imagine we design 16 different ways and places to train your accounts but you go to one of them and stay there for 80% of your entire journey
#game-update
dawn jackal
that's almost every single skill?
meager flame
how do you think that feels while you're doing it
exactly its something that they manage to get wrong
almost every single time
narrow folio
No ones forcing you to stay there just like no ones forcing anyone to do barbarian fishing to 99
meager flame
it actually makes no sense
narrow folio
Thats why theres a variety with different afkness and rates
meager flame
they cram tons of design into your first couple of hours that you never see again
dawn jackal
i wanted to compare it to something people do
meager flame
and then you just sit there forever with the one thing they added at like level 70
cold linden
I found an odd bug with maniacal monkey hunting post game update. If you are the only one in the cave, the monkeys will slowly all congregate as far away from the player as possible (effectively nullifying the method). The only way to get them to disperse is to run down to where they are all hiding off screen. I have videos but I'm not sure If I can attach here. I did do an in game bug report.
tender harness
you cannot lol. glide to lode is not a valid comparison in any universe
narrow folio
The click intensity and focus is not there
restive storm
honestly prob only .1% of people glide anyway
ember token
I found an odd bug with maniacal monkey hunting post game update. If you are the...
i saw a reddit post of someone having issues with the monkeys not being there
so you're not the only one
narrow folio
Im a proud 100 glide kc club myself
restive storm
Im a proud 100 glide kc club myself
im sry to hear that
nocturne solstice
I found an odd bug with maniacal monkey hunting post game update. If you are the...
Its known and being worked on
meager flame
oh shit
narrow folio
My wrists will never be the same..
meager flame
do we get a second day of iron bill and his vanishing stock
tender harness
I refuse to touch glide again
cold linden
Its known and being worked on
oh sweet, I didnt see this earlier
narrow folio
How many dam times i forget ONE crate and have to backtrack at the very end cause i didnt notice
meager flame
sailing combat saved
i get 1 minute this week of getting cannonballs from bill
instead of 30 seconds
peak
hard axle
No ones forcing you to stay there just like no ones forcing anyone to do barbari...
only because jagex are too cowardly to make people skill for unlocks
tender harness
early gwenith was like
ope we changed hitboxes
oops we changed hit boxes again
oops we reverted hitboxes to three iterations ago
hard axle
early gwenith was like
*ope we changed hitboxes*
*oops we changed hit boxes agai...
u forgot a shadow fix
that fucked it as well
meager flame
i just dunno why their pacing is built like they've never seen a clock before
like lol
narrow folio
Trials unlock both CE and wind catcher so
meager flame
why would you develop several locations and places to skill
and then let people blow through all of them almost immediately
and have nothing left to unlock after that
tender harness
instead of gryphon CAs
lets add CAs to cuda trials
idle rapids
no fun glitches allowed 
meager flame
it would be so much better if they spaced it out more
the even crazier part is that they had the exp curve part of the pacing on point
they did a great job
nocturne solstice
I imagine like most of OSRS, you unlock it and come back to it.
meager flame
i mean
why would you come back
most of the methods are just like
low exp junk
i guess if you're a clogger
meager flame
but even the clogging thing doesn't go very far
meager flame
thats really just about getting the salvage
dawn jackal
when everyone's goal is to get 99 how does the skill not degenerate to 1-2 methods
meager flame
but outside of the clog theres actually not really any good salvage spots that give you things you should really care about
hard axle
why would you develop several locations and places to skill
dude, like half of the islands are just not worth it to even plant a bottled storm boat on it
😭
meager flame
it would be different if the salvage locations were meaningfully different and inherently valuable
nocturne solstice
I wouldnt want thee to be meaningfully different
meager flame
so you would come back to the level 45 spot or whatever
nocturne solstice
That sounds like a real pain in the ass
meager flame
because it gives you something only that spot has
dawn jackal
is that really fun?
hard axle
That sounds like a real pain in the ass
we said that this would be the case for sailing
meager flame
but instead they kinda just dumped junk and minor alchs on you
hard axle
it's either going to be meta with a direct tp or complete ass if u have to sail to it each time
nocturne solstice
They dropped some GP and a clog at each one
round lintel
I give you an example, I refused to buy the cannons so I went salvaging from 87 to 99 I did 1m xp at barracudas and about 6M in salvaging and I only got one cannon
meager flame
i mean i think its at least interesting/compelling if you have a real reason to do something
nocturne solstice
Personaly havent ached much if at all with merchant ships which is a nice "upgrade" from the lower tiers.
meager flame
how do you think fishing would feel if you actually just pulled up boots and the occasional item to alch instead of fish
that's salvage
nocturne solstice
I think people would prefer that to fishing
Since rn its the same as salvaging (Afk then drop inv) but 0 profit
meager flame
think about what that actually means though
dawn jackal
and then let people blow through all of them almost immediately
i'm kinda confused on what the alternative to this still is. why would i want to fish lobsters at 97 fishing or w/e ?
meager flame
now fishing as a skill does nothing
we don't have the foods we can get from fishing
nocturne solstice
That doesnt make any sense? People do training methods or money making methods.
meager flame
building a skill to get exp that doesn't actually do anything is probably
nocturne solstice
If they wanted it to "mean something" people go fish anglers or something. Sailers can do deep sea trawling.
meager flame
i guess in contention for worst skill in the game
sailing isn't alone but
things probably should matter and do something
round lintel
I personally would have liked a slower catch but steady place to sea trawling to what we currently have
nocturne solstice
This doesnt feel like a genuine argument at all
meager flame
idk how
narrow folio
we don't have the foods we can get from fishing
What?
meager flame
do you think getting exp to see your sailing icon number increase and for no other reason is a positive addition
nocturne solstice
You make a bad comparison (Fishing to sailing) then go along with it when its not true.
meager flame
What?
we were talking about how salvage doesn't actually meaningfully give you anything so you never go back to any of the spots
and i compared it to fishing if you just never got fish
narrow folio
Oh I get it now
nocturne solstice
Thats an untrue statement too, you feel that way because you disregard things that go against your point of view.
Like the HA profit, regular straight up gold profit, and clogs
meager flame
you would just upgrade to new exp rate pool #7
nocturne solstice
Oh and the big ole unique at merchant, dragon cannon barrel
meager flame
and it wouldn't do anything for the game
the dragon cannon barrel to do what
kill npcs right
nocturne solstice
For ironmen there does seem to be a lot of reason to go to old salvages
nocturne solstice
barracuda have medium clues
See? Thats you being obtuse and purposefully disregarding anything that goes against your point.
dawn jackal
isn't this more a critique of skilling and not sailing?
meager flame
hopefully (probably?) it will eventually be different for sailing
but right now its basically a bad way to do anything at best lol
theres like
some unique farming stuff
and i would say that the fish are also good
which is funny since its not fishing but lol
thats kinda the extent currently
nocturne solstice
Your entire perspective feels weird like someone that hasn't played osrs or games in general.
You say its bad you can breeze through and have no reason to go back to lower level content.
You are told that this is how OSRS works and people do go back to old content for uniques or other reasons (Powermining iron, GoTr, etc etc)
You say this is not true and ask for uniques for sailing.
You get a bunch of uniques from the different tiered salvaging and say they don't count.
It just feels incredibly insincere to me.
meager flame
Your entire perspective feels weird like someone that hasn't played osrs or game...
yeah i do think its bad if the only reason to go back and do almost anything in sailing is for a collection log slot
do you think thats good lol?
because the items dont even do anything
nocturne solstice
See? You're ignoring stuff again right there. I just told you about the coral seeds, tree seeds, and clue scrolls.
Those are only in lower tier salvaging
round lintel
tbh i wouldnt mind going back, what I dont like is how rare they made important things from salvaging
nocturne solstice
If people want an afk method to farm clues well there it is. Afk method for coral seeds? there it is too.
round lintel
so you have to get most of your xp from them
narrow folio
I think most irons passively get them while getting xp then have no reason to go back
Because the rates are not good
meager flame
sure okay they have a bad clue scroll method but at least its afk
meager flame
im not sure what tree seeds have to do with this
narrow folio
Hardly need that much cotton or hemp
nocturne solstice
Coral, the herblore material
meager flame
and coral and the fish i actually acknowledged as the only things in sailing currently that are like
potentially worth it for real as far as you continuing to do other things in game
narrow folio
The gathering rate is so slow and arma brews arent so meta irons will go out of their way for them rn
round lintel
and coral and the fish i actually acknowledged as the only things in sailing cur...
Funny enough all coral seeds can be obtained at aquanites
narrow folio
And theres a random chest out there you can thieve from anyway
icy relic
only needed like 10ish coral to make 500 doses
meager flame
its kind of like the magic potions nobody will use because they drop other stats that actually matter
icy relic
it's just a luxury option
meager flame
so its heart or bust a lot of the time
icy relic
arma brew is good at zuk healers because you don't need magic levels anymore
but you can't just substitute range potions for them for the waves
nocturne solstice
So we've got.
Super hunter
Super fishing
Haemostatic dressing
Armadyl brew
Regarding potions from coral
meager flame
i think combat potions that reduce your ability to actually use multiple combat styles are often not going to work
icy relic
nobody asked for any of those and they didn't change the herb meta either
narrow folio
Guarantee you no irons like, well I should stock more arma brews let me go back to salvaging
icy relic
jagex putting things in for the sake of it just to "avoid powercreep" is so desperate at this point and people can see it
nocturne solstice
Werent they voted in? Thats people asking for those no?
meager flame
because most of the content people really care about in this game basically has you hybrid or tribrid
icy relic
we didn't pitch them
meager flame
so a potion that just kinda dumps on what you're trying to do
icy relic
jagex pitched them and we voted it in because why not
nocturne solstice
When do we pitch anything
meager flame
isn't gonna be great
icy relic
not expecting that would be ALL we get
round lintel
The antibleed option is really not something anybody uses
meager flame
brews are a good exception because theres an interesting trade off there between total healing available and inventory space
but if its let me boost my magic or range and i just turn my boosts off for the other two styles
icy relic
and I do like these potions existing in the game fwiw
meager flame
thats just bad 99.99% of the time
icy relic
it is just that the scope of offerings is underwhelming
nocturne solstice
The antibleed option is really not something anybody uses
I imagine like a lot of things before, its expensive and doesn't have that many use places (just vard?). It'll get more use as we get more content that causes bleed.
narrow folio
Trawlings the only content irons would likely go back to because the catch rate is so high and the fish are really good
meager flame
idk if the dressing is even that great of an idea
just because of what it means for bleed damage/inventory management
usually bleeds are applied when you mess up and otherwise avoidable
and you messing up just costs some food in your inventory
so idk if a potion to prevent that really makes a lot of sense
nocturne solstice
What does it mean for bleed/inventory management? It seems like a simple exchange of less supplies to deal with a specific mechanic you have problem with on a boss.
meager flame
its generally a tool used by jagex to punish you
and it seems like they're just going to make it more like poison
where you usually can't really avoid poison and the whole game is bringing something to prevent it to begin with
and thats not how they use bleeds at all
nocturne solstice
It could end up that way sure
narrow folio
It could be the niche like in vardorvis that its good if you mess up but if you dont then its unnecessary
round lintel
It could be the niche like in vardorvis that its good if you mess up but if you ...
But even then lets say you get hit by an axe, you bleed for 20-24 damage? thats just one hard food.
nocturne solstice
Oh yeah do the uhh stalker things have em too? The stranglevine deer things
nocturne solstice
You're right, I waa thinking moreso that bleed is on other stuff like regular mobs too so it might not just be exclusively for niche bosses.
round lintel
Maybe in the new quest (maybe a new boss) with crazy bleed mechanics
or raids 4
as of our current content there is really no use to go out of your way to make them
narrow folio
But even then lets say you get hit by an axe, you bleed for 20-24 damage? thats ...
And bandages have 3 uses
Also its not engaging bringing it to turn off a normal mechanic like poison
U just hit it and its done. On a timer. Same with antifire.
meager flame
yeah but then it gets weird if you can turn off the punishment mechanic when the right answer was really to just not mess up next time
like do you even want players to be able to do that
narrow folio
And then they release something to be annoying with it just so it can get used
meager flame
i mean they could make it super interesting like
nocturne solstice
I could see bleed coming in more with the new vampyre questline 🤔
meager flame
somehow the bleed jumps to a nearby target including other players or bosses when it gets removed or you die
and does more damage over time
so you were trying to figure out how long you could tank the bleed before you gave it back to the boss or whatever
nocturne solstice
I dont see it as engaging but a restriction. Forcing you to take less supplies to deal with a boss mechanic. Like whiperer needing that stupid black stone and "having" to bring venator bow for the ghosts.
meager flame
that would be an interesting way for them to let you turn your food into dps
and maybe people wouldn't be so pissed about eating on a boss like that
but stuff like that would probably be for like
a raid boss or something pretty engaging
round lintel
I dont see it as engaging but a restriction. Forcing you to take less supplies t...
yeah i hate whisp
nocturne solstice
same bro
meager flame
it also thematically doesn't really make sense as a bleed but lol
nocturne solstice
Bleed does have a unique mechanic of doing more damage if you move. If it was applied during a boss mechanic where you needed to move like as an example, huey waves, it could lead into interesting play. Inexperienced players would move a lot and take more dmg while more experience players could wave skip and save resources.
meager flame
they could steal the idea and make it like a boss that cuses you and you have some item that can decurse
so you could bounce the debuff around between you, other people and the boss
nocturne solstice
I think your mechanic would work well as disease
which works out since we already have sanfews and stuff to counter it
meager flame
they could also just go with some like
round lintel
I think it would have been better if you could add the coral as charges to your character to inflict bleed to a target
meager flame
insane metal idea to make it make sense as a bleed
like you stab yourself with an item and it also hurts the boss
nocturne solstice
With it already being a herb ingredient I only really see it in making more potions tbh rather than a weapon charge.
It could work on a voodoo boss
Would be interesting
meager flame
basically a boss where you make yourself the bosses voodoo doll
lmao
you might get some really dark references when people talk about something like that though so they might not want to do it
round lintel
With it already being a herb ingredient I only really see it in making more poti...
not a weapon charge but a new mechanic u drink the pot and have 1/20 chance to deal a fatal blow to your target and make it bleed
then the more you make ur target move the more it bleeds
aka gwd
icy relic
it's what RS3 did with weapon poison
meager flame
like you pick one member of your raid and they jump in some void zone that makes them attackable by everyone else
and they have to tank all of you hitting them
bc its killing the boss
icy relic
you drink the weapon poison and it makes your attacks inflict poison
meager flame
just something nuts like that
nocturne solstice
not a weapon charge but a new mechanic u drink the pot and have 1/20 chance to d...
A damage buff would definitely be interesting. I kinda see it more like a type of weapon poison though? but idk, a temporary buff like you said would definitely allow it to be more powerful
meager flame
this is how they bring pvp back to osrs
mid raid fight you have to 1v1 the guy you're raiding with
for a damage buff
icy relic
but we can't have that because it's powercreep
meager flame
definitely implement an mvp system
round lintel
A damage buff would definitely be interesting. I kinda see it more like a type o...
4 doses 1 min per dose at 1/20 chance is powerful but not op
nocturne solstice
If they made it every hit did a fixed amount of dmg to the boss that could be a very interesting mechanic.
icy relic
everything is just held back by "oh we can't make anything do more damage" currently unless it is a rare item gated behind a 100+ hour grind
meager flame
the funny thing is that power creep is the answer
at some point you just have to go up
and a lot of their problems currently are related to weird situations where the long term planning wasn't all there at first
so the ceiling is too low
icy relic
there's been a ton of powercreep in the game already
meager flame
and theres no space
round lintel
Besides there arent many bosses that move alot in the game gwd mostly and is soo boring you are always trying methods were gwd bosses dont even touch you, Bandos 6:0 - 9:0, Zilly hit and run, Zammy scobow spec, Arma step under or redx
meager flame
like the uh
icy relic
there is just this lingering issue where standards are inconsistently applied
meager flame
aquanite tendon or whatever its called
that thing sucks because it and like 5 other shields are stuck underneath the buckler
icy relic
so some things make the overall power level lurch forward by a ton
meager flame
and theres not enough space for them all
icy relic
while jagex is desperately trying to keep power out of other areas to a fault
meager flame
so realistically the buckler should probably be a lot better if its supposed to be the best
so that they can use the space below it
icy relic
buckler is not that good either
round lintel
Buckler should be taken out of cox, same as door
icy relic
you can powercreep the offhand space to hell and back by making it only benefit crossbows and buckler would STILL be bis for chinning
icy relic
Buckler should be taken out of cox, same as door
agree
meager flame
they could also take another approach where like
you could add the tendon to the buckler
icy relic
letting the game be held back so much by CoX's precedent is awful
meager flame
and kinda bend around the issue
icy relic
prayer scrolls gated behind a raid is a terrible idea as well
meager flame
that works sometimes
icy relic
and CoX having a lot of mediocre items
but they're technically still "bis raid drops" so now they're sacred
round lintel
We can argue dhcb should also be taken out, as any other dragonbane is faaar easier to get
meager flame
the biggest problem with cox and the loot
is that its working so well
that honestly
icy relic
kodai is ass too for the rarity tier it's on
meager flame
they probably shouldn't change anything
even though you can come up with a lot of really valid criticisms for the cox table
its hard to change something thats working
icy relic
I personally disagree with that
round lintel
Kodai is the worst megarare item
meager flame
i mean think about it
cox is like 9 years old
all of the items are holding up great value for what they actually do
tons of people do the raid
idk
they probably are worried they'd mess it up
round lintel
cox is like 9 years old
thats the problem, they think that just because is doing good it doesnt need love but it does
icy relic
people are stockholm syndromed
cox is shit and everyone complains about toilet paper drops
round lintel
if not we would still have knives, t-axes, harpoon and sword
icy relic
they do it out of necessity and the drops are so rare
meager flame
at least with those items you can just pick them out and say like
yeah this is garbage idk how this is even on a raid loot table lol
the stuff left in cox is all useful though
icy relic
they have had multiple opportunities to clean up the loot table
nocturne solstice
Other people didnt want that iirc, it was voted i think 🤔
meager flame
yeah i think it was a vote where most people actually did want that but it was like an opinion poll
and it wasn't like
a super majority of people
and jagex just kinda said no
torpid delta
ye
torpid delta
gottem
but ye i also remember from that summit when they talked about it
they were upfront like "we don't want to move them but if you guys really really want to we can"
nocturne solstice
It wasnt an overwhelming majority so i understand
meager flame
idk why they really said that
it was a golden opportunity to do something that they should've been working on for a long time
nocturne solstice
I imagine the people that payed a lot of money and spent a long long time grinding out dclaws at CoX wold have been upset.
meager flame
yeah i mean i wouldn't have been super happy about it since thats where i got my claws but at the same time
round lintel
tbh burning claws are a pain to get, but not for everyone of course, for me im over 2k tds and only 1
meager flame
idk if theres ever been a better chance to reduce that loot pool
nocturne solstice
oof rough
round lintel
but they sure are a better option than d claws almost everywhere
meager flame
thats the other thing
nocturne solstice
I dont think it matters that much, they can change it on a whim. It's not like content is locked in permanently as is.
meager flame
man burning claws should be able to be combined with d claws
its so weird that the free spec weapon ended up kind of out competing the other two dps spec options
nocturne solstice
They can at any point in time split the loot pool to normal mode and challenge mode if they wanted to
meager flame
thats probably a harder choice for them than you might think
true talon
Fact the ancestral table has 5 items on it is cringe
meager flame
right now regular cox and cm cox are somehow tuned to be
super similar to each other in terms of loot output
round lintel
im almost 1k raids combined with CMs on my main and havent finished Anc
meager flame
where you can reasonably go with some variation of either mode and not feel like you're just wasting your time
round lintel
what can I expect on my iron?
meager flame
but if they were to change that
true talon
im almost 1k raids combined with CMs on my main and havent finished Anc
its spooned but cursed
meager flame
idk prices of items would probably go crazy and they would probably end up defining a meta
where you just only did cms or only did regs
true talon
Actually got more mega rolls than ancestral
round lintel
its spooned but cursed
2tbows and 4 megarares is insane
hard axle
friend was explaning to me how cannons work and it's wild
meager flame
at least you're not like me
all uniques 2 dusts 2 pets
0 kits
idk how its even possible
hard axle
not only are you rolling the damage, but you're also rolling the damage reduction percentage
like wtf
true talon
Then this guy XD
round lintel
its spooned but cursed
round lintel
Then this guy XD
omg thats awful
true talon
hi Jagex can we break down ancestral dupes into cloth an create the piece we missing? k thanks.....
meager flame
like it's insane how bad cannons are
sailing cannons or dwarf cannons
they're actually both insane
hard axle
sailing cannons or dwarf cannons
sailing
round lintel
hi Jagex can we break down ancestral dupes into cloth an create the piece we mis...
tbh at this point with oathplate being the way it is, they could revisit places like gwd and add shard drops to make items
meager flame
yeah the sailing cannons and damage while sailing in general feels like a fever dream
round lintel
for example Torva shards
meager flame
the dwarf cannon is more interesting in weird ways to abuse it as a lower level player
hard axle
tbh at this point with oathplate being the way it is, they could revisit places ...
you know what the solution for this is, right?
introduce a new melee gear that eats torva components
doesn't matter what
i was hoping oathplate would do this
round lintel
you know what the solution for this is, right?
Yeah but they wont
meager flame
tbh
meager flame
blood torva wasted the easiest layup of a torva theme ever
that could've been a vampire upgrade set
hard axle
hi Jagex can we break down ancestral dupes into cloth an create the piece we mis...
u know that next mage upgrade will absolutely do this
meager flame
from like
hard axle
waiters always win
meager flame
idk some high level vampire boss
hard axle
blood torva wasted the easiest layup of a torva theme ever
yah
meager flame
i mean i know why they went for it blood is edgy right and osrs players generally like that
round lintel
its spooned but cursed
+1 tbow, elder maul, claws. +1 dhcb, +1 door, +1 dext +6 arcanes, +2 swords +1 knives, +1 t axes.
meager flame
but that thematic is tied really strongly to something they're gonna need reward ideas for lol
should've probably been like
an ancient variant for torva from dt2 stuff
true talon
u know that next mage upgrade will absolutely do this
ve literally been waiting for this over going for ancestral. it still hasnt come 🙁
dreamy tulip
most recent update broke maniacal monkeys hunter method, they seem to disappear and your traps time out if you're alone on the world
meager flame
im actually really worried im going to do that to an iron i know
true talon
full ancestral is rarer than tbow
meager flame
i want the ancestral kits that won't drop and im going to dunk on this random guy thats been trying to get a tbow for like
idk how many years
true talon
its crazy
round lintel
tbh I think Torva is replaced mostly because is not that accesible, Nex is a pain to do
nobody enjoys nex
meager flame
nex corp and the nightmare
need to be an update
like the unholy trinity of how it can go wrong
meager flame
pnm is an idea that should probably get applied to nex and corp
where they get like a hard mode solo version thats actually kinda fun
to replace whatever is going on with reg nex and corp
im also pretty sure im the 2342342342434th person to suggest that
but idk if jagex has ever really replied to it
meager flame
did we ever find out what the 60 attack gm did to get the nightmare speed times
i think it was 60 attack anyways
round lintel
possibly venging and clawing
shadow for pillars
and surge pots
maybe spellbook swap for death charge
meager flame
it just seems interesting because people honestly kind of struggle with that one when they don't have like the greatest gear
round lintel
icy relic
regular nightmare or PNM?
meager flame
they got a gm helm with 60 attack
icy relic
oh
meager flame
yeah lol
hard axle
full ancestral is rarer than tbow
If they add a new slash melee set that eats both torva + oathplate, and a new mage set that eats ancestral + virtus for bonus stats
the expected hours cuts in half 
and benefits mains too 
I still want a super virtus set 
zenith pike
I still want a super virtus set <a:amiruspandayawn:794088718650703883>
Subvertus
hard axle
narrow folio
Add stab set then we can get avernic plate
chrome lantern
TDs among the worst content in the game, I would rather get a new VW from scratch than do TDs
nocturne solstice
Iunno I'd say corp, nm, and even cerb are way way worse than TDs
tender harness
If they add a new slash melee set that eats both torva + oathplate, and a new ma...
can we add a new corp shield that eats all the other corp shields that also makes you mitigate 90% of damage 
chrome lantern
Nah moons is way out of line with where it should be and they wasn’t an issue with progression before that either
chrome lantern
Iunno I'd say corp, nm, and even cerb are way way worse than TDs
NM is really good content with horribly designed drop rates
nocturne solstice
Pain to get to, pain to do, pain rewards
chrome lantern
Cerb was absolutely fine after they added arclight working against it and the recent changes even were unneeded
Corp is fine
nocturne solstice
All are painful and I would rather do 1000 TDs than 5 of any of the 3 i mentioned
chrome lantern
Moons and TDs are currently my opinion perhaps the worst two pieces of pvm content in the game imo
chrome lantern
Maybe if you include orbs and contracts existing those could be mentioned
Moons has many things wrong with it that I have discussed many times
For one thing there’s a practically zero skill ceiling, it doesn’t actually teach relevant skills, and the gear is way unbalanced for what the content actually is
https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1380928210937581770
I have many thoughts to improve it immensely starting with these
And I have discussed it many times
true talon
For one thing there’s a practically zero skill ceiling, it doesn’t actually teac...
it teaches you how to dodge nados on ice, teaches you how to walk behind the shield for inferno and perfectly face a target to counter every 1 tick, it teaches you how to step back/verzik walk.
chrome lantern
it teaches you how to dodge nados on ice, teaches you how to walk behind the shi...
Where are there any mechanics remotely like those in the next 1000 hours of gameplay
From where you do moons
Nadoes are nothing like any other content’s dodgeable mechanics
true talon
yea nado's thing is a shot in the dark lol
chrome lantern
It doesn’t teach shield because you don’t attack
true talon
since you just sit in middle an ignore lighting the fire
nocturne solstice
I dont feel like every piece of content needs a "Skill ceiling" where more mechanics happen instead of just a flat "learn this to beat it". PM does introduce players to mechanics and gives them a free "safe" place to practice them like the nados Tassili mentioned or getting timing right to reach to jaguars at blood.
chrome lantern
I could see the verzik argument but why make it 6t then
true talon
pray and drink prayer pot
chrome lantern
you think barrows teaches you anything?
No, and I don’t claim it does
nocturne solstice
I dont think mole is bad for example for having 0 skill ceiling.
chrome lantern
But people do for moons
nocturne solstice
Its just a silly boss
chrome lantern
Anything you can learn at moons has many better places to learn it
That do better jobs
true talon
Doesnt matter, the content is good. the gear is fine all it really does allow you to skip barrows
chrome lantern
People act like there were no bosses to learn earlygame before scurrius
They just ignore that Sarachnis, DKs, and Gotillas have been doing that for years
nocturne solstice
Like what at that level? The only thing I really remember for the jaguar mechanic is Verzik. Nados probably CG but PM is before CG
chrome lantern
Doesnt matter, the content is good. the gear is fine all it really does allow yo...
Nobody is skipping barrows for moons, if you say you’re doing moons without barrows people laugh at you
true talon
They just ignore that Sarachnis, DKs, and Gotillas have been doing that for year...
dks was literally done by safe spotting rex and killing each kill 1 by 1 and not having to pray more than one
chrome lantern
And it was never worth going for karils or ahrim’s
true talon
And it was never worth going for karils or ahrim’s
ahrims was worth it before blood bark and blue moon
chrome lantern
It was not
true talon
you had mystic ahrims an ancestral
chrome lantern
Because you didn’t even bring it to cox
meager flame
but it felt good to get it
true talon
right because it was heavy lol
meager flame
but yeah most people didn't want to run around in robes that weighed so much it was like
the only time we've ever cared about equip weight before the new boss
chrome lantern
I skipped ahrim’s for virtus long before moons existed and was completely fine
meager flame
although these days you probably dont care about ahrim
since agility doesn't suck now
chrome lantern
Did hundreds of high level ToA and a bunch of cox with an enchanted robe top
meager flame
you can surely get away with bringing it
chrome lantern
Like what at that level? The only thing I really remember for the jaguar mechani...
Nadoes don’t teach cg because they work completely differently. If you tried to apply moons to CG nadoes you would die instantly
Nothing in the game is like them
meager flame
i actually really think jagex should go back and look at things like that
and make sure their mechanics are consistent
like if they're throwing a tornado at you make every tornado function the same even if they're not actually the same speed
just so people know how the game works when they see things
chrome lantern
I put it in my post I linked above but the easiest way to improve moons is to make it so you’re actually rewarded for doing mechanics and finishing early so you’re not just waiting around or just not getting hit
meager flame
if you listen to rice talk about moons
he actually tried to make people like us not enjoy it
so we wouldn't do the content and go away so the noobs would profit more
he regrets it now but lol
thats also why it has no pet
narrow folio
I thought those mechanics were to even out the gear differential
nocturne solstice
Nadoes don’t teach cg because they work completely differently. If you tried to ...
Hmm i guess the only thing similar are the wave attacks we see from yama wardens, zebak waves, stuff like that where you have to dodge between oncoming objects.
I think the whole point is that is that one is safe and one kills you isntantly and you learn at the safe one.
meager flame
I thought those mechanics were to even out the gear differential
exactly
basically making it slow no matter what you attack with but its mostly holding back people in gear
chrome lantern
While not all, the majority of even new players I interact with, by around 50kc, are already near the skill cap of moons and have becomes tremendously bored with it. But you still have to spend the majority of your time waiting around or running between rooms
chrome lantern
Hmm i guess the only thing similar are the wave attacks we see from yama wardens...
Then make it work remotely anything like those
And more importantly don’t make the player sit around and do nothing for 20 seconds after
meager flame
its basically subtly designed to make you feel like you're wasting your time the more progressed your account is
which is honestly funny im not even mad at it
nocturne solstice
Its an easy boss for learners what do you expect
Of course its gunna be slow, to account for people learning that are still running.
Same with blue moon weapon ice thing
chrome lantern
If it’s intended to teach then it should teach more relevant things and not have such a low ceiling
nocturne solstice
You're still waiting like 3 rounds of spikes after getting your wep if you know what you're doing.
chrome lantern
You’ve learned everything there is to learn 1/6th of the way into the grind
jagged marsh
Moons teaches you how to do Guardians and that's it
meager flame
i honestly feel like if they really want to teach people
nocturne solstice
Well we're using nados as one example, what about jaguars for back stepping? Thats useful
meager flame
they should just give them more practice modes for things that might really stress them out
zenith pike
If it’s intended to teach then it should teach more relevant things and not have...
Can’t you cntrl click the whole thing with zero repercussions
jagged marsh
Well we're using nados as one example, what about jaguars for back stepping? Tha...
Yeah for Guardians
chrome lantern
Well we're using nados as one example, what about jaguars for back stepping? Tha...
Where? At ToB in 2000 hours? At a different attack speed for no reason?
chrome lantern
Can’t you cntrl click the whole thing with zero repercussions
Two clicks for orb yes
meager flame
like for example letting people practice tanking verzik before they have teammates that expect them to know what they're doing
nocturne solstice
Where? At ToB in 2000 hours? At a different attack speed for no reason?
That's one place, arraxor comes to mind as another (enrage phase step under), which then brings up KQ or any other boss you'd step under for.
meager flame
since a lot of the time stuff like that freaks people out its really more social pressure than anything
chrome lantern
That's one place, arraxor comes to mind as another (enrage phase step under), wh...
It’s not like those at all though
nocturne solstice
Also why would a different attack speed matter? Its to practice a mechanic not a boss.
Its not like jaguars were designed to be a baby verzik with the exact same moves. Nor should any content be designed with that in mind.
chrome lantern
It’s crazy that people will say, “Jaguar teaches content you will use in the last boss of the hardest raid, it’s great for teaching new players!”
nocturne solstice
It’s not like those at all though
How? It's getting the timing right to move tiles or you take a hit.
How are they not alike at all?
meager flame
i actually think its kind of interesting that they seem to agree that tob is the hardest raid when im not 100% on board
chrome lantern
You’d be better learning PvM and timing from Hallowed sepulcher than moons
nocturne solstice
now THAT'S content that's nothing alike at all
meager flame
at least not without adding some stuff in like maybe hm or whatever
nocturne solstice
and wild to say
chrome lantern
Your only argument was that you learn to move on time
Which is literally all that sepulcher is
And does better
One of the best places to learn movement and timing in the game
nocturne solstice
My argument is that content that teach you to move on time is for content where you have to move on time. They are similar because they are both move then attack.
Sepulchre is look at projectile at straight path and move tile to dodge
meager flame
idk if they're really teaching you anything other than like
meager flame
extremely vaguely that the concept can exist
when what players really need is some kind of like
visual tell they understand so they know when they should move
nocturne solstice
It teaches you that the concept exists and is a safe place to practice it
meager flame
like
nocturne solstice
safe in quotation marks since really its moreso low stakes and low punish
meager flame
ideally in a perfect world you dont need a boss to teach you the concept because your art team would've done a good enough job
that you see it on your screen and understand
but especially older osrs content
is super super bad at that
nocturne solstice
I feel like you're severely overestimating players especially ones new to the game or gaming in general.
And i dont want OSRS to just become other mmos with red rings that fill up.
meager flame
like verzik tanking for example
nocturne solstice
and red triangles and red rectangles on the ground
meager flame
honestly horrible visually
you basically have to be a pretty hardcore osrs player to be able to get it relative to the general population of the game
stuff like that usually isn't very ideal
their newer content is wayyyyyy better about stuff like that though
theres usually animations or sounds or something to let people know things are happening
nocturne solstice
I do appreciate that we dont see as much shadows on the ground as an indicator. That stuff is so often hard to see.
its still there, but we usually get other indicators too like the sounds you said
chrome lantern
I feel like you're severely overestimating players especially ones new to the ga...
Honestly if people need these things to learn the game I don’t want to retain then as players
That might be a bit of an extreme statement
But Moons is not really a good teaching content
nocturne solstice
It is an extremist statement and it will be disregarded since the devs obviously want to retain players lmao.
meager flame
my goal was always just that if something is happening that you need to understand
the game should actually provide a way for you to understand it
its a bit insane when things are just happening consistently and they're like
expecting people to just feel the flow lol
which we can do eventually but it takes people much longer to even know whats happening without youtube guides and everything when you do that
and honestly it just sucks for people trying to understand
zenith pike
the game should actually provide a way for you to understand it
So that you don’t need something like dbm to tell you, like how sol communicates what he can do and it’s up to you paying attention to know what
nocturne solstice
I think OSRS just goes with the old school way of gaming where you learn by trial and error.
Its not like modern MMOs where you have messages on the screen telling you exactly what you have to do for this boss mechanic or 5 pages of tips appearing every 10 steps you take.
zenith pike
Its not like modern MMOs where you have messages on the screen telling you exact...
3,2,1 mage
meager flame
well its not exactly like that
sol is a good example on osrs
the boss is telegraphing what its going to do and you're reacting to it
chrome lantern
Yeah perhaps a better way to state what I said just now is that excessively babied content isn’t productive for teaching and undermines the basis of how the game works if people expect the game to work like that beyond that point. It’s just a very different direction from the rest of the content and I don’t think it’s desirable or productive
meager flame
most new content does this in some form
nocturne solstice
I dont feel like the unequip mechanic is very clear for first timers, its definitely trial and error to learn the attack rotations too for spear and shield.
meager flame
its the older osrs content though where its like
just straight up things are happening and you have nothing indicating to you why or when lol
and we just kind of memorized a lot of it
or invented our own tools like
visual metronome or tile indicators
nocturne solstice
Yeah perhaps a better way to state what I said just now is that excessively babi...
I think baby content is fine for babies. The content was designed as midgame content so it's fine for it not to intensive and have a high skill ceiling. If your criticisms were towards something like Doom or Yama then I'd agree with you wholeheartedly though.
dawn jackal
there's no where in the game that teaches you what a slash bonus is
chrome lantern
On a somewhat related topic I thought of because of near-release Sol
Why hasn’t Watchdog been banned as a plugin
dawn jackal
this game is very fortunate the wiki exists
meager flame
watchdog does some things that are very very good for disabled people but it also has features that im not even sure why jagex allows it
they can just ask runelite to disable them
but dont
nocturne solstice
iirc there was one place where the game teaches you about slash bonus but its a lie 🤔
I think it was a slayer master tip when you get a mob for a task. He recommends slash but its actually to stab or something.
meager flame
like its weird its not even a situation where jagex would have to be confrontational or anything
zenith pike
Watchdog is effectively dbm lite, not to the same degree but it’s like 60% the way there
meager flame
they can just ask they get the final say with runelite
things like
watchdog being able to enable or disable other plugins
definitely should not be allowed
chrome lantern
I don’t know what dbm is
meager flame
its an addon for wow that basically gave you timers for when abilities would happen
so people could plan around it
zenith pike
Just think it’ll tell you what to do and when to do it
chrome lantern
ic
meager flame
its actually kind of the only reason wow is able to be as complicated as it is
nocturne solstice
Sounds op
meager flame
they basically have had 20 years of players developing a tech tree like an rts lol
and them making the game faster and more complicated as a response
nocturne solstice
Sounds like we have a similar problem with osrs
meager flame
yeah i mean im definitely quite a bit better at osrs because of plugins
i could probably learn to do some of the things i do like
zenith pike
Eh, there’s some nice stuff but like
meager flame
i could probably teach myself olm without tile/true tile indicators
but it would be a lot harder i think
and it also helps that i've had a lot of practice with the markers
chrome lantern
Good thing you don’t need plugins for those on the official client
nocturne solstice
Some i dont mind but others I feel are a bit overboard. Personally I think I only use npc indicators and tile indicators.
zenith pike
Nothing can or will ever be the equivalent to Weak auras so I think we’re fine
nocturne solstice
No watchdog or tick counters for me
ember token
I think it was a slayer master tip when you get a mob for a task. He recommends ...
not seeing any specifically like that but the tip for crocodiles is close, it recommend stab but they're weakest to slash
nocturne solstice
not seeing any specifically like that but the tip for crocodiles is close, it re...
Yeah I think that might've been the one. It was only a nugget of a memory so I probs had the details wrong 😅
meager flame
you can do things like display image because chat message appears
like an icon weakaura lol
zenith pike
We don’t got access to the RS api if I’m remembering right, we can only go so far
meager flame
if jagex knows whats good for them they will kindly tell them to remove a bunch of the things watchdog can do
the weird thing is that watchdog was actually disabled in a lot of boss areas
because of this already
so im kinda surprised its creeping back in
tender harness
what are people using watchdog on now lol
nocturne solstice
People complain a lot so im not surprised its creeping back in 
meager flame
basically people are realizing you can do all kinds of crazy stuff like
put down tile markers and have them flash in order that you're supposed to be using them
nocturne solstice
oof
that sounds like a rulebreak there
pretty sure thats against the plugin guidelines, telling you where to stand for stuff
chrome lantern
Even stuff as “simple” as giant box for crystal extractor felt a bit much to me but yeah there’s way worse
nocturne solstice
Watchdog ban soon surely
meager flame
well its not exactly telling you where to stand
its not reacting to the game
you're just setting up a predictable cycle
and if you so happen to know that works for a certain boss
chrome lantern
[[Crystal extractor]]
ornate wolfBOT
Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Crystal_extractor
meager flame
it works lol
restive storm
I really hope they crack down on 3p plugins overall, the auto tele scripts/logging are getting old too
tender harness
extractor had zero business giving 600 exp
but like thats just an oversight in general that should never had happened
meager flame
so its more like clever use of the restrictions from jagex
this is always the danger though
people will problem solve and figure out ways jagex never thought of
and make jagex amend their stance over and over
its going to happen with their official client/api shortly
when they let us start using it
tender harness
I mean they're running into the problem of 3p plug-ins essentially making the game easier
(and until Jagex either cracks down)
(or pushes people to their laucher with a moderated list of plug-ins)
you will get content that is eventually dsesigned with these plug in capabilities in mind, and then it continues.
chrome lantern
The Watchdog plugin from the plugin hub on Runelite can be used to notify you when the crystal mote is available to be harvested. The following instructions can be followed to create a persistent overlay alert when a mote is available, that will disappear once the mote is harvested.
Create a New alert of type "Game Message", and give it a name, EG: Crystal mote available. Enter the game message Your crystal extractor has harvested a crystal mote!
Alternatively, use the picker to grab the text from your chat box.
Add a notification of type "Overlay" with text Crystal mote
You can customise the colour and text colour of the notification using the colour pickers.
Select the "Sticky" setting, and give the notification an ID, EG: 1234.
In order to dismiss the notification once you claim the mote, create a new alert of type "XP Drop", selecting Sailing and >= 250
While the Mote itself is worth 250 XP, it is possible to gain bonus XP (such as from a keg of Horizon's lure), or XP from another source (such as a crewmate using a Salvaging Hook) on the same tick you collect the Mote.
Create a Notification of type "Dismiss Overlay", and enter the ID you used earlier, EG: 1234.
You will now receive an overlay popup when the Crystal extractor is ready, which will close after you claim the mote.
Importable Watchdog config
The fact that the wiki has a whole guide section on it is wild, obviously that’s not Jagex controlled though but highlights how widespread it is
nocturne solstice
Yeah thats a big oof
meager flame
yeah its shitty weakauras
like
osrs is climbing out of the stone age
and jagex better throw us back in and throw away the key
because they dont want to see where this goes eventually
tender harness
I dont personally enjoy shit thats designed with things like weak auras or watchdog in mind
its not fun
chrome lantern
I certainly don’t want to yeah
If anything I would rather work toward a game less built on plugins
meager flame
they just need to hold the line with the sort of like
chrome lantern
Clue helper and Quest helper are already too far tbh
meager flame
standard plugins we have right now
chrome lantern
If we look at it objectively
meager flame
and not let us go any further
tender harness
quest helper is fine but (part of quest problems are due to just some of the archaic design of quests)
meager flame
idk if they can really take away the basic stuff we've already got without people quitting
but they shouldn't let us keep evolving lol
chrome lantern
I don’t think quest helper is fine, in general any plugin that dynamically reacts to player input in that way is too far
Quest guides are more than enough
meager flame
i dont really mind the quest helper thing because like
chrome lantern
Anything that just tells you what to do
restive storm
If anything I would rather work toward a game less built on plugins
Hopefully they take a note from blizzards recent stance where they’re now backpedaling and removing addons cuz it’s such a toxic arms race
meager flame
we all already cheat with quests lmao
restive storm
But jagex seems pretty slow on it
meager flame
i can remember being on runehq to solve puzzles and read nothing
nocturne solstice
I dont mind quest helper as much since a lot of people make multiple accounts. Them adding the different levels of assistance was good though.
meager flame
quest helper is just the natural continuation
chrome lantern
Quests are amazing but people have never enjoyed them less than with quest helper because they took away the only interaction you ever did with them and not it’s just clicking where told
Doing a fight here and there
meager flame
its kinda like the clue scroll helpers
where the coordinate clues etc might as well just be on your map in game
but
tender harness
some of the old quests are super non descript that to certain people. theyre off putting
meager flame
some of the puzzle solves are a little op
tender harness
paying 200k is fine for monkey madness slider wws
chrome lantern
some of the old quests are super non descript that to certain people. theyre off...
Sure but the default shouldn’t be to use an on-screen guide overlay without even looking
dawn jackal
its crazy how my brain just riots now when doing a puzzle like the fremmy exile door puzzle
zenith pike
some of the puzzle solves are a little op
I don’t think clues are a fundamentally good activity but yeah the plugins make that worse
meager flame
its just interesting because like
tender harness
but thats the players fault? that should be an opportunity for the devs to look back and ask what can we do to improve this so people dont need to rely on a tool like that then
meager flame
i know how to solve the sliding puzzles explicitly because you just had to learn back in the day
but those light boxes in osrs
no idea man i just hit buttons until it tells me what to press
narrow folio
1 hour timer was beginning of the end
chrome lantern
People only accept it because they care more about clogs than the fundamental activities of clues
restive storm
some of the old quests are super non descript that to certain people. theyre off...
It isn’t like there’s no better way to solve this than putting in brain off autopilot instructions lol
chrome lantern
1 hour timer was beginning of the end
1hr timer and stackable clues made them way less enjoyable yeah
Still sickened that was unpolled
And then in the game so long nobody would ever vote it out
meager flame
tbf if they had put it on a poll
zenith pike
People only accept it because they care more about clogs than the fundamental ac...
But the activity is the worse part, it’s the payoff what matters
meager flame
it would be more op than it is
restive storm
Cloggers/irons man, anything to make the game faster to “complete” will always pass
meager flame
it was probably wise of them to take more control of the change
since if they did what the community wanted we'd probably just have like
god knows what to stack clues
restive storm
Jagex needs to grow a spine again like they used to have, they now cater to the “data” of random surveys of literally anyone who has touched the game (bots included) and refuses to think outside that data
chrome lantern
Reminder that polling requirements are lower than LMS
chrome lantern
And Jagex’s example of having enough experience to vote on changes to a boss was like, 3 kc at vorkath or something
Let me find it
dawn jackal
it all started with the max cape
meager flame
idk why their requirements for voting are so low
restive storm
And Jagex’s example of having enough experience to vote on changes to a boss was...
Lest we forget “PvP” poll access was granted to anybody with one single lms kill
zenith pike
Please decouple clue scrolls from meaningful items and we can start healing
meager flame
genuinely i dont get it like
round lintel
To be honest I dont like moons, mostly because you spend more time running from one place to the other, blood moon sucks I hate blood moon, and the other moons have mechanics that I hate like blue moon slowing your attacks and u cant really do anything to prevent it but come in the highest defence armour u can get early
nocturne solstice
I imagine if the requirements were higher the % of voters would be a lot lot lot lower.
meager flame
the minimum right now is like asking a 5 year old their political opinions
they might answer
but it doesn't mean anything
restive storm
I imagine if the requirements were higher the % of voters would be a lot lot lot...
This is good imo cuz they might actually understand the game and not treat it like an afk phone simulator like we have rn
nocturne solstice
To be honest I dont like moons, mostly because you spend more time running from ...
Yeah the running between fights is the most annoying for me
meager flame
they should be sending those people surveys though
tender harness
the one thing that I did like with the sailing poll they restricted opinions to the high level stuff and 99 to those who were actually meeting the requirements. something I wish they'd actually do in polls
meager flame
so they can figure out how new people feel when they play the game
its just they're not experienced enough to understand what they're voting for when it comes to actual changes
chrome lantern
It was an opinion poll example tbf but still
tender harness
but to be blunt. someone who has zero kc on vorkath and only did quest vorkath
their opinion isn't the same as someone who farmed 10 or 500 KC and it shouldn't count
as an example with this
meager flame
i mean if you think about the polls we get
they're almost never restricted
they're asking people that potentially only recognize the question as english possibly what they want
tender harness
and thats probably one of the bigger problems with polling in its current iteration
nocturne solstice
I dont care much about random quest bosses like vorkath. I think having those kc requirements make more sense for raids though. I wouldn't want every poll to work that way.
It'd be such a pain in the ass
tender harness
people don't want to hear it. but poll questions should be restricted to people who actually have experience in what theyre polling (raids, skilling reqs, pvp) what ever
chrome lantern
It’s just comical to say “what’s a kc where people are experienced at the boss” then say lower than the vork head rate
meager flame
the only time im not sure if they should restrict it
is when they're asking people if they want more of a certain kind of content
rather than asking about specific changes
tender harness
me as a main, shouldn't offer polling insight for what is beneficial for UIMs on polls (id remove death piling) 
meager flame
because you wouldn't want to create the reverse situation where its an echo chamber
like if all pvp content was pvp restricted im sure the pvp guys would be like
hell yeah yes to everything
nocturne solstice
It’s just comical to say “what’s a kc where people are experienced at the boss” ...
lmao thats true
chrome lantern
I don’t play UIM but if I did I’d play storageless
meager flame
and most players might be like
man i hate this content why are they focused on it
so they do need to be careful lol
tender harness
Devs also kind of sometimes need to just sometimes ignore what passes polls and perhaps realize that its not a good idea
surge pots
chrome lantern
They did do that for Ruinous Powers, thankfully
zenith pike
I was never afraid of new prayers
meager flame
they worked on them enough that we get to use them in some leagues
tender harness
prayer upgrades are inevitable whether its a new book or just additional scrolls
meager flame
i feel like its just waiting
oblique mesa
Devs also kind of sometimes need to just sometimes ignore what passes polls and ...
Like the castle wars crates 
chrome lantern
It’s not about being “afraid of new prayers” it’s about bad content that wasn’t balanced well
zenith pike
I was afraid of people saying how they should synergize with wearing god d’hide
zenith pike
Yeah
nocturne solstice
yeah god alignments
chrome lantern
Glad we haven’t heard anything back about that
meager flame
that sounded cool until they offered us a look at their actual ideas
nocturne solstice
i liked the idea but not the prayer proposed
meager flame
and then i wanted to get out of there asap
zenith pike
I remember how no one had any good ideas
meager flame
dudes tried to give me 5 flavors of redemption
nocturne solstice
Yeah it was a lot of redemption going on there
I reckon it was fear of power creep
chrome lantern
Redemption 2, and definitely not Redemption
meager flame
there were some other scary ones too
like hey everyone pray this and get on the same tick cycle while we attack to buff each other
surely that wouldn't have been the most annoying thing ever
its funny because it would be so good for certain things like especially tob
but so annoying if your group wasn't locked in
zenith pike
its funny because it would be so good for certain things like especially tob
Yeah, you’re synced up or can tick fix pretty reliably with a good team
chrome lantern
Also I feel like it would just add an annoying layer of player toxicity and make people not want to take teammates
“Sorry 5t weapon only*
meager flame
every time jagex has a crazy sounding idea they're leaning in that direction
zenith pike
That sounds hilarious ngl
meager flame
where you're low key fighting yourself or your teammates instead of the boss
chrome lantern
I thought about typing a stupid concept then realized some people might like it and agree or Jagex might read it
nocturne solstice
That feels like most co-op content haha
zenith pike
I thought about typing a stupid concept then realized some people might like it ...
Go on then
We all have crazy things we’d like to see, just some of us are more valid than others
chrome lantern
Nope, I would really hate if I had to do what I was going to write for good dps anywhere
I’ll speak broadly and say it would be similar in dislike to Jagex’s original Doom reward proposal for thralls that did damage on return to you when they expired
Probably would’ve hated it more tbh
zenith pike
Stop teasing, please 🙏
torpid delta
that sounded cool until they offered us a look at their actual ideas
didn't help that iirc they gave the project to a mod who (at the time) had just joined and hadn't really done anything yet
like nothing against them how do you end up giving something as hotly debated as new prayers to the new guy
zenith pike
didn't help that iirc they gave the project to a mod who (at the time) had just ...
Because half the people the concept was pitched too went far and over what a prayer should ever be defined as, and out of the half that understood a good chunk of them tried tying damage to having stamina or while run is active
The initial proposal sucked a bit but the discussions were cooked and stayed cooked until they decided to scrap them
torpid delta
idc about shitty player suggestions im talking about like, what went on at jagex to let that happen in the first place
i'm pretty sure rookie jmods start with like, holiday events
not designing prayerbooks (or whatever you'd class the alignments as)
surely you would want the A-team on that
zenith pike
Maybe B-team ngl
zenith pike
surely you would want the A-team on that
Probably a Jmod more familiar with the game as it’s played
analog crow
i'm pretty sure rookie jmods start with like, holiday events
Nowadays maybe
The original draft of DT1 was made by an intern
Did the intern design the ancient spellbook as well? Who knows?
obsidian venture
hell yeah yes to everything
funnily enough no
that community is fractured on its own
torpid delta
Did the intern design the ancient spellbook as well? Who knows?
the spellbook was by the guy who picked up and fixed the project at least according to that old thread where it was first mentioned
but yeah it's a funny similarity
analog crow
Hey Jagex wanna bring me on to design the next megarare? I won't let you down. 🫡
zenith pike
Hey Jagex wanna bring me on to design the next megarare? I won't let you down. �...
Jagex, take what he said but ignore him and choose me.
I got this
chrome lantern
I hope neither of you design it
zenith pike
I hope neither of you design it
For why 😔
chrome lantern
I disagree with your takes, simple enough
analog crow
I respect it
zenith pike
I disagree with your takes, simple enough
Fair, I will disagree with your disagreement
chrome lantern
As I would expect
analog crow
Just wait until the part of the movie where I win you over with my earnestness
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WonOverByEarnestness
zenith pike
And then you’ll start warming up to me because I’ll start bribing you
analog crow
Everyone has a price 
zenith pike
Like a Costco pizza
analog crow
I'd settle for a nice salad with feta cheese
zenith pike
Old coconut cookies
hard axle
I hope neither of you design it
I will design it 
restive storm
my only caveat is that whoever designed singles + never be let near the game code / brainstorming sessions again
zenith pike
I will design it <:HYPERBRUH:523373935018901529>
Get your own
restive storm
should only get to stink it up that bad one time
zenith pike
What the helly
past latch
Does anyone know where I can submit a ticket for bugs in game?
Maniacal monkies are getting "stuck" in a line and no longer roaming the room at the same rate as before.
Once I move to the other side of the room they start moving around but then it seems like they get "reset"
Please help 🙏 thanks
ember token
already a known issue
but you can report bugs by right clicking the report button ingame and click report game bug
merry verge
people don't want to hear it. but poll questions should be restricted to people ...
yeah like should an account with 0 interaction with any in-game PvP, no kills/deaths in wildy or anything be able to decide on things about PvP balancing?
But I mean sure they could let everyone vote, but they should filter and look at data looking at what the in-game statistics of the voters is when it comes to very specific things like this I think- then they could see if 95% of people who interact with PvP vote yes for something, but it'd still fail in a fully open poll with 69% upvotes for example.
merry verge
hell yeah yes to everything
I don't think it'd be that bad, but that is a potential danger with polling targeted groups, indeed. Therefore I do think it is indeed good to see open poll votes and be able to compare the two and take feedback from both into account, especially if there are large discrepancies.
For example when the last Chivalry poll failed, the rework that was suggested during Royal Titans. They should've gone into the feedback and from which group comes what feedback. They still haven't gotten back to us to discuss those poll results as they promised 1 year ago tho, probably because of the MTX drama that was happening just at that time so they were too hot to touch anything controversial...
But ye, for that poll specifically, minor adjustments or tweaks would've made the difference easily, and they should refine that poll question and poll it properly..
narrow folio
Relax boys I'll design it. Blowpipe laser scope attachment.
kind surge
make it a reward for a dungeoneering-style dungeon and you're hired
[[rsw:shieldbow sight]]
ornate wolfBOT
Wiki links found:
https://runescape.wiki/w/Shieldbow_sight
hasty shard
Relax boys I'll design it. Blowpipe laser scope attachment.
ok but bp range increase upgrade 👉 👈
zenith pike
ok but bp range increase upgrade 👉 👈
ember grove
I think that specific update is maybe the most pathetic one Jagex has ever made
just complete disdain for the entire playerbase outside pkers
tacit wharf
thats fine, thats what we got huey hide top for
hard axle
I think that specific update is maybe the most pathetic one Jagex has ever made
...
It definitely was warranted given there was no diff between god dhide, minimal between armadyl as well
They weren’t ready to kick up the dps at that point
ember grove
that was not their motivation
we know it wasn't because they literally said it was because it was too good against pkers and they nuked the bulwark alongside it
hard axle
There really isn’t a good reason why a mass produceable piece gear should’ve ever been near bis 
God Dhide ended up being the same, but wasn’t touched because of this
chrome lantern
Huey hide is still such a scam tbh
hard axle
Huey hide is still such a scam tbh
It is
chrome lantern
"Ranged prayer gear" that's just worse crystal
chrome lantern
It's crazy how many things from Varlamore just weren't at all what was proposed/pitched as
Huey hide
Quiver ammo slots
Colossal Wyrm
tacit wharf
that was not their motivation
we know it wasn't because they literally said it ...
the other reason was also because of how commonly it was use to "rag" people in
hard axle
I still think a viable solution to BP would’ve been to just cap its max hit
but people were saying “it’s ugly”
chrome lantern
What's ugly
hard axle
Idk, but I’m a practical person 
If it works, great
30-32 max hit and leave it at that
chrome lantern
Also true
narrow folio
capping bp at 32 max hit forever is crazy
Thank you jagex for not doing anything like that
round lintel
I keep misclicking the trees at lvl 8 or 9 where there's alot of acid, is there any way to highlight them or making seem more visible?
chrome lantern
Trees?
chrome lantern
Oh
I never understood why people call them trees
They look nothing like trees
If you do the same setup every time they should spawn fairly consistently in the same general area
Cleaning is a high priority for deep delving
Aside from that idk you could mark them or something
I like to recommend molgoatkirby's deep delve guide
round lintel
i do but for example, the 4 times ive had this problem they spawned and i couldnt see them being there and when i click for some reason my click goes to one
say for example this last run it spawned in an acid
so all i could see was acid
and i click on the tile next to it
chrome lantern
That's weird, I haven't really done doom since zbuffer changes so it could be something associated
I guess you could get in the habit of shiftclicking or something
round lintel
but my camera angle made it so i click on whatever u dont call tree is
and proced it close to my other one and i wouldnt live 5 slams
with boulders on queue
hasty shard
highlight -> change fill colour should work
hasty shard
ok it might be an object only thing hold on
tag style outline should make them pop out more if you use blue or something
winged mantle
I never understood why people call them trees
I always called them rocks/ shockwave pillars
round lintel
lmao i just died at 8 cuz the charge phase never proc, 292 hp in and no charge phase and i chally got melee range and it melee me
first time ive seen this
zenith pike
lmao i just died at 8 cuz the charge phase never proc, 292 hp in and no charge p...
So you you passed the threshold by over around 122 damage and it kept going?
round lintel
Yes and no, my dps was sooo bad and kept throwing boulders at me i got to the earth orb part instead, but by then it was 420 hp, after shield i kept going until my chally got it 292hp and still hit me with the melee att cuz i wasnt 1 tile away
zenith pike
Yes and no, my dps was sooo bad and kept throwing boulders at me i got to the ea...
Oh that makes more sense
final frigate
I still think a viable solution to BP would’ve been to just cap its max hit <:Pi...
if they wanted to nerf it (i think it's fine to keep as is) they should hit the accuracy imo so the niche is very clear
rn it's giga strong cause the damage is strong enough to be used almost universally
icy relic
They already nerfed the acc
You could remove the last 30 acc and it wouldn't impact it much
The rest of the ranged gear has just gotten really good
And ranged str scales extremely hard on BP
final frigate
doesn't help that masori costs 300k
but even then the current accuracy lets it be bis or 2nd bis at so many bosses
for the price point it can be perfectly balanced hovering 3rd
narrow folio
you have to include the fact you require the rest of the high end range gear to compete at that level
icy relic
Quiver and avernics are a must
narrow folio
vambs quiver treads arent exactly cheap either
final frigate
yeah but its competition is what, zcb bowfa and zcb is like 350m and bowfa crystal is 180m or something
narrow folio
and probably that anguish upgrade later isnt going to be easy
final frigate
masori bp at its lowest was like 70m
icy relic
ZCB and bowfa both do things BP can't
It's fine
If anything SRA needs a fat fuckin buff
final frigate
it does and same for rapier
small anvil
Sra is a bit weak for how hard it is to acquire ya
But as a stepping stone to megarare item its power is ok ish? It's just kinda hard to use because of the dmg and ramp up
It scales 140% iirc
But normalized to compare to a 4t weapon it's only a bit ahead
Scy is 175%
4t weapon it's 125% effectively
final frigate
i do like niches and imo if the hp cost was removed it'd just be sort of a stronger nally but like
man is it annoying
small anvil
Yeah too big a draw back
icy relic
The DPS of the SRA is fine but the problem is that it doesn't break any rules like bowfa and fang do