game-update

[nocturne solstice]

You're making up your own points to argue against. You might as well say wildy is terribad because mammoths dont give a lot of gp.

[brisk hill]

I’m so confused how you still don’t understand the premise of what I am saying

If you = risk of dying from a player

[nocturne solstice]

I do understand completely what you're saying and I'm calling you dishonest.

[brisk hill]

You = should have a reward worth the risk lol

Do you agree with that statement at its base?

[nocturne solstice]

People aren't doing dark crabs, they're doing the things I told you they do which they find worth the risk.

[dawn jackal]

there are plenty of wildy activities that are worth the risk of dying

[brisk hill]

I’d argue there aren’t

Not in 2026

[nocturne solstice]

You are purposefully ignoring the things I told you that people do that are worth the risk, and picking random things to prove that wildy as a whole isn't worth going to.

[dawn jackal]

the whole map doens't need to shit out 4m/hr just for existing

[brisk hill]

I agree with that

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Money_making_guide

The first wilderness activity is about halfway down the page

Hope this helps 👍

[oblique mesa]

Larrans keys are like 10 down

[brisk hill]

Must’ve missed it l0l

Saw revs first

[nocturne solstice]

so you think the whole map doesnt need to be 4m/hr but you're upset wildy content isnt 18.4m+/hr?

[brisk hill]

I’m not upset lol

I’m here to pk

But you need something worth it for ppl to die

For an ecosystem

[nocturne solstice]

You started this by saying wildy is bad because its not worth doing. That sounds upset to me.

Its okay to be upset mind you

[brisk hill]

So be it then

I am upset as heck

Now

[brisk hill]

The point

[dawn jackal]

probably part of the issue is either a player has a lack of knowledge and fears the wildy and risks nothing OR they have knowledge and almost literally can't die

[nocturne solstice]

Is the point that you want more real players to pk instead of bots?

[brisk hill]

The point is you need small fish for big fish

[nocturne solstice]

Are you implying you want newbie pkers for you to pk then?

[brisk hill]

I don’t want to hunt defenseless pvmers

That’s boring

I want a reason for pkers to be in the wild

So I can pk them

[nocturne solstice]

I mean there is, the gp you get from the loot pinatas (pvmers)

[brisk hill]

Kk

You’re right lol

Wildly is fine

👍

[dawn jackal]

see the lot of you communicates like toddlers

[nocturne solstice]

I just want you to be more specific and realistic here so we can actually discuss a solution to your concerns.

[brisk hill]

Everything I say this guy says I’m wrong lol

There’s no point in continuing lol

Just gg no re

[nocturne solstice]

Well it is wrong, how you feel isn't wrong but what you're suggesting won't solve the problems you're having. I don't think you've really proposed solutions either.

We can fix the wildy of course but vague sentences like "I don't want to hunt defenseless pvmers" but then saying "You need small fish for big fish" also implies you want to fight people weaker than you which the pvmers are.

[brisk hill]

You need a multi hotspot

Like multi revs

I gave my solution in my original statement

[nocturne solstice]

How does multi hotspot bring in the small fish for you?

[oblique mesa]

I wish there was a reason to be in the wilderness without the absolute minimum rag tier risk. Even all the activities that generate gp never give you a reason to actually risk

[nocturne solstice]

Does that not let you just dogpile people? I understand a lot of pvpers have fun doing that though.

[brisk hill]

Did you enter wilderness & player kill during revs

Do you know the ecosystem that was rev caves?

That whole part of the wild was active because of 1 active multi spot

[broken flame]

OSRS Discord Mod / Frequent Reddit User joined the discussion let me grab my popcorn

[nocturne solstice]

Are you just avoiding the question now hoping for some kinda gotcha moment like you did earlier asking if I went to the wildy, then pretended I didn't pk, then just didn't say anything after when I said I did go wildy and pk?

[broken flame]

brb genuinely making some

[brisk hill]

I’m asking because it would help me explain in great detail or few

[nocturne solstice]

You can just say what you're thinking, you liked multipk at revs. That's fine of course but let's find reasons to bring it back.

[brisk hill]

You’re the one who is aggro trying to prove someone wrong

Please reflect lol

[nocturne solstice]

Dont use my experiences to explain to yourself why I think this way. Use your experiences to explain why multi rev pk is good so any lurkers here are convinced as well to bring it back.

[dawn jackal]

pkers kinda like skillers in that the community at large just hates interacting with their part of the game

[brisk hill]

So did you enjoy multi rev pking? Because if you had you’d know what I mean by ecosystem!

[dawn jackal]

and generally attracts weird people

[chilly swan]

by naturally attracting pkers to a new spot ? and yeah the fun is in piling people?

[nocturne solstice]

I mostly hear people really wanting PJ timer to be removed because they enjoyed dogpiling on people in rev caves. I understand people had a lot of fun with that.

I also understand why Jagex added PJ timers but I'd like to hear your experiences with rev caves to weigh the cost/benefits you know?

[broken flame]

No matter what you said you wont convince the reddit user/osrs DISCORD mod to change his mind.

js

[nocturne solstice]

Do you even know what my opinion is?

[broken flame]

donut care

im eating popcorn

[nocturne solstice]

Then why do you keep bringing it up

[broken flame]

meow!

[ionic tartan]

There's the multi ecosystem problems (there's no more multi hotspots after multi revs removed), but there's also the singles ecosystem problems.

They're 2 different issues.

[brisk hill]

The only singles hot spot you have now is spider & altar

So I’d agree

[broken flame]

Can't wait for something I've been doing for years to be taken away because people cry about PvP! Womp womp!

Updates made by people who dont even know what multi pvp is!

[ionic tartan]

The problem with singles is PJ timer for skulled players have made it super safe for pkers/anyone remotely informed about freeze log.

And when pkers are super safe, singles wildy is mostly just the uninformed pvmers getting killed and pvpers fighting each other NH style in the wildy (no ecosystem because the other half of the food chain is separated from each other.
Before: pvper -> pker killing pvmer -> uninformed pvmer.
Now: pvper fight each other | pker killing pvmer -> uninformed pvmer

[nocturne solstice]

Well Teal, if you do want to pick apart my opinion.

I think the wildy needs a rework from the ground up. There's too many odd conditionals in the wildy (Spellbook resizing, no autocast, tele only 30 under, some gear work some don't, etc) that need to be made consistant with the rest of the game. It's also too safe with teleports and logouts being too easy for escapes.

I think teleports (items, spells, etc) should be disabled and instead add teleport spots in the wildy like the obelisk or levers for when people want to escape. I don't have any strong opinion on PJ timers but removing it and having multicombat hotspots in more in the deeper levels makes sense to me.

[brisk hill]

I don’t want to pic apart your opinion fella. I stated mine & was told multiple times it was wrong (for an opinion). lol? Why would I entertain yours or read your paragraph (respectfully fella)

[nocturne solstice]

Hey if you dont want the opportunity thats fine. We can just respectfully disagree with each other 👍

[broken flame]

Respectfully =^w^=

[brisk hill]

The fact is multi has been dead& the wilderness hasn’t been the same since the only hot spot we ever had was removed lol

That’s a fact

Regardless of if you protect your pals at altar once a month

👍 🤝

[broken flame]

but i died at bear on my ironman

[nocturne solstice]

Considering altar is like singles except inside, I wouldnt exactly call it a multi hotspot but sure.

[brisk hill]

It’s not

It’s awful lol

[nocturne solstice]

Multi in wildy is definitely dead because of chaos altar.

[brisk hill]

I said alter was a singles hotspot earlier to the other fella

I don’t really consider 6 tiles a hotspot for multi

[nocturne solstice]

Then why did you bring up altar again.

[oblique mesa]

@brisk hill do you think the worm boss would have worked out?

[broken flame]

i wanted that boss sounded cool

[oblique mesa]

Or what do you think could be added besides just bring back revs

[brisk hill]

It brought activity to private servers that implemented the same thing

[oblique mesa]

Feel like theres so many empty spaces in the wilderness that could be used

[broken flame]

^

[brisk hill]

You’d see pkers

You wouldn’t see Tony’s and Jonny’s with craw bows

Now does that mean it would be successful long term? Idk prolly not

[broken flame]

im asusming the general pvm community didnt like multi revs because clans held it down right

[nocturne solstice]

I think the main reason was it being on a schedule that annoyed people.

[oblique mesa]

The worm? Yeah

[nocturne solstice]

That was the main complaint I heard anyway

[brisk hill]

If that’s the case why would DMM be ok?

[nocturne solstice]

2nd to that was being restricted to specific worlds, then was the reward being pvp content upgrading pvm gear or something.

[oblique mesa]

Because the people who complained about the worm don't get a say in DMM

[brisk hill]

Ironic huh

[chilly swan]

prob cos dmm limited time

[brisk hill]

Those are active in DMM

[nocturne solstice]

No no the worm was like, spawns 4 times a day at set hours. DMM is just constantly available for a few months, unless you meant rifts.

[broken flame]

its crazy how popular DMM is but people hate the wilderness

[brisk hill]

That’s what I meant, the rifts

Not DMM in general

[oblique mesa]

DMM also gets progressively less popular as the event goes on /shrug

[nocturne solstice]

I imagine you could probaly blame ironmen for that then. They would feel "compelled" to farm the worm for BiS upgrades to pvm gear but they don't play DMM.

[broken flame]

i dont see the problem with scheduled world bosses or events, seeing as how teal said the private servers do it and it brings activity but also games like guild wars do it and its some of the most popular activities

[dawn jackal]

people hate the wildy because getting zatched for your spade is just annoying and 99% of the playerbase doesn't interact with it further

[nocturne solstice]

The uhh less you guys bring up private servers the better tbh.

quote guild wars if you want though thats fine

[oblique mesa]

iirc most of the conversation was around how runescape doesn't have dailies / timegates / things on a timer

[broken flame]

its just an example we arent literally naming them

[oblique mesa]

And that was what people like alot about it

[dawn jackal]

and dmm is a whole experience

[broken flame]

i dont play them personally lol

[brisk hill]

PvP clans were going to p servers when PvP was ruined

[nocturne solstice]

I know but it's just really muddy waters and I'd rather not anyone accidentally slip up

[brisk hill]

No

Its history?

[broken flame]

weirdge

[nocturne solstice]

Like Teal just did, look don't bring the server up again

[brisk hill]

Shameful behavior tbh

[broken flame]

what server did we bring up

[brisk hill]

I’m not advertising a p server

[broken flame]

xd

now im confused!

[nocturne solstice]

You are because it is a private server, if you want to discuss Old School Runescape say Old School Runescape or OSRS

[broken flame]

oh you can mention them?

just now?

😄

inb4 kick

because osrs reddit user

[nocturne solstice]

Its definitely coming if teal brings it up again

[brisk hill]

A reference that’s relevant I’d argue

[broken flame]

l0l

[brisk hill]

Would you agree or no

[broken flame]

teals fate is in my hands

oh god

not again not my void

[brisk hill]

Gl

L0l

[nocturne solstice]

It doesnt matter if its relevant just don't bring up other servers

[broken flame]

what server was even brought up tho

thats where im confused

no one named a server just said activities used in them are popular

no one is advertising

[brisk hill]

Yes

[nocturne solstice]

They did, I'm not gunna tell you its name for obvious reasons.

[broken flame]

the same activity used in other games

no one did

[nocturne solstice]

The obvious reason being me telling you and advertising the server.

[brisk hill]

I mentioned the serve?

[dawn jackal]

yall are communicating like 8 year olds lmao

[broken flame]

im advertising guild wars 2 then

?

[chilly swan]

scheduled bosses suck, random boss at random place and time is 10x better

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah again thats fine, better in #general but guild wars 2 is fine.

[brisk hill]

Regardless, it’s seen success

World bosses have seen success

Elsewhere lol

[broken flame]

no

[brisk hill]

How about that

[broken flame]

brb tho cause work but my answer to your suggestion is no

😄

[brisk hill]

But I would like to clarify I didn’t mention any sever by name because I don’t play them lol

But it is a fact

[nocturne solstice]

You did, that's why i deleted those messages, how about we just move on?

[brisk hill]

DMM is also successful in implementing it

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah rifts were successful in DMM

[broken flame]

you cant say DMM thats not OSRS !!!

[brisk hill]

I did not but Okiedokie fella you are the winner

[broken flame]

thats a game mode

we cant mention leagues either

XDDD

[chilly swan]

does anyone have an actual suggestion for timer alternatives besides the threshold minimum?

[brisk hill]

Updates are catered

[broken flame]

so many weird rules like the wilderness

😄

[brisk hill]

For PvP

[craggy cairn]

bro can't let it go

[dawn jackal]

its the same comms as if you told a 8 year old they can't say shit

wild stuff

[brisk hill]

Thanks for the freedom

“07” is osrs btw

Not a private server

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah that was my mistake, there's another number for runescape thats not okay

[brisk hill]

I’m just trying to discuss the only part of the game I care about lol

[broken flame]

Glad I got kicked over a mistake

[brisk hill]

Don’t rage bait. We are all here becuase we love the game

We have no power so we must follow the rules

Especially being a minority as pkers already

[nocturne solstice]

Honestly bluh has been rage baiting for like the past 20 minutes or so.

They are not helping your case

[broken flame]

I’m not rage baiting

I just find your made up rules silly

We make up more as we go

[nocturne solstice]

All rules are made up

[oblique mesa]

"im not rage baiting im only shitposting" 🫃

[restive storm]

GM pvpcord

[nocturne solstice]

Problems happen, people make up a rule to stop that problem happening again.

[craggy cairn]

You opted into this server, nobody forced you to be here, you agreed to them lol

[broken flame]

I’m apparently breaking rules I’m not breaking tho

😄

[dawn jackal]

what are suggestions from such dedicated PVPers and wilderness enjoyers such as yourself for bringing in a multi hotspot with longevity

[brisk hill]

Plenty of pkers like that which is why we don’t get updates. But if you had been neglected in a game you love like osrs you’d probably get upset after a while too

[brisk hill]

A multi hot spot that competes with the best money makers in the game

Because when wildy thrived that’s what we had

[dawn jackal]

a boss, a skilling activity, a minigame?

[brisk hill]

Anything

Don’t care

[chilly swan]

sailing multi islands 😁

or new multi cave

[dawn jackal]

like what are suggestions other than shit out money at one spot

[brisk hill]

Just let me pull up and pk

[restive storm]

no pj timer either so i can hit the little timmy pkers that are farming pvmers

[brisk hill]

That’s the suggestion

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah well being nicer gets people to help you. Rage baiting makes people hate you and do stuff specifically to spite you.

OSRS is an odd game where we have polls so making the rest of the playerbase despise you doesn't help you get more content. As we saw with wrathmaw polls and other pvp polls.

[restive storm]

also i wanna bring along my own little timmy friends so they can learn to pk too

[broken flame]

The money doesn’t have to be 300m per hour but a nice consistent hourly rate that is worth doing

[brisk hill]

The player base will always despise us becusee they think we want to pk the rest of you guys for spades lol.

[dawn jackal]

i guess is it an acceptable ecosystem for bots to do the content, people try and pj the bots, and then pvpers pk the pjers is that the goal

i dunno i'm trying to ask not argue

[brisk hill]

I know fella

[restive storm]

correct

theree used to be an actual food chain

now its just 1 straight line

[broken flame]

The thing is bots weren’t as bad in multi revs or even really even a thing

[brisk hill]

Yes there was an ecosystem

[broken flame]

As singles content its flooded

[brisk hill]

That entire part of the wilderness brought so many players to the general area for multiple reasons

[dawn jackal]

unless there's something that requires a lot of time that can only be done in the wildy itll just be bots doing the content

[broken flame]

It literally enables them

And kills our economy

[nocturne solstice]

To be fair people do get pk'd a lot for spades lmao. As you should tbh, some ding dongs bring max cash stack for some reason.

[restive storm]

bots are 100x worse with singles + and its inarguable

[nocturne solstice]

People get forgetful during clue runs.

[brisk hill]

Yeah but what does dying & being reset for 20 seconds really do? The core of that issue lies with the person imo

[oblique mesa]

bots are also a problem everywhere in the game not just the wildy /shrug

[dawn jackal]

yea unfortunately thats just most of what people experience in the wildy

[restive storm]

if ur dying doing a clue thats ur own fault tbh

the wildy is so dead that should be impossibl

[dawn jackal]

is getting shit on for a spade or 5 dragon bones

[nocturne solstice]

Depending on what they lost, it could be weeks of progress or more.

[broken flame]

True but why enable it further and give them one of the best money makers

[nocturne solstice]

The spade is nothing but if they accidentally brought a couple mill and they're a newbie? oof

[brisk hill]

Then don’t bring weeks of progress into the wild unless: ITS WORTH IT!

You’re starting to get my point pingu

[broken flame]

Seems counter productive

[brisk hill]

[oblique mesa]

👉 👈 sometimes I sit at the wildy clue spots on world 420 to get stoner spades

[nocturne solstice]

Oh I agree with you, it's completely on them.

[brisk hill]

Yes but the last few words

Are the whole point

[nocturne solstice]

If you dont wanna risk it then dont bring it to the wildy, ezpz

[brisk hill]

Of my spiel

It needs

To be worth it

[restive storm]

https://tenor.com/view/jfc-omg-no-smoking-cigarette-smoke-head-shake-gif-18161146778440886047

[brisk hill]

A medium clue isn’t worth it

I’d argue

L0l

[nocturne solstice]

Well your point about "if it's worth it" implies intent whereas I'm saying they're forgetful lmao

[restive storm]

im old enough to remember when jmods equivalated this to a heinous crime

[nocturne solstice]

They didnt bring their cash stack on purpose, they just got forgetful during clue steps

[dawn jackal]

if the proposed teleport chages existed alongside some mystical wildy hotspot where a bot could get 20m gp/hr is that fine or not so much

[brisk hill]

Listen the wildy is ran by RoT. I’m not worried about how the changes will affect my clan becuase we can adapt to them. I just know for the greater game a lot of the changes made are not good

[nocturne solstice]

I dunno about it being bad for the greater game.

I feel like most wildy issues and complaints are self contained in the wildy.

[restive storm]

multi is ran by rot, singles is ran by whoever is decent enough to know they arent gonna die in a 500m set

[nocturne solstice]

Like uhh, how has PJ timer at revs affected people at CoX or ToB?

[craggy cairn]

I don't think anything in OSRS as it currently exists will really ever make the wildy worth it so long as there are alternative sources like PVM or the GE. They'd have to do big overhauls to progression imo

for the average player

[restive storm]

the coxers/tobbers still complain about the wildy despite them saying they would pk if only it was 1v1 fair fights

[oblique mesa]

No like OSRS as a game, not the specific content. Is what @brisk hill is saying I think

[brisk hill]

Yeah singles + is sick 😔

[restive storm]

its honestly disgusting

watching rhys run around with 5 brews risking 1.2b

and no range

[nocturne solstice]

I imagine a lot of people complain about the wildy due to a few short bad interactions like during MA1, MA2, or prayer training.

[restive storm]

right which is why im disgruntled that updates CONTINUOUSLY get made for those people, rather then the people that spend all their time there

[brisk hill]

I mean their counter argument is fair. Wildy changes don’t affect cox or other raids. Other than the fact that now it’s their content being farmed by bots & not just mine

[dawn jackal]

i would bet my left sock jagex has the interaction numbers that show that no one goes into the wildy and the people that do log out way more often after getting zatched than anywhere else in the game

[nocturne solstice]

If they did mean it that way then it's all a bit too vague to be a convincing argument to me. Especially since OSRS population has only risen over the past few years.

[brisk hill]

Mostly bots farming pvm

I’d argue

[nocturne solstice]

That is as they say "cope"

[brisk hill]

I’m puffin it I’m a multi pker

[craggy cairn]

Nah, lots of influx. I came back recently due to Leagues. Lots of WoW players came over in a big wave

[restive storm]

we also know that jagex is trying more and more to cater towards non-pkers like with their last survey, which polled a boss that was gonna 1 shot anybody with a skull, and be better to farm unskulled

Like how is that remotely in any way a good pvp update lol

[brisk hill]

^

[nocturne solstice]

That sounds made up

[restive storm]

its literally reddit brain rot take put in a jagex survey

it was in a jagex survey man

[nocturne solstice]

Ill have to read up on their last survey again lmao

Was it the survey in-game or was it a website thing?

[restive storm]

website

[oblique mesa]

Wrathmaw was going to prioritize skulled players iirc

[nocturne solstice]

damn

[brisk hill]

Yes

[nocturne solstice]

Oh you were talking about wrathmaw

[restive storm]

or they like put it on twitter or somethin but it was one of those more in depth ones

no

this is much more recent like a couple months ago

maybe 2-3?

[brisk hill]

Dude 4 item unskull sounding so much more promising omg

[restive storm]

every1 gonna be ragging

[brisk hill]

Inshallah my ely zcb & korasi will own

[oblique mesa]

Ooops you skulled on me :^) time to go reset

[restive storm]

its just SO UNBELIEVABLE thats the direction they wanna go, despite the wildy being the safest its ever been

[brisk hill]

My +4 item is suffering

[dawn jackal]

is it really that unbelievable the game wants to add updates that hurt the wildy

i feel like thats a very believable thing

[broken flame]

It is lol

Sadly

[dawn jackal]

people hate the wildy lol and the game needs people to play

[restive storm]

the absolutely last thing that needs a buff is 4 item unskullers when u can already be on venge, and 4 item stuff like hally/claw/vw/zcb.... like how much of an advantage do you need lmao

[brisk hill]

It should be but most ppl just don’t wanna die for spades so they don’t care & actively root against us

[dawn jackal]

definitely unfortunate for the wildy enjoyers

[broken flame]

We have nothing and all they do is take from PvP

[craggy cairn]

I think it's pretty believable. I'm sure Jamflex has internal numbers stating how overwhelmingly the average player avoids the wilderness, despite it being the safest it's ever been, so they're making it as appealing to PVMers as much as they can just to get them in the zone.

[oblique mesa]

With the new polling system what do you think the cutoff for voting in pvp related polls should be? x amount of players killed?

[restive storm]

if u wanna seee something depressing go to wiki money makers, and look up the best wildy money makers. It isnt even popular content. Its just charging glories, looting larrens chest and stupid stuff like that

[brisk hill]

Make it worth the time & deaths

Simple as

Make it so bots can’t farm it

Aka multi

So prices don’t drop

Simple AS

[oblique mesa]

Venenatis is better than toa

[nocturne solstice]

Why would multi stop bots? I feel like teleport restrictions would stop them better.

[restive storm]

they literally allow the content to be turbo botted, rather than face ironmen crying about having to do multi content

[dawn jackal]

if its worth the time people will bot it lol

[nocturne solstice]

Since you know, one click insta tele out to safety when anyone appears with a skull.

[brisk hill]

If it’s a metric time spent in wildy

[craggy cairn]

Like I said before, I don't think there is anything they could add to the game short of a BiS item that would make it worth

[broken flame]

They wouldn’t live long enough to make profit

[brisk hill]

They tried that & it gets botted to death in singles (voidwaker is guaranteed damage why is it only 30m)

[restive storm]

the bots also have like 6 way 1tick take offs, freeze dd & log with perfect seed walking so it doesnt really matter if u put a tele restriction o nthem

[nocturne solstice]

So the assumption is that it being multi makes it more popular so more pkers come to annoy bots? That makes sense.

[restive storm]

precisely

[dawn jackal]

ive been trying to think of what they could put in the game that doesn't just turbo break things and isn't bottable

[brisk hill]

It’s easier by 100x. 2 ppl doing damage to a tick perfect prayer bot win every time

[nocturne solstice]

Okay so multi would definitely help take down the auto prayers, also fair.

[restive storm]

which is why it was so much less of a problem back in the multi days

[craggy cairn]

Which was my point, there's really nothing they can do, the wildy is just inherently broken

[broken flame]

The only problem is when you give it specific conditions like Vetion where they aren’t in combat and can logout mid fight

Then that defeats the purpose

[oblique mesa]

Everything gets botted, its unfair that the wilderness has a higher bar for "unbottable" /shrug

[restive storm]

yeah, like it could get noobs into pking. Youre not gonna introduce someone to pking, and say ok man, now you gotta 1tick bolt and freeze dd every time you hit otherwise you take too much damage

like that isnt approachable for noobs

[oblique mesa]

Look at doom, some of the hardest content and crazy botted

[dawn jackal]

i don't think it being bottable is that bad

[brisk hill]

Game is on a tick system. You’ll never break bots I don’t think

[dawn jackal]

just more of a thinking thing

i think it has to be bottable

[brisk hill]

Everything can be counted

[dawn jackal]

anything in the wildy will be largely avoided by real players (unless its some kinda upgrade like MA that takes way way longer)

[brisk hill]

Yeah but that doesn’t mean we should gut the entire thing because it gets taken advantage of. If that’s the case all pvm should be restricted

[restive storm]

real players were at multi revs literally all day everyday doing both pvm and pvp

[brisk hill]

Like in WoW, if I’m not mistaken, you can run raids a lot but you’re only guaranteed loot the first time you do the raid that day? Right @broken flame

[restive storm]

locked after 1 raid

[brisk hill]

If we remove content after it gets taken advantage of

[restive storm]

well... retail ur not

classic your locked

[brisk hill]

The same should be applied to pvm I think

[brisk hill]

Oki ty for the clarification. Played wow last year but was first time & not really experienced with it

But I do remember raids being different

[dawn jackal]

what made revs not botted to the level of other content?

[broken flame]

Yeah in classic you’re locked to one instance of each raid

[nocturne solstice]

That sounds terrible 😅

[broken flame]

Per day or something on classic

[restive storm]

the fact that it was very active with pkers

[nocturne solstice]

No wonder people went from WoW to OSRS

[brisk hill]

It’s not that it wasn’t botted, it’s just that it was in multi & there were constant pkers.

[brisk hill]

It is! Which is why PvP enjoyers are upset and communicate like we are 9

All we get are retractions

Detractions*

[restive storm]

you can argue most pkers are in revs rn, but its nowhere near the #s as before, and the vast majority dont bother hitting bots cuz theyre a giant pain to kill, whereas before in multi it took 2s to kill them with a group of people so it was worth it

[broken flame]

When it was multi I would eagerly come home from work to play because it was genuinely a fun time and enjoyed pking with my friends

[restive storm]

yeah it was significantly more casual friendly

[brisk hill]

Multi revs was a great way for noobs to learn how to pk

[broken flame]

Now it’s like lol you wanna raid I guess ?

[brisk hill]

That’s how i learned

Gmauling ppl in revs as a lvl 72

[broken flame]

It’s how I learned

[brisk hill]

Now it’s like

Go play lms against tick perfect machine lol

Did you learn anything ?

[restive storm]

yeah i absolutely do not ask my friends this

id rather not play the game

then i login wow and q arena

[broken flame]

Lmfao

[restive storm]

pvm in runescape is just so meh

[broken flame]

It’s only rewarding if you play iron or raid

And raids gets old fast

[dawn jackal]

you for sure can have that opinion i think its also important to realize that its not shared by most of the people playing this game

[restive storm]

learning inferno was fun, and im sure colo would be, but i just dont need quiver for anything

[broken flame]

I play Ironman and have max cape

[dawn jackal]

people can sit there at vorkath for 60 hours with a smile on their face

[restive storm]

outside of tthat everything been kinda meh

[broken flame]

I’m a nerd

[brisk hill]

Just like killing ppl for spades is looked at as an incel activity

[broken flame]

Just like you

[crisp beacon]

I learned I suck at PKing 🫣

[dawn jackal]

not apples to apples but ive done like way more hours of skilling than is socially acceptable and its always good to remind myself most people would like a button to get 99 mining

just the way it be

[brisk hill]

Not good for new people huh :v

[restive storm]

the death of skiilling is why i deironed at like 2050 total like 6-7 years ago

[obsidian venture]

It’s as rewarding for anything you do if you care enough

[brisk hill]

You don’t like minigame scape??

[restive storm]

pvmscape/minigame scape is so lame

[obsidian venture]

Wouldn’t limit it to iron or raids 😭

[dawn jackal]

its more activity scape than minigamescape but kinda picking nits

[obsidian venture]

To some degree maybe but skill ceilings do exist

[crisp beacon]

granted, I don’t really PK (iron) and i play mobile. But, it’s fun sometimes to just shoot the shit, and laugh.

[dawn jackal]

as in you aren't just at the quarry for 1600 hours for really any skills anymore

[broken flame]

As an iron man dopamine comes from upgrades and as pvmer it comes from money

[brisk hill]

Do you have a main? Or just iron?

[dawn jackal]

you do activities like drift nets and seph and the docks

[obsidian venture]

For sure

[restive storm]

pvm just bad money compared to pvp so id never bother for that reason

[broken flame]

Why don’t ironmen pk they enabled it. Transfer key to main and buy bonds

[obsidian venture]

Gp is always a source but I mainly pvm for pbs and pets

[crisp beacon]

nah, I’m one of those “Oh i played this when I was kid” returners 2-3 years ago, back from Pre-GE days. Mobile is what really got me back in anyways.

[broken flame]

Oh right the money 💰

[brisk hill]

Nice welcome back

[obsidian venture]

If you decide your whole account is just gp farming that’s a you issue

As main at least

[brisk hill]

Wdym the entire game is mid maxed

??

[oblique mesa]

Scared to lose my KO weapons 🙁

[broken flame]

Arkham blad

[oblique mesa]

Been fun with arkan blade though

[broken flame]

Sorry driving

[brisk hill]

Arkansas sword goes crazy

[oblique mesa]

Was fun the first few days before they adjusted the buyback price

[broken flame]

Blade of Abraham

[dawn jackal]

this isn't totally true though otherwise everyone would have 7 accounts getting 110m / hr boosting

[brisk hill]

Add it perdu’s shop. Update coming 2027!

[dawn jackal]

people just min max to a point of convenience

[restive storm]

4200 vetion kc cleared me from pet hunting on my pure kinda just cba anymore

may go bnack iin 2200 worlds but idk

[obsidian venture]

I’m slowly chipping away at stuff

At 29 atm

[broken flame]

Idc about the price let me have more than one

[brisk hill]

!

I have 350 ring of shadows

I will pay idc just let me stack lol

[broken flame]

Love that ring

[brisk hill]

I’m glad we have discourse in here & can sway some of you pvmers to see our side. Unfortunately it means nothing if J Mods don’t peep or hear or consider our opinions. Somehow this update has been pushed without even considering the clans that roam wild. Hopefully Jagex will consider us before they fk the wild up anymore

[restive storm]

their lack of willingness to discuss with pkers outside of their group of streamer friends is pretty disheartening, especially with ydays proposal being basically universally disliked

[dawn jackal]

appreciate the discussion and i definitely agree that wildy enjoyers are very shafted

[obsidian venture]

Didn’t see the other platforms tbh

[oblique mesa]

Can we also make dragon spear easier to get so I can spear with my bros on my iron 🥺

[obsidian venture]

Did any streamers have input on this supporting pkers?

[brisk hill]

Dino gave feedback enabling this decision

Manked asked in his chat

[dawn jackal]

i just am not wise enough to think of a real fix other than make a 15m/hr something in the wildy which feels kinda clunky

[broken flame]

Manked is a noob

[crisp beacon]

Goraks. I also got two from Zulrah before my Tanzinite Fang 😒

[broken flame]

this

[restive storm]

he isnt a noob theres just far farrrr too much input from content creators taken into account while ignoring the entire rest of the community, as if the content creators arent insanely biased

[broken flame]

idk man hes kinda nooby

he used unenchanted bolts

[brisk hill]

The way your average pker views streamers & their influence: I make money off this game & as such all content should be catered towards me

[broken flame]

unless ur nish, then everyone hates you for having gray hair

jk i like nish

[restive storm]

i tuned into nish for 2 seconds last night and tbf he was venting about the change being stupid

hes like the only person i know that streams and ACTUALLY does some multi content (on sundays)

[zinc galleon]

Yeah I appreciate that nish does multi events regularly with his stream.

[ionic tartan]

Streamers are also too biased towards 1v1 "fair" fights in the wildy.
Like there's worlds for NH and BH already, but that can't happen in the wildy when there's an inherent unfairness with:

1. wildy levels (fights with 20+ cb levels diff)
2. the fact that a ton of pvmers in the wildy don't even know how to freeze log
3. not everyone in the wildy is there to fight other pvpers (aka the pkers killing pvmers) - these pkers are also super safe nowadays with PJ timer protection

[restive storm]

yeah idk why they got so greedy and needed every area of the game to be made specifically for them

like tell me again why we turned 43 singles wildy into GE fighting again lol

[zinc galleon]

This is an interesting topic/discussion, take this theoretical:
what if you put a single monster spawn in the mammoth pit that was 15(?)m/hr. What is the effective gp/hr per person? If it takes 4 people to do it/defend from attackers it is effectively 3m/hr assuming you are still killing it on rate with contention.

[brisk hill]

Don’t even get me started on the fact that most nh’ers wanted an NH Bh world & instead we got multi tele changes

[brisk hill]

1 click teleport makes this broken under 30 though, just for your hypothetical

[restive storm]

well ya see the problem with this idea is theres like 450 worlds

its basically just zombie pirates w/ more money

[brisk hill]

Who asked for zombie pirate change too lol

Man

[restive storm]

i did actually want a place to pk on my pure in a bit lower lvl wildy than lvl 25, but id much rather it be in singles

[hard axle]

1 click teleport makes it impossible to balance, which is why the most balanced pieces of content is 30+

[restive storm]

zombie pirates the problem is just hopping there is the worst thing since they made escape caves

[hard axle]

either the content is too fucking weak and not worth doing, or its overpowered because you can leave instantly

[brisk hill]

Tough place to find middle ground

[restive storm]

my favorite is despite jagex insisting singles+ is good, they havent applied the fix to make the wildy ACTUAL singles+ i.e. you cant hit a person off a green dragon

[hard axle]

honestly, 1 dude running around in singles in max is eh

it arguably makes it worse for everyone else lmao

that's the con of removing singles teams

[restive storm]

yeah its super lame, especially when theyre gonna dunk anyone who isnt a top 1% pker, like anybody wonder why you dont see mystic sets roaming caves

but streamers got wwhat they wanted, the 1/1k time where they find a little timmy they usually execute him in about 3 seconds and giggle

[hard axle]

i mean yeah, they convinced people who didn't know better to support it

like if ur a pvmer or a billybob, not many people are going to singles team you

they'll just beat you 1v1

it wasn't a huge concern in the past either

[restive storm]

and if they do, they gotta fight off 45 hobgoblins tryina pj them off you in order to kill you

i think people commonly forget that

[zinc galleon]

Not sure what you mean, like people just insta tele while killing the monster? Then they make effectively less gp/hr

[hard axle]

it makes it zero risk effectively

I've done over 7k wildy boss kills and the amount of times i've died was <10

[restive storm]

same w/ my pure doing 4200 vetion kc

[hard axle]

because I just tp'd the moment someone can in range

[restive storm]

think i died maybe 5-6 times

[brisk hill]

Lmfao I didn’t think about this. Now it’s nothing but megatrons trying to kill a guy with 800k loot l0l

[hard axle]

the kph was still massively inflated

[brisk hill]

Either you stay & I kill you or you click teleport lol

Obviously you tele

0 risk like others pointed out 👍

[restive storm]

not to mention theyre just gonna be there in msb, black dhide chaps +1

[dawn jackal]

if you could find a way to remove scouts at wildy bosses does that change anything for wildy enjoyers

or not really

[restive storm]

absolutely not

[zinc galleon]

Right, so the problem in the hypothetical now is what makes it worth for someone to stay and contest as opposed to leaving?

[restive storm]

the escape caves are just so awful, thats the main reason i never go multi wildy bosses

[dawn jackal]

lets say they adjusted the arenas and removed scouts

[hard axle]

It doesn't actually

Artio specifically can be tp'd out of if you do blood barrage method

before they TB you

[restive storm]

the problem then goes to, if i get a kill and bank im forced to sit there afk for 2 minutes due to an artificial timer theyre putting into the game for no reason

[hard axle]

chunk radius is 16 tiles, tb cast range is 10 tile

[restive storm]

https://tenor.com/view/okie-dokie-okie-ok-tábom-taqpariu-gif-15515470

[brisk hill]

How many friends I have & how many friends he has would determine what happens next

[hard axle]

BB method you sit by the door

spindel/calv u have 1t when they drop in iirc

artio u have like 5 😭

[dawn jackal]

well yea the tele changes are 15 levels of [redacted]

just moreso thinking if theres a more better way than simply spawning in another 15m gp / hr method

if they could adjust the existing content

[brisk hill]

Adjust it back I agree

Welcome back multi revs

[restive storm]

i think the throwing gp only really works in multi - it also needs to be RELATIVELY painleess to hop there, in singles the only real way to create activity is taking out the pj timer to bring back an actual food chain

[dawn jackal]

do people enjoy giant scale multi fights

[brisk hill]

MMO turned single player looter

[dawn jackal]

20v20 or w/e

[brisk hill]

Yea but not for long l0l

[restive storm]

im more of a like 4-5 man kinda person that just likes to hit and run on stuff, but plenty of people love big teams

[brisk hill]

They’re gonna change that too which is why we are here in the first place

[dawn jackal]

like would the game benefit if there was some kinda stupid area where you specifically do your 20v20 fights and the rest of the wildy is capped to 5v5 or pick your number

[restive storm]

not really

sounds insanely janky and i have 0 faith they could ever implement it even if we wanted to

see also: singles to multi post pj timer

[dawn jackal]

or is jagex just totally off base and people teleing in to infinity at these large battles not an issue

[brisk hill]

They’re off base

A rag war just finished up that went during Christmas

If people didn’t want to participate during Christmas

They wouldn’t lol

But they did

[restive storm]

yeah jagex is honestly hopelessly lost rn

[dawn jackal]

interesting ok

[restive storm]

they need pvpcord back to tell them what people are ACTUALLY thinking

[brisk hill]

Can I post links here like

It went for 104 hours

[dawn jackal]

i had just assumed that there was an issue with rag wars

[brisk hill]

If people wanted to fk off they would’ve

[zinc galleon]

Right, so at some point say there’s like 20 ppl fighting over a 15m/hr monster, it’s not really about the gp anymore

[brisk hill]

But 104 hours lol

[restive storm]

naw the only people involved in rag wars are people that wanna be involved in rag wars lol

[dawn jackal]

makes sense

[restive storm]

otherwise youd just not keep going back, or select one of the other 500 WORLDS to go to that spot in

[brisk hill]

Yeah like do you think it sounds fun to rerun in 1 item killing the same guy for 104 hours for no loot? Most likely not

But ppl do

So why stop them lol

[dawn jackal]

i mean if its me and the boys it sure sounds fun

same reason i can click rock for 100 hours

[restive storm]

i miss trips with the boys man 🙁

game used to give soooo many hours of content

[brisk hill]

I miss gmaul rushing a random in caves

4 of your boys naked with a gmaul

[restive storm]

the old dress up as a rev bot and 1 hit the poor soul standing next to you

[brisk hill]

Classic

The only way they knew is becuase I didn’t have a bracelet

Bastards

[restive storm]

every1 laughed, now discord is empty cuz why would anybody be in discord to do stuff when we cant help each other in singles

[restive storm]

not 1ticking the bgloves on is crazy work ngl

[dawn jackal]

why was multi revs removed in the first place? I wasn't playing from 2019 - end of 2025

[restive storm]

"rwt and otting"

[dawn jackal]

or is it even removed idfk i hate the wildy

[restive storm]

do we think its helped?

[dawn jackal]

hmm ok now you just do doom to RWT

[restive storm]

theres more bots/rwters in revs now than before

cuz they cant die there

[brisk hill]

Prices of rev weapons & the trend would say the change had negative effects

[zinc galleon]

Because it was being used “nefariously” exact word used in blog - jagex overstepping as helicopter mom

[dawn jackal]

many such examples

[restive storm]

also see: how many people fondly talk about the old days of multi revs, vs # of people who say revs is a lot of fun now

[dawn jackal]

i guess whats worst case scenario if they turn the rev caves back

[restive storm]

we been saying that since they made the change lol

[dawn jackal]

worst case from jagex's perspective

[restive storm]

jmods themselves will tell you it was a bad change and wish they handled it differently, but in the same breath say they wont change it back

if any1 can figure that out for me

[dawn jackal]

they said the same thing about shit like birdhouses i suppose

idk i'm just a skiller but this is all interesting

[zinc galleon]

https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/revenant-caves-proposal?oldschool=1

[brisk hill]

2020

[restive storm]

6 years man

[brisk hill]

[restive storm]

and still unwilling to make changes to make the area more thriving

[brisk hill]

I made this point yesterday. I wonder if caves would still be held down as severely now that COVID isn’t a thing

[zinc galleon]

Tldr

[brisk hill]

& people are somewhat back to normal

[dawn jackal]

yea i was more wondering what the data they captured was that made it so they had to make changes

[restive storm]

the last sentence makes me so sad having gone to rev caves the past 3 years

[zinc galleon]

Me too, they’ve never given any hint or info in that way

[brisk hill]

Ask us lol

At the time Venezuela was warring for the worlds

Not every world

But a lot

[restive storm]

unironically my money is on bad press after the LATAM clan v rot etc war was REALLY popping off and osrs was in the news for it

[brisk hill]

Total lvl worlds were a rag fest & there was a lot of rwt happening

[dawn jackal]

venezuala goes to war over a rune sq shield i leave at nechs man

[restive storm]

those wars were honestly hilarious from a bystander POV man

[dawn jackal]

i wouldn't doubt it. i'd imagine decision makers at almost any company don't understand their product to the level of knowing how rev caves function but DO see the news article

[limber creek]

Add a tick delay below 30 wilderness to teleporting.
Add Multi Revenants.

[hard axle]

Yes, BUT people regearing and returning before the 2nd person dies is a pain in the ass.

[zinc galleon]

This is like “we can’t make fun and interesting content because it enables bad actors”, just don’t make anything ever then

[hard axle]

Ban teleports out of Wilderness, add 10-20 safespots that you must escape to and then you can TP out.

Hope this helps.

[brisk hill]

Exactly

If the same was applied to other bosses that are botted, would we have any bosses at all lol

[hard axle]

I do believe in having reasonable checks in place to make it easier on anti-cheat

Wilderness notoriously has no checks and the community will never let Wilderness have high level quests

[brisk hill]

Lock vestas etc behind wildy quests omg

[hard axle]

Even non-wilderness content struggles to have 80+ requirements btw

[zinc galleon]

Wilderness is about the journey not the destination 🥰

[dawn jackal]

what if the wildy was just smaller lol

does that help in any way

if the activities were much more compact and you had to pass risky areas to go do your thing

[restive storm]

i dont really miss getting BIG pks with friends in singles, the biggest things i remember and we still talk about is stuff like people planking on focuses, clan beef that was just kinda funny, people getting chanced to msbs, etc

the game was just fun to play w/ friends

[hard axle]

Depends how you do it. If you shrink 30+ proportionately down, it would be ass because it default is a buff to get to 30- to tp out unless TB.

If you remove 30- entirely and made it all 30+, it would be rewarding while needing to escape.

No cap, if you remove the ability to teleport, they can revisit the Ice Barrage immunity timer

[brisk hill]

You’d also have areas of the game that would leave bots untouched kind of like what we see with rogues chest bots

[dawn jackal]

i gotta do actual work now not just reply to my teams messages thanks everyone for learning me

[austere mulch]

The fact that the wildly needs so many special rules and restrictions just to be playable from a pvp aspect proves how failed the system is entirely

[dawn jackal]

still never gonna touch the wildy not my bag but its good to know what people who engage with the content think

[austere mulch]

It’s awful from a new player experience perspective to go into the wildy and all the sudden rules for everything changes in ways that aren’t clearly directed

Regarding teleports, pj timers, etc

[restive storm]

yea the fact that its all self inflicted over the last ~4 years in effort to make changes to give streamers more content is pretty bad

[austere mulch]

Game would benefit just from consistency more than anything imo

[restive storm]

before that it was normal lol

[nocturne solstice]

To be fair, its a failure of pvp. Any MMO with pvp has different conditions between pvp and pvm, even moreso because of gear and skills being balanced around raids that require you to deal out thousands of damage while taking minimal or you get insta wiped.

[brisk hill]

The only thing that didn’t make sense back then was the last hit log out shit

But I was pretty nooby those days still so maybe would make sense today

[nocturne solstice]

Best pvp games are games built for pvp. Adding pvp to a pve game always causes balancing issues.

[analog crow]

The most ridiculous thing is that you can't resize your spellbook icons in the wildy, like cmon

[brisk hill]

It worked for years until one was catered over the other

[austere mulch]

Bit of both I think. For example, saying “this weapon cannot be used in pvp” is much more clear than “this weapon can be used in PvP but it works slightly differently”

[restive storm]

i mean pvp worked totally fine for like 15 years, then they decided to make the pj timer change and it died overnight, so idk if its really power creeps fault lol

[brisk hill]

Power creep is only becuase nobody dies now l0l

Can just freeze & log

Gf no rm

[analog crow]

What do you mean angler won't overheal me when I'm in combat wtf

[restive storm]

it isnt like we didnt have crazy gear in game back then, people just didnt risk it cuz risking like a bil was crazy talk

[austere mulch]

Doesn’t help that each update just feels like a temporary patch and now wildy PvP feels like it’s being held together by loosely wrapped bandages

[analog crow]

It's on life support

[wispy current]

release deeper wildy. Its time

[brisk hill]

450 worlds & 92 wildy lvls

I’m excited as fk

[analog crow]

Untamed ocean is coming

[restive storm]

deeper wildy doesnt even change anything

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah I agree but I'd say your point is my point haha. Weapon works and is balanced around PVM but needs to be rebalanced for PVP making it all confusing and unbalanced.

[brisk hill]

Voidwaker was designed for PvP though

I would argue

Guaranteed damage

[nocturne solstice]

I kinda feel like it was too yeah.

[analog crow]

Using the same gear for pvm and pvp makes this inevitable

[brisk hill]

& it was only made that way because it’s harder today to kill ppl more than ever

[nocturne solstice]

Yup 100%

[brisk hill]

If you’re in a generic set

[analog crow]

You can already hit like, what? 48-48 with dds in max? Insane

[austere mulch]

51-51 now in complete max

[analog crow]

lmfao

what a shitshow

[austere mulch]

I really hated when rs2 added another digit, but something like that unfortunately works really well for PvP lol. Rather than just rounding everything out

[icy relic]

fundamentally no amount of baiting people into the wildy against their will is ever going to create content people want to do and instead only opens up shit to be abused and botted

[restive storm]

exact reason why i want no pj timer, so i can actually hit the pkers

[icy relic]

PJ timer is dumb in this day and age

[austere mulch]

I’d almost rather them have a clear branch of gear progression specifically for PvP and a branch for pvm and, within reason, limit which items can be used in both

[restive storm]

that sorta already exists

[zinc galleon]

Salad robes rise up

[restive storm]

i dont pk in my tob set

[austere mulch]

Yeah, just not concretely defined

[icy relic]

they kinda tried that in rs2 with the ancient warriors equipment but then statius warhammer ended up being giga bis for pvm

[restive storm]

i dont think it really needs to be

[austere mulch]

This for example

[restive storm]

its an MMO makes sense to use gear across places

[austere mulch]

Yeah that’s true

[icy relic]

WoW also added resilience as a stat on PvP equipment to make it strictly worse than PvM gear

[austere mulch]

Just more so I think it causes more problems than solutions when trying to balance around both

[icy relic]

another way games have gone about solving this problem

[austere mulch]

It’s like trying to shoot a basketball and kick a field goal at the same time

[icy relic]

but I don't think it really makes sense to have PvP progression

[austere mulch]

That’s cool

[icy relic]

how would you realistically control this progression without doing a 76k/bounty hunter crate type thing

where you aren't getting the gear that people hold but rather roll on a table

[brisk hill]

It does it’s just locked to bh

[restive storm]

i def wouldnt want BH stuff game-wide i meant moreso like traditional pking items, like tsotd, vw, crystal bofa etc

verssus tbow shadow and what not

[austere mulch]

Bh stuff I wouldn’t care in the slightest if it could be used exclusively in the wildy or in PvP worlds

[oblique mesa]

Add BH items and cosmetics to the collection log you cowards

[austere mulch]

Important to clarify that I mean using at all

[restive storm]

absolutely ludicrous that they arent in there

[austere mulch]

So being able to use it against npcs in the wildy

Or PvP worlds

[austere mulch]

Real

[restive storm]

thats a legit war crime by jagex

[broken flame]

trees done at 12:58 pm

[ionic tartan]

I feel like the PvP/PvM gear thing isn't that big of a problem in PvP overall:
"Gear progression" is already already balanced by the risk of using it, which is why you don't see everyone using giga-max for PvP worlds NH or in BH.

It's really just PvP in singles wildy where pkers are super safe even while using max gear (or people doing high risk fights like the one Oda streams).

[limber creek]

do you pvp? Like have more than 5k kills?

[austere mulch]

Let bh items be used anywhere in the wilderness, players and npcs, so that if a player doesn’t want to risk their Torva as an example but has Statius, they can take that to their wildy pvm

Also add bh items to log

[icy relic]

Jagex also can't decide whether pvp should be a equal skill/equal gear kind of ecosystem or if they want to continue incentivizing the cat-and-mouse dynamic

if you commit really hard to BH and opt-in PvP it could definitely be more successful

[nocturne solstice]

On OSRS? No

Definitely not 5k

[limber creek]

then your opinion is plagued via non experience.

[restive storm]

adding more gear to pvp solves literally 0 of our problems rn

[brisk hill]

True

[nocturne solstice]

So you think what I said is untrue? That the best pvp games are not games built for pvp? 🤔

[brisk hill]

But it’s apart of the overall issue

[limber creek]

Which is a big reason these types of updates get added. Everyone has a voice even if they have no clue of it.

[brisk hill]

Oh Jagex

[limber creek]

100% lmao.

[nocturne solstice]

Why do you feel that way?

Whats the best pvp game in your opinion? Just so I have a benchmark here for an exmeplar

[restive storm]

also pvp in runescape has literally been around since day 1

[brisk hill]

Was never added

[austere mulch]

Trying to balance across both pvm and PvP has caused so many issues though. Or at least bottlenecked reward space for pvm

For the longest time (even before shadow) magic damage % was big scary because they didn’t want to creep barrage in PvP

[brisk hill]

Agreed

Already existed at conception

[austere mulch]

Extended duration freeze in the ice sceptre didn’t go through because PvP

[brisk hill]

And existed everywhere in classic

[limber creek]

If you don't do osrs pvp what makes you think its not good lmfao. Just hearsay and reddit. You dont understand the insane skill ceiling or that unskulling gives you a massive advantage at what you keep on death. This game is as much designed around pvp as world of warcraft.

[brisk hill]

That’s in the game

[austere mulch]

No it’s not. The extended duration is from the base sceptre, not the ice crystal

[nocturne solstice]

Well that's not true, your criteria was do you do PVP in OSRS and have over 5k kills. Not if "you don't do pvp", people just have to meet your criteria to be allowed to have an opinion.

[limber creek]

shadow doesnt affect pvp as its a powered staff and we can't use those in pvp. Nice try though.

[austere mulch]

Ice sceptre originally had 30% longer freeze duration in the beta

[restive storm]

you just are iincorrect here man lol

[zinc galleon]

Osrs 😛 (circa 2019)

[limber creek]

At least one based in reality. You can have an opinion on everything and you probably will.

[austere mulch]

The mushpa upgrade is 3t longer freeze. The ice crystal is 10% accuracy increase for unfrozen targets - it was originally 11t longer freeze on ice barrage

You’re just wrong

[nocturne solstice]

I dont really understand what that means. What makes the 5k number significant to be "based in reality"?

[hard axle]

TM is correct btw, it was a 35% freeze increase

https://i.imgur.com/Ej4iZP2.png

[nocturne solstice]

I feel sorry for you

[hard axle]

mannn

[restive storm]

oh so u wanted like a 45s freeze

[austere mulch]

Where on earth did you come to the conclusion that I hinted even in the slightest that shadow affects PvP lmao

[hard axle]

that would be so nice for maiden

[restive storm]

yeah THAT isnt in teh game cuz pvp

but it IS still longer

[hard axle]

can we get Ice Kodai Wand

[restive storm]

also that long a freeze is just unnecessary

[austere mulch]

43 ticks* not seconds, but yeah. That was the original ice sceptre

[brisk hill]

That’s a long time

[limber creek]

because people who did one game of lms and died 3x in bounty hunters opinion are vastly different than someone who actually pvp's.

[austere mulch]

It would’ve made a meaningful impact to maiden meta which would’ve been fun to puzzle together

[restive storm]

https://tenor.com/view/cooooot-coooooot-be-bop-beeeeeeeesbooobee-gif-24860505

maiden meta

[austere mulch]

I think the target audience was the freezing graador crowd

🤣

[nocturne solstice]

So if someone doesnt have 5k kills you just assume they did one game of lms and died 3 times in BH? What if I had 300 kills? That still means I died 3 times in BH and quit pk forever?

[limber creek]

Your opinion still doesnt matter at 300 big dog.

[hard axle]

one point is that it would've powercrept Kodai to a huge extent as well

[austere mulch]

But yeah people, rightfully, complained that the extended freeze was too strong in PvP

[brisk hill]

It means you probably need some more experience in general in PvP

[restive storm]

god bless if u need to freeze graardor for 30s in the big 2026 you shouldnt be there

[austere mulch]

Only where freeze duration matters, but that’s true

[nocturne solstice]

But why not? You said its because you think I died in BH and played one game of LMS so I'm just trying to understand here at what point someone gets to have an opinion that matters and why.

[austere mulch]

Like slayer, you just want the dmg

[nocturne solstice]

That sounds fair but 5k just sounds like a weird number to choose.

[brisk hill]

It’s arbitrary but his point is sound

[limber creek]

If you dont understand then you shouldn't lol simple as. You're to new. 5k was an arbitrary number to show how caught up in just the number you would get.

Which you fell for exactly.

[brisk hill]

Less experienced players will have a different view point than more experienced players

[dawn jackal]

anime antagonist coded comms zom

[brisk hill]

That’s the main point

[nocturne solstice]

I dont think so, it seems far too high and being used as justification that no one else's opinion matters except theirs and their niche group of friends.

If it was a more realistic number I'd understand.

[restive storm]

1k would be totally fine, 5k overkil

[limber creek]

reddit tier arguementativeness coming from inexperienced players is the reason we get into these situations. Everyone thinks they deserve a voice even as the prey.

[brisk hill]

I understand. But I know people with 50k kills in their account. Do you think they share the same opinion as you w/ let’s say 300 kills since that’s the number they chose

[austere mulch]

While that’s true, going just based on the number of kills isn’t the best metric for judging experience. Eg. Someone who does 5k edge kills and 0 deep wildy / nh kills won’t have a reasonable opinion on the experience of NH

[dawn jackal]

i mean i'd argue if you don't have 5k+ ehp your opinon on skilling shouldn't matter much

so i get it

[nocturne solstice]

If it was a more realistic number then I'd know sure I'll have to get x amount of kills to be knowledgeable enough about pking. 5k is just really high and like, whats the actual difference between 1k kc experience and 5k kc experience?

At one point you're just doing the same thing over and over hopping words looking for someone to kill.

[limber creek]

i have no opinion on skilling because i dont care about it nor engage in it besides whats necessary for my account.

[brisk hill]

Experience is the difference

[restive storm]

tbf when i hit 5k i knew infinitely more than when i had 1k kc killing green drago nbots

[brisk hill]

^

[dawn jackal]

i think its very valid to have an opinion

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah but what is it that you learned.

[dawn jackal]

but its also important to understand your opinion is probably underformulated

or at the very least different than someone who has much more experience than you

[nocturne solstice]

Pkers keep saying people need to listen to them more, I'm trying to listen and hear what it is you're saying but all you guys are saying is that I'm too inexperienced to have an opinion.

So tell me your opinion and why?

[limber creek]

Add multi revenants
Add a 1t teleport delay below 30 wilderness.

[dawn jackal]

yea idk pingu isn't really pushing an opinion just asking guided questions

[restive storm]

primarily how deep the ecosystem got. At 1k kc i woulda thought pj timer wasa good idea cuz i only ever solo pked at green dragons. When I finally made the move to other places and made more friends to pk with i learned that the game had so much more to offer

[nocturne solstice]

Like what is the diff between 1k and 5k? What did you learn in that time?

[dawn jackal]

kinda getting hated for 0

[restive storm]

the amount of different things that could occur in the wildy, there was more action at less time intervals

sometimes you're the hammer sometimes youre the nail kind of thing

[nocturne solstice]

Thats fair and I understand that. It seems like it has to do as pker progression. Like you start at green dragon bots and at 5k you primarily do multi pk content?

[restive storm]

was all singles pking, i cant stand multi

[restive storm]

But yes that’s the standard process of really learning pking, at least it used to be. You didn’t used to be expected to run at w304 altar and lose a bil before you ever killed anyone

You learned step by step

Like when I joined my team I was a tber pre surge days and had zammy flames, they’d let me handle my own fights unless I really needed help then they’d jump in to save me

Made getting destroyed by meds way more manageable

[nocturne solstice]

I feel like I recall you or someone else saying the opposite 🤔

Learner pk started at multi pk with a mentor and learned there then moved on to singles and other content.

Dont mass ping mods

[limber creek]

Homie thinks you can learn everything about the wilderness in 300 kills is palpable.

[brisk hill]

5k is arbitrary. Take 5k and replace it for a veteran pker who’s been in wildy daily for years. The difference is the time spent doing the activity. Someone who has spent everyday doing something will have a different opinion than someone who does it once in a blue moon

It’s not a tangible “oh here is the difference” it’s moreso just their opinions on how the wildy works

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah sorry I stopped halfway to deal with that guy

[limber creek]

This. they still dont understand the number is just a number lmao.

[brisk hill]

A brand new pker cannot spot a bait

[cedar apex]

I have been pking multi combat for 20 years and have 50 ideas for saving multi combat. Who do I message..?

[brisk hill]

Someone who has been in the wild for years know when they are being baited

Just as an example

[limber creek]

Like do you know when to pre-orb from a rot bait that has you caught?

[nocturne solstice]

You can message here but dont mass ping mods.

[brisk hill]

Dude stop?

Don’t give them ideas

Don’t bring orbs …

[limber creek]

They probably have no clue of orbing

[cedar apex]

I sent a 4 paragraphs on message and it said it had blocked content. But it had no curse words or foul language.

[limber creek]

Or how anti-orbing works either

Thats a 5k kill piece of knowledge.

[dawn jackal]

i don't mean to speak for pingu but in the interest of moving discussion forward i don't think the questions were specifically about a 5k number - more of what changes between starting off as a pker and after having 2k hours invested

[restive storm]

my GOAT mintmadcow taught me everything i know about unskulling and orbing

[zinc galleon]

That might’ve been me, I’m usually a proponent of learning to pk with friends in multi

[limber creek]

minty is dope.

[nocturne solstice]

Do you want people to know about it and engaged with pking or are you going to use it to dismiss people's opinions?

I feel like teaching people and explaining why they're inexperienced is better no?

[nocturne solstice]

quite possible, might've been more than 1 dude

[restive storm]

not in particular when you're the one trying to mace them!

its why i dont go around telling every1 to turn on their skull prev when anti pking

[dawn jackal]

i'd argue part of the fun with an experience like osrs is being vastly confused and the process of gathering the info but maybe thats not everyones mindset

[brisk hill]

I stated earlier I learned to pk & got exposed to it by rushing in multi. Others who have pk’d since the inception of the game started where squintz is mentioning, like singles killing ppl at green drags.

It’s all : experience

[nocturne solstice]

fair fair

[cedar apex]

I have pked in the pure scene in multi combat for 20 years and would like to send my ideas to someone. As I tried to type out a four paragraph message. And the discord blocked the page from me posting it.

[dawn jackal]

like learning how to get the information is a part of my enjoyment joining specific communities etc

[restive storm]

p1stols pk all day series at green drags with like 1-2 friends may be the greatest osrs pking series of all time

literally the reason i made my pure/zerk

[limber creek]

This isn't about teaching anyone as im always open to teach anything to newcomers and quite often do teach people techniques if asked.
This is simply stating that you as an individual are not invested enough to have proper opinions on the state of the wilderness at large without a decent amount of hours put in. Im not just talking about the combat triangle here there are many layers, many strategies, and many many different outcomes dependant on location.

[restive storm]

2 friends, 1 tber 1 on ancients, running into other teams of 2 doing the same

[brisk hill]

It’s also not personal

[limber creek]

Exactly

[brisk hill]

It’s just the fact of the matter

[nocturne solstice]

Your four paragraph message also mass ping'd mods so thats bad, why not split it up a bit and rework it into a #1022203837265756231 rather than a letter type vibe?

[ionic tartan]

Multi pk is very different skill set (ie: pnecks). It was small team singles where you ease into learning the fundamentals of PvP, like gear/pray switching/freezes/etc.

[brisk hill]

I think everyone learns / learned differently

[restive storm]

tanking in singles is so soooo much more lenient for learners lol

[brisk hill]

Ik I learned better becuase I didn’t have the pressure of having to. Switch perfectly and catch a freeze in single

I had friends to help me

[dawn jackal]

wildy progression is a very interesting concept because its completely unguided

[brisk hill]

Yea it’s all trial by fire

[restive storm]

there is very little to none anymore with pj timer

[dawn jackal]

makes sense everyone starts at different places

[restive storm]

you'll just have people tell you "go w304 altar to find fights"

[limber creek]

Target swapping. Proper team communication. Proper plugins dependant on fight and style. Everything has layers. Just like non wilderness pvm. I have done a lot of chambers of xeric. But do i think my opinions are as useful as someone with 100's of more hours than me in there? Hell nah, im realistic. I know my knowledge is lacking behind theres even if its not on major points.

[restive storm]

while they have no idea what actually goes on there

[brisk hill]

Please fight 3 tiles away from multi I am not a bait I promise

[limber creek]

if ur new to pking dont go to 304 altar lol.

[cedar apex]

Aahhh okay. Thank you. I wrote a ten paragraph message about how 1 itemers are crashing 90% of pure clan fights and that every clan is pulling less and less every month and players are quitting. On a jagex YouTube podcast video. The next week they post an update with a teleport timer. So I felt like maybe what I said worked and would like to say more. I will try the method you said.

[restive storm]

that yellow line on your client? dont worry about it its ok to get frozen between that and the red, its ok 👍

[austere mulch]

Goes without saying that this is the state of wildy PvP, not necessarily the state of wildy as a whole, correct?

Because as someone who hasn’t actively engaged in PvP since 2017? Or so, I still frequent the wilderness and hold the opinion that it’s mostly dead as a whole. Outside of botting hotspots (wildy bosses lol), it’d exceptionally rare that I see another player or feel in a dangerous situation

[nocturne solstice]

Definitely rework it to be a bit more succint and less of a history lesson though 😅

[brisk hill]

That’s actually what it’s meant for. Those are the lanes you are meant to get frozen in!

[oblique mesa]

Surge pot spears must feel really good

[austere mulch]

I think it’s important to have distinction between the types of experience that exist within an area of the game

[nocturne solstice]

I know history recaps can be good for justification but it can be a bit too wordy for a general audience

[brisk hill]

Surge pot spear with 3 ticks extra freeze omg

[austere mulch]

In the context of PvP, that includes the different verticals

[restive storm]

icl hosky im sorry you put that effort in, but theres quite literally a 0% chance that its getting read by a jmod if its pvp related lo

[austere mulch]

In context of the wildy, that includes multiple things as well

[limber creek]

The opinions while hand in hand definitely differ dependant on which point of the content you engage in. I also wildy pvm fairly regularly while 4 iteming to fight any pker who happens upon myself.

[cedar apex]

All info is good info. lol. The video I commented on. Mod ayiza said we need to help the pure scene with QOL updates.

[restive storm]

your only hope is to send it to streamers and hope they pass it along

[brisk hill]

I love 4 item

Can’t wait for teleport changes fk me

[limber creek]

Like yes someone can wear giga and fight me. But im stilll in 4 item and can still generally get a chance. Not everyone is gonna wear giga lol.

Im happy anyday to fight risking a mil vs 100m+ lol

[cedar apex]

Not concerned with general audience. I want the ideas to be directly read by the same people that said they want to help us out. I’ve ran pure clans and the one I’m in currently just pullled 110 members last Sunday.

[brisk hill]

Dude all you need is korasi veng a maxer& they normally pod away

[nocturne solstice]

Very true, but if its not received then the info isn't being useful. Massive walls of text are a bit much for an instant messaging platform like Discord.

[oblique mesa]

Giant wall of text in a channel moving this fast will just washed away

[restive storm]

me as hell when someone i pass still has 50% spec or hits a surge pot when i get on a focus

no zank u i suck too bad

[nocturne solstice]

Bear in mind the Mods may still be restricted by polls. Even if they like your idea if it doesnt pass the polls it wont get implemented.

Casting a wide net and getting the entire community on your side and understanding the issue would be best.

[dawn jackal]

wildy stuff they just gotta implement

[restive storm]

i mean judging from yday they dont really care about the polls

they just whack in changes w/o a second thought

[brisk hill]

My bad beast

[nocturne solstice]

It does feel that way with the timer changes

[brisk hill]

Yeah there’s no feedback today at all that says they even hear us

It’ll likely go in next Wednesday gl to everyone

[nocturne solstice]

But why wouldnt you want the entire player base pushing for what you want?

[restive storm]

giant outcry over the timer? i sleep? HOLY MOLEYS? 😂 😂 😂 funniest thing ive ever heard 45 replys

[brisk hill]

l000l

[restive storm]

so over the current team man lol

[brisk hill]

Gz on cosmetic prayer bonus everyone we did it

Pack it in

[cedar apex]

Yeah I’m horrible with saying what I need to say in a short concise way. Hopefully they make the decision to talk to the leaders of these clans doing multi combat events. Rather than asking the entire runescape community what should happen with content they don’t even care to do XD

I have every pure clans ranks added and could get them in contact with us

[brisk hill]

Yep

[restive storm]

man they been ACTIVELY trying to talk to that community less and less for 2 years now

ever since they deleted the old discord and refuse to make a channel in here

[austere mulch]

I think they’ve done something similar in the past. What came from it though… uhhh 💀

[brisk hill]

Brother clan leaders & Mods have interacted for decades

[restive storm]

they dont want to hear it lo

[brisk hill]

It’s not like they don’t know how to get ahold of them

They just don’t

[austere mulch]

They’ll occasionally do the same with pvm clans too, but it’s been a few years since they last did one

[limber creek]

Better ask woox about how we should update multi this year. The pkers will love that.

[austere mulch]

At least a more monitored/intentional outreach

[nocturne solstice]

I reckon the peope they contact is all hush hush until the updates hit

[brisk hill]

Yall remember when woox won DMM with a bug lol

[limber creek]

And they didnt wanna pay out so mod ash had to

[nocturne solstice]

Like how before big pvm updates are released a lot of content creators or whatnot have playtested the content but cant say anything.

[restive storm]

dont make me get the purespam tweet out again

[nocturne solstice]

Same with sialing iirc

[brisk hill]

Yep

[austere mulch]

Tickeating is an accepted feature at this point, Jagex should’ve known to check if the fog could be tick ate

💀💀

[brisk hill]

Get it out!

[nocturne solstice]

I wouldnt call it a bug tbh, a bit of a loophole

definitely shouldnt of capped the fog dmg

[brisk hill]

No he was dq’d for bug abuse

[austere mulch]

Yeah more an oversight than anything

[cedar apex]

Idk mod ayiza said to the ceo that they should work hard to help the pure scene. But asking a community where 99% of them don’t even work on that content or do it. Doesnt make sense. They should be reaching out to the people directly being affected by it. Before one item rag and 99 defense 90 combat accounts crashed every event. Every clan pulled 50-100 each. Roughly 10-15 clans. Now we struggle to pull 30-50 (outside of the clan I’m in and EOP).

[brisk hill]

👍

Thats the verbiage they used

[nocturne solstice]

fair

[restive storm]

2 sweaty to find it, but TLDr: content creators in disc w/ jmods. "ive never been more excited for the future of the wildy" date: 2021, before it started dying off a break neck pace w/ all the changes

[limber creek]

Forget multi what about ironmen boys! you think they're liking sailing woo!

[brisk hill]

Ohh yeah

https://x.com/ianspam/status/1407057835695947776

Ian / PureSpam (@ianspam)

Got invited alongside creators to hear some of the contents within the Wildy Blog and survey results revealed later this week. I am very pleased. @JagexAyiza @OldSchoolRS <3

For the first time in forever there are big strides towards a positive clear sense of direction, excited!

X · Jun 21, 2021, 7:28 PM

The dream team

[restive storm]

half those people dont even play the game or go in the wildy anymore man

[brisk hill]

Sad ain’t it

[limber creek]

Look at all those multi pkers!

[restive storm]

like what were they doing in there

[brisk hill]

But at least they shaped PvP

[cedar apex]

There used to be 15 clans pulled 50-80 every fight and massive clusters would happen. Then the pure version or ROT came and they mace every clans fight. They hit it with one item and non stop return witb crystal bow. They bring maxed defense accounts that have the same combat to every fight. Multi logged with 2-3 times the amount of people as everyone else.

[limber creek]

Oh wait there isn't any

[main kestrel]

swede maybe?

or is that too long ago

[brisk hill]

Some of those guys did clan at one point

But long ago

[restive storm]

god someone needs to make a list of all the awful updates post tweet date

[brisk hill]

Hahahaha it would be disgusting

[restive storm]

holy that would be a train wreck

[brisk hill]

Fk it. How should I display the data

[restive storm]

pros cons list for sure

[nocturne solstice]

Oh yeah 2021 was the gear nerf for wildy

[restive storm]

for maximum meme-worthiness

[nocturne solstice]

Like black dhide and dinhs

[restive storm]

pj timer

[cedar apex]

Has anyone currently in here been in a multi combat clan that’s typing right now?

[restive storm]

is the big one

[limber creek]

Right here brother. Actively.

[brisk hill]

Lmfaooo the only pro I can think of: no longer needing a sword in hand to cut webs in wild

[nocturne solstice]

A lot of deadman stuff in 2021 too

[restive storm]

ship it

[brisk hill]

S/o Jagex for that game changing update fr

[restive storm]

were talking main game here

the thing thats gone ignored

for the better part of 5 years

[limber creek]

deadmans cool and all but the main game is kinda around 365 days a year

[nocturne solstice]

Oh I know, I just mean its weird the tweet said wildy good and a lot of the content that came was deadman

im just looking at the list of updates in 2021

[restive storm]

yeah id like to enjoy my other 50 weeks of th year as well

[brisk hill]

Link?