game-update

[meager flame]

vard imo is more correct where its oppressive in the sense of like

needing to do something

[chrome lantern]

Vard is only rarely more than 1 click per tick

[meager flame]

but it doesn't usually just go completely crazy

where you're having to move and pray on same tick over and over

[chrome lantern]

The end of awakened vard with b2b2b2b head prayers is like

The perfect pace of reaction

[median wing]

i guess

[chrome lantern]

I always loved vard it's like exactly my favorite things about the game

[median wing]

it's kind of weird that the game is an mmo at the start but then it turns into osu

[chrome lantern]

And awakened vard fills the downtime that the normal boss has

[meager flame]

its really osu the entire time

[median wing]

i cant wait for the next level of osu

[zenith pike]

@true talon

[meager flame]

you just don't know it

until much later

[obsidian venture]

Legit

[austere mulch]

Just get like 6 blue in a row followed by 5 green and it’s free

[obsidian venture]

Awakened vard is hands down my fav solo boss in game

Only thing which kinda helps me cope they can make something of this level

But not for a cosmetic

[meager flame]

i actually really like a lot of the awakened levi stuff

[median wing]

jagex should offer a server that runs at 200ms ticks for 1 hour a week so that all the sweats can get "challenged"

[meager flame]

until the very end

[chrome lantern]

Already got tass

[meager flame]

it feels good imo to correctly place boulders etc and kind of do everything you're supposed to be doing

maybe it takes too long

[median wing]

yeah that part of the fight is fun

[chrome lantern]

It's good it should just be like half the time and have the tornado the whole time tbh

[median wing]

following the redeye strat

[restive storm]

I speak for all of us when I say we will be voting no to making d arrows go to 200gp ea

[median wing]

but then enrage u plank if u arent good enough

[meager flame]

for a lot of people its more like lucky enough lol

since you can randomly spoon last phase and only need to do it kind of correctly

[minor whale]

Mod Rice already posted in here

That's not what they're doing

[median wing]

yeah i guess most ppl who only do it once get first clear with decent orb rng

[minor whale]

It's just a mob in Vampyrium that drops them

He didn't say it was supposed to be a new method for them

Just that there's no dragons so the mobs they come from would drop the teeth which could be made into dragon arrows

[chrome lantern]

This is what Rice said, I'm surprised they didn't clarify the blog itself

[minor whale]

Yup

That should be edited into the blog

[chrome lantern]

But yeah nothing specifically to indicate that they would have a higher drop rate than other enemies

For dragon arrows

[minor whale]

It 100% reads like it's a new dragon arrow farm specifically for irons

When that's not the goal

[chrome lantern]

I don't know why they even had to qualify it though tbh

There's things that drop dragon arrows that aren't dragons

[meager flame]

tbh i wish we could just get an engaging/potentially difficult skilling method that is supposed to be the farm

[chrome lantern]

And arrowtips

Fortis Colosseum, Duke Succellus

[meager flame]

it doesn't have to be too rewarding or anything

[zenith pike]

i see i see

[meager flame]

its not even too hard just make something insane like a dragon barrow with some insane undead dragon as a boss and like a sepulchre esque agility/thieving/whatever minigame around it

[minor whale]

It sorta makes sense

Vampyrium isn't just a new continent

It's a whole different plane

It's like a different world from Gielinor

There are no dragons

[chrome lantern]

List of things dropping dragon arrowtips that aren't dragons/draconic:
-Chest (Ancient Vault - Ice Quartz)
-Fortis Colosseum - Waves 7,9,10,11,12
-Vale Totems - Dirty arrowtips
-Larran's chests
-Brimstone chest
-Dragon implings
-Grubby chest
-Tormented demons
-Grotesque Guardians

List of things dropping dragon arrows that aren't dragons/draconic:
-The (Corrupted) Gauntlet
-Lost ironwood crate (lol)
-Dragon impling
-Crazy and Deranged Archaeologist

[minor whale]

So things wouldn't drop dragon stuff

Since it doesn't exist there

[meager flame]

tbh i think they're thinking too hard about the thematics

[chrome lantern]

There's more things that aren't dragons that drop dragon arrow(tips) than that are dragons

I don't know why they had to qualify it

[meager flame]

we are playing osrs at the end of the day

anything can drop anything

i didnt blink when corp dropped half of a key

[minor whale]

Not that they aren't dragons
But they aren't things that could even be around a dragon so it'd be weird to drop dragon stuff
It's just thematic it's not a problem, and it's not a new dragon arrow tip farm for irons

[meager flame]

ya they're just being a little silly thinking about it

if they applied that thinking to the rest of the game they'd have a mountain of work ahead of them

[restive storm]

Idk could end up being one, wouldn’t be the first time we’ve snuck in iron updates lol

[chrome lantern]

Honestly if that were the intent then they wouldn’t have said anything and they would just drop them outright lol

It’s not like they poll everything on the drop table

[meager flame]

they probably just didn't want it to seem too crazy

like holy water dropping on vampyre planet or w/e

[leaden anchor]

Yeah for full clarity that (thematics) is what we wanted to discuss. Individual drop tables may be good for certain resources, like how Yama drops a decent amount of Wrath runes as compared to some other drop tables, but it's less about how many dragon arrowtips we'd like to drop and more about whether people would be ok with us calling them Venator teeth rather than dragon arrowtips but still letting them make effectively dragon arrows

[true talon]

Only care if it’s a 100% drop like how antler bolts are made

[leaden anchor]

They may end up being a decent place to get arrowtips or not, it really depends what other things the drop table provides

[chrome lantern]

I feel like there are already plenty of things that drop dragon arrow(tips) anyway, just drop em in the default form

[true talon]

If it’s a 1/50 or whatever then it’s just as bad as the other systems

[chrome lantern]

There’s no dragons in the Slayer Tower

[true talon]

Hi please design it like antler bolts, we’re you hunt or kill and then process, we don’t need more rng sources of arrows we need a sustained farmable one like how amyethyst or antler bolts are made.

[meager flame]

Yeah personally I probably wouldn’t think twice if they dropped as arrowtips outright

[chrome lantern]

Heck, not any of Morytania

[median wing]

only if u get a game message every time u make dragon arrows

[leaden anchor]

I appreciate that it may feel there are many other incongruencies in drop thematics for us to address, fully agree. The best time to start doing something about it is yesterday but the next best time is today

[cloud iron]

So Venator teeth make an arrow that's a dragon arrow equivalent? And the issue is being able to call them Venator teeth instead of dragon arrowtip so it fits thematically?

If that's the case, just make a new arrow with the teeth

[meager flame]

But if there were some engaging method that you wanted to loop the teeth into for fletching it would make more sense

[median wing]

u attach the venator teeth to the arrow shafts and figure the resulting arrows are about as potent as a traditional dragon arrow

[meager flame]

I kinda think it’s fine either way though honestly

[true talon]

Sounds fine to me long as it’s farmable

[chrome lantern]

I don’t see a reason to create an item that’s the same as another

[leaden anchor]

Yeah our main motivation for wanting them to be the same thing is technical. Making a (p) (p+) (p++) variant of every arrow also floods the GE/banks with unnecessary bloat

[cloud iron]

make them unpoisonable

[leaden anchor]

And selfishly is a nightmare for us to upkeep behind the scenes 😅

[chrome lantern]

Already doing that for seekers

Adding “venator arrowtips” would add 3 more items types alone, with tips, arrows, and seeker arrows

[cloud iron]

I think players would be totally fine with a stronger arrow not being able to have poisoned variants

[leaden anchor]

Genuine question would you guys really not want to be able to merge your stacks of statistically identical but different named arrows?

[chrome lantern]

I want them to just be the same I don’t want multiple stacks of dragon arrows

[meager flame]

I’d always rather save bank space if there isn’t any gameplay related to them being different items

[median wing]

u should add ammo storage from mastering mixology 2

[cloud iron]

I guess given the choice I would want to, but it's not a crazy issue either way for me

[hard axle]

Poisoned arrows are so niche that’s it’s not even mentioned in most meta gear setups. Just delete the concept imo.

especially since most bosses are immune

[meager flame]

i almost think you guys could get away with removing poison arrows in general lol

[cloud iron]

haha right

[leaden anchor]

I wish I could honestly 😂 but that probably can't be done in the scope of this update

[cloud iron]

they're just for purple crab at verzik really. but even then, just bp it

[chrome lantern]

Hear me out

[median wing]

time to add venomed arrows

[chrome lantern]

What if we compromised, and just made all poisons the same potency as ++ and consolidated them

[cloud iron]

v+ v++

[chrome lantern]

Who is ever using p or p+

[median wing]

i add dragon darts p++ to my blowpipe

[chrome lantern]

The funny part is that you can't

[median wing]

oh what

[lament ridge]

As a UIM, I absolutely would lmao, but I think it makes thematic sense to call them something different and it's not that much of an issue anyway :p

[chrome lantern]

Because they didn't want to have 4x as many blowpipe variants

[median wing]

ooh

[leaden anchor]

Preaching to the choir on the poison thing! But again not really in the scope of the update

[cloud iron]

Just saying, it would be cool to get a new slightly stronger arrow type in the form of these venator arrows. even if it's accuracy only. That could be where the accuracy subtraction from the new range ammy is added back

[lament ridge]

But I wouldnt mind if they were just called dragon arrowtips either, it's not like there are no other items in Vampyrium that we recognize, "orikalkum" wouldnt be any different I suppose

[chrome lantern]

Brother we’re already getting seeker arrows they’re not going to make dragon+ arrows

[cloud iron]

It'd solve this problem and if it's accuracy only it'd be fine

[leaden anchor]

I guess if we add a new type of arrows we can call them something more generic and then we can have "Dragon arrows" and "[Generic name] arrows" and then we can just slowly transition away from using dragon arrows

And dragon arrows will just be another one of those weird quirks of OSRS history

[cloud iron]

I vote yes

[leaden anchor]

Statistically identical but different name

[cloud iron]

oh

[lament ridge]

What if they were "dulled arrowtips" and you could clean them into dragon arrowtips?

[leaden anchor]

2 bank slots, can't be merged in quiver

[sharp cave]

I think thays dumb, why not just... buff dragon arrow tip drops rates?

[lament ridge]

In line with the other dulled items

[hard axle]

Because you have dummies who complain no matter what unless it’s buyable from a shop

[sharp cave]

What is the point in effectively retiring dragons arrows to legacy contrnt?

[cloud iron]

Doesn't make sense unless these venator teeth make new better arrows with a different name

[leaden anchor]

The only problem with this is that it doesn't really address the thematic problem. The dragon arrowtips are dragon talons which don't exist on Vampyrium so you wouldn't find them there. Obviously I hear you, you're saying that that's not a problem, and I take that on board. Just saying that making them dulled doesn't solve the same problem that making them Venator teeth solves

[sharp cave]

Yeah cant wait for the iron have it too easy now crowd to start chirping

[meager flame]

ultimately it would probably be the same reason that everything gets replaced eventually

like we didn't just keep buffing rune arrows

[minor whale]

Dragon arrow tips aren't intended to be iron farmable consistently without high effort

I think thematically grounding things is a good idea and keeps content feeling fresh in different areas

[sharp cave]

I can understand stand if these theoretical venator arrows had some passive that made them slightly better than dragon

[sharp cave]

Ok and why?

[lament ridge]

Yeah makes sense, I suppose it depends. I understood it as the dulled items becoming rune for example signifies that rune equipment made its way there ages ago but has lost its shine, dragon arrowtips would be the same then

So if runite is just available in Vampyrium that reasoning goes out the window I suppose

[leaden anchor]

Not gonna get into the weeds of discussing droptable balance as it's very hard to discuss a single drop in isolation without context of what the rest of the droptable does, but appreciate all the input on thematics!

[minor whale]

Or the monsters there don't typically use rune for things and humans don't really exist there at all

[leaden anchor]

We actually discussed this in the office! Runite does make sense to exist in Vampyrium the same way Iron exists on Mars. Minerals are universal, plants/organic-matter are not

[meager flame]

but yeah thematically i would've kind of expected to just have an entirely new arrow since we're on another world in a way

[cloud iron]

exactly

[meager flame]

but it also makes sense that we could take things from one to add to items from another

[minor whale]

Dragons flatly not existing in Vampyrium is solid
But different resources across planes can make sense, even if they aren't used by the inhabitants of the area

[cloud iron]

something that leeches hp from monsters around the rest of the game

[meager flame]

thats more of an economic decision than a thematic one i think

[chrome lantern]

People might hate this as much as “Lobster cage” but could consider renaming all dragon arrows to “talon arrows” and then just making them come from Vampyrium as talons as well

[meager flame]

you could even more cleanly cover the thematics of the teeth > dragon arrow pipeline by having you trade the teeth to an npc

that knows you'd rather have dragon arrowtips

etc

[lament ridge]

Interesting and makes sense!
I honestly always just assumed dragon arrowtips were "orikalkum", not straight up dragon talons. I think you can justify either option but I'm glad it's approached with enough care

[leaden anchor]

Genuinely that's all we're trying to gauge, whether people would be cool with something like this

[minor whale]

I don't think we need to make a whole new class of arrow tip to powercreep on top of the seeker shafts and the necklace
Let them be traded 1:1 is a very solid idea

[leaden anchor]

Yeah I thought the same but it turns out no, unlike every other dragon item they are made of dragon talons

[minor whale]

There's a movie about people hunting vampires and getting money for turning in teeth, could be a funny thing in game

A pawn shop that takes your vampire teeth and gives you dragon talons in return

[cloud iron]

If that's the question, would it be fine to rename dragon arrows to talon arrows. I bet if it were put to vote it'd get enough no votes to not pass

[still sundial]

I am not sure that's ever been confirmed before, thanks for the cool lore

[hard axle]

Ultimately, not a huge fan. I’d rather introduce a Vampiric Dragon

[sharp cave]

Or reduce the minimum hit of the seeker shafts to +2 and add an extra +1 to "venator" tipped arrows?

[chrome lantern]

[[Dragon arrowtips]]

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Dragon_arrowtips

[chrome lantern]

It is in the examine text

[hard axle]

This would be better yeah

[still sundial]

oh nvm then lmao

[hard axle]

Every vampire hunter move involves trading fangs or heads

For currency or items

[leaden anchor]

Dragonkin out here on Vampyrium

[minor whale]

Why would we want to split seekers into another 2 items
That's entirely outside the scope of this and I think they'd rather just call them dragon arrows at this point LMAO

[hard axle]

Dragonbane needs as much loving as Demonbane - give me DHL 3.0

[minor whale]

Than have to make a new arrow tip and effect for the tips separate from the shafts

[meager flame]

i think there probably is a world where the new arrows were just actually new arrows

[still sundial]

I think this is the best solution if you want to satisfy both gameplay and lore

[sharp cave]

What?

[meager flame]

that didn't retroactively get added to the old ones

[hard axle]

Venator seeker arrow and dragon seeker arrow

Use brain

[minor whale]

They explicitly said they don't want to bloat the GE and item database by adding in even more arrow types

[meager flame]

thats more of a economic thing though because then you're probably worried about like

okay if we replace dragon arrows how much gp/hr did xyz content just lose since now these aren't the best

[minor whale]

Splitting the heads would be identical number of new slots as making the Venator teeth into new arrows but same stats as dragon

Which they don't want to do

[meager flame]

and you know the impact might not even be that crazy

some people probably have a stack of dragon arrows they wouldn't be too happy with though

[hard axle]

They can Ligma

[sharp cave]

Right so rather than doing this contrived dance just buff all the other sources of dragon arrows??

[floral blaze]

Smh ironman wanting easyscape updates

[lament ridge]

I like the idea of the trader, can make that fit thematically as well. It doesn't even have to be someone in Vampyrium, it could be some sort of monster hunter in a place we already know (if the idea of someone in Vampyrium having a large stock of dragon talons is a thematic issue)

[meager flame]

tbh dragon arrows are uncommon enough that i dont think it would really hit any content too hard if they got devalued

it would mostly be about the people that have a huge stack of arrows lol

[minor whale]

What

Nobody wants that lmao

Except irons I guess

[chrome lantern]

Dragon arrows are already pretty cheap tbh

Per shot

[meager flame]

and yeah tbh i'd rather get a fun method to get arrows instead of simply buffing arrow rates from everything

[chrome lantern]

Save 80%

Pretty low gp/hr cost

[minor whale]

This has nothing to do with gathering dragon arrows outside of Rice wanting to thematically make the Venator teeth count as dragon arrowtips

[lament ridge]

It also just makes sense that the new area with the ranged bis item and the arrow upgrade also has bis arrows as drops

[minor whale]

Exactly

[meager flame]

but yeah i think trading teeth for arrows with an npc that knows what you really want is probably the best thematic

it makes sense and there is no weird like

i used a chisel on this things teeth and surprise now they're dragon arrowtips

[lament ridge]

And you dont have to worry about losing the nostalgia of dragon arrows by calling it something else

[oblique mesa]

Oh that would have been thematic, trading venator teeth for dragon talons.
Since the teeth dont exist in the normal overworld and the dragon talons dont exist in the vampireland

Surely some NPC could loredump about them and trade you

[meager flame]

it would've also made complete sense if the new arrows were just entirely new too

but i dont think thats what they were trying to do

[restive sapphire]

so min hits on seeker arrows roll between 3 and max rather than 1 and 2 hits into 3 right

[zenith pike]

latter

[lament ridge]

Some sort of monster hunter NPC in Morytania might make sense, who has access to dragon talons and a deep hatred of everything vampyre

[sharp cave]

They are gonna go down either way no??

[meager flame]

ya they dont even have to really make the item dragon talons just make the npc talk about it somehow

and give you the arrowtips

[sharp cave]

If i can farm out 1000 venator teeth in a day and convert them to arrowtips at an npc?

[meager flame]

i dont believe they're intended to be dropping that often

[lament ridge]

Down a bit sure, but no different than a new monster dropping small quantities of dragon arrowtips directly

[zenith pike]

depends on the conversion rate

[lament ridge]

Like plenty already do

[meager flame]

its mostly just about them wanting to add dragon arrowtips to drop tables but finding a thematic way to do that

[minor whale]

Yeah they aren't trying to make a new dragon arrowtip farm

[restive sapphire]

ik for this instance it would be crazy powercreep for an arrow slot to have this much power but i think it's disappointing for min hits to have low impact if that's how it's calculated in the future

[chrome lantern]

The latter. Rolls as normal, then any hit 1 or 2 becomes 3, as clarified in this blog

[minor whale]

It's identical to them doing a question like

"Should we make arrow tips with the same stats as dragon arrowtips drop from Fortis Colosseum called Centurion Tips"

[median pine]

Whats the data of d arrows going into the game? i wouldn't mind if the price sinks.

[minor whale]

They're not like a oooh go farm dragon arrowtips from here thing it's to just thematically spice it up

[obsidian venture]

Making me grind another 100k stack

[minor whale]

Dragon arrows are 3m/day trade volume

[chrome lantern]

I find it interesting that people ask this because we’ve had plenty of new content drop dragon arrowtips without crashing their prices

[minor whale]

Exactly dude they are not understanding lmao

[lament ridge]

I think it's just mostly people taking the blog words and speculating that it will be easily farmable

[median pine]

Cant check atm but what was in 5 years ago?

[meager flame]

if you look at the price of dragon arrows just know they're fine lol

[minor whale]

Now irons are gonna be in a tizzy thinking they were promised a new dragon arrow tip source!!

[meager flame]

we blew through years of us having no reason to shoot them and then kept going as we added more drop sources

[lament ridge]

I'm saving all my dragon arrows for OSOSRS anyway

[minor whale]

700k

[lament ridge]

Can never be too sure that I'll need them

[meager flame]

they're kind of like potions in oblivion

they don't actually matter but people save them thinking they'll use them when it counts

[gaunt minnow]

I’m just seeing how big I can make my stack

On about 50k d darts atm

[minor whale]

And irons freaking out that they can't use them at every single place without having to go farm more

[sharp cave]

Dunno they just added them to frost dragons table

[meager flame]

ammy arrows are close enough that you wouldn't even know which you had if you weren't looking for it

[sharp cave]

Along with superior dragon bones

[minor whale]

Yes
And frost dragons
Are dragons

[chrome lantern]

Barely

[minor whale]

So they are... thematically sensible

[placid shadow]

i personally like that dragon arrows/tips come from lots of places, but there isn't really anywhere you can purposely farm them

[sharp cave]

Yeah they are made of ice?

[obsidian venture]

@leaden anchor Not sure if you’re able to answer this but I might as well ask because it’s always a constant topic.

1. Is Jagex satisfied with the current rates of Dragon Ammo?

2. Would the new addition be similar to current rates, or a buff for irons?

[restive sapphire]

also them saying "we expect future updates to add power to other styles"
+3 scythe max hits is coming surely

[meager flame]

i actually hate this

[placid shadow]

i just wish we could get more of them

[sharp cave]

Make them drop frost dragon talons instead that we take to an npc

[meager flame]

but its kind of a later game thing

i think that getting dragon arrows from various things that you're doing works

[chrome lantern]

Surely we get the re-addressal of the shadow that they promised a year ago “before making any other meaningful changes to magic”

[meager flame]

but i think it stops working when you start running out of reasons to do the content that drops the dragon arrows because they're not good enough to be worth going back and farming exclusively

[minor whale]

Dude you are thinking too hard
They are dragons so they drop dragon items and they also are near other dragons and are from Gielinor where they can fight and hold other dragons

They breath fire ffs

Versus monsters in a land that doesn't have dragons

[sharp cave]

I mean sure I think they messed up frost dragons thematically thats all

[minor whale]

If random dragons started dropping vampire teeth I'd say wtf to that too

[restive sapphire]

surely that is why summer sweep up will be before blood moon

[chrome lantern]

So many people talking about dragons but nobody's bringing up the impact of dn

[meager flame]

i mean we probably wouldn't really tbh lol

[sharp cave]

I guess its only tangentially related

[meager flame]

plenty of npcs drop things that dont even sort of make sense

and by plenty i mean basically all of them

[restive sapphire]

or summer sweep up will have proposals no one likes so they need another month to rework it pushing back blood moon even more

[minor whale]

Yeah but making these make sense thematically is no reason to have a huge debate like this lmao

Jagex goes hey we want these to be a fun themed item that converts into something useable

[lament ridge]

That's what Mod Rice said though, there are plenty of thematic drop issues, and the best time to fix it would be yesterday, which is impossible so best to do it now and not further add to it

[minor whale]

And some people are freaking the fuck out or wanting to buff them to be something else lmao

[meager flame]

yeah i think they can get what they want with the npc you trade teeth to and it just offers you a selection of things you'd care for

basically the various forms of dragon ammo

people trading for things from a new world seems like a pretty safe bet

[ember grove]

I think they could do some lore stuff with, idk, Venators are the evolved Vampyrium equivalent of the creatures that Dragons were shaped from in the first place

but it'd be off to just ignore the question of why non-dragons are dropping dragon teeth and claws entirely

[minor whale]

Exactly

[lament ridge]

Only if they consider the venator teeth a currency to trade with like tokkul, which affects absolutely nobody but that one person who plays without currencies

[minor whale]

Like Pacific Rim having Kaiju which have a black market

You go in and get resources from the dead creature and trade it for useful stuff for you to a creepy guy who is obsessed with Vampires

[ember grove]

that dude is annoying and advocates constantly to change content to remove his restrictions so I like when he suffers lol

[minor whale]

And as a joke they make the NPC chat head have hilariously bad fake vampire teeth

[median pine]

So 3x and lower value. Too many hoarders I guess

[lament ridge]

Put the NPC Van Smellsing on the Port Phasmatys docks immediately to trade vampyre teeth with

[ember grove]

Alternatively, someone in the myth's guild is fascinated by the other world we're visiting and has a large supply of dragon bits from a lifetime of adventuring

[minor whale]

Yeah just something to trade them in

Instead of just converting them ourselves

Untradeable on their own, needs ds2 completion to trade them in for something useful...

That would be solid

[lament ridge]

Oh shit yeah, a monster hunter in the myths guild sounds like a great shout

[restive sapphire]

a part of me thinks thematically consistent dragon ammo shouldn't be limited to just vampyrium when other endgame content comes out
like i enjoy the trading in venator to a trader idea and it could work for other exotic enemies that are released later
then it loops back around to "this is just another way of str8 up dragon arrow/dart tips dropping"

[sharp cave]

Why add on ds2 lol

[minor whale]

Because it's in the myths guild

[meager flame]

thats the thing though thats exactly what they're trying to get

they want to drop dragon arrows but want it to be thematic

[minor whale]

Where there's a person who has killed a shitload of dragons to trade them in for has stockpiled

[lament ridge]

I dont think that was ever the point though, it's just adding an NPC that drops arrowtips but it has to make some thematic sense. Not make it a completely meta way of farming dragon arrows

[meager flame]

like its not the arrow farm they're just trying to figure out an in world reason that you'd obtain them by doing this content

[minor whale]

People are making this out to be something way bigger than the JMods intended because of unfortunate wording in the blog

[sharp cave]

Why does the npcs have to be in thr guild...

Ugh

[minor whale]

Why not
You completed Blood Moon Rises surely you can complete DS2

[chrome lantern]

^

[meager flame]

it could also be as simple as like

[chrome lantern]

Oziach xd

[meager flame]

putting a bunch of dead npcs that came to explore with you around

[lament ridge]

I mean it doesnt have to be, it just sounds like it makes sense to have legendary monster hunter NPC in the myths guild

[meager flame]

and some of the drops are things from them

[minor whale]

Yup

[meager flame]

you could explain away a lot of drops like that

[minor whale]

The myths guild is the guild for people who have saved the world pretty much

[ember grove]

idk the myth's guild seemed fun because it's dragon stuff and you do ds2 to get in, plus there's already like 5 other legendary adventurers hanging out there

[sharp cave]

I think it makes more sense for them to be in the field

Rather than sitting in the guild

[minor whale]

Makes sense the guy who's slain enough dragons for infinite trading in would be at the Myths Guild

[ember grove]

it could be some random dude in the legend's guild or whatever the thematics were what came to mind

[lament ridge]

Maybe but that heavily depends on what Vampyrium is like, if it's a "you're the first human to arrive here in centuries" type of story or not

[minor whale]

I think it will be

[meager flame]

could just send you to the mory slayer master if we have to pick an npc in the area that may have killed dragons

[minor whale]

Vampyrium is thought to not be able to return to in current lore

[median pine]

In terms on lore. You can put it as a vault with vampires treasures. You can guise it like that istead of vampire teeth.

Monster can drop keys etc.

[minor whale]

So Drakan has a way back

[lament ridge]

Yeah that's what I would guess too

[meager flame]

yeah but then the story ends and you're there

just say they came in with you

[lament ridge]

Maybe he has finally unlocked the secrets of the blood altar

I should play more RS3 to actually do the questlines there, I'm too much of a lore loser not to

[meager flame]

its pretty easy to come up with tons of reasons honestly i still like the npc trader though

[sharp cave]

Just put some dragons near the venators

Problem solved

[obsidian venture]

[restive sapphire]

99% chance the story will end with vampyres resettling on vampyrium to solve the blood dilemma
in rs3 apparently ||vanescula destroys the portal back to vampyrium bc she really wants to leave it behind apparently she'd rather continue oppressing humans and drinking their blood||

[minor whale]

They don't want dragons in Vampyrium because it's a closed off realm where dragons have never been nor dragonkin

Vampyrium has been closed for thousands of years

[sharp cave]

We are the key the dragonki needed

Yes ds2 tie in!!

[minor whale]

JMods go "here's some theme" and people want to say fuck the theme gimme dragon arrowtips

[obsidian venture]

Let irons grind for bis upkeep

🫡

[tacit wharf]

so the tldr is people upset that people can get darrow/darts from venator fangs/teeth?

[obsidian venture]

Moreso having 2 of the same thing

[minor whale]

I actually don't know why people are upset really

People originally thought it was an ironman method for Darrows

[obsidian venture]

I’m not opposed to the new idea if it’s balanced

They did word it poorly

[chrome lantern]

The tl;dr is that Jagex wants to make dragon arrows drop in some unknown quantity from creates that are in a realm that has never known dragons

[obsidian venture]

And I’m not sure they bothered to update it

[chrome lantern]

And they wrote a very poor description

[minor whale]

But then JMod said actually blog is badly worded it's just thematic dragon arrowtips but in a place with no dragons

[tacit wharf]

[meager flame]

tbh i almost wish seeker arrows were just entirely separate arrows on their own

[tacit wharf]

dragon arrow tips adjacent

ahh yes, want to make another 100k pink arrows

[obsidian venture]

Either way Amy seeker arrows are basically dragon arrows

Gz irons

[tacit wharf]

shhh

dont tell tassili

[chrome lantern]

What about all the rune seeker arrows people are going to make!

[obsidian venture]

O mb

[meager flame]

yeah i'd have rather been done with amy and dragon and just had a reasonably balanced way to go get seeker arrows

[lament ridge]

Sure, but not quite dragon seeker arrows

[chrome lantern]

He knows and insists it just widens the gap further somehow

[tacit wharf]

i know

[obsidian venture]

Amy to Amy seeker > dragon to dragon seeker

Roughly

[meager flame]

yeah i mean at the end of the day he just views it as wanting to go grind for the best stuff

so it doesn't even really matter how close they are

he just wants to get the best arrows not second best

which i get it honestly

its not worth going for dragon arrows explicitly and getting amy ammo is

not gameplay

there totally could be something cool in there that just doesn't exist yet

[obsidian venture]

Yeah I get wanting to use bis

But it is an upkeep gamemode

[minor whale]

Yep

[meager flame]

yeah i dont think anyone is suggesting not having to upkeep arrows

its just which arrows and if theres actually a worthwhile way to do it

[ionic tartan]

Jagex could just go the lore route and rename "dragon" to "Orikalkum" (https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Orikalkum).

[chrome lantern]

I mean that doesn't work here because dragon arrows are explicitly talons

[tacit wharf]

but thats metal

is a dragon dart tip a dragon tooth then?

wiki doesnt say

[lament ridge]

Just a smaller dragon talon I suppose, it's not red metal at least

Pinky talons

[ionic tartan]

Good point, maybe the talon could be made of the same "something" that a creature from Vampyrium also has.

[minor whale]

Rice explicitly said the arrows are talons so I think the tips are teeth

[chrome lantern]

The examine ext for the darts/tips doesn't actually say

But the arrowtips explicitly do

[minor whale]

The only 2 dragon items that aren't red are the arrowtips and dart tips
Arrowtips in the examine text are talons and are the same color as darts

[tacit wharf]

ya thats why i was wondering

[ionic tartan]

They just need to have lore that says the arrowtips from vampyrium creature is made from some material that dragon talons are also made of.

[lament ridge]

You mean like it'd just be made of Super-Keratin, and venator nails just happen to also be made of Super-Keratin?

Ehh not crazy but then you get back to the point that you'd either have to rename both arrows to "talon arrows" or you'd have separate stacks for no real reason other than thematics

I still like the NPC to trade with better in that case

[tacit wharf]

make it a mini-quest u have to complete, that requires you to run around to 10 people and help them so they can help you, then call it 1 little favor

so that u can make them into "dragon ammo"

[lament ridge]

Surely you'd call the miniquest "An Eye for an Eye..." so afterwards you can trade a Tooth for a Tooth

[tacit wharf]

not bad

[true talon]

I think it’s a great idea, I ask to try to adopt a system like amyethyst mining or antler bolts, so you have a sustainable source to farm consumables like arrows/darts. do not do another rng drop that can be converted.

If you seen the d bone conversion ideas of the past, use something like that but apply it to vampire monster remains

[minor whale]

https://tenor.com/view/water-spray-stop-sprinkle-water-gif-11895255

[tribal light]

Can something please drop vials of blood 🙂

[ember token]

something to realize regarding what theyre doing with the venator stuff making arrows, it's far from the first time a monster would be dropping an item that's not really what the item is but rather an equivalent

like do you think vorkath and zulrah are really dropping fresh grapes

[tacit wharf]

what, u mean those arent fresh grapes

[torpid delta]

clearly they're an IOU for fresh grapes

[meager flame]

Yeah straight up every drop table in the game more or less is unhinged

I personally wouldn’t care about it but jagex does this time

[oblique mesa]

Its very soulful and endearing that Mod Rice seems to care this much about the setting and themes 🥺

[lament ridge]

I like it, especially for a completely new area that's canonically very separated from everything else

Like you can argue they threw in a barrel of grapes to appease Zulrah, or Vorkath swallowed a Fremmenik longboat with food supplies, it doesn't really work for a world that is completely cut off from the mainland (or was, until recently)

[meager flame]

I think it’s neat in a way but also I think it would be exceptionally difficult to maintain

Like

Imagine you actually had to make a thematic drop table for everything and an in world reason for each drop that doesn’t really make sense

Idk how practical it really is

[median wing]

we should launch a full investigation for each drop table

as to how much it fits thematically

[meager flame]

Maybe just this time though since it’s a new world

[lament ridge]

Yeah fair, I think it's just a bit of a separate thing because it's so cut off from the rest

Yeah exactly

With any other item you can make up some reason because at least it exists in the same world

[austere mulch]

Vampire remains making dragon ammo is crazy lmao

[ember token]

by bucket of sap and blood vial presumably it means bloodsap and vials of blood

[true talon]

It could also be traded to a npc who is a dragon hunter. There are many ways to go about this.

As long as it’s a 100% drop convetable to d ammo in someway Idc

Like moonlight antler bolts are same str as d arrows and i can farm those if i want.

[austere mulch]

You’d also have to accept that you’re guaranteed to doom the entire market for them. Depends how you weigh out the pros and cons

[true talon]

So a similar system would be cool

[hard axle]

Alright, 10 dragon arrows per hour guaranteed 💀

I’m the genie that gives you the worst version of what you ask for

[true talon]

Not really.

[restive storm]

Right, but this is one of the biggest problems in the entire game imo, pvm bosses just poop out resources they have literally no business dropping in quantities that if you mentioned it to someone when osrs was released they’d think you’re joking

[austere mulch]

If you can get dragon arrows and darts at a reasonable pace per hour from skilling, yes really

It will immediately become a hotspot for botting

[reef laurel]

As a giga late game iron with somewhat decent pbs at every boss and 5x green logs I am not looking to have wasted bank spaces and or multiple inventory layouts with separate different plugins to fit a “theme.”

Think if this is the approach you guys wanted to take you should have added this to frost dragons with sailing.

[ember token]

its not really what im talking about, i'm talking thematically what the drops actually would be in-universe

[true talon]

Nah it won’t

Also why does a consumable arrow market need protecting?

[austere mulch]

If you’re getting 1k dragon arrows per hour, or darts, that’s several mil/hr at current prices

Yes, you will

[hard axle]

I’m already annoyed by capes having different slots for locked, unlocked

[austere mulch]

Again, depends where you weigh the pros and cons

[true talon]

You don’t care about rune arrows or amethyst arrows which are basically alch value

[austere mulch]

They also aren’t BIS

[hard axle]

And that’s because Jagex fucked up

We’re telling them not to fuck it up again

[austere mulch]

And yeah, Jagex did them dirty LOL

[true talon]

They used to be

[austere mulch]

Amethyst never were

[true talon]

Amyethyst was added as a fix to the d arrows issue

[austere mulch]

Dragon arrows been around since osrs release

[meager flame]

Tbf I don’t really think the arrow market is a big deal

[austere mulch]

So rune never was either

[true talon]

If they just provided better d arrows method we wouldn’t need amyethyst

[hard axle]

Dumbasses asked for this excess supply, Jagex obliged because too may bitches

[meager flame]

They don’t drop often enough from anything to actually be the value drops

[austere mulch]

If they provided a dragon arrow method equal to the current amethyst method, dragon arrows would be the price of amethyst arrows

[hard axle]

For those people, deiron honestly

It’s the same shit as people wanting buyable dragon arrowtips and potions and secondaries in ships 😭

[true talon]

I made 372m from 16.5k frost dragons of that amount 4m was from arrow tips

[meager flame]

They’re just a weirdly unavailable in a way but drop here and there enough to hold a reasonable value without being a big deal on any table

[austere mulch]

Love that for you

Or hate it

Depends

[meager flame]

So like

If that market got executed tomorrow the people with stacks of them already would be sad

[reef laurel]

I don’t really struggle with dragon ammo ngl I use it sparingly, rune is barely less dps like 9% less in full void doesn’t make a difference at doom is 2 less hits than amethyst cba for the 300 hour amethyst grind anyways. The only thing I’d really say it’s important for is inferno and colosseum grinding in which case dragon darts can be an issue but ToA prints darts still but it’s also a situation of “I don’t want to do more ToA when I’m out of darts” and it would be nice to use dragon ammo for slayer skipping etc

[meager flame]

But no activity would tank

[true talon]

If your an end game acc, you should have access to end game consumables and currently only d ammo is the roadblock

So they are fixing it

[austere mulch]

Well, you do have access to them because there are ways to farm them via pvm

You are just advocating for easier access

[tacit wharf]

why do u guys always do this with darrow discussions, we all know where tassili stands

[true talon]

No I advocating for farmable supply, not rng drops

[restive storm]

Cuz ppl get annoyed we make the game worse constantly to make irons lives easier and easier

[reef laurel]

The only time I ever in my life felt compelled to use dragon arrows was when going for a speed ca if we take a boss like hydra for example tho your average kill is like 1 tbow greater with rune arrows vs dragon arrows it’s really not that deep people just get caught up with numbers on a calculator

[hard axle]

@leaden anchor avoid adding venator arrows and also remove the poison variants

[austere mulch]

easier access

[meager flame]

Truth is that it’s important for nothing ever lol

[true talon]

Brother it’s not about if you need them, it’s about having access to them.

[meager flame]

At least in the context of arrows

[reef laurel]

Fletching mini game?

[meager flame]

It’s never worth farming and it never mattered if you had amy arrows

[reef laurel]

You get like 100 d arrows an hour

[true talon]

That shit is ass

[reef laurel]

It’s really not that ass

[austere mulch]

You get a disgusting amount of dragon arrows from colosseum tbh

[reef laurel]

Also yeah ^ if you actually grind it. Same with cox if you do megascales you can expect like 2k-3k arrows at a time

[true talon]

As someone with 95 kc I disagree, they don’t show up that often.

[meager flame]

It’s explicitly about people wanting to farm bis but there not being a reasonably time efficient method to do it

Like how we’re saying colo is a lot of d arrows

[hard axle]

And that’s the problem we have with Tass: he’s not going to be happy until it’s 500-1000 per hour, which will annihilate the cost.

[meager flame]

No it’s not that’s garbage compared to basically all relevant supplies in the game

Straight up lol

It’s not worth it

[austere mulch]

Drop rates disagree with you

[hard axle]

Muspah essence are worthless because they catered to heart upgrading instead of making it a 100 hour grind lol

[true talon]

That’s not a good rate

[hard axle]

Yes it is?

[meager flame]

It will never be worth going for that rate

[whole swift]

needs to be 1/2 all waves (sarcasm)

[reef laurel]

Well I’m more-so saying that it could have been done or added with frost dragons or whatever else. I think people fail to see that if you add a method to get 500 d arrows/hour you’ve essentially bricked anyone who spent the 300 hours to unlock amethyst.

[true talon]

1/46 on 11, 1/50 on 10, 1/61 on 7

[meager flame]

The only sane response to those numbers is to afk ammy arrows

[hard axle]

No one would mine amethyst, yup

[true talon]

Who cares

[hard axle]

I do

[true talon]

92 mining is also not 300 hours

[reef laurel]

Also I don’t think people should be so upset over irons lives being made easier it’s literally a time commitment game you are basically saying peoples lives are worthless and you don’t value their time by saying irons should have ridiculously long grinds

[meager flame]

It’s okay if you’re doing colo for other reasons and you get some arrows on the side

[reef laurel]

But I really don’t think arrows should take additional bank spaces and bank layouts to accommodate for

[meager flame]

But when you don’t have another reason to be there it’s over

[restive storm]

That’s not true at all cuz it can adversely affect mains lol

[reef laurel]

How so

[true talon]

If you got bank space issues your a hoarder

[tacit wharf]

that is teh game mode, if u dont like it, go play a main

[austere mulch]

That’s about 80 arrows per run on average

[hard axle]

long grinds are fine, but the problem always is “hey, let me just buy this from shop for gp” or make it super easy to get in mass, while also nuking reason to skill

[restive storm]

What if you got a stack of 1m d arrows that then becomes worthless? Cuz we gotta make irons lives easier because they don’t actually enjoy iron man mode

[austere mulch]

280+ arrows/hour

[true talon]

It’s not about the amount, it’s about the rng involved.

[hard axle]

I’ve been against oathplate ever since they made it obvious how easy it is to kill base Yama

[austere mulch]

Tons of arrows on rate for log

[hard axle]

This is runescape

Mfer

Lmaooo

[reef laurel]

Dragon arrow prices go down to 500 gp now what? Your stack of white arrows is worth less? I don’t get what you’re saying. It’s not like you’re farming or hoarding them as a valuable resource as is on a main you can go kill vorkath for 30 minutes and buy 1000 dragon arrows

[reef laurel]

This is a very ass mindset

And you are shit at ragebaiting

The fact I get muted when you say stuff like this is depressing

[tacit wharf]

im not ragebaiting

[restive storm]

Yeah that’s bad for every main with a stack of arrows, cba nuking value to make ironmemes just afk all their supplies

[true talon]

Just think of the positives, you never have to hear me say anything about d arrows again!!!!

[median wing]

we should let mains only trade items on the weekends so they can empathize with irons

[austere mulch]

That’s like saying if you have a 1/3 chance to get 250 arrows, that’s not farmable because it’s rng

That’s exactly what this equates to btw

[tacit wharf]

sick and tired of the i have 5 wives, 23 kids and 14 jobs andy's trying to pussifiy my gamemode

[austere mulch]

About a 1/3 chance to get 250 arrows or more per run

[meager flame]

It’s not that you can’t farm to get arrows you can do any number of things to produce them

The question is if you should do that

Is this sane am I wasting my time etc

[reef laurel]

So you think someone should have to give away 30 days of their life and time with family, friends, work, just so you can fit your idea of “you picked the game mode to play.” Ammunition for a ranged weapon that is constantly deleted from the game really shouldn’t have much value so if that’s your concern idk what to tell you.

[meager flame]

And if you’re exclusively farming anything in this entire game for dragon arrows

[restive storm]

All irons are wasting their time that’s the entire point of the game mode

[meager flame]

You are wasting your time

[lament ridge]

Just use amethyst arrows then? They're fine

[reef laurel]

What matters more is the weapon and the gear and guess what tbow is 1.7b and a 1,000 hour grind

[median wing]

what if we can work at a a nail salon in darkmeyer to farm venator nails

[reef laurel]

And amethyst arrows are a 300 hour grind

[tacit wharf]

rs by default is an rng based grindfest, and ironman even more so and UIM even more so than that

if u dont like grinding, go main and sit down

[true talon]

People use amyethyst because the time to rng grind d arrows is not worth it

[meager flame]

Like it’s not even close

[austere mulch]

Min hit on seeker arrows benefits lower tier ammo more than higher tier ammo because more rolls below 3 btw

So seeker closes the gap between Amy and dragon

[true talon]

You can make 2k amyethyst arrows an hour fairly easy

[meager flame]

Amy arrows are good and free to obtain at a rate that makes d arrow farm nonsense

It just is what it is

[tacit wharf]

jagex made amethyst for you, for that exact reason

[reef laurel]

Never said I don’t like grinding again you put words in people’s mouth

[median wing]

also why cant we make our own purple sweets

[lament ridge]

Yeah idk what game you signed up for, this is like the people that boot up dark souls and then complain there is no story difficulty setting

[austere mulch]

Yeah wtf we have all the resources to make sugar

Why can’t I make sweets

[tacit wharf]

which is why i didnt tag u in it, as yr not the only one talking

[reef laurel]

I like to grind enjoyable and meaningful content like raids and inferno and colosseum and I think you should have to spend less time preparing for those than you do actually running them which at the moment on an iron it’s about 4x more time to prepare for ToB at a max efficiency level than it is to actually run it.

[meager flame]

If getting the arrows actually made any sense this would probably fit better

[hard axle]

So I’m working on the 10M dragon arrow grind and the gp isn’t so much the issue, but the fact Tass always wants to nuke amethyst from existence and make bis dumb easy to mass gather.

And he’s not the only one. These are the same group of people who weren’t happy with 13k/hr blood runes at true blood altar, so arrows are going to have to be buyable or mass gather able, and I hate what they did to Muspah essence.

[reef laurel]

And that’s just ToB for example, ToA is worse and cox is chill yeah but cox is also ass

[restive storm]

Just Deiron bro the game mode isn’t for you

[meager flame]

Problem is it doesn’t make sense you simply shouldn’t be doing that

It’s poorly balanced

[lament ridge]

The problem is you want to play a bronzeman, the problem isnt that ironman is not enough like bronzeman

[umbral summit]

if a method guaranteed one (1) dragon arrowtip every 1-2 minutes, would you be satisfied?

[meager flame]

No

[hard axle]

It’s just so contradictory for Tass to shit on mains, only for him to want exactly what mains have.

[meager flame]

The problem is that the alternative arrows are very nearly as good and so plentiful that obtaining the better arrows is a complete waste of your time

[hard axle]

Exactly. I’ve said this several times but 99% of irons are better off bronzemaining if it was an official game mode.

[hard axle]

And that shouldn’t be a justification to buff buff buff imo

[austere mulch]

For the record

On a zero def target with high magic level (tbow cap)

Amy seeker arrows are stronger than regular dragon arrows in max gear

So what’s the issue

[hard axle]

It’s like saying Bowfa is 1/10 the hour of tbow, so tbow should be10x as strong

[meager flame]

Maybe not always but that’s the state of dragon arrows

[hard axle]

I hate that mentality

[lament ridge]

That is the point? That way you're not reliant on getting d arrow drops, but it's a nice bonus when you do have them

[tacit wharf]

bronzeman is not a real game mode, but we'll table that for later discussion

[hard axle]

It should be for these type of players

[meager flame]

And people are instead asking for a balanced and interesting way to get them

[restive storm]

I just don’t get why these people even play iron man if they hate all the prep they have to do for pvm. I blame jagex tho tbh for turning a whole game into pvmsccape where the bosses drop all resources needed to do the content anyway

[meager flame]

As opposed to simply ignoring them to afk boring amy arrows

[median wing]

thats so funny, they add amethyst to cater to irons and then irons use it to argue for more convenient dragon arrows

[lament ridge]

They're not though, they're asking for a way to get 10x as many an hour as they do now lmao, just thinly veiled

[reef laurel]

I don’t think any of you actually play or have an ultra giga late game iron so your opinions and thoughts are a bit null and void personally also I think half of you have your heads up your ass to say things like “irons deserves it hard.” An iron does 1,000 hours for a tbow and doesn’t deserve to fire the best ammo out of it? While mains can take the irit they got from cox and trade it in for dragon arrows like paper. The fact at the end of the day is irons need to grind for everything and anything no matter what. They can’t buy anything. But you can! No one said add a dragon arrow shop. So you really can’t relate. I’m not saying that dragon arrows should come from vampires especially not at a rate of 500/hour although it would be really nice. I’m all for ammo acquisition changes even if I don’t use it much but truthfully the idea of breaking dragon equipment or bones down to make dragon supplies should have been implemented with sailing and frost dragons or long before that, they even added a forge there but for cannonballs instead.

[jagged marsh]

I'm gonna go ironman mode to get my vbow. Just grind out the shards myself

[meager flame]

Idk I think it’s pretty obvious it’s not in a great state currently

[austere mulch]

0 def maiden max range:
Dragon seeker: 14.16
Amy seeker: 13.83
Dragon arrows: 13.66

In void:
dragon seeker: 14.95
Amy seeker: 14.63
Dragon: 14.45

Seeker arrows are literally the answer for tasseli

[jagged marsh]

Yummy

[tacit wharf]

say less

[jagged marsh]

Waiter more dps please

[meager flame]

Cheap enough that it’s an irrelevant point of balance for mains and poorly designed for irons to generally be ignored

[restive storm]

Not reading all that but yeah I quit my end game iron years and years ago when they made the game centered only around pvm

[median wing]

ok u convinced me, they should let irons transform to a normie account

[lament ridge]

I like that the argument is apparently having a giga ultra late game iron but I need my time to be respected so I want to get more supplies for less effort

[meager flame]

I just don’t see anything positive happening with it in any game mode

[reef laurel]

So you think that because you had it hard others should have it hard too? You’d be a great dad. I’ve got a 30b bank on my iron bro don’t say I don’t know shit about the grind.

[tacit wharf]

they can go green helm

[austere mulch]

Even on zuk off task, Amy seeker arrows are about 5% better than dragon arrows @true talon

Are you not satisfied?

And dragon seeker are only 2.3% better than amy seeker

[jagged marsh]

They can

[oblique mesa]

https://tenor.com/view/joke-missed-over-your-head-gif-8604199

[jagged marsh]

Oh I thought they removed it

They removed the lock in button I think

[hard axle]

I do and it’s closer to 300 hours for tbow now I do most of the prep and afk skilling for the homies.

When it comes down to amount of consistent arrows per hour, that’s where many disagree because Colo gives a decent amount, as you’ve agreed. But folks like Tass will push that lever more and more until it’s 300-400-500 per hour.

That’s how we ends up with Scar Essence.

[restive storm]

Scar essence should still be removed tbh

[lament ridge]

That's not the point. The point is that the purpose of dragon arrows is that they're a small dps upgrade but expensive, because they're rare. There is already plenty to fill the dps gap, you dont have to just give them out like candy just because you dont think amethyst arrows are good enough

[restive storm]

Disgusting “content”

[meager flame]

The problem with colo rates is that it’s actually not enough efficiently and most people don’t do colo that fast or often

[tacit wharf]

instead of managing his d arrows, a certain person thinks that he can use them as if they never run out, which is just not a thing in ironman mode

[restive storm]

I’d suggest using an Ava’s device so you lose less

[reef laurel]

I agree that Colo gives a lot. So does cox. So does CG. But I also think that people shouldn’t need to keep doing content they’ve already finished once they finished it just to upkeep supplies outside of skilling, if I’m being honest.

[hard axle]

And making dragon arrow TOO COMMON is another risk, like we mentioned earlier.

[meager flame]

Well they don’t have to

In fact they shouldn’t be doing that

[hard axle]

It’s like how oathplate basically replaced Torva entirely for iron 95% of the time.

[austere mulch]

Lmao even rune seeker arrows are better than current dragon arrows

There’s zero reason to complain in 2026

[meager flame]

That’s a huge problem on its own

You don’t get enough arrows to go back like that in the first place

[austere mulch]

On zuk, at least*

[meager flame]

Just shoot the pink arrows

[graceful bay]

i dont think i've ever used a rune arrow

[hard axle]

8 str bonus minimum equivalent that seeker arrow provided

[lament ridge]

It's just that people 100% will wish for everything to be easier, faster, and stronger

[restive storm]

Thank god we’re buffing ranged am I right?

[chrome lantern]

Yeah that's going to be super accuracy-dependant and would not be true the vast majority of places

[lament ridge]

And dont realize why they might be sick of Leagues after 2 weeks

[chrome lantern]

I'm sick of Leagues because they've done the same premise 3 times and are doing it a 4th time now instead of doing anything different

[reef laurel]

Oathplate replaced torva for everyone. The only people who use torva are group max eff cox (pretty dead) and ToA (also pretty dead).

[hard axle]

shakes in cox trio rec

[austere mulch]

In this scenario, even if zuk was 0 def, dragon arrows are still only 13 vs 12.9 dps of rune seeker

And amy seeker is stronger on anything regardless of def level

In void and in max

[chrome lantern]

I guess I'll just have to look at calcs

[meager flame]

All of that doesn’t even matter though

[austere mulch]

Yeah I got it pulled up rn

[meager flame]

It just loops back to do you want to shoot the best or second best arrow

Okay how do we get them

[reef laurel]

Seeker arrows ass at doom tho, which is the only place that actually demands a large amount of arrows atm

[tough nacelle]

I think you’re the exception for COX times

[austere mulch]

The grearscape one at least. I haven’t updated my spreadsheet

[meager flame]

Alright it’s not worth getting the best ones

[tough nacelle]

The majority of people are not running 20 min or less chambers

[median wing]

i don't really understand designing the game around ironman

[meager flame]

Nothing is changing

[austere mulch]

Why are they ass at doom? Outside of supply I guess

[tough nacelle]

It’s realistically 2x runs an hour or 500 h on rate

[median wing]

I wish it was designed arounds selling and buying different items

[tough nacelle]

But don’t design around late game irons

[austere mulch]

Seeker arrows naturally improve weaker ammo types at a proportionally larger rate than strainer ammo types

[reef laurel]

You’re guaranteed to hit in car and need to stall for boulders half the time anyways.

[austere mulch]

Bc more rolls on the low end

[chrome lantern]

The place where damage matters most you have 100% acc, similar to void. They're not bad and the min hit still helps a lot

[tough nacelle]

Just deiron at endgame if you’re not enjoying it

[median wing]

now the game has to be small enough to be completeable by irons

[meager flame]

The funny part is that people are asking for something to do

[austere mulch]

Amy seeker still outperforms regular dragon on car phase

With tbow and Masori

[reef laurel]

Seeker arrows at Doom if anything will allow people to A) get Gm time easier, removing the need to skip his attack for the time and B) allow people to take void over masori again for mega deep delves (as accuracy coming out of car can be important)

[chrome lantern]

I think the main point just being that it doesn't let their big accuracy advantage shine. It's definitely a buff no matter how you look at it.

[tough nacelle]

Reality is we can’t make dragon arrows more common or it makes tbow too cheap to use

It’s already basically free

[meager flame]

Yeah and has been forever

[chrome lantern]

Like calling seekers "bad" will always be wrong because they're at a minimum better than existing arrows

[meager flame]

So non issue there

[tough nacelle]

It sucks for irons that want to push for speed - but if that’s your goal at endgame iron, it sucks but the 99.99% of the game can’t be balanced around that

[meager flame]

It’s like

[tough nacelle]

Just deiron and enjoy the next journey

[meager flame]

Omg I only get to fire this arrow 5 times?? Huge cost balancing there

[reef laurel]

Tbow is a 1.7b weapon sir and at 100k pts/hr (unrealistic without megascales or max gear) is a 1,000 hour grind. I don’t think it should cost a fortune to operate, you save 90% of arrows anyways. On a main tbow is 8% the price of shadow and scythe to operate.

[meager flame]

Lol

[true talon]

I manage my d arrows by not using them.

[meager flame]

The real proper use of the arrows on an iron is likely to fire them as soon as you get them

Because the dif never matters

And otherwise ignore their existence

That’s what it’s really like

[tough nacelle]

If we didn’t have amethyst arrows sure

But we do

[median wing]

the best way to get dragon arrows on an iron is to lobby for easier dragon arrows

[reef laurel]

I will agree that it would be nice to actually use dragon arrows on an iron. I literally never use mine outside of max eff ToB. Which sucks, cause you’re always thinking how that 1:01 hydra kill could have been a 0:58s kill

[tough nacelle]

Oh trust me I know,

[meager flame]

Yeah but thinking that way you just cost yourself more time

Saving them for basically never

[tough nacelle]

But the reality is that’s the game mode. If we balance the entire game around a niche of a niche the resource price tanks

[true talon]

They don’t, that’s the thing.

[tough nacelle]

If we add more sources the price definitely drops

[tough nacelle]

I don’t know if I agree with this

[meager flame]

Yeah but if the price drops what changes

[tough nacelle]

Doom drop rates were definitely designed around

Irons*

[median wing]

yeah im sure we will see another corp drop table

[reef laurel]

I agree. I just don’t really think that arrows currently have or should have a massive value. People also forget that as the price goes down, more people will use them, deleting them from the economy, which drives the price back up. I think the bigger concern should be “how do we prevent this from being botted” and not “how do we prevent more from existing.”

If botting was not a thing this conversation wouldn’t be happening

[tough nacelle]

People already use them though

[austere mulch]

If you’re doing 30k point raids at 30 mins

That’s 3.46% purple chance, or .1% chance for bow

Putting you at 1000kc or 500 hours for rate

[tough nacelle]

The only thing stopping their use case is bowfa doesn’t use it

[median wing]

99% of mains have no problems with corp drop table

only the cloggers care

[meager flame]

It’s already basically free we’re billionaires talking about a resource cost that couldn’t dream of being relevant

[true talon]

That’s a dumb take, tbow is already cheap and will be even if d arrows are 10k each

[meager flame]

I feel like that doesn’t really connect somehow

[obsidian venture]

Luckily irons don’t need d arrows for speed times (they’re free)

[meager flame]

Like if you’re a main and you don’t fire dragon arrows you’re crazy

[obsidian venture]

Now powercrept by Amy seeker arrows gg

[tough nacelle]

True, especially with seeker arrows coming out

[meager flame]

They’re the next thing after free lol

[true talon]

Why do people equate 100% farmable to easier?

[obsidian venture]

Everytime

[reef laurel]

Yeah ngl I fabricated my numbers like a lil Panzy I forgot mathematician TM was here but 500 hrs is still a long grind I think the variance is still like 25%? Or whatever so it’s like 650 hrs at that rate expected

[tough nacelle]

They’re already farmable

It’s just horrible to do

[reef laurel]

On rate is 500 hrs ye

[austere mulch]

Yeah but also 60k pts/hr is preeeettty bad

Not unheard of it terribly undergeared tho

[obsidian venture]

60k pph is dog shit lmao

[median wing]

nothing wrong with a 55 minute cm

[true talon]

No they were not.

[tough nacelle]

I don’t think 60k points per hour on solos is horrible

If you’re talking pre scouting

In BIS sure

[reef laurel]

I started doing like 200k/hr megascales ngl they’re fun but getting a b5b white light for eve tho one on the team from a 4+44 is kinda meh

[tough nacelle]

But he was referring to irons which are using less than ideal gear

[austere mulch]

Ngl I’m still stuck on rune seeker arrows outperforming dragon arrows in places lmao

[meager flame]

I mean 60k an hour solos is not very good

Like

Do a cm in less than an hour

[tough nacelle]

The tbow grind time is stupid for sure, but I don’t know if dragon arrows need to be coming into the game at a higher rate

[austere mulch]

In BIS, you should be getting easily over 100k/hr doing full raids

[meager flame]

And you’re better than that

[hard axle]

I do 130k/hr no pre-scouts

[tough nacelle]

GM in BIS

[true talon]

That’s because the gap between arrow type is extremely small, buts it’s about principal more than any damage gain.

[austere mulch]

Should be able to comfortably get 60 while taking naps and potty breaks in less gear

[tough nacelle]

You and iron Andy ain’t the same loool

[hard axle]

I lost my near rec from 3 years ago

[median wing]

the principle should be that irons should adapt to the game and not the other way around no?

[hard axle]

Scouting is shit man

[tough nacelle]

Don’t worry, once seeker arrows come out you can run it back

[austere mulch]

Should purple sweets be more accessible too then

[hard axle]

Okay delete dragon arrows and make it never possible to upgrade

[meager flame]

I dont think this should even be a thought anyone is having

[hard axle]

god

[tough nacelle]

I mean it’s not insignificant

[austere mulch]

How are you farming sweets

[meager flame]

Like

[obsidian venture]

Lots of gms cannot run good pph raids

[median wing]

yeah mains should be happy they get fun grinds

like 5 different rare fish from deep sea trawling

[tough nacelle]

But endgame shouldn’t be built for irons - the game loop SUCKS at endgame

But once you’re a main it’s fun

[meager flame]

If you realize something isn’t working and then you look into it deeper and realize it means nothing to the game in general on any level

[tough nacelle]

Vs early to midgame which is the exact opposite

[meager flame]

You should probably adjust it

[obsidian venture]

Waiting on Jagex to have buyable scouts (good money sink) or remove 6 rooms from “small” scouts

[meager flame]

That’s where dragon arrows are

[reef laurel]

I’ll be using these no matter what the changes bring like I said I only use dragon arrows for tob they’re kinda cope elsewhere even amethyst is cope

[tough nacelle]

At best you could add dragon arrows into a smithing rework

[meager flame]

They’re free if you’re a main the cost is irrelevant and it simply doesn’t do anything for irons the way it is

There’s really not a good reason to not take the chance to add something cool

Nothing to lose scenario

[austere mulch]

For the record, I get where you’re coming from as a matter of principle. I side more along the lines of irons are knowlingly restricted and the more restrictions you remove, the more you just become a soft core main. And with that in mind, the economy around dragon ammo is more valuable than removing a byproduct of an accepted restriction to the game mode

[reef laurel]

I disagree a bit. I don’t think it should be built around irons entirely. But rn there’s not much incentive to keep playing iron at endgame with how difficult upkeep is.

[hard axle]

Seriously, if you want to talk about cox buff and qol, just make buyable scouts at 1-5m a pop and watch 1T get sunk by speedrunners in a month.

[tough nacelle]

The reason endgame iron sucks is there’s 0 value to returning to old content

So should we make a system that exchanges one unique for another?

Because it’s unfun on an endgame iron

[meager flame]

I think it depends on the item when it comes to the resource game on an iron

[tough nacelle]

Like gwd is dead on iron after uniques

[reef laurel]

Also people don’t realize that ironmade mode is essentially the game mode all new players play. You aren’t going to buy a tbow as a level 50. You are going to need to grind for it.

[meager flame]

If irons actually farmed for dragon arrows and they made it easier that would be a big change

[true talon]

I’m not because I’m not an idiot

[meager flame]

If dragon arrows are so dumb nobody goes out of their way to get them in the first place

[tough nacelle]

Only way I’d be okay with this is if they released it with a smithing rework

[median wing]

yeah everyone plays iron now

[vivid ruin]

New players starting as iron are screwing themselves

[meager flame]

Well now things are different

[vivid ruin]

People who recommend it arent doing anyone justice

[austere mulch]

Buyable scouts, even with no loot (still give pet roll pls) would be hot ngl

[round lintel]

my iron was only missing shadow and scythe, some of mid qol grinds i was kinda dry. I quit and dropped everything, rebuilding from 0 and has been somewhat fun and better than sending TOA all day for white lights

[reef laurel]

Add iron-only endgame content to acquire iron-specific supplies that cannot be easily accessed so that people can’t just rage-bot it the way they would with vampires.

[round lintel]

or 5 Lightbearers in a row

[tacit wharf]

i think its a fine way to start, as if they end up not likely it, they can change it to a main

[median wing]

maybe i should make an iron if they arent going to design grinds around having access to trading other players

[hard axle]

It would. Ask every former cox speedrunner
and they’ll tell you they stopped is because rng scouts

[restive storm]

I will say this makes me feel slightly better about the Wildy, cuz at this point irons will complain about literally having to do anything that isn’t end game pvm lol

[rigid sonnet]

Restricted account players when their account is restricted in some way

[meager flame]

It’s kinda the opposite a lot of the better d arrow methods are pvm

The numbers are just too small to be relevant

So you end up afking amy

[vivid ruin]

Yeah but with how time consuming the game can be, starting off as a normal acc is the best way to learn if you'll even enjoy the game or not. Then you take that knowledge to ironman mode if you have to time available.

[restive storm]

Right so the argument is “I want to do endgame pvm, but not THAT end game pvm” lol

[tacit wharf]

still think its a good way to start, even if people dont stick with it in the end

[reef laurel]

I don’t think most irons complain, at all really. In fact I don’t know a single iron that actively complains. I think most of them actually do the grind, suggest changes afterwards, and get shit on and called crybabies by people who haven’t or refuse to do the grind themself.

Like I can’t remember the last thing I complained about that I hadn’t actually put 500 hours into to have a valid opinion on it.

[meager flame]

No it’s more like I’d like to have ammo and going back to content I’ve already completed to get arrows at an appalling rate is not a real option

[true talon]

That’s not a restriction, it’s a resource acquisition problem. Nowhere in the Ironman handbook does it say when you get a tbow or scorching bow you will be delegated to using amyethyst arrows

[round lintel]

I only complaint about the blessed accounts. Someone who gets all drops like if they were playing leagues

Like I get it you get lucky here and there

but Ive met irons who get everything soooo fast

they dont really grind

[restive storm]

Think ur the odd man out on this one tbh

[meager flame]

Any iron complaining about d arrows very likely has a tbow so I’d say the odds are high they play the game

[austere mulch]

It’s a restriction around the availability of a resource. Everyone knows that dragon ammo doesn’t have a skilling-based method for collecting them. It’s always been that way and they’ve always been positioned as such.

You go into Ironman mode knowing and accepting there will be scarcity around that resource, among others. Though there are still ways to generate them in large quantities if you wanted to go out of your way to do so

[true talon]

Bingo, majority of advocate for changes but still doing the grinds. It’s a mentality of making things better.

[austere mulch]

As an example, doesn’t MMORPG have over 1m dragon arrows? Or close to it lol

[round lintel]

at doom d arrows matter alot too

[austere mulch]

It’s a white stack for sure

[austere mulch]

Not with seeker arrows outperforming dragon

[round lintel]

thats if they pass dont they?

have they been polled yet?

[true talon]

MMORPG? The Ironman who plays RuneScape for a living and is doing co ported content for views and clogs? He might have 100k because he don’t use them. I have 25k because I don’t use them.

[meager flame]

I’d be surprised if it fails

[austere mulch]

True, though it’s a pvm update that is generally well received and if history tells us anything…

[true talon]

Go watch rice cups Toa prep grind he did for d arrows for his tbow

[obsidian venture]

As is the gamemode

[true talon]

He had to do like 1000 brimstone keys

[meager flame]

Tbf that man is out of his mind too

[obsidian venture]

Some things you should grind for like d arrows and darts

[austere mulch]

Even if you started using them now at 25k, given the content you’re likely to be doing, you may never run out

[round lintel]

I think Rice is a good example of ironman Grinding

[meager flame]

Both of them lol

[chrome lantern]

The only places I've ever used dragon arrows are 1 duo nex, like 5 ToA 500s, and 7 awakened leviathans

[meager flame]

Neither is an example of like doing the smart thing

[true talon]

Doesn’t matter I lost 5k just doing doom before I switched to pink ones

[tacit wharf]

i mean thats on u

[median wing]

i don't care about the dragon arrows im just sad that they wont be able to add interesting resources to the economy

[chrome lantern]

And I have 1500 duke kc, 30 colo, 620 cg, and like 320 CoX

[meager flame]

They just get on and blast content a lot of the time for no real reason to make content

[chrome lantern]

They get eviscerated instantly if you try to use them

[median wing]

every update has to adapt to the irons now

[chrome lantern]

I've fired well over 100k amethyst arrows

[reef laurel]

That being said, like I said I’m not complaining about arrows I’m chilling either way I’ve gotten so used to using rune arrows but it would be very nice to be able to use dragon arrows without that aching feeling of “I wonder if I’m using them properly” or “I wonder when I’ll get more”. My bigger concern actually is probably darts. I got 40k from ToA and doom am down to 10k and don’t really plan on grinding ToA 10 hours a day again to get more dart tips. I don’t think you should be able to farm shit from an NPC, if anything as suggested prior should be able to break down drops from dragons (not vampires), not need separate bank layouts and wasted bank space. I don’t think the value would change much because the value of bones themselves would go up if anything and prayer would be harder to train, etc.

[minor whale]

He didn't "have to" do 1k brimstone keys for his tbow
He wanted to and did inefficient content that isn't even a time save overall for irons

[meager flame]

Yeah he legit wasted incredible amounts of time for the content

[austere mulch]

I’ve been doing nothing but a daily solo or two cox for the past few months and my arrow stack hasn’t moved

[meager flame]

I’d never tell a normal person to even think about it

[austere mulch]

Granted, using shadow for vangs shamans mystics etc

So take that with a grain of salt

[minor whale]

Irons need to deal with being restricted from certain things, ammo being one of them. The game should not be designed around and catered to people who can't trade but want everything slightly hard to get to be made faster to get

[austere mulch]

LMS giving irons early access to rune arrows in bulk was a mistake

[reef laurel]

Yh cox is like barely any arrows used ngl it’s really just doom, parts of nex depending if you rp2 with melee setup, and bosses like hydra .

[true talon]

Bounty hunter used to give us amyethyst

[meager flame]

Lms is honestly irrelevant you’re going to have 500k rune arrows if you pick them up because you exist

If you never do lms

[hard axle]

And that was cuz he wanted to, not because it was efficient or meta.

[austere mulch]

It’s nice for early gp and alchs too

[reef laurel]

Lms is ass and those arrows are like 1:1 alchs strictly

[chrome lantern]

I never did lms for arrows yeah

[austere mulch]

But yeah. They do drop in plenty

[round lintel]

i mean if you are shit at pvp doesnt matter, you could get 3 points an hr or 20 points an hr

[chrome lantern]

I never really had issues with gp either

[true talon]

Actually it was because it made him a video and highlighted issues, and it was pre Colo/dt2

So best way was brimstone keys

[meager flame]

Gp is easy as long as you do things in a sane order

There will be a small amount of stress maybe when you first get 83 con

[round lintel]

Like CG giving shit ton of mith, addy arrows

that you wont ever use

[austere mulch]

Speaking of order, iron progression from early to late game is nuts these days lmao

[hasty shard]

why are we having a whole convo about dragon ammo drops from venators

[austere mulch]

It’ll be even more so with blood moon rises potentially

[reef laurel]

Idk endgame GP is ass. I easily spend 30m on runes a week assuming shadow/scythe usage. The ayak is really nice it cut down on my gp requirements.

[vivid ruin]

Because irons ruin everything

[true talon]

Because this is our chance to get farmable d ammo for irons

[hasty shard]

well yeah

[meager flame]

It’s his time to shine

[austere mulch]

This is also Dallas’s year to win the superbowl

[hasty shard]

i dont see why someone would take an issue with it here

[true talon]

We must advocate for this to come into the game and not as an rng drop

But as a farmable resource

[austere mulch]

Add queen black dragon as a wildy expansion and have it be a regular source for dragon ammo types at a decent rate/hr

Go crazy

[round lintel]

yup everything else is like that

[austere mulch]

Honestly wouldn’t be a terrible idea

[tough nacelle]

Amethyst arrow farming already has pretty high requirements

[reef laurel]

Yh idk I disagree with them coming from this. Better solution is to make dragon bones able to be broken down. The price of arrows would literally stay the same as bones have an inherent value and are already botted.

You just make it a really shit conversion rate

[tough nacelle]

What are the next requirements going to be?

[meager flame]

That would be the first poll question to hit 100% no lmao

[reef laurel]

Like 2-3 arrows per bone

[meager flame]

Irons and PvP together

[true talon]

If it’s rng drop then it’s no different than current methods

[round lintel]

although mining is afk, is one of the most boring and slowest skill

[hard axle]

I remember that video and I don’t believe he calc’d it right. Will need to review.

For one, the idea that the minor time save is enough to warrant grinding out 1000 keys is unnecessary.

That’s still 100 hours at current efficient rates

[median wing]

lol was that a joke

[austere mulch]

If it’s 2k dragon arrows/darts (combined) per hour, it’d be different for sure

[true talon]

I proposed this as I thought it was good.

[austere mulch]

You also would use just rev weapons instead of your own ammo

Freelo

[true talon]

But a system similar but using new monster parts is also as good

[austere mulch]

Using dragon parts makes sense

[tough nacelle]

Why not - hear me out here- use the smithing skill

Eventually

[austere mulch]

Using vampire parts do not

[reef laurel]

Bones are like what? 3k? And you need like 2000 frost dragons for one part of one dragon boat. So if you only got 3 arrow tips per bone you’d still get like 10k arrows during sailing grind and the price would stay the same for mains with a white or green stack

And that’s an afk 100 d arrows an hour

[tough nacelle]

We want smithing to be reworked- you’d have an argument there

[obsidian venture]

That’d just tank arrows prices lmao

[median wing]

oh it's frost dragon bones for this proposal?

[tough nacelle]

There’s really no argument here other than I want it to be more convenient

[hard axle]

You talk about rng being the problem, but reality is if it was a bulk ammo case drop at 1/5000, you wouldn’t complain imo

[meager flame]

They should’ve taken this chance to bow out of normal arrows

[hard axle]

It very much is the arrows per hour that’s your concern

[reef laurel]

How would that tank arrow prices if you got 1:1 conversion rates price wise from bones…

[meager flame]

Seeker arrows should’ve just been their own thing

[austere mulch]

Maybe devs feel different now but before they said this doesn’t work because lore has ammo coming from fangs and talons, not femurs and tibia

[reef laurel]

If an arrow is 1k

And bones are 3k

And you got 3 arrow tips per bone

[tough nacelle]

Arrows are like 2200

[hard axle]

It causes a drag effect

[meager flame]

You gotta remember the value though that arrow gets fired 5 times

[chrome lantern]

2500

[austere mulch]

They also weren’t exactly sold on the idea of trying to force prices on the economy by having that tie

Not the end of the world tho

[hard axle]

by tying one item to another, you hamper price increases and you double down on decreases

[meager flame]

So the actual cost is like

Very low lol

[reef laurel]

Swear they are 1200

[median wing]

they will be after the iron lobbying is succesful

[obsidian venture]

[[dragon arrow]]

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Dragon_arrow

[reef laurel]

Oh they used to be

[meager flame]

Ya they used to be like 500

[chrome lantern]

That's the lowest they've gone like 8 months ago

[meager flame]

When my main got its first tbow

[reef laurel]

Yeah but you can’t use data from today

[chrome lantern]

Then doom came out

[reef laurel]

When a month ago they were 1200

[median wing]

do irons donate their dupes for the lobbying warchest

[reef laurel]

Imo

[chrome lantern]

A month ago they were 2k

[austere mulch]

People gonna be hella converting them to seeker variant tho so price prob stays up for awhile

[reef laurel]

True

[austere mulch]

It’s like the 3a axe situation, kind of, where making the felling version reduces the volume of the base

[meager flame]

Ya we’re gonna just go full dump everything into seeker arrows

Would be silly not to

[median wing]

i had 20k dragon arrows p++

[meager flame]

Regular arrows are dead if that update goes through

[austere mulch]

They said no poison seeker arrows but never said anything about fire seeker arrows

I want my dragon fire seeker arrows

[reef laurel]

This is just not very cool though ngl im sure I could lab out a way for irons to grind for arrows while their price on the maingame stays the exact same but it doesn’t “fit in the lore” so we are just going to either A) tailor to mains or B) tailor to irons instead and then the war continues…

[meager flame]

Unless seeker arrow rates are a clown show anyways

If so that update is doa

Would be funny though

[austere mulch]

I love how woodcutting is really working its way back to the iron scape task list

Between doom and the new arrow shafts

Chop chop!

[reef laurel]

Ironwoods we’re a nice addition

So inccredibly afk for what they give

[chrome lantern]

I mean cutting demon tears isn't really that useful unless you turbo spoon and have time where you wouldn't be playing otherwise

It's only like 375k/hr effective gp at 99 wc

[austere mulch]

Queen black dragon ezpz

[tacit wharf]

not a bad downtime activity

[austere mulch]

I don’t think dragon ammo should come from skilling

So make a better more targeted pvm encounter for farming them

[reef laurel]

Cutting demon tears is still really bad you don’t want to get spooned at doom likely because you want dragon dart tips, aether catalyst, bones, etc from doom

[austere mulch]

If anything

[chrome lantern]

I guess if you look at it from the perspective of "every time you log off, go 30min afk 140k worth of demon tears" then it's a bit more egregious

[chrome lantern]

Spoken like one of those people that thinks going dry at hydra is desirable

[meager flame]

I mean if you were down bad you’d do that it’s like sailing

[austere mulch]

Yeah this is more what I’m thinking

[tacit wharf]

more of a, if i wouldnt be playing at this time but now i can just afk this instead

[austere mulch]

Occasionally login. Tap. Be gone

[meager flame]

If you aren’t 99 stop it and afk on your boat each time you leave the pc

[chrome lantern]

I personally don't do this but I could see the argument

I just log out when I'm not playing xd

[icy relic]

people who are dry at doom don't collect loot

they just go until they die

[chrome lantern]

I've lost like 2/3 of my loot at doom

[meager flame]

They honestly shouldn’t be adding full 30 min afks like that

[chrome lantern]

My pb is 41, deep delving is just way more fun than shallow delving

[austere mulch]

Honestly that’s gotta be the best part about doom imo

[chrome lantern]

Even stars go too far

[reef laurel]

On an iron at least, this is really bad, is my point