is sleeper OP honestly

#

people shit on it but its good

narrow folio
#

No one shits on da4 wdym

quartz anchor
south void
#

Desert Amulet 4 is more effort to get than 99 sailing though imo

narrow folio
#

True

#

Very cute item

#

Id make it color customizable...maybe w glamourer

#

Little pink heart necklace

tender harness
#

I know its such a difficult concept

ashen yarrow
#

duel ring has even closer teleport but i guess its fine since only 8 charges

tender harness
#

no it absolutely doesnt

south void
#

They needed fun things included in sailing to have people interact with the skill man, it's not that deep

fickle steeple
#

so about this amulet

tender harness
#

the ostrich approach

#

truely genius

hallow crown
ashen yarrow
south void
#

Going to 99 sailing, to use things that help you do more sailing, seems a little out of touch. Most folks don't actually enjoy sailing, to do sailing. Hence the amulet.

tender harness
#

?? what a backwards take

#

why the fuck would anyone hit 99 then just get the amulet
99 is useless
fuck by that extension dont hit 99 in anything

#

the amulet has zero reason, at all being as good as it is. there is no logical point you can make for it

south void
#

By your logic, if they didn't make the amulet, all it's uses should be on the cape.

Which you need 99 for right?

ashen yarrow
#

teleprot to ship does help a lot with sailing, assuming you are doing courier/bounty tasks

south void
#

Having to get 99 to use the cape, if it was fully replacing the amulet, would be useless for the majority of your entire time spent interacting with sailing as a skill to get 99.

The amulet is at a level I feel is comfortable for those who didn't even want to interact with sailing let alone get 99 to acheive a skill cape that would be the same as amulet capabilities.

tender harness
#

it has no reason to cost 20gp per tele for being as good as it is you and literally anyone else have yet to justify for how powerful and common it is why the cost is fine being as low as it is

#

it devalues 99 crafting, 99 sailing for that matter

quartz anchor
ashen yarrow
#

i dont get where this 20gp per teleport comes from. do you geenerate infinite law runes for free scronglypirate

warm quiver
#

crafting cape teleport is free actually, cant devalue that

tender harness
ashen yarrow
#

oh wait it does 10 charges per law rune

tender harness
#

yes

#

its dirt fucking cheap

south void
#

Only value I've gotten from sailing was afking frost dragons and even that was a hard stretch for me to force myself to get to 87 sailing without wanting to jump ship.

#

If your issue with the amulet is cost, increase the cost I could care less about the costs on anything tbh.

tender harness
south void
#

I bought 500 trouble brewing rum for 5k each just to tele to a 2 tile bank chest when I'm doing mobile, cost for convenience is fine

south void
tender harness
warm quiver
#

that's weird, the wiki says it's not a better teleport, i guess you know better though

ashen yarrow
#

move teleport 4 tiles further from bank chest in the 2 teleports and now they are slower to bank than other methods Shrug

south void
#

I still use dueling rings, can't beat them. Most times I get teleported the 6 tiles from the chest instead of the 9 tiles.

sacred oracle
#

A basically free item shouldn't compete with 99 crafting

#

I'd move the teleport a few more tiles from the bank

#

Effort should be rewarded, and easy-to-get untradables shouldn't be that close to craft cape in convenience

#

This community often has a really weird antipathy toward people who play it a lot, but it's not that hard to get 99 crafting. It's a fast skill.

warm quiver
#

easy to get untradeables
crafting isn't hard
whats the argument then

south void
#

The crafting cape can't teleport to the same places the amulet can, it's a different resource provided during a different time.

The sailing amulet was introduced to make sailing more appealing (it's the candy dangled in the van doorway for non-sailing enthusiastic players).

warm quiver
#

crafting cape by your logic is an easy to get untradeable

tender harness
#

it is, it take more time but doesnt make it hard
sailing amulet takes no time and no effort

ashen yarrow
#

next nerf xeric's talisman, too op and only need leech few raids to unlock bank tele

warm quiver
#

you should have spent the 10 years you had crafting cape tele getting more value out of it then

sacred oracle
narrow folio
#

Sailing amulets fine. Lets focus on actually important things like the state of training methods than something everyone enjoys and is actually worse than craft cape anyway.

#

Stop trying to ruin everything good lol

warm quiver
#

i can quote you if you want but its the same words in a slightly different order, one sec

#

easy-to-get untradables shouldn't be that close to craft cape
it's not hard to get 99 crafting

narrow folio
#

So what if theres a few "unbalanced" things? It's not hurting anyone and it makes the skill more enticing which was the whole point

warm quiver
#

is that better for you

south void
#

Comparing two differently achievable items, on the sole purpose of how close it is to bank, is only one factor you are hung up on.

I could care less how close or far the teleports for crafting cape or sailor's amulet are, because like I said I'll pay for dueling rings or trouble brewing rum.

My point is, Jagex knew sailing needed "Omg look how useful this is" gimmicks before 99 sailing to appease the majority.

warm quiver
#

i added in that crafting cape is an untradable item, but im sure you'd agree that it is in fact, untradable

narrow folio
#

It just feels like the sweats with 99 craft feel threatened or something that a worse alternative exists

sacred oracle
narrow folio
#

And I have 99 craft myself

#

Dont care that the amulet exists

warm quiver
#

i removed the italics

#

do i need to add them in as well

sacred oracle
#

The problem is that you appear to be reading what you think I meant, to the exlusion of reading what I actually said.

warm quiver
#

I'm reading the words you typed and repeating them to you

sacred oracle
#

I did not say that craft cape is not hard

warm quiver
#

when do you get the cape

south void
#

99 crafting=buy bonds+band stank
99 sailing=salvaging afk

Same difference to me

sacred oracle
narrow folio
#

In this case it doesnt matter

#

If u make it a couple ticks slower its basically a spite nerf

hard axle
ashen yarrow
#

if anything is broken and easy to obtain it would be quetzal whistle after they buffed it. 1 tick faster banking than sailors amulet

narrow folio
#

Is it actually

sacred oracle
#

I think making near-bis that's dramatically less effort to obtain than bis can be destructive to the game. It's a general trend I dislike. I want to preserve effortful things as rewarding. Some near bis is more destructive, some of it is merely annoying; there's a scale

narrow folio
#

Whistle has a delay

#

So even if closer its not better

sacred oracle
#

I think it would be pretty destructive to release a buyable cape that gave +7 melee strength

#

I think it's annoying that sailing amulet is as good as it is

hard axle
#

This is the same argument folks are using to justify better and better XP rates under “it’s more fun” or “who does it hurt”.

ashen yarrow
#

its 2-4 tiles closer so teleport animation wont make it slower

warm quiver
#

use your crafting cape so people reward you for your achievements or whatever weird take you had earlier today

tender harness
narrow folio
#

Craft capes still better btw

hard axle
#

just slap on a tp delay

narrow folio
#

Arguing just to argue, stuff like this takes time away from actually important things like new content

warm quiver
tender harness
#

the poll system that has been a joke

narrow folio
#

The only nerf i wouldnt be surprised is make it one law per teleport. And thats it.

warm quiver
#

yeah so not sure what your point was

tender harness
#

talking about you

#

with your reddit brain responses

quartz anchor
#

so what we're saying is we should get dragon arrows from rubium rocks?

warm quiver
#

casual players vote in polls, they overwhelmingly vote yes to every poll question

tender harness
south void
#

Option 1: Use your rings of dueling, you worked hard to make them.

Option 2: Use your crafting cape you earned it by buying bonds and bank standing to 99.

Option 3: Use your Sailor's Amulet you earned it by interacting with Sailing, a new skill that Jagex wanted you to like.

narrow folio
#

Thank god the ones who play 10 hours a day arent dictating the direction

sacred oracle
warm quiver
hard axle
sacred oracle
narrow folio
#

Whatever, have a nice day

south void
#

Having multiple options, none of which are the same effort to achieve, should be seen as a good thing, as not everyone wants to spend long amounts of time to do the same thing you did, in a game, that is meant for fun.

I don't find bankstanding to 99 crafting fun, nor the other training methods for it, which is why I've not interacted with the skill to 99.

As a no voter to sailing, despised it to 87 for frosts, the one shiny grace saving addition was the sailor's amulet to make the skill bearable and "fun".

tender harness
warm quiver
sacred oracle
tender harness
dawn jackal
#

what the rod

#

99 crafting is sweaty now?

hard axle
#

people in 2026 think 99 crafting is a grind

quartz anchor
#

it is for irons

#

but you profit on mains

warm quiver
dawn jackal
#

we are about 2 leaps away from logging into the game being sweaty

tender harness
#

already have it

warm quiver
tender harness
#

still you

chrome lantern
warm quiver
#

nah

chrome lantern
#

Crafting cape makes way more sense for what it does than the Sailor amulet

#

But I don’t like skillcapes in general doing as much as they do, tbh

#

As a max cape user

dawn jackal
#

i would love skill and max cape being removed personally

ashen yarrow
#

honestly we should all just use hallowed crystals to bank twice as fast as crafting cape, everyone just hates sepulchre kekw

hard axle
#

It really isn’t that hard when you get crafting supplies out the ass from passive pvm.

Bstaves, orbs, molten glass, dhides, etc.

chrome lantern
#

Yeah dt2 and cg give insane amounts too if we’re talking irons

tender harness
#

I have sand coming out the ass from ardy elites

chrome lantern
#

Also true

tacit wharf
#

the biggest issue with sailor ammy is the fact it gives 10 teles per 1 law, instead of a reason amount per tele

hard axle
#

just pot content SCsmile

ashen yarrow
#

1 law per 2 charges would make it similar cost as duel ring

tacit wharf
#

no

#

other way

#

2 laws per charge

#

at least

south void
#

Only complaints I ever see is not introducing teleports closer than 99 crafting teleport distance. Just make the damn 99 crafting cape tele 1 tile from the bank and make everything else 2 tiles+ and we'd never have to have these discussions.

narrow folio
quartz anchor
#

NGL law runes are so dirt cheap idk why it matters

#

even on my main I have more law runes than I'll ever use

hard axle
#

Because it’s still an item sink scronglypirate

narrow folio
#

1 or 2 law is fine, theyre basically free

ashen yarrow
hard axle
#

It’s cheap because they won’t amp it up past 1-2 laws

tacit wharf
#

the teleports are farther from land, thus should be requiring more laws for the teleport, not that its gp-wise cheap

hard axle
#

and I legit use more law runes xfer and heal other than I do teleporting nowadays

#

and SBS

tender harness
#

45k buckets from el berto
crafting in our lords year of 2026 is legit kekLeo

image.png
cedar latch
#

Anyone else notice how quick game changes will come to things if people are getting good xp/enjoying stuff but how long changes/fixes take for things players don't like or are negative

south void
ashen yarrow
tacit wharf
#

things with easier fixes, come sooner
things with hard fixes, come later

true talon
ashen yarrow
#

Like i wasnt going out of my way just to do sailing combat when flat armor on boats did not work

obsidian venture
#

They also buffed casual miners

#

So it’s a win for the majority if you understand that

minor whale
obsidian venture
#

Yeah people just can’t read all day today

#

Horrible time to have eyes

dawn jackal
#

the most irritating part of this discussion to me is that the 20 hours a day people don't even give a shit

quartz anchor
cedar latch
dawn jackal
#

it's just the craziest boogeyman stuff

minor whale
#

Jagex repeatedly saying they balanced these rates around power mining iron so this method with more profit is slightly less xp

#

They wanted this to be roughly equivalent as a method to iron mining

#

Except you can keep the stacking resources

obsidian venture
tender harness
#

If jagex actually listened to beta feedback this shit wouldn't have made it live 😭

quartz anchor
#

isn't power mining iron only 50k xp/h?

minor whale
#

Unlike iron where banking the iron severely reduces your rates

obsidian venture
#

They changed the rates so something isn’t op. They specifically used cballs as the example

cedar latch
obsidian venture
#

They don’t want high rates of this to be used as it’d be the default cball for all accounts

#

It also affects the economy etc

minor whale
#

1.5t is 3 ticking

#

It's the same method you just change your movement

quartz anchor
#

its 1.5t cuz its 3 tick w/ 2 rolls

dawn jackal
#

iron is like 80k/hr in the mining guild

cedar latch
#

Is iron 80k/hr at all mining levels or specific mining levels, just like the rates they're saying people are getting (Tested at 96 and not at starter rates)

ashen yarrow
#

rubium "afk", just like iron with mining gloves is "afk"

quartz anchor
#

so, are the rubium and cballs just free afk smith xp rn for main?

minor whale
#

The "active mining" rates were not complained about by a single person in the hlc or skiller community

#

Jagex saw the rates were slightly higher than they intended

quartz anchor
#

ask me if I care about HLC

minor whale
#

So they nerfed it down

They also just deleted 3 ticking entirely from it

#

So like
It is not part of the discussion

obsidian venture
#

This is nothing to do with the community and everything to do with Jagex seeing it as an issue balance wise for them

ashen yarrow
cedar latch
#

Just irritating after all the salvaging nerfs they keep finding things to nerf, increase rubium shard output too which goes against their reasoning to keep it 'making good profit'. Skilling has very few good money makers compared to combat especially with how much bonds have increased

dawn jackal
#

the complaining i heard was just like "lol jagex unintentionally made a new meta again"

obsidian venture
#

Tbf I wanted them to nerf salvaging more

#

Don’t need those xp rates for 30 min afk

minor whale
#

This will unironically keep the Rubium higher priced
You remove the XP incentive over something similarly intense

#

And less people do it

obsidian venture
minor whale
#

Each Rubium will be worth less but you get 3x more, and the smithing will go through WAY more per hour

cedar latch
zenith pike
ashen yarrow
#

tick manipulating rubium was close to granite in xp without needing to drop items between

zenith pike
#

The fuck is rubium

ashen yarrow
#

people also could amke close to 2m gp/h tick manipulating it since new resource and smithing xp from it is overtuned

meager flame
#

I mean personally

ashen yarrow
#

the smithing change would completely destroy the gp/h issue on its own

meager flame
#

I think this is insanely embarrassing for jagex

#

People do standard methods we’ve all known about for years

#

Shocked omg look at those rates how could we have known

#

Wtf are they doing lol

final valve
#

not only did they not test the rubium rates

#

but they also didnt test the fact that your keel got disabled when you turned on auto retal

#

until this morning

#

not sure who's meant to be testing what but it's not happening

ashen yarrow
#

mine was taking full damage even without auto retaliate ancestralhmm

final valve
#

lmao i wasted most of my ironwood repair kits on UIM finishing my trawling nets yesterday

#

trying to figure out wtf was going on

meager flame
#

It’s insane to me that their quality of work has just fallen off a cliff

minor whale
#

Yup

#

It's bad

#

The past few updates have been just incredibly not polished at all

zenith pike
#

Are the reqs high for this?

final valve
#

no idea bro hope this helps

meager flame
#

No I don’t think so the quest reqs are low and 3t mining is basic shit

minor whale
#

Nope

#

Very low

#

Like 48 mining and 60 sailing

#

Don't even need a quest outside of access to sailing

final valve
#

Granite having a 45 mining req cba

zenith pike
#

ah

#

Sailing

meager flame
#

The xp obviously scales with level somewhat but there’s no sane reason they didn’t know

zenith pike
#

I understand it now

minor whale
#

I think they straight up ignored the beta feedback

#

People knew about this for a year

meager flame
#

This is like fundamental mining from players

minor whale
#

Solomission featured it in a video

meager flame
#

And someone in charge is allergic to math

#

This requires no testing at all

#

Like lol

#

This is dumb from them

#

It’s like the same guy that did the wrathmaw pitch and used like

#

Completely insane math in their pitch got in here for this one too

#

I find it interesting that their reaction is to delete 3t as well

#

Gives the vibe that they forgot it exists somehow

ashen yarrow
#

btw does the 3tick math count for the chance to deplete without getting extra roll ancestralhmm

meager flame
#

It can if you want it to

#

That’s the nice thing about math lol

minor whale
#

You can pretty easily get 133k/hr consistently

#

There's a route for it

ashen yarrow
#

i know you can move all over the cave to not have to worry about the 10 rocks being depleted at once. just wondering if reddit maths always double roll for xp

meager flame
#

I doubt someone in the community was immediately that in depth since they’d have to figure out how many rocks they were going to include in the rotation

#

Something like that is probably quicker to simulate than formulate

minor whale
#

It doesn't
People did videos on it already hitting 133k/hr

#

For an hour

#

The "perfect" math would be 144k/hr

#

But that's if the random chance depletions were always perfectly 2

#

Which isn't ever gonna happen

#

The route has built in fixes for when the rocks you hit twice and reroll are timed to deplete and regen

hard axle
#

what in the BA spaghetti code

meager flame
#

Bro it’s every update now

#

Lmao I’m so concerned for them

minor whale
tender harness
#

I like how 90% of sailing shit is immune to burn

hard axle
# minor whale I think they straight up ignored the beta feedback

If it wasn't for the fact that resetting hunter traps would be ass, I lowkey just want them to disable tick manipulation to eliminate people using it as a scarecrow argument.

It would make the meta VM, only for people to move on bitch about needing teams, which is far easier to shit on LaughHard

hard axle
#

venom spreading was so good on release

tender harness
#

This aged well

image0.jpg
minor whale
#

This is so good

tender harness
#

Jagex ignoring beta

#

What else is new

true talon
meager flame
#

its unfortunate lol

true talon
#

Not fully true

#

Blizzard is 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000x worst than anything jagex is doing

meager flame
#

nah it is they've been basically slowly but surely walking in that direction for like

#

6 years

#

community interaction dropping

#

hiring more cms as time goes on

#

etc

#

blizzard is just 15 years ahead of them

true talon
#

ive not seen any lack of player engagement from staff

meager flame
#

they're getting there though

#

you should just look around then

#

maybe you forgot what it used to be like

true talon
#

Just becuase its a slow year off a massive update like sailing doesnt mean anything

meager flame
#

but they would have a weekly QA and the devs themselves would regularly respond to real questions and feedback

true talon
#

2 temp game modes which were honestly great

meager flame
#

and they have not been doing that for years now

#

its mostly just stream once or twice to advertise big content patch and let the cms say nothing but be present to engage with the community

true talon
quartz anchor
true talon
#

its been temp game modes lol

meager flame
#

no

#

they did a weekly stream for questions and answers

#

about anything people cared about

true talon
meager flame
#

im just saying they definitely did fall off and do not do as good of a job as they once did

warm quiver
true talon
meager flame
#

yeah but within the last 2 minutes you said it didnt happen at all

quartz anchor
#

To be fair. They're going through change. New lead devs, new devs, and new teams. There will be growing pains.

meager flame
#

so lol

true talon
warm quiver
#

mmm never seen Q&A with the and, mb

true talon
#

DMM and LEAGUES was massive succceses regardless of what the cave dwellers think

meager flame
#

the wild thing is that their strategy continues to evolve in that direction

#

even the cms talk less despite there being more of them

#

its pretty interesting

true talon
#

Ya probably because the moment a pixel is out of place a CM is attacked by a derange lunatic

meager flame
#

im actually kinda curious what they do outside of manage the community

#

since they have more of them they've gotta be doing something

true talon
#

Wahh no new content wahhh

meager flame
#

like im sure they collect community sentiment

#

but it seems like theres kind of a lot of them for that

#

maybe they like assign one or two of them for specific projects and only have them focus on topics about that or something

#

and the devs just do their best to see nothing that the cm doesn't give them

true talon
#

Well they havnt released anything in awhile to get feedback on

#

its been 5 months of tep game modes and sailing fixs lol

meager flame
#

yeah but im sure someone there has been collecting the bitching about absolutely everything to do with sailing

true talon
#

And i think it was all fine, we dont need new content every single day/week....... people should actually go do everything this game has to offer, they will be much happier if they play an ironman an get to enjoy majority of it.

meager flame
#

like you can kinda tell it seems like light is mostly in control of managing sailing as a cm

ashen yarrow
true talon
#

No idea what they trying to accomplish with sailing combat, unless there is bosses its slayer on water........

meager flame
#

so i tend to think they probably do manage specific big projects when it makes sense

#

tbh im glad they didnt go through with ship combat updates after doing the quest

#

it wasn't very good fighting those ships

#

like

#

just on a basic level as soon as i started fighting the ships

#

they stacked up so you couldn't tell which crew was on which ship

ashen yarrow
tacit wharf
#

i felt the fight in the quest went in a good direction

meager flame
#

it just sorta broke the whole decision making process like

tacit wharf
#

ended up with the ships in a tight spot nex tto the island but overall, i saw promise

meager flame
#

i actually did guess correctly and shadow the people off of one ship and cannon the other like i wanted to

#

but

#

it was pretty annoying and i could've easily just killed the wrong stuff wasting my own time

#

and im not really sure exactly what they could do about that

ashen yarrow
#

incendiary cannonballs do seem pretty strong. shot 72 and great white shark started burning 14s

meager flame
#

maybe if they were willing to color code or give them a name that had something to do with the ships name

#

so you could just tell

ashen yarrow
#

102 max hit and it started burning 20s

#

so seems like the burn starts at 20% of you hit

#

wtf this is broken

#

hit a 50 and it burned 6x 10 damage

sacred oracle
#

It's the same vibe as making fun of other players for getting mad about price rises.

tacit wharf
#

more people complaining because the content that is released isnt to their liking, thus ignore that content is being released (even if its a temp mode)

true talon
#

blizzard actually adopted a 8 week patch cycle an its beyond awful

#

they just slamming full of useless stuff

meager flame
#

people are realistic about osrs content though

#

jagex provides content for years on end at a steady rate and then doesn't for 6 months

#

dudes are just below expectations by any measure

tacit wharf
#

we did though

#

they just completely ignored the planned dmm