game-update

[meager flame]

hopefully not exactly like it is when they turn it on for leagues but

its a pretty short list of stuff that would make sense

[gentle badge]

yea the end of a long questline is definitely the most thematic place for a new prayer book

[meager flame]

plus if thats going to be a stopping point for awhile that one specifically probably needs a huge payoff

since its basically the main quest of the game lol

by the time you get that far its included most of the important storylines from the start of the game into one massive one

[tacit void]

Didnt they drop the prayer book due to player feedback?

[meager flame]

i think it was mostly that they realized that they were going absolutely crazy power creep wise

people forget but those boys dropped nex toa dt2 in a relatively short period of time

lmao they were just powering through replacing everything

[ashen yarrow]

the prayer book was too much power creep, they might do different prayers without crazy effects

[meager flame]

and got cold feet on the prayers

we probably would've gotten the prayers if they hadn't done so many other big things

idk why they went for the whole new book though

i guess maybe because there was some expectation for that since its what happened in rs2

[ashen yarrow]

basically they want you to have to lock into lower defence options or certain options. like spell books they dont want you to be able to use spells from every spell book at the same time

imagine pvp or high end pve and players have to flick between both defensive gear and defensive prayer (not overhead) after every attack

[gaunt minnow]

Yea it’s like a trade off, you get stronger power but have to give up some defensive utility. So the normal spell book still has value

Otherwise it’s pure power creep and that’s bad (nice avernic treads jagex)

[worldly rune]

I've heard multiple people complain about sailing combat changes without any real details...

haven't really done sailing yet, but changes seem pretty nice to me at first glance...
so do I understand right that people are disappointed in sailing/ship combat in general and not the latest patch?

[restive storm]

correct its been terrible since beta

[gaunt minnow]

The main complaints are that:

• cannons now feel like thralls or worse
• before you didn’t need max mage to do boat combat where as now it seems balanced around that
• killing monsters sucks because you take a lot of damage still

Otherwise it’s a lot better

[worldly rune]

ah, so basically they made cannons weaker? thought I read hints of making them stronger in that post

[gaunt minnow]

Well they buffed all monsters hp by a shit load

[worldly rune]

aah ok

[gaunt minnow]

And didn’t buff the cannons

So they feel like thralls now

[worldly rune]

clear, thanks a lot
still need to get my construction up before I want to get into sailing... but soon™

[gaunt minnow]

If you’re a shadow user ur not too mad but you still take a lot of boat damage

[ashen yarrow]

buffed cannonball damage, made cannons slower. Was supposed to be slight buff to dps while reducing cannonball usage but they removed crewmate sailing lvl scaling which cause it to be over all nerf to dps

[gaunt minnow]

Those changes read more like they wanted to reduce the amount of cannon balls you pump out

But yeah idk why they nerfed crew mate scaling

That seems like a jab out of nowhere

[ashen yarrow]

they said it was unintentional bug

[gaunt minnow]

Oh so it’s being fixed then?

[ashen yarrow]

no i mean them having the scaling was considered a bug, they "fixed" it by removing it

[gaunt minnow]

Ohhh

That’s dumb

[worldly rune]

yeah

Additionally, during testing we found that crew cannon damage was incorrectly scaling with the captain's Sailing level. This has now been fixed and cannon damage scales only with a crewmate's Privateering level."

[gaunt minnow]

Surely it makes sense that higher level crew mates would do more damage

Oh it still does

Right I see

[ashen yarrow]

basically instead of crewmates getting +50-60% max hit from the cannonball ranged str change they only got +20% max hit after sailing lvl scaling removal

[worldly rune]

Privateering has lower max level you can get?

[ashen yarrow]

i think it should still be about same dps for crewmates around lvl50 sailing but higher their dps got worse

[worldly rune]

wait, it is not even obvious change...
privateering level is 1-4, sailing is 40-95

[ashen yarrow]

it used to scale with both sailing lvl and privateering levels

[worldly rune]

ok, so they just removed sailing part

[gaunt minnow]

That’s what this says here right

[worldly rune]

yeah, kind of misread it as it used to be sailing, now it is privateering

never shot a cannon, so I'm totally clueless lol

[gaunt minnow]

Neither have I and I’m 99 sailing

[ashen yarrow]

privateering really just lowers the base max hit for crewmates. lvl4 privateering is 85% damage, lvl3 = 80%, lvl 2 = 75%

[noble crow]

I saw a post about the mods asking for feedback on ship combat. So i tried it for a few hours. These are my thoughts:

• Ship repairing needs improvements. The crewmate gets unasigned after a single repair.
• Telegrabbing has a delay if you're also in combat. It doesn't anywhere else in game.
• Bounty tasks are far too short. You're sailing back and forth far too much.
• Monsters aren't clickable in their death animation, making you missclick and turn the boat.
• I think either auto retaliate should work OR cannons should be a lot better. Right now it's such a weird mix of regular combat and a slight buff from cannons.
• Ancient forge needs a builadble bank chest close to it so it's more useful. It has an 87 Sailing req and should be better than Shilo Village.
• Finally, all ship combat should really be single combat, not mutli combat.

That's about what i could come up with with testing. Besides this i do think there's a massive issue with Sailing progression in the form of droprates. I feel like ship combat droprates are alright (exception being Dragon Salvaging Hook), however, the fact you ALSO need all these dragon parts is ridiculous. Especially since the only okay source is Frost Dragons.

Honestly, add the parts and nails as Port Task rewards and massively buff the dragon part/ nail drops from ship combat. The way i see it is that it should work like the Chromium ingots. You should go on rate for enough parts to build a salvaging hook while grinding out the Great White sharks. But if you don't just smith down Dragon equipment at the ancient forge and smith yourself some parts/ cannonballs. This'd probably boost the economy for items like dragon axe/ pickaxe/ chain/ 2h etc.

Curious if you guys agree/ disagree/ have other feedback

[ashen yarrow]

there should still be multi combat options for sailing but having at least less monsters in some areas would make sense if not singles since some people want to kill one at a time

[noble crow]

I've personally just never been in a situation where i fought more than 1 NPC. And since player combat doesn't have auto retaliate i don't really see the point. Are there situations where the multi combat is helpful instead of a pain?

[ashen yarrow]

you could farm bounties and some lower level creature drops very easily inside multi with high tier hull/keel

now that they added the "fire at will" option it also removes the need to tag every sea creature to make cannon shoot them

[noble crow]

Moved this to the right server. This wasn't the right one. sry

[tender harness]

dont genuinely get this urgency to fix ship combat when they clearly don't have a solution.

[tacit pendant]

This covers most of it yeah

[tender harness]

like a million other things are more pressing than trying to hamstring a fix for something they are more than aware of was a mess, but dont know what to do with

[tacit pendant]

More xp from the new slayer mobs if drops are gonna be this dead (wyrms, griphs, aquanites)

[ashen yarrow]

cannonball part was needed for sailing so that was very good change. overall ship combat change just wasnt really that important at this point

[tacit pendant]

Sailing combat could be multi if cannons were strong af and player damage uncapped. Def double bounty task length in this case

Powerful enough threat elimination to where you can keep the "multi" part at bay seems more engaging than hanging on outskirts of spawn areas and slowly 1v1 ing

[limber creek]

We heard how much you guys wanted to save cannonballs so we made em suck again like you wanted. Thanks ladies n gents.

[restive storm]

can you imagine if the dwarf cannon was maxing like 5 damage

[ashen yarrow]

we made dwarf multicannon 2 ticks slower to save cannonballs, dont worry we also buffed cannonball damage to compensate. Oh btw it was falsely scaling with ranged level before so now max hit goes back to old. No need to to thank us

[meager flame]

ya it would be nice if you boat was strong enough to justify everything being in multi

rather than being ass so you're floating around the edges trying to pull out one thing

[hasty shard]

2 ticks slower and only 2 more maxes for bronze was all i needed to see

$15

[bright anchor]

have a look in #1022203837265756231 I made a small post there with my thoughts.

[tender harness]

dont get why ship combat is some big priority

it wont be fixed in " a couple of weeks"

[subtle merlin]

wish they would make a station on the boats to be able to make repair kits... almost all monsters drop planks...

[ashen yarrow]

plank sack helps a little but if you are killing vampyre krakens they give way too much planks even for that

plank drops could be used for longer trips with that facility i guess

[tacit wharf]

could u imagine how pissed off some people would be cuz they'd had to drop a barrel or god forbid the CE for a repair kit making station

[blissful topaz]

when are we getting left click bone bury option on ground items

[restive siren]

hopefully never

[tidal cove]

stream talking about how realistic cannon is against birds, should just make cannon useless and let darts and arrows shred em

[ashen yarrow]

wait they are saying player ranged str gear will buff cannon damage when player is shooting it

[tidal cove]

later there could be other ship weapons and cannon ammo, not everything has to fit perfect on release

[tender harness]

they clearly have no idea how to fix sailing combat

feel bad for them but rushing out a fix is only going make it so much worse

[tidal cove]

now talking about port task, still boring fetch quests, port tasks should act like ca or diaries

[ashen yarrow]

its hard to balance everything and keep everyone happy at the same time. From what they are saying they are trying to follow the route from opinion poll so players themselves are majority of damage, be it player weapons or player on cannon

[tender harness]

sailing combat being just a fucking ayak or shadow

isnt even fun nor sailing at that point

[tidal cove]

they intend to make cannon stronger if the player man them, might be worth taking other players to get max value

[ashen yarrow]

Basically not much changes to crewmates, change to players on cannon and maybe some changes to sailing mobs to somewhat nerf max mage

[tidal cove]

cannon should shred things with flat armor, leave light targets bad to farm until anti personnel ammo/device come out

[ashen yarrow]

player on dragon cannon currently (7tick attack speed), they said buffing base damage even more and letting player range str bonus increase it

[tidal cove]

positioning would be cool, if you can shadow barrage a kraken, land a harpoon, then cannon the gaping wound

[ashen yarrow]

expecting 100+ damage hit splats with player manning dragon cannon after change

[tidal cove]

feed the blood lust for now until they come out with more gameplay

it's a valid strat

let sloop have 4 cannon, but 3rd and 4th only usable with other players

[ashen yarrow]

but i do agree that cannons ignoring flat armor could be used as balancing way for some mobs. Would need to somehow make it so mage cannon abuse it. flat armor currently nerfs crewmates too much and it hurts non mage weapons from player too

[tidal cove]

makes everything more thematic, birds are hard to hit with speed and agility so you'd light ammo shred, Kraken you'd stun somehow, pierce armour/hide, then you incendiary or High explosive into the wound

now you got ship combat that needs you to plan out your kills, position correctly

[tacit wharf]

monsters have weakness to types for a reason, use them

maybe the best strat for birst is light ammo and bronze cannon balls to tag em

oh u got a kraken that is weak to heavy range, maybe increase the defenses of the other styles so they hit like shit against it

[tidal cove]

isn't bronze softer when it comes to metal? maybe there's we can craft fragmentation HE ammo that acts like flak

[tacit wharf]

bronze cuz they cheap

[ashen yarrow]

later on we get additional effects to cannonballs so those can be used as extra weaknesses or mechanics. which would also add more of the captain feeling since you are swapping cannonball types on cannons

[tacit wharf]

u'd be basically just using them like darts to tag slayer mobs for bursting, kind of scenario

[tidal cove]

interested in the actual metal properties too, melting pts or hardness so now it's not just a bland tier list, every metal has good uses

[tacit wharf]

thats just over complication

[ashen yarrow]

dont think they can any more change the metal tiers to be weaknesses at this point

[neon gate]

Speaking of ayak can they rename the ayak to literally anything else? It apparently stands for something to do with the kkk which gets it flagged on twitch chat

[tidal cove]

don't have to revamp weakness, it's letting me turn my bronze cball stack into fragmentation cballs

[tacit wharf]

its not revamping

its actually making weaknesses a thing

[tidal cove]

sure, expand on what they've already built since they took the time to make light/dart/heavy

[tacit wharf]

light/normal/heavy

same with stab/slash/crush

and the 9 different weakness of magic

[ashen yarrow]

it would be better for balancing if it could be done to all cannonball tiers since damage scales based on tier, unless it is just 1 hit and effect applied for whole fight

[tidal cove]

they confirmed HE and chain shot on stream

[tacit wharf]

what do u mean confirmed, we already knew they were coming at some point

since we voted on them

[tidal cove]

I agree with you to an extent, if you insist on forging plain cball for shock impact damage then it's just metal hardness tier list

[tidal cove]

for the metal enjoyers out there I'd like more intricate ammo based on specific material properties

stream said "other types of ship weapons" harpoon for armour/hide piercing.

I'd also like to build a ship around a artillery style cannon, think Age of Empire Cannon Galleon

for the raid my clan mates can spot for me so I can hit things off screen/outside render distance

[tough dew]

Ship combat shouldn't be land combat + ship thralls. you can't say you "want it to feel different and unique" and then just let people do what they normally do but now on a boat.

[ashen yarrow]

sadly opinion poll had most votes for players being main dps source. So player gear and player using main game weapons or player on cannon will be the main dps

[tough dew]

Yeah and then they got sad when that was exactly the case (this past update)

[ashen yarrow]

yeah since player damage got +300% damage increase and crewmates got -10% damage nerf

[tough dew]

"we want to do full damage and have cannons as thralls"
That's what we got, and then everyone rioted

[ashen yarrow]

community pretty much split 50/50 on what the combat should be like

no matter what they choose always gonna be loud minority rioting, even more likely after price change

[tough dew]

Yeah it's a bit annoying it's so split cause it means the devs won't be able to get a real direction the players will be happy with

[quiet plank]

Nah ayak sounds cool

[neon gate]

I'm serious

Type it into twitch chat see what happens

[quiet plank]

Looking it up doesn't bring up anything about the kkk

Apparently it's turkish for foot

[hard axle]

ur name is literally Wizzy

[neon gate]

It's on a kill word list 🤷

[zenith pike]

How about fuck twitch

[quiet plank]

Sounds like twitches problem

[ashen yarrow]

any combination of letters could be used as an abbreviation of bad sentance

[zenith pike]

I can think of three that haven’t caught on yet

[jagged marsh]

Chaos Wand would've been a cooler name

Honestly some of these new names are really not old school sounding

The 'Doom of Mokhaitl' in 2007 wouldve been like 'Hive Demon' or something

[zenith pike]

As an opinion, factually, hell no

[jagged marsh]

Yes

You're wrong

It's cooler r

[zenith pike]

In what way, it sounds all too generic

[minor whale]

Chaos Wand does not at all sound cooler than Eye of Ayak

[tacit wharf]

id prefer "pew pew wand"

[minor whale]

It sounds like it'd be a mid game niche buff of the master wand meant for irons to get before Kodai or some shit

[limber creek]

Shootie Mcmagic

[tacit wharf]

shootie mcshootie sounds better

[limber creek]

Thats my ballista's name

[tacit wharf]

yr ballista's old name*

[tidal cove]

eventually ship upgrades would let a fully upgraded ship out dps a single player in max, so then both crowds gets served of course there will always be players that demands to be served first

overall optimistic and excited as the pieces fit together overtime

[tacit pendant]

I watched the stream, they atleast seem to agree on a lot of problems i was concerned about. Prayers, lower mob hp, need for more engaging fights.

I wish this could have been a more coherent schedule but im a bit more optimistic about where sailing will be a year or two from now

[tidal cove]

can you link me your post? algo just serve me sailing bad rage baits

I'm always up for mega threads with concise and actionable feedback

[tacit pendant]

Id take a queen black dragon port with a royal ballista

[tidal cove]

I've not dont QBD but would like a ship bally

done*

[ashen yarrow]

basically the only "bad" thing about the stream was that they were not looking to make crewmates on cannon stronger than they currently are. Only mentioned buffing player on cannon

[tacit pendant]

The arena she is fought in could work for part sailing part land combat. New ship ballista as a bis reward would go hard. I just like the araxxor we got even if its not as deep as rs3

[tacit pendant]

I was pretty cool with this tbh. I dont want to fully invalidate using weapons as i think it opens up more interesting pvm

[tidal cove]

I rather enjoy niche scape long as it makes thematic sense that fits with the osrs medival fantasy grit

so instead of bis bally, how about if it's for armor/hide piercing?

[tacit pendant]

Were getting a hotfix to cannon damage scaling, and mobs will have lower hp. Im keen on a ballista dps weapon on land or sea tbh, needs to have different niche than rubies or tbow

[tidal cove]

it's not for dps, it's for utility, think cracking open armour so other munition becomes effective

[tacit pendant]

Ralos kinda does that, but down for one that goes in cannon slot too

Sailing actually has hella potential for ralos to be good lol

[chrome lantern]

Just finished watching the VOD. When they mentioned lowering hp they threw out the number of 10%. I know it was an example but the fact they felt they had to be that conservative doesn’t leave me with hope on it.

[tacit pendant]

I can agree with that

I was thinking like... 30-50% lol

For the stupid birds especially

Im fine with big ass sharks and krakens having more

[chrome lantern]

Also if they “proportionally” lower xp/rewards from the low-level bounty tasks they will just be completely dead content since you’d spend longer sailing to and from than killing

Unless they make them like 10x longer bounties

[tidal cove]

make cball bad against light targets, you'd need flak/fragmentation for anti air

[tacit pendant]

Low tier bounties kinda already dead

[chrome lantern]

That’s my point

I did bounties at 30 and they were horrendous

[tacit pendant]

High tier bounties might be good when they "fix the code" they are close to 200k if you sweat

[chrome lantern]

But if you spend even longer doing the back and forth then it’s even worse

Honestly this might be a hot take but bounties should be more xp than trials

[tacit pendant]

Id agree with that. Trials dont eat cannonballs

[chrome lantern]

Trials are just a boring memorization test with zero input cost

Zero variance and zero input cost and zero fun

[ashen yarrow]

currently if you have 2 crewmates on dragon cannon they are combined around 50% of the dps max shadow deals on its own

[chrome lantern]

It’s like they tried to take what makes sepulcher interesting but missed all the interesting parts

[tacit pendant]

Its crazy bounties dont give slayer xp lol

[chrome lantern]

It’s crazier that slayer has no alternative training methods to the archaic task system

[tidal cove]

also port tasks are fetch quests, what if it's more like ca or diaries so if you "improve" their lives they'll grant you perks or clues that culminates in a stash of high end ship upgrades/parts

[chrome lantern]

That doesn’t sound interesting it just makes them sound like Zeah favor

[tidal cove]

I'd read their flavor text, then they just hand you a token gp/sail exp, make it sailing treasure trails?

I didn't enjoy grinding favors, too detached and transactional, clues/slayer task you'd have to adapt so should be closer to that

[ashen yarrow]

I do think there needs to be some extra incentive to do port tasks, they are pretty good xp if done optimally but not best xp and give like 150-180k gp/h and xp/h with max boat upgrades

[meager flame]

Tbh I don’t think that should have been the reward model at all for port tasks so I can’t take them seriously

Some exp and making sure it’s tuned is of course expected

Just giving people a little gp and telling them to go away though is someone that ran out of time

[vestal flame]

Feel bad for the sailing devs at this point. They delivered exactly what they said they'd deliver, cannonball cost is way down, it's easier to kill shit esp at the lower end, and folks are up in arms about the top kraken & not thematically using cannons

Feels like this is random pushback on price increases

[pearl pivot]

think the increase of prices are to blame.. when saying they've given "x" amount of content for "x" amount of value then missing the mark on every update.. seems consistent. boat content has been horrible since release and is still awful

[meager flame]

Sure if you haven’t read people talking about sailing combat for 4 months

Longer honestly if you saw beta

Problem is it’s just not good not the price increase

[vestal flame]

I mean it's boring but it doesn't seem that bad any more

[meager flame]

Although the price thing did make this an interesting moment to bring something up the community isn’t happy with

That’s not the root cause

[vestal flame]

Like it sucked to spend tons of time making/getting cannonballs compared to using them. And they solved that. Now it's just boring slayer/boat combat

[meager flame]

Yeah and who wanted combat but worse in every way

Nobody

They’re just gonna keep getting killed when they talk about it until it’s at least decent

[vestal flame]

I mean it seems decent right now. Like, what's actually wrong with it now?

It's "boring" & "cannons hit low compared to standard weapons" seem like vibes hard to address complaints

They also are working on eg vs NPC ship combat which should be "cooler"

[meager flame]

I mean people have been talking about it endlessly for the last few days again but

[ashen yarrow]

Community split on what the combat should be like, crewmates got nerfed at higher levels. Technically nothing wrong except the 15 flat armor on veiled kraken since goal was players main dps source

[meager flame]

I think at a super basic level if you’re playing a video game and you point out the combat is boring and ask what’s wrong with it

People could probably point out different aspects of it that make it boring but you already know it sucks because you already called it boring yourself

It’s entertainment lol it can’t be boring and be positively received

A lot of osrs kind of smoothly avoids that by not being entertainment to begin with and instead being like a progression fulfillment simulator and allowing you to do something else while you play

Basically the concept of an idle clicker

Salvage is an example

But it doesn’t work when they ask you to focus on the screen

[ashen yarrow]

There are always people who enjoy different things and find different things boring. Some enjoy high click intensity and difficult mechanics and others do not like them at all

[meager flame]

Yeah it is subjective but it’s pretty easy to see which direction the wind is blowing and even guess at it

[ashen yarrow]

Early sailing will never be "fun" for someone who expects every normal mob be awakened leviathan

[meager flame]

Osrs always has problems with a lot of people when they make something both traditionally boring and ask for you to focus on it

Cue* most people disliking things like

Solo corp or rooftop agility

[winged mantle]

There is no progression for sailing combat

You grind for an item from sailing combat and get it - now what do you do?

[meager flame]

There are more apt comparisons for sailing too like

Back in the day if you ever did that massive black demon task with your cannon and prayer pots

Just afk wanting to die for an hour

That’s sailing

At least the combat anyways

[ashen yarrow]

Yeah if dont do any of the content that uses the unique drops then you do not do anything with it. Same goes for normal osrs drops too

[meager flame]

It’s more so pointing out that you obtain the item and lose the reason to do the content

Rather than having something new to now go get with the item

[winged mantle]

Like grinding for a dragon cannon barrel - what does one do with that when there's nothing to kill?

[meager flame]

It’s kind of currently dead end game design where step 1 or 2 is the end of the line

[winged mantle]

Sailing upgrades are not account upgrades in terms of combat

[meager flame]

That’s expected bc it’s new but

They probably could’ve done more depth instead of being a mile wide and an inch deep to start

[winged mantle]

Coming from a 7 year iron acc. Sailing drops are empty and pointless

[ashen yarrow]

Smithing is also not account upgrade in terms of combat. Most skills are not combat upgrades

[winged mantle]

You use smithing constantly

Sailing where do you use apart from if you do clues

[meager flame]

Tbf most skills didn’t add an entirely new platform for combat

Sailing did though

[winged mantle]

It's isolated and doesn't feed back into the main game. That's the problem

Apart from say trawling which isn't fun

[ashen yarrow]

All comes down to sailing not bringing end game combat gear again

[winged mantle]

Not really

Just an example

There are many

[meager flame]

Idk I don’t think it’s about that specifically but that is something it should be involved in

Eventually

When I look at sailing I just see a super barebones version of something that could be cool and I want the cool version not the pointless one

[ashen yarrow]

They made normal weapons deals 100% to sea creatures because players wanted to intergrade gear progression into main part of sailing combat

[meager flame]

I think all of that stuff is misguided tbh

I’m not more powerful than my boat and I shouldn’t be because I’m the person operating it the cannons should be big and important

I shouldn’t be nerfed to make it seem like they’re good

They should just be good

I think if they had started that way they wouldn’t have this conversation

[viscid hamlet]

I can see this.

Like cannons SHOULD be a major part of sailing combat, with enemies that require you having dragon so you can effectively fight them in "end game" sailing.

[winged mantle]

Like even last night - afk safe spotted a veil krakens for a couple of hours and got a dragon cannonbarrel. The thought i literally had after "do I stay for another one? What does this even do for me? How many hours if I stay if I get the second one for a drop that doesn't really mean anything".

[meager flame]

They’re just giga stubborn

[ashen yarrow]

If they make players deal 100% damage and make cannons more powerful that just goes back to same spot but now every number is 10x larger including enemy hp

[meager flame]

Yes and then after that

They can get to real feedback about how it’s just too slow

[tacit pendant]

Construction offers tons that isnt "bis" combat, smithing you straight up cant make bis armor on an iron, or a purging staff on a main, mining needs work but plays into raids, agility is straight up a stat boost for run restore

[meager flame]

Instead of flip flopping around about how much to nerf players or cannons

[winged mantle]

The combat doesn't replicate real combat and is empty

[tacit pendant]

But jagex at least acknowledged today rewards that feed into rest of game are lacking so im hopeful

[winged mantle]

Real combat is movement, prayers, eating, attacking, weapon switching and gear switching. Sailing is cows

[meager flame]

I just don’t even think they clocked the reason that people didn’t like doing small numbers before

[viscid hamlet]

I think players should not be effective against mobs. Make the cannons do the work, maybe the combat would have to be reworked so that boat positioning matters for some attacks (im not high enough level to know if this is already the case)

Make me bail water or patch a hole every once in awhile like trawler. It would make the boat storage have a good use as well.

[ashen yarrow]

What you are referring to is bossing or raiding

[meager flame]

Was that they know they hit harder than that everywhere else and they felt like they just got nerfed and fixated on it

[chrome lantern]

Lmao the fact there's a safespot for them on release is kinda comical and highlights the glaring deficiencies

[meager flame]

They didn’t have to make people feel like that

But don’t seem to get it

[vestal flame]

If the only problem that the shit is boring and there's not enough of it.. then like that's a good place to be. They're literally working on a sailing expansion with more islands, mobs, & vs NPC ship combat

[winged mantle]

Yeah actual combat

[vestal flame]

Just need to serve us up a cool trailer & standard pace of work problems

[chrome lantern]

They don't have to raise the HP proportionally. Even if they thought they addressed, "Sailing combat feels slow because we hit low," they didn't actually address, "Sailing combat is garbage slow"

[meager flame]

They didn’t think that

They just think they know better

[chrome lantern]

The goal never should have been to make kph the same because that was the core issue in the first place, and it's why they said today that they'll buff it

[meager flame]

That’s why I called them stubborn

[ashen yarrow]

Kill speed is tied to tens of other balancing parts

[chrome lantern]

Yes, and all of those other balancing parts are currently horridly balanced

Bounty tasks suck, the drops are way too rare for things that Jagex themselves have said are not end-game, and many other things

[ashen yarrow]

Kill speed got higher so now bounty tasks drop rates need to change and xp rewards need to change. Drop rates need to be adjusted

[meager flame]

They’re in a situation where they can just flip the board because it’s a mess but they’re treating it like the greatest system ever that they’re afraid to adjust much in case it breaks

[chrome lantern]

^

[meager flame]

Just go break it

They can’t do worse

At least assuming they try

[chrome lantern]

I do agree there should be some consideration of balance and xp rates/rewards etc. but you could literally like triple all of those and still be fine

Because of how horribly they made it initially

[minor whale]

The idea that they should nerf anything except salvaging is wild
XP wise, combat and bounties are not worth the effort at all

[meager flame]

They’re afraid of nothing it didn’t turn out great yes they’ll have to rebalance and spend a lot of time on it

[ashen yarrow]

If you even double bounty xp/h it suddenly jumps to best training method while also giving unique drops

[chrome lantern]

Good

[winged mantle]

Yes

[meager flame]

But they already hit rock bottom they’re not idiots it’s not going to actually become even worse

[chrome lantern]

Combat actually has input cost

[meager flame]

If they make a real second try it will benefit everyone

[chrome lantern]

Most bosses we see in normal PvM are also among the best combat xp/hr

That's not really an issue

And the things we have locked behind drops are like

[meager flame]

Tbh I think they’re just scared or maybe they can’t let go of something that isn’t working

I’m not sure which

[ashen yarrow]

Efficient bounty tasks before changes could get 120-150k xp/h. After combat buffs with max gear might be able to reach 200k xp/h already

[meager flame]

Maybe both

[chrome lantern]

Not really things that needed to be gatekept in the first place behind these drops, especially in light of the fact they're not endgame

[meager flame]

They already got the message though just gotta see if they’ll actually listen to it

[chrome lantern]

Like teleporting to your boat is something that should just be on the Sailing skillcape, not something you need to go kill 500 krakens to unlock for some reason

(Per boat)

[meager flame]

I do not want to see another 4 months for incremental changes though

Skill will never go anywhere with that pacing

[winged mantle]

It feels like they spent so much time working on something with a specific mindset and the community is saying "this aint it" letting go of an idea to make it better seems like they don't want to

[limber creek]

Let me throw cannonballs at the same strength as the cannon. Im 99 range and strength. I can do it.

[ashen yarrow]

Small part of community will always say this is not the way combat should work because community is split on it. If they always listen the direction changes every single month

[meager flame]

It’s not a small part

[limber creek]

Call it barbarian cannoning

[winged mantle]

From what I've seen a large part has been screaming

[meager flame]

You can’t go anywhere without someone flat out calling sailing combat garbage

[winged mantle]

From the beta to release to now

[limber creek]

Do i need to rn.

[meager flame]

Like even the behe videos just say it and they usually go out of their way to be positive

[ashen yarrow]

Yes and if they go the other way then "large" part of community will complain again

[winged mantle]

I'm always able to tell you if something if good or bad and give both sides of the feedback coin. Sailing combat especially has had too many painpoints with so little good things about it

[winged mantle]

We the playerbase will riot until it's in a good state

We're not settling

[thorn holly]

Yeah, people are saying they want to be on the cannon now...Why? I didn't grind this gear and recruit these people to hop on the cannon myself. Who are these people?

[meager flame]

Tbh I think jagex wanting your crew to suck is a massive mistake

It’s just one of those things they locked in with and are being stubborn

[winged mantle]

Make the crew their favourite snack to power them up for an hour 😂

Billy bob wants a leechfin sandwich

👀

[meager flame]

Thank god that failed

They tried the same thing with it

Luckily it was before a poll

So they found out

Feedback matters lol

[winged mantle]

Bread merchers in shambles

[thorn holly]

RIP leechfin sandwich, guess we'll be seeing +30 food next year.

[meager flame]

Nah we just headed off the future disaster of having combat style food for irrelevant complexity

[thorn holly]

If you can't progress sideways, only way is up.

[meager flame]

Or nowhere

[limber creek]

sailing food powercreep hurts

when blighted marlins and blighted halibuts

[meager flame]

We just upgraded karams maybe they can get back to us in 2039

[winged mantle]

My proposal *sarcasm *
Granite dust
Abbysal ashes
Ground superior bones
Choc milk from the bottomless bucket
Summer pie

Boss medly

[ashen yarrow]

First crew being main dps was bad and player gear became main dps while crew even in max boat is under 35% of total dps. Now player gear is too op so player on cannon has to almost match it. Next crewmates are too weak so they have to be buffed again. Endless cycle

[meager flame]

Food is pretty unique in that they don’t have to change it at all since technically damage done to players doesn’t have to scale

We could just skip all that though

Player does normal damage cannons are good because they’re cannons and we’re on a boat

High level crewmates actually good at their job

[winged mantle]

The fact cannons can only target 1 side of the boat still hurts

[meager flame]

Everything makes sense and we start from where it should’ve been to begin with

Idk doesn’t seem too hard to me lol

[winged mantle]

Let me ask another question - why does loading the cargo take multiple trips shuttling inventories from the bank?

[minor whale]

It's a weird thing to try to force a dichotomy we didn't actually want in an argument

We want players to be able to do solid damage, and for crew to not suck

Before, there was no "good" dps possible at all, now the only way to get consistently good dps is to mainhand a normal weapon with crew on cannons

Why can't we have it so the player is good with cannons, crew is together on par with player, and mainhanding either themed or solid dps weapons is good

It's just so poorly designed atm

[meager flame]

Idk how we even got here

[minor whale]

Also adding repair kits to cargo

Is sooooooo bad

[winged mantle]

Yup

[meager flame]

It seems obvious that setting foot on your boat shouldn’t just add chromosomes to your character and that dedicated crewmates recruited to help you would be good at what they do

[minor whale]

Jagex thought "make cannons better and players do better damage" meant make shadow bis sailing weapon

[meager flame]

Also I don’t think anyone expected to be stronger than artillery

[minor whale]

Yeah it's actually insane we're better than the bis cannonballs

Longer range, easier positioning while on the boat, etc

More dos

Dps*

[winged mantle]

I described early sailing training as pure friction. Sailing is a skill designed around friction points which is unfortunate. You can see it in boat customisation, boat building, boat cargo loading, combat, bounty tasks etc

[ashen yarrow]

Dont worry next time players shooting dragon cannon balls will be hitting triple digits, they said could be +50 max hit and ranged str bonus on player increases player cannon damage

[meager flame]

Idk how they see the feedback and say that

How do I google translate to jagex

[minor whale]

Absolutely
It's the only skill where it feels like instead of leveling up feeling like "oh cool what do I get to do now" it feels like "oh cool what don't I have to do anymore"

[ashen yarrow]

Basically player on cannon needs to hit around 110 to match max shadow which they compared in the q&a

[meager flame]

Like on one hand I get cannons hitting that big they probably should

But why are they stuck on the player sitting on the cannon

Lmao like

[winged mantle]

Like even the boat customisation area - why is there no bank, why is there no workbench next to said bank

[meager flame]

Your crewmates are you

They’re just boat upgrades

Thematically different boat gear

[winged mantle]

My proposal for boat combat - your player disappears and you are now the sentient boat

[meager flame]

You’re still doing everything yourself lmao like

Idk

[winged mantle]

😂

[meager flame]

This might trick them into making sense

[ashen yarrow]

Could be same reason as salvaging, crewmates being too op makes player "useless" and allows afk gameplay

[winged mantle]

Make the cannons target anything 360 deg and dragon cannons with dragon cannonballs deal 80 damage

Done

Player gear doesn't matter and boat upgrades are meaningful

I hope people know I'm being sarcastic about the sentient boat. Boat and sea combat doesn't have to be realistic. Why can't cannons rotate 360 deg actually tho, why cant cannonballs be infused with magic i could go on.

Idk give us a boat creature that attacks monsters with us 🤷🏼‍♀️

They could do so much.

[chrome lantern]

I still don't understand why magic ignores flat armor in the first place. Today on the stream they just said "yeah that's what magic does!" but I guarantee 99% of people never even knew that before this week

[minor whale]

They went for aesthetics over functionality

And it SHOWS

Boat combat just feels bad

[winged mantle]

I want fun-ctionality

[minor whale]

Even if we hit 200s

It would still feel bad

Having to rotate your boat and wiggle even still to get within range of something attacking you is so annoying

Even if your cannons are on the same side

Sometimes a monster that is CLOSER than another monster is out of range of cannon even if side by side

And yet if you wiggle some both cannons will hit

[chrome lantern]

When people say 360 cannon this immediately comes to mind lmao

[minor whale]

It's just really bad

[winged mantle]

It feels like if you're wearing full mac gear but your weapon is a bronze dagger

[chrome lantern]

Full mac and cheese gear

[minor whale]

It feels like you're in max mage but your weapon isn't able to autocast

[winged mantle]

They typo stays

[minor whale]

Yeah you do solid dps but it's just annoying as shit to do the entire time

[ashen yarrow]

Yeah it was confirmed by jagex and added to wiki only last year

[winged mantle]

Imo to fix combat at sea

• make it so you have to move around
• your crew have 360 deg cannon targetting with increased range
• cballs do way more damage
• sea creatures have no flat armour
• fix the net delay
• make sailing combat link back to main game and vice versa

Main game monsters not dropping sailing items is a miss

[chrome lantern]

I would add onto that that idk why every area with enemies has like 5 billion enemies when the first objective is to never fight more than 1 at a time if it can damage you at all

And the entire ocean is multi

[winged mantle]

Btw your tele grabbing a dead sea monster can be interrupted 🫠

[kind surge]

there's so much dead space in the seas, idk why they did this

[ashen yarrow]

I do think multi combat makes more sense than singles. I also think them having 15 krakens placed on top of each other is bad design

[chrome lantern]

Yeah I don't think either is a problem individually but together

Like just why

[minor whale]

Multi is fine if every single aggressive monster wasn't stack on top of each other and never lost aggro

[limber creek]

Gettin multi clanned on in the ocean has already began and i was unaware because i refuse to engage in the combat in its current state lol.

[chrome lantern]

I will pose a similar question

[winged mantle]

🤷🏼‍♀️ this is the Monster_Kraken zone

[limber creek]

How does boat tanking work lmfao. do you just spam repair kits, are there double or triple eats, or boat p necks XD

[chrome lantern]

What purpose does the field of kraken around Laguna Aurorae have

[winged mantle]

To keep people out!

[chrome lantern]

It's literally an island designed for you to be like, "Do I really have to?" then drive through once and never sail there again because there's a spirit tree

[ashen yarrow]

Afking through aggressive krakens day1 just to get nuked in 5sec and sent back to port sarim and wasting 10min trying to sail to zeah

[chrome lantern]

Which, I might add, has no connection to the gnomes whatsoever and just kinda exists for some reason

[limber creek]

they the ocean dark wizards n shit

[chrome lantern]

It's not grown, there's just random pirates, leeches, moss giants, and kurasks there

Not saying every spirit tree has to be gnomish but it's so random

[winged mantle]

they ran out of time

[chrome lantern]

Like Grand Exchange also isn't near gnomes

[winged mantle]

Is the conclusion for a lot of "choices"

[chrome lantern]

I saw someone post a screenshot of them killing Kurasks at Laguna Aurorae and I was actually confused when I looked at it for a minute because I had no idea why anyone would ever go there

[winged mantle]

"just fill out the world! We're lanching this in 5 hours!"

[winged mantle]

No idea

If only those extra subscription fees went to hiring more devs 🫠

[remote ruin]

I mean, it's pretty quick to get there with a poh spirit tree, so it's fast to get the task done

[meager flame]

i actually had the stuff to plant one because

it never crossed my mind that there would just be a prebuilt tree for absolutely no reason

i still dont really get why they didn't just take the easy farming integration lol

[chrome lantern]

wym didn't you get the memo?

Sailing is definitely integrated into the game

[meager flame]

i keep coming back to this thought thats like

"if they weren't willing to make anything cool on these islands why did they make sailing"

[chrome lantern]

So that you could go to those islands once to open a schematic chest

[meager flame]

because the whole point was the potential for exploration and what could be out there

turns out nothing is out there

[winged mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/where-you-at-gif-21177622

[meager flame]

its just weird too because lol i still think the idea is a good one but they're not really delivering

and i dont really know why

because in theory its actually very easy since that whole sense of rewarding islands where you do cool things really doesn't involve the mechanics of sailing

its just standard content on islands

so their entire team is equipped to make it happen if they decide to

its the part i never would've expected them to be bad at because its the most familiar and easy to work on

[minor whale]

Some of the random events you can encounter being actual events would be cool

Instead of things you just ignore once you got the pearl clogs

[chrome lantern]

Or like what if instead of having a 10000% worthless event like the ocean man

There was like

Something that gave an xp lamp or something

At least

[minor whale]

Imagine an "event" where a boat battle just happened and you can salvage for either incredible loot or a couple minutes of very high xp

Stuff that gives you a reason to be in the open sea

[chrome lantern]

You can't even pretend there's a snowflake argument for Ocean Man

[minor whale]

Instead of "oh hey here's jack all"

[winged mantle]

Why is the voted on cball furnace on the wrong island even

[chrome lantern]

Because they themselves even forgot that they didn't want to lock it behind 1/512 kraken drop

They had a perfectly fine idea which was teleporting to your boat then realized they made it prohibitively difficult to actually unlock and use

[meager flame]

i just want someone to work on it with like

fresh eyes

[winged mantle]

I don't think fresh eyes matter when the people making the final decision want us to suffer

[meager flame]

ya thats why they shouldn't be the ones working on it lol

it really should be rotated to different devs

something weird is going on where like

every single step of the way someone felt like they needed to add something that would detract from what you wanted to do or what you just unlocked to add more of a burden to it

they probably felt like it was for game balance but they went too crazy

but its actually everything

from drop rates being very stingy to your character needing to be nerfed when attacking from your ship to the rewards for doing a port task

its just bleak lol

the entire concept of how they thought cannonballs should work

[random blade]

Do you guys think they are still working on the HD thing or they just straight gave up ? Been a while since they updated us on that…

[meager flame]

they really needed to just let up on the players trying to sail and do stuff

[meager flame]

they updated us with the summit

they buried it in a blog though

basically hd still happening but they've paused the client api for plugins

[random blade]

Well for a project they announced 2 years ago, it clearly isn’t their priority

[meager flame]

so nobody will use hd since we're going to have to have runelite for the game to remain playable

[random blade]

Right…

[meager flame]

they probably should just can hd if they're not gonna do plugins

[thorn holly]

Graphics are probably the biggest barrier to new new players. It's probably high priority, but more difficult to actually nail.

[meager flame]

which hurts to say because i want hd

but theres a 0% chance im playing this game without plugins

[random blade]

Right. Man that’s sad, wish they could just focus on that instead of other things

Especially cause the beta was supposed to come out a year ago..

[thorn holly]

I play on low detail mode, I'll likely never use HD (117HD looks actual gross) but I do see it's value from a game growth perspective.

[random blade]

For sure, for new players too

[meager flame]

thats why i want the jagex version of it

since they're going to actually keep their art style and basically just bump colors/lighting/texture resolution type of stuff

[random blade]

Yeah

[thorn holly]

How about a skybox? That's literally all I want lmao.

[meager flame]

ya that is included

[random blade]

Anyway, that’s just unfortunate. They announce stuff but do not stick to it and it ends up being delayed

[thorn holly]

If they don't give a timeline, assume long. If they do, add a bit.

[random blade]

Yeah…

[thorn holly]

I'm not being a hater, to me, there's no rush for anything in this game. This game has too much game. Slow is fine.

[meager flame]

i do think thats true for most people

[random blade]

Sure I agree but man, they announced it 2 years ago. 2 years, not like a month ago

[meager flame]

like on my iron i put in an absolutely unholy amount of time so im actually kind of feeling the squeeze of not having too much left to do

[minor whale]

They said recently in Discord or Reddit that HD is closer to being finished while the API is more difficult than they thought or something along those lines

[thorn holly]

Yeah, but a graphical rework of the whole game is not a new quest.

[meager flame]

but most people probably never get that far

[minor whale]

So they're pausing one to focus on the other

[meager flame]

well yeah im sure the api is harder than they thought considering the guy heading up the project quit in november

im sure that probably didnt help lmao

[minor whale]

Unfortunately they're still really far off from HD if they're still having z-buffer issues and paused the SD renderer beta lol

[random blade]

Well update us then on the official page.

“Guys we’re working on it, coming very soon”.

[meager flame]

the z buffer things are like

kind of sad

[thorn holly]

What is z buffer?

[meager flame]

basically imagine two objects on top of each other and the game freaking out trying to figure out which to render

[minor whale]

The game renders things above other things based on an engine priority thing

[meager flame]

and usually they just kind of fade in through each other

[thorn holly]

Is that an issue right now?

[meager flame]

yeah

[minor whale]

Unfortunately, each and every item and animation seemingly had manually input zbuffer priority

Like

[random blade]

Like come on, this is not their first rodeo. They knew it would be challenging..

[meager flame]

i can probably show you can example right where im standing in game lets see

[minor whale]

Everything was given priority manually so when the new renderer was enabled it broke almost everything

Shadows at Leviathan didn't render
Loot rendered 5 feet under the ground
The ground scenery at ice dragons hovers 3 inches above the floor

Etc

[meager flame]

so this is the crafting guild floor in the mining area

and this is the floor with the old renderer

you might not even notice at first

but there are rocks missing in the above picture

there are better places in game to demonstrate but almost everywhere

you're losing minor detail

[minor whale]

Yeah everywhere with ground scenery

And dropping loot on the floor

Shadows from attacks

Just...a LOT of stuff becomes invisible when it isn't meant to

[winged mantle]

Items don't appear on the floor correctly or is that something else

[minor whale]

It's zbuffer yeah

[thorn holly]

That's not good. That's a lot of the game.

[minor whale]

A big thing when it first came in

Was your feet

Your feet were always underground

Everywhere

[winged mantle]

The rugs at chambers bank

[minor whale]

They had lowest priority, the new renderer would render them below the top layer of floor

So you were running around with the bottom half of your shoes sunk into the mud

[meager flame]

its also unfortunate that we float now

[minor whale]

Here's a few examples from here

Lava runes? More like pure essence

Casually sticking your head in the furnace

Moonlight antelope rendering below the trap spot itself lmao

[meager flame]

its one of those things where they definitely just rushed it out because sailing needed it

[winged mantle]

Expensive issues 😂

[meager flame]

where they needed a lot longer to let it cook and not just like

drop a bomb on the detail all over the game

[minor whale]

Mounted Glory got mounted a bit too deep

[meager flame]

its just crazy because we're months after this happened too

and several rounds of fixes

and i could still find something near where i was standing in the moment

like i didnt even have to go find an issue lol they're basically always on the screen even if its so small you wouldn't notice if someone didn't tell you

im a little worried it'll be like that update that just deleted shadows from trees

and jagex just sort of let it happen and ignored it for a very long time lol

i think it took them almost 2 years to fix it

[ember token]

fwiw all these examples have been fixed

[limber creek]

Wildy boss escape caves

[winged mantle]

Very fixed

[minor whale]

Half the loot at Levi also still is below the floor

[ember token]

cannot replicate

[winged mantle]

I literally went on mobile just now

That screenshot is from a couple of minutes ago

[chrome lantern]

Definitely wasn't anywhere that's easily readable or any official post in this discord. I'm not monitoring #old-school to find a post from a Jmod once in a blue moon

[ember token]

so is mine

[winged mantle]

Fascinating

Let me test on desktop after brekky

I updated my mobile app yesterday

[dark sedge]

Nah you both are right, it's more an issue with the female playerkit having slightly longer legs, will flag this, thank you 🙏

[winged mantle]

Ooo

[minor whale]

That's so interesting

[tidal cove]

I think boat movement feels good, reminds of me company of heros 2 vehicle combat, now if only the weapons and targeting weak points/thin armour flank and rear were also a thing

you could even load up a armour piercing round as a special attack

being able to disable parts of the vessel adds strategy on how you fight each massive opponent ship or giant sea creature

[vestal flame]

This is an OSRS classic

[bronze kernel]

Not to mention you pick it up with your bare hands too

[carmine junco]

This is the most coding-ass problem, lol. Glad you cleared it up.

[finite vigil]

I'm about 99% sure the dragon hook drop is bugged at great whites, anyone else had any issues?

[restive siren]

why do you think so

[finite vigil]

3k killed since update, telegrabbing only, great whites confirmed bugged regarding looting

[hard axle]

are you 15x dry?

sounds like just unlucky cuz i've had friends giving me updates about their grind and they got it for clog post-change

feel free to report as a bug in-game though

[finite vigil]

thats the motivation i needed

[restive siren]

3x dry?

brother

[hard axle]

if it helps, it's 3 separate folks

[restive siren]

[finite vigil]

that does ty

[finite vigil]

if nothing useful to say, unplug keyboard fella, ty for the responses tho

[restive siren]

"confirmed bugged"

[finite vigil]

they are confirmed bugged brother

by jagex on the news post

[restive siren]

which has nothing to do with the droprate

10s of thousands of people go 3x dry on something every day

[finite vigil]

bro i was asking a question, which you were not forced to read or reply to, just let it go

[restive siren]

nobody is forcing you to reply either champ, just one funny question

[finite vigil]

I was being polite, call it a makeawish

[restive siren]

classy

[hard axle]

ye, just heads up, if u do think it's a bug, just report in-game

they do fix it post-haste

I got a bug fixed pretty quickly and it was pretty very niche CA bug

[bronze kernel]

I remember reporting a bug with the Haunted Manor POH style and that got fixed

[meager flame]

its kind of an interesting thing because i think they quietly fix a lot of stuff

but also

back in the day i actually reported something that they ignored

until rendi uh

made a scene lol

i still dont really understand what went on there

benefit of the doubt is that it was a little difficult and was taking time until he made it a problem

i'll never understand the people that get offended though and like make youtube videos about it and show how its done lmao

they're just asking for the ban

[frank locust]

Mobile account swap wheeeeen

[chrome lantern]

I’ve reported a few bugs that haven’t gotten fixed and super annoy me

One in particular that I ran into a lot yesterday is that if you ctrl-walk while having run enabled, then your next action is to use an item on something or someone, then the game will walk even if you’re not holding ctrl anymore

[pearl tangle]

Scobo in absolute max + rupture only .5 dps less than Bowfa min lol

[quiet plank]

On what?

[pearl tangle]

Pretty much any non demon monsters.

Wow I did not know scobo was 4t as well

Why the FUCK does it take me so long to attack doom after phase transitions🤣

[meager flame]

yeah so from what i can see

thats not true

the gap on zuk for example is 1.2

[pearl tangle]

Ah shit I had the necklace on the Bowfa set up so was hitting 47

Myb

[meager flame]

also honestly

.5 is a lot when the total number is less than 10 vs most stuff

[pearl tangle]

Wait I’m confused

I’m seeing 5.0 vs 5.7 on zuk

[finite vigil]

the rest of your gear matters t oo

[meager flame]

ya it looks like something weird is going on

also why does your bowfa setup not have the max items if your scobow comparison does lol

[pearl tangle]

I was just trying to compare max scobo vs Bowfa minimum

[meager flame]

well a tbow sucks if you're naked and dont have arrows

the state of balance is insane

good day

[pearl tangle]

Hey look it was for science

And Bowfa wins

[jagged marsh]

Rupture is also gonna cost more than bowfa me feels

[finite vigil]

msb in max beats tbow in leather at hill giants

science

[austere mulch]

% is way more important of a value

"its only 1dps more" is a lot different when we're talking going from 2 to 3 vs 10 to 11

for "minimum bofa" to be >10% better than "max scobow" tells you a lot lmao

[obsidian venture]

Also scobow is literally for demons

[frozen lion]

#game-news PepePains

[analog crow]

Leagues 6 hype

[haughty tree]

vlc

[tender peak]

30 relics in total were present, currently matching them to existing relics

[austere mulch]

cant wait to repeat 2t melee, 2t range, 2t mage, last recall, and bankers note

and region locks

same story differnt colors

[tender peak]

I counted horribly wrong

[chrome lantern]

40

[limber creek]

Hope this leagues is as fun as this dmm was!

[tender peak]

I'm seeing Double Tap and Knife's Edge on the board

I don't think those specific icons have been used since L3

[restive storm]

That’s a pipe dream but I wish yall the best of luck

[limber creek]

i know lol but it can still be fun. I always play the leagues too. Its a good time usually.

[tender peak]

This is what I've got so far

the red ??? were sperated from the yellow NEW ? by whether the icon seemd to portray something thematically linked to yama or otherwise had more detail than we usually see on relic icons

[ember token]

35 might be referencing the turtle relic meme in the leagues discord, 13 is brewnana which is another meme

[tender peak]

I'm gonna be honest I thought 13 was an ink & quill

[ember token]

yeah it was a joke from gridmaster, it's a brew with a banana stuck in it

[limber creek]

6 looks like a dmm skull with no eyes etc or just a blob and im projecting the skull

[restive storm]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-pathetic-principal-skinner-gif-13486077408184960752

[wind heron]

I'm curious why there's more dislike on the new leagues?

[restive siren]

wdym

[restive storm]

Mostly probably cuz it’s the new league, same as the old league for like 99% of it lol

[ember token]

no, it's because of the membership price changes

every post since the membership price chances has been heavily thumbs down'd

you can see the amount of people thumbs downing decreasing as time passes

as people forget/stop caring

[chrome lantern]

It's also some people dissatisfied with how heavy the first half of the year is on temporary gamemodes, content creator DMM, etc. as opposed to lasting content

[ember token]

yeah im sure these still wouldve received some amount of thumbs downs

prob 2/3rds is just membership reactions though

[winged mantle]

Kinda hard to be positive about the games future when they added another price increase that was unjustified and said nothing after the fact

"say nothing and hope it blows over"

[restive siren]

nothing they could ever say would make it better

its a shitty thing they did but im mad at them for doing it, not for being quiet about it

[winged mantle]

Player trust is lessened

[restive siren]

what do you want them to say

[winged mantle]

Not say, do

[restive siren]

the change they made is bad and will not be undone, im just disagreeing with the common notion that them talking about it would make it better in any way

it would just make it worse

[winged mantle]

People made it clear where Jagex the company is falling and the price increase with a sorry excuse for justification just made us compare their game price to other games.

Reduce the price and offer discounts to additional jagex account linked profiles

I'm ok to support my favourite game and the devs hard work. greedy stakeholders asking for more when they already get more is a kick in the teeth

[gaunt minnow]

What do you want them to say?

We know you’re upset that we increased the prices but that’s the way it is so 🤷🏻‍♂️

[old frigate]

why does everyone act like Jagex is in control of everything. It's a company just like other companies. They didn't say anything cuz it wasn't their decision. They have shareholders that want more money. The blog post they put together to try to make it sound okay was not good at all though, they could've just been frank and said "hey we need more money as a company"

[winged mantle]

Would have preferred that

[gaunt minnow]

It’s not like the jmods who are responsible for communicating with the players are the ones making that decision anyway so they’d just be taking even more hate than they already have for literally no reason

[winged mantle]

My comments are at the company not the jmods

Jagex as a business

Also side note this leagues rewards are mid. Normally they kick ass

[gaunt minnow]

I’m actually really excited for the rewards this year and I’m glad they’re not just doing whatever mid pvm item transmog kit

[restive siren]

ye i think the rewards are baller

still not gonna play leagues though

[gaunt minnow]

I’m getting the thrall kit and skin recolour for sure

There was 1 other I really wanted too don’t remember now

[winged mantle]

Thank goodness we have an ibans transmog for the earlygame

[minor whale]

It's like 5 mid pvm transmogs kit and then a slayer helm (gonna cost 1k points as well) and thralls

Most people are just gonna get thralls

[limber creek]

im def gonna rock the red skin

[chrome lantern]

I mean as usual from recent events I probably just won't get any of the rewards

[analog crow]

I'll play as long as I'm having fun. During the echoes league I played until I reached adamant rank and got burned out after, probably gonna reach addy or rune this league also, but no shot I'm grinding out the dragon trophy.

[full shell]

Why are there so many dislikes on the leagues teaser? Lol

[full shell]

Ah if that’s the case then whatever lmao

[full shell]

Companies are here to make money. It’s not like they raised it by $10.00 it’s a minor increase.

Considering the amount of changes they’re currently making to RS3 I’m surprised it’s not higher.

[analog crow]

Ppl still huffing and puffing over the price increase

[solar dirge]

because its hardly game news. if we're getting pinged in the game news channel I think most of us expected it would be them fixing the dogs dinner they made of the combat update. but nope! looks like we're just getting a wasted week and it'll be next weeks update instead. oh and obligatory $16 BY THE WAY

[vivid ruin]

I thought it was 15

[winged mantle]

A price increase for the third year in a row, removing 6 month and 3 month options. This was the price increase in 2022

It might seem minor but just wait till it's $30 aud in 2 years

[minor whale]

Raised prices on top of not having any main game content until fucking Summer at the earliest lmao

6 months of temporary gamemodes YAHOOOO

[hard axle]

The people saying "it's just a $1 more" are the frogs that are killed slowly in a pot by slowly turning it up

Sure, $1 each time, but it's every month. Same irrational logic holds.

[hard axle]

Yup and if we're not counting cow boss, which is a joke update, it'll be 9 months before any main game updates.

They didn't even add it to CAs or Collection Log

[winged mantle]

The "minor" price increase compounds with irl prices. I forget some people don't have jobs/ have to pay for things outside of osrs

If they want to justify a price increase - what was the last released bit of content that didn't have bugs or had to be changed repeatedly?

[hard axle]

Yeah like, when it gets to $25 a month and $20 a month if annual, that’s when I start questioning if my 2nd account is worth paying.

And that’s only a few “$1 increase” away

9 months away if we want to be pessimistic and increase it a $1 a month each month

[hard axle]

I don’t mind the bugs, but the fact they have to be reminded to add shit to clog and CAs each time is laughable.

[winged mantle]

Companies looking at each other every year for who raises the first subscription amount - oh we charge $24/month now?

[hard axle]

It's why McDonalds and fast food chains are crying now about how no one goes to them btw.

they slowly turned up the temp and then priced folks out, and now their precious revenue stopped growing lmao

[solar dirge]

these constant "sorry we missed the mark" posts on half assed updates are far less cute when we're now expected to pay the same sub as WoW or XIV for this game

[hard axle]

When it was $5, it was like "whatever"

100% agree on that

[winged mantle]

When the price is at a certain amount we expect a certain quality 🤷🏼‍♀️

[hard axle]

I didn't mind them uncapping the player damage, but them insisting that cannons are fine as is was just tone deaf af

[meager flame]

The thing that concerns me about this is going to sound really toxic

But it probably needs to be said lol

[winged mantle]

Also to add to this - if rs3 is too cheap and osrs is being overcharged. Seperate the games and charge rs3 more 🫡

[meager flame]

Have you noticed how often they sit there and say something like “we have no idea what to do but if the community has suggestions let us know” type of moment

[winged mantle]

we hear you loud and clear no you don't

[meager flame]

Like what are we paying you guys to do

Lmao they’re supposed to tell us what they’re doing and also say they’re open to suggestions

[winged mantle]

Too many gone quiet situations when things don't pan out

[meager flame]

Not let us know that hopefully someone out there is a better game designer than they are

It’s been getting weird

[winged mantle]

I'm surprised how much the jmods see but don't say anything. I can guess they've been told not to engage with anything other than the game, bugs and positive feedback.

[meager flame]

I mean even about the game itself they just

Don’t really seem to have a lot of strong direction

[winged mantle]

Something aint right at jagex hq

[hard axle]

Every pvm update checklist:

Clog
Pet
CAs
Polled items
No bugs, actually completeable
Ideally some room for emergent gameplay

Congrats, it works!

[minor whale]

Bro they literally respond in here about certain things while never weighing in on the "hey you guys really gotta do something other than what is currently happening to tide over your angry customer base"

9 months of temp gamemodes until a new ANYTHING is not enough to make anyone excited

At least Araxxor was a surprise that shook up metas

Rancour was fantastic, filled in a gap, gave new gear that replaced Blood Fury being used everywhere by mains

This year that gap-filler content was evidently a COW

[torpid delta]

sir please respect the holy moleys surprise update

[meager flame]

I feel like somehow they’ve decided they can’t do anything without pre approval from everyone

[minor whale]

And the "hard mode" cow that can be beaten in a few attempts by just camping 1 prayer the whole fight and going from clockwise to counterclockwise clicking gives...NOTHING!

[meager flame]

So it’s always a situation of like yeah we’re thinking about stuff but uh

[finite tapir]

i dislike demonic brutus

was pitched as being harder than awakened

reality: no

[meager flame]

Why don’t you guys all give us suggestions and designs so we see what might be good

Before we do anything

It’s very weird

[winged mantle]

I've stopping giving game suggestions for now

[minor whale]

It's not even more clicks than base Leviathan being efficient 😭

It's nowhere close to awakened

It was solved in an hour

Like "click these tiles every time and never take damage"

[meager flame]

I don’t want to roast the cow update because updates like that are good and how the game should be but

They’re supposed to release with consistency

Not be the only thing

[minor whale]

Ok phase 2 "click the same tiles you were just clicking but this time you have to eat after each special attack"

Yup

If one of those came out every couple months it'd be fine and cool

[finite tapir]

i dislike that the 3/4 of the prayers are always the same

guaranteeing that you dont need to care about the first prayer bc you just preempt it

[minor whale]

We get jack shit since sailing which I was excited for but has almost 0 tie-in to the wider game at all, everything that comes from sailing is only useful at sailing, and the bosses that come from sailing are a level 40 slayer boss

It's just SO boring now
I've been playing since Inferno came out and this is the worst content drought since that stretch right after Nightmare

[meager flame]

They had a crazy one during the league dmm gim year too

This is basically the second lap of that year

[minor whale]

I was rank 1 sailing enthusiast, but if I could go back in time and vote no to a new skill if it meant we didn't get this awful dredge of nothing then I would

Like, I like sailing

I think it's solid and feels old-school

But it's not worth 9 months of nothing afterward and 6 months of nothing before

And half the updates we get are broken jank or "sorry we missed the mark"

[meager flame]

Ya my problem with it is just that they made a technically sound skill the movement is good the training methods are fine and then just peaced out and the skill is pointless and we lost a million updates for it

[solar dirge]

meanwhile they try to "justify" the price increase by comparing themselves to other mmos, which get major content drops consistently every four to five months, with new raids, dungeons and multiple other new activities

also, you know, more than one character per sub

[full shell]

Nobody likes price increases but the world itself is in a wild state and inflation has hit everyone. It sucks but it’s $1.00

I’d prefer it not increase, but again, it’s not like they raised it $5.00 so the hate is wildly overhyped

[full shell]

Where have you been dude? They released Sailing, soon Blood Moon Rises, recently the cow boss, there’s been a ton of content added recently.

[minor whale]

"A ton of content" ok what's released between Sailing and Blood Moon Rising in 3 months

[full shell]

There’s no pleasing people like you, you all just spew the same negative nonsense and can never be pleased, but you’ll still be online every day.

[minor whale]

A cow boss?

I've been playing less than ever before because nothing has come out since sailing
There's only so much "do barracuda trials" a person can do before wanting something else released

And a 50 HP cow is not "content"

[full shell]

You say this but your main has low raid KC. You barely do anything other than slayer so how can you say there’s a content drought when you’ve barely done anything?

[minor whale]

Lmao what

[full shell]

Learn some content and you won’t be bored

Simple

[winged mantle]

Need more soul, less spice

Highscores aren't impressive nor should be an indication of someones input value for the price of the game

[minor whale]

I also have 300 more ehb than Mr. Leave Jagex Alone
I only raid with friends in my chill fc and during bingos, ToA is boring as shit to solo and CoX is considerably better

"You can't criticize the game because you still enjoy it but also you need to play it more!!" Is such a funny take

Sorry man, I think 9 months of sailing fixes, cow boss, and temporary game modes is pretty shit

And saying I'm "always negative" is so funny
I applaud Jagex when they release good content even when it's not something I'm personally invested in
I think Moons of Peril kicked ass at what they intended, Doom was solid, Yama was solid, and all the Varlamore releases were fantastic

But to say 9 months of shit is just us "always complaining" then you're just not opening your eyes

[winged mantle]

Well said

[meager flame]

i think the problem here if we're being like

genuine

sailing was two weeks of content if you're gaming but not pushing too hard

the cow boss was not one day of content

blood moon is still months from now

[tacit wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/copium-cat-gif-27161395

[full shell]

I never said you can’t criticize the game, but it’s interesting that you talk about how there’s nothing to do in the game or that content is dried up yet the majority of your KC are from slayer bosses and TOA. Your EHB being higher than mine is literally because you have 5k Hydra and 2k Araxxor KC lol.

My point was that you’ve barely touched the game. No HMT, barely any regular Tob, no CMs. It’s not me talking down on you for having low KC, it’s the point that you are claiming bad game when you’ve barely touched it.

[meager flame]

so basically

jagex has released like 3 weeks of content and they're stretching it for months

[minor whale]

Please tell @hard axle he just needs to do more content for him to say the exact same shit I was saying lmao

[meager flame]

thats the brutal reality for any game developer but that's what made jagex different in the past

they used to somehow get you something almost weekly

the more casual someone is about the game the less likely they are to be having an issue currently because for them

theres a seemingly endless amount of content built up over years

but if you actually stuck around and did some of everything and right now you're kinda looking at a few pieces of content and you might not even really like them that much

not getting updates sucks

[winged mantle]

Not to mention blood moon rises was pushed back

[meager flame]

ya the bingo feature is low key funny too

im not even mad that they want to add that as an update but like

they're reaching that isn't something for its dedicated single tile as if thats some huge milestone update for the year

the sweep up probably shouldn't be presented like that either but at least that one is going to generate like

controversy and discussion as usual

so i can understand that one being on there

[winged mantle]

2024 even

[meager flame]

i wish i could listen in on jagex meetings right now with the devs

something is going on lol

[full shell]

I’m not really sure what time period you’re referring to but we’ve had more high quality updates today than any other time in OSRS history. We used to get roadmaps with holiday events on them and went from that to actual content being released throughout the year.

And the temporary game modes are highly anticipated every year. It brings back a massive amount of players every time which is why dev time is spent on it.

[true talon]

Prob just because they also planned raids 4 this year, so they normally do DMM into leagues spread over a gap, but instead they are doing two b2b temp game modes early in the year to buy time for the summer and winter drops, majority of people play during the summer. so having a hype release then is great.

[winged mantle]

Idk at this rate I wouldn't be surprised if that gets pushed back to 2027

[true talon]

Temp game modes are best to boost engagement. also they havnt released anything regarding what the sweep up will contain.

Im hoping its some CM reform regarding prayer scrolls, reworked shadow, some TOB stuff.

[meager flame]

pre osrs is when they were legitimately good at it but no we don't get more/better updates today than we did in the past

you dont even have to look hard

jagex does better than this year most years in recent memory

[limber creek]

At least we can rest easy knowing there won't be a pvp update.

[true talon]

seeker arrows going to be pretty damn op for pvp

[full shell]

Different time period, different team, less content overall

[limber creek]

True gonna dbow rush some fools

[full shell]

Comparing now to 20 years ago doesn’t make sense to me

[meager flame]

yeah but you dont even have to

compare it to last year

case closed

[true talon]

pvp issue is you cant add power creep with 99 hp as the limit

people already being 1 shot

[full shell]

How so? Lol

[limber creek]

completely agreed. new food was powercreep for pvp too lol

[full shell]

Case closed? We had Varlamore releases last year but somehow that’s not good content?

[limber creek]

moons is great content

barrows 2

[meager flame]

look at it we got varlamore sailing yama doom and it was rolling out with decent pacing

this year the main game doesn't get an update with substance until the summer

[true talon]

even adding the new food which gave you 4 extra hp to heal, your still limited at 99 hp.......

ags maul can do like 130 damage

[meager flame]

and then after that you get to sit and wait until they announce the raid was delayed to 2027 most likely

[true talon]

voidwaker can hit a 80

[meager flame]

but if not at the end of the year you finally get something again

[true talon]

I dont think the raid will be delayed

[full shell]

You could sum that up into two updates in the first half of 2025 and then the remainder of the year was sailing, so it’s literally the same as this upcoming year

Except this time it’s towards the second half of 2026

[true talon]

they will have nothing coming p after bloodmoon in the summer

raid will be their big ticket drop

[meager flame]

i would be happy if it isn't but

if you just check out roadmaps for the last few years

most of the updates at the end get bumped to the following year

[true talon]

well if its late winter like december, it makes more sense to push it to early 2027

so you got time to address problems

[meager flame]

so its just kind of realistic to expect based on past behavior

[austere mulch]

And they have zero wiggle room for a delay with the raid since it’s planned for late 2026 on the roadmap

One delay and it becomes 2027

If I were a betting man…

[true talon]

You cant just drop raids 4 late december an everyone go on holiday XD an leave the content not properly working

[meager flame]

i mean

[winged mantle]

Sailing

[meager flame]

they released a whole new skill and did that

so they probably will

lmao

[true talon]

Sailing release was fine tby

[winged mantle]

What

Even

[true talon]

Only thing broken was combat

[full shell]

Sailing had its issues but it was pretty polished for the most part

For the first skill release it was damn good

[meager flame]

i think sailing combat was just a huge mistake to release

[winged mantle]

Sailing release was awful

[true talon]

They tried to do to much at once

[meager flame]

but other than that it kinda worked but also they were sorta going crazy trying to look at salvage rates and stuff

[full shell]

Combat was definitely a joke though lol

[limber creek]

im just glad they gave an afk exp method and not something like runecrafting

[true talon]

Sailing combat, were you go out on a boat and shadow things down XD

[meager flame]

i remember those blogs and they were basically talking about stuff like

"yeah we're gonna try to get this in for the last update of the year"

they were definitely under a lot of time pressure to do anything about sailing issues

[full shell]

Tbh I think the whole “cannons as a secondary method of DPS” was justified

Idk why they did the weird cannon changes but

[meager flame]

its because

[full shell]

We shouldn’t be able to kill gods with a shadow but a bird has 80% resistances to it

[meager flame]

honestly i think they just disagree with the community feedback and they're sorta coming up with non obvious solutions

because they dont want to just bend the knee to what people are telling them

[full shell]

Having cannons be slow but hit hard was the simple solution

I forget exactly what they did instead but it was something odd

And 60% chance to save cannonballs is still terrible lol

Have it be on par with the assembler at 80%

Cannonballs are way more annoying to get

[meager flame]

its honestly not even that hard they just have some kind of underlying aversion to what you'd expect as someone just walking into the situation

like as a player you wouldn't get on a ship with cannons you built and expect to be more powerful than your artillery right lol

[obsidian venture]

They could have helped themselves by releasing sailing in better chunks to not have this drought.

Also taking almost 5 months to fix sailing combat is abysmal

[meager flame]

and you also wouldn't expect setting foot on a ship to immediately nerf the shit out of your character

so the common sense angle here is that you stay the same but those cannons are scary

[obsidian venture]

It’s just really bad when you have basically an afk skill with some random shit and then a cow boss, followed by dmm and leagues

Like what are we trying to defend

[full shell]

There are a lot of inconsistencies

[obsidian venture]

The price increase doesn’t effect me but I can still see the issue

[full shell]

The HP of the monsters also make no sense

[obsidian venture]

Had to resort to pking to fill the gaps

[meager flame]

but jagex for some reason has some kind of aversion to the common sense angle

[full shell]

Some of these birds have close to 200hp

[meager flame]

they keep trying to nerf players or make cannons not do a lot of dps but allow players to be normal

[obsidian venture]

I mean j mods have legit said they don’t mind wrong information

[winged mantle]

Artificially extending sailing "content"

[obsidian venture]

Which is a horrible stance

[meager flame]

and people are just running into that decision and being unsatisifed

[full shell]

I don’t think they’re intentionally trying to keep us from grinding sailing.

[meager flame]

thats why they complain their gear seems useless because the boat previously nerfed them

[winged mantle]

No making sailing last as long as possible

[meager flame]

they complain cannons aren't meeting expectations because rather than being powerful and acting like cannons lmao

[winged mantle]

From the rates, to the combat

[meager flame]

they're instead thralls to help you mage npcs

[winged mantle]

Calc how long a maxed sloop takes to get on an iron, or a merchant paint

[full shell]

It’s here to stay so I don’t think they’re intentionally trying to extend the current content or make themselves look incompetent for the sake of a few extra months lol

They’ll be releasing more content as time goes on

[winged mantle]

The sailing mob hp

[full shell]

But for some reason the combat is such a difficult issue

Ah I see what you mean

I don’t think that’s extending it though, I think they just messed up lol

[winged mantle]

It comes across as such

[obsidian venture]

Don’t get me wrong, I did like sailing to 99 but it didn’t feel complete. Also the huge gap between the next chunk is just bad. Rather quicker fixes with them play testing further releases and having a month gap

[full shell]

They probably expected cannons to be a better asset and the HP was a reflection of that

[winged mantle]

The reasoning behind rates and just the silence is deafening rn