game-update

[crystal halo]

Think about those xp tomes

[restive storm]

so every breach there'd be like 200 people doing the quest cuz somehow the breach was always in varlamore

[minor whale]

Instead, could interest you in Leechfin proposal blog #41

[severe escarp]

Tbf varlamore feels like an open savannah

Good place for hunting

[crystal halo]

You laugh but this poll is getting no voted

[nocturne solstice]

yeah its pretty big for hunter

[crystal halo]

Prepare for blog #63

[meager flame]

pls just let it pass so we can let it die

[severe escarp]

Nope we're getting leechfin poll #69

[crystal halo]

Leechfin will now be a reward from raids 4

[nocturne solstice]

If poll 70 turns leechfins from a fishing activity into a new group boss I'd be fine with that

[frozen lion]

just make leechfin new fish for deepsea trawling, swimming around vampyrium

[severe escarp]

Sailing on a blood ocean sounds nice

[crystal halo]

I like how sailing trawling is dogshit xp

[nocturne solstice]

Heard it was good GP tho

[severe escarp]

Ew get this main talk outta here

[crystal halo]

Cuz no bots on it yet

[tender harness]

why would someone be bothered to kill 778 jads with the yama jad challenge 💀

[ashen yarrow]

good gp and good fish for ironman. mains just dont want to do it since it isnt best gp/h

[tender harness]

the fish is still worse than hunters meat

😉

[crystal halo]

Halibut tho

[frozen lion]

depends

[crystal halo]

Gimme my halibut

[nocturne solstice]

I thought marlin was best single eat food now?

[frozen lion]

with no delay, yes

delay, single eat moonlight antelope is better

[crystal halo]

Delay is also weird gimmick food imo

[nocturne solstice]

hmm 24 v 26 delayed

[crystal halo]

It doesnt really add anything?

[severe escarp]

How do you even bot sailing lol

[frozen lion]

cant spam eat, its situational

[frozen lion]

oh they will work it out

[crystal halo]

Bots can already sail and do everything

[severe escarp]

But if bots get wet they'll break down

[crystal halo]

They have all aspects of sailing botted

[meager flame]

tbh theres almost no reason to bot sailing

salvage is almost a bot program on its own

[kind surge]

sailing is actually such a doomed skill it's so sad

[tender harness]

salvaging was a mistake at the rates it was introduced with

[frozen lion]

I like sailing

[severe escarp]

I like it too

[crystal halo]

I did salavage only to 87 or whatever the last island is and never went back

Thank god for salvage

[severe escarp]

Im looking forward to future sailing content

[tender harness]

sailing on paper? its fine
the execution of it and delivery was half baked rushed out the door and a mess

[kind surge]

sailing on paper looked fine and I was excited

[frozen lion]

i look forward sailing expansions much more than raid 4

[kind surge]

but like it's pretty eh with how jagex did it

[meager flame]

i think eventually they'll actually put cool stuff on islands and it'll feel good to have the level

[tender harness]

cuda trials were a buggy nightmare
salvaging was/is frankly the most broken afk method in the game
crystal extractor was just ??? what the fuck we added that for no idea

[crystal halo]

They have whole beta worlds and got so much feedback and just said nah fuck it send it to main game

[tender harness]

combat should have been delayed personally

port tasks are depressing

[severe escarp]

Crystal extractor is to make barracuda trials faster

[frozen lion]

anyone does port tasks for anything else than pet rolls?

[crystal halo]

Extractor charged my crystal armour for months

Thank you gagex

[tender harness]

I mean yes but when it was 600 xp every 60 seconds
it literally gave people free crystal shards

and a massive buff to xp/hr

it was just dumb dopamine

[severe escarp]

Well they tried nerfing it didnt they?

[tender harness]

they did nerf it

[severe escarp]

Then reddit got mad

[frozen lion]

it still gives free shards

just less xp

[severe escarp]

I like free shardsies:)

[crystal halo]

Also doesn't work at ports anymore right

[tender harness]

I abused it to 99 doing glide and a mix of salvaging
but its a stupid facility

[severe escarp]

Me iron me like free stuff

[obsidian venture]

Gotta wait till 2027 for endgame content 🥀

[crystal halo]

People were doing bank skills while getting extractor xp and shards

[tender harness]

need to buckle the fuck up though and finish. 4 skills left after this

[severe escarp]

You yearn for the mines

[frozen lion]

still no pet

[severe escarp]

I yearn for the high seas

[crystal halo]

I will get 99 mining if toa 2.0 tells me to get it

Only reason i have 85 is cuz of toa

[tender harness]

my options are smithing, RC, slayer or hunter

[severe escarp]

Rc

[crystal halo]

Get rc over with

[severe escarp]

Blood runes only 🙂

[crystal halo]

All other skills are pretty fast

[tender harness]

I just dont like slayer

never have

[severe escarp]

Slayer is a very easy 99

[crystal halo]

Dont you still need like hydra claws?

[severe escarp]

It just takes some time

[frozen lion]

my only non 99 xD

[crystal halo]

And arraxor drops

[tender harness]

and culling spree from leagues just makes me realize that not having the option to pick between 2 standards or a boss task and reroll them

is shit

[severe escarp]

My main is like 200k xp away from 99 slayer

[tender harness]

97 rc 96 slayer

[severe escarp]

But then I got into my iron account and never went back

[tender harness]

so guess we go RC

[severe escarp]

That one new sailing island proposed a similar idea

But jagex was like nah we're not adding that in

[crystal halo]

But they will add imbued heart lite

[tender harness]

they keep pushing turael skipping for some reason

[crystal halo]

👀

[tender harness]

which is miserab;e

[meager flame]

tbh jagex does need a new slayer master or some kind of rework

i currently turael skip for 3 tasks

and i sometimes go for days without seeing 1 or 2 of them

[crystal halo]

The slayer uniques need to drop from bosses somehow aswell

1 in 10k idc

[meager flame]

durael just has like

way too many tasks at this point

and i guess i could try even harder and like completely change my usual block list and disable a bunch of stuff

[tender harness]

Durael is dead

[meager flame]

but at this point its just crazy we need another master

[tender harness]

like physically and literally dead

[frozen lion]

boss only slayer master

[crystal halo]

Dont do the quest

Ghommal must live on

Dont want a small ass dwarf as ca master

[meager flame]

that dwarf was the most sus npc i've ever seen in this game

[crystal halo]

Very weird npc yes

[ripe cradle]

doesnt duradel have less tasks now than it did like 5 years ago

since metal dragon tasks

[frozen lion]

revive arrav and let him be slayer master

[meager flame]

he dropped looking like this

[frozen lion]

WutFace

[meager flame]

and they had to update him to remove the rug burn

[severe escarp]

Freaky ahh dwarf

[meager flame]

lmfao it was nuts

and of course his name was laidee gnonock

[severe escarp]

Why's he smiling too

[crystal halo]

He will touch you

[severe escarp]

Most npc's don't even have a mouth

[crystal halo]

See those knees hes been working for that position

[severe escarp]

😟

[frozen lion]

this dude should be slayer master

[crystal halo]

Ah that explains a lot laidee was added during pride

[meager flame]

nah even jagex knew they were wilding they updated him to have pants after

this is how it is now lol

[crystal halo]

I remember one of the jmods that now has left would dress up in gimp shit

So probably their idea

[manic star]

I really think the bug reporting system needs a serious overhaul because right now it feels like screaming into a void. I have been dealing with a game breaking issue for months now and I have put in so much work trying to help get it fixed. I spent hours of my own time isolating the variables, figuring out exactly how to reproduce it, and documenting what happens when it triggers just so the team would have everything they need.

There is no confirmation after submitting other then the temporary in-game notification. There is no email and no way to actually see my submission history after the fact. It is incredibly demotivating to put in that much effort to help improve the game just to be met with total silence. It makes it feel like my reports are just being ignored or lost.

People in this channel tell me to just keep resubmitting the same thing until a dev finally notices it, but that is such an inefficient non-solution for everyone involved. If resubmitting is really what we are expected to do, then at the very least we should be able to access our past reports so we can provide the same detailed information without having to start over. We really need a basic confirmation system or a way to track our reports so we know our time isn't being wasted.

[crystal halo]

What is the bug?

[frozen lion]

much better

those legs and girly shoes

lol

[manic star]

Has to do with POHs

I do not want to disclose too much information about it due to it being able to be used in a malicious manner

but I am a POH hoster and this bug has made me have to stop something I love about this game

I wish it could just be fixed, or at the very least acknowledged

[crystal halo]

People stealing from ur tip jar?

[manic star]

No

trade manipulation

[frozen lion]

please another falador massacre

DO IT

[crystal halo]

Lets manipulate jagex into working on main game

And maybe they can fix ur bug

[frozen lion]

https://tenor.com/view/emperor-palpatine-smile-star-wars-revenge-of-the-sith-ian-mcdiarmid-gif-12276403864815224151

[manic star]

I posted it on reddit and the amount of scammers begging me in my DMs for how it is done is crazy

like it is a bad bug, and I will not host until its fixed

[crystal halo]

What would the end goal of this trade bug be?

Duping?

[manic star]

scamming

And i will not have that being done in my POH

and also it fucks up the entire tick rate of the game

[frozen lion]

let me have this gentleman in my poh

[manic star]

so visitors cannot do basic functionality in my POH

[crystal halo]

Lol weird

[meager flame]

i mean sometimes it just takes them awhile to fix stuff

[manic star]

Yeah and extremely frustrating when you put in hours figuring out exactly what causes it, just to be ignored. multiple times at that

[meager flame]

like i had previously reported some things they didnt fix until rendi went live on them and it turned into a big drama calendar alert for everyone

[crystal halo]

Remember i think framed made a poh bug video?

[manic star]

im not even saying fix it ASAP, just please acknowledge it

[crystal halo]

Where you would lose your items in the boxing ring

Not sure if it was framed actually

[meager flame]

i remember the og version of that

[manic star]

I gurantee there is stuff like that which can happen with this bug

[meager flame]

where you just got people low on hp and poisoned with the poh combat ring

then just booted them out

and collected your loot

[crystal halo]

It was gudi

https://youtu.be/v7cNisA1xsI

[manic star]

idk exactly what you can do, because to even test it I had to bond another account

[meager flame]

construction was like brand new when that happened

and jagex fixed it that day lol

[manic star]

I even posted some screenshots of the bug on reddit, it blew up and there was still 0 jmod interaction

like i dont understand why it is being ignored

[meager flame]

tbf it might just be really hard to fix

[manic star]

Yeah but like thats fine, I JUST WANT ACKNOWLEDGMENT

just say you saw my report

and that its on your radar

that is already huge, doesnt make me think my efforts were for nothing

[meager flame]

but yeah idk when i was a kid i basically ran around rs trying to figure out bugs/exploits all day and sometimes they're really bad

[crystal halo]

Sadly the fastest way to get it fixed is leak it

[manic star]

then I get banned

[meager flame]

idk who does qa for them now but im assuming they're more familiar with how it happens these days

[manic star]

its so backwards man

[meager flame]

but back in the day they had no concept of things like stacking interfaces at all

and you could just go do crazy shit

[crystal halo]

I dont think you would get banned for making a video on it if jagex aint listening

[manic star]

I show it to people sometimes in game that dont believe me

everytime they are so shocked

[crystal halo]

But other than that you just gotta wait

[manic star]

so like we have to be video content creators now 😭 I dont know how to do that man

i know how to make bug reports

its just sad idk

[tender harness]

There are just too many things not fixed with main game rn

[manic star]

everytime i bring this topic up the moral of the response is just "yeah thats just how it is"

[crystal halo]

Can you use it on me ?

[meager flame]

assuming they aren't just ignoring it

what is likely happening is that its a problem with the engine

and if you were to go show everyone they would probably just do something drastic like disable trading inside of a poh or whatever

[crystal halo]

They would've told OP to not talk about it further

[meager flame]

once they realized people were really doing it

[crystal halo]

If they saw a very big bug like that

[manic star]

yeah i mean it quite literally breaks the entire tick engine

[manic star]

yeah exactly

I have been extremely cautious with the information

and that just makes it easily ignorable

even though I am trying my best to communicate all the info to jagex

but as I said befor, screaming into the void.....

[crystal halo]

Can you use it on my main i wanna see how i would lose items with this

[manic star]

everyone on reddit told me this, so I mean it was already the sentiment from the community with just a few screenshots

[crystal halo]

I mean if they havent said anything to you yet they probably sidnt even see the report

[manic star]

exactly

[crystal halo]

Ive reported so many bugs never get fixed

[manic star]

thats why I keep bringing it up, but there is just 0 interaction anywhere I try

Anyways, I will stop spamming this chat. Foolish of me to think a mod would step in at some point in the conversation. thanks for the talk guys @crystal halo @meager flame @tender harness @frozen lion

[frozen lion]

hopefully they get stuff done

[minor whale]

Nah, unless it becomes so widespread that it is unignorable, it's just gonna exist.

A lot of the bugs that were huge that streamers made videos on had existed for a long time and it only got fixed when it was revealed and forced Jagex's hand. It's really sad but pretty much how it goes

Thanks for attempting to help the game lmao

[meager flame]

i wish they would just give us the next raid blog already

they really let that conversation die

[manic star]

its almost like there are not 23 jmods online in discord that could read this chat lmfao

what is the point anymore man

[obsidian venture]

Tbf like 4 tops read

[minor whale]

They're busy (they have leagues related issues to not do until next league)

[obsidian venture]

As they’re more involved with the community part

[manic star]

i for sure get that, all i am really looking for is acknowledgment

not for them to drop everything and fix it, I know it doesnt work like that

[manic star]

thats fair

just everything about this whole process is so confusing/mis leading

i wouldnt be surprised if the in game bug reports are bugged at this point

[minor whale]

Haha I was being sarcastic since the last blog post is a laundry list of things they won't be doing until the next league lmao

It is really upsetting that massive bugs can exist as long as the people who find them keep it hush-hush and only "quietly" partake in their existence.

[manic star]

couldnt agree more, you hit it right on the nose

I'm basically left with keeping it hush-hush to not let scammers exploit it, or make the bug mainstream so Jagex finally acknowledges it while at the same time risking a ban on my account for that

its an extremely frustrating and broken system.

[true talon]

I likew to think this time period of video games was just fever dream thats over now.

[hasty shard]

burning claws blood moon reminder

remember how long that took and it wasnt even patched properly

literally got a faster response from minecraft modpack devs for a meme dupe

[tight brook]

still no gembag or cannonball update.

[restive storm]

have u tried animation stalling with the giant easter egg in pvp worlds tho? they were COOKIN last week

[tight brook]

LOL

[ripe cradle]

yearly pvp update

[true talon]

Pvp will just go the way wow pvp did, it was popular an then neglected and raiding/m+ took the focus.

[tender harness]

vlad took that bullet for us all

[true talon]

Pvp design with risk involved is just not easy to design, because the skill gap is massive.

Entire reward structure for wilderness pvp is predator vs prey

[restive storm]

yeah agreed, it was better when the predator was sometimes the prey without the pj timer

kept it much more active too

[true talon]

wrong, every single pker agree's (besides clanners) that the PJ timer was the best thing ever added to the wilderness.

[restive storm]

all six of the pkers that are left?

[south void]

Am I considered a pker if I kill myself all the time? (humour)

[restive storm]

all i know is it used to be hours upon hours of content all the time, and now nobody's there

[true talon]

Pj timer killed it, because the ones who would go out there. would get spec traded till they died.

They added the pj timer to late

[restive storm]

but it was active out there lol, so how coudl that have killed it?

if it was active

[true talon]

Wouldnt call 100 people out hunting 1 guy not with their tribe "Active"

[restive storm]

what about groups of like 5-10 hunting other groups of 5-10?

[true talon]

Never happened

[restive storm]

LOL ok man

so u just dont know about the wildy in that case got it

thats literally the majority of what was going on in the wildy pre pj timer

[sacred oracle]

[hard axle]

@tender harness told you

[manic star]

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-fine-fire-house-burning-okay-gif-5263684

[tender harness]

surely next week
update will be gem bag and will be look see we remember main game exists

[restive storm]

Gem Bag update

https://klipy.com/gifs/x3-1--k01KQCSP4EX6RDPT6KY93QCF4WE

its what we been waiting for

[true talon]

Gem bag woulda been nice before i finished 99 sailing

[restive storm]

only 5 months too late

prob more like 6 when it actually releases

[manic star]

keep coping

ill be there with you bro

[austere mulch]

Really hoping BMR and the new boss delivers, because it’s otherwise shaping up to be a pretty rough year for the osrs team

At least as far as community feedback goes

[hard axle]

something tells me i might finish the zulrah grind before the venom clouds get fixed

[sacred oracle]

avg kc for greenlog is 11k i hear

[severe escarp]

next week definitely gem bag update 🥲

I've stayed at 87 sailing just for this update

[brisk hill]

[restive storm]

im sayin

like tell me you havent played the game prior to 2022 without telling me

[brisk hill]

Must’ve been a fever dream because that never happened.

[restive storm]

my entire like 2017-2022 is a lie

[meager flame]

i just hope they can abort the new content cycle

and start doing smaller but regular updates again

we're just eating the result of a dev cycle that focuses almost exclusively on large updates

[covert hinge]

I would like them to put old content / skilling methods up to date before getting new one out. Like, I personally feel that smithing, mining, rune crafting and agility feels idk, outdated, not on par with other skills, there is also a bunch of dead content as well.

[frozen lion]

have you seen crafting?

literally most boring skill without single minigame to it

[covert hinge]

True

[severe escarp]

There will be a crafting activity this year

[scenic ibex]

Would love to see some of the back logged suggestions from socials and the old weekly q&as get looked at and released in small batches. One back logged idea I am patiently looking forward too is reworking lucky implings loot tables to make them more rewarding. Sucks getting 10 blood runes or 6 trout

[frozen lion]

UNlucky impling

[true talon]

Lucky implings should only include the unique tables for clues and not the junk.

[minor whale]

Well
They said it's 2 weeks out

Next week is likely just more "league fixes" they're saving up so they have something next week

[wintry fox]

Jagex fixing like 5 small things and calling it an update is how we've been going since sailing came out

[loud ivy]

nah next week is the headline update of making medallion of the deep work on fossil island, 4 months after saying they'd do this

[wintry fox]

15,99 🦀

[true talon]

got a big summer coming.

[wintry fox]

One total update planned with blood moon rises

[true talon]

Summer sweep up

[loud ivy]

thats already been delayed twice (?)

once at least for sure

[tacit wharf]

bmr? once for sailing combat and leagues

[restive storm]

delayed for sailing combat is hilarious tbf

[wintry fox]

Summer sweep up isnt a major game update imo

Its just a bunch of small fixes disguised as a bigger update

[carmine junco]

It's a marketing and work prioritization effort. Not to mention that a lot of the previous years sweep ups haven't been fixes but outright changes to content.

[hard axle]

Even for the average joe who isn't pet hunting, this is a dearth of content.

They no longer have an excuse about how they need to pace out content as to avoid powercreeping too much and keeping old items relevant because you can do that with new items being useable right away, but eating up old drops for full stats.

[carmine junco]

By packaging it as a desirable update, it becomes easier to justify the work being prioritized, when normally it's doubtful those changes would ever be picked up in the first place.

[wintry fox]

Frankly with an entire year of nothing, i dont really think summer sweep up is worth calling a major update

[carmine junco]

That's good because it doesn't seem like they are either. It's one of the small boxes on the roadmap

So it's notable but not one of the major points like raids or bmr

[true talon]

Ya but i see how this becomes a problem, example the avernic treads. needs 3 dif type of boots that needs 3 dif crystals....

[carmine junco]

It's clear they understand it's not on the same level as the other things there

[hard axle]

ngl, summer sweep up is a major point

in the past

[wintry fox]

Even considering blood moon rises and the new raid, we had way more content drops in the other years a raid and major quest came out

[hard axle]

they've been massive changes that people responded to massively well without adding new content

[hard axle]

not a problem at all, stop being a bitch and do ur clues

and ur crystals

[carmine junco]

Exactly what I mean, people like it so it's easier for them to justify doing that work

[wintry fox]

Clues are lame

[hard axle]

it beats the old peg crystal system by a mile where you need the previous bis to actually use the item

by miles

shit being useable on drop while being able to consume older items is a net positive

[true talon]

Avernic ring which needs 3 rings, 9 ingots, 3 vestieges

[carmine junco]

Except the boots are already bis out of the box, and the upgrades are simply that.

[hard axle]

hear me out

yes

[wintry fox]

If the upgrade makes the boots better, its not bis out of the box

Thats not what bis means

[hard axle]

either way, eat the old shit, useable right out of box

good system

[carmine junco]

They're better than any of those other items by themselves

So the upgrades only make the item even more so

[true talon]

We need something to eat the sang and toxic trident.

[wintry fox]

Not true actually, avernics are weaker than prims

By 1 str bonus

For some reason

[hard axle]

ive been saying how sang needs to be better since ayak dropped, is easier to get, and is 1/10 the price per shot

really dumb ngl

and no, cutting it down to 1-2 blood runes is not going to fix it

[true talon]

Twisted scythe bow of tumenken

[hard axle]

it needs stats/dps increase

[carmine junco]

Even still, you'd wear avernics in any content you'd be swapping styles in or simply prims if you weren't or didn't upgrade the boots.

People want the game to not have upgrades but also not dead content items but also not have charge items but also not have no new items. Every time someone says upgradescape or something similar it just shows they don't know what they want

[tacit wharf]

i just want jagex to treat magic like it has multiple weaknesses instead of just saying, oh powered stave only way to move forward bullshit

[carmine junco]

They made some progress with that because of weaknesses but at the top end it's still powered staves of course

[tacit wharf]

oh and make weaknesses actually matter

[wintry fox]

I frankly dont mind if cerb becomes dead content

[carmine junco]

That's partially because people want either thralls or veng because the damage from them is worth mroe than the potential from exploiting weaknesses.

[wintry fox]

Cerb is terrible

[minor whale]

I think instead of elemental we should have had standard/ancient/powered (and then demonbane off to the side for demons)

[carmine junco]

Cerb is fine, really. Especially these days

[wintry fox]

Nah, still a prayer potion gulping sim with terrible loot barring uniques

[carmine junco]

Arceus ward and emberlight make cerb as easy as ever

[wintry fox]

And even then only prims are worth anything

[tacit wharf]

thats the way i already look at them, and in those each type of weaknesses is a subset, or more specific weakness

[carmine junco]

And the point of it is to spend the resources you've gained else why have them at all

[wintry fox]

Supply drain has to be worth the drain

[minor whale]

Cerb is entirely fine

It's extremely common drops and a common task

By the time it's time to kill him you should have plenty of supplies

[wintry fox]

Its normal loot is trash

[carmine junco]

Considering the avernics now this isn't even true anymore, precisely why it's fine to have them. Because you can combine them all

[tacit wharf]

not all bosses need to drop a shit ton of $$$

[minor whale]

That's why uniques exist
Not all bosses need to shit out good common loot

[tacit wharf]

and honestly that type of loot is horrible for the game as a whole

[wintry fox]

Id expect common loot to let you break even at minimum with supplies

[minor whale]

People generally really dislike good common loot when semi common uniques is much better

[carmine junco]

You profit with the uniques

That's the point

[wintry fox]

Common loot should let you break even

[carmine junco]

Why?

[wintry fox]

It currently doesn't

[minor whale]

It's 26k/kill without any uniques

[tacit wharf]

common loot should not be a breakeven

[minor whale]

That's not terrible

[wintry fox]

Compare cerb to literally every other slayer boss

[carmine junco]

Like sire?

I can't imagine sire is better

[wintry fox]

Sire is better actually

Way better

[carmine junco]

Though it does have aether catalysts these days

[wintry fox]

Even outside of that

Its common loot is actually quite good

[carmine junco]

Wiki says sire is worse

[wintry fox]

Wiki is full of shit

[carmine junco]

Okay, so where's your data

[wintry fox]

Cerbs profit is only uniques

Remove uniques and check loot per kill

[minor whale]

26k/kill average loot from Cerb without uniques and 52k/kill average loot from Sire without uniques, but Sire is much worse gp/hr

[wintry fox]

Exactly

[minor whale]

You can't just say "ignoring uniques" though

Uniques are part of the gp/hr

[wintry fox]

I can, because 80% of cerbs value is prims

[minor whale]

You can dislike it but they're still drops on the table and not even particularly rare

[wintry fox]

No prims, no money

[carmine junco]

Sire is about 1/3rd value from uniques (the full bludgeon) and cerb is about 1/2 clue from uniques (prims mostly)

[minor whale]

You want consistent money go kill Vorkath or Zulrah

[wintry fox]

Deliberately misconstruing my point

[minor whale]

Your point seems to be "uniques only is bad" which most disagree with

[carmine junco]

Your point is that all bosses should be what, equally profitable?

[wintry fox]

I want cerbs common loot to be at least like sires considering its req is 8 levels higher

Its currently got so many troll drops

[minor whale]

But your gp/hr is higher

[wintry fox]

Ashes, unholy symbol

Etc

[minor whale]

It literally doesn't matter if your common loot is worse

Your average gp is better

[carmine junco]

Sire drops talismans

Do you know how many single tali drops I have from sire?

[minor whale]

You're complaining about if you only do 1 hour of content but that's a terrible way to balance things

[wintry fox]

Reliant on a 1/4 whenever you get a unique

With no prims its worse

Statistically more people dont get prims than do

[carmine junco]

Sires unique value mostly comes from bludgeon, a 1/3 chance every 1/100 drop

And requires you to have the full thing to make it tradable

[wintry fox]

I have literally thousands of kc in both bosses

My sire loot is worth more

[obsidian venture]

You still breakeven for the most part

And you always end up profiting regardless

[carmine junco]

Okay? Great anecdote.

Wiki says you make more on average from cerb and had actual data

[wintry fox]

Dont care

[carmine junco]

Then your opinion is irrelevant

[wintry fox]

Okay troll

[minor whale]

"CoX is only 1.5m/hr if you don't get any uniques why is it worse than picking up red berries from edge dungeon"

Because uniques exist and you can't balance things around not getting uniques

[minor whale]

Anecdotally you get unlucky at Cerb or lucky at Sire

[jagged marsh]

tbf they did nerf the shit out of cox loot

[minor whale]

If I got 2 tbows in 200 cox kc that doesn't mean ToB is actually worse than CoX

It just means anecdotes are useless

[obsidian venture]

Kind of a dumb argument tbh. You legit profit even if camping scythe + bf (I did)

If you want to increase margins use an emblerlight

[jagged marsh]

Can't wait for a zammy demon in raids 4

[minor whale]

Yeah I'm not seeing how you're using 26k/kill at Cerb lmao

[jagged marsh]

More demombane please

[minor whale]

Unless you're chugging sanfews

[obsidian venture]

You use like a sip or two of a prayer pot each kill

If that breaks the bank just logout

[jagged marsh]

TFA is basically confirmed to be GWD2 right

[obsidian venture]

Not really?

[carmine junco]

Even as an iron cerb wasn't even that huge a drain on my resources after my (admittedly lucky) greenlog. I had to go to about 1200 kc for prims Crystal and didn't feel like it was that bad

[jagged marsh]

Thematically

[obsidian venture]

Related to gods yes ofc

But how? No clue atm

[jagged marsh]

Trailer has Saradomin Zammy Armadyl and Bandos in it, Justi Ezekiel could be a GW player

Like Zachariah

Only one that's been revealed besides the Guthix Guardian (likely the final boss)

[jagged marsh]

Would also make sense bc saradomin and Armadyl are forces of good, Bandos and Zamorak are forces of evil, Guthix is balance

I mean duh

But it should tie into GWD somehow, it's old as hell now but still one of old school's most iconic areas

[hard axle]

meanwhile my lazy ass lets common loot despawn

less looting = good

rarer uniques = doubly good

but yeah, almost everything in this game lets you break even minus 3-4 pieces of content

that's why uniques end up being rarer

[meager flame]

tbh the game is like a couple of changes away from being even better cerb is a good example

if they would just make corp a boss for humans to go do and have fun together

people would get the spectral before cerb

just like how if the next raid is really crush weak pnm and the nightmare are going to get pulled into the rotation of stuff people actually do

[carmine junco]

Would be nice if Corp were more than a meme

My first toa purple was a ward and I looked at Corp and realized I'd never care that much for a reinforced ward

[chrome lantern]

What agility changes

[meager flame]

the one where everyone realized agility absolutely sucks and jagex caved and buffed run regen eventually

and the rate it goes down

thats why i was saying leagues are more useful for the contrast rather than actually 1:1 taking something put in the league

it just makes people realize some stuff sucks a lot and then jagex comes up with something to address that feedback eventually

[chrome lantern]

Eh I don’t necessarily think run energy changes can be attributed to Leagues

Nor do I feel like it actually changed Agility itself

[meager flame]

i think its part of it just because that was the moment where people experienced what it would be like to just never walk again

then came back to earth when it was over

thieving is another example where eventually it will probably change

at least pickpockets anyways

then theres the obvious clue scroll changes that are a lot closer to just 1:1 league update

[chrome lantern]

No reason to; they didn’t put it in CAs or the clog

[chrome lantern]

Thankfully they’re not 1:1, there’s a limit on the stacks. I do think at this point though with how much they’ve destroyed the core identity of doing clues via stackable and 1hr despawn times that they could do with preserving completion steps so that juggling feels less beneficial/“required.” But honestly I really really hate clues nowadays, despite having done thousands and really enjoying them in the past before 1hr changes, then even source with stackables

And yeah, Brutus was also explicitly pitched as, “This was done for passion and was easy and fast and didn’t take up dev time from other releases!” unless I’m mistaken

[minor whale]

If they had even a smattering of monthly "here's something to do" people would be so much happier

[meager flame]

i feel like they never should've stopped

that was like

one of the most original and different things about playing runescape

not even osrs either like

that's what it was like to log in and play the game in 2004

[hard axle]

They aren't going to put the Demonic Slippers on Clog, same as Ancient Blood Kit.

Pet isn't higher rate and no Awakened Boss exclusive uniques

cowards

[bronze kernel]

It was a Game Jam project. Basically, it was done during the week where Jagex is like "Fuck around and make whatever you want" week.

[whole glacier]

thank you mods for fixing the ferox -> wildy canoe path

[velvet spear]

i may be dumb, where would i throw an issue report for normal client? seems since new renderer some of necklaces and stuff, the jewels and stuff are rending under the clothes instead of ontop of the actual necklace piece

[nocturne solstice]

You'd report it in-game by right clicking the red report button near the chatbox and selecting "report game bug"

[velvet spear]

i have played for like 20 years and never knew that was a thing

ty

[tender harness]

this doesnt even look fun

but good thing leagues are priority xdf

[gaunt minnow]

Max ur account bro

2012 content

[true talon]

thorns kinda insane yea

[austere mulch]

I think the whole “you’re not maxed, you haven’t done enough content to say there is a lack thereof” is such a baseless argument

Sure, someone with 800 total that makes sense for. But if WC is someone’s last skill, as an example, what experience are they going to gain content-wise from sitting at redwoods for another 30 hours

[tender harness]

theyre just posting low quality rage bait

[gaunt minnow]

Yeah agreed but generally the people saying there’s no content to do are also the ones sat at the ge in fire cape, Bandos and fang who havnt even been to entry mode Toa before

They just refuse to engage with any content and say there’s nothing to do

[austere mulch]

I see more of those complaints from end/post game players but that’s also the crowd I’m around the most, so there’s probably some bias there admittedly

From what I see, a lot of newer players are actually overwhelmed with the amount of content available since it’s a “choose your own path” type of game for the most part

And then the players at the other end of that complain there isn’t enough

Specifically not enough at the top end*

[gaunt minnow]

I can understand the lack of content recently with sailing and raids 4 taking up the majority of the devs time but the game has like 50k hours worth of content, people saying they’re literally unsubbing obviously havnt completed everything and should just say ‘there’s nothing I enjoy anymore’ because there’s plenty of content to do and saying there’s no content is disingenuous

[gaunt minnow]

Also agreed which I think is a bad strategy that jagex have had for a while. They wanna make everything accessible and there’s very little aspirational content being added

Like when inferno was added I bet that motivated a bunch of low level players to get good and give them a goal to achieve one day

[obsidian venture]

It’s just the lack of content as of late. Once you hit end game, there’s few paths left unless you just want to improve at content. You either become a clogger, do speeds or make an iron

In this case, I think anyone in general regardless of total can rightfully complain about no updates to main game content besides sailing and brutus. For the most part, maxing is still not that common so people don’t really care to skill outside basic needs

[gaunt minnow]

Again, the total thing was hyperbole

But I look at it from an iron perspective, unless you’ve literally completed everything max gear, pets, CAs then there’s still a bunch of content to do

And how many people complaining actually have all that

And if you genuinely don’t enjoy any of that stuff then maybe this game just isn’t for you

[obsidian venture]

Right but is it fun content to do or boring slop. I’m not Gm either as it offers nothing besides speeds basically

Max gear on an iron is something sure. For mains it’s irrelevant as it’s just potting

[gaunt minnow]

Fun is subjective, I had fun maxing my iron and doing 800 toas for shadow etc

[obsidian venture]

Clues, maxing, clogging and speeds are all side things really

It is subjective yes

There’s too much content to do overall sure but a lot of it isn’t remotely interesting to the avg player

For folks that dabble in different content, do you go for the green log or do you go for a qol upgrade (if applicable)

[gaunt minnow]

Yeah I think those players would have a lot more fun playing Fortnite or league of legends, and I don’t think they’re valid to criticise and pressure jagex when there’s more content and players than ever

[obsidian venture]

To some degree sure

But criticism is very valid if it’s based on current trends

[gaunt minnow]

I also thing sailing was a mistake and took up way too much dev time

But I think it’s generally well received

[obsidian venture]

If it relates to content then I’d like to know how they do said content before agreeing at least

Mostly well received but it’s gotten a lot of flak for slow fixes

So the last few months have been more negative due to that

[gaunt minnow]

Yeah that is a valid criticism, seems like jagex are more focused on what new thing can we rush out that is marketable vs what is important to fix about existing content to make the overall game better

If adding new content is genuinely more important to the overall game then great but I don’t think that’s true

[tacit pendant]

Sailing opens a lot of doors, but its def hitting 2026s schedule hard playing catch up

Lot of very valuable lessons to be taken should they want to put out another skill

[hard axle]

they shouldn't have hard nerfed sailing land slayer on release

[tacit pendant]

What cannon the birds with dwarf cannon, or hitting things on the shore?

[minor whale]

Hitting on shore

[hard axle]

venom, poison, cannon on shores, hitting on shores

[minor whale]

Entirely disabled which was dumb as fuck

[tacit pendant]

Yeah

[hard axle]

so it was 4 nerfs

for something that capped out at 75-80k/xp an hour

[tacit pendant]

Would have been cool to integrate your boat for some max efficiency on the few tasks it mattered

[hard axle]

assuming infinite tasks

[tacit pendant]

Im hard pressed to even think up a task that matters for heart grind that you can shoot from the shore so idk

[hard axle]

it was 75-80k sailing xp an hour

not regular slayer

[tacit pendant]

Oh youre talking port tasks

[hard axle]

bounty tasks ye

[tacit pendant]

My b unclear

[hard axle]

they have ZERO use cases right now

before, they were meta from 30-66

[tacit pendant]

Im actually waiting for tasks to get better before i finish 99 on main

Theyre the most interesting potentially of the training methods

[chrome lantern]

Have fun finishing 99 in 2040

[tacit pendant]

Actually sailing to different places and like using your brain to route

Imagine

I will, if its my last skill to max

[minor whale]

Jagex don't bungle everything in 2026 challenge (Runefest tickets are blocking access to most people trying to buy them lmao)

[hard axle]

there's so many things they can do to make the tasks better man

[minor whale]

I'm not at all planning on going but I just checked to see if it was true and yeah it says access denied even on my own connection with no VPN and cookies enabled

[hard axle]

rarer parts off-task, higher unique drop rate on task, etc.

or if they dont want to touch any of that and keep it an xp method

[chrome lantern]

Nah miss me with that

[hard axle]

buff the fucking xp

[chrome lantern]

Task-only drop rates are bad enough with slayer

[hard axle]

right now it caps out at like 40k/hr

because the tasks are short and you have to sail back each task

all the mobs are legit pain in the ass to sail to

[chrome lantern]

Task-only enemies/bosses, drop rates, etc. are some of the worst things about Slayer

[hard axle]

the bounty task xp could be doubled or tripled

[chrome lantern]

At least with Sailing you know you can go back and get the same task

[hard axle]

and it'll be worse than Barracuda trials

on god

[chrome lantern]

Honestly it makes more sense for bounty tasks to be high-reward than Barracuda trials

Trials are just a memorization test, they're not actually difficult

[tender harness]

port tasks giving literally any form of reward

other than laughably insulting GP

[chrome lantern]

I don't even mean like gp reward in this case though

I mean xp-wise but also sure drops too

Trials are just bad

[tender harness]

dont get me started on trials

I beg

fucking gwen

absolute piece of shit

[chrome lantern]

They're something cool to do once but then it's just the same exact thing with 0 variance

[tacit pendant]

Trials would have worked fine for 1 and done on times. Not bis xp to 200m

[chrome lantern]

Yeah

[tender harness]

if trials I dont know werent a buggy pile of shit

oops crate broke
oops crates missing
oops we deleted hit boxes
oops we changed hit boxes
oops we removed another crate

[chrome lantern]

The fact that they put one-time rewards on it as well just makes it feel like it would make sense to be a one-and-done thing like Charting too lmao

[tender harness]

Jubbly being an absolute FPS killer

charting had potential for so much more
not hey heres some beer
oops one beer was supposed to be gated to the end of fucking charting

and fixed that

and "shortcuts for speed"

were so egregiously misplaced that they often times were slower

[austere mulch]

Also anchor is so useless, idek why it’s a station outside of thematics

They should let you teleport to your boat, even if it’s not docked, if it’s an anchor down to at least give it some functionality

[tender harness]

anchor is a meme
focus is bad
sailing cape is a worse focus
sailors amulet is actually overpowered for when you get it

[chrome lantern]

Greater teleport focus is the biggest reward from Sailing and its primary purpose is to let you pretend Sailing doesn't exist when trying to do clues that they put way off in oblivion

[restive sapphire]

if you could moor at bosses near the shore like vork/vard it would be kinda cool but they don't even do that
and there's fish ig

[minor whale]

I absolutely thought we'd be able to moor at more places for a few very convenient teleports

But nope, you can only exit your boat safely at like 10 total places

None of them useful for main game stuff, just sailing lmao

[meager flame]

ya its because sailing is a mile wide and an inch deep

i'd have rather just gotten a more focused experience where there was actually depth and a reason for it to be in the game

even if that meant they focused on just a few things

[velvet orchid]

I was hoping sailing would make the clue steps on the island by mos Le harmless less aids but it did not

[tender harness]

sailing is great just ignore that the majority of shit added you cant even visit in the boat right now ignore the fact that most of the places you can moor to are useless outside of sailing

like its actually depressing if you look at the map
mark off what you cant visit
and then stop and ask
what did they actually even add with sailing that has any benefit outside of sailing

[restive sapphire]

dont forget the swmost area is also inaccessible

[tender harness]

yea forgot that

so we "opened up the map" but actually still didnt

[ashen yarrow]

this is like saying the next continent is unavailable because they havent released it yet

[tender harness]

this is literally in the game

unfinished because they rushed sailing

the fucking cursed archipelago is an untextured island

[ashen yarrow]

yes, sailing did not come with all content available on launch, like main game still does not have raids 4 which is coming later

[tender harness]

??? how does raids 4 have anything to do with sailing

apples to oranges

[ashen yarrow]

same logic, you expect sailing to come out with all content with no new releases later on

[tender harness]

?? no?

what the

[chrome lantern]

They released cooking but it's just churning butter and you can't even put it on potatoes yet

Is more like it

[tender harness]

putting something into the game and saying "let me lock it" so you cant sail to fossil island but wait for a year for some dumb fuck reason

[chrome lantern]

Exaggerated obviously

[ashen yarrow]

yep new food items release even now

[thick beacon]

Feel like they did a good job technical side all they have to do is add some content

esp for irons I think there is some solid stuff like trawling already

[tender harness]

they need to I dont know give sailing items a use outside of sailing

[ashen yarrow]

it is true that sailing did not give bis end game items on launch for main game pvm

[tender harness]

dont know what fucking boogeyman you're hallucenating but its not here

[thick beacon]

I personally hope they dont go down sailing cmb endgame gear route

but they might do that noone seems to mind if a entire raid is ship cmb focused

[restive sapphire]

on one hand i can name things with a modiicum of use outside of sailing that came with sailing apart from fish

[minor whale]

It's also true that it was functionally an entirely separate release that impacted almost nothing in the rest of the game

No idea why we're comparing Sailing to a new continent

If "Raids 4" releases and it's missing the final boss or any unique items and also it's taking 2 years of dev time away from anything else, yeah people would say that's shit and unfinished lol

[ashen yarrow]

new fish, new hunter methods, new potions, new slayer mobs, new areas to kill old slayer mobs, new woodcutting and mining training methods

[chrome lantern]

Trawling is basically just "don't do this without 99 fishing/cooking" though

Which isn't really satisfying

[thick beacon]

ive said this before but i dont think ppl really remember how useless a lot of skills were on osrs release

[minor whale]

Oh they absolutely were
Doesn't mean we can't be really annoyed at how shit sailing is compared to what was promised, or that it's at all a "good" release
It functioned and that's the best most people can say about it. It changes nothing for the rest of the game, changes how you train absolutely 0 skills, and delivered a grand total of 3 useful supplies for outside sailing itself.

You've got "better" karambwans, "better" mantas (not as good as hunter meats) and you've got extended stamina potions.

[thick beacon]

i think thats being a bit harsh umbra coral is definitely strong for irons and so is ironwood trees dungeon is not terrible either

i dont really look at main skilling cuz all skills are pretty worthless on there

[minor whale]

Ironwood trees dungeon?

Doesn't it just have a some coal and shit

[restive sapphire]

i dont think we should be using 2005-2008 standards for skill releases for now with how big the team is now

i would say arma brews are pretty useful
and i would def take marlins over hunter meats tbh discounting price
most of the value in the slayer mobs are in loot that makes sailing better bc no one is saying aquanite tendon/belle's folly are good with a straight face

[minor whale]

And like, a spider

[thick beacon]

talking about multi reg nech spot

charred dungeon

[ashen yarrow]

aquanites are similar gp/kill as most other slayer monsters at that requirement. People just dont like mediocre gp/h. Unique items are good mid game items, which again is "useless" to all the people wanting end game gear from sailing

[thick beacon]

feel like they did massive hard part of technically making sailing work. all they gotta do now is just release some islands imo which I feel like will be a lot easier/faster

acquanites are decent ranarr seeds to though

[restive sapphire]

not even about bis gear i feel like there are things where jagex went "we cant too much fun" like medallion not working on fossil island and no mooring points near bosses and it takes months to fix if ever and we're supposed to treat it like actual content

[ashen yarrow]

which bosses did you want moaring point next to? i think only vorkath, araxxor and kraken are close to sea. Unless you expect to sail right into stranglewood/vardovis

[restive sapphire]

im the goat so i would if i could
also kq would be a slight time save

if not then at least let us bomb those rocks so we dont have to go around it

[chrome lantern]

Can't moor there, there's no arbitrary mooring rock

[tender harness]

brother do you not realize there is a dock in the stranglewood

you could oh I dont know. dock a boat AT THAT RED CIRCLE THATS A DOCK

[tawdry folio]

I want more places I can just fish off the side of my boat

[bronze kernel]

Putting an active port where there's a brain control fungus. Brilliant

[tender harness]

yes

[remote ruin]

hey its a brain control vine plant, not a fungus

[kind surge]

to be fair we know of a serum to prevent infection, and at that point they just become regular enemies that you could possibly build a small fortification around the dock

could make it so we bring a recreation of the serum to snowflake and she tells us how to make a bonfire of disinfection at the area

sailing is meant to be for transport so it would be nice for it to have actual time-saving options compared to other teleports

the transport aspect is probably only relevant in the extremely early game before you unlock tps from leveling magic and doing quests

[bronze kernel]

Although I think what's funny is there's a simple metal grate gate blocking entry from the Varlamore side

[meager flame]

i think they just have some kind of mental block when it comes to sailing being here for anything besides 99.9% feeding into more sailing

its really easy to see how you could have player created/repaired docks like the quetzal system in location that you would be happy to do something other than sailing

like other skills or bosses

same way that its really easy to see how they could put tons of stuff on islands that isn't sailing related but requires sailing to get to

they just choose not to so far

[kind surge]

the one elite step at mos le harmless 😭

[bronze kernel]

Imbued rum bottle and an agility shortcut

[true talon]

Anyone seen this? i killed the mage vangaurd and the melee + ranger reset to full hp lol.

[round lintel]

I guess, when we say lack of content isnt really like you completed everything and there's nothing you can do but more like... do I really want to spenf a month in a single place for one item to make another content easier? Type... Im not saying this is bad but at the same time you play to have fun but if you want to have a decent range set up you go to red prison that can take few cgs or a month hating your life, crossbows nowadays are just bad options mainhand, twisted bow can take weeks to months to get one and is not a bad thing as they are powerful but you cant transition from CG, raids or Money bosses to something you enjoy in the middle and feel you made a progress

You grind until you get what you need or enough gp to buy it if playing a main. Thats were there's nothing new... literally Doom is nice, somewhat easy but do you really want to spend your free time to play to just do Doom? Do you enjoy sending 10 CMs a day? Do you enjoy having to send 400-540s toa?

I got to a point were all I was doing on my end game iron was Nex, ToA and some cox here and there, and well as the game is based on RNG spent 2 months without a single meaningful drop just bunch of Lightbearers, a dupe torva body, bunch of Arcane toilet papers, I quit and dropped everything to my main.

I am currently rebuilding from the ground up and that has been more fun than just sending raids everyday.

Sure I miss my tbow, I miss my heart 200 superiors since I started rebuilding and nothing.

[hard axle]

The only people who never run out of content are rebuilders (which doesnt really happen consistently outside of UIMs that wipe and stakers), cloggers, and pet hunters (still only ~120 all pet havers)

[final frigate]

money speeds

but yeah this year has been quite sadge for content

especially for the many who don't particularly care for temp modes

it is what it is just gotta pray the later year stuff hit

[sacred oracle]

I used to depend on a steady influx of new content to mix new ginds with old grinds

Now it's just all old grinds, and I'm getting bored

[final frigate]

well

you specifically do have new grinds to work on

[sacred oracle]

I like logging in and having new content. I wish Jagex would get back to a drip of new content weekly or biweekly instead of months and months between anything.

When I log in now, it's like, hm, which of the grinds I've been chipping away at for years should I get back to

content drought

[restive storm]

very bored

https://klipy.com/gifs/rabbit-cry--k01KQHN15YB09YVF24FN8VH79DW

[true talon]

I agree, my only goals right now is to do chambers till ancestral, corp for ely and orbs from phosani.

It’s much more fun to just start a new account than keep suffering in the end game

[restive storm]

i used to rly like making new accounts, but needed a purpose to do it

like making accounts and progging them to the point i could pk etc

[covert hinge]

New content is cool, but reworking drop system would be cool. Like making it homogeneous? Example like, we have a duplicate prevention at the moons, but a "similar" content exist, like the barrows, but barrows drops doesn't have duplicate prevention. I know now everything can't work the exact same way, but I feel like the drop tables / drop "mechanics" are all over the place

[minor whale]

Yuck, no thank you

[tacit wharf]

plz keep yr gache mech's outta of my non-gache game

[covert hinge]

I don't even play Gache games but alright

I am open to discussion, I would be interested why it would not be a good idea and why some QoL that was made at certain places should not be apply to other places

[inner pelican]

osrs's inconsistencies make it what it is

[tacit wharf]

numerous threads in #1022203837265756231 that have been brought up

[covert hinge]

alright will dive for a read then!

[inner pelican]

like yeah barrows probably wouldn't work the way it does if they made it today, but the huge breadth of items and frequent unique rate give it its own feel

[true talon]

Barrows is rough content if you clogging

[inner pelican]

not to mention its common rune drops can make grinding it a more appealing prospect for the average account

[true talon]

As someone who did over 2k chest for the dh axe

[restive storm]

that suggestion isnt even QOL, its just a straight buff to loot drops and probably cuts grind time down in like 1/5th for most places if not more

[covert hinge]

True enough

I guess I'm just impatient and would like a tad bit less of grind on certain things XD

[carmine junco]

The value proposition of barrows has gone down significantly since it was introduced. So it would make sense to bring the time required for it down some.

[restive storm]

can always just play a main account

[true talon]

Every time I play leauges I feel 5x rate is not enough for drops

[covert hinge]

Yeah always depends what you grind somethings it's plenty enough, sometimes it's something else.

[true talon]

I had to kill like 700 Callisto for a voidwaker hilt

[covert hinge]

o u f

[true talon]

At 30 sec per kill + respawn time

This was almost a main game grind

I’m at 30 nex with no unique and they are 4 mins solo + rp and respawn time

[covert hinge]

Yeahhhhhh

[bronze kernel]

When it comes to dupe protection or pity, I am fine with it being used on either components (Nox Hally, Bludgeon, etc) or untradable upgrades (Vork head).

[chrome lantern]

I mean bludgeon/noxious halberd components are really just the same thing as vestiges now, there's not really a reason to even have the components in the first place and they could've been "invisible rolls" like the vestiges instead of wasting bank space

[carmine junco]

Nox hally and bludgeon aren't an example of dupe protection, they're an different example of bad luck mitigation by breaking up one rare drop into small drops

[chrome lantern]

Yeah vestiges/bludgeon/hally components are drop rate normalization rather than dry protection

[carmine junco]

Yeah, like vestiges

[chrome lantern]

Moves the drop distribution closer to average on both ends

[carmine junco]

Mhm, still good

[chrome lantern]

Also kinda boring though because it gets rid of the chance to spoon stuff

Well, you can still spoon but not as extreme

Like physically impossible 1kc

[carmine junco]

Moons is really the only actual dupe prevention in the game that I can think of? Maybe the toa gems actually

[chrome lantern]

Lumberjack

But most of the examples are really really tiny

Angler as well

[carmine junco]

Yeah, downside is that it shifts the lucky side in as well as the unlucky side

GameCube jona has an interesting video that goes over the various types of bad luck mitigation in the game

And the way they affect the drop rates of the items involved

[chrome lantern]

Ultimately I'm not really a fan of dupe/dry protection tbh

[carmine junco]

Its kind of great to have

[tacit wharf]

its not the type of game that osrs is

[chrome lantern]

I'm not saying that all drop rates in the game make sense to be clear, I just don't think the solution to any form of drop rate is to create dry/dupe protection.

[carmine junco]

That isn't an argument against it, and is a poor example. If something is bad it doesn't have to remain that way

[chrome lantern]

One example of that is that I think it makes more sense to just make nightmare orbs way more common than to add dry/dupe protection on them because they're disproportionately rare for their actual utility

But I don't think we need dry/dupe protection on raids drops or enhanced crystal weapon seeds etc.

[carmine junco]

We probably should though. Looking at something like cox which has a plainly ridiculous drop table, or the people who have gone 2k plus cg without an enhanced.

[tacit wharf]

i guess ill put it a different way, dry/dupe protection is in the spirit of osrs

this game is a grind, and to fundamentally change that grind, it not in the spirit of the last 25 years of the game

[carmine junco]

Yeah, it obviously has an identity as that. It should still be difficult to obtain those things, but it's good if you can limit how unlucky you can be

[chrome lantern]

A good thing about this game is that you can also just completely do everything without ever getting that bofa or tbow

The people who burn hardest on those grinds are the people who refuse to do other things in parallel

And just buying them is always an option too

[carmine junco]

Sure, you can, but it also kind of sucks to be unable to get things that are basically required in many places. And it also is reasonable to make the game playable by people and not just bots or those who play the game for a living

[chrome lantern]

They're not "basically required" for anything

Nothing is except synapses for Yama tbh

[carmine junco]

There is actually a reason why almost every other game has dry protection on things

[tacit wharf]

There is also a very good precedent, that games that do add a pity/dry/dupe protection don't do very well

[carmine junco]

I mean, you could do bandos without a bowfa, I guess, or kree. Or toa without a bowfa, but you're significantly hampered and vastly less effective.

[chrome lantern]

It's neither the best option or the only option

But again, you can also just

Buy it

[carmine junco]

Of course it's not the best or only option, the best is usually the tbow

Sometime the blowpipe

[chrome lantern]

Shadow in your GWD example

[carmine junco]

Sure, if you have hundreds of millions of gp

Bowfa is a fraction the cost to buy and use

[chrome lantern]

Eye is also a very good "bofa skip" item for many things

And is cheaper than bofa and very often better

And a bofa has 0 impact on how well you can obtain it even on an iron

And the cheaper is also including confliction gauntlets and occult

Better than bofa for CoX, ToA, ToB, so many things

On an iron you can get the boots along the way as well

[carmine junco]

Regardless of how much it is a skip, having dry protection doesn't hurt anything but the people who like suffering

[chrome lantern]

It's not about being a "skip" or not

It's about having alternatives

If you don't want to grind 2k cg for an enh

Don't

Even on an iron

And even if you do, it's extremely unlikely you ever get that dry

[obsidian venture]

Grindy game doesn't need everything to catered to folks especially when there are various options

[carmine junco]

Exactly. So why should it matter if it's impossible to go that dry

[chrome lantern]

Sure draw a line at 10x

[meager flame]

tbh

i think that even if you got everything exactly on rate in this game

the grind is still insane

so i dont really think giving people some kind of bad luck mitigation would harm the experience since it wouldn't even be remotely that generous

it feels like one of those things where people just argue back and forth forever but if it really just landed in the game nobody would care a few weeks later

since i imagine they'd probably just start scaling your drop rate with some hidden modifier marginally

maybe wouldn't even tell us how much it does just that it does exist

like just as an example lets say it started helping you at 3x

looking at my like

entire ironmans history

im not sure it would've really changed anything

like maybe i'd have a twisted kit instead of somehow having 2 dusts and no kit lol

but thats really the only thing i can come up with

[chrome lantern]

🥄

[minor whale]

Dry protection is dumb and shouldn't exist
Catering to crybaby irons who sign up to play a game mode where going stupidly dry is a real possibility and then going "wait no I want this drop!" is just so dumb

[carmine junco]

Good input, however, this sucks. Catering to crybaby bitter vets who don't like the idea of change or making the game more fun to play shouldn't be a consideration.

[tacit wharf]

"fun"

[carmine junco]

Yes

You can always expect some nonsense from people who just hate the idea that it's okay for a game to be playable.

[tacit wharf]

game is plenty playable

just gotta know u can walk around the wall, instead of try to walk through it

[meager flame]

tbf that's not really true

if someone decided they wanted a clog for example

there is nothing you can do besides get the drop

[tacit wharf]

then get the drop

[carmine junco]

Sure, if there were other ways to acquire the same thing. Like, there are obviously alternatives but the game is made in such a way as to not invalidate the older items in a lot of cases

[minor whale]

Game that's 15 years old and doing better constantly
"We just want the game to be playable which is why we need to change a core identity of the game"

[tacit wharf]

same way with " i want to better my life", then go do it

[meager flame]

its not the core identity though lol in reality it would likely change nothing

[minor whale]

There's plenty of ways to get the item you want
If you don't like grinding it out you can deiron and purchase the item, which has a guarantee drop rate of 1/1

[meager flame]

you'd get those one off guys that go more dry than i've ever gone for any item despite having finished almost everything

a little less sad

it would have virtually no impact

[chrome lantern]

Isn't that explicitly entirely the purpose of the collection log?

[carmine junco]

This is untrue, there is one way to get an item. Just because you like playing moneyscape shouldn't matter.

[minor whale]

You can apply this to everything in every game.
"what if someone wants a tbow every raid, nothing they can do except hope they get lucky :/"

[meager flame]

ya but im talking about reasonable stuff here like

this guy went for a dwh or whatever and he's 80k shamans in the hole

[minor whale]

Oh really?
I can get the drop or I can buy it from someone who did.
You not liking the gamemode you chose doesn't mean change the game for the majority of players lol

[meager flame]

obviously this is nuts and nobody will ever top his experience

theres really no big deal about helping that situation out

[minor whale]

Yeah that sucks, keep grinding and he'll get it or he can just take the L and move on to something else

[tacit wharf]

or just go get elder

[carmine junco]

Sure. Sounds fun to me I guess. Have fun grinding vorkath or whatever it is you people do

Or we can make it so that the various pieces of content in the game are both fun and achievable.

Idk. One of the two I guess

[meager flame]

i mean i would say its almost all achieveable theres a few things that i wouldn't say that about like obvious 3rd age clogs

because like i said i have almost everything and i've never managed to pull a dry streak like that out its statistically very unlikely

[carmine junco]

Yeah things like 3rd age are mostly just cosmetic/bragging items

[minor whale]

The game has existed and is performing extremely well.
If you don't like the gamemode you chose, simply stop playing it.

[carmine junco]

I don't think those need any sort of protection

[meager flame]

its really more about targeting the really crazy shit that happens to a handful of people

[carmine junco]

You seem to think this is because I'm upset about a dry streak or something

[tacit wharf]

people like to confuse a want and a need, and it shows

[chrome lantern]

Nono you don't get it, it's clearly "unplayable"

[minor whale]

No, I have no idea what your account is like nor what grinds you've done.
As a whole though, JMods have never even hinted at making dry protection be a thing outside of extremely extremely niche situations and very mid game content

[chrome lantern]

I'm over 5x dry on Masori chaps on my iron and I don't want dry protection or dupe protection for it

[meager flame]

i just think if we're being honest about it there is a line where its not fun and its not good for the person playing the game and where that line is might be subjective

[minor whale]

Dupe protection is even dumber

[meager flame]

but if they were to trim some of the end of that bell curve off it would be fine

[carmine junco]

Thanks for your bad opinion.

[tacit wharf]

i mean...

[carmine junco]

So Yama is mid game and niche I guess

[meager flame]

because the way drops in this game work is ultimately flawed i think if you were looking at it from an enjoyment factor and people just having fun

[minor whale]

Do you have any opinions that aren't just "Please make the game easier for the poor irons who NEED these drops to make the game playable!"

[meager flame]

theres a low chance that someone just gets brutally destroyed by rng to an unreasonable degree

and that just isn't great

[carmine junco]

Yes, obviously. And that's not even what I'm saying, so you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

[meager flame]

its fine when its reasonably unlucky or lucky thats entertaining

there should just be a ceiling so it doesn't get out of hand

[carmine junco]

Having some bad luck mitigation in the game is fine and good is what my opinion is

[tacit wharf]

wait yr complaining about going dry at yama?

[carmine junco]

Not that it should trivialize the grinds, not that it should remove the luck

[tacit wharf]

a boss that allready has a form of dryness protection?

[carmine junco]

What? No, I was saying that Yama is an example of dry protection

[meager flame]

tbf though im not sure how many people would want a bad luck protection that does what im talking about to begin with though

they'd probably like the idea knowing they were safe from ever going 10x on something but lol

they'd be a lot less excited knowing that they likely never engage with it to begin with

[carmine junco]

Yama is actually a really good example of drop rates

You can get lucky with the items, and even unlucky can get the armor from shards. It doesn't give you the clog that way so it still satisfies those who want those to be harder.

The lockbox drop rates are an incentive to duo the fight and overall make the grind faster in duo.

It's a pretty good system there

And if you're one of the top gamers I guess you can do the acquisition contracts

[jagged marsh]

Yama is a good loot table, they should do more of those instead of dt2 tables

[sacred oracle]

[obsidian venture]

Yama is midgame tho

It shouldn’t have had the whole shard thing and most people agree, even mains, that it should have been untradeable

Game revolves itself around rng and yes going dry can suck but that’s the gamble

You will be spooned, you will go on rate and you will go dry. That’s the beauty of it

Trying to stop the dry factor would make it kind of dull.

[carmine junco]

It doesn't, though. It mitigates it. That's the point

[obsidian venture]

Like ok sure gg on your item which we knew you would get after being x dry

[carmine junco]

You can and still do go dry

[sacred oracle]

yama is a good example of how to introduce a new item into the game that barely holds on to its value because it's too easy to get and there are oathplate shards everywhere, while simultaneously cratering the value of torva which it turned out to be mostly better than despite being much less time to clog

[minor whale]

Especially when the only thing that's holding you back from the item is your own refusal to de-iron and lose that "prestige"
If your mental health is being affected by going dry you gotta recognize you need to take steps to negate that, whether it's move on to different content or swapping to the gamemode where you can just buy the item

[obsidian venture]

No point in mitigating dry spells is all

[sacred oracle]

i don't want more situations like yama at all personally

[thick beacon]

I dont think its entirely dry protection on yama. I think its more so how easy yama ended up being and how strong oathplate ended up being

[obsidian venture]

Yama was bad for balance

[minor whale]

Yama's design philosophy for drops is probably the worst design in the game

[meager flame]

its because the shards are tradable

[thick beacon]

doom has a lot of same problems imo as yama without dry protection

[obsidian venture]

It introduced something which caused a dramatic impact on melee gear and grinds for irons

[carmine junco]

If you hate fun, sure. Yama is one of the best in the game.

[minor whale]

Easy to get, dry protection, better than the prior MUCH longer to get bis

[meager flame]

that should've been a reward exclusively for the people that stuck with the content

but instead you can sell the shards too

they really blew it lol

[obsidian venture]

It’s sleeper and trying to argue with what’s fun is kinda ie

[minor whale]

Kanbaru "fun" isn't just "get best drops as quickly as possible"

[obsidian venture]

You telling what’s fun doesn’t make it fun automatically

[carmine junco]

No, fun is making progress

[sacred oracle]

your version of fun sounds basically like just making the game easier for irons

[obsidian venture]

Kinda cooked

[sacred oracle]

i disagree that sounds fun

[minor whale]

Yup

[sacred oracle]

that just sounds like making the game a lot worse to benefit a minority of a minority of it

but hey, your mileage may vary

[obsidian venture]

Tldr wants a Mickey Mouse game

[carmine junco]

Lol

[minor whale]

Fun to you literally just seems, from the myriad conversations I've seen, "how can we make this easier for people"

[carmine junco]

Fun to you seems to be, what?

What do you even like about this game, you only ever seem to hate things

[minor whale]

Achieving goals without the game holding my hand and pitying me

[carmine junco]

Great, sounds like a time

[minor whale]

I greatly enjoy the game

[obsidian venture]

We enjoy game balance

[carmine junco]

You do not, demonstrably

[obsidian venture]

Different from what you think

We do but you might be blind to it which is ok

[carmine junco]

It's hard to believe anyone who talks in here does

[minor whale]

I think it's probably the best game I've ever played.
I don't want it changed for people who complain that it's too hard every time something that takes more than 10 hours to do exists

I'm not going to glaze Jagex lately

The game is fantastic

[sacred oracle]

i don't think saying everyone who disagrees with you must not be enjoying the game is going to be a winning argument

[minor whale]

Doesn't mean Jagex has been doing fantastic for the past 6 months

[obsidian venture]

You want Mickey Mouse clubhouse and we want stuff that makes sense and supports what Jagex currently wants or has talked about

Jagex has a lot of faults when it comes to balance sure

[carmine junco]

This is not about them not agreeing with me, it's about how they talk about every aspect of the game

[obsidian venture]

But trying to mitigate the rng factor is not the core of osrs and shouldn’t me

We talk from experience

[sacred oracle]

i think negative comments tend to stand out more than positive ones, and people are quicker to talk about things they want to change than things they enjoy

[carmine junco]

I just find it hard to believe people actually enjoy playing this game from how they talk about it

Like. I do enjoy it, which is why I play it

[sacred oracle]

i enjoy a lot of aspects of the game, but i complain about it constantly

i'm a gamer

it's kind of what we do

[carmine junco]

If I had so much to complain about I simply wouldn't be playing it

[thick beacon]

i think theres diffrent ways they can go about it. I really dont like approach of just making content easier or have very little gatekeeping on skill checks for drops. even new raid they arent gona have long term perma wipes like tob

[carmine junco]

Take my money elsewhere

[sacred oracle]

people who are passionate about things have a lot of opinions about them

[minor whale]

People complaining about things they enjoy being actively made worse or neglected? Who could comprehend this?

[sacred oracle]

and people who love a thing are the quickest to become quite vocal against changes to it they don't like

if i didn't love the game, i wouldn't complain about it

i'd just shrug and play it or not

but i do love the game, so that's not the case

[meager flame]

i just think its interesting how so many people are like

not really able to admit when some parts of the thing they like are definitely not good

[hasty shard]

i have no context of the conversation but i want to imply i sent a message prior to leagues coming out about how they just refuse to fix bugs

lo and behold

[meager flame]

like this conversation is a good example i think most of us would agree that the variation in dry or lucky is fun and part of the game

but also we should be able to admit that it can go too far

its just unlikely to happen

[obsidian venture]

It’s not a hard concept. We love the game and want it to be better. We might not agree but that’s ok. Trying to argue what’s fun though it’s kinda low iq as it varies for everyone

[chrome lantern]

Honorable mention to, "Don't worry, contracts won't be like Awakener's orbs!" then making a system that's arguably worse and still actively discourages attempting challenging content

[sacred oracle]

i still can't believe that

it was so funny/frustrating at the time

it's exactly like the orbs!

[meager flame]

i just cant believe they lied like that

like wtf did they think we were going to say when it became obvious in less than a week

lmao

[sacred oracle]

they really learned the wrong lesson from awakener's orb

i think they got it this time tho

people were So Mad

[chrome lantern]

I just went back to read blogs

[meager flame]

like i really think they were way too confident in that bs lol

[chrome lantern]

It does seem like the wording they used

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Update:Yama,_the_Master_of_Pacts:_Out_Today

[sacred oracle]

i don't really mind the orb system that much personally, but i thought it was funny they did the same thing again

[chrome lantern]

This system does share some similarities to the Awakener Orb system, but differ in a number of ways. Contracts for cosmetics are target-farmable and will likely end up much cheaper than Orbs, while rarer Contracts will guarantee some kind of tradeable reward that will make them more than worth the initial cost, meaning it doesn't feel like a waste to keep coming back.
This verbage doesn't explicitly say it but I know they did say, "Don't worry, we fixed orbs" somewhere on a stream or something

[meager flame]

i honestly think they thought we were all just wrong in our complaints

and thought we would love it when they did it again

[carmine junco]

Contracts are certainly not the best part of Yama

[chrome lantern]

I mean we know exactly where it comes from

[meager flame]

and it turned out to nobody's surprise that we actually didnt like it lmao

[sacred oracle]

or rather, i don't like the orb system, but i assumed it's the sort of thing that people who are actually good at the game shouldn't mind