game-update

[inner pelican]

ehp guys?

[austere mulch]

issue here is theres no filters for burgers

so people would still pot clan/disc/friendslist anyways and complain about the quality of ppl in matchmaking like it were 416

[winged mantle]

People that only care about doing things as efficiently as possible all the time

[inner pelican]

an underappreciated part of the game is balancing what's efficient with what works best for you

slayer just doesn't have that layer of choice

[ashen yarrow]

slayer has a lot of different options for different playstyles. issue is when players dont like turael/aya skipping, dont like slayer task point boosting and also do not like doing slayer tasks that are not the 1 task that they want to do

[meager flame]

yeah but the problem is basically

[true talon]

Muh 200m exp slayer efficiency guys or basically any skill in the game ruin it.

[meager flame]

if they add anything to the game that changes the efficient methods they have a mental break from reality

and jagex really tries to listen to them anyways a lot of the time its pretty bad

[true talon]

They need a stance that xp rates and perks after 99 don’t matter so we can get better 99 perks

[meager flame]

truth is the game just changes and like

things that used to make sense stop making sense all the time

like the slayer system i wouldn't say its so broken you can't fix it but they obviously cannot continue as they have been

[ashen yarrow]

honestly they should just remove all 99 cape perks and bring back cosmetic only capes so people stop asking bis items being 99 capes

[true talon]

Nothing like doing 1-99 15 times to say muh 200m

[true talon]

That’s stupid, cape perks are great and some of the better reasons to get a 99

[winged mantle]

We love getting to 99 slayer and still having to aya skip to do bossing

[austere mulch]

tbh to give them some credit, they do have to be mildly careful about task selection becoming too accessible bc at that point, youd basically only ever do anything on task

[winged mantle]

That's kinda already how it is

[austere mulch]

which tanks economy by making headslot gear less valuable and, likely, bringing in more uniques from bosses

[true talon]

I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

[meager flame]

i think we're already there

[austere mulch]

i mean like, the far end of it in a theoretical world where you can select any task at any point with free will

[tough nacelle]

Headslot gear is already cheaper

[winged mantle]

I am ok to retire the slayer helm

[meager flame]

people just skip for task

[austere mulch]

at least skipping provides some buffer

[ashen yarrow]

people spending longer getting boss tasks than the slayer helm bonus saves on the task. slayer only bosses are different though

[true talon]

The slayer helm perk should just be toggle and not an actual slayer helm

[austere mulch]

not that its a great system by any means at all

[true talon]

But they tied to much stuff like zuk helm to slayer for some reason

[meager flame]

tbh i think their biggest failure is allowing bosses to be slayer tasks

never should've done it

[austere mulch]

yeah tbh, slippery slope there

boss-adjacent tasks are great, like shamans

[tough nacelle]

Well

[true talon]

Idc about boss slayer tasks outside of slayer specific bosses

[tough nacelle]

I think locking bosses behind slayer levels are good

[ashen yarrow]

people losing their minds when they have to kill something without slayer helm bonus. I wonder how these people survive raids without slayer helm bonus

[tough nacelle]

But slayer bosses shouldn’t be on task

[winged mantle]

Locked behind slayer lvls not task only

[true talon]

They get shaman or skeleton tasks

[tough nacelle]

Yeah that would have been better

Ships sailed though

[austere mulch]

community was up in arms when jagex proposed a potential olm task

[winged mantle]

If you want the slayer helm perk - get a task is how it should be

[meager flame]

ya people didnt want them to add more to the bs loop

basically

for most people playing the game

[true talon]

Because the 2 people speed running the game would be forced to get tasks XD

[meager flame]

they're in a loop of doing xyz on task because they're accomplishing multiple goals at once

and they didn't want cox to also become that

its why you shouldn't be able to kill bosses while doing slayer honestly

[winged mantle]

Imagine shamans were task only for chamber ☠️

[true talon]

I don’t think anyone does slayer tasks for bosses to accomplish two goals

[meager flame]

they do

[true talon]

I don’t go skip tasks till I get the boss I’m farm that would be dumb

[winged mantle]

I do

[meager flame]

correct they skip while training slayer and incrementally work on the other bosses

instead of camping a boss

[winged mantle]

I have a lot of bosses I've greenlogged.

Why repeat a boss that has been completed

[meager flame]

its not just bosses either

you think i got my zenytes off task

nope grabbed them when black demons popped up

because doing otherwise is a waste of time

[winged mantle]

I did like 1300 off task

[true talon]

Ehh I don’t value 15% accuracy and damage that highly

[winged mantle]

Back when I didn't tureal skip

[meager flame]

i mean its not even about how you value it

you're gonna train slayer and you're gonna get zenytes

[winged mantle]

It's pretty substantial

[meager flame]

only one correct answer honestly if you were trying to do it well

[ashen yarrow]

its not even 15% in most cases since you replace dps helm with it anyway

[obsidian venture]

It’s massive wws

You don’t have to like it for some reason

But it’s too good

[ashen yarrow]

yes slayer helm bonus is good, but is it worth task skipping for 30minutes to get it

[obsidian venture]

I do a fair bit of slayer and have done a lot of boss tasks with it

[true talon]

Slayer bonus should just be a perk that you sac a black mask to the slayer master to unlock

Then anything on task takes 15% more damage/accuracy

[austere mulch]

15% acc or damage on their own is huge enough

15% BOTH is really strong

[winged mantle]

For high def bosses yeah

[ashen yarrow]

yes, which is why it is locked behind having to be on slayer task. People just want to have it without needing to be assigned a random task so they can abuse it always, which leaves normal helm slot items only for raids since those dont have tasks

[tacit wharf]

so what yr saying is just, remove the ability for slayer helm to work on boss monsters that dont require a slayer level?

[true talon]

Ya probably. That might allow us to have more control over tasks.

[hasty shard]

buff all dps by 15% and remove slayer helm

[meager flame]

i actually do think game is probably better if slayer helm just doesn't exist

its one of those things that sounded cool but actually its not

like

lol

we could be doing tasks at roughly the same speed by just adjusting hp instead of having a random spiky helmet that just has to be worn at all times

its honestly a very runescape situation lol theres a million ways to solve everything they wanted to get at with the slayer helm but they built out a pretty insane solution instead of doing any of the more obvious stuff

[bronze kernel]

Slayer Helm is just a fancier black mask. Which was added in 2006.

[meager flame]

ya like

[bronze kernel]

The only downside is just the tasks you can't use a black mask for (Dust devils, banshees, nose peg, and wall beasts on release. Later sourhogs)

[meager flame]

there were several steps to the logic

i remember when none of it existed and basically

people didn't like how slow slayer was and other people didn't like how they had to wear bad helmets right

so they let us have the mask and slayer felt a little faster

then it felt even worse to not be able to use it

so we got the slayer helmet

when really lol if you could go back to the very start

[bronze kernel]

Slayer still has its problems. Mainly with tasks.

[meager flame]

you probably just buff slayer exp a bit and then maybe consider dropping a lot of the silly unique designs like nosepegs

[bronze kernel]

There's a reason why Turael skipping is a thing people do.

[hasty shard]

they DID make slayer helm a passive on rs3

[bronze kernel]

(Also I find it offensive they didn't add jellies back to Duradel's task table)

[true talon]

This is the best way, but you already know they tried to bake to much reward space into slayer helm cosmetics.

Even current league has oathplate slayer helm XD

[narrow folio]

Feels like it would be a ca unlock rather than leagues

[hasty shard]

serp helm

[chrome lantern]

Yeah I agree immensely

Even if they wanted to keep the ability to tskip if out of pts etc. I once suggested like Turael says “are you sure” then “come back in 10 minutes and I’ll give you a new task”

[hard axle]

I rather they keep turael skipping because every rework that I see people suggest to remove it, inevitably comes with making the process complete shit first before even discussing points.

It's not the worst system and a time-gated skip system is meh when the big motivation is to get fast skips or a dedicated task. Some tasks are also super short/don't have extensions, but they're so good that you want them (nearly all boss tasks) passively.

[chrome lantern]

I do think slayer helm is a huge liability that pushes everything toward only being done on-task

[hard axle]

It's a fine middle ground between using points for skips on release or during bingo and slayer unlocks imo

[tacit wharf]

problem is u cant talk about fixing tasks, till you do something about turael

[hard axle]

The helm getting removed but still keeping dps is just a buff though

[hasty shard]

maybe they should buff bad tasks

[chrome lantern]

I mean my real answer is that we just need something that is entirely an alternative to the task system and/or an entire point/streak overhaul, maybe master-specific streaks as part of it, at the same time as making turael skipping less viable

[chrome lantern]

I never said anything about keeping task-only dps

[hard axle]

Another problem is people want different things.

If you told me I could increase boss tasks to 300 kc a task, I would hunt and point skip endlessly for that. But the average joe doesn't want a giga task.

I don't want a super mega smoke devil task. If it isn't something I want, I wanna skip or I want it super short

[hasty shard]

like you can extend tasks but not decrease them
y

[hard axle]

repsonding to both ur comment + the comment u responded to

[chrome lantern]

Fair

[bronze kernel]

Just let us choose the task and remove skips.

Or maybe at least like with this League, a choice among a few picks

[chrome lantern]

I think we just really need an alternative to the single method of engaging with slayer that is the archaic system

Barring that or in parallel with that, a massive overhaul of task lists and the point/streak systems

[hard axle]

I don't think that's fair because the entire point of the 15% dps buff was to offset the time loss from not being able to do what you want. You'd have to remove that buff and I'd like to keep it personally.

[tacit wharf]

i also think, if one chooses to do a boss task from a normal task (doing cerb instead of hellhounds) it should be a given a lesser amount to do, kinda like how tzharrs/jad but not quite that small of boss kc as jad

[bronze kernel]

Or we can delete Slayer and return max to 2777

[chrome lantern]

But overall the slayer helm boost and tasks like dagannoth, greater demons, black demons, etc. existing just leads to anything that can be boosted dps and slayer xp killed on task only ever being killed on-task.

You often get a task that you’re not in the mood for, but feel obligated to do because you need the stuff from it, it’s a high xp task, etc.

[tacit wharf]

i mean, task storage

[chrome lantern]

But even with task storage that just pushes it to holding onto that task for weeks until you want to do it

And then getting a second copy of it

And being in the exact same place

[round lintel]

gotta be honest, leagues format of chosing how many instead of rng number

just like boss tasks

[tacit wharf]

honestly in the camp of, it it doesnt req a slayer helm, then a slay helm just doesnt give a bonus for it

[chrome lantern]

My average hydra task took multiple months because I just never wanted to do it and it was soul-crushingly long and boring, which effectively just means I don’t have task storage

[round lintel]

when Hydra came out i skipped 3k points, and went from 97 slayer to 15M xp

took me a month to get one

[hard axle]

my boss tasks…

[round lintel]

a month of Konar slayer btw

[chrome lantern]

Took me 2549 kc to get claw but that took me years because I would get a task (possibly another in storage after they made storage swap free) and then stop doing slayer for literally months

[hard axle]

Btw, give me Nagua extensions ty

[bronze kernel]

Honestly, what even sparked this discussion to begin with?

[hard axle]

Oh and a super boss task extension ty

[chrome lantern]

“I can’t skip this task because I need claw but it’s awful”
“Even if I skipped it I’d just be wasting my time doing slayer without doing hydra tasks”
etc.

[round lintel]

tbh i keep the "Like a boss" solely for dt2 bosses

[hard axle]

Yup, Hydra is actually a brick wall for pet hunters

[round lintel]

specially Levi and whisp

[hard axle]

dude, Levi on task is actually somewhat okay 😭

No fishing for rubies

Just flick until gear 7

[chrome lantern]

I think it started with talking about leagues and putting slayer and clue relics entirely into passives like they’ve already been working toward with the superior chances, scroll boxes, etc.

[round lintel]

on a main is ok on my iron which i gotta use bowfa is not

[hard axle]

No no, BP on task

Main off task is zcb camp

it’s shit

[chrome lantern]

I loved leviathan on and off task

[round lintel]

im saying i keep the perk just for those tasks

[chrome lantern]

I un-unlocked boss slayer tasks because imbued heart and dragon sheets grind

Now I just haven’t done slayer in months and they’re planning to make sheets make more sense oh boy

I really despise task-only rates and enemies and bosses

[hard axle]

But yeah, I understand why slayer is a sticky point

We all want diff things out of it

I like it cuz I get passively get tasks while wfh or progressing on another task

[round lintel]

they have been quiet on what they are doing on the sweep up

[hard axle]

So that when I’m actually playing, I get a 0 time 15% dps boost

[chrome lantern]

Realistically I want it to not exist but it strangleholds an entire style behind the heart and do many bosses/content and gear behind it

[round lintel]

I wish they say whats comming

[chrome lantern]

So I do it despite hating it until I just don’t touch it for months at a time

[hard axle]

at the same time, they use this inability to pot at any time as a means of balance too

[chrome lantern]

That’s the thing I hate the most though

[hard axle]

Would doubling slayer points be enough or nah

Or halving skips

[chrome lantern]

Double is still really minor

95% of tasks are garbage

[hard axle]

reduce skips to 10 points?

or 12

Or scale them idk

Similar to block lists

[tacit wharf]

or how about you learn to actually manage yr pts, like you should be doing, and not chasing only 2 or 3 specific tasks

[chrome lantern]

But yeah like
-The boss content isn’t even an absurdly high gp/hr when you already have the task, compared to top moneymakers
-You can never do the thing you want when you want to do it

[chrome lantern]

95% of tasks are just trash slow singlecombat with worthless loot, why tf would I ever waste time doing them

And then of the remaining tasks half of them are a bad imbued heart rate

[round lintel]

Horrible tasks:

Suquah
Kurasks
Turoths
Wyrms
Drakes
Spiritual creatures
Wyverns
Fossil island Wyvenrs
Black Dragons
Blue Dragons

and then I still got a block list

[chrome lantern]

How tf do you not have metal dragons on there

[round lintel]

Elves on my block list

[chrome lantern]

Such low weight surely trolling

[round lintel]

Metal dragons are bronze to steel no?

I do have metal dragons on my block list

[tacit wharf]

bronze to rune mate

[chrome lantern]

I’m confused by your list

[round lintel]

pretty sure i still get black dragons

[chrome lantern]

What is your list

Tasks that aren’t blocked that you don’t like?

[round lintel]

Correct

[tacit wharf]

u what

[chrome lantern]

Oh I see that was confusing to me

You just said “horrible tasks”

But yeah I also firmly put kalphites into the “horrible task” category and trolls and bloodveld and so many others

[round lintel]

i mean is a 7 min task with cannon

[chrome lantern]

There’s so much zero or low req stuff that just never has a reason for you to touch it in your life

[chrome lantern]

7 min is long for a worthless task

[tacit wharf]

wasted cannonballs

[chrome lantern]

^

[round lintel]

my block list

[tacit wharf]

what

[round lintel]

at Kuradel

[tacit wharf]

u can unlock a block for fossil island wyverns

suqahs are a lower weight, so are trolls

[chrome lantern]

At duradel

But yeah suquah, trolls, and kalphites are prime examples of “why tf is this on here” and not at most an optional unlock task

[round lintel]

One thing that idk why is a thing: if you unlocked something with points and you want to remove it for some time you have to pay points again

[tacit wharf]

i do agree there are things that can be dropped and shuffled between slayer masters but as we discussed before, i find yr lack of wanting to do anymore than a few select tasks a big part of the problem (basically doing nothing that doesnt have a heart chance)

[chrome lantern]

I mean fundamentally I just hate the slayer task system entirely so it doesn’t shock me that you see it that way, even on my main it was by far my most hated skill because of tasks loooooong before I made an iron

[round lintel]

idk if you are but if its only heart what you want wildy slayer may be better than regular

[chrome lantern]

But yes the vast vast majority of slayer tasks are menial labor I would never touch with a 5000 foot pole

[chrome lantern]

Wildy tasks with superiors are very uncommon and have bad superior rates

[tacit wharf]

i can agree on this

[chrome lantern]

Like yes there’s 10% more abyssal demon superiors but those tasks are very rare and not even “worth” killing compared to smokes and araxytes

[tacit wharf]

once unlocked, u shouldnt have to unlock it again

[chrome lantern]

Yeah for sure

I also don’t like the slayer helm points cost either because you’re just telling someone to have a worse experience with slayer (fewer skips) to get it, it doesn’t really mean anything that you have to get 1k points for each recolor it just makes it less pleasant

[round lintel]

but wildy slayer cave has a slightly higher percentage to spawn superiors

[chrome lantern]

It doesn’t make the product any better

[chrome lantern]

I mentioned that

[tacit wharf]

honestly slayer is my fall back to, i dont feel like doing anything, so ill just do slayer

[chrome lantern]

Eww

Slayer is the thing that I have to completely force myself to do because of how awful it is to engage with at all levels and in all ways

[round lintel]

what to me doesnt make sense is why any other combat has an ez boost but magic doesnt

[tacit wharf]

and just break it up into: dont wanna do, has clogs i want, can afk and want to do tasks

[round lintel]

making the forgotten brews requires sooo many steps

[chrome lantern]

Forgotten brews are also just bad because they’re worse than heart, not divine, and drain melees

[round lintel]

and the potion before that not to mention you can kill 1k ancient spiritual mage and get like 10 nihil shards only

or do nex trios - 4 men for 200 kills and end up with like 700?

while the mage potion is only a +5?

range pot +13

super str, def, att +19

and like he said it doesnt lower any stat

to be honest heart shouldnt be this rare

[bronze kernel]

I think the biggest issue with Slayer will always boil down to tasks. So many tasks are a skip or block since they take way too long to kill. The best ones always end up being quick ones or ones with an associated boss or demi-boss alternative.

I think we can start by removing cannon restrictions in some places (Like the Fremmenik Slayer Cave)

And making it multi

No one wants to do a task if they have to kill everything one by one and taking ages.

[candid canyon]

Wait why was pirate encounters binned based on "players not really wanting it". Where is this coming from reddit, discord? I'd be willing to bet 95% or more of players are not actively commenting on these forums. You should poll the feature before discarding it due to vocal minorities.

[tacit wharf]

it wasnted binned

[vital portal]

I'm not sure but I wouldn't be a fan of them myself.

[tacit wharf]

it was put on hold for now

[candid canyon]

No what Mod Light said was different than on hold

[tacit wharf]

pretty sure its quite literally finished content

[candid canyon]

It's not happening unless "players really want it" and they cant determine if players want it without a poll

[tacit wharf]

they want to make sure the basics of combat are better finished before released

[candid canyon]

"We're not proceeding with them for now, but we're open to releasing them in the future if the community wants us to. The new cannonballs will be part of Red Reef, since they were polled a while ago, and we're polling Bosun's Bench as part of Red Reef."

How do we know if the community wants them to without the poll?

[tacit wharf]

FOR NOW

not its binned/canceled

from the blog

[bronze kernel]

Problem with ship combat is it feels like they are trying to force a minigame system into the game.

And the two systems aren't compatible

So we have to do copium fixess

[candid canyon]

They must of edited that into the blog, the original wording was "We're no longer proceeding with Pirate Encounters" exactly

[tacit wharf]

that was day of mate

[candid canyon]

you mean the day most people read the blog and don't check for wording updates?

[vital portal]

I wouldn't describe it like that. But Ship Combat is like this whole system a good chunk of people got really hyped about but probably wasn't the central focus of Sailing.

[earnest light]

They restore prayer a bit but they are locked behind a very high skill requirement. I can't imagine many ironmen have 91 herb or even 87 herb and are boosting with pie without already having very high magic

[bronze kernel]

The biggest issue with ship combat IMO is boiling down to how the creatures interact with the boat's HP instead of your own.

[tacit wharf]

the day the blog was released

[tacit wharf]

why would they interact with yr hp

[earnest light]

Why do gulls attack the boat but not the player

[bronze kernel]

I could see stuff like Krakens shooting bolts at your player

[tacit wharf]

i mean good point, but why would orca's and sharts interact with yr hp

[vital portal]

I'm fine with the boat HP mechanics

[tacit wharf]

its a non-issue

[vital portal]

Heal at the Shipwright, pack a few health packs, not that different

[earnest light]

It'd be coold if some stuff attacked you directly and made combat ships install a range and trawling net to supply themselves with food

[bronze kernel]

The ship combat system needs to be an entirely standalone system with its own rules IMO and mechanics

They should just suck it up and abandon making cannons the main focus and just have them be supplemental (Like thralls)

[earnest light]

Grape shot for smaller targets when

[bronze kernel]

Or just make cannons better as standalone (And introduce more options)

Like I said. Let me have my mast be made into a giant powered staff that I can rain down magical blasts at enemies

[vital portal]

I'm fine with just continued buffs to Ship DPS.

[bronze kernel]

Let me turn my boat into a dreadnought

[earnest light]

Give us a reason to use up hemp and cotton linen and canvas to pack grape shot loads that do more damage to smaller creatures
And make cannons with regular cannonballs miss more on smaller targets

[vital portal]

"Do damage but good" is all I really need.

[chrome lantern]

4 boost

[bronze kernel]

Let me have like 4 cannons. Maybe front facing ballistas

Magical stone shooting fire surge at enemies at the top of my mast

[earnest light]

I've wanted ballistas with harpoons that let you drag a mob around

[chrome lantern]

Forgotten brew prayer boost is irrelevant and so is magic level, most magic boosting is after 99 for powered staff maxhits

[chrome lantern]

Why would you ever want to do that though

[earnest light]

To get them lined up at the front of the boat for both sides to fire on them at once and easier

[bronze kernel]

Have you ever played Valheim?

[vital portal]

If the BIS is supposed to be Dragon Cannons, I'd at least expect them to do as good as like, T92 Weapons. But it's hard to gauge currently, and Dragon/Rune cannonballs are still not exactly in high supply

[chrome lantern]

No

[chrome lantern]

But you put all your cannons on one side

[earnest light]

You can now sure but couldn't before

May also make you able to drag pirate ships closer for boarding if that comes around

[chrome lantern]

They have said many times that they expect room for upgrades above all currently available facilities

[bronze kernel]

But in all seriousness, being able to drag a mob into a particular spot more easily without having to wiggle around and navigate can be useful

[earnest light]

The prayer boost isn't entirely irrelevant if you can find a use for it
Having a magic booster and prayer restore in one potion isn't so bad

[chrome lantern]

It’s negligible

And if it’s part of the justification for why they drain your melee stats it would be way better to not have any prayer restoration/boost

Because the melee drain is so horrendously awful to trying to use them especially at places like pnm

[earnest light]

I mean to be fair it's basically the nex/zarosian aligned god brew
Sara brews boost def and give hp and reduce everything else
Armadyl brews boost range and give some hp while draining everything else
Zamorak brews boost attack more than super attacks, do a str boost, hp reduction and defence reduction, and also give prayer
Forgotten brews do mage and prayer and reduce melees

Perhaps divine magic potions would be better for you than forgotten brews if the melee drain is such a burden

[chrome lantern]

The only detail that matters is that it’s horrendously awful as a magic boost

Nothing else about it matters

It’s the only option that gets remotely close to the heart and is still way worse

Magic potions might as well not exist

I’m not going to pretend the other quirks of it matter

[earnest light]

Those brews are used by people plank making earlier than they normally can

It's got niche uses

[chrome lantern]

That’s pretty troll because plank make sucks

But sure someone could barrage with them earlier for slayer on a main

[earnest light]

It makes money and is magic xp

[chrome lantern]

It’s still an awful potion

Bad moneymaker and bad magic xp

If you’re doing it for afk go afk something more worthwhile in any other skill

[earnest light]

For you maybe, for others maybe not
You can manual cast it fast too

If they're boosting for that they're probably manual casting fast

[round lintel]

maybe bots are doing this

nobody with 4 fingers in their forehead would do this to train magic or for money

[earnest light]

Guess i'm a bot cus i boosted for plank make but i used heart

[vital portal]

I liked boosting with Div pots

used it for lots of Lunar skilling

Used to do a lot of Lunar Tele tablet making for afk money

[meager flame]

I can’t even lie they’ve lost me so much with sailing combat that I hope they don’t even update it anymore lol

Rather just let it slip away quietly and never see it again

It’s just so unbelievably inferior to regular combat that maybe they should just quit now

Just let me board big pirate ships or whatever and do regular combat

[hasty shard]

sailing combat is like limply throwing a ball and saying you cant aim theres just no effort into it lol

its insane how mechanically shallow it is

[narrow folio]

trawling is pretty deep

[hasty shard]

its so deep we cant reach it

[tacit wharf]

grow longer arms

[ashen yarrow]

rune cannonballs are at a very good usage currently. If you are doing highest tier sea creatures you are almost breaking even after the rune cannonball drops from the mobs if you are shooting the cannon yourself. In general you use barely any cannonballs after the cannon changes and ava's device being added

Like using only 340 cannonballs per hour per cannon if shooting non stop for full hour

Dragon cannonballs are same as other dragon ammo, you are not supposed to be able to use them for every single enemy unless you buy them from ge

[true talon]

I cant figure out how to kill the vasa crystal in a 4 scale 🙁 its just an RNG check. also its wild that none of the stab weps are superior to scythe when it has 180 slash defense. and why does it have 103 base defense??

[minor whale]

Isn't Rapier better in that ss?

[south void]

Oh NVM it's the crystal not vasa itself

Disregard my inability to read

Did you happen to plug in fang on stab? Can't tell from on my phone

[south void]

Dps shows yes, rapier better and ttk lower

[south void]

If you look at the ttk (time to kill) the rapier is superior due to the accuracy and dps being higher in that chart. You can have a max hit of 87 on the scythe but hit less often due to only having 67.07% accuracy.
If you plug in the fang on stab, you may even see higher ttk.

[true talon]

it is, but i dont got 1

Fang is not better either

Maybe i use fang and spec if dicey?

Inquis mace or fang maybe is good enough

I think fang accuracy + min hit should be enough.....

[true talon]

Fang was enough

[chrome lantern]

I don’t think this is the chambers of xeric scaled raids channel or the game questions channel

[austere mulch]

In the three 1+4s I did, oathplate scythe was waaaay better at killing the crystal

Because even with average, you’re not killing it with rapier

You gotta play for the variance which favors scythe

Similar to how scythe was still preferred pre-nerf fang on tekton. Because average for fang was 3down

[true talon]

1+3 fang is enough to do it. i tried scythe an hally its just bad lol

[austere mulch]

Didn’t try fang myself, did a run with Torva rapier and 2 runs with oath scythe

And the 2 runs with scythe combined had less crystals than rapier LOL

[true talon]

yeai tried nox hally to also serve as poison cleanse for vespula fails

FANG didnt fail at all, so it was nice

I just need to not fail 1 teleport crystal, because if you fail its +300 hp lol the tbow noodles and you fail another its +300 hp again

I think i did 2k damage to vasa one run XD

[terse totem]

Can they update the warning to the entrance to Bryophyta's lair so that it can be toggled off?

[true talon]

@austere mulch Rewarded XD

I entered without my scythe an had to die

[near widget]

we've all wanted that for a long long long time xD

doesnt seem like its gonnah appen

[terse totem]

but it'd be such a simple fix. They toggle warnings for so many other things.

[near widget]

people have been asking for it for so long though and its still not here

[near widget]

the corporate overlords really could hire a lot more devs with all the money theyre making, but sadly they dont so the devs have to pick and choose what they focused on a lot more than they should have to

[meager flame]

tbf the team gets larger and the content releases dont increase

current team is getting absolutely spanked by the group that did cox to tob for example

and im afraid to try and research how much smaller that team was

seems like direction/ideas are far more important than number of developers

[near widget]

thats always true

[ember token]

more cooks in the kitchen doesnt make the food faster

[thick beacon]

feel like overall since toa release game has been just getting better in terms of content releases/updates

think 2019-early 2022 was really mediocre

[meager flame]

well my theory on that honestly

is mostly based on what jagex themselves said and how its happening again almost 1:1

basically they hire more people arguably too many and it takes time and resources to train them

and they also focus on big releases more and more in recent years

so

in 2021 what happened was they were getting people ready to make content and also big updates got pushed back/delayed and they ended up doing dmm/leagues back to back with not much content for the whole year

which is oddly exactly what 2026 has been turning into

its probably just them running out of gas and having to spend time rebuilding

[thick beacon]

2026 has summer sweep blood moon sailing fixes/a entire raid i feel like thats pretty good idk

[meager flame]

its not very much content

blood moon is already delayed content we were originally supposed to have already had

[thick beacon]

2019-2022 highlight of big releases imo was just reskinned tob/cox and nm in 3 years like u said i think its largely because over leauge focus

[meager flame]

back in 2021 they just flat out admitted they wouldn't like to do temp modes back to back but other content got delayed so they filled with it

so to see them do it again it pretty much means one thing most likely

unless they changed their minds its because they ran out of content to put in the game

and projects are delayed

[thick beacon]

idk i feel like ppl expectations are worse like idt many ppl expected sailing to release last year even

or raid this year

[meager flame]

im not sure i actually expect the raid this year tbf

[thick beacon]

i feel like its been getting better its not lvl of cox tob/inferno but its a much better middle ground

[meager flame]

almost every end of roadmap content piece they advertise gets pushed back

[thick beacon]

they create updates for everyone and summer sweep up is a big thing to

[meager flame]

bc they're honestly kind of projecting too far into the future by even trying to put something there

each time we see a summit

so its not even really a surprise that many get delayed

[thick beacon]

delayed by month or 2 isint a big deal imo i tihnk we will see the content this year but only time will tell

[meager flame]

well like the raid got put on winter right

[thick beacon]

ye

[meager flame]

that means it could be a 2027 update and still be winter

[thick beacon]

thats what ppl were saying about sailing and they got it way sooner

[meager flame]

hopefully they dont do what they did with sailing lol

if we get a raid that's like

unfinished idk what the comment sections would be looking like

[thick beacon]

they arent perfect but i think we are at all time player counts for a reason/imo best era of the game overall

[meager flame]

tbh i dont really like how people try to compare it to eras or whatever because its like

it doesn't even mean anything like right now in 2026 if we were considering everything the golden age

its over

this year ended it

but it doesn't even matter lol

[thick beacon]

last year we got 2endgame pvm releases and sweepup and sailing this year a raid etc idk

2019-2022 was 10x worse idt even 3years of that content compares to 2years of this idk

its not even about eras players logging in is best sign for everyone on how game is actually doing imo

[meager flame]

you can actually see it is affecting people logging in though

today is the lowest point since july last year and it looks like its still rapidly falling

the league had a good run trying to sustain but it actually came up slightly short of last december

just looking at it monthly anyways

there was a weird sharp drop last september too if you want to go weekly but im not really sure what that was about

[thick beacon]

id imagine any slight fluncations are still way higher then even 2016-2018 era of the game

[meager flame]

ya for the moment but the thing that matters is how quickly they're losing those players

basically this

you can see the players are playing and then abandoning ship at an insane rate currently

[thick beacon]

part of that could just be the leaugers coming and dipping like usal

[meager flame]

yeah but the league lost a peak of basically all of the players that might have started playing around the time sailing was happening

in like

almost no time

we're actually below where it was before the league started currently

they're definitely paying for not having content since sailing

[thick beacon]

idk if u are looking at 2026 roadmap etc and see game as going in wrong direction or a L idt anything in osrs will ever appeal to you going forward

i agree sailing has had a lot of dev time in it but i think this is part of jagex new approach to where they spend dev time in general

they really are trying to flesh out older content rework systems etc rather then spam adding new content

even summer sweep is a waste of time that could just be spent on more new content

[meager flame]

its not about the roadmap its about how they haven't actually released content in like 6 months

right now they're basically going through the world of warcraft cycle where they try and bridge the gap with big huge things like a league and then they struggle with retention and the players leave as fast as they came in

rather than their usual steady content cycle where they actually retain a lot of their players and grow over time

[true talon]

I got salt again, truly tragic 🙁

[inner pelican]

what did game stability look like around that time though? that's an important piece of context imo

it's easy to look back on old content fondly if it's been working properly or 'just accepted' for years now

where they may be way more concerned with 'getting it right' nowadays

[meager flame]

generally speaking the game has only been growing since 2014

[inner pelican]

(debatable if they're doing a good job of it tho)

by stability i'm talking bugs and balance

[meager flame]

oh the last couple of years have been the worst i've ever experienced in terms of game stability probably

outside of when jagex would just get hit offline every day

they have a lot of weird bugs now

im assuming its because they're actually making big changes to the engine now

where before lack of anyone to do anything with the engine was sometimes a blessing in disguise lol

[thick beacon]

idt there was many balance patches during that time. alot of big reworks and even nerfs came post 2021 (magic dmg balance ele weaknesess etc bp nerf fang nerf) zulrah drop table was like the only big change i remember from that time peroid.

void nerf was pretty big to ig

[meager flame]

its just interesting because im sure everyone can think of some random famous bug like the tbow bush or whatever but

generally we didn't log in on wed and xyz content didn't work or whatever

now its like hey we released a league change and zebak waves are underground

and that stuff just happens like

all the time now

[inner pelican]

hopefully that just means we're suffering extra right now to make the next few years pain-free

[meager flame]

in a way its kind of expected right since now they have more engine dev access and they're messing with stuff

[thick beacon]

that stuff sucks ye but like its very short imo they fix it fast generally

[meager flame]

idk if theres really going to be much of an end date to that happening though

[minor whale]

Unfortunately I doubt it

So many tiny weird bugs being missed that should be routinely found as part of just general QA

Gem Sack upgrade from mole would get turned in when you talked to Wyson and deleted. They added a dialogue option that lets you choose "No" to not turn it in...but it still deleted it. They added something and then didn't even test if the thing they added did anything

Then they discover that UIMs using the sack (which have their own unique interface for it due to how their accounts work and not being able to bank the gems) were able to pull infinite gems out. So the single account type that has something unique they didn't even test if it worked.

And this was just a gem sack upgrade

And this quantity and quality of bug has been happening all year.

At some point the "it's just spaghetti!" excuse stops being funny to players

If it's spaghetti and you aren't routinely testing more to be able to find bugs that are as hard to find as "did you try using the item or selecting the dialogue option you just added" then I dunno

[icy relic]

it's hard to survive by content cycles though, eventually you run out of midgame slop as exemplified by the failure of pretty much all of the sailing rewards

so as everyone clamors for more content you're either forced to release things that aren't up to par quality-wise or you accelerate powercreep which was alraeady made so much worse the last 2 years

[manic star]

Will poh's ever be fixed...

[minor whale]

How are they broken?

[ashen yarrow]

i think last time he was saying something like scammers use his house to do trade scam so he cannot host anymore

[chrome lantern]

A lot of content recently has been characterized by trying to cater to everyone and having it be unsatisfying for the majority of people

It really started with ToA, and ToA is the most blatant and obvious example

But like Yama was supposed to be endgame content too and they made it a midgame boss with an awful contract system designed to try to force earlygame players to care about killing demons so that endgame players could have a horrible experience trying to engage with “endgame” contracts that literally didn’t even work ok release

Doom is neat as a concept if they actually made deep delves or even late shallow delves more worth it instead of giving uniques on piss easy waves

And the delve loot risking isn’t really pleasant to anyone involved

I put my thoughts on that specific aspect pretty extensively in https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1501551102724931745 but overall I just think the delve loot system is a significant net negative

[ashen yarrow]

yeah no one likes to lose things, that is why the same people also hate wilderness

[chrome lantern]

Colo as well was nothing like how it was proposed, it was supposed to have “roguelike” and “endless” elements, but we just got a punishment system that somehow feels even worse than ToA invocations

Sunfire armor and echo crystals were pitched as accessible midgame but was released as late-wave reward

Even now it’s not somehing any midgame player would ever actually go for

Content since ToA has pretty much just been fraught with compromises that make it unsatisfying, or just explicitly designed for earlygame like Moons and Royal Titans

To be clear, I actually think Royal Titans was a great release and is still a fun encounter at high levels

But in that aspect it feels more fun for lategame to actually engage with than Yama or Doom lmao

As someone who personally enjoys deep delves and has a pb of 41

And has oath top/bottom/horn on my iron (idc about helm much since I have torva)

[warm epoch]

I still feel like this should have been repolled

[chrome lantern]

Sailing also was just explicitly designed to not really touch anywhere near the meta for anything other than better manta rays, karambwans, afk woodcutting, and a couple niche potions despite being an entirely new skill

[warm epoch]

If they can't make it work, they can't release it

[chrome lantern]

There are so, so, so many things they’ve polled horribly or just not polled at all

Most blatant example being Yama contracts

When those released in the form they did I honestly wish there had been outrage

Up until the point they released I was still under the impression it would just essentially be “which mode of Yama are you fighting” like picking a single invocation, not a worse orb system

Because there was literally no poll on contracts

Just one short abstract paragraph saying you could sign contracts to change the fight and affect your rewards

[warm epoch]

The outrage should've been for the current version of the polling charter

[chrome lantern]

Yes

[warm epoch]

You vote on a vague concept, like "duo boss" and that's all

[chrome lantern]

Even the polling threshold alone tbh

[warm epoch]

Any design element? Meh lol

[chrome lantern]

The worst part is that they barely even follow it

Only when it’s convenient

[warm epoch]

Fully agree, but I've had plenty of discussions here with people thinking Jagex fully follows it

[chrome lantern]

They designed a polling charter to let them poll whatever they want in whatever way they can get away with to get it to pass

[warm epoch]

So I've just given up on that personally

[chrome lantern]

With a lower threshold for no reason whatsoever as well

[warm epoch]

Yep yep

[chrome lantern]

Like it we’re supposed to actually use the new polling charter then it makes even less sense to change the threshold

Because it should be super easy to greenlight “should we make a new boss/quest”

[warm epoch]

Like the initial poll question imo is fine

But it needs more follow up

[chrome lantern]

And then if the content sucks it should be able to be shot down

[warm epoch]

Yep lol

I don't even mind if the followup has a super majority honestly

"you all wanted this boss, but do we go route A or B"

And ofc if both routes truly suck, change that

But I'm very sure contracts would have never pleased the community

[chrome lantern]

It’s still staggering to me that there’s been no change to either orbs or contracts

Surely 2026 sweep up (I have zero hopes)

Even ingots they changed in the worst possible way

Designing an item that was mathematically impossible to stay above alch value in the long term and existed only to screw over ironmen, then changing it such that you just don’t care about them at all anymore instead of getting rid of them entirely and replacing them with just alch value worth of coins

It’s insulting

[chrome lantern]

Yeah right now the only way content gets shot down or changed ever is a vague test of social media and content creator sentiment

If people aren’t pissed enough about it then nothing will change even if people frequently point out more logical alternatives, to the point that we get things like Doom rewards blog v5 and they eventually just feel like they’ve given up and want to push something to poll

[warm epoch]

I was at 3 vestiges 2 ingots for the longest time, it's truly a worthless drop mechanic

Same with the orbs, basically required to practice on a main even if you get a ton of orbs on the iron because they're too precious to use

[ashen yarrow]

everything ends up becoming leechfin fish then if community is split in it being mechanically difficult or easily farmable boss and they are left with only a shell that passed but nothing about the content passes

[south void]

This 🫣. I'm all for polling content, but the pain at having so many polls about a sandwich 🥪 was a little silly.

[ashen yarrow]

if they start polling everything then we can expect there to never be anything near awakened boss version difficulty without them completely skipping poll for the content

[warm epoch]

Nah I disagree, I doubt contracts would've split the community for example

Leechfin started with something that just goes against an aspect of old school, so it just started with a lot of hate

[tender harness]

Damica is too busy defending jagex to be bothered to have a coherent conversation

[bronze kernel]

sometimes I miss the allure of not knowing all the details

Not being told every single last detail of upcoming content and then being disappointed it didn't meet your expectations of what they say it was

[ashen yarrow]

So saying that they shouldnt poll every single awakened boss mechanic is defending jagex because it limits what they can plan for the bosses

[tender harness]

This works if it doesnt release in states like Yama contracts

Or doesnt release like doom

[warm epoch]

You're confusing two things. One is every single mechanic of a boss, the other is how the boss can be approached in the first place

Removing orbs right now would limit absolutely nothing from any of the awakened bosses

[true talon]

Dunno I think Yama doom and toa are fine content could use some touch ups but they are fine as is. You speak about uniques on easy waves but they are extremely rare. It’s like whining about a 150 shadow when it’s like getting 3rd age.

Doom base loot needed some changes, because it is so bad that you don’t even have to care about risking it.

[tacit wharf]

some people in here forget they are the top 2% of the game

[true talon]

Those people are not even top 2% lol

[tacit wharf]

but u get where im coming from

[true talon]

yea i know. elitist mentality. they have no clue how entitled and privlleged they are to have a DEV team like this..... no other game in the world is this customer engaged. and they really shouldnt be trying to please everyone. ESP not the loud minority who think everything they release is to easy.

[warm epoch]

the game is good because of the feedback loop, not despite it

[true talon]

Go play a dif game were the devs put out whatever they feel like and ruin majority of your gameplay with bad updates an then your stuck with it untill 6 months later.

In osrs anything they add is never a bad thing, it can get involved in the game in some shape or form, maybe not for the very end game players, but the more they add the better progression paths get.

[tacit wharf]

there is only one other that i can think of, and thats was john and chris over at poe (GG)

[true talon]

Wow lol

[warm epoch]

the dt2 orbs and yama contracts are seen by nearly everyone as bad things though

[true talon]

Yea this was a mistake, but were they even polled?

[vernal valve]

Comparing Doom uniques on lower waves to low invo Shadow is crazy, lol. Doom uniques on easy waves aren't actually that rare; even if you're deep delving, like ~50% of the time you'll actually get them on low waves just due to how the math works out. People unironically camp 1-7 for glog, and even though it is like half as fast, it's entirely doable.

[warm epoch]

nope, which is why this kinda feedback is given

and yeah im not a fan of 1-7 being a decent legitimate strategy for doom

[vernal valve]

To be clear, I'm not even saying Doom being designed this way is 'bad', but like... it's just totally different from stuff like entry purps in toa

[true talon]

I know why they did it, because they wanted to create a race first hype around blood torva and radiant.

but they just blocked out everyone who couldnt afford it

since orbs was 5m each on realse

[ashen yarrow]

yama contracts are better after buff but i can see why people dont want to kill 25-50 demons with specific last hit every attempt

[vernal valve]

DT2 orbs were at least novel at the time, and opinion on them only really significantly soured later on, from what I remember

By the time contracts came out, yeah, Jagex didn't have any real excuse, lol

[true talon]

Both those items exist to screw over ironmen basically, entry keys per attempt is never a good thing. just look at how awful giant and mossy keys were...... which they later changed.

[vernal valve]

The fact they felt the need to clarify pre-release "No, these are TOTALLY different from orbs!" Tells you that they knew full well they wouldn't be liked

[tender harness]

Either make contracts a 1 time use to unlock shit and be done or get rid of them

[vernal valve]

It's not like they didn't know, it's just that they seemed to be utterly clueless about the nature of people's issue with them

[shrewd solstice]

DT2 orbs reason for existence is to be a non-alch profit source from bosses

[warm epoch]

different communities maybe but from what i saw it was immediately disliked

[spark folio]

I like the idea of having to grind a singular orb per boss that you then use to perma unlock awakened

[tender harness]

But PoE does similar stuff why doesnt it work in osrs - people ask knowing g the answer

[true talon]

i actually played poe2 and the entry keys to pinnacles bosses was the worst fucking mechanic ever

ESP as SSF

[tender harness]

Your first mistake was playing poo2

[tacit wharf]

2nd was ssf

[true talon]

poe 2 is fun though. im actually hype for the next update in 2 weeks

[chrome lantern]

Orbs are a negligible portion of the profit from dt2 bosses and exist for the sole purpose of actively deterring people from attempting and engaging with challenging content

[chrome lantern]

Orbs were pretty extremely hated by tons of people on release, the only people who liked them were people who resigned themselves to never even attempting the content because the orbs were specifically designed to deter engagement and self-challenge

[true talon]

Correct.

I do not engage with that content, because orb farming is not something i want to do.

just like in POE2 i dont engage with the pinnacle bosses that require annoying entry keys.

[sacred oracle]

I'm not sure it's correct to say that. You can say you believe that's the effect, but that was never the intention.

They weren't specifically designed to deter people from the content. They were designed to be a drop that lower level accounts could get that higher level accounts would pay them for.

That's the stated and explicit purpose.

As to whether that was actually achieved is another thing.

[meager flame]

Yes and the only reason that works is because it’s excluding people and barring entry

The design is made explicitly to reduce engagement with the awakened bosses lol otherwise it wouldn’t accomplish the wealth transfer they were so fixated on

It was never a good idea they just couldn’t see their own nose

Whoever it was chose economy over fun and potentially confused tedium and challenge

Stuff like that is why it’s really bad to be a hard headed game designer you’ll get caught up trying to accomplish some objective like the wealth transfer they repeatedly talked about

And sacrifice the most important things like actually just having fun while playing the video game to do it if you aren’t careful

Gotta be able to admit when it was just not good

[winged mantle]

Endgame boss encounters should never have the focus of "how can lower level accounts make money".

[true talon]

yep

[tulip yoke]

Any speculation on when exactly blood moon rises is gonna drop? Delusionally trying to figure out if I have enough time to max by then

[true talon]

low lvl accounts shouldnt even be doing them lol

like if you approach yama, you better have 2 synpase weps and good supporting gear

[winged mantle]

Less focus on money sink/ wealth transfer - more focus on repeatable fights that feel satisfying to overcome

[true talon]

Wealth transfer is stupid....... this isnt the real world, you dont need to bleed the top players to funnel money to the low lvls. they can make their own money though other means.

[ashen yarrow]

You have blue moon spear and blue moon armor

[meager flame]

Well you do need to do something about it potentially

[winged mantle]

This aint it

[true talon]

I mean the boss shouldnt even be do-able unless you have 2 synpase weps.

[meager flame]

It just might not be redistributing wealth

[true talon]

no you dont?

[meager flame]

It might just be making sure mediocre gear is super accessible

No you do

[true talon]

why?

[true talon]

this is already the case

you can get close to dps of megas with medicore gear

[meager flame]

It would be easy to one day be playing a game where potions and food cost more money than you make outside of doing end game activities and so on

It’s not a problem atm but

It can be a problem

[ashen yarrow]

people already complaining about scythe/shadow costs when farming something that is not end game moneymaker

[meager flame]

You don’t want it to get so top heavy that people can’t ever really join in

[true talon]

if you can afford a shadow or scythe, then you can afford to use the charges.

[meager flame]

The point is more about them costing more than you’re making by using them in the extreme case

[ashen yarrow]

Like some people were complaining brutus should be profitable to farm in max melee with scythe

[meager flame]

Making them not the efficient option

It’s why scythe got nerfed on its cost already

[winged mantle]

Scy was too expensive prior. Same issue with sang

[meager flame]

Personally I think charged weapons like that are kinda dumb tbh

[true talon]

Sang should be buffed (not bias, because i use sang in my scaled raids)

[meager flame]

I see why they want to do it but I’m not sure if it actually improved the game

[winged mantle]

Sang should be like 1 blood, 2 deaths per cast

[meager flame]

Like

[warm epoch]

1 blood 2 body

[meager flame]

A lot of the time it’s about protecting the value of a shilling activity that already lost all relevance to begin with

[true talon]

Am i crazy to want to do 1+2 CM's lol

[winged mantle]

Yes

[meager flame]

So it’s really just an annoying bar to refill and the war was already lost

[ashen yarrow]

need to protect afk zeah rc, anyway here is new pvp minigame that prints death, blood and soul runes

[true talon]

i already do 1+3 full scale though, its like 120k pp/h when i dont lag an die even then its still 90k or so. dpending on where you die.

[winged mantle]

Normal cms with good team mates is more points per hour and less awful

[true talon]

but then i need people!

[winged mantle]

Yeah

The point of a raid

[true talon]

Ya vie done some 3 man cm's in like 27 mins lol

but nothing is more fun than doing solo scaled raids.....

[winged mantle]

3 man 20 min cms is nice

[ember token]

after leagues ends, at least

[meager flame]

I want it to be sooner but my guess is August

It is already delayed from original release though and I’m sure they realize they’re lacking content so maybe they’ll surprise me

[true talon]

I used to hate cox, but this is literally the best, having the most customzation and the ability to push the boundries like scaling to get more rewards.

[meager flame]

Plus there’s only so many months and the way they’re slow rolling blogs

Idk they look like they’re trying to stretch engagement lol

[tulip yoke]

Kinda gotta agree, the date in my mind rn is around mid July for blood moon rises but that might be a little ambitious since leagues and they also have summer sweep up too

[thick beacon]

idk how blood moon rises is delayed they said summer in roadmap after sweep up?

unless summer starts in april or something

[ember token]

summer is the delay

[meager flame]

The previous roadmap before that

[tulip yoke]

When it was first announced it was supposed to be early 2026

[thick beacon]

i see

[ember token]

it was originally gonna be months ago

[tulip yoke]

They’ve been consistent on summer for a while now, I’m just wondering if summer means 2 weeks post leagues or end of August

Since that’s a month and a half difference lol

[true talon]

probably pushed leagues 6 to by time.

then june 15th they will have dmm all stars

[thick beacon]

i feel like its gona be july but idk

[ember token]

i also think it will be july

[true talon]

i think its either late june or early july

[tulip yoke]

True with all stars forgot about that too

[meager flame]

I think usually they’re very intentional

[thick beacon]

only reason i dont think itd be late june is cuz dmm all star

[winged mantle]

Have a feeling raids 4 will be pushed to april next year

[true talon]

this all stars isnt that long

[tulip yoke]

Late June seems extremely unlikely to me, we woulda had a date by now if that were the case I think

[meager flame]

So I expect a season of blogs and sweep up and to not have that overlap with allstars or the league

[winged mantle]

By the pattern of delays

[true talon]

All stars has always been very short

[meager flame]

Yeah but it’s adding up because it’s already almost June

[ember token]

if its gonna be june we'd have already had the date announced by now, or it has to be announced very soon

[winged mantle]

We should have heard more by now

[meager flame]

Like next week is when I expect the sweep up blog

[winged mantle]

The fact we don't know what they want to sweep up is worrying

[tulip yoke]

True Ellie

So sweep up honestly may be July

[meager flame]

And probably 3 or 4 weeks from there is the sweep up

[thick beacon]

in a reddit post they said early june or late may for summer sweep

[winged mantle]

trust me is never a good proposal

[thick beacon]

but it prob will be multi month process

[tulip yoke]

Which would probably put blood moon at late July at absolute earliest in that scenario

With worst case being pushing blood moon to fall 2026 and raids 4 to spring 2027 like someone said earlier

[ember token]

if youre talking about raids nah that's still several months away at least

[thick beacon]

idk i feel like sweep is more in addition to like they might not even release some of those changes till post blood moon imo

[tulip yoke]

That’s possible as well for sure

[meager flame]

I mean the raid blogs probably should continue soon as well

[ember token]

also yeah blood moon is not waiting on the sweepup lol

[tulip yoke]

It depends who is doing what

[winged mantle]

Them timing raids 4 for December is setting themselves up for failure - sailing 2025

[meager flame]

Because they started the conversation and already have ideas now goblin replied to something I said weeks ago

So that blog is probably somewhat imminent as well

[true talon]

prob will be pushed to early 2027

[winged mantle]

I'd imagine so

[thick beacon]

they released sailing on time and that was prob way harder of a project

[ember token]

I don't think raids 4 will be this year regardless, I just don't think lack of blogs when it's still several months away to the current roadmap release date is any sign of a delay

[meager flame]

It also makes a good blog to drop on a down week in like

[winged mantle]

Way too ambitious and under delivered

[tulip yoke]

We don’t even have a good sense of raids 4 rewards yet

[meager flame]

June or July when nothing is going on

[thick beacon]

well ye but they have experince making raids and this is a easier thing for them if they struggle with raids 4 but not sailing id be suprised

[meager flame]

I mean they did struggle with sailing

That was a multi year update lol

[winged mantle]

I sadly have my doubts. Too much consistent jank even for jagex in the past

[thick beacon]

ye but idt anyone expected it to come out 2025

[meager flame]

They probably spent more time on sailing than all raids combined

[thick beacon]

nearly everyone i saw expected later then that

[meager flame]

Tbf a lot of people still think it released too early

[winged mantle]

They did

[thick beacon]

i think it was bound to happen noone knew what new skill should be like. think a lot of it just had to be done through feel

[meager flame]

They definitely went for that quarterly report lol

[winged mantle]

Released it then went on holidays pre much

[meager flame]

Or something like

It wasn’t ready

[winged mantle]

Deadlines

[meager flame]

They said they could tell themselves that forever but honestly this is one of those times they needed more time to cook

[winged mantle]

It's gonna be interesting seeing them raise the price again next year and point to 2 pieces of content

[ember token]

i dont think more dev time for sailing would've fixed much of the issues that it launched with, it just would've resulted in their being more explorable ocean

[meager flame]

It depends

[winged mantle]

Idk they didn't listen to feedback about combat from the beta

[meager flame]

If they actually read the feedback from the betas or if they just had to go through the fire to learn instead

Because people definitely told them about all the stuff they’ve been doing for 6 months in fixes lol

Not sure they would’ve listened without it blowing up in their face though

[winged mantle]

The amount of changes and fixes needed shows it wasn't ready

[thick beacon]

i disagree just cuz i feel like they cant have made those changes without feedback post release imo

[winged mantle]

Just felt like the testing done and feedback given wasn't from fresh eyes doing content from start to finish

[meager flame]

All the sailing combat feedback was basically dropped immediately on them during beta

They just didn’t do anything with it

[winged mantle]

When training the skill it was obvious the flaws and bugs

[thick beacon]

they are now but noone cares really

[meager flame]

It’s like the awakeners orb and contract thing

[winged mantle]

If you played

[meager flame]

They were told but didn’t take it seriously until it blew up

[winged mantle]

Still haven't done anything

They fixed the drop rates of contracts but still can't farm the one you need in a fast manner

[meager flame]

Ya they crumbled immediately and admitted they won’t be doing it again so now they at least took it seriously

[winged mantle]

Killed like 3200 greater demons and gotten 12 of 1 type of contract.

[winged mantle]

I don't believe them

[meager flame]

It’s just too bad they have to like

[winged mantle]

Or they would have fixed it

[meager flame]

Fail spectacularly to realize it shouldn’t have been that way

When people tried to tell them the first time

[winged mantle]

Doing the content right now you can clearly tell. It's like they design the system without trying to accomplish it

[thick beacon]

contracts are fine enough orbs are like 10x worse but both suck

[winged mantle]

Day of release contract farming would have taken 4000-5000 yama kc and even more demon farming to get close to the contracts you need

[thick beacon]

i felt pretty comfortable not even fully practicing on my main cuz contracts are way faster

[winged mantle]

Both need a fix

[thick beacon]

also like these days u do get enough contracts from yama

lot of ppl perception is off release

[winged mantle]

Not really

Do the maths

Esp for the hard contracts

[thick beacon]

u get 3x now with over double rate of dossier

[winged mantle]

You will not have enough of the contracts you need from yama alone

[thick beacon]

itd be very close

its over 50 dossiers from yama

[winged mantle]

Sensory clouding and glyphic attenuation

50 for some is not enough

Some of my friends it took over 200 of one contract

How many hours is that for an iron for contract farming which is faster

[thick beacon]

well orb system is like 50x worse though what do u do if ur out of orbs

its not even worth going for the other stuff

atleast u have a out with contracts

[winged mantle]

The jmods have gotten a weird mindset that recent grinds should take 100's of hours even for a cosmetic (oathplate kit, boat paints)

[winged mantle]

I know, i did it

Just because something is slightly better doesn't give it a pass

[thick beacon]

i got less then 30 orbs from vard/duke maybe we can assume 60 that means id have 15 attempts per boss

what about 200levi attempts i want

etc

[winged mantle]

If you struggle at one of the awkened fights you are screwed

[thick beacon]

its not slightly better its signifcantly better

[winged mantle]

Disagree

[thick beacon]

i would argue contracts are like 5-8x faster then getting orbs

[winged mantle]

I'm literally doing the fights right now

[thick beacon]

and afk to

[winged mantle]

It's a bad system

Lose momentum if you have less contracts then you think you needed

Can't target farm the one you need

Can't trade in spares

[thick beacon]

ye its bad but my point is its a lot better

just in terms of attempts per hour

[winged mantle]

It's a little bit better but doesn't make it good

It just shouldn't exist in current form

[thick beacon]

maybe sweep up they fix hopefully

[winged mantle]

Contract fights should have been a dialogue option each time and you just pay death fee

I hope so

[ashen yarrow]

you can target farm contracts, you just have double drop rate if the sigil is showing

[obsidian venture]

Ass system

Stop making "end-game" content accessible to all

defeats the purpose

what end game content have we even gotten as of late

that wasn't just in a disguise as midgame all along

[winged mantle]

5x for attenuation

[thick beacon]

glyhpic is prob easiest to practice luckily

if u practice hard u will do it on ur first or second p3

but ye that one shouldint be 5x

[winged mantle]

That's the melee prayer one

[thick beacon]

ye

[winged mantle]

There's a reason it's 5x

[thick beacon]

u cant practice p1/p2 but thats not really where ppl will struggle long if they practiced p3

[winged mantle]

They all should be tbf

But again system shouldn't be there in the first place

So 🤷🏼‍♀️

[thick beacon]

i 1 and doned it on iron it was the only one outside of forfiet breath on main it took me 10attempts 2 p3s

p3 was actually easy part of it

but i practice alot on reg yama

like emberlight with brewed downstats/camping mage gear

on p3

[winged mantle]

Some don't have alts

Nor should you need an alt

[meager flame]

they would read this and just do awakeners orbs v3 but 10x more rare

accessibility is not the problem it seems like you're complaining more about difficulty

people should be freely allowed to go get spanked by hard bosses

[obsidian venture]

yeah idc for that

moreso they design bis or almost bis for the avg billy

[meager flame]

i mean thats true but honestly i wouldn't expect it to change

[obsidian venture]

like progression has been fucked since nex

toa is prob the worst offender with the invo shit

[meager flame]

honestly its interesting because i think before nex

people wouldn't consider any of that content super hard end game

[obsidian venture]

Yeah

well tob had a "bad rep"

even to the point j-mods were like ye

now it's the reverse

[meager flame]

jagex is kinda stuck between some people who keep getting better at the game and trying to make content for most of the people who just aren't that far along

[obsidian venture]

Like sure players are getting better on avg over time

[meager flame]

i think tob had an accessibility problem with the wider player base actually like

not in terms of being too hard but sort of

[obsidian venture]

But they should learn to place loot in relation to the difficulty of the boss

[meager flame]

some weird community perception and an unfortunate mix of punishment for failures

like

basically if tob didn't full wipe and reset the raid i bet people would've never talked about it the way they did

[obsidian venture]

I truly don't believe everyone need access to bis without trying to some degree

I'm thankful for tob's wipe mechanic

[meager flame]

idk if i am since its why we got toa

[obsidian venture]

Like slayer bosses in the future will obviously have some bis if they're in the lvl 90s

but once we push to t90/95 shit

are we really gonna make it easy to obtain

[meager flame]

yeah probably i mean

[obsidian venture]

For example, avernic treads could have had a system for delves which allowed you to upgrade boots

[meager flame]

thats what they did for literally everything

[obsidian venture]

not anything crazy even

[meager flame]

we basically have two capes that would've probably been considered too hard for the average person playing

and the entire rest of our bis from start to finish was easy

so like

i'd expect a magic cape from some inferno like activity one day and for everything else to continue as usual

[obsidian venture]

prob

[rare grotto]

Yes but I work 3 jobs and got 7 kids

Poor me

Games used to be harder

🚬

[obsidian venture]

fr

[sacred oracle]

I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I think bis is way, way, way too common from everything it comes from these days

On the other hand, I wonder if maybe a more rs3-like approach to bis might be good for osrs: more untradable bis that you unlock from doing content

I don't know, honestly

At the very least, we should do the first, but the second could be good for more than just bis capes

[rare grotto]

Rs3 is completely buyable though, the only bis u cant buy is zuk cape

Which is a joke compared to any content in osrs

[sacred oracle]

Oh, is it? I just know what I've heard: I've never actually played

People tell me that your bank value doesn't reflect what gear you have because bis is mostly untradable

[rare grotto]

Well u buy gear and u augment it (some sort of perk system) and jt becomes untradeable

The perks are also buyable so

[obsidian venture]

Untradeable bis would be cool. Not something you have to craft per se but something you can earn from hard content. Not asking for random “hard” content that induces kank

Or at least just pace out the drops better from supposedly “endgame” content

[meager flame]

i mean its only more common depending on how many days you want to go back lol

[hard axle]

If only Infernal Cape was actually a sizeable increase for all weapons, not just Scythe even max hit points.

[meager flame]

in some ways i understand the complaints but its not new lol

[hard axle]

Quiver at least gives a sizeable Accuracy increase.

[meager flame]

its actually always been this way

[true talon]

shame quiver is the same

[hard axle]

hey, give me my 28 melee accuracy please

[true talon]

quiver benefits mostly projectile weps not bowfa/blowpipe/throwing weps ect

[meager flame]

generally the game actually gets faster and drops are more forgiving the further you go back

[true talon]

infernal cape should be buffed to give accuracy or something, its basically 4 str over a firecape lol

[hard axle]

indeed

[true talon]

i dont think i got a firecape

Ok so its 3 accuracy and 4 str

[ashen yarrow]

fire cape is +1s in melee att

[true talon]

compared to quiver which is 20 accuracy and 2 str

[hard axle]

melee benefits substantially more from conditionless accuracy increases too

[hasty shard]

they really want to powercreep range acc for some reason

[true talon]

ya seeker arrows about to give 20 more lol

and the new necklace will also give like 5?

[hard axle]

ranged already has super high base accuracy from armor, weapons, gear.

[tender harness]

Make seeker arrows bronze only

[ashen yarrow]

yeah charged/blessed quiver is +10 att and +1 ranged str over avas assembler

[hard axle]

its why oathplate is as strong as it is

and that's before factoring in other factors

like attack speed and shit

[true talon]

248 ranged accuracy in max

[meager flame]

its because they didn't give it more str bonus

but wanted it to be an upgrade

thus +10 extra accuracy with the +1 str

[true talon]

Bow is 262 lol

[meager flame]

the alternative was more range str

[true talon]

That means tbow is going to have 258+ range accuracy an be on par with bowfa....

[hard axle]

but yeah, back to this point, it should be stronger for melee untradeables

[true talon]

with seeker arrows

[hasty shard]

strong believer of bowfa should get a buff at some point

why even add it to fill a meta niche when you just buff literally everything else except it

[true talon]

venator ring and vambs also

[tender harness]

So nerf bowfa

[true talon]

need new range gloves

[meager flame]

tbh theres no reason for them to even be so worried about bowfa

what you're scared of is the blowpipe

[ashen yarrow]

I wonder why everyone wants to buff old weapons to keep them on par with all other newer weapons

[meager flame]

jagex just does a weird limbo where they want things to be confusing for people

when it comes to range

like

ahh yes this quiver buffs xyz range weapons but not this one etc

[hasty shard]

bowfa is the newest one??

whuh

[meager flame]

and the only real danger they face is the blowpipe itself

which is solved by just not being weird and changing the blowpipe

the way they adjusted it previously just kicked the problem down the road and actually solved nothing about why it will end up being insane again

[true talon]

Is blowpipe even relevent anymore

seems like an item you use to kill nylos

[bronze kernel]

Against low defense targets, it is

[hard axle]

Yep, still relevant, which is why people go for it

[true talon]

I guess it is still 15m

which is suprising

[bronze kernel]

It's no longer the "It goes into the blowpipe hole" ranged weapon

[hard axle]

I'm just waiting for the eventual return

Due to how ranged str/acc interacts with 2t weapons

But at least they can manage it now thanks to the ranged def split

[meager flame]

yes its already reclaimed its role as the best non megarare weapon usually if you're ranging

its basically back right where it was before the nerf lmao

[true talon]

With all the new gear yea

and dragon darts

[meager flame]

which is probably a large reason that they're buffing arrows

[true talon]

kinda silly, like bows are already insane broken

were is the buffs to crossbos

bring on the king's barrage XD

[meager flame]

that is something you might see in a project rebalance

because they'll probably come up with some insanely in depth and convoluted solution due to being afraid of ruby bolts

[true talon]

Would making crossbows 4 tick solve their issues?

[meager flame]

instead of just taking them out back like they should've

at any point since osrs released lol

[true talon]

oh btw look at scuffed = stuff. i lagged out an died on the last hand of my 1 hour raid. also pissed thats another ancestral table hit that missed 🙁

why does ancestral share a table wit dinny b and claws? couldnt they just make it
scrolls
mega
ancestral
Dinny+claws
buckler+dhcb

and then for CM's have it give reduced scroll chance

[bronze kernel]

Was the first raid and they just shoved everything into the table. Like the dragon sword and harpoon before they were moved as drops from wyrms

[true talon]

well that was 10+ years ago..... so they can change it XD

[hard axle]

They have and each time they do, what you're expecting is for them to fill the percentages with the items they didn't remove and making it more common

I've practically never seen someone talk about removing items from cox table in good faith because it's always just talking about making everything more common

[true talon]

I dont want items removed, i want tables shuffled to make ancestral on its own table like masori

doesnt make sense for ancestral to be on a table of 1/5

[hard axle]

And that fundamentally changes nothing imo.

If it's the same percentages, you'll just not hit that table or hit the same table in the same ratio.

[true talon]

it changes a lot because then you hit the table and always get ancestral over rolling a 1/5

[hard axle]

But you'll hit the table less to offset it...

It's the same chance per raid

[true talon]

nah youd hit the table the same

rarity wouldnt be changed, youd just have 2 tables to hit over 1 with 5 items

[hard axle]

So you're buffing the table and making it more common, like I said

[true talon]

This would just split the tables apart but both be 1/23 to hit

[hard axle]

either it changes nothing, or it buffs/nerfs it - it's as simple as that

moving ancy to its own table separate from dinhs/claws really won't change the expected kc to completion

[true talon]

I mean i hope CM's have reduced scroll chance, i really need a reason to do them....... but right now 1+3 is just way better 14% unique chance for 1 hour of raiding is pog.

[minor whale]

Yeah I mean

Tables are a Boogeyman for people who don't understand percentages

A 1/5 for a 1/5 is fundamentally not any different from rolling a 1/25

[nocturne solstice]

Is the reason to do them not the unique orn kits? Why do you want a reason to be forced to do something

[minor whale]

Making ancestral their own table that's a 1/3 per piece but the chance of rolling that table is 3x the chance of rolling any single ancestral piece is the exact same as what we have now

[hasty shard]

we need megacommon tables

have cms halve scroll rate but fill that with rolling rdt 100 times

[true talon]

I have dust and kits, now im hunting uniques. i much pref the challenge of challenge modes, but they are not rewarding enough to do.

[nocturne solstice]

So you're doing it for the challenge and you do normals for loot

[true talon]

REduced scrolls would be an incentive to actually do them past

[nocturne solstice]

It feels like wanting your cake and eat it too kinda situation

[true talon]

Im not the only person who wants reduced scrolls like the other 2 raids......

[hasty shard]

challenge of increased stats

[nocturne solstice]

I never assumed you were the only person in a "wants their cake and eat it too" situation

A lot of people that want pvp removed from wildy are also like that imo

[true talon]

I mean i think CM's should be highly incentivized, their baby cm full scale is proof how good chambers is when you do all the rooms.

problem with baby cm full scale is they are not challenging enough with end game gear

[nocturne solstice]

Here's how I'm seeing it.
CoX purples are based off points which come from stuff like damage
CM has all the mobs and more HP so more points
You have scaled regular to have more HP and more points

You have personally removed the incentive to do CMs for more points. The incentive for more loot is to do em faster so now regular is preferred.

All it really boils down to me tho is that people are dry and getting scrolls so they blame scrolls.

[true talon]

scrolls are 60% of your purples

This is basically on rate point per purple

[minor whale]

They could make scrolls more rare overall and they'd have to make uniques as a whole less common to balance it, so we're back where we started

[nocturne solstice]

I dont understand, are you showing me your drop rates and saying they're mine and everyone else's droprates therefore we should nerf scroll drop rates?

[true talon]

no

[nocturne solstice]

If we're talking about on rate you coulda just showed the drop table and that would be that

[true talon]

im using my own as a example

[hasty shard]

the solution is to add more uniques to cox