game-update

[ancient ember]

Yes, keep an eye for the opinion poll going out today! 👀

"The poll will cover a range of key topics, including Ship Combat, Quality of Life improvements, and our current plans for Sailing content arriving in 2026."

[winged mantle]

Will it contain feedback on drop rates?

[ancient ember]

Mod Light knows the contents of the opinion poll the best, I'd say stay tuned for around <t:1765981846:t> today and you'll be able to access the poll 🙂

[ember token]

quick question Yume, is it still planned for the next Qol poll to be about teleportation?

was mentioned awhile ago now and i don’t exactly remember where

[wispy bough]

@ancient ember Is there any update on the boat speed boost lasting like 2 seconds when a crew mate is driving the boat?

stands out a lot when doing marlin fishing

[ember token]

or rather, next non-Sailing qol poll, that is

[brave hearth]

Do we have any updates on account switcher for mobile? I might have missed it.

[ancient ember]

This is on our radar 🙏

[hasty shard]

is it going to be patched entirely, or are crew still intended to have a reduced effect on wind speed, like the xp reductions?

[odd ravine]

@ancient ember any confirmation on whether handing in multiple port tasks will roll pet rate independently for the pet? thanks🙏

[brave hearth]

I had to search and last mention was by the end of the year. I'm assuming this got moved?

[shy sentinel]

Question about Diabolic worms, is Heron pet actually faster to get using them?

[final valley]

Anyone else than me who cant find some of the new name tags for the runepouch?
Cant seem to find "Lunars" "Death Charge"

[arctic island]

It also looks like they slightly tweaked the combination rune inventory sprites

[trail moon]

i planted rosewood tree and paid for protection at angler's retreat last week and went to collect today but it was gone (patch cleared and filled with weed). Is this a known bug by any chance? Can't be a rollback as I planted in all other patches right after (in same session) and those are fine. I went to check and auto-weed was still on. Tried to rake to plant another but it just turned into a fully-grown tree and gave me the check-health xp.

[analog crow]

@ancient ember Looking forward to seeing the survey today. About a year ago(?) there was a similar opinion survey about the Wilderness/PVP. We never got to see the results of that one or any indication of what Jagex learned from it. Is there any chance we'll ever see that for that survey or this one?

[tawny tide]

Can't wait to tear this survey apart

[tawny tide]

Oh wow it was 2:30 Cambridge time.

Cool.

[wispy bough]

is the poll supposed to ask gp/hr of trials. Seems like a moot question unless the plan to make it generate gp in the future

[arctic island]

Pretty sure its a known issue discussed in the Sailing bugs channel

[tawny tide]

I think it's on the xp side of xp/gp tradeoffs

I bet a lot of people are about to say in the poll that salvaging is too much xp/hr lol

[bronze kernel]

Technically speaking, Tempor Tantrum rewards oak plank vouchers. Which in a way is GP/hr. Don't think any other trails give such rewards

[carmine junco]

Arguably it is, compared to most other low intensity activities. Though I'm mostly indifferent on it. I'm happy with fishing infernal eels and that's like 30k xp/hr

[tawny tide]

I'm in the same boat, partner.

[carmine junco]

I'm very much looking forward to the results of the poll.

[idle rapids]

Baricuda paints too

Worth a few million

[bronze kernel]

Yeah, but it's like about a 16 hour grind on rate at Tempor Tantrum

[idle rapids]

Well yea Id go for it at gwenith glide instead

The person you replied to before just said trials not TT

[shy sentinel]

Brightside of the current Poll, Jagex should get to read a good amount of feedback from players that care about the game

I'd imagine weekly andys ain't spending their time to answer that behemoth of a poll

[austere mulch]

That’s also relative to other fishing xp/hr though. Non tick manipulation barb fishing for example is around 60k xp in the 90s

Just becomes a question of what people want the standard to be

Relative to more active methods

Redwoods are generally loved because they are great xp and super low attention

[carmine junco]

True. I don't mind if they keep the xp rates as they are, but I wouldn't be too disappointed if they reduced them somewhat either is mostly my point.

I generally have a strong dislike for 'drop item' methods so the good xp is a nice incentive for salvage to deal with that, whereas barb fishing just annoys me because you get nothing from it and have to drop inventories of mostly useless fish.

[oblique mesa]

I couldn't find a good place to articulate that 🙁

[tawny tide]

\s?

[oblique mesa]

It just asked if you were satisfied or not with xp rates. Which I kinda assumed meant you either wanted more for the activity not less

[tulip jolt]

Roll all

How do I join voice ?

It won’t let me

[small anvil]

#🎤voice-access

[tawny tide]

Nah I think they meant unsatisfied with how high they are. Remember they wanted/want it buffed lol

[oblique mesa]

Also wish I could vote no twice on escort quests in runescape lmao

Can't think of any game where escorting an NPC from point A to point B has been fun it is certainly old school though

[chrome lantern]

From what I could tell this was actually a RuneLite issue, as when I toggled GPU it fixed itself for me.

[near widget]

when i just logged in, I had issues clicking on the red Play Now button. Had to click on newspost to play. Then, the game was stuttery and the interfaces were flickering. Inventory appeared empty when it wasnt (opening the sailing chest showed the stuff). worn inventory menu flickered and gltiched when opened. Logged out and back in fixed everything, but it might be worth looking into.

also note the chatbox area being glitchy

not 100% sure if inventory was empty before openingsailing chest as well, didnt really focus there yet

though i think it was

[languid dew]

Looks like rune pouch is bugged

[fringe rivet]

I have to say this Poll is a little inconsiderate:

Only an option for those who dislike combat, but not for those who don't completely hate it?

Like don't get me wrong, there's a lot wrong with it

[small anvil]

Should be what do you dislike about

[thick beacon]

they had something similar with other questions in past

[small anvil]

With a none of the above

[thick beacon]

think if u said u hated quests u still had to talk about what u liked about them

[small anvil]

(jagex is kinda awful at writing good survey questions tbh)

[fringe rivet]

same thing for this

they'll ask if you're unhappy about something, but not why

like yeah I'm unhappy about salvaging, but not for the reasons they're going to assume

what kind of a goddamn question is this?

isn't it like

[meager flame]

Makes sense

[fringe rivet]

literally suppose to do this?

[meager flame]

They know it sucks and want to know what people dislike the most

[ember token]

indeed which is why the question is presumably asking if it should be made even faster

[fringe rivet]

the point of a poll is to get accurate data

or at least try to

[meager flame]

Yes about the topics they want information and data on

They honestly probably don’t particularly care why the 1 in a million guy likes it rn

[fringe rivet]

It wouldn't hurt to ask such a thing

[near widget]

Updated the message shown when activated Viggora’s or Ursine chainmaces run out of charge, reminding you to uncharge them to continue using them.

Uhm... shouldn't this state that it should remind you to CHARGE them?

Little typo there 😛

oh wait im a f***ing idiot

got my chainmace drop a few days ago and went vetion with it, never upgrading it

damn im stupid XD

ah its only a 5% difference

[chrome lantern]

It does but it still sucks

[fringe rivet]

I know.

It's in a horrible spot

[chrome lantern]

I'm still waiting for a Sailing update that changes literally anything about how I interact with this skill.

[fringe rivet]

It wouldn't be as bad if they implemented it like it was polled

[chrome lantern]

It would be bad, but not for the same reasons

It would be bad because the Greater Teleport Focus is a very high hurdle to get

[chrome lantern]

But yeah it's not possible to convey with the survey questions that I'm dissatisfied with the xp rates of Barracuda Trials and Salvaging for being too high whereas someone could give the exact same survey response and mean that the rates are too low

[small anvil]

Bad survey design begets bad data begets bad decisions because they don't actually understand what people feel

[meager flame]

tbf

i think people have already said way more than enough before the survey

it feels almost political or something that its several weeks later they haven't done much people have been yelling for a month

and now we get a survey

lmao

[chrome lantern]

It's largely to cover all their bases and compile information from all the platforms since they tend to focus most heaily on Reddit probably

And also to tide over opinion until after holiday

[meager flame]

i think it would make sense if like

the survey had come out much more quickly

but you cant really go anywhere that people discuss the game without seeing the exact same thing worded differently

[fringe rivet]

that's not the point of a poll though
just cuz reddit is loud doesn't mean it's an accurate representation

[meager flame]

its just weird mostly because we're firmly in the "you should've already been doing something" phase

and less in the "what do ppl think" phase

[meager flame]

it doesn't even matter you could take your feedback and fully exclude reddit

and it would be the same

[fringe rivet]

that's like, your opinion man

[meager flame]

its not like they've barely missed here and some opinions are super divided

cannons suck

cannonballs suck even more

[meager flame]

honestly i do think similarly but that's not even what im saying

i can just read

you see the same thing everywhere

[fringe rivet]

by the same loud mouthed individuals

during the salvage nerfs, salvage worlds were still full to the brim

[meager flame]

like if they wanted to discuss a bunch of potential changes i could see that being a lot more useful but if they want to discuss if people like something or not idk waste of time at this point

[small anvil]

I just think jagex uses polls for an agenda rather than objective data collection far too much

That they're not in the habit of being able to get good data even when they might not have an agenda

[meager flame]

idk i think some of the survey is fine when they get into talking about suggested changes/fixes

they're understandably mostly asking about ship combat

the only thing i'd say they should have spent more time on

is that port tasks should be giving people rewards other than just gp and be worthwhile

which was in there but

they basically spent as little time on that idea as possible

[chrome lantern]

There's not nearly enough free feedback space for the survey tbh

[meager flame]

question 17 made me laugh

i imagine that ones going to be getting a lot of people checking the entire list

[meager flame]

also tbh i think the problem with this is just

they say they read this stuff but im pretty sure if 30k of us give freeform feedback they don't employ enough people to actually use that feedback

thats when stuff like the dreaded reddit etc takes over because it starts filtering for popular ideas

and they can actually handle that

[small anvil]

Yeah, no ones gonna read all the free text fields, maybe you include it so that people with an odd voting behavior could be isolated then looked into

But like good survey design isn't that hard... It's just a bit more of: oh of course they can't write good questions they have 0 experience with polls where they actually try to get feedback, not just get things to pass

[bronze kernel]

It's a 1/400 drop rate at Gwenith Glide. It's 1/240 at Tempor Tantrum. It's 6 minutes per run for GG. 4 minutes for TT. The choice is obvious. Assuming you are going specifically for the paint.

[signal hawk]

100% this, courier tasks are fine as is. Just need some some worthwhile rewards. Thematic rewards tied to ports would be nice but at minimum making rewards sailing related (trawling fish, rare dnails, etc.)

[slow whale]

Repoll blessed scythe

[round lintel]

in the very last question i added a piracy system aka assaulting the npc's trader ship or pirates npc ships

xD

Id love that combat and sailing xp

[sour crescent]

With the new foods from sailing, can Bounty Hunter supply crates be updated to allow for more variety, please?

I am currently using bluefin as my main food while pking, but once I have to open a crate, it's just anglers or mantas. This would be a really nice thing for BH!

[tacit wharf]

why

[hasty shard]

vs

[tacit wharf]

ahh, so thats a no from me then

[hasty shard]

blighted stuff is silly to me

[icy relic]

Yeah blighted supplies is a mistake

Letting pkers skip having to play the game

So they can just PK

[nocturne solstice]

i would also vote no on that

[fossil mural]

Just add blighted marlin and blighted halibut, make them untradeable so you have to farm them from wilderness content yourself instead of just throwing gold at the best food.

You love PKing, go out and PvM making yourself a target for PKers to get them

[narrow folio]

I think his complaint was not being able to put the marlin in the crate while anglers can (and they were bis food at the time).

I don't know what you guys mean by skipping the game? He can already buy those from the GE. This is just to allow them in the crate.

Thematically it's only allowed for blighted so there could be an update for that as anglers and mantas are no longer bis food. But you can use Marlin in normal inventory in BH anyway.

I use Marlin as an example of any of the new fish.

On the other hand if you want blighted new fish coming from crate drops, that would be a little controversial atm but definitely could come in the future.

[oblique mesa]

Blighted new fish being untradable would be cool. But I imagine that most people that just want to PK would bitch that they have to go be a weird not ironman ironman in sourcing their supplies

Making blighted versions of the new fish would impact the price of normal ones and jagex seems pretty keen to keep deep sea trawling a moneymaker

[narrow folio]

The point of blighted was to make pking less expensive and the new fish have real advantage, so theres two conflicting goals going on

I imagine they would look at how many fish are being sunk via pking and if blighted versions would impact the price much

[hard axle]

+1.

If the difference between pking and not pking was a 30k less gp, I’d want to see the survey or data that implies such.

Marlin is also a bitch to relatively get and little passive sources since it’s not been in the game as long compared to sharks, anglers, bwans

[true talon]

its not just marlin but also the upgraded bwan

All end game food has been changed and blighted is now just sharks when you pick manta but having 4 extra hp in your combo eat is massive

[meager flame]

tbh as annoying as it seems assuming you have the levels

the new food is actually pretty easy to get

[narrow folio]

Marlin should get a buff to acquisition at least

Actually aids how annoying it is

I dont get the hate over blighted supplies...ridiculous

[meager flame]

im pretty sure its not even bad

like around 500 an hour

[narrow folio]

Does that assume rosewood?

[true talon]

I love them, as an iron there is nothing better than early game super restore and high tier food while you train/boss in the wildy.

[narrow folio]

Yep

[meager flame]

yeah i mean why wouldn't it

[narrow folio]

Speaks for itself

[meager flame]

im pretty sure its more than 500 too but not too many people try to show their loot for this stuff

you also get some bluefin while you do it

[narrow folio]

Oh I forgot i was using mahog hull

Ill have access to a personal ironwood tree today and will run it back

[true talon]

I havnt done anything but sit in 1 spot picking up trash in the ocean XD

[hasty shard]

500-700

i got 600 earlier

[true talon]

trying to get a 1/20k drop

[narrow folio]

So 600-700

[hasty shard]

so its probably 700 with rosewood

[narrow folio]

Six...seven

[meager flame]

the only stuff i feel like is weird about trawling would be like

the spam clicking

i feel like its just weird

[small anvil]

i hate the spam clicking

[true talon]

im surprised we havnt had any changes to any sailing other than them ruining salvaging an then returning it

no QOL to trawling or other activities

[narrow folio]

Trawlings only been nerfed when they halved extractor xp

Very surprised they didnt compensate

[true talon]

if not for the crystal shards i wouldnt clikc this thing

[small anvil]

you dont trawl for sailing xp

also its funny that trawling has chance for 2 pets at once basically

[true talon]

I would have very much liked to train my sailing doing other activities, but due to the nature of dragon cannons will probably be used in the future, i gotta salvage for 40k to go on rate..... which is about 8m of the 13m sailing exp lol

[small anvil]

i really was hoping that they'd have addressed trawling wind duration and chum station having no apparent effect this week tho

[narrow folio]

I was expecting buffs to it from all the other updates today but theres not which is ???

1. Crew boost lasts too short
2. Scrolling every time to go between nets and setting sail
3. (Sailing) XP is dogshit

[small anvil]

i dont think it actually needs buffs

it gets a lot of fish per hour

and its not intended to be competitive for xp

its there to be an engaging resource generation activity

that retains profitability

[narrow folio]

If you look at afk salvaging, that xp completely shits on trawling which takes more effort. I'm not asking for meta xp rates

But currently it's way too little

[tacit wharf]

so

[hasty shard]

i dont trust it retaining profit ever

shit xp for gp seems to only be a thing with infernal shale and trawling i feel

if i want shit xp for money i'd go flip monkey nuts or something

[tacit wharf]

so then less people do it, driving up the price of the fish

which then makes people go back to it and fish

thus is the cycle, unless they add the new fish to monster drops, which tbh, they shouldnt

[hasty shard]

wide gesture to the like 60 hour clog grind for trawling

sarachnis type situation i feel

[narrow folio]

40k xp an hr feels fair

[hasty shard]

thats less than current xp/h

[narrow folio]

If this was afk i wouldnt say anything but it isnt

Wait whats current xp?

[hasty shard]

probably 55k/h max

[narrow folio]

I was getting like 30k

[hasty shard]

assuming rosewood

[narrow folio]

Fuckin rosewood

[hasty shard]

goddammnit uh

fishing xp i mean

i cant really care about the sailing 😭

[narrow folio]

Sailing not fishing

[hasty shard]

yeah no clue on the sailing

i feel like its around 30k/h though

fishing xp wise being conservative i think it should really cap at like 80k

if im being actually honest this shit should be competitive with barb xp rates 😭 why do i gotta click so much man

and u gotta fight the game to have boosts work etc etc

[hard axle]

Still not enough when brews are 64 hp a slot imo

The combo eat should at least be 64 total

a 2-3t additional attack delay is more dps loss than most people imagine, more than 1 brew sip lost of stats

[hasty shard]

and we have wonderous 44 hp slot heal for range activities now (90% of pvm)

[hard axle]

Armadyl Brew should've been Bandosian Brew imo

Ranged did not need more creep

[true talon]

its enough in pvp because now a triple eat is 24+20+16 instead of 22+18+16

i agree hard food is not strong enough in pvm

[hard axle]

pvm

good

[true talon]

but +4 hp in pvp is really good

[hard axle]

mhm

especially with more people pushing for overloads and shit

hard foods will be largely dead content since u can +16 hp with 0 dps loss once overloads are in the game

[true talon]

They should have just gave us overloads and been done with it

[hard axle]

no

[hasty shard]

remember when they added snowy knight mixes and had to hotfix them

[hard axle]

stop that

[hasty shard]

:catgriga:

[true talon]

overloads if i remember was a untradeable pot you had to make yourself

[hard axle]

untradeable doesn't mean shit

[true talon]

and you needed 96 herblore

[hard axle]

im still going towards 100k surge pot 4s

[hasty shard]

untradable pots are just annoying

[hard axle]

like, making supplies is rarely an issue

it doesn't add anything

[hasty shard]

why do i have to ironman shit as a main

[hard axle]

i've made 20k surge pot 4s already

[true talon]

because playing the game 🙂

[hard axle]

i will never use them up

and i use them at every content basically

so like...

same cd as overloads (5 mintes)

[icy relic]

Surge pots are really nice for tele out content

[meager flame]

i do think this is weird

lmao like some of these updates have had me sitting there like "okay but what about actually playing the game"

i dont even expect like a massive rework or anything asap either its just like

we really cant do anything about the cannonball shop in a month

[small anvil]

yeah this week was the last chance before next year basically

they wont change anything major on christmas eve i think

i hoped they'd do something

[true talon]

Hype to see the summit

[hasty shard]

not if we find a game breaking bug before christmas eve

[narrow folio]

let's see what their gulls are for next year

[hard axle]

it's wild how many suggestions are "add this so i can afk"

the amount of 20 minute afk agility methods locked behind sailing suggestions

[hasty shard]

afk treadmill that gives daeyalt shards

[ember grove]

People fucking hate agility and the suggestions should be taken as a sign the skill is loathed instead of as anything worthy of individual consideration

[true talon]

its to slow and not rewarding

biggest unlocks from agility is access to QOL shortcuts an thats it.

[ember grove]

It’s slow and miserable to train, and even the good and fun training method is so high attention for its lackluster rewards that it quickly becomes miserable again

[small anvil]

People whine too much

Agility is fine

Poh agility exists

[fossil mural]

Agility blows

Worst skill by far

[hasty shard]

i want trawling for agility

aka unnerfed diary cape brimhaven

[small anvil]

That would be herbi but with agility

Don't you enjoy sep seph

[fossil mural]

A 30k/hr method as interactive as shooting stars for agility would instantly generate 5+ filled 2000 population worlds of people spamming it to avoid having to interact with the skill.

[small anvil]

Ya cuz it would be ridiculous

Popularity doesn't mean it's good for the game

It would invalidate all other training

[narrow folio]

mindlessly clicking rooftops isnt really interacting tbf

[small anvil]

Sep is the brain on method

[narrow folio]

but thats what the skill mostly is

[small anvil]

Diversity of methods fine

[hasty shard]

ehhh

[fossil mural]

And sep would still be vastly superior for people who want to go as fast as possible, have fun

[hasty shard]

its just rooftops until floor 4

[small anvil]

Asking for stars level of interaction for 50% of Ardy rate is dumb

[hasty shard]

zzz

[small anvil]

And just a non serious suggestion borne of wanting it easy

[fossil mural]

It’s more like 35% Ardougne, but seriously rooftops are shit content

[hasty shard]

iirc brimhaven diary cape was competitive with sepulchre (i dont think it was better) but like yknow. you need diary cape

[tacit wharf]

ardy aint even bad, if u find a half decent show u can watch

[hasty shard]

they buffed nature rc with diary cape

[small anvil]

30k is 35%??? Please

Don't just invent numbers

[tacit wharf]

my avg ardy xp/hr was only 60-65k/hr

[small anvil]

Yes that's why I said 30k would be half

I'm all for more things like sep being added

[tacit wharf]

ya

[small anvil]

But afk with a real rate is just asking for the skill to be killed

Poh agility exists

That's the standard we should have for afk

Not mindlessly tripling the afk rate just cuz you want it easy

(a wholesale rebalance of rates would not be out of place on agil tho)

[hasty shard]

cough cough salvaging

[small anvil]

Yes salvaging was a travesty of jagex's own making

And they didn't have the fortitude to follow through with a real nerf

[narrow folio]

I get you want 99 sailing to be "prestigious" but it wasn't meant to be a hard skill...

[merry verge]

and also to a large extent, it would devalue everyone's high agility levels they've genuinely worked hard for if suddenly a shooting stars or salvaging equivalent super easy 5+ minutes 1 click afk method would arrive and everyone would rush 90+ agility while working or on second client

[merry verge]

Yeah I think salvaging being high exp rates even tho super afk is fine only because it is a new skill and they can set a precedent for whatever exp rates they want for the new skill

it doesn't have to take into account all the previous training methods, rates and historic rates and how hard or easy leveling the skill has been in past to respect OG players and everyone who has put in a lot of effort and time.
This integrity approach is really important for OSRS and a big part of it's success.

[hasty shard]

id honestly argue sailing is currently the easiest skill next to cooking/firemaking 😭

i was expecting something more in the midrange

[narrow folio]

except cooking and firemaking blow sailing rates out the water (no pun intended)

[hasty shard]

its probably helped a bit by taking longer to train on a new account due to needing con/smithing

im thinking on the low end

30 minute afk for the amount of xp salvaging gives you

actually what is firemaking xp/h my brain just resorts to wintertodt like most people do

wait ffs i said easy not fastest

cooking is easy cause you can just get cooking gauntlets and cook anglers or whatever to 99 for 200k/h

same for firemaking

[small anvil]

it's not about sailing being prestigious or hard, it's that the VAST majority of players opted to sit salvaging rather than doing anything else

including me

[hasty shard]

^

[small anvil]

the balance between afk (especially such a forgiving afk that salvaging was) and active methods

is like SO important

[small anvil]

i honestly don't care that much about "devaluing"

i have 99 and i wouldnt feel put out if they made it easier

balancing rates sensibly is fine, agility rewarding sep more would have been good

like jagex (and players) SHOULDNT want afk to be the way the majority of people interact with a skill.

but once something is in players hands, trying to take it back away sends people through the roof

[tacit wharf]

i mean look at 1hr clue despawn timer

[small anvil]

i think 1hr clue makes for some interesting things

the main argument people had against it was either that it wasn't polled, or that it made them feel "obligated"

1hr timer makes master tech available

[narrow folio]

shouldve just buffed the active skills instead of nerf salvaging

[small anvil]

glide is already like 250k/hr

thats plenty

[tacit wharf]

oh no salvaging afk needs a nerf

[small anvil]

afk salvaging shoulda topped out at like 60k

sorry, "active" salvaging

full afk should have topped at like ~30-40

like port tasks was the big thing to suffer

from salvage being so good

[tacit wharf]

ya and thats 180-200k/hr atm

[small anvil]

port tasks are like quite chill in reality

but you cant step away and still be making xp

[tacit wharf]

i mean thats any active activity

[small anvil]

salvage also locked people in

they parked and didnt move

salvage station maybe the culprit there

[tacit wharf]

no problem with active salvaging, my problem is with the afk salvaging where yr not on the hook at all and just sort

[narrow folio]

I have no idea why they didnt make any salvaging spot instanced for every player

[tacit wharf]

though i do agree even that could come down a little more on the xp/hr

[narrow folio]

if they really wanted to prevent the whole not moving thing, but jagex didn't

also keep in mind actual afk was nerfed 30% overall

active salvaging barely touched

[small anvil]

i think the gameplay loop would be better if you had to go back to port but it'd need a lot of tweaking to change it that drastically

[narrow folio]

so everything's sitting as intended right now

[hard axle]

even right now, it's still 40k/hr, 30 minutes afk between input, and empty out every 1.5 hours

like

[small anvil]

as it is, once you're there at the salvage spot, you dont wanna leave

[hard axle]

that's still dumb good

[narrow folio]

that makes a worse loop, you're just overengineering this method to make it less fun for everyone

[hard axle]

"less fun"

[narrow folio]

there's already a tradeoff with dropping loot

[hard axle]

u arent playing the game when u do this method

[small anvil]

and you're just like disconnected from the rest of the game

[hard axle]

i was tobbing while I left main to salvage

like bro?

[small anvil]

at least redwoods i'm willing to do smth else

[narrow folio]

whatever, i think jagex made the right call on this one and salvaging doesnt need more nerfs after those events

[small anvil]

salvage its like oh my herb sack is full but i dont wanna go back. Someone in clan asks for something "sorry i'm out on the water"

[narrow folio]

it's kind of fine right now

[small anvil]

Sailing was a chore everyone afk'd through instead of being a skill

because salvage was overtuned

[hard axle]

so fun that I was araming instead of watching it afk for 30 minutes

[narrow folio]

even if salvaging was nerfed again, almost everyone would still be salvaging because all the other methods require too much interaction to be worth the effort

like you don't realize this is a 2nd monitor game for a lot of people and that's fine

there could be more updates on the other methods to be made more streamlined

they cannot have terrible xp rates on the first new skill

[hard axle]

ngl, this is the same dumbass logic as 6 hour mining

and they said fuck it lmao

[narrow folio]

alright that's enough, I'm done with this conversation if this is what you come up with, thank god jagex isnt with you on this one

[hard axle]

"less fun" is not a objective measure

not even remotely

it was 25% ehp that could be attained and that was a bit high for 30 minute afk

that's all

[torpid delta]

i'll have you know i afk'd through sailing because jagex put like 15m worth of exp in clogs on it tyvm

(which is maybe its own problem)

[hard axle]

those clogs were just time sinks, can't defend that

[tacit wharf]

clogs are suppose to be time sinks

[small anvil]

the clogs were just keep them busy til next release stuff

0 creativity

[narrow folio]

basically sailing has numerous issues but the current state of salvaging aint one

[merry verge]

Guys, geekaleek has been preaching here, literally spot on feedback from him here, really great takes, it resonates so well for me.
I bet Jagex and the playerbase will eventually over time realize the truth that geekaleek has been preaching here, but only after at least another month of crunching the data from the sailing surveys where they will indeed realize and come to same conclusions as he has been preaching here, let's not hesitate to admit what the truth is here everyone 🙂

[hard axle]

like, anyone saying salvaging was balanced on release because "people liked it" is dumb

[small anvil]

its too late to change stuff

horse is out of the barn

[tacit wharf]

would still like a 10-15% nerf in xp for salvaging

[hard axle]

how many of those people who ask for a 20 minute afk agility method have suggested it to be a reasonable rate like 10k/hr?

Disregarding the fact that you can already do 20 minute afk agility for 10k/hr, I feel like most people making these types of suggestions would say 30k/hr, or 30% ehp while 20 minute afk

[small anvil]

there was one an hour ago

also suggested 30k an hr for stars lvl activity

[hard axle]

we saw this with bp nerf - community is fucking braindead idiotic when it comes to balance and frankly needs to be chained down

[small anvil]

so spot on there

literally want half of ardy just for clicking once

[tacit wharf]

like pissing an moaning about a boss's gp/hr being trash but it has 3 BIS slotted items on its drop table

wont mention names

[small anvil]

people mostly dont think about balance, they mostly think about getting what they want

its like... very common to have a conclusion then try to justify it with logic

it's just a very human way to do things, and a horrible way to approach game balance

[tacit wharf]

or a, let peple play how they want to play, arguement for why something should/shouldnt be changed

[hard axle]

or @finite tapir's favorite: "who does it hurt"

[tacit wharf]

classic

[hard axle]

yeah, who does it hurt if u just delete ironman mode, just play like an iron as a main

[tacit wharf]

one from earlier in #sailing-chat

[finite tapir]

words cannot explain how fucking annoying this ""argument"" is

[merry verge]

exactly, this is so truth right on bullseye, sir. Jagex needs to keep this in mind when they get feedback

[hard axle]

I suggested an incinerator, but only if you sacrificed gp or coal for the convenience

I don't like free shit because it's rarely ever a good tradeoff

[tacit wharf]

see at least that has a loss

[finite tapir]

imo if there's going to be a tradeoff, it should be notable

like, for example, i've seen an argument for an incinerator-like item for barb fishing

on the basis that it's a "downside" if you lose the items

when actually no, that's just a non-loss

if anything that item is pretty much objectively a gain in every sense, because people who were afk barb fishing were not intending on keeping any products

[merry verge]

oh yeah that's probably the worst suggestion for salvaging yet.. The dropping part is the only part of salvaging that actually feels like I'm skilling or actively playing the game...

[hard axle]

we should host an annual purge and the reason for it is "who does it hurt"

[finite tapir]

something to look out for (and this has been mentioned already really) is that generally speaking people tend to have extra reasons for pushing for something

i mean we all know of the amusing comment about "this update only exists bc a jmod wanted to get xyz thing on their iron easier"

for example saebae made this tweet recently

https://fxtwitter.com/SaederRS/status/2000369714456084576

Sae Bae (@SaederRS)

How would we all feel if fish offcuts were a stackable food that healed 1hp each? It would 100% crash the purple sweet market, but sweets still have the run energy advantage.

**💬 23 ❤️ 60 👁️ 24.4K **

FxTwitter · Dec 15, 2025, 12:57 AM

this is just because he didn't get gnome cube, and wants gnome cube

he doesn't actually care about having an item that heals you 1hp

[merry verge]

well yeah maybe there could be room for something here, it could be balanced with 1 click 28 items burnt at a price, but WAY SLOWER THAN DROPPING. But at that point most people wouldn't even use it anyway, or maybe.. Some people might cut they're infernal eels automatically and clean herbs automatically sometimes I guses

[finite tapir]

that's just an excuse for having the item exist in that state

because it would be gnome cube

unlike some other people though, sae bae isn't being very subtle with this

[hard axle]

sae bae podcasts are him just pitching ideas and hoping known figures agree with him

If not, keep pitching

let the guests speak, christ

[finite tapir]

maybe if it was slow enough but semi-automatic i imagine people would still do it

[hard axle]

the other podcast did the same

ricegum's group

[finite tapir]

ages ago i jokingly said they should make rooftops almost completely afk - just one click for a full lap, but they reduce the xp rate to like 6k xp/hr

and i actually unironically got some replies saying "yeah i'd do that"

so like

you never know

[hard axle]

I suggested the same

before i found out about poh agility

u walk the course, so its about 4x slower

so 1/4 the xp

that would be like 19k/hr for ardy and in hindsight, that's pretty damn strong

[finite tapir]

quite

[hasty shard]

no need to yell too many caps

real though people complaining about dooms loot are insane

[tacit wharf]

i didnt catch that ping

[hasty shard]

.

[tacit wharf]

i see

anyone tell that certain someone that jagex adding d arrow's to frost dragons

[hasty shard]

😭

[chrome lantern]

Surely we're not pretending it's a significant amount

[tacit wharf]

i mean, 1k here, 1k there, a pinch way over there, adds up

[hasty shard]

gnome cube is the teak knife reskin right

[hard axle]

still very decen

1:4 ratio

[finite tapir]

3t celastrus bark basically

[hard axle]

like, the only reason why purple sweets is even remotely balanced is because its so rare

[hasty shard]

i thought gnome cube needed a wind-up key to use on it

and wasnt one click

[hard axle]

if u made a common food infinite hp, that alone still massively increases trip length

just think gwd lmao

1 minute in between kills

99 hp every kill without blood barrage

[hasty shard]

watch there be like some birthday event that gives a bone sack that you can search for unlimited bones

the implication being

[hard axle]

the run energy aspect of sweets is legit only used in cox speeds

and some gwd methods

[hasty shard]

sailing balance is weird for this

you can take and cook like 250 marlin anywhere and have like 5k in boat heals

[hasty shard]

if camphor crates could store salvage it'd be a lot less of a pain to make trips back

[small anvil]

that would be infinite afk tho lol

[hasty shard]

they COULD have designed it to not be infinite afk double spots

instead of doubling down on that

[hard axle]

it was lowkey ocol how many people were sailing around day 1-7

[hasty shard]

idk why they didnt just go with crates over the salvage station

[hard axle]

now everyone is just salvaging

hope they buff bounty tasks ngl

xp wise they should be greater than port tasks

[hasty shard]

bounties just arent worth the time rn arent they?

[hard axle]

nope

[hasty shard]

like you're better off just grinding krakens and doing glide after

[hard axle]

u lose too much time getting to the place, dps sucks, u have to turn in tasks

[hasty shard]

that going back and taking tasks

I feel like they need an npc contact for bounties lol

[hard axle]

before they nerfed it, getting to the place was like 5s instead of 30s

dps was better because dwarf cannon

and turning in wasn't bad

[small anvil]

its not even worth if you're farming for money

[hasty shard]

true because you can pot doom instead of sailing

[round lintel]

21-39-41

riiiight

zulrah been doing this all night

[hasty shard]

one could say sit

[round lintel]

bish zulrah

[round lintel]

st0nks

6k in seeds = 1.14m

[hasty shard]

they are crashing now

redditors i s2g

[true talon]

Waiting for a jmod to have a tbow on his ironman and not have access to d arrows. surely anyday now.

[upper lichen]

use amethyst, its not like u are efficiently speedrunning on an iron anyway kek

[true talon]

I dont think end game items should be limited to only using them to speed run, there is a disadvantage of not having 3 max hits despite you being in the end game. not using d arrows is the same as just not wearing an anguish.

[obsidian venture]

Idm there being more of a resource for them but limiting is the name of the iron game

[true talon]

limiting is not the name of the iron game, getting it yourself is the name of ironman. not putting yourself at a disadvantage because the game doesnt offer a self sustain method.

you seem to confuse the two

[obsidian venture]

Getting it yourself is the limiting factor buddy

[upper lichen]

it does offer a self sustain method as there is content that drops them

now im not saying they shouldnt add more ways to get them, but i swear i've seen u bring it up like 20 times in the past year

[obsidian venture]

Hence you have to grind to be able to use them. You also have to pick and choose where you want those max hits to matter

[true talon]

"drops" is not the same as production of consumables. it being tied to RNG drops is not something you want on a consumable.

[obsidian venture]

I think that’s a pretty fair compromise

Game is rng mate

[true talon]

gear is RNG, not consumables

things that leave the game and need to be upkept are not locked behind RNG

[obsidian venture]

What? As an iron are you not grinding out supplies

That’s also limiting

You need to do herbs runs to make pots

Fish anglers

Etc

Not rng but you’re grinding it

Guess rng would be how much you’re getting per patch

[true talon]

none of that is rng, they fall under prep phases. if i set out to fish 1000 anglers, then i will end with 1000 anglers.

[obsidian venture]

But in terms of dps, you should choose the content you want those max hits to matter

[upper lichen]

i dont mean to make this personal in any way but i think there are certain things u should accept

[obsidian venture]

Don’t need to use bis on everything and that’s where we disagree

[true talon]

i do accept it, but that doesnt mean i cant see it as a problem.

[obsidian venture]

Sure

[true talon]

why would you never call out a problem, just because you accept the current state?

[upper lichen]

yeah thats fair but its like, at this point it seems a bit too much lol

[true talon]

complaining about it is how we got scar ess and other improvements to the game

you see problems you bring it to the people who can enforce change

[obsidian venture]

I also dislike scar ess being a thing. Blighted supplies

[true talon]

This is only an issue at the very end game, so it doesnt affect most people. many people in affect end up de-ironing as end game is terrible spot to be on irons. it used to only be an issue for irons with tbow, but now its an issue due to them adding 2 more d arrow using weapons. amyethst was spawned as a method to fix the old issue which was d darts back when blowpipe was overpowered.

[upper lichen]

if i were an iron, i'd just save my dragon arrows for "meaningful" content or chill with amethyst - and just to clarify, im not saying u are wrong, its just the frequency of the dragon arrow complaints if that makes sense

wouldnt affect me in the slightest if they made them more sustainable for irons so im not exactly against it either

[true talon]

its just a bad system to have end game items unable to be obtainable to a point that you can just use them for end game content. most irons save their d arrows for one time things like CA's or difficult content (i dont think this is a bad thing) but the when you need to think about if its worth using it due to supply being impossible to up keep, there is a big issue. it goes back to people not using scythe due to blood rune issues. the biggest problem is that the arrow tips themself are not produceable outside of some niche content such as farming colo/duke.

which you could spend 10 hours at and get no drops

If i go mine for 10 hours i know ill have 15k amythst arrows, if i go do colo for 10 hours i dont know if ill even see a d arrow tip and thats where the problem is.

[hard axle]

farm frost dragons

1 every 1000 hp

[true talon]

yea they drop like 7 at 1/60 or some shit

[hard axle]

10 every 30

https://tenor.com/view/lying-why-the-fuck-you-lying-lie-liar-gif-4883579

[true talon]

Missed chance to have frost dragon bones be processable into d ammo of your choice, dart/arrow/javelin

[obsidian venture]

I’d be against that purely due to it affecting the economy especially as bis ammo

[true talon]

ahh you right its 1/32

[hard axle]

and averages 10

[thick beacon]

I do agree but at the same time it just hurts range cmb style artifically way more. your expected to always use a full power scy/shadow. largely thats because shops for runes existed and then scar stream lining process.

[true talon]

no main who can afford a tbow has looked at price of d ammo and been like damn this is to much lol.

[obsidian venture]

Iron issue but affects mains economy and for that I’m a no

It’s not too much, but it still has decent value

[true talon]

they are 1.9k right now with a save of 80%

t bow is the cheapest mega rare and its not even close

[thick beacon]

i think thats the idea of why ppl are against it. tbow is a free mrare to use esp on iron so the amount of ammo is the only balance

[true talon]

its locked behind 87 sailing + many other stats that require you to make a really good boat and signifcant cost tied to that. i feel it would be balanced.

[thick beacon]

but i feel like they can make dammo require alot of gp to get if u want more or something

[hard axle]

it shouldn't be gp

for resources

just play a main at that point

[true talon]

I dont want it to be GP, because there is no arrow shop

technically there is with rune arrows

but they are insanely expensive lol

[thick beacon]

using ur own logic rune arrows are like 50 gp a shot

actually less

[hard axle]

runes, arrows, and next gonna be potions

oh wait, but it'll be "balanced" because it "requires a lot of gp"

[true talon]

Rune arrows used to be very difficult to get, but they slapped them on every table.

[hard axle]

as dumb as uims wanting bank slots

[thick beacon]

the thing is only thing on iron that isint solved is dammo and blood shards

everything else is solved

there is no issue

[true talon]

with sailing they added some new ones. being d c balls lol

or any cball basicaly

[hard axle]

and that's just laughable how easy they made it

[thick beacon]

i dont rrly count ship cmb much atm but ye

[true talon]

I havnt cared about blood shards since they added rancour

Only time i use it is with SRA on vardorvis

[thick beacon]

main has gotten alot easier to not just iron. but dammo is such a big thing though I feel and other ppl that made posts show atleast other irons want dammo to be improved

theres disagreements on the extent or how but pretty much most iron want to see dammo improved

[thick beacon]

not a big deal really anymore ye

[hard axle]

restricted game mode filled with players trying to not rely on gpscape

proceeds to rely on gpscape for half of the resource gathering

[thick beacon]

shops have been busted since release

idt many main accounts even know hm irons already buy

or can buy

[hard axle]

yes and maybe like 1% of you guys have called for it to be nerfed

many were cheering for scar instead

like, it's just comes off very contradictory

[thick beacon]

ye times have kinda changed mentally i mean there was a point where u stand alone

[true talon]

i would argue that irons arent trying to rely on gpscape, they more so want to have methods to produce items on their own. esp consumable ones you need to stock like pots/food/runes. however GP is still a resource that irons have to make on their own and unlike mains who can sell a 1.5b item, irons need to produce the GP raw.

[thick beacon]

now irons get to do basically any group pvm content that comes out

[hard axle]

and yet, u have dumbasses who want to use DC funds for sar

[true talon]

those people are idiots

[hard axle]

like, it's funny cuz the best and fastest way for gp on an iron

is to just throw alchables in shops

[true talon]

DC should only cover death fees and entrance fees

[hard axle]

that's basically just ge with more annoying steps

[thick beacon]

all things considereds having played a main and iron

main is still like leauges progression compared to iron even with hm easier iron has gotten

[true talon]

thats because alching them takes way to long. but jagex cant improve that or else it breaks mainscape an alching for profit.

[hard axle]

half of the things that would make irons happy would just be leagues-tier mechanics

like autoalching or alching 30 at a time

as time goes by, irons really should just be on their own private server

[true talon]

i mean that wouldnt make me happy, it just keep me from having to hop worlds and sell to the shops.

id much rather the shops just always charge a flat rate regardless of stock, so i dont have to hop 500 times

theres no profit to be made in selling items to the shop

its a 10-20% loss most the time

[hard axle]

its the convenience

alch for 7 hours or tp-hop-sell for an hour

[thick beacon]

I do agree we ask for a lot I think people want to see this stuff made easier thats mindset these days. some of the suggestions are way to strong but idk its 2025

[hard axle]

like, the more i play iron, the more of a joke I see

saw a post yday basically showing how 50% of the playtime is just prepping

for pnm

and pvm in general

[thick beacon]

thats kinda cap imo i feel the deeper u go the less u have to prep anything

maybe occasional scar trip but lategame u basically get all ur supplies passively

early/mid game its rough though

[hard axle]

I wanna say that throne is another disgusting source

gp for herbs/resources

[true talon]

Yea prep isnt something you have to think about, outside of some stuff. eariler last year i was down bad for super combats, because kwarum was not dropped off anything.

but kingdom up keeps my herb use most the time

[hard axle]

gp for resources btw

[true talon]

Also they added huey which dropped 20+ kwarum seeds

so that helped

[thick beacon]

lot of ppl say king actually kinda sucks cuz of the gp u need for it for the resource output but ye its pretty strong imo

esp passive birdnests as well gotten like over 1.4k nests

[hard axle]

"sucks"

yeah those guys need to be thrown out a window

[true talon]

ya kingdom has been around since forever. its a pretty expensive option and mostly is used to stock hardwood logs for con.

[hard axle]

how much you wanna bet some of those guys don't know you don't need to maintain it every day

[true talon]

i keep it up going to get passive herbs

[hard axle]

and only before u pop the coffer

[thick beacon]

gp the arguement but gp also becomes freer the more u play

so i just sent kingdom

[hard axle]

[true talon]

Its because they slap alchables on literally everything

[hard axle]

im glad salvaging doesn't let you keep most of the stuff

without a major xp decrease

[true talon]

Shame i lost 6m in red topaz, because gem bag dont work 🙁

[hard axle]

will say

after doing so many herb runs

can we raise the limit on herb sack to 90

and also let it accept noted herbs

[true talon]

It would have been nice to train sailing doing all the different activities, but sitting here for on rate 8m sailing exp for 2 dragon cannons XD

[signal hawk]

Or just stop mobs from dropping noted herbs completely (unless its a boss/raid/clue that drops numbers higher than the sacks capacity but those are few and far between). Pretty sure this is something jagex even started correcting starting with fossil island wyverns.

[sacred skiff]

Yeah I did 87-99 without a single cannon barrel, so that’s really cool

Late sailing is really just a series of middle fingers to irons, which tbf Husky did outright say would be the case.

[chrome lantern]

This isn't true btw, you don't have to do it every day but the favor % calculates every day for how much it contributes toward your resources

[icy relic]

yeh gotta maintain it

[true talon]

ya i go every week or so

to restock the %

but you can shift to whatever you need at point of claim

so it dont matter what you leave it on

[tender peak]

I chop 1 teak tree as part of my nightly chores

is it necessary to keep favor at 100%? No, absolutely not. But it only takes like 15 seconds, and I'm already doing other dailies then so I may as well

[true talon]

nah you dont need it at 100%

if you keep it 100% you get the max resources per day

its not required, but it does impact the end results

most people check it every week or every 2 weeks

you lose 1% everyday so if you dont go restock it to 100% then you will get 99% the next day in resources

[chrome lantern]

I just go every week or two

[true talon]

ya sometimes i ignore it for a month, depends on how much i care to login.

[hard axle]

https://tenor.com/view/lizard-lizard-lizard-button-lizard-tom-the-lizard-pixar-gif-17194109322617058326

Please

They made an item specifically to carry noted herbs and then made everything noted

Herb sack has maybe 3 use cases

Farm runs if you do 3-4 type of herbs

Herbi

Salvaging if it automatically goes in? Need to test this

[ember token]

they already changed most mobs that drop noted herbs

[hard axle]

Bosses still largely drop notes

[signal hawk]

If sailors get turtle can I get iguana?

[vapid stirrup]

I need to talk to a mod anyone know how I can get the attention of one? I got a ingame bug

[signal hawk]

Hey if we had iguana pets they could eat the bug

[signal hawk]

probably better off submitting an ingame bug report than posting in game updates lol

If it's sailing related try sailing-bugs, if you're on mobile try the mobile-bugs channel

[stone token]

I really wish they would update the crystal extractor so it doesn’t need to be next to the helm. Whether they do it with UI, like the wind catcher thing or just make it interactive from the helm no matter where it is on the boat, I don’t care…

[vapid stirrup]

Yeah already posted but i damn dont want to play the game with this bug i got

[stone token]

I thought that would come with this last update because of the name of it

[vapid stirrup]

so im just gonna be offline ingame while it gets fixed lol

the ingame ticket is probably going to take months to get solved so gg 1month of membership lol

[chrome lantern]

?

[tender peak]

just... do other things?

[vapid stirrup]

dont really wanna lol

i wanted to get all logs for sailing before i did other stuff again

[chrome lantern]

It's easier for him to complain and not explain what the bug is rather than play the game

[vapid stirrup]

cant tp boat

[chrome lantern]

Like Summon boat or teleport to boat

[vapid stirrup]

and i aint paying 60k to get to the closest shipright i got

summon boat

[chrome lantern]

Do you have a teleport focus on your boat

[vapid stirrup]

yeah yeah i know how to play the game lol

[tender peak]

[vapid stirrup]

oh i cant post images here lol

basically the summon boat menu is open

if u expand the view of the ship to see facilities and other info u see the teleport focus

but when i press summon it says i do not have one

[chrome lantern]

Well I just summoned mine to test so idk what to tell you

[vapid stirrup]

how have i been teleporting my ship for the last week then if i did not have one?

[stone token]

If you have nothing in your cargo hold, it’s cheaper just to do a recovery instead of a teleport

[vapid stirrup]

yeah no one from my clan has this issue also

im the only one with it lol

[chrome lantern]

Regardless it seems like you're crashing out way too hard over a 60k payment

Did you try relogging

[vapid stirrup]

reloging, clearing cache, playing on official instead of runelite, playing on mobile

[small anvil]

does not auto go into sack, still worth bringing if you are ok banking ever liek 4 hours

[vapid stirrup]

60k payment just for 1 tp btw

[chrome lantern]

I mean what are you doing that you need to frequently teleport a sloop

[vapid stirrup]

tasks

[small anvil]

did the boat get lost at sea

[tender peak]

you should be sailing back and forth for tasks

[vapid stirrup]

nah it wasnt lost yet

depends on what tasks are available

[vapid stirrup]

just tried unloading all cargo still 60k

well at least i can play dragonwilds now lol

[ember token]

they fixed a bug this week where you could summon your boat without actually having a teleport focus built

[vapid stirrup]

Yeah i saw that so im guessing some people were hit by a reverse bug of that thing lol

some people i mean me idk who else might encounter this

but funny part is yesterday after the updates i did not have this issue unless yesterday i did not need to teleport

[ember token]

or you just didnt have a teleport focus built and now you cant teleport

[vapid stirrup]

i mean i literally see it on my boat

and i paid like 1.2m for that thing or whats the cost

[hard axle]

Yeah I’m gonna capsize penguin island

disgusting

[true talon]

you just sort the salvage then 1 click the sack at the end to get all the herbs

[round lintel]

Nice

[finite tapir]

the game does indeed offer a self sustain method

[finite tapir]

i asked this about 1.5 years ago

it's fine as-is

[finite tapir]

id say this is a problem with scy/shadow, not a problem with tbow

[meager flame]

i honestly just don't think ammo upkeep is interesting or worthwhile the way they've tried to do it

[true talon]

yea so going to farm green logged content to sustain your arrows over doing actual skilling or using your fletching skill to produce them. doesnt appear to be a problem to you?

we have an entire skill that does nothing for producing ammo

[meager flame]

like

[finite tapir]

?

you make dragon arrows with dragon arrowtips

[true talon]

i dont think a consumable should come from a RNG drop thats my only take

[meager flame]

"yeah so just use dragon ammo for special reasons because its not actually worthwhile to ever intentionally farm it" is pretty shit honestly

[finite tapir]

? that's not what the screenshot says

[true talon]

if i spend 10 hours doing something my end result needs to be what i started as the goal in mind.
not do 10 hours of colo an see 0 tips or 10 hours of duke an see 1 drop.

[meager flame]

i'd rather just have a good way to go obtain the ammo if i actually want to do that

rather than just accepting its awful and not doing so

[true talon]

Bingo

[finite tapir]

it is more than fine in it's current state

[true talon]

everyone not saying anything is just accepting its terrible

well i bet if there was a ironman poll ran it would vote the other way

[meager flame]

i mean it just makes sense to offer a balanced way to actually go for it if you want to do that

you're still putting in time/effort

[finite tapir]

this doesn't actually mean much lol

[meager flame]

right now you basically just use the ammo that happens to drop but not too often because you don't get enough to sustain

[true talon]

yea this just go do duke and colo to produce the arrows you are going to be using for other content like doom is beyond stupid....

[meager flame]

and theres no reasonable way to go farm it on purpose

it boils down to it just being a waste of your time

[true talon]

irons will just suck it up and go mine amyethst for 10 hours

[finite tapir]

if i went to every player and went "hey would you like an easier way to afk agility" a majority of players would still say yes

that doesn't mean that's a good idea

that just means the majority of players want to melvorscape osrs

[true talon]

im not asking for a easier time to obtain something, im asking for a way to do it thats not determined by RNG

[finite tapir]

grand exchange

[true talon]

if you use grand exchange as your answer then i discredit you as someone who has any idea of what they are talking about.

[finite tapir]

i don't even mean that facetiously, i'm being serious

[minor whale]

Another day another Tassili begging for dragon ammo to be even easier to get for irons (he says it's to make it consistent but not faster but all his suggestions are on par with bis methods of getting Darrows)

[finite tapir]

if you're playing an iron you accept that some things will likely be unfun for you

if you have an infernal max on an iron for example, you've probably experienced that in some way

one sec

[minor whale]

You're playing a game mode around resource management and farming for things past when you'd want to in order to use better things

[meager flame]

nobody can really even explain what the point of this is though

[true talon]

no you dont. you advocate for change to be on a even playing field with mains despite you putting in the extra effort to go an make the items yourself.

[minor whale]

Just accept that you have to sometimes do content you don't want to do to get the items you want to use

[finite tapir]

to be clear - j*brim is a pile of shit and i hate 99.999% of what he stands for

despite this however

this is a good point he makes

[meager flame]

like

they can make things cost me without being annoying

they have not accomplished that with d arrows

[minor whale]

The time sink is the cost

[finite tapir]

cost you in what

if d arrows became gp based that would be beyond stupid

[true talon]

this is false. you do not accept that you are disadvantaged by the game, because they are not offering anyway to produce the materials you need outside of going an hitting duke for a RNG drp.

[minor whale]

Go do content you don't want to do (Colo) to get more dragon arrows

[meager flame]

time/effort/value however you want to see it

both other megarares do not have this problem

[minor whale]

The gamemode is about hitting rng drops for the best tier of gear wws

[true talon]

gear is a different story than consumable, but you seem to not understand the difference.

[minor whale]

You're not being "disadvantaged" by having a dozen ways of getting dragon arrows but none of them are consistent in a single hour test

[meager flame]

for example

[finite tapir]

you profit approximately 200 dragon arrows per hour of colosseum

[finite tapir]

yes, because they were poorly designed

[minor whale]

No Lily you don't get it, sometimes you'd get none in that hour and that means it's bad!

[finite tapir]

megas should be extremely costly to use

[finite tapir]

[true talon]

you dont, i did an entire weekend of colo and saw 1 tip drop.

[meager flame]

getting soul runes and blood runes costs you in either time or gp but at the end of the day you can go consistently gather them

and prep for whatever you want to do

[finite tapir]

you do, objectively speaking, that's the average

[meager flame]

dragon arrows you cannot do that in a meaningful way

you could say yeah just go do colo and its hilarious because like

[true talon]

Well i dont fight RNG battles for consumables, i suck it up and go mine amyethst.

[meager flame]

yeah you could go waste your time but the reality is you would never do that

you'd just use shitty arrows

[finite tapir]

actually you know what though, i wouldn't mind if they added some hard content to the game in exchange for like near-guaranteed d arrows

[true talon]

but when you need to make that decision, then the game is suffering from a design flaw.

[finite tapir]

it'd have to be actually difficult though

with actual requirements

[tacit wharf]

whole lotta complaining for something you could just use ammy arrows for instead

[finite tapir]

cough

[warm storm]

perhaps some kind of wave-based content with invocations to keep it fresh

[finite tapir]

cough

cough cough

[meager flame]

the problem is that the current methods for getting dragon arrows are not worth doing full stop

[minor whale]

A completion of Colo is 1/3 for 200 on average
You're saying you did a whole weekend of Colo and got 1 single drop? Did your whole weekend consist of doing 1 hour of Colo?

[meager flame]

if getting arrows was your goal

[true talon]

if i could trade quivers for d arrows instead of splinters, id 100% do that lol

[meager flame]

you would simply use ammy arrows

[true talon]

colo is my favorite content

[meager flame]

that's the entire problem

[true talon]

but i dont do it, because its not rewarding for my time as an ironman who has green logged it.

[meager flame]

dragon arrows are not worth getting because the methods are too bad/slow

it doesn't matter that you could

its that you never should

[warm storm]

i don't mind things being rare and hard to sustain on an iron tbh

[minor whale]

Yes there's items that aren't efficient for irons to get, if Tassili is asking for something that's not easier but solely more consistent, those methods would also be not efficient to grind out for Darrows either?

[meager flame]

the solution is always just go get ammy arrows and do the content you wanted the d arrows for

its never go get d arrows

[minor whale]

And that's fine

[warm storm]

if they were going to add a new source for dragon ammo i'd like it to be melting down dragon items, despite it not making sense lore wise

[true talon]

lets say i could trade dupe quivers for 500 d arrow tips or darts. i would go farm colo, because its not an RNG source.

[minor whale]

They're a nice thing to use when you have them

[true talon]

500 tips is cheaper than what the sunfire splinters is worth

[meager flame]

yeah i just dont think theres anything good or interesting about that

[minor whale]

Hahaha just a simple 1500 d arrows per hour method for irons totally not asking for it to be easier guys

[meager flame]

"lol out of arrows oh well"

[true talon]

? 1500 d arrows per hour method that involves some of the hardest content in the game? whats the problem.

[meager flame]

its just an obvious place where they could put some content

it would be like if we couldn't craft wrath runes so we just said fuck it and left when we ran out

[true talon]

colo is dead due to the sunfire splinter price

[warm storm]

choosing where to use them and where not to is an interesting decision

[minor whale]

Only making it 7x more easy to get than current methods totally not asking for it to be a mega buff guys

[meager flame]

idk if its really interesting because like

they're not really good enough to care that much

you might as well just waste them all and continue with ammy

probably save yourself the most time that way

[warm storm]

?

[minor whale]

What

[warm storm]

they are like 2 max hits minimum

[meager flame]

yeah so just use them get the time save from the arrows you had

[true talon]

they are 3 actually

[ember token]

add sunfire arrows that use sunfire splinters to make and have the same effective dps as dragon arrows, but spread over time via burn damage

[minor whale]

You use them at places you think it's worth it when you get them from content you do and otherwise you use ammy

[meager flame]

and continue with your other arrows

[true talon]

i made that suggestion, to allow sunfire splinters to be chiseled into break away d arrows.

because sunfire splinters price is in the gutter due to having no uses

[minor whale]

Going for cox speedruns? Whip out the Darrows

Killing 5000 Zulrah? Maybe stick to amethyst.

[meager flame]

i think this sounds a lot more interesting than it is since its not like you're actually going to fail because you had the wrong arrows

or at least you shouldn't

[finite tapir]

maybe like 125-150 per quiver and that's fair - 100 profit, using 25-50 per run

[warm storm]

you use them when speed matters or when mvp chance matters

[meager flame]

as long as you're benefitting from using the arrows you should probably just be using them

[warm storm]

that's basically it

[finite tapir]

that'd be about 300 d arrows/hr guaranteed

[meager flame]

and then use whatever is available when you're out

[minor whale]

So if the Darrows are not a pass/fail metric then why the fuck are you guys so pissy about them being hard to get

[true talon]

id settle for 250

[finite tapir]

no

[minor whale]

They're evidently to you a minor benefit so just use the few you get when you really need them

[true talon]

250 is a massive loss of money so it wouldnt impact main scape

[minor whale]

250 is still 4x the current rate lmao

[meager flame]

oh its just the basic "i want to progress and gather the best things to use them" type of mentality

[minor whale]

Or 3.6xish

[meager flame]

if they offered a reasonable way of obtaining them i'd stop making ammy arrows and use my time on d arrows

[finite tapir]

quiver is not really like super challenging content we don't need to be giving premium ammunition en masse to it

[meager flame]

but they dont

[true talon]

250 at 3 sol kills an hour (not many people can do this) would be 750 an hour which is half the rate of amyethst.

it would be done by end game only players and irons who need d arrows

[finite tapir]

quite a lot of people can do 3 kc/hr

[warm storm]

i think 250 for a quiver would be fine

[minor whale]

A huge amount of mains don't use dragon darts in their blowpipe because it's not gp efficient in a lot of places to do so
Irons need that same cost:benefit analysis and not just "I want use best thing always!"

[warm storm]

i would actually do colo if that were the case

[finite tapir]

maybe if we add an option to force you to start with doom 2 or something i could maybe see 250

[true talon]

? colo is some of the most difficult content in this game lol.

[finite tapir]

yeah not 20 minute kcs tho

[meager flame]

we do have that

[tacit wharf]

sure

[meager flame]

that's why we're talking about this

[finite tapir]

20 minute kc is like low grandmaster for my clue scrolls

[true talon]

20 minute kc is 4 min below GM time.....

[finite tapir]

so what

[meager flame]

the accounting tells you to just not care about d arrows

[finite tapir]

gm time means nothing

[meager flame]

thats why people bring it up

[finite tapir]

do you think gm inferno time means something as well or what

[minor whale]

And Tass wants to get rid of it

[warm storm]

the average gamer isn't clearing colo or inferno at all

[finite tapir]

the average gamer has <1250 ttl and plays osrs like melvor idle

[minor whale]

I'm saying getting rid of that "do I use my rare consumable now or save it for something I really need it for" is stupid and just begging for the game to be easier in a game mode you chose

[meager flame]

that's kind of the problem though its already stupid

[minor whale]

And it's why Jagex has stayed pretty consistent on not buffing the dragon tips per hour rate by a huge amount

[meager flame]

you have enough d arrows for the special omg i need them moment

way more than enough actually

[minor whale]

Ok lmao then what's the issue

[meager flame]

its that people want a method to just use them all the time for a fair time investment

[true talon]

you have plenty of arrows if you never use them. i think doom was first time i used any and then they started dispearing in the thousands and i went back to amy.

[meager flame]

the decision of omg let me save everything for that one special moment is already not interesting because if you're doing that

you can't possibly not have enough of them

[tacit wharf]

i hear mains can use them all the time, by just buying them on the GE

[finite tapir]

people want a method to just use them all the time for a fair time investment
wait until you hear about colo profiting 200 arrows/hr

[meager flame]

you just left clicked a different icon in your bank

[finite tapir]

if you do a weekend of colo that's like

2.5k arrows

boom

[true talon]

if you get the drop, you need to stop looking at it from a law of averages

[meager flame]

what would be interesting though

[true talon]

you can also do an entire month an never see a tips drop or even die

[meager flame]

is if you had content to go do to gather the resource you want to use that was like

a compelling decision

that's what jagex doesn't offer

[true talon]

Thats why i wanted a way to 100% give the drop even if its like trading in infernal cape or quiver

quiver is already traded for 4k splinters or pet

[meager flame]

all of their options are just bad so the correct choice is to just ignore it

[minor whale]

So in one single argument we've got these points down from Tass and Turkey: Dragon arrows are plentiful enough for the content where you really need them to be at, they're not that impactful overall to where they're make or break most content, and that the "do I use them here" moment doesn't really exist

[finite tapir]

@minor whale i regret to inform you that the drop rate of soft clay from nechryaels is actually not 1/29... i did an entire weekend of nechs and got 0 so that means the rate isnt 1/29

[minor whale]

I actually went dry on Ultor so it's in reality 1/2238

[true talon]

yep if the options to obtain something is bad, then you ignore it an use the easier to obtain item. because the time save in having the extra power is not on par with the time to obtain.

its just basic time investment

[meager flame]

essentially yes what i want is something that is time consuming but also beneficial enough that i can stop what im doing and go do that to get arrows if i choose to spend time that way

and not just be like

the biggest idiot ever

for spending time on it

[finite tapir]

good thing colo is 200 arrows/hr which is quite a few that's 1k shots

chop chop

[minor whale]

Take an hour or two and go do Colo and you have a majority chance of getting 200 of them

[finite tapir]

let's go

[warm storm]

even right now the most efficient option is using rune arrows from pvm and never touch amethyst

[meager flame]

yeah but like i said that's stupid if you go to colo just for arrows

[minor whale]

Jagex hasn't even hinted at making a consistent dragon arrow farm for good reason

[meager flame]

you're wasting your own life

[true talon]

if you think having an entire anguish worth of range str missing from your tbow/scorching bow an venator bow is not significant then i dunno what to tell you.

[meager flame]

its just not good enough

[finite tapir]

why is that a waste

[true talon]

considering people bring 8 way switch to just have 1 extra max hit.

[finite tapir]

you want d arrows, you farm d arrows, you get d arrows gg

[meager flame]

its too slow i can just make bad arrows and complete the content i wanted to go do with way more efficiency

than i could by stopping at colo first

[finite tapir]

ok do it then

[minor whale]

Lmao

[small anvil]

tass is the only one actually invested in this

[meager flame]

yeah but now you're just going circular

[small anvil]

and they have uh... suspect opinions otherwise

[meager flame]

and missed the entire point

[finite tapir]

nope i get the point you're making, it's just stupid

[true talon]

im only one vocal about it, due to it being an actual issue, but to many people are happy with eating shit an being happy.

[meager flame]

idk asking for worthwhile content to do to go gather ammo seems like a reasonable want

[finite tapir]

however i am willing to make a trade though

[minor whale]

Guys I don't want to use the worse more time efficient gear I want to use the best gear in the game with no weighing if it's efficient just add a dragon arrow infinite stock shop to the game pls Jagex

[small anvil]

irons wanting things to be easier is kinda meh whatever

[true talon]

its not even easier

[finite tapir]

we can make something more consistent for d arrows

in return, i want mixology removed from the game

[meager flame]

i dont even think its really easier

[true talon]

asking for a source that is not tied to RNG is not making it easier

[meager flame]

its very easy already to just ignore the arrows

[finite tapir]

it is though

[minor whale]

Yes it is
When you ask for it to be 7x more common

[finite tapir]

objectively speaking it removes variance

and also your idea wants it to be way more common yeah