game-update

[small anvil]

Re arkan blade

[hard axle]

I think the only thing comparable is Korasi cost back then, but yes, you’re right in that it’s not 1:1 by any means

it just hits like a truck at times, in between dds vs burning claws, while being better than claws in pvp

[small anvil]

Like all the features that make VW a really good pvp spec are missing, it's more like an DDS to ags spec somewhere in there

Claws has better minimum hits I believe

[hard axle]

Trying to see where this irrational fear of group content is coming from because you’re basically saying “no content for you because I don’t like it” to people who do enjoy it

[small anvil]

I just get annoyed at Tass calling it cheap vw when none of the things that make VW so strong are there lol

[hard axle]

Like I said above, design limitations exist way harder for solo than teams

[small anvil]

VW is a one switch mix up on prayers, doesn't miss, doesn't noodle as much

[hard axle]

Fair enough yeah

[white narwhal]

Idk how you got irrational fear of ppl out of any of that’s it’s exactly the opposite I cba working with annoying ppl 🤷‍♂️

[true talon]

Think of all the cool gear you could bring for delves if the boss didn’t melee you

[white narwhal]

It’s honestly just not fun don’t no what else to say about it

[hard axle]

Thats why I was asking who you’re potting with… are you potting with friends or strangers?

cuz if you have no experience or it was with bad folks, of course your experience is going to be different than mine

[frail nebula]

I do kinda wonder who Jagex imagines will end up using the rosewood blowpipe, tbh

[white narwhal]

I’ll just go with we have different views it is what it is

[frail nebula]

92 woodcutting and 84 fletching are some pretty steep requirements for it

I'm guessing irons will just go with the ironwood blowpipe, if they go for any at all?

since that still lets you use addy darts

[hard axle]

can you just answer who you potted with and why it was just a bad experience?

[hard axle]

Skilling BP below BP

That you can drop

Good for speedrunning ig

Like sulphur blades

[frail nebula]

I guess?

Just feels like it might be a little bit too niche

Could probably do with being able to use rune darts IMO

[tiny dew]

Def went to 416 once and decided thats the entire tob experience

[frail nebula]

it's weird that it goes mithril, addy, then... addy again

[tiny dew]

Love when people complain about multiplayer in an mmo

[true talon]

Good to kill revenants with

[hard axle]

I mean… did u expect anything else when the gap between upgrades is just tiny as fuck

The gap is nonexistent

[frail nebula]

well, as I was saying there, I do feel like the rosewood blowpipe could probably be fine to use rune darts

[hard axle]

either you creep hard on BP or it’s disposable

[frail nebula]

toxic bp still has amethyst and dragon darts

[hard axle]

I’d have to see the math but even amethyst might be fine

[true talon]

I like when they make all this Almost good easy to produce items. Means I can use them in the wildy.

[frail nebula]

that is true

[hard axle]

Disgusting black Dhide users

[frail nebula]

just bring max so you're too hard to kill 🤔

[hard axle]

No no no

[true talon]

Yea I should be skilled at revs in masori with tbow an avernic treads

[frail nebula]

throw on some zaryte vambraces and you're cooking

you'll scare PKers away

definitely

[true talon]

And my d arrow stack

[frail nebula]

of course

all of them

it's not like you're a coward, right

[true talon]

Honestly I’d rather lose full masori than my d arrow stack

Masori easier to get back

[trim imp]

Is the earthbound tecpatl useful anywhere in PvM? It seems out of place, given that there are only three enemies I can find that are specifically weak to stab while also having negative flat armor: lizardmen brutes, sulphur lizards, and earthen nagua themselves.

Can't use it at Perilous Moons, since Eclipse Moon has positive flat armor.

[vestal cosmos]

They made the earthbound just to complete the set, it’s useless for now yeah

[small anvil]

sulphur lizards sound kinda useful to kill actually. the ice coolers suck for turael skip/boost

tho its only -1 flat armor

[finite tapir]

i sorta wish the automatic-item slayer rewards were like

"instant"

like the automatic ice cooler perk is really slow

[small anvil]

ya they do it auto but its so slow to happen

[vestal cosmos]

Yeah like in RS3, as long as you have the auto smash perk, you can hit a 35(00) health gargoyle for 35(00) damage and it dies instantly. However if there’s a 5(00) hp gargoyle you don’t want to waste an attack on you can still right-click smash it manually.

Or use a hammer from your inv if you want to

[upper ice]

Always did sulphur but I think technically desert is faster jusy more annoying. You would manually kill with ice cooler for it to be faster

[small anvil]

i never tried sulphur, and i doubt the new weapon actually makes it faster than using a whip tbh

with only -1 flat armor

[upper ice]

idk i cannoned them

u cannon and safespot it so it hits multiple and then ucan bp/webweaver 1 while safespotted

[small anvil]

that does sound faster

[upper ice]

yeah its like 2 min

but desert even faster if u cannon and manually ice cooler but just more annoying

[thick beacon]

is there anywhere arkan blade beats bclaws? feel like its a sleepr weapon

[hard axle]

no clue

but its strong

[true talon]

It is indeed sleeper, esp in PvP.

[vestal cosmos]

It’s not necessarily made to replace a stronger spec weapon like bclaws for PvM, it’s supposed to be a stepping stone between DDS and claws.

[true talon]

You could bring 1 to anti pk, it maxes pretty high in rag gear lll

[vestal cosmos]

But it also works as a very cheap wildly spec yeah

[true talon]

Yo can whack a 50 with it in max as well, which is around voidwaker

[vestal cosmos]

I’ve seen it hit >60 +10 in str gear

[true talon]

That’s spec

You can spec a 75+10 in max

Kinda crazy

[vestal cosmos]

Oh I guess it’s decent as a main hand too but whip much better

[icy relic]

basically free d scim with a nice spec

only 30% bar too

[hard axle]

and its only 75k

did they add to perdu yet or no

cuz perdu access would be very massive

[vestal cosmos]

I suppose it’s great for Ironman Wildy Slayer where you don’t have a stronger main weapon

[icy relic]

it's not as gross as korasi but it basically is a mini vw

[vestal cosmos]

It’s a mini VW in that it’s a single-hit spec with high accuracy and damage, but I’d compare it more to a mini AGS

[lone remnant]

so we all agree 8+ loots are a waste of time, yeah

[hard axle]

me for rates on wednesday

[lone remnant]

all my buddies who suck ass printing drops on 4-7 and i cant get anything but pets 8+

[icy relic]

8+ will become viable once there is a reliable way to clear acid

[vestal cosmos]

The high points of the VW are that it hits with Magic, never misses, and has a decent minimum hit. Arkan can still miss, hits with melee, and min hit is 11 over time.

[lone remnant]

8+ is already viable

[icy relic]

because deep delve has lower HP than 8

[lone remnant]

the drop rates are just clearly not good

[hard axle]

I swear to god

if 1-7

is meta

[icy relic]

no like deep delve should be easier than 8

[hard axle]

I will

[icy relic]

50 less HP than 8

[hard axle]

but more lava pools

[lone remnant]

Like, everyone is telling me to just do 1-8 resets

and im like surely that cant be right

i almost refuse to believe it

[icy relic]

after the update as long as you walk the shield orb you can't have rocks fall on you and the middle tile of the orb clears poison

[hard axle]

I'm just trying to get to delve 15 man

cuz that's surely the highest they expect for GM

[lone remnant]

ah 15 will be free

dw

i only bring enough prayer for 13

[icy relic]

there's gonna be a 0 prayer point used 1-8 ca

[lone remnant]

im sure i can squeeze in an extra pot

[icy relic]

thanks hemeonc

[hard axle]

not when I fucking autopilot and proc the phase before boulders come out

[lone remnant]

man abandon that... you dont need to prep boulders

at most you tank a 35 at the end which is 2 brew sips

[hard axle]

no no, I still survive

[vestal cosmos]

What, you wanted damage prayers? Sucks to be you just flick your protections

[hard axle]

it's just me dying at orb

from pryaers

[lone remnant]

ok but back to drop rates

[hard axle]

Is there a way to null shockwave on south/west btw

[lone remnant]

its actually nuts that 8+ is not meta for drops

like its CLEARLY not meta

[hard axle]

I saw a hypothetical post

where they said it might be tied to claims

the more claims u have the better loot u get

down the line

[lone remnant]

wow thats uh, monkey behavior if true

[sacred skiff]

What that’s just dum

Actually lol

[lone remnant]

cause i just go until i get capped

[sacred skiff]

Surely not

[lone remnant]

ill go into wave 14 with like, 1 dose of brew

i got a banger screenshot to post but the mods havent given me the right

[lone remnant]

can you link this, i want t osee if theres actual math or just someone spitballing

[icy relic]

but yeah I'm doing 1-8 rn

not dying to 8 much anymore

[lone remnant]

idk how theyd tie it to total claims though

[hard axle]

spitballing

[icy relic]

I still think it's sampling bias

250k 8+ clears and millions of low clears

[hard axle]

completely possible yeah

[lone remnant]

holy smokes the playerbase sucks

only 278k wave 8 clears

[icy relic]

yeah it's a really small handful of players

doing all the 8 clears

[lone remnant]

and im still climbing ranks for ironman somehow rank 164

guess others got the drop

[hard axle]

https://tenor.com/view/im-doing-my-part-serious-stare-gif-11979677

[true talon]

Seeing gnomonkey still not have a drop after sending deep deep runs since release. Kinda troll. I just do 1-7 and I have 850 delves. It’s so demotivating to actually send the content. Because it doesn’t reward shit.

[lone remnant]

i have almost 1.9k delves rn, 4 pets, 1 staff, 2 cloths

218 deep delves

[true talon]

I don’t have anything at 850

[vestal cosmos]

Not to downplay your achievement Zas but 7 uniques in <1.9k chances does seem lucky

[lone remnant]

pet isnt on the same table bud

[true talon]

This might come as a surprise but I do not think lvl 8 is meant to be as hard as it currently is. As delves seemed like a push your supply to the limit to get deep. Not die as soon as you make a mistake or get a bad string of rng.

[lone remnant]

come take 3 of them

i got 2 within 1 kc of eachother

[true talon]

I have a feeling lvl 8 is giga bugged and they saw players liked the challenge and just left it.

[lone remnant]

lvl 8 is not hard man i hate to break it to you

[true talon]

278k clears says otherwise

[lone remnant]

the playerbase is just not that good

watching my friends who i thought were decent do delve has really made me realize who among them is good and who is not lol

[true talon]

I think they are good, but the incentive to go deep is not there. Just like you wouldn’t do awakened leviathan for drops.

[vestal cosmos]

The definition of content being “hard” is that the large majority of players who seriously try it find it difficult. Floor 8+ is hard content that you are good at, not “normal” difficulty most players are bad at.

[lone remnant]

nah bro the playerbase didnt realize world lag existed until this week, its been going on for years

[true talon]

Worlds been shit since the game blew up, delve flicking and movement and demand has only made it worst

Click to dodge and my char moves 2 ticks later

[lone remnant]

I disagree. 99% of the playerbase is not good and that is OKAY. but I dont understand this mentality of jagex everytime now having to cater to everyone with updates

too many ironman updates

[true talon]

There is not many Ironman focused updates. This is pretty false.

[lone remnant]

i shouldnt be competing with someone who cant breathe on their own sending wave 4 resets for the best boots in theg ame

[upper ice]

ye like why am i seeing 10 billion wave 5 boot drops bro

should be 8 only

[true talon]

What a awful mentality

[lone remnant]

how so

[true talon]

You aren’t competing with anyone btw.

[upper ice]

?

cooked

[true talon]

Ironman is not a competition, it’s a self explored journey of progress and goals.

[lone remnant]

i could literally send you the changelog for the past 3 years, remove like 4 pieces of content, and still be right

[true talon]

Wrong

[lone remnant]

yeah, so why is their journey made easier by having boots obtainable without the skill level that should be necessary for BEST IN SLOT boots

[true talon]

You confuse early and mid game improvements as Ironman only

[lone remnant]

i distinctly remember jagex saying 'we will never make ironman specific updates' now they do it all the time

[true talon]

Dunno, why can they get bis raid items and weps from being carried in raids

[lone remnant]

this argument doesnt hold any water when raid drops scale, whereas delve it appears they do not scale at all

which is the point being argued

[true talon]

Because it’s a game and content catered to a tiny portion of the player base, is not profitable to jagex or worth the development resources committed to it.

[lone remnant]

there you go, just say that

[upper ice]

lmfao

[lone remnant]

instead of beating around the bush

[upper ice]

if the game had integrity boots would be wave 8+ only

theyre insanely broken

[true talon]

They are boots calm down my guy

[upper ice]

?

have u ever seen them in use by players who know what theyre doing

gm time in all content is now a complete joke

[true talon]

They are boots buddy

[sacred skiff]

I'd wager you'd see like 2 more max hits, yeah

[lone remnant]

my buddy who is running oathplate contracts is literally shaving 20-30 seconds off his kills every time with these changes

[sacred skiff]

But I do want some

[upper ice]

ok and ? what does this mean lmfao

[true talon]

Boots didn’t make this happen

[lone remnant]

everything that came into the game with delve is OP

[upper ice]

ok man

[lone remnant]

and they are all too easily acquirable at low waves

[upper ice]

u just arent saying anything

[sacred skiff]

Ooh maybe if I can get wand + boots I can get those whisperer CAs even without shadow

would be dope

[true talon]

Congrats I’m glad he saved 20 seconds.

[upper ice]

u definitely can

[lone remnant]

100% u can

[vestal cosmos]

At least how I define it, the top 10% or so PvMers are “good” players who can at least complete most PvM content with difficulty. The top >1% including yourself are the “very good” PvMers who go for Zuk helm, delve 15, etc.

[sacred skiff]

I do agree they should have been more like 4/5/6 than 2/3/4

[lone remnant]

once again missing the point. the hardest content in the game having 20-30s shaved off is not 'woohoo' its gamechanging

[sacred skiff]

That's just silly easy of a fight to get the stuff

[upper ice]

30s on oathplate contract is insane

[lone remnant]

and thats FINE

[sacred skiff]

But I'm just a 7-claiming weenie

[true talon]

I agree and with a much more reasonable drop rate

[sacred skiff]

Truuue I feel like when rates come out they're gonna be lowww

[lone remnant]

we need yewchopper69s running around

but yewchopper69s should be running around with dragon boots, not avernic treads

[true talon]

Jokes on you he cut enough yews to buy the boots

[icy relic]

The drop rates are very ass

[lone remnant]

yew chopping king

[sacred skiff]

76 wc lol

"I chopped logs for these boots"

[icy relic]

4/5/6 feels fair

[lone remnant]

6/7/8 fight me

[vestal cosmos]

The part I have issue with is you saying 8+ is balanced for the 10% “not that hard they’re just bad” when it’s really for you 1%

[upper ice]

literally boots need to be 8+

[sacred skiff]

You don't even finish getting mechanics added to the delve until 6

[lone remnant]

i literally never said that

[true talon]

Reason I k ow the rate don’t scale,
6 is the pet which is often reserved for the high end of content.

[sacred skiff]

and you've gotten 2 rolls at boots by then lol

[lone remnant]

I said the drop rates are ass at 8+

[icy relic]

The common loot stops scaling after 3

[lone remnant]

i said most of the playerbase is ass

and again, thats fine

but dont be handing out bis to ass

[true talon]

8 is only showing on high score which is weird considering it’s difficulty

[icy relic]

Wouldn't surprise me if unique stopped at 6

[upper ice]

its okay for games to giving the bis items at very hard content that most people cant complete

thats healthy

you can still buy them if you cant do it yourself

[true talon]

I’m ass and have the boots, because turns out you can just buy them.

[icy relic]

A lot of current and former BiS come from joke content

Don't agree with that mentality

[upper ice]

that doesnt invalidate what i just said

just because it happens to be the case

[lone remnant]

and again, thats fine. but it probably came from yewchopper69 instead of someone sending 8+

which is why you got it for what, 400-700m instead of 1b+

[vestal cosmos]

I’m not saying it should give easy drops, just that the content is very difficult to impossible for >90% of players.

[upper ice]

yeah and that is completely fine

[true talon]

I was kidding, I would t buy boots for half a bil lol

[lone remnant]

Good

[craggy tusk]

Can still get shadow at 0invo
toa, so boots at 4 is fine right

[icy relic]

You should be rewarded with better rates for being good

[upper ice]

yep. i agree with this mentality.

[lone remnant]

bad argument. they admitted that was dumb as shit

[upper ice]

people with high skill should not even bother to try pushing

you can just get them wave 4 anyway

[true talon]

You’d become port khazard in skill if you spent the same amount of time doing pvm as trying to make this happen.

[lone remnant]

the core gist of my argument is this:

Why am I being 'punished' (dont know for sure yet) for pushing myself to the max

[icy relic]

Because RS3 streaking was too good

[dawn nexus]

Hopefully they don’t get any more common at 4+

[true talon]

I hope they don’t so I can laugh

[icy relic]

And OSRS shits itself to not be like RS3

[lone remnant]

rs3 is a good game outside of pvm

[true talon]

Look at all these elitest pushing deep in bugged content and ego checking each other all to get the same rate as the 1-4 Andy’s

[lone remnant]

i will die on this hill

[upper ice]

its also just annoying seeing so many people get them wave 5 which is so much less effort than pushing as high as possible

and going dry

which literally happened to me

[lone remnant]

its honestly a refusal to believe that its true that 8+ has worse rates. it would feel so bad that I almost cant believe its real

[upper ice]

i would believe it with jagex

[true talon]

I believe it, because jagex don’t reward you for being good

[upper ice]

unfortunately

[true talon]

Look at cms and hmtob

[lone remnant]

they did with yama

[lone remnant]

my buddy prints

[upper ice]

that means nothing lmfao

[icy relic]

look at that difference

[upper ice]

its a different game too

[hard axle]

give me one NOW

[lone remnant]

trade u 3 for boots

[vestal cosmos]

The difference is long kill streaking is 5x better than low single kills

[icy relic]

the devs said specifically that they would limit the benefit you gain from streaking so it wouldn't end up with an RS3 situation

where gamers get to juice infinite loot

and everyone else gets nothing

[upper ice]

which is how it should be?

if you want to get rewarded like that then just get better or if you cba then just buy the item

its bis

[vestal cosmos]

For common loot streaking shouldn’t inflate it. Uniques should get much more common as you go, especially since delve is one-inventory so pushing deeper is much harder

[lone remnant]

rs3 literally out here with zimbabwe dollars

[lone remnant]

agreed, but it seems like rates at 8+ are miserable

[icy relic]

I don't think 8+ will be that hard after the proposed update

rocks no longer fall on you inside orb

all you do is control click and you never take damage

[lone remnant]

i dont really care if its harder or easier

i just want the boots

[icy relic]

no that's not my point

[small anvil]

its kinda spooky that the people who are doing deep delves (sample size idk, 5 or so) are saw more drops before 8 than post 8

[tacit wharf]

then get boots

[lone remnant]

and lets be honest, the reason they dont release the rates is so they can quietly adjust them

[icy relic]

we will have a bigger sample size after the changes because you can sit at 8+ for a lot lot longer

[small anvil]

i would absolutely not be surprised if it was flat rates

[hard axle]

I think we're all agreeing that the loot is trash

[lone remnant]

all 3 of my uniques came under 7, consistent 8+ delver

[icy relic]

yeah this is probably the case tbh

[hard axle]

whether it's base loot or 8+

[icy relic]

it really would not surprise me if unique scaling stopped after 6

[small anvil]

and like, some of them are going to 11 or 13 usually

[hard axle]

if it was flat, god that would be awful cuz

that means 1-4 would be meta

LOL

[small anvil]

5 is easy for people too right?

[lone remnant]

i mean day 2 we were already calling 6 loot wave

[hard axle]

its slower though

[upper ice]

ngl i die at 5

[lone remnant]

5 is harder than 7 lol

[icy relic]

nah you'd still want to go to 8

[small anvil]

like you do the waves that are easy for you

[upper ice]

car phase too short

[icy relic]

3/4/5 are ass

[small anvil]

you only get 1 roll doing 1-4

[icy relic]

6-8 are fast

[upper ice]

so you usually get orbs

[small anvil]

and that takes what, 3 mins?

at boots*

[icy relic]

shield phase no car sucks

[hard axle]

uhh u get a roll at 2 for gloves, 3 for wand, 4 for boots

no?

[small anvil]

yeah i meant if hunting boots

[hard axle]

wait, can you even get multiple uniques?

in 1 wave

[small anvil]

i dont think anyones ever risked one to try

[hard axle]

no no, like boots/wand at wave 4

together

[lone remnant]

I risked a cloth

[small anvil]

no idea

[icy relic]

no

one per wave

[lone remnant]

didnt get anything on 8 after risking it on 7

[upper ice]

i risk pet now since i have 3 already

[hard axle]

oof okay so maybe it it is 1-6

[small anvil]

scam

[hard axle]

striclty for boots

7 is giga free ngl

[small anvil]

but yeah i think it'd be like 1-6 or 7

[lone remnant]

i really thought there might be a mechanic to risking uniques

[small anvil]

but no incentive to push

[lone remnant]

but alas i was wrong

[icy relic]

1-7 1-8 basically

[small anvil]

depends on how consistent people are at a specific wave

[icy relic]

after updates 8+ has 50 fewer hp and should be easier to camp with no acid ragging

well, less acid ragging

[small anvil]

i genuinely worry that the rate on 8+ is bugged lol

it shouldnt be an issue

[hard axle]

what does crowdsourcing say btw

[icy relic]

doesn't really matter for me

[hard axle]

does wiki still crowdsource

[icy relic]

doesn't change my play pattern

just 1-8 claims and then I move to China next week and can't pvm ever again until they add servers

[small anvil]

wiki does but the loot track is probably all sorts of messed up

[lone remnant]

wiki has a hard time crowdsourcing cause base loot is so ass nobody claims until unique

[vestal cosmos]

Just don’t do bosses on release when they’re still glitchy 🙃

[small anvil]

they dont get loot claims unless people get the drop

like the loot trackers of people are crazy for delve

[icy relic]

oh noes my risk of 75 death runes 75 chaos runes and 40 sun kissed bones

[small anvil]

would tell you its like a 50% unique rate

[hard axle]

ah fuck

[lone remnant]

alright im going in

[hard axle]

ur right

[lone remnant]

if i get nothing, you will all be informed

[small anvil]

from a clanmate

[lone remnant]

and vice versa

[small anvil]

wow cracked loot!

[lone remnant]

lets kill him guys

in minecraft

[small anvil]

but like

you see the problem for crowdsource and this right

[minor whale]

600 delve levels done and only need pet to green log

[lone remnant]

https://tenor.com/view/northernlion-nl-hammers-beat-him-beat-gif-7823471197919175037

[hard axle]

cani have pet

[minor whale]

Yeah crowdsourcing the boss is basically impossible

[icy relic]

where are my boots

[upper ice]

28 deep delvees

[minor whale]

All rates would be "did they make it to a unique and claim or did they claim at end of wave 8“

[lone remnant]

wish i could post my log

[small anvil]

you sure you cant now?

you're steel rank now, idk what the req is

[lone remnant]

u right

[upper ice]

respect

[small anvil]

lol mid fight

[icy relic]

4 pets jeez

[small anvil]

friend has 5, but he also did like 2700 waves or smth

[lone remnant]

i can post this banger now

[vestal cosmos]

Uh oh u stuck noob

[small anvil]

just get hit by another boulder and you'll be popped out

maybe

[lone remnant]

he pushed me out at car

-40

[true talon]

Very high risk vs reward indeed

Every time I attempt 8 I got no food and nothing on the line, mindswell risk it lol

-10k coffer money easy game

[lone remnant]

heres my stuff only claiming when i run out of prayer

so anywhere from 11-13

[true talon]

Gross 🤮

[round lintel]

The problem is not the puzzles but the wanky mechanics, the high hp high defence on higher lvls. Puzzles are bad designed overall but thats not what makes toa de worst raid

[icy relic]

Toa is just unfun

Need weights around your ankles if you want drops

[lone remnant]

toa has too many bad mechanics to be better than tob

too much downtime mixed with too many one hit mechanics = bad time

[chrome lantern]

Tassili will tell you ToB is awful because he has to have friends

[icy relic]

Isn't duo tob pretty chill now with oath and boots

So just one friend

[chrome lantern]

Eye probably helps a lot for duo

[lone remnant]

HAHAHAHA

[round lintel]

Tob is much better because its unique mechanics, the defence on bosses are high but are drained much easier, and specific roles that makes it super fast and good experience 416 is not for learners together

[lone remnant]

UNREAL

[icy relic]

No way

[round lintel]

If you wanna learn then go we do raids discord

[upper ice]

tob best raid

[lone remnant]

#5 add it to the pile

[upper ice]

most fun

[craggy tusk]

Tob4life

[lone remnant]

selling dom pets 500m ea

[minor whale]

ToA could have been dope if there was more than like 1 instance of emergent gameplay

Wow you can butterfly and that's literally all of the mechanics you can do that aren't intended

[lone remnant]

theres literally 0 skill expression room for improvement at toa

[upper ice]

eh idk about that

still not a good raid though

[minor whale]

It definitely hurts it

CoX has so much minmaximg

ToB is like "you're never gonna be perfect" but you can always improve

ToA has butterflying and used to have red X and that's really all the tech

[lone remnant]

tob has

infinite tech for bloat

skipping at maiden (door tech included)

nylo tick perfect waves and reaction time

sote 1t maze

xarpus 5t vs 5.3t

verz p1 hado, etc

p2 boak, hmt boak alternate

p3 pogtank

wtf does toa have

[upper ice]

toa has more than people give it credit for

but its still the least of the 3

[lone remnant]

and hot take

[upper ice]

and also its just not fun

[minor whale]

The main thing is just that ToA is boring

Doing ToA during leagues wasn't even fun

Which is insane

[icy relic]

Def is way too high, no benefit for grouping

Too many things instagib you

[lone remnant]

and on top of that, its outside of those insta shot mechanics

[icy relic]

And now no loot either unless you're a redditor doing 180s

Funny that 300s are unchanged but everything above that is just worse than prenerf in terms of raids per item

[upper ice]

doing toa is just insta burn out

just entering the pyramid makes me wanna logout

[lone remnant]

i used to joke hardest part about toa was potting

[round lintel]

Things I hate from ToA

• Warden p3 (You have to be almost tick perfect on skulls if Insanity but servers are shit or ping bad)

• If you wanna learn skull skip you have to do the whole raid to practice

-Akkha is so stupid awful even in a 350 full crystal bowfa butterfly takes over 4 mins

• Kephri defence is reeeeeally high that you either get good RNG and go fast or f yourself in over 5 mins of over 400

• Kephri medic in solos is the worst

• Zebak's defence and scale on hp is soo ridiculous.

[upper ice]

legit

clog.

[icy relic]

8.7M ward wow

[lone remnant]

that image had my discord open on the side one sec

[icy relic]

I hit 3 wards in a row after the update

Think they're like 2m now or something

[lone remnant]

eh whatever

was just 10 fang kits

[round lintel]

5 lightbearers and 1 fang after the "update" on drop rates

Doing 350s

[icy relic]

Yeh I hit 2 LB 1 fang 3 ward 1 masori mask at 400

Fun

[lone remnant]

i havent even done toa since changes

plan to keep it that way

[round lintel]

I am on an iron and have to go for masori

[icy relic]

The monkey room doesn't scale up in group raids anymore

[hard axle]

i swear to you that if they made toa bosses be able to reduce even down to just 50% of their total defense, instead of 0-30%, the raid would be infinitely better

[icy relic]

So the room is done in like 50 seconds

[round lintel]

But so far im at 2 fangs, 5 lbs, ward

[hard axle]

but they won't because tbow would beat shadow again

[icy relic]

If they're going to make it like that idk

[hard axle]

if you could reduce baba to 0, scythe > fang in teams

[icy relic]

Just reduce the def or something

[lone remnant]

fellas its almost like role based mechanics make the game fun

maybe thats why tob is goated

[hard axle]

but instead, they opted to keep shit high defense

in exchange for giant mole

damage

[lone remnant]

who wouldve thought

[icy relic]

That's what raids are about in mmos

Roles and responsibility

[craggy tusk]

I really hope raids 4 is gonna be like tob

[hard axle]

I like how tob basically formed their own roles

rather than jagex enforcing it

but jagex did the complete opposite for toa - "do this or die"

[lone remnant]

whoever made tob at jagex should be in charge of all high level pvm

and they should let mod arcane just use a coloring book

[round lintel]

Yeah, if you dont have a shadow is the worst? Imagine I have a tbow and hit like 250+ bgs specs damage on warden p3 and I still get last row without insanity which is insane on its own

[lone remnant]

great job on tob mod shit and mod fart and oooh mod arcane great drawing thats going on the fridge

[icy relic]

I want to try eye on wardens

Should be able to skip last row

[hard axle]

I know we didn't like 0 defenseing everything

but god, I miss those days

[round lintel]

8 men 400s+ toa are the worst

[hard axle]

they really fucking are

they're so BORING

[round lintel]

Actually toa in groups sucks

[hard axle]

but if u fucking sleep for 1 second, u get exploded

[lone remnant]

8 men 400s+ toa are the worst

[hard axle]

literlaly the only reason why toa had "high engagement" is because they gave it the best rewards out of all three raids, the best raw drop rate, etc.

[icy relic]

Haha

Where are those drops now

[lone remnant]

goes back to my most of the playerbase sucks argument too

[hard axle]

it's like releasing sett in league of legends on release super broken

and any champion

in order to sell skins

and then nerfing afterwards

[lone remnant]

s2 kassadin type vibes

[hard axle]

anyone who knows game balance knows this

[icy relic]

I would rather have stuff be gatekept by skill but faster to obtain

[hard axle]

samira

[icy relic]

Than just being rare as shit but you have to do 1k raids

[lone remnant]

brb gotta wash the stink of this 5th dom pet out of my ass

[hard axle]

u can skip cox, u can skip tob, but you really can't skip toa

the rewards are just too good

[round lintel]

I went 329 for one time and people killed ne twice, once on Kephri they trapped me on poop and once on Akkha with the light where of you move someone else gets damaged

[lone remnant]

last thing I do like that toa kills hcim regularly

+1 to that

[hard axle]

it's insane that anyone is arguing that toa isn't dogwater boring and dogwater mechanically, and i've done 500+ for pet chance

the rewards it gives make zero sense other than the fact that jagex wanted to entice billybobs in

[hard axle]

they shouldn't be getting rewarded even a 1/10k chance imo

its bad game design

because if 150s is 1.9% purple rate, then that means 300s has to be at least proportionate to that

[round lintel]

They just need to delete toa

[hard axle]

500s have to be proportionate to 300s, which means it all starts at 150s and even 0s

[tacit wharf]

so when's the start of the 3rd financial quarter, so jagex doesnt have to puff up the #'s for the investors?

[round lintel]

Now cox is good where its at but has toooo many items that you can go dry for a single item

[hard axle]

and to your point on this

I swear to god

going dry at toa feels legitimately worse than going dry at cox

am i crazy to say that?

[icy relic]

Olm is a nap

[round lintel]

You are not because toa is more like a dirty job

[hard axle]

olm has actual depth

[round lintel]

On my main I went there on release did 120 250s on week 1 and 2

Got nothing

Then up to 300s-400s and got fang, ward and 2 lbs and left

[icy relic]

I like olm but I hate half the rooms

[round lintel]

On my iron im kinda forced to go because masori is too good and nex ffa where kinda bitchy for me bringing dhides lol

[icy relic]

Use mixed hide

[round lintel]

Lol

[hard axle]

that's how he get punched out

over and over

do not mixed hides

[round lintel]

From cox I believe and this is just my opinion elder maul and kodai shouldnt be in the same drop rate as tbow

They should be in a different drop rate, the fact that tbow is the only megarare that shares spot with other 2 items makes it bad for most people

[hard axle]

I lowkey think it's fine, but i think kodai needs a buff

they slapped on so many +15% mdmg shit over the years

that kodai is missing the oomph that makes it mega-rare worthy

[icy relic]

DHW is good enough

[hard axle]

u get an elder maul? bis crush spec def drainer

[round lintel]

Or yea make those items worth to be megarares

[hard axle]

but kodai? not only do u need to go grind a MTA, but it's legitimately

kinda mid

it's a cost saver compared to nm staff

and maybe 10 accuracy

[icy relic]

More and more things can autocast ancients

I think that's the real issue

[hard axle]

yeah, the 4 ancient sceptre variants

u get my point

kodai is the least mega rare of the mega rares

[icy relic]

Blue moon spear, DHW

Now you can just take dhw into inferno and it functionally does the same thing

I would move Kodai down to claws tier at this point

[round lintel]

Elder maul and all its changes and you still miss alot haha, dwh all and all hits higher on spec

Spec does kinda the same but id prefer drain defence and hit an 80 the way than a max 63 with elder maul

I remember the time when we had harpoon, dsword, knives and t axes as purples too

I think I got d axes and couple of swords

[true talon]

kodai niche was saving water runes, but then they added a 4 slot rune pouch lol

[round lintel]

Kodai should at least be same accuracy as the purging staff

On a whole different topic is corp for irons xd

[icy relic]

Yeah fuck ward lmao

God I hate toa

[true talon]

its something you do when you have nothing else to go for like phosani

[round lintel]

nah the elidinis ward without the sigil is awful bad

I dont care about the defence

but accuracy is shit

[meager flame]

Tbh they'll probably buff kodai eventually

Same way theyre going to eventually come back around to tob stuff

[hard axle]

hear me out, we fuse kodai with sang

and now it heals on top of other stuff

[meager flame]

This isn't the kind of game where they can just let the rarest gear from the higher end content just be trash forever so they kinda gotta do something

[round lintel]

and the harm orb to the equation LOOOL

[kind sail]

double heal with blood barraga

i fw it

[hard axle]

that's right

[kind sail]

esp for gwd

would be zzz

even more zzz

[meager flame]

Its fine when its like a random boss

But they cant let raids slide like that

[round lintel]

Make the Kodai like a fang but now we have the gauntlets

[icy relic]

Make kodai permanently give you a t2 thrall

[round lintel]

lmao thats too op with the master ca

[icy relic]

I think it would be a cool thematic buff to let you weave a little bit of arceeus into the ancients book

Or giving 1 death charge every 2 minutes when casting ancients

Would make it good for places where you use ancients

[round lintel]

Kodai, nm staff and sotd have a 15% to save the runes for cast

so idk about that

[austere mulch]

Not sure how it’d be thematic to let you use the best arc spells while not on the arc book

If anything, it just gives less reason to be on the arc book ever

[round lintel]

I would say the best they can do is give more accuracy or help with hitting more often

give a 1/15 chance to hit 1 tick faster on next cast

[last onyx]

We merching Kodai's?

[last onyx]

It is indeed, and with more specific style weapons & gear being introduced it'll open more in depth roles for the future i can imagine.

Would have loved to bring shadow into ToB as a mager with a full mage set, but that was shut down by all the Tobbers panicking and claiming that all roles would apparently bring 8-way mage switch into money runs (I don't personally see how they could fit all that gear tho xD)

[round lintel]

tbh you bring shadow into tob and they call you moron for some reason

[last onyx]

Well, there wasn't really any end-game content developing for so many years they had to create their own content and that was speed-running ToB and making tick perfect metas for ToB. The amount of degen hours put into that raid by the community is crazy xD

So anything not in their spreadsheet is a no-go haha

[round lintel]

The thing is, you go into 416 with people less than 50kc and dying at maiden but they still feel entitle to call you moron for bringing shadow

I would understand ifyou are with pro tobbers but not with some randoms that barely knows the rooms

[keen coral]

has there been any updates on when the rest of poll 84 will be implemented?

[round lintel]

They've been awfully quiet this week

[minor whale]

Likely after the last of the Doom/Varla p3 changed are finished

[narrow folio]

Fun fact that even eye of ayak is competitive with whip at verzik assuming no tick loss

[trim cedar]

Alright brother, will this Summer Swap update come again next month or is this final?

[vestal cosmos]

But very few excepting Ironmen is using a whip for ToB, and those IM certainly don’t have an Eye

[austere mulch]

In what gear though

And phase, presumably p3. Because p2 has 100 higher magic level

[dire mango]

Guessing this also assumes permanent heart boost. Something which is very unrealistic in any casual raid.

[plush gull]

ngl after making a gim i kinda wish tonzaltics of ralos were slightly better mainhand dps than msb, would be a great earlygame ranged weapon since u can do colo pretty early with melee/blighted restore pots

make it between moonlight antler bolts and amethyst darts bp even

[near widget]

fuse kodai with the 4 sceptres to make it have all effects

that'll give it increased chances to catch freezes which is nice

and you can overheal w/ blood barrage

and whatever the other two do xD

[hard axle]

Oh LORD

the ultimate barrage weapon

And I know this is going to sound crazy

But maybe, just maybe, we make it 50 accuracy

[near widget]

😛

[hard axle]

Or give it another double roll just like confliction

[near widget]

would be nice to make the buttplug get some love

[hard axle]

Cuz idk why purging is the highest accuracy mage 1h

[near widget]

haven't gotten any chambers megas but I do dread seeing that as the first

[hard axle]

Mhm, the most replaceable item tbh

[near widget]

yeah

[chrome lantern]

Purging accuracy compared to literal megarare kodai is wild yeah

I like the idea of combining the scepters into it

Also/alongside that maybe making the other two scepters useful would be good

Lowering defense, but only a little, and only on targets you can barrage in the first place, and a slight buff to dead content poison spells

That’s what the shadow and smoke do

[hard axle]

Another relic of the past tbh.

All of the weapons have super low accuracy

[chrome lantern]

I like the idea of combining in scepters/quartz and each one also adding 5 accuracy or something

[vestal cosmos]

Yeah but just the quartzes, scepters not required. Otherwise IMs have to farm three extra ancient staffs and muspah horns

[hard axle]

give how common it is, not really an issue

[chrome lantern]

Took me 175 for my first one xd

[vestal cosmos]

Anyway if somebody wants to combine all these ideas into a post, make a #1022203837265756231 thread

[vestal cosmos]

But farming ancient staffs requires the scarab mages in the Azzanadra pyramid which is beyond pointless

[chrome lantern]

Calvar’ion also but yeah

It also used to be on Scorpia’s table 90% sure but they took that one off for some reason

[vestal cosmos]

Ah I didn’t check the old school wiki page. At least in RS3 the only renewable source is the pyramid mummies

[round lintel]

So, tldr

1. Remove toa or fix the bosses Defence and hp scale.
2. Balance Kodai as the megarare it is.
3. Please make corp better

[chrome lantern]

What did we say about corp

[round lintel]

Ah no, thats mine xd

[chrome lantern]

I didn’t read that part but I’m obligated to oppose it since I spooned ely and arcane

I honestly don’t even think corp needs to be made better if they didn’t tie elid f to it

[vestal cosmos]

“The way you kill Corp” is to BGS him twice, teleport out to restore spec, teleport back and BGS another two times, repeat for four minutes, and then punching bag for another three. And you need to do this like a thousand times (average) for all the sigils. That’s not exactly engaging content.

[chrome lantern]

I don't think all content needs to be engaging though

I would even venture to say that "Dead" content is fine

Like KBD and KQ

[meager flame]

I mean

I think corp needs to be made better because its absolute trash first and foremost lol

[vestal cosmos]

The problem is you’re not really fighting Corp, you’re abusing specs to remove the whole fight. If Corp was like 800 HP and had lower base stats that couldn’t be drained, it might be a decent boss.

[meager flame]

It has 0 redeeming qualities

The only good thing you can say is that the loot is almost so obscure it could just fade from existence but other than that lol

Everything about it is inferior to something else they could've done its kind of wild

From the mechanics to the loot system to the stats it just stays wrong

[vestal cosmos]

Like they wanted to port the boss from RS2 and that’s fine if you rebalance it for OSRS. It was originally designed as a group boss and the drop rates and HP were balanced around group kill times. But now basically nobody groups Corp and it’s just a completely miserable, incredibly slow grind.

[round lintel]

Imagine the eye of ayak spec made it so you could mage it with it while flicking armour

and they patched it xd

[vestal cosmos]

In its current form, all I can compare solo Corp to is Phosani’s Nightmare except that the fight is even less fun and the time to complete (excluding pet) is twice as long.

[round lintel]

Nah PNM has mechanics, has a structure

Corp is that you have to spec down until is a 2k hp chicken

or teleport every time

to kill it

[vestal cosmos]

Some people may find PNM fun because there’s something to engage with (although the majority of players find it a major burnout), but I highly doubt any player sincerely enjoys Corp spec-ing.

[round lintel]

But thats the thing is not similar to corp at all, pnm is very punishing and drops too rare thats why is a major bournout

but corp has no mechanics but hit 40s thru pray, you cant pray you cant play it without making it a chicken

[vestal cosmos]

Even in RS3 where we get Soul Split (basically every attack heals like blood spells) and crazy DPS Corp is still terrible.

[round lintel]

I mean They could at least scale it solo, duo or plus

like scurrius

[vestal cosmos]

I think if they’re not going to massively boost drop chances at Corp they should chop its HP to like 600, lower its stats, and drastically lower chip damage so the fight is actually playable solo.

[round lintel]

I mean Ely is a nice fashionscape

but useless

Spectral is now not even a big need with arc protection for cerb

and Arcane is the only good thing

[vestal cosmos]

It’s great for inferno learners

[vestal cosmos]

And they arbitrarily made it 3x rarer than the other sigils because Jagex

[round lintel]

Nahhh I rather bring ward (f)

I actually got my first cape using it

on my iron was with crystal shield

[vestal cosmos]

Before your inferno cape on your main you bought a ward (f)?!

[round lintel]

I had a big bank

Got my first cape Jan last year

[vestal cosmos]

I mean I’m still a TL 1600 with no fire cape but Ward (f) seems like overkill for inferno unless you’re trying to win in like ten tries

[round lintel]

Ward f has lots of defence, mage accuracy so it was a win win

[vestal cosmos]

I’m not saying it’s a bad idea, I just think it’s a bit overkill

[round lintel]

Took me 23 attempts, 9 zuks

1 Week

[plush gull]

u can do a pretty good inferno setup for like 5m. void ranged, sunlight crossbow, dragonbone necklace, crystal shield. since void range doesnt have negative mage acc u can barrage nibblers and range/melee miniblobs fine with no switches

and it beats dhide for sunlight crossbow

except on zuk where ull wanna be using rubies and managing the range on rcb/dcb is annoying 😭

[vestal cosmos]

On RS3 I tried that version of the Inferno and got all the way to Zuk first try. Then I had to try like four more times just to complete that one Zuk kill.

[icy relic]

Zuk is pretty trivial with necro

HM Zuk only took me a couple tries and I barely knew how to play lol

[vestal cosmos]

I understand the OSRS Zuk fight is very hard but at least it’s mechanically easy to understand what to do. But RS3 Zuk is way too complicated for my necro revolution :L

Like I know how to use defensives manually and everything I just panic and forget what to use when

[plush gull]

its not mechanically easy to understand what to do during zuk, the guides on offticking sets are inaccurate and incomplete and very few people know in detail exactly how sets work. we really need an updated zuk guide

[vestal cosmos]

The single hit ancients hit instantly right? Can you manual cast them to aggro the mobs?

I don’t really know anything about off ticking except that you try to hit the mobs on specific ticks so you can flick them

[icy relic]

Better not to offtick and just BP down the ranger

Missing a prayer on the mage is too dangerous

[plush gull]

if ur max combat stats with a blowpipe and bofa then it doesnt matter, thats not what the standard for guides should be tho

the "hit with crossbow during attack animation tick of other mob" in xzacts guide does work for more budget capes but stuff gets really messy if u wanna do anything more complicated than that or flick jad too

[round lintel]

I once ate my 4 brews during my first set in one run xd

thats all the brews I bring

46-46-46

tanked, went to the other side

kept tanking

was brewed down I coldnt hit to kill

and lasted like 3 shield runs until it perished

xd

[vestal cosmos]

Four brews only?

[round lintel]

yeah

[vestal cosmos]

And no super restores?

[round lintel]

oh yeah I had restores

Like 6

[vestal cosmos]

What are you bringing? An 8-way mage swap?

[round lintel]

Lmao bp, bowfa (tbow main hand) cuz i was dying to healers trying to hit and run

4 way range

1 stam

[icy relic]

Its kinda hard having more than 4 food for zuk lol

[round lintel]

3 bastions

Nah I was using blood barrages

so I really didnt use any brews

[plush gull]

just use the new eye + eldritch + lb and dont use offensives u can take 25 hard food and do it in 75min without ever having to flick

[icy relic]

Op

[round lintel]

is like in Colo I only bring 3 brews and I really only use like 2-3 doses

45.5k glory (cuz pb is only 23 min)

[icy relic]

My speeds are terrible cuz I did all my clears with ancients and bowfa

But got blessed quiver on the iron

[round lintel]

im 20% on it with 7k charges left on my iron

Havent sent any cuz ive been busy

Then Yama came out

Took me 620 kc

to get full oathplate

80% of my kc was solo

[true talon]

Wonder if im go the entire weekend again without a delv drop 🙁

[winged mantle]

Lock in brother 🫡. Surely soon

[spark bone]

is the slayer update coming out this year? or do we still have to wait for them to gather the feedback they're not taking into consideration

[ember token]

this month

[lone remnant]

you know what it might be with mokha?

Theres maybe a drop modifier that gives you increased chances at a drop, that gets reset when you die, and its being applied cumulatively instead of on a per run basis?

idk I have no other thoughts that could fit

23 deepest delve, he never claims

[round lintel]

gotta be honest

I thought the same

[lone remnant]

There is something that feels off

like really off

[plush gull]

never doing content first month of release after yama

[icy relic]

I think shit's just rare

some people getting giga spooned but I see way too many people at like 1500 no drop

[winged mantle]

My guess at the boot rates
Delves
4- 1/1000
5- 1/850
6- 1/700
7- 1/550
8+ 1/400

[icy relic]

whatever the "cap" rate is at 8+ it's way too low

[round lintel]

Ive seen the opposite, so many people with 2-5 drops before 1k total delves

[tender harness]

the fact poison doesnt clear

the wave 34 kill video is legit

[hasty shard]

moly

4.5m sounds low

[tender harness]

the floor

on W35

[tender harness]

thats delves for you

[hasty shard]

its like 130k avg though

it just looks so low 😭

[fossil epoch]

Surely staff soon

[tender harness]

like poison seems like a hard barrier to prevent deep sends

which is

[hasty shard]

i mean next week you can use orb to remove it

so

[fossil epoch]

It does seem like jagex wanted similar hours for the staff vs bowfa grind. since they are fairly similar in progression.
Im guessing the boots are either same rate (just 1 delve harder to get) or even more hours

[icy relic]

wot

cg is just base 70s no gear needed

[fossil epoch]

didnt say same gear requirement

same hours (to aquire bowfa)

[last onyx]

Can't wait to see the rates, my guess is:
Confliction gauntlets 1/1000
Staff 1/1000
Boots 1/3000

Same drop rate at all levels, this makes sense since it takes time to clear the earlier levels to unlock the ability to obtain them from wave 2, 3 & 4 and so on.

[winged mantle]

that would be grim

[fossil epoch]

would be a 1/428 delves (past d1) to see any unique asuming its just a shared table looking like 3/7, 3/7, 1/7 similar to corp shields

[winged mantle]

if the boots are 1/3k i might stop grinding for them tbh

[fossil epoch]

seems rarer than that ngl

[icy relic]

I think it's like 1/1k to hit the rare table lol

1/3k ea

[last onyx]

I do think the boots deserves to be considered a mega-rare and could have a even rarer drop rate than 1/3000, ''but i'll keep that to myself for the time being''

[hard axle]

1300 delves nothing

High delvers get nothing on god

[fossil epoch]

It do be looking kinda insane how many people havent seen anything at that point or higher

[hard axle]

I just want pet, gp be damned

[hard axle]

Someone earlier mentioned how there’s only 250k+ 8+ clear and if boots are 1/1k, that’s only 250 boots from 8+

[last onyx]

Pet is at 6+ right?

[hard axle]

6 and up ye

[fossil epoch]

Yeh, and im not even sure boots are 1/1k at this point

[hard axle]

But yeah, I really hope the meta is to go as high as you can

rather than 1-7 or god forbid 1-4

[fossil epoch]

I think it will be, as long as you get consistent clears

1-4 still is 75% of waves not having chance of boots

[last onyx]

There's quite few boots traded, i stand with the rates i mentioned :p Would only add up to like 3k boots in-game at this point if it's 1/3000 with the same rate, but could also increase by the level and increasing that number to over 3k boots

[fossil epoch]

17 seconds delve 1 seems insane, but i also dont have a zcb i guess

[last onyx]

Venge tech go brrrrr

Does the staff 1-hit the grubs btw?

[plush gull]

eye? someone on reddit said nox said on twitch that it would but i think they lied

[last onyx]

If it does it would be possible to bring sbs venge+thralls

[hard axle]

Love how the number of kills just plateaus post 6

[last onyx]

haha

[plush gull]

can u tick eat the 1 shot laser or do u need to pneck with pools to veng it

[last onyx]

Havent tried yet

[fossil epoch]

News post says it will from next week

[last onyx]

That's so GOOD

[small anvil]

the boss full heals if it lasers

so its not something you'd venge

[lone remnant]

i think this boss has the shitter coefficient in full force for boot drops

the worse you are at the game better your chance is to get boots

no I will not elaborate

[hasty shard]

yeah sure

[nocturne solstice]

Don't take your dryness out on other people

[lone remnant]

wasnt directed at anyone in particular

[hasty shard]

im just saying i have everything bar pet

[lone remnant]

wanna trade logs

[hasty shard]

is that vlads

[lone remnant]

its mine

[hasty shard]

two rats people with 5 pets now ic

[lone remnant]

mods, you yell at me all the time

[hasty shard]

eye for an eye

osto eye

[hasty shard]

but yeah like

😭

[icy relic]

solid log

deserved

[lone remnant]

what wave u get boots on

everyone around me talked me into not sending 8+ anymore

oh thats someone elses

[hasty shard]

6

[lone remnant]

yeah ive just been resetting on 8

[hasty shard]

i think you just want to push as far as possible for kph

[lone remnant]

idek

might just turn off my computer until drop rates

[fossil epoch]

guy in my clan got boots on 9, but yeh majority gets them closer to 4, since more completions

[icy relic]

I see a lot of 6s

But yeah 7/8 seems like it's fine

Probably very close to max loot potential

[winged mantle]

so far i've gotten all my rare drops at delve 5. 2x cloth and 1x eye of ayak

[true talon]

Glad they created another nightmare

[winged mantle]

This boss feels worse than going for torva

[true talon]

Extreme focus, high chance of death, no base loot to excite you, uniques rarer than normal nightmare, unfair mechanical overlap and bloat. def boss of the year.

It is good but it can be so much better

[winged mantle]

It feels like they haven't listened to all the plethora of feedback on the boss

[true talon]

i dont think they want to admit how bugged it is lol. going by their track record and the pitch of the boss of delving deeper and risking your drops for greater rewards. wave 8 does not appear to be what it should be. whats really odd is after wave 8 the boss loses 50 hp making it easier to delve deeper, you have to deal with venom puddles and thats it, but you can still just bum rush the boss into car an kill it before orb/anything happens. i feel it was designed in away that you do the boss on 8 + an use the unique mechanics such as the melee punish holy water to clear venom. and they probably envisioned people going extremely deep.

And what happened is the boss is extremely bugged, it has no logic and overlaps its attacks, it doesnt know what its doing and the increased attack speed is causing it to just spam shit randomly out of order, and it has phase based logic, but it gets pushed to dps thresholds and just skips over it or confuses whats its meant to do (you see this when he goes from a melee punish to instantly a grub shield) two things i know that are constant is 75% hp grub shield, earth orb always after car or 1 min into the fight. However it released in this state and players actually love the hectic choas that is being created and they just went with it.

[winged mantle]

Nailed it on the head

This is one of the few bosses I will never return to once I get boots. Screw the pet tbh

It doesn't feel good to engage with in its current state

[true talon]

I think the hectic chaos is good, but i do believe there needs to be limits. I actually found something hilarious yesterday by accident, if you run into melee range during orb phase right before he slams, he wont orb you. he will melee you. and then start slamming.

[winged mantle]

Even just making it so the grubs exploding and hitting the boss "resets" it's charge would do it

[true talon]

as in he wont boulder attack you

So theoretically you can stand in melee with prot melee an eat the chip and then get a a free pass on the orb phase, i do need to test this. as i only had it happen. but there is def times he will orb an never boulder attack you and its the freest thing ever lol.

[winged mantle]

Delisious 35's melee through prayer yum yum

[true talon]

i dunno how hard it hits

with prot melee up anyways

[winged mantle]

It's very high

[fossil epoch]

It seems like i always take waaay more dmg if i miss a prayer against mage than ranged. mage often being like 50 dmg on a missed prayer. Is this just small sample size or does mage hit higher?

[winged mantle]

Wiki says they can hit upto 54 🫠

That's actually absurd

[shadow wave]

Seems pretty consistent that mage hits higher yeah

[true talon]

Boss shouldnt even melee, dunno why they locking an entire style out when it has a crush weakness lol

they actually just hate inquistor

[fossil epoch]

i hate inquisitor aswell to be fair

dont want to do nightmare

[winged mantle]

I was actually sad day 1 when I learnt you couldn't really melee it for the fight

[nocturne solstice]

Melee is fine with nhally 👀

Or just attack and step back like you would duke

[winged mantle]

Lol

Or fear a 20 through prayer 👀

[nocturne solstice]

Same as duke

[winged mantle]

Duke telegraphs when to move

This boss doesn't

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah and here you just figure out the timing and its fine or just go nhally and not have to worry but miss out on crush weakness

plus side is now you're super geared up for the chally punish

[winged mantle]

It could have been so so much better

[nocturne solstice]

Well everything can be so much better

reworks and changes have been mentioned in last weeks blog so who knows

improvements do be coming

[winged mantle]

Even if the boss hit you with melee and if praying correctly you don't take damage. Could have made more methods viable then scobow/ tbow

[nocturne solstice]

I think its fine for bosses to have preferred methods. I don't really mind whisperer being mage only or duke being melee only.

[fossil epoch]

Do wonder if its a mistake of me to have been sending it this much, and not waiting till the patch, but who knows

[winged mantle]

I doubt that tbh. They would have done more this past wed

[nocturne solstice]

I dont mind Yama being easier with mage and faster but a bit tougher with melee

[fossil epoch]

Im too deep in to hope that they nerf the rates though, not that i think they will

[nocturne solstice]

The improvements be coming is a factual statement not an assumption btw. They listed in past wed the upcoming changes in the works that they havent finished yet.

[winged mantle]

Oh you mean the list. I thought you meant beyond that

[nocturne solstice]

I mean both, the list is the guaranteed and the part they say "it's not exhaustive" means there's more coming afterwards.

[winged mantle]

I'm hopeful they will buff the rates to be a bit more in line with reason

[winged mantle]

Would have been cool if they had a new potion for this boss that made you imune to it's melee tongue attack if praying melee 👀

[fossil epoch]

i think a lot of people are in that group.
But 2k delves in now, would feel a bit wasted i guess

well atleast the last 1k delves with nothing

[winged mantle]

That's so grim 😢

[true talon]

how you gonna melee it with 300 slash defense lol

[nocturne solstice]

Oathplate

[last onyx]

It's possible to use melee, it's really fast and good actually. Can also be combined with veng+thrall tech at wednesday with Ayak staff, but requires quite a bit of skill to pull off. I'd say this boss has so many different approaches available and isn't locked behind 1 singular method. It's actually a masterpiece beyond anything the more i look into it and learn for every kc now.

[nocturne solstice]

I encourage you to give it a try first

[last onyx]

I already have

[nocturne solstice]

Not you

[last onyx]

oh :p

[nocturne solstice]

[last onyx]

I'm actually really impressed by Jagex by how many different approaches to inventory setups we can use for Delve, a fun fact i discovered is that melee punish is even cancelled by veng. ; ) Small details like that is huge for player creation and strategies.

I haven't tried yet, but if venge works in car phase against his ''smash attack'' it could be enough incentive for players to take a hit to drastically increase the chance for a 1-down.

or two*

[winged mantle]

When the ayak can 1 shot grubs so you don't need to be on Arceus we may see it

[last onyx]

Yepp, i'm really looking forward to wednesday!

I do hope they make a chance so that you stop attacking when he does melee punish

[frail bough]

Why is it when I claim and leave that it says im going to discard loot despite me saying that I'm going to claim it? If I didn't have bank slots or something I'd get it but this feel so silly.

[minor whale]

Are you clicking "leave" before you bank/withdraw the loot? That's the only time that prompt shows up for me

[true talon]

my biggest gripe is how the encounter is focused on dps skipping everything that is basically difficult. as longer you go on the more venom that gets placed and less room you have. so you want to push into car asap and then kill in car, if you have to do orb he starts bleeding and then does another grub phase.

[last onyx]

The encounter focuses on player creation to utilise inventory setups and strategies, there can be less venom on the ground if you use 5t weapons and so on and leave thralls in the bank. 1 Down is at 8+ is a bit tough unless you have max gear but that doesn't really require more than a t-bow and void. Could use d-knifes with buckler to easily get a 1-down so it doesn't really require too much. 1-Down can also be secured by waiting for a melee punish and using Crystal Halberd with a couple of switiches to get a deep proc or ZCB if no melee punish.

[true talon]

Doesnt matter, the encounter is encouraging you to get a 1 down, utilizing jank mechanics which are extremely rng heavy and clearly not working. if im delving to say 50 levels and my 49 levels were all melee punishes, which produced tons of acid, compared to the guy who got 5 autos in a row, pushed to car and then killed boss and had a clean floor, lets say my 49 levels also spawned triple melee, while the other guy got triple range. its just massive layers of jank and rng. but people so blinded by this that they think its difficult, yea its difficult, because it doesnt work properly lol.

[minor whale]

Help help my boss has too many mechanics please someone get rid of the rng
People enjoy the boss because it's different every time and sometimes it's insanely hard and sometimes it's smooth sailing
Pushing deeper delves is going to average out your rng, which is what most records are doing anyway

[true talon]

Mechanical bloat and overload while having no consistency on what its doing or going to do, only factors we know is 75% grub shield, into car, into orb, back into grub (this might be a bug) as he throws up a melee punish after orb but then phases into grub for some reason. sometimes he throws chain boulders, sometimes he basic attacks you 5 times in a row.

[jovial sentinel]

Rng can be fine with bosses.

But when it comes to enrage and scaling difficulty, the annoyance in rng is magnified

If rng pushes you out of a 1 and done, you lose the boss and whatever.

If its in a streak/enrage, you lost your streak, and now have to push lower again. And those at the top are likely more lucky than more skilled

[true talon]

its not being utilized as a push to your limit boss to go deep as you can with high risk vs reward

[jovial sentinel]

Not saying the top arnt the most skilled, but no1 will take a while to even out rng, and most of it will end up fishing for it.

I dont know the fight that well though, purely commenting on rng here.

[minor whale]

The "rng" aspect is that he's got a set hp threshold to do a specific series of mechanics, and after they're done, he freestyles until dead. If you happen to get unlucky he'll do repeated hard mechanics in a row and it's a chore to deal with, but entirely doable.

[jovial sentinel]

Yeah, its doable, and generally fine.

[minor whale]

The thing stopping lower delves at this point from everyone doing lower delves is just fatigue of doing 34 waves in a row without making any of the "oops you now die" mistakes

[jovial sentinel]

It only matters because of the enrage mechanic

If you could start at any difficulty and there were no scaling rewards/achievement, it wouldnt matter.

[minor whale]

Like, 34 delves deep is not someone getting lucky 26 times in a row. They've pretty much mastered the mechanics and you'll eventually run out of supplies even if perfect play

Most people aren't capable of moving + 1t flicking 3 prayers + attacking boss without losing either prayer or hp, and something has to run out

And 34 is after they patched the rock block

[final heron]

Any chances the Mokhaiotl cloth will be able to be broken down or traded in for demon tears in the future? I'm probably a spoon but uim with multiple cloths here.

[ember token]

based on the araxyte fang, probably not

but I suppose the difference here is that there is an item for it to break down into that makes sense unlike the araxyte fang

[final heron]

kinda my hope, cba getting all the materials to make a 2nd pair to just drop to main. Haven't seen much talk about it so I thought I'd drop it here just in case.

[true talon]

Ahh the 0 tick melee after flicking mage range mage mage range mage and stopping the melee punish 🙁

[jovial sentinel]

This i dont contest. Im not saying people getting that far because they are lucky. What im saying is the difference between going from 30s to carrying that to 100s is luck. We're talking only very skilled players here.

[hard axle]

Nah, if ur saying orb is rng, you’re being dumb as fuck.

They literally timed it out exactly when you need to proc

It’s down to a literal science

[hard axle]

Use hally if you can’t click fast enough

scythe you need to click as soon as/same tick as first rock explodes, then click off on the 3rd prayer/pause tick

or path 1 tile away while he’s charging and then attack on the pause tick in between boulders

[hard axle]

Yeah like, the only big rng aspect is if the blood rags your North and East Side at 6+, which we can address by having them clear the arena every 6 waves imo.

Everything else is player issue. Orb is incredibly generous because if you choose a super far spawn (as you should), you can proc like 8 ticks early and still soak up all of the earthquake duration.

Nonstop Double boulders can be annoying and could have a cooldown, but the shrapnel are more rng then the rocks themselves

[true talon]

Lol i like how much they hype up the content of varl 3 besides delves

[kind sail]

I would say there's some deal of rng to it, but not like a crazy amount

if your tbow is constantly noodling on car phase, that's a lot of multiple shield phases

not to mention the strat for pbs is actually bp and not zcb, missing a lot of guaranteed damage

also beginning waves with 2-3x melee punish phases with 3x worms is incredibly bad rng

[jovial sentinel]

Im not saying anything is rng, just the presence of rng at all in streak encounters. I dont really know the fight.

Not saying current is good or bad, just that i get why rng would make it feel horrible, if theres too much. But its fine generally.

[kind sail]

skill basically counteracts all of the rng though, it's more about the supplies used when bad rng happens

mostly prayer since theres atleast 0-2 times per wave 8+ where you just can't 1t flick

not to mention the rng of getting that 2 auto same tick attack bug after melee punishes, but I think there might be a way to mitigate that with melee punish timings

[hard axle]

You’re playing the wrong game then because all fights are like this and the shorter the fight, the more rng it is.

Short of them making a piece of content where you always max hit/no accuracy check and then double or triple the bosses HP to compensate, that’s the only time you won’t have rng imo.

If you complain about rng in damage, but then also hate team content, that’s contradictory as heck because rng is neutralized the more people are hitting.

[hard axle]

The majority of damage I take during w8+ is boulder shrapnel damage but that’s because I am incredibly lazy and don’t like pathing to a safe tile

As for the multiple boulder + melee punish after car, it is infuriating, but it is dealable. Synq would have proc’d shield phase like 4 times if he just brought a multi hit weapon iirc

Definitely on the upper level of mechanical difficulty/bullshittery, but solvable.

[kind sail]

yeah on the second boulder im always standing in that shit but with a bp its completely negligible. I haven't actually seen the run, more talking from experience and just how the boss works in general, but Ill go watch it at some point soon