game-update

[chrome lantern]

It was likely intended to clairfy that it fills combo eat role 1 rather than bwan role

And just added more questions xd

e.g. it's a "hard food" with 2t delay

[winged mantle]

[chrome lantern]

And now we know nothing about whether you can bwan afterward

[winged mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-hmm-pepehmm-table-council-gif-16396395487368552941

Us discussing how the new food works

[chrome lantern]

If only

There were moderators at Jagex

That could look at the channel intended to discuss latest game updates and blogs

And provide clarification on the active poll questions

[frail bough]

especially on a sunday at midnight

[restive storm]

never

[frail bough]

please and thanks

[narrow folio]

I'm sure they will get around to it

[restive storm]

reddit is ur only option

[chrome lantern]

Fair

[hard axle]

either way, its gonna pass

[restive storm]

go cause a ruckus there if u wanna hear from them

[chrome lantern]

But tbf this is exactly the time (after summit) I would expect them to be active

Like surely they could shift their hours or something for a special event

[hasty shard]

goblin was killed by the cow boss so he cant be here rn

[restive storm]

fr nobody asked them to do the summit at like 8-9 pm on a sunday lol

they chose the time

[frail bough]

🤦‍♂️

[austere mulch]

I think it’s intended space is to effectively be it’s own combo eat in content where you mele but like… where are you really combo eating these days 1. With hard food 2. Where you melee

Brew scb superiority

[ember token]

wdym, people would absolutely be complaining if the summit was at like 5 am in the US

[austere mulch]

Probably really good for that one low level iron that does slayer with melee and without protection prayers

[narrow folio]

it's supposed to be a large heal that doesnt brew you down

[restive storm]

as if there's no time between those 2 options

[frail bough]

literally so dumb lmfao

anything after 2pm us time is just later in the uk

[austere mulch]

Yeah but you can brew and repot before your next attack

[winged mantle]

Maybe there's the new maggot boss and it deals 60's

[austere mulch]

For more healing per inv and no delay

[chrome lantern]

I have an important question that was just brought up

[narrow folio]

but u consume a scb

and does it work with 4t weapons?

[chrome lantern]

Will there be any way to convert existing arrows into seeker arrows?

[austere mulch]

Yes

You can brew scb for anything 4t or slower

[winged mantle]

Yes with sap

[chrome lantern]

If not, RIP all of my existing 20k dragon arrows on my iron

[narrow folio]

yes

works on existing arrows

[chrome lantern]

Where does it say that

I don't see that

[narrow folio]

err read closer, let me see

[chrome lantern]

Sap is on shafts

[winged mantle]

Can't wait to spend 50 hours to convert 100k rune arrows

[ember token]

look literally right above the line you selected

[chrome lantern]

Oh

[winged mantle]

Above

[chrome lantern]

I blind

ty

[winged mantle]

[narrow folio]

there we go

would be so bad if it didnt work

[chrome lantern]

As my excuse I will say that it's 6:30 pm in my time zone

Oh wait

That doesn't help my case

[ember token]

you can apply the sap to logs, to arrow shafts, and to existing arrows

[fresh forge]

Etube more like Esnooze

😛

[chrome lantern]

It is a bit annoying that it's at the rate of standard logs though

[winged mantle]

Reckon a boss/ monsters will drop the sap?

[chrome lantern]

Think of how fun this will be!

[chrome lantern]

No, they said pretty explicitly that the intended loop is PvM -> Sap gathering booster -> Sap

So at the very least not significant amounts

Woodcutting and PvM

While Woodcutting is the core way to obtain Bloodwood sap, PvM in Vampyrium will be designed to meaningfully support, but not replace, this process.

Certain encounters will drop items that enhance your Woodcutting output rather than bypass it entirely. For example, some rewards may allow you to multiply the sap gathered from Bloodwood Trees, turning a smaller haul into significantly more when processed. Bosses may also provide limited amounts of sap directly, acting as a supplement rather than a standalone source.

This interconnected design ensures that players who engage with both skilling and combat will see faster overall progress, while still keeping Bloodwood Trees firmly at the heart of sap production. PvM is intended to accelerate your gains, but not eliminate the need to engage with the Woodcutting activity itself.

[winged mantle]

Gross

[chrome lantern]

Regardless of what you choose, Bloodwood Trees remain the primary source of Bloodwood sap, a key ingredient used in crafting one of Vampyrium's most coveted rewards: Seeker Arrows.

So probably some

[restive storm]

r u talking to me man? 1 ur not making any sense, and 2, obviously after 2pm is later in the UK, anything after ANY time is later in the UK, but are you saying there's no option for them to start between the hours of 5am US time and 3pm us time?

[winged mantle]

I reckon I can out pvm their woodcutting

[restive storm]

ill unblock u just cuz that was such a dumb point

[frail bough]

bro the original comment was that nobody is around because its too late and your argument against it being too late was that there are more times that are later...? tf are you on lmao

[hasty shard]

except bowfa arrows

[narrow folio]

god i wish there was an exception to make it work with bowfa

[restive storm]

no my argument is that they CHOSE to start it at that time, and they coulda started it early

[narrow folio]

thing has been getting shafted (no pun intended)

[hasty shard]

they are genuinely allergic to buffing bowfa

[chrome lantern]

The way the blog is written it sounds like we'll need a TON more sap to convert the arrows as well

[tacit wharf]

the US is also their biggest playerbase

[frail bough]

the times between 2pm and 5pm are not earlier in the day brother

2:01pm is after 2:00pm

[hasty shard]

i have to rework my stranglewood rewards because theyre adding bloodwood trees

[chrome lantern]

Because it talks about higher-tier logs giving more value, and then about sap -> existing arrows at the rates of normal logs

[restive storm]

i was responding to Data saying that the US andy's wouldnt be happy if it started at 5am 🤦‍♂️ bro ur cooked just sit this one out

[quiet plank]

is there not already an extension for gryphons? i swear to god i payed for one

[frail bough]

"they choose the time and then someone points out that doing it later would be worse, and you said there are times between the earliest time they chose and a later time"

[quiet plank]

am i making this up?

[narrow folio]

nah there isnt

[restive storm]

we hash it out tomorrow

[frail bough]

just stop lol

[winged mantle]

If the boss drops a bunch and I go dry on the pet it's gonna be enough

[ember token]

alumin i think you misread

because i was saying doing it earlier would be worse

[frail bough]

i didnt say that

[restive storm]

yeah idk this mans is cooked... guess going back to blocked

[analog crow]

Can we call the new tree types anything other than XYZwood?
Blisterwood, ironwood, rosewood, bloodwood...

[frail bough]

i definitely did read 5pm though

[chrome lantern]

It looks more like a bloodroot tbh

[frail bough]

so yes i am cooked

[narrow folio]

lets call it bloodbark

[analog crow]

[winged mantle]

If the monsters drop things that make you get 10x sap when harvesting, we're gaming

[restive storm]

its Squinttz must get ANGY and yell at him

[hard axle]

ngl, whatever time they choose, idrc

for these streams

[chrome lantern]

I mean 10x seems a bit ambitious but we'll see

[hard axle]

cuz no matter what

someone will get angry

[restive storm]

well thats for sure

[narrow folio]

I'm impressed you're a pker and did your own inferno. Respect!

[chrome lantern]

If it's horrendously awful without boosters that just means when you run out from PvM on an iron you have to go back like zulrah but worse

[restive storm]

i mean it was on a main w/ an ely it wasnt like it was rocket science

[quiet plank]

new bis shaft added to old school is crazy

[restive storm]

theres a reason i havent done it on my pure/50def

[narrow folio]

before this era

im more impressed with pures who rock fire cape because they arent cheaters

[quiet plank]

my shafts weren't impressive before but they had heart

[narrow folio]

bowfa getting shafted again 🙁

[restive storm]

https://tenor.com/view/flick-esfand-esfandtv-ricardo-milos-ricardo-flick-gif-13730968

me asl

[quiet plank]

why are my shafts going from a nice brown color to a fleshy red?

[restive storm]

altho i dont really normal pk anymore on my pure so guess it isnt me anymore 🙁

[analog crow]

let us use sap on bowfa to make goopy bowfa

[quiet plank]

shaft sap

[hasty shard]

true

[quiet plank]

sappy shaft

[narrow folio]

bowfa (cs) corrupted n sticky

[hasty shard]

blood bowfa hoooly imagine

[quiet plank]

blighted sappy shafts

[narrow folio]

i dont know how it could integrate with bowfa as shafts

[austere mulch]

Dragon seeker fire arrows p++ or I don’t want it

[narrow folio]

maybe u need to craft shafts with shards

so it would be another shard sink

to counter sailing

or add it as another charge mechanic to bowfa

[quiet plank]

ok after looking at the vampyrium blog again im not so dissapointed about the years updates because it is a LOT of skilling stuff

but like whys it all gotta be so late into the year

[narrow folio]

your bowfa has x ammo charges and x sap charges

[analog crow]

you have to sing crystalline sap (amber) and charge it to your bowfa

[quiet plank]

y know what we need?

[narrow folio]

and 23 accuracy is a LOT especially with tbow's multiplier

[quiet plank]

a gnome boss

i want a gnome boss

he just trolls you the whole time

[analog crow]

[[glouph]]

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Glough

[tacit wharf]

u need to purify the sap before u can add it to yr bow

[quiet plank]

glough isnt real

[analog crow]

he is real and he can hurt you

[quiet plank]

he didn't hurt me

[tacit wharf]

will hurt u*

[quiet plank]

i hurt him

i want a silly gnome fight

[analog crow]

[[gnomeball]]

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Gnomeball

[quiet plank]

its just a gnome who gets really mad that i kept killing the gnome men and the gnome women

so he takes revenge

actually glough mightve been right to hate me. i do commit homicides in gnome stronghold all the time

[ember token]

what player designed island are you voting for

or rather ranking at the top of the ranked choice vote

[analog crow]

Whichever one has an afk agility method

[quiet plank]

i skipped vote so i didnt have to read them

[chrome lantern]

None of them?

[restive storm]

3rd age island so i can complete my collection log

[sharp cave]

the one with the mini imbued heart

[quiet plank]

but i want whichever one had the crafting method

[chrome lantern]

I put wyrm one first because mini imbued heart/boss seemed most interesting

[quiet plank]

if i can get out of blowing glass ill be happy

[ember token]

i'm hoping the sea gnome village wins

[chrome lantern]

I think the agility method there is interesting

I don't care for the slayer or other stuff

[analog crow]

crafting certainly also needs more variety

[hasty shard]

also sea gnome village

[restive storm]

if ur not a charter ship andy ii have 0 respect for u

[analog crow]

good for you

[chrome lantern]

I don't think there's really any issues with crafting as-is tbh

[narrow folio]

where's this mini imbued heart?

[restive storm]

yeah idk how theres possibly an issue at this point tbh

[restive storm]

dhide, glass, bstaves

jewellry

theres a lot

[chrome lantern]

Even on an ironman I've done 93 crafting on my iron and GIM both, and you don't even need to rush 93 nearly as much as people do

[analog crow]

should have a method that isn't just bank standing

[chrome lantern]

Can I introduce you to multiskilling?

[analog crow]

no

[narrow folio]

still worse than forgotten brews :/

without the drawbacks tho

[restive storm]

forgotten brews

[chrome lantern]

Very forgotten

[restive storm]

im over here about to buy saturated heart #4

and my mans talm bout forgotten brews

[narrow folio]

not everyones rich like you king 🙁

[restive storm]

surely u can swing the first man no?

[chrome lantern]

I mean I'll admit I'm looking at the heart from an ironman perspective but it seems silly to lock an entire skill outside of raids behind a megarare menial labor drop

It would be one thing if it came from interesting content

[restive storm]

as much as i HATE conceding ironman points, yeah hearts kinda outrageous lol

[analog crow]

what's the xp rate for heart again?

[restive storm]

but is also the only reason its worth anything to mains

otherwise itd be a 2m giga mage buff

[winged mantle]

Like 50m

[minor whale]

10m ish if doing efficient slayer for heart

[analog crow]

holy hell

[chrome lantern]

It could be worth something if it just weren't from Slayer and had a real source lmao

If anything, being from trash slayer mobs probably drives its price down

[minor whale]

It's 32m at worst

[chrome lantern]

Because random billybob killing bloodvelds can get it

It would make more sense coming from actual content

[restive storm]

i mean i think that makes it worth more no?

cuz half the people skipping tasks like that lol

if it was just off a boss itd be worth like 0

[chrome lantern]

If it comes even remotely from anything that casuals do it will be affected heavily by that

[minor whale]

The best rate for heart is typically coming from mobs people don't do while doing efficient slayer yeah

You either do heart slayer or efficient slayer

[winged mantle]

Heart comes from efficient slayer

[hasty shard]

^ yeah wot

isnt it efficient slayer - boss/tzhaar tasks

[winged mantle]

Best tasks are burst/ vbow

Smoke devils, araxytes, nechs

Etc

[chrome lantern]

Specifically araxytes and smoke devils are high xp/hr

And so are abyssal demons

[hasty shard]

i do wish heart was divorced from the same grind as just doing the skill efficiently

[chrome lantern]

Honestly I would like to draw a parallel of the imbued heart with Sailing drops

[winged mantle]

I still think slayer could have been points from killing things not per task

More points on task but can get them off task

[chrome lantern]

The rate is designed based on hundreds of thousands of people doing opulent salvage not immediately crashing the dragon cannon barrel market

But if you ever actually want to get it then you're outta luck

[restive storm]

i mean sailing drops are kinda worth piss cuz there isnt really anything to do w/ sailing at this point

[narrow folio]

Curious how the tbow beats scythe at colosseum works. I can't get bow to beat on javelin for example?

[chrome lantern]

Yeah it's not a full comparison

But it shares that similarity

[restive storm]

they just released an unfinished skill so ofc the high end stuff not gonna be worth anything

[restive storm]

but yeah the barrels crazy rare

[narrow folio]

(real max is 83 but 85 max for the min hit effect)

[obsidian venture]

The rangers?

[narrow folio]

yes

[obsidian venture]

Tbow beats scythe at colo for everything except rangers + furries

[narrow folio]

ah ok letme check mino

[obsidian venture]

is what it said

[restive storm]

man why cant purging staff just auto cast ancients

[narrow folio]

seems correct w void

[restive storm]

would make my life a LOT easier

[tacit wharf]

cuz demon staff

[obsidian venture]

Would like auto cast to stay for standards tbh

[tacit wharf]

not ancient staff

[minor whale]

Efficient tasks yes but log hunters suggests you Turael skip everything except for the best heart tasks, which are just Smokes, Abyssals, and Araxxytes.

And you skip literally everything else

[narrow folio]

but dragon hunter wand (dragons have standards weakness) can auto ancients?

huuh?

[bronze kernel]

You can skip Abyssal Demons too I guess

Smoke and Araxyte have a much higher rate

[minor whale]

Abyssal Demons you kill quite quickly
They actually recommend extended them + araxxytes

And un-unlock everything else

"Do as many Araxxytes as possible" is the best but that'll increase your time at Turael a toooon

[restive storm]

also just incase anyone was wondering where reddit (the source of most of jagex ideas) stood on the WGS requirements

[narrow folio]

okok I hadn't considered void as being better than masori at colo

I suppose void multiplying the accuracy boosts is really good or the threshold for acc starts justifying the lower boost from the set

[oblique mesa]

Huh the blogpost says they are going to address some account types being locked out of raids 4

[narrow folio]

without straight removing quest reqs i dont see how its possible

[tender harness]

why should they.

people choose to play 1 defence, people there for choose to limit themselves

[tacit wharf]

cuz restricted account want to do something that they restricted themselves from

[tender harness]

fuck them

they made that choice deal with it

[tacit wharf]

indeed

[harsh herald]

same reason shield of arrav was addressed for irons

[tacit wharf]

here they come

[tender harness]

shield of arrav was also like 20 years old

raids 4 is not

[restive storm]

theres a few streamer pure irons that'd never allow jagex to lock them outta raids, even if i dont personally care whether or not we can access it

[hasty shard]

pures shouldnt get to run around with the new mega

[narrow folio]

I don't think it's a good precedent

all other raids don't have that kind of restriction

why should this one?

[thick beacon]

thanks for calcing this didint see it earlier

[tender harness]

fuck catering to snowflakes in every form

[restive storm]

cuz the playerbase was bullied by pures when they were like 11, so now its time for REVENGE\

block them outta content

[narrow folio]

🤣

[restive storm]

i mean its funny but also true

[midnight trench]

Would you like us to add Fishing spots to areas in the Sea to allow players to do regular Fishing from their boat?

From the latest sailing update polls. I’m wondering - can fish be stored in the cargo hold? If not - it’d be a bit annoying to have to sail to bank every inventory 🤔

[narrow folio]

they can add an alternative req to the quest idk

[obsidian venture]

Was vlad!

[zinc galleon]

Delete iron man mode

[narrow folio]

2nd bis at sire too no?

and 2nd bis at levi I think

[chrome lantern]

I don't think catering to limited builds is a good precedent either

[narrow folio]

asterisk being its better when rubies are bad

[thick beacon]

was scrolling through saw ppl say tbow would be better for maiden over scythe .

[narrow folio]

so we just lock limited accs out of raids and lose the content

yes tbow will beat scythe at maiden

xarpus I dont think so

[thick beacon]

ye i doubt xarpus

[restive storm]

the goons would never be happy w/ this

[narrow folio]

bp comes within 5%

[restive storm]

defense or NO RAID

[tacit wharf]

play the game vs no raid

[glossy lotus]

if you decide to play a pure which is a restricted form of gameplay, sucks to suck you wont always have access to the content. no we shouldnt cater to them

[analog crow]

It does feel goofy that if I'm doing slayer bossing I'm foregoing heart chance 😔

[vivid ruin]

Jamflex shouldnt pander to any special builds at all ever. Including ironmen

[restive storm]

its mostly due to the fact that they get upset when pures are objectively better at the game than them and can do content w/ no defense levels

[narrow folio]

I don't exactly like playing with pures for raids but no other raid has this restriction

[restive storm]

and make them look bad because they cant figure it out even with superior gear lol

[tacit wharf]

whats next, mage only accounts getting to attack olm meele hand cuz they dont wanna train att/str

[narrow folio]

such a major release shouldnt be locked out like this

mage only can attack olm hand

[glossy lotus]

toa is literally quest locked, im sure theres pures of some kind locked out of that raid

[narrow folio]

1/3 damage

[analog crow]

If they make 1 def pure an officially supported account type then I think all content should be available to them
Otherwise no, you get what you get.

[chrome lantern]

Someone's skill level has nothing to do with whether they play a pure or not

[restive storm]

right, but pures are objectively better players than mains if theyre doing the same content cuz they're doing so more flawlessly

[chrome lantern]

Not really

[narrow folio]

also i hope they make mok cloth tradeable

[restive storm]

yes really lo

[narrow folio]

skill req to turn it tradeable ez

[chrome lantern]

You can still play just as skillfully on a maxed account

[minor whale]

It's like 808s asking to be able to do all raids
There's gonna be requirements for stuff you don't meet due to your imposed restrictions

[restive storm]

thats like saying a pure inferno cape, and a main inferno cape are the same thing

they are not whatsoever

[tender harness]

Its like people are some how bothered by the idea of some content isnt accessible to them especially when they literally chose to handcuff them selves

[tacit wharf]

oh lordy no, imagine all the bots that just having them waiting for that to happen

[restive storm]

right im saying on average

[chrome lantern]

They're not the same thing but someone can be more skillful at the inferno on a main than someone that got an infernal cape on a pure

[tender harness]

Atleast 80% of pures bought their cape

[restive storm]

TRUE

[narrow folio]

they are making anguish tradeable AND considering rancour

why not the cloth?

[tacit wharf]

neither of those should be either

[zinc galleon]

The whole myrque quest line/region blocks 1 def. No sepulcher, but it’s trash anyway Cx

[chrome lantern]

I don't think that matters, there are plenty of people that are better at the game than me with any type of account, that doesn't mean that restricted accounts need to access all content

[restive storm]

that doesnt stop the ones who did it themselves being better players than like 99% of mains

[narrow folio]

but jagex is willing to do it

the bots will still need the requisite skill levels

they could already just buy the bracelet off the GE anyway

[chrome lantern]

I don't think you're making the argument you think you are

[tender harness]

The skill req for inferno on a pure is a higher floor than a main
Could look on pvp worlds and see the amount of bought capes and quiver

[restive storm]

hey man idec if pures get access u know i aint doin that raid on my pure anyway

[chrome lantern]

You're just saying that some people are good at the game

[analog crow]

I can't believe my combat only account is locked out of most quests 😭

[restive storm]

id just use my main

[chrome lantern]

Which doesn't really mean anything

[harsh herald]

there doesnt seem to be anyone that cares more about pure accounts than those that have only ever played mains lmao

[narrow folio]

so "what about bots" isnt a real counter to it

[restive storm]

this is hilariously true

they HATE the pures lol

the like 15-18 year trauma of dying back in 2006 is just too much

[minor whale]

It's not hate to say "we don't think you should get special consideration for your self imposed restriction"
It's exactly the same as Tassili begging for new dragon arrow sources

[narrow folio]

this is just qol so irons wont have to grind another zenyte to coffer or drop trade

[harsh herald]

like theres such a rancid hate for something that has no impact, like its both funny but its also like.. its just a game, do you really care that much about other people wanting some fun in it

[restive storm]

i think consideration is warranted, given the prevalence over a 20+ year time span, though i agree you dont ALWAYS need to cave to the demand

i think theres reasonable times to deny access

[floral blaze]

How does content being made more accessible towards restricted builds personally affect you THOUGH

[restive storm]

but to say we should never make considerations after the games been updated like 5,000 times is a little wild

[narrow folio]

its not like the items are available to pures

we dont know yet

those items can have reqs

[hasty shard]

i dont like the implication that they could be

[narrow folio]

this is just to even do the content

[restive storm]

ego gets hurt when pures do the content faster than them

[narrow folio]

pures can already use all the other megarares

but various armors and drops have reqs they cant access

[glossy lotus]

none of us give a shit about your restricted build, or how they almost always are used for pk. but were not bending quest requirements you chose to not be able to complete. get over it

[obsidian venture]

General player doesn't have fingers so it's not really a big ask to do more dps than a good amount of folks

[narrow folio]

also there are pure streamers and content creators that jagex would like to support and promote the raid so

[obsidian venture]

If you start bypassing what the term "restriction" means then what's the point

[minor whale]

I hate the double tap emote feature

[obsidian venture]

Yeah same

[minor whale]

95% of the time it's me going to add a different emoji and it defaults to that

[austere mulch]

Not really, no. At least not this generally

There are places where this is more true than others though like inferno. But even then, top tier inferno speedrunners are way better than people who can clear the inferno on a pure but don’t actively speedrun

Mr. 222 trout dude is a great example of this

There’s a jump in skill between doing something just to get to the other end at all costs vs doing something to complete it as efficiently as possible

[restive storm]

right but seeing as it isnt even in the game yet, it isnt a requirement

so you could just NOT make it require that lmao

[harsh herald]

we should remove summer pies from the game

[glossy lotus]

it is the guthix themed raid, its requiring while guthix sleeps. if you want to partake in the content make a normal main and level it.

[narrow folio]

Why do you think so?

[restive storm]

https://tenor.com/view/confused-no-nope-gif-5413974953753901704

[minor whale]

He's gonna make some weird comparison between boosting levels and restrictions

I guarantee it

Something about "you don't have the required agility level you can't do the content"

[glossy lotus]

so youre just simping for pures then for no reason other than attention. got it

[harsh herald]

im glad you saw the vision

but whats the counter argument

[ember token]

allowing you to access content without the quests reqs is what RS3 does for a lot of things and it's so bad, half the story assumes you already have 20 years of understanding of the lore and you get npcs talking about events like the player already did them or knows what they are

so i'd very much not want them to start doing the same in OSRS, letting people access content without requiring them to do important story content

[restive storm]

no i am also a pure, im just stating a fact that most pures are better players than mains

[minor whale]

There's plenty of content you can't boost for to do 👍

[tacit wharf]

no he's got a failed pure that he got 3 def on over 7 years ago, that he still plays but wants -xp lamp so he can fix it

[hasty shard]

99 sailing
fake pvper

[harsh herald]

name one

[restive storm]

icl bro im mad they made me do it

[tacit wharf]

thermy

[minor whale]

I can name about a dozen probably

[glossy lotus]

hydra

[restive storm]

im like 99% sure u CAN boost thermy to do it for the diary off task lol

[harsh herald]

fair -did think that after i typed it, but every skill can be boosted with spice or a pot

[minor whale]

What

You can't do the quest without the level

Even if you boost

It doesn't work

[chrome lantern]

Pyramid plunder floors
Hallowed Sepulcher floors

Minnows

Docking

Rogues den

[restive storm]

naw sry sry ill remove

nothing related to that

[minor whale]

🤔 🥒

[chrome lantern]

You also cannot do this

[restive storm]

oh, its just 1 off task once u have level?

[minor whale]

Ye

[restive storm]

is off task not the equivalent to boosting?

[minor whale]

You get 1 kill without task

[harsh herald]

just fyi, the point was that we have boosts that allow you to do content you are supposed to be restricted against - already conceded that you theres things that you cannot

[minor whale]

But still need level

[ember token]

if you can boost for it then you're not restricted from it

[harsh herald]

but we dont remove those boosts, because theyre fine to bypass

[ember token]

you're not breaking the rules by boosting to access something

[glossy lotus]

using a small boost usually less than a few hours worth of gameplay of training to complete one time tasks is not the same as allowing people to complete an entire quest line that they chose to be restricted from

[ember token]

thats just a part of the game

[minor whale]

This whole argument makes no sense lmao

[restive storm]

eh, any content locked due to an arbirtrary requirement, rather than locked due to the inability of people to complete it is a big jagex fail

make the raid hard if you want, but arbitrarily requiring XYZ stat is a little cringe if people can do it

[glossy lotus]

so everyone should be able to go to tob off tutorial island is what youre saying

[restive storm]

yes, but that doesn't mean theyre gonna complete it

you gotta do what? priest in peril? to be able to do that?

[ionic tartan]

If you're doing an apple to apple comparison then this is generally true that the pure is more skilled.

Like if you're comparing having infernal capes, then the pure is more skilled than a main.

If you're comparing speed runners, then the pure speed runner is more skilled than the main.

And some cases don't compare to each other. Like 1 def no overheads infernal is harder, but mains can't attempt that.

[glossy lotus]

tha defeats the entire purpose of questlines in every game to exist

[restive storm]

god forbid we invalidate priest in peril

https://tenor.com/view/kermit-kermit-the-frog-kermit-the-frog-meme-worried-kermit-sad-kermit-gif-2908512056935738589

the premiere end-game quest we all know and love

[restive siren]

The requirements to do things are one of the greatest things osrs has to offer, the rabbit holes of needing to do x to do y to do z are what makes osrs so great, if you remove all "arbitrary" requirements you just end up with a sandbox where nobody has goals or any idea what to do

[restive storm]

oh god no not a sandbox

whatever will we do with a sandbox mmo

oh wait

[analog crow]

osrs would be lesser for it for sure

[sacred oracle]

Yeah, I don't see a reason to lift or make an exception to the raids requirement. If you have a restricted account, you have restricted options on what you can do. Seems cut-and-dried to me.

If people complain enough, though, I'm sure Jagex will lift the requirement. Whether or not that's a good thing, I can't say.

[restive sapphire]

someone once called osrs a metroidvania and that fucked me up a bit

[sacred oracle]

It's just the reality we're likely working with.

[restive storm]

you're telling me, OSRS would be lesser, if pures have access to the 4th raiid?

r0fl

[languid ravine]

pures are meant for pking not pvming

[analog crow]

please read

[languid ravine]

theres no advantage to be lower cmb in pvm

[restive storm]

correct there's more of a challenge tho

[sacred oracle]

No reason to make it personal

[restive siren]

I know its a sandbox already but a very well curated one. Removing all that care turns it knto a mess

[restive storm]

which some people (not including myself) like

[ionic tartan]

The pures hiscore is the antithesis of that idea.

[harsh herald]

we have one person arguing that osrs would be lesser and another alluding that the most successful MMROPG has no requirements for raids. which is it lol

[restive storm]

the first person to ever stand up for me while im being bullied

[ionic tartan]

Pvp is dead, tons just stuck to pvm on a pure for the challenge

[languid ravine]

the sandbox is the fact you can have both a pure acc and a main acc

[ember token]

add an item that drains your defense to 1 and prevents it from being restored

problem solved

now you can do raids 4 with 1 defense

[restive storm]

https://tenor.com/view/orange-dancing-kid-meme-lit-gif-11697499

me if that ever comes in the game

[ionic tartan]

Gotta prevent armor and piety/rigour/augury too, tons of dps coming from there.

[austere mulch]

even apples to apples isnt that granular

and this may be a personal anecdote

but I had an easier time with 1def inferno than i did with msb+rcb inferno

for this to even hold up, you have to assume that the main isn't also capable of doing it on a pure

which isnt always the case

eg. i dont think gnomemonkey has done 1def inferno, but zero doubts he can

doesnt make someone who has a 1def infernal better at inferno than him

[ionic tartan]

That's what I'm getting at, top tier "pure pvmers" have both pures and main. So at a certain point that comparison stops working.

But if you're sticking to the general case of someone with infernal cape on pure vs main. The pure is more skilled.

Like there are iron pures who also do infernal with rcb

[analog crow]

Pure certainly will tank less so has to master the mechanics to a higher standard

[restive storm]

we're also talking about the average of each, obviously the giga top tier main can do inferno etc on a pure lol

the avg main that completes the inferno is worse than the avg pure though and thats not debatable

[narrow folio]

but most pures who have capes don't actually have a cape if you know what i mean

[restive storm]

right, im excluding those cheaters

[narrow folio]

👍

[restive storm]

but according to jagex thats apparently fair game

[harsh herald]

theres such a staggering amount of parsec'd capes when you look around, its unreal

[austere mulch]

yeah no doubt, somone who learns inferno with greater restrictions is more competent at the content, by the time they get the first clear, than someone who learns it without restrictions. From there, the gap closes as experience is gained on both

but most ppl are 1 and doners or buyers

[restive storm]

i mean you pretty much dont even need to look around anymore thats how prevalent it is

[daring geyser]

Regarding blood moon rises, I think The Maggot King looks really cool, but I feel like the name is a bit plain. Thoughts? Is this a common sentiment?

[tacit wharf]

idk, got a kind of ring to it

[analog crow]

In general I would prefer if the boss had a name in the vampyres' og old zarosian language that we knew it by. They call their hunting dogs Venators after all.

[steep tangle]

I like the word Progenitor better than king

[zenith pike]

Maggoth Ur

[tacit wharf]

ya but no 1 want to type progenitor

[minor whale]

I hoped it'd have more of a cool name
King of Decay or something

[daring geyser]

yeah

something a bit more alien

or vampyre ish

[harsh herald]

Agree - it may not be the actual name, I think with Huey they kept the name back for a bit so that it didnt get sniped?

[daring geyser]

oh maybe yeah

[minor whale]

Flystrike King (so more people Google flystrike)

Would be very funny

[hoary verge]

I like the idea of cosmetically being able to just be a demon after Leaves VI
Though
I think something may not have occurred to the UK devs, that stands out more in the US
And might be worth a second look to avoid headaches later on

https://cdn.runescape.com/assets/img/external/oldschool/2026/Newsposts/2025-06-06/rt2_g7122.png

[chrome lantern]

I'm American and I have no idea what you're referring to

[languid ravine]

im guessing indians by some mental gymnastics

[hoary verge]

"Redskin," yeah, it's a headache waiting to happen

[ember token]

no it isnt

no ones getting offended over this

[vivid ruin]

Overly pc is absolutely stupid

[tacit wharf]

but u can have a completely black character already

[ionic tartan]

We already got pitch black skin color

[restive storm]

it is a rough life out here for a demon rn man, we scraping the bottom of the barrel

[hoary verge]

Lmao

You thought you'd be a Yama but you find out you're an Imp

[tacit wharf]

we already got brown skin as well

do we have yellow?

[floral blaze]

How long did it take for someone to bite the bait

[ionic tartan]

Oh and complete white too

[harsh herald]

I think he's referring to the name being potentially derogatory in the blog, not the actual character colour

[hoary verge]

^

[tacit wharf]

the characters skin is red

so red skinned

[hoary verge]

Like it's red red, not a real skin tone
I don't see anyone getting upset about that

[harsh herald]

Yes, that's understood ace lol

[tacit wharf]

look like me when i spend to much time out in the sun

[chrome lantern]

Acting like it would be any different if it were called crimson or demon or something

[harsh herald]

Bruh

[languid ravine]

isnt redskins a football team 🤣

[restive storm]

i been out here for a minute bro lol

[tacit wharf]

until the politically correct came around, yes

[hoary verge]

They renamed it and there was a huge Whole Thing

[restive storm]

was doing some skull tricking/baiting and some classic wow gearing since the summit, then made some dinner

its weird, its like fishing, sometimes like last night u make 150m in an hour, some nights are just slowww

[harsh herald]

They will probs change it if it gets seen, not a common term over here

[vivid ruin]

Didnt redskins change their name back lol

[hoary verge]

They'll probably do what they did with other stuff like this
IE find some relevant people, ask them about it
And they'll either provide an alternate name or go "Nah it's fine"
And if anyone asks, Jagex can say they asked

[harsh herald]

With the size of the American player base in this game, I think it will probs be changed in the blog

Regardless, they could probs have a more thematic name anyways

[hoary verge]

Like
It's an excellent cosmetic reward
Especially if it properly matches some of the demon accessories we already have

[harsh herald]

All the league rewards are 10/10

[tacit wharf]

would argue then, they'd have to do so with all the other skin color names

cant be seen favoring one over the others

[hoary verge]

Nah most of them are just regular skin tones

[tacit wharf]

red isnt a skin tone?

[true talon]

I dont think so. this is obviously demon skin......

[tacit wharf]

i beg yr pardon, it is on a sunny day

[true talon]

dont be trying to inject your real world bs into fantasy worlds

[ember token]

Should the Demon Skin Colour, as described in the blog, be added to the Leagues Reward Shop??

[restive storm]

we're way past that lol

[harsh herald]

Ill be honest Ace, I feel like the majority of any conversations on these topics with you, its a bit like whenever theres more than 1 thought process it gets too complicated to explain to you lol

[tacit wharf]

i should say the scots have a few words to give ya

[restive storm]

im a little surprised that idea didnt set off alarm bells in their heads over there lol

[harsh herald]

Yes, the skin is red but yes red skin is also a derogatory term. Both things are true lol

[tacit wharf]

...

[harsh herald]

Honestly, not a term ever said here

[true talon]

Dw the people who are offended by everything are no longer able to make decisions. RIP aunt jemma syurp and uncle bens rice.

[tacit wharf]

aunt jemma syurp, isnt the same

[ember token]

this reminds me of the thing with the eye of ayak where people were saying jagex has to rename it because ayak supposedly stands for "are you a klansman" or something like that

[true talon]

it was changed to a windmill or something stupid

[harsh herald]

I think people were just more annoyed that anytime you typed it on a stream it would get blocked lol

[true talon]

Again i dont see DEMON RED SKIN causing any problems at all....

[vivid ruin]

I think being overly pc in and of itself has its own undertones of racism and whatever just by proxy. Like saying a character with red skin somehow resembles natives is like wot m8 lmao

[harsh herald]

Nobody is saying that lol

[vivid ruin]

Im just using this as example

[tacit wharf]

it also hasnt been an insult people say in over 40 years

[restive storm]

yeah i think my brain went to the fact that i know a few jagex employees are big american football fans, and MUST be aware of the controversy over the last few years lmao

[true talon]

I agree, should change the RED demon skin to ORANGE for reasons......

[harsh herald]

Okay ill give you guys an example, are people aware of what we call cigarettes in the UK?

[tacit wharf]

well aware

[restive storm]

not that i agree/disagree but i just would think they wouldnt wanna deal w/ it

[ember token]

theres nothing to deal with

[hoary verge]

Something that'd get *** in the game lol

[harsh herald]

Right, its a common term, but would that be appropriate for a blog?

[restive storm]

https://tenor.com/view/yeah-ok-okay-thats-right-gif-14556058

[ember token]

the problem is in your head

[true talon]

Well i think its a cool reward, just like the demon digger....... the issue is in your head.

[restive storm]

ill try telling the NFL that

[vivid ruin]

The company jagex being from the UK, i think Americans would understand

[tacit wharf]

hate those that try to tell others that they need to be offended

[ember token]

you guys are out here comparing actual slurs to jagex having the words "red skin" next to a picture of a character having actual demon red skin, meanwhile ignoring that it says demon skin in all the other places besides the image

[harsh herald]

😂 mate, im british, not a term that I care about. Just going in circles as to why it may be a problem for jagex to have the term in the blog

[tacit wharf]

an im part native

so

[ember token]

you're not being offended enough ace

get on it

you need to cancel jagex asap

[vivid ruin]

You can only be so pc before its just circular logic so its whatever

Feel like we're all about to get muted

[tacit wharf]

pingu incoming

[true talon]

I want orange skin and maybe a blonde wig

[azure mist]

anyone know if cow boss quest requires kc to get the amulet?

[hoary verge]

Orange would go with the capybara orange hat

[true talon]

True i vote to change the red skin to orange so its less offensive hehehe

[hoary verge]

Nah fam it's a good cosmetic

[restive storm]

mans been looking for a reason to send me to the shadow realm 👀

[tacit wharf]

id send u to the shadow realm

[restive storm]

well thats not sayin much is it

[chrome lantern]

🕳️

Get in

[restive storm]

me being a pure is worthy of a perma ban in here innit

[ember token]

(context is a thing that exists btw - if jagex dressed up the literally red skinned character models as native americans in the picture, then you'd have an actual argument here)

[true talon]

your not a real pure, because you got 3 defense

[restive storm]

😈

[oblique mesa]

https://tenor.com/view/big-oof-size-small-medium-switch-gif-17355313

[true talon]

Dw you can get me on the 30th

I remember when the warlock tier set in wow was extremely pointy hat and there was outrage (mainly because they made the set white)

but that was low key funny and worthy of change

[restive storm]

can never have anything w/o people losing their minds

[restive storm]

https://tenor.com/view/money-crying-woody-harrelson-wiping-tears-with-money-gif-6945518

also

[hoary verge]

Double checking, this is indeed literally the only place it comes up in the blog. The skin tones in the ingame menu don't have names, so it wouldn't come up again in the future, either

[true talon]

I mean it was kinda justfied what was they thinking.

[harsh herald]

The thralls overrides are dope

[hoary verge]

Raises the possibility of more thrall overrides in the future too

[ember token]

yeah they cooked with the league rewards, these are probably the best rewards out of any league

[hoary verge]

Which could be lotsa fun

[remote ruin]

Barrows thrall override when

[harsh herald]

They should have overrides for collo.

[hoary verge]

Makes me sad that I've grown past using Iban Blast

[harsh herald]

Complete the cas, get overides of the npcs

[hoary verge]

Cuz that Ibans staff one

Tho

They do have a sick one for Trident of the Swamp

Which is def still relevant where I'm at

Also

[harsh herald]

Thank god ive still got like 62k points from last year

[hoary verge]

I have this and the V-Rising discord right next to each other, threw me for a sec when I came in here earlier today and saw the BLOOD MOON RISING first thing

Did anyone else see the t3 Leagues outfit preview and think Disturbed

Def gonna get a lot of mileage out of the tier 2 hood tho

Imagine

If we could bring back the red Dagon'hai robes ornament somewhere

And you wear it with the hood from the teir 2 Leagues VI outfit

[harsh herald]

Would look dope

Gonna need that need demon Throne for wildy over ride poh too

[hoary verge]

Ferox/Wildy style PoH would kick so much ass

As for what's actually available drip... Elder Chaos robes with that hood, probably

[harsh herald]

Not mad at them for introducing it as a dmm reward but I swear it was originally polled just to come in the game

With a priff theme too

[hoary verge]

Oh shoot do they have wildy and priff house themes in the works?

[chrome lantern]

Yeah it was

It was part of a broad question along the lines of "should we make these PoH improvements"

[languid ravine]

wilderness poh portal 🤯

[harsh herald]

Its a dmm reward this year yeah

Not the priff one but the wildy

[hoary verge]

For the dmm that just went live today?

[chrome lantern]

Starts in 5 days

[hoary verge]

Damn

Usually I only have time to do one of these events in a year but hmm

[restive storm]

dmm > leagues for sure

[hoary verge]

I do have a big backlog of League points and nothing much that's caught my eye to spend it on the past couple years

So even if I skip League this year I'd be able to probably buy whatever I want

[harsh herald]

If ur gonna do one or the other, do dmm its far more profitable

But leagues was by far the most enjoyment ive had in the game last year ngl lol

[hoary verge]

Yeah Leagues is chill af

Maybe if I can see a preview of the wildy house theme

Oh hmm and both League and dmm stuff is tradeable

Tough call

[harsh herald]

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/File:Game_Jam_V_-_PoH_Customisation_Update_4.png

[chrome lantern]

Leagues 4 and 5 were so awful for me, it's just not fun anymore doing Region-Locked-Trailblazer-Leagues-Repeat-3

[harsh herald]

Its in one of the videos but idk which

[chrome lantern]

I'm desperately hoping they stop doing region-locked leagues, it's so played out and boring

[harsh herald]

Dmm rewards are consumable though, hence why the weapon scroll is currently like 200m+ and only traded once per day

[hoary verge]

Controversial opinion but I think they bailed on the relic shards from Shattered too quickly
That could be real sick with some more QoL for managing them, like loadouts

[harsh herald]

Already confirmed its region locked

[chrome lantern]

I know

I was heartbroken

It sucks

[hoary verge]

I'll be really curious to see how they work Sailing into Leagues in the one after

[chrome lantern]

Locking yourself to only one combat style is not fun, and if you only get to upgrade one then the other two suck

Picking an entire region for one piece of content is not fun

Picking regions that you don't really want so that you can do stuff with your friends isn't fun

[hoary verge]

Sailing doesn't really like structurally fit with region locks

[chrome lantern]

Good! Stop region locking!

Leagues 3 was by far the best one they've done so far, they just need to make the unlocks not trivial

Even region locking can be fine if you aren't limited in how many you can unlock, imagine if by dragon tier you could unlock all the regions

[harsh herald]

I dont mind region locking, means you've got more planning and thought into picks

[chrome lantern]

I'm not playing Leagues to plan, I'm playing to play lmao

I enjoyed Leagues 2 a lot

[harsh herald]

Im doing both I guess lol

[chrome lantern]

But Leagues 4 and 5 being Leagues 2 but just the same thing again with 1 or 2 gimmicks?

That's not fun

It's bland

It's limiting

Not in a good way

They talk about Leagues as being a "Power fantasy" (jmod words) then they do as much as possible to limit you

Gridmaster was more fun than Leagues 4 and 5 combined

[harsh herald]

Theres probs some joke here about how I enjoy limiting myself but im struggling to find it

[chrome lantern]

If planning is the concern, we already have that with routing

People going for hiscores will still plan and route

[restive sapphire]

honestly agree (never put more than 6 hours in any league)
the new starting area + unlock system was novel for leagues 3 and it was worth revisiting
each year it's more apparent how much of a shithole kandarin/karamja are bc they never update those places

[hoary verge]

I liked Gridmaster but it definitely wouldn't hold my attention for 8 consecutive weeks of gaming
Once you get to the Tbow autocannon there's only so much fun in doing a victory lap around the game

[harsh herald]

Yeah for saying how much I enjoyed leagues, grid master got a bit boring rather quickly for me idk why

[restive sapphire]

gridmaster was power singularity
wonder if there are ppl who actually get turned off bc they experienced gridmaster and dont have the same instakill fantasy

[chrome lantern]

Well yeah it was designed poorly. If I were basing a Lgeagues off the good things of Gridmaster, I would get rid of the t6 combats (at least definitely ranged), and there obviously wouldn't be the same magnitude of power for a longer-term event than a 1 day event

Gridmaster was designed for a weekend

You don't have to use the same rules

But the concept was way better

Being actually able to switch combat styles was amazing

If you took away the grid rewards, the progression actually felt really good - I did a snowflake Gridmaster account where I didn't accept any of the item rewards from grid tiles

[hoary verge]

I wouldn't say Gridmaster was designed poorly, it was only half as long as a League so that it wouldn't overstay its flavor

[chrome lantern]

I wouldn't say it was designed poorly either

But if you were using it for a full-scale Leagues timeframe I would

[hoary verge]

Yeah it's not suited to that at all

It's a different beast

[chrome lantern]

That doesn't mean they can't learn from the good things about it, like I mentioned

Actually being able to use multiple combat styles? Amazing.

[restive sapphire]

considering that sailing wont be in leagues 6 there will be basically 0 new main content going from griddy to leagues 6
i think they gotta go crazy with echo bosses + relics

[chrome lantern]

Being able to do all the content? Great!

[hoary verge]

A redux of Shattered Relics with a bit more polish and consequence could be sick

[chrome lantern]

Being able to not unlock everything, or at least not until like dragon cup, would be good

They backpedaled on the original design and got rid of all the consequence too early in Leagues 3

The mode wasn't flawed but they executed it poorly

Then they decided that unlocking 3 regions is the only way Leagues would ever be again

I would significantly prefer a lack of region choices to the current region-locking systems

Akin to Leagues 1, I've seen people suggest Kourend+Varlamore a few times

[hoary verge]

I think they'll have to rethink it a bit when they come to Leagues 7 and have to include Sailing

If they continue with region choice, they could try to divvy up the map differently

[restive storm]

i challenge anyone who claims that the pj timer was put into the wilderness to promote fairness, to explain to me why i as a pure have to deal w/ baby meds w/ 75 def 77 prayer at like lvl 97 combat thinking its a "fair" fight

this is so gross

[chrome lantern]

Overall, my comments on Leagues:
-There are ways to give players way more agency while still not giving access to everything - similar to the Leagues 3 model but without making it trivial to unlock everything
-Current region/combat models make irrevocable decisions that make content feel bad to do when it's not directly in line with your build, with no ability to ever change your mind if it doesn't play out how you expect.
-We've done the same Leagues 3 times now (Trailblazer, Trailblazer Reloaded, and Raging Echoes) with only minor polish and gimmicks, and haven't revisited Leagues 1 or 3 at all.

[hoary verge]

Maybe for the Sailing League, they restrict you to places you can sail to

[chrome lantern]

I would significantly prefer that to the Trailblazer 4 we're getting

No matter what combat mastery gimmick they add in with the Pacts

[hoary verge]

All the port towns on mainlands get boxed in from their wider environs

Islands are free real estate

[chrome lantern]

It's just going to end up locking in a style and having your other two styles be worthless again

I don't see a Sailing-only Leagues happening anytime soon, but maybe a community event like Gridmaster

[hoary verge]

Yeah that seems more fitting

[chrome lantern]

There's just not going to be enough there for like a decade

[hoary verge]

What I really liked about Shattered Relics was the extra dimension of buildcraft it added

That was juicy

[chrome lantern]

The interface and locking/unlocking systems had a lot of work to do to make them better, but with basic things like presets and rebalancing unlocks it would be significantly better

[hoary verge]

I think boss variants are a good seasoning going forward

They'll have a lot to iterate with there before they start hitting a lot of repeats

[bronze kernel]

They should actually make the Ocean its own region.

[hoary verge]

Or multiple, depending on how much stuff is in it by then

But that's hmm

Might be sauce there

Might be onto smth

That is more or less how it works

[bronze kernel]

Any islands that can be accessed without Sailing count as part of whatever region

Islands that require sailing count under the Ocean region

[hoary verge]

You can do Port Tasks but you can't set foot beyond the range you can carry cargo crates if you don't have the region where you're landing

Tho

This does mean Ocean is a necessary pick if you want to max

[tender harness]

people already up in arms about pures being locked out of raids 4

[north peak]

they arent

[round lintel]

Please for these new boss they are adding, for god sake dont add a food drop

[north peak]

literally says theyre looking for a way to allow them to do it in the blog

[round lintel]

Yama is also horrible in this sense

[bronze kernel]

They did mention they might add something to accommodate the limited builds

[tender harness]

fuck that

bad precedent

[north peak]

cry

[bronze kernel]

You chose to limit yourself

Bla bla bla

[tender harness]

grown ass adults cant live with their own self imposed restrictions 😭 and are crying to Jagex to fix it

[north peak]

love these tears

[bronze kernel]

Game imposed restrictions, I can understand. But self-imposed ones? Cringe.

[tender harness]

lets put a portal to raids 4 in every chunk
cant exclude chunk locked accounts
dont forget sailing locked ones too may as well allow a teleport from the boat

why cant I just get my barrows gloves at one cooking

I chose to not do cooking on my 1 defense cookless pure so I should still get them

[north peak]

cant wait for someone to complete the raids solo on a level 50 account while you still struggle to do it at max combat

[tender harness]

you probably think all pures have legit inferno capes too

[round lintel]

I dont have a pure nor I intend to get one, but you guys are so mean to others who decided to play differently.

[restive storm]

This is pretty much 80% of peoples problems with pures lol, it just reminds them how not good at the game they are

[tender harness]

the idiot blocked me

[restive storm]

By doing the content with less resources

[hoary verge]

If the raid requires WGS
That sounds like it might take place in the chasm
Seems kinda neat to have the new hardest raid be located below Lumbridge
Like you started your journey here, and now at its apex you return

[ember token]

meanwhile the reality https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqF_A6bsyEw

[north peak]

they die to level 70 pures on their level 100 mains and think it's the combat system being broken rather than them being bad at the game

[restive storm]

The reality is most people hate pures cuz they got bullied in the wilderness at one point in their life or another, not some faux sense of justice that because they have at least 40 defense they deserve more content lol

[austere mulch]

couldnt care less if pures do or dont get access to raids 4. That said, it does beg the question - at which point do you accept that self imposed restrictions may or may not keep you from engaging in new content as it does some existing content

[languid ravine]

isnt the advantage of pures is less risk cos u dont wear armor

[austere mulch]

ie. should pures just get access to all future content or should their restriction actually be a meaningfull restriction

[ember token]

people are just tired of hearing the cries of snowflake accounts to have their restrictions lessened

[north peak]

no other raid requires you to have any combat levels you can do tob on a level 3

[languid ravine]

mains not risking much if they 4 item tho obv

[restive storm]

i think theres plenty of things where it makes sense, like we dont have access to fremmy quests, fairy rings, vampire quests, and several others

[tender harness]

they can have more content by playing a main or an iron fun fact
most people truly dont give a shit about pures anymore
its when discussions like this come up and people whine about their self imposed restrictions and wanting it lessened which is a detriment to the health of the game.

[austere mulch]

cant do tob on a lvl 3 anymore unless u have an account where you could get mory access before the patch

shoutout rendi

[vivid ruin]

Its lower cb, higher max hits vs people with lower overall stats other than def or prayer (generally)

[restive storm]

then why do they screech and whine if considerations are given to let pures have access to the content they can already do? lol

[languid ravine]

yeah and pure have huge healthpool even compared to main which is arguably mroe useful to survive

[vivid ruin]

Depends but yeah

[languid ravine]

IDK how it compares zerk vs pure ive only ever been a main noob

75 def wont do me much good if im wearing rune also

[true talon]

should be a seperate drop from the actual loot, like every other boss in the game

[north peak]

people act like pures are some sort of unrecognised build despite them having their own highscore

[restive storm]

fr, its like they havent existed until the last 2/3 years

and for some reason want consideration for their game mode

despite being at least a decade older than ironmemes

[true talon]

Just allow people to reject quest XP

[minor whale]

Are you sure about that
Unless you glitch the game like Rendi did which is now patched out

[languid ravine]

imo sara brews should reduce ur max hp not go over, then u can really suffer if u wanna outsustain u risk getting clapped by big numbers xD

[restive storm]

oooooo technicality bro he got u, u gotta have like 13 prayer

so ur point is invalid

[tender harness]

Brews should give defense exp to anyone under 2 defense

[minor whale]

I mean also gl getting to ToA as a level 3

[round lintel]

at Hydra i got b3b double potion drop is soooo annoying

[restive storm]

nobody is asking for the raid to be accessible for lvl 3s

just incase that wasnt clear

[tender harness]

where do you draw the line

[languid ravine]

pures are also immune to defence debuffs

[minor whale]

Guy says something wrong
Gets corrected
"umm akshually that wasn't my point"

[austere mulch]

this is the question ye

[restive storm]

idk man, if i have 99 in every other stat in the game except defense

is that not good enough?

[tender harness]

people want it on their 1 defense pure
that opens the flood gates for literally everything else

[languid ravine]

tho idk if theres very many def debuffs since nobody is using curses and such

[austere mulch]

i do think its weird overall for pures not to get access to a raid

that said, if thematically they shouldnt, thats fine too

imo

ie. quests

[tender harness]

I would imagine or assume that requirement gets removed in time because lore

but like its too early

to have any idea

[languid ravine]

why wouldnt they have access, i checked the guthix quest it doesnt give def exp does it

or pre-reqs?

[tender harness]

dream mentor

and other pre reqs

[north peak]

nature spirit give def

and 40 def req for one of the fremmy quests

[hoary verge]

Side note

During the quest, players will finally set foot beyond the limits of Gielinor itself, crossing into Vampyrium

Yu'biusk: "Am I a joke to you"

Tbf... Yes you are, Yu'biusk. Yes you are.

[bronze kernel]

I want to see that storyline competed.

[brisk hill]

hello

[hoary verge]

Saaaaame

[ember token]

dont worry we'll see it completed sometime in the next few decades

[austere mulch]

i just want the final kourend quest so we can finally use thralls without book

pls n ty

[hoary verge]

When we finally find Zanik again and she's like "Why are you so old now"

[north peak]

would like that too

[hoary verge]

And we'll be like "What?" because we've gone deaf

[north peak]

also make thrall type actually matter

[bronze kernel]

We still need Demon Slayer 3. Arclight lore quest.

[north peak]

currently makes 0 difference what thrall you use

[hoary verge]

Oh yeah Varlamore is probably gonna involve Xeric eventually huh

[austere mulch]

thrall type matters at p1 verz

[bronze kernel]

It does matter.

[tender harness]

they lack critical information

[ember token]

theoretically the next kourend quest should be converging with the varlamore storyline

[hoary verge]

Thrall type matters for damage immunities iirc?

[ember token]

so AKD + The Final Dawn reqs

[bronze kernel]

Magic is the best general use one. Since the projectile lands 1-tick faster. The rest are used depending on immunities

[austere mulch]

p1 verz doesnt have immunities but has a unique combat type mechanic where melee thrall ends up being ~20% better than mage or range

doesnt rly matter outside of speedruns but still

[bronze kernel]

GG you need to use the melee thrall for P2 and P4

[hoary verge]

I have a feeling Kourend/Varlamore stuff will eventually meet up with the high-concept Guthix stuff

[bronze kernel]

Since he's immune to the mage/range one

[bronze kernel]

Inb4 Sliske hijinks

[hoary verge]

Like the Old Ones were into some shit and the Tasakaal referenced the highest of high end stuff

You know
By quests, Kourend, Varlamore, and Tirannwn are only recently opening up to the wider world again

...and all their Sailing tasks are mostly trading with each other

Before we came in and unlocked them recently did they all just have a lil club together with no one else

[restive storm]

man i cant believe singles+ ruined twitch streams for me too, where i used to like watching people being entertaining and stuff

now i just listen to them screech about how many brews some guy brought

its actually so lame

[floral blaze]

Also If they're not at 304 altar, the content is just farming goldfarmers because its that dead cant find fights too

[restive storm]

yeah, and 304 the content is the exact people screaming that someone dared to bring more than their allowed # of brews

like omg its insufferable at this point

legit ruined every pking stream there is

[floral blaze]

Wish we could get that 2016 Ice Poseidon energy back in this game

Impossible now though

[restive storm]

when every1 started saying "oh yea AustinShow is playing in dmm too" instead of knowing the legend rajj it just sealed it

nobody knows pvp whatsoever anymore

really man did you know he once interviewed the botez sisters? like sure man yea hes never done anything more rs related than that

made me sick

[floral blaze]

I remember being a kid watching the Rajj speech on Youtube for the first time. That was something else

[restive storm]

i watched it earlier today after the disrespect

still held up

would watch again

is it a little much? sure but is it better than everything the games seen in 10 years? for sure

[floral blaze]

I miss the pre eoc era so much, the best memories I had was from that time

[floral blaze]

The playerbase is so much different these days, low T vibes

[restive storm]

yea idk, people having fun together is usually now seen as a bad thing in osrs, which i dont really get

[floral blaze]

Consequence of too much ***nman pandering

[hoary verge]

Mothman pandering?

[vivid ruin]

Bronzemans are the worst

[hoary verge]

What in Zamorak's forgotten basement full of car parts is a Bronzeman

[sharp cave]

a self imposed ruleset by people who only buy items off the ge/trade with other players if they have the clog/got the item themselves first

[hoary verge]

Ahh

I think I saw something similar but they're only allowed to buy something on the GE if they've gotten it at least once from PKing first

Both sound kinda fun tbh though knowing this game people can get a bit obnoxious about their challenge runs

That aside

How to handle full loot PVP in an mmo where people are also doing anything else is probably one of the single hardest problems in game design. In almost 30 years no one's really found a good solution to it

[bronze kernel]

Bronzeman is just Ironman without the chores

[languid ravine]

runescape basically figured out pvp but all the ideas are so scattered across so many versions of the game xd

[hoary verge]

The thing is

PVP in a game that's not soley PVP is fundamentally unstable, cuz every part of the game affects every other part of the game. There's no way to just find one good spot and just leave it there if the rest of a game is getting updated at all.

(This is because an MMO is fundamentally unstable in all aspects tbc, the same applies to other activities)

[languid ravine]

yeah makes the balancing act not work properly if u can just get the same items in pve

[hoary verge]

There's that, and also
How do you make the ecosystems of both interact when people are coming in with fundamentally different incentives

[languid ravine]

the ways ive thought is having "safer" zones where there is pvp scaling (e.g. high lvl wont one shot every noob), so like lumbridge for example. IIRC darkscape maybe did something like this but i cant recall the mechanics, mightve just been the separate GE economies

and 2nd way which would be alot different is the world is safe as normal but then every hour or so you have a Purge start which turns on the pvp everywhere, and boosted drops etc

i think the lvl bracket worlds are kinda pointless, i saw ppl even complaining it just enables more bullying cos the pures dont have to fear mains and dont have to worry about gaining exp in pvp either

but in theory u could make a low lvl high health or defence pure thats unkillable i guess lol

[hoary verge]

The exact question of PVP vs PVE and how to have them in the same MMO is legit a topic so complex that people have written their PhD theses on it

[inner pelican]

all for the end result of people moaning about playerbases 'becoming low-T' and other such brilliance

[languid ravine]

even the fully pvp ones suffer from alot of the same issues, noobs being filtered out cos they get rolled by veterans due to there being too much gear/level gap and also lack of guides how to pvp being freely available. hell even lack of how to setup ur addons/plugins is a huge issues for getting new players involved

when doing pvp requires u to be handheld by other players to teach, its not the fastest way to get ppl involved

tho obv u should have to group up to a degree its a mmo after all

[languid ravine]

they arent entirely wrong, alot of ppl project issues that arent real. tho pvp players are also guilty of that

like the prey vs predator thing, the game literally lets u anti-pk and/or tank+escape other players. u dont simply die unless ur not trying at all

stuff like unskulled having 3-4 items saved for free is already quite forgiving

[inner pelican]

yeah i find pvp an interesting topic, there just isn't much out there to easily learn about it

conflict of interest with the people actually doing it

[icy relic]

There's a certain irony to crying nonstop while calling others 'low T' because their preferred activity is dying and just not that fun for most players

[inner pelican]

it's cat and mouse and boy, do gamers not like to play mouse

[languid ravine]

the only pvp i think seems really underdeveloped is multi pking, seems to boil down way too much with just barrage spam

[hoary verge]

Some people get into a game just for the PVP. Some people get into the PVP after they've done everything/grown bored with PVE and want to test themselves/spend their phat stacks of cash on something. Some people get into PVP to do a little buccaneering (making money)

On the player side
Runescape has been going for a ridiculously long time in terms of MMOs, and people have had literal generations to refine the skills and tech of PVP

The knowledge people had in 2007 just would not cut it today vs how much of what people know about how the game and counterplay works today

Even hypothetically booting up an older version

[languid ravine]

pvp is generally the best endgame loop cos its just player made content

doesnt have to change much if it just works ppl will keep playing it day in day out

unless something really broken is found and needs patching

[icy relic]

The people who find that to be true are a smaller and smaller crowd

[languid ravine]

not really

[hoary verge]

And like
Even in a game that is not updated
People who play it competing with one another can still discover new tech that beats or changes how people used to know to play the game

This is seen a lot in the ancient fighting games

[languid ravine]

mmos in general have an older playerbase, cos there hasnt been alot of new mmos

[hoary verge]

MMOs have a high turnover rate

There haven't been a lot of new ones that have lived longer than 3-4 years
But there are a LOT of dead ones

[languid ravine]

some mmo youtuber showed his stats he has like 99% aged 30+

for viewers

[hard axle]

and because the younger gen are infested at a young age from mobile gacha and instant gratification mechanics

[languid ravine]

gen z had fortnite as their big pvp game, besides that alot of roblox and mobile slop yeah sadly

[hard axle]

even folks in the late 20s witnessed the epitome of gaming when gaming was made with gameplay in mind

[languid ravine]

but even fortnite launch is almost a decade ago now xd

[icy relic]

even WoW was a huge betrayal for me, I'm a AoE2/WC3 oldhead

[hoary verge]

People used to call RS slop back in the day
Tho the parents of that generation didn't really play videogames at all much

[icy relic]

and hotseat HoMM3 with the homies

[hard axle]

a fair share of good games are dead because they refused to monetize

[prime vault]

There's more strategy to it than that

[languid ravine]

yeah aoe2/wc/sc are still the big rts games

[icy relic]

WC3 was like the last "perfect" game for me

[chrome lantern]

There is arclight lore though

[languid ravine]

just not a big fan of giving numbers too much of an advantage

im not sure u could really have both singles and multi have the same ruleset if u wanted to make both as good as they can be

[icy relic]

I dunno if RBGs would help OSRS

[tacit wharf]

u dont need rules in multi to change

[icy relic]

I always enjoyed warring

but people want pking and asymmetric fights

[tacit wharf]

warring was fun as hell

the drama/raggers/out of game tatic's, not so much

[icy relic]

RBGs would put some order to that plus you could also hide names

[languid ravine]

for me i prefer pking and assymetric, alot more organic and chaotic

[prime vault]

You can beat higher opt clans with quality

[prime vault]

Raggers aren't even a real problem in multi

[tacit wharf]

cant speak now, but they were as i left

[prime vault]

Clear the raggers and dip

Simple as

[tacit wharf]

wasnt quite that simple from 15-17

[prime vault]

You could still do that then too

[languid ravine]

never took multi seriously i would just dragon spear spam on ppl for lols

but then again didnt really join a clan which i presume u need to

for actual fights

[prime vault]

Pretty much

Small man trips with the boys are pretty fun tho

[icy relic]

group content in general should be pushed more no matter how much people gripe about it

[fierce otter]

Yah

[icy relic]

big reason RS3 community turned into a bunch of credit-card swiping bankstanders is them separating final boss from comp cape over maxers whining about having to do Vorago and other group bosses

[languid ravine]

yeah, trying to make stuff 'solo friendly' can be really toxic/unhealthy

[icy relic]

and I believe this to be true both for pvp and pvm

[languid ravine]

espec in pvp games, seen ppl try to make it so solos dont have to face groups in matches. actually just leads to the group matches becoming even more sweaty, and the solo matches are just even more disorganised because there is no direction/leadership at all just solos going off doing their own thing.

[tacit wharf]

its striking that balance between both solo and team content

[icy relic]

we've already seen how much trying to force "fairer" fights in wildy/singles+ has just made things less organic and fun

[languid ravine]

the pj timer just lets oda walk around in max

running into multi to escape is neat, but worldhopping ontop of fights is kinda hella OP

[icy relic]

oda doesn't even need to walk around

[tacit wharf]

it makes singles just too safe

[prime vault]

Most fun I've ever had was pk/mace trips

[icy relic]

just has people lining up to take his odds

[languid ravine]

he got chanced by a halberd anti-pker at like 1 or 2% chance recently, cos he stepped out diagonally and didnt know they had it

[hoary verge]

Like you've got a maxed acc with good gear, a fully equipped PoH. What else are you gonna do with your mils but spend them to supply a clan for raids/group bosses or PVP fights

[languid ravine]

but generally seems to just not die

or even be chanced

[icy relic]

yeh this is what got me super into clanning/warring back in college

but now there's stuff like leagues/alting to keep my interest

[languid ravine]

2 monitors 8 accs felt optimal when i was altscaping

threw in the towel when a couple of them got hit with macro ban xd

probably didnt help to name them all the same

and wear the exact same armor

[hoary verge]

Leagues/etc provide what a lot of survivalcrafty games (the other genre that tends to have full loot PVP, in addition to PVE) do:

A periodic reset

[languid ravine]

yeah its actually huge

[stray oasis]

So how's the community Bingo going to work do we think? It's for clans. I assume it's not fresh start every time you start a game but rather, just goals anyone could accomplish. But then again if those can be done with the GE, maybe it does lock your player in some way when participating. If it didn't: leveling, and using certain items couldn't be tasks
Guess we'll know before it's released ofc. Just thinking logistics

[bronze kernel]

Market manipulation?

[stray oasis]

Buy all empty vials and sell back 1gp higher

[languid ravine]

doubling money except its legit

[hoary verge]

What are you going to spend the profit you make with market manipulation on tho
If it's just more money you're gonna get bored at some point

[languid ravine]

papa johns

[hoary verge]

Prayer pots, got it

[hoary verge]

Is it not just Gridmaster again?

[stray oasis]

It can be made at any time I believe. I don't think it's going to be a one time thing