game-update

[ionic grotto]

And any ring upgrade has to be so stupidly broken that it's actually worth using over a Lightbearer lol

[round lintel]

These are the stats of my idea after adding dt2 rings

[waxen summit]

14 strength bonus is pretty large

[round lintel]

Ultor is 12

[waxen summit]

at least a +2 prayer lmao

[round lintel]

thats after adding ultor to it

[round lintel]

Base

[ionic grotto]

And unironically you'd still use a Lightbearer, but what does a combination ring really accomplish? It's not like people bring ring switches to places very often.

Boot merge made sense because it cut down on switches and cleaned up your inventory a bit.

[vivid iris]

Regarding the discussion around crush megarare and how it fits in with the current crush scythe meta:

Note that the DPS ceiling for slash Scythe (Oathplate top/bottom + Torva helm) on ideal targets is around 15 off task.

Likewise, the DPS ceiling for crush Scythe with Inquisitor's on ideal targets (e.g. Cerberus, Araxxor) is lower, ranging between around 12-14 DPS.

This leaves a decent amount of room for a crush megarare to beat Scythe in crush weak content without resulting in excessive powercreep to the DPS ceiling (i.e. a weapon that would result in something like 18 DPS on ideal targets)

[waxen summit]

combine lightbearer to the ring idea?

[ionic grotto]

If you do that you can never make a worthwhile ring ever again

[round lintel]

too op i think

[ionic grotto]

LB + all the DPS rings? Lol

[waxen summit]

thats fair

[ionic grotto]

That's like the end all be all of rings for the life of the game

[waxen summit]

there are enough rings already though

[ionic grotto]

Exactly

The only rings we need

Are the last of the four Zenyte upgrades (Suffering), and the Wildy rings (Tyrannical, Treasonous, Gods).

We're gonna be at 3/4 Zenyte upgrades after Blood Moon Rises so all that is left is Suffering

[zenith pike]

brimstone ring 2?

[ionic grotto]

And then they can do DT2-esque upgrades to the Wildy rings down the road

We'll get the Bellator version of crush and stab

And then a giga-amped Prayer ring as an upgrade to RotG.

[waxen summit]

what niche could a new mega fulfill? should it do something like the bowfa/crystal armor where the new gear specifically improves a weapon?

would this just make a weapon useless without its associated gear?

[ionic grotto]

Either way you guys don't need to worry about raids 4 uniques anymore I already got them all covered and passed all my ideas to Jagex

Mega Rare: Inspired by the Sunlight spear, 5 tick 2 handed, damage scales to your Prayer bonus, stab is the primary attack style but it can use crush or slash too just like any spear.

Armour set: Elemental Mage robes, basically Virtus but for elemental spells, will help close the gap between elemental spells/proper spellcasting and powered staves

Fractured Staff of Armadyl: New staff that buffs elemental spells, meant to be paired with the new robes, an alternative to the Harm so that the Harm isn't the ONLY viable option for powerful elemental spells. Think like a Twinflame staff on crack.

New Ranged Offhand: BiS over the Buckler, additional passive effect that enhances enchanted bolt procs, maybe like a 1-2.5% higher proc chance across the board.

New potion ingredients: Items to make Super Prayer potions and Overloads

[waxen summit]

a prayer bonus wep could be intersting, though i only see myself using it when slaying lol

[ionic grotto]

It entirely depends on how strong it is. If the bitch can hit 70s-80s like a Tbow/Shadow with a ridiculously high Prayer bonus, that will work its way into modern metas.

[waxen summit]

true

[ionic grotto]

It would likely replace Fang for a lot of things

Since Fang is the de facto BiS stab atm

[waxen summit]

and fang isnt a mega so thats fine

[ionic grotto]

Exactly

It's no different than the Shadow replacing the Sang

[round lintel]

I like the range off hand thing only

[ionic grotto]

Or the Fang replacing the Rapier

[vivid iris]

should have never had Fang come from TOA and should have been the raids 4 mega, and wouldnt have needed to be nerfed 4 times

but alas

[ionic grotto]

Stab Mega Rare is basically the only thing they can do that won't compete with/step on an existing Mega Rare.

[waxen summit]

i do like the idea of upgrading though, armadyle armor still holds value cause it improves masori

[ionic grotto]

Crush Mega Rare will come one day, but not yet, still too early to start releasing Mega Rares to compete with Scythe.

[waxen summit]

and bandos is basically iconic, but it also builds torva

[ionic grotto]

UpgradeScape works to a point but you can't keep it going forever.

Avernic treads are like the most extreme example and they're really pushing it imo

You have to do clues, a shit minigame, Slayer, a Slayer boss to upgrade those boots, and then Doom to get the final version of the boots that you fill with all your other ones.

[waxen summit]

no you cant, but power creep comes from time/updates

it is inevitable

[ionic grotto]

Which I'm fine with Avernic treads don't misunderstand

But imagine in 3-4 years they release ANOTHER boot slot that combines treads with Echo boots Devout boots and Aranea boots

[burnt talon]

I don’t think it being crush or stab or prayer matters nearly as much as the effect it has frankly

[ionic grotto]

At that point it's getting ridiculous lol

[ionic grotto]

I was quite clear with my proposed passive effect

[waxen summit]

yea its a boot slot, having a BIS combat, BiS tank, BiS Prayer is fine

[deft barn]

Forcing wildy content wouldnt go down well imo

[ionic grotto]

Damage scaling based on your Prayer bonus

[waxen summit]

combining all is crazy

[ionic grotto]

A 2h 5 tick spear that has a passive effect where it's damage increases the higher your Prayer bonus is, that's pretty self-explanatory imo, imagine you're wearing full Sunfire and hitting like 80s in max or close to max Prayer gear lol

Maybe not that extreme but you get the idea

80s in raids 4 or on like a Slayer task would be fine

[vivid iris]

Possible alternative to elemental robes: let's call them "Healer Robes"

Under the assumption that this raid soft requires a healer/tank role. These are highly defensive robes with magical flat armor, and give increased HP regeneration and lower cooldowns for venges and increased power to heal/cure other spells

[ionic grotto]

As long as you're getting contribution for doing all that shit it could work

Cuz the problem right now is if you do anything like this you're basically an alt and you're throwing your own contribution to help others

So the raid would need to be designed specifically with this role in mind, but ye it could work

[vivid iris]

agreed. We need the raid to require actual roles, unlike TOA where you're encouraged to grief your team and everyone does solo strats because DPS good

[waxen summit]

honestly if they made a healing set that would be cool since we literally dont have much support items

[ionic grotto]

Yeah I like that aspect about ToB that there's at least some semblance of different roles. I'm always mdps with my team for example.

I can rdps in a pinch, but I don't freeze 😆

[vivid iris]

lunars need a buff to compete with thralls and death charge too

[waxen summit]

but the general consensus is dps is king

[vivid iris]

i do kind of like that item someone proposed about an unlimited permanent spellbook swap too

[ionic grotto]

I would like to see a new spell unlock

[vivid iris]

the CMers would rejoice surely

[ionic grotto]

I have an image

1 sec

A new elemental spell

[vivid iris]

would be nice to get away from at least 1 of the dailyscape restrictions

[zenith pike]

cape swaps mattered when harm was great for ice demon

[ionic grotto]

Back in RS2 when Kuradal first came out, she would occasionally cast this spell to kill abyssal demons. It was like a combination of all the surge spells.

Make it like 97 or 98 Magic, give it an unlock scroll from TFA, ezpz

If they wanna go full send on elemental spells this is how you do it imo

[waxen summit]

"F*ck it, hit em with the kithen sink too"

kitchen*

[vivid iris]

only problem i see with both these robes is they'd probably be useless everywhere except the raid they come from, at least at first

[ionic grotto]

Throw that spell scroll in with my 6 other proposed uniques and the 2 potions and you've got a raids-worthy lineup of rewards. Ez

[ionic grotto]

Yeah elemental robes make more sense especially if they wanna push elemental weaknesses with this raid. If they do my robes, my staff, and my spell unlock, then yeah elemental spells will go crazy.

[waxen summit]

make it use runes that only drop from the raid

[ionic grotto]

Truee

[waxen summit]

balance runes as the catalyst

[ionic grotto]

Good idea actually cuz back in RS2 they released Armadyl runes which were specifically for casting Storm of Armadyl with the Armadyl battlestaff.

So if they go with all of my reward ideas this would be similar.

[waxen summit]

this spell couldnt work with the duo giants boss staff tho

[dire mango]

We want roles, but jagex shoehorning in roles is not something i trust they will get right. Tob was not designed around roles, yet they emerged naturally due to the boss design.

Cramming a standard mmo role like "healer" into osrs because it's familiar is asking for bad design imo.

[waxen summit]

just sayin

[ionic grotto]

True but it would work with my proposed staff

The Fractured Staff of Armadyl

I've had this theory since they revealed the raid

It's called The Fractured Archive

Which sounds way too similar to the Mage staff from RS3 called the Fractured Staff of Armadyl

Which is based on the Elder Artefact, the actual Staff of Armadyl

[waxen summit]

giving more support options would be nice though, not a specified healer, but there are very little support items in game

[ionic grotto]

So it makes sense Guthix might've locked this weapon away

[vivid iris]

good point

[ionic grotto]

I disagree that it wasn't designed for roles, Nylo room specifically very much was.

Besides Nylo room you're mostly right though

It's the closest thing we have to dedicated roles

That and freezers at Maiden ig

[waxen summit]

was the staff of arma every fragmented in lore? last i remember it was just big chillin in that temple

simply nit picking lore

[ionic grotto]

It can be, lore from RS3 and OSRS doesn't have to 1:1 match. If they wanna say Guthix obtained a fractured version and locked it away in his archive they easily could with a few tweaks.

Lucien has the original atm

As of WGS

[waxen summit]

couldnt guthix have his own item though?

[ionic grotto]

And since this quest is going to require WGS it would be on theme to include the fractured staff as a unique from the raid

[waxen summit]

we have very little guthix items

[ionic grotto]

True but the raid isn't marketed as a Guthix item raid, it's going to have a variety of powerful artefacts representing different Gods etc.

Different bosses representing different Gods as well, like that new Justiciar boss

[waxen summit]

makes sense

[ionic grotto]

In the original blog they said you'll face off against powerful Guthixian guardians and agents of other Gods, implying all of the Gods sent somebody to try to track down Guthix's archive and obtain the powerful items, so the Saradomin Justiciar Zeke or whatever his name is, is just one such example of an agent of another God.

It would not surprise me if we have like a Dragonkin boss or a Mahjarrat boss in the raid as well.

They could do Bilrach as one of the raid bosses since it's highly unlikely we ever see anything to do with Daemonheim/Dungeoneering in OSRS.

[waxen summit]

GWD the raid basically

[ionic grotto]

Yes

Maybe Angel of Death Nex will be the Zaros boss

This raid is loosely-based on the quest from RS3 called The World Wakes but in the quest you're chased around by other bosses all trying to reach Guthix's resting place.

If you don't side with the Zarosians you get chased around by Nex etc lol

[waxen summit]

lol

[ionic grotto]

So maybe a new version of Nex could be one of the bosses

[waxen summit]

i stopped playing after EoC so i dont know these things

its Nex's brother! Xen!

[ionic grotto]

I played for like a year after EoC before switching to OSRS because I didn't like EoC.

[round lintel]

"The world wakes" harder mode

[ionic grotto]

Lmao yep

[waxen summit]

same

just gonna throw this out there, would be cool to see skotizo and zalcano meet up and start beefin

[vivid iris]

not another demon boss 💀

[ionic grotto]

Demons are boring time to level up our boss design

Mahjarrat boss and/or Dragonkin boss.

[waxen summit]

didnt say you fight em, maybe their fight causes things to change around them

[ionic grotto]

I've been asking for both for literally a decade

It's time Jagex

[waxen summit]

mahjarrat are basically demi gods tho

dragonkin sure

[ionic grotto]

So is Nex

So are Dragonkins lol

[waxen summit]

i though nex was a general in zaros's army, and Dragonkin were created by jas to protect the stone

[ionic grotto]

Hell so is the player character canonically if you wanna refer to RS3

Nex was created by Zaros directly just like how Mah created the Mahjarrat and Jas created the Dragonkin.

Nex's examine text is "even the Gods fear her."

Nex is considered a borderline demigod by lore

[waxen summit]

saradomin,guthix,bandos,arma,seren,zaros all come from outside geilinor, same with the mahjarrat

[ionic grotto]

So do the nihil, the race Nex is based on.

Nex is a special nihil who is way stronger than the rest of her kind though

[waxen summit]

idk if we count RS3 lore in osrs

but i kinda see where you going

[ionic grotto]

Unless it conflicts with OSRS it's valid

[waxen summit]

i mean in RS3 isnt guthix dead?

[ionic grotto]

After completion of The World Wakes yes

That's the only thing the OSRS team basically said they'd never do

They'd never kill Guthix and advance us to the 6th Age etc.

[waxen summit]

yea cause if guthix dies then the edicts of guthix goes away and its God Wars 2

[ionic grotto]

Which is why we're getting a repeatable raid that's loosely-based on The World Wakes but doesn't end with Guthix dying, just us stealing some of his shit lol

[waxen summit]

we would need the stone of jas or the horn to kill a mahjarrat imo

[ionic grotto]

Not necessarily

It depends on the Mahjarrat

[waxen summit]

i would say Nex is indeed strong, same with the dragonkin, but i think in a 1v1 the mahjarrat solos

[ionic grotto]

Nex is comparable to Azzanadra in strength and we can kill Nex

[waxen summit]

azzanadra is also chill

[ionic grotto]

We technically kind of fight one of the weaker Mahjarrat

Jhallan

[waxen summit]

compared to most other mahjarrat

[ionic grotto]

During the quest to unlock Muspah

He's not that strong he's combat 491

[waxen summit]

hes also confused and stuck in the muspah form isnt he?

[meager flame]

nah dragonkin are a lot stronger

[ionic grotto]

Yeah he's like one of the weakest Mahjarrat too lol

[meager flame]

you should watch how ritual of the mahjarrat ends

[ionic grotto]

Yeah lol even with 2 Elder Artefacts Lucien gets fucking schmoked

[meager flame]

basically the dragonkin fly in and absolutely curb stomp lucien like hes a baby

lol its actually stupid tbh

[waxen summit]

in osrs there is only like 5 dragonkin left

[meager flame]

but its funny

[waxen summit]

or w.e their race name is. whatever the dude that got smoked by Galvek is called

[ionic grotto]

Final boss being one of the Dragonkin enraged by the usage of the Stone of Jas would go so hard though

Can you imagine

Also it'd be kinda crazy in a way if Dragonbane weapons were the meta for the final boss of a raid lol

[ionic grotto]

Yeah that's a Dragonkin

The fact Galvek one shot him and we beat Galvek kinda proves we could probably kill one imo

Robert the Strong did

And he was just a really OP human

[meager flame]

thats how the next quest is going to go

[ionic grotto]

Yep

[meager flame]

we get random flashbacks to bob for no reason

gonna time travel to get him back somehow

and the dragonkin in ds2 recognizes you even though you've never met

[waxen summit]

nah wasnt galvek and him like soul bound or something?

[meager flame]

nah idr the exact line but basically

he implies you've met before somewhere a lot of people have talked about it

[waxen summit]

thought he was talking to Bob

[meager flame]

nope hes talking to the player

[waxen summit]

hmm

[meager flame]

it also explains how when you do wgs

for no reason

you start seeing bob flashbacks if you've done ds2

for actually no reason

[ionic grotto]

I believe the flashbacks in WGS have to do with the player interacting with the Stone of Jas

And there's technically a dual-quest post credit scene that you only see after completing both

[waxen summit]

idk i like the idea of mahjarrat being basically demi gods in terms of power, dragonkin being intellectually and technologically superior (hence why they make these labs cand create these monsters that are just physically strong)

[ionic grotto]

Whichever you do after

[meager flame]

yeah but that wasn't in the original

[ionic grotto]

Is when the cutscene plays

[meager flame]

so im pretty sure they're setting up the return of bob somehow

[waxen summit]

bob could be a immortal, hes already came back once

[ionic grotto]

True

[meager flame]

i guess it makes sense im sure after ds2

[waxen summit]

but idk how that works with his wife

[meager flame]

they were like

that was kind of dumb we probably shouldn't have done that lol

because the death is kinda lame

[waxen summit]

jagex love killing old characters

wise old man is next

wise young man is new BFF

[meager flame]

idr what year it was but i bet they were just watching game of thrones or whatever where important characters die for no reason and it was like

a trend at the time

which it can be cool when you dont expect it

but it got silly where it was just happening in all media for a few years constantly lol

[ember token]

no I think they Ed planned far enough ahead here on this

[ionic grotto]

Lore wise the Mahjarrat are basically that but they vary in strength. We already fight several during quests and none of them have a higher combat level than Nex, Nex is consistently regarded as the strongest warrior of Zaros, she's debatably considered a demigod by other gods.

[ember token]

and it actually kinda explains why initially Bob’s death was so lame

[waxen summit]

no one should take inspiration from GoT final season

[meager flame]

oh its not even just the final season like if you've read the books which are a lot better

[ember token]

Bob needed to die for whatever they have planned so they killed him without actually thinking much about how he died

[meager flame]

it kind of just happens to everyone lol

[waxen summit]

now heres a question, is combat level lore related? or simply a game mechanic for us to interact with?

[ionic grotto]

Yes

[waxen summit]

like if we fought zammy would he be combat level 30000?

[meager flame]

they probably wont ever let us in osrs

[ionic grotto]

We could it just couldn't be on Gielinor

[waxen summit]

would lucian holding the staff of arma make his combat level stupid?

[meager flame]

because honestly i dont even think you could execute on that scenario and have it make sense

[waxen summit]

these are hypotheticals

[ionic grotto]

We're allowed to enter other realms like Yu'biusk etc or whatever it's called

[ionic grotto]

Potentially, but also the ritual of rejuvenation itself could power them up to higher levels.

[meager flame]

since if you ever tried to actually let zamorak be as powerful as he actually is the only possible result is you just dying on the spot

so it would just be weird

[ember token]

you can see lucien's combat level with the staff of arma

it's 1482

[ionic grotto]

Yeah and it's the highest level any Mahjarrat is shown being

He's also the only one higher level than Nex which kinda proves my point about just how strong Nex is relative to the Mahjarrat lol

The only one stronger is a Mahjarrat wielding the Staff of Armadyl that we've seen so far anyways

[waxen summit]

i mean nex was feared by all the other gods/generals so they all banded togeather to lock her up

[ember token]

I would not take combat levels as a lore thing

[ionic grotto]

It's still a reasonable indicator of "how strong is this thing"

[waxen summit]

potentially but i mean if we saw Jas for whatever reason what combat level would you even apply to her?

[ember token]

yeah I just wouldn't take it like, X character has a higher combat level than Y character, which means they're stronger

[waxen summit]

i think combat level is just a game mechanic for us players to interact with

[ember token]

sol has a combat level of 1563, but I don't think he's stronger than lucien, or nex, or lowerniel drakan

[meager flame]

its basically just dbz power scaling

[ember token]

lowerniel has a combat level of like 900 something

[meager flame]

they cant let us fight anything that strong

[ionic grotto]

Either way I hope Kerapac is one of the raid bosses

Dragonkin boss would be so sick

[waxen summit]

true

we like a good dragon boss there arent enough of em

[ionic grotto]

Particularly ones you can fight in a group setting

[waxen summit]

there are a lot of demons tho

[ionic grotto]

Vorkath is a dragon but a solo fight

[waxen summit]

isnt olm "technically" a dragon

[ionic grotto]

Zulrah is canonically dragon-adjacent and is a solo fight

True Olm is one yes

[waxen summit]

zulrah is a failure like vorkath

technically zulrah is vorkath

[ionic grotto]

Zulrah is a Dragonkin creation that strayed too far from being an actual Dragon

[ember token]

zulrah was discarded for being a failure, and then it grew into what we actually fight

[ionic grotto]

^

[waxen summit]

ye

[ionic grotto]

Literally dumped into a swamp of toxic waste

Crazy

[waxen summit]

its still a vorkath tho

[ember token]

though keep in mind that the zulrah lore book was written by a player and has some lore inconsistencies

[waxen summit]

KBD is a group dragon fight

hydra isnt

[ionic grotto]

By 2002 standards maybe lol

[ember token]

olm and hydra were both created by the same dragonkin, Karuulm

[ionic grotto]

These days you afk blood barrage it with a dragon hunter wand which is hilarious

[waxen summit]

i mean, it "is" a dragon, and "can" be fought in a group

[ionic grotto]

It's also like 25 years old or whatever

KBD is almost as old as me, crazy

[waxen summit]

ooo, KBD gets juiced by a dragonkin?

[ember token]

i wonder if we're going to see the ambassador in the cursed archipelago

[waxen summit]

way to pay homage to the OG boss?

idk something to add a hard mode to KBD or something

[ember token]

what about [[merodach]]

[ionic grotto]

I'm iffy on a lot of RS3 lore but this has something to do with Xau-Tak and the blackstone pilars right?

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Mod_Reach

[ember token]

grr wrong redirect

--Merodach--

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Merodach

[ionic grotto]

There was a lot of hints to blackstone with Sailing

Specifically at Grimstone Island

The place you find frosts

[waxen summit]

white dragon armor looks crispy

[ember token]

yeah the ambassador is a dragonkin named Kranon who's trying to summon xau-tak in an underwater temple in the archipelago

[ionic grotto]

I zeeee

[vivid iris]

I thought that was Vorkath, whose name literally means failure/weakling/runt

Or was it both of them?

[ionic grotto]

Different Dragonkin made them iirc

[waxen summit]

they are both technically a Vorkath (failure in draconic)

[ionic grotto]

Zulrah was also a failure like Vorkath but was not named Vorkath

[waxen summit]

but zulrah is named by the people in the swamp

[ionic grotto]

Nope the Dragonkin actually named her

[waxen summit]

Vorkath never recieved a name, just labled a falure

[ionic grotto]

Then got killed by her lol

I was just reading some Zulrah lore on the wiki

[waxen summit]

or really?

oh*

well if zulrah was considered a failure it would technically be a vorkath still

love the lore of this game, still learning things

[ionic grotto]

Oh wait you're kinda right

[ember token]

Vorkath was created by Zorgoth in his attempts to create a super strong and super aggressive dragon, he was super strong but not aggressive at all, and Zorgoth just left on Ungael to be a distraction to the humans in the dragonkin conflicts

[ionic grotto]

https://i.gyazo.com/72bbc22d69b11c12ca4e64a6548b9e3c.png

Zulrah's snakelings are referred to as "vorkath" in this entry

[waxen summit]

yea Vorkath never recieved a name, hence him just being labled a failure

zulrah did recieve a name from its creator tho, which is cool

but since it was considered a failure it is a vorkath

[ember token]

yeah but really what you're saying is "but since it was considered a failure it is a failure"

[waxen summit]

ye basically

point being vorkath doesnt have a name, we are just calling him a failure lol

[ember token]

(and earlier the dragonkin says that the snakelings were the vorkath that it was disposing into the swamp, which Zulrah can now control)

[waxen summit]

yea, the word vorkath is translatable to failure, which seems to be a term slapped to any creation of the dragonkin that doesnt meet their standard

zulrahs creator changed their mind, named it, then got ated

poor Vorkath was just left outside as a guard dog

bro doesnt even get a name too

[gilded laurel]

Mega rare - Equinox Glaive
2 Handed crush weapon that has 3 different attack speeds rather than attack styles (4, 5, 6 tick).
Stats scale depending on speed (slowest will be highest DPS), 6 tick allows room for 2 more future mega rares with bigger hits without significant power creep.
Passive effect: Parry - bonus 10% strength and accuracy if you hit opponent on same tick. This adds another dimension to high end pvm, but allows more reclined pvm due to different speeds.
4 tick attack, regular chop animation, slightly lower dps than inq mace normally, slightly higher with parry
5 tick attack, side swing animation, lower dps than scythe on larger mobs even with parry apart from monsters with drastically lower crush def (phosanis, araxxor etc.), better dps on single target mobs with parry.
6 tick attack, swing from overhead animation, lower dps than scythe without parry, higher than scythe with parry in most situations - unless crush defence is nuts.
Numbers can obviously be tweaked, but I think this could be an interesting mechanic to utilise and min/max, whilst also being very powerful even afking.

Armour set - Vestments of ruin
Demonic themed mage set of robes that enhance the power of arceueus spells, similar to virtus.
Similar mage bonus but have some additional benefits:
Increases duration of corruption and other duration based spells (excluding thralls)
Damage boost to demonbane spells
Increases thralls minimum hit to 1 (similar to seeker arrows, if it rolls 0 it will be 1 instead)

Niche items - Ascetic handwraps
These bloodied rags will go in your glove slot and enhance your unarmed attacks to be 3 tick with 2 hit splats.
They will be the new BIS 3 tick melee attack, however they'll come at a cost. For each hit you'll take a recoil hit - everything must be balanced.
With max strength gear they should also out perform dual macchiatos where they are currently BIS, huey etc.

Niche items - Beserker shield (we're bringing it back, hell yeah)
An offensive shield that fits somewhere between the defensive capabilities of a dfs/crystal shield and the offensive capabilities of the avernic.
Not surpassing either but useful in combination for certain content.
Not impressed? The shield will also have a passive effect: "Lure" when your mainhand is set to defensive you will always draw aggro. If two people attacking the same monsters have this passive, the person with the highest defence will take aggro.
This may be extremely useful in the new raid and many other group bosses where aggro is difficult to switch.

Nich items - Scribe's repeater
Offhand crossbow that fires an additional bolt whenever an accuracy roll is failed
This would be 2 ticks after the mainhand failed.
Simple as, stats would be fairly low, could even attach to that new hopper thing idk.

Please let me know if these are trash or what you think, excited for some new stuff to come in to the game soon!

[stark dome]

https://tenor.com/view/wesker-albert-albert-wesker-resident-evil-resident-evil-4-gif-5143688443782660001

[waxen summit]

interesting ideas, i like the aggro mechanic of the shield, makes tanking easier

[true talon]

I think we going to see a crush mega rare that will consume the inquistor mace for max power.
Crush armor set that will consume the inqusitor armor set for max power.
And then some other stuff. but im suspecting this to be a crush style raid focused on inqusitor.

Inquisitor likely could be improved-upon, but where does that leave the Nightmare of Ashihama's place in the game, and if we went down the 'armour upgrade' route, does 'upgradescape' feel appropriate for a raids reward?

Interesting that they say this with masori lmao.

[ionic grotto]

Whatever the mega rare is, it's not gonna require some other item, never has never will.

The gear could yeah, there's precedent for that.

[waxen summit]

agreed

megarare should be able to stand out on its own

[ionic grotto]

It's funny though, the Tbow almost did require Seercull

But for some reason that got scrapped before release

[waxen summit]

that would lean more into upgradescape tho

[ionic grotto]

ye

[waxen summit]

getting a "twisted bowstring" to upgrade the seercull

or w.e

[ionic grotto]

Twisted remains

[minor whale]

0 chance it consumes Inq Mace

Great way of making the megarare worth shit

[true talon]

i tried to make sure the inquis mace wasnt devalued, but i guess it dont matter since its not even the best crush wep XD

[ionic grotto]

Inq mace will still have its niche

4 tick, good Prayer bonus, set eff with full Inq

Mega rare is gonna be stab anyways

[minor whale]

A 1/1250 drop being needed from a 6 minute boss fight to make 1 megarare is just untenable unless the megarare part is ludicrously common

[true talon]

How is it gonna have a niche when the mega rare talked about is going to be crush

[ionic grotto]

That it won't be a 1.5b item

[true talon]

it was more the mega rare is stand alone and you use the mace on it to gain additional power. not that the mega rare needs the mace to function.

[ionic grotto]

Still not gonna happen though

Whether the mega rare is a crush wep or stab wep it'll be its own thing completely.

Just like all the others have

[minor whale]

Masori needing Arma makes sense as none of the power is locked behind it and the armor is in the 10s of hours to grind out

[true talon]

Well yea

[ionic grotto]

We will probably have to charge it as all mega rares consume something

[minor whale]

Inq Mace is in the hundreds and unless it just unlocks some niche stat that is meaningless it's not gonna happen

[waxen summit]

while not a megarare, this is similair to the kodai wand

[ionic grotto]

Tbow consumes arrow shots, Scythe and Shadow need to be charged directly.

[true talon]

shouldnt care how long it takes to get the upgrade pieces, all that matters is how powerfl the armor is.

[ionic grotto]

Technically is a mega rare by the original definition

[true talon]

new crush armor is perfect adding inquis will give it the inquis effect to crush weps and maybe some additional accuracy

[ember token]

the crush megarare should be charged with wrath runes and dragon arrows I think

[minor whale]

Also master wand isn't that rare or hard to get

[ionic grotto]

I think the more likely option is adding an item to combine Justi and Inq to make perfected Justi

There is a Justi boss in TFA

[minor whale]

Master wand + kodai is an entirely different ballpark than inq Mace + megarare

[ionic grotto]

And canonically Inquisitor's armour and Justiciar armour are actually the same thing, Inq is just the corrupted Zamorakian version.

[true talon]

no thanks, an item as a drop that combines with 2 armor sets is stupid.

[ionic grotto]

Also very true

[ionic grotto]

It makes sense lore wise

Doubt it'll happen

Maybe just Inq

[ember token]

it makes more sense than all the other armor combinations

[true talon]

Crush armor that drops usable an upgradeable with inquis is best approach unless you want to just sink nightmare more than it is

Makes sense with the crush spec wep also added soon

[ionic grotto]

Either way I already covered what all the new rewards will be

[ionic grotto]

• this

[true talon]

I dont think that is true but stay in your delusional world lol

[ionic grotto]

Wdym my ideas are very realistic

Jagex talks about a bunch of similar stuff in the most recent blog lol

Although admittedly they seem more set on a crush mega rare but they didn't rule out stab either

I'm just trying to sway them towards stab

[ember token]

void upgrade as the armor reward, and the megarare is a super void knight mace that is a viable melee/magic hybrid weapon

[ionic grotto]

Mainly because I like the Sunlight spear as a concept

[minor whale]

Void upgrade unfortunately probably never going to happen

[ionic grotto]

^

Unless

We get that quest from RS2

[restive siren]

Fortunately*

[minor whale]

Void getting basically any sort of upgrade makes it better than Masori almost everywhere

[ionic grotto]

Also true

[zinc galleon]

I like the idea of armor megarares that are just a single item, it’s too bad they are too fashion-sensitive about it. Just let people use color dyes on armor 🤷‍♂️

[ember token]

would be cool to see the void knight questline in osrs

[minor whale]

It needs very little extra accuracy or damage bonus to nudge out Masori

[ionic grotto]

But then they'd just have more incentive to give us Pernix

So I wouldn't complain

[true talon]

I think it was more the statement of i already covered what the new rewards will be and what i stated is accurate and i already demanded jagex make these rewards and there is no reason to debate it.

[ionic grotto]

Well my concepts are far more realistic than yours are

I'm not so much posing concepts as much as I am predicting what they might do also

[true talon]

what?

[ionic grotto]

.

[true talon]

you didnt say predicting, you said in your words. "Either way I already covered what all the new rewards will be"

[ionic grotto]

Keep in mind you wanted the mega rare to consume an Inq mace to reach its full power

Lol

Which I would bet my entire OSRS bank will never happen

[true talon]

Ya but i didnt state that this is what its going to be, thats why its an idea.......

[ionic grotto]

Yes, this is what is referred to as a "prediction".

[ember token]

speaking of the sunlight spear, i wonder if we're gonna see them try any raids 4 concepts as new echo items in leagues, or if we'll see any of the ones from last leagues showing up as raids 4 drops

[true talon]

you never said prediction, you literally said dont debate it, i already told you what its going to be???

[ionic grotto]

I definitely think temp servers/game modes just in a general sense are a fantastic proving ground to throw a new concept at players and see how they perform in real gameplay

[true talon]

Phosani Nex

NEX
— 4:59 PMThursday, March 5, 2026 4:59 PM
Either way you guys don't need to worry about raids 4 uniques anymore I already got them all covered and passed all my ideas to Jagex

Mega Rare: Inspired by the Sunlight spear, 5 tick 2 handed, damage scales to your Prayer bonus, stab is the primary attack style but it can use crush or slash too just like any spear.

Armour set: Elemental Mage robes, basically Virtus but for elemental spells, will help close the gap between elemental spells/proper spellcasting and powered staves

Fractured Staff of Armadyl: New staff that buffs elemental spells, meant to be paired with the new robes, an alternative to the Harm so that the Harm isn't the ONLY viable option for powerful elemental spells. Think like a Twinflame staff on crack.

New Ranged Offhand: BiS over the Buckler, additional passive effect that enhances enchanted bolt procs, maybe like a 1-2.5% higher proc chance across the board.

New potion ingredients: Items to make Super Prayer potions and Overloads

[ionic grotto]

I think ideas like the Drygore blowpipe could come back

Sunlight spear could easily be turned into a mega rare

I think the only ones we probably won't ever see are just like the lazy substitute BiS items like the Echo DKs ammy and ring

[true talon]

Either way you guys don't need to worry about raids 4 uniques anymore I already got them all covered and passed all my ideas to Jagex
Is the dumbiest thing i ever seen.

[ionic grotto]

That are basically just a way to give Fremennik value as a region so you don't need Zenytes or DT2 rings etc

[ionic grotto]

Cry is free

[true talon]

Your vision of self importance seems highly delusional lol

[restive siren]

Really not a fan of a prayer weapon but i think ele armor is the most reasonable approach, i agree with others though that harm would need to be looked at before that

[ionic grotto]

Sunlight spear is cool wym

[restive siren]

Cool in concept, problematic in execution

[ionic grotto]

Prayer is a very underused combat skill so why shouldn't we get a mega rare that incorporates it more intimately?

[true talon]

Typeless AOE damage shield that doesnt share cooldown with attack timer XD

[ionic grotto]

Never said it would be the same thing bud

I explained exactly how I would like it to work in a main game application

[true talon]

Problem is that the stab space is very limited

FANG is insane

[ionic grotto]

You guys clearly just don't know how to read

[ionic grotto]

Fang is fine to powercreep

[true talon]

FANG was nerfed multiple times and it is still busted lol

[ionic grotto]

Not really

It's definitely not mega rare power

So there's space for a stab mega rare

[ionic grotto]

I explained exactly how I'd like a prayer spear mega rare to work here btw

No special attack, no typeless damage, that's all leagues/private server-y stuff.

I'm talking about taking the general concept of the Sunlight spear and molding it into something more like a Tbow or Shadow style mega rare.

[restive siren]

First of all prayer gear makes you look like an utter clown, nobody wants to run raids in that. Second not a lot of stab content in the game. Third it makes the cheap afk slayer gear into a probably 500m+ set of gear for no reason but a gimmick. Fourth future balancing concerns since every new prayer item now suddenly creeps into bis dps.

Also nobody would want to bring 4 gearsets into a raid

Its just a gimmick that sounds cool

[ionic grotto]

First of all that's a completely moot point that shouldn't even be taken into consideration so I'll ignore that point.

Second of all that's the ENTIRE purpose of introducing new weapons in new spaces, to push new metas that previously were underutilized.

Third of all, no it wouldn't. There are no gear sets in the game worth that much besides Torva.

Also you wouldn't need 4 gear sets because ideally you'd just balance out high Strength and Prayer bonus to maximize your overall DPS.

[restive siren]

First is absolutely not a moot point, you can pretend nobody cares about that but people do

[ionic grotto]

Okay and BiS range looked like ass for 8 years

Cry is free lol

[restive siren]

Why are you so hyper sensitive nobody is crying

[minor whale]

I don't think aesthetics are a reason to discount an idea just because it'd make something ugly useful

[ionic grotto]

How the gear it will be used with looks is like the last thing Jagex should care about when designing a new weapon

[ionic grotto]

Seriously this is the most nitpicky bs complaint ever lmao

[minor whale]

Also it would definitely not be 500m, Sunfire from Colo is very very attainable

[ionic grotto]

For all we know they'd release new Prayer gear with it anyways

Yeah half his complaints were complete nothing burgers lol

Sunfire might go to 100m max

It's too common to go any higher

[minor whale]

Each piece is 1/24 from a w12 run

[sturdy zephyr]

As a secondary purple item. We could have a shield that has a spec bar that blocks(negates) the next souce of damage that would have damaged the player on the damaging tick (including any other damage stacked on that tick). The effect could last 15 ticks or until it negates damage.

Much like a pnec except its pre-cast. It could use 25% or 30% spec energy. No cooldown between uses.

It would have neat uses such as cerb ghosts / zuk chances / jad / verzik greenball / doom cannon / sote red ball

There would be quite a lot of places where it would be neat. Could also be combod with spellbookswap stall to stack a ton of hits together and then negate them

[restive siren]

Players care a lot about visuals and jagex does too, see zuk helm, oath, blorva, the reception of the new crash mace

[ionic grotto]

Yeah but Jagex spends next to no time when creating a weapon saying "how good will players look using the expected gear while using this?"

[sturdy zephyr]

Would have fewer uses for very good players but many more uses for midtier players

[ionic grotto]

And if people bitch about Sunfire being ugly then just rework Sunfire? They did it to Torva and a few other things. They can rework Sunfire too you know.

That shouldn't be the deciding factor on this mega rare not happening lmfao

[restive siren]

Its not, its one of the factors

[ionic grotto]

It's a nothing burger like I said

[restive siren]

Yeah i remember now how mad you got over nobody liking your ideas back when you posted this in suggestions, no point in trying to discuss this

Cry is free i guess

[ionic grotto]

Actually plenty of people did but selective memory goes brrr I guess lol

Rest assured Jagex will tweak the numbers and balance it out so that it all makes sense. I'm only providing you with a broad concept to ruminate on. Jagex will do the rest and in a few months when they release the first reward concepts don't be surprised if this is one of them and I will be here to say I told you so, cya then lil bro 🙂

[restive siren]

Sure thing bud

[ionic grotto]

Bro completely ignoring the upvotes lol

Which by the way almost all the upvotes came first, only when a few people came to start bitching did all their buddies gang up on me and spite downvote my post

[umbral summit]

yes that is how democracy works

[ionic grotto]

And most of the people on this thread that I've talked to have been pretty keen on most of the ideas as well

Just you and a few others hating on it

This is what we in reality refer to as the "loud minority".

or vocal minority

[restive siren]

Must be nice in your own little reality. Anyways

[ionic grotto]

the game suggestion section is actually toxic asf with mostly hate downvotes coming from the same few people all the time

[sly basin]

when people vote for me, its not catering im just right, when people dont vote me, they are all haters and spite voting

[ionic grotto]

When you actually talk to players out in the wild most are pretty receptive

the suggestions forum is a very small echo chamber with the same few people

[true talon]

Hmm sounds familar

[ionic grotto]

It's a very very small sample size of the greater community and not a very good one

And realistically all of my ideas would get a 70% vote or higher anyways so yeah gg

[restive siren]

Havent seen anyone cope so hard since eoc

[true talon]

? who you out in the wild speaking to about your ideas and they paying attention to you lol

You standing at the GE pitching your ideas of what you demand the raids 4 uniques be and shutting down everyone saying its not good?

[ionic grotto]

My clans consisting of a collective thousands of players?

[true talon]

ok but your clan would be a collective of an echo chamber

[ionic grotto]

If you wanna be toxic you can be toxic idrc but we were having fun productive discussions until you got here

At the end of the day I'll let Jagex decide

[true talon]

you invited people to your group that supports your vision and ideas

[ionic grotto]

I promise you most of NexFFA is not blindly supporting anything I say lol

Most of them are just irons trying to get their ZCBs bud

[true talon]

but when your in a realm of free thought, you are exposed as being a complete looney

[ionic grotto]

k

Keep being toxic see how that goes for you lol

[true talon]

im not being toxic......

[ionic grotto]

I'm done here for now I got better things to do

Y'all have fun tho

[true talon]

bye you got a gold farmer CC to moderate

nexffa

[restive siren]

The discussion being you spamming this channel for the past 8 hours and inserting your spear idea every 10 minutes yeah was great

[ionic grotto]

"I'm not being toxic"

continues being toxic

The irony is astounding LMAOO

[ionic grotto]

If that's what you think was happening you missed about 7 hours of conversation

Reading is hard though I get it

We can't all be literate

[minor whale]

Yeah that'll make people care about your ideas

[ionic grotto]

Never even claimed I was trying to make people care or that I want them to care. At the end of the day the only thing that matters is a JMod sees it in passing and says "yeah this could work" and they refine it from there. That's kind of the entire point of threads like these, it's data gathering for them so they can find cool concepts from players that can be worked into something feasible.

[sly basin]

ive only seen you be toxic so far im ngl nobody actually likes your imput because you get hostile when people disagree

please dont be toxic

[ionic grotto]

Yeah ok you're actually just blind

[sly basin]

people are allowed to have opinions btw i hope that helps

[ionic grotto]

Yeah it's also possible to have opinions without flaming me

If you don't like my ideas that's cool but you don't have to say "yeah you have a goldfarmer cc to go moderate"

[sly basin]

well tbf ive seen people disagree and you start to insult people, thats not very kind 😔

[ionic grotto]

Very unrelated and very toxic to just go ahead and say that when I'm trying to exit the conversation lol

I woulda been gone already but since ppl wanna fight with me over unrelated shit we can fight over unrelated shit idc I'm all for the smoke

[ionic grotto]

Noticed you haven't piped up since, what's wrong?

[ionic grotto]

Disagreeing is fine idc if you don't like something but when they start flaming me I'm gonna have issues with that and if they wanna be toxic I can be toxic back lol

I've had mostly productive conversations in here today up until now

Go scroll thru and look me and a few others were bouncing ideas off each other basically all day

But we're good now seems all the people who were being toxic and flaming me gave up and left. Gg ez clear I win better luck next time

[nocturne solstice]

A little late to the party but let's just move on from this topic then

[true talon]

i had nothing more to say to you. you just went off the rails and started spamming and insulting everyone lol.

[nocturne solstice]

Just a bunch of disagreements going into toxic territory

[ionic grotto]

You literally directed insults specifically at me but ok bud

[nocturne solstice]

Lets move on and not reply to each other to try and keep an argument going.

[nocturne solstice]

Same to you, dont just continue a pointless argument

[ionic grotto]

Bet

[nocturne solstice]

Both disagree, thats fine. We do other stuff with our time.

[noble vortex]

https://tenor.com/view/paul-blart-mall-cop-kevin-james-slide-fail-gif-4287416

[steep blade]

Let us build seats in the 2 empty spots on sloops and assign crewmates to sit there when not in use. They otherwise love walking in your way and making you miclick while training.

[nocturne solstice]

Ive menu swapped em to walk here tbh

i never use the chat menu to order em around either. Find the regular ship UI much better for that

[austere mulch]

Could see this being kinda wonky to implement

Would it block the next instance of damage from getting added to your queue (think ranged attacks or attacks with projectile delays)

Or would it block the next instance of damage that clears from the queue (eg. You have damage queued to land on t4, but on t2 you get attacked by a melee damage source that queues the damage for t3 - is it blocking the melee or the range)

Pros and cons to both approaches

And then also how either of those situations would interact with self-dealing damage sources like locator orb, rock cake, and divine pots

More so with divine pots and locator orb registering damage at different points within the same tick (locator orb queue, divines do not)

[near widget]

graphical bug: brutus slippers do not have their greyed-out-deposit-possible icon in the storage in poh

[ember token]

not a bug

the poh storage doesnt show every possible item it can hold greyed out

like platelegs vs. plateskirts, it can hold both at once but only shows the platelegs as greyed out

[sturdy zephyr]

That's something they'd have to figure out. i don't know enough about damage queuing to even have a proper opinion on it tbh. could see it having some really fun uses for both midgame and endgame players. would also prob have some weird interactions with SBS queuing

coud def edit it slightly to possibly just ignore the first instance of damage/reduce the duration

possible also to add a damage reflect %

[lethal violet]

May have already been said, but it feels like this raid could be the perfect place for upgraded god books/reworking the RS3 scriptures into the OSRS ecosystem. Could fit the raid theming and feels like a reward space that is very open, and ties to a melee focus since no one will miss using a blessing that much. It could also bring some value back to god pages if they are required to charge it and would establish a floor gp to clue scrolls.

[chrome lantern]

I just watched the VOD of Blood Moon Rises "Q&A" and there wasn't really any Q&A portion at all. It was basically just the jmods reading everything we already saw at the reveal and blog so far.

I don't think there was a single piece of new information

[radiant heart]

https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1rm3qa5/raids_4_reward_and_megarare_suggestions/

I posted a handful of ideas for raids 4

with a few art pieces

if you guys wanna see it

[steep blade]

That would be a wonderful idea if menu swapper wasn't buggy as hell on official client & mobile. Moving walk here messes with everything in the game last I tried it so I don't touch it.

[chrome lantern]

Yeah mobile minimenu swapper sucks

But yeah the better solution/question

Why do crew even have a leftclick command option? Has anyone ever intentionally used it?

The easy choice is to make it a toggle similar to Move Follower Options Lower in game settings

[steep blade]

I have not. Getting to the salvage hook is hidden behind a 2nd option when left click commanding too so it's awful.

I would accept their left click being changed to walk here instead, that is an easier fix.

[chrome lantern]

I personally think that should extend to the Sail as well - I have never even remotely considered intentionally clicking the sail to set sails

But yeah I've put and seen that in multiple sailing feedbacks

[steep blade]

Yes please. Both salvage hook spots are so easy to misclick the sails. If I left my crew manning the helm I suddenly start sailing away from the wrecks xD

Obligatory I know runelite can probably fix this with its superior menu swapping but official client and mobile shouldn't suffer because of its existence.

[languid viper]

BELT SLOT SUGGESTION: What if Jagex adds a new “belt” slot, raids 4 mega rare is the belt of balance that upgrades the power of sythe/shadow/tbow (either DPS upgrade or possibility to switch attack speeds or change styles, the possibilities are endless!)

If not a megarare reward, it could also be a good option for non-megarare reward for raids 4 (similar to the fang or lightbearer from TOA)

A new belt slot could also open new content for early/mid game bosses down the line where you can upgrade your belt slot while progressing the account (doesn’t have to be a belt, could be anything!!!). This creates new content ideas for gear without making older content irrelevant, since newer rewards could fit in the belt slot. I’m just brainstorming here, but my suggestion is NOT the same as a 2nd ring slot which would not fit into the game in my opinion.

Down the line they could add skilling bosses with belt drops like cookers belt or sailors belt or AGILITY belt, or belts that allow you to “absorb” the power of the aquanite hopper or lightbearer inside it so that it inherits it’s passive effects (way better than 2nd ring slot imo).

I’m literally just brainstorming here, lmk what you guys think

[meager flame]

i honestly think their biggest problem with a belt slot is that they would have like

zero answers for actually animating it and putting it on top of all of the armor we already have

the player model already does really weird stuff right where the belt would be that they hide lol and it honestly would probably turn out to just look really bad

[languid viper]

Could be invisible like rings/arrows

[umbral summit]

I'm reminded of when FF14 removed belts

[languid ravine]

invisible is sad though

[chrome lantern]

What if as a reward every single item in your inventory had its stats applied to you at all times (this is a joke)

[austere mulch]

They could technically enter the space of doing aura’s or similar using the neck slot, like what we get at BA and SW

So it’s a visible effect and exists outside of the traditional slots

Basically limitless room for creativity there in terms of effects/bonuses

[chrome lantern]

Sure it could be blue, or red, or even green!

[austere mulch]

🤣🤣🤣

They have particles I guess too

The og reward design for tzkaal trials, the mage cape

With the animated falling stars out the bottom of it

[austere mulch]

What I’m saying is it might not be realistically feasible to implement as described because either way you do it, it’s going to feel extremely bugger from a player perspective

Pneck is simple in that it just clears the entire damage queue when it procs , but for something like this where you’re clearing the next attack, there’s two ways you can apply it (either clearing the next instance of already queued damage or clearing the next instance of damage that is to be added to your queue) and neither would feel particularly great

And it gets excessively complicated when also considering self inflicting damage or damage from status effects

Could go the pneck route but that’d prob be a bit strong

[chrome lantern]

That would have incredibly high powercreep on Doom and you would use it to skip every shield phase for significantly faster times

[meager flame]

honestly a really crazy but powerful effect that osrs almost doesn't explore at all is intentional death triggering something that keeps you alive

the trade off would have to be massive somehow but lol

[languid ravine]

how about a taming slot and ur familiar can wear all sorts of equipment

[meager flame]

its something they're really light on trying even though they've done a few things like pnecks and redemption

[meager flame]

but yeah just reading some random reddit responses and stuff its kind of crazy how fixated people are on like

idk how to even word it

an aversion to both replacing ancestral and getting an elemental robe set that is compelling

when it seems fairly easy to make a virtus tier elemental robe set that you can just combine with your ancestral should you have both

so that they're both compelling options depending on the situation and ultimately the best robes in the game if you put in the work to have them at the same time

[remote ruin]

Rice hinted at Venators having some sort of mechanic based on their screech, and the maggot-king will have a similar mechanic. you are ultimately correct, as no indication of what the mechanic actually is was given.

[meager flame]

i think even jagex might be confusing themselves about upgrades too

like goblin says this "This is part of what we tried covering earlier though - does it feel fitting to have Raid rewards turn into upgradescape components? Getting something as iconic on an Ancestral Hat only to turn it into scraps feels wrong somehow"

which is super interesting because apparently the thematics even trick jagex into not realizing that base masori is an ingredient already in making fortified masori

just because there isn't a step where the item gets broken down lol

when in reality that part doesn't even matter

they could just directly combine the items

makes me want to ask questions like if the chat box instead said "your magical items suddenly resonante together and in a flash of light combine into one new item" if it would cause people to think of upgrades differently

even though in a practical sense absolutely nothing changed

[languid ravine]

gear should try to be iconic

[meager flame]

i think the main problem with that is basically just

ancestral is iconic so now do we just never actually upgrade magic robes again?

and if we do

do we eventually just replace them and every other current drop until the content is dead etc

seems like people want it both ways when really at the end it will come down to either upgrades or dead content

it might take awhile to get there but theres only so much horizontal content you can make

[languid ravine]

horizontal is the dream but yeah its a pain to make anything besides DPS the good thing

i get flashbacks to another mmo making a super mobile and utility focused build but it does like half the dps of traditional builds so its just useless with style 😭

[sturdy zephyr]

just going the route of pnec could be the way if everything else is a mess. like i said, i have 0 idea how the code side of it works but im sure if it was implemented, they could choose an option from the 3 that you mentioned. depends where you want it to sit in terms of power. although the pnec route seems pretty strong, you're still giving up an invy spot and spec for it. i haven't looked into it enough to see how it would be abused but i could see a lot of really sweet saves you could do with it. people keep saying they want something unique and i go no other takes besides this 1

[languid ravine]

probably needs some huge downside or counterplay

anything resembling invincibility is like one of the 4 horsemen of overpowered buffs in mmos/games in general

[thick beacon]

if they wana do a small tie in like masori/arma or bandos/torva im okay with it. think chambers is way to bloated

if u could just break down 2pieces of ances i think that would be enough for new set

i dont think there is any other way to tie into progression completely (upgrade scape is cheese but I feel like its a lot risker to not do it. oathplate without needing bandos is ye)

[languid ravine]

i like how redemption is used as a last ditch effort when ur out of food, quite fitting

but a buff spell more or less gets spammed on cd like venge for example, because free damage. or in this case free mitigation

[gaunt minnow]

Oath plate should’ve come from raids 4 not Yama

[thick beacon]

i think part of the problem was yama was way easier then expected

[nocturne solstice]

isnt it bandos tier gear but with some higher acc?

[thick beacon]

and rates were very generous to

its better then torva in most situations

and u can get early enough to skip bandos

[nocturne solstice]

Torva still gives more str iirc and for max scythe hits you still need a torva piece

threshold shenanigans iirc?

[thick beacon]

ye

this is assuming u can even get torva to

which is way harder

look at torva price to after yama

[nocturne solstice]

melee str wise torva is 18 and oathplate is 12

Its definitely not strong enough to be raids 4 gear imo

[thick beacon]

yes but accuracy makes it really really strong and a lot of game has become slash based due to scythe

[nocturne solstice]

it doesnt feel as nice to me though tbh :L

its usually like 3-5% more acc?

[thick beacon]

ud use at chambers/tob even if u have torva just with thelm oathplate legs/body better for dt2 bosses etc

bis for 2 raids and a lot of other stuff

[nocturne solstice]

is it that effective at cox? isnt that mainly a crush raid?

[thick beacon]

its a scythe raid

ppl scythe tekton with oathplate

and everything else u scythe to when u melee

[nocturne solstice]

fair enough, havent got scythe yet so ive just been using dhl on crush

Maybe the real change is that it shoulda been from tob not raids 4

[thick beacon]

think for teams torva is good when u can 0defence stuff down but ye like oath is neck and neck with torva

[gaunt minnow]

It’s not just higher accuracy though it’s meta warpingly good, so much that it outclasses the best armour set in the game

At a bunch of places

[nocturne solstice]

assuming no scythe, would you say oathplate is still as good/strong?

[thick beacon]

yes

[gaunt minnow]

For sure

[nocturne solstice]

Well because of accuracy reasons

[thick beacon]

its 6% dps increase over bandos even with blade/tent

oath is so strong it makes it better to use oathplate with tent/blade over things like hasta even on crush stuff

[nocturne solstice]

Its meta warpingly good because of accuracy reasons, it is just accuracy after all. It still needs Torva to be max bis

[nocturne solstice]

Is this also for cox?

[gaunt minnow]

Yes for cox too, it forces you to use lance on slash

[thick beacon]

it makes lance slash better dps but lance slash still wont beat torva dhl

[gaunt minnow]

Which should really be a stab weapon

[nocturne solstice]

interesting, i should run some dps calcs on my builds

[nocturne solstice]

agreed

nice its so versatile but feels a bit bad haha

[thick beacon]

torva helm is more for minmaxing reasons ur wearing more oathplate pieces nearly constantly

[nocturne solstice]

oh for sure, its just without torva you lose a max hit on scythe

[thick beacon]

ur prob gona be at a bigger disadvantage if u compare full torva to full oath with full oath winning

and there still are places using oathplate helm is better then torva helm

cms being one of them

solo cms*

[nocturne solstice]

i imagine most would be using oathplate in general just because of the cheaper price.

[gaunt minnow]

Yep and it’s way more convenient to get for ironmen too

[thick beacon]

pre oathplate torva pieces were like 300m+

ive done alot of nex ive been tracking torva pirces through that

torva has never gotten this low ever

dont think its a conidence

[gaunt minnow]

Is it too late to nerf oath plate and make the raids 4 armour set melee?

[nocturne solstice]

interesting, for my set oathplate gives like 1.1 to 2.4% more acc on olm hand

I know its better but thats what I mean when it doesnt feel nice enough to me

I should check actual bis set though

[thick beacon]

on vard with blade oathplate was 6% better dps nearly for me

even on irons its more efficent to get oathplate for vard then ultor ring for yama

[nocturne solstice]

how are you calcing % dps? is that gearscape?

[thick beacon]

just dps calc ye

[gaunt minnow]

It’s also the fact that the alternative is torva which is hundreds of mills and unrealistic until end game, or Bandos which is miles worse

[thick beacon]

u can ask any high lvl players they will tell u oathplate is good

[coral mortar]

oathpkate is good

[nocturne solstice]

i wouldnt call it miles worse

Bandos v Oathplate
1 dhw spec olm left hand

like 3t worse

[thick beacon]

is that looking at lance

[nocturne solstice]

yeah thats dhl sorry

[gaunt minnow]

But that’s also considering Lance is a stab weapon

[nocturne solstice]

ill do a scythe now

[thick beacon]

the crazy thing about that is dhl legit most ppl didint even know lance had a slash option

[gaunt minnow]

Calc tob or something where slash matters more

[thick beacon]

prior to oathplate

[nocturne solstice]

Scythe for both, both on slash

like 1.4s slower ttk

2% acc

slash aggresive

[thick beacon]

check verzik p2/p3

[nocturne solstice]

well the chat was how it was meta changing so i did olm first

ye ill calc verzik gimme a sec

[thick beacon]

but the point is that its just better 3-4% better dps is like an extra 2max hits on like blade or whip

and its better at content that ppl care about

[nocturne solstice]

Normal Verzik P2
Bandos v Oathplate
Scythe on both
Super combat and piety

definitely more noticeable with like 16s diff in ttk

but like I said its only like 3-5% more acc so I havent felt it that much

[bronze imp]

isnt oathplate legs+chest and torva helm bis when using scythe at slash content

[nocturne solstice]

it is

this is torva for both head slots btw

torva bcp bandos tasset vs torva oathpalte top legs

Its definitely BiS but I wouldnt call it miles above everything else. This is bandos too, I should compare full torva.

oh i also forgot i had berserker ring on em all just fyi

gunna swpa to ultor

[thick beacon]

its not miles ahead but in midgame ur prob skipping from bandos to something better then torva

so it feels decent

and then its just bis even with torva

[nocturne solstice]

Verzik p2
Bandos v Oathplate v Torva
About 16 seconds better than bandos and 13 seconds better than torva.

Oh for sure, id definitely skip both bcp and torva on main and iron

I imagine for both itll be something like
Fighter torso/bloodmoon -> Oathpate

and you're done

just cause its easier

unless you have friends or something for the BCP grind specifically for some reason

maybe fashionscape? idk

[gaunt minnow]

I don’t think that’s good though considering the difficulty and accessibility of Yama personally

IMO torva should be clearly better than oath

And oath should be a side by side thing to Bandos

[nocturne solstice]

my point was just that it's not miles above the other gear around that tier and doesn't feel like raids level gear imo

[gaunt minnow]

I’d say a 5%dps upgrade to melee is one of if not the biggest melee upgrades we’ve had

Which is what you showed at verzik, admittedly a place where oath shines

But still

[thick beacon]

3-5% for nearly everywhere

[bronze imp]

kind of unrelated but another thing about oathplate vs bandos ive been able to feel is the defense in certain situations. its noticeably less likely for me to get stacked out somewhere like sires last phase as long as i pray range

obvi defense isnt a huge deal but its been nicer when in those kinds of situations

[meager flame]

its above torva which would've been raid gear if they were being sane at the time

tob just had bad luck

[nocturne solstice]

I guess it is hard to get a good comparison to the other combat styles when their armor is a bit weird in their own way too 🤔

[thick beacon]

if u look at something like threads

its prob worse dps gain in any style then what oath provides for melee

but threads are versatile they feel very good

oathplate is versatile and good increase in that sense

[meager flame]

oathplate is honestly a little bit of trolling but its because we criticized jagex too much for not giving us strong enough rewards

we basically bullied them into making midgame armor 2/3rds bis from a boss you can do with a staff and void lol

[thick beacon]

ye i think ppl were onboard till yama was 3x earlier in prog then nex and easier then nex

[drifting ginkgo]

well they also gaslit us into thinking yama was endgame so we didnt know u could do it in rags

[thick beacon]

if it was harder atleast imo itd feel more fitting

[fading token]

I'd rather enjoy seeing that set expanded, just from the point of view of it feeling like completion and extra use for the old items. Though I also remember when the team was contemplating Nightmare rewards involving those shields, there was quite a big backlash from players who didn't like how the items would be obtained. Might be reopening that can of worms if we offer something similar from this project.

[nocturne solstice]

I wonder if we've just hit a cap on osrs difficulty

[meager flame]

this is true tbh they did maybe unintentionally kind of just lie about it

like

[nocturne solstice]

They're already throwing everything at us and people are still figuring things out in like, a day or two

[meager flame]

im not really sure how they gave us the difficulty range on it that they did

but they were way off

[thick beacon]

i feel like theres been good difficulty in the game just no gatekeeping. like lets drop shadows in entrymode/150s lets give doom uniques at wave 2

awakend yama is pretty hard but u only have to kill a lvl 3 cow yama to get the uniques

[meager flame]

yama is legitimately just not very hard content if you're there explicitly just to get the rewards

[nocturne solstice]

Hmm what do you think they could have done to make yama harder?

[meager flame]

it has a lot of optional difficulty that is interesting

[nocturne solstice]

Imo maybe the attack speed

[meager flame]

but just killing it and getting loot is very easy

[nocturne solstice]

cause it already does have a lot of mechanics going on

[drifting ginkgo]

less predictability on attacks/ sigils to stand on would do a lot

[meager flame]

i mean i dont think they needed to make yama harder

[nocturne solstice]

I think you'd right it'll make things harder but people despise randomness

[drifting ginkgo]

he is so scripted that if u watch a guide u know whats gonna hit you way before it does

[meager flame]

i think they just needed to give its rewards an appropriate level of power

and instead we all thought it was more difficult because that's what they told us

so we told them to give us better loot

[nocturne solstice]

A nerf to oathplate stats? thats also fair

yama would have been a nice alternative to bandos grind but still giving bandos tier gear instead of BiS it is now

[thick beacon]

just faster attacks faster snaps idk honestly. maybe more glyph cordination like sandius said. its far below the level of what i think most ppl would call endgame difficulty

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah now that I think about it more you're probably right on nerfing oathplate stats, especially since its craftable

[compact flicker]

Oathplate does seem very strong. Was weird to see it make slash better than stab at dragon enemies with DHL

[drifting ginkgo]

i think over time oathplate will be more reasonable of a set, it's just so good now bc of scy/ slash being so good generally

[compact flicker]

Was the case at skeletal wyrms at least, slash was better than crush

[meager flame]

ya you slash olm's hand too

[drifting ginkgo]

if they do the crush angle with new raid and future content it'll slip from its current bis spot

[compact flicker]

See? I don't agree with this

[thick beacon]

they did this with eye of ayak to imo a bridge that is to strong. there are places eye can even beat out the shadow

[nocturne solstice]

Imo it sits at like, mid lategame? Wouldnt put it at endgame though.

[meager flame]

ya eye + gauntlets is another example of them kind of just going to an extreme

[compact flicker]

Could just buff DHL stab to fix it

[meager flame]

where you basically get a megarare minus less than 5% a lot of the time

which is really insanely close lol

considering how large of a gap they could've put it into

[thick beacon]

i think oathplate still is more extreme in terms of a meta sense where it just kinda overtakes torva

[meager flame]

ya oathplate is actually just better

[thick beacon]

shadow atleast still feels better but neither eye/oathplate shouldve been that strong imo

[meager flame]

ayak is just threatening to be so close that you dont particularly care if you have a shadow or not

at a lot of content

[drifting ginkgo]

at least eye is faster atk speed, lower range so makes it more annoying too

[nocturne solstice]

inb4 ayak dmg nerf

[meager flame]

its probably going to be the gauntlets

those things are problematic

[nocturne solstice]

i think them being from the same boss makes em problematic

[thick beacon]

ye but it was advertised at endgame boss paticularly duo

[meager flame]

its how the gauntlets let you get away with doing things like

hey what if we just didnt wear magic gear but we hit anyways

[nocturne solstice]

like magetank inferno? haha

[bronze imp]

the eye in itself is pretty strong but adding the gauntlets onto it makes it an issue

[thick beacon]

that might be the best soulution tbh rather then nerfing eye just remove confliction extra passive

[nocturne solstice]

I was thinking what if gauntlets was from a different "easier" boss. You could get that earlier on in your mage gear grind and itll make your staves which had acc issues better.

Then that could lead into the boss for eye as a final upgrade before shadow.

Rn you just get both at once and it's not even a mage boss so you can skip a lot and go straight to ayak bis gloves.

[meager flame]

idk how they'd rework it because the idea is a good idea for like

almost all magic in the game

[thick beacon]

a bit worse for tridents but if u want real magic dps u need eye or shadow anyway

[meager flame]

and then ayak happened

because the biggest problem not good magic spells and weapons face is that they're not accurate enough

and thats why we got the gauntlets

[thick beacon]

even if u removed passive idt itd make more then 3% dps loss for eye

[meager flame]

it would just hurt a lot of the kind of degen stuff

where you see what you can mage while wearing tank gear

[thick beacon]

i think that stuff being nerfed a lot harder would be good honestly

[bronze imp]

but i meant he gauntlets were kinda fucky anyways iirc, they were like the third proposed version of a mage upgrade item, and i think both jagex and players were just content with a bandaid fix item like that without really considering the implications an item that strong is

like compare confliction gauntlets with rancour

one of them is waaay better of an upgrade and theyre the same premise

[nocturne solstice]

people knew the implications, hence all the changes haha

It worked with shadow and people got mad it would be BiS at tob I think?
Changes changes changes

[bronze imp]

honestly i think they just needed to make the magic item an offhand

[thick beacon]

i did a calc once where trident with confliction and occult is still worse then eye with neither of that at olm

its definitely not confliction passive that made a diffrence its eye

and when i mean neither eye didint even have torm

just bgloves

[bronze imp]

im honestly fine with the gap between bis weapons and their second bests getting smaller, i think that moreso shows an issue with powered staff progression rather than the eye

[thick beacon]

i dont hate eye or gap getting smaller but i think they couldve made eye half as much of an upgrade and itd still be insane

i wouldint adovacate for anything more then like 3-4% dps nerf to eye

[meager flame]

thats partially because like

[thick beacon]

itd still be miles ahead of trident

[meager flame]

basically

without the eye every weapon below the shadow

is trash

lol like straight up they're just all junk from when magic wasn't a primary attack style

[bronze imp]

i think eye is fine i just also think they didnt accomplish the stepping stone between trident/sang and shadow the way they wanted. i expected something thats about a halfway point, but theres a big gap between them and eye

[meager flame]

its like bat staff or toxic trident where they were like your 1 way mage swap or whatever a lot of the time

for that phase where it was literally immune to anything else

but they never actually did damage

[bronze imp]

idk though i suck at the game so my opinion probably doesnt mean much compared to people who are better and have played longer than me lol

[thick beacon]

u have rag whip hitting 50s like noones buisness and trident with ances ovl cant hit a 50 for its life

bp doesint need to be explained i dont think

but magic always sucked so when they tried to introduce good weps for magic it felt really op imo

[nocturne solstice]

Think in the future we'd just get more mages around ayak tier?

[thick beacon]

I hope so but idk. i wouldint want them to be as strong as ayak. something slightly better then sra but worse then ayak

[drifting ginkgo]

i think if we nerf the ayayaya and buff the sang to be above it we can have world peace

[thick beacon]

wouldint want megas being a sidegrade but in terms of bridges thats where id want them to be

[nocturne solstice]

people already like tob and we dont have world peace to buffing sang would be meaningless

[gaunt minnow]

I generally agree with that take

Tob is already very popular so do the items from Tob need a buff?

Don’t think so

[drifting ginkgo]

i guess

[gaunt minnow]

I’d be open to it if people stopped tobbing because it was a waste of time

[leaden spade]

good mornies osrscord

[still sundial]

did you get lost on your way to #general ?

[leaden spade]

I uh-

[celest solstice]

It might be cool to see a weapon that gets stronger the longer you go without taking damage. There arent any weapons like that in OSRS, and they could tie it to prayer being active to prevent infinite use

[restive siren]

that just flatout doesnt work on a ton of bosses then no? almost every boss chips nowadays

[celest solstice]

isnt that just an unexplored niche though?

[restive siren]

well they make bosses chip for a reason, its a way to limit trip length and force supply use

i doubt theyd wanna steer away from that

[vivid ruin]

Kickboxing is also unexplored niche

[celest solstice]

hence why I said tie it to prayer being drained as well

still a resource drain, just a different limiter

[restive siren]

you said prayer being active not that it drains prayer

if you only need to pray thats barely limiting

like one whisperer trip is like over an hour long

[celest solstice]

I mean im not making the final product, im pitching an idea

[restive siren]

also there have been a couple of stacking over time suggestions and i dont think those are looked upon very favourably in general, SRA is basically useless exactly due to that mechanic unfortunately

[celest solstice]

but it could easily be increases by x% damage based on duration of piety being active and not recieving damage

[dire mango]

Unexplored niche doesn't mean it's good. Some niches are not explored because they're obviously not fun or engaging to the player.

[gaunt minnow]

These niche annoying to think about items should’ve been given to Yama

Instead Yama got the best gear in the game

And now we have to give some annoying niche item from raids 4!?

[languid ravine]

correct/incorrect pray works best probably for tribrid pking since you use them all

whether its effects or buffs or whatever

about all you get is for correct defense is teleblock and snares being reduced i think?

[gaunt minnow]

And damage being reduced

[languid ravine]

just a pain because strong overheads would be nice but then makes it awkward to fight without all 3 styles

if u dont have range + mage they just camp the one you dont have so long as ur not in melee range 💀

[gaunt minnow]

Does anyone actually like the idea of elemental spelll boosting robes? Goblin said opinions are split but I genuinely havnt seen a single person who wants these to come from raids 4

[thick beacon]

theres a lot of ppl yes

[languid ravine]

what do they do

it would probably make sense if elemental, god spells, ancients were all somewhat on an equal level if you had certain gear for each

[dire mango]

elemental spelll boosting

[languid ravine]

so just all of them? or 4 sets

[dire mango]

Nothing is set in stone. But sounds like 1 set from the wording. Would be odd to have 1 set for each element coming from one raid.

[languid ravine]

maybe something that buffs crumble undead too for good measure

[thick beacon]

ye i imagine itd be like virtus. just general sentiment of ancient spells. this set would just be for elemental spells

[languid ravine]

i was trying to figure what each element could do if they had an effect

fire burning ppl was about as far as i got 🤣

wind, earth, water idek

[thick beacon]

from what ive seen its just base dmg buff to make elemental spells feel "viable"

atleast from the pitches

[languid ravine]

yeah but more flavor would be nice

[gaunt minnow]

Fair

Does seem a bit wierd though that tome is such a huge boost to these spells

And it comes from wintertodt

Like you’re really going to need to assemble exodia for these spells to be viable

[thick beacon]

i think other problem is legit ur gon need harm or like harm is gona be a big part of elemental weapon meta

both items feel wierd to get

[jagged marsh]

Fang 2 but crush

It's time

[austere mulch]

The big time saves aren’t going to show on dps calc unfortunately

Eg. 1 down reds in a 4 man went from like 2% to 10% which is a 9.6 time save at a minimum

Comparing full Torva to oath + helm

[stiff jasper]

@delicate glen @ancient ember hey, sorry to bother,
I wanted to ask whether the issue with my DMM points were looked into.
Im still missing 6k points that were never transferred into my account after the event.

[austere mulch]

Doesn’t seem fitting for a raid drop imo. Virtus comes from a standalone bosses, something like this should too.

It’ll just end up being another justi situation which nobody likes. I think the mixed feedback or more because it’s like “yes this is a good idea and should exist in game” but is leaving out the part of “but it is probably better fit for standalone bosses”

[gaunt minnow]

Yep agreed. Oathplate and this elemental robe set could swap and I think that would be more fitting

But I doubt oathplate will change now tbh

[austere mulch]

Even if you made normal spells on par with Ayak/shadow, which doesn’t sound like that’s as far as they’re wanting to take it, you still are behind by a TON because with charged weapons

1. you can still use while brewing
2. You don’t need to reset the autocast if you try to attack while brewed (maybe this was fixed, idr)
3. You’re still competing against the utility of dc + thralls + vile vigor or veng + heal other/group + energy transfer or aoe freeze/heal etc

So for it to even be valuable, the dps would have to far exceed shadow/ayak

Which is just not gonna happen

Would much rather just see us get a clear BIS str set that is actually notably above oathplate, because then you’d still have oath, inq (buff on its own please), and ideally a future stab accuracy set that fill their own niches and all come from standalone content

[drifting ginkgo]

new bis dps melee set with low def bonuses

[austere mulch]

The “too soon” idea doesn’t make any sense since Yama is a low req boss and this is expected to be the hardest raid, and also lance came out literally 3-4 months after tob which immediately impacted rapier lol

[gaunt minnow]

Agreed with all of the above lol

I think oathplate is a product of being the first PvM update they added after basically saying ‘we’re gonna power creep’ and it just feels out of place

Way too strong considering the content

[tough nacelle]

I dont think oathplate is too strong vs yama tbh

the issue is magic gear is in such a bad spot still that the gear reqs are basically just weapon, amulet + bracelet

so the cost to get into it is quite easy. The actual boss itself is definitly hard enough vs gear provided

it prob shouldnt have been duo though

yama is quite appropriate difficulty in a solo

[austere mulch]

Yeah I think oath is fine coming from Yama, shards should’ve been untradeable tho imo. Would help prevent flow of sets from bots coming into the game dramatically

Torva just doesn’t have enough of a str delta to be meaningfully different in most cases

Say we get a crush mega, we’ll just transition to Torva helm inq top + bottom

[tough nacelle]

people keep acting like COX and Nex are some ungodly difficult content

but the reality is yama is perfectly fine difficulty wise - its just a bit too low of gear req - but thats a problem with virt being unfarmable, and ances being rarer than tbow

so they havnt balanced with gear as a priority

[gaunt minnow]

Disagree, Yama is way too easy considering how good oathplate is

We spoke about it a lot this morning and how massive an upgrade it was for melee

Literally meta warping

Coming from a low-mid level boss

[tough nacelle]

its not a low-mid level boss

[gaunt minnow]

Compare similar difficulty bosses and their drop tables

[tough nacelle]

vardorvis

BIS ring

second BIS melee wep

its harder than arraxor

hydra

cerb

legit the only "boss" hardere than it is doom

harder*

[gaunt minnow]

None of those bosses give any meta warping drops

And I’d argue Yama is easier than all of them

[tough nacelle]

0_o

[restive siren]

ok yama being easier than hydra cerb or araxxor is omega cap

[gaunt minnow]

Oathplate changed metas at multiple bosses when it was released

[tough nacelle]

hear me out - its harder than chambers too

[restive siren]

well ok no

[tough nacelle]

trio chambers

is brain dead

[restive siren]

once you can do it sure but learning takes as long if not longer than yama

yama is braindead too in duos

[tough nacelle]

yeah duos is not ideal

[gaunt minnow]

Duo yama is not ideal??

Are we playing the same game

[tough nacelle]

as in its a bit too easy

[gaunt minnow]

Ultor is good but it’s just 4 str bonus , nothing changed

Slash because bis pretty much anywhere with oathplate

[tough nacelle]

then by that logic doom rewards are weak "metas didnt shift because shadow still stronger"

metas dont need to shift for rewards to be strong

[gaunt minnow]

Doom drops are incredible too

Like what?

[tough nacelle]

I agree

but by your logic ultor etc are bad drops

because no meta shift

[gaunt minnow]

Who said that?

[tough nacelle]

meta shift =/ powerful

[gaunt minnow]

You’re taking what I’m saying out of context for the sake of it

[gaunt minnow]

I’m saying oathplate is mos than potful

Powerful

It’s literally meta defining

[tough nacelle]

its really not, its just good

[gaunt minnow]

For a low to mid level boss that’s too far

[tough nacelle]

its not a low to mid level boss either

[gaunt minnow]

We can agree to disagree then

[tough nacelle]

Doom, High level TOA, Solo CMs, Inferno, Awakened bosses, Colo, TOB are realistictly the only more difficult bosses

[gaunt minnow]

Ok bro

[tough nacelle]

what bosses are harder?

like oathplate is strong

80h grind

is not a short grind

I think we need to be honest about why certain things are a problem

I agree im not sure theres a compelling set to add to raids 4,

and I dont know if a crush mega is the best option - however - it would suddenly make oathplate much worse

inq would still suck

[dire mango]

Are you of the belief that regular Yama is harder than Phosani, ToB, CoX and Colo?

[tough nacelle]

sorry - should have added TOB and Colo to my list

ill edit it in

but re-read my list

90% of what you said was on my list

[ancient apex]

Yama does have a low skill floor but could get higher if one wants to, like doing meatball skip, tick perfect attacks at judge, godfly