game-update

[meager flame]

because the math is so in your favor that there is no reasonable alternative

but people just

go crazy if they die lol

[restive storm]

no, you should partake in the content, prepare then not die out there

cuz you shouldnt really be dying in the wildy rn anyway

[languid ravine]

its easier to make custom gamemodes ontop of an existing game than it is to make one from scratch. thats a huge benefit sandbox games like runescape have, to not capitalise on it would be absurd

[ashen yarrow]

the new crush special weapon would replace voidwaker in a lot of content too. voidwaker would only be used in places where traditional melee weapons cannot hit

[winged mantle]

In the same way they've added bosses to help learn the game like scurrius, titans, huey etc. they need shit for learning real pking

[meager flame]

i just dont even know where the people come from that hate dying in video games to the degree that they do

but its always like this

[winged mantle]

I would love a boss that's an uber dt2 pker boss foght

[languid ravine]

its like arguing why does construction exist when we could play the sims

[meager flame]

they die for nothing and you know they're actually seething irl

[languid ravine]

the limiting factor for osrs is that its a old game with spageti code. if the game was modernised it wouldnt have any restriction for devs to go wild

[meager flame]

its always like this though in any game thats mostly pve but has some optional pvp

[winged mantle]

Also why is there no pking bounties? Kill x amount of players? Loot x amount of key values, kill with x weapon in this location rotation on aa timer. Just more ways to incentivise pking at locations for rewards

[meager flame]

they get tempted into pvp or maybe get like one quest that gets them involved in it for half an hour once

and then they just act like its the greatest offense of all time and have a meltdown

[languid ravine]

games with only pvp also have ppl who cry about just about anything

[restive siren]

at which bosses does the kisten replace vw?

[meager flame]

probably pnm

i didnt actually check but like

if it doesn't there it would be crazy

[winged mantle]

Doesn't replace but it does give alt sub webs

[restive siren]

yeah sure at pnm but he said "in a lot of content"

[languid ravine]

but osrs pve is way too safe, if u still lost ur items from pve deaths then u would have better onboarding to pvp for sure

[restive siren]

vw is kinda not used in most content already

[ashen yarrow]

it wouldnt 100% replace voidwaker but it would be alternative in places where you can actually hit bosses since it is better average damage than voidwaker if it successfully rolls 3 times

[meager flame]

does gearscape actually have the crush spec weapon already

[winged mantle]

People would never bring any gear ever

[restive storm]

here is my fundamental pic of the biggest problem with the wildy currently

[carmine junco]

It would be kind of insane if you lost pve gear these days, obviously.

[meager flame]

they usually add in stuff once we know how it works

[restive storm]

and the bottom is the pvmers

[winged mantle]

Wym I'm the rabbit

[obsidian venture]

[meager flame]

this is actually true about pvm and losing gear

[restive storm]

good news you're now a top dawg

[meager flame]

as someone that played a lot with the old death mechanics the play was always to basically 3 item and then manage your risk

and once in awhile you'd see some dummy lose 6 months of his life on a dc

but as a sane individual you'd never be in that situation because you're smarter than that at the bank

[winged mantle]

I hated the old system

[meager flame]

thats actually a big reason people used to flex their items when skilling

[winged mantle]

I didn't know foxes like carrots

[meager flame]

they could've just worn nothing to be efficient but it was the only time they could wear their cool stuff and not lose it lol

[restive siren]

i mean its usecases have definitely dropped off, where is it actual bis, pnm, high invo toa, corp, kbd?

[south void]

Only place I use the VW on my main is for corp, it's the only reason I kept it.

[languid ravine]

lvl 3 skillers and dark wizards devalued by safe deaths

[winged mantle]

Vw for nex, toa + any place I'm using a 1 handed mainhand wep

[meager flame]

i mean i use my vw at pnm corp toa nex i guess because no zcb

[obsidian venture]

Cox and it’s just consistent on things where you could use bclaws

[meager flame]

but tbf to the vw

even if it weren't bis anywhere a lot of people would still use it for everything

[restive storm]

since the invention of the pj timer they've been converted to herbivores

[meager flame]

because its really good even when its not the best a lot of the time

[winged mantle]

Mmm

[slow acorn]

not specifically, engines don't let you do whatever you want

[winged mantle]

Would love to see what each animal means and how to fix their new food source

[south void]

Funny enough you say that about foxes and carrots, but my dog loves carrots 🙂 haha

[slow acorn]

just look at the poh, they can barely touch it without breaking half of it

[meager flame]

a lot of the spec weapon stuff is kind of a meme

like we'll bring the best one but its not even the best by much of a margin at all

[obsidian venture]

I might be the fox in that ngl

[languid ravine]

thats cos the code is extremely old and spageti

[meager flame]

thats why i wasn't even sure we should even get the crush spec weapon

its kinda weird that we're just going to have a million flavors of almost the same spec weapon for damage

[languid ravine]

if u had a next gen engine u would have basically no issue pumping out content

[obsidian venture]

I mean it’s fine for a crush spec to exist

Or to be made

[meager flame]

yeah its not going to break the game or anything

but i kinda wish they could've done something more interesting

[obsidian venture]

I think it is interesting

What crush spec exists

Besides maybe ursine? If that counts

[south void]

I don't find it weird having multiple options from different sources that do the same conceptual thing. If anything, it allows players to choose what content they want to engage with. Even if we had 5 different pairs of burning claws, I'd choose the one that looked better. If we had burning claws, frost claws, poison claws, disease claws, and fart dust claws I'd still choose the one that I enjoyed more.

[meager flame]

interesting as in actually does something we can't already do

[restive storm]

DWH

[obsidian venture]

But it does if you look at the effect + passive

[meager flame]

we have plenty of weapons that just produce damage for 50% spec

[obsidian venture]

And maul but both def reducing

[analog crow]

You really are the left click bury bone guy 2.0

[south void]

Dragon warhammer, elder maul are the two crush specs (aside from dragon mace spec crush).

[restive storm]

look man i been here WAY before that guy has

[obsidian venture]

Ah right d mace

[brisk hill]

Because it’s a fundamental issue to the wild lol

[restive storm]

i initially was in sailing disc when that would turn into pvpcord on a bi-weekly basis

[meager flame]

like elder maul or zcb is a more interesting decision than sweating the 1% damage difference between 3 spec weapons that almost do the same damage

[restive storm]

funnily enough most of them agreed w/ me

[obsidian venture]

I forgot what that does tho

[brisk hill]

Most of you (respectfully) are anti wildy

With that in mind, what sense does it make that a pker can’t pj another pker that is attacking a pvm defenseless iron omfg

It doesn’t!

[restive storm]

this is why i dont really understand why most of them root against their own interest... "we want more pker v pker activity" - "GOD no don't remove the pj timer"

[winged mantle]

Idm if the pj timer gets removed

[meager flame]

tbf i really hate getting pjed and singles teams because i used to pk

[brisk hill]

No one is getting fall ins on your unskulled craw bow ether beast

Carry on & let the pkers pk

[meager flame]

they'd just show up and be super annoying and not really get kills but sort of harass you a bit

[restive storm]

then like ok obv your just gonna get farmed as a pvmer cuz none of the pkers can hit each other lol

[ashen yarrow]

it is there so pkers cannot tag team other pkers pretty much. while also allowing escapes for both pkers and pvmers without someone else being able to stop it

[meager flame]

and you'd leave normally unless they were giga ass because you knew you weren't about to win 4 1v1s back to back

[brisk hill]

Yeah I’m aware of why they added it. But based on metrics alone (ppl in singles) it flopped bad

So revert

[meager flame]

although once in awhile you'd get a real noob team to attack you like that and you could kill them all

[restive storm]

right... but this is exactly why its dead, cuz now every1 just freezes and logs out lol

[meager flame]

but lol

that was pretty rare

[restive storm]

and equally pkers cant fight each other so half the time they dont even bother cuz they know the others just gonna log

[brisk hill]

Imagine a food chain where the bigger fish were prevented from eating the littler fish

[meager flame]

that's why i always want them to make multi content instead of figuring out how to make singles actually more multi

[brisk hill]

What happens to the food chain?

The whole thing creates bloat at the bottom

That’s why irons feel like they’re the victims of wildy

[restive storm]

singles wildy was still alive when the best money makers there were black chinchompas, and green dragons... now theres like 5 extra money makers like revs/wildy agil/still black chins/green drags, and nobody pks there lol

[brisk hill]

They kinda are (you limited yourself, gl beast)

[south void]

As a person who opts out of the wilderness, I'd never step foot into multi with the expectation of living.

As a person who occasionally wants to try singles content, I still expect to die but I also don't bring more than a 500k pvm setup.

[languid ravine]

ppl dont want PJmanmode cos they might have to actually die miserably

but for me the adrenaline pump is the whole point

[ashen yarrow]

allowing pjing just makes it annoying for solo players in singles when teams tag team them there

[restive storm]

solo players in singles still whine constantly.... look @ what we been d ealing with all day lol

and its like impossible to die now, you'll never make solo players happy out there

[languid ravine]

solo should suffer in a MMO

[south void]

I use the "you die at this pvm content and max amount you lose is a 500k death fee" type of understanding when walking into the wilderness. If people all walked into it with that mindframe it wouldn't be so bad. It's apples to apples.

[restive storm]

its pointless trying

[brisk hill]

You mean it’s disadvantageous to play an MMO solo?

Wow!

[restive storm]

if "solo" players loved the wilderness as singles, they'd be there currently. Clearly they dont love it like that lol

[ashen yarrow]

so whole wilderness is only for clans and large teams

[languid ravine]

in most pvp games if u bring even 1 buddy and make a duo, u are way more than 2x stronger

[brisk hill]

Teams at least, that’s why you could pj for 17 years

Mind blowing, I know!

[restive storm]

iits for everyone, clans/larger teams will eventually dominate, and solo players should not be expecting to compete against them. They should however still have access to the content

the whole "solo player" argument dies when you make it singles+ and its literally more dead than ever lol

[south void]

Yes, I'd like to be offered the option to choose to walk into multi or not, expecting to die. If they removed access of multi from accounts that weren't in a fc or clan it would be unfair.

[brisk hill]

I can see where we are going.
Let’s just get it out in the open:
PvP is not fair & never will be

[languid ravine]

IDK how feasible it is for osrs but ive played pvp games that actually make it a disadvantage to zerg

[meager flame]

tbf one of the bigger problems is that those solo players dont even go to the wild now

like

if i were to pk like i previously did but it was 2026

[brisk hill]

You mean the streamer created wilderness? I wonder why

[restive storm]

after asking for the pj timer the entire time... YES this is my point

[meager flame]

i'd be on a pvp world at the ge or a bank chest somewhere

or maybe some bh

[restive storm]

"id go to the wildy if it was fair" gets "fair" and still doesnt go

meanwhile we destroyed the community that existed there before

for the sake of trying to please those people

[brisk hill]

& they don’t even engage lol

hurts brain

[south void]

Usually the more restrictions you place on content the less it gets engaged.

[tacit pendant]

Emirs arena rework, with a 2v2 mode pls

[languid ravine]

usually you need stuff like player collision so that zergs cant get around easily and get destroyed in killboxes/funnels. would prob be painful to have in osrs tho

[ashen yarrow]

wont work need option to 1v2 for it to be same

[meager flame]

i just think they kind of solved the solo pvp guys out of being in the wilderness a lot of the time in the first place

[restive storm]

they already killed singles, id rather they not take out whats left of multi too trying to make it fair for the solo player running around multi

[brisk hill]

I’d argue the fact that you can dd on ppl makes it an even bigger advantage for who may be fighting down

[languid ravine]

instead of DDing u make one big conga line

yea for clumps

[meager flame]

pvp worlds just made it so much more convenient to get fights

[brisk hill]

1 style of fights ye

No hunt

[restive storm]

yeah i mean pvp worlds are also dead

thats a totally different style of pking too

[tacit pendant]

Nh bh crater also

[brisk hill]

Manufactured fights are boring. That’s kinda why you don’t see clans using clan wars portals & only fighting in the wilderness lol

[meager flame]

ya but it all used to be under the same roof

until jagex started moving people out of the wild

[restive storm]

right but the NHers weren't really running around in BH worlds outside of like

a few people tryina grief the bh noobs

(i was definitely one of those people)

[tacit pendant]

Pvp worlds are sick. If they could full restart it should have been only wildy or only pvp worlds. The split hurts everything

[meager flame]

ya i wish it could go back to everyone being in the wild

[restive storm]

we just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one man lol, i think i mightve gone to pvp worlds like once since they came in the game

[meager flame]

i think its better that way because you see everything happening and might go out of your comfort zone and cross over into different stuff

[restive storm]

and it was like 1/2 luring bots and then just ppl venge fighting

[languid ravine]

or best of both worlds, have 20 worlds for the wilderness 😎

[south void]

I tell our clan members all the time "Don't cross the wilderness ditch to pickup those items the lurers drop."

A line of items from the GE to the ditch should indicate you are being lured to die once you cross.

And yet.....I have clan chat messages of people rushing out there dying in 50m all the way to 1.5b in gear trying to pickup rune items and a dfs.

Sometimes, people just have to learn the hard way after being told countless times.

At the end of the day, when you cross that ditch you should understand you will die.

[restive storm]

you can do this as well, but at the same time with the way it is rn, what you're essentially gonna reduce it down to where every rev cave on wildy worlds is w304 and you're just gonna be spam fighting sweats all day everyday

[brisk hill]

Lmk when those ppl are online pls & ty

[restive storm]

so while itd be better than it is now, idk for how long itd work

[tacit pendant]

They make for some of the best content in the game. C engineers whole career is based on pvp worlds existence. But id rather they not exist overall. I would be fine if wildy wasnt a thing and pvp worlds were the main place but thats talking massive fuckin hypotheticals that arent even practical to discuss

[meager flame]

idk how they even decided on pvp worlds

[brisk hill]

It’s pretty practical. Game is ran by folks who tremble when they lose black d hide or msb’s

[languid ravine]

pvp worlds are literally like, its funny to fight in places that u normally cant

[meager flame]

i mean low key some crazy shit happens on them once in awhile

[dire mango]

We need PvP worlds for Port Khazard to smuggle pnecks into more content.

[tacit pendant]

I want to be clear though id prefer not having pvp worlds, but i can see the appeal in some situations

[meager flame]

but for the most part they're basically the most expensive edgeville simulator jagex ever thought of for themselves

[restive storm]

i guess, but you're like needing to arbitrarily put a 2b bounty on your own head in order to make people go anywhere outside of the GE in pvp worlds

which kinda kills that content for 99.999999% of the game

[brisk hill]

I agree there’s too many options & PvP should be limited to wildy. IMO they should try to combine the mini games that are intended for Learning PvP into 1. & then have the wildy as your proving ground

[meager flame]

tbh i think a safe pvp world would be a super interesting experiment from jagex

just to see how players react to being able to die to other players and lose nothing

[restive storm]

honestly might be something to this.... for example like, who is out here doin soul wars

lol

[tacit pendant]

I would be on board to poll removal of pvp worlds

[brisk hill]

Not saying get rid of castle wars ppl just afk that.
But clan wars lms & emir’s arena all seem redundant when you can just slap them all into 1 place

[restive storm]

if we had to keep 1 id honestly vote to keep castle wars

[meager flame]

i actually think it would be hilarious because you'd have people get into super petty fights over random slayer spots or whatever

for no reason

[restive storm]

just cuz its so old

[brisk hill]

No, they’d just tele lol

Gear fear is so real

Irons don’t wanna lose precious black d hide

You think ppl will skull on a slayer task?

[restive storm]

he was saying safe, like you dont lose your stuff i think

[meager flame]

thats why i said a safe pvp world

[brisk hill]

Oh fair

[restive storm]

but literally nobody would do that cuz why would you

[brisk hill]

Yea

[meager flame]

you dont lose anything people just get into a petty off

[brisk hill]

Dead on arrival lol

[tacit wharf]

i got over 100 in the bank, i good to go

[meager flame]

lmao i honestly think a lot of people would go there for the novelty of it

[brisk hill]

My iron man had return sets for days

You wanna rag me in rev caves? Gl

[restive storm]

i think this is the line of thinking that brought us PVP arena etc...

nobody would use that lol

[tacit wharf]

naw, not on that journey just yet

[meager flame]

it would be like world pvp in wow more than anything i think

[brisk hill]

Not you specifically lol, just vaguely / in general

[meager flame]

a lot of people just would chill on the worlds and not fight each other but once in awhile

[restive storm]

like 99% of people in WoW despise Wpvp

[meager flame]

people would get toxic and it would be funny

[restive storm]

i dont think ur thinkin this through at all

nobody would even login the world lol

[meager flame]

nah i am it would have to be like one world but some people would do it just because like

haven't you ever just wanted to kill the guy to take his crab spot

[languid ravine]

thats DMM

[carmine junco]

Of course, the only reason people log in to pvp worlds are money fights or irons using blighted supplies or something.

[brisk hill]

Bro didn’t pay attention to leagues nor dmm

No, ppl don’t like that shit

[restive storm]

yeah youre basically describing dmm but worse

[brisk hill]

😂 😂

[carmine junco]

Why would people log in to a pvp world where it's just to have fun

[meager flame]

league wilderness actually is funny like that

dmm is different because people stress about their stuff

[brisk hill]

Kk lol

[meager flame]

but leagues are very similar

at least when you pick wild

[brisk hill]

“Why are you wasting my time you don’t even get loot!” You must’ve missed all those posts l0l

[tacit pendant]

Idk get rid of emirs arena and pvp worlds. Add tribrid bh crater. Build from there?

[meager flame]

thats the point of it

[brisk hill]

Dead on arrival

[meager flame]

you make those people so mad and its all the loot you could ever need

[restive storm]

but like if they were getting mad, why would they be in the world in the first place

[tacit pendant]

Leagues in general prove that people will do shit if its fun enough lol

[south void]

This was me in dmm. I only died twice but I still threw out the "Why not chop your own 100 magic logs, this is insane, at least let me get 99 wcing and you can have these for free" lmao

[meager flame]

i think a lot of people wouldn't which is why you probably would not launch 20 of those worlds together

but i think there would be enough people for 1 world that want to experience the comedy

and the people trying to use blighted supplies for everything

[brisk hill]

Yeah fella respectfully, ppl hate PvP enough already & what you’re creating is a rag/griefer praadise world

[tacit pendant]

Ill just say. Even if the current proposals arent perfect im really glad jagex is doing literally anything with pvp rn and they are atleast looking at it

[brisk hill]

Pls for the love of god no lol

[restive storm]

are they actually doing anything though?

like we're getting no content, nor are we even being told we might get content soon

just like misc minigame changes

[brisk hill]

Unfortunate. Back in the hay day clans would compete over silly quest progression areas. One I can think of being underground pass. Sad to see how far we’ve come

[tacit pendant]

I mean look man im with you just let me cope 😭 im just saying its good its not 100% off their radar in 2026

[carmine junco]

You think it will pass a poll as is? It seem like maybe the changes to item loss in the wildy is meant to maybe make it a bit less of a negative experience overall, which might help with polling new additions to the area. You seem to both want changes and also not want them to touch it.

[restive storm]

yeah i mean im sure thatll pass cuz its basically just preventing noobs from losing stuff they didnt read that they'd lose, but as far as actual pking goes? now we're just gonna be fighting void raggers with like arkan blades dcb and treads +1

im gonna pass on that one

[meager flame]

i dont even think thats a poll question

i think they said they were doing integrity changes

[carmine junco]

It's not, but you didn't read my post

[restive storm]

lms i know was integrity, was the parch thing integrity as well?

[tacit pendant]

You think raggers will risk the 500k void lol

[brisk hill]

Because there are fundamental building blocks that make PvP in osrs, PvP in osrs.
Changing those is what we don’t want chanced.
What we’d like changed is content to engage with

[tacit pendant]

Youre getting mixed hide bud and youre gonna like it!

[brisk hill]

Idk how that’s not clear

[meager flame]

i think so but honestly

[carmine junco]

It was because all pvp updates will not pass polls as everyone hates it

[meager flame]

they should just go all the way

[restive storm]

fighting 126s in void/quiver/ma2/treads/dcb etc and they risk like 3m.... yeah thats basically ragging as far as mains go rn lol

[meager flame]

get rid of parchment and just have people have to repair their untradables from the start

[restive storm]

ahh fair

[meager flame]

that way if you pk someone with any of that stuff you get something

[carmine junco]

Did not get rid of parchment, you now have to apply it once

[meager flame]

and nobody has an incident with their infernal capes

ya im saying they should get rid of it

[tacit pendant]

Yeahhh, yeah

[meager flame]

and just have items work like that by default if they're untradable

[tacit pendant]

When your bank is 5b couple mil is fuckin pennies

[restive storm]

i actually logged in today, had more than i thought or items went up

its like 16b or so now

[tacit pendant]

The item on death changes are good, simplifying shit is fine

[restive storm]

been so long i opened "old school" client and got told the java client is no longer active

[tacit pendant]

Lmao

[restive storm]

i was actually tempted to hit the bridge for a little til i realized itd cost me like 30m to sit there for an hour get bored and leave

[hard axle]

honestly, just 10x the fee if its not trouver'd

[meager flame]

they probably could for some items

[tacit pendant]

Ngl thought bout binning a tbow and sitting on bonds for leagues but im too impatient

Guessing 17miller peak

[hard axle]

generally, bond prices spike right before leagues, not after

[restive storm]

omg... i forgot leagues still aint even here yet

[tacit pendant]

You know what i mean rat

[restive storm]

this content drought gonna hit like a 8-9 month pace thats insane lol

[hard axle]

ye ye

[meager flame]

yeah

[brisk hill]

https://tenor.com/view/simpsons-homer-bart-lisa-join-us-gif-13066208

THe pkers

[meager flame]

especially since we got that little bit of info on when they were maybe thinking about putting out that sweep up blog

[restive storm]

bro fr like... i felt this way when i stopped pking the first time around after the pj timer, then i had time to max 2 accounts

[meager flame]

not even kidding i think we're just waiting for august

[restive storm]

now im on the pvmer side of it, and im like my GOD now they forgot about them too

[tacit pendant]

Oh but well get a cheap heart and maybe a new slash dps weapon thats pvp content surely surely surely

[brisk hill]

Maybe they’ve caught on that pvm in safe zones is the real rwt issue & they’re about to integrity change remove them

[meager flame]

the blogs are our content for the future

[tacit pendant]

If that angel boss is fun and they make the heart divine it might be ok money for 12 hours

[meager flame]

we're gonna go to war for the next raid blog soon

[restive storm]

what i dont get is that PvP content is at least replayable, whereas cow boss is like.. 3 hours of content and then nothing lol

[meager flame]

thats basically the content until august

which is insane but lol

they just aren't releasing updates its so bad

[brisk hill]

Pvm content so boring man. I hated grinding duke for ancient staff upgrade

[restive storm]

blogs being the content updates is pretty brutal

[tacit pendant]

Yeah we get angel and maggot king in 2026

[restive storm]

cant even say i bothered to do it

[tacit pendant]

Maybe pirate ship fights?

[brisk hill]

Where’s the fun in a repeatable boss

[restive storm]

purging staff or bust at this point

[brisk hill]

& then doing it for 70+ hours

[tacit pendant]

Angel and maggot king. But if i had to guess angel is titans level grind

[brisk hill]

Definitely worth

[meager flame]

just wait till it drops and its a 1 in 5k

and they're like

well you see the heart actually takes twice this length of time

[tacit pendant]

Its doa if not divine anyways. Might not even make the cut lol

[restive storm]

maybe if i ever did multi content

[brisk hill]

A longer freeze could help in some situations in singles but fair play gamer

[south void]

At a 1 in 5k for a lower tier heart drop, I'd rather spend that time doing slayer hoping for a heart drop or just buying one from slayer loot tbh. (speaking on a main). On an iron, I'm all for a sidegrade.

[tacit pendant]

The pitch was "parrying and directional weakness" inb4 its gryphon 2

[meager flame]

people keep asking for a parry spec and like

im almost down for it

[restive storm]

ye i put my faith in the virtus/elidnis (f)/purging staff

[meager flame]

at least thats different

[tacit pendant]

I think the pitch was sol-esque 1-tick parries to teach you that mech

[meager flame]

idk how you could make it a spec weapon rather than being a sol like mechanic where its built in

[tacit pendant]

Rapier getting a parry spec has been a suggestion for a min

[meager flame]

like idk how you decide when and how that works

[restive storm]

assembler GANG man ion know what sol-esque thing ur talm bout

[tacit pendant]

Idk we have veng/redemption/pnecks, the mechanics kind of exist when the game asks you to be assed with that shit

[meager flame]

basically sol yells out he's gonna break your back or some other similar message

and you try to unequip your cape tick perfect and then after that you max

or he grabs you and you take damage

[tacit pendant]

During sol if you only hit prot melee the tick he hits you for a 3 hit combo you get a big hit punish

[restive storm]

seems like a kindaaa lame mechanic but aight

[tacit pendant]

Nah thats not it turkey lol

[meager flame]

its interesting for a boss just because its like

you react to something unexpected you almost never take gear off

[tacit pendant]

But the grapple mechanic is also fun

[meager flame]

yeah but in practice it would have to work like the grapple if they wanted to add it as like a spec

[tacit pendant]

They cooked with sol

[restive storm]

i mean its sorta like hitting boot take-offs used to be, but feel like thats even kinda less of a thing now in pvp with treads

but lets be real still 99% of pkers werent doing that

[meager flame]

where you'd pop your spec same tick they attack

and hit them instead

[tacit pendant]

Vengeance spell upgrade. If you veng the exact tick youre getting hit it nukes monsters

[meager flame]

type of deal

[tacit pendant]

Or veng upgrade that nulls some percentage of damage with full recoil (less in pvp)

[meager flame]

it would be crazy in pvp but they'd probably disable it for pvp and never even see what happens

even though a parry spec in pvp could be like

really high skill ceiling stuff

[tacit pendant]

I really like spell upgrades as reward space, anything to break arceuss meta pls

Its kinda insane the first spell upgrade since god wars spells we got in the game was dc

[opaque sparrow]

You think they will ever add a Crafting Minigame? As much as I love blowing glass, I think a minigame would be fun for Crafting. Lol

[meager flame]

i do think they should focus on making veng more fun

[tacit pendant]

We getting a crafting activity next island update lol

[carmine junco]

I voted for dun na creagan for this reason

[meager flame]

like a veng upgrade where it just reflects full damage/protects you for pve

rather than doing recoil damage

would probably be fun

[tacit pendant]

It would be hella fun lol

[carmine junco]

Did wyrmscraig have a crafting activity too?

[analog crow]

One of the player designed islands was cooking something like that I think

[meager flame]

tbh

[tacit pendant]

Even something like a pot share upgrade could be a vibe for raids, or a heal other upgrade

[opaque sparrow]

Wait seriously? I just recently started grinding again so I didn't see none of that stuff yet. Oh that sounds great then! Lol

[meager flame]

im surprised we didn't just get a shield at some point that could do something similar

[tacit pendant]

Yeah look up player designed island winner on wiki

[opaque sparrow]

Ok! Thank you Mic

[tacit pendant]

I just want lunars to be competitive with arceuss fr

[meager flame]

just make some kind of mirror shield reference basically

the zelda version not the osrs one

[tacit pendant]

Veng wayyyy more fun than thralls

[carmine junco]

Oh right it has golem crafting. Still hope they go forward with the hunter furs thing but we'll see

[limpid karma]

Make it so you actually get the untreatable if you pk them and you can mount it in your poh with the players name you killed, you just can’t equip it

Problem solved

[tacit pendant]

Veng melee, veng range, and veng mage for even higher skill cieling fuck it

[meager flame]

ya the zelda version of the mirror shield was basically a shield that could reflect magic attacks

a million games have had the same idea from spells or items or whatever

idk why jagex hasn't tried it

[analog crow]

Well they had reflect prayers right

[meager flame]

yeah they've had small attempts at it

[carmine junco]

Wasn't that the ancient prayers or something? Less damage mitigation but does reflect?

[meager flame]

like veng for example even works that way on the mirrorback araxyte

probably a reference to what i was saying above

[tacit pendant]

I would put money on 1 raids reward being the very last prayer slot on our current book

[meager flame]

ya it should have a big piety upgrade hopefully

[opaque sparrow]

Oh yea that all looks great honestly. Time to get my sailing up to 75 now lol

[tacit pendant]

Im hoping fero glove upgrade, crush nally, and a heavy ranged dps weapon, maybe a mage spec

[analog crow]

Yeah

https://runescape.wiki/w/Deflect_Magic

[carmine junco]

Ah yeah, I thought so.

[meager flame]

i think interesting stuff like a shield with a spec though are things they should be trying to figure out more often

its kinda weird how we just use a defender or die basically most of the time

[tacit pendant]

Sorry best we can do is creeping retribution

[analog crow]

Something like dfs spec but useful

[carmine junco]

Dps is king as they say. It's why moons was one of the more interesting design decisions recently, it added an incentive to use defense gear.

[tacit pendant]

Vardorvis is actually the line for how much healing off of chip a boss needs to make defense good

[meager flame]

yeah its just that honestly

they could make an offensive shield

[tacit pendant]

Its actually so perfectly the line its insane. Justi > bandos

Torva > justi. Any boss that heals on chip more than vard justi could overtake torva

[meager flame]

they even kinda sorta tried with the dfs

but* the loss when you spec with it is way too hilarious to be serious most of the time

[ashen yarrow]

People complaining about defensive stats are same people demanding 0 damage pvm content

[carmine junco]

I don't mind chip damage. I think Yama is a great example recently of what I like. Araxxor as well

[tacit pendant]

Honestly chip damage is great

[ashen yarrow]

The thing is most chip damage ignores defensive stats. Like if you made chip damage roll against certain defensive stat it could make it interesting

[carmine junco]

Yama and araxor dont ignore

[restive storm]

go stand in them escape caves for a min or two and come back to me XD

[tacit pendant]

Momentum with brews and when to repot is skill expression

[carmine junco]

It's what is good about them, and also Yama there are ways to mitigate the chip that feel fun

[tacit pendant]

Im pvm squintz lolol

[carmine junco]

Step back while meleeing

[carmine junco]

This is the intention, you shouldn't want to

[restive storm]

but you have to if you're pking there sadly 🙁

[tacit pendant]

I really disagree with the reddit take that all chip damage bad. Nex post update actually pretty rad

[carmine junco]

Well if you're pking you wouldn't just be standing there, you'd be chasing someone through them

[restive storm]

well you get to be in there for about 15-35 seconds, then you leave. Then you hop worlds and are essentially sitting in there another 15-35 seconds

so you end up just feeling like ur camping inside there just due to how the content works

[tacit pendant]

Yeah no, chip damage anywhere you are waiting for a fight is asscheeks

[carmine junco]

Didn't they change it so that when you hop/log you now appear outside them?

[restive storm]

right but are you gonna stand there killing the boss everytime you check a world?

maybe if you got 20 people its like 1-2 hits

not in smaller groups lol

[carmine junco]

Why are you entering to check the world?

[restive storm]

because if theres activity you gotta go in

and if its just 1 bot or something, then u gotta go next

[meager flame]

ya it depends on if its multi or singles boss too

for singles you cant check you have to enter like tick perfect

[restive storm]

i mean singles is fine cuz theres no escape caves

[meager flame]

to hopefully catch someone

they're probably gone anyways but like

[carmine junco]

There's no escape caves on singles

[meager flame]

if you're slow you wont ever catch them bc they scout

[carmine junco]

So it does not depend

[restive storm]

singles u have to pray theyre afk

otherwise they just tele before u can enter the cave

[carmine junco]

Singles wildy is free pretty much

[restive storm]

which is also unfun in its own way

[meager flame]

ya like nobody ever even hit my iron because i was just

awake

[restive storm]

yeah, awake, and most people have screens flashing/air raid sirens telling them to click tele

[meager flame]

i really wish i could talk to whoever designed it

lmao

its pretty unbelievable how bad it is

[restive storm]

i know what the person who designed it wwould say

id like to know who approved it at jagex

[meager flame]

like its so bad that i've literally never tried to pk anyone at the singles bosses the way they are now

and even im sitting there like

yo this is fucked up

lmao i park my main outside and theres just nothing anyone could do

[restive storm]

yeah i dont really ever pk pk there, if anything ill try to skulltrick antipkers

but pking feels like a waste

cuz at least the anti pkers want you to hit them

[kind surge]

it's not even satisfying to use a scout for singles

I mainly just use one because of the bots, not even the pkers

[meager flame]

ya its not a game its the hardest counter imaginable lol

like they actually cant do anything about it if you're looking at the screen

[kind surge]

although idk how good the increased diary req helped with fighting the bot issue at singles bosses

I can't imagine it did that amazing

been a while since I did wildy stuff

[ashen yarrow]

Normal players wanted wildy hard completed anyway to remove tp delay

[tacit pendant]

Yeah no i just did wildy bosses on an iron with my main scouting. Its actually unfair how safe it is

Post up a single rev knight at each cave entrance in singles lmao

Make me work atleast a little for my safety

But actually just make it so u cant tp until you actually walk out the door

[kind surge]

I had a 50 kc trip last time I was there, it's stupid

[carmine junco]

I mean that's not to do with safety, just luck and when you were there

[kind surge]

most people don't bother with a scout waiting outside

[tacit pendant]

Its both. The safety being a thing means people dont try

Ope

[kind surge]

definitely is because of the safety of a scout

[hard axle]

Anyone who tries to trivialize the importance of alts in wildy for pvm is just braindamaged.

Player Indicators + Wilderness Player Alarms are some of the most BROKEN combination of plugins.

This is why I repeatedly say if you die sub-30 wilderness while on RL, you misplayed or just shit.

Because TB range is shorter than chunk load range.

[kind surge]

wilderness player alarm actually shouldn't be a thing

[hard axle]

It really shouldn't

[kind surge]

this is from a complete pvmer perspective

[hard axle]

It's why I want Wilderness to be completely un-teleportable outside of Ferox Enclave, but you add 10+ more Ferox Enclaves throughout the Wilderness to compensate.

[hard axle]

same

[ashen yarrow]

you have 2-3 tick reaction time to teleport before max range tb. It is still not 100% escape unless you are already ready to teleport when pker shows up

[hard axle]

the amount of times that I've died in wilderness while actively pvming for pets is ridiculously low, which is why it's so stupid

Chaos Altar should be a 500k deposit to use too

way too strong to be able to 1-inventory risk-free imo

[kind surge]

maybe not 500k but more like 50k since it's really easy to just die there

[carmine junco]

Good, even less reason to ever go there

[tacit pendant]

Yeah no tps (maybe no logging for longer) but more safe spots could be pretty interesting. The average player would hate

[obsidian venture]

HAWLY

There’s a game suggestion which is disliked because people think wildy alarm is equal to player indicators 😂😂

So many ie players

[kind surge]

😭

it's like saying having a text message from a family member vs full blast amber alert is the same thing

[tacit pendant]

Make every obelisk a safe zone but they are the only tp allowed, have fun

[ashen yarrow]

in guideline perspective it is same as player indicators, there is argument to make that flashing screen is easier to notice than red name on screen/minimap but both highlight same general information

[chrome lantern]

I think people are afraid to follow that to its logical conclusion though. Which is, why are we allowing the player indicators either?

[kind surge]

the level of attention needed between the two is vastly different though

which is the primary difference

[tacit pendant]

I mean you could just set up a program to scan your screen for white dots and alarm you. How tf jagex detect this honestly

Wheres the line on "the player was locked in looking for white dots and clutched it" vs "they had help"

Enforcement is vague af

[kind surge]

there's nothing they can do about that, but in that case much less players will have access to it since they have to download a program outside of rl

[tacit pendant]

If you dont want players to escape instantly, this can be done mechanically and already is, but needs some fixes in its current state

[chrome lantern]

Sure but by that logic you could also have an external software overlay recognizing the sequence of triple jad attacks and doing a guitar hero indicator down to your protection prayer, too. It would still be against the rules

[kind surge]

and absolutely no one should do so since it's so easy to just troll yourself and lose your entire account, like many others have done downloading "plugins" outside of the plugin hub

[tacit pendant]

Even shit like just having a zoom on your pc over your mini map makes looking for a white dot not very hard idk

I mean shit i can do that on mobile doing slayer

And by can i mean have

Im not like against what you're saying but tp restrictions are likely the play over manual reviewing every report of every player that gets reported for teleing "too fast"

[kind surge]

a lot people won't put in the little extra effort for that imo

[ashen yarrow]

the issue with going after specific plugin without changing the guideline is that players can just move to different version of information output

[kind surge]

well yeah obviously jagex has to put a stance out for it

[tacit pendant]

If you are expecting players to report others for teleing too fast simply make teles less fast lol

[ashen yarrow]

screen can no longer flash, now we get red message in chat box instead or specific sound

[kind surge]

and we're not saying to let jagex ban people for using player alarm

idk where that came from

[tacit pendant]

Thats the road you go down banning the plugin tho

[kind surge]

not really

it'll make a lot less people have that convenience and that's enough

there's no need to start banning people for some reason

[tacit pendant]

Ok so, theres no consequences and someone that does 5 mins of googling is just way better at escaping than a new player already scared of wildy

[kind surge]

and if people download sketchy apps on some hack site and lose their accounts/banks, that's on them

[tacit pendant]

There are certainly non sketchy ways to get plugins on rl not from runelite lmao

[kind surge]

most people won't bother

[tacit pendant]

Ok but a lot will if they are serious about getting a voidwaker.

[kind surge]

especially on a game like runescape where you can spend decades on a single character

doubtful imo

[ashen yarrow]

removing wilderness player alert just wont fix any issue. players can still use other plugins to highlight same information in different way

[tacit pendant]

You just said theres no bans so theres not risk?

[kind surge]

? I mean risk by downloading outside of the rl plugin hub

there's been a lot of accounts stolen already from that

[tacit pendant]

Theres not risk if 100s of thousands of people are confirming its safe, any more than wiki sync or any other plugin

[kind surge]

I remember there was a "tob plugin" thing that people used to do

wiki sync is a rl plugin so it's either on the plugin hub or already built into rl

[tacit pendant]

And there are other plugins that accomplish ypur goal, AND jagex shouldnt be pushing people off official methods to begin with

[frozen lion]

"Allow players to dig up healthy plants while they're growing for all plants, as is already the case with Herb patches."

Damn finally, had several times have to wait until wrong shit grows up so I can do the contract's one.

[tacit pendant]

This shit is gas.

Not to mention; a scout at singles bosses just zoomed in well enough is already enough of an unfair advantage it really doesnt matter if the screen flashes red

[kind surge]

requires an alt which not everyone has

although it also shouldn't be a thing

but obviously you can't just ban people for it

[silk thicket]

Least u gotta pay attention to chat box

Did they change it

[tacit pendant]

Alts are like a huge part of why wildy alarms are so strong to begin with

[silk thicket]

Ye no getting around that tho double revenue

[frozen lion]

"we'd like to add a visual indicator to patches that show whether the patch has been composted, and which tier of compost has been used. There are already RuneLite plugins that do this, so being able to bring players on other clients up to speed here would be lovely!"

Hopefully not as buggy. The plugin often has issue showing patch being composted while not after replanting.

[kind surge]

both together are what make pvmers extremely safe

[tacit pendant]

I cant think of many instances where without an alt wildy alarms are problematicly op

Or so problematic that the consequences of banning it are worth it

[silk thicket]

Anything below 30 wildy

[kind surge]

idk what "consequences" there are for disallowing something like wildy player alarm

[silk thicket]

Anger

[tacit pendant]

You need to ban a fucking lot of plugins

[ashen yarrow]

pkers in general dont like that players can teleport before they get chance to tb. currently anyone who reacts in time is assumed to be bot or using alarm (cheating)

[silk thicket]

Bro

[frozen lion]

ban pkers

[meager flame]

the consequences are basically just that regular people dont get the benefit but they still get owned by people willing to break unenforcable rules

you'd have to ban way more plugins than just the player alarm

to be able to detect

[tacit pendant]

Yeah bots just get a free pass over regular dudes wayyyy more

[ashen yarrow]

banning wilderness player alarm wont solve anything about reaction time improvent unless there is guideline change to prevent highlighting players in general inside wilderness

[kind surge]

tbh they should probably do that for the wildy

[meager flame]

yeah but then you'd have to figure out how to determine when and how

and i'd be willing to bet that jagex cant

[kind surge]

that would mean jagex will have to fix the issues for the wildy too but we know they won't

[tacit pendant]

Do they also ban making players see through?

Do they ban making NPCs see through?

And yeah we know they wont do any of this

[kind surge]

what does that have to do with marking/signaling other players in the wildy

[meager flame]

no im pretty sure you can do that on the default client

with a chat command

to hide yourself

you dont even need runelite afaik

[tacit pendant]

More safe zones and more tp restrictions imo seems more likely. And none of it at all seems likely at all

[kind surge]

the only advantage that gives is when you're frozen and they step under

[meager flame]

yeah thats a big advantage though

[tacit pendant]

Which is a massive advantage

[kind surge]

and at that point player indicator/alarm isn't doing anything lol

[meager flame]

it probably shouldn't be hidden like it is

[kind surge]

yeah but they're just unrelated

[zinc galleon]

yeah its kind of a weird situation - because it's unclear what is ok and not ok to automate. like if i can do timers, can i automate boss action timers that tell me to click a prayer?

[tacit pendant]

We kinda have a lot of this with doom as is

[ashen yarrow]

you cannot highlight specific information about boss mechanic or player combat

[meager flame]

unironically that is allowed currently but its because jagex is asleep at the wheel

[carmine junco]

You cannot. This is why the cg plug-in is a timed voice over

[meager flame]

you can use other logic to keep up timers

[carmine junco]

It isn't reactive to the boss

[tacit pendant]

You can change sound effects to whatever you want and make projectiles as clear as you want

[meager flame]

for example watchdog can do things based on in game chat messages

and if you happen to know how long something lasts after you see a certain message

you can do things with that logic

[tacit pendant]

Many bosses are trivialized with the right blinders. Animation swaps. And sfx swaps

[kind surge]

I heard watchdog itself is just completely problematic too

[tacit pendant]

Yes

[meager flame]

yeah watchdog should be banned

[kind surge]

even if it's helpful for normal thing

[zinc galleon]

well i'm getting to this that, if i can't do things that are reactive to a boss, how come i can have things that are reactive to a playere?

[ashen yarrow]

wilderness player alarm is only allowed because it triggers on any player even if they are not in combat lvl range

[carmine junco]

Because that's the line they've drawn

[meager flame]

realistically jagex should just let runelite know that unless the dev adjusts it

that it should be removed

[tacit pendant]

It allows you to do fucked shit with foot pedal chins for example. Like never looking at your screen all the way to fairly quick 99 hunter

[meager flame]

because they can do that

but as i said

asleep at the wheel

[kind surge]

idk if jagex even cares about plugins anymore

they even stopped working on api

[tacit pendant]

They dont

[meager flame]

dudes are so checked out they cant even send in the demand for someone else to do the work

[zinc galleon]

that's not really automation though right? it's just angling your camera and clicking in a single spot

[meager flame]

its kinda sad

[tacit pendant]

No

[meager flame]

because they have the final say with runelite plugins

they just aren't doing anything lol

[tacit pendant]

It auto opens and closes your client to force you from ever messing up timing until specific chat messages appear

[zinc galleon]

ah ok i'm not familiar with what you're talking about then

[meager flame]

i mean take pnm

watchdog can enable and disable plugins or profiles if you really wanted to

[tacit pendant]

If you go deep down the rabbit hole you can make almost every single skill 100% spam clicking im not even kidding lol

[meager flame]

so i could take the chat message that your prayers are jumbled and load in a prayer reorder plugin profile

to swap your prayers around

so they stay in the right place

that would be insanely fucked and exactly what jagex doesn't want you to do with plugins

but so far they're just living with players not being good at changing stuff yet

[tacit pendant]

https://youtu.be/gUQ8sxaQ1Ic?si=8gATQQ438_yN1Uik

[meager flame]

eventually its gonna become meta to have profiles for a lot of activities

if they dont do anything

[kind surge]

it's so funny that the osrs side used to complain about rs3 easyscape but then we got plugins like watchdog 😭

[tacit pendant]

Like that video is actually cheating lmao

[meager flame]

well the thing is most players are currently too dumb to use it

but when popular players start abusing it and making guides or letting you copy paste

its gonna be a problem

[tacit pendant]

Yeah have boaty donit on stream 1 single time for a hc or something

[kind surge]

they probably already use it but don't talk about it

[meager flame]

i mean they do in small ways

[tacit pendant]

"im gonna go edit a vid while i bank chins for this accs entire raiding life"

[meager flame]

like im sure you've seen people just get the "drink divine lad" or whatever above their head randomly

thats watchdog

telling them their divine expired

[kind surge]

ye I've seen that in some clips

[meager flame]

if it were limited to stuff like that it would probably be fine

but its way more powerful than that

you can also use it to build out a ui for when jagex messes up

[frozen lion]

"Move the Dragon pickaxe upgrade kit to Petrified Pete's Shop at Volcanic Mine."

does it mean, the clog will be moved from LMS to Volcanic Mine, instead of removing it from clog entirely?

[zinc galleon]

it's quite useful in sailing trials to trim your sails xD

[meager flame]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4OV9QGEceI

like this

and yeah i use it for the speed boost while sailing expiring

jagex is going to fuck around and learn why blizzard hated weakauras before this is over with lol

[tacit pendant]

It is unbelievably powerful. If you were smart about alot of bosses that have dialogue on attacks (verzik nex etc) it can really free up brain power

[zinc galleon]

oh this is nice, the reason i don't trawl though is because the fishing exp is doo doo, but it is also very tedious

[ashen yarrow]

yes, just that it is disabled in certain bosses and raids. By jagex's demand

[tacit pendant]

Fair. Still fucked for skilling in general

I guess abuse early lol

[meager flame]

the weird thing is that it was supposedly disabled for some bosses but then apparently some of it still just works

so i think they probably asked for very specific things to not work on some bosses and sorta

missed some things or maybe they got added after the request im not sure which

[carmine junco]

Alchemical Hydra
Vardorvis
Leviathan
Whisperer
Sucellus
Vorkath
Inferno
Fight Cave
Colosseum
Kalphite Queen
COX
TOB
TOA
Yama
Delve Boss (Doom of Mokhaiotl)
Nightmare```

Supposedly it is disabled in all these places

So maybe not as much of a concern there. I haven't tried to use it much, so I can't confirm personally.

Considering the block at doom it's fair to say they are keeping up with the restrictions that are placed on it

[tacit pendant]

Id believe that and sorry for misinformation. I dont try to cheese pvm with blinders or watchdog my b and thats good info

[kind surge]

there's hope at least

also funny as hell seeing kq there

[carmine junco]

Not sure what uses it would have at kq tbh?

[torpid delta]

"bro thinks he's on the team" energy

[ashen yarrow]

yeah i couldnt think of any reason to add kq unless it is the flinch tracker

[carmine junco]

Flinch tracker maybe...

[frozen lion]

Does it have some use on Nex maybe?

didn't do much, so dont remember text boxes if there are any

[kind surge]

pretty minor if it is just flinch tracker

[carmine junco]

There's the overhead text. And I have the plug-in that adds the voice lines to nex I think?

[silk thicket]

Flinch tracking is specifically against 3pc guidelines tho

[kind surge]

fair, didn't know that

[carmine junco]

Not sure there is any other boss you flinch regularly so maybe that is why it's shut off there?

[kind surge]

yeah that's most likely why

you can flinch other bosses but it's nowhere near as "valuable" as flinching kq

[tacit pendant]

Kq, corp, scorpia and huey love for summer sweep up pleaaaaase

[carmine junco]

I hear people liked the echo kq though I didn't take that region myself

Kq being a flinch boss is kind of lame

[tacit pendant]

My line of thinking is any dead content boss might as well have alchables at least on par with zombie pirates

[carmine junco]

To be fair kq does have pretty good drops

[tacit pendant]

Because a bot cant bring in alchables at more than one boss at a time

[carmine junco]

It just sucks to fight. You either take a billion damage or very long kills

[tacit pendant]

Idk no reason you make less gp at that iconic boss over zombie pirates lol

[carmine junco]

I guess in terms of alchables yeah.

[analog crow]

Echo kq is what kq should be like

[carmine junco]

I liked the zammy wines and other things but I'm an iron so those are more valuable to me lol

[tacit pendant]

Give us echo kq and like 3 mil an hour and im happy

Maybe a hot take but id throw dragon ammo on a lottttt of bosses like huey to help the irons a little

[meager flame]

idk if that even really helps

like

[analog crow]

3m hr is indeed a hot take for kq

[meager flame]

it does up until you now have no reason to do bosses

and then it just turns into a waste of time compared to just getting amy ammo

its the same thing that keep happening when they add like

[analog crow]

But echo kq being a good source of zammy wines would be good

[meager flame]

some dragon arrows here or there

[tacit pendant]

The only real option to actually grind dragon ammo is colo if you are clean with it.

[meager flame]

its honestly kind of funny because they keep nailing giving you enough while you're doing content for other reasons

but never give you enough to come back just for the ammo

[tacit pendant]

Or afk brutal blacks i guess.

I agree

[analog crow]

Vork drops good d bolts
Cg and tds drop arrows

[carmine junco]

Vorkath is pretty good for ammo but I think if I had his unique s I would not be there

[tacit pendant]

Huey being dead is especially a shame because it was so hyped for varlamore p2. If it was like a dragon ammo source for irons we could atleast always find a team and its like.... Kinda good for mains at mid level

Vorkath is true im with you there

[meager flame]

ya bolts are easy because you dont use that many and they're easy to get from a few places

its the arrows and darts that they refuse to budge on

[tacit pendant]

Arrows and darts are coming from venators but like... Give the dead bosses something pleeeease

[carmine junco]

Arrows in hoping to gather up from chambersing

[analog crow]

Yeah i couldn’t tell you a good dart source

[meager flame]

i mean what it really turns into

is that

you pretty much shouldn't do anything with the intention of getting the arrows and darts

you just go mine amethyst

[tacit pendant]

3m an hour for kq certainly doesnt seem high? Any actual boss should prob compete with fuckin pirates

[carmine junco]

Yeah

[analog crow]

lol fr

[meager flame]

because you cant get enough to justify your time if you go for dragon arrows/darts explicitly

[tacit pendant]

Yep

[carmine junco]

I have thousands of amethyst banked for darts

[analog crow]

Maybe pirates are disasterously overtuned

[tacit pendant]

Agreed

But 3m an hour aint fuckin much in general these days

[carmine junco]

It's pretty competitive

Zulrah and vorkath rank below that

If you're comparing it to doom deep delving sure

[meager flame]

tbh i kind of feel bad for people playing mains and thinking in terms of gp/hr

[analog crow]

I think it’s fine if a boss is farmed for iron drops rather than gp

[meager flame]

its basically slave labor these days lol

[tacit pendant]

Eh with bad gear vorkath does

[carmine junco]

This is why I stopped playing a main

[analog crow]

Ref zammy wines

[meager flame]

also just the top end value of stuff has gotten kind of nuts

[tacit pendant]

I dont necessarily think with gp per hour only on my main

[meager flame]

if you were to try to grind 3m/hr to get end game gear it would just be like

[tacit pendant]

But i have standards

[meager flame]

the worst experience of all time

[tacit pendant]

Id be willing to do group content like huey with even slightly better gp per hour

Like shit ill do 5 man nightmare

[meager flame]

i always wonder if they're gonna do anything to like

[tacit pendant]

If im really hungry ill send doom and tob

[meager flame]

get some more control of the economy of the game one day

[carmine junco]

In what way?

[meager flame]

or if they're really gonna let us get so far ahead of people that just start or maybe play casually that they cant even play the same game the rest of us are

basically the gap between starting out and being towards the end of things keeps growing to the point that like

[tacit pendant]

I mean. New players are eating pretty good man

[meager flame]

you have people still grinding like 100m is a lot for them

and then other people that dont even care because their bank is 25b and growing

[tacit pendant]

Because 10m gets you moons gear and shit which is a huge level up

And you can hit 10 mil an hour duoing yama with a fucking emberlight or purging staff

[meager flame]

and lol

[carmine junco]

Well yeah, but the economy in the game is weird. Small bonuses are worth almost exponentially more.

[meager flame]

every time they add something new now because those people exist the way they do

the value of the new best items looks insane

and then crashes slowly and everyone's like omg doom gp/hr is ruined etc depending on whatever update it is

[tacit pendant]

I dont see new players being ahead as a problem right now and dont expect it to be for the next few years if ever

[meager flame]

it really colors the feedback jagex gets too

[tacit pendant]

But like yama or rax have actually maintained very solid gp. Many torm demons crashed hard but

[meager flame]

because then people complain about appropriate drop rates because nothing can hold enough value to make them feel like its worth it when they have more gp than they'll need for the next decade

its just weird because people expect the game to keep growing with them but its not going to and they dont really understand that its sort of over for them and gp mattering

[carmine junco]

I mean, items going down in value is exactly how new players get access to them.

Dex used to be 100m,now it's less than 20n

Arcane is less than 5

[meager flame]

yeah but its causing all of the higher end players to ask for worse drop rates and have unreasonable expectations

like

if i pooled all of my gp to my main i'd look at a new drop being 80m and be like

thats free

[carmine junco]

I mean I doubt jagex would do this because it just makes the money more swingy

[meager flame]

idk how they're even supposed to feel excited about that drop in that way

so hopefully they become cloggers or irons

because its the only escape

[tacit pendant]

I dont really think high end players are asking for that

[meager flame]

it happens all the time

like yama is a good example

they're convinced the drops are too easy

[carmine junco]

But jagex hasn't changed Yama drops

[meager flame]

even though if we actually pull out the hours to compare

[carmine junco]

Nor have they signaled an intention to

[meager flame]

its not too easy

[tacit pendant]

I mean yama drops you could argue are like 30% too common, and yeah they werent changed. You could also just argue torva is too rare?

[meager flame]

they actually did nerf yama drops already

they did it the first week iirc

[tacit pendant]

They havent changed simce like week 1

[kind surge]

ye it was just a week 1 issue

[carmine junco]

Sure, and I'd say they're still reasonable

[tacit pendant]

Torva is the problem there and most would agree

[kind surge]

I don't think it's much of an issue atm

[meager flame]

it just creates weird pressure where people really want things to take progressively longer for value reasons

but it just cant work that way

[tacit pendant]

Dude idk community has way more beef with nex and phosanis

[carmine junco]

Mhm

[meager flame]

ya they say its bad but then yama drops and corrects and they're like

[tacit pendant]

And chambers for that matter lol

[carmine junco]

I rarely see complaints about Yama but everyone hates those two

[meager flame]

😭 torva is dead

lol they kinda play it both ways

[carmine junco]

Because of its terrible rates

[kind surge]

yeah torva is just too rare for barely an upgrade over oath, and pvmers complain more about melee upgrades being minimal instead (outside of something like rancour, that one was a pretty decent upgrade)

[carmine junco]

And the fact that nex is click yellow sim

[tacit pendant]

Torva is rough because of nex, no dry protect on dupes for irons, and there is just straight up no stab content

If there was more than toa and nex, torva prices go way up

(not helm that is)

[meager flame]

the weird thing is though in terms of time

i'd say inquisitor for example rn is actually pretty much fine

i dont think the orbs and mace are super okay

[tacit pendant]

Nex is a shit ttc. Phosanis is in the best shape its ever been

[meager flame]

but its probably just about hitting the mark that people want oathplate to hit time wise

[tacit pendant]

And when we get crush content i would bet pnm breaks 10m an hour

[meager flame]

but they complain about it a lot lol

[chrome lantern]

Still crazy they removed sunfire splinters from doom

[meager flame]

the only thing that sucks about inq armor i'd say is that theres no way to craft a piece with untradable drops

[tacit pendant]

Its a torva problem man. Itll be more normal to expect mains to not just own pathplate if we get other content

[meager flame]

idk why yama shards were tradable

[tacit pendant]

Inquizzy shards would indeed go hard

[carmine junco]

To provide another source of gp for mains

[tacit pendant]

Kinda mandatory if the game makes crush relevant

[carmine junco]

You can sell them or hold them

[chrome lantern]

Honestly the bigger issue for Torva is just that the vambraces and ZCB are the better items, and the nihil horn is same rarity as torva pieces

[tacit pendant]

Make sra pieces tradeable 🙂

[meager flame]

its just so silly though like

[chrome lantern]

Combied with Oathplate existing

[tacit pendant]

Crash the axe its not that good

[meager flame]

the piece you can create in the end is tradable if you're dedicated and someone that might actually need that bad luck protection to help a little

all they really did was crowd source oathplate items for mains to create them faster than they would've liked

rather than rewarding dedication

[tacit pendant]

It does make a dope smithing money maker tho

[carmine junco]

Well, if you're a main you can always just buy them. That's your dry protection.

[tacit pendant]

With some skill expression

[kind surge]

noo not my prestigious flex item (tm) that jagex sometimes uses as the excuse for bad drop rates

[chrome lantern]

Nah they balanced the weapon as if you didn't have the ramp mechanic and it were actually good instead of turbo niche

[tacit pendant]

I agree

[meager flame]

i hope they fix axe just so i can like

buy the league recolor for it

and see it

[tacit pendant]

Only an hp or only a ramp mechanic is ok. Both is dogshit

[chrome lantern]

I don't even agree with that tbh

The ramp alone kills it

It's not worth bringing out anywhere in raids other than Verzik because of the ramp alone

You lose stacks between kills and feel like you're just waiting for bosses to respawn so you can instantly click and not lose even more stacks

[tacit pendant]

The ramp alone doesnt kill it for pvp

[chrome lantern]

I do think the hp makes it worse and is unnecessary but I don't think it would magically be ok if they got rid of just the hp part

[tacit pendant]

But id prefer no ramp I'm with you

[chrome lantern]

Ah I forgot that PvP is holding back the SRA from being a viable weapon in PvM, my bad

[tacit pendant]

I dont think it actually is

Im just saying if it was only great in pvp and some bosses that is like, something

Its just diet scythe for people who either dont tob on a main or are cracked at tob on an iron

[chrome lantern]

Yeah but the main issue is that it doesn't even do well as an item between nox/blade and scythe

[tacit pendant]

Agreeeeed

Excited for sweep up to see where their sights are set. Ima bounce outa here

[chrome lantern]

I fear that the answer will probably be silence

But yeah I think we're saying generally the same things

[south void]

Running in with soulreaper axes, just to all realize we could cheese walk side to side with Nox hally for Verzik.....felt wrong.

We even have scythers who refused to learn scythe walk and used nox hally side to side to avoid getting bounced lol.

It just felt so silly.

[chrome lantern]

I don't have a nox hally so I haven't really looked into this but I feel like it might be better dps to bring both nox hally and SRA for p2 and on the attack you would lose a tick, hit with hally instead xd

[south void]

With hally, you don't even have to step to the red crabs to pop them with the extra tile range, or learn to step under because you just walk side to side.

It's goofy

And if you shift+walk p3, you never are in melee range of verzik

[meager flame]

i mean the actual strat with halberd is just walking in a square on verzik since you cant be hit by anything as far as her projectiles while doing it

and you stay where you're supposed to be during that part

i actually think its really easy but people are convinced its harder for learners

[south void]

I think it's because they are used to the 1 to 1 clicks from a 4t weapon or the stalled attacks on 5 tick step under. Not used to just, walking around lol

[meager flame]

if you have a good setup for true tile/destination tile its really easy to do it tick perfectly the whole time

[south void]

Anyways, I'd love a SRA update is my point. Nox hally trivialized it.

[meager flame]

and its not like i expect someone new enough to be learning that to like

use boak or anything

so they're losing ticks for the crabs with any weapon

[south void]

Whole team with burning claws, one spec on red crabs was enough to get through phases, with one tap from hally.

So 1 burn claw spec-1 hally tap-back to boss

(speaking ironmen) if main, dragon claws

[tacit pendant]

They just not gonna talk about this outside of fb?

[chrome lantern]

It was also on Twitter

But yeah fr

I had a friend forward it to me

Otherwise I would have no idea

[sacred skiff]

Yep avg lol

[meager flame]

silly noobs dont you follow jagex on 6 different platforms and watch them all

[tacit pendant]

Stab/slash/crush boppers i assume. Maybe demonbane? Idk

[meager flame]

yeah its probably just the dual maskdjflk;asd;lfkaklcjklsdfkafasdfcountchoculas

[teal hinge]

Why are they called echo bosses still tho

[tacit pendant]

Boppers of mocha frappe

[sacred skiff]

Dev time to rename from Echo was too prohibitive

[tacit pendant]

Yeah they could be like pact or demon/hellish as a prefix idk

[meager flame]

i think they are changing the color scheme at least

[chrome lantern]

Literally just Demonic

We don't even have to worry about Demonic Demonic Brutus since Misthalin isn't there

And because we don't have demonbane apparently

[teal hinge]

Holy Brutus

[tacit pendant]

Or contract of amoxiotal

[chrome lantern]

Get contracts for echo bosses by killing Frost Naguas with the correct style!

[tacit pendant]

Lmfao jagex pleeeease

[meager flame]

yeah maybe they'll let us be gigachads and kill 40k black demons to unlock them

[chrome lantern]

True, as we all know, that's how you become a "gigachad ironman"

[sacred skiff]

lol 💯 ref

[meager flame]

lol that shit is honestly too funny

[sacred skiff]

Laughing all the way to my 3x dry on the first cannon barrel, yep

[chrome lantern]

So yeah, I don't have any sympathies here. And to be honest, I'm that Ironman who just kinda says the game mode's difficult, but I'm the gigachad who'll sit there and grind it for hours and weeks sometimes. You know, I didn't care that I had to grind 12,000 demons for my Radiant Oathplate, I just sat there and grinded the contracts cuz that's what an Ironman account does.

-Mod Husky

[sacred skiff]

Based

[chrome lantern]

Kinda disrespectful to be one of the people who design the content then just say "yeah that's what an ironman does lmao"

[sacred skiff]

It was at that moment I started to worry for Sailing

[restive storm]

i worried for sailing the second they proposed the idea

I def didn't miss on that

[sacred skiff]

Oh wait I did also worry when I tried cannons in the second playtest, but I figured it would surely get fixed after the feedback got in

[chrome lantern]

Why would they ask for feedback if they intended to change things? That's on you for assuming that

[sacred skiff]

u rite, baby's first playtest mistake

[round lintel]

I didnt want a new skill but once sailing was decided to be the new skill I was worried that it'd be another Runecrafting xp type skill

well it wasnt

I never thought they would make thing super rare that xp to finish upgrades would take waaay over than getting 99 rc

and lots of resources

[chrome lantern]

I was never opposed to a new skill but I was definitely opposed to all 3 skills they proposed

[restive storm]

i mean on the plus side those boat upgrades are p much useless

[chrome lantern]

Every blog left me with more questions than answers

[round lintel]

useless for a main, for example on an iron max efficient trawling is a rosewood boat

sure you can go by ironwood boat

but in the grand scheme you lose too much time trying to catch up on shoals

[restive storm]

yeah prob get more food just doing zulrah for raw sharks

[sacred skiff]

There will (probably) eventually be content where they aren't useless, but def useless fn yeah

[carmine junco]

In no world is zulrah more efficient for food gathering than trawling.

[round lintel]

I think th fastest food to gather is Karambwans then Trawling

then anglers with demonic worms

[meager flame]

oh yeah no thats not even close to the actual fishing trawler lol

[round lintel]

diabolic*

[meager flame]

much less sailing trawling lol

[restive storm]

i mean if you refuse to do trawling without bis setup

then its prob better to just do zulrah than farm 25k frost drags for the hull to do max effic trawling

[round lintel]

Ive done it without BIS

I said BIS is matters there

[restive storm]

right but for the noobs who refuse to do anything without absolute bis

[carmine junco]

You can so easily gather bluefins or halibut for far, far more than zulrah will ever drop.

[meager flame]

to put it into perspective

[carmine junco]

And my boat is hardly bis

[meager flame]

im pretty sure you dont get 100 shark/hr at zulrah

even if you include the lures and pretend they dont take time to use lol

[chrome lantern]

Sharks are such a joke

[carmine junco]

Max efficiency zulrah is what, 34kc an hour?

You're getting maybe a shark drop and Manta ray drop on rate

[obsidian venture]

45

[meager flame]

ya the biggest issue is that even if you had a pretty unrealistically high kc/hr

[round lintel]

Irons with absolute max are not that many but if you are a main in absolute max getting 34 kills an hr at zulrah for food... idk

[meager flame]

you'd be eating food while you're doing it lol

[restive storm]

alright guys my point is that if you refuse to do trawling without having a max efficiency boat theres better ways to spend ur time than afking 25k frost drags

i wasnt doing math over here lol

[meager flame]

tbh im probably destined for the trawling boat upgrades after i get this inq helm

[round lintel]

I mean again as a main probably only worth boat to max is the barracudas one

[tacit wharf]

u dont need anywhere near 25k frost dragons for a trawling boat

[round lintel]

but as an iron you'd def wanna grind that max trawling boat

[tacit wharf]

u dont

[round lintel]

cuz also is your combar boat

[tacit pendant]

Honestly the more time that passes the more im just ok with trawling as is

[chrome lantern]

You can mostly avoid the krakens

[tacit wharf]

0 reason to have a dragon keel

[chrome lantern]

On west marlins

[tacit wharf]

ya a few repair kits an hr if yr with others

[meager flame]

i've mostly recovered from my initial sailing ptsd that i got my first 50 sheets from

so hopefully i can get the nails and get out getting the rest of the sheets lol

[chrome lantern]

(2 cannons built)

[tacit wharf]

addy keel, cuz what iron is blowing rune just to upgrade to dragon down the line

[chrome lantern]

I should probably do enough to at least get the hull upgraded at this point tbh

But cba

Maybe if I ever go get the 32k marlins I need to extend all my stamina potions I will care

[meager flame]

yeah i kinda want to just upgrade my food/potions/etc before the raid releases

[chrome lantern]

The real answer is that I won't care about grinding dragon sheets/nails until after I get an imbued heart

[round lintel]

I personally just wanna be ready in case some end game content gets added

[chrome lantern]

rn I can at least say I'll get some tasks for wyrms/dragons on the way

[chrome lantern]

You know how the game works. We'll have months on months of advanced notice

[round lintel]

Besides im close to 99 prayer

[round lintel]

im bout to lock in cox after leagues, my brain cant stand detours

[meager flame]

tbh i thought i had less time for pnm before the maggot king stuff but now that im thinking july or august

im gonna have some downtime lol

[chrome lantern]

I can't stand doing only one piece of content xd

[round lintel]

that only applies at whisp or levi

at least for me

[chrome lantern]

A big part of why I'm not done with any of the raids yet

[chrome lantern]

Actually dt2 is one of the rare exceptions where I just turbo locked in and finished the whole log other than pets because I was enjoying them so much

For all 4

[round lintel]

I enjoy Vard

I hate duke

I can stand Levi

[chrome lantern]

My hot take is that I preferred duke before the changes

[round lintel]

Whisp is dog poo without a shadow

[chrome lantern]

I did 438 whisperer with a toxic trident

Eye also more than good enough

[round lintel]

Eye gives more 3 min kills maybe a 2:40

compared to a shadow...

[chrome lantern]

The worst part of that experience was using forgotten brews xd