game-update

[tacit pendant]

Nobody wants that dude

We should want to have a maxed boat as part of our "max gear"

[lime fog]

its not that, its just that manual cannoning is hella tedious

if they want to fix that they should just give us a station that when manned by the player does 2 things:

1. it boosts crewmate cannon dmg to the point that it comes close to player + crewmate dps
2. allow us to collect loot without leaving that station

[austere mulch]

Outside of the one master clue step, I agree lol

[ashen yarrow]

it is pretty hard to make player on cannon deal more damage than max gear player with full damage without skipping gear requirement which players want to keep as main dps source

[tacit pendant]

I dont hate cannons being something your crew is mostly relegated to. But a right click "target L" "target R" option like yall mentioned would go a long way

[austere mulch]

Sailing isn’t a combat skill, so it’s valid to want player damage (using actual combat skills) to be the majority of your damage

Doesn’t mean the gap should be as big as it is though

[tacit pendant]

Not that irl is the basis for literally any part of this game. But manning cannons has always been lame grunt work

[austere mulch]

Which it won’t be forever, at least per Reddit comments

But still

[ashen yarrow]

issue is that all sailing content will be balanced 90% around player gear

[austere mulch]

Oh yeah there’s no shortage of issues that come from every angle

It’s why I think combat coming at launch was a mistake

[tacit pendant]

I mean ship defense and speed is a part of balance and will play a part in the current system

Having a bad hull gets your wrecked by unprayable damage. I would just like SOME level of damage mitigation through prayer

[austere mulch]

Maybe we’ll get some sort of altar/beacon facility that allows player prayers to interact with the ship in some capacity

[tacit pendant]

Really we needed a baseline. "This is how we intend bosses to look like in ship combat" designed with fun at the forefront. And build systems that accomplish that

[austere mulch]

Truth of the matter is prayers add depth to combat options so not having them be useful at all just sets you up for boring encounters

[lime fog]

in general sailing just doesnt have room for skill expression through combat

the movement is sluggish, no usage of weapon variety or prayer or anything

[lime fog]

again something this could solve:
switch between direct shot, lobbed shot and even special ammo types like chain/explosive

sort of fire director position

[ember token]

[[runic shield generator]]

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Runic_shield_generator

[hasty shard]

i think an issue with the mobs is that like, they are all treating them as if we should fight them the exact same way

so you get the equivalent of a chicken that has the same hp as giant mole for some reason

when they really should just be fundamentally different

like, why in the fuck is kiting not at all feasible to do

it should feel like an actual naval battle to fight a kraken and not take a shit ton of damage

and seagulls should just literally die in one hit to a cannon

[tacit wharf]

would be interesting if sea monsters shot projectiles in a direction and you just have to dodge them and keep moving

[hasty shard]

like imagine if there wasnt a single burst task in slayer and it was all just increasing levels of drakes

[austere mulch]

Pre-catacomb days were dark times…

You’d be surprised, or maybe not, at how many ehp people complained about access to barrage tasks getting expanded lol

[chrome lantern]

Slayer is all awful all the time, barrage just lets you do it faster

The task system is constraining and archaic

[fossil mural]

Unlocking weapon damage fully on sailing monsters is a mistake

[restive storm]

????? im curious what vision you would have of a healthy slayer skill lol

[chrome lantern]

I don't think we need to get rid of tasks but the fact that we only have tasks as an option to train slayer is pretty awful.

Frankly, I don't think Slayer should be a skill. But fundamentally, my most concise argument is a comparison: Hunter rumors aren't the only way to train Hunter, they're just one method. Slayer tasks systems have not progressed over time and have only become more limiting, especially with the large quantity of task-only enemies, bosses, and drop rates.

Aside from those, the Slayer helmet existing at all means that if anything can be reliably killed on-task, it must be killed on-task to be remotely effective. The task system, even with the implementation of task storage and making task storage less bad, players have little to no agency over how they actually interact with slayer on a task-to-task basis. Task storage just means that you end up with two tasks that you "should" do, but don't want to do at that time, instead of one task that you "should" do but don't want to.

On top of that, the imbued (saturated) heart massively constrains an entire combat style outside of raids, given how strongly tethered powered staffs are to the boost the heart provides. Forgotten brews were a decent attempt to increase non-heart magic boosts, but fall drastically short because of draining melee stats, not having a divine option, and being a worse boost than the saturated heart, which is a megarare costing over 100m gp or tens of millions of slayer xp just to reasonably use magic at a remotely strong capacity outside of raids, far outstripping the effects of other similarly-priced gear - even the full ancestral set is less significant than the heart boost.

Fundamentally, I don't really think Slayer makes sense at all as a skill, but it's drastically held back by task lists that are 95% things you would never kill in your life - as demonstrated by Turael skipping, in that the best way to do tasks is to not do them.

[round lintel]

Also getting forgotten brews is kinda of a mission on its own

[grizzled imp]

I'm gonna go out and say that if not for the removal of damage caps on non-sailing combat, this would have actually been a really good update. But cannons have been pretty underpowered since launch and needed a buff rather than a rebalance, and the removal of the damage cap made them basically irrelevant. Made a bunch of cannonballs in anticipation of the update and I have been pretty disappointed in spite of all the good.

That, and the flat armor of the veiled kraken kind of sucks.

[round lintel]

I think thats why the player island suggestion passed cuz of the boss drop suggestion

[chrome lantern]

There's no good reason that the majority of task lists are bloat tasks, often with no requirements in the first place. A positive step toward making the task system suck less would be cleaning up task lists in light of the fact that we've added so many things since the start of slayer - creatures with no (or even low) slayer requirements such as trolls, kalphites, suquah, even demons and dragons, should be entirely removed from the base task lists of higher-level slayer masters and made into optional unlocks instead - like what we have for Basilisks, Lizardmen, and Gryphons

That said, that's only one step toward mitigating the negative effects of a fundamentally flawed and archaic slayer task system.

[round lintel]

I hate: Trolls, Ankous, suqahs, fire giants and elves

and those are after my block list

[chrome lantern]

Fire giants are a great example where they make no sense on high-level task lists, but you still might want to unlock them for Royal Titans. Just like what we have with Basilisk Knights and Lizardman Shamans.

[grizzled imp]

I think a good compromise for task lists would be to be able to pay slayer points to "favor" certain kinds of tasks. Like, you pay 200 points to be put on a list of tasks with only draconic and draconic-adjacent monsters, or humanoids, etc. Just like blocking a task, you don't get the points back if you swap to a different list or go back to the default, and there'd probably be a restriction on blocking tasks (i.e you couldn't set up a blocklist in such a way that there were only 2 valid tasks on the short list)

But this way you could kind of tip the scales in favor of the kind of monster you want to slay, for a price, in addition to locking yourself out of anything else (can't chase tormented demons or K'ril if you're on the dragons short list, for example)

[chrome lantern]

I think there are probably a number of things you could do to improve the system but it all has to start with acknowledging that despite having a wide range of tasks you could get, Slayer is the most constrained skill we have for how you train it, how you get rewards, and so much more

[grizzled imp]

if you're going to take that angle, at least hit us with a suggestion for how you'd unconstrain it

[tacit wharf]

i still think tureal skipping is a bane of slayer and prevents it from getting any meaningful changes and people skip way to many tasks for the sake of xp/hr

[round lintel]

The slayer cape perk should be once a day let you choose your task instead of what it is.

[chrome lantern]

For one thing, I think the player-designed island proposal of the mini-imbued heart should be flipped with the imbued heart. It would make way more sense to have the stronger version come from an actual boss.

Another thing I mentioned was improving the current task system using things like moving tasks to optional unlocks and rebalancing the task tables.

[round lintel]

I also hate that you pay for an unlock for example aviansis lets say you need to remove the possibility of getting them later and you have to pay again...

To get it back

[grizzled imp]

given how rare the imbued heart is that feels like a kick in the teeth to get something so rare only for it to be trash. People already get disappointed when the "rare" drop they get is a dragon spear

"make it more common"

[chrome lantern]

As far as alternatives to tasks go, there are suggestions out there in #1022203837265756231 I've seen floated around

[chrome lantern]

I mean there's no reason it should be remotely as rare as it is, especially if it were changed to be weaker

Even right now there's no reason it's as rare as it is with how much of a stranglehold it has on magic outside of raids

But the imbued heart is only a part of the larger puzzle

[round lintel]

Ive seen peps with over 40M xp without heart

[chrome lantern]

Some of these I've seen have been older posts that were similar to the Sailing bounty system, larger events or dungeons themed around slayer creatures that give xp, even hybrid training methods etc.

[round lintel]

Id def take the heart somewhere else

[chrome lantern]

Frankly, Sailing bounty tasks for creatures that also required Slayer levels/equipment also would have been a way to integrate Sailing into the greater game world as well

[grizzled imp]

I think that once we get the new island and an "imbued heart lite" exists, the imbued heart won't have nearly the same stranglehold on magic and it'll be fine for it to be so rare/expensive

[torn portal]

Forgotten/ancient pots exist already tbh

[chrome lantern]

It still will because the proposed heart is worse than forgotten brews, and also not divine

[round lintel]

Thats assuming Jagex put that in the poll, rememver it was just a suggestion

[chrome lantern]

Yeah and they're awful

[grizzled imp]

does the new heart drop your other stats like forgotten brews do?

[chrome lantern]

No divine option and they drain your melees so they really suck to use at places you'd want to use them most such as nightmare/etc.

[chrome lantern]

No, but it would be a worse boost

[grizzled imp]

ok and

[round lintel]

They takes ages to make on an iron and on a main you wouldnt use them

[grizzled imp]

the eye of ayak is a worse powered staff than the shadow but we shouldn't make the shadow more common as a result

you want bis? pay for bis

[chrome lantern]

It would still be significantly worse than forgotten brews, much less the imbued/saturated heart, and therefore doesn't change any of the fundamental issues

[tacit pendant]

Forgotten brews are bad at a lot the places you use heart because they drop melees

[grizzled imp]

i don't have an imbued heart, and i rarely use forgotten brews
so i just use powered staves with my magic as is, and that's fine
the new heart is an objective upgrade and honestly that's pretty cool

[round lintel]

The problem isnt really the rarity on its own but the system to get it

You could make it 1/3k from a yama type boss

[tacit pendant]

The new heart is very good for mains and irons

[round lintel]

But the fact that it only comes from superiors while doing slayer

[grizzled imp]

the fact of the matter is you don't NEED imbued heart. Yes, you will be stronger with it, but you do not NEED it, you are not entitled to it, everything else is not shit because of its existence

[round lintel]

And then still super rare...

Shared with 4 other drops in the table

[fleet bolt]

This update is a complete joke and a slap in the face. Who the hell wants to use weapons we use everywhere else when we are on a SHIP with CANNONS.

[chrome lantern]

When the discussion was around whether TDs should drop Dragon claws during WGS blogs, the idea was floated that they should drop the imbued heart for target-farming it, but unfortunately that got shot down. Any sort of alternative to tens of millions of xp of menial labor for something designed as a megarare is a desirable outcome.

[tacit pendant]

The arguement you dont need it actually works way better post angelic hearts release lol

[grizzled imp]

.

[chrome lantern]

Sure, but if that's the argument then why have any upgrades at all

[grizzled imp]

thats the argument im making

[chrome lantern]

The angelic heart doesn't address any of the fundamental issues with magic because it will still be non-divine and a significant drop in dps compared to the single megarare menial labor item. It will be less of a gap compared to not boosting at all, but it still wouldn't be your best alternative to the heart and it still wouldn't solve any of the issues the heart poses

[tacit pendant]

New heart isnt a divine 🙁

[chrome lantern]

I mean tbf we don't have a blog for it yet but it wasn't in the proposal

Like a poll blog for specific island activities/rewards I mean

[tacit pendant]

It would be so doa if not

[grizzled imp]

if you're hurting that bad over the dps loss from imbued to angelic that's just kind of a you thing. I agree that the method of obtaining an imbued heart sucks, but I'm not going to throw a fit about not having one, especially when a lesser alternative that's easier to acquire is coming

[tacit pendant]

It would need to be like the same boost as base heart to be worth it as a non-divine boost

[round lintel]

I mean again im not particularly mad about how rare the heart is but the system designed to even have a chance is ludacris in my opinion.

[tacit pendant]

The system is ridiculous

[round lintel]

Thats my only problem

[tacit pendant]

Its slowly getting better when they put out shit like araxxytes and venator bow

But its still a long way off

Atleast you can afk it to an extent. Tbow or scythe if you go dry on an iron you just never get that dps unless you do more and more active content

[round lintel]

Yeah but lets say you have a hydra task. Killing regular hydras with max and cannon takes a little over 1:40 seconds and my avg kill with tbow on the boss is 1:30

But thats the best chance

[tacit pendant]

Hydras arent super relevant to the heart grind no? You dont run konar

[chrome lantern]

I think you're missing the point. The problem isn't that I am whining about not having max dps - I've done a lot of things without max dps, especially playing as an iron. What I'm doing is pointing out the fundamental shortcomings of slayer as a skill, and an entire item that holds a disproportionate amount of power for an entire combat style from a single source that isn't in line with what it could or should be. Even if the system isn't changed, I will still use magic where it makes sense to use magic, but that doesn't change the fact that the imbued (saturated) heart is inherently problematic to magic, and the fact that existing alternatives suck, and proposed future options will still fundamentally not change what is currently viable as alternatives at all

[round lintel]

You also have drakes and other mobs that are horrible tasks so it ends up you being point skipping for abby demons, smoke devils and araxxytes.

[chrome lantern]

They are in the sense that when I was killing 2600 hydras I was using an awful slayer master that can't even assign araxytes

I have 27m slayer xp, but 15m of it came from bosses alone

And I'm not even close to the rate for heart

[round lintel]

10th tasks konar for points :/

[tacit pendant]

True true

[grizzled imp]

I think you missed the part where I agreed that the method of obtaining the heart sucks. You also missed the part where the imbued heart doesn't have a stranglehold on anyone but the sweats once the angelic version drops.

Anyways, I have work to do

[tacit pendant]

Yeah idk that anyone here thinks imbued hearts drop method is good

I think angelic is the only bone jagex is gonna throw at us though

[meager flame]

I mean compared to what it was it’s great tbh

[round lintel]

Thats why I said they could put it in a boss like Yama difficulty but 1/3k and no one would complaint.

[chrome lantern]

A non-divine boost to 107 that decays for 8 minutes before you can reboost is so so so much worse than the saturated heart, it's not just about sweats lol

[meager flame]

I would never have made it how they made it but at least today just saying I’m gonna go for it is realistic and like something you can do

[tacit pendant]

I dont necessarily think it not saying divine means it wont be

[chrome lantern]

That's fair but I guess I'm just assuming it works like the imbued heart does exactly

[thick beacon]

i think thats fine tbh u dont need it for raids really its still under 100hours. tbow takes way longer and is just accepted. can get forgotten brews to

[chrome lantern]

Given that it's only stated as "A weaker imbued heart"

Because if it's divine then arguably it's stronger than the base imbued heart

[meager flame]

The main problem now I would say isn’t length of time or rarity but rather that basically

[tacit pendant]

We will just need the saturated angelic heart

[meager flame]

There isn’t a fun way to do it

[round lintel]

Even if its that way they can make it saturated with 75k ancient essences to keep same boost but divine.

[meager flame]

Like it should have a chance to come from bosses and so on somewhere

[round lintel]

But in the end only they know if this is even going to be polled

[tacit pendant]

Imbued heart on scorpias drop table, checkmate irons

[meager flame]

And not exclusively be an ice barrage and venator bow afk reward

[round lintel]

Yeah they can make it like 1/10k from any slayer boss

[thick beacon]

ive always thought it would be fitting for the heart to be dropped from slayer bosses

[meager flame]

It’s one of those times where they’re intentionally obtuse and work at the problem the wrong way

They keep giving you more afk aoe task availability to take the hours down

But it’s never been fun and they try so hard to ignore that

[tacit pendant]

Why fix something when the fix can be ✨ reward space ✨

[chrome lantern]

It's been on the reward space for how long now?

xd

[round lintel]

Tbf only 2 of those are news everything else already existed.

Gryphons and araxxytes

[chrome lantern]

The only reward space they've touched with the heart was making the issue worse by saturating it and making the saturated heart divine

[meager flame]

Yeah but you get more points better blocks higher superior chance better locations

[chrome lantern]

But yeah even at 107 divine, the gap with sat heart would still be sizeable

[thick beacon]

maybe like 2max hits prob like 3-4% dps increase

[round lintel]

Put the heart in ToA

Lmao

[tacit pendant]

Custodian stalkers were so close to making the cut for duradaddy

Fuck put the heart in tob, loot table solved

[meager flame]

They try so hard to not admit the problem is who the fuck actually wants to just afk 30k abyssal demons and so on

[chrome lantern]

30k smoke devils

It's way more Abyssal demons

[round lintel]

Cant even afk that much cuz when u see someone is crashing you

[chrome lantern]

52,800 with elite CA

Abyssal demons

[austere mulch]

It’d be cool if you could use points to boost or reduce task weightings, within limits

[meager flame]

Yeah but you do them concurrently with other stuff

[chrome lantern]

Only 47520 if you kill them all in the wilderness (must be on Krystilia task where they are super rare)

I don't even think abyssal demons are on maxeff heart hunting anymore are they

iirc it's just smoke devils and araxytes

[thick beacon]

prefer list from rs3 basically?

[meager flame]

Probably not I think araxyte replaced

[austere mulch]

I’m unfamiliar with basically everything that came after eoc so I’m not sure

But say you could use points to increase/decrease weightings by 2

So you can’t reduce something to 0

Or increase it to a million

[meager flame]

They should also make a new master for higher levels

[austere mulch]

But you can still influence

[meager flame]

That way durdael doesn’t have an absolutely insane list and they have to add literally everything as a points unlock

I have no idea why he was just deemed to be the eternal high level master no matter how bad it gets

[austere mulch]

Because then you could block your 7 tasks or whatever, and then +2 weight all of the tasks you want and -2 weight all of the tasks you don’t at the cost of points

[round lintel]

To be honest things they need to reshape after leagues:

• Imbued/Sat heart.
• Dragon Nails
• Level requirements for max boat
• 99 capes perks
• Death coffer only taking items worth 10k+ but most of the new drops are onyx bolts/onyx bolt tips or battlestaves.

[chrome lantern]

I don't think the last one is an issue at all

[austere mulch]

Wouldn’t be a perfect solve but it would also still respect the current system

[meager flame]

Tbh I’m migrating over to just never releasing anything for sailing combat again

Just so whatever dev process that is stays far away from me

[austere mulch]

I’d trade ship combat for deep see drilling any day

But they wanted more time to flesh out the latter

[round lintel]

I mean having 30m worth of onyx bolts is fine? Rather put them in the death coffer xD is a problem for many

[chrome lantern]

I remember when they floated dredging as a concept

[austere mulch]

When in reality it should’ve been reversed

[chrome lantern]

[[High alchemy]]
[[Grand exchange]]

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/High_Level_Alchemy
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Grand_Exchange

[chrome lantern]

Take your pick

[meager flame]

Yeah ship combat and the like responses and updates for it so far

[chrome lantern]

Or even selling to shops

[meager flame]

Lmao straight up I have no idea how or why

[round lintel]

4 months to bring today's update and for me personally is dog water except for the cannonball saving

[chrome lantern]

Steak is too juicy

Can't alch my bolts

[meager flame]

I know exactly what this feels like

[chrome lantern]

What is even the new cannon attack speed

[round lintel]

I just drop em to my main cba taking 3 hrs of gameplay to alch 5k bolts. Paid for the bonds

[chrome lantern]

I also tried comparing the cannon stats to old cannon stats but I can't find the old stats even on wiki edit history xd

[austere mulch]

Old stats are on the blog I think

[round lintel]

Yeah whoever edited removed old info

[austere mulch]

They have a side by side

[meager flame]

Back in halo 3 I was one of the people to help test and implement competitive settings for mlg and it was pretty fun even though bungie was honestly not present however in the future after 343 took over for later games

[chrome lantern]

It's not side-by-side it's just accuracy and str

[austere mulch]

Halo 3… my beloved

[austere mulch]

Truly unfort

[meager flame]

Their settings adjustments were obvious but it took them years to do the things I realized had to be done in like the first week

[chrome lantern]

Side-by-side is just the cannonball yield changes

For loot/thieving

[meager flame]

That’s jagex with sailing right now

[chrome lantern]

Which are comical btw

Ah yes now I can 1/256 steal one dragon cannonball and I get 1-2 additional cannonballs from salvaging loot

[meager flame]

We just waited 4 months for something that was like brain dead obvious the first time anyone used a ship to attack something

The future is looking bleak

Like lol we went through a month of basically raging about it while they went on vacation

Fair enough everyone needs time off

Then we didn’t take action because we decided to survey players instead

Then took our sweet time to interpret the data

Only to arrive here months later where we do almost nothing aside from the glaringly obvious like avas

And I guess unleash ayak in the sea world

[shut wadi]

well i dont understand why people have thumbs down the update so much, im loving ship combat now, its great!

thank you very much for todays update @winged ledge

[meager flame]

That’s because the price increase hasn’t been responded to

Just like everything else since then

I’m curious what the process is for updating sailing though I don’t think jagex has ever come off this slow to feedback

From the outside it comes off like someone refuses to believe it needs adjustment and so the other people have to bomb them with data to make a point or something

Usually jagex gets huge feedback on new updates and iterates over days and weeks not months

[shut wadi]

yeah theres been a lot going on lately though to be fair.

[mental crane]

I could just be dry asf but did the drop rate change for ray barbs at stingrays?
Ship combat doesnt seem any faster but the fire at will is very nice for low level mobs that cant hit your boat

[ashen yarrow]

they said they didnt touch the unique drops but changed some stuff on drop tables

[tacit pendant]

Has there been a lot going on though? Im not trying to be unfair but its been quiet since dmm and even that has to be like, not the whole team

[meager flame]

Honestly compared to the usual no

Unless it’s all internal

[shut wadi]

well they had a lot of sailing updates to do when it released, which were more important to the general game play. Then since yeah they've had so much. I think its good that they took their time with sorting out the combat because now its perfect.

im having a blast tonight, pun intended 😛

[meager flame]

Yeah the sea thralls and magic expansion update from today is perfect

[tacit pendant]

It released in november i think thats where the compaints above were coming from

And idk perfect feels off. Theres hardly foundation here to build any meaningful pvm encounters

[meager flame]

But yeah it’s mostly just that they’re very slow and hesitant to do anything even though it’s like

Probably one of the most universally criticized updates to actually go into the game

Ship combat really flopped with people

[shut wadi]

yeah it was pretty bad

[round lintel]

has anyone gotten any cannons from veiled krakens?

[austere mulch]

Someone posted 2 in 100kc on Reddit this morning

[round lintel]

well i just started im at 37

and thats all i need... 2

hopefully i get the same luck

[meager flame]

the part that sucked was realizing that cannon damage right now is intended and they think its in a good spot based on a reddit reply

tldr basically they said that they dont have super rare and engaging cannons to get and of course that cant compete with our other gear

and of course the guy that asked how the 1 in 20k cannon wasn't rare enough got ignored but lol

it just hurts to know they think this is good

[ashen yarrow]

shooting cannon yourself is pretty good damage, dragon maxes at 70, rune maxes at 56 (112 range)

idk about crewmates after update since they no longer scale with sailing levels, is it always max damage then

[meager flame]

thats the interesting part to me because

as far as i can tell you're not really supposed to shoot your own cannon

[limber creek]

im not excited for boat pvp if people can dragon cannon rag me a 70 in a single hsot

[meager flame]

like they provided a setup where it looks pretty decent but actually you shouldn't really do that ever and instead should use like idk

a shadow for example

and turn your cannon npcs into thralls

im not really sure why they did that though

like if you back up the logic to the point where they decided the player and the crewmates should not do the same damage when using a cannon

im not sure they made the right choice there

[ashen yarrow]

before the player damage update shooting cannon yourself was good, now with players dealing 100% damage the bis gear is a lot higher dps than you on cannon

[meager flame]

because really your crewmates are just an extension of your player

the penalty for using them kind of doesn't even make sense

[ashen yarrow]

they are always supposed to be weaker on boat than player

[meager flame]

yeah but does that even make sense

gameplay wise aren't we just clicking in a slightly different order and still manually controlling everything lol

[limber creek]

you think johnny mcnpc deserves to shoot as hard as 99 sailing chadington?

[ashen yarrow]

even 50% player damage still makes it better to have both crewmates on cannon if you have good gear

[meager flame]

i actually think the way they had it before was closer to making sense but obviously missed the mark

because at that point it was mostly about using your ship to do ship things and the player using a bowfa or whatever at the same time was like a little extra on top

[ashen yarrow]

the old player damage was bad sicne you were hoping for 1% lottery to hit high

[meager flame]

but the goal of you know

having your ship be the source of power and so on

that makes sense

[ashen yarrow]

yeah that is why i would say max 50% player damage, not full 100%

[meager flame]

tbh i think cannons should just do crazy damage and sailing npcs should have large hp pools

and then players could just do regular damage but you'd be focused on getting your cannons doing their max dps

[ashen yarrow]

yeah that would be ideal but people want to use their max gear in sailing

[meager flame]

and honestly i'd probably drop the idea that crewmates should just suck for whatever reason

and focus on allowing the player to be the captain and tell the guys on their boat what to do

and if they can also figure out how to attack with their shadow or whatever while they do it

great

but that shouldn't be the main source of damage

[ashen yarrow]

but i want to know why there is time limit on "fire at will" option on crewmates

[meager flame]

when i read that i understand they're trying to prevent combat from being too afk

[ashen yarrow]

they just randomly stop shooting and turn back to follow captains orders

[meager flame]

but lmao it was totally one of those "that's a really jank solution and i'd never see this anywhere but rs"

[tacit wharf]

guess its to prevent people from basically afk

[meager flame]

they should've just realized that fire at will shouldn't be an option

[tacit wharf]

using a 2nd acc to loot the corpses, maybe

[meager flame]

like

players should be asked to navigate and tell their crew what to attack at the same time

thats the gameplay of being the captain of the ship lol

idk why they tried to automate part of that but make them come back every 10 minutes and be annoying

it would be like our characters had an aggressive option instead of auto retaliate so you could focus on moving

but otherwise your character just hit whatever was nearby at all times

[tacit wharf]

u can turn yr cannon on and afk kill monsters with auto retaliate on

u can go to the bandit camp in the desert with a god item, afk for 10 mins

[meager flame]

yeah but thats because npcs are attacking you so your character attacks back which honestly

i dont really think that should exist either

[tacit wharf]

im assuming that this is the exact same thing

[meager flame]

its not an option that says

hey just kill everything that moves while im afk

[tacit wharf]

does a cannon not do that

i get that it wont for nearly as long

[meager flame]

im saying it should not do that

[tacit wharf]

but thats still 60 hits in a singles zone

[ashen yarrow]

i would like to tag these manta rays for my crew but the setting change makes it harder

[tacit wharf]

u still gotta loot yr kills

or u dont get loot

so u still have to semi pay attention

[meager flame]

ya i just dont think sailing combat should be an idle clicker

[ashen yarrow]

currently have to either double click or right click to swap between do not follow orders and follow orders

[meager flame]

the gameplay is picking targets and moving there shouldn't be options to do it for you

i do agree that the actual gameplay they produced is kind of problematic though

the targeting itself and fiddling with the interface is pretty not great

but they should work on fixing that rather than you know just allowing cannons to fire on everything without input

[round lintel]

tbh i just started using my own cannon

and is faster than 2 crewmates using rune cannons

and me using an rcb diamond bolts

on veiled krakens

[meager flame]

you gotta use magic

[round lintel]

on veiled krakens?

magic defense says +325

[meager flame]

i haven't done those in particular but i saw most stuff had flat armor so im assuming they do as well

magic ignores flat armor

[ashen yarrow]

magic ignores flat armor but you will splash like crazy without late game magic gear

[round lintel]

ye i got ayak

[meager flame]

ya just looking at the calc

[round lintel]

with that defence idt magic is optimal

[ashen yarrow]

player on rune cannon with rune cannonballs is good if you dont have shadow or ayak + confliction

[meager flame]

a shadow is roughly 3 times more dps than a zcb with dragon diamond e

on veiled kraken

tldr take the ayak to sea world

[round lintel]

i have ayak and confliction i just didnt know it was good with that magic defence haha

[meager flame]

that flat armor stuff is so insane its the only play

[ashen yarrow]

splashing like 50% of hits but still great since hits are not reduced by the flat 15 armor

with ahrim ayak + confliction was around 25% faster kills than me on rune cannon

[meager flame]

i honestly cant even come up with a flat armor justification

i kind of think that maybe they were like me and didnt even realize that flat armor doesn't apply to magic since i dont think anything i mage has it

[ashen yarrow]

they gave it less max hp so they wanted to slow kills down but i just dont think that justifies it

[meager flame]

because lol

[round lintel]

i mean this kraken is sooo accurate

[meager flame]

why does it have the range weakness if they were going to make that an absolute joke compared to using magic

[round lintel]

and max hit 19

is even worst than armoured krakens

[tender harness]

Because shut up and pay $14.99

[ashen yarrow]

they tried to give it high magic defence so mage cannot abuse the flat armor but the 2 best mage weapons just ignore mage defence

[meager flame]

its actually kind of terrible game design because if you just look at the stats at a glance

you probably just say

hey lets get a crossbow or whatever

lmao they're actively trying to trick people

[ashen yarrow]

at least heavy ballista with dragon javelins is almost as good as player on rune cannon

[tender harness]

Mfw cannons are pitched as the most exciting aspect of sailing and turn into a 5 tick weapon shit show

[meager flame]

i think the speed change was just someone trying to galaxy brain an idea to save ammo

im just pissed that cannons aren't allowed to be cannons

[tender harness]

They and I say this as politely as possible. Have no bloody idea what they want with sailing combat, and its gone from already bad to it just isnt even worth the time

[minor whale]

Now it's 7 tick!

[round lintel]

so, wiki now says cannon from krakens is 1/1k

is still stupidly rare

[tacit wharf]

is it

i dont think thats too unreasonable

[round lintel]

the amount of time it takes to kill 1k krakens you go by 10k salvages

and you'll use like 600-800 repair kits

which to get resources and make them will probably even out the amount of time 15 salavges is

if you go on rate

[tacit wharf]

im just saying, u wanted another source, they gave it to you

now yr (not specialy u) are complaining even thats too rare

[round lintel]

the problem was never the source but the rarity of it

[tender harness]

Does it genuinely matter right now anyways? Nothing in this game necessitates a dragon cannon

[tacit wharf]

i enjoy pew pewin on great whites atm

with mine

[round lintel]

Yeah it makes a big time to kill diference on sharks

when i also need their hooks

and vampyre krakens

i need at least 2 bottled storms

:/

[ashen yarrow]

even without max mage you can get around 50-60 kills/h at veiled kraken

[sharp cave]

when is this coming? any particular reason this change was too difficult to include with yesterdays update?

salvors paint still a 1/24k at martial only for some reason? what are the devs doing with their time? like seriously?

[tacit wharf]

dont want to spend the time to get it, then dont

nothing is forcing you to get it

[sharp cave]

ah i guess this one has to be dogshit for no particular reason

[round lintel]

oh btw did you know the telegrab to loot sometimes splashes?

[tacit wharf]

i was surprised when i learned dark lure does too

[wet smelt]

i think it failed? people dont like the idea of change

[ashen yarrow]

i guess their bodies still share same magic stats even when dead

implings have magic levels based on tier so you can splash on them

[chrome lantern]

The gap is really that massive between rune and dragon? That’s disgusting

[chrome lantern]

Tbh if we look at real like it’s unrealistic for the captain to actually be an expert at the act of firing weapons (even when they understand the process/procedures and theory) due to proficiency at the operations and physical experience, and the captain’s role and judgment comes down to their weapon employment and tactics. I super agree with this, if a deckhand has 4 privateering they should have full cannon capabilities.

[chrome lantern]

Flat armor not applying to magic is such an inane possibility that I never even considered it could possibly work that way

[chrome lantern]

The biggest failure with paints was not learning from jars and allowing paints to be tradeable

[hasty shard]

how in the FUCK do they say this when it was the reason veiled krakens were fucking made 😭

jfc

[odd basalt]

ripp, my cannon crewmates got nerfed, since it nolonger scales with sailing lvl :c i get less damage cuz i am maxed

they are missing noticeably more and hitting lower aswell

[fringe rivet]

I think the logic is you'd do bounty tasks to gain exp, and the dragon drops would be a nice bonus.

Alas, salvaging is more profitable and xp wise compared to bounties.

[odd basalt]

i not there for sailing xp :c am there for kills/loot

[fringe rivet]

but why? The only loot that's worthwhile is the bottled storm

[meager flame]

i think we're just seeing an insane situation unfold

[fringe rivet]

otherwise you're just killing sailing monsters for more sailing related content

[meager flame]

many players want sailing progression to be a thing and to participate

and lol

[fringe rivet]

I guess technically ray barbs feed into fishing?

[meager flame]

the devs are trying super hard to kind of make it something you shouldn't really be trying to participate in

like you see tons of people want to go grind for dragon sheets or barrels or hooks or whatever and come back complaining that it just sucks

[odd basalt]

ikr, i like that you can have 2 cannons on one side, the accumulator and even the fire at will mode

[meager flame]

and they just wont budge 😭 lmao

[odd basalt]

but the hard accuracy nerf ruins it

hitting alot of 0s at 99 sailing sucks

[fringe rivet]

I think they're dead set on the EXP rates of Trials

and because players whined to hard about salvaging EXP rates... everything in-between now will never be worth it

[odd basalt]

good thing i am already 99 ^^

pre nerf salvage xp was awesome

[fringe rivet]

you know, the worst thing that can happen?

Sailing goes the way of Fossil Island

where the people involved will eventually drop it or leave

and it never gets finished

(talking about Rare Fossils)

[odd basalt]

well, sailing is a full skill with a cape, what do rare fossils even give?

[fringe rivet]

like imagine if Sailing never gets finished cuz the people who were enthusiastic making it get burnt out or quit?

half the ocean is still missing

[odd basalt]

why would i bother to get rare fossils?

[fringe rivet]

rare fossils were supposed to be traded in for a boss fight

[odd basalt]

a boss fight more rewarding than other bosses in the game i can fight without having to gather the rare fossils?

[fringe rivet]

?

[meager flame]

i think that it wont be forgotten about like that

its a skill not fossil island

[fringe rivet]

It was forgotten because the dev responsible for it moved onto other things

[meager flame]

i do think we're going through some weird process though where jagex at least seems to be very against change

[odd basalt]

yeah, fossil island is straight up pointless if you look at what else you can do, unless you are a completionist

[meager flame]

but the pressure isn't going to stop

they'll eventually get pushed into making things better

they're just so resistant to changing it atm for some reason

[inner pelican]

we're gonna be discoursing about sailing for over a year at this rate lol

just wanna see the book mostly closed

[meager flame]

at this rate

sailing is going to be where it should've been in 2027 in 2032

[odd basalt]

i want to be discoursing about dungeoneering already :c

[meager flame]

but i dont think they'll hold strong that long

[odd basalt]

what i mean is that fossil island doesn't offer any major benefit that i can't get much more easily (or lazily) from other bosses, don't think i have even found any fossils yet

[fringe rivet]

ok?

[meager flame]

i dont even really know what to think though sailing combat is just so unimpressive maybe they just

shouldn't do sailing combat

and stick to unlocking islands and skilling

[fringe rivet]

I think they couldn't commit to the idea of cannons being the only way to damage these critters

they wanted to appeal to everyone

[meager flame]

i dont even think people would be that mad at it

like if they had just never let us attack at all from the ship and the cannons did the damage

it would've been fine

they're just dancing around the part where shooting things with your cannons gameplay wise

[fringe rivet]

same way if salvaging exp rates were 1/10 of what they are now lol

[meager flame]

pretty much sucks atm

its weird too because theres some dissonance in there where they realize it

[fringe rivet]

give the players an inch and they'l go bananaz if you dare take it away

[meager flame]

thats why they allowed regular weapons to do more damage because things were slow

but then they just like

countered themselves and buffed everything's hp too

i really dont know what was going on in there

[fringe rivet]

I don't even understand the obsession with ship combat specifically

like, sailing has bigger issues than killing things on a boat

[meager flame]

i think its because ship combat as an idea is really cool and it could be good so people try to make it be good

[fringe rivet]

and that's what the players go ape on?

[meager flame]

but the gameplay is just failing them

so everyone fixates on it

[oblique mesa]

Yeah that change is weird, all the insane rates for drops from sailing feels like there is some invisible kpi metric that they are measuring sailing engagement with.

Where each activity needs to meet a certain number of hours engaged with

[chrome lantern]

Reminder that Mod Husky explicitly called himself “that gigachad ironman” that farmed tens of thousands of demons for Radiant contracts “because that’s what ironman do” without questioning if maybe the gameplay just sucks

[fringe rivet]

but why? OSRS combat is pretty basic at it's core

you click on things and watch as it dies

that's the core of runescape's combat

it's a point and click medieval game

[meager flame]

its not though we're in 2026 we have exacting timing for movement in game ticks various attack styles speeds special attacks prayers etc

if they thought rolling out fighting cows in a pen in lumby 2 was going to hit they were insane

[oblique mesa]

Very disingenuous as people arent losing their minds over how fun it is to kill goblins in lumby. People enjoy the bossing / raids

[fringe rivet]

the tick obsession can go to hell

but at least at earlier levels the ship combat should be simple

I wouldn't mind if rune and up cannons had a special

[fringe rivet]

most of that only really applies to bosses

[meager flame]

this is one of those know your audience moments

we all killed the cows and grew from there but we exist already and we already moved on

they can't just start from that basic moment and think it'll be fine or good enough now

that element should exist for sure to start someone off learning sailing combat

but they have to progress and give people more too

because most of us are already past that point

[fringe rivet]

idk, I think Jagex trying to balance around appealing to the players is a lost cause

cuz the players sometimes know what they want, but they also sometimes don't

[oblique mesa]

It's not balancing it's designing

[fringe rivet]

like what was the saying"

everyone knows what they don't like, but few know what they want?

like it's easy to say "this is bad", but it's hard to give a meaningful solution?

[meager flame]

yeah but jagex can see what people are really into when it comes to combat in this game

they have a billion examples

and all the analytics to back it up

[tacit wharf]

at the end of the day, some people just find something to always complain about

[meager flame]

so its like

[fringe rivet]

the main reason people have forgotten about Port Tasks is because they don't give any rewards

[meager flame]

if you've trained up a bunch of your players to enjoy combat in this game in certain ways with a little more depth than just standing there watching it happen

when you release new combat for boats

[fringe rivet]

the players will suck up even the most boring content if it had rewards

[meager flame]

you kind of need to give them more depth than just watching it happen

or they'll say this is boring

[fringe rivet]

so....

sailing must be a utility and combat skill?

[meager flame]

if you're going to offer them combat

it needs to meet some kind of quality standard yes

people are going to get really disappointed if you create a whole combat system and it turns out its just boring

[fringe rivet]

okay, what should it be then?

[meager flame]

they didn't have to do combat to begin with

but since they made that decision

they should try to make it engaging and fun for the people who play the game

[fringe rivet]

tell me what your evolution of cannons is?

[meager flame]

i think i talked about it the other day but it should focus on the strengths of sailing and what you can actually do with your boat

so movement is a big deal and its not really present at all

and the ability to target multiple things at once should probably also be utilized because thats something the player can interact with

and its also not exactly used well atm

like you should probably be sailing after or away from the things you're fighting and dodging stuff

[fringe rivet]

how do you dodge a bird?

[meager flame]

and it would probably be fun because honestly

sailing movement was done really well

they should implement that into everything lmao

[fringe rivet]

so...

[meager flame]

and its easy to dodge a bird it could be flying after you pooping stuff into the ocean that hurts your boat

[fringe rivet]

basically the modern day "stand out of the way" style of combat you see with Brutus or FFXIV?

[meager flame]

video games have done stuff like this a billion times

[fringe rivet]

telegraphed combat

[austere mulch]

they shouldve just not done ship combat at least not on release

[fringe rivet]

but keep the monsters cuz it'd be funny

seeing other player's ships sink is awesome

[meager flame]

i think it has a lot of potential for unique encounters but they just met 0% of that potential so far

[fringe rivet]

But if you take away ship combat, then that'd just emphasize how unrewarding sailing is

Port Tasks still suck

so badly

[meager flame]

like sometime in the future

[fringe rivet]

they're fun in of themselves, but 1gp per 1xp is piss poor

[meager flame]

i could see us fighting pirate ships until they can't move and then boarding them to have a traditional fight afterward

and stuff like that as boss fights

but we just dont have any of it

[hasty shard]

atp pirate ship fights will literally just be face tanking too

[austere mulch]

cant say theres anything im less excited about than npc boats ngl

absolutely zero appeal with the state of sailing combat

[meager flame]

they just need to lean on what sailing can really do

like imagine you chased a ship through a barracuda trial type of fight where you were dodging things they tried to sink you with until they crashed on an island or something and you hop off to finish the boss fight

thats the kind of stuff they could do really well

[fringe rivet]

"guh Jagex, why are you making me chase these guys down? bad xp, bad rewards"

"so much downtime just chasing"

[meager flame]

thats why its like a trial there is no downtime if you're actively playing the game doing something

and rewards are as good or bad as they make them

[fringe rivet]

they're set on trials being top tier rates

[meager flame]

theres a difference between bad reward structure and outright boring gameplay

[fringe rivet]

and salvaging has made a pretty high floor

it'll be very hard to make the rewards and rates for new content balanced

[meager flame]

i honestly think trials and salvage make it so they dont have to care about rates

[fringe rivet]

no one does port tasks cuz the rates suck for the amount of effort you put in

[meager flame]

they'll probably psyche themselves out but they already cut off all potential issues by making sailing a free 99 with no sense of accomplishment from the start

so now they can just do whatever its not like they'll be ruining people's previous efforts or anything

99 sailing is as simple as remembering to log in

[fringe rivet]

that's a horrible way to view a skill lol

[meager flame]

i mean that's what it is

[fringe rivet]

that'd just be admitting defeat and saying that sailing should be a mini-game

[meager flame]

you get 99 if you log in and have your crewmates deliver 99 sailing to your character

not even kidding every day before you go to sleep or leave for work just hit log in and let them salvage for 30 minutes

[fringe rivet]

I know

and it sucks

the movement focused skill rewards you the most by not moving

[meager flame]

i dont even think its necessarily bad

i've played plenty of games where the accomplishment is what you do at max level and not the act of leveling up itself

this is probably going to be one of those situations

all it really means is that jagex freed themselves from the exp/hr debates since they're irrelevant

[sharp cave]

the thing i understand the least is how this took so long to implement

4 months? for this?

[meager flame]

i dont think it took 4 months of work

that would be absurd

they likely just worked on other stuff and worked on this for a relatively short period of time

[obsidian venture]

updates are generally spread out like this (which is not ideal)

[slate badger]

So… today’s “fix” to sailing combat was to encourage players to use non-sailing combat, and existing gear they’ve been using everywhere else in the game to kill enemies of the sea. It feels like a bit of a bandaid solution that actually pulls the focus away from sailing, and more towards traditional gear/weapons, simply for the sake of speeding up what felt very tedious and clunky beforehand.

I think having two cannons on a single side of the ship is a step in the right direction (fixing sailing combat with sailing), but I think more needs to be done.

In the past, the approach was “make ship cannons the strongest by making everything else weaker” (12.5% of regular dps), but I think just removing that cap, without cranking the dps up on the cannons to at least equal, if not surpass, traditional weapons, is a bit of a lazy, quick fix done to quiet the mob and buy some time. Cannons being fired strictly by crewmates actually received a dps nerf with the update, due to a bug in how their dps scaled with sailing level.

Possible Solutions
So how do we make ships the primary focus of ship combat?

• Make more high tier privateering crewmates available.
• Increase the number of cannons that can be active at one time (maybe up to 4 per ship)
• Introduce chase items from sailing content that provides buffs to privateering level (similar to how the whirlpool surprise gives a minimum level to deckhandiness, but by increasing the max level of privateering)
• Alternatively, introduce chase items that buff crewmate damage more directly
• Allow manual player intervention to fire cannons at a faster attack speed “manual reloading of cannons”. This means higher effort = faster cannon firing.

This is by no means a comprehensive list, and I would love to hear more similar, community suggestions, but these put the focus of ship combat back on the ship without arbitrarily lowering dps of existing gear, and also without making your raids bis be your required sailing bis.

[frozen lion]

So sail combat is pretty much normal range/magic combat now? What a "funny" update.

[languid ravine]

delete sailing it should never been an idea

[restive siren]

i mean people continue to complain about the sailing changes but fact is they made these changes based on the opinion poll back in january or whatever

we didnt have a formal poll but people still voted for this to happen

[meager flame]

i mean of course after everyone thoroughly deconstructed just about everything about sailing combat they buffed cannonball usage

meaning that the other 9 million things are still bothering them

[gaunt minnow]

So bonds are back down to 13.2m already from about 12.6 before the price increase 🤔

Seems like most people really don’t care about the increase as much as some of you are making out, huh

[granite wyvern]

13.2m > 12.6m tho

[minor whale]

Yes bonds are low when there's 0 content to do since January
When content comes out it'll shoot up

[tender harness]

What do you mean there's plenty of content - reddit

Leagues is great content that adds zero value to the main game coming soon too

[scarlet dawn]

Wiki graph displays 14m'ish

[gaunt minnow]

I’m at 200 bonds but might go in for another hundred before the price spike in leagues

[frozen lion]

Is there even point in using cannons now if I have max gear/max stats? example of dps check on great white shark:

or its for maximising dps possible player dps +2 npcs cannoning?

[gaunt minnow]

Cannons are more DPS right

So why wouldn’t you?

[frozen lion]

player + 2 npc cannons right?

not player + 1 npc cannon

sorry, haven't done cannons and doing dmg with normal weapon was terrible idea

[gaunt minnow]

Yeah you definitely wouldn’t man a cannon anymore

[frozen lion]

haven't done sail combat*

[gaunt minnow]

Cannons have been gimped

But it is extra DPS

[frozen lion]

i think now its better to just 1 side them?

[gaunt minnow]

Yep

[frozen lion]

are these two new spots same as usual cannon/movement/passive spot?

so we can one side cannons and other side 2 kegs?

[thorny fossil]

My solution is to double+ everything's HP and Cannon damage, which is effectively a nerf to traditional damage. Then make cannons cause player damage to increase.

You aren't going to be dealing shit to enemies at sea if you don't cannon it.

[quiet topaz]

They never do. The number show hardly anyone actually cancels their sub. People just like to be loud

[frozen lion]

Well most probably I won't continue to buy membership with real cash anymore which I wasn't opposed to do. But for Jagex it doesn't matter as it simply means I will buy membership through someone's money and his bought bonds, which in the end makes Jagex even more money.

I liked to keep my game money to use for game stuff only though. Will have to spend part of it as my payment for gameplay itself.

[tacit pendant]

Genuinely could double cannon damage and leave hp alone or reduce it. No reason for albatross to have black demon hp and take this long to kill. Tasks are already cheeks

[gaunt minnow]

Yeah agreed this is what I’ve been saying in here for the past week

And everyone just wants to disagree

[tacit pendant]

The fact is you dont even profit gp doing combat sailing tasks all the while its ~30% more xp conpared to one of the most afk things in the game

Why jagex is afraid to let us obliterate day 1 basic ass mobs is beyond me

[gaunt minnow]

My mains an iron and my alt has like 18b so I have no care at all for in game gold

Bond me up baby

[analog crow]

I see 15 flat armor and I think why would I do this? Sounds miserable.

[tacit pendant]

The amount of cannons coming into the game will be 100% unchanged lol

Why would anyone choose to not salvage

[restive storm]

Idk about cancelled memberships but player count is wayyyy down from where it was for sure

[tacit pendant]

I def cancelled my 2nd account. Seems like a trend. But i never multilogged outside of like wildy scouting

[restive storm]

Yeah all my like four accounts that I usually play are unsubbed now, but those have been for a while. Played dmm then never bought more bonds lol

[quiet topaz]

What's wayyyyyyy down? Currently 100k+ players on right now.

[gaunt minnow]

It’s really not bro

I can’t imagine even 0.1% of players have quit

I’d love to see the numbers though

Although they’ll never show us

[quiet topaz]

I don't like paying more as much as the next guy, but the majority of players are not canceling their sub. I forget who it was but someone had a video where they were chatting with ex mod MatK and he said everytime people riot or say they're canceling their subs, the numbers say its a negligible amount.

[gaunt minnow]

Yep he did

And it makes sense

Ultimately the increase is a big amount but in the grand scheme it’s still an incredibly cheap hobby compared to almost anything else

[south void]

Some websites that track mmo-populations have a rough figure showing around a -13.2% decrease in monthly actives so far in March vs. the previous months of January and February of 2026.

Whether they are accurate or not, who knows. The numbers aren't shown to us so it's anyone's guess.

[gaunt minnow]

Well that’s not very reliable at all, not only because it’s not a reliable source but also because we had dmm in Jan/feb

[south void]

obviously why I said the second thing underneath my first statement lol

[restive storm]

It was regularly over 200k like five months ago lol

[ashen yarrow]

yeah it was constantly 200k before bot ban waves

after bot waves 150-170k

[quiet topaz]

Oh you mean the all time high in the games history that everyone knew was temporary?

[restive storm]

Swear when I was looking the other day it was like 120-130 at peak hours lol

[quiet topaz]

It will go back to 200k when leagues comes out

[restive storm]

Not super interested in like short bursts like that more interested in how much retention they have post-leagues and if we’ll get any sort of main game updates before/after it

[quiet topaz]

I mean like... what are you even talking about

You've seen the 26 road map yeah?

The thing that shows all the content coming out this year?

We're getting a whole new raid this year lmao

A whole new area and gm quest

[gaunt minnow]

I love meming and shitting on companies but a lot of you are so naive to how good we have it on RuneScape

That’s not me white knighting jagex it’s just fact

Again, I’ll compare to blizzard, they get new content once every 2 YEARS and 99% of the time it’s literally just a reskinned raids with tweaked mechanics

[restive storm]

The 26 road map? You mean the same one as the 25 roadmap just everything postponed? lol

When I was unsubbing they showed me the roadmap and I was like I can’t believe they thought this was a good idea lmao

[quiet topaz]

What got delayed in 25? The road map was Yama, Varlamore p3, and sailing?

[ashen yarrow]

i dont see anything from 2025 roadmap that is repeating 2026, except summer sweep up but that is every year with polled content

[quiet topaz]

All of that came out in 25

[quiet topaz]

Go on and tell me what from the 25 roadmap was delayed and is on the 26 one

[gaunt minnow]

Wait so you mean to say that sailing, jagex’s biggest ever update, wouldn’t just be done in one update day and completely perfect immediately??? We need to riot!!!!!!!!

[restive storm]

The raid and the gm quest thing we’ve known for like two years they’re coming and somehow we were supposed to be amazed they were on the roadmap? lol

[ashen yarrow]

yes, large pieces of content take long to plan and make

[gaunt minnow]

Mind blowing

[restive storm]

The raid im sure will be good, the quest couldn’t really care less about I hate the vampire line anyway so I assume I can just do it in an hour or two when I come back one day

But not worth like mindlessly hoping they add something else for me in the meantime

I’m not really a pvmer so the raid for me is at most like a week of content lol

[quiet topaz]

They just added brutus for you lil bro

[gaunt minnow]

Unironically, everyone would be happy if they just added fkn multi revs

[quiet topaz]

"I don't really interact with this kind of content, so when they release this kind of content, it doesn't exist to me"

[restive storm]

I mean yeah… correct lol

[quiet topaz]

As a non pvmer, what are you looking for? A new skill??

[restive storm]

Why would I resub for content I don’t wanna do

[quiet topaz]

Hmmmmm

[restive storm]

Wildy updates

[quiet topaz]

Unfortunately everyone just votes no

Didn't they poll a proposed rev cave update and it didn't pass

Or something like that

[restive storm]

No that was their little opinion survey on game jam

[ashen yarrow]

they had rev cave rework in game jam blog, no poll

[gaunt minnow]

No they just mentioned it in game jam, it hasn’t been carried out yet

[quiet topaz]

Ah, still got no traction. Albeit it was a pretty meh idea

[gaunt minnow]

IMO it shouldn’t be polled at all

Because of course it’ll be a no

PvP updates should be treated the same as game integrity updates

That’s how pretty much everywhere else handles them

[quiet topaz]

Pvp is such a polarizing subject in the community

[gaunt minnow]

League doesn’t poll or put feelers out for balance changes

They just action them

[ashen yarrow]

they could do some survey type thing to get feedback from all sides but i dont think they should poll it if it doesnt change whole cave into multi

[quiet topaz]

I mean literally no other game does polls like osrs

[gaunt minnow]

Bit of a strawman but

Well they probably do but just not as publicly available

More of an internal thing yeah

[quiet topaz]

Yeah definitely not to the extent that osrs does

[ashen yarrow]

even people who pk have mixed opinions about multi content so adding people who dont pk into mix just makes it for sure never change

[quiet topaz]

Multi pking is just too exploitable it will be impossible to balance

[gaunt minnow]

Doesn’t need to be balanced it just needs some content

[quiet topaz]

We'll just have clans locking down rev caves again

But I definitely agree there needs to be more to offer

[gaunt minnow]

The last thing we got was unironically slayer cave

Like 5+ years ago

Like what ??

[quiet topaz]

I spent like 3 hours killing chaos fanatic and I didn't see a single person

[smoky jungle]

and that's ran by bots, clans, or both. Any other multi update will have the same effect

[quiet topaz]

Yes anything multi will just be run by clans

[smoky jungle]

Lord knows the Rev caves are also a perfect PVP update

No clans or bots there

[quiet topaz]

There needs to be more risk and reward for the wild. Exp boosts or something for being in the wildy, maybe even increasing over time like the agil course

[smoky jungle]

Make people loot pinatas, that makes fun content in the wilderness. Everyone loves pirates and the deep wildy bosses

[quiet topaz]

Why else would anyone go into the wilderness

[smoky jungle]

That's the million dollar question

PVP wildy is overran with clans. PVP worlds has a high skill entry. That one minigame is filled with bots. PVP just isn't fun

[quiet topaz]

That is the problem. You can't balance people

[restive storm]

This is literally fine though? There’s like 300 worlds it isn’t possible to lock down places entirely cuz you can just hop worlds lol

I’m not a big multi guy, I’d much rather they remove the pj timer from singles

[smoky jungle]

If you're at a legitimate disadvantage in an area for not being part of a PVP clan, that is bad design

[tender harness]

predator prey is stupid and a relic of the early 2000s
you cannot get people now a days to participate in that kind of activity. especially when the bar to be remotely good or semi competent at pvp is too high

[restive storm]

Disagree for sure

That’s literally just multi in this game lol

[smoky jungle]

And where is all the big money content in the wildy?

In multi

[restive storm]

Rev caves? Wildy agil? Both are singles

lol

[quiet topaz]

Singles+

[restive storm]

I’d agree they shouldn’t be in singles, because singles makes it impossible to die in

[smoky jungle]

Then you would only have 3-5 clans in that area. And just fighting each other. Anyone else would be barred by default

[quiet topaz]

Is it stupid? I mean currently the only reason to go to the wild is to make gp (as a main). Irons only go there for d pick or voidwaker

[restive storm]

That seems fine? Other people can band together and fight off the clans, or just hop to a different world lol

[smoky jungle]

Band together? You can't people to work together in Pest Control brother

[gaunt minnow]

So just make a minimum risk or guaranteed loss of X every time you die in the multi area

So you can’t just have infinitely returning rag clans

[restive storm]

Seems like a skill issue idk

Arguing that solo players shouldn’t be disadvantaged in multi combat areas is certainly one view tho lol, idk how popular a take that is

[gaunt minnow]

Yea that’s pepega

Obviously there would be a seperate solo area for irons

The reason jagex removed multi revs was only because of the lock down clans

If they lost guaranteed 500k each time they died they would give up quickly

[smoky jungle]

I'm not saying that someone should be able to 1v2 or more in PVP without being skilled. I'm trying to say locking PvM content to areas like that just for the sole focus of making a single person a loot pinata is stupid

[gaunt minnow]

It’s a bad idea because pvmers don’t want to be ganged on by a team where there’s no counter play. So they would not want to engage with the content

So there has to be a seperate singles area for them

But why is there no multi area for the clans

[quiet topaz]

The big thing is having options. There needs to be multi and singles, not just one or the other.

[smoky jungle]

Because clans don't really care about fair PvP. They just want easy money from killing the welfare PvM'ers Jagex send their way with whatever content they add

[gaunt minnow]

This is complete bs

Ive multi clanned for years and of course we want multi v multi action

We actively go out every Sunday for that

[smoky jungle]

Really? My clan only goes out for multi people pk'ing people they are pretty sure that can't fight back like the wildy alter or the other bosses

I can't tell you the last time I've seen clan war in the wild (no pun intended)

[restive storm]

Sounds like you’re just kinda in a noobie clan

[smoky jungle]

Probs, we aren't a PvP clan either

[restive storm]

P2P Sunday used to be massive, not sure how many clans still go

[gaunt minnow]

You’re not in an organised multi clan

[restive storm]

My singles team would just try to snipe the teams running to their fights and pick people off

Good times

[gaunt minnow]

Rot, fi, vr, not etc all want clean multi action

None of us want to fight pvmers

[restive storm]

Still the best was them thinking they should add a 2 min timer to tele back to the Wildy to finally kill any remaining p2p Sunday action that’s left

[gaunt minnow]

Go out on any Sunday to any multi spot like sperm hill

And you’ll see action

[restive storm]

No pking content for years and the first thing that they think of is “what if we just killed it entirely” lol

[gaunt minnow]

This is the problem

For some reason we have pvmers deciding what multi clans want

Multi clans at least at the top end just want somewhere we can go to where there’ll be other clans, where we don’t have to privately organise it in discord pms

That was multi revs

And since then we’ve had to organise it in private

That’s the bottom line

[restive storm]

Pvmers dictating the direction of the Wildy is very clearly when the activity took a nose dive lol

[smoky jungle]

I would love for you guys to have say in your content. I personally skip anything that is just PvP since that's not what I do. But unfortunately Jagex is very, VERY insistant on making sure PvM'ers are required to care of whatever is in there with bosses, rare drops for things that are good outside of the wild, etc.

[quiet topaz]

If you had to guess, what percentage of the community is pvp focused?

[smoky jungle]

Personally, and I may be wrong, no more than 5%

[gaunt minnow]

That’s fine but pvmers can still go to the singles revs

[tacit wharf]

quite a bit smaller than what it use to be back in 2015

[gaunt minnow]

But there should be a multi area where th clans can go that has slightly improved drops like alchables that incentives the start of the food chain

[smoky jungle]

Isn't that the deep wildy bosses being better than the lower versions in the earlier wild? Or is it only improved on uniques

[gaunt minnow]

Similar yeah

They have a bunch of problems though but are still probably the most active clanning spot

[smoky jungle]

So RS3 kinda does that if I'm remembering right? You get better drops if you turn on PvP mode in the wildy

But no one does and the content there is dead anyways minus the skilling parts

[gaunt minnow]

Unsure

[restive storm]

The problem with those is just the escape caves. If it weren’t for those people might pk there more often, but the Wildy bosses with the caves absolutely suck

I’d rather just not play the game then deal with getting ragged by typeless damage every hop

[smoky jungle]

The escape caves are ass lol. I also don't go there because it's just not worth the effort

I'd much rather take the lower drop rate and tele whenever my CCTV sees someone and consistantly live than worry about the caves and maybe running into a clan outside of said caves

[gaunt minnow]

Vettion is not bad

But the other 2 are dead content

Well some people like Callisto for efficien elite clues

[smoky jungle]

Callisto pet is also the best out of them

[gaunt minnow]

I like the spider but I don’t have any spider pets yet

[south void]

I just don't go into wilderness. Fixes 100% of the problems I have with pkers.

I imagine it doesn't even exist.

[smoky jungle]

This is the right opinion

[gaunt minnow]

What about wildy clues?

IMO that should be removed

[south void]

I drop any clues that I don't want to do, including wilderness clue steps

[smoky jungle]

Based

[restive storm]

They’ve been maybe the most obnoxious thing ever added to the game since release, and somehow have gone untouched despite literally everyone hating them

[south void]

You can drop any clue with clue steps you dislike, and just get right back into pvm/skilling you like doing for another clue

If I drop 100 clues before completing 1, it would still be worth it not to do those steps I dislike

[gaunt minnow]

Depends how you value clues

I want that bloodhound

[smoky jungle]

Man maximizes his fun value from clues

I respect that

[ashen yarrow]

I know im not getting anything useful from clues anymore but i still do them

[still sundial]

I kind of like Wilderness clues existing. makes Wildy feel more like part of the world.

[ashen yarrow]

With the clue boxes you can juggle easily to complete clues even if couple of them have steps you want to avoid

[gaunt minnow]

Contrarily i think they feel out of place because i need to degear every time to do clue content

It genuinely hurts me every time I get a wildy clue and I actually like the wildy and wildy content

[still sundial]

they're doubly annoying for me as UIM, but I still kinda want them to stay

[tacit wharf]

maybe gear yrself so u dont have to, instead if doing clues in max

[gaunt minnow]

I don’t do clues in max

But I need my clue scroll book when doing them

And that has 100m+ of teleports in it

And I’m not losing that lol

[tacit wharf]

i have 4 items i have to bank when doing a wildy clue and those are my 2 capes, rune pouch and clue book

[gaunt minnow]

Yeah i find that annoying

So much so it genuinely hurts when I get a clue step

[tacit wharf]

i mean if thats too annoying, i got bad news for ya about some other things

[gaunt minnow]

Like what

Genuinely can’t think of a single thing as annoying as wildy clue steps

[tacit wharf]

agility pyramid step
east of prif step
kharzari jungle steps

to name just a few clue steps

[oblique mesa]

Huh those aren't the same as having to regear at all

[gaunt minnow]

Karazi jungle 😅🤣 cmon bro

[quiet topaz]

Can't get attacked at any of those though lmao

[gaunt minnow]

You don’t have the tele and shortcut?

I can see how it would be annoying

[tacit wharf]

i do, they are still annoying steps

much more annoying than banking 4 inventory items

[gaunt minnow]

East of prif is 2 clicks

Unironically

Nowhere close to wildy steps

Now agreed about the pyramid one that can go too, but at least I don’t have to bank my gear for it

[ashen yarrow]

even dragon's eye master clue step is nice now since 96 (91 with pie) agility skips whole legends dungeon

[smoky jungle]

I agree. We need the clue compass in main game (this is a joke but it better be back this Leagues, I stg Gagex give it back)

Oh no chat was moving too much and I replied incorrectly lol

[restive storm]

Having to bank like 2-3 items to do a Wildy step, and using that as a reason to hate them is crazy business

[smoky jungle]

I mean you are allowed to hate something for inconveniencing you.

It's petty but allowed

[restive storm]

Ofc, but when I look at people who ask to remove clues from the Wildy, then read takes like “this is why I don’t like them” it’s just hilarious that such a minor thing makes people so angry

[austere mulch]

Been ignoring this one for idk how long. I have a really good 3 step that I saved from forever ago and it’s been a huge convenience add and time save for clues

That’s about the extent I go with juggling though. The idea of having double digit clues on the ground isn’t fun imo

[smoky jungle]

He wants them removed to because it annoys him

I want them removed because I refuse to kill a fellow follower of Zamarok

We are not the same

[jade sentinel]

Sorry for the late reply but I'm going pretty dry at stingrays as well. How dry were you?

[gaunt minnow]

Think it’s a bit of a stretch to say angry. I don’t like them but I don’t hate them enough to not do them

I’ll stilll get that bloodhound don’t you worry brotha

[restive storm]

Not really talking about you in that one - but the people who actually freak out about clues in the wildy generally have that same point of view I think

[smoky jungle]

It's so odd to me that people want them to be removed. I don't know if I have ever been attacked doing a clue in the wildy

Like I'm considering the day I do, I should buy a lottery ticket

[restive storm]

Yeah I don’t understand it at all

[ashen yarrow]

i get attacked more naked than when im wearing elite diary gear

[smoky jungle]

My only complaint about wildy clues are the deep ones, and that's because I just can't tele away making it take longer

[still sundial]

I died quite a few times doing clues there but it's usually cause the teleport spot was camped

[smoky jungle]

See that's probably 90% of the cases. I don't see anyone going to clue spots for that valuable spade

[still sundial]

oh and once cause the dig location was between rogue chests

[ashen yarrow]

i usually train few minutes thieving at rogue chests when i get clue step there

[oblique mesa]

On the flip side, waiting at wildy clues on world 420 is fun. Its like playing the lottery

[smoky jungle]

You know a stoner will accidently take their cash stack on the world 420 thinking "oh this world is litterally me"

cannons feel more impactful

I mean that's literally what cannons do, they cause impacts

[quartz anchor]

sailing Naysayers starting to look smart

[smoky jungle]

Unfortunately true

[restive storm]

Another classic “we screwed up” apology post by the team

[smoky jungle]

I still think it can be great, but definitely needed more time

[smoky jungle]

When I saw "we missed the mark" I got Sea of Thieves PTSD since they say that almost literally every blog

[timber drift]

lmao when are jagex gonna tell reddit to stfu already

[smoky jungle]

I mean numbers don't lie, even if it's from Reddit. The cannon numbers sucked

[timber drift]

brotha u kill like 100 krakens per hour whats the problem

does anyone even log in anymore or just look at the blog and cry

joke shit

[smoky jungle]

I mean when the cannon part of the sailing cotent is barely 10% of the damage, that's pretty bad

[timber drift]

ok mf didnt even play

😭

sorry we made your damage at sea better we'll do better next time

im crine rn . . .

[restive storm]

I’m ngl you’re the first person I’ve heard not say that ydays update wasn’t a disaster lol

[timber drift]

yeah coz i play the game

people were already complaining about the update before it was even live and jagex was already apologizing

can you fathom how absurd that is

[minor whale]

There were a couple of decent changes and a lot of bullshit that was clearly not tested

[timber drift]

veiled kraken having 15 flat is a bit silly thats p much it

[limber creek]

Boat pvp gonna be a shitshow if boats are doing more than they are already lol. dragon cannons hitting 70's and stuff.

[timber drift]

why would you want boat pvp

[minor whale]

Your mainhand weapon should not be the vast majority of damage done to an enemy at sea, if you can't manage that while having cannons feel good and do decent dps and kill things quickly then that's pretty shit

[timber drift]

😭

[limber creek]

that was the only reason i leveled to 99 sailing.

[minor whale]

Also they literally pitched sailing as having boat pvp

[limber creek]

this

[minor whale]

"Why do you want this thing that they said would be part of the skill?"

[timber drift]

nah bro i cant just focus on the good parts of the skill instead of making it more of a shitshow

[minor whale]

If I stick my head in the sand then I too can make anything sound great!

[timber drift]

???

bro just saying shit

[weary stag]

"we changed things but made it feel exactly the same, is that not what you guys wanted!?"

[timber drift]

feels the same how you kill shit twice as fast lmao

proof none of you login

clown community

[weary stag]

Honk

[minor whale]

When using a Shadow or Ayak*
The cannon dps wasn't altered at all lmao

Oh boy, sailing combat is fixed, it's back to what it was like on day 1!

[weary stag]

Then gave the new thing 15 flat armour xD

[smoky jungle]

Can't used ranged weapons tho because coding the difference between crossbow and cannon is hard

[twilit galleon]

are there any updates on cloud servers/south american/asian worlds since January? ive been waiting since August of last year for any updates on it and the only one we got was in January which was literally just "we didnt forget! we didnt do anything yet, but we didnt forget!"

[timber drift]

or you know void pipe or anything that isnt a fuckin rcb with broad bolts

[twilit galleon]

playing with bare minimum 200 ping is near impossible and the only end game content i can do is stuff i already have the muscle memory for

[timber drift]

which i know is the gold standard here

no way better gear does better damage thats insane

i can't afford this jagex pls

too busy 30 min afking large salvage

[gaunt minnow]

Yeah that sounds like hell

[restive storm]

I speak for all of us when I say we do not want/trust jagex to spend the time trying and failing to develop boat pvp

[gaunt minnow]

Tbh Its confusing why jagex have 0 Asian or South American servers

Considering the opportunity there

So many potential new players

[twilit galleon]

Asia is like 1/2 the worlds global population

[gaunt minnow]

Yeah exactly

[twilit galleon]

and China is like half the global gamer populatiob

[gaunt minnow]

It’s a crazy business decision.

[twilit galleon]

just by itself

[restive storm]

Partially I heard a lot of those countries are priced out of playing osrs due to no regional pricing

[twilit galleon]

but theyve released 0 updates on new worlds

[twilit galleon]

That's not an issue because bonds

[smoky jungle]

It's wild to me that there is no regional pricing at this point

[gaunt minnow]

Hear me out, what if they didn’t increase our prices for a year and instead tried to attract new players

[restive storm]

Forget where I saw it but one poor country it was like 10% of your monthly wage would go to membership lol

[gaunt minnow]

🤯

[twilit galleon]

as someone living in SEA, The issue is that the closest servers are in Australia and we get bare minimum 200 ping

[restive storm]

That is absolutely an issue what do you mean lol

[minor whale]

They say in their own blog that cannon dps is unchanged but they were nerfed
If the "fix" to sailing combat was making it identical to release, that's a massive failure lmao

https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/s/BLgFgTAJzI

[tacit wharf]

infrastructure in SA sucks balls, and the china market is very intrusive to the gaming company

[gaunt minnow]

That’s a good point actually

Maybe fuck China just release other Asian severs haha

[smoky jungle]

China is honestly so free since they love games they can play on their phone

[ashen yarrow]

I wouldnt say players on cannon need much of increased dps, crewmembers on cannon could use a little more help if they plan to keep 80-100% player damage on normal weapons

[gaunt minnow]

No offence to the Chinese ofc

[twilit galleon]

The infrastructure isn't the issue either, cloud infrastructure is significantly cheaper in Asia compared to America

and that's the direction that they're trying to go in

The issue is, 90%, that the game is unplayable because the ping is bare minimum 200

1/3 of a tick is insane to expect people to do tob with, or any end game content really

[tacit wharf]

you still have the china intrusive part of the equation

[austere mulch]

Sailing combat should be isolated to a minigame rather than trying to make it a core component of the skill. This eliminates balancing concerns since it’d be more isolated and also keep sailing from become a pseudo-combat skill which nobody, including the dev team, wants

It also shouldn’t have released at launch 🤷🏽‍♂️

[smoky jungle]

Honestly just make sailing similar to a pokemon battle where a minigame takes place when you run into the creature

[twilit galleon]

just put the worlds outside china if thats a big issue

SEA has a huge playerbase available

so does south america

[minor whale]

It's also kinda shit that sailing combat gives such a pittance of sailing XP

Far less afk than salvage, generally useless drops outside of some uniques (which salvaging also has), far more expensive to do per hour, and has a whole system in place where travelling around is by far the "best" XP to do combat for but is extremely unrewarding.

Why is afk click once every 30 minutes more XP/hr than active ship combat 😭

[strong aspen]

Anyone know when we are getting fishing spots for trawling spots as the 90%+ vote yes in December?

[tacit wharf]

guessing probably part of a skilling update

unless they mentioned something on reddit

[ashen yarrow]

you could technically get decent xp/h (100-150k xp/h) doing combat bounties. Issue is that you will need to find other creatures to hunt after like 6-16 bounties to refresh the board and maybe get the best ones again

[sharp cave]

Doesn't the flat armour thing not applying to mage seem really stupid?

[minor whale]

Yes

Very much so

[sharp cave]

We have a 2 hit weapon where negative flat armour for magic would make sense too with twinflame

[remote ruin]

15 flat armor on the veiled kraken is a bit excessive imo

[sharp cave]

It isnt just the amount, its the concept that led mage to be ultra bis there

Idk if they got lost in the sauce and thought that flat "armour" doesn't make sense since "armour" is usually associated with metal gear

Honestly they could even go as far as splitting it up for each combat style and attack style

Might get a bis messy to keep track of though

But something in chainmail would make sense to have a weakness to dart, light and stab

More dials to turn rather than just accuracy

[grizzled imp]

I want to be happy that jagex is looking to make changes to make cannons more impactful but i'm skeptical they'll get it right, especially with that "this will affect the game more broadly" statement. How? How are ship cannons going to affect the wider game?

[sharp cave]

This way they could make say... a new crush weapon work well in some places without soley relying oj accuracy

[austere mulch]

Scrap ship combat as a whole and isolate it to a minigame. Then they can do whatever they want with cannons and not worry about the wider game or player gear balancing

Ez enough

[grizzled imp]

i disagree with that take

[austere mulch]

At the very least, that’s better than what we have

[grizzled imp]

again, disagree
because then you lose out on a lot of sources for unique, low-stakes items that fill out the world

[austere mulch]

By having combat be a core part of the sailing skill, you inevitably fall into needing to accept the fact that it then becomes a psuedo combat skill which the mods explicitly said they don’t want to do in the summit blog

[limber creek]

ship combat was regulated to just afk'ing in a safespot previous to this.
More than likely is still meta lol

[sharp cave]

It should have just scaled off range level from the start

[austere mulch]

You can move those items elsewhere or to the ‘minigame’ as a reward and it’s still better than what we have currently

[austere mulch]

It shouldn’t have shipped at launch* it clearly wasn’t ready and still isn’t

[grizzled imp]

i personally don't want to see everything turn into a minigame
and if we give up and turn ship combat into a minigame, that incentivizes it never evolving past what it is now

[sharp cave]

The simplest solution imo, would be to give birds like a +30 to flat armour

In at least vs cannons

But we cant do that with the binary system rn

Its stupid to shoot a bird out of the sky with a cannon and it makes sense ti shoot them with a bow insead

This way, the birds dont get a billion hp more than jad to not be one shot by ccannons

And we can scale the rest of the water borne enemies up as normal

[austere mulch]

The issue stems from sailing not being a combat skill and therefore needing to have traditional combat skills and items be an impactful integration for the combat, and with that comes balancing concerns between combat skills (which you’re using for combat) and deciding where on the spectrum of being a combat skill and not being a combat skill you want sailing to fall

[grizzled imp]

honestly I'd be fine with making cannons just do double the damage they currently do and slap on some flat armor to all the higher level enemies so that the raw damage numbers make cannons the better choice against them
you know, assuming they make magic actually affected by flat armor

[sharp cave]

I think normal weapons doing normal damage is fine, and i think you should be able shoot stuff from the shore too

[austere mulch]

But if you can isolate that until you find a system that works, before moving it to the wider game, that’s a better approach

Rather than falling into months -> years of design debt

[sharp cave]

Confining ship combat to a certain area as a minigame is a bad idea

They just need to pull their heads out of thier asses, give us break and not make it feel awful

[austere mulch]

Making sailing a combat skill is also a bad idea and that’s what is happening in real time

It’s like, mining and rc aren’t combat skills but have a combat-like encounter in Zalcano

[sharp cave]

Its absolutely possible to do if they ditch all these stupid ideas they are trying to constrain it to

[slate badger]

https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1484056013589188648

I thought about how to make ship combat great. Let me know what you think

[austere mulch]

How do you create a system where

1. Sailing is not effectively a combat skill and
2. Using your actual combat skills to engage in combat is not invalidated or nerfed, which ties into 1

[grizzled imp]

I honestly don't know why sailing being a combat skill is even a bad thing if it's confined to sailing combat

[austere mulch]

Because that’s explicitly what they said they don’t want it to be

If it’s a combat skill, it naturally would affect your combat level

It’s a whole can of worms

It should’ve just been given sailing bosses, zalcano/tempoross equivalents, rather than trying to make it a game wide system

[slate badger]

peep my post beast, I've got you

[austere mulch]

Because one way or another, you either make it something it’s not intended to be or it’s stuck in an awkward middle ground of slop (as current)

[limber creek]

slayer doesn't affect my combat level.