i think it could go slightly higher, was supposed to be a kind of place to revive pking brackets, but i think it being multi kinda made it a little bleegh tho
#game-update
restive storm
but yeah there's a lot of ways out above 30 rn, but i guess it doesnt really matter w/ the timer anyway cuz u can just freeze log literally anywhere (bar multi). So you dont gotta even really worry about WHERE per se you are
nocturne solstice
Yeah that would be good. Id want some more above ground content too, rework the overworld mobs to have some better loot instead of just being scenery.
This starts relating to what I mentioned about looking into other Extraction based games to get some ideas.
restive storm
yea agreed, if i gotta enter one more cave with special rules cuz we havent figured out another way to deal with bots im gonna scream -.-
nocturne solstice
Its just all so convoluted right now with this working here, this working there, gotta do this before you can go here, this works but only if you do this, that doesn't work here.
Just everything needs a big rework imo
But I know people might get angry with it not being "old school" anymore if there's a massive rework 😅
restive storm
absolutely, maybe 2026 will finally be our year
i mean its already not old school with all the changes lol, the pj timer makes it feel like some kinda weird private server
but we'll see what (if anything) they cook up
nocturne solstice
IMO as long as a player from 2004 when they were a kid can come back and still think "Wow I remember this" it's still OSRS.
It's definitely significantly different now with new content (especially sailing) but I think a wildy rework would work and still fit the old school vibe as long as it's still considered the dangerous PVP free-for-all area.
The big changes I think Jagex should avoid are moving things around too much (changing spawn point to burthorpe in rs3), big graphical changes, and changes to combat (Players big fear the EOC).
restive storm
yea, id also really not want them to start messing with wildy death systems. Like Ive seen a lot of people asking for ironmen coffers etc where you dont lose items just some gp. That would also feel way too far
nocturne solstice
Yeah i dont want that either
The point is you lose your items, so you should lose your items
chrome lantern
While I am sympathetic to the intent I think it makes more sense to just let you choose which items are your 3/4 items protected
restive storm
yea, i can understand them reworkng untradeables to adjust the gp value and make them break everywhere within the wildy above 20 etc
losing those is just a giant pain for everyone lol
chrome lantern
You should be able to set a player-selected value for protecting items
Would let you select your 1/3/4 items and also would let you still get a drop that outweighs one of your items so you can keep a unique etc. instead of a defender if you get pked while getting a drop
winged mantle
In the items lost on death screen - select items to protect
Or
In equipment - right click to star an item= protected on death (up to 3)
quiet plank
Selecting the items you wanna protect would give pkers more cash too
restive storm
think for me itd depend on how big a job that would be for them, i dont really mind it that much, but if its gonna take the position of like a "PvP focused update" then id really rather they not
nocturne solstice
I'm personally not super into that. I get it but I'm really just "If i dont want to risk X item I just dont bring it, if I lose it, it's my fault."
chrome lantern
Nah I think value makes more sense because then I could get like a VW piece and protect that over my zombie axe or ddef
quiet plank
So it's a win win
winged mantle
I'm personally not super into that. I get it but I'm really just "If i dont want...
Some items should protect over others but don't
Eg the new horn of plenty
chrome lantern
Yeah selecting items to protect is also robust to new items
winged mantle
The ones jagex hasn't fixed the base value of
restive storm
Nah I think value makes more sense because then I could get like a VW piece and ...
not if it goes in ur looting bag
chrome lantern
not if it goes in ur looting bag
Sure but that's why you don't loot into the bag
I wouldn't change how the looting bag works
But if I flagged 4 gear items to protect and I get a unique I'm chasing
And I can't change to protect that over like my ddef because I'm getting pked
restive storm
ahh i see what ur sayin
chrome lantern
That's why I think player-selected value makes more sense
Than just "protect these items"
restive storm
i just think itd likely be a big job
chrome lantern
I might not have one of the things I'd rather protect
nocturne solstice
The ones jagex hasn't fixed the base value of
Yeah I think that should be fixed. But I dunno about a whole new player select system for it.
restive storm
that feels like theres better use for the time
winged mantle
It would remove pain points for pvmers - " i lost x item" then they didn't know it wouldn't protect over x
Items decided by jagex or items decided by what's valuable to the player
nocturne solstice
Where would you risk losing X item aside from in the wilderness or pvp?
winged mantle
Pvm even
I would choose to keep my con cape on death (it prioritises gear over it)
nocturne solstice
Wildy pvm would just be gravestone no?
chrome lantern
But for PvM it would be stuff like teleports etc. you might prefer to keep your max cape for example
winged mantle
Ye
chrome lantern
Wildy pvm would just be gravestone no?
Not if you get PKed
nocturne solstice
Yeah so it wouldnt be pvm that would be pvp again
winged mantle
Multiple applications and would be beneficial to all
quiet plank
I bet people would do stuff like prioritize a ddef over a zaxe
chrome lantern
The only statement was PvM, PvM in the wilderness isn't PvP
It's PvM in a PvP area
nocturne solstice
So to me it's always "I took the risk, I lost this item" since I only bring stuff I risk losing.
chrome lantern
Which is what people do
winged mantle
Some people don't know the risk also
restive storm
Some people don't know the risk also
that ones kinda on them tho
chrome lantern
But I might prefer to protect that over bgloves
winged mantle
that ones kinda on them tho
Yes and no
nocturne solstice
It would remove pain points for pvmers - " i lost x item" then they didn't know ...
But the argument here was losing unintended items
chrome lantern
Especially on like an iron
winged mantle
People get confused when they lose an untradable over lvl 20
chrome lantern
Or I might prefer to protect a cudgel over a dpick drop I just got
nocturne solstice
NGL though I do think the "Items kept on death" button needs to be highlighted better to new players. And double checked by jagex to actually be accurate.
obsidian venture
Think they could rework the trouver thing
nocturne solstice
Im never 100% certain with that thing...
obsidian venture
Any untradeable should just break in the wildy and you can repair it
Maybe over X lvl still
chrome lantern
Parches were just an attempt to add renewable value to LMS but look at where LMS has ended up
Trying to address a real concern in a bad way
winged mantle
I would be so ok with all untradables if you die with them in the wildy and they're not protected they break and you must pay x money
obsidian venture
Yeah
Like I’ll pay a ml for inferno idc
It’s more kank to have a trouver every single time
Irons it’s worse because they have to farm it
winged mantle
Trovers are so unlikely to get on an iron
obsidian venture
It’s just redundant and silly
winged mantle
Very jank
nocturne solstice
Yeah definitely jank
chrome lantern
They're relatively common if you do wildy slayer caves but still not a productive system
nocturne solstice
just another thing Id want reworked with the wildy 
chrome lantern
And not to an extent you'd actually use them to protect and risk an untradeable
winged mantle
I got 6 in 300 larrens keys
winged mantle
Maybe when they expand the wildy the rework things at the same time
analog crow
Remember what they took from you
nocturne solstice
Wasnt that a no vote for the Emir's Arena?
chrome lantern
What about it
analog crow
Yes
nocturne solstice
Who took it
chrome lantern
It takes like all the great parts of the BCP and makes them worse
analog crow
You
nocturne solstice
thats got me curious if I did actually vote on that poll or not
actually i dont like that BCP all that much
the whole point of it is seeing the chest
makes it unique
chrome lantern
I didn't vote no on the PvP arena and BH kits because they're PvP I voted no on them because they're awful
analog crow
the whole point of it is seeing the chest
You could keep the unornate one then
nocturne solstice
This is true
narrow folio
the chest part sits too low
hard axle
Remember what they took from you
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Bandos_ches...
This shit was kinda dooky
Bring back berserker shields 
Jagex please, give me 1 day to dictate what to rebalance
jagged marsh
Remember what they took from you
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Bandos_ches...
Idk why this was offered as a reward for a pvp minigame.
zenith pike
Remember what they took from you
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Bandos_ches...
Just looking at it gives me hives
analog crow
Idk why this was offered as a reward for a pvp minigame.
Crazy that imbue scrolls passed but this didn’t
zenith pike
Brother it looks terrible
jagged marsh
Crazy that imbue scrolls passed but this didn’t
funniest poll of all time imo
hatius cosantius surviving 3 removal polls is up there too
construction green pixel, mouse camera, nail beast sound, all contenders too
warmaw never made it to the poll i think
i mean wrathmaw
torpid delta
nah the funniest poll is when they proposed all the range offhand strength values separately
and we could have lived in a world where odium ward was bis over buckler but people were cowards
or sensible depending on your outlook
but that it even was an option was peak
austere mulch
What about the 4th targeted vls poll that still failed and they added anyways saying something like “you’ve asked for it. And we delivered!”
zenith pike
What about the 4th targeted vls poll that still failed and they added anyways s...
I want a 5th, 6th, and 7th one
austere mulch
I want a 5th, 6th, and 7th one
Next poll be like:
Q1. Should we add raids 4 and remove the PvP-only restriction on VLS?
Q2. Should we improve sailing combat and remove the defense requirement on chivalry?
Q3. Should we work on developing the next Leagues and add the divine sigil to Corp’s drop table?
zenith pike
Next poll be like:
Q1. Should we add raids 4 and remove the PvP-only restrictio...
Damn, gotta say no to Q3
Way too invasive
true talon
Trovers are so unlikely to get on an iron
i got a ton from wildy slayer but i dont even use them, i basically use them on my avernic an infernal cape when doing wildy bosses. but i dont risk its just so i dont have to go get another avernic or infernal cape lol.
Id much rather just pay to repair my cape/avernic if i get pked while risking them.
over parching them
same for my rune pouch or void
chrome lantern
I have one on quiver max cape/one of my infernal/divine rune pouch/avernic yeah but not risking them or anything
more in bank isn’t enough esp when combined with the gp cost
icy relic
already have 2 vws, no more wildy content ever
bp + quiver max cape for clues and that's about it
meager flame
they have been basically slowly replacing every reason i'd even care about having the wildy weapons
which i suppose its probably how it should be outside of the wild
but its interesting that i just never tried to get them because moments where they might have been useful for me get deleted before i get around to the content
icy relic
wildy bosses are a failure anyway, feel like they're only good for a certain level bracket where you can't do real pvm
meager flame
they're just bot content but it hurts them so much to hear that
and they really pretend its not like that but
thats what it is
same thing with revs its guys just running out there in rags to collect free stuff
so that a few people that pk actually have something to shoot at
icy relic
here i tap the whiteboard again and remind jagex
meager flame
and its also mostly just for bots at this point
icy relic
when you tie progression to your skills, people have more to risk if they want to bot their main accounts for exp
icy relic
and you don't flood the market with voidwakers if you unlock player power via high-level skilling
meager flame
idk what they can even do about the wilderness though tbf
and neither do they lol
i feel like its really hard maybe even impossible to "fix" it within the bounds of what they seem willing to do
its a really big mess with tons of like competing designs/wants/huge downsides/nostalgia etc
actually going at it for real would probably be the biggest update of the year almost any given year
ember token
the entire wilderness would have to be redesigned to fix it, like, completely back to the drawing board, creating a new wilderness
which you would think might be difficult for nostalgia reasons, players being opposed to changes
but as this point, how much of the wilderness is actually stuff that people are nostalgic for
ember token
lava maze, maybe the hill giants near the black salamanders
there'd still be people against it because change = bad but it's difficult to come up with an actual reason why they shouldnt redesign the wilderness
analog crow
Bc it’s “”iconic”” whatever that means
fossil epoch
it does feel very clunky for sure. But it has quite a lot of tie ins with quests/minigames, teleports etc that of course would have to be rethought
ember token
sure but like, compared to every other region in the game, the wilderness is the area with the least tie ins
fossil epoch
yeh
analog crow
2 things that prevent wilderness being good is
- people (think they) have nostalgic attachment to it
- people don’t want core progression to be locked behind pvp
fossil epoch
I for sure dont want to be forced into pvp to progress
analog crow
Me too fwiw
But then you’re left with disjointed moneymakers and artificially overtuned skilling activities innit
Aka bot heaven
winged mantle
what if they made a wilderness boss like the dt2 fight that feels like a pker?
analog crow
As a way to ease people into pking ?
winged mantle
yeah
good enough loot and it actually teaches you how to pk/ anti pk
deep wildy singles
analog crow
Could be interesting
Wilderness tutor underneath Ferox might go hard
“Ferox is a good guy but too soft. Don’t tell him we’re sparring down here.”
icy relic
making a raid encounter that simulates fighting players is kind of a banger
like ToC/gunboat in WoW
the absolute cinema of bringing out the d scims, d spears, and a bunch of other crazy stuff
analog crow
Enrage phase where he pulls out the vw
winged mantle
pair that with want faster kills - bring better gear/ risk
icy relic
but yeah at the end of the day the winner takes all dynamic of the wildy makes it unattractive for most people
winged mantle
yeah
icy relic
takes a lot of money to play, and if you want to do staking it's basically just 6M dharok lottery
regular pking isn't worth the effort
winged mantle
pvmers feel like a fish in a barrel most times as well
analog crow
Literally in the case of boss caves
winged mantle
like I want more reasons to go to the wildy
icy relic
I don't
analog crow
I don’t want any reason to go to current wildy
If it got a proper redesign from scratch then maybe I’d like it more
icy relic
You can't incentivize your average player to participate in winner-takes-all pvp
when you can barely get people to LMS which has no supplies or stakes attached to it
stop wasting dev time on it
analog crow
I bet the reason we never saw anything about the wilderness/pvp survey last year is that it was a scathing condemnation of the whole thing
winged mantle
I don’t want any reason to go to current wildy
into a better wilderness
blissful topaz
when is the left click bury bone ground object feature coming?
icy relic
I don't even know where you would start with a wildy revamp, like maybe rolling out PvP armor that squishes damage immensely back to like a 2007 state
maybe we need disruption shield back idk
analog crow
It would be a huge undertaking for potentially little gain
Highly doubt they’d be allowed the resources
winged mantle
when is the left click bury bone ground object feature coming?
no
winged mantle
I don't even know where you would start with a wildy revamp, like maybe rolling ...
bring back edge bounty hunter in a small zone
icy relic
current state of wildy is already so bad for the game when you consider
jagex bent over backwards to make it easier for people to go out there and pk, so they added blighted supplies
now pkers barely have to play the game to keep their supplies up
so much accomodation for pures just for most pure accounts to be fairly worthless (with an asterisk) in modern pvp environments
winged mantle
it's a bad system before it's even added
winged mantle
gives new players the wrong idea on what bones are used for - better xp from using on alters
you're not meant to bury bones for xp
blissful topaz
make it an toggle option
winged mantle
why?
winged mantle
wildy altar should be removed too
disagree
icy relic
f2p does need a buff
winged mantle
hydra is awful
blissful topaz
i feel like the toggle bury option would be good for some early p2p players aswell
icy relic
and yet turmoil does not exist
blissful topaz
they dont have that item that auto bury
icy relic
so there is barely any incentive to train prayer
winged mantle
prayer is too easy
not for new players/ mid level irons
winged mantle
they dont have that item that auto bury
no ones going to be manually picking up bones even if it has auto bury
icy relic
there are ensouled heads
winged mantle
ensouled heads are bad
icy relic
prayer is a massive joke compared to the shit I had to go through in RS2
blissful topaz
no ones going to be manually picking up bones even if it has auto bury
u dont pick them up if it buries them on click, they dont appear in ur inventory?
u go to spam click loot pile and it buries the bones in the same clicks
winged mantle
u dont pick them up if it buries them on click, they dont appear in ur inventory...
if they implemented it, it would probably be extra delayed like how they do with hunter trap auto resets
winged mantle
it wouldn't be how you specifically want it to be is the thing
blissful topaz
idk if they can change it
narrow folio
dont see why not
blissful topaz
so the system already excists, so they should add it like they said in early 2026
icy relic
they already have this, except only for giant bones
winged mantle
already in the game
winged mantle
🤷♀️
blissful topaz
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Giant_bones
ty for this info
icy relic
I never want to see another prayer exp update again without getting turmoil
if they make training any easier there better be new prayers up to 99
waste of fucking reward space
what am I gonna do with another 5k sunkissed bones
winged mantle
there should be more uses
heck even a way to make atlatl dart, sunlight crossbow ammo with them
maybe a weaker version of the ammo but alternate
icy relic
100k bone shards to charge any piece of moons armor/sunfire fanatic armor to give it +2 prayer
then add sunlight spear
meager flame
tbh its kind of a shame that the wilderness is what it is
its actually a thematically kind of great area for them to add other updates
analog crow
Yeah pvp is holding it back
honest marsh
I once saw a guy in full dragon standing at ge spam burying bones
vivid ruin
Yeah im holding onto my sunkissed bones just incase they ever add anything to make them useful. My hopes of that are draining since its been taking up a bank space for (without looking) probably a year now 😭
thorny fossil
Don't lie, you are just collecting them from doom so you can have a 20b bank easier
analog crow
Not to speak of the huge botting and rwt issue underlying the entire pvp scene
restive storm
Not to speak of the huge botting and rwt issue underlying the entire pvp scene
That’s every piece of content in the entire game lol, to say that’s the reason it can’t be updated would mean we gotta stop updating the entire game
left bluff
we no have game update after 2 week?
ember token
correct
next game update should be jan 7th
this is how it's been for decades
no game updates in the 2nd half of december while jagex is on holiday
left bluff
I just found out about that
analog crow
That’s every piece of content in the entire game lol, to say that’s the reason i...
Bots make pvm less profitable, but they make pvp unplayable
That's the big difference
restive storm
Bots make pvm less profitable, but they make pvp unplayable
That's the big diffe...
if you're talking about ahkers, theyve actually done pretty well with them recently, there isnt really many out there
rule of thumb is just dont fight voiders
but these days legit like 95% of people that someone says "oh thats an ahker" isnt actually an ahker lol
quartz anchor
I can go in the wildy now and 1 tick flick my prayer / main hand weapon and get like 50% of rev PKers/ wildy boss PKers to 1 tick flick gear swaps/ prayers.
There are definitely still many bots and ahkers out there. But if I got to chaos alter/ north rev cave entrance I find more genuine fights.
It's all about where you look.
restive storm
oh yeah the pvmer bots is like 90% of the game out there, yeah those suck
its super lame that those arent nearly an instaban lol
chrome lantern
I don’t want any reason to go to current wildy
The things that I like on the wilderness are not made more enjoyable by being in the wilderness
I really enjoy the boss encounters for Vet’ion and Venenatis but they’re not made more fun by 10 people dropping in with mystics
restive storm
MYSTICs? man u got the maxers on u i only ever see the moonclan andys lol
ember token
ive been attacked by people wearing basically nothing before lol, i remember a time a group or 3 or 4 came at me when I was doing vet'ion and I got ags spec'd by a guy wearing a frog mask
restive storm
i always find it amusing that its like a game to them to find out how little they can risk, like full diary gear/rcb and moonclan robes w/ a white staff and theyre in like 4k risk total lol
bronze kernel
Unpopular option, but go scorched earth
Remove or nerf everything lucrative in the Wilderness "balanced" by how it was in a PvP zone. Remove PvP entirely from the Wilderness. And move that PvP to an area where the only reason anyone is heading there is for a fight. Nothing else there but carnage
restive storm
yea lets just not do that and remove the most unique area of the game lol
that PvP zone is pvp worlds and those are already dead
/ BH
chrome lantern
Do you think more people would do a second variant of BH that allowed freezing/nh
restive storm
probably not enough people to make it worth making, would also annoy the current (very few) bh andys
i think thats one of the biggest misconceptions that people who dont understand pvp are missing, that BH and wildy pking are in no way comparable lol
chrome lantern
I’ll be real I mostly play iron so I definitely don’t get it. But I’m also not afraid to do wildy bosses or stuff like rogues chests and zombie pirates and revs
And doing them is why I feel like they’re dumb
restive storm
i mean revs is singles rn so thats just free farm content atm, the other ones being multi yea if you get hit you basically die which is kinda lame, im not a big multi guy either
chrome lantern
Not free enough where it just becomes annoying to do though
bronze kernel
Let's just all agree the current state of the Wilderness is in a terrible state right now regardless of which side you on
And only solution is some kind of scorched to destroy it entirely and rebuild
restive storm
Let's just all agree the current state of the Wilderness is in a terrible state ...
this is definitely true lol and @chrome lantern just pick a more obscure rev like the west demon pit, and then just bring a barrage switch and log out the second u get hit
restive storm
And only solution is some kind of scorched to destroy it entirely and rebuild
this is also not true at all lol, reverting the pj timer fixes like 75% of the issues
true talon
Personally i love the wilderness on an ironman esp early, and thats mostly due to blighted supplies.
chrome lantern
this is definitely true lol and <@342523046671941633> just pick a more obscure r...
I’m not saying I die it’s just way less desirable than killing things outside the rev caves. It’s boring content but you have to pay attention then deal with freeze logging every once in a while. It’s all the negatives of being in a PvP zone even if death is unlikely.
I did my revs with a 3 way barrage switch and only died a couple times, it’s just obnoxious
restive storm
i mean yeah if the idea is that you want something to be just afk to the point where you dont have to pay attention then you'll never like any sort of wildy content lol
chrome lantern
I didn’t say that, but revs are not remotely active content
chrome lantern
I’m not trying to afk it’s just a very different mental state where you have to be alert and ready despite nothing interesting happening
restive storm
can always just turn up the sounds and look at other monitor
chrome lantern
Like at least when I get piled at wildy bosses I’m paying attention because the boss has mechanics
At Revs it’s just like killing trash mobs over and over again dulling all your senses
restive storm
yea fair, it isnt the most engaging content ever but neither is like half the game lol
or more
i get what ya mean
bronze kernel
Another crazy idea. Buff Diary Gear stats to have no negative bonuses 
Only positive or 0.
chrome lantern
And what would you be trying to accomplish
restive storm
these are the kind of ideas that make me think people have just never interacted with pvp in any way before lol
analog crow
I’m not saying I die it’s just way less desirable than killing things outside th...
100%
It's boring afk content that you can't afk in case someone gets on you
So you're paying attention to nothing most of the time
meager flame
i mean the wilderness
analog crow
Don't you worry, I'm not
meager flame
is explicitly for the like
"lol im wearing garbage to farm this free content for crazy rewards and lol you're also wearing basically level 2 garbage to try and pk me"
content
analog crow
I exclusively do good content 
restive storm
I exclusively do good content <:scronglyblush:1437386846521790534>
name does not check out
restive storm
yeah but bh and pvp worlds may be even more dead than the wilderness, cuz those styles of pking suck
meager flame
the wilderness is basically exclusively meant for the worst kind of pking
and no they're not
you can just hop to any of those worlds and see all of the people
thats also why most wilderness pvp is dead
meager flame
why would i go wander around looking for someone or hop when i can just go to a world designated for that
and get a fight immediately
thats why things like edge pking are dead and gone
restive storm
because its an entirely different kind of game
its like the difference between doing ToB and like 100 invo TOA
analog crow
Edge pking has morphed into ge venge pking innit
restive storm
yes correct, or bh pking
restive storm
but im saying you're wrong lol
meager flame
they took a lot of the reasons a bunch of people pk and moved it out of the wild
restive storm
that isnt why deep wild nhing died
restive storm
i mean BH being in a seperate crater, versus being in lvls 1-5 edge wildy on one world doesnt make a big difference to the wildy as a whole
meager flame
i mean it does make a huge difference
when you get rid of all but one kind of pvp it turns out almost everyone that used to be there is gone
restive storm
yeah that aint it man lol, theres a reason that pker v pker activity in the wildy died the day after they implemented the pj timer
its cuz nobody can hit each other anymore, thats why every1 whines about hop simulator
meager flame
its been dead way longer than that lol
restive storm
definitely not, i used to pk for hours on end every night leading right up to that timer
and we'd have fights for hours and hours versus people
meager flame
yeah but you could do that right now
analog crow
^
meager flame
its not that hard to find people they are out there
analog crow
I'm sure people still pk for hours every night today
restive storm
its not that hard to find people they are out there
i challenge anyone to go hop around rev caves and lmk the # of pkers you can hit within 1 hour
id almost bet my life the number is 1-2
analog crow
Why hyperfocus on revs
restive storm
because there is nowhere else to pk lol thats just ur best bet
meager flame
i could go stand in the rev cave and do nothing and get killed by more people than that
analog crow
surely there is
restive storm
surely there is
where?
analog crow
Any hotspot
oblique mesa
surely there is
Just ignore callisto / rogues castle / wildy agility
analog crow
real
restive storm
Just ignore callisto / rogues castle / wildy agility <:kekw:997907574034792498>
talking singles, wildy agil is possible but thats even slower than revs still
analog crow
Ignore every hotspot, wtf nowhere to pk 
restive storm
i doubt u find >2 people an hour
we're not seriously saying that multi and singles pking are the same are we?
oblique mesa
There just isn't much to do in singles outside of revs tbh
restive storm
thats definitely not the kind of person telling me they know how to fix the wildy?
oblique mesa
If wildy was all singles+ then maybe
meager flame
but yeah idk i think the main problem with the wilderness is that once they boiled it down to what they have now
and let people go fight each other in other ways elsewhere
game just sucks so nobody wants to go out there and play
kinda hard to overcome it just not being fun
like they had a vision where people went out there and did pvm and tried to run away when they got jumped
turns out everyone else had a vision of logging off
or never going out there
lmao
restive storm
turns out everyone else had a vision of logging off
thats cuz now when ur out there u have the option to just log out of any fight
whereas you didnt used to
meager flame
its not even that people just arent interested and most of the dudes trying to go pvp in the first place
probably aren't trying to nh
and now that they dont have to use the wild
its just over
they go pvp somewhere else the pvmers let jagex know the loot pinata loop sucks
restive storm
its not even that people just arent interested and most of the dudes trying to g...
i mean where i agree is that the pj timer has made learning nhing 5,000x harder
meager flame
so you're left with some people farming bots and maybe trying to nh
restive storm
cuz you're just gonna get blasted by a demon in 2s if youre new out there
whereas before you could go out with some noobie friends and hopefully not die instantly
meager flame
i mean i dont actually think you can nh as a new player
also if you want to try to learn things
oblique mesa
If you are a noob you would just get stomped by a team without the pj timer though
restive storm
If you are a noob you would just get stomped by a team without the pj timer thou...
but at least you can have a team to try and survive
rn you're hopeless
meager flame
jagex tried so hard to give everyone a reason to never be there
surprise its dead now
chrome lantern
Noobs are the least likely to have a team and are more likely to get steamrolled by a team
restive storm
way easier to survive in numbers than solo rn vs rhys or westham who are out there in a 1.4b set and can never die
meager flame
thats how it always was though
you'd go out there and find dudes in max and a singles team
oblique mesa
Rhys and westham would just have their boys with them
restive storm
Noobs are the least likely to have a team and are more likely to get steamrolled...
possibly, but it used to really be pretty easy to jump into a team, there used to be tons of streams that would take noobies in
oblique mesa
Same when Eliop PKs with Sike on BH worlds
restive storm
thats how i learned, thats how half of dino's friends learned
oblique mesa
You get fall'd in on
restive storm
it also made for more activities in places outside of hotspots
cuz if i only had 1 friend on at a time id usually not go straight to chins, we'd probably check somewhere less active with meds and what not
meager flame
and tbf i see why people would complain about the pj timer
their fun was what absolutely everyone else hated
restive storm
then we'd run into other 1-2 man teams at easts or west drags or w/e
meager flame
they just dont get it
so the game is worse for them now
but everyone else is happy
restive storm
yeah, i think just the aspect of nuking gameplay u can do with friends was just kinda tragic
cuz now everyone kinda sits out of discord or w/e since theres no reason to help each other
or we just do other things
meager flame
also im ngl a lot of that stuff is kind of doomed
theres an effect that basically works like an avalanche in games where
if something is too hard to get into or participate in players start quitting and because those guys quit even more people quit as it gets even worse
until you're left with nothing
osrs pvp has been doing that for like 12 years almost
restive storm
if something is too hard to get into or participate in players start quitting an...
oh 100% agree, which is why the timer makes it so noobs get stomped even harder
meager flame
in another 10 there probably wont be anyone
restive storm
its basically impossible to get into rn
restive storm
osrs pvp has been doing that for like 12 years almost
it was active every night right up til the timer idk what you mean
i pked for like 4-6 hours every night and never lacked fights so idk what you mean 12 years lol
meager flame
yeah for that specific activity
but the engagement of clans and pures and so on has been steadily declining because its hard to learn for people and the community shut down most updates
so theres nothing exciting happening
restive storm
yeah that i agree
meager flame
so every year theres just fewer people
restive storm
which is why i wish jagex would do something to encourage it more
and not just do pvp showcases where 16 creators get to have fun while the rest of us just watch wishing the game was still good
oblique mesa
Eh as long as the updates are voted on I don't think PvP will ever get the love you are wishing for 🙁
meager flame
i actually think its even less likely to happen as time goes on
because there are fewer people for jagex to care about and want to fix the game for
restive storm
yeah, the jmods kinda fell off too sadly 🙁 they used to tell people to l2p and stop whining but in recent years they kinda just gone full carebear to make it as easy as possible to never die
meager flame
and by fewer i mean specifically people trying to pvp
idk how small that community is now but it has to look crazy
restive storm
definitely, the neglect will do that
meager flame
i wish they would tell us but they wont
restive storm
i actually just wanna hear their intentions so i can like quit or keep coping
meager flame
i mean they'd probably just tell you they care about pvp and have things planned
meager flame
they probably aren't even lying they just would resist the part where they'd say "however we have 85% of the community that doesn't engage with pvp in any meaningful way other than maybe getting pked once in awhile and we need to make content for them to stay in business"
oblique mesa
What do you want them to say, that 99.9% of their playerbase doesn't care about PvP so its super low on the prio list? lol
restive storm
What do you want them to say, that 99.9% of their playerbase doesn't care about ...
moreso what their intentions are, like are we happy that its basically impossible to die in singles currently? was that the design idea? Or is that something that they dont really like. Are there any more ideas for group content in singles? It was already done in dmm so we know it isnt totally off their radar
meager flame
they probably don't even know what they think about that
oblique mesa
"Basically impossible to die" go tell that to the redditors that bitch and moan every day about dying
restive storm
"Basically impossible to die" go tell that to the redditors that bitch and moan ...
i mean thats strictly a l2p issue, you really should not be dying in modern day singles lol
meager flame
i mean its true but also isn't true
restive storm
theres exceptions if someones hitting you in like 1b of gear, but those are pretty few and far between
oblique mesa
i mean thats strictly a l2p issue, you really should not be dying in modern day ...
Yes but that is how most players feel about the wildy
meager flame
you basically can't die if you play well outside of the part where you can just get stacked for more hp than you can possibly have
which is funny because basically
i think thats not very satisfying for most people no matter which end of that you land on
restive storm
Yes but that is how most players **feel** about the wildy
which is why i miss old jmods where they had the guts to tell people that maybe it was just that they're not good at the game
meager flame
i think the main problem is just that people can escape
but they can't fix that because then people playing their stupid minigame of try to escape with your loot couldn't play
like if you're actually fighting each other
should you be able to freeze log
absolutely not honestly
thats terrible game design lol
restive storm
thats what im talking about
the pj timer was a bandaid fix to whiners that they didnt really consider the impact of
and have left as is since they put it in despite it killing activity
chrome lantern
I don't think it's an unreasonable sentiment that if you're in singles you shouldn't be demolished by teams that spec you repeatedly
meager flame
yeah you shouldn't have that happening either
restive storm
there was already a spec timer to prevent that
chrome lantern
Even without specs it's absurd
meager flame
its just that everything else about the wilderness is also stupid
and they don't want to fix any of it
restive storm
you also have things liike npcs hitting off everyone on you
hobgoblins, drags etc
youd used to need like 4-5 people to even get a kill thru npcs lol
but people conveniently forget that
chrome lantern
I can also tell you that I didn't even know there was a spec timer, because PvP-specific info like that is just kinda not really easy to know
restive storm
I can also tell you that I didn't even know there was a spec timer, because PvP-...
it aint just u man dw, i hear plenty of people who make far more absurd claims by knowing even less about the game lol
no offense
chrome lantern
I mean I don't really even think it's absurd
restive storm
the "why not just go pk with friends in multi 🤓 " crowd im lookin @ u
chrome lantern
Of a claim
meager flame
i think they just need to rebuild the entire situation
oblique mesa
PKing with friends in multi is fun tho
meager flame
like
chrome lantern
I spent many hours in the wildy pre-changes and would've never possibly learned there was a spec timer
chrome lantern
All I see from my perspective is that I'm in a singles area and getting teamed
meager flame
but also
restive storm
I mean I don't really even think it's absurd
yeah no that one isnt absurd cuz it isnt said unless you're the one trying to spec
meager flame
you shouldn't be able to hehe let me just log out behind this tree either
restive storm
i just mean that theres way worse offenders than you not knowing that lol
meager flame
in the middle of fighting with another player
the logout timer should probably be like
minutes
if you were in combat with a person
not seconds
restive storm
so then.....
meager flame
until one of you dies
restive storm
do we have to make the pj timer minutes long? LMAO
oblique mesa
Eh then you would just get people X logging
meager flame
they already have a solution to that
just allow them to pj off of npcs so its not easy to x log
restive storm
just allow them to pj off of npcs so its not easy to x log
its utterly hilarious how much of a failure singles+ and they acknowledge that cuz you can only do this in certain places rn
after like 3 years
of the mechanic being in the game
meager flame
yeah that's because they want the rules of the game to subtly change and be mysterious at seemingly random locations
because they hate us or something
idk whats going on with that lol
restive storm
tbh i just think its cuz theyre lazy and want people to basically be able to never die in singles, but they have to allow it in certain places otherwise there is literally NO pking
cuz you can just box npcs/tele out without being able to be attacked
but yeah, thats whats always signaled to me that it isnt actually a good system and they know it lol
meager flame
i just have no idea why that isn't just a universal rule across the entire game
where players can always attack you and interrupt combat with npcs
if you're attackable
oblique mesa
iirc it used to be
restive storm
iirc it used to be
it didnt
meager flame
like i legit dont see a reason that the entire game doesn't work that way by default
meager flame
singles+ afaik is a solution that got rolled out to a few locations and they promptly forgot it existed
restive storm
i havent forgotten dw xD
meager flame
idk why it even exists the way it does
restive storm
at this point i dont even care if they brought back the last hit system, the way the timer was actually polled
meager flame
i dont think we really needed another variant on like the combat state between singles and multi
restive storm
before they ninja changed it last second
meager flame
its like they were trying to be confusing on purpose lol
just make singles make sense everywhere
oblique mesa
Singles+ is spaghetti code too, you can get PJ'd by an NPC while standing in singles+ trying to attack someone in a multi area
meager flame
tbf the whole thing is insane
restive storm
that was a problem day 1 that people complained about, they know and they still dont know how to fix it
when it worked perfectly fine before
meager flame
these are the same guys that just let multi and singles happen with nothing on the screen to show you when its going to happen
like lol
the wilderness was a really cool idea but it was designed very poorly
restive storm
im usually one for tradition, but in modern day even ill admit that thats insane
restive storm
honestly, i think it was really well designed, and then they did a poor job updating it and made it worse
things like NPC packs being put there so that you can use them to hit pkers off you was really good design, but we threw iit away lol
meager flame
ya i mean i used to escape into the bats and staircases near mage bank and log out all the time back in the day
oblique mesa
Dunno if you can really make it resonate with the current playerbase anyway.
All the dads with their 5 wives, 10 jobs, and 15 kids want everything to be AFK
restive storm
ya i mean i used to escape into the bats and staircases near mage bank and log o...
exactly
restive storm
was literally more noob friendly than freeze logging is lol
analog crow
When the meta becomes quitting the game you know you have a real stinker on your hands
minor whale
That's always been the escape method since the early days
It's just how mechanics work, I don't really see a viable alternate that doesn't kill being in the wilderness outright
analog crow
If the reward incentive was changed away from the current winner-takes-all model, there would be room for more restrictions around logging out
Dunno how'd they do it
Seen many ideas though
Like if you keep what you brought in etc, but the balance is hard
chrome lantern
Not risking your items in pvp is definitely a take of all time
analog crow
Yeah it's not like there exist other pvp systems than full loot
Keep what you bring has another great feature: it’s Ironman friendly
(Cue the daily anti-iron circle-jerk)
icy relic
You can't tout RS as the game where you work for your gear and progression and then be like haha go have fun throwing it all away
Sure, some people will enjoy the thrill of risking but the era in which wildy was really popular was just standing outside varrock/edge ddsing people
restive storm
Yeah it's not like there exist other pvp systems than full loot
we removed the wildy before and it was turbo lame, def dont wanna do that again
icy relic
It was not lame
analog crow
we removed the wildy before and it was turbo lame, def dont wanna do that again
You can still have your pvp enabled area don’t worry
restive storm
it was super lame
icy relic
People voted it back for the vibes yet did not play it because the game had already fundamentally changed
The game AND its players changed
analog crow
Yeah it was nostalgia bait
restive storm
?? plenty of people played it idk what youre talking ab lol
icy relic
The wildy was also a part of the effort to remove all forms of RWT
chrome lantern
Keep what you bring has another great feature: it’s Ironman friendly <:scronglyb...
What does that even mean
icy relic
Which is a lot ballsier and more respectable than whatever is going on now
chrome lantern
It sounds like you’re describing not risking anything
restive storm
What does that even mean
he just wants to be afk and never lose progress while making the content more braindead
analog crow
It sounds like you’re describing not risking anything
You risk whatever you earned in the wild
It’s not a complicated idea
chrome lantern
That’s pretty awful because you already just bank when you get anything of value
analog crow
As if you don’t do that today
chrome lantern
I don’t think it’s productive to just encourage everyone to bring full masori and justi either
restive storm
omg itd be a nightmare lol
chrome lantern
And it would completely kill pker fights
analog crow
God forbid we use the gear the game offers
chrome lantern
You do, at a risk
restive storm
the rev cavers do all the time
analog crow
Hell no
restive storm
ok then, the game IS letting you use the gear, you're just afraid to
chrome lantern
It’s entirely preying on rev bots because there’s no point killing a pker
analog crow
If I get a purp the last thing I do is bring it to the wild
You’re tripping
minor whale
People when asked to revamp the Wildy and half the comments you get are "make it safer and less risky and also nobody likes this anyway!"
And it's always the shitters who have no clue how to tank or escape who want the loot system changed or to prevent losing gear you "earned"
chrome lantern
If you keep everything you brought there is no more actual pvp
Because there’s no benefit to killing a pker anymore
restive storm
"let us use the gear we get" and then when told you can literally wear the gear out there they said "not like that!"
chrome lantern
It becomes the safest thing in existence and just encourages preying on bots
And ignoring real players
icy relic
I'm glad they added cannonball stalls because that was so much better than suiciding rogues chest
chrome lantern
Idk I would still take the loot
2m+/hr is hard to beat, especially on an iron where the blighted supplies are worth more than the 100gp bots have pushed them down to
icy relic
I'm way past the point where I care about that loot, used to have a really convoluted system to bank with an alt without leaving
chrome lantern
Eggs, runes, etc.
icy relic
but otherwise it's so hard to get out with the loot especially these days
I get hit so often on every world it's not even worth it for the exp
chrome lantern
I banked every 200 chests and only got attacked 3 times from 95-99 when I maxed my iron idk
minor whale
Rogue Chests are like 50% higher XP even counting deaths
chrome lantern
It was @obsidian venture actually that pked me
chrome lantern
Rogue Chests are like 50% higher XP even counting deaths
Nah max eff chest is like 300k and the cball stall is like 240 isn’t it
It’s still better but not 50%
But yeah I was on the old 2.2k worlds though
icy relic
it was barely better with the frequency I was getting hit at
chrome lantern
3 times attacked, 1 time dead
icy relic
there was a period I could go 4-5 hours uninterrupted
chrome lantern
I almost never saw people idk
icy relic
but recently it's been unplayable
chrome lantern
I haven’t done it much in the last year since I maxed the iron
Got 99 thieving on like Jan 2nd this year
Did some on my GIM but was still like 260k and banked vast majority of loot
icy relic
haven't ever gotten hit at black chins though on 2350 worlds
tender peak
I think I may have been the only person doing rogue chests before they were updated lol
got all my dragonstones for jewellery box there
chrome lantern
I did them for hard clues
hasty shard
i do want to see a no risk world with heavy restrictions as an experiment tbh
heavy restrictions being just disabling shit like chaos altar wildy course and rogues chest
restive storm
i mena youd have to remove loot from every monster too lol
hasty shard
do you know the concept of resource competition
restive storm
disable clue steps etc
restive storm
do you know the concept of resource competition
sounds totally foreign m8
analog crow
"let us use the gear we get" and then when told you can literally wear the gear ...
Enjoy the dead wildy
The wildy you are dreaming about is never gonna come back
So choose your poison
restive storm
<:Shrug:1397203684584325160>
Enjoy the dead wildy
The wildy you are dreaming ab...
i dont think itll ever get fully back to the way it was, but they 100% can improve it a lot
analog crow
If you think «keep what you bring» is zero risk then you’re just admitting to a lack of imagination.
Many ways to keep the risk aspect if that’s something you’re passionate about.
To name one that I hope nobody missed, you keep the same grave/death’s office reclaim fees but the fees go to the pker.
floral blaze
i actually just wanna hear their intentions so i can like quit or keep coping
Fax 💯
Last bit of hope I have in me is reserved for the Winter summit
hasty shard
If you think «keep what you bring» is zero risk then you’re just admitting to a ...
would you just immediately fleece someone of 500k cause you do gotta manually pay death fees
oh right thats how wildy already does entry fees
nvm
restive storm
If you think «keep what you bring» is zero risk then you’re just admitting to a ...
"keep what you bring" literally removes pker vs pker interactions lol i dont get how you think that making it solely predator vs prey and never two prey fighting each other would be a good idea. Also that fees thing is just lame as it cuts risk to essentially 0
restive storm
Last bit of hope I have in me is reserved for the Winter summit
ive said that the last 2-3 and theyve just been awful
analog crow
"keep what you bring" literally removes pker vs pker interactions lol i dont get...
This weak rejection accomplishes nothing
Being able to bring your gear to the wildy without losing it would remove the biggest hurdle for people who hate the wildy, and saying fees is zero risk is simply incorrect. It will still be good gp/hr for a good player fighting geared opponents.
small anvil
these complaints sound like " idont wanna risk anything" in disguise
if you want people fighting in top tier gear then sure make it a flat risk world, 5m buy in
analog crow
if you want people fighting in top tier gear then sure make it a flat risk world...
Sure, many risk models are possible
small anvil
people wont do it but at least thats honest about why
obsidian venture
How would it be better gp/hr if folks are bringing max gear for no loss? Is there a gp drop for pkers that helps this? People already escaping with a dihns and dhide unless you’re risking over 300m as a pker, which already has impacted folks risking avg or med sets
If you can wear full Masori and if someone a pker can kill you with a full or half tb, they should get some gp for that with your suggestion
analog crow
How would it be better gp/hr if folks are bringing max gear for no loss? Is ther...
Won’t be better than it currently is
Will be considerably less but still good
small anvil
people are mostly just arguing in bad faith i feel
when they say they want to bring all their gear
obsidian venture
No it’d just be straight ass for pkers
small anvil
they want the upside without risk
obsidian venture
Sounds like folks just wanna be coddled more as a pvmer and that’s pretty dull
Keep in mind I mainly pvm
analog crow
The funny thing is when people complain that the wildy is dead but blow smoke whenever they see an idea about making it more accessible
obsidian venture
If you’re going to bring max, there should be more “risk” or gp incentive to compensate
chrome lantern
Wouldn't a flat standardized risk just make it a lot harder to actually get into pking because you need to have significantly more expensive gear than what you're actually risking
obsidian venture
As a unskulled pvmer
Yeah like I don’t think they think this through
It’s just a suggestion that doesn’t account for what is currently happening
chrome lantern
Like now if I want to be in the high-end 5m risk world I need to have 2b worth of gear to have a remote chance
restive storm
The funny thing is when people complain that the wildy is dead but blow smoke wh...
"making it more accessible" the way you're talking about it is literally just deleting it for the people who have been out there pking for 20 years lol
analog crow
"making it more accessible" the way you're talking about it is literally just de...
It’s on life support anyway if I’m to believe what I’m hearing
restive storm
you know how boring it would be to get a big KO and theres just coins sitting on the ground? lol
it is dont get me wrong, its really dead but the ideas youre suggesting would only kill it more
small anvil
like its just bad faith arguing about "saving" the wildy from people who want it dead
zenith pike
Like now if I want to be in the high-end 5m risk world I need to have 2b worth o...
Is 1.5b paying them off
small anvil
Wouldn't a flat standardized risk just make it a lot harder to actually get into...
you could modify it by doing some sorta death fee
similar to gravestone
chrome lantern
No, you would just need to have like ely, masori, torva, zcb in order to have any chance of fighting a pker
small anvil
but thats just work to do
chrome lantern
That's what I mean
restive storm
you could modify it by doing some sorta death fee
whats the difference between a sorta death fee, and just losing your stuff as you do now? lol
small anvil
or just like gp brackets
analog crow
it is dont get me wrong, its really dead but the ideas youre suggesting would on...
If it’s dead then the focus should be on getting new people in, not preserving the old carcass without any meat left on the bone
small anvil
whats the difference between a sorta death fee, and just losing your stuff as yo...
people might be willing to risk 5m when they wont risk 300
¯_(ツ)_/¯
analog crow
you could modify it by doing some sorta death fee
That was literally my suggestion
small anvil
i'm just saying thats the reasonable way to do a "dont lose everything" version of wildy
and its kinda shit anyway
analog crow
The current situation is also shit
restive storm
people might be willing to risk 5m when they wont risk 300
you can just go out in 5m of gear currently now?
obsidian venture
It’s just more fun seeing actual items
analog crow
Gotta pick your poison
small anvil
you can just go out in 5m of gear currently now?
point being that if the issue is REALLY "i cant use my good gear", thats the direction you would wanna go in
and trial it on a single world
(i dont think not being able to use the good gear is the issue)
restive storm
point being that if the issue is REALLY "i cant use my good gear", thats the dir...
the point is, that is not the actual issue, its just another scape goat that people want to point to and say "id participate if...xxxxxxx" its the same thing as the pj timer, everyone said theyd pk if it was 1v1s, and its even more dead than before lol
analog crow
(i dont think not being able to use the good gear is the issue)
For irons I’d say it’s a big issue
zenith pike
It’s just more fun seeing actual items
Sacrifices must be made, besides you’d most likely see items with the exception of ironmen if you made it 1:1
small anvil
i too think its mostly a red herring
restive storm
For irons I’d say it’s a big issue
irons are never gonna go out there to go pking except like 5 of them. Doing anything in the name of "making it more normal for irons to pk" is a total waste of time
chrome lantern
point being that if the issue is REALLY "i cant use my good gear", thats the dir...
No matter how you do it, it either becomes "how can I be at the tippy top of this risk bracket without going over," or, "how can I manipulate the risk brackets" or it just reflects what you're actually risking in the first place and there's no point in having the brackets
Irons are never going to be pking because you cannot and should not ever get anything from pking on an iron
Because if you did it would just be wealth transfer to an iron
restive storm
Irons are never going to be pking because you cannot and should not ever get any...
absolutely, and changes should not be made to try and cater to them for that reason, it just isnt content built for them
analog crow
irons are never gonna go out there to go pking except like 5 of them. Doing anyt...
Modern osrs is largely ironscape whether you like it or not
Jagex will never dedicate major dev time to content that irons are effectively locked out of
restive storm
locked out of? What are we talking about lol
chrome lantern
The Wilderness is extremely lucrative on ironmen so I'm not really sure what your point is
obsidian venture
Yeah that’s just cope
analog crow
If you go in rags sure
obsidian venture
Locked out 🤣
restive storm
thats one of the most unhinged takes ive heard in here
obsidian venture
Grown adults scared of a lil wildy in 2025
zenith pike
Because if you did it would just be wealth transfer to an iron
There kind of is a way
obsidian venture
🔥
chrome lantern
I don't feel like my gear/risk on my iron is any different than what I would risk on my main tbh
restive storm
Grown adults scared of a lil wildy in 2025
it fr blows my mind
chrome lantern
Other than I would bring more ether on a main
restive storm
they literally let irons get keys at this point while pking that they can swap to their main
idk how anyone could ever ask for more lol
obsidian venture
I mainly pot pvm content and I love what little remains about the wildy
It’s just fun and random. Key word random
chrome lantern
Obviously when I pk the pker for his tbow and scythe I should get the tbow and scythe in my clog on the iron
"Pker"
Definitely not my alt
small anvil
the premise is just flawed
sailing is coming at it from a make wildy easier pov
and its tainting anything they're saying IMO
dont really wanna "fix" the wildy
also a very very iron POV
which is kinda lol when talking about pking
analog crow
dont really wanna "fix" the wildy
One thing is for certain
There is no sense for me to waste any more time arguing with people who are more interested in talking to a version of me that only exists in their imagination.
So I’m out
Enjoy the dead wildy
restive storm
🫡 hope u can enjoy sailing to chief
analog crow
I’m salvaging as we speak
obsidian venture
I got 99 sailing so I’m locked in
restive storm
hit 99 on the main pures 96 now 
thank god this is almost over
idk how they flubbed that skill so bad
restive storm
i only didnt mind it cuz salvaging is basically a free skip, but its just so bare bones and kinda boring/unfinished
chrome lantern
It's kinda trivially easy to max sailing, I think they screwed up on the top-end upgrades though
small anvil
salvaging was just way too pushed
and jagex did the typical backpedal
when they tried to address it
chrome lantern
Mod Husky wanted everyone to spend 200m on a max boat or spend 200 hours on an iron
Then told us that would be how it is
Then it took until after it released for people to realize that's how it is
small anvil
it did feel a bit uh... padded out time wise
chrome lantern
It's based on making cloggers do 100 hours at every major piece of content, then forgets that you need multiple of those things if you actually want to upgrade your boat
small anvil
lots of clogs that take forever, low drop rates on everything
conclusion i drew was that they wanted to keep people busy
obsidian venture
Yeah
restive storm
salvaging was just way too pushed
mostly cuz the other content was so unfinished, like i did port tasks for like 5m xp and got 45 shark paint and 5m gp
felt pretty lame
obsidian venture
Working on salvors paint atm
small anvil
i got paint around rate just under it
obsidian venture
It’s fine I get to watch/read
icy relic
You also don't need to greenlog a lot of content normally
chrome lantern
I did like 30k martial salvage without the paint and realized I really don't care about getting my sloop merchant paint anymore tbh
I have 3 inky paints so it's unfortunate
icy relic
If you get spooned or hit the thing(s) you care about
small anvil
also i think salvage station was a mistake kinda
obviously would have needed rebalancing
but it just made salvaging an island that no one wanted to leave
chrome lantern
I mean I'll be real
The alternative of making Trials or port tasks the only ways people train is worse in some ways
I think that salvaging xp rates are still too generous though, and Jagex themselves said this before release
small anvil
port tasks were so underbaked in comparison
they could have been the most interesting
trials were also kinda too static
nice for the speedrunner types
chrome lantern
I would also prefer if they doubled trawling xp and entirely eliminated the spam-click method of trawling
hasty shard
Mod Husky wanted everyone to spend 200m on a max boat or spend 200 hours on an i...
ok whats funny is that this shit released and it was basically entirely optional
the only actual grind you really needed to do for a notable buff was 300-900 nails for rosewood hulls
and now its like technically worse as they've been buffing things like keels and helms n all
chrome lantern
The dragon hooks and cannons are extremely powerful if you intend to pursue the other drops, but basically the only things you need outside of Sailing are the greater tele focus (for Sailing locations and clue steps that got added) and trawling fish
Keel and hull are pretty huge for combat though (which is in an awful place)
hasty shard
ik people who have gone dry enough on hook for it to not even benefit grinding to 200m they might be too rare
chrome lantern
Yeah I like trawling in terms of fish/hr but in terms of actually trawling progression it kinda sucks
chrome lantern
ik people who have gone dry enough on hook for it to not even benefit grinding t...
Yeah I wasn't defending the drop rate
Just that it is actually an impactful thing
chrome lantern
Sure, for now
hasty shard
yeah 
chrome lantern
Yeah I like trawling in terms of fish/hr but in terms of actually trawling progr...
Oh and going back to this
Burn rates are insane
Even giant krill scale +2% cook success rate per level starting at 45%
Marlins are like 6% per level
People shouldn't feel the need to Chef's Delight boost to cook their sailing fish
hasty shard
part of me feels like 99 cooking is a fair req since its such a fast skill tbh
steeper skill reqs on other stuff would be nice 😮💨
like, it'd be nice if a lot of skills actually incentivised you to train them for the skill and not just diary/quest reqs
glances at smithing
and hunter
kinda
chrome lantern
From an iron perspective it's pretty awful xd I unlocked the level to trawl and cook krill and get less than half of them
When they're higher req, more attack delay, and super high burn rate to heal less than bwans
At least the low-tier trawling fish just feel... off
hasty shard
agree
krill are dumb honestly they're literally like 100gp right now
why the fuck did they add multiple double digit hour grinds for big fish clogs
keep profitability with low xp my ass
icy relic
Engagement treadmill
narrow folio
Might as well just raise the xp anyway
chrome lantern
This is on my low-level iron I've been playing
hasty shard
exactly!!!
icy relic
Just to bump up the hours played
chrome lantern
Because I wanted to see what Sailing is actually like progressing through the skill
I've barely gotten any fishing xp
icy relic
I don't like being cynical about these things but it's pretty clear at this point when Jagex isn't even trying to defend the rates like 'oh of course you should be expected to spend 100 hours on oathplate'
chrome lantern
wym oathplate
icy relic
Instead of unlocking a ship teleport every 20 levels or whatever, you just don't get the teleports at all until you get the bottled storms
chrome lantern
5 ofem
hasty shard
i wish you could get like one use boat teleports tbh
chrome lantern
Because they added new teleports and clue steps that only screw you over when doing clues and add nothing else to the game
icy relic
So the main draw of sailing, which is being able to access the islands, is not even available to you from leveling to 99
Unless you go grind storms or buy them
Not even the skillcape lets you teleport to a single ship
chrome lantern
Based on currently requiring the bottled storm, it wouldn't make sense for the cape to do that given how easy it is to get
icy relic
Compare this to the PoH
chrome lantern
But it should at least cast the spell if you have the facility
icy relic
I think it makes perfect sense because we shouldn't accept Jagex's shit implementation as the baseline for what our expectations are
Otherwise you start from a flawed premise that the teleport should be gated behind a 1/500 drop from krakens
chrome lantern
Yeah I think it would be more than fine to have been the baseline expectation of what the cape does
But I understand why it doesn't bypass the storm req from their design
hasty shard
kinda funny how bad the cape is
chrome lantern
When they did the Sailing prerelease and we could see the functions on the max cape
I assumed the option "Teleport (Pandemonium)" was just Teleport to Boat, and it defaulted to Pandemonium before I finished the quest and actually had a boat
icy relic
I was dreading them not changing anything especially since they were like oh yeah this is a work in progress
chrome lantern
Because it seemed like a very rational assumption
icy relic
But they delivered exactly what they pitched and nothing more
hasty shard
I was dreading them not changing anything especially since they were like oh yea...
mfw sailing ""beta"" was identical to the alpha
chrome lantern
And they had talked about things like the Brittle Island cannonball forge being based around teleproting to the ship
narrow folio
Teleport focus shouldve been a onetime poh upgrade 🥱
chrome lantern
There wasn't really ever a point until after the skill released that I was under the impression teleporting to your boat would be difficult
But here we are, still dry on the other 2 bottles 
(190 more kc on mobile with a third paint)
icy relic
Certer doesn't even solve the issue
hasty shard
it took me 1600 for my bottle
icy relic
4 cannonballs a bar for ship combat is absurd
chrome lantern
I'll worry about 2x faster when they 10x the cannoball volume yeah
chrome lantern
<:scrongle:1437386822887018507> it took me 1600 for my bottle
Same for my first
icy relic
4 cannonballs from a steel bar for multicannon use is fine
hasty shard
it'd be better if they just did more damage imo
chrome lantern
There's too much disparity between the tiers for how rare/expensive high-tier cballs are
Like at least with ranged ammo you don't have accuracy on arrows and bolts
hasty shard
like if i can only get 0.5 dragon balls per vampyre kraken can they like
actually do damage
chrome lantern
Comical difference in accuracy/damage up the tiers
I did accidentally use some of my dragon cannonballs once
They do a lot of damage
They're just too scarce
chrome lantern
true talon
sheesh if ship combat is good, they gonna have to not be so greedy with dragon cannon/balls
chrome lantern
every 5t? i forget how fast cannons are
5 yeah
But yeah comparing mith cballs for instance
With a dragon cannon
192 accuracy 68 str vs. dragon at 242 accuracy 194 str
That's insane
nocturne solstice
why is that insane? isnt dragon usually 3x mith stats at least str wise for ammo?
nocturne solstice
personally with the extremely high cost and the more damage just being a higher max hit, I haven't felt like it was worth it enough to feel insane
Still hitting 1s and no ava's device is big ouch
chrome lantern
1.) As you just pointed out, the extremely high cost is disproportionately high
2.) No other ammo in the game works like this. All ranged ammo, and all spells, roll the same accuracy and don't compound the scarcity of high-tier ammo even more by doing both
nocturne solstice
What do you mean no other ammo works like this? Dont knives work like this too?
chrome lantern
I would consider knives to be a consumable weapon more than an ammo but sure. Knives aren't really used anywhere of note though
chrome lantern
The only relevant uses of knives are only dragon knives and training on crabs at low level, because even high-tier knives have very low accuracy
nocturne solstice
Dragon knives are frequently used in Doom and PVP but I think this is going down too far of a tangent
chrome lantern
Yeah as I said dragon knives
If we did continue down that though, dragon knives are the epitome of scarcity
Might even be a better illustration of this issue than cballs tbh
For cannonballs in particular though we also have the issue that even though you can make rune cannonballs, in effect they're just a cheaper variant of a drop-only cannonball like dragon cannonballs are
It will never be worth turning a runite bar into cannonballs, nor adamant even tbh with how few you get per bar
So that leaves us with mith cballs or very scarce cball drops
icy relic
D knives are just whipped out for the spec
And they are hardly needed with blowpipe and sidewalk tech
true talon
Now that awakener orbs are less than the actual death fee, can we get rid of them?
(as someone with 500 on my main for practice) i wouldnt even care if they were gone.
restive siren
before we get rid of those we need to get rid of chromium ingots
true talon
before we get rid of those we need to get rid of chromium ingots
they are gone kinda
chrome lantern
They should’ve been entirely eliminated long ago
true talon
Personally they could remove them off the table. the method to produce them is good and sinks a lot of gp.
chrome lantern
Replaced with gp
chrome lantern
The method to make them isn’t relevant to mains
Because statistically there are way more ingots in the game than 3xvestiges
true talon
Well mains would still have to make them as they cant sell the ultor
chrome lantern
And always will be
true talon
vestiege
chrome lantern
For one thing there’s way too many ingots already in the game
But my point is that right now it isn’t a sink
true talon
in 2026 we need a project DT boss adjustment.
Remove ingots, remove awakener orbs. and thats the project.
chrome lantern
Because mains don’t use it
torpid delta
hits blunt
let me make a chromium keel with my extra ingots jagex
icy relic
chromium bolts
meager flame
chromium cannonballs
that way when people see you shoot them they think wow that guy grinded forever
narrow folio
would still be easier than damn dragon cannonballs
true talon
I tried to buy these 5m each on my pure and you cant get them.........
squid beak is absolutely insanely to rare....... or the content is so bad that no1 farms it.
icy relic
Yeah same
true talon
? Rosewood and beak are around 1.5m
ya i managed to get all 3 for 1.5m ech but i had put a 5m offer for the camphor an it didnt buy lol
Standard blowpipe is 15m right now for some reason lol
chrome lantern
I got a squid beak I don’t really think it’s that crazy for something you only need once, but it does seem excessive for what it is
You don’t need a unique drop to make a magic shortbow
It wouldn’t really be problematic if you could just straight-up fletch the sailing blowpipes
chrome lantern
It’s kinda weirder that they don’t have a real fletching usage
Tecu is also kinda weird yeah
Because there hasn’t really ever been a point that they’re like
Remotely good money to hunt per hour
So it’s just a layer of scarcity that doesn’t need to be there
[[Tecu salamander]]
ornate wolfBOT
Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Tecu_salamander
chrome lantern
If the intent is just to not make it a rag weapon, add a 100k fee for it to convert into a weapon that works in the wilderness
icy relic
It's just really annoying
That everything is just harder to obtain even when it is not that useful
The philosophy previously applied to BiS gear is just the new normal
true talon
Ya i thought the rosewood and other lower tier blowpipes could be filler items till blowpipe and also a good revs wep
but for some reason they tacked on the squid beak which is a 1/512 from the highest tier squid, your better off doing zulrah
chrome lantern
Clearly that’s an exaggeration but it is excessive
I think the msb is a better parallel
true talon
Rosewood tree is 92 woodcutting
chrome lantern
Even hscb
chrome lantern
Sure and msb is 50 ranged 80 fletching 75 wc
true talon
do you think an ironman at 65 range is going to have 84 fletching an 92 woodcutting + 80+ sailing?
chrome lantern
They just had to cram it in higher than msb even though it didn’t make sense there