game-update

[meager flame]

they might or might not who knows lol

its just the basic concept of getting teams of people together and loading them in with the objective of looting/killing each other and then getting out with what they can get would work

very well

and not rely on a lot of the organic stuff that can go super wrong in the wild

[restive storm]

idk... we're just so down bad with the wildy im begging them to not go try another minigame when we already have 6

[ancient ember]

the team's looking into this 🙏

[zenith prairie]

this is fantastic

[restive storm]

really just some incredible stuff happening here thats so funny

[teal hinge]

inb4 roll back, sorry about the Magus hank

[dry pond]

tbf jagex the aggro range changes are worth the 40% price increase

[silk thicket]

Lmaooo wtf

[meager flame]

lmao its at least hilarious

hate to see what update days have turned into though

[brisk hill]

This is the correct take

[restive storm]

its not even update day anymore its like "minor bugfix/bug introduction" day

[silk thicket]

I have faith, a qol update, pvp channel etc all show they care and want to give us updates

[meager flame]

ya its pretty much "we changed anything please get in the nearest bomb shelter while you wait for the hotfixes"

[restive storm]

i agree i think they WANT to give us updates, but re: what goblin said earlier about "community sentiment" i just read that as, its totally not gonna happen lol

so i wouldnt hold ur breath lol

[meager flame]

i mean its not his call he's just trying to talk to people without saying stuff he can't say

[brisk hill]

Ppl pay more already on p servers. Almost like as a for profit company they’d wanna capture those profits

[tame sparrow]

The multi boss update is ridiculous whats the point of even having theescape caves

[restive storm]

i do agree, delete the escape caves in their entirety, they suck

[dry pond]

integrity unpolled change btw

[brisk hill]

Most wildy updates are. Welcome gamer

[tame sparrow]

wonder which mod decided it xd

[meager flame]

its gotta be that way

[wispy current]

Too much food in lms gagek

[meager flame]

theres like

[brisk hill]

If they polled wildy changes we’d be end up scrapping the poll & remove wildy

[restive storm]

escape caves ABSOLUTELY needed to go.... what i dont understand is how did they only make one tiny little spawn region when you come out lmao

[meager flame]

if i had to guess theres probably 30% of the total playerbase that will automatically vote no

if its about the wilderness

[silk thicket]

if only people would engage in the content more or ask us to explain why things sound bad for pvmer but actually aren’t we’d get somewhere

[meager flame]

and a lot of the time stuff slips in because they're asleep and dont vote

[restive storm]

anyone arguing escape caves shoulda been left as is... is absolutely nuts

[tame sparrow]

thats fine like if it was a random exit spawn in a wide area itd be fine

[meager flame]

but any time something big is happening they turn out

without fail

[silk thicket]

Like less worlds sounds bad for ovmer but more pkers fighting each other instead woo

[tame sparrow]

but literally impossible to escape when you have a duo pking you

only possible way is to have a scout and logout in time on vetion

[fierce belfry]

only way to feasibly escape a multi team btw

[oblique mesa]

The bosses are in multi, you should be dead if you are found by multiple people

[brisk hill]

Seems redundant putting you outside the caves though

[restive storm]

you shouldnt really be expecting to "escape"
a multi team without divine intervention imo

if you're reliably doing that then its bad design

[meager flame]

thats kind of the problem though

[fierce belfry]

haha

[tame sparrow]

yes but spoon feeding you into the rest of someones team is a bit stupid

[meager flame]

you get that and then the feedback is omg this fucking sucks you just auto die

[fierce belfry]

do you want people to be loot pinatas in your game or not

[restive storm]

yes this i agree as well

[meager flame]

and then jagex makes it easier to live

[silk thicket]

If ur alone go singles bosses tho

[meager flame]

and people are like omg me and the boys cant kill anyoneeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[fierce belfry]

they should move every single wildy content outside and let the pkers hit eachother

[meager flame]

and it flips back and forth

[brisk hill]

It’s a food chain

[fierce belfry]

the state wildy has gotten to in the recent years is so bad

[restive storm]

id rather kill pkers, but since i cant do that with the pj timers, i guess loot pinatas are all we got

[brisk hill]

There is an ecosystem

[meager flame]

yeah its currently experiencing an extinction event

not too much longer now

[fierce belfry]

as it should

[patent cargo]

Scorpia

[fierce belfry]

pkers are nothing more than a random distraction thats basically the same as disconnecting every 15 minutes

[silk thicket]

Hmm why ppl want the caves gone?

[restive storm]

have u ever been in them?

[fierce belfry]

just let it die

[restive storm]

the same reasons pvmers whine about "chip damage"

[silk thicket]

Ye ofc but I mean now why are the caves a problem

[restive storm]

it just sucks

oh i mean now idc really

[silk thicket]

Now u dont run thru them

[restive storm]

i was meaning before

[silk thicket]

Ye I think keeping them there is kinda cool mind game idk, it’s prob easier to run singles strip in 99% of cases but idk at least there’s another option

[restive storm]

really shocking that your opinion is just "let it die" and still want to be the arbiter of wildy updates -.-

[fierce belfry]

hey i did nothing besides pk between 2008 and 2017

i jumped the ship

not too late for you either

[restive storm]

i stopped playin a while ago

[silk thicket]

[restive storm]

maybe if they make wildy updates ill come back

[fierce belfry]

impossible

wildy is fundamentally broken

[meager flame]

hey im in this picture

lmao

[restive storm]

ever since it became the streamer zone i agree

[meager flame]

i too just abandoned ship because like idk what else can you do if you really pay attention to osrs

gotta learn to have fun killing bosses

[restive storm]

https://klipy.com/gifs/absolutely-not-dan-levy

[fierce belfry]

just make it completely opt in like rs3 did or move all the bis uniques outside so the "wildy isnt mandatory content" argument actually works

[restive storm]

now this is just a terrible take lol

[oblique mesa]

Amen brother, lets also add MTX like rs3 to help keep membs cost low

[winged mantle]

When they removed wildy in rs2 the game felt wrong

[restive storm]

maybe add a new combat system while we're at it

[meager flame]

thats because it was

[fierce belfry]

funny guy

the game changed man

[meager flame]

pvp and the wilderness were like

idk how to even describe it

[fierce belfry]

unlike 2008 the state of the wildy is unsalvageable

[meager flame]

they were a lot more important back then

[silk thicket]

It’s totally optional outside of chaos altar tbf

Oops bad typo

[meager flame]

i actually think that whole moment somehow trickled down to today

[restive storm]

they could literally just revert the pj timer and itd be like 7-8x more active than it is now

[meager flame]

that was the first time they deleted pvp players from the game

and it never really recovered even though it tried

and it also created like

a fuck ton of people that see the game without pvp entirely

[fierce belfry]

its because the prey and hunter idea is just bad

[meager flame]

and prefer it

before that it was just a fact that the wild was there

[fierce belfry]

wildy used to work because people went into it actively seeking fights

[meager flame]

ya because back then

pvp didnt get split in a thousand directions

[analog crow]

Wildy is just the old jank ass area where you don’t bring your gear

[restive storm]

agree, pj timer making it so that the hunter can not be in-turn, hunted, is really bad for the wildy

[winged mantle]

Pvp isn't compatible with the iron gamemode

[meager flame]

it was basically wilderness or duel arena for pvp with stakes

and now you can do that in a million flavors in a million places

[silk thicket]

Not bringing ur gear is how u die

[fierce belfry]

unfortunately for you, theres probably approx 40 times more ironmen than active pvpers

[analog crow]

Don’t care

[winged mantle]

Why is that unfortunate

[brisk hill]

Omg rs3 suggestions? Eoc when

[obsidian venture]

Nah

They can update it. They just need to actually focus on what they’d want out of it. Outside of pking though, it has garnered more use

[restive storm]

wonder how that happened 🤔

[analog crow]

If someone wants to spend 3 minutes killing me for 10k loot feel free

[silk thicket]

seeing all these ppl not knowing the fun they missing out on

[fierce belfry]

human nature?

[meager flame]

i do think it was like

[restive storm]

lack of any sort of updates too look at the entire game itself rn, we havent gotten updates, and now we're down like 70-80k players from where we were

[meager flame]

heavily jagex influenced over time

[winged mantle]

Also where are you getting these stats from

[brisk hill]

Afk my npc is more fun. Only 210 hours until my drop!

[restive storm]

if you dont update something obv its gonna die

[meager flame]

imagine if we could go back in time and like

[fierce belfry]

making pvp updates is like impossible

[minor whale]

Squintzz you are legit the only person who keeps asking for the timer removed
People don't want it removed man
They are actively adding it to more worlds, and it's definitely not why Wildy is dead
There's just so many worlds with such spread out content that hotspots don't mean anything anymore, and one person hopping worlds ahead of you in the list means everywhere you check is empty

[meager flame]

enlighten jagex to not intentionally sabotage pures/treat them with disdain or delete the wilderness etc

the way people view it now

would probably be very different

[brisk hill]

There has to be something said about this though:

you are reducing the amount of PvP interactions between pkers when you don’t allow a pker to intervene against another pker

[restive storm]

"its not why the wildy is dead" and somehow its less active than ever, and has been trending down since its implementation 🤔 Theyve also flat out refused to give us the data they allegedly "had" saying that its been a net positive for activity

[brisk hill]

Lots of words could’ve been more clear, but hopefully it gets to e point accross

[fierce belfry]

wildy is dead because people realized that actively wasting their time not progressing their accounts is unfun

[meager flame]

because the crazy stuff people feel about pvp now was absent back in the beginning for years

[minor whale]

Sure, skulled pjing skulled is valid and should be brought back, but blaming the Wildy being dead on PJ timer as a whole is just very not accurate

[fierce belfry]

the game moved on without you

[meager flame]

so its a bit manufactured

but i think now its kind of unfixable

[analog crow]

Something something chronological fallacy

[restive storm]

i mean.... it happened literally overnight with the update man lol

[silk thicket]

Tbf there are ppl who don’t play main game to ask for its removal (but they quit over it) but I agree with the rest of ur msg & i personally think it’s super unclear whether it’s good or bad

[restive storm]

one day there was lots of people out there, and the next there wasnt

[winged mantle]

I wonder if the devs even think pvp is good for the game

[minor whale]

Shit is just way too spread out and natural interactions don't play out when you have a 1/300 shot at finding someone and someone else finding them first is nearly guaranteed

[meager flame]

i mean idk if its good for the game now that we're where we are

its just a constant stupid battlefield lol

[winged mantle]

Current day

[languid tundra]

Ahh I missed it, so what was the escape cave change they’ve just reverted?

[winter hearth]

would depend who you ask, same as it is for players! but on a broader 'the team' level, yes PvP's good for the game and important, we've just struggled to find footing adapting to changes in player attitudes across the MMO space more broadly as well as within OSRS

[meager flame]

with like a bunch of players entrenched in saying it sucks no matter what etc

[fierce belfry]

2015 back in the good old days when ur mystic set just randomly had a fall in of 15 ppl with ahrims and tsotds

[minor whale]

Any time you left multi bosses you didn't enter escape caves

[meager flame]

but i think if we could've avoided players feeling like that and building those camps

[fierce belfry]

im sure that made ppl quit when it was removed

[meager flame]

it would be great

[fierce belfry]

x0

[wheat ravine]

pvp is the only reason i play this game to this day

[meager flame]

like it used to be

[restive storm]

https://klipy.com/gifs/dog-crying-meme-doggo-crys

[winged mantle]

With the lack of updates for pvp - real pvp. It's kinda obvious

[silk thicket]

Indeed but the issue is the “sentiment” thing - if reduced worlds were polled it’s fail bcos most ppl’s first reaction would be “pkers find pvmer easier”

[meager flame]

well that could be explained in another way

[winter hearth]

edited to be a little clearer

[minor whale]

Oh I totally agree it'd fail, but they add worlds all the time without a poll which dilutes pvp

[meager flame]

they might think its good but doesn't get enough interest to justify it to the boss

thats probably the biggest hurdle now

it just sucks that we got here

[fierce belfry]

pvp is just so disconnected with the rest of the game

[languid tundra]

So it was just throwing you outside like the solo variant?

[restive storm]

i will continue to cope for slightly longer with the edit

[minor whale]

Yup

[meager flame]

i do think pvp has an argument as like

advertisement budget almost

i think a lot of people watch pvp youtube videos for example

[fierce belfry]

i dont have an issue with pvp existing

[restive storm]

even say you condense things... like what does it matter, if i see westham get on me, im just gonna freeze him and log out in 2 seconds and go to another world

What does "condensing" activity do for us if thats a thing lol

[meager flame]

but pvp for streamers and stuff isn't exactly the same as pvp for regular people

so im not sure that lines up all the time

[fierce belfry]

i have an issue with being forced into loot pinata scenarios when theres zero benefit for me to fight back no matter what

[wispy current]

U are so bitter man get over it🤣 ita just game

[winter hearth]

Like it is important to us, it's extremely marketable (which everybody's aware of) and players in every annual survey ever say that they think it's an important part of the game. Problem is that a lot of the data we get from things like "Would you PvP more if we did X thing?" 'Yeah absolutely!!' doesn't often materialise and we just need to do a better job with it

[winged mantle]

I think the main problem - irons have no incentive to hunt/ learn pvp. Most don't know how to pk or the amount of time to get to that lvl of pvp. A lot of pvp experience is negative or fish in a barrel. How do you provide incentives for so many different types of players in current day?

[fierce belfry]

i assure u im not bitter

[meager flame]

i think the iron game mode is just fundamentally not going to work out with pvp updates

thats fine but like

[dry pond]

Genuine question r.e. the escape cave changes @ancient ember - what decides whether something will be an unpolled change or integrity change - because this seems like a really wild unpolled change

[wheat ravine]

i think clans should be more of a focus for pvp. its a lot easier for new players to participate in a multi fight

[fierce belfry]

i take part in as many pvp gamemodes as i feasibly can

[winter hearth]

Counterpoint from a game design perspective is - do you need to? Does every piece of content produced for any game need to incentivise every single player to do it? (not just an OSRS thing)

[restive storm]

yeah definitely have noticed that over the years... "i'd pvp more if it was a fair 1v1 fight, i'd pvp more if there was a skull prevention button" to name two that really havent panned out much/at all

[fierce belfry]

doesnt mean i think wildy is in a good state lol

[minor whale]

I don't know the exact term for it but there's this thing where people want to want to do something, and say that it only needs 1 change for them to want to do it, then the change happens and they just need 1 more thing to want to do it

[wheat ravine]

some sort of area where clans could fight for territory/control would be sick

[minor whale]

And the Wildy as a whole has a lot of that

[silk thicket]

Yeah it’s a tough spot to be in as a dev because it’s unclear what would be impactful - esp when a lot of the community basically opt out of it or are too anxious to try it out

[winged mantle]

For irons - if you put upgrades in the wildy then yes

[meager flame]

just because pvp is ultimately abusable in a way like win trading as an obvious example would prevent you from really allowing iron participation

[winter hearth]

for upgrades yeah, problem is not going down that route leads to raw GP route which lead to other problems

[meager flame]

in a healthy way

[minor whale]

Where people want an ideal situation to want to engage with it, but then when it's presented they still don't

[meager flame]

and that extends out beyond that

[fierce belfry]

u could just do different rewards

[meager flame]

like buying protection for your iron etc

[languid tundra]

The issue with pvp always has been it depends who you ask, if you ask the person getting spawn killed the second they try do wildy pvm, they hate it, however if you ask the smaller portion of the player base (the people doing the spawn killing) that are making money, they love it

[silk thicket]

U can always give keys to ur main or a friend and buy bonds with it idk

[meager flame]

it kind of undermines what the mode is about

[fierce belfry]

if all rewards from the wildy was wilderness contained and only buffed pvp/pvm in the wildy

it wouldnt have nearly as many issues

[tame sparrow]

we do have incentive though, anti-pking/escaping takes some time to get good at & VW/ROTG are quite nice

[restive storm]

I think this is absolutely the point - it doesn't and shouldn't - but the problem stems from the data is being used by players who have no interest in the area to begin with, to then shape the area... so it drives out the native players and then we get left just trying to make it less and less appealing to the original crowd

[fierce belfry]

the rev weaps are good example of this

[winged mantle]

The amount I've anti pked is not enough incentive

[silk thicket]

But generally even if ur freeze logging that’s engaging in PvP enough imo, no biggie

[winter hearth]

I do kinda wonder whether or not using GP from coffer for Iron deaths might alleviate a good chunk, but there's still little you can do to offer anti-PK incentive that isn't prone to abuse

[meager flame]

it would just be insanely difficult to come up with a way to make people trying to pk you not feel like an annoyance for irons

[winged mantle]

It's a hard problem to fix. Imo if you are in the wildy, pking should be core to the experience for any account

[fierce belfry]

its impossible

[winged mantle]

If i as an iron had disposable sets I would risk them

[fierce belfry]

but at least stuff like the escape caves made it so you didnt fall over immediately every single time

[meager flame]

because you'd probably mess up and give them some way to like basically get free loot or rewards somehow

[silk thicket]

Indeed which is why we gotta brainstorm ways to increase pker vs pker interactions - eg manked’s rev idea with single entry/exit where pkers hop + find eachother

[minor whale]

I mean, a set as simple as black d'hide, barrows gloves, rcb is pretty disposable and easy to replace

[tame sparrow]

it is inherently annoying but the idea is risk v reward. Cognitively just hard to rationalise that when you come to expect free loot without dying after a while

[winter hearth]

I do look at stuff like scav/free loadouts in things like Tarkov or Arc Raiders and wonder if they're translatable in a way that isn't just 'want to rag? take this!'

[winged mantle]

Perhaps repairable with gold

[gleaming karma]

Great more emphasis on PVP so gold farmers can abuse bot farms more.

Thought about going for VW this week but jagex said fuck you irons real quick unexpectedly. Thanks for catering to the gold farmers instead of real players

[dry pond]

It's just extremely difficult to find a healthy balance for irons

[minor whale]

Limited amount per day, or increasing fee per set if you die in a certain time frame

[meager flame]

yeah so you're basically building an army of players on a certain mode that just dont want pvp and would potentially reject the updates

because they find that content annoying

[silk thicket]

Kept forgetting nezzy helm protects over d spear on my iron now I have 0

[winter hearth]

reverted the offending change, should be no different than before for you beast

[meager flame]

so you've really gotta figure out how to make pvp fun and rewarding for the people who actually want to pvp in the first place

[minor whale]

Free the first time you take it, rapidly scales if you take more each time you take it within x amount of time after dying to prevent ragging multiple times

[ashen yarrow]

ironman have incentive to learn how to survive/escape if they do wilderness activities, sadly most of the times they just start using alts instead

[restive storm]

BOY am i glad i didnt resub to head out there with you @zinc galleon woulda had like one hour of content

[meager flame]

rather than lure in people that dont want it to begin with

[fierce belfry]

only way to actually do it would be to contain wildy into its own economy

[subtle iris]

Well, half of the pvp that goes on is raggers sitting on chaos altar for 12 hour shifts so, not great.

[fierce belfry]

that way there wouldnt be any issues with irons getting loot from anti pking

[winged mantle]

I bring an anti pk set when I go wildy

[fierce belfry]

but thats just a nightmare

[meager flame]

yeah

and then you get the people who actually just hate pvp no matter what

and you cant fix them either lol

[fierce belfry]

for sure

wildy is just not compatible with the modern game

its the toughest pill to swallow

[wheat ravine]

wildy is fine lol

[winged mantle]

@winter hearth is it possible to poll actually pkers if the team comes up with some ideas for pvp?

Not people that have done damage in wilderness

[meager flame]

yeah they've already done that i think right?

[fierce belfry]

they did that b4 yes

[meager flame]

oh i see what you mean

[winged mantle]

I got to vote in that

Lol

[meager flame]

they should be able to upgrade the requirements to be counted as someone that pvps

[silk thicket]

Idk I feel like even pvmers that go into wildy engage enough to have the right to vote

[spiral merlin]

is this a rollback?

[winter hearth]

it's possible to poll just about anybody, but comes with optics issues, and some eyebrow raising where 'if we want more people who aren't established PKers to give it a go, is it effective data to survey people who are already established PKers'

[fierce belfry]

all pvpers voting that all pvmers in the wildy should instantly fall over when touched

i see no issue with this

[dry pond]

One thing to help PvMers in wildy, is bosses should target/prioritize skulled players over unskulled players

[ashen yarrow]

not account rollbak just reverting some updates

[minor whale]

Yeah I mean
If you're attacked 500 times in the Wildy I'd say you're probably allowed to vote on things happening there, even if you're never the one attacking

[spiral merlin]

great ty ❤️

[winged mantle]

Mmm yeah

[wheat ravine]

the reddit "vote no to pvp" hive mind is concerning

[fierce belfry]

its not weird at all man

[winter hearth]

We did sort of 'soft' attempt this with Emir's Arena reward kits that were easy to use and repaired with gold on death, but they fell short

[meager flame]

this is rough because then they've gotta face the music on what people really think about being loot pinatas

[fierce belfry]

pkers are nothing more than a genuine annoyance for most of the playerbase like it or not

[wispy current]

Just make old pj timer 30+ thx bro 👍

[fierce belfry]

its not the good old days anymore

[meager flame]

which they should accept the verdict on that but lol

[silk thicket]

Get them to visit https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1465348114033541183 and we help them survive their encounters

[meager flame]

they're gonna need some new ideas for the wild after that

[wheat ravine]

but you dont have to deal with them for 99.9% of the game

[silk thicket]

Ez

[wheat ravine]

i dont get it

[winged mantle]

But yeah back to my point - iron you do things that benifit your acc. If you're in the wilderness nothing from pking that account gives you anything besides a couple bonds if you are lucky

[restive storm]

they arent allowed to just say "pvp is bad" in there so idrk if theyd wanna be involved lol

[minor whale]

The unfortunate thing is there'll absolutely never be a suggestion for the Wildy that's so overwhelmingly popular to counter the ~20% of people who will always vote no to it, and then it has to convince 95% of the rest of the people who don't ALWAYS vote no to vote yes to pass

[fierce belfry]

but you do for the other 5%

its not deeper than that

[restive storm]

correct which is why it needs integrity updates not more polling

[meager flame]

i think the best way to handle this is to not put irons in that situation to begin with honestly

[dry pond]

Because irons hold all the risk and no reward

[meager flame]

because at least then they aren't in direct opposition

[fierce belfry]

yes

opt in

[silk thicket]

Hmm what if there was fuller explanations about why it’s beneficial to all? Even pvmers

[minor whale]

Unpolled changes while Jagex is currently in public perception hot water is probably not something they're keen on doing right now

[fierce belfry]

its just how it is

[subtle iris]

I mean, callisto and other bosses drop amazing loot for irons

[meager flame]

its just weird because i think most irons are probably more open minded about some pvp stuff than regular players

[winged mantle]

Irons pking

[subtle iris]

We just can’t do shit about it

[fierce belfry]

theres genuinely no reason something like wildy clue scrolls should even exist

[restive storm]

this isnt entirely true, you can still get a loot key, die to a main/someone else and still get loot

[fierce belfry]

u dont risk anything

[restive storm]

so there is still incentive lol

[meager flame]

just because they understand what its like to be the minority and have to explain why their updates are needed

[fierce belfry]

the only thing that happens is u have to degear and waste 2 minutes everytime u get one

[meager flame]

i'd actually love to see the stats on that

[subtle iris]

But as an iron, who gives a shit

[winged mantle]

Loot keys don't progress the iron

[dry pond]

Not really very ironman though is it

[meager flame]

which players are most likely to vote no to pvp

etc

[cedar quail]

such a roundabout method that wouldnt benefit iron onlys

[dry pond]

What benefit does it give to that account

[meager flame]

lmao theres no way jagex ever gives us that ammo

but i really want to know

[restive storm]

idk man buy bonds or somethin, to say you get nothing is just flat out wrong lol

[fierce belfry]

it doesnt help the pvmers and it certainly doesnt help the pkers when people who dont pk get irritated by something so meaningless

[oblique mesa]

You can also just... pk on the iron for fun? You don't need to be in gigamax to PK. Arkan blade was a great addition

[restive storm]

you also get loot from the wildy that you go there for i.e. voidwaker/dpick

[dry pond]

you're missing the point though

[meager flame]

this is rough because its kind of insane nonsense to do that

[dry pond]

the point is if you PK another player there is no benefit to that iron account

[cedar quail]

yeah my favorite thing to do as an iron: waste 250k dying with an arkan blade in pvp

[meager flame]

you'd rather just crab up a new account and do a few quests to pvp

[oblique mesa]

I do it 😭

[restive storm]

pking isnt for everyone man. its OK that it isnt for you

[meager flame]

rather than grind for your sets on an iron

[restive storm]

you dont need to participate lol

[fierce belfry]

you have to participate tho its not exactly optional

[dry pond]

I have an alt for PKing and scouting, but i mostly play my iron because that's the most fun

[cedar quail]

you do if you want anything from the wildy

[subtle iris]

Bro wants us to just lay down and die in the wildy

[restive storm]

just click barrage and log out (at least for now)

[dry pond]

you definitely need to participate when a bloke in 100m of gear is attacking you

[fierce belfry]

i have no issues with singles dw

[dry pond]

It's ok to admit you suck at PvP and want loot pinatas @restive storm

[fierce belfry]

but its definitely just annoying for no reason

[meager flame]

tbf most people crying about dying in the wild while doing wild activities other than pvp

are kinda silly

[restive storm]

no toxic pls

i just try my best out there

[meager flame]

you can run out there in 50k of gear and smash anything lol

and teleport back instantly

[dry pond]

i can setup a scout and farm spindel until the cows come home

[fierce belfry]

i dont think ppl are mad about the 50k

they are mad about the timeloss

[meager flame]

yeah its the minor time losses

[dry pond]

and not die at all, but pkers running in is just disruptive so i tele out immediately

[meager flame]

some people just like

[fierce belfry]

how much u lose on wildy deaths is kinda irrelevant

[dry pond]

because there's zero benefit of me killing them

[meager flame]

go nuclear when that happens

[oblique mesa]

But the timeloss is offset by the juiced rewards you get

[fierce belfry]

u lose 1m who rlly cares about that either

[meager flame]

and other people kinda just take their 1 min break and dont care

[fierce belfry]

risk or reward except theres no real risk, the only "risk" is losing 5 minutes every 20 or so minutes

[winged mantle]

It's an impossible fix. Remove the wildy $$ and uniques and why would people go into the wildy? What would the pkers do outside of chaos alter and bh

[dry pond]

that's 25% of your time being binned off though

[meager flame]

i do agree with them on some level that the whole situation got stupid

like

[fierce belfry]

thats my point yes

its just unfun

[dry pond]

With VW done now I have no reason (behind clues) to do wildy

[meager flame]

i risk nothing to go kill things that do nothing to get big rewards because someone might log in and left click me

[winged mantle]

Same

[meager flame]

its kind of a shit loop

[winged mantle]

Give irons a reason to pk and we may have something

Just sayin

[restive storm]

I mean now that i maxed i have no reason to play the game w/ pvp being dead, thats just kinda the way the game is

If its fun for you, do it, if it isnt fun dont do it

[dry pond]

Not everybody wants to PvP though, and being forced into that environment to gain PvM upgrades is a weird feeling

[winter hearth]

the problem is navigating doing this with 'disincentivising Irons from killing their own main to reap that same benefit', which is really hard to design around

[dry pond]

WoW doesn't force you to do PvP to get raid gear

[patent cargo]

Its nowhere near the top gp per hour tho

[restive storm]

bro nobody is forcing you to do it, you literally just said you dont have to go there anymore

[winged mantle]

Dam monkeys paw

[fierce belfry]

its not actually

[meager flame]

yeah you cant really reward irons for getting kills with benefits that matter

because then you just win trade

[wispy current]

Good thing this isnt wow

[fierce belfry]

every high lvl piece of content ingame is 2x the amount of money u get from wildy but no timeloss

[dry pond]

But you NEED to do that content if you want voidwaker, which is arguably top 3 BIS for a large number of bosses

[meager flame]

its probably best to just not include them in pvp like that

optionally let them play anyways just for fun but

they probably shouldn't really be the intended audience

[restive storm]

ok and you NEED to do colo to get a quiver, which is bis for anywhere you range stuff. I dont find it fun so i just dont do it

see how easy that is?

[tropic kelp]

b claws are more than fine in most places i dont see the issue

[wheat ravine]

so if you want bis gear, you have to do challenging content, which includes killing bosses in the dangerous area

makes sense

[dry pond]

that's why i said top 3 BIS

[tropic kelp]

you can use those if you dont like the wildy

[fierce belfry]

just imagine wildy like ur doing a slayer task at abyssal demons but every 20 minutes lizardsquad ddoses your wifi connection

[dry pond]

BIS doesnt mean "more than fine"

[winged mantle]

If pking got me points I could exchange for good supplies I might consider tbh. Deleting the loot keys

[meager flame]

sounds like raiding on wow whatever year that was lmao

[dry pond]

Yeah like a supply vendor or something would be cool

[winged mantle]

Would have to be substantial

But the abuse from main to iron

[silk thicket]

Too easily abused

[winged mantle]

Ye

[restive storm]

idk... just trying to make the wildy more and more to appeal to ironmen is going more and more in the wrong direction

[fierce belfry]

horrible times man

[silk thicket]

It’s okay for irons being exempt from PvP tbh

[dry pond]

unless you made it for everybody but irons got 50% more points

[restive storm]

its like half the reason its so dead rn anyway lol

[silk thicket]

I think just like, idk, the mindset shift would help a lot

[dry pond]

but rewards were non tradable or something

[winged mantle]

Either work with the 33% or whatever that play iron or exclude irons

[silk thicket]

And generally just easier to find other pkers so irons aren’t as disrupted

[tropic kelp]

whats the reason for a main to go to wildy other than revs when talking from a pvm persepctive

[dry pond]

is iron % that low?

[silk thicket]

Those would be my main focuses personally

[subtle iris]

as if being a main isn’t literally pay to play and credit card warrior lol.

[minor whale]

What

[restive storm]

pking/skilling ig

[cedar quail]

"it's so dead" is not because iron exists, it's because they have done nothing to accomodate the playstyle

[restive storm]

bro what?

[dry pond]

a lot of herb secondaries are from the wildy bosses

[winged mantle]

Yama week 1 stats showed about 33% of ranked kc was irons

[silk thicket]

But yh I also think the ironmen being the issue thing is a meme anyway, like that other guy said they prob used to having to explain why updates are needed for their game mode

[tropic kelp]

yes but you dont care about those on a main

on an iron its pretty good

[dry pond]

100%, because you go hit money dragon or money snake instead

but they're a great source of supps on an early/mid iron

[fierce belfry]

going 7x dry for vw blade at vetion banked me like 2k sanfews 👍

[winged mantle]

People only go into the wildy to get something. Pkers want gp and a fight. Irons want upgrades/ resources. Mains want gp

[dry pond]

Arguably the best to go dry at for supps and secondaries

[tropic kelp]

good for your eventual pnm grind

[restive storm]

dw man i did like 5k vetion on the pure and i was str8 up not having a good time

[dry pond]

Exactly right. Irons arent looking for a fight at all

[fierce belfry]

definitely

[winged mantle]

Which is the problem

[fierce belfry]

the other two bosses droptable is so ass

[restive storm]

right, so why are we trying to craft a way, for them to be the beneficiaries of an area, where the whole idea is you can fight other players

[winged mantle]

Why have content in a place that pking isn't core to the incentive

[restive storm]

if they just dont want a fight in the first place

[silk thicket]

IMO it’s just a crazy mindset that ppl should have the right to not engage with PvP in the wilderness. I don’t think that’s iron specific - plenty of mains click bear and do revs for gp but don’t wanna invest in learning to fight back

[warm epoch]

i fully agree, we should move all the uniques out of the wilderness so we can just have gold farmers and pkers

[restive storm]

what is this just about the VW still?

[fierce belfry]

idk about all

[warm epoch]

no its purely about the rev bow for me

[fierce belfry]

only vw is actually necessary

[restive storm]

just nerf the rev bow so it isnt good in pvm outside of the wildy man

im so tired of this argument lol

[fierce belfry]

one could argue webweaver for awakened levi i guess lol

[silk thicket]

Rev bow only rly good to get vw tho? And at phosani

[warm epoch]

exactly what i want it for

[silk thicket]

Oh

[fierce belfry]

phosani too yh

[restive storm]

just remove VW spec in pvm as well while we're at it so its pvp only

then we can move on

[silk thicket]

Ye the time for Rev weapons is crazy long

[fierce belfry]

ur cooking now

but its too late for that

[north verge]

pvmer tears goin wild in this chat rn

[restive storm]

how is it too late?

[tropic kelp]

i think they should give mains more incentives to go into the wildy but also so that its not just pvp related. something that would make it fun for both pvmers and pvpers

but idk what

[silk thicket]

Aren’t b claws better dps at 90% of content anyways

[fierce belfry]

not as far as i know

[silk thicket]

Anti pking ez gp

[restive storm]

Raids 4 megarare idea: a better version of VW so i dont gotta listen to yall anymore

[fierce belfry]

but the big usage case do be phosani and the kisten will replace it there

[wispy current]

People would mald so hard if thy couldnt use vw in pvm anymore

[tropic kelp]

most people just bitch and moan about raggers rather than actually trying to survive

[restive storm]

more or less than they already whine about having to go to the wildy to get it u reckon?

[tacit wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/doja-cat-star-wars-gif-25078126

[meager flame]

tbf we're real close to vw not really being in the pvm rotation

[patent cargo]

Higher gp per hour or skilling xp per hour and create a noticably slower way for the clog outside of wildy so that there is an actual balance between risk reward

[meager flame]

its super good and its almost the best spec weapon in tons of cases

but the niche scape is going pretty hard

[fierce belfry]

just toa pnm vard left?

[silk thicket]

Ik we gotta teach them it’s ez to escape somehow but it’s hard when they don’t ask

[winged mantle]

Nex

[fierce belfry]

actually idk about vard calcs after rancour release

[fierce belfry]

zcb bis there

but ye before zcb

[winged mantle]

Lol

[meager flame]

yeah im not sure about vard its probably close

[warm epoch]

for me its about being interrupted and someone else being able to waste my time tbh

escaping is easy af

[tropic kelp]

so like a dragon pick kinda situation?

[winged mantle]

Just get a zcb

[silk thicket]

I think vw better than zcb at nex

[fierce belfry]

its not

[cedar quail]

https://tenor.com/view/stonks-chart-stocks-going-up-gif-15813050

[silk thicket]

Ah

[winged mantle]

Trio melee vw fang

[tropic kelp]

yeah they are not willing to learn

[silk thicket]

I always got sad when my spec didn’t land with zcb

[fierce belfry]

but you bring both yes

[silk thicket]

And fang is bis dps anyway so

Better melee specs

[cedar quail]

"just take stuff away from runescape players" like that isnt the thing they bitch about the most

[north verge]

literally just 10 entangle sacks will get you away from most fights

lol

[meager flame]

also im ngl i didnt really realize this until i used it for fun

[silk thicket]

Ice sacks even better

[north verge]

frfr

[meager flame]

but harm staff is actually fun to use at pnm

[fierce belfry]

i dont think removing vw spec from pvm is gonna help you with getting wildy more active tho respectfully

[meager flame]

its a shame its so hard to get

[tropic kelp]

very true and most pkers are so bad that you can normally either tank your way to the bank or tank the tb duration and escape that way

[gritty frigate]

Member price updates but so many bugs, why dont they just use the money to hire proper qa testers

[wispy current]

Its more to remove the cryonmen

[tropic kelp]

if entangles dont work

[winged mantle]

People will find a reason to go to wildy because it's juiced

[meager flame]

i dont even know why its fun its just slightly faster and throwing fireballs lol

[silk thicket]

I was telegrabbing wines on my iron and a guy logged on me (who pks there) and I switched to mystics w purging staff

[north verge]

if more people gave it a shot they'd realize fighting back in scrub gear can be fun haha

[silk thicket]

He asked for off and hopped

It’s that ez

[winged mantle]

It's incredibly fun if you are there to pk

[patent cargo]

Since escaping is easy wouldnt removing uniques from wildy be beneficial to pkers since a pvmer will easily always escape, going after them is just a waste of time 🤔

[winged mantle]

Or anti

[analog crow]

Is it really that big a deal to let irons put loot keys in deaths coffer or something

[meager flame]

the funniest pks i've ever gotten were on an iron

[winged mantle]

Most haven't learnt or tried to learn

[north verge]

yeah because you can just fund it with a main

[meager flame]

just because its like

[silk thicket]

Thrill of the hunt sir, u try to escape I try to stop u, interesting and engaging content that isn’t repetitive

[north verge]

^^

[meager flame]

its not really supposed to happen and you just look at the guy that just tried to pk your iron crazy

[winged mantle]

I love attacking back and wasting a raggers time

[obsidian venture]

Please make surge sacks tradeable @winter hearth 🤝

[meager flame]

its really just embarrassing for them when they die so its just funny

[hard axle]

The amount of people who try to outrun their pkers instead of freeze logging is fucking mindboggling, especially when they then bitch about how pkers have the advantage

like mfer, pkers have NO advantage

[north verge]

literally all of reddit lol

[hard axle]

skulled = less gear, pvm gear IS pvp gear

[wispy current]

Do ppl even use surge sacks

[meager flame]

also im convinced its the only heavy ballista my iron will ever have in those keys

[north verge]

yea

[hard axle]

black dhide was the biggest fucking atrocity in the wilderness for YEARS

[errant granite]

Fix the dc issue

[north verge]

farmin them sucks thopugh

[fierce belfry]

what lol

[meager flame]

i just cant get myself to go all the way back to demonics for that heavy framelol

[silk thicket]

Who gna take one for the team and tell Reddit to check the pvp discussion channel for escape tips

[fierce belfry]

pkers hold every single card

[winged mantle]

Die in the wildy = have to watch the pov of the pker that killed youfor 1 minute while the game gives you tips on how to anti pk 🤣

[hard axle]

10k wildy boss kc

how bout you

[fierce belfry]

same king

[north verge]

might get banned doin that lol

[silk thicket]

[obsidian venture]

Need to ban wildy alarm (hot take)

[vivid ruin]

🦀 🦀 🦀 🦀 🦀 🦀 🦀 🦀 🦀

[patent cargo]

I dont understand how there's any thrill if youre unable to ever win since they will always escape lol. 100% loss rate is engaging to yall ig

[hard axle]

or move singles wildy boss to 40+

the combination is stupid

[meager flame]

i wouldn't even fix the plugin i'd go fix the content where you can like

[hard axle]

i think i've died maybe <10 times in all 10k kc because it's really that easy to survive lol

[meager flame]

scout for yourself or logout instantly and so on

[hard axle]

maybe <20

[silk thicket]

It’s easy but not guaranteed to escape (if u don’t tele cuz wildy alarm)

[fierce belfry]

yes that is pretty normal

i have died once in 2500 or so vetion

[meager flame]

because the self scout stuff is just

terrible game design

its legit insane

[fierce belfry]

but you still dont hold cards, you have no point in staying, u have zero ko potential

you just get timewasted

[silk thicket]

I farmed like 100m gp on my iron doing wildy agility and the only time I died was when I put my phone down to make my coffee

[north verge]

put all pking in 15 worlds so people can find eachother remove the bosses from non pk worlds boom populated wildy (joking obv)

[silk thicket]

And pker logged in

[hard axle]

wym u have 0 ko potential

[fierce belfry]

(i teled up to 50 people having a wilderness war at annakarl)

[hard axle]

u have supplies to scrap with them

[meager flame]

i actually do think the wilderness shouldn't be enabled on every world

idk how many worlds is correct but all of them is nuts

[hard axle]

they increase over time too

[fierce belfry]

aint no one dying to an ursine chainmace

[north verge]

limiting it would be cool but I think wildy should be locked out to non pk worlds

[hard axle]

so it gets safer and safer

[winged mantle]

As in can't go into the wildy on every world?

[hard axle]

oh you'd be surprised lmao

[meager flame]

yeah

[hard axle]

plenty do

the surprise 40-40

[meager flame]

its because the population of people in the wilderness drops over time

[fierce belfry]

yes people are terrible at the game but you cant rlly argue that can you

[meager flame]

and they keep adding more worlds

so its just like

idk

[fierce belfry]

you still dont benefit from it

[meager flame]

you cant find people lmao

[restive storm]

Huh? Pvmers literally get to log out if they get one freeze, plus have no risk and can bring nutty anti pk weapons, how do pkers hold all the cards

[silk thicket]

Bro I pk’d max set in mystics and dds don’t underestimate a pkers ability to die

[tropic kelp]

but then you would need wildy boss instances or smth

[winged mantle]

Would be sad to be fighting over vetion in the 1 aussie world

[north verge]

yeah the world increase is insane I can hop for like 20 minutes find a guy and he escapes with a dinny b

[tropic kelp]

because otherwise its impossible to find a world

[meager flame]

nah they can fight for the bosses

[silk thicket]

Multiple max sets actually

😂

[hasty shard]

speccing with accursed sceptre and then running away because they cant freeze you

[hard axle]

pkers are trash, wildy pvmers are trash, which is why its possible

[meager flame]

since thats how this is supposed to work

[hasty shard]

(has never happened in the history of anything)

[fierce belfry]

less wildy words would be fine if they went after bots aggressively

[tropic kelp]

i guess i see your point

[fierce belfry]

most of the caves are occupied by bots wearing full monk robes and a dfs anyway lmao

[hard axle]

especially with how dead wildy is now

[fierce belfry]

or at least when i did it

[hard axle]

nah, even now

[north verge]

free gp

[hard axle]

wildy bots in low level are super uncommon

[dry pond]

take a walk through the rev caves it's botted to shit

[silk thicket]

But ye unskull anti pk meta is def craws bow over ursine

[hard axle]

they are purging them to hell

[dry pond]

every 3rd account has 70 combat with 200mil ranged xp

[hard axle]

different matter, which I have a solution for

[dry pond]

Is your solution remove that dogshit from the game

[hard axle]

make wildy un-tpable outside of 10-20 ferox safety zones.

and make you able to pk everyone on sight

fuck level limits

[ashen yarrow]

escaping as pvmer is pretty easy, anti-pking is not worth in most cases unless you specifically want to anti-pk since either you are losing significant dps on boss or you are anti-pking with terrible weapons

[meager flame]

the main problem is that jagex would then be forced into answering a lot of the game design issues involved in a lot of the wilderness if there were fewer worlds

and maybe thats not even a problem

[dry pond]

remove everything mod jed implemented

[fierce belfry]

or u just dont get loot

[hard axle]

levle limits legit only protect bots + support pures

[meager flame]

but they'd run into issues to fix

[silk thicket]

Any suggestion that makes me not have to learn normals is fine w me 😂 😂 😂

[dense bison]

dude are you delusional what is that suggestion

[fierce belfry]

unless u count wasting 15 minutes to droptrade a wildy key to ur main thats worth 300k

[hard axle]

jed didn't implement wildy

[silk thicket]

It’s bad but I don’t have to learn normals

[restive storm]

the main pker cabal strikes again

[hard axle]

if u have any understanding of tp-tb dynamics, you'd know that this garbage system is never balanceable.

[dry pond]

He implemented the rev caves

[dense bison]

pvp is just bad in osrs thats all there is to it

[restive storm]

he implemented the good version tho

[silk thicket]

Idkkk tankyu 60m

[fierce belfry]

sure did

[restive storm]

people liked that version, now we got, whatever this is

[dry pond]

there is no good version

[silk thicket]

Was just killing some revs acting clueless

But I’ll take those

[fierce belfry]

even stuck in a secret code that x'd droprates while skulled without telling anyone

except some certain people

[restive storm]

stop the 🧢 that place was busy 25/8

[fierce belfry]

masses only found out like a year after from mod ash i think

[meager flame]

you know that version got yeeted for some excellent reasons

[hard axle]

gonna be honest, i think there's just too many irons who shouldn't be irons cuz they think everything is bad the moment they get interrupted

[fierce belfry]

x0

[winged mantle]

The take many irons don't want to hear

[dense bison]

why do you want to interrupt other players?

[winged mantle]

Not everyone is built for iron

[silk thicket]

Wintertodt was annoying let’s be fr

[meager flame]

i think osrs attracts a certain kind of person

[wispy current]

Wildy isnt rewarding enough for how often u get interrupted

[restive storm]

id say 90% of irons at this point are not built to play irons lol

[meager flame]

and a lot of them are like

lol

[hard axle]

I did the wildy jail time for more kc than most irons will on their entire account and i've seen folks as low as 60 total wildy kc complaining in suggestions

[meager flame]

not going to take being interrupted well

[hard axle]

SIXTY

[winged mantle]

Sadly agree

[ashen yarrow]

was that antipking against a streamer? since you got his point of view lol

[hard axle]

yeah that's a new low

[meager flame]

im telling you bronze man mode

release it jagex

[winged mantle]

I did my vw grind and full rev weapon grinds. I love the wildy

[silk thicket]

Yh was killing revs antipking posted key found out he was streamer

[restive storm]

we dont need any more modes either

[silk thicket]

So I went watched it back

[meager flame]

its the mode most of your irons wish they were playing

[silk thicket]

🤣 🤣

[hard axle]

BMM with no pvp unlocks would be same or larger size of iron

[winged mantle]

Don't have to do stinky herb runs anymore pog

[hard axle]

its just psuedo clogging

[meager flame]

ya it would go crazy

imagine you log in

you get to pick up a hammer

a collection log type of thing pops up

you feel good

[silk thicket]

Ngl I did that super recently

[meager flame]

its built for osrs players

[silk thicket]

It was fun

[meager flame]

lmao

[hard axle]

the pop-up is the best thing they've added in YEARS

just dopamine

[tropic kelp]

i tried bronzeman and it was fun at first but eventually its basically a main. true iron makes it kinda more like a survival game

[silk thicket]

I sold all my gear except some mystics, black D’hide and a toxic staff

[hard axle]

and its literally nothing

[tropic kelp]

wildy bronzeman sounds fun as hell though

[silk thicket]

And I pk’d basically all my previous pk gear

[winged mantle]

Bronzemanmode but you don't get upgrades from killing another player 👀

[meager flame]

its basically the good part of iron and the good part of main

combined

[hard axle]

yup

[silk thicket]

So now I prob gotta do another rebuild

[meager flame]

im ngl though its also one of those new mode ideas that would actually get me to make an account to play it

[silk thicket]

Yooo should we make a pk clog

Plugin

[meager flame]

im running out of options over here im not powerful enough for uim

[dry pond]

Would be so easy to exploiit

[south void]

Personally, I never go into wilderness with more than 500k as I see no reason to.

You can do all the content in wilderness with a 500k setup it just takes slightly longer.

I expect to die.

Up until the addition of zombie pirates, I never interacted with the wilderness except to run in and get ma2 cape/diaries done.

It's a choice to enter or not.

I don't "need" wilderness weapon upgrades or loot from wilderness bosses.

I still think pk/pvp changes should be polled to accounts/players who do pk/pvp.

(As well as a pk/pvp team incorporated in the decision process at Jagex).

Maybe a change in polling availability-like they did with level caps/etc with the polling system for sailing should be incorporated?

Add some additional verification for accounts to be labeled as pk/pvp accounts so the poll for pk/pvp options are only chosen by pk/pvp accounts?

Just spitballing.

[analog crow]

the pking part of bronzeman always makes it totally uninteresting

[hard axle]

and to the people who are like "just do it on a main with restrictions", that's the same logic as just play iron on a main and delete the iron game mode

[hard axle]

yup, kill that shit

[silk thicket]

Yee but if it’s a plugin then surely ppl only do for fun or for content (streamers)

[hard axle]

I hate that dumbasses do that and can't see why its dumb

oh i need a bandos chestplate at episode 3, but i dont want to go to bandos

"claims to do 15 hours of pvp"

happens to get it

[winged mantle]

framed /j

[hard axle]

yupppp

[analog crow]

Oh look, a Real Player™ skulled afk at revs! Let's go boys let's get it!

[silk thicket]

U get to take 3/4 op items with u and still only risk 500k tho

[dense bison]

I dont think its a choice as much as it is forced on you, at least as iron, I want to get VW i am forced to go there I dont choose that.

[meager flame]

i actually really do want them to make another game mode just to have one to play and do the early game again

[restive storm]

i mean i think theres so many BMMs like that cuz theyre all pking streamers, but theres no pking content to do rn lol

[silk thicket]

So u can have decent advantage vs pker if u fight back

[meager flame]

i dont really want another hc and i maxed an iron and main and was like front page for gim for a year

[restive storm]

so they all just remake the same series 25x

[meager flame]

uim is not happening though

thats where i draw the line

[south void]

You don't "need" a vw, you have arkan blade outside wilderness as an option or you "choose" to go get that vw.

[analog crow]

Personally I'm fine with using plugins for that. I don't care about high scores or chat icons

[winged mantle]

Going for vw is the weapon and the boss loot

[meager flame]

i just prefer when its a "real" game mode because jagex is just going to implement it better than any plugin ever will

[winged mantle]

The drop tables are stupid good

[ashen yarrow]

I dont think all wilderness content should be just for pkers to choose. Limiting pvp outside of wilderness to only pkers is fine. limiting certain things in wilderness to only pkers poll would be acceptable but hard to draw a line where non-pkers wont interact with content a lot

limiting wilderness content poll to account who spend certain time in wilderness would be more fair but if it is told before hand it could be easily achieved by people to spite vote

[hard axle]

there's a reason why they often just don't poll wildy shit anymore

[analog crow]

I'm just tired of afk content that you can't really afk with inflated drop tables because Risk-vs-Reward™

[hard axle]

they can't win

[meager flame]

i might make some really weird account just to get something new to do

like an iron zerker or something

[south void]

People who didn't interact with sailing, didn't get to vote on sailing changes was my point, we had to just suck it up and get over it. I feel like this is the same scenario to appease the pk/pvp side of the playerbase regarding changes to the game mode they enjoy.

[silk thicket]

Try the rebuild thing

Start with mystics and dds

Pk ur way up

[ashen yarrow]

yes but wilderness as a whole is not just pkers interacting with it

[silk thicket]

It’s fun

[restive storm]

right, but when people's entire idea of "well i dont like it, therefore i want to just remove pvp entirely" those people shouldnt get to vote

[south void]

And sailing as a whole, was not just sailors interacting with it. It felt forced for many. Same as those are claiming to be "forced" to enter the wilderness when it's a "choice".

[winged mantle]

I do like vetion for the fact it's engaging and I'm ready for a scrap

[analog crow]

Vetion might be the outlier here

[winged mantle]

Callisto, revs, venenatis is very afk

Even the minibosses

[dense bison]

I disagree, the decision in to get a VW for many reasons, maybe i am a collector maybe i need it for CAS, doesnt matter i didnt choose wildy, i chose items, and its gated by wildy

[winged mantle]

Revs i am telegrabbing loot between kills 😅

[restive storm]

right but like... quiver/infernal are gated by colo/inferno

[fierce belfry]

not true lol

[restive storm]

whats the difference lol

[fierce belfry]

unless u wanna argue everything in the game is optional and u dont have to get anythnig

but thats not how getting bis in mmos work

[south void]

Players aren't "forced" to enter the wilderness, even on an ironman. Players also weren't "forced" to engage in sailing, but Jagex chose to lock poll options behind sailing level requirements because they didn't want votes based off people who hadn't ever sailed before. The same concept can easily be applied to the wilderness.

[silk thicket]

It is optional

[dense bison]

this content iis fair though

[silk thicket]

U choose

What to get

[ashen yarrow]

yes, are you expecting people with lvl1 sailing to have useful opinions about lvl90-99 sailing experience rates, that is same as asking someone who has never gone into wilderness about pvp mechanics

[restive storm]

the wilderness is fair too wdym lol

[fierce belfry]

it is optional in the sense i dont have a gun to my face forcing me to do things

[dense bison]

its not

[restive storm]

its actually almost unfair in that its so easy to be a pvmer now

[winged mantle]

The whole game is about setting goals. If there's things people want in the wildy some feel like they need it

[restive storm]

that its unfair to pkers

[fierce belfry]

but all bis in this game is not optional in that sense

sorry to say

[silk thicket]

Yh I choose to handicap myself on my iron bcos I rly don’t enjoy zulrah

[dense bison]

how is it fair

[patent cargo]

Unironically how people in here define optional LMAOOOO

[winged mantle]

I was because they added clues to sailing

[silk thicket]

That’s a choice I made to improve the average amount of fun I have in game

[restive storm]

cuz u literally need to land 1 freeze, then click logout

and u dont die

[silk thicket]

I’m not forced into zulrah

[restive storm]

lol

[carmine junco]

Wasn't that poll a feedback poll, not a lock in one? They'd obviously only want feedback from someone who's actually engaged

[fierce belfry]

you are infact forced to zulrah if you want to pvm

sorry

[south void]

Exactly! You get it now! The players who know about pvp mechanics should be the ones voting on changes to their type of gameplay in the area that was chosen for them to play in 🙂

[dense bison]

why is there a random mechanic that wastes my time?

[restive storm]

idk why are my spawns bad in inferno/colo

[fierce belfry]

if you wanna sit at redwood trees woodcutting in your free time its all power to you

its a dumb argument

[dense bison]

nothing has the in the game

[silk thicket]

Mmmm not rly, it’s very very good a lot of places, the only thing rly limiting is inferno for zuk healers

But it’s not absolutely necessary

I’ll prob just use rosewood bp for zuk healers

[south void]

Clues are optional, just drop the ones you don't (want to get) reqs for.

[fierce belfry]

optional content is going outside of your way to get a 2k cm cape or grinding out all pets in the game

[winged mantle]

Hard to say when i previously had all req for clues. Then they added sailing clues - why am I not allowed to do clues when I was prior

[fierce belfry]

not grinding out best in slot pvm upgrades you use basically everywhere

[restive storm]

i mean this is just wrong lol

[ashen yarrow]

people who actively interact with wilderness can experience wilderness content without being pkers themselves that is the difference.

[winged mantle]

I have them again but it's "forcing" sailing engagement

[south void]

Yes, that's my point. Get feedback from the pk/pvp community by allowing a modifier in the polling system to accounts for those who engage in that type of gameplay.

[silk thicket]

There are legit better specs than vw anyway and u can just use next best option

[fierce belfry]

funny guy

[winged mantle]

They added sailing steps with no extra benifit or reward

It wasn't even polled

[silk thicket]

Am not being sarcastic or anything, I legit play the game by choosing my goals based on what they entail, so on my iron I’ll aim for upgrades I wanna do the content to get

[winged mantle]

Doesn't even add cool solves

[fierce belfry]

stuff thats part of mainline progression is not optional content

[silk thicket]

I’ll also prob use blood moon tassies til I get oathplate legs

[fierce belfry]

its just how it is

[silk thicket]

Choose ur own path

[south void]

Be honest, how does dying more often in a place you acknowledge and consciously agreed to step foot into, affect your experience, vs. an entire group of players who only enjoy pk/pvping not getting their voices heard because the overall pvm community outvotes them?

[silk thicket]

That’s the point of the game

[fierce belfry]

if u want a pvm item from wildy thats optional u could go talk about dagonhai or rev weapons

[silk thicket]

U can change your path based on what u enjoy

[fierce belfry]

in which case id fully agree with you

but this is just stupid

[restive storm]

vw is absolutely optional

[silk thicket]

Realistically it’s only nex that vw is kinda needed since zcb u get from nex right

[dense bison]

these are things you can get over, there is no spawn which you cant deal with, how do you even compare it

[silk thicket]

But fang spec will do

[hard axle]

i said this back then, but folks bitching about a 6 hour pickaxe grind should not be playing iron

[carmine junco]

I think that's fine from a feedback perspective, but I'd be cautious of allowing that for actual polling.

[silk thicket]

If u rly rly hate wildy

[restive storm]

there is no pker that you cant deal with if you just click freeze and log out

otherwise its just a skill issue same as inferno

[silk thicket]

Ur talking about several hundred hour grind in wildy to get an item that’ll save u approx 2 hours in kill time pre zcb

[south void]

Explain why?

[hard axle]

the inflated ass drop rates in the wildy offset any and all interruption in the wildy

[dense bison]

its not about dealing with it, it doesnt further gameplay, its a waste of time, which is random

[restive storm]

bad spawns are also a waste of my time

cuz theyre annoying

[fierce belfry]

pkers try to argue in a way thats not totally dishonest challenge

[restive storm]

and random

[carmine junco]

Because updates that impact the whole game should let everyone vote. I like sailing but I wouldn't want only people who like sailing to vote on new item additions from it

[silk thicket]

Brother I’m really confused ?

I’m explaining how I play my Ironman

Legitimately

[winged mantle]

You should be able to deal with any spawn in inferno with enough experience

[silk thicket]

U can search it

If u want

[patent cargo]

I agree with your general definition of "optional" but its all dependent on what your goal is. Like all pets is not "optional" if youre a clogger for example but zulrah, vw etc is absolutely optional if you dont care 1 shred ab pvm and only skill

[hard axle]

if folks can't even realize that the wildy rates are inflated specifically to account for pkers interrupting you, it's just doomed lmao

[fierce belfry]

of course

[restive storm]

correct, same way that you can deal with any pker with enough experience

[silk thicket]

It’s fine tho apparently we just play the game completely different and that’s okay

[winged mantle]

Agreed

[restive storm]

some are just more annoying than others

[silk thicket]

We can move on

[fierce belfry]

im just saying like relatively common type progression all accounts have to do if they want to approach pvm -> high lvl pvm

if you want all pets then no pets are optional

[south void]

Sailing is separate from the entire rest of the main game, in my opinion this is the same as the wilderness because you can willingly choose to engage with or NOT engage with both. They are in regards to the same concept.

[hard axle]

voidwaker being 1/900 x3 instead of 1/5k x3 is the benefit.

None of the wildy bosses are mechanically intensive or difficult or dangerous to justify voidwaker outside of pkers ngl

[silk thicket]

If u want to avoid x content then x content is optional

[brisk hill]

Are you surprised? Every item that was seen as a grind is being replaced by a lower tiered item that’s basically the same.
It’s catering to a specific crowd but I’m not rly sure which.. /s

[restive storm]

here's yall free imbued heart btw

[carmine junco]

Perhaps true for now, but I expect (and hope) that over time it will be integrated more and more with the rest of the game.

[restive storm]

its from sailing

[brisk hill]

Blowpipe from sailorman

[fierce belfry]

isnt the new imbued heart just a divine mage pot lol

[brisk hill]

Free b ring from dt2

Just silly lol

[winged mantle]

I think arcan blade was for irons that don't have a good spec wep and who don't want to grind a vw

[carmine junco]

Don't make fun of my temu blowpipe it's actually sick

[fierce belfry]

and its not even close to being released

[minor whale]

I think a solid reason why a lot of pvmers got upset around the time they added the new wildy bosses was Jagex's whole spiel about "We're removing the dpick from being wildy-locked because we don't want to gate bis behind the wilderness, so we'll add it somewhere else MUCH rarer"

"Also here's the voidwaker, it will be bis spec weapon for 4 years straight, it only comes from the wildy"

[silk thicket]

Is there new heart

[south void]

The one exception being, wilderness weapons/loot is carryable into the main game vs. sailing items being useful in main game. Where I stand seperate on that viewpoint is there are alternatives to wilderness weapons/loot.

[restive storm]

probably but its free and doesnt get used up

[silk thicket]

What

[hard axle]

the downgrade that's 95% of the original theory, ye

[fierce belfry]

its not free yh

but its kinda pointless u still need imbued heart

[brisk hill]

Thanks Ironman

We know

[silk thicket]

Heart is like 20m xp on rate tho right

[fierce belfry]

if they want a mini imbued heart earlier in progression before moving onto the 200 hr imbued heart task skip turael grind be my guest

[brisk hill]

That’s the point

[carmine junco]

It's good for mains too you know. Using scales is money

[brisk hill]

[restive storm]

its free compared to an actual imbued heart

[silk thicket]

U can hella avoid that if u want

[hard axle]

scales were well balanced. Ancient essence were not

[brisk hill]

Don’t care about money, I’m a clanner that fights for hours on end in wildy.

But yes

Agree

[hard axle]

ancient essence might as well not even exist at this point

[fierce belfry]

hey a magic shortbow is free compared to a rune crossbow too

its just progression

[peak wyvern]

yo jagex, allow the rats and giant rats at mistrock to reach the swordfish spot again, it would allow a unique version of 2t swords to be possible again (1 big and 1 small rat) and we can do that as a decent method for loop key halves because atm the only way is for us to go on a pvp world with an alt. We want fun methods to exist and despite making that area multi we can't normally do it

[fierce belfry]

and a rune crossbow is free compared to an atlatl

im far beyond the point in which id benefit from early game grinds, but who am i to be mad they make the progression smoother for new accs

its so whatever

[hard axle]

"please add buyable altatl ammo, i dont want to grind ammo" was such a common iron statement

like christ

[carmine junco]

Atlatl ammo is fine tbh

[cedar quail]

well it wasnt craftable back then

[fierce belfry]

i mean yea but it also doesnt matter if they made it buyable

not like it had value anyway

[silk thicket]

Anyway I thought this discussion was interesting, what if u tried to view the “time waste” as part of the content itself? Instead of getting annoyed at pkers being there, get freeze log and laugh emote them before hopping

[south void]

Adding more sources for ammo shouldn't be a bad thing in my opinion.

[hard axle]

doesn't matter if it had value or not, it's the chronic shift to just making things buyable with gp

[fierce belfry]

people on reddit arguing that vials of blood should be dropped from random monsters in the new vampyre area is significantly more annoying

[hard axle]

screams main energy

[fierce belfry]

tob droptable already scrambling

[hard axle]

holy hell

yes

lmao

[south void]

I do entry mode tob for my blood vials, it's fun

[dense bison]

so the way i see it, gameplay should look the same for all players, when 1 player can p2w cause he has a scout i am wasting time cause i dont p2w

[hard axle]

"i shouldn't have to tob to get bastions or charge my scythe"

[fierce belfry]

speaking of optional, ppl on those threads always argue for bastion pots and those are genuinely completely useless

i dont think i have used those a single time

[hard axle]

it's a scapegoat argument

[restive storm]

agree they need to take care of singles bosses wildy scouts

its so lame

[hard axle]

if menaphite remedy was used for overloads, people would say the same shit

[south void]

Don't you just pot brew then range pot=bastion? Or am I missing something

[fierce belfry]

arma brew

pewpew

[south void]

Ah, the new arma brews are better?

[hard axle]

defense as a whole barely matters

[fierce belfry]

this

[carmine junco]

Arma brews reduce defense but yeah they are nice

[hard axle]

99 defense vs 118 is very rarely an issue

[south void]

Yea I figured the defence boost wasn't relevant

[silk thicket]

Wym? If u see a scout then hop

[fierce belfry]

i think defence only generally matters in melee only content

but ud never range then

[silk thicket]

But the real issue with scouts is defensive scouted at wildy bosses using player alarm

[south void]

So bastion, you pay more for a non issue boost?

[carmine junco]

You can mix Arma brews with Sara brews, or bring them where it doesn't matter like doom

[fierce belfry]

yes

[hard axle]

only if there's damage calc damage yeah

[fierce belfry]

its useless

[silk thicket]

But if u get scouted u should hop anyway tbh

[hard axle]

not true damage

[fierce belfry]

completely

[restive storm]

yea player alarm should be banned

[minor whale]

I think scouts are entirely fine
I don't use an alt at all and it's exactly what alts are made for

[south void]

I've never used bastions either, didn't understand what they were for lol.

Couldn't justify the price difference

[fierce belfry]

its kinda just for inferno and thats rlly whatever

if ur at the point where ur going for your first infernal you have the skillset to do tob

[south void]

I'm using no range in inferno so now that's still a non use case for me

[carmine junco]

People will go to any length to save one invy space, see people who bring two redirected home tele tabs and revert one

[fossil locust]

Hi guys. I can't put my cannon down

I bought a new one from Nolodion

Can't put it down even when I h op worlds

[south void]

Ah so it's a space saver for the gp cost, thanks that makes sense

[silk thicket]

👀

I been avoiding tob forever

[carmine junco]

That's literally all I can think of for bastion tbh

[silk thicket]

Maybe I’ll try it then

[fierce belfry]

blowpipe is mandatory 👍

[silk thicket]

Rosewood it is

[carmine junco]

Blowpipe is only for nycola right?

[hard axle]

people will also go any lengths to avoid doing content, including making up weak or honestly bullshit reasons

[silk thicket]

Tob I’d prob rather run on my main anyway

[fierce belfry]

maiden crabs too id assume if learning on iron

but yes

[carmine junco]

Tbh rosewood would still be fine on nycolas

[hard axle]

toa baba rocks for skipping, not sure how rsw bp's max hit works

[south void]

So have my clanmates. We spent the past 2 months running entry and then getting to normal p2 wipes, finally got our first clears last week. We are getting 1 wipe for every 3 clears now.

[fierce belfry]

probably xarpus too if learning

[silk thicket]

Ye I play game for fun not doing content bcos not fun is an inherently valid reason

[carmine junco]

People use ham joint for nycola

[silk thicket]

Legend

[dense bison]

lets say they remove scouting, ok gameplay is fair although it sucks, but thats all fine for the wildy bosses, what about scorpia? scorpia is unfair gameplay, straight up.

[peak wyvern]

yo jagex, allow the rats and giant rats at mistrock to reach the swordfish spot again, it would allow a unique version of 2t swords to be possible again (1 big and 1 small rat) and we can do that as a decent method for loop key halves because atm the only way is for us to go on a pvp world with an alt. We want fun methods to exist and despite making that area multi we can't normally do it. Forcing players to go pvp world is bad game design https://i.gyazo.com/44abb6fbc75631263d02cd79502be814.gif

[silk thicket]

Lmao I actually kept pts for swift blade on my iron just in case

[restive storm]

wym unfair gameplay? how is it unfair? lol

[dense bison]

scorpia cant be escaped.

[restive storm]

that boss gets like 3 hit in about 2 seconds

[south void]

Sometimes wipes are unavoidable. You get the standard disconnect, the "oh crap I misclicked", the "oh I missed my prayer", and the "I just forgot that was a mechanic" lmao

[restive storm]

its multi bro go with a team

to help you get out

[dense bison]

i am iron

[restive storm]

well that sounds like a you problem then

[dense bison]

it sounds like bad gameplay in pvp thats all

[silk thicket]

It’s right beside singles

[restive storm]

why would it be "fair" for 1 player to easily be able to escape multiple players

when its content intended for teams

[dense bison]

whats not fair i have to engage that boss as iron while i cant escape

[south void]

The important part about raiding is doing it with friends or people you don't yell at/or get yelled at for mistakes. Nothing worse than pairing with people who have zero patience for learners trying their best and making mistakes. Only way to learn it, is to learn from your mistakes.

[silk thicket]

U can def tank 2 freezes to get singles and go in the resource area/magic axe hut