game-update

[old shadow]

Tob 150s are low key easier than entry mode tob idk

Just without infinite food

Mechanically fucking simple though

[ashen yarrow]

its same in doom. people say there is no reason to do deep delves because uniques drop on 2,3,4. you can keep going further and add more mechanics the fight or you could reset and spam low delves for slightly lower rewards/h

[hard axle]

Dude, the fact you can complete doom

Without ever seeing wave 8

is laughable

[old shadow]

Boots should’ve been an 8 reward

[hard axle]

Yes, the hours are about 50% worse

[obsidian venture]

People saying that are stupid yes but doom is an excellent example of poor placement for the rewards

[hard axle]

But that’s too easy to give out ayak

[old shadow]

Remember when they wanted to put like

[obsidian venture]

Rewards should have been 6+

[old shadow]

Confliction cape behind delve 8

[obsidian venture]

Toa should have scaled to actual invos

But alas

[true talon]

then there be no point in even having 1-5

[obsidian venture]

There would be as it’s a “warm-up”

Goal would be to push deep for rewards

[old shadow]

ToA shouldn’t’ve been too accessible for solo, less experienced, undergeared players

[obsidian venture]

But they also did offer a skip which folks voted no on

[true talon]

its not really.

[old shadow]

????

[ashen yarrow]

1-7 introduce mechanics. i do agree they could add skip to like delve 5 or even straight to 8 after you have done enough deep delves though

[obsidian venture]

It’s very accessible

[austere mulch]

Didn’t some guy make an analysis that showed 1-7 resets was like within 20% TTC as 1-16

[restive siren]

yes

[obsidian venture]

@final frigate do you have the green dhide setup

[true talon]

go make a brand new iron, get him in the most basic gear you can that you think can do TOA and then grab your friend who has never played runescape and tell him to complete a 0 invocation raid and see what happens.

[obsidian venture]

Yeah it’s free

Hope this helps

[frozen lion]

For experienced pvmers most of stuff is free

[obsidian venture]

My iron friend was doing 300s using fucking beans for food

[meager flame]

Yeah until they give us a totally not the same system and we just need to try it first

[obsidian venture]

On a shitty rushed iron

[true talon]

Thats what is wrong with the elitist perspective lol

[old shadow]

What the fuck are beans

[obsidian venture]

It’s not elitist really

[old shadow]

There’s a food called beans??

[true talon]

Yes it is

[obsidian venture]

People are ass and cope too much

Instead of learning

You can bypass skill issue

[old shadow]

It’s not being elitist man it’s just wanting to have difficult content in a game

If everything is handed to you ala ToA then what’s the point?

[obsidian venture]

Then have the experience of looking at content from a different perspective

[austere mulch]

One of my irl friend’s pvm experience in game is trio bandos gwd, giant mole, and one single cox run that I carried him through - been playing on and off since osrs released

To no surprise, he had no issue with 0invo

And didn’t really feel pushed until he did around 100

[true talon]

Its very elitest to only wantin difficult content that you deem that should only be done by you or your friends.....

[meager flame]

Tbf it is people just struggle to understand their own place in the game

[austere mulch]

That’s got to be pretty close to your analogy

[obsidian venture]

No one is saying that

[meager flame]

Like

[obsidian venture]

Yes

[ashen yarrow]

300 invo can be done pretty easily at weak gear if you know some basic knowledge of the raid and avoid major mistakes. If you have moons sets completed you can just bring all 3 sets and that is op gear for every combat style for toa

[old shadow]

No it is not elitist to want group content to be completed by groups lol

[meager flame]

I think pnm is easy

[obsidian venture]

Talking with two cutie pies rn in chat and it shows

[meager flame]

Pnm is very hard by osrs standards for most players

So like

[obsidian venture]

Yes

[meager flame]

Idk it’s kind of hard to say they don’t make enough challenging content for most players

When they do for like 95% of them

[austere mulch]

It’s not elitist to say that end game content should be designed for players with end game experience, with gear being able to supplement that

[obsidian venture]

This isn’t accessible at all apparently

[frozen lion]

And as before.. no one forces you to do it solo, can do it group only..

[minor whale]

Everything in game is hard for someone who doesn't know what the game is
That doesn't mean people who actually play can't have an opinion that ToA is WAY too easy at the low end and the gear requirements are basically non existent.
Give someone an intro to the 3 raids and ToA is by far the easiest to complete and requires very little mechanical skill to complete

[minor whale]

What's forcing you to not do solos?

[meager flame]

Yeah the thing is that depending on your skill level you can expand that out to everything

[true talon]

are they an ironman? what kind of gear was they using, also 0 invo is not a bench mark neither is 150. i consider those something you can do but they are not rewarding, however they do allow you to do the content which is the point.

[true talon]

they have 626 kc......

[meager flame]

People could say the inferno is way too easy and accessible because if they’re good enough they can 1 item it with an empty inventory

Now nobody does that because most people aren’t on that level

[obsidian venture]

Now they do, this is an old screenshot

[austere mulch]

No, not an Ironman. Tent whip, rcb, and trident

Ended up getting him a fang when he started 100s

[frozen lion]

Mechanics aimed for group which are bypassed by ridiculous not intended actions which artificially increase difficulty when done solo?

[meager flame]

But it could be said by someone

[austere mulch]

It was pre-moons, so he used void

[old shadow]

Damn, it’s almost as if it was designed for groups and intended for groups

[true talon]

pnm is a good boss, just needs better loot.

[frozen lion]

You wanted answer, you have it.

[old shadow]

And it’s such a “please jagex make it easier for me” one

[frozen lion]

And I ask again, why not just do group content with group and let people solo who want to?

[old shadow]

Because that’s not what the content is designed for

Group content is designed for groups

[frozen lion]

And it hurts you how?

[obsidian venture]

People do

[old shadow]

Because i make money off merching

[minor whale]

The thing making you unable to solo boils down to "I am not mechanically skilled enough to"

That's fine!
I also can't do solo ToB.
Unlike you, I'm not going to beg Jagex to make it easy for me to do it.

[obsidian venture]

So what’s your point

[old shadow]

And there’s currently a mega rare that’s cheap as fuck

[true talon]

You dont design bosses to cater to one group, you design bosses to have ways to bypass for each type.

[old shadow]

And better than every single weapon in the game

[obsidian venture]

People that want to solo, solo. People that want to play with a group, play with a group

[old shadow]

Other than t bow

[minor whale]

There's ways to bypass for solo ToB

[old shadow]

Because of how easy and accessible toa is

[true talon]

you design bosses to have a group mechanic that a solo player can solve

[minor whale]

Right now

[obsidian venture]

We are simply saying solos shouldn’t scale down is all

[old shadow]

So yes, it does affect me

[minor whale]

It has mechanics solo players can solve

[obsidian venture]

Because it exemplifies skill + knowledge of learning the raid

[old shadow]

It probably affects me more than anybody talking in this chat right now lmao

[frozen lion]

Not making accessible balanced solo content just so someone can merch? Ok

[obsidian venture]

Irrelevant

[meager flame]

I guess the real point though is that jagex is going to make content for people playing the game like

[true talon]

If scythe fell to 300m again the TOB defenders would be up in arms crying XD

[obsidian venture]

They solved that by adding content

[meager flame]

They’re only gonna go so far up the skill levels

[obsidian venture]

Which was very apparent

Lack of content means lack of use

[frozen lion]

Remember oda after seeing his bank go from maybe 500b to 400b

[obsidian venture]

• At the time fang was viable on slash

Very concerning reasons

[restive sapphire]

they use a 9 year old piece of content as the ceiling still

[obsidian venture]

Instead of the most recent one

[true talon]

how is this any different than scythe being viable on crush?

[frozen lion]

Wtf moderating Jagex's pvp star

[obsidian venture]

What

[true talon]

should scythe be allowed to destory all crush progression?

[obsidian venture]

I don’t believe it should

But what does that have to do with anything atm

[true talon]

Well fang was creeping into slash despite being stab

[obsidian venture]

Ok

[true talon]

scythe does the samething

[obsidian venture]

Right but fang has the passive apply for slash

It was cheaper and similar dps

To a mega

[old shadow]

Why does group content have to be accessible for solo players

[austere mulch]

Vasa teleport in solo is effectively the same as sote ball in solo, for the record

[old shadow]

Seventh time asking

I still don’t have an answer

[obsidian venture]

It was concerning for Jagex and they addressed it multiple times

[true talon]

yep thats a mechanic i like as well, i just bring a pneck

[austere mulch]

You can’t “solve” it in the way that it’s intended

Because you’re solo

[frozen lion]

Because it doesn't have to be made stricte group, and let players enjoy content in peace of solitude

[austere mulch]

And that’s perfectly fine

[true talon]

Olm teleports is another 1 that is solvable solo by just putting it on the floor

[old shadow]

Fortunately it’s not strictly made for groups

[meager flame]

I mean they can see how good most players are

[true talon]

they can design group bosses with solo solves, but whoever did TOA didnt care.

[old shadow]

All the raids including HMT has been soloed

[true talon]

TOA was clearly rushed and done extremely poorly.

[frozen lion]

It's possible to enter solo, but it is not balanced about playing solo

[austere mulch]

Yeah, I’m saying that’s different in that you can still solve olm teleport in the intended way

[ashen yarrow]

scythe isnt even that strong crush weapon. the other crush weapons just are weak and there are not many enemies that are weak to crush, the ones that are weak to crush have pretty much 0 crush defence making scythe actually accurate on them

[meager flame]

They know almost all of them never even get that far lol

It is what it is

[austere mulch]

Vasa tele you just tank like you do sote ball (though now most people exit the room to skip)

[frozen lion]

Even if it was somehow 10% harder than group, people would still do it because of no trouble to find people

[austere mulch]

Also friendly reminder that there are more crush-weak bosses than stab-weak

[ashen yarrow]

Like if scythe has +70 crush instead of the useless +70 stab then scythe would be broken as crush weapon too

[austere mulch]

🤷🏽‍♂️

[old shadow]

Wait but i thought

Your issue was tob was that you had trouble finding people?

[obsidian venture]

LMAOOO

[old shadow]

Isn’t that what started this entire conversation

[hard axle]

Yes, there is, it’s called a built in time sink, so that the drop rate isn’t 1/50k so that it is more than 3 hours to get.

Is there a reason to have bosses before Olm and Verzik? Phases before enrage portion?

[obsidian venture]

bro I’m actually weak

There’s no way

LMAOAOA

[meager flame]

But yeah idk why people want only group or only solo

[frozen lion]

I only said that it would be cool if there was better system in game than just finding people in official world or clan chat

[true talon]

I want group that scales to solo

[obsidian venture]

No one wants that

[meager flame]

all of the actual successful examples are pretty much both

[old shadow]

No that’s definitely not what started this conversation

[obsidian venture]

We want raids scaled to group, but can be done solo

[austere mulch]

Bruh imagine you could get an elder maul from tekton resets 💀

[meager flame]

It just requires jagex to put in work

[true talon]

im very open to like everyone being able to enjoy content.

I dont like gate keep barriers like awakened orbs

[meager flame]

Like

[true talon]

or forced to find people

[frozen lion]

Just like we say we want group raids that scale to solo as well

Now what

[hard axle]

Which we are fine with if they want to add that, but most of us believe it will not change much.

Happy to be wrong about this, but we’ve seen so many excuses made and nothing is going to beat Discord imo.

[obsidian venture]

And where we disagree

[austere mulch]

Everyone should have content they enjoy but all content shouldn’t be accessible to everyone at the same part of their journey as a player

Ezpz

[old shadow]

The thing is

[obsidian venture]

Due to skill expression

As a famous j mod once said: “Content doesn’t need to be accessible to everyone.”

[meager flame]

Cox is good because it’s either solvable in a positive way or something you can just live with regardless of group size

[old shadow]

Jagex is designing group content

[frozen lion]

We do, and the final decision will go for Jagex, and like you said before, very possible it will keep being ToB style

[meager flame]

Whoever did all of that did an excellent job

[old shadow]

If it was accessible to solo, they’d make another toa

Do you know how bad toa actually was on the long term health of the game

[obsidian venture]

Think mod Elena? Could be mistaken

[meager flame]

The release tob and toa though just weren’t really that complete

[obsidian venture]

Still ass

[austere mulch]

Because at what point do you draw the line

“Oh you want to gatekeep end game content to end game players when it should be accessible to anyone who wants to try it”

Ok, well toa isn’t accessible to Timmy two shoes with 430 total who just competed dragon slayer for the first time

[old shadow]

Bro they’re never fixing what they released it’s over

Lmao

[austere mulch]

Though it’s not far off 🤣

[meager flame]

People really need to ask more from jagex

But get bogged down arguing about other stuff

[frozen lion]

The issue is some mechanics are made that no matter how much gear stats will progress, some of them are absolute and won't change how it is dealt with.

[noble vortex]

Not sure if I’m 100% understanding what’s going on but content made for groups shouldn’t be easier just cause we choose to solo imo. It’s a self imposed difficulty boost.

[obsidian venture]

YOOOO

[frozen lion]

Just like over max hp balls on tob

[obsidian venture]

Thank you LMAOAO

[minor whale]

Senny my beloved

[frozen lion]

Unless it is ToA style

[meager flame]

Yes this is why toa sucks but cox good

[ashen yarrow]

the thing is raid scaling doesnt mean linear scaling. you can make it hard to solo while only adding +50-80% stats per extra player to make it worth while to do in groups, not to mention some mechanics can be dealt with a lot faster/easier in groups

[obsidian venture]

I’m actually dead

Holy W

[frozen lion]

And it's not about being easier, but balanced

[old shadow]

No

It’s about being easier

[minor whale]

(he wants it easier)

[old shadow]

Just say it with your chest

[obsidian venture]

Just scream it

[meager flame]

The danger in how most people talk about it is that they kinda word it like

Tob is perfect

[frozen lion]

If a boss has 1200hp scaled to 3 people and 400hp scaled to 1 person, is it making any difference when mechanics are literally same?

[hard axle]

I don’t like hp inflation as a means of difficulty

Toa

[meager flame]

When it’s not just it has the opposite issue

Tob is why we got toa

[hard axle]

Yes actually

Yama proved this

Less of an enrage phase

[minor whale]

You asked for mechanics to be removed as well

[frozen lion]

On percentage you deal same amount of health

[hard axle]

3 people means 3 spec bars

[frozen lion]

It is making even easier on group

So?

[meager flame]

In both cases it was just jagex compromising their design to chase a particular group of players

[ashen yarrow]

Hp/extra spawns is realistically the only way to scale things to match player amount unless you want 8 man to complete it in 5minutes while duo takes 30min

[meager flame]

Where with cox they just kinda stepped up and made the raid for everyone beyond a reasonable threshold and gave you a lot to work with

The middle road so far has proven to work the best for raids

[ashen yarrow]

options are static drop rate/points regardless of player amount or scaling loot and durability with player amount

[hard axle]

I like the freedom behind cox instead of the forced solution or 50+ damage

Toa did the worst of this

Solve this puzzle or die

[south void]

All of you have been circling the same conversation since 7am. What's crazier, is I've just finished reading all of it 🤣

[ashen yarrow]

like doing a mass raid being same as mass corp, most players wouldnt like that

[hard axle]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-hampter-hampter-hamster-meme-sad-hamster-meme-meme-gif-9084875955522359789

[austere mulch]

Hmt bloat 💀

[hard axle]

[meager flame]

Ya the toa thing is a symptom of whoever designs all bosses now

Their solution to everything is you just dying lol

[obsidian venture]

It’s a good time killer at work

[minor whale]

Yup
I'm meal prepping and it's a great time killer

[old shadow]

But again this is why I don’t like that jagex adjust late game content to be designed for midgame players

I really don’t care if people take that as elitist

[south void]

I just cooked, fixed, and ate my lunch with snacks in the time it took to read it all from 7am 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[old shadow]

ToA should’ve been harder and less accessible

[meager flame]

They kinda have to

Otherwise you wouldn’t get the content to begin with

It’s a hard truth

[south void]

One thing everyone agreed on, they can't agree on anything 👍

[old shadow]

I think that raids should be designed to be completed in a group, with difficulty

[ashen yarrow]

I dont really agree with this, i do agree the unique loot should be less accessible though

[meager flame]

That’s why it’ll always be about the hard mode or extra challenge for the highest end

[old shadow]

You know

[meager flame]

They can’t justify spending time on that few players otherwise

[old shadow]

I think jagex should just start with “mini raids” (like that sailing mermaid content thing they did in that one game jam)

[austere mulch]

Cox gets so much praise for its scaling but people just love to ignore that cox also want designed to be solo’d

[old shadow]

That are accessible and soloable and midgame

[austere mulch]

Players just figured out how to solo it

[old shadow]

While keeping raids around tob difficulty

It’s too late for that now though

[meager flame]

I think a lot of the really insane examples like solo olm that manage to have enough depth for everyone are pure luck from jagex

[austere mulch]

If cox was intentionally designed to be solod, it’d probably suck too. Especially considering gear at the time was zulrah + barrows

[ashen yarrow]

I like how they have introduction version of toa/tob but toa for some reason you can get loot even with entry difficulty

[old shadow]

To be fair

Blowpipe

[meager flame]

I mean it sort of is designed like that

[obsidian venture]

And you wouldn’t get that depth if it was made for solo

[old shadow]

Do we not remember pre nerf blowpipe

[hard axle]

Exactly. Let the players figure it out.

If I have to balance on accessibility, the baseline difficulty on release should be higher and then they can trickle down patches to make it “easier”.

For example, that’s what they did to remove solo tob’s 30 minute tick eating by removing a crab.

[obsidian venture]

Ty for coming to my ted talk

[old shadow]

I remember pre nerf blowpipe

[meager flame]

Solo olm has mechanics built around making it work with a single player intentionally

[frozen lion]

CoX can at least be soloed without feel of wasting time compared to group gameplay

[hard axle]

Forced solo-ability is just bad cuz it means there’s no creativity

[meager flame]

Because the designer wasn’t lazy

He asked how does this work if there’s one guy left and changed stuff

[austere mulch]

The design wasn’t for solo, it was for if everyone else in the room dies

[meager flame]

You can see it with the portals

[austere mulch]

Which they can rejoin

[south void]

I think it's a good thing all raids give choices to how people have fun playing differently. I don't expect everyone to like every raid made. Personally I enjoy Cox, absolutely hate TOA (I went 225 solo 410's for my first purple and it was a dam ring), and recently this year started normal mode tobbing with the clannies and feel once you know how to Tob, it's actually easier than the other two, aside from finding partners who also know the content.

[ashen yarrow]

Like it is technically possible to pull shadow from 0 invo toa

[austere mulch]

The raid wasn’t designed to be entered solo*

[meager flame]

If it was toa they would’ve just had portals not spawn

[austere mulch]

But you’re right in that the result was a happy accident lol

[frozen lion]

Isn't it 150+

[meager flame]

But he went the extra mile

[frozen lion]

ONLY?

[ashen yarrow]

0-149 have drastically reduced rate but not 0 chance

[south void]

One of my clannies LandofLee got a TOA pet on 5kc doing 0s.....

[old shadow]

Okay this was a fun conversation

ggs all

[minor whale]

There's a lot of posts of 0 invo shadows

[old shadow]

TeamGatekeepers on top

[obsidian venture]

[ashen yarrow]

like imagine people farming entry mode tob for scythes

[old shadow]

That’s what they want

They just won’t say it

Because they like the ToA design

[meager flame]

Tbf they don’t make a raid difficulty that easy anywhere that has a remotely reasonable chance at loot lol

[old shadow]

And 150 invo ToA IS entry tob

[frozen lion]

I think that's more of an iron thing, I already have scythe with only 1 solo entry done for quest

[south void]

My wife asked why I've been reading a bunch of RuneScape nerds talk about RuneScape, I told her the same reason she is reading xray technician nerds talk about the proper methods to xray.

[meager flame]

No it’s like 10x harder than entry mode tob lmao

[old shadow]

Tbh idk

[meager flame]

And they’re both easy

[old shadow]

Im a 1 def so im biased

But entry nylo kinda shits on me

Solo

150 toa is borderline afk

[meager flame]

Entry mode tob is a dude that’s level 70 questing not being too scared to try

Toa is quite easy too but not that easy for that kind of player

[frozen lion]

Still while it doesn't affect anything on Jagex action this convo definitely motivated me to find better clan or I won't progress in the future at all

And it looks like best way to actually get into group raids

[austere mulch]

Tons of really great casual clans out there that you can find raid partners in too

[ashen yarrow]

well that is true, very hard to get into new/harder content teams without having someone you know to do it with. Assuming you dont already have kc or main with kc showing you know the content

[frozen lion]

Ye I always think Ill get in this kind of situation.. 😅 :

[obsidian venture]

Happens far less than you think

Idk just communicate you want to learn or host a party and take others

And or find a different cc if you can’t do the above steps

And personally I did the hosting part and raided with learners

So the “harder” way as we wiped a lot

It was never an issue to find folks

[old shadow]

Good yeah

Honestly man just find any clan

[meager flame]

Tbh the real reason osrs struggles with group content is expectation

[old shadow]

Most clans have tobbers

Just when somebody asks for a group, ask if they’re willing to take learners

Then hop in

[ashen yarrow]

yes, that still requires going into a community and usually takes a while of interacting with others to get the trust to be able to raid with them. there are certainly some raid/group content specific discords/clans where you can get into teams easier if you meet some bare minimum requirements

[meager flame]

Like when you play wow all relevant content is basically 5 or 20 man at this point

[old shadow]

It’s not hard to get into content if you just ask

“Are you okay with learners?”

[meager flame]

So you build an entire network join a guild and literally EVERYONE does that because it’s the only way to play the game

[minor whale]

Also don't gotta lock in to an actual clan, there's a LOT of places people group up for content over Discord and stuff

[old shadow]

Most will say yes unless they’re doing high efficiency at the time or HMT/CMs

[meager flame]

Osrs though is a mostly solo game

So most people expect to continue playing that way

And jagex can’t really ignore them

[old shadow]

Which is also why it’s great that some content is designed for groups in mind

Because it gives people that opportunity to be like

Damn i actually need to engage with others

[velvet orchid]

Forced team content is the best content

We need more

Game is supposed to be an mmo

[meager flame]

I think that’s probably the worst argument to make lol

[south void]

I'll just continue to ignore team based content until we decide to do bingo

[frozen lion]

Guild Wars is also mmo, yet you can just use companions instead of other players in group

Only pvp is pretty much multiplayer only

[meager flame]

Most people won’t agree on what the best content is and don’t care about the genre they just like whatever they like about the game

[frozen lion]

Yeah and leaving that solo sphere and forming manual groups feels very overwhelming

[old shadow]

It is healthy for the game to have a variety of different types of content

Group being included

[meager flame]

I mean that’s not very surprising for a lot of people just because when it comes down to it this game is almost entirely solo with hints of interacting with other people maybe if you want to

[south void]

Shield of Arrav 🤣

[meager flame]

They solved for a community that in large part won’t be a fan of forced teams

[south void]

Shield of Arrav is trauma inducing for us introverts, how dare you make me....oh wait I paid for another account and just did that quest with alt nvm.

[frozen lion]

Failing expectation and making it worse for others just sucks

[meager flame]

It does that’s why in games like wow there’s so much like

[frozen lion]

Like I have feeling I would prefer to learn CoX solo before trying any involvements with other players

[meager flame]

Pressure to perform maybe is a good way to put it

[obsidian venture]

Idk man if you’re learning folks with understand

Overthinking it for 0

[meager flame]

Some people just don’t like it but in that game they’re weeded out immediately

Since you can’t really play without it

[ashen yarrow]

i have made 3 accounts just to help me complete SoA, always forget to take notes of them so they get lost

[velvet orchid]

Solo cox is amazing but no cap 50x harder then teams and the skills dont translate

Solo olm is a bitch to learn but so satisfying once you get it down

[meager flame]

The skills directly translate to teams tbf if you understand what you’re doing

Since you’ll immediately understand why and when things work

[south void]

I learned solo olm in 5 raids, whereas it took me 3 months for 150 toa solo, and then 2 months for Tob 3/4/5 man

[velvet orchid]

Everyone who solos i take to teams is clueless but teams are just so easy in comparison they dont struggle at all

[south void]

Each person is different, everyone gets the game mechanics to click at different rates for each raid.

[obsidian venture]

Sure

[velvet orchid]

I feel likr you didnt learn solo cox

You got kcs at solo cox

[obsidian venture]

But saying folks will criticize folks for learning means you probably haven’t interacted with many

[velvet orchid]

4 to 1 is a bit to wrap your head around but if you did it then gigachad

[obsidian venture]

Like many people take learners knowing they aren’t good ofc

[meager flame]

I don’t interact with enough different clans to know if osrs is like this but in wow

[south void]

I teach cox to all our clannies and have for going on 4 years now. I always get learners branching off after 8-10 raids.

[meager flame]

There are like these guilds that think they’re good even though they suck despite trying

And those are the toxic ones

[south void]

Used to teach in WDR up until the ayak came out

[velvet orchid]

The only raid that sucks to teach is toa because of invocations

[south void]

Solo is just finding the easiest room layout and falling asleep through it to olm.

[velvet orchid]

You have to hurt your own purple chance a lot compared to just a slower raid

[meager flame]

I’d always get these like horror stories or people that expected me to like be mean to them when they finally climbed out of the mud

[velvet orchid]

Luckily toa is easy to learn solo

[meager flame]

And then they found out most good players are actually nice to them lol

[velvet orchid]

Yeah thats pretty similar here most people are very friendly

[meager flame]

Because it’s hard to do well and stay with a good team if everyone is constantly battling each other instead

[south void]

Yea I can agree teaching toa is "please go run some 0s, then 150s, then I'll go into a 150 with you and explain anything you didn't understand"

[meager flame]

And they probably learned that lesson to get that far

[velvet orchid]

The only thing thats frustrating is when someone refuses to so something like they dont trust the teacherb

Like letting a learner at tob bring a nox hally is such a no go for me

Makes learning p2 harder for the learner plus they will rag some rooms like sote by mistake

[south void]

Worst time I've ever had was teaching normal Tob to someone who refused to pickup the dawnbringer to spec verzik shield 🫩

[velvet orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/really-are-you-kidding-me-got-to-be-kidding-youre-kidding-me-seriously-gif-6521278384595665157

[obsidian venture]

Toa is absolutely the most ass to teach

Go in solo till a 150

[south void]

Nox hally side step p2 is cheese 🧀, removes scythe/whip walk. Crazy that got added ngl.

[obsidian venture]

Then learn from someone

Hally p2 is not ideal

When learned ok

But learners perma zap each other with box

[velvet orchid]

Yeah but its actually harder to do then normal walk

It just sounds easier

Its 2 clicks per vs 1 click

[obsidian venture]

We usually never rec hally

[velvet orchid]

Plus ur on 5 tick vs 4 tick which means ur losing extra dps but mostly just makes timing harder to click in ur head

[obsidian venture]

It’s not that useful overall but on someone that’s not losing ticks, it has value in that sense

[south void]

Lmao, if they aren't standing on the proper two tiles doing the square dance when lightning ball is hitting. We had the same issue until I had everyone mark the lightning ball tiles nearest verzik and have them step on those tiles during ball.

[obsidian venture]

Objectively should just stick to tent/fang

For the longest part

[velvet orchid]

I mean its good for non learners no scythe

[obsidian venture]

Can add nox when learned but it’s minor

[velvet orchid]

Like on my rune pure im waiting for it to grind scythe

[obsidian venture]

Not really

It’s just ok

[velvet orchid]

But I won't lose ticks on p2

[obsidian venture]

Yeah sure if you aren’t

But learners always are

And it makes it strictly worse

[velvet orchid]

Yup on top of being harder

It was so bad after raids 5 because nox was 2 tick

[south void]

Sent 24 tries with whips/scythes no completions, had everyone switch to 2h setups with nox hally and void and started getting completions. Then we switched them back once they understood the mechanics happening because they were surviving longer.

[obsidian venture]

“And just for perspective, Nox is such a little improvement on whip (in some setups, not even), that youre saving about a whopping 1 tick per player (over tent) on p2 if you have an avernic, and as high as 5 ticks per player if you have a dragon defender and really bad gear, including purple and lighting damage - edit also assuming everyone has relatively the same gear. Time save per p2 will drop dramatically as soon as someone has a scythe because they’ll be chunking away at the hp a lot faster

This means if you miss a single hit (not just a tick) due to fumbling with Nox during p2, you lost close to 5 raids worth of time save”

[velvet orchid]

Leagues 5*

[south void]

Not saying it's ideal, just that it worked for our groups.

[velvet orchid]

Would have been a much faster time sending them to the p2 sim or doing an entry with bronze scim

[south void]

They tried sim in between runs

[velvet orchid]

But when I take learners I tell them to just try p2 do your best you will die were planning on you dieinh

[obsidian venture]

The pipeline of league raiders doing raids in the main game rn is happening

And is ass per usual

[true talon]

ye that makes sense, on leagues xarpus was wiping us in HM tob XD

[obsidian venture]

Yeah

[velvet orchid]

Im so torn about it lol

Because all they learn is bad habits but they are willing to try which is good

[obsidian venture]

Ye

[velvet orchid]

Long as they listen to the teacher its fine though

[true talon]

Thats why we have solo raids 🙂

[south void]

Where's my flaskkkkkkkkk 🤣

[obsidian venture]

😭😭😭

Where’s my pact heals???

[south void]

You mean food is eaten?????

Ffffff

[obsidian venture]

wtf

There’s folks going into normal raids, no mentor and sending

And it’s tragic

[ashen yarrow]

why can i not afk 700 invo warden p3

[south void]

Hey at least it opens the doors to getting their foot into it

[obsidian venture]

Yes and for that it’s cool

[south void]

I've had clannies not want to run a 0 toa because they were scared of messing up and I'm like....that's how you learn though

[meager flame]

Tbh I’m surprised jagex hasn’t figured out how to level up their hard mode/cm game yet

Like you would think they would just plan that update for like a year or two after a raid releases

And let the content grow with the players

[old shadow]

Fine if toa

[south void]

Everyone was crapping over Tob normals for months and then realized its just a 100k death fee so may as well keep sending it vs. expert toas. 5x normal tobs=1 expert toa death fee. That was my seller haha

[old shadow]

But does it count as normal raids

I kinda just self taught toa

No guides / mentors just fuck it we ball

[meager flame]

Same but that’s because toa is excellent at presenting information

[old shadow]

Yeah it’s very intuitive

[meager flame]

Like I was clearing toa the second the update went live lol

Like the only content in toa I really had to learn was like

Really high end akkha

I still think that’s probably the scariest boss in the game

[old shadow]

Honestly you can get away with that with cox too

Except maybe olm

[meager flame]

At least before the most recent changes

[ashen yarrow]

runs cox blind, what am i supposed to do with these stone statues

[old shadow]

Since first time olm is kind of fucking hilarious

[meager flame]

It’s just interesting that the mechanics are so good visually that I just immediately skipped to doing the right thing instead of like

[obsidian venture]

Meant for tob/cox

[meager flame]

Having to find an explanation and recognize what to do with time

[obsidian venture]

Just actual griefing

[meager flame]

Those akkha transitions with everything turned on being an exception tho

That actually took some time for me to not either just die or take damage at first

[hard axle]

I like when bosses are balanced around mechanics that reward you with faster kill times

rather than just nuking you for doing it wrong

[meager flame]

Idk if that’s even a good boss design though it’s just kind of visually overwhelming while you try to adjust your movement to account for infinite orbs

Although I guess I could’ve just learned the stair thing instead in most invo setups

Also I agree that the solution to everything being to drop a bomb on the player is kind of played out

They need to remove things like the blood fury from the game so they can go back to mistakes costing you long term

Instead of needing to kill you on the spot because it’s the only way to make you fail

[austere mulch]

Give rancour 2 more str bonus and you accomplish that same thing basically

People would still use fury obviously but way less

[meager flame]

Yeah but if they changed boss design back to mistakes adding up over time

Blood fury would basically immediately return

Because it would hard counter the boss design of losing over time to built up mistakes

It’s really a type of design they never should’ve messed with lol

[tacit pendant]

Fero gloves 2 will be that 2 str surely

[true talon]

think next upgrade will be gloves to be tribrid

[minor whale]

No shot

They just added the single biggest mage dps upgrade since Shadow in the glove slot

Boot tribrid was just so we'd go back to the normal amount of switches

[true talon]

ya it will be combined with fero gloves, vambs to create giga gloves

[obsidian venture]

They won’t do that just yet

Give it a few years

Or never really

[true talon]

i know not yet but its coming

then prob rings/neck

[obsidian venture]

I see an upgrade to feros itself tho

[minor whale]

Feros upgrade probably first from raid
Maybe a situational fero upgrade

[true talon]

They will introduce new slots to balance out the switches

they can only milk upgrade slots for so lonf

[hard axle]

Me and TM have been saying this for ages. It’s just a slightly better dynamic over Torture vs BF, but there’s still such a small gap in exchange for such a big heal creep.

[hard axle]

Incorrect, they can upgrade freely and commonly as long as they do the Masori/Tread system where the drop is useable immediately, but previous BIS makes it even stronger.

Only people who don’t like it are folks wanting to skip past grinds

[true talon]

eventually it becomes to much lol

[hard axle]

combine bludgeon and mace to inquisitor bludgeon

[thick beacon]

I agree with you tassili but like moment they stopped we ended with oath/eye luckily ppl still do zulrah for bp/kraken for tent still

feel like that line exists but we are far from it

[ashen yarrow]

boots are closest to getting extremely annoying but at least next boots upgrade wont come for years

like i dont think they can really add another upgrade to combine with max treads

[thick beacon]

im more interested in how they will do armors i feel like that can get crazy

like for new range gear ur gona need masori arma and new raids x gear?

[analog crow]

A lot of old bosses are bad. No reason to bend over backwards to keep them relevant

[thick beacon]

do u require torva for next melee str bonus gear?

[ashen yarrow]

raids 4 item that combines torva, inquisitor and oathplate into 1 armor

[meager flame]

i dont even really understand why people act like stuff doing that is too much lol

it has like

zero practical impact on playing the game

they honestly can just upgrade everything until the end of time

[thick beacon]

its prob safer option

[true talon]

This might of been the most willed into existence death i ever seen.
"46 hp, his max is 41 ill be ok before i brew, burns me a 5 into a 41 jad hit" lmao

[meager flame]

its not like you log on and are like trying to simulate yourself upgrading or breaking down your gear constantly

you just equip the new best and move on

[thick beacon]

i think sometimes its good to just creep stuff though like i think sang was to far gone to ever be part of progression for ppl same goes for harm imo

[meager flame]

also thats why you dont fuck around with olm lol

[thick beacon]

bruh olm jads are so bad

[meager flame]

just brew and you pretty much cant die

[true talon]

it was funny as fuck because i was calculating in my head of the outcome of that happening an it did

[thick beacon]

u cant if it double jads u cant brew every 15 seconds

45 45

maybe can go nex route and atleast guarntee 2 autos of same style

[meager flame]

or you could just stop trying to play the overload perfectly and heal yourself lol

[true talon]

ya it was just stupid tbh lol

but odds of a jad max of 41 + burn on same tick was basically impossible but it wasnt 0 just goes to show.

[meager flame]

granted you can try to brew on 15s when it makes sense but if you can think of any way of dying

just press yellow

[austere mulch]

id be really surprised if we get another tribrid bis gear slot, let alone so soon after treads

[austere mulch]

do you need dust or you just doing cms for the love of the game

[true talon]

I am running cm's because i like to. the non CM full scale layout is annoying with my gear, because vanguard's suck.

1+3 full scale was 117k points in 1 hour, so i might start doing those. olm was just annoying as fuck lol.

[austere mulch]

1+3 doesnt sound ideal, but i was gonna say 1+2 full is very good

[austere mulch]

in max gear, I get like 130-135k pph depending how much attention i want to give

[true talon]

1+2 is same as 1+3 just the rooms have 25% less hp and olm has 25% less hand/head health.

i think 1 +2 was like 87k points?

[austere mulch]

87-91 depending if you cap ice/theiv ye

mix and match when I cap or dont cap based on vibes

[true talon]

Ya full scale raids are great

im slow, because im not good at chambers, i just do it to complete it an not die XD

[austere mulch]

are you getting 2nd tele everytime in vasa at 4? I usually kill just before or just after second crystal, but before second tele

[true talon]

i get few teleports, but if i was good like did the skip in the start and prob brought a stab wep over just scything the crystals

but i pneck first one an then just drink 1 sip of brew for all others

[austere mulch]

ye i skip the first -> 2tbow 1vw (2if feeling lazy)-> scythe crystal -> tbow + second vw -> ignore second crystal

[meager flame]

you should learn to portal skip tbh its pretty easy

[austere mulch]

found that even when taking claws + stab, wasnt killing both crystals as often as id liked

if i get a second tele tho, i skip it also

u can do 3 tbow hits off crystal while pathing to exit, then leave and reenter

[true talon]

yea i should lmao. i just need to turn off filtered game chat to see when the gaurdians die

[austere mulch]

be super lazy and use 4t metronome if you click to enter the big door to enter raid lobby on 2, then the flinch tick for portal skip is 4 (same as entry tick for instance)

not always paying attention enough to spamclick out of guards, so ill recline and do that most times

[true talon]

But ya i loved scaled raids, might even try 1+6

[hard axle]

Yes. This is a lot easier than getting Full Torva because dupes can be broken down like Armadyl for Masori, so you reduce the expected hours in half right off the bat. Tass bitches about Ancestral all the time, but if they added Ancestral 2.0 in Raids 4 that consumed Ancestral, he would be happy to get dupes because it unlocks the next armor.

Part of the reason why this game is so successful is because 10 year old content is still relevant, even if a large part of that is due to slow releases.

Genuinely stupid to not build off of older gear and keep them relevant. Jagex isn’t releasing content often so you need to keep a lot of viable pieces of content you can do, not just dead ones.

[true talon]

Torva was just put in a bad spot.

it being from nex and not usable untill you converted bando's

Masori was done much better

as i hope the next mage armor upgrade is also done like masori

[austere mulch]

Torva should’ve been a raid armor set and have an additional 2-3 melee str over its current place

Torva from tob, Justi from nex

The world is healing

[scenic ibex]

Torva should of had the hp boosts from pre eoc. Even if nerfed a bit

[final frigate]

is this iron enough for you

looking forward to you complaining about black keris perhaps

but this is 300 not 0 so i'm sure irons can manage with a zhasta

[obsidian venture]

He complained about your kc

To which I said this was an older screenshot

[final frigate]

kc is irrelevant anyway just learn the content

[manic star]

sooooo... are POHs ever going to be fixed, or are will they be forever bugged?

[obsidian venture]

Yeah

Whole discussion with two folks

Who want raids to be scaled to solo

[final frigate]

learn the content

[zenith pike]

Can I be for you?

[obsidian venture]

Yes please

[final frigate]

average tassili ragebait

[obsidian venture]

The other dude is bricked by teams

Woe is me

[true talon]

? how do you compare an expierenced player in shit gear to a noob in noob gear??

You can do the same in chambers and tob

if you know the content, thats not the argument that was made......

[ashen yarrow]

you dont even need zhasta, can run full bloodmoon with Dual macuahuitl on stab

dual macuahuitl without full bloodmoon is already about same as zhasta with dragon defender

[hard axle]

100% agree. One of the main problem with Torva is that if u don't balance the rarity right, one item is worthless and the other is 99% of the value.

However, Masori does it perfectly where even though Masori is more common than Armadyl, both still maintain value. Treads are a perfect example of this too.

[hard axle]

It'll be 2036 and Damage Reduction still won't work properly at 70% of bosses

[final frigate]

cause you can learn the content

just like quite literally anything in life, not just runescape

spend time learning and practicing to get better

everyone starts bad

you're the one being elitist making it sound like it's impossible for noobs to get better

[tacit pendant]

Give torva and justi 1 more str per piece 😎

Or get weird as fuck and give torva stab bonus since thats what it is already

[meager flame]

this probably isn't really the worst idea

im not sure that i actually think they will execute well though

there is a very good reason almost every game has stamina lol

[austere mulch]

ngl im a 'torva is the stab set' sentiment hater becaues i strongly disagree lol. Torva was also the 'slash' set before we got a slash set - we just don't yet have a stab set

in hindsight, id rather have had a true stab set come from nex and torva come from a raid tho

[meager flame]

basically though what it boils down to is that as the game progresses and stats get bigger and they have to keep trying to find the next big thing

[austere mulch]

bc then all accuracy types would be from standalone bosses

and max hit /general use sets would be from raids

[tacit pendant]

I could agree with that

[meager flame]

having a static hp pool that never changes actually heavily restricts some of that

[ashen yarrow]

they will add stab set and then make us combine all 4 for global bis set

[tacit pendant]

And yeah pre oath torva was a great slash set

[meager flame]

and its usually easier to just expand hp pools too so that new npcs can hit harder

[tacit pendant]

Avernic armor and instead of black and red. Its RED AND BLACK

[meager flame]

its part of why we're kinda locked into the "if you mess up you just die" simulation we're in atm

[tacit pendant]

Wait thats oath fuck

[final frigate]

i wouldn't mind torva getting stab nowadays cause torva comes from nex which you stab and we got oath, though oath is very controversial it's not like we can delete the set now

[scenic ibex]

Yea I can't see why it would hurt anything. Add the pre eoc 80hp req. Those sets used to degrade. Cant find accurate info on how the hp buffs worked. I feel it would give the armors more value tho.

[austere mulch]

another red and black set.. IM TIRED BOSS

[minor whale]

I think HP staying at 99 is absolutely required
It going above means some content becomes only doable with that set and that's lame as hell

If you have a mechanic that becomes "survive a 121 hp hit without tickeats" that content instantly becomes a hard requirement

[tacit pendant]

Justi already serves this purpose half way

Make it compete with blue moons dps and people use that shit everywhere lol

By people i mean poors

[obsidian venture]

Fr

[austere mulch]

i think the biggest potential issue is future content soft requiring it by increasing max hits from npc attacks

say you take it really far and now max hp is 140, boss hits 90s

[minor whale]

Making a new boss hit harder doesn't mean the content is harder

[austere mulch]

have fun not having that set

[minor whale]

Just makes a gear hard requirement

[tacit pendant]

Soft requiring armor isnt like the worst thing depending on severity

Min gear reqs for shit like most nex teams probably more expensive than 2 justi sets

[obsidian venture]

Atleast there’s afk nex now 👀

[tacit pendant]

Tob rewards better get hit with fuckin something for the sweep up

[austere mulch]

'all content must be widely accessible crowd' has their fist in the air at this

[scenic ibex]

Don't think we have content atm that is equivalent to this with osrs current hp thresholds. Idk why that that sentiment would change.

[obsidian venture]

Jagex needs to gatekeep stuff more

[tacit pendant]

This is the crowd that put doom and yama in the position as a huge content skip for irons

[obsidian venture]

I remember having this convo with Mic when I asked for stuff to be gatekept iirc

[austere mulch]

oh tob rewards getting hit for sure. shadow is getting 'reworked' (buffed) and scythe is getting crush removed

(please no)

[obsidian venture]

With doom release or something

[tacit pendant]

Yup weve been through it before lol

[obsidian venture]

Jagex is just scared to alienate players

Should push for skill

[tacit pendant]

Tm i think youre joking but that sounds very probable

[austere mulch]

its one of those jokes where after saying it, theres a "wait" moment

[hasty shard]

doom punish

[austere mulch]

💀

[tacit pendant]

Oh and rapier gets +10 stab accuracy, sang goes from 16% to 20% chance

[true talon]

what? your so lost you might need GPS. the arguement was new player, on new iron with a noob gear doing a raid...... but the raid is not rewarding at that level, so in order to get rewards they need to be better, the claim was people looking at TOA in 300s being to easy, is looking at it from a lens of a player 20+ year veteran in absolute max smashing the content.

[hasty shard]

how incredibly enthralling it will be to grind green scythe

[true talon]

Even if you smashed it in your budget setup. you have 627 expert kc and years of pvm expierence......

[tacit pendant]

Toa 0s are very rewarding for a brand new iron. You get thread that way

Sardaco would tell you rn that chambers is the most rewarding....

[obsidian venture]

[obsidian venture]

Not everyone is a 20+ year player

And if you are, and still suck at content, then that’s legitimately depressing

[true talon]

yes some are 10 year

[obsidian venture]

Which is also sadly kinda normal from the “vets” I see chat

Also that kc was much earlier

[true talon]

ehhh not actually true. plenty of content that existed 20 years ago had no skill or depth to it.

[obsidian venture]

And remember kc isn’t a metric of skill

You can be 2k kc and be absolutely dogshit

[tacit pendant]

I think "vets" also have a lot of biases holding them back. But conversations like these get weird cuz like people are different and motivated in diff ways

[obsidian venture]

Yeah

I played 20 years ago but didn’t do much besides hill giants and catherby fishing

[tacit pendant]

I have like 2 friends that never played before and within a year are wayyyy more skilled than some other old heads in my group

[obsidian venture]

Stopped pretty quick and didn’t start again till 2019

[true talon]

Ofc they are. the mechanics of the game has evolved drastically.

[obsidian venture]

It has

But people still play like they have no working fingers

Old gen and new gen

[hard axle]

from personal experience, most "vets" that claim 10 year or 20 year experience are like 90% people who played 1 week in 2007 and then came back in 2020

[tacit pendant]

Respources to learn have also evolved drastically

[obsidian venture]

It’s legit tragic

[hard axle]

^

resources are so fucking good now man

[obsidian venture]

Yeah the game is solved

[hard axle]

wiki is like 503213312312x better than runehq

[true talon]

resources are insanely good

[obsidian venture]

If you’re shit then that’s on you

Either due to laziness or mental gatekeeping

[austere mulch]

tip.it was also much better than runehq

[hasty shard]

current content also isnt exactly impossible to self learn

[obsidian venture]

Yeah

[hasty shard]

i tend to do that just so its more interesting

[hard axle]

yes yes, my f2p ass only remembers runehq

[obsidian venture]

I see a lot of fresh players push endgame fast

Literally doesn’t take much to learn if you’re willing

[true talon]

Only stuff like HM tob or awakened bosses due to the entry barrier.

[obsidian venture]

I didn’t do the dt2 bosses

I did like 1-3 kills and sent awakened

[true talon]

You can go die all day in learning anything else in the game

[hasty shard]

the only time i really looked up guides for doom for example was to check how to do rock setup to get 16 delve ca

[hard axle]

my ass jumped straight into awakened basically

-500m

[obsidian venture]

Wasn’t hard to figure out awakened bosses

[tacit pendant]

Legit scurrius has my newb friends pushing fire cape like 1 week after barrows gloves. Where as i had been playing for like a year when i got mine in 2016 (on osrs)

[obsidian venture]

But vard was the most fun thing

[hasty shard]

very happy i got spooned vard still

[hard axle]

i hope they just avoid cosmetics being the only reward for high level content

make it more like CG where the hardest mode = most rewarding

[tacit pendant]

Gonna pot radiant this month by time im done the content draught should be over?

[true talon]

this is so bad...........

[hasty shard]

they really gotta changed how awakeneds work

[obsidian venture]

No

Actually

[hasty shard]

let me grind them for pet

[hard axle]

make it bis for pet

[obsidian venture]

We get a sailing quest soon

[tacit pendant]

🙁

[true talon]

If i was making harder mode raids like expert, cm, hm tob. i would have had a small upgrade to all 3 mega rares as a reward.

[obsidian venture]

So that’s content I think

[hard axle]

imagine if u had to do normal gauntlet 2000 times for bowfa

[tacit pendant]

If sweepup makes corp bearable thats uh content

[obsidian venture]

Please

Make it like nex/nm

[true talon]

scythe gets kit = boost in stats.
Shadow gets kit = boost in stats.
Tbow gets kit = boost in stats.

Only obtainable though an untradeable drop during highest levels of the raid.

[obsidian venture]

Who cares for sigil prestige

[hard axle]

i want stat boosts on blorva and radiant

it doesn't have to be big

[true talon]

I also agree with that

[obsidian venture]

Then they need to crack down on services

[true talon]

But only if the entry keys are removed

they are bad

[obsidian venture]

Actually gatekeep folks

Then problem is somewhat solved

[hasty shard]

make them lighter

[obsidian venture]

Give. Inferno/colo buyers a 2 week ban + kc + ca + cape removal

But jagex doesn’t stand on business

[tacit pendant]

Hey April was kinda big for bans

[obsidian venture]

We can’t have good things thanks to shitters

Yeah I’m not saying they aren’t banning folks

I’m saying they should target other groups

[tacit pendant]

Also ive changed my mind about phosanis orb drop rates

There are no issues

[hasty shard]

specific orbs being rarer than the pet is so stupid

[true talon]

To hard to enforce, very hard to find out. technology for remote control is insanely powerful.

Majority of remote tools have 0 delay of any kind of inputs.

They gotta crack down on the sellers and service providers.

[meager flame]

they should do something way funnier

they should give them a cape with a huge clown face on it no stats and make it so they can't unequip it or use any other cape slot item for 1 year

not even kidding lol they do it so they can lie about how good they are at a video game and ego over something they didn't even do

so just tar and feather them

it would hurt them so much more than a ban ever would

[minor whale]

https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/s/xxv236rTX6

Bruh

I really gotta know how they test things

[meager flame]

https://tenor.com/view/big-brain-gif-27108854

they dont

[minor whale]

This isn't like a "change to a piece of content somehow affects BA" bug

It's a bug about the gem sack

And they don't test the one item on all account types?

Especially the single account type that has a different interface for it?

[meager flame]

i mean thats not even the only bug

im pretty sure it wasn't working correctly for anyone on release

just like the other super sus bugs they keep having in the last year or two

like house kits making the house not work

or kitted items not having stats

like fundamental issues that put on blast how nobody looked

we're gonna get a spec weapon that crashes the client or something when you use spec next lol

[hasty shard]

or the spec just never lands because its rolling off of mage acc

[meager flame]

im curious to see if their QA team will defend themselves though

because from the outside it looks like these guys are masters of being employed without working

but it could also be something in the process of how they test or pushing changes to live servers that renders their work incapable of catching bugs

which would be a massive problem but likely above their pay grade to address

[true talon]

@austere mulch how do you do scaled vespula? i just had a little one hatch on 1+3 lol

[austere mulch]

its never been close to an issue in 1+2s, but id prob just instafeed grub in higher if they proc on entry

[true talon]

i see i need anti-poison for this?

[austere mulch]

ye prepot from start lasts through it

[true talon]

1 hatched and i killed it an portal had 200 hp left, but i died to a 20 from poison lol

my anti-venom ++ ran out as i got to vespula because i did 7 stacks of kindling at ice demon lol

Tragic, never had the small one hatch before.....

Maybe i will bring an sanfew serum

[hard axle]

i don't mind when stuff breaks cuz shit happens

And I really don't care so much about artwork if they released the bare bones stuff with workable mechanics

[austere mulch]

i dont think itll work but im gonna see later tonight if its feasible to 1+4 no prep

olm is fine bc its 0supply at that scale with scy/shadow and no cripple

not sure abt the pre rooms tho

[true talon]

1+4 only adds health to olm, but 1+3 or 1+5 add health to the rooms

[austere mulch]

ye olm is all the pts, so might as well

[true talon]

you can do a mini prep after shamans on scaled to get though all the rooms with ease, as your better than me lol

actually the rooms is most the points lol

1+3 you enter with like 80k points

olm gives around 40k or so

[austere mulch]

ye i suppose maybe grabbing ice loot and doing a quicky at vesp might be worthwile

i think if it comes to killing scavs its not worth compared to 1+2

so maybe loot ice > loot buchu shamans > clear vesp > plant buchu > do rope > pick 7 or 8 buchu > clear

[true talon]

dont kill scavs ice gives 7 juice an shroom

you can prep after shamans and be ready for the rest of the raid easy

[austere mulch]

ye i meant more for chest bc i hate default

[true talon]

ya i try to get 4 planks from scavs XD

[austere mulch]

prep after vesp is at least closer to 0 time bc buchu grows while you kill rope

and then u can grab + fill pots otw back and prep while picking

[true talon]

makes no sense why they dont just have the max chest as abase level, it made sense when they didnt have a base chest there but now they do. so upgrading is kinda pointless.......

[meager flame]

i think it depends

i expect problems and i've personally see too many things go wrong with projects to assume it wont have issues

but

i think theres a big difference between esoteric issues and unforeseen circumstances and like

hey the bag for storing gems is deleting gems or duping them

that's why it looks like maybe they low key stopped doing QA or something sometimes or something is potentially very wrong with their update/test environment preventing them from testing basic functionality

[ashen yarrow]

herb sack upgrade duping herbs, totally unrelated and could not also happen to gem sack

the herb sack one could be harder to notice in test environment comparated to gems automatically going into gem bag getting deleted though

[meager flame]

i mean my only experience ever doing QA makes those things seem a bit unimaginable

like

we were trying to break everything in any way we could think of

[ashen yarrow]

herb sack one was if someone had herbs inside normal sack before update, so might be missed in test server

[meager flame]

so the idea of like the regular expected functions just not working and nobody knowing seems insane to me

its why i was suggesting maybe something is wrong between the testing and the update itself

[hard axle]

okay yeah, when u put it this way, it's definitely dependent on what it is then

[austere mulch]

ok ye just gave it a run lmao. If it werent for rope, could for sure no prep 1+4 and i think get it done in an hour or maybe just over

guess we'll find out

[true talon]

ya its RNG on the spawn, i just did it with no spawn for vespula, must of got unlucky first time. ill just bring in anti++ incase

just had like 6 teleport vasa lmao because i couldnt hit

[true talon]

@austere mulch lol scuffed raid into scuffed death.......... still ended with 80k but some bull shit.

needed 1 more hit on melee and then i coulda went to full heal with sang an i got comboed a 27 + 28 + 27 jad then lighting while i was brewing.

[hard axle]

If u know ur getting fucked, brew twice after an attack and then wait to tick eat the 3rd one

[austere mulch]

Out of curiosity, are you using sang for the heal or bc no shadow

[hard axle]

Don’t Slam down brews like ur an alcoholic

[austere mulch]

Oh wait I just realized you’re scaling cms

Mad man

[true talon]

nah scaled non cm just full scale raid

its technically a CM just not the damage/defense of a CM

[austere mulch]

Oh ig I never realized it still says CM on the kph

Thought it was cm bc of that

[true talon]

Thats just because i was doing CM's before these scales lol

[austere mulch]

But yeah was gonna say if you have shadow, at any scale 4 or higher, you can scy + shadow cycle with no tick loss or damage taken

And it’s super chill

[true talon]

im to bad for that lol

[austere mulch]

I do it with 4 ways bc lazy but if really wanting to go at it, you can do more

It’s legit easier than meleeing normally 🤣 should give it a shot

Don’t need to worry about energy management in these scales so that takes 90% of the work out of it

It’s legit just

First hit in shadow sequence (tick after olm) > run mid + 2-4 way scythe > hit melee hand > run back to mid and shadow > scythe melee hand > repeat

And the last scythe,4th hit, can also be a shadow if your melee hand is dying faster, so makes it easy to balance

[torpid delta]

does "attempting to close the quiver interface with ESC while on vanilla client crashes 100% of the time" come close enough to that

[minor whale]

Is this real

[torpid delta]

yea

i've been testing it every client update to see if my funny ragequit button has been fixed yet

[hasty shard]

i have gotten faster responses to crashes/dupes from minecraft modpack devs

imagine the world if there was a fucking osrs git repo

i beg

[torpid delta]

it's been a fun test of how fast their bug report system works (or if it just gets fed into an incinerator)

leaning towards incinerator

[hasty shard]

like literally blood moon burning claws its fucking insane that even after jmod intervention from that bs that it STILL wasnt fixed for months

and it still isnt a true fix because burn was just disabled instead

youd think 'locking an entire world out of a boss' would be a priority fix

[austere mulch]

idt 1+4 worth it, its more effort and less pph than 1+2 even w/no prep. but it was fun ig

and you need ~30 sweets for rope if you actually want to no prep vs mini prep

[true talon]

1+3 with scuffed vasa

I tried to bring in nox hally to be a stab wep for vasa and a poison cure if vespula went sideways XD

but when vasa was 100 hp my nox hally noodled on 3 crystals and it healed for over 1000hp lol

[true talon]

i think 1+3 is a good scale, it doesnt make olm that difficult and the only problematic room is Vasa......

vespula and vasa are the gate keepers mainly.

With seeker arrows it should be easier to do vasa

tbow just dont hit on normal vasa like it does a CM one

[true talon]

do 1+3 because it is 30k points more than 1+2...... for maybe 10 minute extra.

As 1+2 scales olm slightyl, but 1+3 scales the rooms. as tekton goes from 600hp to 900

Sucks if you try to do these scales in CM all you get is slightly less points and the bonus points isnt per scaled person it just 5k XD i did a 1+1 an it was 90k points....... for a CM kinda junk.

like my 1+3 got 7k less points than your 1+4 and it took 15 more minutes (because im dogshit)

[austere mulch]

yeah you should rly aim to do odd scales for the olm increase since thats where youre most efficient pph is going to come from

Vasa was for sure the bottleneck though. Killing before second tele in 1+2 vs killing after 3-4 teles in 1+3/4 is a huge contributor

[true talon]

yep vasa crystal has 360 hp and if you fail to kill it he heals for 300......

then your tbow just hits shit all the time because its a normal vasa XD

[austere mulch]

still rly good pph tho, was like 125-127k but 1+2 thats the low end, with high end being upwards of 135k

Suppose if I only have an hour and can complete one raid, would for sure to the bigger one

[true talon]

1+2 is indeed better if you do multiple, i personally like big point raids so im not bank standing XD

finish raid get white light, bank stand for 2 hours....

[austere mulch]

Yeah that’s real af lol

[hard axle]

Waiting for Jagex to add Demonic Brutus and Solo ToB to CAs and then slap a solo ToB cape like it’s CG

[thick beacon]

why not just do 2+13/16s way easier and better?

[true talon]

never done this, requires someone else XD

[thick beacon]

ye finding ppl is always a wall

in general

[austere mulch]

I like them when I don’t need to alt 🤣 but being able to just no-scout jump in a raid with no alts, no lft, or prep and get 130-135k pph I personally enjoy more than 2+13 even though it’s 15-20k less pph

I’m several years burnt from my alting phase. Only really do it these days if absolutely necessary

[thick beacon]

feel like when u have max gear theres less of a gap between doing them or not

my friend was getting 140k pph with me no mrares but like 90k not doing them

scouting takes time but if we are optimal we can scout while we afk mystics/shamans

we ran any layout really no rope rope etc

[austere mulch]

Yeah true. Wouldn’t bother with anything besides 2+x if I were on iron or less than max gear

If ever I go back and make another iron, that’s the route I’ll go

Bc anything else is miserable with cox rates 💀

[thick beacon]

the biggest downside atleast imo is its the worst content ive ever done in the game

friend didint even have bowfa was using acb for a while can push it even higher if we were more optimized

hope they do something to bring convetional chambers more up to par to be similar to mscales but alot of ppl will see that as a buff to chambers rather then making other methods more viable

[weary stag]

"should we introduce a new slayer unlock to increase the weighting of frost dragons"

Is this the start of a rs3 style preference system cuz that sounds good

[chrome lantern]

They should just increase the weighting wholesale but make it an optionally-unlocked task like lizardmen

[ashen yarrow]

I would be fine with them removing it without unlock but people would complain about it like always since they would have to spend points after change

[winged mantle]

I hope they rework slayer at some stage

Esp the point system

[chrome lantern]

If you want the task and don’t increase weighting do you even want the task

Same difference

Make the unlock free for all I care

Slayer points are archaic and dumb

They made Wildy slayer cave-only tasks a free toggle unlock

They’ve clearly demonstrated they’re able and willing to do it they just default to using points instead of trying to make things make sense

[winged mantle]

Also the 3 choice system from leagues was amazing

[chrome lantern]

It was a bit wild that they made it still so annoying to do slayer in leagues lmao

[chrome lantern]

3 notifications for one community event is kinda impressive tbh, youtube, twitch, and developer news all in a row at different moments

[bronze kernel]

Honestly, they should just make a clue and slayer relic style benefits built into certain tiers instead of a relic itself.

[austere mulch]

I would love to see this just so I can watch the world (ehp community) burn in a beautiful ball of fired up egos and tears

not sure if you were playing when slayer shifted from cannon meta to barrage meta but there were some surprisingly loud people complaining about it jump in xp rates

[tacit wharf]

now imagine they nuke turael skipping

[narrow folio]

I was so confused why they effectively buffed that strat while not really helping the streaks

[ashen yarrow]

tureal skipping removed and now you get task streak boosting meta

doing more turael tasks to fix doing turael tasks, that sure helps

[tacit wharf]

ahh yes, because its very hard to just have turael say "yr beyond the point of needing tasks from me at yr lvl" or something like that

[bronze kernel]

Turael skipping dies but in exchange, we get a Slayer partner meta where you team up with an alt that has jack shit for tasks by skipping a million quests or staying at a specific Slayer level

[ashen yarrow]

turael banned, now we mazchna boost instead

[bronze kernel]

Turael for skips. Mazchna for boosting is actually better

Since the tasks aren't all that much longer, and you can squeeze out more points

[ashen yarrow]

best is mix of turael, mazchna and konar assuming you have block lists for all 3

you would do 9 turael -> 10th on mazchna -> 50th on konar/duradel

[bronze kernel]

You know, it would be funny if Slayer masters just assigned anything that can be considered a slayer task. Just one big clusterfuck.

With higher Slayer masters giving more for some

Duradel telling you to kill 1000 goblins

[minor whale]

Mazchna boosting is already slightly better than Turael boosting

[tacit pendant]

Mazchna boosting is nice

Like keeping turael set for skipping and as a mini boss master for a few cas i gotta knock out

Not that turaels boost list is different than his skip list

[meager flame]

https://old.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1te1nzb/why_does_inquisitors_have_less_crush_bonus_than/

this is the most painful comment section i might have ever seen on reddit

[narrow folio]

Inq also has the extra percent bonuses

[meager flame]

yeah lol

which actually makes it fairly similar to oathplate given you have an equal weapon/npc to fight with it

but i think a lot of people actually dont know that and just assume it sucks now

and by fairly similar they're actually absurdly close lol

the main difference is the game caters to giving you more slash options and of course slash bosses

[hoary granite]

I wonder if theres a way with our current game engine to make matchmaking for raids. Like you could just click look for team and it would match you with a team. For tob you could select a role and it would match you with the other roles ect.

[meager flame]

yeah they should be able to do that

not sure it would be a good idea though

[hoary granite]

I mean, you could set paramiters I'm sure, like 100+ kc or whatever

[ashen yarrow]

people when inquisitor has -4 attack bonus per piece but also +0.5% crush atk and dmg buff with set effect increasing it further and doubling bonus for inquisitor mace

[narrow folio]

Yeah its not just about straight armor comparisons

If we got 20 crush bosses in a row inq would be considered op

[meager flame]

i low key actually think inq would be better given equal situations

it has prayer bonus which i think is a more useful stat than def when you play a boss correctly

[ashen yarrow]

people using oathplate would happily trade 6 slash attack for +2.5% atk and dmg bonus

[meager flame]

when i was simming it basically inq was like

very marginally better scaling as a gear set but not enough to like

really care about

obv with the mace its huge

but outside of the mace they're very very similar

with the mace though its insane

its like

actually almost approaching megarare tier when it works

[hasty shard]

how much str bonus does the % give again isnt it like literally 3 in max

😭

its something comedically small

[meager flame]

yeah thats why it doesn't just immediately like

blow past oathplate

the bonus has to stay small otherwise it would get really out of hand immediately

thats probably why the real set bonus is locked behind the mace

and everything else gets a pretty minor one

[ashen yarrow]

+3 max hits is very big when new bis gear upgrades dont usually even give +1

[hasty shard]

3 str bonus

not max

[meager flame]

depends on your gear but

because its a %

it actually scales as the rest of our gear slots do

[ashen yarrow]

well from what i checked in max gear going from oathplate to inquisitor is +4 max hits for inquisitor mace while str bonus from armours is same

[meager flame]

so like

lets say jagex goes through with giving us a really big crush weapon

as a mega

inq is going to be quite good for it lol

[hasty shard]

well yeah because inq mace gets 7.5% in comparison lol

other crush caps at 2.5% for the full set

1% if on task because why would you not wear slayer helm

intense 1% str bonus

[meager flame]

the numbers basically have to stay small like that because the actual difference between say

inq without the set bonus and oathplate and torva is not a very big gap

so as soon as you start dropping in little accuracy buffs and a little scaling suddenly we're unequipping most if not all of torva

i kinda think the melee armor sets are crazy work from jagex in a bad way but

its close enough that niches are basically side grading each other out for bis

even if all of the drops aren't equally rare or difficult to get

but yeah basically assuming jagex makes a weapon and a few bosses we're seconds from inq doing the same thing oathplate did to torva

[winged mantle]

Slayer rebalance would be so welcome

[blissful cove]

Was the toggle for infernal tools implemented in-game yet? I remember a blog coming out regarding this over a month ago

[meager flame]

im pretty sure the ehp guys are one of the worst things for the game all time lol

like slayer desperately needs overhauls and just a lot of change

its so broken and every year we just delve further into simply skipping for everything and task lists becoming more bloated

[winged mantle]

I love aya skipping 160 tasks for 1 revenant task wym slayer is fine

Trying to get aquanite/ gryphon/ frost dragon tasks on release were a nightmare

[obsidian venture]

Still haven’t touched sailing pvm