game-update

[restive siren]

also they should repoll just crab vs turtle that poll was bs

[hard axle]

“Powercreep is inevitable” lacks context and is often just used to justify increases because you can’t defend it.

By no standards does Barrows tier content with little to no requirements pump out 2nd BIS or 3rd BIS options.

There’s no reason why BM needed as much str bonus as it gave to the point that it negated 95% of reasons to do Torso and GWD until endgame.

I’d argue PM is as meta defining as Bowfa was for irons and it could’ve been better designed as group content, rather than content you do together but 0 impact.

[hard axle]

Just add gemstone crab pet

so we get 69/69 pets faster

Shit’s afk so no one will care

[obsidian venture]

Also really dislike that the design difference between midgame content (PM) and endgame content (Colosseum) was night and day

[hard axle]

yeah lmao, the artwork/area alone was literally intern level project versus the experienced jmods doing all nighters

[obsidian venture]

Literally shows how much they don’t give a fuck about endgame pvm. No yama isn’t endgame (besides contracts) and delve isn’t endgame off the rip

[hard axle]

I enjoyed pet contracts and think they are endgame (especially solo pet contract), and god I wish it was the base boss lol…

[wide garnet]

They need to add shouting npcs to the colosseum

[hard axle]

Zcbing off cooldown is such a good feeling

[wide garnet]

Bloodhungry Varlamorians

[hard axle]

Bro, can autocorrect fuck off

It’s modded zcbing like 4 times

[wide garnet]

Turn it off angle

[restive siren]

I mean i can absolutely defend powercreep. Some amount of it is inevitable since there are only so many niche items jagex can put into the game to avoid it. And even all of those niche items will powercreep some niche situations by definition. A game running for a decade plus will get better and better gear otherwise people will stop playing the game because there is nothing to chase 🤷‍♂️ and as i said i dont agree that it was too much in the case of moons but i can respect that opinion. Irons still have reasons to go to GWD (and that content is fucking godawful too lets not beat around the bush, i dont see any reason beside nostalgia why that should have stayed meta forever)

[obsidian venture]

Powercreep is inevitable

[wide garnet]

What, you don't like getting smacked by an armored bird for an hour straight?

I thought everyone loved skreeeeee!

[obsidian venture]

But doesn’t mean you shove everything that folks with half a hand can use and with easy access 95% of the time

[restive siren]

i mean there are maybe reasons to think moons gear is too strong but it making GWD less relevant is definitely not one of them lmao

[obsidian venture]

This game’s progression is quite frankly dogshit

[obsidian venture]

It has lmao

[restive siren]

ofc it has

[minor whale]

Power creep should be locked more behind more difficult content and not shit like delve level 4 doom giving triple bis boots

[restive siren]

im saying thats a good thing because gwd is also turbo shit content

[minor whale]

Whenever endgame gets thrown a bone the next update is 20 mid-game things that are 97% as good and take 3 hours to get

[obsidian venture]

Gatekeeping is in fact a good way to approach powercreep

But Jagex doesn’t have the guts to do it

[hard axle]

Nah, conflating two points and ignoring the context is dumb.

I never said we shouldn’t increase the ceiling and have been actively saying we should increase the ceiling where appropriate, I’m saying we shouldn’t increase the floor from dog easy content more than harder content.

There’s no reason why PM justifies such a high increase for the early and midgame. Same for zombie axe and burning claws that add “gapfillers” that do 90% of their next progression.

[hard axle]

Exactlyyyyy

[restive siren]

the problem with midgame gear progression is that you cannot make content extremely difficult so whatever is the best option people will just do in low gear and stats

[obsidian venture]

That also goes to show how many updates they’ve shoved in the last year or so

And it all just affects midgame

[minor whale]

You can make midgear progress that isn't afk brain off dry protection content that's 5% worse than bis

[obsidian venture]

Rather they take a step back to address early and end or more qol/engine stuff

[hard axle]

zombie axe is lowkey busted for low level irons and bypasses 85 slayer lol

There’s a reason why low level irons with GM mains do cool in it

[wide garnet]

Just nerf pm armor? QoL the fights (etubes post was pretty good ngl), leave the rest alone? Unless better suggestions for the room downtime, too

[wide garnet]

Cool

[sacred oracle]

Actually agree. There were more votes for crab than for turtle, but because we don't have ranked choice voting, the type of crab vote was split so it basically couldn't win

More people wanted a crab than a turtle

[hard axle]

I personally don’t mind run time as a balancing metric, but if people don’t find it fun, just replace with more hp.

simple as that

[wide garnet]

Yea I see that

[minor whale]

We got Yama (not endgame at all, extremely low barrier to entry requirements and gear, drops gear that's bis in more places than Torva)
And doom (drops a new bis glove slot that's nuclear on delve 2 which is easy as shit, 2nd bis wand on delve 3, and triple bis boots on wave 4)

It's just ridiculous they're allergic to giving people who want to do harder content any rewards that aren't cosmetic (coming as someone who has no fucking care in the world for any cosmetics)

[wide garnet]

I'm a run camp msyelf

[obsidian venture]

Make it one prep room with three entrances (literally mimicking the starting area)

[wide garnet]

I like brain off in between fights

[wide garnet]

Ooooh. Yummy

[hard axle]

Ralos buff waiting room

[minor whale]

Like all Colo gear

The only time you ever see the prayer armor is bots at Vyres lmao

Echo boots are dead content

Quiver isn't what they promised

Ralos is used in 2 whole places in the game

[true talon]

Nothing needs to change about PM armor

[wide garnet]

I can agree to move drops to higher delves, forshoreeeee.

[minor whale]

They just are allergic to giving hard content good rewards

[obsidian venture]

Sure pot and horn isn’t what they promised too

[minor whale]

Yup

[hard axle]

Remember when Sunfire was potentially going to be ranged gear

[minor whale]

Horn is so unbelievably dogshit

[wide garnet]

Whoawhoawhoa... wdym?

[hard axle]

That would’ve been so good

[minor whale]

They said quiver was going to let you store 2 ammo types in it and they nerfed it to just storing 1 on release

It was polled as adding 2 ammo slots when equipped

[wide garnet]

Oh shit

[minor whale]

And they just straight up lied about it and implemented not what they polled

[obsidian venture]

Prob poor wording on their part

[minor whale]

Just like how they said burning claws would be "healthily between DDS and dclaws"

[hard axle]

It was supposed to have 3 slots so you could’ve bolts + arrow + blessing, but I’m not too pressed by it.

[wide garnet]

Maybe thry polled typo version and we got intended?

[obsidian venture]

Maybe

[hard axle]

It’s not awful and probably a nightmare if you put 2 bolts + arrow

[minor whale]

They just suck ass at actually polling and implementing what's polled instead of what they "meant"

[obsidian venture]

But the wording in what they pill vs finish product is not really accurate

[restive siren]

The floor or midgame has to be updated too because the old options werent really getting more engaging either. 15 years of GWD or barrows, wowie. Cant really argue about finding moons not fun since thats subjective but yeah you can argue its a bit too easy. The thing is how do you even add content thats not easy and not within 5% of the end game gear? If its too hard people will just continue having to do GWD and barrows and if its not on par with the gear from there guess what, people will just continue having to do GWD and barrows.

The only way to do that would be introducing high end gear that way powercreeps the current gear to create more of a gap for new midgame content to fit in. But thats obviously not very popular and very risky.

Also a funny thing imo is that they also released titans with ridiculously good rewards all well in 5% range of previous options which is also piss easy and nobody bats an eye. So i dont really buy the whole midgame power creep argument from a lot of people, it just seems they have a hatred for moons specifically and project that onto the rewards. (not saying you specifically but i feel like thats common)

[minor whale]

And when people realize it it's too late

[hard axle]

cuz crossbow won’t know which bolt to pull from

[minor whale]

Because they never do betas for rewards anymore lmao

[wide garnet]

Prob this as well

[minor whale]

It's always oopsy this item is broken on release hehe we'll never look at it again I guess :3

[obsidian venture]

Ffs can they get someone that can do math

[minor whale]

Legit

Every time they release a dps calc

It's wrong

[obsidian venture]

How is the playerbase able to figure out an item’s usefulness before release and they say something that’s completely untrue in regards to where it sits

Insert square hole meme

[minor whale]

Like how the new wand isn't mage bowfa
It's MUCH stronger than mage bowfa

[obsidian venture]

🤣🤣🤣

[minor whale]

Especially with new gauntlets

[obsidian venture]

Please jmods if you do read this, get someone with a very strong background in math

Hire vlad ffs

[minor whale]

Just asinine to already be capitulating on Shadow which already comes from the easiest raid in the most absurdly fast drop rate of any mega

[obsidian venture]

Can’t believe three bis items come from a midgame boss (delve)

[minor whale]

But that's too hard so here's a weapon that's 95% as good and comes from a boss that's equal in difficulty as quest leviathan

[obsidian venture]

You get bis from switching jad prayers mate

[minor whale]

Level 3 doom is basically juiced Scurrius

[obsidian venture]

Insane concept

[minor whale]

Protect orbs come out at nearly identical speeds

[obsidian venture]

Actual drooling content

[minor whale]

Kill tiny things

[restive siren]

uniques should just have started dropping at delve 6 or even 8 and it would have been fine

but yeah

[obsidian venture]

At the minimum

[restive siren]

wave 3 is wild

[obsidian venture]

But no crybabies osrs

Need bis for folks with no eyes or hands

(Not literally)

[sacred skiff]

Delve uniques should have been 6/7/8 smh

[hard axle]

Augury and MV is the only reward that’s even close and people didn’t want twinflame remotely close, so there’s a gap despite flame weaknesses. You can argue it’s too close or too far, but that was Jagex being Jagex again.

Deadeye is still very much lacking compared to Rigour.

If it’s harder than gwd, but just as rewarding in terms of rewards, people will figure it out.

But if you make it piss brain easy and less gear req, the rewards shouldn’t be the same.

+4 body and +2? Nah, +1 each since it also has a passive.

I brought up burning claws, but it should be 35-40% if it’s functioning in between DDS and Dclaws as framed by jmods, since the burn does occasionally tip it beyond dclaws.

[sacred skiff]

Or like 4/6/8

No way delve 4 is worth boots lmao

[hard axle]

Just make it so you roll it 2-8, but you need to complete 8 to claim

[sacred skiff]

oooh

[hard axle]

@finite tapir

[dire mango]

Diabolical

[hard axle]

frankly, brute forcing 8 is actually easy as shit

There’s a super easy learn friendly method

u just face tank rockfall

[sacred skiff]

There is now, yeah

[hard axle]

And pray lmao

[hard axle]

No no, since release

[sacred skiff]

Oh lol you can also just not pray-swap doubles

and hope the two off-prayers don't max you

[hard axle]

no no, not that

U just stand on the rock setup time, put the hally on if melee punish, and then click boss.

If not rockfall, click diagonal 5 tiles (3 ticks away) when the first rock explodes.

You take 0 damage from falling boulder, but do risk 20-40 on shrapnel

and then can focus prayer

[restive siren]

If its harder than GWD for the same reward people will just not do it. If its easier and gives worse rewards there is not really a reason to do it either. It would need to be harder and better rewards but as i said thats just so hard to do since the gap they created towards endgame gear is so tiny and would need to be made larger

[marsh oxide]

what about guaranteed loot from yama contracts

[hard axle]

you’re saying people wouldn’t do PM if it didn’t give +4 and +2 melee body?

🧢

[restive siren]

i dont really follow sorry

[minor whale]

That's not precluding people from just flooding Yama base difficulty, it's not a unique drop for specifically harder content
If completing "any Yama contract" or something rewarded an item that is solely gotten by completing a contract, then we'd be talking

[marsh oxide]

surely you must understand though that creating content for 0.01% of players is a failing model

[minor whale]

Doesn't mean we can't be pissed that every time Jagex says they're adding new endgame content it's just a lie lol

Or it's a "oh and also we're adding this for the people who aren't endgame to get the same rewards :3"

[hard axle]

I’m saying the rewards don’t need to be so powerful that you still do it and you don’t kill reason to do the precious content

[minor whale]

When you get a lot of your endgame players quitting or burning out because none of the content is long term repeatably enjoyable, that's an issue

[hard axle]

If PM gear kept its passive and still had +1/2/1, people would still do it without killing torso or early gwd grind

[sacred oracle]

I think the drops from doom could be bumped to a higher delve level, but to say doom isn't hard enough to be endgame is kind of baffling to me

[marsh oxide]

i mean there's colo/yama contracts/doom and raids coming out next year, like at some point how much do you want the game catering to you lmao

[sacred oracle]

It's a really hard boss to most people, myself included

[minor whale]

It's endgame at the later levels/delves, but nothing unique is gotten or unlocked at that point outside of pet at 6 (a cosmetic)

[marsh oxide]

call me crazy but those items tanking in price is from people running thousands of delves, not some random noob trying to get to wave 4 lol

they even made this point with the whole shadow thing and how 150 toa's are not the issue but people spamming out 400+

[hard axle]

Have you looked at the numbers?

There was a post a while ago about how high delves might actually be bugged.

[marsh oxide]

and you should be clear that you don't care about end game content, you just want end game rewards

[hard axle]

Like unironically bugged

just fyi, spamming 1-8 or 1-7 really isn’t that bad compared to 1-20+

If you spam 1-4, it’s not excessively longer

But you can’t tell that based on high scores

Mfers unironically saying shit like “Yama contracts”

[minor whale]

Colo - you get 1 item that's unique to actually finishing the content, the rest are hot garbage, which is fine because new bis cape for completing it

Yama - no unique rewards outside cosmetics for people who are wanting to push for harder content, absolute majority of drops are coming in from normal kills (not only because item dropping contracts are 10x rarer than the items themselves, and there's dry protection lol)
Doom - delves 2/3/4 are not at all endgame, the only unique reward for pushing past that is pet (another cosmetic)
Raids 4 - until we actually see what they're cooking it's pointless to bring up, they've promised "endgame hardest content" before and failed to deliver

[hard axle]

People hate Yama contracts too because if you’re an iron, you spend more time farming contracts than actually doing the boss.

[minor whale]

If it is ToB 2 I'll rejoice and say they've done a great job

[hard axle]

I’d call doom pnm tier honestly

[minor whale]

PNM

It's so sad

[hard axle]

No no, in terms of difficulty not drops

[minor whale]

No yeah I get it

It's pretty similar

[obsidian venture]

It doesn’t start off as endgame in the slightest. Nothing baffling to understand. It SCALES to endgame post wave 7 (6 if I’m being generous). A lot of folks do not push past certain delves which means they’re doing the midgame version 👍

[hard axle]

I’m in the crowd that think blorva and radiant should give very small stat boosts and it wouldn’t break the game since it adds to progression.

[restive siren]

i mean maybe im wrong but i kinda doubt it? Why add a 50 hour grind for a stepping stone you can just skip entirely?

[hard axle]

atalalalalalala kinda busted so you would still go for it

[obsidian venture]

The data showed that sub 400 has the most purples. They legitimately killed the 500+ toa senders with the update

[restive siren]

or everyone would just go back to getting bowfa instead 🤷‍♂️

[hard axle]

okay

[small anvil]

Set effect is still good for blood moon

It would still be bis melee training and best vs low def things if off task

[hard axle]

I can tell you most people would likely still camp PM even if it was tuned more fairly because it’s like CG in that it’s 0 or close to supplies

[small anvil]

If it lost 4 str

[restive siren]

crab afk gear is not a particularly great reason to send a 50 hours moons grind but sure ig?

what low def things do you even hit off task

[small anvil]

I used moon set at Titans for example

It's good for gargs off task

And a bunch of other things you might kill with whip

[obsidian venture]

Good at olm on budget

[small anvil]

Yeah anything you're def reducing

[hard axle]

You keep saying 50 hours moons grind, but then failing to realize it’s not just BM set you’re getting 🤨

All 3 sets are strong.

You get a ton of resources that are extremely beneficial for early and mid game irons.

[restive siren]

Yeah but if you nerf one you just make it less desirable overall. Like i dont 100% know how big the nerf would be to lead to that result but at some point youd just go get bowfa into bandos instead like you did before

[hard axle]

You wouldn’t - That’s what I’m trying to tell you. At no point, you would ever Bowfa rush buttnaked and go to gwd because the other gear still open up a ton of options.

Even if burning claws was closer to dds instead being 90-110% dragon claws, people would still use it.

I’m not telling you to go grind a nightmare staff before a Muspah DT2 Sceptre lol…

[restive siren]

with bclaws i absolutely agree sure because the upgrade comes from a raid. we are talking GWD or CG though in this case

[finite tapir]

for tds i think this is fine personally. i think the drop rate for synapse should have been how it is now only if you were in combat with 2 tds though, not just 1 (would be like 1/300 if all 3, 1/2k if just a single td)

[restive siren]

lol

[hard axle]

Again, if it’s much easier, it shouldn’t be 90% of the next upgrade, regardless of where it comes from.

[hard axle]

What’s lol about this? They have actual mechanics for multi-TDs

they built it in but didn’t reward higher for it

[restive siren]

i know i did the CAs

[finite tapir]

im honestly inclined to say pm is non iron content as opposed to irontent. i see more mains choose to get bm chest/tassets over torso than i see irons personally at least

[restive siren]

still think its a bad idea

[hard axle]

BM still too highly statted regardless for what it should be and where it comes from

[finite tapir]

powercreep is inevitable yes, but it shouldn't come at the behest of being introduced solely to make progression easier, just more fluid. if pm e.g. ate your supplies like cerb it'd have a reason other than efficiency as to why you wouldn't pick it over a torso

[fossil epoch]

Surprised that many people skipped, not that there was any bad choices, so might be why

https://i.imgur.com/IrD7ZF6.png

[finite tapir]

the problem with midgame gear progression is that midgame is fine as-is and people are too trigger happy on asking for new stuff. we already have crystal/bowfa and masori/blowpipe.

[finite tapir]

and also allergic to making "endgame" content not have an alternative where low/mid lvl players can still get top uniques

[hard axle]

Sailing BP and sailing dknives coming too iirc

the midgame has so many alternatives

Hscb

[finite tapir]

ilove that nightmare 4t staff is such a fucked bandaid for ele magic that they have to make a 3t powered staff instead of a 4t ele staff which is accessible to everyone

[hasty shard]

i'll say it again, we still get powercreep added to the game, it's just not at the latter end

[restive siren]

both of those are still desirable to get over atlatl and after 6 years of CG existing its fine to give a lower power alternative imo. Or, in the case of GWD just make it a lot less relevant after 13 years. Even more so for GWD since its just bad content anyways

[hasty shard]

moons gear is wild

[hard axle]

People fuming about the crab split vote

[hasty shard]

ngl crab pet is a reddit tier concept

as in like

reddit as a whole not the osrs sub

[fossil epoch]

Quite small amount who wanted the bottle crab

[finite tapir]

more than 0.01% of people can do yama, the drop rates are quite high and the gear reqs are practically non existent for a boss they claim to be endgame

[fossil epoch]

But we have too many crabs in this game, turtle makes sense, as we most likely arent getting a turtle pet otherwise

[hard axle]

Bad is subjective lol. 15k gwd and counting, and just made a new method

I love how people say shit like drop rates “should be more generous like gwd” only for folks to say “gwd bad and kill it”.

You know why this game isn’t like other MMOs? Because it actually fucking tries to not kill content.

[hasty shard]

i dont like the crab cause i feel like pets shouldnt just be too similar to normal world npcs

but that applies more to the seagull

[finite tapir]

yea i think bmcp should have been either 2 or 3 str - maybe even something like 2 str, boosted to 4 if full set to specifically encourage use of set bonus

[restive siren]

you have still plenty of reason to do GWD, pretending moons killed it is just disingenuous. But yes they are trying to make it a little less relevant after it has been the dominating piece of content for over a decade

[hard axle]

2010 MMO mentality to say “render older content less valuable or kill it because I don’t like it”

never kill content if you can incorporate it further imo

[restive siren]

i dont want them to kill it

i want them to make it less relevant

[hard axle]

Torva and Masori work extremely well for that reason

[hasty shard]

how much do you suffer if you avoid gwd

[restive siren]

like it will happen to any other piece of content in this game if it survives long enough

[hard axle]

Like nothing

Until ultra endgame

[hasty shard]

masori f's a defense upgrade
zcb/torva are already gwd centric

[restive siren]

ultra endgame...

[finite tapir]

they are still desirable yes, but the sole fact that a fuck ton of irons will use pm as an excuse to skip cg should be enough evidence against the desirability

[marsh oxide]

personally idc too much about a semantics argument over what is and isn't endgame since that's probably the most nebulous thing in all of osrs, but im not sure what % of players should be able to do a content before hlc players feel it's "endgame" and why they should even bother to invest in when so few people actually do it

[hard axle]

doesn’t care about semantics

proceeds to use semantics

[marsh oxide]

You can't simultaneously want MORE content that caters to a SMALLER group of players, hence things like doom that give a scaling option but evidently that's a problem too

[finite tapir]

you don't until you want torva pretty much, on an iron anyway

[hard axle]

Oh by all means just remove questing then since it’ll cater to the general masses then

There’s always certain standards you don’t abandon even if it prevents people from doing it

[finite tapir]

masori f is very optional, almost all its power comes from base

[hard axle]

Like, do you get upset that DT2 bosses are locked behind a ton of skilling and questing? No.

[hasty shard]

and you can dodge torva and get oathplate instead :3c

[hard axle]

Same applies for difficulty

[dire mango]

masori f is very optional, almost all its power comes from base

[finite tapir]

this isnt about declaring if awakened vard is endgame or not, it's about yama. base yama. the problem is not "hlc doesnt think its endgame", the problem is it was pitched as an endgame boss, that was its express intent

[hasty shard]

also pitched as a duo boss

its as much of a duo boss as slayer bosses are 😭

[restive siren]

a fuck ton of irons is a funny way to put it when the best evidence we have of new players entering the game has every of those wow streamers turbo farming CG 24/7 lol. I dont see many irons skipping CG currently, the people with the stomach to go atlatl into 1k CoX kc is not particularly large. And honestly even if half the irons would chose to skip CG which i dont really see any evidence of, thats fine and honestly like the game should be more of in some ways. More progression paths, you can chose the up and downsides you like

[finite tapir]

e.g. i'm equally pissed at huey being as lame as it was

[hard axle]

And you can almost entirely avoid that if you just copy Masori/Torva going forward.

I don’t care if it takes 10 previous BIS to form the latest BIS, it is objectively better than killing 9 previous BIS and copying 2010 MMOs that have no fucks about longevity.

[finite tapir]

masori f has some niches like cough afk kree

[hard axle]

Yep yep

[marsh oxide]

also see how many of them absolutely loved PM but apparently it's such a failure of a content lol

[restive siren]

well sure but a lot of people absolutely do care

[hard axle]

people complain about PM plenty, fk we saying

[restive siren]

you still have plenty of reason to do CG, GWD, PM made barrows more relevant again funnily enough

[small anvil]

Moons is good content, kinda too pushed

[lethal plinth]

is it known whether Grid Master rewards will be acquirable later? (like how you can buy old Leagues rewards still)

[hard axle]

And those guys are directly asking for the game to stop doing what has worked for 12 years

[torpid delta]

blue moon having a built in bathroom break will always be the funniest shit

[marsh oxide]

Moons is generally hailed as some of the best updates in the game ever from everyone i've ever talked to so clearly there's just 2 different worlds here LOL

[torpid delta]

arguably 2 built in bathroom breaks

[finite tapir]

wow streamers who are paid to play the game are not anywhere near comparable to the average iron who skips cg into other side content like tds, skips gwd, does toa until the end of time

[restive siren]

plenty of people complain about PM and plenty of people like it. The PM haters just always try to state their opinion as a fact which is annoying

[finite tapir]

people liking content =/= it's good content

[marsh oxide]

LOL

[hard axle]

People love to praise content that overreward.

Look at ToA, once the rewards went to piss, complaints started to occur.

There was a lot of mechanical problems that people didn’t like and it was just drowned out by the fact people were making a fk ton of money or drops.

[finite tapir]

i like that they added hp regen to deter you just going afk but you still don't need to care even in like the high end of early game gear, even if you're just camping an abyssal whip

[restive siren]

i mean why do you think they do it? Because a combined 10s of thousands of average players watch their stream telling them what to do from their own experience

[hard axle]

people “loving” content doesn’t mean it’s balanced or good.

On the contrary, it often means it’s too good.

A more neutral response like Araxxor’s release means the content is good and balanced.

[restive siren]

doom has the most insane rewards and was still insanely complained about

[small anvil]

People like being given free things

They're always asking for perma leagues

[dire mango]

For bug-reasons (no pun intended)

[small anvil]

Things people like does not always align with what's good for the game long term

[hard axle]

Yes, and if you read above, you’ll see that most of it is about the fact that pet is higher threshold than tradeable uniques AND actual bugs.

[hasty shard]

people complaining about doom loot is wild

[small anvil]

Yeah doom basic loot complaints are silly

[hard axle]

People have the right to complain about bugs and it has nothing to do with reward structure.

[finite tapir]

a handful of people like toa, i wouldn't consider that as "toa is good content or well-designed" at all

[hasty shard]

did you know if you scobo spec the floating rocks it just immediately spawns and despawns the orb

[finite tapir]

quite the opposite actually

[small anvil]

Lol does it root the orb

[hasty shard]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1142631454224941149/1424447764665991208/2025-10-06_03-55_lmao_thanks_orb.mp4?ex=68e4a49c&is=68e3531c&hm=5acd82a11d55e0c348db6772e35b8cfb51e2839fdcc818cad079b41757d93ac8&

[finite tapir]

i highly doubt the majority of players tell streamers to do what they personally experienced

[restive siren]

yeah and toa had (and still has) a million issues and bugs too but as you said was praised for a long time. Im not making a statement about the quality of either content, im just saying you are making your life to easy saying people just love being overrewarded, there are a dozen factors at play for community reception

[dire mango]

How so? The time to complete is really low for how good the rewards are. And the basic loot is so bad that the "enrage boss where you need to choose between delving deeper or keeping your loot" intent of it is ignored for most that farm the boss.

[restive siren]

it proves that CG is still meta in the community perception anyways. And your "average" ironman is influenced by that perception just the same as those guys

[hasty shard]

meant to specify basic loot

[finite tapir]

i mean yes, it is the most efficient route

that doesn't mean people aren't using pm as a form of cope to skip/avoid cg on their own irons

[hard axle]

Fair enough, it really depends on what lever is heavier. In doom’s case, I don’t think it was nearly as bad as ToA, which is why it was much faster to see actual changes.

People crying about Ambrosia nerf in ToA will forever be in my book as dumb fuckery.

[hasty shard]

and like kiiinda yeah but its mainly that people are complaining about getting like 300k-2m in loot for like 8 minutes investment when nightmare exists

[frail nebula]

moons has a lot more than just a worse alternative to bowfa

[hasty shard]

anything above nightmare is good 😭

[frail nebula]

you get bandos-tier melee gear and ahrim's-tier mage gear at the same time

[finite tapir]

yes and i think the former is stupid

[hasty shard]

the loot complaint i stand by is sunkissed bones being valued so highly

how the fuck have they not fixed that yet

[finite tapir]

plus you should still just get a torso anyway

you don't need a bcp until torva

[hard axle]

Correct and that’s why calling it a “50 hour grind” is so misleading. All three sets are dumb strong for where they come from.

[hasty shard]

you also get gear 1 point better than blessed

so you can almost skip hard clues

[restive siren]

yeah and as i said as long as either arent dominating and have different usecases for player skill, goals, account goals etc i think thats a good thing for the game

[hasty shard]

considering you skip getting bandos gear you stave off hards longer

[hard axle]

fashionscape wise, I think blue moons looks better than mystics and ahrims as well

but that’s irrelevant

[finite tapir]

yea i don't agree with the first bit

[hasty shard]

mystic SUCKS

[dire mango]

Doom was spesifically introduced as an enrage boss though. With the choice between "keep loot or go deeper" being a choice that they wanted the players to make. That has failed because the basic loot you get from 8+ is at most 1.2 times better than level 3. So you just keep going until you run out of supplies or see a unique.

[hasty shard]

to be pedantic they changed it from enrage to ""delve""

which is stupid

and causes this

[hard axle]

This happens all the time.

They need to stop fucking comparing shit

[hasty shard]

jagex specialty overengineering

[hard axle]

If they know it’s gonna be different

No no, not over engineering

It’s the same shit as comparing Taming to “not Summoning”

Which killed any copium of a chance

Stop comparing shit to RS3

Whether it’s by terminology or whatever

[hasty shard]

are you telling me infernal shale giving random amounts, random xp, random on breakdown, plus the 30 minute smithing minigame isn't overengineered

[hard axle]

Okay yeah that might be a little over engineered

[hasty shard]

also the whole stuff with cloth

[hard axle]

RP was definitely overcooked

[hasty shard]

and how it isnt just an area locked one click 3t item

[finite tapir]

amusingly the cloth click timing isnt even the same as what you would do for 3t mining outside

so if hypothetically someone enjoys 3t-ing with the cloth

then goes "hmm i like this, maybe i'll try granite"

they will be completely confused on how it's not working

[hasty shard]

you should watch sick nerd using the cloth for the first time

it pissed him off so much

[hard axle]

Remember when sick nerd complained about a “10th herb patch in Priff” and Jagex decided not to add it.

Pepperidge Farms remembers.

(Please go back and add the damn herb patch ffs)

[frail bough]

Can't wait for this lol

Behind the scenes, we have begun early discussions around the impact that increasing the number of worlds has on player interactions within the Wilderness, and what we might be able to do to alleviate this. There's nothing concrete for us to share yet, but when we're ready we'll look to all of you to get your feedback!

Coming soon to a world near you "you must be in a wilderness enabled world to do this content"

[finite tapir]

i mean

it'd be nice if the wildy had a risk yes

[hard axle]

Rebalance wildy - No TPs, but 5-10 more Ferox Enclave safe zones where you can tp out.

The concept of Teleblock and 1t teleports has always been cancer. It should be “Run Forrest Run.”

[finite tapir]

i had a long take about wildy ages ago which i think i still mostly agree with, being that you shouldn't be able to log out or log in while in the wildy except for in specific areas

[sacred skiff]

Ah shit yeah that reminds me to get back on my vw grind

[frail bough]

I'm just excited to see what they've cooked up and how artificial its going to feel

[sacred skiff]

It's gonna be contrived af

[finite tapir]

surely not

[sacred skiff]

And it's not going to be good for the first, second, third, or maybe fourth iterations

[frail bough]

Designated worlds for content people want to do together works well.

Designated worlds for things people don't does not

[bronze kernel]

My take is remove PvP entirely from the Wilderness or make it opt in. But make opt in more lucrative than opt out

[finite tapir]

if opt-out is added, remove all uniques while opting out

[bronze kernel]

Opt in is automatically skulled and only then can have access to stuff like Chaos Altar or Wildly Slayer for example.

[finite tapir]

also all supply drops

[bronze kernel]

I would say uniques but at a reduced rate. Like the on-task boost

[finite tapir]

sure 1/5k instead of 1/1k from calvarion

[bronze kernel]

I would say it's really only the voidwaker pieces that should be reduced rate

Everything else seems fine to keep as is, or a slightly reduced rate

Also, no rev caves if opt out of course

Wildly agility but no loot (Maybe keep the bonus XP TBH)

[finite tapir]

errr

no

lmfao absolutely not

if there's literally no risk (e.g. in a mass) it's about 68k xp/hr

that is ridiculous

[minor whale]

I think worlds just not having a Wildy would be fine

[bronze kernel]

Problem is content that is arbitrarily there

Or sends you there

Family Crest, Clues, KBD

[minor whale]

There shouldn't be any sort of opting in or out while in the Wildy unless opting out removes all money makers, uniques, quests, mini quests, or XP gathering

[sacred oracle]

Just removing wildy except from a certain subset of worlds would solve the problem of it being so dead

If that's really a problem

I don't know if Jagex consider that a problem tbh

Wilderness is safer than it's ever been before, and I go there daily for clues and never see anyone.

[minor whale]

You absolutely should not be able to be in the Wildy doing moneymakers or training your account without being at risk of being pked

Wildy is already mega safe yeah

[cursive moss]

sorry if this has been asked before but idk where to check is there any word on whether any of the new servers would be in new locations?

[bronze kernel]

I would just say relocate all the lucrative Wilderness content to a new area

[minor whale]

That's silly

[sacred oracle]

I don't even see anyone when I go to hot spots like revenant tp for clues

I think I've seen someone only once tping to the entrance for clues

[minor whale]

Half the difficulty of lucrative Wildy content that makes it even close to balanced is that you can be attacked at any time

[bronze kernel]

Yeah, keep the lucrative stuff dangerous

[minor whale]

Saying just move it somewhere else means you've now got ridiculously easy content that shits out gp and uniques

[bronze kernel]

But keep the more meanial stuff that people go there for safe

[minor whale]

What would that be?

[sacred oracle]

I don't really support opt-in or opt-out of pvp; I'm all or nothing on it

I think you opt in by entering wildy in the first place personally

[minor whale]

Yeah you either enter the Wildy or you don't
If you enter you've opted in

[sacred oracle]

Not really interested in changing that

[hard axle]

I still think Voidwaker pieces should untradeable until fuse together

that instantly kills bots by half

[sacred oracle]

It's crazy how low the price is on voidwaker pieces now

[bronze kernel]

I would say just remove all content that has no real purpose being there out of the Wilderness

[sacred oracle]

I don't know how much of that is attributable to bots and how much is just normal devaluation of an item over time, especially as competing items release

[minor whale]

But what content is that
There's plenty of content that makes sense to be somewhere you can be pked

[hard axle]

I would say just remove all content that has no real purpose being there out of the non-Wilderness

see what I did there

[bronze kernel]

You also now have the issue with the Wilderness Diary too

[sacred oracle]

I don't know if I'd want voidwaker pieces to be untradable. It's super annoying having dead pieces of an unfinished item in your bank.

It would be sra all over again

[minor whale]

Dark crabs - afk as shit bis food
Black Chins - bis hunting moneymaker
Clues - part of the balance of clues/hr is by counting in Wildy steps
I don't really think there's many things in the Wildy that don't fit in the wildy

[bronze kernel]

The biggest problem is the current system is trying to bait people in

[sacred oracle]

[minor whale]

It's not being baited in, it's weighing risk vs reward
It's not like the Wildy is a mystery as to how it works, where you enter and oh no I'm suddenly attacked and had no way of knowing
It's "here's content in an area you can be attack in, do it or don't"

[bronze kernel]

I would say just remove clues, Abyss, KBD, and move Family Crest demon out, mainly.

[sacred oracle]

And there's nothing mains have to get in wilderness, it's all optional. You can just choose not to go there and get the stuff if pvp is super objectionable to you

Except I think quest cape now depends on doing a miniquest in the wilderness

Which was an odd move

[hard axle]

That’s why it’s actually worth something

[sacred skiff]

Does quest cape require miniquests?

I didn't think so

[sacred oracle]

It didn't before

[minor whale]

Family Crest demon is in such low level wilderness that it's basically not even a threat at all

[hard axle]

only people who get fucked by it being untradeable are pet hunters that spoon on one and go dry on the other

[sacred oracle]

But [[The General's Shadow]] is a prerequisite for [[Secrets of the NOrth]]

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/The_General's_Shadow
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Secrets_of_the_North

[hard axle]

3 siren staff, no eye of Duke

[sacred oracle]

I thought at some point you had to go into wilderness for one of the miniquests, but that one's not it

May be remembering wrong

[frank hull]

its random. sometimes you dont have to

[sacred oracle]

Oh, I'm thinking Curse of the Empty Lord, a prerequisite for The General's Shadow

[frank hull]

oh right thats what i was thinking of too when i answered

[sacred skiff]

Rogues Castle ghost location gang

love that

[frank hull]

every single one of my accounts is in the gang

[sacred skiff]

Pretty sure I've always had it too

[bronze kernel]

This is the type of stuff I say that should be relocated elsewhere

[sacred oracle]

There's no reason for it to be in wilderness, but there's no reason for it to be outside wilderness either

I don't think there's a right or wrong way here

[sacred skiff]

The reason for it to be one or the other

[sacred oracle]

I just happen to think it's fine it's in wilderness and have no reason to change it

[sacred skiff]

Is because it is for some, and isn't for others lol

[bronze kernel]

The cat and mouse system is a failed system

[obsidian venture]

Vw pieces untradeable would keep up its value. It’s why people who get the sra fully completed can cope it’s good and or sell for good value

[true talon]

Most uniques in the wildy area outside voidwaker is dogshit anyways. I’d def love opt out revs or wildy bosses for their base loot only while being able to use giga max gear.

[obsidian venture]

Wildy content for the most part is insane reward for the risk. If there was no risk, people would literally camp there for a few skills and or gp

[sacred skiff]

revs base loot is so busted lol wtf

[obsidian venture]

Very

[true talon]

Risk don’t really exist for most content in the wildy, it’s more the annoyance factor

[obsidian venture]

Well it’s annoying yes but that is also the risk lmao. You can safely tank for the most part

If you happen to plank unlucky

[bronze kernel]

Solution is to find a way to completely separate the two groups away from each other.

[obsidian venture]

Also in most cases you will profit gp or xp when dying regardless

[bronze kernel]

Oh, you also have CAs as well. Almost forgot

[obsidian venture]

It’s why chaos altar is so good even in 2025

[true talon]

Yea unless you die every single trip to wildy boss or revs. You will greatly profit at both moment your left alone.

It’s the annoyance of being attacked thwy is deterrent to the actual risk of your items

[obsidian venture]

If you die every single trip you need to logout and delete the account. Like it’s very hard to consistently die 😭

[true talon]

Losing ether as an example on iron is a massive time sink loss

[obsidian venture]

I pk and pvm in the wildy so I can see both sides

[bronze kernel]

To be honest, I think content is more enjoyable if you can go at full power and not having to take a half assed set up to not lose millions if you get caught and can't escape

[obsidian venture]

I don’t disagree

[bronze kernel]

I picked Wildly in the last Leagues for this reason

[obsidian venture]

But that is the caveat of the wildy and why it’s unique

[bronze kernel]

I can actually fight bosses in a full on power setup and not worry

[true talon]

Yea the being pked factor is very low as most gear is not worth much

[obsidian venture]

Wildy weapons in rags are insane dps for the pvm there while
Providing good xp

Don’t even need max to feel the power of them

[velvet orchid]

Depends on the weapon

[obsidian venture]

@odd stump you also have to peep this sometimes

[velvet orchid]

Ww for sure, gear matters alot more with the other 2 especially mace

Still very strong

[obsidian venture]

Can be in rags with the other two and be fine tbh

[velvet orchid]

I mean yes and no

[obsidian venture]

I’ve used all in pisslow gear and it’s not a crazy difference. It does scale nicely tho if you’re willing to bring more risk

If anything, sceptre to some degree

[velvet orchid]

Like rags being occult torm ward and staff and using mystics then yeah

Well tbh ig it is still strong

[minor whale]

Unskulled rev dragons are 30k/kill of supplies (no uniques or statues)
That'd be ridiculous to have outside the wildy

[velvet orchid]

Even 1 item skull setup

But gear helps non ww still a lot

[obsidian venture]

Yeah like hitting 40+ in rags

For sure

I’m just saying base weapons in the wildy are juiced

So it’s ok to not bring max

Like you still feel like you’re whopping things (which is good)

[velvet orchid]

As someone who plays ironman and has no reason to do interact with other players in the wilderness if they ever added opt out i would one tick quit this game.

[sacred skiff]

They're not gonna add opt-out

[velvet orchid]

I do think they should stop trying to incentive players to go into the wilderness and focus on players that do but when they tried to do that the player base freaked out because they were adding content that doesnt benefit them

[sacred skiff]

None of the "Concerns" about wildy being too empty are coming from people who are just there to pvm

[velvet orchid]

Polling for pvp is very bad practice as people just concede on both sides untill we get a product that no one wants but people aren't opposed to

[hard axle]

I forget what my wildy boss kc, but I’m not going to pretend it was active as shit

It was very chill already.

[sacred skiff]

Yeah I'm at like 700 combined for all 3 singles, and have died like twice

ofc those deaths were after I got rev weapons -.-

[velvet orchid]

Singles bosses were designed around hcim

[sacred skiff]

They're pretty free with a scout

[velvet orchid]

In my opinion anyway

[sacred skiff]

So I should def finish VW before they are made not that way

[velvet orchid]

No bots at artio and Calv atm

I got a buddy who just did those 2 pets

Spindle packed tho

[sacred skiff]

Cuz they're all at spi

Yeah lmao

[hard axle]

I’m like 7k kc total probably

I still think singles shouldn’t have existed

[velvet orchid]

Im over 40k but mostly from big team multi

[hard axle]

dumb as fuck to be able to teleport out

[hard axle]

Yeah that’s inflated af

[velvet orchid]

I agree but also i dont think the bosses should be how you get voidwaker

[hard axle]

better that than lms or BH

[velvet orchid]

I don't think it should come from a pvp activity

Bone claws has helped make it less essential for pvmers but its still a great item for pvm

[bronze kernel]

Clearly should be a quest reward

[sacred skiff]

It was in rs3 lmao

[bronze kernel]

[sacred skiff]

VW is literally the opposite of what they said, when they gave d pick a source outside of wildy

[velvet orchid]

Fun fact the first blog said it won't be as op as the pre eoc version because they won't add the ring from rs3 that allowed you to double spec with it

Then the next day they went what if we make it 50%

[hard axle]

You’re getting pked

[velvet orchid]

It should be 55%

[sacred skiff]

You won't need to go to the wildy for things that aren't specifically used there, not including MA2 cape

[hard axle]

Arkan Blade is mini VW

[velvet orchid]

I was legit fuming reading the blogs

[bronze kernel]

Voidwaker is still guaranteed damage compared to Arkan

[velvet orchid]

They said voidwaker won't be useful in pvm

I also voted no to Arkan it sounded to strong for the cost. TLDR it was

[sacred skiff]

imagine

I lol'd when they were like "people are saying the crossbow offhand seems too weak to come from 80-something slayer, so we made it like 77 instead"

So when inevitably it's stronger than they calc, are they gonna raise the slayer level of aquanites?

[sterile breach]

vw is the best addition, people claim to love this game so much but refuse to step foot in wildy, how can you possibly appreciate an entire game when you leave such a large part out. It's like the only time pvmer will ever go to wild in their entire character play time 🤷🏿‍♂️

[dire mango]

"Oops, we powercrept the buckler, but the item is already in the game and the people have invested hours already. It would be unfair to change anything now for the 9-5 irons that didn't get to 'abuse early'."

[sacred skiff]

It's def gonna tank buckler prices

Seems kinda fun to sometimes shoot twice though

And means I don't have to go back to scorpia for last odium piece before buckler so I'm fine with it lol

But it was weird that instead of weakening/strengthening it, they changed the slayer level by like 4

[hard axle]

Ngl, iron should be treated like a 9-5 grind cuz it’s a challenge mode

[sacred skiff]

Tell my manager that

[neon gate]

Do we know when dmm is

It's supposed to be this winter

But griddy and sailing are both this year already

[tacit wharf]

winter doesnt start till mid dec

so jan/feb

[bronze kernel]

If I had to guess, after Gridmaster so maybe early December.

[ember token]

ash said some time after christmas

[tacit wharf]

thats not winter

[bronze kernel]

I would say it's probably Gridmaster > DMM blog > DMM > Sailing > Vampire quest

[ember token]

swap around sailing and dmm and you're correct

[bronze kernel]

Roadmap can be subject to change

[tacit wharf]

its not

they confirmed sailing is autumn still

[odd stump]

tyty

[bronze kernel]

Kind of an odd placement TBH

To have it right before DMM

[tacit wharf]

its not

u have all of dec/part of january

between them

[bronze kernel]

Although boat battles in DMM

"Look at me. I'm the captain now"

https://tenor.com/view/captain-phillips-boat-hijack-im-the-captain-now-barkhad-look-at-me-gif-4242563

[tacit wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/walk-the-plank-pirate-shark-shark-infested-gif-12794000

[ember token]

sailing is most likely going to be nov 19 or nov 26, which leaves them a few weeks to do updates and fixes before they're off on holiday

and we should probably also get a DMM blog in november or maybe later this month, because it's at minimum coming in January

I'm guessing we won't learn more about blood moon rises until the winter summit

[tacit wharf]

think blog would be closer to x-max if not when they return in january, then dmm 2 or 3 weeks after that

[ember token]

past 2 DMMs, the blog has been about 2 months in advance

[tacit wharf]

ahh k

[ember token]

apocalypse blog went up june 30, started august 23

armageddon, may 21 blog and then july 17 start

the release date being 2 months in advance gives people enough time to request work off n stuff

[bronze kernel]

Kind of funny if it drops before the first week of December since I just incidentally scheduled PTO for that week just so I can use it up and not lose it

Same thing happened to me with Gridmaster and Varlamore Part 3

[ember token]

also keep in mind raging echoes league released on thanksgiving so it wouldn't at all being surprised if Sailing also released on thanksgiving

[tacit wharf]

i dont think they'd drop the week after grind ends tbh, so a thanksgiving release, i feel, would be more than likely

[ember token]

it also can't really be any later unless they plan to stay over the holidays

[mellow pewter]

Why 2350 worlds? Just add more of the 2250s. IMO that's a way better solution as opposed to creating servers that almost zero people will be on.

[ember token]

if players didnt want 2350 worlds, they wouldnt have voted yes to them

just like how not enough people wanted 2200 worlds changed to 2250 worlds, so that question failed

[stuck mauve]

yeah

[tacit wharf]

was a skip question enjoyer for those 2, as i didnt mind either way

[sacred oracle]

I wanted both

I think 2200 is too low if we're adding 99 more levels

But I wanted 2350 more, so it's fine

I never used 2200 worlds anyway because what I really wanted was a max-only world, and 2350 is as close as we're gonna get to that

[austere mulch]

2350 will have plenty of eligible players. Current maxed players just need 73* sailing for access and there are tons + plenty more within striking distance

People don’t generally use the worlds not because they can’t, but because they objectively suck

High, variable ping

[jagged marsh]

boaty number. bpatu numeral. ginger digit.

the 73

[sacred skiff]

Man I hope Sailing comes out the 19th not the 26th

I can justify taking off work the Wed before thanksgiving to send some serious gamer hours, but I can't take time off seeing the family the 26th lmao

[austere mulch]

tell them youll see them in game

[sacred skiff]

Catch me on the high seas, uncle

[deft barn]

They said dmm is after christmas

[half adder]

All I want for halloween

[meager flame]

Where

[deft barn]

#old-school message

[meager flame]

Tbh kinda tragic

Means the actual interesting updates are even further back next year lol

[tacit wharf]

i mean winter doesnt start till the 21st of dec, no sure why people would think it wouldnt be till after their winter break at the earliest

[meager flame]

I’m just sick of massive updates and temp modes tbh

Updates that are interesting are few and far between

[tacit wharf]

just cuz its not to you, doesnt mean its not for others

[meager flame]

I was talking about myself so lol

[spare canopy]

Temp modes are to keep people engaged, ya know? RS is a grind fest and people get burnt. I understand what you mean, but for a lot it’s a break in the monotony. You also gotta think about it from a business standpoint. There’s a bunch of big creators getting into OSRS, and pushing temp modes brings in more viewers/content 😁

[meager flame]

I think it’s not even that so much as changing how they do content

They keep cycling us through big release windows where they’ll release 3 or 4 quests a new boss a new part of varlamore skilling activities etc in one go

Where they previously would do those things mostly one at a time

Basically makes the game start to feel seasonal

Then you show up to most weekly updates like

https://tenor.com/view/maçavras1-gif-16101498646883457546

Between them lol

[chrome lantern]

I think it’s even worse to back port stuff if it’s completely different because it showed that they only care about the name being the same tbh

Like I said, I think synapses are the only good thing to come from WGS, but I do think they have some flaws as well

I do like the punish mechanic but it’s a drop in the bucket on 600 hp, getting through killing TDs is a slog like nothing else in the game, neither active nor afk, which is the worst category of content

[chrome lantern]

Shaman water strike

[chrome lantern]

Remember when Hueycoatl hide was released as “prayer ranged gear” but is just worse crystal and god vambs

[chrome lantern]

It’s not the first time we’ve seen disconnects between the concept, coders, and blog writers, and unfortunately I don’t think it will be the last. They just never addressed the discrepancy

[meager flame]

tbh i think the synapse problem isn't really even a synapse problem

they built out like this massive path through the game where you basically get synapses and that turns into tons of really good gear and progression

[austere mulch]

Raid 4 in late summer/early fall if lucky

[meager flame]

like they just kept going back to demons

all year

so now you can basically wgs rush and just like follow the demon progression for awhile if you were starting out now

[narrow folio]

It's just yama + delve

[meager flame]

and those happen to drop

an entire melee set of gear a shadow alternative bis gloves bis boots

plus the old demon bosses that also aren't bad

you end up with a lot of really good stuff

[austere mulch]

20hrs or so for avg completion at delve too which is insane

Unless you get my rng

Currently almost 1400 deep delves no boots ama

[analog crow]

have you considered being lucky?

[meager flame]

i finished at like 600 deep delves thank god it was looking bad

i didnt have anything up to like 300 lol

[austere mulch]

I completed superiors on my iron before 70 slayer so maybe I just used up a lifetime of RNG there

[chrome lantern]

My clanmate went 2000 deep for his on his iron

[austere mulch]

At least doom is fun enough to do one run a day and not feel too bothered by it. It’s just engaging enough to not hate entirely

[austere mulch]

Ooof

[chrome lantern]

Yeah I like doom

My pb is only 21 though

[austere mulch]

I either die at like 15 from brain rot or finish my supplies at 40-45, no in between lol

On the topic of the next raid tho, I wonder when we’ll start getting more details on it since it’s posed for next year currently

[tacit wharf]

winter summit

would be my guess

or they hold off and wait till a summer announcement and use the winter summit to talk about the vamp gm quest/city

[chrome lantern]

Surely you must also understand that calling something endgame content without actually making them do the challenging parts of the content is inane

[hard axle]

pisses me off cuz wgs armor could've been prossy upgrade

and colo could've been ranged prayer equivalent

[chrome lantern]

Instead you get untradeable worse def prossy for what, zombie pirates?

[meager flame]

this is the way

lmao i dont even bring supplies to go super deep anymore because before i finished

i was so checked out i basically had a planned death

[chrome lantern]

When will we get forestry part 20, speaking of

[chrome lantern]

I don’t really see this as an issue of “baiting people into the wilderness” and more that people feel too entitled to have access to everything even when they can just avoid it. If you value the reward more than you dislike the content, you’ll do it

[bronze kernel]

Still a pretty bad philosophy to "force" certain things into the PvP zone IMO. Things like quests that are considered vital for progression and things that are randomly selected like Wildly clues.

[sacred skiff]

Sure, but if you dislike the content a lot, but value the content more (e.g. VW is the best spec weapon in many places), you’ll do the content but it will still suck

[chrome lantern]

No content in this game is required, and that’s one of the best things about it

You can ignore entire quests and skills and still play and enjoy the game. Will you “miss out” on access to some stuff? Yes, and that’s good

But just as you’re going to like some bosses and hate others, like some skills and hate others, wildy and nonwildy is fine too

[austere mulch]

Tutorial island is 😭😭

Or can you skip it now?

[bronze kernel]

Don't think quests or miniquests should require venturing into the Wilderness (Regardless of how low level it is) just as a matter of principle

[austere mulch]

I know you could at one point

But maybe that was rs2

[obsidian venture]

Idk wildy is a core aspect of osrs. You can like it or hate it but it’s fair game if Jagex includes content there you need to engage with

[chrome lantern]

True

[chrome lantern]

I think the Wilderness/Forinthry is a large portion of this game’s world and history, and outright discounting it would be horrible from a lore/thematic perspective.

I do think it’s a bit annoying you can just get screwed over by Rogue castle Viggora (all of my accounts) but I also think it’s healthy to have lore that shows stuff used to be there but isn’t anymore, or some small remnants

[sacred skiff]

Can I pay 50m to have my Viggora move to the good location lol

[tacit wharf]

rouge caste viggora isnt even that bad, just sucks when u forget yr ring

[bronze kernel]

I would say just have the clue step work from any location and call it a day

[tacit wharf]

and its not even the worst wildy step (chaos alter trio or lava dragons uri)

[bronze kernel]

Lava dragon one is an absolute troll for irons too

I find it hilarious

[bronze kernel]

I died to a clan once while doing the step. It's like having 2 clans at once!

[meager flame]

i dont even really know what they can do about the wilderness

like i definitely would not delete the wild but its also really obvious that they just failed honestly

you never want to make a piece of your game important and have tons of people interacting with it and have most of them tell you it sucks

i also think their game design got progressively less healthy the more they tried to save it

because their strat seems to basically just be "lol a shit load of everything drops for no reason come get free loot omg risk" while you wear 20k in gear

[obsidian venture]

I like the wildy a lot but yeah it has some glaring issues

Would be nice to get an overhaul and some way to prevent the widespread botting

[tacit wharf]

id do some redrawing of the multi-lines, make all of 30+ wildy multi/below singles, move all big bosses above 30+, single bosses 20-30, keep zombie pirates area multi, seed pods become 50k ea and break down if u tele while in combat

a few things

[meager flame]

that is the other thing that im not sure what you can even do about it

[obsidian venture]

Not sure a risk to npc would be better?

I pk quite a bit and you don’t run into many clienters

[meager flame]

pvp in video games is something that you just have to understand going in that some people will fundamentally hate before they even try it

[obsidian venture]

And if you do, it’s mainly in singles if you’re risking giga max

[meager flame]

some people just mentally crumble because they know its pvp

[obsidian venture]

Yeah

[meager flame]

so its kind of a bad idea a lot of the time to make that important if your games main selling point isn't pvp to begin with

[obsidian venture]

Pvp is really fun and I wish more people weren’t scared

[meager flame]

its not even an osrs problem you see it happen in any pve games that also have pvp

[tacit wharf]

im suprised they havent changed the dspear/ancient mace spec'ing people in multi yet

[meager flame]

tbh im surprised they didn't just remove multi from a bunch of worlds

[tacit wharf]

u need multi or u get maxers running around the entire wild

[meager flame]

but yeah idk it would be cool to see them actually rework the entire wild

theres so many problems big and small that it kinda seems like the only option if they really want to change things

[hard axle]

People consider basic features as problems, as well as yap when they don't even get involved or understand balance

Every single time this comes up, you have dumbasses campaigning for their own downfall by saying "get rid of wildy changes" so I don't have to read a textbook, which is just an exaggeration on what the changes actually are.

News flash, you still have to read a textbook because you won't know what's hitting you and to better survive, you should study up.

Same for PVM - You can either experiment or you read up on shit that people put together over the years.

[ionic tartan]

TBF, I think the tiny icons rule for wildy is excessive.

But yeah, 2t BP and powered staffs would probably make survival much harder, especially when mage is currently the lower-dps style.

[hard axle]

Disrespectfully to people who make grand statements with 0 nuance, those guys are still going to cry about wildy even if all wildy nerfs/buffs are removed.

They'll find out that the ability to angler to 121 in combat isn't going to do jack in a Singles 1v1 with a 3-way Ayak/Confliction/Occult

[hasty shard]

christ thats not even a super expensive setup 😭

[hard axle]

it's not

that's the terrifying part of it

[hasty shard]

accursed works in pvp i feel i should mention that

[meager flame]

i mean the wilderness ui differences are something jagex should have never started

idk why they even like

[hard axle]

there are ones that make sense and ones that don't

[meager flame]

did that lol

[hard axle]

I just hate people who act like all wildy changes

are bad

like mfer, get a shadow smacking ur face in pvp and then you'll see the problem

[meager flame]

in pretty much every case i can think of the skill isn't even about clicking the tiny ice barrage icon or w/e its about knowing when to do it

i kinda think it was mostly the devs not understanding that

[hasty shard]

its underrated ngl (cope)

spec that reduces mage level!!

[meager flame]

since obviously if you were trying to get good at pvp and you were playing at like

idk 4k and your icons were too small to accurately click to begin with

you'd just change the games resolution to resolve that

they're just making it more annoying

[hard axle]

if it's allowed on mobile

it should be allowed on desktop

like cmon dude

[hasty shard]

ngl i'd wanna see higher res stuff in the future

just cause the games scaling options are such ass

[meager flame]

i also just think theres a level of consistency needed in the game where your ui and buttons should just function the same at all times

[hasty shard]

blurry game for like 80% of the playerbase or you squint and use 1/8th of your screen

[hard axle]

yep

even 15% scaled ui

is awful

[meager flame]

if i could actually make jagex do one thing

it would be forcing them to allow you to scale your ui elements individually however you want

[hasty shard]

also come on the way inventory icons render

that has to be such an easy thing to scale 😭

[meager flame]

rather than needing to scale the entire client

[hasty shard]

it feels tailor made to literally upscale

tbh now that you can disable minimap scaling might be marginally better

but eh

[meager flame]

they sorta even tried to address that

nobody uses their client but

you can actually scale the entire ui separately from the game world

which is a good step

but

[hasty shard]

REALLY wish runelite did this lol

[meager flame]

for example i might want to make my inventory etc bigger but have no reason to make my chat box the size of a small country in the process

[hasty shard]

integer scaling option is baffling to me cause it doesn't just affect ui

[meager flame]

idk if runelite even can do something like that

if they can and they haven't though

idk whats wrong with them lmao

[hasty shard]

gpu scales game space fine pretty sure

[meager flame]

its gotta be like

some kind of engine problem though fundamentally

[hasty shard]

like overlays are affected by scaling

[meager flame]

theres no way we're in 2025 and having problems like this lmao

if we were doing anything even remotely modern

we'd be able to go to settings and turn on edit mode and just drag the corners of stuff to resize ui elements

[hasty shard]

we do get that just an insanely slow drip feed of it

scalable collection log batchest

[meager flame]

ya like if they would just give me that

for the inventory, map and chat box separately

it would be good enough

and i guess you'd have to include this separately too

if you were playing modern resizable

im assuming most people would probably detach that and make it pretty small

[craggy radish]

There is a chat box resize plugin tho

[dire mango]

It feels buggy as heck to use

[craggy radish]

Agree, but is nice if fully scaling up ui

I think when the bank is open it reverts it visually so ye little weird

And u can hide the resize buttons so it looks clean

Worth a look

[meager flame]

ya i use it but i'd really rather the game just get some good ui options baseline

tbh

assuming their plugin hub comes out and their api lets me do enough

i'll just do it myself eventually

[median ermine]

hi, I missed if we got any feedback on the rune pouch topic? Will the update be reverted or ideally properly reworked?

[frail bough]

idk if anything mentioned explicitly but there isnt an update this week so likely nothing happening till after gridmaster maybe

[median ermine]

hope that at least it's acknowledged that the new pouch interface and naming options needs to be revisited.

Not to sound so negative, rest of the updates were great! The stash one was fire 🔥

[ember token]

I would not be surprised if it doesn't get revisited until next year

[woven cove]

i see there are comming 60 new worlds ?

[ember token]

for grid master

[woven cove]

i hope they will bring Dutch worlds

[nocturne solstice]

I feel like Europe is already a little spoiled for worlds there

Same with USA

[stuck mauve]

so next up is asia

[nocturne solstice]

I would go with asia or south america yeah

[woven cove]

i see only german and uk worlds

no dutch flags so as in the old days

[nocturne solstice]

They still exist in rs3

[meager flame]

tbh i hope they can be convinced to change what they see as acceptable performance on their worlds

it really sucks how you can tell when we're really close to like an anticipated release because more people are online and likely doing stuff that's a little harder on the worlds

and everything is running notably worse

[stuck mauve]

!rank

[junior ether]

_truers, that command is disabled in this channel.

[ember token]

owned

[odd stump]

btfo

[dire mural]

Do we know how quests will function in grid master will it be like storylime unlocks or what

[ember token]

we do not

[stuck mauve]

i don't want to quest again

😦

[ember token]

i want to quest again

🙂

[stuck mauve]

for the 10th time?

[ember token]

2nd time

[stuck mauve]

oh

[dire mural]

This one only running 4 weeks they should just be done

Oh u havent done them enough yet then

[sharp cave]

would be reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal nice if clue scroll boxes left a placeholder...

[winged mantle]

They behave the same as clue scrolls

But yes agree

[fair comet]

Me too tbh

[fossil epoch]

Me too, i sometimes make new accounts just to quest a lot

[jagged marsh]

wait wtf gridmaster has relics

i did not see this in the blog posts

[earnest marsh]

Do they even play the game? Wilderness is litterly way to overpopulated Vs back in the day

Like what are they saying, well I guess I got my answer now how they see wilderness

[winged mantle]

Are we not getting bonus worlds for sailing?

[earnest marsh]

Even if they add 20 worlds, still going to be overpopulated Vs back on the day

[nocturne solstice]

There's still a lot of pvpers that say wildy is dead so you'll have to take that opinion up with them

If you're upset about those worlds not being kept. Like ellie said, we'll be getting new worlds with sailing too since that just passed the poll.

[kind surge]

in what aspect is it dead? if you mean pking loot pinatas then the wildy's never been more infested, but if it's like actual pvp like with clans then yeah it is

[nocturne solstice]

To sum up what was like, a 2 hour discussion with some pkers

• PJ timer has ruined the pvp learning curve
• There is no pvp vs pvp fights, constantly hopping
• Even when fights occur (rarely) its only a fight if the other party wants to because escape is so easy

[kind surge]

if people want pvp (not pvmer-pking) then I think wildy is doomed in that aspect, rather have jagex focus on improving other existing areas like bh or pvp worlds for that

[shadow wave]

I mean that's still my fundamental problem with supporting any PvP update that makes the Wilderness more populated, is that why would I want to make it more likely for myself to lose money or time

[rare frost]

Oh and reddit are having the usual meltdown because they got poked doing a clue once

The thing is after the emirs arena I'm very skeptical that if they nuke wildy pvp they will just never support pvp properly again

[nocturne solstice]

Im kinda agree with you there yeah. If Jagex could find a way to make it work then fantastic but if not then minigames and pvp world seems the best place for that kinda content.

I also get that there's a food pyramid here that looks like

• Pkers killing pkers
• Pkers killing pvmers
• Pvmers

[rare frost]

I honestly think a massive issue is that irons chose to be the bottom of that pyramid and can never be anything else

[nocturne solstice]

And that the wildy is healthy when its a balanced well. Balancing it seems really difficult to the point that it might not be worth trying anymore though

[rare frost]

And most irons have never seen the other side of the curtain

[kind surge]

it's a terrible ditch they dug themselves into regarding the wildy, because they want to make the content as enticing as possible for pvmers and design the area to make it as easy as possible for it, and hope that pking is more active because of more pvmers

but at this point, it's heavily in favour of pvmers and it's pretty bad for pkers atm

[rare frost]

And tbf it's kind of worked?

But it's made things toxic

[nocturne solstice]

Not entirely true, a lot of irons are pkers because they dont get combat xp for hitting other players. They then trade to their mains by using lootkeys then getting pk'd by the main.

[rare frost]

Sure but that's not the majority

Pvp is hard and normally requires risking and dying to learn

[nocturne solstice]

By how much pkers are asking for these quest and xp changes to access stuff you'd think it is was majority

[kind surge]

idk how it is nowadays, but I got a solid foundation learning pvp from lms while I was trying to get my unlocks on my iron

[rare frost]

You also just can't skull up as an iron

[nocturne solstice]

Id say lms is still pretty good, going in rags and targetting some pvmers is fine too

BH is a bit intimidating though

[rare frost]

You aren't risking ahrims and karils to spindel

[kind surge]

black dhide or mixed hide work fine imo

[nocturne solstice]

Haha tell that to the goofy ironmen that go to the wildyon highrisk worlds and lose everything

[rare frost]

LMS is great....but they destroyed pvp arena its so bad

[nocturne solstice]

I think the number 1 ironman or something got pkd like that a month ago?

[rare frost]

Until they fix that I will not approve any paradigm shift to pvp

Yeah they misclicked ghorrok tele lol not even sympathetic

[kind surge]

pvp arena is pretty dumb yeah, I recently went there to imbue my suffering and it felt pretty bad just forfeiting

[rare frost]

You can't even use a vw fyi

In the pvp arena.....

In fact in 2025 you can't use over 50% of meta gear

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah Emir's needs a rework

[kind surge]

iirc that was an accident that they tp'd to one of the wildy spots on the ancient spellbook because of some method they were doing recently before that

[nocturne solstice]

It is what it is

[rare frost]

No hally, no virtus, no bowfa, no purging staff, no antler guard, no araneas, no voidwaker

Like at that point what's the point

[kind surge]

wait even antler guard isn't usable in pvp arena???

that was legit made for pures

[rare frost]

I know

The only reason thing that is is moons stuff because a wise dev manually whitelisted it when they added it to LMS zerker

But you can use graceful and unreleased cosmetic armour so that's cool I guess

Oh and people spite voted the rewards away so the mini game has nothing now

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah time to give it a rework and new reward poll

[hasty shard]

theres items in there that you cant even use because you are capped at 70 def or some shit

like you cant use twisted buckler 😭 ffs

[analog crow]

Wildy was a core part of the game in 2004, but it’s on life support now.

Boring grey area filled with random uninteresting content which shits out gp because «risk vs reward» is the hill they chose to die on.

And then surprisingly it becomes bot heaven.

[normal temple]

it'd be interesting if they could do a poll only for pvpers somehow, like requiring a certain amount of player kills or pvp minigame participation

I feel like that would be the only way they could do a pvp arena poll that wouldn't get spite voted to complete failure

[nocturne solstice]

I dont think spite voting has as big of an impact as people think

[frail bough]

People definitely like to lump all no votes into "spite" even though most may just not want it.

i think people would probably just vote no because they dont want it

[nocturne solstice]

I dunno if it would be possible for a pvper vote either. Anyone could go pk a friend quickly with nothing on to be able to vote.

[frail bough]

they could just do a survey asking for feedback and probably add in an option of like "i don't think pvp should be in the game" and then just ignore all feedback from those players if they wanted actual pker feedback

it wouldn't be perfect but itd probably be pretty close

spite voting or not, pvp content probably wont get yes voted so survey is likely best bet

[nocturne solstice]

They could do that but it's not really relevant when its about votes for adding content into the game rather than just feedback on current state of pvp right?

[frail bough]

could it not just be both

[nocturne solstice]

It could not

[frail bough]

how can you not implement things off of feedback?

[nocturne solstice]

Because they need to be voted in

[frail bough]

not everything has been voted into the game
id argue that pvp stuff likely need to fall under some obscure "integrity" change

cause again, people wont vote yes to it

so if they really feel strongly about pvp needing to be in the game, it has to be forced, based on feedback from the actual pvpers

im not saying they should, im saying thats the only way it works out based on current state of the game

[nocturne solstice]

I dont think whatever people are thinking of for pvp changes or additions would fall under what is defined as integrity in the polling charter.

[frail bough]

i dont either, which is why i said obscure

[nocturne solstice]

I cant see twisting the rules like that doing any good for the game. It betrays the trust of the playerbase and ironically, puts the integrity of the entire polling system into question.

[frail bough]

i dont disagree

[nocturne solstice]

Looking back at the polled Emirs arena rewards, I can see why a lot failed. Some of the gear that it would have given were quite something

[frail bough]

I'm definitely looking forward to what they think their game plan is going to be for the whole new worlds stuff.

Would feel weird if they more/less arbitrarily change how many worlds you can go into wilderness on based on the current player population. It sort of feels like current players being "punished" for finding empty worlds because the current worlds cant handle the full population to begin with.

[nocturne solstice]

Going off the wrathmaw proposal I think they'll try moreso to create events to cause players to group together rather than anything "out of game" like world restrictions.

[frail bough]

Could be, i definitely forgot about that

[nocturne solstice]

The rift system we see in DMM also seems really popular so who knows, might see something like that transfer over too

[sharp cave]

Yeeee lure more people who dont want to pvp into pvp situations!

Nothing better than when im doing content and im set back 5 minues every 2nd kill regearing my 50k risk

[obsidian venture]

Ty for donations

[chrome lantern]

I remember when Bane attacked my iron when I was doing 95-99 thieving

[rare frost]

Then don't go lol

That's like saying we shouldn't have uniques locked behind hard pvm because some irons will feel forced to get good

[chrome lantern]

Yeah I said similar stuff yesterday

[obsidian venture]

Nah legit

[obsidian venture]

🤝

[chrome lantern]

I think you were one of like only 2-3 people that attacked me the whole 95-99

[shadow wave]

As long as the best argument for PvP is "well if you don't like it don't do it" I'll continue to vote no to PvP content

[chrome lantern]

How is that different from any skill or boss that you don’t personally enjoy though

Would you blanket vote no to all rc content if you dislike rc

[marsh oxide]

thats kinda the move tbh, just vote no on all pvp content and eventually pvp community will either concede the current model is unsustainable or just quit

[shadow wave]

If adding GotR meant that I had a random chance to be killed when doing Vorkath I'd probably vote no to it

[rare frost]

Unexpected better from you double shine, umm subbed 😂

Osrs pvp is so hype if it dies we lose something truly special

[marsh oxide]

dont disagree, make it opt in or focus on dueling arena

if dueling arena had a proper elo system i'd probably play it nonstop it's just a complete disaster right now

[rare frost]

It is indeed, but wildy is unique and provides an experience you can't get in any other game. If I wanted pure pvp with no risk I'd play smash of league or something

[marsh oxide]

pvp is sweet, pk'ing is a relic of the past and just breeds toxic gameplay

like im sorry but no one can possibly defend the current meta of having a scout sitting outside every wildy boss it's actually so tragic that's the state of the game

[rare frost]

I don't think the system is perfect but making pvp opt in is not the solution

[marsh oxide]

albion does it really well with pvpvm dungeons, where you go in and both parties intend to fight, could look to copy that

[rare frost]

But like, you choose to go pvm specifically in the wildy?

[marsh oxide]

why not? it seems people are so hyped and amped up on pvp yet when opt in is mentioned it's like "why would anyone opt in"

[rare frost]

You know it's a hybrid pvp pvm activity

[marsh oxide]

how can both of these be true

[rare frost]

I for one would opt in, I like the tension

[marsh oxide]

sweet yeah, i would never advocate to take that away from you

[rare frost]

And if you make wildy opt in it just becomes a bland samey place as everywhere else, they lose unique boss design

At that point the wildy isn't special

[minor whale]

Opting in is you entering the wilderness

Unless opting out removes all methods of bossing, clue scroll doing, skilling, and completing quests, an opting system is silly and never coming to the game

[marsh oxide]

egh rs3 did it, I think it's more likely than you think. If it got polled I wouldn't be surprised to see 70% vote for it

I think they should just poll it though that way there's no question! if so many people don't want it, it will show in the numbers 🙂

[minor whale]

70% of people voting to make the game easier is not that high of a bar, doesn't mean the devs will ever poll it
The only way it'll change would be something like limited wilderness worlds where you strictly can't enter the wildy on any worlds but those
And pkers are a pretty sizeable contingent of players, along with all the people who think it's just a bad idea

[obsidian venture]

Doesn’t have to be toxic. I have a lot of encounters that end up in a “gf” or even a conversation afterwards. In some cases I just simply don’t hit folks because I respect the convo we’ve have. Things are only toxic if you push for it like anything else. This is such a poor take from you

[chrome lantern]

Yeah I wasn’t upset at all when Bane’s team attacked me

And I didn’t know it was him until after

[obsidian venture]

People expect toxicity to be a default when 1) They themselves add to it or 2) You have this pre-conception from little experience

There’s toxicity in all communities (skillers, pvmers, pvpers) but that doesn’t mean it’s the default

[sharp cave]

?? Bounty hunter and the duel arena exists

People killing people trying to clog wildy bosses is as much pvp as flying around starter zones and ganking levellers in wow is pvp

Its absolutely absurd

[obsidian venture]

Bounty Hunter isn’t nhing and duel arena offers nothing

[sharp cave]

These people are not here to pvp, they are here to farm gold off the defenceless

[marsh oxide]

yeah that's why my biggest request would be a proper mmr/elo system for duel arena

[obsidian venture]

The main issue is the amount of worlds folks have to hop to find someone

[marsh oxide]

would be super hype to see and encourage people to actually grind up from low rank to higher rank

[obsidian venture]

So to fill that time you kill whoever

It’s the nature of the wildy

Risk for reward

And wildy has a lot of rewards

[obsidian venture]

This would be cool yes

[sharp cave]

Yeah the amount of time I have to spend looking to kill defenceless pinatas is too long! Please someone think of the pkers!

[obsidian venture]

They’d need to adjust emirs arena

[sharp cave]

I'm sick of people saying this shit is pvp, when it simply isnt

[obsidian venture]

Yeah I mean if you dont understand what the wilderness is, I can’t help you

[sharp cave]

And it should be purged from the game

[obsidian venture]

It is pvp

Learn to anti pk or tank better

There’s skill sets in that

[marsh oxide]

Yeah Im guilty of this too but it's so important to seperate pvp from predator vs prey/pking

[sharp cave]

Yeah so is ganking low level players in wow

[marsh oxide]

Very different things, i love pvp but pking is a blight to the game

[obsidian venture]

It’s a fun thing if you ever engage with it but I doubt you would

[sharp cave]

Its such a night and day difference from 2006 era pking

When people were here for the fun

Not the profit per hour from defenceless people pvming

Its such a shame

[obsidian venture]

It’s still a lot of fun but yeah we aren’t ever returning to that era

[ionic tartan]

I'd say the PvP "victim"/"prey" narrative is the dumbest part of talking about the wildy nowadays.

[obsidian venture]

Elaborate

[ionic tartan]

Like players learned to PvM better and fight caves are a joke. And escaping with freeze log is easier than ever.

[minor whale]

It's always been part of the wilderness

People just got pissy about it in the past 5 years

[sharp cave]

It isnt even high risk high reward tbh

[obsidian venture]

It is

[small anvil]

The wilderness used to be the only real way to get pvp

[obsidian venture]

Wildy incentives are insane

[ionic tartan]

But the "victim"/"prey" narrative keeps getting pushed, when it's 10x easier to end a PvP encounter than before.

[sharp cave]

Its low risk and annoying as hell, high reward

[minor whale]

Pvmers have never had an easier time escaping than modern day OSRS

[obsidian venture]

Yeah

[obsidian venture]

Generally by crybaby adults

[small anvil]

The entire design about "revitalizing" the wildy was about luring people in with rewards

[obsidian venture]

Honestly sucks to be a victim so much 😭

[small anvil]

Like yes people over state how helpless they are

[minor whale]

Almost like there weren't these massive gp-shitting-out resources and bosses in the Wildy then outside of what, kbd?

[marsh oxide]

predator vs. prey is just game terminology lol to describe two different parties with conflicting goals

[ionic tartan]

I'm just enjoying the irony, how Jagex catering to that "victim"/"prey" narrative has made wildy PvP even more into that dynamic (a lot more megageared pvpers, pkers being super safe)

[small anvil]

And would rather whine than learn to escape better

[limber briar]

I mean with being able to log out on rev Knights/dark beast then scout alting with player indicators on for the 3 wildy bosses no risk for high reward.

[minor whale]

People crying that pkers just want loot pinatas while they're killing a boss with 0 mechanics and getting 5m/hr lmfaooooo

[obsidian venture]

Like the amount of times people actually escape is insane