game-update

[restive storm]

none of that is necessary tho

[quasi glade]

Ok you don't need to go there though lol

[winged mantle]

Disagree

[quasi glade]

You feel forced

But you dont have to go there

lol

[meager flame]

like just stop and think about how its really designed lol

[brisk hill]

Why is it absurd? A vw isn’t necessary

[tough nacelle]

But if the incentive is, we just get to fight in a free-for-all environment

[meager flame]

you need basically nothing to go begin looting really good drops

and the only danger is that someone might attack you

[scarlet dawn]

by healthier they mean they can pvm in peace now

[ember grove]

revs did only get added because mod jed wanted to give rot a ton of gold, but they exist and we can't exactly go back easily

[meager flame]

you risk nothing

[tough nacelle]

Then sure pj timers can be removed from the wildy exclusively

[meager flame]

but gain tons

shit like that should never have existed

[restive storm]

they dont have to go, they choose to, because they dont like the gamemode they chose

[limber creek]

The answer is everybody.
White dots to red dots. This is not a question.

This is only a question in a situation where i have multiple target options.
I login to a world and see a skulled pker, i see a pvmer, and i see a zebra.

Well the zebra has no loot so ill probably not pick it.
The pvmer probably risks less than the skulled pker i see.
So ill probably attack the skulled pker.

Your question means absolutely nothing to the pking ecosystem and this is why so many people are off base.
You create these magical scenarios oh who are you going to fight haha.
My brother. I am a pker. I kill players. Thats as far as it goes.

[winged mantle]

You know if you have played an iron

[floral blaze]

Funnily enough, there were no bots during multi revs but there is an abundance now in the singles caves.

[brisk hill]

Well said

[quasi glade]

Ok but you opted into playing an iron

[limber creek]

We already knew you were an iron.

[winged mantle]

There's always been bots

[quasi glade]

Not to have the game developed arounf you

what

[floral blaze]

Rev caves is bot infested garbage now

[restive storm]

this, i dont really feel bad that you chose the game mode

[meager flame]

yeah just a country trying to eat even if we believe there weren't any bots lol

[quasi glade]

Yup and that country is still there

just with extra bots

[floral blaze]

No there weren't. Nobody was running bots in multi revs

[brisk hill]

L0l they rly are

Easier to escape on a lvl 55 with craws

[quasi glade]

But its more healither now that i dont die lol

[brisk hill]

Tick perfect etc

[quasi glade]

It's my safe space

[restive storm]

honestly ive found theres quite a large egyptian crowd there now too

[meager flame]

but really that shit was just bad game design

there should be good reasons for people that want to pvp to go into the wild

[winged mantle]

They have always been running bots everwhere they can

[tough nacelle]

No, I think it is relevant because you want players to enter the wilderness for you to be able to fight them but in order to have people enter the wilderness they need to enter with some sort of incentive. The problem is if you make the GP incentive to high, it leads to botting and abuse, and if you make the GP incentive too low, no one engages with the content. So you end up with this weird situation where people don’t want to enter the wilderness, and then the people who are PVPing have no one to fight. So I think at the fundamental level we have to agree on who should you be fighting in the wilderness? Should it be predator versus prey or should it be PVP versus PVP?

[quasi glade]

It was good for the wilderness though we can agree

Instead of w.e we got now

[meager flame]

loot pinata players that will never pvp and bis bot content though shouldn't be the answer

[chrome lantern]

I was just reading the chat from 6 or so hours ago. It’s wild to me that anyone can argue their entering argument that PvP area content should compete with the best moneymakers in the game. I would say this only makes sense if it competes with the highest difficulty and requirement content in the game, which I doubt PKers or PvMers want. It’s also not feasible to make something that competes for best money in the game without making it apply outside PvP or being an absurd method of inflation, since otherwise the value will be low if it only applies to PvP/benefits PvP. This is the same reason they tried making VW, and look at where that ended up, botted to oblivion, with nearly no requirements.

[limber creek]

Oh no total worlds had clan protection. Okay and? Did you ever try hopping any of the other 200 something worlds that were availible? Or did you cherrypick to start an arguement because you couldn't speak on the pvp ecosystem because you've never been above the bottom rung in the food chain.

Did you ever run over a clans total world protection and take all their cash?

[restive storm]

no thgey did not

[quasi glade]

Wasnt our choice btw

[zenith pike]

I got one, you really don’t

[floral blaze]

Not in multi revs, it wasn't feasible for bot farms

[chrome lantern]

What wasn’t

[meager flame]

tbf pvp is the best money in the game if you're good at pvp

[restive storm]

yea multi revs wasnt really that botted

in comparison to now

[meager flame]

idk why they felt like they had to include bots though with free content for them

[quasi glade]

We said many things about WBR that shouldnt be there

There shouldnt have been a single variants

There should have been a diary to entry

[chrome lantern]

I agree

[tough nacelle]

So what happens if you remove all of the PVM content from the wilderness?

[quasi glade]

We said this in the pvp discord and it was ignored

[ember grove]

agreed, the singles variants are a mistake

[brisk hill]

Wildy die

[quasi glade]

Not our fault, Jagex's fault

There's always been pvm content in the wilderness

[chrome lantern]

I think singles wildy bosses, vw at large, wildy agi, and zombie pirates are some of the worst wilderness changes they’ve made tbh

[meager flame]

well to start with had we gone in this direction you would have 100% better relations with players that don't want to pvp

[limber creek]

we dont have to deal with people asking questions like these anymore.

[meager flame]

and those polls

they'd probably pass a lot more

[brisk hill]

No point to hunt wild I’ll go Bh gg

[quasi glade]

It's just been the past 45 updates have all been bad and not what pvpers wanted and what the pvmers wanted

lol

[tough nacelle]

But I think we do because then we get into this whole idea of why players are entering the wilderness

[meager flame]

thats the thing

[tough nacelle]

And right now this current model isn’t fun for either party

[limber creek]

Pvmers want their redditor tier safe space to get the best gp in the game with no risk at all to ever have incentive of entering the wilderness apparentaly.

[restive storm]

it just continuously gets worse as they listen to pvmers more and more

[meager flame]

jagex should have been trying to answer the question of what makes pvp fun for people in the wilderness the whole time

[quasi glade]

Pvmers are getting more wilderness updates than pvpers

[meager flame]

instead of how do i convince people who dont pvp to come die out here

[brisk hill]

True l0l

[quasi glade]

Im so confused

[tough nacelle]

So I think we have to kind of establish what people want from this and right now the PVM players wants don’t align with what the PVP players want

[chrome lantern]

I don’t think this is true either but I do think the changes they’ve made have just made everyone but gold/bot farms upset

[meager flame]

they've been nonstop fucking up from the start with the wild

its actually insane

[quasi glade]

Do you think we even asked for a rework of the wilderness updates

We didnt

[limber creek]

Okay stella what do you want

[chrome lantern]

I don’t think cloggers or ironmen like the current wildy bosses either

[quasi glade]

They just decided yup lets do that

[limber creek]

Tell me more since youre a established wilderness pvmer.

[brisk hill]

They never will because I can kill them there

[chrome lantern]

I did, I enjoyed getting my vw but most don’t

[frail bough]

I don't really think there is any logic in combining pvm and pvp at all tbh

[meager flame]

like lol its just silly they keep doing the same things that don't and never did work

[tough nacelle]

I don’t think PVM content should exist in the wilderness, and the wildy should be a chaotic PvP area

[brisk hill]

Other than the fact that it worked really well in multi revs

[limber creek]

Then neither of you understand a food chain.

[tough nacelle]

The problem is, how do you reward it without abuse

[quasi glade]

Wilderness is apart of the game, it's always has had pvm content

lol

[tough nacelle]

I don’t enjoy the food chain mechanic

[quasi glade]

Ok so what

[restive storm]

should we take all the rewwards out of HMT and see if people wanna go there to show off skill?

[quasi glade]

It's the wilderness

[meager flame]

thats the thing

[brisk hill]

That’s life l0l

[limber creek]

LOL

[meager flame]

you're rewarded by winning

[quasi glade]

Not everybody is meant to enjoy it

[brisk hill]

That’s not just the w wildy

[limber creek]

we know you don't

[tough nacelle]

This is what I’m saying I think it’s a really difficult situation

[quasi glade]

You dont get rewarded by being a loser

[restive storm]

it really isnt

[quasi glade]

Some thrive some lose

Thats the wilderness

Not some ironman safe haven

[chrome lantern]

What exactly are people losing though

[tough nacelle]

You want to incentivize people to do PVP, not do PVM in a PVP zone,

[chrome lantern]

If you get anything valuable you just bank

[latent turret]

im iron man, please dont change wildy tele leave it as it is

[quasi glade]

Well im losing my braincells

[brisk hill]

Black d hide & time

[tough nacelle]

Nothing people won’t risk anything. They’ll just lose time.

[quasi glade]

Hope that helps

[restive storm]

i wanna ALLOW pvp, in a way that we dont currently

[tough nacelle]

And losing time is frustrating

[winged mantle]

What do you want yhe wilderness to be then? what does the ideal wilderness look like

[quasi glade]

Read up

[brisk hill]

2020 wilderness

[limber creek]

Multi revs pretty simple.

[brisk hill]

Simple as

[winged mantle]

Make it consise

[latent turret]

pvp is a huge part of the game, dont make 2 minute timer

[brisk hill]

Yep

2020 Wild

[limber creek]

We've said it 100 times.

[brisk hill]

Was pog

[latent turret]

its going to ruin small teams

[restive storm]

remove pj timer, lemme hit little timmy killing his bot

[brisk hill]

That’s short & sweet

[tough nacelle]

A lot of people don’t agree, it’s not a homogenous group

[latent turret]

im here to rant

[chrome lantern]

Like what sticks out to me is that even pkers don’t really care about the loot of the guy risking 50k in singles so why encourage a “food chain” built on that

[restive storm]

so i dont have to hop 5,000 hours to find someone

[tough nacelle]

No, I don’t think she’s asking for the specific changes. I think she’s asking. What should the wilderness be on a broader scale

[winged mantle]

So 1 location that's multi

[limber creek]

Ill kill the dude risking 50k too

White dot to red dot yall dont comprehend.

[brisk hill]

Because I’m not there for THE PVMER LOOT. I’m there for the OTHER PVP TIM who WANTS pvmer loot

[zinc galleon]

competitive fantasy roleplaying sandbox

[minor whale]

People want to go into the Wildy (as pvmers) because it's low requirement decent gp
Pkers want those people in there so they have easy prey (for gp and fun)
Other pkers want those pkers to go into there so they have easy prey (since pvm killers are usually worse pkers)
And so on

But then how can people say "just don't go in the Wildy then lol" when the whole ecosystem relies on the pvmers going there by being persuaded to by the drops.

I don't really understand that argument tbh, never really have

[latent turret]

crazy to change how the teleports work WITHOUT EVEN POLLING

[restive storm]

pvmers make enough gp to even profit after deaths, noobs feast on them, i feast on those noobs

[tough nacelle]

At the end of the day you want active players that you can fight some you want to fight against you and some you want to run away

[restive storm]

before i inevitably get eaten by fl

[chrome lantern]

Wildy being low req high gp is the single most damaging thing about it

Zombie pirates alone are a good example of that

[latent turret]

i thought we were going to poll EVERYTHING how are they going to push this

[quasi glade]

Nobody asked for zombie pirates too btw

[chrome lantern]

But wildy agi and singles bosses are even more egregious

[brisk hill]

^

[limber creek]

Zombie pirates is an ass update too

[quasi glade]

We all said it was a bad idea

[brisk hill]

More examples we hate

[limber creek]

it should be in 50 wilderness

[chrome lantern]

Revs are the same vein

[minor whale]

That's not been their polling charter for literal ages

[winged mantle]

Why don't they extend the wilderness like they make designs for - full multi - lucrative gp

[quasi glade]

Single revs yeah

[chrome lantern]

I don’t really think revs are good design either

Nah multi revs are even worse

[tough nacelle]

I think the reality is is the current wilderness doesn’t serve that purpose. you need to have some sort of situation where players can enter the wilderness, engaging content that is rewarding and attempt to escape with that reward

[limber creek]

Elaborate.

[brisk hill]

Wilderness was supposed to be worth the risk. In the past couple of years it’s anything but. When multi revs was a thing it was worth going to for some because it was one of the best money makers in the game. Simply put, wilderness activities for ppl who don’t engage in pvp aren’t lucrative enough for their occasional death

[latent turret]

so if my team finishes a fight reguarless if we win or lose we have to wait 2 minutes?? WTF

[brisk hill]

You’re agreeing with me!

We are making progress!

[restive storm]

there also currently is no risk, so it cant be THAT rewarding

[chrome lantern]

It just pushes people into even less risk setups and drives people away from the content

[latent turret]

even on my iron man i skull up to fight back, why punish?

[brisk hill]

Only if you can pk which is not fair for pvm Jonny

[chrome lantern]

I did some multi revs on my main long before I made an iron and I didn’t enjoy it on either end

[restive storm]

or a bot but yea

[quasi glade]

Did you pk on multi revs?

[limber creek]

So you cant get kills and you get in worse gear to not get kills more to make no money? Idk brother you seem pretty lost on the situation.

[quasi glade]

Or did you only do 1 side (be the prey)

[brisk hill]

You see them 1 tick remove d hide & snare?

[restive storm]

been dealing w/ it for years

[limber creek]

another 0 clue andy piping....

[restive storm]

i dont even bother w/ skulled crawss anymore

[zinc galleon]

they just need to redesign the area mostly

[chrome lantern]

Why would I want to prey on people that don’t risk anything because it’s in multi

[quasi glade]

I made alot of gp pking at rev caves mult

like

[tough nacelle]

But could you put high level restrictions on content, or difficulty, and then add mechanic similar to doom where in order to claim those rewards, you need to escape the wilderness. You’d have to make the wilderness smaller, and available on less worlds, and you’d have to offer the PVM player the ability to maybe not change gear for the escape, but perhaps the ability to get food and consumables again when leaving the content

[ember grove]

in theory, you want to find a way to attract players who like the challenge and the risk and not the ones who hate it

it's not that easy to do on the pvm side, sure

but jagex has completely given up trying

and now they're reduced to incrementally making pkers weaker for the next decade whenever they try to add wildy content, because they can't think of anything else besides luring in people who don't want to be there

[limber creek]

you dont know what people are holding lmao

[quasi glade]

20b in the years it was out

Just pking in multi revs

[winged mantle]

They want chaos and control

[chrome lantern]

I do, because they bank when they get anything valuable

[latent turret]

who cares if people low risk, its the wilderness!

[tough nacelle]

Reality it needs to turn into something like escape from Tarkov

[quasi glade]

They dont

[restive storm]

yes! chaos that is what we want

[tough nacelle]

the current model is never gonna work

[restive storm]

the wildy currently has none

[quasi glade]

Wrong

[latent turret]

if u can get a big team to work together than good on you! dont kill the wildy its already dead

[limber creek]

ive pked bills in there brother and i will tell you your experience is not universal lmao.

[quasi glade]

Jagex dont have any model

It's listening to dino

and purespam

That's the current model

[latent turret]

and to push without a poll, cmon man

[brisk hill]

You’ve come now to the core issue us pkers have. Everything you’ve just said sounds great. But, we are a minority & the only updates we get REMOVE things from the wild. We can’t even have this convo with the game devs

[latent turret]

https://tenor.com/view/simpso-riot-gif-4545300067745410584

[quasi glade]

Many listen to the pvp community about the wilderness and not a streamer who's income is from osrs and a successful stream not a successful wilderness

[tough nacelle]

I think they are listening in some ways because they’re added deadman mode on the 25th with more league like mechanics try to get people who normally don’t engage with PVP to try it for the first time

[quasi glade]

Nobody wanted DMM too

[winged mantle]

Seems like too many chefs from the pvpers. Too many mixed opinions and no actual constructive ideas on what to change or how to change it that would benifit both pvp and pvm

[quasi glade]

BTW

[tough nacelle]

So I think if a lot of people start enjoying it then maybe more updates will be catered towards it

[ripe hare]

Dogwater update

[brisk hill]

No we all say the same thing lol

Multi revs was sick

[quasi glade]

It was said in the pvp discord by everybody if we could have main game update over DMM we would

[latent turret]

https://tenor.com/view/simpsons-desk-flames-riot-down-with-homework-gif-12778212689976656977

[quasi glade]

They said no

Not us

[brisk hill]

I don’t think a single pker has said no to that

[restive storm]

i mean the actual pkers dont get consulted theyre all on the same side, streamers make the decisions thats best for their income

[meager flame]

ya problem with multi revs though is that its broken

[tough nacelle]

But I think what you guys are missing is multi revs are a problem even though it was fun. They caused a lot of issues.

[latent turret]

pvp is a huge part of OSRS like it or not , dont change it just add to it

[winged mantle]

Perhaps multi revs was removed for more than one reason

[quasi glade]

https://x.com/ianspam/status/1407057835695947776

Ian / PureSpam (@ianspam)

Got invited alongside creators to hear some of the contents within the Wildy Blog and survey results revealed later this week. I am very pleased. @JagexAyiza @OldSchoolRS <3

For the first time in forever there are big strides towards a positive clear sense of direction, excited!

X · Jun 21, 2021, 7:28 PM

[meager flame]

so even if people had fun its bad for the rest of the game

thats why it got yeeted

[quasi glade]

These are the people who decide whats best for the game

[winged mantle]

Just because something feels good doesn't mean it's good

[tough nacelle]

So there needs to be something that incentivizes gameplay like Multi revs but doesn’t have the same ability to be abused

[brisk hill]

It was, I do understand nuance

[chrome lantern]

sickening

[quasi glade]

Just because something feels bad doesnt mean its not good lol

Goes both ways

[restive storm]

multi revs was lit

[quasi glade]

You dont like multi revs because you were a pvmer

[winged mantle]

Elaborate

[brisk hill]

my muscles burn when wall sit for too long

[oblique mesa]

In the most recent podcasts they were talking about how they regret how multi revs was handled /shrug

[brisk hill]

Is bad but good

[tough nacelle]

No, I think this is a bad faith argument

[quasi glade]

No it isnt

[meager flame]

its not really because people are pvmers its just a fact that revs then and still are busted

[quasi glade]

It's exactly what the wilderness is

[brisk hill]

Pretty simple example

[quasi glade]

You are bottom of the food chai

[meager flame]

you risk almost nothing and print really good loot

[tough nacelle]

Most players didn’t like the revs not because they were PVM players, but because they were being abused

[latent turret]

https://tenor.com/view/simpso-riot-gif-4545300067745410584

[meager flame]

it shouldn't exist at all

[quasi glade]

Then why did the pvmers keep going back....?

[tough nacelle]

It’s the same reason people didn’t like the zulrah drop table

[quasi glade]

If it was so bad for them

[limber creek]

my friend if you ask us to educate you we will. I just don't care for the assumptions of the community at large. Its very telling of ones character.

I don't talk about UIM because i am not one nor have i played one.

[tough nacelle]

Because people say abuse, early and abuse often

[winged mantle]

Multi revs was not a healthy addition to the game so it was removed

[restive storm]

its less healthy for the game now than it was before

[quasi glade]

Vorkath bots arent a healthy addition to the game

[restive storm]

so why is it still there

[quasi glade]

Lets remove that

[chrome lantern]

Revs is inherently flawed because its objective is to pump inordinate amounts of money into the game from content where the difficulty, requirements, and risk of the content are not commensurate with the level of reward. Whether it’s multi or singles does not change this.

[meager flame]

revs is the crown jewel of jagex being stupid with the wild

[quasi glade]

Zulrah bots arent healthy addition to the game lets remove that

[winged mantle]

Then remove it completely

[tough nacelle]

I agree vorkath was not a good addition to the game

[winged mantle]

Add a new multi area

[limber creek]

Yall act like revs was 50m an hour completely safe content lmao.

[meager flame]

they have 0 good ideas they just dump rewards on something until people go because its good enough to deal with whatever it is

[winged mantle]

Start fresh

[restive storm]

what about nex then?

[quasi glade]

PNM bots arent good for the bots lets remove that

[restive storm]

thats even worse

[drifting merlin]

It being multi does change it it tho lmao

[brisk hill]

What about tob?

[restive storm]

or doom

[brisk hill]

It’s literally gatekept

[quasi glade]

Nex bots arent good for the game lets remove that

[limber creek]

What about toa bots? or tob bots?

[brisk hill]

By the top of the community

LOL

[quasi glade]

Like what are we saying

[tough nacelle]

It had no requirements and it was incredibly easy to bot and it was added by Jed for that purpose

[quasi glade]

do bots only matter

[chrome lantern]

I mean Nex was always bad content because they ported bad content from RS3

[quasi glade]

if its the wilderness

[latent turret]

https://tenor.com/view/riot-torches-riot-now-gif-5527675391421330656

[tough nacelle]

No, bots don’t only matter, but it’s something you have to consider when an update goes into the game

[limber creek]

Says you.

[drifting merlin]

love the streams btw big fan

[limber creek]

and weve saw your takes

[drifting merlin]

ur a good guy

[quasi glade]

ok but name 1 content that was fundamentally changed like multi revs

[latent turret]

https://tenor.com/view/tiger-tiger-woods-big-dog-salutation-what-up-gif-2478767235926945002

[quasi glade]

Single revs is still being botted

btw

[meager flame]

i mean its not even a take its just a fact

[quasi glade]

even more now

And jeds gone

[meager flame]

revs are no risk all reward no requirements print gp content

[quasi glade]

so who made that choice?

[brisk hill]

L0pl

[limber creek]

Single revs botted almost as much as wilderness slayer cave lol.

[brisk hill]

l000l

[meager flame]

its like tying a steak around someone's neck so the dog will interact with them

[winged mantle]

Nex should have a higher entry requirement

[drifting merlin]

no risk no reward is wild

[quasi glade]

Is there another corrupt jmod working for RoT making bot farms?

[limber creek]

But sure lets not add a 1t tele delay

[tough nacelle]

And rev caves are still bad

[chrome lantern]

Bots at singles revs isn’t an argument to make it multi, it’s an argument to fundamentally change or remove revs entirely

[quasi glade]

Is manked working for rot when he made zombie pirates?

[limber creek]

But bots at tob are cool?

[restive storm]

we arent seriously thinking high reqs are stopping bots are we?

[brisk hill]

Fundamentally change back to multi

[drifting merlin]

yes lets gatekeep pvming

[brisk hill]

Omfg we are speaking the same language you & I

[tough nacelle]

I think there needs to be other content for the wilderness, but just to say we want multi rev caves isn’t a good argument either

[quasi glade]

Did whoever developed wbr work for RoT so they can make bot farms and the single variants

[floral blaze]

It wasn't botted though?

[chrome lantern]

Fundamentally change meaning something along the lines of high requirements and gear and mechanics

[frail bough]

Silence

[winged mantle]

Can you actually be reasonable

[quasi glade]

Did a jmod work for jagex for rogues chest bot farm?

Like what

[drifting merlin]

no

[brisk hill]

& put in multi excellent see you there my guy

[frail bough]

Ok

[brisk hill]

I’m down as heck

[meager flame]

we unironically ask for pvm gatekeeping all the time

[quasi glade]

Did a jmod work for jagex for rogues chest bot farm?
Did whoever developed wbr work for RoT so they can make bot farms and the single variants
Is manked working for rot when he made zombie pirates?

Please

[meager flame]

things like zulrah

[quasi glade]

Answer

[floral blaze]

Rev caves only became bot infested after it was turned singles, it never was feasible to bot when it was multi due to the activity...

[winged mantle]

Either they takle bots or ramp up the reqs

[chrome lantern]

The moment you require a pker to have high stats they will riot :p

[meager flame]

we begged for years for them to put requirements on it so people couldn't just throw bots at it

[tough nacelle]

And nobody is saying it’s good content

[winged mantle]

The botting issue is long overdue

[drifting merlin]

Tackle bots is obviously the better solution of the two

[quasi glade]

If anything with your logic jagex still has a corrupt jmod working for RoT

[limber creek]

notice all the pvm andies say no to rev caves but all the pvp jeffs say yes to multi revs

[drifting merlin]

LEts be real

[limber creek]

funny and telling

[meager flame]

high reqs stop the shit out of bots

[brisk hill]

I’m not sure what you mean by that. You have to have high stats to pk

[restive storm]

reqs needed to keep out bots, would gatekeep probably 85% of the rest of the game

[latent turret]

people will just alternate accounts and rush, jagex putting a bandaid on a gunshow wound

[ember grove]

I didn't like revs because I think almost everything mod jed touched is categorically badly designed, more than anything involving multi or singles

this includes MM2 for the record that quest is dogwater

[drifting merlin]

No it doesnt lol

[limber creek]

almost like there should be reqs to speak on pvp things.

Almost like pvpers know what we'd like.

[meager flame]

you cant see 1000 bots or compromised accounts being used to bot something and be like

[chrome lantern]

I mean like 90s skilling reqs and high level quests

[latent turret]

people will just alternate accounts and rush, jagex putting a bandaid on a gunshow wound not well thought out. no poll wth??

[meager flame]

yeah thats the same as the 150k accounts that we banned at revs this year

[winged mantle]

For nex that would be a fair tradeoff. Even make it elite cas

[brisk hill]

In order to KO you need 90+ strength range or mage

[meager flame]

its orders of magnitude different

[drifting merlin]

We have corp bots, nex bots, ds2 bots, hydra bots, day 1 dt2 boss bots, why would higher requirements help

[quasi glade]

ok thats their fault

lol

not ours

[brisk hill]

I’m still confused about your point

[restive storm]

ok and corp? all raids?

[quasi glade]

nobody wanted single revs

[tough nacelle]

You’re essentially making the same argument that because ironmen would like a 1/2 drop rate for a mega, rare equivalent item. We should just add it into the game because they want it and exclude in the fact that that’s bad for the game health.

[winged mantle]

Whatever they have to do to get bots under control

[chrome lantern]

Not combat, combat is meaningless as a req because it just makes you do the content faster and better to begin with

[limber creek]

Not at all and you're so off base its honestly surprising even after your uneducated earlier opinions.

[chrome lantern]

I mean actual requirements

[restive storm]

they cant just bar the content from 90% of players in order to stop bots

[chrome lantern]

You could even say “gatekeeping”

[winged mantle]

What's your solution

[tough nacelle]

No, you’re saying we want multi revenant because it was fun

[drifting merlin]

Higher requirements for pvming doesnt stop the bots, it only slows them down for a few days at most lol. Come on now...

[tough nacelle]

But you’re excluding the fact that it was toxic for the game

[meager flame]

it does do you know how many fewer bots there are at content with big requirements compared to revs where you dont really need anything

[brisk hill]

It’s disingenuous to say that pkers will riot because of high stat requirements

[restive storm]

i dont have 1 for botting overall, thats why im not trying to solve that problem

[chrome lantern]

Way too much stuff in the game at large has way too low reqs though

[elder sail]

https://tenor.com/view/riot-gif-18090695598998664445

[chrome lantern]

Not just wildy

[meager flame]

they can create a whole farm and blast the same day they get banned for revs almost

[drifting merlin]

Youre wrong

[latent turret]

https://tenor.com/view/simpso-riot-gif-4545300067745410584

[brisk hill]

Most of us have put in more time into the game than you guys @chrome lantern

[limber creek]

Okay ill hear you out. How was it toxic for the game?

Please elaborate

[silver ice]

so teams of 3 or 4 cant teleport back to support there team.

[chrome lantern]

Why is this relevant

[tough nacelle]

Mod Jed the entire legal situation

[winged mantle]

The wildy problem is bots, bad multi and pvm. It's not just a "bring back multi revs"

[drifting merlin]

I dont think you realize how cheap maxed combat accounts are

[tough nacelle]

That’s actively ongoing right now

[elder sail]

https://tenor.com/view/peepo-peepo-riot-riot-protest-peepo-angry-gif-21768097

[restive storm]

as we JUST pointed out, the wildy problem is not just bots lmao

[meager flame]

no im not theres a term called suicide botting for a reason

[latent turret]

https://tenor.com/view/angry-mob-riot-torches-pitchforks-gif-5859895

[silver ice]

this has all to do with big clans not the small pk clans

[restive storm]

thats everywhere

[brisk hill]

Because it’s disingenuous thinking a high stat req would make pvp’ers recoil

[drifting merlin]

Doesnt mean anything

[winged mantle]

You miss the point

[chrome lantern]

Yeah that’s why Jagex should simultaneously raise non-combat reqs and crack down on illegal activities

[limber creek]

I forgot about mod jed being in rev caves. Ill go smite him right now what world? Or do you have actual input about from a GAME standpoint and not just parroting reddit idealogy about rot lmao.

[drifting merlin]

Wont change anything

[meager flame]

like everything you've said im ngl

[chrome lantern]

And the ones with the reqs would be able to do the content, that’s fine

[meager flame]

idk why im replying lol

[drifting merlin]

Likewise

[brisk hill]

When in reality, most of us have put more time into the game than pvmers

[silver ice]

your literally just killing the fucking wilderness for no reason

letting the bots run

[drifting merlin]

Because youre wrong

brb

[tough nacelle]

It is a gameplay loop or huge amounts of GP were entering the game with very low requirements and you could have plans manipulate this in order to farm vast amount of GP, causing rampant inflation in the game, which hurts the buying power of many players

[limber creek]

even protecting them as pvmers by denying the 1t tele delay would make a huge difference.

[tough nacelle]

Having a game where you’re pumping currency into it is not ideal

[elder sail]

No wildy changes without pole!!!!!!!!

[meager flame]

nah but really hopefully jagex deletes revs and then actually tries to figure out how to make pvp content fun

[brisk hill]

That’s no problem. Pkers have to engage with the main game to pk

See DT for ancient magic

Or see MM2 for heavy balli

[silver ice]

so literally bots can come back immediately but the ones who skull can

[tough nacelle]

It filled the game with raw Alchs

[silver ice]

ant

[meager flame]

i want people fighting each other to have fun/a good game

[oblique mesa]

Agreed, which is why we should remove f2p for making botting so easily

[meager flame]

but they need to stop putting hot trash out in the wild instead of trying to do that

[restive storm]

how can we possibly put on our blinders and think this is solely a revs problem

[chrome lantern]

Those are pretty trivial reqs compared to what you think content in the wildy should reward though

[tough nacelle]

But I never said it’s solely a revenant problem, it’s a problem with how the wilderness updates keep being handled. This includes zombie Pirates the rogue’s chest.

[tough nacelle]

The reality is the content that that’s being asked for by the PVP community as described here doesn’t help fix these issues

[restive storm]

the entire game does this, if i barrage nechraels i make like 3m raw gp/h

[limber creek]

What stats did you need to make even a mil an hour there? Go ahead. 70 range make u a mil an hour on imps? Or 80? Or did you need 99 max everything to get efficient money there?
What do you need to go to callisto? Protect range/mage and a adamant crossbow?
You cant go to revs now and kick them to death for the same?

.

[winged mantle]

Think outside of personal gain for pvp. What would be healthy for the game as a whole thst would change the wilderness into the real wilderness?

[tough nacelle]

All you needed is a blow pipe and an ethereal bracelet

[tacit wharf]

just remember no f2p, no bonds, so choose wisely

[restive storm]

no pj timer so its actually WILD

[limber creek]

go get in there champ.

[brisk hill]

I agree. And I think you’d find that most pkers would agree there should be some barrier for entry to high lvl loot piñata territories

[meager flame]

well just about every time pvp isn't zero sum or very close to it the update blows up in jagex's face

so they could start there

[winged mantle]

Wym

[meager flame]

every time jagex introduces additional rewards on top of the loot dropped by the player that died

[chrome lantern]

Can we stop with the gif spam

[meager flame]

it goes horribly wrong

[brisk hill]

Stop spamming before slow mode

Actual dweebs

[tough nacelle]

So long as this excludes the PVP world it’s not a crazy take, but it has to exclude the PVP worlds,

[latent turret]

no wilderness tele update!!!

[brisk hill]

Stop gif spam

[silver ice]

so literally restrict people from teleporting to like anakarl

[elder sail]

no wildy tele update!!!

[chrome lantern]

Ok time to report to discord mods

[restive storm]

yes i def agree leave pvp worlds as is

[elder sail]

We pay we say

[restive storm]

and bh

[brisk hill]

Just time them out before slowmod pls mox

Time them out not slow mode pls mox

[tough nacelle]

But I think changing the PJ timers won’t fundamentally change the wilderness and the players desire to engage with that content

[brisk hill]

Inshallah

[restive storm]

relac O youre not helping

[winged mantle]

Take your spam to reddit

[sacred oracle]

@elder sail Let's stop spamming gifs, please

[latent turret]

wilderness already dying, if u can get a big team to work together than you win

[restive storm]

it ABSOLUTELY fundamentally changes the wildy

no more freeze log meta?

[tough nacelle]

So a hypothetical situation if we removed PJ timers You won’t have thousands of players coming into the wild wilderness.

[latent turret]

dont hurt the smaller teams

[silver ice]

wilderness already dying, if u can get a big team to work together than you win

[winged mantle]

What would removing pj timers do? I don't interact with them so would love to learn

[tough nacelle]

No, no I didn’t say it won’t fundamentally change the wild, I said it won’t suddenly increase the players that want to participate

[restive storm]

ty whatever mod timed them out instead of punishing us all btw

[brisk hill]

Fr

[tough nacelle]

I fully agree that it will change the wilderness substantially, but I don’t think it’s going to turn back into what the wilderness used to be

[dawn jackal]

i don't think anyone is asking for a wilderness revival just to un fuck what was fucked

[restive storm]

for example, rn if i see a level 69 WHALE using a harm orb killing a lvl 55 bot. I just have to say "welp i sure woulda love to have found that guy before" whereas before i'd just attack him

so essentially the pj timer removes about 85% of actual activity that COULD occur in the wildy cuz theyre already in combat

[zinc galleon]

it opens the playing field. me and my friends would be more active in other wilderness areas for example.

[silver ice]

wilderness already dying, if u can get a big team to work together than you win. dont hurt the smaller teams

[elder sail]

This is crazy work

[winged mantle]

So you can jump a fight in singles?

[restive storm]

yeah like attack a noob off thats killing a pvmer

before someone does the same to me

[narrow folio]

You shouldnt be able to jump a fight in singles

Singles is singles

[tough nacelle]

could that not just be making most of the wilderness content multi? Like why would it have to be related to the PJs and not just making it multi combat?

[restive storm]

multi and singles (pre timer) are two wildly different styles of pking

[meager flame]

i mean they should be trying to create a fun pvp experience but in jagex world fun just equates to people making gp

[restive storm]

you'd still use pretty decent gear in singles even though you could team

[tacit wharf]

non-consensual 1v1 is bad mkay

[winged mantle]

What's the nefarious application

[tough nacelle]

No, that’s fair cause you can survive clans more easily or at least there’s a chance

[restive storm]

what do you mean?

[meager flame]

like they literally cannot stop

even take lms

[zinc galleon]

yes, in that it's not the same as multi, no in that it should be more flexible

[winged mantle]

How was it abused

[meager flame]

they just had to give people gp so guess what

[winged mantle]

If they added pj timer there must have been something

[restive storm]

uhh i mean teams would have an advantage over single players? but then theyd get eaten by bigger teams

[tough nacelle]

People used to rush players after a fight was done or they would do it midway through a fight, and it was very frustrating for streamers

[restive storm]

thats why we had an eco system

[meager flame]

we're botting woooo in lms and irons are hiding in corners woooo

[brisk hill]

You know what’s fascinating? This is the same game we all play & it’s like 2 different worlds colliding lmfao

1 game

[winged mantle]

Ah

[meager flame]

they cant get out of their own way

[tough nacelle]

Teams would also be able to swap out when hitting you so someone could freeze you if you ran out into supplies so even if you were able to fight back in a one-on-one situation, you could still die because you were fighting more than one person

[winged mantle]

So no breathing timer after you kill someone

[limber creek]

Way to many updates every which a ways is another reason nothing gets done about pvp combat.
Hence to why im sticking to my 2 points.
Multi revenants for the wilderness foodchain
1t teleport delay below 30 to combat bots.
Singles is dead for now work on that next for all the gigas wearing max sets. That isn't your normal pker either.

[latent turret]

jagex putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound by changing the teleport timers, this will not fix the situation. only HARM smaller teams that try to compete

[restive storm]

nope, was the wild west

[tough nacelle]

No breathing time in general so if you were taking too long in between eating food and healing up, you could get attacked

[ember token]

most people dont know this but if you go into the wilderness and someone tries to attack you, you can just tell them that you dont consent to being attacked and they have to stop

[elder sail]

This change just hurts the little guys

[winged mantle]

Sounds lame tbh

[tough nacelle]

Or if you froze someone and stepped under them, someone could attack you

[chrome lantern]

This

[restive storm]

i mean, it had ACTIVITY that we dont have now

so many ppeople obviously liked it

[winged mantle]

Mmm

Maybe if they bring it back but still keep the timer if you got a kill

[tough nacelle]

I think where we fundamentally disagree is you think that by removing the PJ timer more people will engage with the wilderness? I think people don’t engage with the wilderness because people don’t like the current style of content that exists there and I don’t think this would necessarily fix the issues in the wilderness on a broad scale.

[silver ice]

i dont think this anything to do with updates

[restive storm]

probably would be fine, theyd have to bring back the spec trading timer too which is fine

[chrome lantern]

Having teams in singles at all is a ridiculous concept

[latent turret]

is PJ timer even mention in game update?

[zinc galleon]

yeah its not for everyone, but theres a set of us that grew up w it and love it

[latent turret]

can we focus on multi teleports?

[oblique mesa]

If only jagex had not named it singles all those years ago we wouldn't be having this issue 🙁

[winged mantle]

That's fair

[restive storm]

literally every1 here hates the multi teleports too

[tough nacelle]

I think the entire reason we are talking about the PJ timer and all of the changes that were made to make it more possible for a player to survive in the wilderness is because people didn’t like being killed when doing PVM content

[latent turret]

awesome i thought we were alone

[tough nacelle]

I think the fundamental issue is they keep putting PVM content that requires PVM gear in a PVP zone,

[restive storm]

well that, and the fact that playing the game w/ friends is infinitely more fun than playing alone

[elder sail]

Stop the slowing of wildy teleports!! We are not being represented with no vote!

[meager flame]

well its not just that

[chrome lantern]

Most people don’t have opinions on it because most people don’t pk in multi so it will never impact them.

[oblique mesa]

Nah you just too busy clowning with your gifs they been talking about that for hours

[meager flame]

singles clans actually were cancer

that shit was not fun unless you were the singles clan

[latent turret]

wilderness already dying, if u can get a big team to work together than you win. dont hurt the smaller teams! listen to us jages! where is the poll! i thought we were goign to pull all updates?

[restive storm]

when you say "clan" are we including like 2-3 man teams too? lol

[silver ice]

so what does this have to do with pj timers when this is all multi content.

[latent turret]

i just got here

[restive storm]

cuz thats like 85% of what was out there it was fun

[tough nacelle]

I fully agree, and some of my closest friends are not very strong players, and I would love to play with them more in the wilderness and another content so I think having a multi style environment is beneficial, I just don’t know if I can agree that the main issue is PJ timers

[meager flame]

i mean yeah sure its just the catch all term

having people take turns switching off trying to kill you is not fun in a single combat area

[brisk hill]

kk stop spamming you arent doing anything productive 👍

[tough nacelle]

I think we have to change how we view wilderness content, and change how we’re going to be releasing future content and current content

[restive storm]

it was definitely fun for the little noobies who were never gonna get a kill any other way

until they then got splacked by a bigger or better team

[silver ice]

go to bounty hunter world and you dont have to worry bout pj timeer

[zinc galleon]

can always just stay lvl 1 edge

[latent turret]

ok im leaving it up to u, please get my backi have to go

[meager flame]

yeah they should just suck less im gonna be real

thats a skill issue on their part lol

im not saying its perfect without it though

[chrome lantern]

If they can’t get a kill any other way then they don’t deserve the kill tbh, and they shouldn’t be prioritized over a person who is rightfully expecting to not be teamed in a singles area

[narrow folio]

Teaming in singles should not be a thing

[restive storm]

yea works over for me too, have fun fellas see yall for pvp cord another time.

[meager flame]

i do think in certain gear sets actually killing someone in singles right now

is probably too hard

[silver ice]

we aint even on topic tho

[tough nacelle]

The reason the PJ timers came into the game is because the vast majority of players found the wilderness content on fun and they felt like they had to engage with it in order to get uniques

[restive storm]

boring and just leads to the top .1% getting all the kills and nobody else bothers going out there, which is what we have now

[ember grove]

there seems to be no one on earth who likes them

at best, complete apathy

[zinc galleon]

why not?

[meager flame]

like its one thing if people agree to try to outlast or w/e but

if someone is trying to get away its kind of hard to stop them atm if they're wearing actual gear

[narrow folio]

The point of singles is fair one on one fights

[tough nacelle]

I think the focus has to be on how can content be fun for people who aren’t entering the wilderness with the intent to PK without causing so many frustrating interruptions while still maintaining risk, and providing them the opportunity to fight back

[sacred oracle]

@frosty patrol @silver ice Let's not send identical messages/copypasta in the chat, please. The chat is already moving pretty fast, so let's not make it harder to read original messages.

[dawn jackal]

the reason star mining came into the game is because the vast majority of players found mining unfun and felt like they had to engage with it to get their max cape

[limber creek]

I dont care about singles.
Multi revenants for the wilderness foodchain
1t teleport delay below 30 to combat bots.
And i bet it livens up incredibly well.

[slate arch]

i dont even like the wildy but to screw pkers like this is out of order

[dawn jackal]

why does everyone need to do and get everything

such a broken mindset

[chrome lantern]

I would expect that getting teamed in singles just discourages anyone from wanting to go out by themselves ever though tbh. It did for me, even singles content was annoying

[zinc galleon]

no thats bh and lms

[frosty patrol]

our voices must be heard

[narrow folio]

Then why did jagex add that timer?

[tough nacelle]

Well, no, it’s not about having every player engaging with the content. It’s almost every single individual who is playing an Iron Man does not enjoy entering the wilderness. Full stop.

[chrome lantern]

The reason star mining came into the game is because players feel entitled to levels they shouldn’t and they refused to try most of the 8 viable mining training methods that existed

[zinc galleon]

because theyre out of touch and one of their buddies prob got smited for +1

[dawn jackal]

then don't enter the wilderness ???

[limber creek]

so streamers could wear 1b+ sets and not worry about getting teamed on. it took away 80% of their risk.

[tough nacelle]

I think it comes down too. Can we make the wilderness fun for everybody involved

[limber creek]

Yeah multi revs does pretty much that.

[silver ice]

its the wilderness its the irons choice by going in there is a warning before entering

[tough nacelle]

Can high tense, stressful situations come out out of the wilderness for both the people who are trying to make money out of the wilderness and those who were trying to fight other players because if you don’t address this issue, no matter what you do the wilderness will still be dead

[brisk hill]

that answer is obviously no not 100% of th etime'

[chrome lantern]

I don’t see it as a negative that someone wearing high risk would have an advantage and I don’t think people should be able to team them in significantly worse gear to take them down

[dawn jackal]

the intent of the wilderness shouldn't be for everyone to have fun

that's just flawed

[tough nacelle]

But it’s not though, because the best spec weapon in the game is found in the wilderness in in order to get it you have to fight wilderness bosses, and it’s not the risk of dying. It’s the frequent interruptions where on a bad day you could enter the wilderness kill the boss once and then be attacked and this can happen 7 times in a row

[zinc galleon]

referring to the timer increase in 2021 specifically

[limber creek]

I dont care about singles.
Multi revenants for the wilderness foodchain
1t teleport delay below 30 to combat bots.

[meager flame]

the real problem is that the high end set is actually just too good

[tough nacelle]

No, but right now we’re not even trying

[meager flame]

there shouldn't be a setup in the game that makes you feel like its almost impossible to die if you eat correctly

[tough nacelle]

the only solutions that are being propose is bot content and PJ timers

You need something that is fun for everybody involved to a degree

[limber creek]

multi revs is not for bots.
The sub 30 tele delay for 1 tick is for bots. This is not hard to grasp. Please...

[obsidian venture]

♻️

[slate arch]

has jagex not learned there lesson for the last time they screwed the wilderness as much as i hate pking i know its a massive part of the game i do what i need to do in there and get out but for the people who enjoy this content thats a massive kick in the nuts

[meager flame]

one guy should be good enough to kill you in a reasonable scenario but right now its more like they kind of have to agree to the long fight that may have a conclusion

because if people actually try to escape its hard to stop it

[silver ice]

irons dont have to really risk to get it . irons have mains. most the time . dont risk what your not willing to lose these bosses can be done in monk robes

[tough nacelle]

It’s not about risk you’re not understanding

It’s about frequent interruptions

If an Iron Man loses one mill of gear, it’s not a big deal

[silver ice]

its the wilderness

[tough nacelle]

If any player period has to go back to the bank seven times in an hour because they keep being attacked and survive. It’s not fun.

[silver ice]

they know the risk

[drifting merlin]

Cant wiat for some iron chad to tell me higher skill requirements is the key to stopping bots

[chrome lantern]

It’s not even the best spec in the game tbf

[tough nacelle]

Saying it’s the wilderness is a bad argument. It’s not about risk it’s about un fun

[oblique mesa]

Brother Doom is botted like crazy right now, everything in osrs is bot content

[tough nacelle]

Okay zcb

[limber creek]

contrary to popular belief you have a 3 item advantage over pkers that you keep. Maybe try making it really good items and killing them 😄

[chrome lantern]

Claws, especially with burning claws, and zcb are almost always better

[winged mantle]

The reason rev caves can never be multi is because of the clans locking down revs and making ludicrous gp for rwt

[tough nacelle]

Just because it’s the wilderness doesn’t mean it should be un fun

[chrome lantern]

And burning claws alone are very frequently better and accessible

[limber creek]

On like 10 out of 280 worlds yes you're correct.

[silver ice]

this lets bots just keep going out too.

[drifting merlin]

So making it singles so they make even more money is a better idea ?

[tough nacelle]

Yeah, I know, but that’s not really the point of my argument

[drifting merlin]

😄

[winged mantle]

I'm happy for them to remove it and rework the wildy

[silver ice]

yall just destroying the wildy like rs3 did

[tough nacelle]

The wilderness needs a rework not just a Band-Aid fix

[winged mantle]

Rev caves was a mistake

[brisk hill]

dont remove it w/o a replacement already in mind.

[chrome lantern]

I said it before but the very base premise of revs was just as fundamentally flawed as zombie pirates, wildy agi loot, and rogues chests

[limber creek]

if you were there you might have understood but just reitterating a reddit post you read is not going to help the game at all. You're actively ruining it without even being a participant.

[tough nacelle]

You mean removing free trade because the only other option was to delete the entire game because of real world trading?

[brisk hill]

youll just gut wildy even more lol

[winged mantle]

I was there

[meager flame]

but how could they fit a rework into their once every 3 years minor wilderness addition

[tough nacelle]

not a popular option not a fun option, but at the time it was the only one they had

[limber creek]

Doubtful if you think all worlds were just rackets lmfao. You read a reddit post homie its okay.

[silver ice]

i mean rwt and bots are still a thing and prolly always will be

[winged mantle]

Fun fact I'm not on reddit 😊

[tough nacelle]

Why are you so opposed to a wilderness rework that makes it more fun for everyone involved

[silver ice]

but killing the wilderness is not the justification

[limber creek]

Good for you?

[tough nacelle]

Why is the only option multi rev caves?

[winged mantle]

Then don't assume

[limber creek]

I love the cherry picking though honey. slay.

[sacred oracle]

Not sure what sites they go to have to do with this. Let's try to keep it civil and not assume things about people.

[silver ice]

multi rev caves was a thing. why take it away

[brisk hill]

yer, the point of us being here though is that they have to consult pkers in order for it actually be successful. everything implemented since multi revs were removed has only further killed areas of the wild

[silver ice]

bot have free roam now

[limber creek]

even mods cherry picking is dope.

[restive storm]

Nothing but hot dog water updates for the last 4+ years with no end in sight

[tough nacelle]

I think both players need to be involved in this discussion and right now it’s only been pvm players which has been a problem

[minor whale]

The rampant credit card fraud being caused by bots and scammers is why that happened
Not just bots
Security is better these days but Jagex still isn't good on most cc companies radars
A lot of people have to verify they're actually the ones buying mems still because of how bad it was

[drifting merlin]

Remember, Reddit is the trigger word.

[brisk hill]

does that mean bring multi revs back? not rly, it just means we need something simliar with an eco system

[drifting merlin]

Do not use

[zinc galleon]

my thoughts: it historically was fun and active, and gl passing polls on new wildy content (that jagex probably would make poorly)

[brisk hill]

yes, but rn 1 is being completely excluded MINUS a handful of streamers

[silver ice]

so them not polling it is crazy

[zenith pike]

You can make systems around removing removing frequent interruptions as well, it’ll just take some ingenuity whilst not making it ass for the opposing party

[silver ice]

just implementing it

[limber creek]

Yeah dont worry i will only talk about runescape from now on appologies. no more nono words.

[brisk hill]

pvmer opionion is heard loud and clear

[tough nacelle]

I think new wilderness content that fundamentally changes how it operates while keeping the risk and the PVP aspect as a priority would be more likely to make it into the game over revenant caves

[drifting merlin]

How about a dev team that actually cares about wilderness updates, can we all agree on that?

[brisk hill]

pker not so much

[tough nacelle]

I fully agree with that

[tough nacelle]

I don’t even think it is anymore

A lot of the PVM content that they’ve released has such low requirements to cater to the new influx of players that a lot of the older PVM crowd isn’t thrilled either

[winged mantle]

I don't think pvmers want more reasons to go to the wilderness

[brisk hill]

w/ the tele changes? ye idk if the normal player cares/cared

[limber creek]

Lets not make assumptions for others.

[winged mantle]

If you're going to be disingenuous please don't respond to me

[obsidian venture]

Ngl that’s quite the common trend and leans to the majority

[drifting merlin]

I mean you shouldnt assume for everyone @winged mantle

[obsidian venture]

There’s just way more people that dislike the wildy than like it

[tender harness]

this channel has been popping off all day with the same 3 pvpers 😭

[meager flame]

yeah lets not assume

how about we have a vote in game

[limber creek]

Dont bring energy and then backpedal on the same my friend. Stay blessed ❤️

[meager flame]

to see who wants reasons to go to the wild

that should clear things up

[brisk hill]

wildy slayer is how i trained slayer on my iron lol

[limber creek]

Quite the common thing!

[winged mantle]

Staying my opinion

[obsidian venture]

They’d have to do a full rework to make it palatable to the majority unfortunately

[brisk hill]

its wrong just fyi lol

[sacred oracle]

We do have the technology to do it now, with the new poll features. I'll bet we could get a pretty comprehensive wilderness opinion.

I wonder if it's being planned for some point soonish.

[drifting merlin]

Doubtful

[minor whale]

Yeah not controversial
While it's part of the game and should get attention, unfortunately the majority of players don't enjoy it and any polling that just includes "do you go into the wilderness" will still probably result in failed polls that benefit pvpers

[limber creek]

Wonder how many pollers will have actually ever engaged in pvp content aside from being the prey.

[meager flame]

yeah they could even though i think it wouldn't say what anyone who wants to go to the wild wants it to say

so i dont really think we should want that to happen

[tough nacelle]

Not so much a poll but more so a questionnaire

[zenith pike]

A full rework is possible, you can drastically increase the quality of life for almost everyone involved

[obsidian venture]

Yeah

[meager flame]

it would just give jagex more ammo to just forget the wild exists

[drifting merlin]

I would assume we wont get any pvp updates until after summer @sacred oracle

[tough nacelle]

But that can be enough to say why they dislike it

And have data

[drifting merlin]

If anything

Not counting DMM

[obsidian venture]

I try to get folks to use the wildy as there’s good training methods and such, but a lot don’t want too

[limber creek]

You think they listen is a big part of the pvpers problem. We know full well they do not my friend. Sadly.

[meager flame]

ya there are a lot of gamers out there

[tender harness]

I want to like wilderness content. would be cool to actually enjoy the wildy.

but like post diary, its just like I cant be asked to deal with certain people in wild. not worth the time.

[restive storm]

Wildy boss rework rework gonna be brazy, maybe they’ll amp up the escape cave damage

[meager flame]

that wont do pvp no matter how good it is

[chrome lantern]

Most of the PvM updates in recent history have had significant flaws to being outright awful. Delve has rewards at way too low levels, oathplate replaces torva in most cases while being way easier to get, oathplate shards also shouldn’t be tradeable. TDs suck for many reasons. Colo punishment system is half-baked and most people hate it, Tonalztics too rare and nich and sunfire splinter system sucks (w1 farming), Hueycoatl accomplished none of its design goals on release with content/reward placement/balance, etc. etc. Even DT2 was marred with orbs and hated drop tables/mechanics.

[meager flame]

like they just mentally cant deal with it

[chrome lantern]

PvM opinions aren’t clear

Deviated from wildy a lot

[drifting merlin]

I mean they arent going to buff the loot like they promised 10x

:p

[chrome lantern]

But I don’t think Jagex knows what PvMers want either

[kind surge]

the alternative is having hundreds of new people in here instead, it's so much neater to have only a few good representatives saying their thoughts

[chrome lantern]

And that’s not limited to wildy pvm

[obsidian venture]

Yeah it’s kinda cooked for both

Just can’t win

Well either way there’s the summit

[restive storm]

They do seem unbelievably lost these days even with all their new polling tech

[obsidian venture]

They’re tryna hit all these niches but they always end up having a glaring issue

Really tragic

[drifting merlin]

I think Wilderness Slayer updates was a good direction for pvming in the wilderness, I think if they use that concept, not necessarily slayer itself, but a similar concept and 10x it, it would be cool af.

[chrome lantern]

To be fair with the new polling system we’ve had only a couple of level-limited questions for a poll that hasn’t ended yet

[obsidian venture]

Qol did go up but besides that idk

[chrome lantern]

They haven’t really exercised it yet

[tender harness]

Colo punishment system is half-baked and most people hate it
the death stuff what ever but like. Jagex cant design invos at all.
early colo invos showed this lol. I like colo I need to do more but the invo shit sucks the fun out of it. never mind the punishment for learning and dying to wave 6 because oops stacked out

[obsidian venture]

It was yes

[limber creek]

sorry im just fed up with the state of pvp and unpolled changes which do nothing but negatively affect the majority of the community i choose to engage with lol.
I pvm to done all that fun stuff. But my opinions and know how are mainly pvp.

[restive storm]

Pkers just the one niche they haven’t gotten to yet

[obsidian venture]

I do all content so I feel you

[chrome lantern]

Yeah I meant penalties/invocs not punishment

[drifting merlin]

Also the wilderness game jam from the past few years that had wilderness content all had good ideas that were not even voted on etc

[winged mantle]

I'm still waiting for the wildy extension

[drifting merlin]

Like the carrier minigame

[kind surge]

no you have a right to say your word if an update messes with what you do in the game, we're supposed to have our voices heard and we are the ones paying

[drifting merlin]

courier*

[kind surge]

even if pkers are the minority

[restive storm]

Pls don’t expand, it’s already too dead as is

[zinc galleon]

i hope they just rework what's inside it. not expand

[brisk hill]

"an update" doesnt even begin to cover it but ty for relating

[winged mantle]

They had so many cool ideas in that visual

[zinc galleon]

black knights castle for example

[limber creek]

We do not need an extension or expansion. Those saying we do are the ones who clearly has no idea of the state of things.

[minor whale]

Yeah like any time you do practically any Wildy content you'll be there for 2-3 minutes if no scout without having to leave to get more stuff or you log out to escape and now your world is taken lmao

[kind surge]

well yeah that's definitely a misnomer but you know what I meant lol

[minor whale]

It's just not an enjoyable experience

[slate arch]

we pay we say dont change the wilderness just make it better

[chrome lantern]

Don’t change it, just change it (yes I am pointing out semantics :p)

[sacred oracle]

It's telling to me that the most fun I have in wilderness is when it's so empty that I don't get interrupted by pvpers. When I was grinding the wildy pets, the most fun was when I could just do the boss content without being bothered.

[tender harness]

its fine to speak up if people don't like something
where it draws the line is the behaviour of certain people earlier.
I don't pvp I dont have a dog in the pvp scene so my takes are worth shit. and I find the barrier to high to even get into to begin with.
I want to like wildy, I want to enjoy more of it but to me I just dont like the current iteration of it.
like the last time I was in wildy was to finish elite diary and farm some ecu keys lol. I barely touch wildy anymore outside of clues

[drifting merlin]

We need to use DMM as a beta for new wilderness content imo. If you want a wilderness rework then you would need to test it and I dont see people hopping into a beta world to test new wilderness content (maybe they would?)

[brisk hill]

not a crituqe on you just a further emphasis 👍

[drifting merlin]

Add it to DMM, let people try it out, if people like it, add it to main game.

[sacred oracle]

The things I like just seem incompatible with what the wilderness is, but because I want stuff that's there, I choose to go there anyway and just grit my teeth through it.

[chrome lantern]

Even if they would it doesn’t make sense without actual contexts of risk and loot

[sacred oracle]

Not really sure what a solution is.

[limber creek]

The wilderness has many types of people.

Sadly victim are the most common and outspoken.

[drifting merlin]

But if you dont you literally have no way to beta test it properly

[tender harness]

now thats just not true lol

[chrome lantern]

I agree, I do think the DMM would probably be better than a normal beta is what I meant

[drifting merlin]

I just dont see people using beta worlds to do new potential pvp content

[obsidian venture]

Do yall think relics helped or made dmm worse?

[brisk hill]

dont care fix main game

👍

[meager flame]

i think it depends on what relic and when

sometimes they're cool and sometimes they sucked

[drifting merlin]

Im saying use dmm as testing ground for main game ideas

[tender harness]

made it worse
but made doing swaps atleast more fun lol

[obsidian venture]

If they could use dmm to test stuff, that could be ideal

[brisk hill]

that would be fun to see

[kind surge]

that is fair and I did see the dm posted earlier, but imo both sides weren't being respectful to each other at the time

just gotta realise that pkers are frustrated atm with the (lack of good) updates they're doing to the wilderness, so just try to understand where they're coming from

[brisk hill]

overloads coming soon...

[drifting merlin]

that wya you have room for trial and error

[brisk hill]

[winged mantle]

Dmm with a reworked wildy

[obsidian venture]

It’s like using leagues to test a weapon or effect

[brisk hill]

dmm is pvp all over

why make wildy special

[minor whale]

Oh hey did you get a DM too lmao

[brisk hill]

for testing

[obsidian venture]

If they’re smart they’d use the data for it

[winged mantle]

To test

[brisk hill]

would be heckin confusing is all

[tender harness]

yes I just ignored it lol

[obsidian venture]

[kind surge]

the truth is that most people do not engage in pking, so most of us don't really have a good word on how to improve it without messing with pking further

[obsidian venture]

Leak

[limber creek]

Please dont test main game pvp reworks in deadman.
The games are to completely different and those suggesting it probably don't have a clue about pking in the first place.

[tender harness]

it was a ToS kinda DM. someone was a bit

[chrome lantern]

Have we even gotten any of those in the main game though

[drifting merlin]

For example: Elden Ring Nightreign isnt the same as a regular Soulslike series game. But Fromsoft needs room to test new mechanics and ideas without ruining the mainline games, so you get games like Duskbloods, Nightreign etc before a new mainline game comes out.

SO you use DMM as a testing ground that doesnt hurt your reputation in the main game for main game pvp

[obsidian venture]

I think you can to some degree

Doesn’t have to be a full no and it’s better than nothing

[drifting merlin]

THats how I see it but just an idea

[obsidian venture]

If you really care for stuff to change, you’d want shit tested in real time

[minor whale]

Got told to 🪢 🪑 and then "I can get racist in dms if you want" which didn't even really make sense lmao

Guessing Mana's was similar

[obsidian venture]

Saying you don’t want this and just want change to be done at the snap of a finger is ie

They use players to test shit anyway

Might as well make it work for you

[obsidian venture]

Sounds like a non human

[limber creek]

Guess its just pvmer chat now good luck yall
Multi revenants for the wilderness foodchain
1t teleport delay below 30 to combat bots.

[winged mantle]

It just sounds like the pvpers in here only want one version of the wildy that's only fun for clans. Every idea is shut down and not open to change. I think a different wildy is due.

[obsidian venture]

If you’re also going to engage in discussion and dm folks stuff that like you gotta grow up a lil

[minor whale]

It's game-update chat man you can't just demand the channel be about one topic for like 2 days man

[brisk hill]

so out of touch im sry

how you got that out of this is craazy to me

[winged mantle]

The amount of people responding saying no

[brisk hill]

we just want

to be

asked

consulted

[obsidian venture]

For sure

[winged mantle]

I agree with that

[brisk hill]

kk

[winged mantle]

The main sentiment tho

[obsidian venture]

Idt anyone said no

[brisk hill]

not this l0l;

[restive storm]

I mean, we literally have been trying the “solo player” angle now for four years, and it sucks and is dead out there lol

[winged mantle]

That's very fair

[drifting merlin]

I want PvP to matter in the game like it did before

[winged mantle]

I want the wildy to be healthy and thriving.

Just multi revs was ass

[drifting merlin]

I want a dev team for PvP, I wnat ranked PvP, I want PvP to be a core apart of the game like any other MMO

It doesnt have to be multi revs but something similar

[winged mantle]

For sure

[obsidian venture]

They should re work bh as well…

[restive storm]

Whereas for 15 years before that it was busy and there were always fights, it was very unusual if after an hour you thought “wow nobody’s really out here” meanwhile now I hop 2 hours for 1 30s fight

[kind surge]

I mean we can also have small team pking though, that seems like what they all want back

[winged mantle]

Absolutely

[minor whale]

That's a long shot purely because people play for vastly different reasons nowadays
People back when pvp was popping didn't care about efficiency, gp/hr, or profit margins
But that's a different game to today and isn't coming back

[brisk hill]

butdoes that mean you die sometimes? and your time is wasted sometimes? the frustrations i see from pvmers sometimes hurts my soul because thats what they complain about :v

[restive storm]

They try this at least every other years, imo skill cap there is just far too high to get into, waste of time at this point

[winged mantle]

Part of why I think we need something else is to remove the previous mindsets of the wildy so new things can be made and experienced

[drifting merlin]

Yeah but why doesnt Jagex want to make more money off a potential osrs esport league or something dumb lol

Its literally free money

[limber creek]

Complaining about a few worlds held down and you werent invited is about the same as saying dang man world 330 is full i can't get in! I hate this its ass.
At least make something coherent as to why its bad is the issue.

[restive storm]

What does this look like though?

[floral blaze]

the very community that brought OSRS to life is now being outcast and shunned

[winged mantle]

As a pvmer i accept going into the wildy will lead to a death or 2

[winged mantle]

That's why i asked pvpers first

[brisk hill]

i mean the way the wilderness was for 15 years was changed overnight. that literally has happened l0l

[winged mantle]

Wildy redo

[restive storm]

But you’re telling us our ideas won’t work so I’m curious what yours would be

[limber creek]

She doesn't understand because she's not a part of it. Just a outspoken observer.

[minor whale]

People watch short term DMM matches but prefer just watching the big streamers Duke it out because of their personalities

Osrs pvp is unfortunately not something really that enjoyable to watch to anyone outside of people who already enjoy the game

Esports league pvp just seems out of touch as an idea

[winged mantle]

Depends on if I'm going to be shit on or not 🤷🏼‍♀️

[tender harness]

wildy in general just needs an overhaul.
whether its the multi scene or singles or just the entire map
ignore the want for multi revs partly I would rather see multi revs replaced with something else but here nor there

[winged mantle]

Cause theres a few people here that have just done that

[restive storm]

I mean go for it I’m not gonna be malicious but I’m not gonna say I agree if I don’t think it’s a good idea

[brisk hill]

i was rude earlier. i wont flame u for your ideas if it was me.

👍

[obsidian venture]

Just gotta not have freaks dm you and it’s a win

[limber creek]

Its what worked. Idc if its revs or not but a real hotspot and not this one off crap lol.
And thats what revs was.

[minor whale]

Ellie got told to go back to Zulrah because the men are talking earlier I am not confident people aren't gonna flame her lmao

[drifting merlin]

People do elo leagues for clan wars, theres an audience that enjoys pvp content for sure, its more engaging than pvm content even as just a viewer, who didnt watch elvemage growing up ?

[chrome lantern]

I think ellie’s point is also that even if something with similar concept to multi revs were to be introduced, it would be better to move away from it directly because multi revs has a lot of negative sentiment associated with it, whether or not you think those things were blown out of proportion or biased

[tender harness]

thats what I mean ultimately
it doesnt need to be revs people have nightmares of multi revs because reasons
but just new areas in wildy allow for natural hotspots to grow

[obsidian venture]

Multi revs was fun but also cancer

[drifting merlin]

The clan cup was a good event as well

I would love to be in a clan and have my trophy in the game!

[restive storm]

Can we not have jagex stand up and just say “sorry we overreacted” though? They admitted as much in the podcast lol, they’re the ones driving half the fear

[winged mantle]

I think for wildy defo give multi eco spots with incentives to be there but no rare weapons for irons to want just pure money.

Move the vw out of wildy, rework where multi zones are and make being in the wildy feel worth your time

[drifting merlin]

More stuff like that, you know?

[limber creek]

You don't have to own a voidwaker.

[sacred oracle]

[drifting merlin]

People love pvp cosmetics as well, so much reward potential in just cosmetics..

[chrome lantern]

idk I haven’t seen any of their podcasts at all, not really a format that interests me

[minor whale]

I'm sorry man but harking back to a decade ago as reason why it'd do well today just isn't something I think is genuine

[restive storm]

I dislike removing vw since it’s basically the only unique we have, but I mean rest makes sense

[winged mantle]

It's the main reasons irons go to the wildy

[drifting merlin]

Im giving examples of current day and past

[chrome lantern]

I do personally think the DMM rewards aren’t great. Crystal already has 5 recolors, sotd is barely any different, PoH should just already be in the game based on the poll it passed

[brisk hill]

yep you'd ahve to replace w/ something as lucrative

[drifting merlin]

anyways brb

[limber creek]

So balance pvp this way because it would benefit ironmen? Do you not see the hypocrisy?

[tender harness]

voidwaker can be moved doesnt need to be in the wildy
especially when its already cratering as much as it is from botting

[tough nacelle]

I still think the escape from the wildy should be the exciting part

Not the interruptions

Pvm no interruptions

But if you overstay you gotta escape with that shit

[winged mantle]

I'm saying let the people that want to be in the wilderness and don't incentivise irons with pvm upgrades

[tough nacelle]

Like delve but with real normal loot

And less focus on uniques

[brisk hill]

what is a vw though in an ironmans progression?

[tough nacelle]

Then you have the chaos of pvp fighting pvp

[brisk hill]

why do they need it?

they dont really

[tough nacelle]

Fairly important

[winged mantle]

Nex and toa

[tough nacelle]

D claws are ass to get on an iron

[brisk hill]

i went for it on my iron

bc i anti pk

[tough nacelle]

Burning claws are a good bridge

[chrome lantern]

It’s very very good for Nex but it’s not “needed”

[tough nacelle]

It’s not needed for sure but it’s a very strong item with dry protection

[winged mantle]

I learnt to anti pk when going for my vw

[brisk hill]

on my main the only thing i use vw for outside of wildy is for toa

[minor whale]

VW being Wildy is dumb as hell.
The update before they added it they said they're adding dpick to kq and VM because they didn't want bis being Wildy locked.

Then they add the best spec weapon in game that's important for pvm to Wildy again

[tough nacelle]

It’s also good for cox

[brisk hill]

cant stand cox so i wouldnt know tbh

[tough nacelle]

It’s just a good weapon in general

[brisk hill]

it is

[kind surge]

conversely I think ironman is all about interactive with as much of the game as possible (and of course self-sufficiency), so I still think there should be an incentive for even irons to go in the wildy (NOT braindead gp printers)

[brisk hill]

guarenteed damage

but thats not for pvm

its for pvp

[winged mantle]

Any pvm boss where you use a 1 handed weapon tbh

[brisk hill]

bc of the changes

they made to singles

[chrome lantern]

On my iron I don’t have any form of claws so I use it a lot more, but I’m also just very dry on burning claws

[brisk hill]

is itr makinbg snesE?

sry typing fast

[winged mantle]

That's fair.

Vw is used heavily on my end game iron

[restive storm]

I think that’s fine, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask irons to go into the Wildy when they are playing the game fully self sufficient. The Wildy is a part of the game still and should be expected to be involved in some sort of account progression

[winged mantle]

Just sharing my experiences so far

[tough nacelle]

But I think people need to not focus on the risk aspect because that’s not why it’s unfun

[winged mantle]

Irons get drawn in

[tough nacelle]

Iron Man definitely should have to go into wilderness

[brisk hill]

ithink this year youll see something replace webweaver at leviathian btw

[restive storm]

IMO regearing and rebanking are the most annoying things for me

[brisk hill]

so irons dont have to interact

as thats the trend

[winged mantle]

How do you make wildy fun for pvp and pvm is the hard issue

[tough nacelle]

I think it’s one of the few sinks and it makes having a high crafting level beneficial to make more black d hide and helps other unlocks having myths cape

[restive storm]

Although returning is definitely a skill in and of itself for multi

[tough nacelle]

This is definitely the most irritating part for the Pvm side as well

[brisk hill]

its fun if youre quick as heck

[tough nacelle]

No one ends up happening as you need to use the seed pod then from the seedpod you have to run to the spirit tree or use a house tab then you need to go back to a bank and then you need to run back to the pvm content you were doing

And someone can attack you again and they could be risking absolutely nothing, but you still have to leave

[restive storm]

If I die that 2 minute timer ain’t gonna mean a thing cuz it’s bare minimum fifteen minutes before I’m out there

[winged mantle]

But yeah if there are alternatives to wildy upgrades that push irons out of the wildy so the main content is for people that want to be in the wilderness that's a starting point

[brisk hill]

meant just dying and returning my b

restocking is much slower

[winged mantle]

I think arcan blade replaces vw to a degree

[brisk hill]

its faster in pvp multi pvp

[tough nacelle]

Yeah, if you die, it’s not a big deal

[brisk hill]

to die rather than bank

make sense?

thats why the tele changes fks multi

and why we are here

[restive storm]

I mean I can return (not from death) to anywhere in the Wildy in like under thirty seconds so idk if that’s that big a problem

[brisk hill]

pog full circle

[winged mantle]

Yeah I'm not really sure why they are adding the tele changes

It's a non issue

[brisk hill]

agreed

[tough nacelle]

I think it’s all of it together. That’s very frustrating.

[brisk hill]

we need more normies to echo the sentiment

👍

[restive storm]

Cmon normies don’t let our two days of ranting go unrewarded

[tender harness]

I mean I dont pvp but I dont even know who was asking for the tele changes
the blog was the first I even saw of them

[winged mantle]

Like I'm at the extreme of iron - endgame, max gear, clogging. So have done most content

[tough nacelle]

I’d much rather have to take all of the loot that I received from the boss and risk it trying to leave the wilderness fully and not being able leave through ferox

That way the boss can still have high rewards and the risk isn’t totally absolved, but now you’re not having frequent inconveniences

And then PVpers have hotspots

And you have 20 levels of wilderness to kill someone

[restive storm]

I think that’s the purpose of the escape caves, but those are literally SO BAD almost nobody even bothers to pk there

[chrome lantern]

I do wonder if Jagex has recently just been throwing the first idea at the wall and seeing what outrage comes out with good proposals

[tough nacelle]

Yeah, the caves are really bad from a pvm standpoint because you can get killed by six people at once

[chrome lantern]

That’s how Doom rewards felt

[winged mantle]

Just bad pkers pk there

The rats of wildy

[tough nacelle]

And from a PVP standpoint, it’s also un fun

[chrome lantern]

The biggest issue with that is you get stuck with whatever Jagex thinks is a good compromise

[tough nacelle]

People can teleport into random areas they can be hard to catch if you’re in a small group