i mean more than just a raid
#game-update
granite beacon
meager flame
the problem with toa is that loot is too common
ionic grotto
It wouldn't matter at this point. Fang has been farmed far too hard, too many exist, it wouldn't increase in value by any reasonable margin if you suddenly made it rarer.
meager flame
the actual power level is great like 10/10 for a raid table
ionic grotto
Better off to just powercreep it and forget about it.
gaunt minnow
If anything Toa has the strongest loot table
Jus the design of the raid means they’re all hella cheap
ionic grotto
I think ToA's reward design should be the benchmark for future raids.
But the drop rate is too common for sure
sharp cave
Time for a skilling mega rare, elder pickaxe
gaunt minnow
Below 150 should’ve never dropped purples
And below 300 should’ve never dropped shadow
ionic grotto
And below 300 should’ve never dropped shadow
Slippery slope imo cuz then people will ask "well why isn't Tbow/Shadow locked behind CMs/HM?"
gaunt minnow
Yeah but tob entry doesn’t drop purps
ionic grotto
I think it's fine to allow all the rewards to be dropped from the normal level raid and just have the hard modes increase rates etc
gaunt minnow
The below 300 thing is just my personal opinion
ionic grotto
Yeah but tob entry doesn’t drop purps
I know that's why I didn't disagree with you on that point lol
gaunt minnow
300 is where Toa starts to become a challenge
ionic grotto
300 is where Toa starts to become a challenge
Arguably it's 425 but sure
ionic grotto
LOL
austere mulch
By “anywhere stab is used” you mean dragons (lance) and toa (fang), right
ionic grotto
Well, TFA for starters.
Like I said, they already mentioned how they're favoring making it a melee raid.
austere mulch
Stab genuinely has less love than crush but is masked by fang
ionic grotto
So if the mega rare is stab, safe to say the raid would primarily be as well.
austere mulch
FWIW I want it to be a stab mega also
And a stab raid
The uphill battle is people might say toa is stab adjacent and they wouldn’t be wrong
sacred oracle
I don't think a stab mega is needed tbh
Fang is so good it pretty much had that covered for bosses
austere mulch
Fang is far from mega tier, it’s more in line with bowfa tier
ionic grotto
Yeah and that's a problem. Why is every other style defined by a 1b+ mega rare when Fang is 15m and common as fuck?
austere mulch
It even loses to dragon sword if def is low enough
ionic grotto
That's precisely why we DO need a stab mega rare lol
austere mulch
At least crush, regrettably, has some semblance of mega* tier dps in scythe
ionic grotto
^
meager flame
The uphill battle is people might say toa is stab adjacent and they wouldn’t be ...
yeah i think this basically
means it has to be crush lol
meager flame
theres some good reasons actually to make it crush as well
outside of the toa/fang situation
idk if you noticed but they mention elemental weaknesses for a mage set right
ionic grotto
But at this time doing so would devalue Scythe
I agree there should be a dedicated crush mega eventually
meager flame
yes but that will happen no matter what mega is chosen they explain
ionic grotto
I just think it's too soon to step on other megas if they can help it
Which they can by doing a stab mega
meager flame
the upside of crush mega and elemental weakness robes
meager flame
is that pnm gets a massive buff to its tables value
granite beacon
scythe has been in the game for 8 years its not too soon to step on its non-primary attack style
austere mulch
Two main issues I have with crush mega before stab is:
- Crush does have mega tier dps scaling in scythe. Not ideal, but it’s where we are. Stab does not
- If a crush mega is BIS or equal to scythe on def-neutral targets, then it immediately becomes the best option because the primary def reduction weapons are also crush
I think we should get a crush mega, just not before stab
meager flame
i think #1 is something most people view as a problem
ionic grotto
I think we should get a crush mega, just not before stab
^ this basically
meager flame
also i dont think it would be that good on def neutral targets
immediately before talking about it they do discuss niches and how the shadow is a problem
i dont think they'd make crush shadow
they're probably going to come up with a situation where when crush is good then it crushes
ionic grotto
Sunlight spear-adjacent Mega Rare is ideal. Stab-focused but enhanced by Prayer bonus. Creates a whole new niche for itself but would also powercreep Fang and give us the stab mega rare.
granite beacon
Two main issues I have with crush mega before stab is:
1. Crush *does* have meg...
this ignores scythe scaling against larger targets which is important to take into play, also thats why i think it would be cool for a crush megarare to interact with elemental weaknesses
austere mulch
Most content that scythe is good at isn’t because it’s slash weak, but because it’s def neutral and scythe is the dps ceiling
meager flame
the real interesting thing is how it compares when the npc is small like vard
in theory it should be better there
austere mulch
Ways around it when it comes to balancing of course
meager flame
well
austere mulch
But it’s something I hope is considered
meager flame
maybe should is a strong word
it might be better
it could be vard is outside of both niches
we just dont know what the crush niche is yet
ionic grotto
Vard should always stay SRA meta
granite beacon
agreed
ionic grotto
Yes
meager flame
it wouldn't be the greatest loss if it just got replaced though its a shame they made it the meme axe
granite beacon
sra has a decent number of bosses its viable at while being good for melee training
its okay
sacred oracle
What would a stab mega do tho? You'd have to nerf fang for it to be useful
meager flame
i mean it would just need to be good
megarares are a tier above so it should be expected that generally
they're just stronger than the alternative
ionic grotto
What would a stab mega do tho? You'd have to nerf fang for it to be useful
Passive effect inspired by the Sunlight spear spec where your damage is increased/scaled off your Prayer bonus. So think bigger hits.
meager flame
i do think a stab mega would require a fang nerf in a way though
i think making a stab mega that was consistently better than a fang would be like
ionic grotto
Not really it would just need to have its highest scaling be better than the Fang.
meager flame
a very strong stab weapon
sacred oracle
Because fang is very good, and a mega should be op. I don't think there's room for an item to be megarare-better than fang as fang currently stands
austere mulch
this ignores scythe scaling against larger targets which is important to take in...
It’s more so specifically talking to the space where scythe is currently strong and the need to have balancing components to not have an instance like maiden for example
It’s a def neutral target where scythe is BIS because it’s the top of the dps ceiling. If a crush mega matches that ceiling, on paper it’s equal to scythe here. In practice, it’s always the preferred weapon because you’d imagine it’d likely pair with crush armor which impacts the elder/dwh specs consistency to start the fight
ionic grotto
Like @austere mulch said Fang is not Mega rare level in its damage scaling, it's more like Bowfa.
meager flame
that's how you'd get something that just obliterates the scythe on def neutral targets
making a stab mega to beat fang everywhere
meager flame
because it would probably just be absolutely loaded with stats
to compete once the def went up
signal hawk
Not every raid reward would need to be a dps boost. Honestly if we are getting a guthixian themed raid idk if there's a better opportunity to introduce a capstone to void. Hmm, maybe instead of upgrading the void top or robe this could provide an upgrade to the gloves. Perhaps treat it like amulet of the damned and new set effects/passives get introduced to void that aren't just straight damage/accuracy boosts?
sacred oracle
And scythe is bad at 1x1. I don't see the point
gaunt minnow
Fang is good against high def monsters, it has a niche and value at end game. Bowfa is purely a progression item these days
Fang is not intended as a progression item it’s just so common that’s basically what items become
meager flame
but yeah ultimately
ionic grotto
making a stab mega to beat fang everywhere
Not if it's niche is that you boost its damage output with Prayer bonus.
meager flame
stab actually has options in the game that are relatively inclusive for people
crush does not
ionic grotto
That's the piece of my Sunlight spear Mega Rare idea you guys are missing.
austere mulch
Fang is good against high def monsters regardless of their typing due to the high accuracy and low damage ceiling.
Which puts it much closer to bowfa than megas which have generally strong accuracy and a high def ceiling, which shine dramatically as def gets reduced
ionic grotto
As a part of balancing it, give it a passive effect that interacts with Prayer bonus.
So you'd need to use it with specific types of gear for it to be actually OP.
Different than traditional melee BiS
austere mulch
Also they made a good point in the blog that it’s this tricky space where the mega is expected to BIS in the raid
meager flame
like if you just bust out the list of slash/stab/crush options and their placement
its really obvious that crush needs the help
austere mulch
And tbow being the oldest mega, with heavy range being a new typing
That’d be an easy area to fill
But doesn’t fit the expectation
ionic grotto
As long as it's a ballista and not a crossbow then sure
meager flame
which is probably why they picked it
if you follow their logic it basically walks it down to crush or stab and crush is more obviously in need
austere mulch
its really obvious that crush needs the help
Crush has more content focused around crush than stab
ionic grotto
^
austere mulch
So it’s an interesting spot
Stab has dragons, which are taken over by bane weapons
And toa
ionic grotto
Fang is too generalized of a stab weapon that it's tricked you all into thinking that stab doesn't need help when really it does if you remove Fang from the equation lol
ionic grotto
That's niche specific though
meager flame
and a lot of the lower level crush alternatives are actually stab weapons
ionic grotto
It's dragonbane weaponry
Next you're gonna tell me Emberlight is cornering the slash meta
granite beacon
niche specific in the primary use of stab outside of toa
ionic grotto
Lol
austere mulch
Crush has phosani, cerb, all the spiders, moons, etc
ionic grotto
But it's a mega rare so that's forgivable
ionic grotto
However stab's best weapon is a 15m common raid loot
granite beacon
yeah and its best boss is money lizard
velvet acorn
stab mega, accuracy scales with having a shield, give us stab oathplate and a shield that gives more strength than dfs
meager flame
crush with a slash weapon or a demonbane weapon you dont crush with for cerb
im just saying its obvious why they suggested crush lol
ionic grotto
Crush would be fine for raids 5
austere mulch
Don’t disagree with you, and they also mentioned the need for stab too
ionic grotto
But stab makes more sense for raids 4 imo
meager flame
i'd say the main difference is just the accessibility/usefulness of the weapons that are supposedly meant for the styles
austere mulch
Thematically crush prob makes more sense considering Toa has a stab component
But stab generally has much less content actually in game than crush does
And that gets overlooked
meager flame
if you make stab content everyone pulls out the 20m fang (or whatever it costs atm)
and if you want slash
well
ionic grotto
if you make stab content everyone pulls out the 20m fang (or whatever it costs a...
Yeah until they get the Mega Rare.
meager flame
we have about a million of those options
ionic grotto
Kinda like using tent whips at ToB before Scythes became available
obsidian venture
If we can 0 def stuff in raids 4, fang is cooked
austere mulch
Not if the stab content where def can be reduced below 100
ionic grotto
So what's the issue exactly? Lol
austere mulch
💀
ionic grotto
People forget the era of tent whip being 2nd BiS at ToB
And BiS day 1 before Scythes dropped
obsidian venture
Technically still is
austere mulch
Fang is for high def more than it is stab 🤷♂️
ionic grotto
Technically still is
Saeldor Noxious hally and SRA exist
obsidian venture
Missing ticks with sra/nox has worse outcomes
austere mulch
If we get a crush mega that is just fang with crush stats, guarantee people will say it sucks lmao
meager flame
yeah i dont think its going to be fang
just thematically it would probably be more like
austere mulch
Point being that fang isn’t mega tier
meager flame
the colossal blade or something probably not that exactly but just
ionic grotto
So Fang being BiS on release of TFA is fine if the Mega Rare is going to instantly replace it as soon as people get ahold of it.
austere mulch
By expectation
meager flame
imagine leaning into big bonk item doing big bonks
basically
i doubt its about accuracy
its probably going to be exploiting some kind of weakness for big smash
if anything probably more similar to how tbow works
ionic grotto
Prayer spear I'm telling you guys
Give it a passive that increases damage by your Prayer bonus
meager flame
where it picks a stat and just scales like crazy against it
ionic grotto
Sunlight spear but with the spec turned into its passive basically
obsidian venture
Other thing Goblin mentioned was a ballista
meager flame
idk why i hate the ballista idea as much as i do
i think i just dont like how they look
ionic grotto
Yeah but at this point the playerbase has basically collectively decided that it'll have to be a melee mega rare
Jagex admitted as much
meager flame
theres no logical reason i dislike it though
ionic grotto
They want this to be a melee-focused raid
So the options now are stab or crush
That's what a majority of the discourse is now
Ballista mega could be cool down the road though
obsidian venture
I’m not for a prayer based weapon tbh
austere mulch
I’d really like a mega ballista ngl. Mentally it brings me back to handcannon
Would just be awkward if it weren’t BIS at raid4 💀💀
meager flame
yeah i dont think they can do the thing where they make a mega then its just like
bad in its raid
ionic grotto
I’m not for a prayer based weapon tbh
Why not? Prayer is a combat skill too. Why shouldn't we get a Mega Rare that interacts with Prayer?
austere mulch
Gotta say, I don’t envy the devs with this raid’s reward space
ionic grotto
People loved the Sunlight Spear during the last League.
meager flame
the one thing that i dont like very much with their logic was the armor set
obsidian venture
Sure
meager flame
i really think they can take this moment to replace oathplate
that armor is midgame and it should be put where it belongs lol
idc if its new
ionic grotto
It's pretty simple you either do new BiS Mage because Ancestral has had 9 years in the spotlight in that space, or you do elemental robes and push elemental weaknesses in content for a few years.
austere mulch
I’m with you on that, it’s not “too early” to add a true raid tier BIS melee set to fulfill the trinity
ionic grotto
Imagine hypothetically we get the stab mega rare and new elemental mage items and most of the raid is you using stab melee and elemental magic.
obsidian venture
It was fun because it was fast and spec was nutty. Wouldn’t translate well main game
ionic grotto
It was fun because it was fast and spec was nutty. Wouldn’t translate well main ...
It would with tweaks.
austere mulch
Still an incredibly strong stepping stone
meager flame
yeah its a worthy goal for people but like
ionic grotto
Turn the spec into its passive, like how the Tbow increases damage based on enemy Mage lvl, this would increase damage based on user's Prayer bonus.
meager flame
its weird that you can just flat out rush bis melee
austere mulch
It was fun because it was fast and spec was nutty. Wouldn’t translate well main ...
And even to that, the spec was only viable because you can do 2t attacks to stack it up
obsidian venture
It would with tweaks.
Truly can’t imagine it being as exciting
austere mulch
It’d be buns af stacking it on 5t
ionic grotto
its weird that you can just flat out rush bis melee
Didn't know people were rushing Nex lol
meager flame
just show up in rags with drops from like one npc you kill doing slayer
then you get 2/3ds of your bis melee armor
torva would be good if they gave us somewhere to use it
ionic grotto
Raids 4
meager flame
they've been lacking though
ionic grotto
Not a bad idea considering one of the bosses is also a Justiciar
meager flame
just to make it an actual dps set instead of failed tank armor
austere mulch
True BIS melee set from raid 4, stand alone stab set from later released standalone boss
Pls n ty
ionic grotto
Nty
Torva is the BiS melee set and de facto stab set
It's still too new to powercreep so quickly
obsidian venture
Not bis melee now
obsidian venture
It’s like 1/3 bis
austere mulch
It’s only the “de facto stab set” because there is no stab set lol
ionic grotto
That's not how game design works
austere mulch
It was also the slash set before oath
obsidian venture
Oath is 2/3 bis
ionic grotto
Bandos and Armadyl were BiS for 8 years before being powercrept
Ancestral is 9 years and going
Torva is only 4 years old, too soon to make redundant
obsidian venture
And they did fuck all
austere mulch
And oath is bis in more places than Torva is as is
obsidian venture
Whereas anc did something
ionic grotto
Only because slash is more useful than stab atm
obsidian venture
Hence oathplate being better
ionic grotto
If stab becomes useful, like in raids 4 with a stab mega rare to match, that changes very quickly.
meager flame
to make an obvious example should we just replace tbow man its getting old
obv no but lol
ionic grotto
to make an obvious example should we just replace tbow man its getting old
No because it's a mega rare
Mega rares get special treatment
Ancestral isn't the mega rare it's just a mage robe set
meager flame
i dont think it should get special treatment because its a mega
ionic grotto
i dont think it should get special treatment because its a mega
Ok then let's replace Tbow fuck it why not
meager flame
i think its just well designed into the game and theres no reason to throw when you end up in a situation like that
austere mulch
The trend that we have in game:
type-specific sets are from standalone bosses (oath, inq, stab not yet released)
General BIS sets from raids (mage, range, melee not yet released)
meager flame
like
austere mulch
It’s a perfectly valid space
ionic grotto
The trend that we have in game:
type-specific sets are from standalone bosses (o...
Torva fits the bill then as the stab set
hasty shard
i dont like the idea of making a raids item into a 'material' for something else tbh
austere mulch
Torva fits the bill then as the stab set
It’s not a stab set
austere mulch
It’s only functionally the set because there is no stab set
meager flame
granted you dont thematically destroy your masori but like
meager flame
its just 1 of 2 ingredients to make the good masori
austere mulch
Not true, it remains BIS on 0 def
ionic grotto
Hence why releasing a stab set at this point doesn't work within the game.
austere mulch
Which is a niche
ionic grotto
Unless you buff Torva in some way
hasty shard
triple hit stab weapon 
meager flame
if i could make torva irrelevant and upgrade justi and make that content more valuable long term
thats a trade i make every single time
austere mulch
Fr if we could switch Torva and justi sources, would do it in a heart beat
ionic grotto
Torva is historical content, the mistake they made is not incorporating its HP boost which is what its real niche was back in the day.
austere mulch
Tob should’ve been BIS melee set
ionic grotto
Tob should’ve been BIS melee set
Also true
Justi was supposed to basically be what Torva is
But ppl voted no to STR bonus lol
Cuz they're idiots
meager flame
plus i think theres some like really cool effects going on in the background
if you went crush mega and justi upgrade to bis melee in the same raid
you'd help tob to offset any slight scythe decrease
you'd also boost pnm for inq
hasty shard
triple hit stab weapon <:masorihmm:1017166165962936401>
trident where its like an inverse of scythe; on a 3x3 target you do a hit like scythe does but on a 1x1 you do all 3 hits 100/100/100% each
signal hawk
recoil armor that increases dps but has terrible defensive stats?
meager flame
and if they get their way where they kind of obviously want an elemental robe upgrade that maybe combines with ancestral lol
you'd also buff harm orb
basically raids 4 could boost other content
ionic grotto
Bad idea to upgrade raid items with other raids imo
meager flame
i think its fine as long as all items are usable without each other
austere mulch
if you went crush mega and justi upgrade to bis melee in the same raid
I think part of the issue with justi upgrade is that in lore, inq is already basically the corrupted version
💀
warm knoll
I think that a Warhammer could be visually cool
ionic grotto
UpgradeScape works to a degree but requiring you to do multiple raids to actually get the drop you want is bad
austere mulch
Rock and a hard place
meager flame
yeah they can just pretend that didn't happen
like the rest of us when we see the nightmare
hasty shard
let us use the radiant sigil on inquisitor
if we get a crush mega its kinda zzz tbh
also we already have one
ionic grotto
Elemental robes will work if they also include a staff to go with them so that Harm isn't the end all be all for anything to do with elemental weaknesses.
hasty shard
fk
ionic grotto
It's fine if it's a strong option but it shouldn't be THE ONLY option.
warm knoll
I kind of want a 6t crush weapon warhammer that's able to hit from 2t and hits like a fucking truck
meager flame
i do think that there is probably an additional change incoming if they do crush mega
signal hawk
I kind of want a 6t crush weapon warhammer that's able to hit from 2t and hits l...
torich's warhammer ftw
ionic grotto
Also raids 4 should give us a couple new potions. Super Prayers and Overloads. It's time.
meager flame
i would not be surprised if they remove scythe crush option in the same update
austere mulch
recoil armor that increases dps but has terrible defensive stats?
It’s a cool idea but chip damage is already widely hated, which is what you’d need for this to be remotely viable since prayers protect 100% most cases
Also you can run into the whole “flick sets” issue that Jagex is actively trying to avoid where possible
hasty shard
what does splitting scythe into two megas exactly achieve
warm knoll
we have dragon hunter lance from a spear, a lance could also be cool
obsidian venture
Fr if we could switch Torva and justi sources, would do it in a heart beat
Please
austere mulch
It’s not too late to talk about a spec weapon as an option for a megarare 
hard axle
And that's fine given how low requirement elemental weaknesses are.
Being able to hit 36 off the bat with no gear and 50% fire weakness is good.
It's like saying Demonbane is too inaccessible because you need Purging Staff.
signal hawk
It’s a cool idea but chip damage is already widely hated, which is what you’d ne...
yeah I'm throwing darts at the proverbial wall right now lol
warm knoll
but lances not related to horses still doesn't sound great
ionic grotto
Just give Torva it's original HP boost and give Justi it's originally proposed Strength bonus.
meager flame
yeah i honestly thought it should be a spec weapon from the start but like
hasty shard
It’s not too late to talk about a spec weapon as an option for a megarare <a:Be...
I genuinely want something like the rs3 EoF
meager flame
a lot of people just want them to creep existing megas somehow
hasty shard
it would be funny
meager flame
also i hate that jagex calls it mainhand
pls guys stop it
that makes anyone who plays other games think 1 handed weapons in your main hand
not a main weapon to use
lmao
ionic grotto
that makes anyone who plays other games think 1 handed weapons in your main hand
Other games?
Buddy this is RuneScape we only play one game.
zenith pike
main hand vs 1 handed
meager flame
yeah basically any game with dual wield for the past 30 years
hard axle
looks like a more controlled version of Dinhs, which isn't had 
hard axle
Just give Torva it's original HP boost and give Justi it's originally proposed S...
or, hear me out
just make oath/torva combineable
torva strenght, oath accuracy
zenith pike
shadow realm
hard axle
ionic grotto
just make oath/torva combineable
This unironically works ngl
hard axle
like, melee is not broken by any means
just the fact that most bosses have a melee attack
and zuk is an example of u placing a boss behind a terrain
meager flame
yeah i kinda thought they would do that to begin with
then we could've just eventually had 3 flavors of torva
but then they didnt
hasty shard
scythe technically bis at doom btw
hard axle
its the most restricted attack style, and thus the most balance
tbow and shadow are by for more kank
I'd rather justi get teh 20 hp bonus
and full access to damage reduction on ALL attacks
than torva
meager flame
i also think low key
they more or less do way too much for melee compared to the other two
the horizontal progression if it could be visualized for melee is absolutely nuts compared to range and magic
ionic grotto
I think melee gear is too crowded of a space atm and they should put any new melee armour sets on hold for the time being, but new melee weapons, specifically a new fast 3t weapon or a new mega rare absolutely are in the cards.
meager flame
so its kind of weird that they fixate on it when they've got like
miles of open reward space for the other two styles
ionic grotto
We need more range gear tbh
Release Pernix but have it buff heavy ammo specifically
Make it the heavy ammo equivalent of what Virtus is for Ancients
meager flame
like we're in here discussing stab and crush progression and slash has like 92 options within 10 levels of each other
ionic grotto
Masori stays BiS, except when heavy ammo is used
hard axle
Make it the heavy ammo equivalent of what Virtus is for Ancients
add increased crossbow proc chance, yup
meager flame
and range and magic are just out there with like 2 items in comparison lmao
ionic grotto
add increased crossbow proc chance, yup
Correct.
hard axle
it could be minor like 1-2% per piece
ionic grotto
0.5% per piece, 2.5% when whole set is used.
ionic grotto
it could be minor like 1-2% per piece
Do same as Inq imo
0.5% per piece but it becomes 2.5% total boost when the whole set is used
meager flame
im just sorta interested in like how they would even make a stab mega cool if/when they try that one day
like its probably a spear but
hard axle
but yeah
meager flame
how do they make that cool thematically
austere mulch
The real issues with melee gear are:
- the gap in str bonus between this “BIS” set (Torva) and the style specific sets isn’t enough to be a real differentiator. Ideally you’d have high accuracy sets that actually excel in their niches and a general purpose str set that excels in its niche where def is low and accuracy isn’t required
And - Lack of consistency across the niche sets (give inq helm 6str, thanks)
ionic grotto
how do they make that cool thematically
By making it interact with Prayer in some way like my Sunlight spear idea
meager flame
theres probably some level of rule of cool with the crush thing too because its easy to come up with like
hard axle
The real issues with melee gear are:
1. the gap in str bonus between this “BIS” ...
Exactly, you and I have been saying why Rancour should've been stronger for years at this point
meager flame
idk some big crazy stick to smash things with
hard axle
and same for Oath/Torva combination
its lowkey frustrating why mage/range get EVERYTHING in one set
ionic grotto
Melee gear is too crowded when there's plenty of viable options for more Mage and Range gear
meager flame
its just simple and easy for people
hard axle
but they're scared of melee's shadow
ionic grotto
Like elemental robes or heavy ammo range gear etc
meager flame
and to animate
ionic grotto
its lowkey frustrating why mage/range get EVERYTHING in one set
Which is why we need more sets for those
meager flame
i mostly just want them to right the wrong of justi and oathplate at the same time
its never too late to fix the fuckery that went on with those two
hard axle
i mostly just want them to right the wrong of justi and oathplate at the same ti...
the fact that justi doesn't reduce aoe attacks
is still fuckery
like brother
half the shit in the game is ground-target attacks
meager flame
i just think its interesting because like
ionic grotto
Those are also always dodgeable though
meager flame
if we could upgrade justi to be the bis melee armor it would be a sick drop from the raid it comes from
ionic grotto
If you want Justi to block those hits you're just bad at the game tbh
meager flame
and it would also put more than like 2 items on the tob table
it would still be slightly sad that when you got the justi at tob it was still useless for the moment
but at least you'd know one day it would do something
zenith pike
its never too late to fix the fuckery that went on with those two
i mean, just offer it current standard strength bonuses and it gains a clear identity + usable purpose.
ionic grotto
I do think it's funny how the Rapier and Sang exist but everyone forgets because the very next raid immediately powercrept both massively lol
signal hawk
I think melee gear is too crowded of a space atm and they should put any new mel...
3t weapon with actual stats would be interesting. Wonder how that could be given tradeoffs other than just being more innacurate than other melee weapons. Chargescape is one avenue but my bank is getting full of all these new one-off "currencies" like demon tears, etc.
ionic grotto
What were Jagex thinking doing that btw
hard axle
Those are also always dodgeable though
I want consistency for the damage reduction and I think that's fine if you want to facetank stuff 
same for Ely
Ely doesn't work on 60% of attacks
meager flame
i mean sang was still the second best
it was really eye that just dug the grave for sang
ionic grotto
i mean sang was still the second best
Only if you're accounting for thralls because without thralls, Harm was better than Sang
signal hawk
Sang really does need some love
meager flame
well yeah thralls are basically a permanent installation on our accounts in 2026
like we basically have 26 inventory slots
because the rune pouch and book never go anywhere
lmao
ionic grotto
because the rune pouch and book never go anywhere
Shit's lame tbh we need a dedicated pocket slot for book/blessings imo
meager flame
i still cant believe we haven't unlocked not having to bring the book everywhere
hard axle
nop, harm was outright better, even with sang 
most hotly debated topic among pet hunters
harm rivaled shadow prior to delve items
hasty shard
harm being gutted will always make me mad
meager flame
harm was mostly just a weird item that either messed up the method you were using
ionic grotto
We can revive Harm with elemental robes btw
meager flame
or was just too overpriced
hard axle
petcord
hasty shard
you can but they probably wont
thick beacon
ye i feel like ppl binned harm for trident as soon as thralls came into game
hard axle
u can't argue with us nerds about this 
thick beacon
atleast for raids
meager flame
when you could just get your nice 80m bat stick and never think again
hard axle
even with double dc, harm was still goated af for pnm
ionic grotto
Ayak is so nice for PNM
hasty shard
can confirm
meager flame
ayak actually is nice
hard axle
like the fact you only take a 10% downgrade for a 4-way harm is wild
meager flame
can do sleepwalkers and pillars
austere mulch
I do think it's funny how the Rapier and Sang exist but everyone forgets because...
Worse than that, DS2 dropped like 4 months after tob. At that point, rapier was only really used for vasa crystal 😭😭
hard axle
if u messed up and used thralls, dc, or heart not optimally, u were worse than harm prior to delve 
guess what i used
austere mulch
No spec bar so didn’t even get used for PvP
ionic grotto
Ayak calcs better than Shadow for PNM until you bring a literal 8 way Mage switch then Shadow is just barely better lol
ionic grotto
Worse than that, DS2 dropped like 4 months after tob. At that point, rapier was ...
??????
ToB was 2018 DT2 was 2022 I'm pretty sure
ionic grotto
True
ionic grotto
Rapier suffered because of pre-EoC trauma
thick beacon
if u messed up and used thralls, dc, or heart not optimally, u were worse than h...
hm better kph is harm over shadow/ayak?
ionic grotto
People thought Chaotic rapier was too OP
meager flame
lmao yeah that whole tier of weapons got fucked by the community/jagex being scared
ionic grotto
So they had to give the Ghrazi rapier very minor stat increases over BiS melee at the time
meager flame
and it looks insane a few years after
hasty shard
i really feel like tob just needs new loot lol
meager flame
salad blade rapier and mace are all like
ionic grotto
Ghrazi rapier just needs a blanket stat buff to be what Chaotic rapier was
meager flame
in crazy places and don't offer big stat upgrades
hasty shard
especially if they decide to just gut one half of scythe to make you buy another mega
ionic grotto
And it'd still be worse than Fang for a lot of things
meager flame
like they were so terrified of those weapons doing anything
hard axle
hm better kph is harm over shadow/ayak?
its not now
austere mulch
“We can’t buff rapier because it’ll be stronger than its counterparts”
Yeah, buff those too. Thanks.
meager flame
so they gave them the stats of a tent whip +2 or whatever lol
hard axle
shadow/ayak is better
thick beacon
shocker
hard axle
i still use harm though
ionic grotto
“We can’t buff rapier because it’ll be stronger than its counterparts”
Yeah, buf...
Inq mace is an interesting case though because it interacts with Inq for a set effect
hard axle
cuz i have a specific setup that lets me 1-way everything
hasty shard
its not now
harm is like 20% better than in the past!!!
ignore any changes that they may have done such as removing a whole phase
meager flame
iirc didn't they like
ionic grotto
Saeldor arguably should've doen the same with Crystal armour which should've been hybrid armour
austere mulch
Inq mace is an interesting case though because it interacts with Inq for a set e...
Years after its release 😭😭
hard axle
min switches is still solid
thick beacon
not using thralls dc does sound chill
meager flame
not have the set work for it
ionic grotto
Crystal needs to work with Chally/Saeldor
hard axle
harm is like 20% better than in the past!!!
ignore any changes that they may hav...
is it?
meager flame
until relatively recently
ionic grotto
And then you can justify just giving Rapier a blanket stat buff
austere mulch
Mace also has prayer
meager flame
i swear that was a project rebalance thing at some point
hard axle
just make rapier puring staff spec for nylos
austere mulch
Which has been handy exactly one single time ever
hard axle
its not that complicated
hard axle
yupo
hasty shard
might be different with treads now tho
ionic grotto
I do a 6 way with Ayak should I just be doing a 4 way
ionic grotto
PNM is nice when you don't get random server lag spikes
Those are always fun
I love clicking away from a shadow but then just... not moving
hasty shard
why would you need to pay attention watchdog is still enabled there
ionic grotto
Lol
meager flame
yeah i get mad when i die off some bs shadow on the ground because i dropped a tick or whatever
hasty shard
livable
austere mulch
New raid 4 mega is a buff to your connection to the server
hasty shard
theres ur issue
austere mulch
No more lag spikes
ionic grotto
New raid 4 mega is a buff to your connection to the server
LMAOOOOO
austere mulch
Or ping drops
meager flame
i would take that mega
the drop enables you to log into a world that actually works
lmao
hard axle
new mega rare puts me right in jagex servers? damn
hasty shard
they have a jmod peddle a game server over to your house
austere mulch
Instead of individual armor pieces, we’re going to get power ranger bracelets that you can activate every 5mins, cooldown doesn’t tick between rooms during raids, which will gear you in a new BIS set. Removing the bracelet removes the set and does not reset cooldown
Red ranger bracelet for melee
meager flame
yeah removing the bracelet in combat also banks your inventory to prevent abuse
lmao
austere mulch
And the mega rare is the omnitrix from Ben 10
meager flame
tbh i think low key they're making a mistake
hasty shard
🔥
meager flame
when they go in with the assumption that megas have to be weapons
ionic grotto
I don't think that's a bad thing imo
hasty shard
transformation mega would be so fuckin funny
meager flame
i think that just makes it really hard to keep making good items that dont do something unintended
and it gets worse the more of them that they have
like we could be discussing some cool blessing slot item right now instead of stab vs crush and what happens to scythe
zenith pike
I am highkey hoping for weapons that are fun to use, not many are able to achieve that naturally
ionic grotto
Scythe is fun to use
meager flame
i think the only thing jagex has ever actually given me weapon wise that changes the feel of the game and is sometimes fun
ionic grotto
A mega rare inspired by Sunlight spear would be fun to use imo
meager flame
is basically the difference in attack speed
hasty shard
riiight sunlight spear
would unnerfed sunlight spear be fine
like you dont have the attack speed buff
meager flame
everything else is basically the same with a lot of flavor text to explain the numbers on my screen
without the gameplay changing
ionic grotto
Remove spec but change it to a passive effect that your damage is boosted by your Prayer bonus
meager flame
so like
ionic grotto
This could work
zenith pike
like we could be discussing some cool blessing slot item right now instead of st...
styles are such a shit topic imo, since honestly they don't mean anything but adding meaning also does basically nothing in terms of playing the game
meager flame
the blood moon armor set effect is actually
great
that feels different in the game
and you could argue a few others change things like SRA
but thats mostly negative and not too fun
dharok is occasionally kinda fun too but we never bring that out for anything anymore
hasty shard
Remove spec but change it to a passive effect that your damage is boosted by you...
the spec is the whole weapons thing 
ionic grotto
Doesn't have to be
honest gulch
@winter hearth what do u guys think about on adding a spectral attachment as a raids 4 reward like you guys did with Arcane in raids 3? You guys thought about adding a ranged heavy mega rare, so im thinking about the shield u would use. It also gives u guys the opportunity to revisit corp drop table
zenith pike
I think if they can start with making something fun and then assigning power to it, it'd be warranted. Otherwise a reskinned scythe that sounds like it shovels dirt is gonna give me an aneurism
ionic grotto
<@958735975754903594> what do u guys think about on adding a spectral attachment...
Repoll Divine + Corp rework to become a lootshare boss like Nex/NM/Wildy bosses
Divine will absolutely pass and so would the Corp rework
It's a no brainer change imo
meager flame
i will only approve a spectral attachment because somehow i have one
meager flame
in reality i dont wish that content on anyone in its current state
ionic grotto
And Divine
Last time Divine was repolled was years ago, pass threshold was still 75%, it barely failed with a 74.2%
hasty shard
they could just make spectral like, work at most things it should
ionic grotto
Nowadays it will absolutely pass
ionic grotto
And so would the lootshare aspect
meager flame
and yeah divine should have always been here
ionic grotto
^
honest gulch
They said they’re adding a ranged heavy mega rare, so I’m thinking if it’s a 1 handed mega it makes sense to revisit a shield you would use
ionic grotto
Give me my BiS fashionscape shield pls and ty
meager flame
that was 2013 ptsd from players where they thought divine was like
this big amazing op shield and in reality its like
within 2% of the ely
ionic grotto
Yeah lol
meager flame
they're almost the same item
ionic grotto
Also they don't realize the drawback of Divine
The shield essentially smites the user
Would not be ideal for content where your Prayer points are crucial
I.e. Inferno
meager flame
ya they were interesting together because there were pros and cons of using both in different situations
honest gulch
<@958735975754903594> what do u guys think about on adding a spectral attachment...
@fading token pinging you as well for visibility , cheers
meager flame
in today's game honestly i dont even think we would use either for almost anything
ionic grotto
Nex solos
Is the most blatant use case for Divine/Ely atm
I say this as somebody who recently got my 1st solo kc I can say Ely was very important in me getting that kc
hasty shard
we don't have a high end light range weapon come to think of it
hasty shard
like blowpipe is timmy boss drop
remote ruin
cough toxic blowpipe
hasty shard
and is just insanely strong 😭
meager flame
yeah but it hits like it was hand crafted by god
ionic grotto
Tbow is standard ammo not light ammo
Arrows are standard
darts are light so BP is light
Okay hear me out
Echo KQ, reskinned as KK, keep the Drygore blowpipe
hasty shard
we don't have a high end light range weapon come to think of it
something like a euthanasia dart 
ionic grotto
something like a euthanasia dart <:scronglycoffee:1437386913580318740>
You mean like a... death-touched dart?
hasty shard
where you ramp up to super high DoT
meager flame
i do want jagex to kinda loop back around to some standard osrs themes for a year sometime soon
like make the kalphite king and queen black dragon etc
hasty shard
my thought was dtds lmao
meager flame
and stop making new massive islands for a little bit
ionic grotto
Agreed
Echo KQ was one of the best-designed PvM encounters in years and deserves to receive a main game equivalent
Reskin it as KK and there's a cool new boss
Keep the Drygore blowpipe maybe throw in a couple more Drygore drops and ship it tbh
Drygore rapier maybe
We could use some 4t weapon creep
Don't get a lot of those these days
hasty shard
id rather buffs than making weapon attachments tbh
like tob gear just needs buffs lol
they already had to buff scythe
of all things
ionic grotto
Buffing items takes away possible future reward space though imo
Some items just have to stay mid
hasty shard
like how did we get to avernic basically being one of the best drops in the raid 😭
ionic grotto
Such is games
ionic grotto
like how did we get to avernic basically being one of the best drops in the raid...
Cuz now they're scared to powercreep melee offhand literally ever
Meanwhile every other slot from ToB has been crept
Mage weapon, crept, 1h melee, crept, Scythe, buffed, armour, Torva.
hasty shard
their only ideas for upgrades ever are to make zerker gear i swear 😭
fallow drift
For a weapon idea if they want to base things off movement in the raid with melee and have the weapon also useful within the raid, create a bis crush 2/3 tick weapon. They want a main hand weapon and crush based is what they're leaning towards. I don't see any issue with making movement with 2/3 tick melee be an incredibly useful weapon to outshine areas and beat out the scythe on crush, but also allows for highly skilled players to output massive dps. We have some 3 tick, no 2 tick(that I'm currently aware of) melee weapons but they feel incredibly niche and they all have mid game stats that don't see much use outside of nylos and nm.
ionic grotto
The problem with making a 3t melee weapon that's actually good is it'll become too good basically anywhere you reduce Defense or Defense is so low that it isn't an issue.
Like, not just for crush use cases, but ANY use cases where melee could be applicable, even where you normally might not think it would be.
It's similar to the Shadow issue where Shadow is such a good Magic wep it's good even at places where you wouldn't normally use Magic otherwise.
fallow drift
Not necessarily. We have a bis stab weapon with the rapier and it's used pretty much nowhere because people just use the fang now. If defense is lowered via dwh/bgs for example, that isn't going to change much. Using a 2t/3t melee weapon is a lot harder to use than you think as you need to keep movement next to the boss and not just wherever like the blowpipe
ionic grotto
I'm not saying I'm opposed, just saying that there are some balancing issues with your idea.
fallow drift
For example, if your movement isn't tick perfect, you lose out on dps which losing out on that dps, would ultimately still keep scythe bis
Think about the blood moon set. Imagine wearing the full set and the gear sets off its special but you had to move and lose out on that
ionic grotto
Generally speaking I'm a big fan of mega rares being slower hard-hitting weapons that do big damage because big number = dopamine receptor gets activated.
fallow drift
That's fair to have that opinion
My idea was just stemming from them wanting movement, melee and crush based style of a weapon and also have it useful in the raid. Movement with a fast melee weapon having crush seems to fit that narrative
ionic grotto
Oh I'm not at all opposed to a 3t melee weapon being included in the raid, I just don't think it should be THE mega rare.
It can be slotted into the reward table like the rapier or fang
It doesn't have to be the raid's mega rare though
The mega rare should be reserved for something more extravagent and big.
ionic grotto
I think a phenomenal compromise here would be that we get the stab mega rare and the 3t speedy crush weapon as two separate rewards.
So we get big hit slow 5t stab mega rare and fast 3t but weaker crush wep
Ezpz
fallow drift
Some good food for thought
zenith pike
I think a phenomenal compromise here would be that we get the stab mega rare and...
come out with the math and justify it
ionic grotto
Why is that my job to do all the balancing work for a concept lol
Jagex can take the idea and fine tune it if they'd like
At the end of the day the specifics are up to them
meager flame
like how did we get to avernic basically being one of the best drops in the raid...
its because its the only item in the raid other than the scythe designed to actually be useful
like
every other reward was some guy making something that was doa day one or
making items to match huge game design mistakes
like the sang was never going to last from the first moment they decided magic should be a primary attack style
it just sucks way too much
justi wasn't really ever good
and rapier is basically a tent whip with a couple of extra stats
zenith pike
Why is that my job to do all the balancing work for a concept lol
because this was all your idea
ionic grotto
because this was all your idea
If I was getting paid for it I would
At this point all I'm doing is proposing a concept that Jagex can flesh out and fine tune if they'd like.
That's literally their jobs bro
signal hawk
Have god prayers been perm shelved?
ionic grotto
Have god prayers been perm shelved?
Probably, but on the topic of Prayers, it's time to revisit Ruinous Powers imo
Just speaking objectively, they DID pass a poll so they should come into the game at some point but I will admit they could be reworked.
signal hawk
Who whined enough to stop RP from getting released anyways?
meager flame
tbh
signal hawk
gets out the torches
meager flame
i think that prayers could/maybe should be a reward in this raid
ionic grotto
So from what I understand the main reason Ruinous Powers got shelved was that the primary complaint was they were "too similar" to normal Prayers and were just lazy direct upgrades to direct Prayers.
obsidian venture
Think they just shelved it because they couldn’t figure out some things
ionic grotto
Which I'll admit is a valid complaint.
meager flame
like not an entire book or anything but lol
obsidian venture
Like prayer drain and power
ionic grotto
I wish they went the Curses/Turmoil route
meager flame
its pretty weird to go into the god archives fighting other god factions and there isn't a prayer
ionic grotto
The trade-off with Curses originally back in 2009 when they came out was the fact that there was no Range/Mage equivalents to Turmoil
Those got added WAYYY later during RS3.
The trade-off was Curses were more focused on melee combat
Other styles were supporting styles but never your primary method of DPS
sly basin
Who whined enough to stop RP from getting released anyways?
have u seen people breaking several records with Runious prayer without doing anything sweaty tech?, its heavy powercreep
ionic grotto
So if you were using Ranged or Magic you would switch back to normals to use Rigour and Augury
meager flame
i wouldn't be too shocked to get a piety upgrade with a guthix theme or whatever
signal hawk
I really liked that one guys proposal to make god prayers just a couple new prayers that work with the existing prayer book, with swapping between the god variants applying different buffs/debuffs for each combat
ionic grotto
I really liked that one guys proposal to make god prayers just a couple new pray...
The problem with that idea was most of the suggestions were just like, weird or trash niche skilling Prayers.
signal hawk
have u seen people breaking several records with Runious prayer without doing an...
the power creep was real, just surprised jagex stopped it after poll passed
ionic grotto
Well naturally there will be some powercreep with new DPS Prayers that's just to be expected lol
sly basin
the power creep was real, just surprised jagex stopped it after poll passed
i think there was a lot of players worried about its powercreep so they stopped
ionic grotto
Still wish they went the Curses/Turmoil route instead.
meager flame
ya i mean thats what upgrades do
i mean there were people worried about it but most of them obv didnt care
it did pass the poll
ionic grotto
Turmoil is a decent buff over Piety but you'd still keep normal prayers as viable with Rigour and Augury
signal hawk
The problem with that idea was most of the suggestions were just like, weird or ...
so new prayers can't be too similiar or too different from current prayer book. Can't break metas but also shouldn't be dead on arrival... Meh now its all coming back
ionic grotto
so new prayers can't be too similiar or too different from current prayer book. ...
Exactly
obsidian venture
Never got to experience those prayers so would rather them just make something new over re-using old things
meager flame
i mean thats just jagex's big fail trying to like
ionic grotto
Never got to experience those prayers so would rather them just make something n...
I used them during Leagues and DMM, I liked them
ionic grotto
^
signal hawk
Skiling prayers would have been neat
ionic grotto
Give us Curses with Turmoil, thanks
zenith pike
Never got to experience those prayers so would rather them just make something n...
the only thing I enjoyed got removed after the first iteration, which was gambit
sly basin
Never got to experience those prayers so would rather them just make something n...
there was a prayer that acted like venge/recoil and combined with ring of suffering and venge, you could end up venging urself for like 115 damage if u ags specced someone
meager flame
ya they kept trying to come up with insane ideas
in both iterations of their prayer suggestions
signal hawk
kamikaze raid when
obsidian venture
Like nex was a piss addition and it only got worse
sly basin
i saw torvesta play test it
ionic grotto
Like nex was a piss addition and it only got worse
?
Nex is peak
And the recent changes make it even better
zenith pike
Nex is peak
yeah, the peak of the summit after you throw yourself off
obsidian venture
To you sure but it was ass got what it gave/ttc/ and what it did for the casual players/goldfarmers
ionic grotto
That's also cuz most ppl are bad
obsidian venture
And it rewards bad people
zenith pike
Not like being good helped with nex
obsidian venture
It’s like doom but more accessible
ionic grotto
It especially helps with Nex
The only ppl I've ever seen complain about Nex can barely do Nex lol
They think it's bolt boss click yellow potion in 5 mans
That's barely doing Nex lol
obsidian venture
Most endgame folks do not like nex for a reason
meager flame
tbf if that's what most people do when they go to nex and they get the loot its like
that kind of is nex lol
you can play it way smarter but you dont have to
ionic grotto
Most endgame folks do not like nex for a reason
Very few people have ever soloed Nex and that's because very few of them actually know how to do Nex
Take it from me because I have soloed Nex lol
There's far more mechanical nuance involved in Nex than most ppl realize
obsidian venture
That’s fine but it’s not realistic for the majority nor is it worth
meager flame
solo nex is like a much easier solo tob
zenith pike
That's barely doing Nex lol
that's true, but that still get's rewarded. It's all about the optimizations over the bare minimum which end up not being necessary
ionic grotto
solo nex is like a much easier solo tob
much harder*
More people have soloed ToB and even HMT than Nex lol
meager flame
the main reason a lot of people haven't even attempted is that its just not actually worth their time
obsidian venture
Like solo tobs is more feasible than nex and involves more complexity. In terms of worth it’s about equal to trio tob gp
obsidian venture
Not anymore
meager flame
i was talking about both of them
obsidian venture
Especially since p2 update
Less utility for sweets and a huge timesave
Nex did get better with recent updates but it led to a slog of ass backports and gp flow
Plus ttc is another story (better than nm at least)
sly basin
@obsidian venturehttps://youtu.be/uOlnz6-GrWQ?si=blpAHUxBlJgd-O24 i found the video examples he was showing for runious prayer
meager flame
the nightmare is so close to being okay loot wise
like
the armor is almost right the mace is probably not really okay and the orbs are just crazy still
but the fight time and everything is actually good now with pnm after changes
ionic grotto
Yeah PNM is peak
I do enjoy the occasional team NM though but having the teleport is the only thing that makes it okay
meager flame
i kinda want to fast forward to the raid release lol
bc if they do make a crush mega at the end of the day
meager flame
they should make the mace a much more common drop
but the armor can probably stay where its at
since it'll be more valuable
obsidian venture
Seeker arrows OP
It’s not lolol
ionic grotto
It’s not lolol
?
ionic grotto
I know what seeker arrows do and I've seen the updated calcs
obsidian venture
It’s much weaker than you think
ionic grotto
They're still a pretty good upgrade
meager flame
ya basically for some reason people did the calcs assuming best case scenario even though that wasn't sane
obsidian venture
It’s an upgrade yes
It’s a minor upgrade which is ok
The necklace is the true upgrade
ionic grotto
Both are good
meager flame
i wonder if they're willing to take the obvious name for a guthix crush weapon or if they'll be too worried about old content to do it
the fist of guthix is right there to take
signal hawk
fists of guthix is an amazing name for a speedy crush weapon
ionic grotto
Yep
meager flame
i think the only problem with making it like a fist weapon on both hands is like
i honestly dont know if they can animate that and make it nice for osrs
but the name still works for a big whatever to smash with too
meager flame
yeah those dont look too great in game lol
they might be able to do something though like
i think a lot of the examples are emotes or items from 2007
signal hawk
they might be able to do something though like
Is this better lol
ionic grotto
Perfection
signal hawk
dang forgot all caps messages got deleted... Sock'em Boppers! More fun than a pillow fight!
signal hawk
Monk class severely neglected in osrs
Can very much argue osrs doesn't need one since there really isn't any precedent
Still sad no one liked my weighted outfit suggestion to improve agility xp rates in suggestions
austere mulch
Like solo tobs is more feasible than nex and involves more complexity. In terms ...
Efficient solos are closer to duos for gp/hr these days. You can pretty reasonably get consistent s45 overalls without needing to be too cracked
meager flame
i think a weighted outfit would be funny if it just forced you to be a walker and people just suffered through it
austere mulch
Actually crazy
meager flame
and they did everything in game wearing it
until one day they were 99 agility
and took it off
actually funny content
austere mulch
With every update, tob becomes more and more of a solo raid 😭😭
/s but also kinda true
signal hawk
i think a weighted outfit would be funny if it just forced you to be a walker an...
My idea was basically make it drain run energy. two avenues to boost xp. Make it act like sages greaves and give xp for moving or wear the set to get bonus xp when completing laps
Also would add an item sink to lead and the new textiles (hemp, cotton)
meager flame
also i was thinking about this earlier
and i have a feeling
that you're not going to be able to 0 def the new raid
signal hawk
that you're not going to be able to 0 def the new raid
you mean like how players are incentivized to wear defense at moons?
meager flame
they put a stop to that in most new content as it is but like they did explicitly talk about raising up the stats etc for the raid in some podcast
no i mean how players build strats around hitting specific def reduction specs in tob until the bosses are 0 def
rain depot
On the Fractured Archives blogpost (and more generally for big content updates) - have a survey / fairly open-ended poll in game to gauge player opinion
The "discuss it on social media / forums" type approach could mean a lot of decent ideas get slept on if it they gets buried and with algorithms, people getting in early with first comments/likes, etc
signal hawk
Ohh like turning corp into a big chicken strat?
meager flame
just thinking about it though it wouldn't really make any sense to raise stats etc if you planned on people just hitting 3 hammers and xyz bgs spec damage
corp is different because you're reducing all stats
ionic grotto
Not really even optimal to do so anymore tbh
meager flame
i kinda get why people do it
its faster to not do that but corp is just a terrible slog so doing chicken corp gives you time to just tab out and not think about it
icy relic
I always chicken with an alt
setup is fast with horn and it just makes the whole thing afk
round lintel
wish horn would work on iron ar corp
waxen summit
do yall think megarares from raids need to be weapons? ill preface by saying i dont have any, but there are so many avenues to be creative with this game. could add BIS for ammo slot, or add a house/boat upgrade. Or could do something like the prayer scrolls from CoX
round lintel
First version of the fang was a megarare type but they screwed up making it sooo common
sturdy zephyr
do yall think megarares from raids need to be weapons? ill preface by saying i d...
Nothing else will feel as good as a weapon i dont think
signal hawk
do yall think megarares from raids need to be weapons? ill preface by saying i d...
Nah I think the next megarare should be a new blessing that you can activate after you kill five monsters. Generates a strong aoe, caveat that it can also damage the player if they do not run out of a 12x12 square within 6 ticks
Call it an "Act of Cod"
waxen summit
Nothing else will feel as good as a weapon i dont think
i can understand this, but i fear we will reach a point where megarares will just start stepping on each other, IE why get a TBOW when the new raids wep is just better
round lintel
Id be cool if next megarare in sunlight spear
sturdy zephyr
i can understand this, but i fear we will reach a point where megarares will jus...
Realistically, we wont see another megarare for 5+ years. Depending on all the updates up until that point, we may have other avenues of upgrades
So we either create another upgrade path now, or we send it with another weapon
meager flame
i honestly dont really mind if its crush or stab but i think stab gets more attention than crush does
round lintel
Twisted crossbow
lucid crown
Crush Megarare feels like a legitimate unfilled niche - seems like a good fit along the other Raid weapons.
Has anyone floated the idea of a Mixed-Style armor set? Or a BIS Melee Strength armor set?
meager flame
ya we talked about just flat out bis melee armor awhile back
round lintel
Crush Megarare feels like a legitimate unfilled niche - seems like a good fit al...
I did
meager flame
i was saying it should just release and put oathplate where it belongs as a midgame set
even if its new yama just
shouldn't be dropping a bis armor set
melee armor is kind of messed up progression wise because realistically
torva should've been the set in tob
waxen summit
ya we talked about just flat out bis melee armor awhile back
wouldnt this just invalidate all others? like torva and oahtplate?
meager flame
sure if you can get it
round lintel
torva should've been the set in tob
Lore wise doesnt fit in tob
meager flame
ya i just mean stats wise
tob was where the melee armor set should've been
but they just released some doa junk
notice how ancestral and masori do it right and then justi is like
100gp
i honestly think the raid set this time should be melee and combine with justi to make the actual best melee armor in the game
just to save tob from the devs/community from back when it was created
that raid really shouldn't only have 2 useful items
round lintel
itd have had some value if justi had same str as obby armour
Sang would be healthier if only needed 1 or 2 runes per cast
meager flame
sang was just cursed because they were too afraid to make magic decent
so it still has the stats of an item created from when magic was not a primary attack style
and you just brought a powered staff with you for the one random phase it worked in
hard axle
do yall think megarares from raids need to be weapons? ill preface by saying i d...
Super Piety
meager flame
i also do agree that the raid could have piety 2 as a reward
waxen summit
Super Piety
Piety Squared
waxen summit
new prayer book?
meager flame
probably not a whole book
hard axle
its honestly weird if we dont get a prayer
Super Super Piety, Super Rigour, Super Super Augury
waxen summit
maybe not a megarare but potentially
meager flame
especially since piety is honestly as old as time
they dont have to double it or anything but lol
we could get an incremental upgrade
waxen summit
lowkey tho it works for what it needs to do upgrade it would make it outclass rigor and augery
meager flame
like i'd personally do megarare then armor set then a piety upgrade and like
idk something random like maybe a way to make a guthix godsword
and that would basically be the table
maybe like one other random item
i'd probably try a blessing slot or something
meager flame
i kinda think crystal armor should buff salad blade but thats like
not a raid thing
thats a project rebalance idea lol
round lintel
if it was up to me id bring a Ring "Treads" Like
meager flame
the armor set is interesting because even though a lot of us would like a real raid melee set
they could do a lot of stuff
like maybe if we had an elemental robe set you could just add to your ancestral or whatever they could avoid sort of shitting on ancestral and they'd both still be unique sets when not combined too
its just hard in general because ancestral as a whole set is more rare than a tbow lol
so it would hurt if they really harmed the value of ancestral
waxen summit
issues with MMOs is powercreep, WoW got past it by just invalidating old gear and pushing higher and higher. OSRS has the issue of trying to keep nearly 10 year old content viable
meager flame
they sorta solved it with masori and treads
people would just have to accept seeing a good bit of that
i think its probably worth saving raid rewards by using the whole upgrade path
since raids are content people like to do forever and like cox for example is still super healthy today getting close to 10 years later
probably want to protect that
hard axle
Yup, the real reason why people complain about powercreep is rarely about balance
but their gear devaluing
most mmos just replace ur existing gear 1:1
OSRS tries to avoid that by building upon your older gear
so you don't lose value AND you don't start from 0 again
there are legitimate complaints if a weapon is too strong and is hampering designs, but when it comes to new content unlock, Jagex solved this problem extremely well by just building on old gear or using it as a material to upgrade the new gear
vivid iris
Probably not a super great idea but I'll spitball it anyway:
Void Knight armor upgrade. It would make a lot of sense coming from a Guthix themed raid. Specifically, an attachable item to any of the helmets (consumed on use). You'd need 3 of them if you wanted to upgrade all 3 styles. I don't know if this could really fill a significant niche, but it could be a lesser reward from the raid.
meager flame
the reason combining with ancestral seemed good is the same logic that made me want them to save justi
the problem with void upgrades is that void range is actually already probably too good
waxen summit
since raids are content people like to do forever and like cox for example is st...
would people still do CoX if there wasnt the potential of a tbow drop? if the Tbow drops in price wouldnt people rather go elsewhere to potentially get a more lucrative drop?
meager flame
if it got buffed it would probably just be the best range armor in the game almost if not all of the time
vivid iris
it has poor accuracy and Masori is quite a bit better almost everywhere except for low defense and non-slayer mobs
meager flame
would people still do CoX if there wasnt the potential of a tbow drop? if the Tb...
nobody does anything in osrs if there isn't some level of reward behind it
but yeah for cox people would still go for their prayers and the other items eventually
vivid iris
Doom, TOB, and low def mobs off task are all i can think of where it's BIS
sturdy zephyr
Everyone wants that chance of a 1b+ drop
meager flame
thats actually part of why tob needs help
sturdy zephyr
Consistent gp never feels as good as a huge loot pull
meager flame
that drop table is falling off a cliff and avernic and scythe are just holding the line basically
so if something happens to those two ever tob is actually in danger of just not being played
waxen summit
just could def use an upgrade, same with sang staff, never see these items used
vivid iris
both TOB and TOA suffer from the fact that the megarare accounts for the vast majority of the GP/hr.
If we straight up power creeped those items, don't be surprised when they lose 50% or more of their value and the raids lose half of their GP/hr as a result
Who remembers when tbow was 700m?
meager flame
jagex's answer to the megarares losing too much value is a little heavy handed but it works
they saved us by sinking them with the ge tax
scythe and tbow would be worth nothing today if they didnt do that
we saw it happening
round lintel
Ring of Balance Idea (You can add DT2 Rings to it to improve stats)
meager flame
ya they were just hard crashing
i think the important thing for their megarare idea is that they share like
vivid iris
i've seen some ppl (not saying you) suggesting we straight up power creep the megas. No amount of ge sinking would make up for an item not being BIS anymore, no matter how rare it is
Even shitty items like pegs maintained value by simple virtue of being BIS
meager flame
how it could work
round lintel
Ring of balance max
waxen summit
i trust the devs to keep the game balanced and healthy, it feels like they do care about the direction they take it. It is still important that we vent our feelings and talk about these things though, that way they can sorta form an idea on how we feel, and use that in their decision making
meager flame
because im sure a lot of people are halfway worried about it taking too much of the niche from scythe
so we kinda need to see a concept that would give it the crush bosses but not have it just overtake scythe in more neutral settings too often
at least they said they do intend for it to not step on the scythe too much but it would've been nice to see a real idea for that lol
round lintel
Guess no one liked my ring idea :/
waxen summit
a ring upgrade could be nice, but there are a ton of rings already imo
ionic grotto
at least they said they do intend for it to not step on the scythe too much but ...
Simple, Sunlight spear Mega Rare.
waxen summit
could be like an avernic item though, combining all the other dt2 rings to make it better
round lintel
a ring upgrade could be nice, but there are a ton of rings already imo
thats why you could add dt2 ones to it
waxen summit
ah would be a nice item then
ionic grotto
Ring upgrades/2nd ring slots are lazy ideas and tbh you have to make rings really good to make them useful now
Lightbearer is busted so much so that you use it over any DT2 rings in most scenarios
So any 2nd ring slot idea just becomes "LB + DPS ring of choice".
sturdy zephyr
it bottomed out around 350m
i got 2 scy drops around this time 