game-update

[stray oasis]

But rather a repeatable minigame

[hoary verge]

What ever happend with that Project Zanaris

[inner pelican]

canned

[languid ravine]

letting players compete with the main game prob wont turn out well xd

or just way too much scope

iirc u still needed to be a member to play it so also not really true private servers

[icy relic]

it's just bingo tools

so you don't need people to post screenshots to prove their drops

[rare grotto]

tell that to my friend the engagement number chasing game developer!

[grave schooner]

I don’t know if this is the right place to note this but there seems to be a spelling inconsistency in the “The Blood Moon Rises - Overview” blog in the section about “Stymphikes” where the text mentions the above spelling but the concet art by Mod Grub exclusively mentions an alternate spelling, “Strymphike”

[wet smelt]

am i wrong in thinking that the new flail will barely be better than whip?

like, i get that its probably going to be the only usable weapon, but from what i can tell its going to be about 15 more accuracy and like 1 to 2 max hit

idk if thats as valuable as its implied to be

[tropic island]

the bludgeon?

I'd love to see a normal weapon like that bludgeon, it looks so sick

[shadow wave]

It's a spec weapon, not a main hand weapon

Hence why it's being heavily compared to d claws

[tropic island]

oh mb I cant read

[restive siren]

might have changed from the concept art stage

we will see ingame

[tropic island]

I know, just looks cool

[shadow wave]

Oh, or do you mean the blisterwood flail upgrade? In that case, yes, but as it's the only weapon usable for vyres it's still a substantial upgrade

It's immaterial to compare it with a whip because you're not using it at the same content

[wet smelt]

i said flail

[shadow wave]

Both are flails

[wet smelt]

the other is a mace iirc

its called mudgeon

[shadow wave]

It's a flail, it's a spiked ball on a chain. They're calling it a bludgeon though to avoid having two items named flail in the same update I guess

[wet smelt]

still, calling it a "great choice for vampiric targets" sorta seems disingenuous

when its dps is going to be whip with like 1-2 more max hit

meanwhile dragon and demon weapons are much stronger than salad blade and such

as a finale it seems like a weak upgrade

[shadow wave]

Well gearscape should have it programmed in by tomorrow so we can run proper calcs then

[wet smelt]

it has the same stats as the ragular flail

just change the ticks to 4 instead of 5

[fiery matrix]

+25% accuracy and damage though no?

[wet smelt]

flail already has +25% damage

[tropic island]

pretty reasonable increase just there

[wet smelt]

5% acc

[fiery matrix]

So just a big accuracy increase

[wet smelt]

flails stats are like 46 accuracy and 46 str

still

it competes with the whip

[fiery matrix]

You cant use a whip on vyres

[wet smelt]

im saying that the blog talks about it likke its going to be an emberlight level of power

but its not even close

maybe at absolute max gear with oathplate/torva its gonna beat the tentwhip

[tropic island]

mmm thats fair, maybe a unique drop from venators that pushes it to the level that ember is for demons?

or move that upgrade simply to that. It feels weird the whole anti-vamp is untradeable

[cyan garnet]

do we have any idea on how long protection will last upon beginning in the dmm servers?

[wet smelt]

iirc it was like 4 hours last time

[cyan garnet]

I think it was 1h last time

[wet smelt]

at least now i wont lose all my willow logs (10 of them) to the people camping draynor bank

[vivid ruin]

Do you guys think WGS req will keep most bots out of raids 4?

[restive siren]

no

[ionic tartan]

"Most", yes. But there are a ton of bots, and there's still going to be a huge botfarm for it once they figure out what gets past detection.

[cyan garnet]

at this point the bots can do anything

[restive siren]

TD bots have existed since WGS came out lmao

[vivid ruin]

True. I guess itd take them a longer time to reset if caught than say, green dragon bots and you hope they get caught along the way but eh

[restive siren]

i mean sure but if you can play 24 hours a day wgs isnt exactly insane

[vivid ruin]

Yeah true

[sage yacht]

Know it wasn’t in the summit roadmap but did they even hint at a PvP update besides a potential PvP island?

[vivid ruin]

I believe the "ocean expansion" is a hint to open up wilderness waterways, but im just assuming so

[sage yacht]

1hour and it should be another hour per bracket you enter into

[cyan garnet]

thanks

[sage yacht]

Ah interesting. Thanks

[vivid ruin]

Im actually speculating that it means opening wilderness water ways + potential raids 5 (cursed archipelago) in the next few years

I know getting the combat down is top priority before hand which is what they're working on early this year

[floral blaze]

Nothing

2026 is set to be an action-packed year for PvP events, so make sure to give Deadman: Annihilation a go, tune in to Deadman: All-Stars 3 (or come to the Finale in person) and stay tuned for other events throughout the year!

[weary stag]

Haha a single 2 week event and 1 event that you can watch!

Pvp is eating this year!

[tiny otter]

god I wish it was starving instead of getting "scraps"

[restive storm]

scraps so small it is starving dont u worry about that

[novel hazel]

In the most recent blog post (Winter Summit), they mention the API delay. However, they say if you're interested in keeping up with it to visit the Discord. They link, however, to the RuneScape discord (not the OSRS one). The form to submit interest as a modder/dev also specifically says RuneScape (i.e. RS3 I think), not OSRS. Does anyone know if that form is only for RS3? Or is there a separate one in this channel somewhere for people interested in making plugins for the new client in OSRS?

I want to make plugins for the new OSRS client and keep up to date with that as much as possible, but I don't want to subscribe for updates just for the RS3 client and not OSRS. 😅

[ember token]

Throughout the project we saw so many enthusiastic community members eager and ready to get their hands on our API to begin developing. While our project is on pause, RuneScape's API project is just revving up. If you'd like to find out more about the project and how to get involved, head over to the plugins channel in the official RuneScape Discord server.

RuneScape = RS3

its not about OSRS

[novel hazel]

Okay so the post is saying, "we are delaying on RS3 API while we work on OSRS Hd renderer" ? Seems a bit confusing, but thanks for the clarification!

[ember token]

no

that section specifically that I quoted

is about RS3

they are putting the OSRS plugin API on pause, and they are now working on a plugin API for RS3

they announced the rs3 plugin api a week or so ago with their content roadmap

[minor whale]

They paused OSRS api and are ramping up RS3 api
Which is stupid but here we are

[novel hazel]

Okay, that makes more sense. Thank you. Is there anywhere to express interest in the OSRS plugin API when it is worked on again... eventually?

[ember token]

beyond just like, social media, idk

i think there is/was an invite only discord about the plugin API

which if you didnt get in like, 2 years ago now, it's probably too late

[novel hazel]

Ah, thanks. I'll lookout for future updates. Thanks @ember token and @minor whale !

[minor whale]

Imagine being one of those plugin devs that spent the work converting their plugins to Lua already and then Jagex said "loljk it's paused now (paused to Jagex means never coming)"

[novel hazel]

Yeah I'm a seasoned dev just getting my feet wet in the plugin community and I have some ideas for some plugins and was unsure whether to jump in with Java/RuneLite or wait to see what comes down the pipe for the new client. Originally I was leaning towards waiting, but since it's on pause I'll probably just go with RuneLite plugins and can port them over later when Jagex has the API near ready.

[minor whale]

Probably the safer bet yeah

Which is highly disappointing
Official plugins would have driven WAY more people to switch to official client than HD would

HD will pull in people who don't play the game then they get told to use Runelite, and they'll just either quit when it doesn't look as good or they get sketched out by using a 3rd party client

[ember token]

i wonder if it's on pause partially because mod genghis left, or if they let him go BECAUSE they were gonna put it on pause lol

[minor whale]

Think he was also big on Project Zanaris

Might have been "hey we've put both of your projects on pause sooooo uhhh"

[ember token]

not sure about that, to my knowledge he only worked on official client stuff

[minor whale]

Oh you're right

I remember him being one of the best presenters at Runefest

I really hope someone steps into the role for official plugin support

[hollow dirge]

I feel like hooded slayer helm should have been an unlock once you hit 99 and not cost 1K points. You don't need a head or recolour for it. It should be a cosmetic reward for mastery. Everything else has a head to combine with the helm which you pay to essentially learn to make, but it isn't too hard to figure out how to put a hood over a helmet lmao. Thoughts? 🙂

[tacit wharf]

im really tore on voting yes/no for a new BT, a higher level course just wouldnt have the xp space for it (i feel) since gg already gives so much

[hollow dirge]

Did they say it was going to be a higher level course?

[tacit wharf]

no exactly, but would make the most sense

since tt 30
jj is 50
gg 70

[hollow dirge]

I feel like if they bridge the gap between TT or JJ and have it be med xp for new cosmetics or something could be alright

room for a 40 or 60 course

[torpid delta]

just slap it in the same range as jj so we can ignore that course thanks

[hollow dirge]

one thing I love about the skill is the alternatives for training

[hollow dirge]

FR lol

I didnt even feel accomplished when I beat JJ, I just thought it was an annoying course and was relieved it was done

got my upgrades and went to salvage

[tacit wharf]

rather they just improve jj then

[torpid delta]

every day i wake up thankful gg was the high level course instead of jj

[tacit wharf]

not that its as bad as people make it out to be

[restive sapphire]

jj was fine apart from the fucking orange post

[hollow dirge]

Yeah for sure, I was doing it pretty early on release prior to wiki guide and all. Learning it without guidance wasnt fun, with the guides it's not that bad

[torpid delta]

im just still traumatized by having literally 4 fps before they fixed it, ignore my whinging

[hollow dirge]

I think they could improve it visually, it was hard to tell when you actually tagged a post or missed it or misclicked

[tacit wharf]

also wtf kind of question is that for a mode that is suppose to be limited space

[hollow dirge]

just delete UIM

[shadow wave]

That's the main feedback from the UIM playerbase, if that's what they want then why not?

[tacit wharf]

not even a multi question on how much space, just a yes/no

[hollow dirge]

because we want UIMs to suffer just as much as they want to suffer

[shadow wave]

They explain in the blog that they considered polling options but the overwhelming feedback was just to remove all restrictions so they decided to just poll that

If it fails then they can reassess smaller increases

[tacit wharf]

i mean of course people would vote yes to that

its like polling if we wanted 1hr clue despawn timers after we already had them

[minor whale]

UIMs almost never vote to increase their capacities btw

But for sailing it's such a detrimental part of the skill to have locked

In normal game you can get by with tailoring your inventory to where you have plenty of space for normal activities and healing and combat as a UIM

But UIMs are basically locked out of doing sailing combat because they get a grand total of 8 healing on their ships

[bronze kernel]

The problem is the restrictions pretty much prevent UIM from meaningfully interacting with the skill since almost all of it is balanced around access to the cargo hold

[flat sierra]

What's even the issue. Oh no UIMs can store checks notes cannonballs and boat healing. Sailing focused items.

Crazy stuff

[bronze kernel]

I think it could be the salvage that might be the thing they are more concerned about it

But let's be honest

[flat sierra]

Lol, yeah that's just a none issue.

[bronze kernel]

A lot of the stuff you get from salvages are irrelevant or can be easily reobtained or stored elsewhere

#CancelUIM

[flat sierra]

UIMs can store stuff in their POH

Ban the POH

[tacit wharf]

its the whole wording of the question, its not that they are giving them more space but just straight giving them ALL of it

[bronze kernel]

I can read. But my point still stands

The entire skill and boat mechanics was probably designed around the cargo hold

[tacit wharf]

they need repair kits sure, but the whole cargo, just seems weird and just so UIM can 30 min afk salvage

[grim gull]

The question is how does this affect your gameplay 🤔

[tacit wharf]

yr right it doesnt, but it does affect how i voted it into the game and understood the game mode to be

[grim gull]

Ah mb you're right. The game mode introduced 9 years ago should stay exactly the way that it was mentioned in its introduction with no changes that adapt to the game's update at all

[graceful jungle]

No one made you be a UIM that’s on you. We chillin over here

[grim gull]

Luckily for me I'm not an UIM either

[graceful jungle]

Aight so why are you going this hard for them

Just fall back and chill

[grim gull]

Shit you right I was going way too hard

[graceful jungle]

Right on bro let them worry about it we eating good this year

[chrome lantern]

All I can say is that if I did play a UIM I would make the restrictions more restrictive than current UIM

Generally speaking

But I can do that on myself

So I generally don't super care what the baseline is

But I do think it's a bit excessive

In terms of what stuff they can store rn

[narrow folio]

What confuses me is why oath is storable while torva isnt

[tacit wharf]

why is any of the near BIS gear storable is my question

[narrow folio]

Makes sense how magic wardrobe stores robes while armour stores, well, armour, but there are weird exceptions on what fits and doesn't. UIM is about no banking not no storage hence UIM can use but needs the full set to withdraw.

[tacit wharf]

whats the difference between that and banking

its just ends up by a pseudo bank

[narrow folio]

For specific items only

[tacit wharf]

on a mode thats suppose to be using what u have on you

[narrow folio]

The mode is about no Bank of Gielinor

[tacit wharf]

which is using what u have on you, making the tough choice of what to keep and what to drop

[narrow folio]

Poh is still limited and not a real bank

[tacit wharf]

we both know it, basically is at this point

[narrow folio]

Might as well remove looting bag, deathpiles, death banks

Stashes

[meager flame]

I’m pretty sure uim is just a game mode they had no plan for and they just keep the bit going

[narrow folio]

The fun is finding ways to operate without a bank, not absolutely no storage beyond inventory

[meager flame]

Because they can’t just delete them now or massively change it

[tacit wharf]

looting bag still atleast offers, not only the risk of getting pked while doing it, but also getting the looting bag back and restoring it

[meager flame]

So they just make up some new storage to make sure it keeps working as time goes on

When it looks like it won’t work

[minor whale]

You can do it in Ferox

[tacit wharf]

oh, of course u can...

[narrow folio]

Poh limitation is again, full sets, and specific items

[tacit wharf]

hard to say specific items, when they add basically all BIS armours

[minor whale]

That you need to get the full set of to store

[meager flame]

I mean it’s kind of obvious how it works though

They have to create those spots so that in 3 years it won’t be impossible to have gear on a uim

The more horizontal progression they make the more storage they have to have lol

It’s silly but the game mode would break down if jagex wasn’t doing this

[chrome lantern]

Would it? You would just compromise a little

[meager flame]

Maybe the first time

[minor whale]

They already compromise a lot on what gear they use

[meager flame]

But when you got to the point of not being able to store the last 20 upgrades you’d be cooked

[chrome lantern]

UIM shouldn't expect to be able to use max

Unless they give up a lot of space

and you shouldn't be able to freely choose which max set you use

Without giving up space

[meager flame]

Ya then it would just be cursed and work way less efficiently than it always has and they’d be trapped in the past

Jagex probably has an ideal space management size for them and makes sure to keep the number around it

[olive tinsel]

question about the poll

if this is the channel for it ofc

[tacit wharf]

we may have an answer

[olive tinsel]

why is the "do you want us to add a sea expansion" even a question on the poll

like they leave half the ocean unfinished and decide to leave it up to a poll whether or not the rest of the ocean actually gets done? i thought that was a given lmao

like why have the oceans there if they're never gonna be done and we're stuck with the same at launch expansion areas forever

to me that feels like one of those things that shouldn't be polled but just, ya know

finished

[meager flame]

Yeah that is insane from them

[tacit wharf]

the way i saw it was more of do u want us to focus on this during this year, or push it off till a later date

[ember token]

i mean its not a "vote no and the oceans will be permanently unfinished" kind of thing

[restive siren]

i mean in the end its about priorities

if a ton of people dont want an expansion right now theyd do something else first

[meager flame]

Idk if that’s even realistically a priority thing at this point

We voted for the skill now they have to finish it

Would be strange to leave it as is

[olive tinsel]

i'm already terribly bored with the ocean that exists and ngl the sailing skill launched unfinished, in part because the oceans aren't complete so the progression from 1-99 all being in the exact same small area feels wack and not at all correct

if anything the full ocean being released with better skill progression should be a priority for osrs first ever new skill

[olive tinsel]

this ^^^^

[tacit wharf]

really wish it was more of a straightforward, Hey do you guys want us to push this this year, or hold off till next, kind of question

[restive siren]

small area?

lol

[meager flame]

The problem with asking that question is basically

If it’s not so good right now and people said no because of that

It will just stay bad

[olive tinsel]

it certainly feels it, mostly because the best methods for xp are all in the corridor from lunar isle down to deepfin, which is kinda bleh

[meager flame]

They kind of have a responsibility to make it worth being in the game because they added it to begin with

[olive tinsel]

the entire ocean being complete with full, balanced skill progression should be top priority imo

[meager flame]

So they should at least finish the oceans etc

Before moving on

[tacit wharf]

in the same sense, why i voted no to the new BT question, just not enough info

[restive siren]

its out of the question they will open up all the oceans its just a question of timeline

[wet smelt]

Is there any speculation on mega rares?

[restive siren]

if people rather them spend more time on trawling or whatever they could do that instead first

[olive tinsel]

ngl i disliked barracuda trials from the start, i didn't sign up for Agility 2 Electric Boogaloo, BTs in general just feel like that

[tacit wharf]

is it going to be a harder, higher level course, does that mean the xp/hr for it going to be more than GG, or less, ect

[wet smelt]

I’m hoping for a fang accuracy buff but on an armor slot

Not exactly but kinda

[meager flame]

I mean I feel like it can’t really be more exp

It might be for loot instead

[olive tinsel]

hot take agility is a bad skill and we didn't need another skill whose main method of training with agility but on a boat

[tacit wharf]

i just wanted more info for it

[meager flame]

I do agree that they keep leaning towards trials way too much

[restive siren]

hot take barracuda trials have no resemblence to agility and people who dislike it (which is fine) just say that to shit on it

[meager flame]

Like there are other things to do on an ocean besides go to the nearest agility course

[tacit wharf]

would of been a good place to put a fill in space if no, so they knew why

[olive tinsel]

sepulchre 2

[restive siren]

it doesnt play or feel much like sep at all

[ember token]

the bigger concern to me is the lack of plans

new quest? "we dont know, might have pirates in it though"
new trial, how does it fit into the game? "idk we havent designed it at all yet and we dont know where itll be"
new sea expansion, what ocean? "idk what you do you guys want"
summer sweepup, whats gonna be the focus? "idk whatever you guys want, we'll figure it out later"

[meager flame]

And if you think it has no resemblance to agility idk how to even respond lol

[dusk shore]

Bro hasnt done sepulcher at all Im guessin

[tiny otter]

sepulchre was balanced rather well xp wise

trials shits it out

[ionic tartan]

Yeah, BT feels a lot more like just driving laps once you get the hang of it (especially with rosewood hull).

Personally, I think BT has a nice, arguably more brain-off rhythm than scepulchre clicks.

[olive tinsel]

ngl the new quest certainly feels like the pirate finale, given they added rock island prison from rs2 to the game which was used in the next pirate quest back in the day

though i agree they feel rather unfocused with the skill and need to get it together

[ember token]

very much not the pirate finale

[restive siren]

ill accept it once people start calling fishing "water mining" and woodcutting "tree mining" and herblore "herb crafting" and fletching "arrow crafting". its a 20 yo point and click, turns out you are quite limited at what activities you can design. as far as that goes its miraculous they did something as unique as BT

[ember token]

not even close to a finale for that atm

[meager flame]

They’re not unique though

Do laps avoid obstacle get exp reward at end is something they already did

[olive tinsel]

maybe not a finale but the addition of rock island prison to the game seems to imply they want to continue the pirate story in some way with the sailing skill which would make sense

[ember token]

the new quest will either be Rocking Out or it's gonna be [[Burial at Sea]] which is the follow-up to the Pandemonium quest

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Burial_at_Sea

[restive siren]

with that logic there are no unique bosses because all of them involve killing an npc

its reductive

it plays and feels different

[meager flame]

It only feels different because moving your boat is different

Otherwise it’s quite literally the agility gameplay loop lol

There’s no avoiding it

[dawn jackal]

rc is agi too

agree with captain

there's only so many gameplay loops available

[meager flame]

I don’t think a lot of people would agree with that

[olive tinsel]

rc is actually enjoyable and that's the main difference

:)

[meager flame]

That’s really one of those imagination things where it just depends on if they’re willing to do something new or not

[quiet plank]

i thought they said there'd be a small scale ocean boss this year

[vivid ruin]

Rc enjoyable???

[quiet plank]

did that get scrapped since they need to change combat so much?

[vivid ruin]

https://tenor.com/view/kek-cat-kek-cat-laugh-laughing-gif-25202548

[olive tinsel]

definitely not saying this because i'm biased towards gotr and zmi and wrath/nature crafting with diary cape and i got pet at zmi before 99

[meager flame]

Probably on hold

Hard to make a boss when you don’t know how the game will work

I have 0 confidence after reading their sailing blog though

[tiny otter]

implemented one of the nicer rc additions with gotr...but also added gotr

[meager flame]

Dudes were like fence sitting on if sailing combat is a combat skill or not

[quiet plank]

at least we're getting ship vs ship combat

[meager flame]

It’s not a combat skill but what if we gave it all of the combat skill perks like its own armor set

They’re clearly lost atm

[quiet plank]

sailing is fun but it has no integration with the rest of the game and i dont think the devs know how to integrate it

like the methods for xp are great

[meager flame]

It also made no sense

[quiet plank]

but it just isn't adding to the rest of the game

[meager flame]

They said not having Ava’s would improve economy of cannonballs because they’re split from dwarf cannonballs

[restive siren]

i have heard that so often but people never give an example what would consitute integration

[meager flame]

Which basically got a ? From me when I was reading it lol

[quiet plank]

resources that come from sailing and benefit me in the rest of the game

[graceful jungle]

It just came out?

Like what

[tiny otter]

looping back around to the economy being the reason for change..is still a choice

[dawn jackal]

the new chin island is useful, the nechs is good for iron men

[meager flame]

They also think somehow that the cannons being slower and more boring improves things other than cannonballs per hour was interesting

[dawn jackal]

there's some uses

[tacit wharf]

didnt need to be integrated at the release like this, better for this down the road

[meager flame]

We do need more cannonballs but I also want the game to be fun

[dawn jackal]

i just don't see how sailing acts as anything but a lock for future content though

[graceful jungle]

Exactly

[dawn jackal]

which is fine ultimately

[meager flame]

They also lol

[tiny otter]

dont say that, the sailing locked players need to get into raids somehow

[quiet plank]

yes but it doesnt seem like they have plans to integrate it better this year

unless the quests unlock some nice stuff which is possible

[graceful jungle]

You’re in the board room meetings?

[meager flame]

Talked about your gear buffing the cannon but the turned around and talked about how cannons shouldn’t be better than a shadow

[olive tinsel]

the issue is that sailing conceptually CAN'T tie into the rest of the game because the game world already existed for well over 20 years without it in mind and so now if it were to be integrated properly the entire games map and world would need to be redone to properly accommodate

it's why i will be forever seething that shamanism didn't get in instead because that was the better choice but reddit wanted their funny 2008 meme skill instead

[restive siren]

so new fishes or potions would be an example of that but it should be more ye?

[meager flame]

So that seemed like a whole wasted comment section since we’re apparently not intended to fire the cannons ourselves to begin with

And should use our regular weapons

[quiet plank]

yeah the fish are great

[quiet plank]

conceptually sailing is great. it just needs more updates

[graceful jungle]

Nah I’ll take sailing instead of a sweaty combat skill

[restive siren]

eh seems like it can do so just fine if they add uses to all the new trees and ores, get rewards from sailing bosses etc. the problem is that you have a very loud crowd that would equally complain when something becomes "locked behind sailing"

[graceful jungle]

I’d take taming over shamanism

[meager flame]

I also don’t particularly understand why given that we’re punished by having crew use the cannons

Since that seems to now be the only intended use of cannons

Seems like the cannons should just scale with the captains levels and maybe gear if they also offer magic cannons

And the crew is just the method by which they’re fired

[quiet plank]

the new wood and new ores should definitely have some extra uses

[vivid ruin]

Shamanism = necromancy = arceus

Add more thralls and stop bringing up shamanism

[quiet plank]

if theres ever a mining and smithing overhaul then nickel/cupronickel and lead could be made more useful

[graceful jungle]

Fr. Like why make combat even more sweaty

[quiet plank]

add a flintlock pistol that needs lead bullets

thatd be dope

idk if flintlock guns fit rs

[olive tinsel]

the skill was more about enchanting items for buffs and the idea of a spirit world which is nothing like arceus so like

funni strawman

[vivid ruin]

Meh

[meager flame]

It’s like sailing

[tough nacelle]

Nah I think it was more to do with power creep. Shamanism was focused primarily on buffing existing items removing reward space which is already hard to implement. The concept was great, the reward was something people just didn’t vibe with.

[meager flame]

It was going to use existing gameplay loops mostly and just be the gatekeeper to do new things in new places

[tough nacelle]

Had less to do with haha funny and more to do with wanting to skill not to buff everything else

[meager flame]

Like the point of sailing is to sail somewhere

[thick beacon]

i feel like they played safe but the potential is there. if ur iron trawling is nice armabrews/fragments u only get from sailing content. ironwood trees are behind unlocking island

[graceful jungle]

Sailing makes more sense lore wise anyway we literally have ports all over the world

[meager flame]

Granted they didn’t add somewhere yet but lol

[thick beacon]

they coulda had black chins on chin island

[meager flame]

That’s the real purpose at the end of the day

[tiny otter]

but then what would the spade hunters do?

[meager flame]

To let you unlock new places to go and play the game as usual

[dawn jackal]

i don't think the game is quite ready for black chin locations outside of the wildy

[thick beacon]

whats a spade hunter?

[meager flame]

Most of the people playing are ready for the wilderness to not exist ngl

God help those guys if it goes on a poll

[tiny otter]

the downfall of polling

[narrow folio]

Buffing existing items IS the reward of integrating in the game

[vivid ruin]

Thatd kill a part of rs soul

[graceful jungle]

Jagex is scared to poll real points of contention

[narrow folio]

It takes away reward space just like any other upgrade does.

[grim gull]

Remember when Ironman mode barely passed in the poll lmfao

Was less than like 500 votes

[graceful jungle]

If they put all the real issues in one poll it would be the biggest voter turn out of all time

[tiny otter]

Jagex is terrified to poll things opposite the already agreed upon design goal

[narrow folio]

Shamanism would have actually been useful more widely than sailing

[meager flame]

Probably not tbh

At least not yet

Their strategy seems to be add in everything that doesn’t actually change anything

[narrow folio]

Like what is the point of new content if not powercreep? Sailing had new potions and new food.

[thick beacon]

i mostly look at skills from a iron perspective idt theres any skills that matter on a main anyway

[meager flame]

But allude to content you might care about for later

[narrow folio]

If it's not useful in some way (even horizontal powercreep), then it's dead

[graceful jungle]

Not everything has to be about damage going up? Like what

[thick beacon]

but like from that perspective wt didint exist etc most kills were super bare bones on release

[vivid ruin]

https://tenor.com/view/screenshot-picture-nworwitcamera-gif-20466636

[meager flame]

Yeah like sailing

[narrow folio]

Powercreep is more than just damage

[tough nacelle]

I think there’s other ways to integrate than strictly buffs.

[meager flame]

We get fish from sailing

3 years for fish

[tough nacelle]

And I’m going to be honest

[meager flame]

Kinda crazy lmao

[narrow folio]

We get buffs as a reward from engaging in the new content

[tough nacelle]

Sailing takes a lot of things from other parts of the game, it just doesn’t give back to other parts of the game yet

But as time goes on that can become more common

[meager flame]

They’ll eventually add more I’m sure but

[tough nacelle]

I think they played it safe to start

[meager flame]

Right now it’s funny

[narrow folio]

Blood moon rises has a ton of powercreep for range

[meager flame]

I can’t believe they chose to just start with actually nothing that matters for sailing

[narrow folio]

Should it just not come out? It's basically just "more damage"

[tacit wharf]

dont forget we also got engine work done, that otherwise wouldnt of been

[restive siren]

as i said, the crowd not wanting any rewarding content to be "locked behind sailing" is quite large too

so they played it safe

[meager flame]

Like come on there should have been one thing at least to make you really want to level up

[vivid ruin]

I cant wait until tbow is irrelevant

[graceful jungle]

You start with a foundation then build after. Rome wasn’t built in a day

[tender harness]

real
give us an avernic mega that combines tbow shadow and scythe into one th at does all 3 styles

[narrow folio]

Looks like this year is the tbow year

[meager flame]

This sounds good but jagex almost never made this mistake with any other skill that was added

They almost always included at least one thing to go for on day 1

This is really just osrs devs being scared

[thick beacon]

what did firemaking have day 1

[meager flame]

Ya that’s where the almost always came from

They made some mistakes in the past but stopped

[tough nacelle]

Unironically I think the arrows maybe shouldn’t but the key difference is shamanism was quest and boss rewards the skill, vs something like thieving which is just an alternate means to obtain items that fits into the theme of the game

[quiet plank]

they added too little that rewards main game, but added way too much rewarding sailing itself. like who decided to make dragon stuff tier 90? what will they do if they want to add more ship upgrades

[vivid ruin]

I feel like every other new skill has something to do with combat. I dont even know what divination really is

https://tenor.com/view/bubbles-finding-nemo-excited-fish-tank-treasure-chest-gif-5296886

[tender harness]

I dont think rs3 knows what it is

[vivid ruin]

Thats all I think when i see it

[tender harness]

other than the soul of guthix or some shit

[meager flame]

Probably pack it up and admit they somehow cosplayed as smithing in 2025 and adjust it

[quiet plank]

yeah true they literally made the same mistake as smithing

[narrow folio]

The skill could also involve quests and bosses for those rewards. Difficulty and requirements could always be tuned no?

[graceful jungle]

99 smithing to make a rune plate body is still in the game btw but they won’t poll a smithing overhaul 😂

[quiet plank]

but because dragon items are so expensive what will they do?

[narrow folio]

Because mains and irons alike just do gold or GF to 99 and stop caring

[obsidian venture]

Doesn't mean it shouldn't be updated

[quiet plank]

just tell everyone to suck it up when they nerf dragon and its price crashes

[narrow folio]

Be real, how many mains would actually want to craft their own gear

[graceful jungle]

Cus there’s nothing to make at 99

[narrow folio]

Why would they?

[thick beacon]

I can understand perspective though even though it was voted in if sailing massively changed metas and whatnot think ppl would be idk. like i think they had to get ppl adjusted to sailing existing first before making it op or good

[tough nacelle]

Definitely possible, but I was mostly addressing your comment saying the primary reason sailing made it into the game was people thought it would be funny, vs people were interested in exploring the seas and found it less risky than shamanism

[narrow folio]

Usually it's a gp loss and unless ur going for post max xp

[tender harness]

smithing amongst literally the majority of old skills should absolutely be updated
smithing in particular is notoriously outdated and honestly confusing

[meager flame]

Tbf I’ve always liked the idea of like doing interesting things to get items to make better gear

Long before irons existed

[obsidian venture]

If you just compare all skills to each other, sailing fits in that regard + has a varying amount of activities for just an on-release.

If we went by what they did, it would have been port tasks for a few months in salvaging and so on

[meager flame]

I think mains could like that

[quiet plank]

smithing update would be so awesome

[narrow folio]

In the current meta, making your own gear wouldn't work

[tough nacelle]

Sailing nailed the most important part - is it fun? The answer is yes

[obsidian venture]

Skills now have been getting some varying angles but over two decades late. Stuff should be re-worked

[narrow folio]

I think theres other skills that need it more badly than smithing

[thick beacon]

moment they start adding op crafting islands and bosses locked behind higher sailing lvls itll feel useful imo.

[vivid ruin]

I think slayer is out dated af

[narrow folio]

Such as crafting especially for irons, firemaking

[meager flame]

It’s kinda hard to need it more than smithing

[quiet plank]

agility

agility is so bad

[meager flame]

It’s on the pantheon of literally useless skills to the modern game

[narrow folio]

Agility rework helped the reward but not the actual getting there

Which is arguably more important

[graceful jungle]

Smithing is def a top 3 skill that needs reworking. It’s like a bad cavity you been ignoring

Decaying like a mf

[quiet plank]

agilitys only reward is shortcuts and you run longer

[thick beacon]

my hot take on this is smithing is decently useful for ironmen. being able to process ores and get gp is really strong along with runedarts.

[tender harness]

leveling agility isnt even that bad I dont get why people think that
roofs were chill
seppy needs a buff but here nor there

[quiet plank]

it needs so much more

[hard axle]

there's a 20 minute 10k/hr afk method

[meager flame]

Agility running longer is good as shit at least though

[hard axle]

which is 10% ehb

[meager flame]

It’s not like the skills that actually do nothing

[tender harness]

can I steal your pet rng

[hard axle]

[tough nacelle]

But it’s inconsistent and can break randomly 😭

[tender harness]

too late

imma steal it

[hard axle]

need to be alone

[narrow folio]

Most mains just buy everything off the GE and spend money to lvl it fastee

[tender harness]

GG pet spoon surely

[narrow folio]

Dont think many would care about making their own gear

[chrome lantern]

Very true

[narrow folio]

Yes I agree though making ammo for irons is very nice

[graceful jungle]

It’s on Jagex to provide the incentives

We can point out issues but they need to make it fun to play

[tender harness]

my biggest concern is just how vague the sailing road map is they put combat as a priority which while fine
no access to other oceans till realistically 2027 - 2028
quests delayed
we know a trial exists just not even built out
I want sailing to grow and succeed but like the road map doesnt exhude confidence

[thick beacon]

this alone basically removes skilling as an aspect of a main account nearly imo

[tough nacelle]

Mod Elena et al have shown they can cook while providing loose concepts ( earlier sailing blogs) so I’m not so worried about the road map

[graceful jungle]

It’s funny how people voted the GE back then complain about mains GE standing skills and buying bonds like people can’t have it both ways. Not saying you I’m just saying in general

[tough nacelle]

Lots of really cool horizontal progression that’s very fitting

[icy relic]

A lot of skilling is decent enough to be worth doing while progressing your account + isn't buyable or too expensive to be worth buying at early levels

[graceful jungle]

People voted the GE back and then look down on mains ???

[icy relic]

There is just this weird mentality that mains should never do anything they can't buy

[dawn jackal]

the ge helps facilitate skilling

[icy relic]

It did not used to be like that

[dawn jackal]

no one would do drift net if you had to farm your own jute

[hard axle]

it's braindead as fuck because the super vocal irons are the same people on ironscape crying about it's too hard to source your own goods.

[vivid ruin]

I think the GE is horrible and should be deleted

[hard axle]

reminder that throne literally converts gp into select resources

reminder that scar essence converts gp into select resources

reminder that shopscape converts gp into select resources

[vivid ruin]

It unironicly encourages solo play

[dawn jackal]

the game without GE just turns into third parties mimicking the ge

[tough nacelle]

Iron has literally never been easier

[vivid ruin]

Thats ok

[hard axle]

it does and jagex has less work dealing with trade scammers

[tiny otter]

wait til you find out the pre ge playerbase barely exists now, especially not on the same accounts

[hard axle]

u have to realize that jagex is very much self-interested

[dawn jackal]

how is going on zybez to find your ranarr weed any better than going to the GE

[narrow folio]

Efficiencyscape

[dawn jackal]

it's the same gameplay

[hard axle]

they add patches often to make LESS work for themselves

[vivid ruin]

Trade scams wouldnt happen as much if people actually looked at what they're trading like we used to be forced to do

[hard axle]

dude...

[vivid ruin]

Wut

[hard axle]

there's bugs with trade windows every now and then

it's rarer now because less people trade

[vivid ruin]

Meh

[tough nacelle]

Trade scams were happening constantly for years lol

[tiny otter]

fool, zybez was for the rare items not the commons

[hard axle]

the blinking red bar is something else too

[thick beacon]

i dont have a problem with that. im just saying all skills are basically useless on a main. even pre ge ud prob do the same dont think it changes much just makes it more inconvenient to buy things. pvm for money buy ur resources. its like that on iron to u can buy a suprising amount but not nearly as much and so u still have to skill atleast a bit

[hard axle]

runehq type shit

[graceful jungle]

Yeah nobody was going there for law runes lmao

[tiny otter]

you knew your spots

[hard axle]

official forums type shit

[tiny otter]

and if you didnt, you were close

[dawn jackal]

lord talk about missing the first through the trees

[graceful jungle]

I miss the pre ge trade world I remember which parts around the bank were for which items

[vivid ruin]

People are being trade scammed anyways and even falling for stupid scams that are overtly obvious

[dawn jackal]

third party platforms mimicking the ge is not a better experience for mostly everyone

[hard axle]

but yeah, GE is a net good

[tiny otter]

..you didnt need them tho

think of them as a phone book

you know your friends number without it

[dawn jackal]

the GE also allows the devs to assist in the market

[tender peak]

ban trading

iron for all

[hard axle]

even smaller mmos had automated auction house/trade shops

[graceful jungle]

I learned how to type as a kid spamming offers pre ge

[tender peak]

[tiny otter]

I mean..it's a net negative to irons

[tough nacelle]

A lot of people keep remembering the good old days of RuneScape and neglect that the fun part wasn’t necessarily the game but really the lack of responsibilities at 9 years old

[dawn jackal]

skilling being "useless" is not a product of the GE but instead of the juiced pvm drop tables and bots

[tiny otter]

denying our lived experiences are we?

[tender peak]

bold of you to assume I have real responsibilities now

I work an 8 hour shift that takes me 3 hours

[thick beacon]

i just dont think its fun. if u took one of ur irl friend made them kill goblins for 4hours they would probaly quit or not play again

[tender peak]

I get 5 hours of "on call" where nobody ever calls

[tiny otter]

takes me longer to get ready compared to all the work all day

[hard axle]

dude, even back then it was ass if u had limited time on the internet

[graceful jungle]

Rs2 was basically our version of Roblox you can play it anywhere and we socialized it wasn’t about focusing on goals all day

Good times

[hard axle]

100000%

Jagex could easily make it so all gear needs to be crafted from a rare boss drop in order to be used or used efficiently - torva or masori as an example

[tough nacelle]

You mean I didn’t actually mine my 70k mith ore?!

[hard axle]

But JAgex chose NOT to until 2023

2022

2021

[frail bough]

"ban the bots"
"WHY is no1 selling ANYTHING"

[hard axle]

[hard axle]

I'd geniunely rather all skilling prices quadruple and quintuple and sextuple

[thick beacon]

u can just choose to buy full version and bypass reqs still

[tough nacelle]

“Cost to use X is too high”

[graceful jungle]

Bro I was fishings inv of lobster from Karamja and running all the way back to fally bank and back I thought I had it figured out

[hard axle]

because bitches cry about reqs being too high

same reason why our latest gm quest had skilling requirements in the 60s

[tough nacelle]

I fished my own before fighting lesser demons

[hard axle]

https://i.imgur.com/53XRWCU.png

this is pathetic for endgame quest requirements just fyi

[dawn jackal]

i think it's largely impossible to know how the game would look without bots but it's kinda fun to think about

[hard axle]

sote was all 70s

it should only be going up or equal, not less

[tiny otter]

your mainscapers would swipe more

[tough nacelle]

I literally had to double take that wgs was GM

[hard axle]

which is a net good as well

more bonds

a ton of irons rely on bonds

[tiny otter]

...

ima just let that hang

[dawn jackal]

i think people who are willing to buy bonds are already doing so

but maybe not

[graceful jungle]

If Jagex had a magic button that would delete all bots forever I know they wouldn’t push it. They’d discuss it and look at the money and decide it’s a fair trade off to keep them

[hard axle]

1 bond already gets you so much

[dawn jackal]

i think the original reasoning for juicing the pvm drop tables wasn't bad, no one wants to pick flax or mine pure ess or some of these infinity resources stuff. it just doesn't extend to shit like birds nests or adamantite ore

[hard axle]

it's also because they wanted to kill bots

but didn't realize it just scattered the roaches

[dawn jackal]

i think that's a very significant factor of why skilling feels useless

[hard axle]

indeed

[tiny otter]

buffing skilling

hah

[tough nacelle]

Skilling isn’t weak

[hard axle]

irons benefits the most of juiced loot tables because of the time save

[tough nacelle]

Loot tables are just nuts

[dawn jackal]

the max cape was also a tremendous mistake

[graceful jungle]

People would pick flax if you got like 5 or 6 at a time instead of 1

[tiny otter]

then skilling is weak

[dawn jackal]

people shouldn't feel any obligation to go for 99s

[tough nacelle]

After sote you really don’t need to skill beyond herb again

For iron purposes

[hard axle]

i haven't actively looted common drops in ages

because its just not worth the time

[tough nacelle]

99% of irons rock bowfa

[tiny otter]

yeah...no

[dawn jackal]

but the max capes existence implies you ought to max

[tiny otter]

no, the skills themslves do

[graceful jungle]

Agility is one of the universally beneficial skills it’s never a waste to have high agility you’re always on the move it’s just boring to level

[tiny otter]

the max cape is just a bowtie

[dawn jackal]

so you get pvm andy's asking for idiot shit updates all the time

[hard axle]

dude, everytime a drop table isn't packed

people whine

[tough nacelle]

People are complaining about TOA common loot on Reddit atm

[tiny otter]

...design game around droptables for SKILLING

people get conditioned to drop tables

surprised when players dislike bad tables

holy, it almost writes itself

[hard axle]

that's why specific jmods really regret zulrah

it started this shit

[tiny otter]

it's especially egregious for some skilling things, p ess? not so much

[narrow folio]

Is the common loot too bad?

[tiny otter]

but coal, logs

realistically herbs shouldve never dropped from any boss

[hard axle]

mole is better for yew logs than chopping btw

[tiny otter]

precisely

[hard axle]

because u also get other stuff

[tough nacelle]

IMO it’s fine but a lot of people are unhappy it’s a loss without purples

[tiny otter]

these issues with tables

[hard axle]

I think a healthy amount of gp

[tiny otter]

are enhanced again for wildy bosses

[hard axle]

per hour

[graceful jungle]

Give the serpentine helm venom again 🥳

[dawn jackal]

it all leads to an imbalance in skilling options. if skilling had meaningful rewards it would mean something to have lower xp higher gp options

[hard axle]

for base loot

[tiny otter]

which are beyond dumb its nuts

[hard axle]

is 100-300k/hr

[tough nacelle]

I think so too,

[narrow folio]

They could revert some of the nerfs to seeds and such imo

[hard axle]

at the higher level - similar to how gwd functions at 400k/hr base loot

[narrow folio]

Some of the drops are so troll

[tough nacelle]

The drops are also useful on irons if you get the blood things

Sapphires are great for rings

[dawn jackal]

instead now people solely care about xp rates and then people feel friction the slowest skills

[narrow folio]

Sapphires are also troll for irons

Every iron has an abundance

[tough nacelle]

Eh after a certain point

Yeah

[narrow folio]

Its not even crafting xp from uncuts

[graceful jungle]

How many people don’t do master clues because all they ever got were wines and uncut sapphires

[hard axle]

it's only "troll" because they overflooded it

[narrow folio]

U get like a couple drops and the rest are p much useless

[hard axle]

u can literally say the same thing about pessence

[narrow folio]

Not to mention irons grind cox anyway which shits out gems

At least those are uncut

Blood ess is pretty goated tho

[tough nacelle]

The point is moreso things would have been amazing drops for irons until they added too many of those items

[hard axle]

[tough nacelle]

To bring up baseline gp/h

Or make grinds easier for irons

[hard axle]

It's always this case where if it's too uncommon, people complain.

And then when it's too common, people complain cuz its flooded.

Muspah Essence is top example of this

[graceful jungle]

Isolate all irons to iron-only worlds then they can high five each other for being iron btw

[narrow folio]

Last time they tried a barebones drop table like NM it got universally hated on

[tough nacelle]

Nah that was a different problem

[hard axle]

If Menaphite Lilies end up being a requirement for overloads... the amount of people complaining will be insane

[hard axle]

Different reason and you know why

[dawn jackal]

i think a lot of the issue with pnm is the fight also sucked

[tough nacelle]

Uniques weren’t powerful and they were incredibly rare AND the loot didn’t even break even

[narrow folio]

Common loots utter garbage

[tough nacelle]

Plus incredibly weak uniques

[narrow folio]

Thats why it didnt break even

[hard axle]

no u dummy

[tough nacelle]

And a giant run to get there until you get the tablet

[hard axle]

the uniques were piss rare compared to gwd, the boss scaled terribly, the base loot was WORST than gwd, the trips were shorter

[tough nacelle]

Which used to be even rarer

[hard axle]

no tablet on release

[tough nacelle]

Shockingly no one wants to grind 10x as long for armour that at the time was weaker than bandos

[hard axle]

I believe it was like 10 hours to see a unique in a team and even back in 07, the hours to see a bandos unique was like 4-5 hours.

[tough nacelle]

And gwd kept getting easier to enter with CAs keys, and new methods

Meanwhile nightmare got neglected until recently

And still the uniques aren’t powerful

[hard axle]

dont get me started on what we fucking lost

sec

https://i.imgur.com/lipa5yd.png

this was last week

[tough nacelle]

Ikr

It wasn’t even overpowered

Just popular

[hard axle]

it wasn't - it was only for pet/jar

there were so many lazy irons in the crowd for nex-style masses

[tough nacelle]

And still slower iirc

[tender harness]

a bug made dead content good
reddit whined
and its dead again

[tough nacelle]

I don’t think Reddit whined

[hard axle]

they did

[tender harness]

they did

[tough nacelle]

It was just silently patched no?

[tender harness]

nope

[hard axle]

it was one snitch that got the attention of mod yume

[tender harness]

it was reddit whining about bug abuse

[tough nacelle]

🙁

[hard axle]

as it turns out, people like camping one style

even if its slower

[dawn jackal]

you'd love the devs to acknowledge that they were fixing a bug but also leave some way to replicate that experience

[hard axle]

case in point, nhally at GG

[tender harness]

nhally tech is

[tough nacelle]

Well considering the rewards are about as powerful as zulrah (maybe weaker)

I’m not shocked

[narrow folio]

Inquisitor is actually very strong

[tough nacelle]

Actually what am I saying, definitely weaker

[tender harness]

zulrah level uniques with worse rates

[narrow folio]

Its just crush content thats lacking

[tough nacelle]

I’m pretty sure torva is almost the same dps in most places

And much tankier

[dawn jackal]

comparing anything to blowpipe is a little unfair

[narrow folio]

Eldritch has insane sustain potential, harm could be something somewhere in the future

[tender harness]

inq has stats of like paper defenses

[dawn jackal]

first real unique loot in osrs and they made a goof

[hard axle]

did u know that slash araxxor is only about 4% weaker and saves you switches to dinhs the melee araxyte

[narrow folio]

But if u look at oath, inq matches stats or goes beyond

[hard axle]

[narrow folio]

Its only the tank and small negatives to other styles

[hard axle]

u sure?

[tough nacelle]

Inq is definitely much worse

[hard axle]

oath is 38 acc and 12 str

inq is 32 acc and 10 str

[narrow folio]

Because the tank is that big of a deal?

[hard axle]

why u gaslighting

[narrow folio]

Or the content doesnt support ut

[tough nacelle]

The tank actually is a big deal

[narrow folio]

Not really

[tough nacelle]

For olm,

Vardorvis

[hard axle]

no seriously, why gaslighting

[tough nacelle]

Lots of content makes you take unavoidable damage

[hard axle]

mfer

[vivid ruin]

Doesnt inquis also have a set bonus

Oath doesnt

[narrow folio]

Yes the percentage boosts

[tender harness]

set bonus means fuck all on inq

[hard axle]

yes, but not stats wise

unless ur mace bashing

it's not better

and it's comparable, not better iirc

[narrow folio]

And people were running solo cms with inq fine before oath

[hard axle]

u know they were masori flicking hits right

[narrow folio]

Tank matters in some places but those niche situations isnt what makes inq less popular

Get a straight year of crush after crush content and see what happens

[tender harness]

how does he get away with this gas lighting genuinely

[tough nacelle]

Inquis wasn’t even that strong at arraxor

[hard axle]

it wasn't

that's why folks were literally in torva slashing it

with scythe

[narrow folio]

U can dps calc it. But ideally u wear a mix inthink?

[hard axle]

it was literally full torva

I've dps calc'd it

[tough nacelle]

Also

That’s just one set

[hard axle]

inq is better by 4%

[tough nacelle]

The nightmare staff also sucks

[hard axle]

eh

I think that one is fine for where it comes from

we have plenty of middle grounds

[tough nacelle]

But you need staff and an orb

[narrow folio]

Eldritch has good uses and harm kinda sucks but whatever and volly is for pvp so its bad in pvm

[tender harness]

lets make nightmare staff the new ayak

[tough nacelle]

On super rare items from difficult content

The reward vs difficulty + rarity

Is just a bad deal

[hard axle]

ayak + sang for healing machine please

[tender harness]

consume all 3 orbs

• ayak + sang
  for healing machine

[narrow folio]

NM staff devalued kodai which is another issue, on top of DHW autoing ancients at 10%

[vivid ruin]

New megarare drop that combines nightmare staff, sang and ayak + all orbs into giga staff thats better than shadow

[tough nacelle]

you think nightmare is strong enough vs where it comes from? I kinda feel the opposite outside harm

Harm orb is good

[vivid ruin]

Dont make us wait gagec

[tough nacelle]

The rest ehhhhhh

[narrow folio]

Imo harms a little overtuned but theres hardly content to use it in at the same time

Maybe because they know harms overtuned compared to any other standards option?

[hard axle]

well, prior to ancient sceptres, it was kodai or ancient staff

then they powercrept it by adding sceptres

so i guess ur right in that it's a little weak as it is now

[hard axle]

ah yes, dhw too

overall, I think kodai should be much more stronger on ancients

make it the ultimate ancients weapon

it's the goofy dragon head in the three headed dragon rn

[tough nacelle]

Fingers crossed Kodai gets a use in raids 4 🙂

And not just a you know what in my clog

[true talon]

elemental weakness mega rare so i can ignore it XD

[graceful jungle]

They shoulda made the duel arena into a prison where you do manual labor to get out nothing but gathering skills you need to get a 5000 stack to get out of this mf

[narrow folio]

Theyd have to rework kodai and give it another passive

[austere mulch]

It’s time

Let harm autocast ancients outside of PvP

Don’t tell mom

[narrow folio]

Im worried theyre more concerned about adding random heavy weaknesses to random targets rather than addressing high level items that have gotten powercrept

Torva kodai ralos for example

[frail bough]

megarare ralos attachment to make you attack like draven from leagues

[hard axle]

u mean... harm staff?

stop leaving old gear behind jagex...

[hard axle]

hear me out

same passive as confliction gauntlets

[gaunt kestrel]

gm from the grave is there a place to yap about r4

[vivid ruin]

See i made a suggestion about a megarare drop that makes items like ralos and nightmare staff more relevant and no one liked it lmao

[frail bough]

idk i think its a great way to make them relevant again or an excuse to revisit without having to totally come up with something new

i do like brand new stuff tho, especially from a raid

[tacit wharf]

still waiting for my all powerful elemental staff after combining the combination staves together

[vivid ruin]

Make elemental runes irrelevant lmao

[tacit wharf]

lock it behind a raid drop and 90 rc/mage

untradable

[vivid ruin]

90 def too

[narrow folio]

Avernic battlestaff

[tacit wharf]

was thinkg something like guthix's warstaff, even though guthix is a "peaceful" god

he still gotta whoop ass when he has to

[vivid ruin]

Avernic mystic battlestaff of elemental control

[narrow folio]

Fractured staff of avernicness

[vivid ruin]

;p

[meager flame]

their theme is honestly kind of weak on purpose for the next raid

they're just gonna give you items based on all of the factions involved

like how they did gwd

since its an archive and they've got all of these random gods and their artifacts being locked away

they can actually just put anything in there lol

i bet some of the rewards are prayers though

[ionic tartan]

God Alignment prayer overrides incoming with TFA?

[chrome lantern]

I mean Managing Miscellania FAR predates ironman as well

[restive siren]

doubt

[ember token]

new prayers i could definitely see but I would guess they'd stay away from calling them god alignments

[glass fog]

doesnyone know when we might see the new nexus portal teleports added?

[ember token]

should be in the next few weeks

[vivid ruin]

Still waiting on hally update

[glass fog]

i was also sad that a new quest that brings a new 50 att spec weapon to the game is unavailable to pures because its nature spirt locked

[tacit wharf]

[glass fog]

lol i think jagexc forgot about that wintersummit update lol

[tacit wharf]

at the end of the day, it blows my mind thinking that someone who choosing to not train a skill thinks they should be able to do end game quests

[glass fog]

do end game players normal stay 50 att?

[vivid ruin]

Voiders/zerkers win again

[true talon]

id argue that if you have the skills needed to do the quest, the reward exp shouldnt matter.

[round lintel]

Disgusting

hahaha

[true talon]

Streamer client

[round lintel]

for real

[narrow folio]

I feel attacked because that looks like my log

The second one

[vivid ruin]

You need streamer RNG

[glass fog]

#plinxyforjmod

[round lintel]

second one is mine

and in kinda on rate a a few more delves and im dry for an 8th item

[narrow folio]

Happens 🙁

[hard axle]

yup, and the fact that skilling requirements seem to be declining YOY

[hard axle]

we went from 70s in 2019 to b2b gm quests with mostly 60s

[chrome lantern]

tbf

[hard axle]

and the only 70s are super fast skills

[chrome lantern]

They did say that WGS was mostly labeled as GM because of legacy reasons

[hard axle]

should;ve upped the reqs nonetheless

[chrome lantern]

I don't disagree

[hard axle]

[vivid ruin]

90 def req for new raids i heard

;p

[tacit wharf]

im not to upset with the req's for wgs, as they knew more quests were going to happen in that questline still

[hard axle]

I feel like Blood Moon Rises is not sufficient to be the last quest in that line

Cuz of the whole Nylocas using Verzik like a corpse dummy

[chrome lantern]

I actually didn’t even see what the reqs are

[[Blood Moon Rises]]

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/The_Blood_Moon_Rises

[hard axle]

Wonder if they'll copy RS3's morytania story

[chrome lantern]

“Several 70+”

Very detailed

[hard axle]

good good

encouraging players to skill is a net good

otherwise they'll never skill past 50s

[chrome lantern]

And 110 combat recommended

[ember token]

nah the story's gonna be different for sure

there's the whole nylocas queen for one

[meager flame]

the only thing about this that im not sure that i agree with is when they have some "interesting" requirements for quests

[hard axle]

here's what im thinking

[meager flame]

like

[hard axle]

we end up in a truce with the vampires

find some blood substitute, or fix their blood addiction

and then we fight the nylos

[meager flame]

honestly there isn't a quest in the game that reasonably should require you to have a def level off the top of my head

[tacit wharf]

there should

[meager flame]

its different when the quest involves like idk

planting a tree

[tacit wharf]

it makes people actually play the game

[meager flame]

and you need a farming level to do it

that makes sense

[tacit wharf]

thats what all req's are there for

[meager flame]

i dont think that makes people play the game though

its actually the opposite

its giving people reasons to not be able to play lol

and honestly

[hard axle]

[meager flame]

its because all of those quests were made back in the day

when jagex didnt like pures

thats why the def stuff is there lmao

[hard axle]

half cup full vs half cup empty type shit

[tacit wharf]

[hard axle]

master clues are preventing folks from playing vs master clues encouraging you to skill

[meager flame]

it would be different if you actually had to like idk wear rune armor to solve a riddle or something

[hard axle]

I'm in the latter

[chrome lantern]

I mean if you’re using that logic then why have any skill reqs for any skill?

[meager flame]

at least then the def would actually make sense as a requirement

but a lot of those quests are just them fucking with pures in like 2005 lol

[chrome lantern]

The anti-dragon shield and mirror shields should have defense reqs then

Or what I really mean

Dragon slayer and Fremmy exiles quests are directly tied to defense

Fremennik isles yak armor and shield

There’s plenty of quests where defense reqs make sense

But even aside from those

[meager flame]

i dont even really think jagex often (maybe ever?) does things like that to people anymore

[chrome lantern]

It’s just a combat stat

You can justify it on any quest with combat

[meager flame]

but theres definitely a substantial number of quests that just have def sprinkled in there to mess with people

[vivid ruin]

Mm2

[meager flame]

its actually interesting too because all of that stuff happened when everything was totally different

like how people talk about restrictions and thats why the mode is interesting etc

all of that was nonsense back then

[chrome lantern]

Just because people play 1-defense account more than 1-other skill accounts doesn’t mean it should be treated any differently as a skill for requirements or quests

[meager flame]

people made pures to abuse the combat level mechanic and own noobs

they legitimately didn't care about or want restrictions lol

it wasn't even interesting to them

they just wanted to kill people

and jagex was trying to like

stop the game from being imbalanced

and they were failing

[chrome lantern]

And if you’re making a restricted account for that purpose it’s natural to not have access to other things as a result

[harsh herald]

That was 22 years ago

[meager flame]

ya but i'd say that for pures specifically

thats still pretty much why most of them exist

[harsh herald]

That was to etube

[meager flame]

sure theres the people that want to be like

the snowflake zerks in idk toa or something

[chrome lantern]

Playing a Pure outside PvP shouldn’t be treated any differently than playing a skiller

[meager flame]

but most of them are just trying to pk

[balmy widget]

Ironmen shouldnt have quest capes then

[chrome lantern]

There’s no need to design for it

[balmy widget]

Shield of arrav was changed for them

[chrome lantern]

I wouldn’t be opposed to that sure

[harsh herald]

They wouldn't be able to do the raid either if shield of arrav wasn't changed

Given that defender of vardock is a pre req thats a pre req for wgs

[tacit wharf]

was easier to make that change to shield of a rrov, then it was for them to rework the quest

[chrome lantern]

That would also be fine

[meager flame]

idk if it would really be fine

[harsh herald]

They had the option of doing neither which is what they've done with natures spirit and fremmy trials

[meager flame]

it would be kind of a hard sell to setup a situation where 30% of your players could never do raids 4 for example

[chrome lantern]

Ironman is a restricted account, it would be fine if there weren’t access to all the content

[meager flame]

thats probably not good for the game no matter how you want to look at it

[harsh herald]

I dont mind the change to shield of arrav, because it makes 0 impact to my gameplay

[tacit wharf]

ironman restriction is we cant trade, not we refuse to level a skill

[meager flame]

yeah but one of the quests was about giving items to other people

[harsh herald]

How would u trade a certificate for the quest

[balmy widget]

Ironman restriction is you stand alone

[meager flame]

and if they hadn't changed that

[balmy widget]

So being able to do group content doesnt make sense no?

[meager flame]

it would've spawned a long chain of events

[chrome lantern]

Having a quest require defense also has no impact on a pvp build if your build is made for the intention of PvP

You’re trying to say you’re on a build for PvP and everything else in the game at the same time

[harsh herald]

Theres not gonna be an argument that can be applied to the change of shield of arrav that cant apply to the pure situation lol

[chrome lantern]

That’s just called a normal account

[meager flame]

ultimately ending with irons never getting to do raids 4

now jagex did the right thing and changed the quest

and now more people will do the content and the game will be better

[harsh herald]

Exactly lol

[meager flame]

just like they probably should do the right thing for pures too just to do the raid like

why would you stop the 1 def guy from completing the raid

[harsh herald]

Honestly, i think at this point that everyone cares more about pure accounts than they care, its pretty weird

[hard axle]

jagex is allowed to deviate from past and choose to maximize engagement or be consistent based on questline

[minor whale]

I mean, you aren't actually "trading" as an iron
You're dropping a quest item to another player, and picking up a different quest item. Them making workarounds for irons is equivalent to them letting pures have access to Monkey Madness Island after quest, something which was changed purely to benefit pures.

Trying to shoe-horn that in to every single "pures not allowed" convo is tiring

[hard axle]

same for irons as well ngl

[tacit wharf]

100% easier to do this, then rework the quest and dialogue

[balmy widget]

You missed the point though

[tacit wharf]

we arent

[harsh herald]

I didnt drink the alcohol officer, the bottle tripped and fell into my mouth , went down my throat and just kept happening

[tacit wharf]

u are

[meager flame]

i just think its important to think about the restriction or requirements or whatever and make sure they actually make sense

[balmy widget]

The quest WAS changed specifically for ironman

[minor whale]

The people begging for dragon arrowtips to be made a consistent drop from somewhere are identical behavior to the pures asking for content to be made doable for them despite design

[meager flame]

like with a new raid i can't think of a positive reason to prevent people from going in with like a 1 def hardcore whatever and completing the raid

it would just make a cool youtube video

[chrome lantern]

The MM1 change as well was primarily so that you didn’t lose access to content by completing the quest. Prior to the change, you could either access Ape Atoll and not finish the quest, or finish the quest and use a dscim. Daero’s training was never a requirement to do either of those individually. Removing xp rewards/making them optional while letting you use the unlocks from a quest is very different

[meager flame]

i cant see any balancing concerns or anything to make you want to stop that from happening

[harsh herald]

I mean like cmon, just say it was a change to get around the restriction. It was recognised early into irons that they couldn't progress completely solo without subverting that restriction. But nobody cares, if it lets then continue to enjoy the game, so be it.

Like im not the gate keeper other users experience lmao

[ember token]

tbh my only concern is lore, i don't want them to make compromises and let people access something that needs the completion of quests (and therefore the story events that happen in those quests) if they haven't done them, because that's how you get what happened in RS3 where the game treats someone off tutorial island like they've already banished the gods from the world and have an understanding of the past 20 years of story

[hard axle]

but u are lowering the reqs overall, which i dont like

[harsh herald]

Takes nothing away from my account, that's the only one I care about lol

[meager flame]

i actually think the reqs should stay high but probably get a pass over to make sure they're not like

blocking anyone unnecessarily

[minor whale]

There's a whole quest series that requires you to have a specific defence level or combat, saying "we can't make any content pures would want to do locked behind that quest series" is stupid lol

[hard axle]

make it either 45 defense or 99 agility

i like this slop of compromise

[tender harness]

make zuk helm take 70 defense or 99 rc

[tacit wharf]

man i sure wish my mage/range only pure could solo kill olm meele hand.....

[hard axle]

make it nm solo time on a pure

or 70 defense

[balmy widget]

Plenty already got that

[hard axle]

on a mage only pure

[balmy widget]

Incorrect

[hard axle]

we gotta make it hard

gm zerks bitch about that task all the time pre-ayak

[chrome lantern]

Just drain the magic def- oh, wait

[hard axle]

😭

[balmy widget]

Yeah it was still possible before ayak though

[tender harness]

fuck gm zerks