#game-update

1 messages · Page 97 of 1

idle rapids
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and RC has a lot of variety of options these days Shrug

last onyx
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So we all agree that agility needs a AFK-course than?

small anvil
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Afk should be meaningfully worse than higher intensity options. 35k/hr beats out foot pedal brimhaven lol

idle rapids
small anvil
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I think agility needs an option that's less than 1click / min in the 15-20k range

sharp cave
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U need to click the pillars no???

idle rapids
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no

small anvil
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Brimhaven has a one click option to go back and forth on an obstacle

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That you can foot pedal

sharp cave
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Thats funny lmao

idle rapids
sharp cave
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37k??? Wtf

idle rapids
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you can click the pillars for extra xp then its like 40k

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yea its pretty op lol

sharp cave
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Might start doing that when watching anime lol

torn portal
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Or you could just do any rooftop course and just click less often?

idle rapids
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and this vid is just showing a vanilla setup for it you can use detached camera plugin and make it so where clicking any part of the screen gives exp

small anvil
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Yeah, as far as low attention methods goes it's busted

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But it does require clicking

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So it's not really mobile or true afk friendly

sharp cave
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U can only walk around

idle rapids
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you only need to walk for it lol

sharp cave
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.....wow

idle rapids
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you path into the trap and get exp

small anvil
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Brim auto paths you past a trap

sharp cave
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Thats crazy

small anvil
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And you auto attempt it

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But like you saying this is crazy is exactly why 35k/hr on actual afk is absurd

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Actual afk should be meaningfully worse than this i feel. Like 50%-60%

sharp cave
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I mean tbh, if we are adding an afk course id just remove jank like this

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Id the afk course is competitive with it

idle rapids
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for the afk course to make sense at 35k xp/hr itd have to cost you money instead of making you money to be able to run it lol

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pay 1m/hr for access or whatever

chrome lantern
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Colossal Wyrm is in that xp range already and it’s not 0 clicks afk

last onyx
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I'd pay whatever the price was, no matter what.

hard axle
small anvil
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50% worse than the 35k number, which is 50% of ardy

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So like 25%

hard axle
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yeah like, people will take a massive haircut/discount if they can afk

small anvil
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The only afk I didn't opt into was poh agility and that was largely cuz it was big set up cost and low rate. If poh was 20k I likely would have done it

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Well I guess I didn't do maniacal monkey Hunter too

minor whale
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Sorta like how pet hunters pretty much all do the afk Artio method if they aren't feeling up to sweating

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It's only like 20% worse than max efficiency and you click 0 times per kill

stuck mauve
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but 20% is a lot, if you go dryge then that's hundreds of hours saved or something insane like that

sacred oracle
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i didn't do it but mostly because it was boring

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it's a good method if you don't care about gp

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i just liked running around and throwing zcb specs

minor whale
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20% isn't a lot for the effort it saves
It's why stars are done by everyone even though they're hot garbage xp

final frigate
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more than 0 is more than 0 Gladge

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got hundreds of levels afking stuff i otherwise would probably never touch

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when balanced right it's really good imo, and part of that charm of being the game anyone can enjoy and progress

hard axle
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I will basically afk every afkable method and then if I wanna go hard, then I’ll do the non-afkable content

hard axle
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If you have a friend whose poh u can use, it’s big

austere mulch
small anvil
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I thought the bike was 6k

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1 XP per tick

vestal cosmos
sacred cove
stuck mauve
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dm the rotund creature for the method

hard axle
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If you stand near door, you cannot get tb’d before you see them

drifting dome
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@fading token Hey Mod Ash sorry to disturb you. I am one of the unfortunate players that plays on 200+ ping located in east africa kenya. On the server blog it was mentioned that south america and asian countries were priority. Any plans on something closer to my region? Also is there a timeline.

heavy ledge
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Holy shit someone with worse ping than me (~100). Now I feel like those people complaining about 40-60 ping 😂 sorry you’re getting overlooked man :/

tacit wharf
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i mean tbf, kenya is probably 0.5% of the population

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or roundabout

heavy ledge
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Yeah I was looking at how far like South Africa/Israel were and putting a server in either place probably wouldn’t help much

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If they don’t already have any there

meager flame
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all you gotta do is log in at prime time lately to simulate what having terrible ping would feel like

hard axle
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needless to say it gets hairy

final frigate
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Did a toa on 270ms earlier it was not a human run

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When everything is off by half a tick

last onyx
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Just died to 330ms lagg spikes in ToA just now

dark pecan
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anyone else getting lag spikes?

tame notch
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yeah im dcing, clan chat not working either

vast granite
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yep

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good ol gagex

tired oar
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servers are crashing

chilly pond
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Ufffff

tired oar
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me and all friends disconnected same time ... cant be just normal internet lag

sand zinc
verbal rover
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its so f lag

chilly pond
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Trying to run the b2b raid purp!

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We all got disconnected

timber tapir
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dc'd lol

cerulean merlin
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anyone getting network issues?

weary copper
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everyone

dull basin
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yeah servers are trashed atm

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porbably another ddos

brisk pewter
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server offline

weary copper
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can login again

forest spoke
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She’s out boys

dull basin
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yeah im back in, but im only going to skill i think hahahah

last onyx
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Constant disconnects

weary copper
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advised to stay away from dangerous content for the time being

sweet rivet
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im a new player so do i stop playing because of a ddos?

vast granite
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yes, they dont gaf about you

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get out now while you still have a life otherwise youll lose everything to gagex

sweet rivet
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im logged out

valid pewter
vast granite
valid pewter
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welp

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it has been a while since we had common ddos attacks

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all it took was having wow players for a month

vast granite
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its only been like 4 days

valid pewter
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yes, that's included in the "Common" part of my message

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haven't seen any big flurry of ddos attacks in the last year

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only last month

vast granite
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true

zinc fulcrum
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has servers stabilized yet?

vast granite
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nope

weary copper
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still lag once in a while

chilly pond
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Dammm I just wanna raid 😭

vast granite
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lmao a streamer just lost their hardcore to hespori rn

timber tapir
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lo0ol

runic torrent
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How do you even die to hespori even with dc

delicate oracle
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Lag is real, cant even farm atm

cerulean merlin
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any conspiracies about who's doingn the ddos?

rich field
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i 'died' to tempoross lol

lethal roost
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my guess is the bot farms imo

steady scroll
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WoW wants their players back

cerulean merlin
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i have this theory that A Friend is doing massive bot farms, since he's not making any content for months

topaz skiff
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its both osrs and rs3 atm

valid pewter
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A friend is playing rs3 lmao

chilly pond
narrow folio
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@patent cargo please don't bypass the filter

versed marten
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same issue

worthy orchid
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im not sure if you wanna pot content now

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like i whas goign to quest on the hardcore

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but im not sure lmao

topaz comet
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not worth it

worthy orchid
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every 30 seconds approx

rare grotto
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mods say anything in here?

torn vapor
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Mobile aswell

safe elk
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Hey, anyone having issues with logging in?

final karma
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why today ? 😭

safe elk
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I’m having major dc

vestal jetty
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They can’t keep running servers without downtime yet increases membership prices

soft lagoon
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Yes, some issues with the random disconnections

buoyant mulch
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check the old-school channel - DDOS began half hour ago roughly.

analog crow
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Hopefully once they get their new cloud based server architecture up and running this will be less of an issue

manic zephyr
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Crazy how we haven't given the electric chairs yet to ppl behind these crimes

forest spoke
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Ruin my night

still sundial
vestal jetty
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Is it working yet?

manic zephyr
soft lagoon
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this is now unplayable

light pelican
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Im sniffing my meat rn while they fix this server lag @soft lagoon

manic zephyr
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If this prolongs long enough, Jagex needs to contact the Government agency responsible for this kind of stuff

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find out whos behind it and give them the big ol nice sponge on the head and electric chair eh

buoyant mulch
# manic zephyr any idea if they will be able to eventually stop these attacks? I imagine their ...

There is, but with MMORPG's, it's a whole different beast to mitigate. Be too strict and you can prevent regular players from contacting the servers, be too lax and DDOS'es are even easier. Plus it's an old game and they never really had to counter this issue before. I imagine they're busy contacting a company like Cloudflare BTS to set up a long-term infrastructure shell to prevent DDOS's in the future.

tacit quiver
# manic zephyr If this prolongs long enough, Jagex needs to contact the Government agency respo...

Sent links to NCSC report a week ago, who are pretty good at tracing, but sure they're aware of how to report it anyway. There are things that can be put in place, depending on the type of attack, but they require knowing exactly what "normal traffic types" look like, and how to spot them, and don't often work well under the levels of requests this game would take, thankfully not too much throughput though

Edit: like WAF, AWS Shield Advanced (if in cloud yet), ISP DDoS protection (which can have negative concequences like a few weeks ago one of our ISPs started detecting Cisco SDWAN traffic as UDP flood and wiped out office to datacentre comms intermittently). There are plenty people around if Jagex want a hand with it, but just give them time and trust

silk sable
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In the UK it is a bank holiday and a sunny day.

sly trout
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Are the servers back up?

manic zephyr
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Tbh I think these kind of people who do this need same treatment as a terrorirst that committed genocide on humanity. Same punishment

modern widget
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I cri

proper plover
tacit quiver
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Computer misuse act is about all you can throw at them, but still heavy sentencing. Harming people and vandalising infrastructure are different, but based on the intent here it wouldn't be pretty

modern widget
stuck mauve
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yeah theres no need to get this upset just because you cannot smith some cannonballs

raw gale
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dont worry about the others

manic zephyr
modern widget
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No way!! 25 years to life is good enough let's not be extreme

raw gale
modern turret
modern widget
manic zephyr
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They need life minimum and live in a dark room for 10 years

modern widget
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Well I apologise for believing in 2nd chances

tacit quiver
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Just fine them for lost revenue and reputational damage, they'll be basically working to pay for shinier servers

modern widget
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Who are u to say he isn't reformed when he's free at 75?

manic zephyr
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Or they can live in ur house and u can change them

modern widget
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Depends you're right

upper lichen
stuck mauve
formal bridge
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anyonne else getting a ton of DC?

modern widget
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24/7 surveillance is needed i agree OP

tacit quiver
manic zephyr
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but seriously

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lol

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Realistically speaking, I do think 5-10 years minimium first offense

manic zephyr
meager flame
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just think about all of the people with a hardcore that they just pretty much stole 15$ from not because the server went offline

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but because they pretty much wont do anything decent for the people that they would clearly see died most likely due to their outage

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its pretty toxic when they should be able to verify exact times for all of these events and pretty much know without a reasonable doubt but still do nothing

sterile breach
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anyone else got shit ping to US west AGAIN from aus? its an extra 40ms on every us west world now, can't play again with american friends

normal lagoon
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Is the game playable now?

tacit quiver
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Been fine for me for the past hour and half, only doing mahog homes for now, but if on a HCIM while the alert is still on the status update page, remain cautious. Has been quiet in here and wasn't a couple hours ago so seems better for sure

bronze kernel
sharp cave
meager flame
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There is no real solution attacks cost less than defense

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By a large amount

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You can take just about anything down the question is how much theyre willing to invest in stopping you

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Thats why a lot of the time the people who get off on doing this eventually end up getting caught irl

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And thats how its really resolved

tacit quiver
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Especially replay attacks, depends what they're doing but yeah usually the cost is weighted to defence. Is some easier things to help mitigate the issue or effects, that would be beneficial to experience anyway (global accelerator with anycast, SaaS offerings like api gateway on ingress with specifically defined post/get calls, rest is dropped or not routed etc), but will take a lot of dev work and knowledge to integrate them into a game so built up over time - much easier with new services designed for it from day 1. Caught irl often by bragging, red hat turning themselves in and recruited, forgetting to vpn/proxy once or criminal tracing of vpn logs and activity within the vpn's network (promiscuous packet analysis enroute), there's a few ways it could go none easy

meager flame
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The part to really criticize jagex over is their lack of mitigation like

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They kinda just shrug it off and if the attack ruins your hc or you cant play the game they just tell you better luck next time

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And that is actually terrible

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Thats not a very appropriate way to handle customers lol

tacit quiver
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If a COTS ISP (openreach backed fibre) there's not much that can be done at layer 2 by the ISP but that's where the fastest to implement products usually sit. Adding firewalls during downtime the firewalls just get hit instead but are better at dealing with it than the servers I imagine, or nginx/cdn but that's latency and with ever changing calls it can't really "cache" any content. In terms of what could be done for the playerbase who suffer from it, sure there should be some way of requesting things without a full rollback, but transaction logs on databases aren't exactly nice to analyse (sure Jagex would have made custom tools for it by now), but how many staff are there compared to players and how many will be false reports.. tough break regardless

meager flame
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Like if your Uber delivery gets stolen you get a refund

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If you hire someone to come over and work on something but their car is stolen you dont pay them anyways

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Etc

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Jagex is kinda getting away with some bs

tacit quiver
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A refund doesn't remove the loss of thousands of hours committed to an account, and it's not their "fault". A middleground would be nice, fully agree on that

meager flame
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Yeah but at the very least it should start there

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Realistically they should roll hcs back when its painfully obvious what happened

wooden harbor
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surely the solution is to remove hardcore gamemode prayge

meager flame
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Jagex just always tries very hard to not be held accountable for anything lol

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Like the decades of no support more or less

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The hc thing is just a bit more obvious because its obviously wrong to charge people to play a mode and then just keep their money even if your servers are the reason the account dies

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Thats one of the first problems you'd hope to solve in some way

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It doesn't even have to be refund or whatever

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Like if your account simply started over and remained hc when you died that would be a step in the right direction

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Because at least then you wouldnt be having to purchase another sub on a new account

tacit quiver
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When it's the servers/ongoing changes/incidents yeah, or if it's near the servers like within the building or contractual agreements with suppliers (hosting providers/isps etc). Lines are blurred slightly when it's an attack or intercontinental fibre rerouting causing it, as it's not their "fault" but compromises can still take place without accepting undue blame. If a HCIM of mine got reset and lost tens of thousands of hours of effort and gear, i'd be more upset than having a kitted out iron, either way it'd be a bad day

meager flame
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Yeah its just in a spot where there is no attempt at a robust solution

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Jagex simply profits when their servers in some way kill you

tacit quiver
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There's the escape crystals, as a stopgap, not bulletproof though, many things can oneshot you within the time it takes to proc

meager flame
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Like really in a more ideal game

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If you died they would package your stuff up to send to your non hc account while resetting you as an option

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Just so theres no weird "hey pay me extra to keep playing this mode" type of stuff going on

tacit quiver
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That's sounding awfully close to usage credits across all accounts on a jagex account right there, one of those careful what we wish for moments incoming 😄

meager flame
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Tbh thats how most hc games work

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They let you continue as non hc or send your stuff to a non hc and reset you on death

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Only jagex is like hey give me another sub to keep playing even though youre already paying us

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Lmao its actually crazy

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But hey

tacit quiver
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WoW iirc was as many accounts under 1 subscription, paying per account makes more money from multiloggers, and switching gear would need a way to determine which were your other accounts. That kind of thing would be easier with allowing transfer of remaining membership, which would be cool

meager flame
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Most games also dont make you pay per character

true talon
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ill never play a hardcore game mode, all because of lag or potential disconnects. losing something i been mentally focused on for years and invested a lot of time and playing safe on it, would make me quit.

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When you die to a dc your like well shit, i coulda done all this other dangerous shit instead of this playing safe.

meager flame
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Idk i think hc can be good but jagex is just asleep at the wheel a bit

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There is always the loss when you die but it doesn't have to be so absurd it hits your bank account

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And jagex knows when there are outages they dont have to kill all the accounts that they reasonably suspect went down with the servers

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Tldr they can do better

rare grotto
minor whale
warm epoch
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I don't know if you're just wilfully ignoring what they said

fading token
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New content has come out periodically for both skills that might make them a little more interesting to train, such as the Hallowed Sepulchre and GotR, though maxing is expected to remain a significant achievement 🙂

small anvil
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If someone say had a year subscription

fading token
minor whale
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Ngl I think paying a year in advance for an account type that you care about the status of not dying on is a bit short sighted if you are going to be upset when you die

small anvil
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I mean, there's economic incentive for the 1 year package

warm epoch
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Yeah and dying to server failure isn't on the player

small anvil
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And people have been on hcim for years

warm epoch
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So just by that itself existing means any death reason should be valid enough

small anvil
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People who care about the status aren't like expecting to die

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Especially when it's due to things outside their control

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It's a meme but people joke about rip hcim every time a world goes down

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It's not a stretch of the imagination to say that jagex could be better about taking responsibility when it's the fault of instability on their end

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Jagex kinda just has a very clear pattern of staying away from stuff that's too much work

last onyx
small anvil
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Again, 35k is way too freaking high

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Basically the same as foot pedal brimhaven

kind sail
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brimhaven agility is actually more lol

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it caps out at 40k

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(footpedal)

sacred skiff
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If it were 18k/hr it would be approx the same ratio to Sepulchre as shooting stars are to 3t4g.

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But even that seems high lol

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Although maybe not if you can get 40k with pedal brimhaven

tiny epoch
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lower reqs for sepulcher would be good

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and/or allowing boosting to access deeper floors

hard axle
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Please. Just undo the fucking nerf.

ember token
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i think sepulche reqs are fine, the issue is more there not being a lower level sepulchre style course

hard axle
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It’s so dumb that the high floors got nerfed and no-looting got double nerfed

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add a floor 6 at 95-97 agilityfuck it

floral python
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give us sepulchre 2

ember token
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also yeah there should be something in the late 90s for the agility

tiny epoch
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why

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is there any other skill thats getting relevant skilling methods in the late 90s

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is 92 not bad enough already 😩

bronze kernel
ember token
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i mean i think every skill should have something in the 95-98 range

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or most skills, rather

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not saying we need lvl 98 prayers or weapons or armor or w/e lol

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but I think high level unlocks to introduce something new when it's 1 million xp between levels is good

bronze kernel
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Stam Pot Bridge

kind sail
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as someone who's maxed, I think having 100k max eff as your highest xp/h is awful

tiny epoch
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i think agility skilling is torture & would prefer new better methods not to be gatekept behind a massive grind

ember token
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i wasnt saying there shouldn't be new lower level methods

ember token
tiny epoch
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i mean there are already

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its called the lower floors of sepulcher

ember token
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the lower floors are dogshit

tiny epoch
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just like the rest of agility skilling methods theyre horrificly bad

ember token
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sorry I guess I have to be extremely specific here

ember token
tiny epoch
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sepulcher at 92 is a high level unlock already

bronze kernel
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Delve Agility Course, when?

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Basically, you won't get the XP until you get to the exit

ember token
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again like I said, there's no more new unlocks halfway through the skill

bronze kernel
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Combine HS with Delve mechanics

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And make it unsafe

ember token
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once you get halfway through, there's nothing else and you simply do the same methods for the 2nd half of the skill

chrome lantern
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It is an unsafe death already

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xd

bronze kernel
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Insta death on messing up an obstacle

ember token
tiny epoch
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i think theres a reason jagex dont make skilling unlocks with requirements in the late 90s

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like what % of accounts have agi between 95-98

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if u made it that far

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ur probably pushing thru to max

ember token
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i know they gotta cater everything towards the noobs, like you cant have high quest requirements either

tiny epoch
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well like

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imagine sepulcher deepest floor has 35 agi req

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thats not catering to noobs

ember token
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letting people get 100k agility xp an hour at 35 would be pretty hard catering

ember token
tiny epoch
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new players cant just rock up & do floor 5 tho

ember token
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anyways I think it's pretty reasonable to want new, interesting agility courses at all levels

tiny epoch
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most skilling is uninteresting

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agility stands out because the rates are doggy

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running gold at blast furnace is brain numbing as well but its at least fast

ember token
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rates being bad only matters when the method of training the skill itself is also bad, and running rooftops is bad

tiny epoch
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most skilling methods are bad GlorpCute

last onyx
ember token
last onyx
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Tears of Guthix all the way, could do some chambers maybe for Dark Relics

hard axle
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1b means nothing when it could be combat xp. str, magic, ranged, hp are 800m and every content after tob has had a ridiculous xp multiplier eggfall

vocal pine
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Bruh I've been waiting for poll 85 changes, turns out 84 hadn't even gone live yet until 5 days ago

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Think its gonna take a while

ember token
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most of poll 84 is out

austere mulch
turbid crow
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Which j mod actually looks or where you can put a suggestion on here . They should let you for the new slayer points update you should be able to hand in any kind of head of slayer boss for 15 points not even a lot just no point of having tons or they should be worth more points

tacit wharf
turbid crow
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Thanks will do .

jovial sentinel
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Rc can be low active, but you still have to occasionally do a lot

austere mulch
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Granted, VM is great. Way better than mlm

jovial sentinel
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Im not talking about mlm

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Stars are like 20minute afk

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Its a bad rate, but its kindof free if thats all you'd be able to do anyways

tiny epoch
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xp/click is off the charts

small anvil
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Stars are max 10 min afk lol, and timing dependent

lost tulip
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anyone have speculation when we expect summer sweepup pt2?

tacit wharf
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earliest wed, latest 2 wed from now, probably next wed

chrome lantern
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Just got treads on my iron, I find it weird that there's zero information in-game on how you would actually combine the boots into the treads, it just kinda assumes you know to use Cerb boots on them.

true talon
chrome lantern
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There's so many items that do things like this tbh it could do with at least like some sort of thing, maybe in the examine text, "Could be combined with powerful boots" or something

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Other items I can think of off the top of my head would include the Hydra tail and claw

narrow folio
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If someone never read the wiki or guide, they would go the whole game not combining them lmao

sacred oracle
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flesh it out a bit and stick it there

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jmods look through it sometimes and maybe one of them will like it

stuck mauve
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what if you aren't serious, do you get your access restricted from that channel? seen someone have that role pausebusiness

fading token
rustic ocean
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Okay team what's this week's game update going to be. Any guesses.

vivid ruin
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They delete ironmen mode

civic patrol
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haven't commented here before so I hope it's the right place, but has anyone suggested moon transmogs for the amoxliatl pet yet? would love to see that added since the designs are cool

obsidian venture
civic patrol
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thx

sacred skiff
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My friend said he heard that the Moki CA's are 9/10? Could be totally false. But idk hopefully the slayer update

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Or the one where pets are free to reclaim, cuz I've got 2 that I refuse to reclaim when it's about to be free lol

shadow wave
sacred skiff
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Ah ofc I should have checked The Facebook facepalm

ember token
shell smelt
chrome lantern
mild saddle
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would probably be more like amethyst 20k or so

chrome lantern
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20k still too high imo

ember token
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20k xp an hour but it costs a mil an hour to use, and only 10k an hour if you use it for free

icy relic
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honestly tired of everything needing to have an AFK option

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it doesn't

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can't even get people to do scurrius because they'd rather just afk crab

patent palm
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When are we expecting sailing to be in game?

tacit wharf
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fall, probably sometime after nov but before new years

patent palm
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tyty

tacit wharf
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since they havent mentioned it being pushed back from a autumn launch and since rs3 leagues is till nov

obsidian venture
icy relic
#

saying this as someone who came from RS3, everyone loves the AFK options but then they're left wondering where their gameplay went because people will always pick the path of least resistance

gaunt wagon
#

It is inevitable when the alternative is to treat the game like a second job to keep progressing meaningfully past earlygame

ember token
#

for agility there's already roughly 10k xp an hour afk options, whether its poh agility dungeon or footpedalling an agility obstacle that gives xp, so at this point, i don't think there's much harm in a 10k xp an hour afk method that requires a bit less effort

gaunt wagon
#

You either have to reduce the grind which will likely harm player retention or give the people with time restraints options to still progress and engage with the game even if they can't do 6 hours of keyboard time a day

#

I love crab because I can grab a level or two in my combats while I'm at work, and then I don't feel any obligation to grind with my hour or so in the evenings that I can just play. So I go quest or whatever

ionic tartan
#

Also what level makes a difference too. Like redwoods are super afk but level at 90. At which point you've done a lot of "active" woodcutting to get to 90 ("woodcutting gameplay"), and the afk alternative makes the grind to 99 a bit easier for some.

hard axle
hard axle
#

Like, if we compare non-tick manipulated rates, redwoods alone are close to 50-60% of max rates, and that’s assuming you drop the redwood logs.

icy relic
#

Dunghole was like 10x worse than training normally yet lo and behold

#

for me the problem is not even specifically having certain afk methods in some skills

hard axle
#

It doesn’t matter how much you nerf it relative to active rates

icy relic
#

agi is the weirdest meme to me because agi is easier in OSRS already due to rooftops and sepulchre

hard axle
#

some things are just too broken

icy relic
#

it has a smoother progression curve and rewards you with marks of grace

#

sepulchre is such good content too

hard axle
icy relic
#

yet still people cry about agi nonstop

#

why though

tacit wharf
#

anyone else feel like, with crab now, that they should disable splashing all together

icy relic
#

why even have that option

hard axle
#

Afk squirrel shenanigans

#

But no, you’re right

#

It’s not necessary by any mean a

icy relic
#

if the xp is so nerfed so hard you'd have to have really specific irl circumstances to do it why encourage that kind of gameplay to begin with

ember token
#

what they should remove or rework now is nightmare zone since there's so many other alternatives at this point

icy relic
#

NMZ needs to go

tacit wharf
#

honestly could just axe nmz

icy relic
#

Put in the resources and bring back Dominion Tower

tacit wharf
#

and slashing just encourages 6hr splashing, which technically shouldnt happen normally

idle rapids
ember token
#

redirection scrolls can easily be moved to somewhere else (mahogany homes perhaps?), imbues as a system should just be removed, make the imbued versions the default (which also forces them to revisit pvp arena rewards and maybe soul wars rewards as well)

idle rapids
#

the method where you used runelite force active notifications for 6 hour got patched anyways

#

Idk about spinning the cam but they prob got that too

icy relic
#

there's not enough to buy there

#

and thematically makes sense too

#

NMZ is a complete eyesore, it's like private server slop

idle rapids
#

Well tbf it was the first piece of content they added

#

They didnt have any tools back then

#

and these days its irrelevant

tacit wharf
#

was a means to help people lvl when the game was introduced

#

which just isnt needed anymore since the game got filled out

idle rapids
#

got replaced by scurrius then crab

tacit wharf
#

nagua's scurrius crab crab boss ect

#

i do like redirect scrolls coming from mh too

#

got other area's to imbue things

idle rapids
#

monster hunter?

tacit wharf
#

mahog homes

narrow folio
#

How does it hurt you if there's better options? Nmz is fine as is and not hurting anything.

tacit wharf
#

more of an outdated, not needed redundant system

ember token
#

imbues as a system just dont need to exist, all it does is "hurt" new players

narrow folio
#

It's another levelling option

icy relic
#

imbues were bad in rs2 and they're bad here

#

but beyond that

narrow folio
#

Should we remove sand crabs because gemstone exists?

icy relic
#

NMZ does not meet the standard of OSRS content and should be reworked into what it was in the past

narrow folio
#

Lots of old content is like that

icy relic
#

a fully-fledged piece of content with its own assets and unique rewards where you could push your limits fighting old quest bosses

narrow folio
#

Not opposed to adding a new thing like that but it doesn't also mean nmz needs to get deleted.

ember token
#

other old content gets a pass for being actual old school, pre-07 content

tacit wharf
narrow folio
#

It's not actually harmful to the game. It's not op and just provides another option

icy relic
#

it is harmful to the game

narrow folio
#

Also completely optional

icy relic
#

jagex has acknowledged it is harmful to the game

narrow folio
#

How

icy relic
#

it is out of place and does not meet modern standards

minor whale
#

I don't think it's any more harmful than any other afk training method, but it is outdated and redundant now.

icy relic
#

it is a collection of reused assets sitting outside yanille

#

with no discernable purpose

#

looking extremely gaudy

ember token
narrow folio
#

If it meets the same afk/combat training niche then sure?

minor whale
#

I dunno I think there's a difference between "doesn't look good" and harmful

narrow folio
#

But this is just taking away another option from players

minor whale
#

NMZ doesn't look good but it's no more harmful to the game than gem crab

narrow folio
#

If it doesn't look good, you can rework the graphics and keep it the same

icy relic
#

that literally is harmful, it's a problem frequently brought up in RS3 as well

#

old areas that aren't reworked look jarring to new players

#

it breaks immersion and worsens players' experience

minor whale
#

It's also entirely optional and the "reused assets" part is within the dream that you don't have to enter

#

I don't think a portal by a town that's been there a decade is harmful lol

tacit wharf
#

it was a stop gap that has since fulfilled its purpose and as such isnt needed anymore, and ill just leave it at that

icy relic
#

I'm too old for this

#

people defending NMZ over bringing back dominion tower

narrow folio
#

You can have both

ember token
#

having both is like saying they should rework fishing trawler to be good but leave the old fishing trawler in the game

idle rapids
#

they did rework it

icy relic
#

did they keep the old one

narrow folio
#

It was basically a buff

icy relic
#

gotta keep a separate lander

sacred oracle
#

i've never understood why people, including the jmods, hate nmz so much

icy relic
#

for the OG trawler

sacred oracle
#

i've never seen them explain what's so wrong with nmz

ember token
#

when was trawler reworked? i know it's had tons of fixes

sacred oracle
#

jagex clearly doesn't like it, but i don't know why

narrow folio
#

It's been there so long it might as well be legacy content at this point

sacred oracle
#

other than "looks gaudy," which is not a compelling argument to me in a game that's full of 20-year-old hokey-looking assets

icy relic
#

because creatives have standards for themselves

minor whale
#

There's a ton of equally hokey shit in the game that's equally redundant or useless, some of it added literally after JMods said they don't like NMZ lmao

narrow folio
#

Nmz has a variety of different levels of engagement for more xp or whatnot meanwhile crab is just attack it

icy relic
#

it also has a lot of buggy bosses that don't attack with the styles they used during the quest

minor whale
#

I really just don't give a shit about NMZ that much
It's a thing that's just part of the charm of the game, like a bunch of other goofy shit

sacred oracle
#

if it's actually harmful in some way, i don't mind getting rid of it, but i don't know that it's actually harmful

#

or at least no one's explained how it's harmful in a way i understand yet

minor whale
#

Getting rid of it because "when you enter the dream it's ugly" isn't any more valid to me than saying we should get rid of Corp because it's a random boss in the middle of the Wildy with 0 lore or references to in the whole game

#

It just is and that's fine

icy relic
#

we should btw

#

either add summer's end or rework corp

sacred oracle
#

i wouldn't mind a corp rework

#

i have no idea what a summer's end is, if that's a content

icy relic
#

it's the lore

tacit wharf
icy relic
#

2 quests that went along with corp's release

ember token
#

you can get rid of NMZ and the only thing that changes is there's no way to get redirect scrolls, but you can't get rid of Corp at this point (and I think it should get quest(s) and a rework/solo version)

icy relic
#

but for the summoning skill which they don't have

ember token
#

spirit of summer and summer's end could just be combined into 1 quest, and it could unlock phosani's corp

sacred oracle
#

redirect scrolls could just be moved elsewhere pretty easily

#

also i dislike the redirect scroll system anyway

icy relic
#

redirects should just be a perma unlock imo

#

a book you read that allows you to right click house tabs

tough nacelle
#

Double corp drop rate if you have max cape >=)

sacred oracle
#

i have no idea what this summer stuff is, i assume it's rs3

icy relic
#

rs2

tough nacelle
#

More janky mechanics that make no sense

sacred oracle
#

i don't know anything about rs3 and have no particular desire to put any of it in the game

ember token
#

we literally just said what the summer stuff is

#

Spirit of Summer and Summer's End are quests from 2008, with Summer's End unlocking the Corporeal Beast

icy relic
#

There was a large amount of content between 07 and EoC, a lot of which was really good

ember token
#

the Corporeal Beast was taken from "rs3" and added into osrs without the associated quests/lore behind it

icy relic
#

we have a lot of content in OSRS that tried to grab some of that piecemeal but largely ended up being incomplete additions

#

but basically everything that was remotely controversial even prior to EoC existing is treated with a really weird stigma here

#

a lot of unlocks were nerfed and then sold back to players

ember token
# sacred oracle i've never seen them explain what's so wrong with nmz

as a relatively new player, I don't have nostalgia for NMZ like it sounds like some of you do

  • Looks like and plays like private server content
  • Rewards are basically random, various runes and supplies coming from afking basic quest bosses, as well as redirect scrolls and imbues
    • Imbues are a bad system that benefit no one and only hurt new players by making them do random nonsense to upgrade their gear to its proper strength
    • Redirect scrolls can be moved to Mahogany Homes and/or changed to be something that requires Magic or uses the poh lectern
  • The bosses themselves are buggy, with inconsistent mechanics from the quest versions that also varies weirdly whether or not you're in hard mode (ex: hard mode NMZ bosses often LOSE mechanics)
  • Numerous combat training methods have been added over the 12 years since NMZ was added, which means the benefit of combat training in the NMZ no longer is good enough to cover up all its flaws, and players don't lose anything with its removal
  • The amount of work likely required to change NMZ and make it good would be better spent removing it and opening the door for a proper "refight quest bosses" activity like the Dominion Tower
tacit wharf
#

spaghetti code, also causes weird interactions opening avenues of bugs and abuse

ember token
#

yeah, the maintenance cost of keeping it functional

narrow folio
#

I've never seen an actual content get deleted and I'd rather it stay as another way to afk train combat. A graphic/lore overhaul would be fine but atm it's not even broken.

#

And I would need to see proof that it even needs a lot of maintenance every update..

zinc fulcrum
#

Is the game feeling very heavy/laggy for anyone else today?

bronze kernel
round lintel
#

Do you guys think we ever get a revisit to mixology points?

mild saddle
#

idk i don't see what's to like

#

it's just free mobile xp on a 20min afk

#

delete NMZ and double scurrius xp as compensation

tacit wharf
#

scurrius doesnt need any more xp/kill

hard axle
#

if they want it thematic, move it to post dream mentor

narrow folio
#

Just let people train how they prefer. No sense in removing one that has been here so long and not causing any issues kekw

frail bough
#

I feel like having people train in an instance sort of takes away from the game, regardless of afk, if there are alternative options provided

narrow folio
#

There are plenty of instances in pvm. Does it really matter?

frail bough
#

It might just not be the case any more but the team said several years ago they wanted to get rid of it

#

If you mean pvm as in not afk training, then I'm not quite sure how that's relatable

#

People aren't going to zulrah for the purpose of afk training

narrow folio
#

Well it's just another option people have to afk combat train. In what way does an instance take away from the game?

frail bough
#

When i play, i like to see people. Its an mmo after all

narrow folio
#

It's not good content to hop around to find an empty spot and deal with crashers either. Gemstone crab solved this by making it shared.

frail bough
#

Yes which is why i said what i said

narrow folio
#

If nmz was the dominating option, I can see your point but it isn't

shadow wave
#

I'd like NMZ if it was like a series of themed challenges with more interesting rewards

narrow folio
#

That would be an entirely different thing

frail bough
#

Id be curious on the stats,id be willing to bet it is the dominanting option

narrow folio
#

Well the new crab and naguas as well as og crabs probably share a lot of it

shadow wave
#

True, but given we now have other better designed options for AFK Combat exp, we could instead explore the "fighting previous bosses" angle

ember token
#

ultimately that's suppose to be the point of NMZ, refighting quest bosses

narrow folio
#

I see it as more xp (no xp penalty like crab) for a little more effort

patent ibex
narrow folio
#

Just why would you want to take away an option from players

ember token
narrow folio
#

Nmz could still be expanded to add a tower mode

ember token
#

plinx if jagex removed nmz

narrow folio
#

Why remove rumble?

patent ibex
#

Increasing quality standards mostly. Same as any re-work or change.

ember token
#

plinx is fine with it being shit

frail bough
#

Do we really think people are doing nmz because it's fun

narrow folio
#

There doesn't need to be a removal from its current purpose either

frail bough
#

Like honestly

narrow folio
#

Do you think afking the crab is fun either? It's just afk training

frail bough
#

That's not a reason to not rework or remove something

#

If it was fun, i could understand not modifying or removing it

narrow folio
#

Dominion tower and current nmz aren't mutually exclusive

frail bough
#

But its purpose had been served

#

Or rather, the purpose people used it for

patent ibex
#

It's a relic of a time when the future of OSRS was incredibly uncertain, development tools were limited. And I just don't think it hits the mark of where the base-line quality level of the game should be at these days.

And it's certainly not the only piece of content that could use a re-work either, nor do I think it should be the absolute priority either.

narrow folio
ember token
#

a new modern remade fishing trawler and the version of fishing trawler from 22 years ago also technically wouldn't be mutually exclusive

#

but they wouldnt remake fishing trawler and then keep the original version

narrow folio
#

Trawler still has the plugging holes option like before. It just added the kraken.

#

Tower could just be another mode like rumble

#

You have the afk training part and the actual boss challenge mode too

ember token
#

nah i mean like a theoretical complete rework of fishing trawler

#

if they did that, it would replace current fishing trawler

#

they wouldnt have fishing trawler and fishing trawler 2 just like they wouldnt have nightmare zone and nightmare zone 2

narrow folio
#

It would still be fishing xp/gathering, but what you're doing is removing the afk combat xp which is an entirely different thing

restive siren
#

I dont really have strong feelings about this but imo absolutely nobody would miss nmz, its always been a very out of place piece of content, badly designed, not fun or engaging, the entire area and concept of it feel extremely non osrs to me

#

More like a bad 2010 mobile auto battler

ember token
narrow folio
#

It's an option you take away for those who don't want to crab, or fight for spots at naguas

restive siren
#

If it stays it stays but if they ever decide to remove or completely rework it, it wouldnt be missed

narrow folio
#

Rework it how you want but the basis of afk combat xp should still remain a part of it

restive siren
#

Yeah not every option deserves to exist just because its more options

#

Thats a bad argument for game design

frail bough
#

I refuse to believe anyone would care if it removed afk combat option since better alternatives already exist

obsidian venture
#

Moreso that it was used purely for afk training + imbues, both of which have been made better to get via other methods

#

Plus retaining that same afk sim

#

So in a way, it’s just outdated

ember token
#

remember that the intent was never for it to even be afk combat training in the first place, they only let you customize rumble 3 years after nmz was added

obsidian venture
#

Wouldn’t mind it being reworked or removed. If it was removed, it wouldn’t have an impact on what’s currently out there

#

Sometimes it’s ok to let go of the past if it’s served its purpose

narrow folio
#

I disagree and enjoyed nmz for what it was

obsidian venture
#

That’s fine

ember token
#

yeah but there would be nothing else to afk combat on if they removed it

narrow folio
#

I think gem crab is actually just too op for afk as it is

frail bough
#

What

ember token
#

gem crab is just regular crabs but without having to fight over spots

narrow folio
#

The afkness is the main issue

obsidian venture
#

You cannot say that and want nmz staying in the same sentence

#

Please

ember token
#

same amount of time as regular crabs though?

#

10 minutes to lose aggro, 10 minutes for gem crab to move spots

narrow folio
#

Nmz is less afk too so whats the problem? If you want ovls

analog crow
obsidian venture
#

Gem boss crab resolved alot of toxicity from folks fighting over spots

narrow folio
#

You can rework how it functions or add a gimmick to it, but an instanced way to afk combat train is what nmz should feature

mild saddle
#

so don't use overloads

ember token
#

so you're saying the point of NMZ should be afk combat training, and not refighting quest bosses?

narrow folio
#

Also doesn't have an xp penalty

narrow folio
mild saddle
#

xp penalty is irrlevant just look at xp rates

narrow folio
#

Also safer to 1 hp dharok than at crab

ember token
#

well if you're afk combat training then you're not really refighting quest bosses as you're not engaging with the combat at all

mild saddle
#

full 10min afk gem crab is 100k xp/hr for me

narrow folio
#

And nmz?

#

Same gear or prayers

mild saddle
#

10min afk? idk haven't quested at all on the alt really

#

probably around that

#

NMZ has no reason to exist

narrow folio
#

Super ranging potions

frail bough
#

So sameish xp, more afk time, isnt used for its purpose, more safe, and crab is somehow more op

mild saddle
#

crab is just a much better executed concept of the afk melee idea

restive siren
#

Id like a poll of how many of the playerbase do actually like nmz or prefer it over crabs or naguas

#

Cant imagine it being more than like 5%

chrome lantern
#

Imbues and nmz are both archaic systems

mild saddle
#

don't think anyone would mind if imbues were just... gone tbh

#

if all rings just had the stats

#

and slayer helm

restive siren
#

Imbuing as a concept is fine imo

mild saddle
#

only one that could use a slight look is salve

restive siren
#

Just give it actually cool content

chrome lantern
#

I don’t even think imbuing is really fine as a system tbh it doesn’t really serve a meaningful purpose

#

See also how dt2 rings don’t need an imbue

mild saddle
#

go do trash content for an hour to unlock b-ring

#

idk

chrome lantern
#

Or lightbearer

restive siren
#

Maybe you could do imbues as early boss rewards like Titans or moons or have them tied to easy/med CAs to get people into pvm

mild saddle
#

restricting them more isn't going to be popular

restive siren
#

But i dont think the concept is

chrome lantern
#

It’s just an unnecessary chore to use something you already had to put in time/money to get

#

I don’t really think the quiver should need charge/bless either

mild saddle
#

i disagree with that one

restive siren
#

There are like 500 other tedious things you have to do in this game to get small ass gear upgrades. If the content you get it from is fun, it doesnt matter

mild saddle
#

chargeables usually work

#

they just slowly messed it up at colo over tim

chrome lantern
#

I guess more broadly, quiver is too conditional

mild saddle
#

splinters are too common at bottable levels and then splinters keep getting added to drop tables like Doom

#

for a long time splinters made colo good to do

#

starting to lose that

chrome lantern
#

Extra ammo slot, but not all ammo items, and extra stats, but only if charged, and not on all weapons

#

It doesn’t need to be that complex

mild saddle
#

oh quiver is hacky sure, splinters work thoguh imo

#

or did / should've

#

wave 1 should've never been a thing, that's a botch

chrome lantern
#

Maybe to specify more specifically, for what quiver is and how it’s supposed to run parallel to infernal cape

#

Quiver should just be raw stats and no charges or conditional

#

Specifically quiver

#

Charged items can still work

#

But I don’t think quiver should be one

mild saddle
#

i do think it's fine and expect that the mage cape to use charges too for some perk

#

like holding a rune or something

#

whenever we get that

frail bough
#

That or make inferno extra stats by perma charging with 10m tokkul

chrome lantern
#

It would be like infernal cape at 6 str unless you charge it with 10 tokkul per charge

mild saddle
#

i don't necessarily think that's crazy

#

you can't change it now ofc

#

but it'd be a reason to do the content more and that's cool

chrome lantern
#

And even if you charge it the +2 doesn’t work with one-handed weapons

mild saddle
#

blame BP for all of that

chrome lantern
#

In this hypothetical

#

You know what’s crazy about bp though

mild saddle
#

i do think quiver should've been more ubiquitous

chrome lantern
#

We have this thing called light ranged defense

mild saddle
#

we do now

#

i think quiver would've been a good opportunity to discuss making bowfa use arrows

#

but we were all over the place with colo

chrome lantern
#

Project rebalance and colo released at practically the same time

#

They had plenty of space to work with it

minor whale
#

I dunno
They kinda said fuck it to Quiver by making BP not get the extra damage, then giving treads +3 ranged strength to every ranged item lol

#

Not great balancing

vestal cosmos
chrome lantern
vestal cosmos
#

RS3 has a high-level chargebow called the Seren Godbow which normally doesn't use arrows, but if you equip arrows that have a special effect it will consume the arrows to add the special effect to the SGB's attacks without gaining the Ranged Strength of the equipped arrows. Whether or not we have special arrows in OSRS, the Bowfa shouldn't gain Ranged Strength from nor require equipping arrows.

narrow folio
frail bough
#

🤦‍♂️

narrow folio
#

Scales with your quests completed, surge boost for spamming specs

#

Crab also has an xp penalty so that might mostly balance it out but nmz still has uses

#

So nmz has a place still, maybe melee is comparable, but cheap range training exists

#

And if jagex does something about nmz lore and visuals

#

And change monsters away from quest bosses into other custom ones? Sure

#

And certain slayer tasks can be done in nmz. Is it efficient? No but it's something that would be taken away.

vestal cosmos
#

I'm curious what the XP rates could be if you brought an Emberlight and set all the Demon bosses to spawn (The Grand Tree Black Demon, Jungle Demon, the Legends' Quest demon Nezikchened, the Demon Slayer/Shadow of the Storm demons)

narrow folio
#

Need a tester hero 🙏

austere mulch
#

Mistakes are fine and expected, but I think big misses like that that are left for so long is just negligence

#

Bc it was so obviously a problem from day 1

ember token
hard axle
#

The only real thin NMZ has going for it is the 20 minute afk

#

Otherwise the active rates very comparable with other content

lament peak
#

Normally I wouldn't care about bots but I've seen bot content from like 10 different creators now and it seems pretty bad. It makes me wonder if Mod North or upper leadership is deliberately hindering the bans/detection in some way to drive profits up. Bond prices have gone down too ancestralhmm

hard axle
#

Bond prices going down normally means there's less bots, since less of them are being consumed erm

There also hasn't been free Prime membership on OSRS/RS3 in a while now, so really wondering how the bots are sustaining themselves in the first place - They can't take advantage of localized prices without a card in those regions iirc Think

idle rapids
narrow folio
idle rapids
#

I've seen a lot of people saying they got their acc back just to have a huge balance due

#

Which is either due to chargebacks or fraud

cedar shoal
#

double boulder directly before stomp feels impossible to deal with

vivid ruin
#

Thats where i went for my voider

narrow folio
#

Maybe but nmz has super ranging which is big

vivid ruin
#

True

hard axle
meager flame
#

the plan was probably for the items to drop from more content

#

and that eventually it wouldn't really matter if wave 1 gives them to you

#

like pretty much every time they update varlamore they come from more sources

true talon
#

quiver is indeed to complex.
Flat stats when fully charged and its perfectly fine.

#

they need to do more with splinters, seeing varl part 3 didnt add any new methods and p2 didnt either, its basically dead content now.

narrow folio
#

Already made a suggestion thread about the buff being universal. I hope they take it into consideration.

meager flame
#

i kinda think they need to just stop making weird plays because the flavor of the month is that they're afraid of power creep

#

thats basically the reason they make weird items that eventually after years get changed

#

i think they're also just too invested in feedback when it comes to real hard numbers

#

it honestly seems like if their community is scared of something so are they even if you can show with math that its actually not a huge difference and likely wont change much if anything

#

you see it happen constantly when they discuss mage items even though the reality is the shadow isn't going to jump through the wall like the koolaid man if you give it 1% more magic damage

#

it creates a strange process where for example

#

they might identify that the blowpipe will scale to eventually be very powerful so before they get to that point they start making strange rules or exceptions with new items like the quiver

#

when in reality they should've just made the quiver universal for people using the range style while wearing it as far as its bonuses go

#

and change the blowpipe at the same time that they add an item that would've pushed it over the top

#

sometime in the future

#

because what they're doing now is creating items to later change again and they'll still have to address the bp anyways years from now

#

basically making extra work

narrow folio
#

There's a habit of hearing something a content creator says then taking that as fact because it sounds reasonable enough, then never taking a look at the actual numbers to verify

hard axle
hard axle
#

“Post nerf BP darts is going to worse than pre nerf BP bronze darts”

hard axle
#

Jagex doesn’t often listen to the people who actually have an inkling of what’s balanced or not because it gets drowned out by people commenting based on vibes and what their favorite streamer says

round lintel
#

horn in theory sounded pretty cool but in practice is a useless drop

#

specially for ironmen

hard axle
round lintel
#

there have been new methods for corp but im an old type player so i was doing the dwh arc spec bgs

#

wish i could use horn for at least the hammer

nocturne solstice
#

Personally id use it more if it worked solo and the horn buff was just on a timer that wasnt affected by transitions.

round lintel
#

but you know what? you cant

nocturne solstice
#

like if you can pre-horn before entering a boss room that would be nice

round lintel
#

pingu did you just become mod?

nocturne solstice
#

totally

round lintel
#

I swear you werent last week

nocturne solstice
#

Yeah that would be crazy

tiny epoch
#

if it did work with scy it would be a hard to use but extremely broken spec weapon in places like toa & nex

#

from the restrictions they put on it its pretty clear they just want it to be used for landing specs which is really 1 dimensional & pretty niche

nocturne solstice
#

If they wanted that then they should have just made it say "Guaranteed hit for next spec" so I wouldnt goof up accidentally and waste it on a normal hit feelsroqman

round lintel
#

I think horn needs a revisit

tiny epoch
#

honestly i wouldnt be opposed to that

#

the guaranteed fang or rapier hit or whatever is so marginal

meager flame
#

they just wanted people to think it was worth going out to get without actually adding an item to the game

#

basically to fill space

tiny epoch
#

i think its a better design if its easier to use & not waste

round lintel
#

at least to use it on yourself but the spec costs twice

meager flame
#

its just slop item design

round lintel
#

like 50% to use it on yourself

tiny epoch
#

where would u use that

#

vs just hammering twice

meager flame
#

thats the thing

round lintel
#

toa at kephri

tiny epoch
#

use dps specs on that guy

narrow folio
#

kinda good at toa in duos

#

or something

tiny epoch
#

yeah it is good in team toa

#

& at mutta

#

& nowhere else in the game or what

round lintel
#

zebak

nocturne solstice
#

I tried it a bit at toa but hasnt been that useful and was a pain to use

tiny epoch
#

u would not horn hammer zebak in solo

nocturne solstice
#

probably just poor co-ordination but the inability to pre-horn before entering is annoying

tiny epoch
#

just bgs him

round lintel
tiny epoch
#

ok u miss & spec again

round lintel
#

both

tiny epoch
#

or u hit & do zcb spec

round lintel
#

no zcb 🙁

#

iron no luck

tiny epoch
#

then vw sp3c

#

or burnint claw spec

#

if u got no burning claw go get that item i fear

austere mulch
#

At a baseline, horn should work with claws as polled and literally communicated until a few days after release

#

But also, it needs a little more love

round lintel
#

game has a lot of niche items and metas

nocturne solstice
#

surely itll get buffed...

#

and I should buy a stack of em for the merch...

tiny epoch
#

what buff would u like to see

round lintel
#

why are you against of using horn on your self? @tiny epoch

austere mulch
#

Working with other combat styles, while only giving the guaranteed hit to melee combat vs NPCs

round lintel
#

Like Ralos needs a revisit too

nocturne solstice
#

I would want

  • Let you pre-horn before entering boss rooms
  • Let you buff yourself
  • What TM said and have it work with multihit weapons properly
austere mulch
#

Eg. Range/mage just get accuracy increase

meager flame
#

i mean they know how good it isn't its relatively simple

tiny epoch
#

thats a nerf i think

#

makes it harder to use vs zebak in teams Glerm

meager flame
#

they just hand waved everyone with "players are really clever" acting like someone would produce some unintended meta reshaping use for it

austere mulch
nocturne solstice
#

Well after the chicken Yama I understand that sentiment

tiny epoch
#

definitely it should not work with scy

#

claws is probably fine

#

maybe idk

meager flame
#

i dont think you can design a game like that

#

like

#

lol

tiny epoch
#

does it displace zcb in tob if it works on claws

#

not sure the mathematics on that

austere mulch
#

Makes it so frustrating to use in places like tob, even though you literally don’t use it in tob anyways because it doesn’t work with claws, but if you wanted to, it’s rly annoying

meager flame
#

let me make this terrible item and just assume somehow someway someone eventually maybe might figure out its good for something

#

thats insane work

austere mulch
#

As an example, the time from entry tick to first attackable melee tick on sote is 1t too long for the timer

nocturne solstice
#

That does happen tho

#

like bone dagger

tiny epoch
#

it is good for some thing, its just extreme niche

meager flame
#

yeah it happens but you cant design praying that someone does that

austere mulch
#

So if you wanted to horn p1 sote, which again it’s not worth doing anyways, you’d have to bow -> run + horn -> switch weps again and spec

meager flame
#

its actually really easy to see that unless your chances of landing a spec are honestly fairly horrible

tiny epoch
#

yea thats what u do in zebak

meager flame
#

its almost always better to just have everyone natty spec with hammer instead of using a horn

tiny epoch
#

its not that important to get ur full melee switch on for ur hammer hit at least

meager flame
#

and then they kick the dps benefits out from under it by excluding claws because that might actually be good

tiny epoch
#

but ultimately its not worth doing anyway right

meager flame
#

and you get an item that will usually just suck

austere mulch
#

Yeah exactly

tiny epoch
#

like ralos is good at maiden & megascale cox

#

horn is good at team toa & mutta

austere mulch
#

Dmg delta between claws working as polled is 9.1 per spec, dmg delta with scythe (only first hitsplat) is 8.2

On p2 verzik

#

But somehow, 9.1 is way too strong

tiny epoch
#

really?

#

as in

austere mulch
#

Ofc it’d also potentially get some niche use at toa / nex, but is that rly an issue since it requires coordination

tiny epoch
#

claws with horn vs no horn if t worked all hitsplats

#

& scy with horn vs no horn as currently implemented

austere mulch
#

Yeah, avg expected dmg

#

With it only working with second accuracy attempt of claws, the delta is 6.2 or so

tiny epoch
#

okay if its only 9 damage then who cares anyway

#

thats complete useless or what

round lintel
#

Do you guys agree with the colosseum money making hit it took now?

austere mulch
#

It’s never worth using with dclaws, yeah

round lintel
#

is like ok money

#

but not as good as it was

tiny epoch
#

even if it worked as polled

austere mulch
#

Where if it worked with first hitsplat, you’d get very niche use of it

tiny epoch
#

it still useless or

meager flame
#

tbh

austere mulch
#

Nah, the 9 dmg is substantial on p2 verzik

#

In speedruns

meager flame
#

i kinda think colo and other similar money makers are probably all too insane

austere mulch
#

Bc the condition for a good run is you do enough damage in burst

meager flame
#

jagex is definitely slipping into inflation over time

tiny epoch
#

surely theres better uses for the spec or

meager flame
#

i can see why but like

#

max gear probably looks like the most insane climb ever to someone new

austere mulch
#

Nah, horn claw as polled was undoubtedly the meta, but it’d be really tough to pull off

#

Bc regen time varies by player and by p1

#

So you can’t just do it freely

meager flame
#

i dunno what they can really do about inflation though

#

like they just designed a crazy end game boss for players but somehow also made it bot heaven

austere mulch
#

But again, really small specific niche that requires a ton of coordination - which is what the horn is designed for? Seemingly

meager flame
#

sort of unbelievable in a way

austere mulch
meager flame
#

id be curious to see how and where they generate gold

#

although im pretty sure they dont wanna talk about it because that would mean we discuss their golden child rev caves

round lintel
#

So

Horn needs a revisit
Ralos needs a revisit

meager flame
#

where for some reason we must be able to generate insane raw gp for the least amount of effort possible

austere mulch
#

Rev caves being as they’ve been for so long is hilarious lol

chrome lantern
#

The real guy out here selling all the gold is [[Ordan]]

ornate wolfBOT
meager flame
#

you would've thought though with doom that they would've been comfortable putting like

#

real barriers up so you really had to play the game to even unlock the ability to start the boss

#

but its a scurrius bot for combat exp into a couple quick quests into perma farming

round lintel
#

that was stupid

austere mulch
#

The transfer of wealth philosophy between less experienced and more experienced players via things like splinters they’ve had has been a net negative tbh

#

In principle, it’s fine

#

But ends up biting them every time

meager flame
#

i really think that when they design end game bosses

#

they should have end game requirements

#

like

#

the people you intend to be doing this play the game we don't have to put up the weakest single quest to unlock barrier ever

#

like you obviously shouldn't do that for royal titans but for doom lmao

#

they could've asked for so much more

#

i think theres also another sort of like unfortunate truth about doom but idk if its exactly a problem

#

mostly just unfortunate

#

the hard part about doom for real people is the easiest thing in the world for a bot

austere mulch
#

Strongly agree with you on that btw

edgy vine
#

yama is complete endgame

meager flame
#

like a real person is going to not click fast enough or lose focus a bit with the speed of the encounter and whats happening

#

but a bot can run it back on doom repeatedly and never have those issues

#

which sucks

#

theres not a lot of super deep strategy or variation that would throw a bot

chrome lantern
#

I would put Yama lategame at best idk about endgame, in terms of gear required it's pretty midgame though

meager flame
#

at least not for the purposes of efficiently farming

edgy vine
chrome lantern
#

Oh I see

#

Yeah >.>

austere mulch
#

However….

meager flame
#

yeah instead its open house for bots

#

lmao

round lintel
#

When i didnt know about how launcher worked i made 2 separate launchhers for my accounts. I know you cant join them

#

but I wish i could have the 2 launcher logins open without having to log out from one or the other

meager flame
#

you actually probably can

#

i haven't tried this personally but usually with stuff like this you can actually create multiple profiles on your pc

#

and then basically run a file to open them as that other user

#

and it will have saved info specifically for that user

round lintel
#

I have not found a way yet so idk

meager flame
#

i used to do something similar to play multiple accounts at once with different runelite layouts and so on

#

before they had any cool options for that stuff

mild saddle
#

it's a midgame boss

tacit wharf
#

i wouldnt say that

#

bandos u litterally pray meele, hit, step under, hit, step under, repeat till dead, kill minions

mild saddle
#

that's not how anyone kills bandos tbf

tacit wharf
#

u didnt specify how yr killing bandos

mild saddle
#

being able to tank and spank old bosses at a baseline is a good feature though that people hate

tacit wharf
#

i assumed u meant the simpliest way

#

which is what i stated

mild saddle
#

simplest way is probably crossbow circles

#

but yeah meant ofc bowfa methods

tacit wharf
#

ahhh

#

in which case, i could get 1 kill my first trip to bandos doing door alter, didnt have the same success on my first trip to yama

so in my experience, id still say bandos > yama in terms of difficulty

mild saddle
#

think that's pretty abnormal for bandos

#

most people take a few tries and need to re-kc or use practice worlds when they're up

#

whereas yama you can just off to mage if you mess up P3 melee

#

neither bosses are hard

#

i think bandos has a higher barrier by a decent bit

tacit wharf
#

notice how i said first trip doing the boss for each, with about the same amount of visual learning for each

mild saddle
#

yeah i read it

#

still think yama is easier than bandos to learn

#

worst case they're close

#

solidly midgame boss

tacit wharf
#

i could see that if your duo'ing yama while comparing it to door/allter and the other red x method

nocturne solstice
#

Id say bandos is definitely easier 🤔

mild saddle
#

i really don't think it's close tbh

#

but ah well

#

yama is just super free

narrow folio
#

bandos is easier

tacit wharf
#

i say my pvm skills are slightly above avg for most, and thats just my take on the 2

mild saddle
#

bandos you mess up it's over, really hard to get back in cycle as a noob. and you need to re-kc

yama, you just off and afk mage and by 5kc you'll have mastered donofly

nocturne solstice
#

I dont think thats the best way to determine how hard it is to learn. Like KQ hits hard as heck but I wouldnt say its a hard boss and put it near the end of the pvm ladder or anything.

mild saddle
#

not sure i see the comparison

#

i think it's more effort to learn bandos and generally will take more time

chrome lantern
#

Bandos also isn't designed to be a solo boss so idk

mild saddle
#

whereas yama you'll get it down in 30min

nocturne solstice
#

Your argument is that bandos is hard because if you "mess up it's over" meaning he just hits hard. Learning the cycle and stuff isn't hard.

chrome lantern
#

Plenty of people still group it even on mains or gim

mild saddle
#

i mean the cycle is just as hard as yama but there's a bailout option if you fail at yama

nocturne solstice
#

whats the bailout option?

mild saddle
#

chill and mage

nocturne solstice
#

Thats... not a bailout option...

mild saddle
#

not sure i follow

tacit wharf
#

thing i find hard to understand is, yr not praying range while learning door/alter bandos, yr still praying meele till you get it down

#

so you dont take that big hit

#

from melee

chrome lantern
#

If you do that the minions will actually shred

mild saddle
#

yeah idk about that

#

that's just tank and spanking with bowfa at that point

#

still more uphill than learning yama

tacit wharf
#

the point is to get down the rhythm, not for long trips at that point

chrome lantern
#

Unless you're near 99 def the minions will do you more than 99 in a kill sometimes

#

If you pray melee

mild saddle
#

sounds like way more effort than learning yama tbh

tacit wharf
#

resetting is simply running back to the start tile and and waiting to restart

mild saddle
#

idk yama did not get close to endgame and i really don't think it even gets into lategame

tacit wharf
#

the fact you think donofly is simplier than door/alter just gets reinforced since you already could do door/alter

mild saddle
#

yeah i get that

#

but i've also never done door altar, i did the cannon method

#

door altar didn't exist then

tacit wharf
#

its the same principle

mild saddle
#

yeah i get that

chrome lantern
#

I did like 800 kc 9:0 then 600 more kc door-altar

#

Then another 200 kc so far on the gim

mild saddle
#

idk i did donofly first kc solo and then off'd to mage when the waves came and been bored since

chrome lantern
#

I don't really think that mage only is even easier than graardor tbh

#

And donofly is definitely harder than door-altar

mild saddle
#

i think they're really, really similar

chrome lantern
#

I think it's similar but if you put in dealing with orbs it's harder to fly

tacit wharf
#

its like saying multiplication is easy, after you learned how to add

#

while most people cant count

chrome lantern
#

And unless you're at really high stats and gear you will get orbs even in a duo