game-update

[vivid ruin]

"The Man Cave"

[craggy wind]

Buff agility training

Better xp or afk method

Let’s discuss

[slate mica]

Did they make changes to the disorientation length for Sire today? Noticing I need two barrages when before I almost always got all four in one.

[graceful jungle]

How afk do you want it

[ruby osprey]

Is osrs down atm?

[spark bone]

should be entirely afk since its a worthless skill with no benefit except shortcuts lol

[graceful jungle]

you buggin

[spark bone]

not really after years of people asking for a rework or rest, they gave it a barely noticeable buff and its still terrible. I hate easyscape but agility is stupid af, run energy in general bad mechanic imo

[graceful jungle]

im not gonna argue run energy being a bad mechanic

but since its here restoring it faster and it depleting slower is big, plus access to shortcuts as you said

[spark bone]

agility has basically no impact on run restore rate, skill might as well be called stamina potioning

[languid ravine]

yeah potions made agility and run pointless

i dont mind run energy except in pvp its really annoying

[spark bone]

its basically like daily energy for mobile p2w games, except in real time and they forgot to monetize it

[graceful jungle]

its probably the only skill thats constantly in use regardless of what youre doing since your on-foot activity is most likely running

its a switch thats always on

[spark bone]

99 breathing lol

you always use it

[graceful jungle]

i guess if thats where you want to take this

unlike mining, woodcutting, firemaking, etc. you have to be DOING those things to get something out of them

you are always getting something out of agility

[tender harness]

Agility is fine

[languid ravine]

those skills should have more shortcuts

like how theres canoes

[spark bone]

its the equivalent of getting like 0.0001% interest and then claiming it to be a benefit. in all seriousness the xp rates are fine the skill is just pointless. and they baited people into thinking a marginal increase to something worthless was a rework

like the og rework made the skill worse at 99, they changed it to make it like 0.05% better than it already was, and then everyone just forgot its still terrible lol

[minor whale]

This is pretty substantial?

[graceful jungle]

Lets rock

[meager flame]

nah new agility is definitely a buff

[minor whale]

That's considerably longer total running per (whatever timeframe you choose) that scales pretty linearly

It's a buff everywhere in all content you do in game pretty much

Saying it's bad is just delusional

[graceful jungle]

exactly agility is gigachad its always helping you

[meager flame]

tbf though

if you were like idk

85 agility

thats probably more than good enough

[minor whale]

Yeah, it's good enough for most content but every level helps

[graceful jungle]

im not mad at that i mean help is help

[meager flame]

yeah its just that the back half of the skill is like

maybe it should do something extra

it probably isn't really worth it if you aren't going to get a max cape

[minor whale]

Reddit was losing their mind on the initial proposal that later levels scale higher than earlier levels

So they changed it to make the scaling linear with the biggest % change being mid 80s

And I think that's ok I guess

If you want to go to 99 it does reward you

But getting to 85 is good enough for most accounts

[meager flame]

idk what they could really go for though to make it interesting

because just having more run % probably isn't something they should do

and shortcuts are kind of cringe

most of them end up irrelevant

[graceful jungle]

i always use that ge shortcut to the fairy ring

they should make it so it synergizes with other skills

like agility and thieving should somehow help each other

[meager flame]

its mostly just interesting from a game design pov like

how do i make someone really care they're 92 instead of 87

etc

[graceful jungle]

yeah

what if agility randomly made you dodge getting hit in combat

[spark bone]

where does any of that realistically matter lol, if your just playing the game normally you tele to where you need to go, and house or ferox to restore run energy. outside of a few bosses it doesnt matter, and every boss it does matter on feels like a bad mechanic. Like how bout just give zil legitimate mechanics

once again its just like a poorly implemented unmonetized pay to win mechanic, instead of $$ its stams

[nocturne solstice]

I use it for wildy shortcuts to escape pvpers, DKs are also something you cant teleport to and the shortcut makes it actually worth doing and saving me inv slots for the dang rock.

I think there's a lot of places it does matter to people.

[spark bone]

i mean shortcuts also dont directly correlate to the actual skill, its just like a perk of leveling the skill. its like saying i like hydra so slayer is good

[nocturne solstice]

That is the logic people use for slayer

[spark bone]

i agree lol

[nocturne solstice]

I kinda just see stats as a stat check that locks content behind it tbh. Aside from the combat stats they don't really "do" much to change gameplay.

[spark bone]

i saw the island contest winner and came here to see slayer discussion lol

[nocturne solstice]

So same goes with agility. It's just a stat check to access something. Slayer is a stat check for money bosses, etc etc

[spark bone]

yeah and both are bad to be honest. was very disappointed with the slayer rework as well. slayer at least has content locked behind it but basically just goes away once you get levels. run energy is always constant and outside of staminas i cant spend gold/or gain levels to not interact with it

originally came here to say they should just put the previously proposed boss slayer master on the island since its long overdue, but got rage baited by agility

[obsidian venture]

Agility is afk or at least low intensity if you want it to be

Could use some love sure but that applies to other skills as well

[minor whale]

That's the entire game
Every single skill can be reduced to "it just locks content behind gaining xp in it"

[spark bone]

not really, outside of combats most skills at least generate something. Mining gives amethyst or rune, thieving gives gold or items, etc. Agility generates or produces nothing outside of run energy. off the top of my head zil, zalcano, and solo cox are the only bosses geared around run energy and all would be better without it

by the same logic as warding failed shortcuts could just be incorporated into existing skills

[ember token]

what does construction and firemaking generate

sawdust and ashes?

[nocturne solstice]

I kinda see agility as HP or Prayer. Does lvling it help with the associated resource? Yes. Does lvling it make the resource a non-issue at some point? No. Is the resource being managed by something in the economy in some way? Yes.

Run energy will always be a problem same way as people always risk dying at 0 hp. I don't see it as a problem with game design but with player skill in terms of resource management.

[spark bone]

So Zil is good content? that's fun and engaging running in circles for hours?

[nocturne solstice]

Its profitable and people enjoy it so i guess? Kiting is a mechanic known and used throughout gaming for decades

I dont personally do it but I'm not gunna say what I like/dislike is objectively good/bad

[minor whale]

Zilyana is fine content

The game has plenty of mechanics to base bosses around

[spark bone]

a lot of stuff is profitable, i dont think that makes something good. and by that logic i dont get why we are making all these new mechanics lets just run in circles

[minor whale]

A couple being based around run energy management for best gp/hr is not a bad thing

[nocturne solstice]

to me Bandos, Kril, and Zily are the same tbh

[minor whale]

Most disingenuous argument of all time wowee

[nocturne solstice]

What do you mean these new mechanics? Zily is old af

[minor whale]

"Oh you think these mechanics are good? So you think all mechanics should just be that?"

[nocturne solstice]

Are you saying because something is good we should just copy paste it forever? Cause that's a bad argument.

[spark bone]

bandos and krill have multiple diffent ways to interact with the boss, zil only has run in circles outside of like maybe max gear melee

[nocturne solstice]

Well kril only has a new way beacuse of a new weapon

You think if we got a new icyene bane weapon zily suddenly becomes good content?

[minor whale]

The oldest ways of killing all the gwd bosses was "get Verac's and whack it with 3 friends"

[spark bone]

yeah actually maybe lol, some kind of different mechanic to run. theres no amount of dialogue that will convince me running in circles for hours is a good mechanic. i think kree is equally as archaic but at least you can bypass the chins method with bowfa

[minor whale]

People found out ways to improve their experiences there

And turns out almost all of them have ways to cheese

That's not saying that those bosses are bad, but they're products of their time and no reason to change it purely because you dislike...agility?

[spark bone]

yeah its almost like leveling your skills and improving gears eliminates the need for really redundant mechanics🤯

[nocturne solstice]

Im not really arguing here that running in circles is amazing new content that's a stunning example of peak gaming.

It's just kiting, it's something people have done for decades. People do it to avoid damage, people also go in groups. If you wanna get more into it iirc Zily has the duo method where you tag her with the right timing so she just boomerangs between the two players and no one gets hit.

[spark bone]

and by that logic stop improving new player experience

its a product of the time let it be

[minor whale]

Dude you're literally just making up random arguments lmao

[nocturne solstice]

I think you gotta collect yourself a bit and get back on point cause I got no idea what you're saying now in relation to agility

[minor whale]

There's a difference between changing an established boss mechanics because you dislike one aspect of it

[spark bone]

he said im not saying the boss is bad its a product of its time, by that logic what is the standard for changing mechanics on anything?

[nocturne solstice]

I mean, is it not obvious? Does that question really need an answer? People get bored with repetition and variety is nice.

[spark bone]

but they dont get bored running in circles, or farming staminas to run in more circles

[nocturne solstice]

They do, thats why they do other content, then they go back.

[minor whale]

With a boss or pvm encounters in general, you can just make new content with new mechanics

[nocturne solstice]

This is like common sense isn't it? Not just with gaming but real world things like food. Just cause you like pizza doesn't mean you'll eat it everyday. You mix it up sometimes with a burger or burrito but you always go back to pizza sometime cause it's your favourite.

[minor whale]

Nobody is locked into doing Zilyana until the heatdeath of the universe
If it's boring just don't do it
If you like it go do it
It's pretty simple

[graceful jungle]

The life of a rs player in a nutshell

[spark bone]

right but if a food is bad every time i eat it im just not going to eat it anymore

[nocturne solstice]

so dont eat it?

[minor whale]

Is anyone forcing you to eat this bad food

Or are you just yelling at people who do enjoy it "THIS IS BAD, STOP EATING IT!"

[spark bone]

yeah CoX is some of the best content in the game, zil is somewhat required for progression at least until acb. to go off the food analogy, if every friday the cafeteria at my work serves some kind of disgusting slop a lot of people hate, maybe change out the slop

you dont just keep saying well you dont have to eat it

[nocturne solstice]

So this is an ironman issue?

[spark bone]

a big chunk of the game are ironman, but no i think running in circles is bad on any account

[nocturne solstice]

Since its not required for progression, on a main you'd just go straight for zcb

[spark bone]

Chambers is still endgame content that a lot of people like to solo, but nice deflection onto ironman hate

[nocturne solstice]

You could probably avoid zcb too if you wanted. I'd say the def spec weaps are more somewhat required for progression.

Like BGS or DWH/elder maul now

[spark bone]

i agree but also wasnt my point, i think its a bad mechanic in general, regardless of ironman or gear or whatever. i understand you could say the same thing about a lot of stuff like construction or woodcutting. But most of that stuff you can bypass with gears or skill leveling

[minor whale]

...what
It's not a requirement for progression if you're not an ironman, and ACB is a relatively quick part of the grind all things considered

Irons know what they're signing up for, and it's that a single boss has the main mechanic of "manage run energy"

Which has mulitple tiles for your specific gear and agility level for both ease of clicking and maintaining run energy without sweets/stams

[nocturne solstice]

Kiting is a bad mechanic? Beacuse its weird you were saying CoX is some of the best content when Olm Head is just running around kiting as well.

[orchid temple]

Off topic but fr tho can we get ironman allowed to do gwd in groups?

Every new boss they add in a similar vein has the ability. yama, titans, huey all easier to solo than gwd but allowed.

And you need to cheese to do GWD with any efficiency

[nocturne solstice]

I think its fine for it not to groupable since you can do it in GIM if you wanted.

[spark bone]

yeah i mean its is kind of a bad mechanic in 2025 when we have a lot of content with actual good mechanics. and if it were just purely kiting it would be one thing but having a limited amount of kiting based on run energy feels redundant. and yeah technically it is but also as was pointed out you can to an extent by pass run energy mechanic on olm with certain set ups/tiles. i do not understand how this isnt considered redundant when something like warding was not considered independent enough for other skills

[nocturne solstice]

There's a difference between something being designed for X and modifying existing content for X

[graceful jungle]

🥶

[orchid temple]

Thats fair but they do occasionally go back to modify things, usually not for ironmen tho they just design stuff for them

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah I prefer that tbh

Like they can already bypass bcp grind by going for blood moon

Maybe they'll add a mid game def spec weapon next

[spark bone]

and GWD should absolutely be groupable for irons they're generally all outdated but wanted to focus on zil for the agility discussion lol. its already groupable for mains so doesnt change much. all the gear from GWD are generally bypassable except maybe armadyl for masori so its should be no big deal

[nocturne solstice]

I mean the whole point of Ironman is doing content yourself so why would they change grouping mechanics for old bosses when it just means you didn't accomplish it yourself and you can leech or whatever.

(I also wasnt a fan of the whole ironman boosting scene back in the day for CoX and stuff)

[spark bone]

yeah i agree for the most part i just dont think it makes a difference with the amount of group content they put in now adays

800 bandos kc on the iron btw, i just also agree its doesnt feel worth the solo grind comparably to other content

only thing i think really needs to be made immediately groupable is corp

[winged mantle]

I think current Iron definition is - self sustained non tradable account

[graceful jungle]

oh shit

[winged mantle]

Too many bosses/ content allow you to be non solo

[nocturne solstice]

I dont think people like the self sustained part either, that's a big complaint about the gamemode isnt it?

[winged mantle]

I love the self sustainable part

[graceful jungle]

When definitions get thrown in u know it’s getting heating up

I smell smoke

[winged mantle]

Na no smoke

Just conversation

[graceful jungle]

Lmao ik lemme fall back

[spark bone]

no people who complain about self substain on the iron are lobotomized

[winged mantle]

Like I'm in the iron end game and it's just fun doing the iron chores and killing things fast noe

[nocturne solstice]

Well despite how you feel about em there are still a lot of em asking for buffs and changes to make resource gathering easier. Scarred essence mine is one that comes to mind.

[winged mantle]

I think people were bummed with the farming shovel being shelved

[nocturne solstice]

I also don't think people like the non tradable part of your definition either.

We had a few suggestion threads asking in one way or another to allow ironmen to trade on the GE

I think you might remember a few haha

[winged mantle]

Ofc no one's going to agree. Try getting people to agree on when is the mid game

[languid ravine]

trade on GE with 1000% tax

[winged mantle]

Entity hide the ge

[craggy wind]

I’m open to any. Just wanted to discuss tbh

Agility feels in a bad spot. HIGHLY controversial take apparently, but it’s weird how it’s been lately.

There’s a reason it’s the worst skill…

[winged mantle]

Idk I've been playing an iron for almost 7 years now and love the game mode esp with all the qol.

[nocturne solstice]

Iunno, runecrafting is a staunch competitor!

[winged mantle]

All the homies hate rc

[nocturne solstice]

Well you do and I can't argue against that but just general sentiment wise it seems like people don't like the sustaining and want to be able to trade on the iron.

Which boggles my mind of course.

[orchid temple]

Love having a big ol stacks of supplies that I gathered, 6k pray pots still doing contracts n farm runs

[winged mantle]

They are weak

[nocturne solstice]

no arguments there

[craggy wind]

If they add better AFK, it should definitely be a higher level req. sailing format with salvaging being only good xp at 70 I love. I think maybe it should START high level, even. 90+ is just so freaking bad. Only decent afk option is a poh tunnel that’s never intended to be a legitimate option LOL

[nocturne solstice]

I was happy just running ardy rooftops tbh

its not that click intensive and pretty easy to do while doing other stuff

[craggy wind]

I hear you, but no doubt GOTR / souls / bloods fill the afk / low effort skill niche well

[orchid temple]

Brimhaven is kinda afk by osrs standards of the word, near half downtime

[nocturne solstice]

I really hated gotr as it had bad xp rates and was super click intensive. I was happy with soulds and bloods but most people hate them as well for some reason.

[craggy wind]

Now no doubt it’s boring AF. but it’s at least decently low effort

[spark bone]

i like gotr to be honest, but maybe thats just because ourian was so bad lol

[craggy wind]

ZMI, yet another option

Agility = rooftops

[orchid temple]

Bloods and souls at zeah is where its at for rc

[nocturne solstice]

During my rc grind I tried all of em, zmi, gotr, blood, soul, wrath, even nature runes.

[craggy wind]

Sepulchre, for the high intensity. Which you’d think would be killer rates

[nocturne solstice]

Blood and soul worked best for me and felt the same vibe as rooftops

[orchid temple]

It is killer rates but not if compared to other skills

But sepulchre can go eat it

[nocturne solstice]

If the argument here is for more variety in agi training though I'm happy for that

Just something different would be nice

[spark bone]

yeah i think the rework was just really underwhelming they should have not just put a bandaid over it and moved on (same for slayer). one of my biggest complaints with jagex is they have a huge we'll get back to it later mentality and later never happens

[orchid temple]

What would that look like though?

Only way to go easier than running roofs is full 10mins afk 1 click

[nocturne solstice]

That is the big question isnt it? What would it look like.

It would depend on what people want out of it, afk or intensive.

Personally I think a revamped maze from ToB sotez could be a fun agi minigame

[orchid temple]

Probably something more intense than roofs but less than sepulchre and likewise for exp from it

Sepulchre is a wild jump from clicking green squares

[craggy wind]

It would look real low effort, fun/funny, prob in the realm of 30-40k xph, 90+ lvl req

That or slightly between roofs and sep intensity at like 75-100k xph

[nocturne solstice]

If we're talking afk... maybe we could just look into buffing blast furnace xp rates?

idk, I don't like changing old content but it seems to fit well for it

[winged mantle]

Like even at the stage of my account I still enjoy the forced breaks from content to do herb runs/ make pots etc. gives more weight and value to your supplies

[craggy wind]

At this rate, make POH agility 30k and call it a day

It costs 55m to make

[obsidian venture]

just click rooftops and watch a show

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah I enjoy that too, I still do that on my main

I make my own potions lmao

[winged mantle]

As much as I would want to only pvm and never have to make pots again, the game mode would then be missing something

[spark bone]

yeah regularman accounts just revolve around gp everything comes down to i could be doing raids, takes the fun out of the game and makes it worthless to do other content

[nocturne solstice]

I just do content I enjoy and avoid the content I don't enjoy on the main

[craggy wind]

Just have to change your mindset, friend! Normiescape lets you skip grinds you don’t want. I play Ironman-esque and it’s the best of both worlds

[nocturne solstice]

There's always a reason to try new things whether it be for CAs, diaries, or money making

or cloggers

[craggy wind]

But you know what both modes have in common?

Agility is D U L L

[winged mantle]

Iron clogging

[ember token]

i just do the content that gives collection log slots and avoid the content that doesnt give collection log slots

[winged mantle]

But that's everything

[craggy wind]

This is the way most of the time. I’m constantly chasing dopamine, and this is mainly tied to those sweet clogs

[ember token]

oh yeah what about [[keldagrim tasks]]

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Keldagrim_tasks

[round lintel]

Find hard this is a real player

doing frosties

[pseudo plank]

Vorkath murdered

[round lintel]

rank 107 corp too

[chrome lantern]

Nice cape

[round lintel]

yup

same world

same outfit but defence cape

[round lintel]

I love going 400 kills (half of them on task) without a single nail or sheet drop

[graceful jungle]

That’s why your pfp looks so happy huh

[round lintel]

yup

[graceful jungle]

You just loving it

[dark token]

Lol

[blissful topaz]

@winter hearth any eta on the left click bury option for new players? I think it would be good feature, if people dont like it just add toggle option in settings 🙂

[ember token]

your update is that it doesn't sound like it's currently planned to happen

[blissful topaz]

that sounds like its being implemented?

because j-mod says its been done and is asking for more examples

probably release it in the next new player update if im not understanding what he wrote wrong

https://tenor.com/view/kyriakos-grizzly-kyriakos-grizzly-bloatlord-bloat-gif-22581860

@winter hearth

[analog crow]

At this point I have 99 herblore banked and ready to go, all from herbs I grew myself.

[nocturne solstice]

Very nice

good stuff

[frozen lion]

Am I the only one who wish it would show name of "last-destination" instead on Quetzal whistle?

Like if last time I teleported to Hunter's guild it would be "Hunter's guild Perfected quetzal whistle" instead of "Last-destinastion Perfected quetzal whistle"

I do lots of herb runs and coconut gathering and I keep forgeting whether last time I was in Hunter's guild or Kastori

So pretty much don't use last-destination feature at all

Similar to Fairy ring

or Last-destination (location) perfected quetzal whistle

[dreamy fractal]

I'm curious, what do you use coconuts for

I've never had a use on my iron

[chrome lantern]

He doesn't have an ironman tag so probably for ge

[dreamy fractal]

Ooh

I didn't realize mains did chores

[opal urchin]

The new jagex logo looks really nice! Thanks a bunch for making it nice!

[chrome lantern]

Did they change it?

[opal urchin]

the one from the last week or so

[chrome lantern]

That doesn't tell me anything

[opal urchin]

it’s got a dragon and a tail now

[chrome lantern]

I never would have noticed if I weren't told

[craggy wind]

Dude I was thinking I’ve been going crazy. Thanks for sharing this LOL. I was like “wait… has it always been this way?”

It is a really subtle but neat addition

[opal urchin]

if you look at the corporate homepage, it looks like they've redesigned it a lot focused on this logo too

it's not a dramatic shift or anything but definitely makes it look a lot less like x-twitter

[zenith pike]

So it was you in cc yesterday

[dreamy fractal]

I am many places

[zenith pike]

nsa

[dreamy fractal]

What did I do in cc yesterday that warrants this reaction but yes

[zenith pike]

Well I joined for the first time

And thought that your name looked familiar

[dreamy fractal]

Oh

To be fair there's many Draco's

[zenith pike]

Exactly

[frozen lion]

Yes, GE :p

110m+ farming here, quite some easy cash

[tacit pendant]

Its like 2mil an hour effective for a 5 minute herb run. Its like probably worse than that when you consider regearing etc. To each their own

[frozen lion]

Well I only do it after herb run, (pick catherby's coconuts after catherby herbs), just need to pick up eternal teleport crystal from bank and its ready to go

[velvet orchid]

I seen it and was like is that different? Determined no idea 😂

[graceful jungle]

if jagex wants to add micro aggression to the game make players carry a hammer to fix the cannon when it stops working

[austere mulch]

Hammer + 2 unnoted steel bars

[tough nacelle]

wtf on earth are these DMM rules

I love this mode but I didnt realize you lose grace period when you TP away

thats wild

PJ timers are so important that they wrong 3 paragraphs on it

meanwhile tp into getting rushed is A-OK

[minor whale]

Yeah it's just immunity to pick up loot in DMM

As soon as you leave you're vulnerable again

[tough nacelle]

that could have been written - literally anywhere

didnt lose much to it, just very annoying lol

[languid ravine]

fight within 90 seconds run of a bank lol

[graceful jungle]

Like fighting within walking distance of a police station 😂

[meager flame]

lol you gotta remember what game you're playing

this is osrs and its related to pvp there will be weird obscure rules that just assume you've been up to date with everything for 20 years

usually completely hidden or the next best thing with a random explanation you probably couldn't go find before you run into whatever issue lol

[languid ravine]

hmm they could put pvp questions in the stronghold of security

"how long is freeze immunity"

[meager flame]

i mean they really should do something like that somewhere but honestly

[nocturne solstice]

Just like all the other security questions it will be skipped, ignored, unread

[meager flame]

i bet if you asked jmods the rules in every pvp scenario they couldn't answer the question 100% correctly

it really is that situational and niche where they'd basically be guaranteed to trip up somewhere

like most of us lol

[languid ravine]

plays a 10 second clip and u have to say at what point pid swapped

[icy relic]

DMM is so chill

But you look on reddit and everyone is acting like DMM murdered their family or something

[languid ravine]

some phenomenon in every game is reddit trying to pretend nobody in the entire world enjoys pvp and therefore it must be removed from every game

probably find out later on it was some psy-op done by reddit admins

[meager flame]

i mean its not nobody but if you go to where a lot of players are talking obviously most of them wont like pvp

the exaggeration is so common because its based in some level of truth where most people really dont like it

[languid ravine]

nah its specifically reddit that fuels bias, with the upvote system u are discouraged from having opinions (so the most vapid and low effort posts are promoted)

traditional forums are way more productive. and im pretty sure games like New World closed down their forums and pivoted to reddit precisely to drown out criticism and feedback of the game, which was rlly disgusting

Gnome Monkeys video about deadman mode is really good despite not being a pvper

[meager flame]

i mean a gnomonkey video doesn't refute like 13 years of the majority of osrs players making it crystal clear what they think of pvp lol

[languid ravine]

reddit represents like less than 1% of osrs players

[meager flame]

who cares about reddit

look at the polls

or anywhere honestly

[languid ravine]

i dont care about polls they are meaningless

[meager flame]

i mean you can ignore the tens of thousands of people that shoot down almost any pvp update given the chance but lol they do exist

[languid ravine]

game updates shouldnt be determined by ppl reading a poll question, thinking about it for 1 or 2 seconds and then probably pressing the wrong button

[languid ravine]

most of the pvp changes have backfired

pj timers protect max pkers and make pking less approachable for new players

[restive siren]

i mean you can argue about what percentage of players exactly enjoys or hates pvp and how reddit and polls are not representative but pvp being a minority playstyle is just irrefutable

[languid ravine]

if they made updates that improved pvp and it became the majority playstyle what would u say then?

do we delete the pvm side of the game?

its a sandbox mmorpg game u dont just have one playstyle or type of content

to reduce the variety in the game would just kill it entirely because thats the whole point

[languid ravine]

and also this wasnt even polled lol

[restive siren]

i wasnt arguing for that whatsoever, im just saying that ignoring the majority opinion because it doesnt fit your narrative isnt the way to make progress either. pvpers deserve good updates too but the constant tribalism isnt helping from either side, people should be more cooperative

[languid ravine]

allowing ppl who dont even pk to decide how the updaes should be is basically just more evidence that the polling system cannibalises the game

but there is no such thing as a "majority opinion"

players arent a hive mind

[restive siren]

well they improved the polling system i hope they use it

[restive siren]

the majority of people dont like or engage in pvp thats just true

[languid ravine]

thats ur opinion

[restive siren]

ofc there are a billion playstyles and opinions

[restive siren]

every single observable fact supports that "opinion"

if you want to ignore all of that i dont think you will make productive progress in changing players minds

[languid ravine]

what is productive about listening to a poll result?

there is literally zero valued attached to someones poll votes

imo the poll system is just some weird marketing gimmick to make some players think they impact the game

reality is you need skilled people to design, discuss and implement updates. there is zero use just putting things to a vote with next to zero context or understanding

[restive siren]

i am not only talking about polls

yes i agree polls are flawed btw

but there are a dozen things you can look at to draw the conclusion that pvp isnt a majority playstyle

[languid ravine]

why does it matter whether its majority or not? improving it would increase the number of players

[restive siren]

so you agree that it is yeah?

[languid ravine]

no if you look at the steam charts the largest games are all pvp games

[restive siren]

that has no correlation with osrs

pvp is a thing in wow too and like 1% of the playerbase engage with that, thats no logical argument

[languid ravine]

if you look at warhammer online the amount who pvp is around 99%

u know y?

wow pvp is vastly worse than warhammer

[restive siren]

i dont see how that is of any relevance

[ember token]

the concept of pvp in video games is not unpopular

[restive siren]

we can both list 500 games which have a majority of pvp or pve players, we are talking about it in osrs

[ember token]

the concept of pvp in osrs is unpopular due to various factors

[languid ravine]

if wow had good pvp it would have probably the largest pvp scene ever

[restive siren]

and in osrs its a minority playstyle

[languid ravine]

yeah because the updates to the pvp modes like DMM just strip away all of the pvp elements and implement pvm and skilling content

if u were around in 2015 dmm the overwhelming majority asked for dmm, it was literally like 90%+

but u are in redditmanmode era where ppl dont understand the games history

the pvp content is easily as important to the game as the pvm and skilling

despite whatever arbitrary amount of ppl are playing them at any given time

[ember token]

• pvp is not accessible to get into, too many different rules, basic controls function differently, most accessible learning environments are dead or filled with bots
• jagex's solution to getting people to engage with pvp is to add rewards that lure people who would rather not pvp into pvp environments, rather than helping players get into pvp

[languid ravine]

as a pvp enjoyer im losing interest even in watching other ppl play because they are just sitting in banks half the time having never ending fights

all they need to figure really is how to make the mode not revolve around mules and alts, while still being hardcore

[frozen lion]

many people don't like PvP because of risks even if they are small

[restive siren]

Well there is a reason most pvp centric mmos are either dead or have a tiny playerbase. And there is a reason why the big mmos strayed away from pvp in the last decade, they wouldnt all be doing that if it wasnt a commercially sound decision. In the end the mmo genre doesnt attract the most competitive players, those usually go to mobas or shooters etc.

[languid ravine]

pvp mmos are easily as hard or harder than other pvp games

[restive siren]

I want the pvp scene to survive and get good Updates but pretending its as important as pvm or skilling or that that would magically vastly increase the player numbers is a dream scenario

[ember token]

losing items just feels bad to a lot of people yeah, even despite the design of the wilderness letting you make back your losses so fast

[restive siren]

Correct but thats not relevant to what i said

[languid ravine]

there havent been any successful pvp games full stop in the past decade

last big one was fortnite

most are just rehashes of existing games, valorant is csgo, bf7 and cod and just copy pasting the same formula

[restive siren]

Same with mmos, again not sure where that is relevant

[languid ravine]

i mean u said 'big mmos strayed away from pvp in the last decade' while playing a 2007 mmo

its mmos as a whole that have been lacklustre

theyve been mostly cash grabby EA releases and flops like New World

and yet the best part about new world was the pvp which a handful of ppl stuck around for...

[frozen lion]

I'm surprised how there is only one safe pvp minigame which allows you to bring your own gear which is Castle Wars

Or maybe how there is STILL only one. PvP is fun where you can just go and whoop ass without thoughts about losing shit back in the head.

Ok, there is Soul Wars but it is either botted heavily or games are traded with cc.

[languid ravine]

yeah that is the great thing about runescape u have no risk pvp, low/high risk pvp, and then torture like dmm

alot of ppl do actually enjoy the threat of pvp even without being a pker themselves

and the fact escaping/tanking exists pretty much defeats the usual "prey vs predator" argument. especially when anti-pking exists

in 2015 dmm the 'predators' had to hide for 30 minutes before they could unskull, because its high risk high reward. they arent just seal clubbing they had to also deal with being hunted down by other pkers or ppl defending themselves

now this new version of dmm, you get immunity from pvp when u kill someone. which makes zero sense

[analog crow]

Clan wars also right?

Like if you go to clan wars you can actually just do pvp in your own gear, completely risk free.

Surely if the risk aspect was the only thing keeping people from having fun with pvp they'd go there and it would be popping off

Oh also Fight Pits

there are loads of such minigames actually

[frozen lion]

Of course not, but Castle Wars was fun to grind.

[analog crow]

Did you grind it properly or just afk it?

[meager flame]

wow is actually an interesting comparison because its very very similar to the problem that osrs has

it will never be allowed to be good because the game is mostly tuned and balanced for pve and thats what most of the players do

so the people who do stick around with pvp in both games feel neglected and demand more but they will most likely never ever get it

[hasty shard]

clan wars is like probably the most ideal thing for entry level pvp but i refuse to believe anyone is currently inside there

[frozen lion]

half/half

[meager flame]

both games are games where if the pvp was its own separate game both versions would probably be better

because the designers have some fundamental aversion to fully splitting the balancing from each other and they end up occasionally or even often holding each other back because a good idea for pvp isn't a good idea in pve and vice versa

[languid ravine]

thats their fault though

[meager flame]

and in both cases it basically turned into a very one sided situation in the end

[languid ravine]

its way better if there isnt separate rules for combat in pvp and pve

[hasty shard]

i feel like its impossible to strike that balance with osrs combat but also a lot of the pvp exceptions are silly

[meager flame]

in theory that sounds good but in practice

all it means is you'll never get what you really need

[languid ravine]

i mean making separate rules is just a band aid solution

[meager flame]

its the only realistic solution is the issue

they're not going to just balance the game to be great for pvp because it would cost them in pve

as long as they're chained together they will stop each other from being as good as they could be

[languid ravine]

thats just something uve made up

[meager flame]

nah its just because there are things you might want to change in pvp but it would make xyz situation in a raid different

turns out theres a billion more people in the raid

pvp change not even considered

[languid ravine]

your just gone back to "they shouldnt make a pvp game cos not everyone plays it"

which again defeats the point of a sandbox game

not every piece of content is for everybody

[meager flame]

yeah but when you're the minority thats how you logic your way into getting nothing

you'll never get the big changes that you want because it will change the game that way more people are playing

where if they were separate games you'd totally get the needed changes

[languid ravine]

that wouldnt be a sandbox game

[meager flame]

yeah but jagex is ultimately in the making money game at the end of the day

[languid ravine]

its like telling ironman players to play skyrim because runescape is multiplayer

[meager flame]

so they're more practical than the idealistic view of just like

doing things because its a sandbox to the detriment of most of their players

it just wont happen lol

[languid ravine]

its detrimental to the game to keep the game as a sandbox as it has been for 25 years?

[meager flame]

pvp has beeing getting owned for the past 13 years because its a minority

denied updates and things that would be good for it

[chrome lantern]

People use the term "sandbox" way too liberally

[languid ravine]

its rpg sandbox u start the game with no direction what to do

[frozen lion]

I still don't know what issue is with PvP except its being heavily botted in some cases or there could be more PvP minigames.

[meager flame]

the largest problem with pvp is the playerbase choking the life out of it because most of them dont want to pvp

[frozen lion]

Of course most people don't want to PvP.

[languid ravine]

u dont have to interact with pvp at all

just like every other part of the game

[frozen lion]

Well we don't have to play OSRS at all, but we have some Pve goals that are Pvp related.

[chrome lantern]

Not really

[meager flame]

but yeah this is just the typical story of a mostly pve game with a niche but dedicated pvp community

they'll fight forever but its hopeless

[languid ravine]

and the pve audience is a minority compared to the pvp games

so ur point being?

[frozen lion]

Not in OSRS though

Pve audience is majority here

HUGE majority

[languid ravine]

but it literally doesnt affect u if other parts of the game are expanded

it just gives u more content

[frozen lion]

Unless it collide with Pve as well

Wilderness is mix of both

so it affects both sides

[languid ravine]

why would u enter a pvp zone and not expect pvp

theres like a thousand other places u could go literally if u want to avoid pvp

[frozen lion]

Because there is Pve content there

[chrome lantern]

Extremely optional PvM content aside from maybe an hour or two to get all the CAs and diary tasks

And even those are optional

[meager flame]

yeah the reason for that though is that players put a stop to pvp content for the most part

[frozen lion]

Collection logs, pets, Voidwaker is bis in many Pve situations which requires you to grind bosses in PvP zone

[meager flame]

if we really loved as a community things like the wilderness and how they've designed things

we'd have 50 vws to go get

[chrome lantern]

All of those are optional, the GE exists, and voidwaker is pretty niche now

[languid ravine]

completionism requires you to complete ALL content, yea

why is that surprising

[chrome lantern]

^

BH should be in the clog too

[languid ravine]

i like pvp but i despise grinding so ive never gotten a 99

[chrome lantern]

And radiant/awakened clogs

[languid ravine]

i rather make alts than grind 99s

until jagex detects me as a botfarm lmao

[meager flame]

but yeah this is why a lot of people that pvp dont even play official osrs servers anymore

and haven't for a long time now

[frozen lion]

and i like going past 99s and not do pvp just for a sake of pvp

what is your point

[meager flame]

this was also going to be one of the few actually good things about zanaris if it had actually released

[frozen lion]

Stop forcing people who don't want to PvP into PvP

Simple as that

[meager flame]

pvp players would've finally had an outlet to make the pvp game they wanted if it had been robust enough

well

an official outlet

[chrome lantern]

There is zero forcing people into pvp though

Unless you just mean to remove all pvp content from the game, completionist goals will always include pvp

[frozen lion]

Well obviously no one is sticking gun next to their heads

No one has to do anything at all

There can be pvp completionism and pve completionism

Still I'd need to see specific ideas for changing pvp in order to see if they are good or bad, otherwise it's just general talking without any specifics.

Because so far I only see pvp playerbase wanting to bring more people into doing pvp.

And with mostly ideas that will make people who don't want to do pvp, do it regardless

[languid ravine]

i find it hard to believe that out of all the activities in the entire game, the only one someone dislikes in particular is pvp

[chrome lantern]

I wouldn't really say you're "doing PvP" if you enter the wilderness to kill bosses tbh

[languid ravine]

somehow having to deal with insanely long grinds is fine, but occasionally being mildly inconvenienced by a pker is bad

[frozen lion]

Yeah I'm not, I'm just forced into zone where I'm under threat of being PK'ed

[chrome lantern]

The game already pretty much wholly excludes PvP from completionism, the closest you get is LMS log but people boost that afaik

[frozen lion]

Still I'm pretty sure BH going into clog wouldn't pass the 70%

[chrome lantern]

Putting BH in clog wouldn't need to be a poll, the content already passed, it's more weird that it isn't in the clog

Like you don't separately poll adding a boss and adding its rewards to the clog

[frozen lion]

The content passed because it doesn't hurt Pve environment in any way.

[chrome lantern]

It still wouldn't

[frozen lion]

Some rich people probly do with help of boosting for some bills

I still see before my eyes the dude with 1000 wins and 250 kills on reddit

Anyway I just hope changes into pvp are about improving the experience without "forcing" into doing them by means of clogs/extreme gains with risk

[chrome lantern]

Ah yes I love being a completionist without completing all the content

[frozen lion]

Not everything needs to be done

Just like game doesn't "force" into doing solo tob

[chrome lantern]

Then don't do it

[frozen lion]

And I don't

[chrome lantern]

Then why are we complaining about the game "forcing" you into content

[frozen lion]

Well it is you who want change, not me

I'm fine as it is

I'm sure you are in favor that if there ever was completionist cape coming into OSRS it would require 200m in all skills as well.

[chrome lantern]

I would never want a completionist cape

[frozen lion]

I never said you would want it

But if it was coming into game it would have such a requirement to own it

[ember token]

(for reference, not even RS3 requires 200m in all skills for the master comp cape)

[frozen lion]

It doesn't require a lot of things.

Because completionism doesn't have to be absolute.

Like complete literally ALL content in all regards.

As long as game doesn't require you to do it it is not seen as part of completionism.

For same reason you can feel complete about PvM with Zuk helm and never done single ToB solo

Same reason probly most people wouldn't want achievment for Zuk helm about doing some stuff which literally only like 0.0001% playerbase do.

[vivid ruin]

200m cape dumb

[meager flame]

i honestly dont even really think theres anything wrong with comp cape existing

[keen oak]

Idk if anyone has mentioned, but there are no quest lamp rewards from AKD @steel bobcat

[meager flame]

you'll either get it or you wont but either way i dont see a downside

[ember token]

been mentioned many times, but pinging modmail is not how you contact modmail, and modmail doesn't go to jmods, it goes to the discord mods as its for discord issues

[keen oak]

tbh i don't know the tech so just did my best

ty tho

[idle rapids]

nah no one does it like that you make 7 alts and do it with 3 others, 1+3, you each profit a few hundred million and it takes about 160 hours

people have even made guides for levelling the alts

[frozen lion]

you need 20 chars with several requirements to do private games exclusively

all needing membership as well

[idle rapids]

Yeah it’s 24 people, like I said you and 3 others make 7 alts

That’s 3 people playing 8 accs, 24 characters total

The requirements aren’t steep I got most of my accts levelled fully in F2P

[austere mulch]

For the membership, not sure if it’s still around, but you used to be able to do a 24hr membership trial for $1

A few people did that for grid master speeds runs

[icy relic]

as someone who has comp

do not ever bring it here

just add 80+s grandmaster skill reqs

[austere mulch]

Just don’t tie it to col log and it’s prob alright. Though I think being gilded log isn’t super unreasonable for a comp cape type of prestige

Gm, quest, diary, music, champion cape, max and gilded log id be ok with

[icy relic]

Clogging/zuk helm is already harder than comp ever was

Trimmed is a different beast though

[hard axle]

and you know what's sad, zuk helm isn't even what it could be

same for clog

no solo tob, no full radiant, no 100 pizza or oathplate contract, no shard/worm contracts

no all invo toa

clog is the same - no BH uniques, no blorva, no radiant, no graceful recolors, no temp game mode uniques

giga dumbed down

[chrome lantern]

Quest speedrun in clog when

[hollow pumice]

intentional

atleast for dmm

[hard axle]

solo tob and solo hmt on zuk helm when

[meager flame]

that stuff is understandable to not be on there because its like

player created difficulty thats not actually something jagex provided so they kinda get a pass on not including it

the radiant stuff though is insane

thats official jagex content lol

[hasty shard]

lowkey wouldnt mind solo tob being a ca but they really need to trim the fat

why is 'enter bloat opposite side' a ca

[frozen lion]

Seriously it would be better if attractor was attachment to cannons instead of a new facility.. unless we get keg upgrade which lets us store more types of drinks for multiple buffs

[icy relic]

radiant should definitely be on there

it's absolutely fair content

but I guess it's also significantly harder than most GM CAs

[fossil epoch]

is this a runelite problem? been there for quite some time now

[ancient apex]

Probably da gpu plugin

[hasty shard]

honestly no

the requirement is basically
a) can you do perfect yama
b) can you do donofly but a slightly different pattern

[fossil epoch]

not using it though

[blissful topaz]

when are we getting the left click bury bone option?

[ember token]

any day now for sure

[weary copper]

thats a problem on default client for a long time ye

i think they at least solved the sliding hands animation

[upbeat seal]

I have an issue ingame, where I cant see any players or any NPC's

can anyone help?

even if I switch worlds. And the same issue in all 4 of my accounts. even if they are opened simultaneously

[tacit wharf]

turn entity hider off

[upbeat seal]

lol thanks!

[topaz maple]

hey why is herb rannar weed dropping

was there new update or something

[ember token]

?

[nocturne solstice]

Its dropped like, 100gp man.
That's like, nothing.

[ember token]

went up a bit around dmm, settling back again as people start to be done with dmm

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah going by the charts looks like a supply issue cause of DMM

[topaz maple]

it used to belike 6k lol

i got fair bit to train herb now in big loss due price drop

when does DMM finish ?

[ember token]

12 days

[ember token]

well, lot of things went down in the lead up to as well as after the sailing launch, basically anything that wasn't directly used for it

[analog crow]

Aquanites drop ranarr seeds
Dunno if that tanked the price a bit

[nocturne solstice]

Last time it was 6k was November last year, it's been a long time dude.

[dreamy fractal]

prices change all the time just fyi, it's a living economy

never plan too far ahead with specific prices

[winged mantle]

The supply is weird

The seeds are less traded now

[uneven lodge]

With the new sailing island, can we have a reward to upgrade gem bag to include red topaz etc.? Would tie nicely with sailing/salvaging. Increased gem count 60 to 120/240 and then include other gems as well.

[analog crow]

You can bank your topazes using imp boxes. You don’t need the gem bag for them.

[idle rapids]

Thats a massive waste of time lol

I hope you're joking

[kind surge]

might as well remove all inventory storage items since you can bank everything with imp boxes

[orchid temple]

Bank the salvage if you want the special gems ez

[analog crow]

Completely up to you
Getting imp boxes is quick enough
Spend an hour or two and you’ll have enough to last you to 99 sailing probably

Or you can sail back and bank

Btw can we get bottomless log basket so I won’t have to run to the bank when woodcutting?

[chrome lantern]

It would be much faster to just go mine gems for a short time than catch impa

[analog crow]

How many topaz can you mine in an hour?

IIRC I can catch like 300 imps per hour in varlamore

[chrome lantern]

Approximately 180 but you also get 100k mining xp/hr and many other gems

[bronze kernel]

Imp Boxes are a funny tech

[vivid ruin]

I love imp boxes lol. Its such an underrated item in the game. I use them when hunting blk chins

[analog crow]

They are seriously underrated

[idle rapids]

So not even earning 1m GP/hr, which is pretty awful unless you’re a newbie

I’d rather save the imp boxes for smth else

[analog crow]

My brother in Christ we are talking about collecting topazes from salvaging

Ofc it’s peanuts

[idle rapids]

No were talking about opportunity cost

Gathering imp boxes for 2 hours to make under 2m isn’t a good use of time

[analog crow]

Yet this is people’s argument for giga buffing gem sack

[idle rapids]

Idc if they let people put topaz in gem sack tbh, the mains that are upset that they’re missing a few million GP, would be upset when the topaz crash 90% and they’re only making a few hundred K

Best case scenario it’s just catering to irons

[kind surge]

why are they "giga buffing" herb sack then, that one is arguably more powerful of a buff

can easily add an upgrade of the gem bag from somewhere meaningful like how they're doing it for the herb sack

[analog crow]

I voted no to the herb sack upgrade

[hard axle]

tbf, most herbs are noted

they won't undo this either

[kind surge]

not for slayer I don't think

they updated most slayer monsters' noted herb drops to be unnoted

[narrow folio]

I will continue to use sack on herb runs and no one can stop me mwahaha

[hard axle]

ur... supposed to?

please tell me ur herb sack has been open and the herbs automatically go in

when u do herb runs on an iron, ur supposed to do a split of different seeds so it minimizes having to note at the leprechaun

i did snaps at the protected/increased yields patch and ranarrs at the generic ones

after the herb sack increase, u wont need to leprachaun them at all

[bronze kernel]

Not sure why they keep making these changes. Make herbs noted so they can't be used with the sack. But make them unnoted so they can.

Jagex just pick a side.

For general Slayer or trash mobs, keep them unnoted

Keep noted herb stacks a boss thing

Easiest way to resolve this

[hard axle]

Let noted herbs be used on herb sack after expansion

[hasty shard]

90% of osrs players can't play one move ahead in chess

[dreamy fractal]

Using herb sack for herb runs do be sounding like some insane behaviour at the moment tbf, you do 2 types of seeds, one good you don't want to die and one bad you don't mind, so Inventory space is the same. Noting once on the leprechaun per patch is whatever, not like 30 herbs atm won't fill up from your 4-5 patches of each herb

With 60 herbs could see it being marginally higher qol tho sure

[bronze kernel]

Having it be 100 should cover all patches once you get the upgrade

[winged mantle]

You'll still need to note at the last one if all don't die

[dreamy fractal]

not if you use 2 different seeds

with one ye, could fill up

[bronze kernel]

Depends on your RNG TBH

[winged mantle]

Trueee

Ranarr only runs wcyd

Still waiting for the god herb run of 120+ herbs

[meager flame]

im kinda worried they're gonna fumble the new megarare pitch

[chrome lantern]

Herb sack upgrade seems so pointless

[winged mantle]

I'll get a use for it

At least they always tweak suggestions if it's not the right fit (ignore shadow)

[meager flame]

idk if you guys listened to the podcast with arcane but they were basically talking about hypotheticals so its not that serious but

[winged mantle]

I have not 👀

What's the tldr

[meager flame]

they were talking about what if the next megarare was basically a big ballista and if it would be okay if it took 40 to 70% of the tbows niche

and thats worrying because like lol

[winged mantle]

Hmmmm

[meager flame]

why even ask that question theres never been a megarare armor piece or shield or spec weapon

why just bomb existing megarare niches instead

[winged mantle]

For sure.

I feel like it has to be crush or a new melee style (imo).

Would be down for a melee style that's echo/ phantom hits

[meager flame]

i just think they have wayyyyy too many directions to go in where they don't have to directly impact the current weapons

to choose one with that big of an impact

on existing stuff

[winged mantle]

Yeah

I'd love if they just put all the cards on the table - all ideas and we vote

[meager flame]

i think they do plan on something like that

[winged mantle]

Then narrow and refine

[meager flame]

he talked about it a little bit where basically

they dont know what to do for rewards (lol)

[winged mantle]

I just want cool stuff

[meager flame]

so they're just gonna like

put up polls and shit for us to give them ideas i think more or less

[winged mantle]

New armour and new mega for new combat style

[meager flame]

i sort of see why they dont know what to do

megarare aside which i think you could easily just go

[winged mantle]

Spoiled for choice

[meager flame]

yeah lets get idk a spec weapon or a big cool shield

thats not too hard

but the rest of the table

thats pretty hard lol

[winged mantle]

Yar

I think you just build around the style you want to give the mega for

Then add items that uave a great use where there is space

[meager flame]

i mean they could even go crazy and just put something insane in a blessing slot

[winged mantle]

Ammo slot/ shield/ spec etc

Yeye

[meager flame]

i think just based on the theme of the raid for other loot

probably some way to make a guthix godsword could be one of the common drops

and theres gotta be space for an upgraded melee prayer

or some kind of prayer

[winged mantle]

Prayer could be the mega

Or one of the rewards

[meager flame]

the armor sets are hard because like

[winged mantle]

God allignments just not what they polled

[meager flame]

it kind of cant be magic or range

[winged mantle]

Agreed

[meager flame]

unless they want to put this raid on like a full extra tier of progression

[winged mantle]

Could be guthix infused melee set with a unique effect

[meager flame]

and use the other raid rewards to upgrade the items that come from this one

then i guess they could do anything

bc thats probably going to happen eventually

idk if its raids 4

[winged mantle]

If it has particle effects I'm down

[meager flame]

but 5 or 6 is probably going to run into the problem where basically

[winged mantle]

Probably controversial

[meager flame]

they really cant devalue older raids but they dont have space left

so it has to start upgrading those items

[winged mantle]

Yeah

Hmmm

Could be new gear for light/ heavy ranged, stab, new melee style, elemental. There's a lot of ways they can go as you've said

Excited to see what they cook up. Just hope it's not burnt

[meager flame]

yeah another thing with raid loot is that usually

its not super niche

they're usually very good and widely applicable items

so like you'd really expect to get torva and not inquisitor if it were coming from a raid

[winged mantle]

They might have to if not bringing out new weapon types tho

We already have torva, anc and masori

Is there room for a new bis generalist set for 1 of the 3

[meager flame]

i mean i think you could probably do one for melee

which is crazy because melee is also the oldest prayer that they probably should replace

its just that melee is going to get really good if they do that stuff lol

[winged mantle]

Mmmm

[meager flame]

the only reason you could probably replace torva etc for melee is because all of the sets people use come from like

unimportant content

at least compared to raids

[winged mantle]

What about a set that's a glass cannon melee

[meager flame]

we'd definitely all just use it

the big mistake is honestly

nex shouldn't have dropped torva

[winged mantle]

Yeah

[meager flame]

that is the armor that should be in a raid

[winged mantle]

Agreed

I hated the nex grind

Better now

But oml

[meager flame]

i guess they do have a completely open lane if they wanted to go with god themed stuff

and just do like

a sol spear type of thing with a prayer armor set etc

idk how that would even fit in with the rest of the game but its something they haven't really done

[dreamy fractal]

it's also really difficult to make it be melee, because they decided to add full melee armorsets to nex, yama and nightmare all that fills various melee niches

you've literally just got a stab-specialized melee armor set left

[meager flame]

i mean if they were nuts but really wanted to do the right thing

make a set thats better than all of those by like 5% and make you combine it with justi

[dreamy fractal]

While I get the "lets not base everything on iron"-sentiment, I think making it combine with Justi when TOB is the one raid that's simply not realistically soloable is a bad shout

[meager flame]

its because justi as a raid set is completely worthless and wasted

[dreamy fractal]

that sorta forces your hand to do tob if you want to reap the rewards from archive

Yeah I don't disagree at all

Personally I'd rather that justi upgraded inquisitor to be proper level 75 or whatever armor defensively

[meager flame]

i imagine it would work like modern upgrades do

[dreamy fractal]

so we had oathplate/inqui in the exact same space

but for 2 different styles

[meager flame]

where its generally already a really good item

but it becomes bis when you upgrade it

like the boots from doom or masori

[dreamy fractal]

Powecreep is also obviously a concern, but I wouldn't be angry if they decided an unlockable upgrade from archive would be something like splitting rings into 2 slots - one for stats, one for effects. You've kind of already got the ones with minor cantrip effects that change stuff up (suffering, ROTG, lightbearer, wealth etc), and then you've got the obvious competition in just raw stats (ultor, bellator and its ilk)

Would potentially also open up for more reward space down the line

because you can then design rings with fun effects

[languid ravine]

lightbearer is pretty awesome

[dreamy fractal]

and they aren't competing with the fucking berserker ring from 2005

and losing

cos it's just not +2 max hit

[meager flame]

you'd probably have to split it like combat vs utility

otherwise just lock in lb forever

[dreamy fractal]

Yeah that's what I said was it not ? did I mistype

or

[meager flame]

well you had lb in the second slot

and you kinda cant do that unless its intended to just only ever be lb in that slot

it has to compete with ultor etc basically

[dreamy fractal]

Or you design cantrip effects that compete with lightbearer

[meager flame]

you could but they'd be pretty insane

[dreamy fractal]

blood fury power without a blood fury for example, some kind of vampire leech ring

I don't disagree that LB is powerful - the fact that it can compete with stuff like ultor at times prove that

but I do also recognize that it's getting more and more difficult to fill out niches

it's just a case of how far are they willing to go in terms of powercreep - further up the tiers of armor/weapons, or add more potential slots and stay at this level for a while longer while filling out that

[meager flame]

tbf its not even that hard they just dont want to do what they have to do ultimately

just delaying the inevitable where they upgrade to a new tier basically

[dreamy fractal]

Yeah I don't necessarily disagree

the fact that the general consensus seem to be that megas cannot be overtaken in terms of power is a hard thing to play around

[meager flame]

some people even want them to just add a trinket slot

[dreamy fractal]

I mean, to be fair

that's basically what I described, no?

[meager flame]

they obv play wow because we all know that you can just make trinkets do anything

yeah ring slot could just be code for trinket

depending on what they decide those rings do

[dreamy fractal]

Yeah, I mean that's also why I used the word cantrip I guess

wow weapons and items with special effects are called cantrip effects

[languid ravine]

vengeance trinket 🙏

[meager flame]

we could do the same thing to the ammo slot

and blessings

thats probably the best thematic for the god raid but lol

[languid ravine]

i never heard the word cantrip used like this thats good to know

[dreamy fractal]

I feel kind of bad about that one though because it just means ranged gets shafted entirely - which may be fine given how relatively dominant it is as a style atm, and bloodseeker arrows etc inc

[meager flame]

range would be fine mostly because of quiver

[dreamy fractal]

but using the ammo slot for powerups when one style is dependant on putting shit in that slot somewhat sucks

[meager flame]

granted you do have to get a quiver but

if this is a megarare thats not too crazy to ask

[dreamy fractal]

(and yes I know quiver somewhat alleviates it, but it means you're basically saying "unless you are done with colo, what the fuck are you doing in this raid lol")

[meager flame]

only if you tried to use it while ranging

it would work immediately for melee/magic/any range without ammo

well

without ammo in the ammo slot

[dreamy fractal]

bowfa

[meager flame]

which is a lot of range before tbow

[dreamy fractal]

a lot less these days with scorcher but yea

[meager flame]

it probably fits mostly

the people most concerned with that issue that also have that item from a raid

are probably people that need to go to colo anyways

if they didnt already

[dreamy fractal]

but yeah, they already somewhat did the trinket/cantrip thing in the ammo slot as well

with ghommals penny

[meager flame]

thats the saddest item in my bank lmao

idk why they did the penny so dirty

[dreamy fractal]

Im not saying it's a good trinket/cantrip

But proof of concept

is proof of concept

[meager flame]

yeah

[languid ravine]

whats wrong with penny? just not worth using or

[meager flame]

basically

almost any time you think it might be useful

it doesn't even work

lmao

[languid ravine]

ah it doesnt work with alot of items?

[meager flame]

yeah they basically choose certain charged items it cant work for

and that list includes almost everything you'd even care about

its interesting too because the chance to save is so low that even when it does work

its probably less valuable to you than just a radas blessing prayer bonus or the extra ammo slot for rubies or whatever

[languid ravine]

yeah they could go and manually balance each and every item i suppose with diff %s

i see it can be attached to defender

that helps i suppose to keep things relevant if u can attach them onto things

[ember token]

blood fury prob being the biggest thing it doesn’t work for

[analog crow]

Flamtaer bracelet though! 🥰
Worthy reward for master cas

[ember token]

to be fair it works for quite a lot, much more than it doesnt work for (and you can see there's not much here that people would actually care about it working for)

[wild epoch]

When cow

[ember token]

i believe they said it could come to the game very quickly if it passes, which it did

should be this month

[zinc galleon]

aldarium going through the roof, mastering mixology might be a good moneymaker now, won't ever go back after goggles and amulet tho tbh xd

i imagine it's because bots getting crushed

[shadow wave]

Or the bots have moved to DMM and are swapping for GP

[zinc galleon]

it has been goin up since end of december

[analog crow]

Isn’t the barrel still better go per hr?

[zinc galleon]

idk haven't done the math, just a passing observation

[slim rain]

Just wanted to thank the osrs mods for doing the one update I had requested so many years ago. That stray dog and Charlie were made for each other. I fed it so many dead guard bones over the years, every single time I entered Varrock's Western gate. Thank you. So much. For giving those two some love and family.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who always loved that dog ❤️

[tawny tide]

Are we really still juts on "boat Ava's" as the only shop combat fix?

Or is that just the first step

[obsidian venture]

Shoutout to dead guard bones fr

[remote ruin]

blood fury is kind of a big one, I feel.

[ember token]

yeah i said that myself too

but it’s really just that

[hard axle]

you know what's wild, it really isn't even that big

to just allow it

it's a freaking master tier reward

it works on shadow/scythe, but god forbid blood fury lmao

[remote ruin]

imo it should just be a thing that you get as a passive, instead of a equippable item that you have to sacrifice a slot for

[hard axle]

same for a lot of the double fish or double logs or double chins not counting for additional pet rolls - those are bigger than BF ngl

[hard axle]

nah, i think slot sacrifice is fine or just give it +2 prayer bonus

progressive unlocks good

[meager flame]

the big problem with it is that a lot of the time that you're just not going to equip it because saving a few charges is not a combat stat

[hard axle]

Its only main competition is a secondary ammo and Rada blessing.

Until we get damage blessings, it’s fine

[meager flame]

yeah but nobody does it

they wear blessings or just ammo 99% of the time lol

so most of the time you're looking at weird situations to even equip it in the first place

[winged mantle]

I use the penny over blessing when using shadow or scy 🤷‍♀️

A full shadow and you get 1k casts for free sure

[frail bough]

more farming without demonic digger? nty

[winged mantle]

I still hate how reddit stopped us from getting that item

[obsidian venture]

Will never use penny

But also main so useless

[winged mantle]

For irons it's worth using

[thorn mountain]

Do people still recruit using their “Join {name}” message in clan wars ? And war in purple portal ?

[true talon]

As i got into brackets were brews healed properly, DMM became infinitely worst, so its clear brews are why pvp is so bad

b1 with 50 hp an no1 using brews to heal to 99 hp every single hit while auto casting barrage

was way better than any other bracket

[hard axle]

if jagex weren't cowards to reddit complaints

it would have 2 melee str on it

it's a master tier CA reward

god forbid long grinds have a tangible reward at the end of it in 2026

[hasty shard]

one of the worst reddit moments ngl

mainly because it was tied with people just being fucking wrong about the farmer wander changes

[winged mantle]

Alright fine scrap the demonic digger but give us the diabolical dibber (plants 3 seeds per patch for total seed growth time - aka 3 seeds = 360 mins)

[meager flame]

was that even a reddit moment

it was more like a gnomonkey moment for the digger unfortunately

dudes basically paraphrased his video when talking about not wanting daily scape for... farming

lol

which you know fair enough for him

really more of a jagex moment

when someone opens up their video explaining how they dont even want/like farming to begin with and dont like the concept of farming things i mean lol

thats on jagex if they listen to that and just don't give farming any content worth talking about

[thick beacon]

feel like the problem was first impression after balance changes it was fine imo

[winged mantle]

they could have gutted the xp and it would have been great

[thick beacon]

there was ways to mke it work ye

imo i dont think it even was an issue the moment u couldint insta harvest anything theres no way that could compete with trees

[weary stag]

The digger broke the economy

Fuck jagex for scrapping it tho

Cowards

[round lintel]

LMAO Reagent pouch doesnt work in DMM

[iron oak]

5 more minutes 💔

[rose kiln]

My xp smh

[slender wharf]

Game up when?

[pine haven]

soon

[slender wharf]

Nice

[pine haven]

i can finally shower

and no xp waste

[violet delta]

GAMES UP

https://tenor.com/view/trollface-gif-8242347154758580084

[pine haven]

man this guy knows comedy

[swift breach]

What they broke this time?

[arctic kestrel]

LATE

[tight eagle]

Why are the maintenances happening while im at work..? What am i supposed to do now, work?

[arctic kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-spongebob-squarepants-mr-krabs-late-again-youre-late-gif-7064308178356164976

[analog crow]

they need to roll back some of your drops

[arctic kestrel]

damn 3 mins i would of got a tbow

[swift breach]

Glad ive been salvaging for the past 2 weeks. Maybe they can give me some rng with it

[tiny harbor]

Maybe they can give me my enhance weapon seed that I'm over 2x dry for

[arctic kestrel]

did u do a spin before opening the chest?

[tiny harbor]

Oh is that the hack?

[arctic kestrel]

yesh

[halcyon swallow]

GG could have had it at 10kc

[split sluice]

Good to know

[halcyon swallow]

Got mine at 8

never went back

[arctic kestrel]

u did a spin didnt u.

howd u know

[tiny harbor]

Welp, can't try it now they're patching it 😛

[arctic kestrel]

keep getting this weird error connecting to server

[halcyon swallow]

State secret

[meager flame]

tbf a lot of people probably dont use discord like that

however

[arctic kestrel]

30 mins!!!

[meager flame]

if they did anything that makes sense like look at the launcher or the website

they would know

[shadow wave]

I mean not to accuse OSRS players of not reading but a short update on a Tuesday ~9AM is literally the least popular time according to that poll

[arctic kestrel]

ONLINE!!

[weary stag]

Can someone read this too me xD

Did I misread it

[shut dew]

How do you get the role to see server status?

[meager flame]

the insane thing to me is they asked for feedback on when they should update the game

[opal oar]

most popular time for australians

[halcyon swallow]

Mod Ash gives it

[meager flame]

like

bro update your game at the best time to keep the game running they have way more information for a decision than any of us do lmao

[shadow wave]

Tuesday is the least likely day for people to play, between 3AM and 12PM UTC is the least likely time to play, and although players would prefer Monday or Wednesday for updates, Tuesday is only slightly behind them

[knotty pulsar]

Couldn't be at a more inconvenient time for us Aussies

[floral willow]

yet again give us a time and double it lol

[opal oar]

Aussies getting shafted again

[weary stag]

Maths is hard xd

Ty for correcting haha

[meager flame]

yeah of course

they're gonna have to pick the time that they're at work and the least number of players are online

[opal oar]

Why can't jogex shaft America? They deserve to be stitched up

[meager flame]

so aus is probably getting owned forever

[ashen nova]

simple, really. we are the center of the world.

[opal oar]

the same way Germany was centre of the world in the early 1940s kekw

[sharp cave]

they are a uk company, they do their work during uk times

[brave garnet]

why did i had to be in an open area with valuable loot in dmm.....

am gonna get pked as soon as i log i know

[opal oar]

do it in 4hrs time when aussies are asleep :)

[untold harness]

Which area, so i can tell you if it's safe or nah?

[meager flame]

yeah but then their us/eu players are either getting on or have been online

[sharp cave]

anyway they also polled this

[meager flame]

and since theres way more of them

thats not happening

[brave garnet]

lmaooo

[ashen nova]

Australia is a very good ally of America, without us, you'd still be a British prison colony. You're welcome.

[opal oar]

take one for the team

[meager flame]

i am im awake rn arent i lol

this isn't the best time for me but

it makes sense

[opal oar]

literally 0 to do with America. You're delusional.

[ashen nova]

Hey man, enjoy your tim tams and vegemite in peace. We will allow you do so.

[mint isle]

well, i guess if the UK company do an update at 9am their time, when they bug the b'whatits out of it, they've got the rest of the work day to fix it

[meager flame]

put up the raids 4 reward blog you cowards

we need something to talk about

lmao

[cyan niche]

yo wtf

are we gonna breach

[vapid vault]

Its fucking hilarious every update thtey think it will be done in 20 minutes and always takes like fukcing hours

[dusk fossil]

it's not taken hours yet relax

we are 19 minutes late

[brave garnet]

well.....

[dusk fossil]

all is well

[meager flame]

tbf to jagex they had virtually instant updates for almost two decades before this started happening

[worn peak]

i just unsubbed my 1300 accounts, gg jamflex ull be hearing from my lawyer(s)