game-update

[gaunt kestrel]

idr ngl

i just assumed deeper into summer

[frail bough]

definitely wasnt late june

pretty sure it was autumn or something

[wispy current]

Na summer for sure

[quiet plank]

Its summer

[wispy current]

They def said summer

[viscid cipher]

Wonder if there gonna be upgrade for harm orb and other nightmare orbs

[rain fulcrum]

bro if they add an equivalent of ward for orbs that will so so dogshit

[tacit pendant]

Its mid july iirc

[gaunt kestrel]

i think the item needs to be relevant before an upgrade can be discussed

[thick beacon]

i wish they would just add a way to use thralls with standard spells like just charge a harm with firespells

but thralls arguement is always a big stain that makes it hard imo

[gaunt kestrel]

give it like 1 meaningful piece of content it dumpsters shadow in by like 10% and it'll be useful and hold value

[hard axle]

My 6:30 pb (iirc) is 4 way harm

[gaunt kestrel]

might need to be more cause thrall and double dc

[rain fulcrum]

i don thave a harm but dont want to have to bring giga swaps for shadow

[gaunt kestrel]

[rain fulcrum]

and the sang heals r kinda cnice

[hard axle]

I’m an actual terrorist when it comes to dumb strats

[gaunt kestrel]

any muspah freezers

[hard axle]

That’s what I’m known for in the upper community

[thick beacon]

oh ye double dc ye im very anti standard book in general

[hard axle]

Is it wild that I considered this

Just so I don’t have to step back

[gaunt kestrel]

(i have done it before)

[thick beacon]

cuz i just dont think its good even with ele weaknesses

[gaunt kestrel]

but one time i missed like 4 freezes in max and then i just cba

[tacit pendant]

Harm might actually just be bis mage for pures at most places. Itll bw good at whisperer for sure

[hard axle]

I still think Muspah should be exceptionally weak to Magic and melee

[gaunt kestrel]

[hard axle]

[rain fulcrum]

harm is great

its for splashing on your alt

[hard axle]

Why is range weak to range

[gaunt kestrel]

melee is also crazy tank

would be pog if they tuned muspah a bit

[viscid cipher]

Still can’t beat shadow imo on whisper

[gaunt kestrel]

but eh

ancient essence already dead content

[rain fulcrum]

i think the melee phase should b weak to melee from a gameplay perspective

[hard axle]

This is what I mean

There should be 3-5 spots where harm outright beats shadow

and it wouldn’t be a problem

because it’s very dependent on elemental weakness

[rain fulcrum]

dw

harm will be bis on delve

invest inharm

[viscid cipher]

I think give harm staff extra elemental weakness

[hard axle]

They will slap on 200% for ancient warriors, but nothing else

[hard axle]

Bought 80

[quiet plank]

Watch the new wand from delve crash as hard as oathplate

[gaunt kestrel]

harm and inq bis!

[quiet plank]

And be BIS there

[gaunt kestrel]

and then its literally phosani again

[viscid cipher]

In your wish, none of high level boss got over 50% elemental weakness

[gaunt kestrel]

it'll be tunable

if they care about harm they will consider it

if they dont its stlil harm is ice demon stick

[tacit pendant]

Harm is very close to shadow at whisperer with 60% earth weakness. And confliction gloves might close the gap?

Not sure how her attacks make you lose ticks with shadow vs harm. Been a long time since i fought her

[meager flame]

seems a little crazy honestly though

[hard axle]

Earth???

That’s so…

[tacit pendant]

Yes

[hard axle]

Odd

[meager flame]

like even if that were bis

thats an incredible amount of stuff to assemble exodia just to kill the whisperer

[tacit pendant]

Mains have entered the chat

[meager flame]

for what would be like .2 dps

[gaunt kestrel]

the thing for harm is

they have to give enough incentive to override thrall + 2x dc

[thick beacon]

is it confirmed? i havint looked into it (but i assumed bracelet was better for non shadow then shadow)

cuz shadow gets buffed to

[tacit pendant]

Yes its on the spreadsheet

Shadow does get buffed tho

[meager flame]

it has to overtake by enough to beat shadow and thralls

unless you're saying its that close already

[thick beacon]

hm increase is it roughly bracelet for non shadow users?

[viscid cipher]

Well there is new wand coming so

Harm staff will be useless again

[tacit pendant]

So it wont be better unless whisperer makes shadow lose a bunch of ticks (idt it does)

[gaunt kestrel]

well the new wand will be worse than the shadow

[tacit pendant]

Im just saying itll be very close

[gaunt kestrel]

so harm relevancy is still absolutely tunable given jagex cares enough

[meager flame]

they're just stuck in limbo with it

[viscid cipher]

From what I see on wiki, it look op wand

[meager flame]

they're still experimenting with elemental weaknesses to begin with

[tacit pendant]

And on that note, more people potting pnm and kill times going way down means you get near shadow dps at quite a few relevant places like olm, kree, and whisperer for a third of the gp

[meager flame]

they also probably dont exactly want to come under fire for pnm rates

[tacit pendant]

Harm not being good at toa is the kicker tbh

[meager flame]

which they probably will the day harm becomes like

the real meta for stuff people actually care about

[last onyx]

when is the summer sweep coming?

release date?

[hard axle]

But in exchange

[gaunt kestrel]

nothing rn

[hard axle]

You get this

https://tenor.com/view/yugioh-exodia-gif-7604005

(How I wish volatile spec was like)

[tacit pendant]

Yeah, removing p1 was a good start. But probably not enough. All this being said harm being close to shadow matters way less when eye of ayak does the same thing while also having thralls

[gaunt kestrel]

i think its enough ngl

[tacit pendant]

Harm and eye will be two "mage bowfas"

[gaunt kestrel]

kills in max with minimal tickloss should be just shy of 7mins

so -1 phase will be somewhere in the 5:30 zone

It's a pretty hefty kph buff

[tacit pendant]

Max also getting slightly stronger. Im excited I really like pnm her killtime is a little exhausting, could be a pet grind for me this fall

[noble loom]

I think the biggest problem is that OSRS lacks a taunt, but I think the glyph system from yama could be expounded upon to make it relevant. One of each combat style glyph that gives you a buff for that style (melee glyph makes your melee style more affective, etc) and couple it with the melee glyph making the boss aggro whoever has that buff. Effectively creating a taunt within the ecounter.

You could still make it have high health and low def, but make defensive gear matter.

[gaunt kestrel]

Ya it'll be close to solo yama times

After the phase removal

Well, for like avg rng donofly time I guess

Not like 3t ember time

Or at least substantially closer (to Yama)

[obsidian venture]

I will say, p3 yama for the contracts is good

[pseudo seal]

Hi people, anyone noticed any issue with the expeditious bracelet after the updates? 2x tasks in a row where it hasn't triggered

[hard axle]

I am a full sensory clouding addict now

We fiend for the sensory clouding fight

[ionic tartan]

Taunt kind of already exists in OSRS. Some bosses will look at your defenses (nex) or hp (ba-ba) to determine who to target first, and some bosses just always target the first player (bandos).

The hard part is probably designing the dynamics of tank+dps, instead of tank+dps just becoming a simpler fight.

[compact flicker]

Did you enchant them? Lol

[pseudo seal]

yes yes haha 😄

[compact flicker]

Just checking :^)

[pseudo seal]

15x steel dragons and 50 rune dragons = not triggered once

[meager flame]

i mean ultimately the reason tanking is weird in osrs at least in terms of getting people to actually want to wear justi and items like that

and by weird i mean something people would just dislike a lot

is because for you to sit there and say i need more defense

the boss has to be unavoidably railing you

and thats like exactly what people complain about

wanting to take 0 damage if they play perfectly etc

its why i want them to just rework justi to be something osrs players actually want to use

instead of adding bosses that make you want to wear justi

i guess you could do something like change how the game works to make defense bonuses give you dps stats or something on some bosses but that's kind of defeating the point

[rain fulcrum]

anything that does enough damage to make u want justi is still gonna make u ccry when ur wearing justi

[tacit pendant]

Low chip damage that heals boss, aka vard, accomplishes this decently.

Another issue is that torva has the same def stats, so justi really only has the set effect going for it

[noble loom]

kind of, but not really. when its something you're actively doing as apart of the encounter you can build mechanics around it. add a stacking debuff where you have to swap styles, make it so that the longer you have the buff the more resistent to that style from a specific character the boss becomes, etc.

I'm just saying, I don't think making an encounter where something like that is relevant is that far out of the bounds of whats already in game as implied.

[austere mulch]

There was a surprisingly good Reddit post of changing justi to give flat amor instead of the current reduction

[rain fulcrum]

the problem with giving it flat armor is it may even make it too strong in some situations (vard)

[hard axle]

Needs the dinhs treatment and give some damage on top of that

[rain fulcrum]

honestly i think give it bandos tier strength

[left wolf]

Justi still bis for inferno mechanic avoidance?

[rain fulcrum]

i dont see the problem when perilous moons gear is allowed to have bandos tier str

[rain fulcrum]

bis for being a monkey, sure

[meager flame]

i feel like they should just redesign justi to not be tank gear

[night apex]

its a full setr from the "hardest" raid it should be allowed to be busted

[meager flame]

just make justi the stab set or some nonsense like that

[night apex]

i mean masori and anc are bis by far

[austere mulch]

This works too

But changing its identity at this point prob gonna be negative feedback

[meager flame]

its just incredibly weird that an entire set of gear from a raid is like

[austere mulch]

Should’ve been stab set from the start

[meager flame]

borderline totally useless

they picked the wrong wrong niche for a raid set

[vivid ruin]

Plea jagex make justi useful

[noble loom]

wait until my offer in the GE finishes buying, then make it useful

🙂

[austere mulch]

Genuinely think that flat armor suggestion is the best that I’ve seen

[thick beacon]

🤝 loved that fight

even though it brickwalled fk out of me

[rain fulcrum]

i mean if u justj give it some str bonus so ur not losing giga max hits for choosing defense over torva or oath

oath gets giga slash acc but gets to keep bandos tier str

I also am not sure how inferno cheese shitters will feel about flat armor does it nerf it for that

[tacit pendant]

If the damage reduction worked floor damage that would also be a big help

[hard axle]

I redid it on alt

And only took 9 attempts

Bloodied blows 3 attempts

[tacit pendant]

This breaks pyramid plunder, how will we ever recover??

[still orbit]

Gold price

[austere mulch]

Anytime the dmg you take would’ve been under 36, the flat armor suggestion is better

[still orbit]

1 million price

[austere mulch]

So for pray mage run south copers, it’d be better

But in places where you also get chip damage, it rewards good prayer flicking if the chip is 5 or less

So like, you can get a situation with future content where we get super duper rancour str necklace and you can choose to go Torva + blood fury or Justi + boom pow pow necklace to manage the chip

Like, if the chip is 2-5dmg every 5t or so

Then flat amour Justi would reduce to 0 for free sustain, assuming good prayer flicking

And anything else you’d have to rely on fury or pots

[rain fulcrum]

i dno tknow if this is true.

the goal is to not die, not to take less dmg

meaning in situations where flat is better, you already lived anyway since you can eat those hits

i guess since there are multiple things on u thats an oversimplification

but its not obvious to me which one is actually better

[austere mulch]

Range max hit is 46, so you’re taking less damage way more often than not

And when it rolls 37-46, you’re taking like an additional 1

[rain fulcrum]

i guess its always better on blobs too

ok so the effect is significantly stronger against basically everything then

that sounds a little overtuned to me but justi does kinda deserve it after all this time

[austere mulch]

Would be bad on mages but… wwd if taking mages in justi LOL

[rain fulcrum]

idk man ive seen peoplle in colo run across in justi praying melee or range

[austere mulch]

In-game Darwinism

[rain fulcrum]

like wheen the reaction is run to the other pillar but dont think to fix ur prayer

[gaunt kestrel]

the blue owl technology

slap on the ol justi dinhs and run a marathon

[rain fulcrum]

that shit honestly works too well in colo

[lofty edge]

In todays summer sweep up post they mentioned equiped axes being able to finish off growthlings, i wonder if they could make battleaxes oneshot them similar to ratbane weapons at scurrius

[raw sparrow]

does anyone here actually know in what way they updated gout tuber to make the rate better at higher levels? does it not roll on unsuccessful wc rolls anymore? should I now try to get more successful rolls? bascially, should I still use bronze axe on dense jungle or shoujld I use dragon axe on light?

[solar gale]

Can we get a "soft" memory for lockslots from gravestones, aka when an item enters our inventory from a gravestone if it was previously in a specific locked slot in the inventory it would to back there

[tacit pendant]

Soulreaper axe stonks to the moon

TM, flat armor on justi would be cool if we were keeping like 5 chip damage on baba, but uhhhh, no further changes

Tbh though even like 3 flat armor, 1 per piece, would have its place in the game

[raw sparrow]

idk, i feel like flat armour can go quite wrong easily because you don't consider all uses. 3 flat armour would mean that any fight that does fast low damage hits is just completely free

like, you're talking about it in the context of baba. but there are so many other uses where it would have significantly more impact

3 flat armour is comparable to 6 off of the max hit. so, let's say something that hits quite fast but not very accurate like thermy which has a max hit of 8, while it would still roll up to 5, the dps it does would be equal to a max hit of 2 without flat armour

thermy is just the first example that comes to mind, I am aware thermy is very free with the freeze and all. but with the player having 3 flat armour, thermy would basically be afkable in melee. and surely there are other current or future bosses that would be heavily affected

[gaunt kestrel]

actually off the rip idk if there is "fast low damage" apart from thermy

[raw sparrow]

maybe nothing quite as clearl, but just generally, it would affect that sort of bosses a lot more

my main point is, it's easy to just think of baba and find a solution for baba, which then wrecks metas in other places

the issue is that if you implement something like flat armour to players, you have to consider a hell of a lot of stuff

[tacit pendant]

Scarab swarms at PP would be free. But that only effects bots and new ironmen

But yes, there is so much of the game that has to be looked at

[raw sparrow]

yea i mean for all sorts of non bossing, it would be massive for sure

[tacit pendant]

Need to go back in time and get flat armor in game much earlier so that content could have been designed with it in mind

[raw sparrow]

but i feel like it also limits future options for boss design and might affect very different bosses than the ones you're trying to solve here

[gaunt kestrel]

just for the thermy example imo thermy is bad design so i would be pro-flat armor in this specific example

not like people meleeing aren't doing stepunders already w redemp method

[tacit pendant]

Not to mention. Any multi areas where lots of small mobs are ganking you, all of a sudden you dont need to pray at all

But yeah justi screwing venator bow and bursting does kind of solve this

As you dont have many aoe melee options

[raw sparrow]

yea, I do think thermy is bad design but I just used thermy to show how massive the difference can be

I feel like a lot of people don't fully realise that flat armour is essentially a reduction of twice as much from the max hit of the attacker, when it comes to dps calculation. a reduction of the max hit by 6 is a ton

[tacit pendant]

It would only need 1 flat armor per piece to become very strong a lot of weird places

[gaunt kestrel]

it would also depend on how much flat armor value they'd assign to justi if they were to pursue that method

but at the current moment its probably way more of a hassle to pursue

[raw sparrow]

yea, that's why i'm talking about a max hit reduction of 6. because that is, dps wise, what you get with 1 flat armour for 3 pieces

[gaunt kestrel]

though i think it would be definitely interesting

[gaunt kestrel]

well 3 flat armor is a reduction of 3, no?

[raw sparrow]

like, what i'm talking about is with just 1 flat armour per piece. that's still equal to a 6 max hit reduction dps wise.

[raw sparrow]

no because flat armour is straight reduction/boost

rolls that would do 1-3 damage do 0 instead

rolls that would do 4+ do 3 less

it functionally comes to about twice as much effect as a max hit change

which is why naguas are such crazy xp

[tacit pendant]

Flat armor also nerfs min hit

[raw sparrow]

yea

[tacit pendant]

Its not exatly x2 if an npc has a low enough max hit

Because you cant go under 0, but you are generally speaking spot on

[raw sparrow]

yes, that's true

[frail nebula]

Positive flat armor is also disproportionately bad for the fang, interestingly enough

since you can lose out on the benefit of a raised minimum hit

and then you're left with only the reduced max hit

[tacit pendant]

All this being said, a 1 flat armor on justi per piece is INTERESTING, and may be worth the trouble of fixing old content around it?

Flat armor in general, negative or positive is a great lever to pull in content and rewards design

Like with the current sweep up changes, blowpipe is going to go nuclear at nex mages. Less worth bringing tbow

[frail nebula]

I just want them to do something with justy armor

[hard axle]

Justi is fine where it’s percentage is IF it actually worked in all sources

[frail nebula]

Flat armor is an interesting bonus

[hard axle]

the problem isn’t lack of flat armor

[frail nebula]

As would be the option to combine it with inq armor for a tanky crush power armor set

IMO

[raw sparrow]

yea

[hard axle]

But rather shit like Yama meteor not being reduced

[raw sparrow]

the isse with percentage reduction is rounding but in general it's the less problematic feature for wider game balance

[frail nebula]

Yeah it never applies when it would actually matter

[hard axle]

Too much damage sources isn’t reduced

[tacit pendant]

Combining with justi through compenent scape does feel like killing two birds with one stone in a nice way

[hard axle]

Dinhs only saw pvm use after they gave it a dps/strength bonus

Hence why justi should have a similar change

[frail nebula]

combining it with justy would give it more value IMO

[tacit pendant]

Dinhs spec was made useless by goading pot

[frail nebula]

like look at how much value armadyl armor has

when all it's used for is giving masori defensive buffs

[tacit pendant]

15% or whatever damage reduction, and buffs crush 😍

Actual tank vibes

[frail nebula]

plus inq armor is literally a justy set in lore

you should be able to mix and match pieces to make a better set

[hard axle]

Please

That would be good

[gaunt kestrel]

surely with blood moon rises

[hard axle]

Torva + oath when

[gaunt kestrel]

restored inq we prayge

[frail nebula]

Justiciar seems like one of those weird raid drops where they're insistent on it being bad

[gaunt kestrel]

ahaha

[frail nebula]

Like the ward from toa

where they literally joke in the update blog about it being bad lol

[gaunt kestrel]

the ward from toa is quite good actually

(not after mage rebalance)

[hard axle]

https://tenor.com/view/yugioh-cat-sniff-where-polymerization-gif-4558170948965084154

[frail nebula]

It's a rare raid reward and it's worse than a mage's book from mta

that's pretty damn bad

[gaunt kestrel]

well

thats cause they buffed mage book

and they left ward in the shitter

[hard axle]

Reminder Ward/ward f could be 5/10 and no metas would be shook

[frail nebula]

tbh I think they could just significantly buff the accuracy on both

one-handed mage options are severely lacking in accuracy as it is

and the offhand slot is a very safe place to put more

since it won't buff the shadow

[gaunt kestrel]

yea i wish they gave ward the reroll passive ngl

cause that would solidify it as 1h only

instead of gauntlets having the passive only apply to 1h

thats my hot take though

[frail nebula]

gauntlets only applying to 1h is really just a weird way to do it tbh

I get why they don't want it to apply to the shadow

[tacit pendant]

Yeah the current passive is like weird exception-scape

[frail nebula]

but it's still just weird

[gaunt kestrel]

yea ward is like the perfect place for it

but ik people dont care about that

or give gauntlets that min hit stuff

[tacit pendant]

It working with shadow is actually not even that big of a deal, as accuracy was never a concern for shadow as is

[gaunt kestrel]

ye

[frail nebula]

also why tf is the ward the 3rd highest alch in the entire game

[gaunt kestrel]

i have splashed at exceptionally inopportune moments with the shadow though

[frail nebula]

3m high alch lol

third only to the fortified ward and shadow

[gaunt kestrel]

(cause they expected it to be the peg crystal)

[frail nebula]

yeahhhhhh

[tacit pendant]

Skill issue probably

[frail nebula]

and it is

[gaunt kestrel]

well

i will always remember

"we will monitor the rarity of the ward so that it doesnt become another pegasian crystal"

and then the only think they looked at was away

[tacit pendant]

Similar vibe to cant have harm be too good

Corp as a hard req to relevant items is rough

[austere mulch]

I think that’s a fine niche to hold tbh. Even with 5 flat, it’d still be more efficient to use Torva and redemption, especially with redx and prayer renewal

Not saying those exact numbers, wasn’t even my suggestion (just found on Reddit), but as a concept, it works well imo

Would give Justi use cases in some current and also future content outside of a very technical use case over bandos at vard bc the healing mechanic

The main concern would be I wouldn’t want that to incentivize Jagex to release content with an annoying amount of chip damage intentionally to give Justi some use lol

[austere mulch]

Still not too late to give ward 2min damage on roll 😭

[gaunt kestrel]

yea it would be nice
but if they were they should just swap the effects

obv gaunts with 2 minhit would be beneficial to shadow vs simply buffing 1h

but i feel like the 1h exception of gaunts is a little silly

and it would make more sense for it to be on the ward

[austere mulch]

Also 75% of toa being done solo is crazy for a raid 🥶 raids should be end game team content

[tacit pendant]

Hot take the gauntlets could just not have a passive effect. The whole point was to close a gap. And they did that with eye

[craggy wind]

A lot of people do solo COX too though.

[austere mulch]

That’s true, yeah. Not by design though

But also curious what those numbers look like

I think 40-60% is prob pretty healthy

[craggy wind]

Actually, I know several people that exclusively solo lol

[tacit pendant]

The idea of an effect on necklace/gloves to close a gap was made before eye was pitched.

[craggy wind]

I have no idea on a numbers standpoint, but I’m sure it’s high

I don’t think TOA was by design with solo strictly in mind either though tbf.

[austere mulch]

Before they changed it to not work with shadow, we were gonna splash on verzik during shield with Torva to nearly guarantee the shadow hit for red skip lol

[gaunt kestrel]

yea for reggie chambers i exclusively solo

the content is just a lot more interesting that way

i'd be curious to see the same data we got for toa for the other raids ngl

[craggy wind]

Without a form of matchmaking, solo content is just way more convenient

[austere mulch]

Nah wasn’t designed strictly with solo in mind idt, but it was certainly designed to be approachable solo

Where cox wasn’t really, players just got better and so did gear

[gaunt kestrel]

yea cox solo took some jank

which is what is special about it

[austere mulch]

It’s just really hard to design something that you want players to be able to engage with efficiently as a solo player without sacrificing team aspects

[rain fulcrum]

Yeah it's a huge shame for 1 big team update we get every 3-4 years to be solo

[tacit pendant]

Toa being soloable feels p intentional to me. The whole raid you could 1 for 1 input the exact same thing as your team, which isnt really true of cox and tob

[austere mulch]

Efficiently as in completing the content, not necessarily drop rates

[rain fulcrum]

It's definitely intentional

Just like they intentionally gave it stupid fucking high defense

[austere mulch]

Seems with Yama they just tried to compensate with drop mechanics to make duo more “efficient”

[hard axle]

It is intentional, but the drop rates were overtuned

[tacit pendant]

Well yama has horn, making duos meta

[hard axle]

You have no idea how happy I am to have actual confirmation that teams were not the problem at toa lol

[rain fulcrum]

Duo being meta isn't really the same thing as like

The thing actually being duo content

[tacit pendant]

I like the chaos of teams at toa

[hard axle]

It’s like saying solo tobbers are pulling too many uniques

[rain fulcrum]

Solo tob has a higher overall purple rate than any other scale because you cannot die so you always get the full 1/9

[hard axle]

Naturally, the team size that the content is designed for should be pulling the most uniques, which solo toa was for

[rain fulcrum]

Nerf solo tob

[tacit pendant]

To be fair if 80% are solos and 10% are 8 mans, thats still 8 "kc" being done in the same time

It depends on how they are defining "completions"

Is this just wardens being killed, or kc

But clearly solos are a much larger factor than some people thought

[austere mulch]

Would’ve been nice to so invo breakdown by solo vs team

To get a better grasp on uniques brought in by scale

[vernal valve]

yeah those stats were by far the best part of the blog lmao

[austere mulch]

Bc I’d be inclined to believe majority of like, 540s are prob done solo

[vernal valve]

so many people confidently stating shit like "Actually, TOA drops are primarily coming in from people running 254 Invo in 3.14 mans using Red X Zebak"

now there's an actual source to let them know they're full of it

[austere mulch]

Also new Keris of Iron Catering is funny to me

[hasty shard]

why isnt the blue keris just this

like

whuh

[vernal valve]

yeah blue keris literally already exists lmao

[tacit pendant]

Its kind of weird to make a new keris at all

When you can crossbow/bowfa baba and akkha

And blue on keph

Amd now u get to bowfa butterfly akkha, so it reeeeeally doesnt matter if no fang for akkha

[austere mulch]

Big bowfa probably fuming

[tacit pendant]

And bowfa rips through baba pre fang

So like.... i guess a W for irons dry at cg

[hard axle]

Absolutely. Not saying the data is totally infallible because Yama kc in duo is counted twice iirc

it does provide an upper limit though

For example if 8 man adds 8 kc each clear and that’s still only 10% of teams, it means it might be 0.8% of people do non-duo teams

[tacit pendant]

It does. 8 mans even if they were dominant in bringing in purples, was never a problem to me. Im not a fan of soloscape

[hard axle]

It’s fantastic to have this data

[tacit pendant]

It is

Bigggggg data fan

[vernal valve]

i honestly wish they'd give data so much more often tbh

[gaunt kestrel]

they'd probably brick it by accident and the micro fang would work outside the raid

[tacit pendant]

I remember a lot of people also harping that 150s shouldnt drop purples because it was a "problem" and being botted. Now i can easily say no its only 1%

[gaunt kestrel]

bro

[vernal valve]

it's so frequent the community hyperfixates on specific "problems" that can be dismissed offhand by Jagex just providing data

[gaunt kestrel]

idk why they grayed out the items on the invo board

only to have it be absolutely meaningless

and you be able to pull purples regardless in any invo

[gleaming horizon]

Random thought from sweep up blog, but

Does halberds hitting flying enemies include Dawn? Because damn do I hope so

[vernal valve]

if we're being real this was always just cope from people really mad about the occasional turbo-shadow spoon post, lmao

[tacit pendant]

I wonder if they will grey out fang for 500s on the ui

[marsh hedge]

idts cause dawn is immune to non range arent they

like u cant magic?

[vernal valve]

yeah

i think so

[gaunt kestrel]

you're still eligible for fang/lb at 500

[gleaming horizon]

Ah, yeah? Thought it was just “melee can’t reach”

[gaunt kestrel]

unless im reading brickwalled

its just they get rates severely reduced right?

[tacit pendant]

Your also eligible for shadow at 100

[vernal valve]

actually dawn isn't immune to magic, just resistant

[gaunt kestrel]

yea the board greying out is dumb

i dont expect them to even remember that exists

[tacit pendant]

Yeah they wont remember

Has it been a long enough time period that i get to ask for tradeable granite dust again?

Or are we reworking cannonballs entirely with sailing?

[pearl patio]

I tweeted that wasn’t an issue at all and the real problem was the 400+ grinders shitting out purples and people lost their mind

[hard axle]

23% uniques coming from 300- and is 47% of the toa playerbase is insane ngl

[pearl patio]

I will never forgive acoldone and aatykon for what they did to toa rates

[hard axle]

Given how easy 300- is

Nah, if you’re gonna get pissed at aatykon for a reason, it’s the fact he and others beta tested this and didn’t have a problem with toa that wasn’t materially changed

[tacit pendant]

Oh man bowfa billys gonna have to learn the awkward square butterfly for 4t 🤢

[hard axle]

Idk about you guys, but beta testing should be finding bugs and bad design

[hasty shard]

which is why we should remove contracts

because they weren't

[tacit pendant]

Imagine jagex playtesting bosses for more than 1 hour on a random afternoon

[hasty shard]

😌

[small anvil]

Play testers aren't going to catch that much really. Like how many runs did they do

When you bring in outside people

[pearl patio]

I mean they could catch that 3/5 contracts were bugged

[small anvil]

Yeah that's bugs, but like scaling is something you'll feel not the first time

[pearl patio]

Reminder boaty is responsible for the blood spawns at maiden

[small anvil]

When you're playing something for the first time you don't feel as bad for the fight being a slog cuz you're not used to the content yet

[pearl patio]

Ya that’s why I don’t think player testing really does anything for seeing if content will be fun

It can at least gauge if it’s mega too easy or actually broken

[small anvil]

Gnome released the vid on oath contracts

[tacit pendant]

Pay a GM to playtest a boss until they are on rate for all drops

[pearl patio]

The jmods should block gnome

Or do the opposite of what he says

And the game would be exponentially better

[small anvil]

The content would need to be in its finished form for a long time then mic

[hard axle]

Reason why I like cold one is that he’s relatively honest when it comes to calling out bad shit

[tacit pendant]

Usually in game dev, you have the finished product several weeks before release. But uh that isnt the case here so

[small anvil]

Jagex acts like an indie company tbh

[pearl patio]

They didn’t even have the contracts designed until week of lol

Flying by the seat of their pants

[tacit pendant]

Im hoping absorbing the zanaris crew will help (it wont)

[pearl patio]

Delayed for a week to get balancing right = we haven’t designed them yet

[small anvil]

That was probably more technical

Than game design

It might help with the spaghetti and servers

But won't be game design/ play testing

[tacit pendant]

Def was game design, when they had to change stats

Changing hp of a boss takes 5 mins top

[small anvil]

The promise of zanaris was to get players to be able to do the creative work for them lol

It was about giving tools that people could use

That don't break the server

They kept talking about parameters you could change

[tacit pendant]

I misunderstood you my b

[small anvil]

Yeah I basically meant it was more engineers less creatives probably

[tacit pendant]

Youre talkin zanaris, i thought you were talking yama delays being technical related

[small anvil]

Oh, yeah I meant the zanaris team absorption

[pearl patio]

Ya zanaris team will probably work on engine stuff id guess

[tacit pendant]

Tbh the technical side of things probably wasnt an issue with zanaris. Its like the realistic world of moderating servers, not killing main game, monetization, customer service. The business side of zanaris would probably have been a nightmare

[pearl patio]

And they probably had a team to set up the servers who will work on world servers

[tacit pendant]

But the team that finished their work was likely all engineers yeah

[small anvil]

Zanaris was doomed from the start I think

[pearl patio]

I think technical was also tough though. Like zanaris only really works if players can create their own content (bosses etc) but technically that’s a nightmare

[tacit pendant]

I hope our south american and asian friends get servers

[pearl patio]

Ya it was a bad idea

[small anvil]

Like i feel like they pitched Roblox

To the higher ups

But weren't willing to give that much control

And instead it was going to be custom leagues

[tacit pendant]

Roblox/minecraft/fortnight only works if you are willing to let go of all control

[small anvil]

Exactly

And have robust tools for people to script in

[pearl patio]

Also those games are just significantly easier to mod than osrs

[tacit pendant]

Good lord the tech help threads on modding osrs

[small anvil]

Code base is not at all stable enough for that level of customization

And they probably worry about some vulnerability being found in the main game

[tacit pendant]

"Hey i tried to make an official bronzeman mode on my server and now dragon claws dont work, help"

[small anvil]

If they release that level of detail

If people have the code, how long til someone finds a dupe

Sorta thing

[tacit pendant]

"I added a single tile to karamja, and now my my pet duke is calling me slurs"

[pearl patio]

It would make bots basically undetectable lol

It was such a stupid idea there are a million reasons you can never have people modding this game. So basically you get an entire team working on a project where all you can do is change stats and drop rates

Hence the scrapping

[small anvil]

Like the point of custom servers is offloading creative development to the community

And organic marketing

People instead were just gonna get leagues year round which would just cannibalize the rest of the game

[pearl patio]

Even perma league servers I don’t think work

[small anvil]

Wouldn't grow the market enough to be worth the development cost

[pearl patio]

Because it kills the hype for new leagues

[small anvil]

Giving people anxious to advance quickly a separate server instead of being enticed to buy bonds to advance faster

Is bad for the business

[tacit pendant]

They posted this new sweep up update pretty fast. Im wondering if this urgency means faster than expected update drop? I'm having a hard time being motivated to do any of these bosses til changes drop

I guess with oathplate out, potting collo and tob are my best bets

[small anvil]

Toa you'd want to bank the goods

Like you'd wanna do toa now (if you can stand it)

[tacit pendant]

Maybe? Im guessing gp per hour stays kinda similar

[winter hearth]

Not 'urgency' per se, just wanted to strike while the iron was somewhat hot and also knowing that there's still another blog to come. Coupled with some folks taking holiday throughout June just a case of getting something out once we had a direction

[small anvil]

I can see the incentive to lock in the directions

Then there's a checklist of tasks to get done

[tacit pendant]

Fair enough. I appreciate the quick dialogue on it.

[hard axle]

Rather than looking into a budget fang, could we look into the hp/defense scaling as well?

I think both scaling, along with magic, is a bit hairy

[tacit pendant]

Any thoughts on just buffing blue keris while you're in here?

[gaunt kestrel]

sorry to bother! and a little offtopic, but is looking at the accessibility of oath still on the table, or is the team collectively movign to other projects like delve and the sweep up?

ignoring ge pricing and all that

[winter hearth]

It's something for us to chat about, but it's another set of compounding variables here that's like - make the raid a lil better with QoL, adjust some drop rates into what we believe is a healthier spot and target the top end, then adjust defence scaling so raids at the top end get quicker and becomes harder to predict the change, risk winding back up in the exact same spot as before or have to hit rates harder

[hard axle]

True true

[small anvil]

I just hope the team learns that HP/def scaling is not terribly fun

[winter hearth]

I'm not sure, my focus has been Sweep-Up for the last little bit so I don't really have anything committal to share

[hard axle]

Makes sense, thanks!

[small anvil]

Especially defense scaling

[winter hearth]

Lesson learned long ago, see Yama's base form and post-release contract tweaks

[winter hearth]

We know that people want low def high HP because it feels better, but also need to toe the line of not effectively eliminating accuracy as a relevant vector for balance/reward design

[gaunt kestrel]

no problem!

[hard axle]

My honest response to PZ when announced:

[gaunt kestrel]

thanks for responding as always ❤️

[small anvil]

Yeah, it's more the concern that the contracts followed that scheme, the adjustment away from that was definitely appreciated

[winter hearth]

np, had to jump OOO this afternoon so apologies for being a little quieter than usual post-blog

[pearl patio]

I would love to see more bosses come into the game where horn is good too

Because as it stands it kind of just a Yama weapon

[gaunt kestrel]

for a second i read ooo as oathplate helm chest legs instead of out of office

i need to touch some grass

[small anvil]

Rs brain

[winter hearth]

Imagine this is probably the case, similar to stuff like Vbow gaining use-cases over time

[tacit pendant]

Ralos

[vernal valve]

main problem with horn and ralos is they're best when used for content jagex doesn't like making 😭

i'm sure they'll get more use eventually, but how far away that is is heavily tbd

[tacit pendant]

But yeah goblin, the new keris gem might not be a necessity? Akkha changes already alleviate this pressure via bowfa butterfly, and kephri already weak to blue keris. A crossbow weakness for baba accomplishes the same goal imo

[vernal valve]

they could also just slightly nerf toa stab defenses & make Fang work like it does in the rest of the game

[tacit pendant]

Wait baba is weak to crossbows my bad

So... yeah the chip damage changes actually solve this as is, without a new gem

[gaunt kestrel]

surely give heavy ballista monkeybane

[hard axle]

40% bonus damage and accuracy against gnomemonkey?

[gaunt kestrel]

[small anvil]

Let's lure the gnome

[hard axle]

[small anvil]

He's rich now

[blazing crane]

wait have they added the vistage change yet

[frail bough]

no

[blazing crane]

600 whisper kc i need to knowww

[frail bough]

All of it is basically just a "what we are planning to do and it will come out when it comes out"

You don't need to know, I promise

[blazing crane]

only drop ive gotten is robe bottoms

i need to know for my sanity

[frail bough]

If I told you that you were 0/3, would you give up?

[blazing crane]

100%

[frail bough]

then just give up bro

[velvet token]

I just zone out while doing potion prep at duke tbh

[neon gate]

I'd be disappointed to see new bosses where the horn is shoehorned in by giving it 100000 crush defense, a high defense level, and a defense drain cap, like Yama. Jagex should reconsider the post blog pre launch nerfs of horn claws and horn scythe, which is where the horns actual design should really shine

It was pre overnerfed

[frail bough]

if you don't want to commit to grind the drop, then being x/3 don't matter
just take a break and come back later - itll come eventually

[velvet token]

I'll probley be done with duke anyway by the time it comes out lol

[neon gate]

Horn scythe is muuuuch more interesting, high apm, and coordinated gameplay than horn maul

[pearl patio]

Do u want horn to work with all 3 hitsplats? Cause it works with scy now

[neon gate]

Yes

[pearl patio]

I agree they should’ve kept it to the first claw hitsplat

[neon gate]

It works now but it's trash

It should work with all 3

[pearl patio]

Ya that would be fine just people don’t like inconsistencies

[neon gate]

Horn sra is turbodogshit

[tacit pendant]

Horn will go crazy with the next crush megarare

[neon gate]

Because the whole concept is 8 hits total, you don't get enough uptime for sra to do human dps

[pine dirge]

Since you guys are doing TOA, are you going to fix the bug where you can't hit jugs at Zebak with magic if they are stationary? It's very annoying for anyone using shadow

[small anvil]

Horn DDS spec would have been funny

Or chally would be more relevant for pvm

[austere mulch]

Still waiting for Sotetseg to not know what hit him

[vivid ruin]

You can theres just a delay with shadow

[pine dirge]

no you cant, it says you can't attack this npc

i wrote it wrong, its not moving jugs, its stationary jugs

meant to write "not moving"

[vivid ruin]

Ahhh

I always pull out bowfa anyways

[pine dirge]

you literally cant attack jugs with magic if they are not moving already

but once they move you can, its weird.

[tacit pendant]

Monkeys paw curls, now you cant attack the moving ones either.

[cloud iron]

this 100%

[pearl patio]

Imagine horn working for claws

The 1 down reds. I can see it now

[tacit pendant]

https://tenor.com/view/white-claw-the-claw-toy-story-clawwww-gif-14432446

[hard axle]

“Burst damage from specs with surge pots and double death charge isn’t that broken if you lengthen it out over the total course of 15 minutes ”

[tacit pendant]

Unintentional beer ad in my gif, thanks tenor

[austere mulch]

Fwiw it takes a lot of effort and coordination to make it work even for reds, and your 1 down rates are already absurdly high in 5s and would be impossibly low to play for in 3s if they did (plus you wouldn’t have the spec anyways bc 12 dawns p1)

It’d make 4s at least humanly common though

But like

[hard axle]

dumbest shit I’ve read and I still hate surge pot

[austere mulch]

Even then

That is such an extreme niche and is what people voted for

[pearl patio]

R u talking about the low T monkey video?

[hard axle]

“erm ackshually it’s just 1 zcb spec every 15 minutes, so it’s not that strong”

[tacit pendant]

Burning claw in team nex would go hard too, tbf

[austere mulch]

Makes no sense to take it away without actually looking at numbers around relative increase in expected damage, raw increase in expected damage, and the logistics around where that is viable at the cost of additional spec and coordination

[hard axle]

I have little idea what ur referring to but Redditors were parroting shit about surge pot not being busted

[pearl patio]

Dude didn’t even think about how cracked pots are at stuff like p1 and 1d bloat and how much of a time save that is

[hard axle]

cuz they don’t do the content where it matters

[tacit pendant]

So good at bloat

[hard axle]

Or at the level where it matters

[pearl patio]

Ya they got that from a gnome monkey video where he took the dps from zcb to claws and divided by 5 minutes to say “see it’s not that good!”

[hard axle]

Natty 1d trio bloat btw

[gaunt kestrel]

no way

[hard axle]

Friend got a 44s bloat in a trio

[gaunt kestrel]

THATS how he calced it?

[pearl patio]

Smartest gnome video

Not even joking

[tacit pendant]

Little extra wiggle room to get more adren dds' at core

[hard axle]

^

[gaunt kestrel]

thats nutty

[gaunt kestrel]

this is nutty i mean

crazy take

[hard axle]

I’ve made 5k surge pots already, 95k to go

[pearl patio]

Surge pits aren’t that good for bloat trio cause you don’t bgs so zcb doesn’t have great accuracy

And if you money neck bloat trios you should be put on a list (vintage)

They’re awesome for 4s tho

[tacit pendant]

I made 800 hours worth of surge pots and it wasnt even an herblore level

[austere mulch]

Only really use them at trio bloat for speedruns and that only because you don’t get the option to use them for both maiden and bloat, even though in speedruns, you have like 3:30-4 mins between the start of maiden and the start of bloat in maiden room time, travel time, and trading time

[tacit pendant]

Surge pots and dc also make skipping reinforcements at collo easier during some of the mid waves.

[hard axle]

The recent powercreep goes hard af

[austere mulch]

Not ticking down between rooms was almost as bad of a knee jerk call as making horn not work with claws as polled (yet they still reset on dearth in cox)

Gz this is a 4 dose pot and you only get to use two doses of it

[gaunt kestrel]

Ik we were very creep averse for a while but ngl id like to slow down a bit going forward personally

[hard axle]

mhm

Ranged/shadow has enough

[tacit pendant]

We have plenty of side grade niches left for 2026

[pearl patio]

Isn’t surge pot for trios like a 20s time save just for p1?

[hard axle]

Melee got like a fraction of what the other two got

[pearl patio]

Like they’re crazy good

[austere mulch]

Yeah, it’s why it’s non negotiable to use p1

Aka can’t use at sote

Which means you can’t viably use horn at sote either

[tacit pendant]

Crush, stab, elemental and heavy ranged all have enough room for rewards to get us to like 2027

[austere mulch]

sotetseg won’t know what hit him

[tender harness]

lets lure @hard axle to a maze death in tob

but dont say anything

[pearl patio]

Double dc goes so hard for p2 too

[tender harness]

double disconnect, does in deed

[tacit pendant]

Oh max hp is also another area that we could see rewards in. Would help pvp alot

[austere mulch]

Genuinely baffles me how they came to the conclusion that ticking between rooms is bad. Not resetting on deaths is great though

[obsidian venture]

Seems like I was correct about the usage of the surge pot. Really only makes sense in eff teams and some solo content

The no tick down between room times is lame for all potters

[tender harness]

delete surge pot

[obsidian venture]

And horn is basically for yama and toa

[austere mulch]

And toa is 75% solo

[tacit pendant]

Surge pot also is a safety net for being dumb about spec management

[austere mulch]

😭😭

[obsidian venture]

That’s the funny part

People kept coping about teams

Was genuinely surprised to see a low number

[gaunt kestrel]

Ngl I don't want this in the game

[austere mulch]

Didn’t expect to ever get data on it but I knew solo would be a high%. Didn’t realize it’d be that high though.

75 is insane

[gaunt kestrel]

Torva having +HP in rs2 was hella jank

[tacit pendant]

I mean yes its janky looking etc

[austere mulch]

2028 we’re getting new health system called constitution and adding another digit so we can more easily fit in new weapons at fractional dmg increases

[gaunt kestrel]

Anglers for 130+

[tacit pendant]

But like... if we get any spec weapon creep at all. Pvp becomes ass

[gaunt kestrel]

Yea idts

Honestly to me it just seems like they dc about pvp balance

[tacit pendant]

You are right...

[austere mulch]

They just need to accept that pvp needs to be a separate facet of the game and have PvP specific rules and restrictions (already do, but they’ve been vocal about trying to avoid that)

[gaunt kestrel]

Ya it's inevitable though

[austere mulch]

Before, they wouldn’t give big magic dmg increases because PvP, then it became shadow that was the problem

[tacit pendant]

Flat armor could also help lol

Justi helm meta in bridding would be a funny meme

[austere mulch]

Inb4 “flat armor takes the skill away from tanking in PvP”

[tacit pendant]

Oh ffs

[gaunt kestrel]

[austere mulch]

Gz yeah, I really enjoy watching “tank tests” from 50 to 0 wildy

[tacit pendant]

Problem with flat armor justi being a bandaid for pvp is that its still just a melee set

And as it is, you dont even bring much melee armor in alot of setups

[gaunt kestrel]

And the inconsistencies of pvp vs outside of pvp is like crazy one off interactions

[hard axle]

More than that potentially

[gaunt kestrel]

Would really be a pain in the ass to ask people to become acquainted with rebalancing all xyz gear for pvp scenario

[tacit pendant]

I like pvp alot (maxed pure, plenty of time zerk and main too) and im sick of the inconsistencies

[hard axle]

Cuz think of it this way

[gaunt kestrel]

But otherwise it's overtuned and your kill potential is through the roof

[hard axle]

Yama duo adds 2 kc to global count

Teams should do the same

This means the number of actual team completions could be inflated due to this

[gaunt kestrel]

Oh interesting

[hard axle]

10% is the upper limit

Which is still fine

Of a number to have

[gaunt kestrel]

I wonder if they even have that data for old content

Be nice to get a cox board too ngl

[tacit pendant]

Im used to barraging off spellbook, and i genuinely wouldnt care if they let pvmers just use autocast to defend themselves

[hard axle]

Anglerfish not working in pvp is laughable

[tacit pendant]

Its stupid, but also not that inpactful. You usually brew/bwan after an angler anyways so its a non-issue in most cases

So like, with it being a non-issue, remove the limitation

A bwan that overheals, might actually be a decent solution?

[austere mulch]

Ye just being optimistic that they took that part into consideration 💀

[vestal jetty]

What? So duo 1 kc means 2kc in global?

[hard axle]

Think so yeah

[austere mulch]

If they can determine what % of completions are in different scales, you’d hope they’d account for that in the total net raid completions

but we’ve seen worse so definitely a non-zero chance they didn’t lol

[plush gull]

so obviously not QAd. what a jank and awful fight. cant even stand on glyphs to protect from the non tickeatable attacks. apparently i have to count how many ticks glyph buffs are and do the math with his attack cycle or something. im sure thats intended behavior

not even worth engaging with the content if its this buggy. ill probably pay someone to carry 100 kc for the untradeable death charge scroll. dossier is only 1 in 80 with 15% contribution though so could easily go dry, with no dry protection on that

[hard axle]

You stepped on the shadow glyph too late and flare explored and then because you activated it way too late, the 2nd glyph didn't get activated since there's a 2t gap between glyphs.

You could've brewed, you could've brought combo eats

But you stood there like a deer in headlights

[plush gull]

theres a 2t gap between glyphs, not 1t?

[hard axle]

From when the protection wears off and activation of the same glyphs, it's 1-2t

ie. shadow -> shadow

which should never be happening

even in contracts or glyph skipping, it's always shadow -> fire -> shadow

[plush gull]

how should it never be happening, glyph skipping in normal has random rotations

cant even do it consistently if u get void flares as 2nd special

which is why i have gear to kill 1 flare

[tacit wharf]

woulda been quicker to just do wgs

[vestal jetty]

Ur just too slow. Skill issue + shitter

Its not a bug, ur simply slow

[tough nacelle]

Gotta be trolling considering the colo kcs

[plush gull]

i just woke up, yes its a scuffed kill, doesnt change that the QA nightmare happened in it

[hard axle]

and im telling you that you still performed fucking terribly

like, this is Tass level trolling

if you're going to complain, be legitimate about it :/

[plush gull]

im aware, ur saying something irrelevant instead of addressing my points. ur the one not being legitimate

[hard axle]

you went shadow -> shadow, taking 43 damage from an exploding flare because you step on the first shadow glyph too late. This is on you.

Then you idiotically stood there instead of eating with 10 brews in inventory and blaming the game for lack of QA because there's a cooldown between glyphs SPECIFICALLY so you dont' waste them.

[plush gull]

is ur point that this wont happen except when im late on the flare?

[hard axle]

This would not happen if you were on time

[vestal jetty]

Why would u bring that many brews u dumbass

[hard axle]

You literally fit the shadow special into the needle hole between glyphs

It almost feels like you went out of your way to get this clip lmao

In a duo, both people step onto glyphs or you pre-step on the glyph before the special for a reason.

[vestal jetty]

Ren ur a shitter instead of typing go learn ur kills

[hard axle]

behave

[plush gull]

thats my point, do u think its intended for this to be a thing

[tacit pendant]

If you are late to the mechanics, you get punished. No QA issues here

[hard axle]

YES

It's specifically because in a duo

you BOTH

walk onto a sigil

if it consumed both, you would be fucked

there's a 3:2 ratio

of sigils

if both of you stepped on the sigil, you're just boned

for the next special

instead of being dense, just listen to what im saying on HOW to avoid this

once the shadow waves or crawling flames come out into the arena, you can step onto the sigil

or pay attention to the exploding flares

[vivid ruin]

Why does this dude run to oscord everytime he needs to cry about something he needs practice at lol

[plush gull]

i already know this kill is bad, im only bringing up the glyph gap thing

[tacit pendant]

Could have done wgs and watched a guide in the time spent complaining about non-issues

[hard axle]

yes, it's intentional

[plush gull]

how is it necessary for duos

[hard axle]

.

[tacit pendant]

Jfc

[plush gull]

stepping on two at the same time is different from stepping on one after the other one is ending

[vivid ruin]

Stop feeing the troll

[tacit pendant]

Have you actually potted a duo before?

[hard axle]

[plush gull]

no, some dude joined when I had private on and called me a bot and kept teleing out, he had 0 kc and was messing up my glyphs so i just turned private off

[hard axle]

gl guys, im killing a spider

[tacit pendant]

Pot some duos with other learners and think critically about when you may have stepped on a glyph several ticks before or after your teamate, and what the consequence would have been if both glyphs were burned up

[plush gull]

but this isnt several ticks before or after, glyphs last forever

standing on one when one is supposed to be ending is different

[tacit pendant]

Glyphs dont last forever

[plush gull]

well if they lasted 1t less time i wouldnt have died

not sure why there cant be a 0t gap, if its still made impossible to double glyph in a duo if you both step on two glyphs

it does genuinely seem like a bug

[tacit pendant]

I can understand that. But there is not a 0t gap so u gotta block orbs a lot earlier. Its not a bug just a design choice.

[minor whale]

They don't want you to fuck up and have instant recourse to fix it
If you fuck up you gotta deal with it by eating or waiting
You just made a mistake and call it a bug

[kindred pier]

It’s absurd that they made all the fucked up rules for tob, but it resets on death in chambers

[plush gull]

its a design choice for impossible to avoid damage that u cant tick eat, having a mechanic where u stand on glyphs to get a shield to null them...

and then ur shielded, and standing on a long active glyph for a second shield, with plenty of time, so ur basically double shielded... yet instead u get 50s with literally no way to avoid it?

[kindred pier]

Kinda worst of both worlds as is

[tacit pendant]

You messed up, they want you to be punished, you got punished

Its not a bug. You can be against that design choice but you could have ate

[plush gull]

id believe u more if u said it would be annoying to code a 0t gap cuz that would make it hard to make double glyphs not proc in duos with sametick stepons or make it pid based

[minor whale]

What do you mean impossible to avoid damage
You weren't on the glyph when the shadow orb filled up as seen here, so you took damage
Received protection after the damage on you was already queued
It runs out by the time you hit the other glyph but you aren't allowed to just constantly graph glyphs as soon as they run out, there's a delay

Because it's intentional game design to not let you just always hit a glyph as soon as the glyph protection runs out

[plush gull]

yes i was late on the flares, but i was long standing on a glyph as I took damage from the matching special

so it doesnt make sense for me to take damage from a special when im basically double shielded

does it?

[minor whale]

The damage had already been queued for the flares
The incoming special attack hit you because you simply aren't allowed to pick up another glyph as soon as the old one runs out

You weren't "double shielded"

You took flare damage, shielded once, shield ran out while you were on a glyph while the special was incoming, but the delay between protection means you take damage again

It's intentional and in no way a bug

[plush gull]

btw why are yall saying this is for duos, doesnt it literally let you troll in duos

now that ive learned this buggy timing from this death, i can deliberately proc glyphs at the specific timing necessary to force the gap

and duo partners cant do anything about it

[minor whale]

Ok sure if you want to intentionally get you and your duo killed you're able to?

[tacit pendant]

You can also just run around the arena and proc all glyphs on spawn to pk a teamate

[minor whale]

Like what is the question here

Yes you're able to kill your duo if you play like shit and do it on purpose

[tacit pendant]

You can also pk at nex, and all 3 raids

[minor whale]

Just like in cox you can sprint away to opposite side of the room when tele attack happens to kill your teammate

[plush gull]

idk levi was saying the gap was intentional cuz of duos

[minor whale]

Or like almost all team content you can kill your partner

[plush gull]

im wondering how thats true

[minor whale]

Yes the gap exists because in duos you could just have someone sitting on a glyph waiting for it to run out to just instantly grab again, which would remove a shitload of the mechanics of the fight if you just had 24/7 uptime on glyphs

It's also so in solos if you make a mistake you have to eat or have the timing correct to fix it

[tacit pendant]

In any case this isnt a QA problem. Its ok if you dont like that mechanic. Learn it or don't you know what you can do to improve your yama kills

[plush gull]

what a janky mechanic to work around and study tho, even the person with radiant oathplate didnt know if the glyph gap is 1t or 2t

[tacit pendant]

Dont need to know it if you just aren't late the first time. Also janky mechanics are the name of the game, see chambers

[plush gull]

i have 1 cox kc with full layout and i didnt notice anything too janky

except that the timing for head turning seemed to be server based rather than entry based cuz my metronome kept landing at the same spot but that was probably just a coincidence

[tacit pendant]

When he skips null is subjectively janky. Theres a lot thats kinda weird, not-intuitive if you dont have a guide.

[plush gull]

sure would love to be doing cox for my double death charge scroll right now 😭

[tacit pendant]

Please do wgs. Learn duos. You will have a much better time doing the content as intended.

[plush gull]

to spend 90mil to delete my arclight that takes dozens of hours of mindless tedium to charge? that doesnt sound like a good intended system

[tacit pendant]

This game is a bunch of dozens of hours of tedium for upgrades

Emberlight is such a nice improvement also. Easiest 60 mil of my life

[tacit wharf]

ren is the perfect example of why i dislike catering to specific playstyles outside of the official ones

[plush gull]

ive done colo in sub 20m gear with no food, and getting deadeye to camp in inferno didnt take dozens of hours even though it was annoying spending a day or two on it

charging arclight takes much longer

[tacit pendant]

Also. Rite of vile transference is guaranteed on dossier at 100kc. You get 100kc wayyyyy faster in duos

Alright well my iron bud is like 700 titans dry for deadeye. It happens at titans and itll happen a ton of other places. Inferno and collo are like the two only places you can potentially just go in and out in under 5 hours for a guaranteed reward

[plush gull]

if u did solos ud get deadeye at a lower kc

i was doing duos at first until i realised the weighting made it pointless

[tacit wharf]

dont do it mic

its not worth it

[tacit pendant]

Hes doing solos, hes like 1st percentile dry there. Rngs a bitch

[plush gull]

ok so why not make deadeye tradeable too

[tacit pendant]

I wouldnt have touched the boss if it was tradeable and i enjoyed my time there, cuz i didnt go dry

[vernal valve]

bc it would be literally dirt cheap and then it'd be basically free

[tacit pendant]

Mystic vigour so good

[minor whale]

Because sometimes having things be a grind to get is good, especially when it's very strong

[plush gull]

honestly why not just make everything in the game free, if theyre not doing zanaris they should always keep beta servers online

[ember token]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/994318137652682868/1267450216387444767/image0.gif

[tacit pendant]

Id be down for perma beta servers tbh

But they woudldnt be super popular

[minor whale]

Very genuine comments from Ren as always I love that the world's most obvious troll and baiter just sticks around forever and tries to complain constantly about the game while doing things in the most wild way and wondering why it's hard

[vernal valve]

probably because the devs are invested in the game servers being up

[tacit pendant]

I just think if you dont want to grind, and you like challenging gaming. There are genuinely better games for you. I do not think your interests allign with the core design of osrs and thats ok.

[minor whale]

Just go do wgs, go send like 20 Colo runs and buy some synapses and then send Yama
It'll beat the hell out of grinding it with a normal trident and arclight

[tacit wharf]

you know what, i love the hell out of it that they made people lose charges on archlight when they broke it down from an emberlight

nice little finger to those that just buy and sell items instead of just keeping

[plush gull]

awful boss, guess even if i do what pyro suggested i wont be able to do yama anymore until i have a scythe and then i still wont be able to do bis dps

they need to fix arclighht

[tacit wharf]

naw its fine

[plush gull]

but also they could have just made things besides arclight work at yama

and also fixed the broken arclight mess

and then we would have 0 problems not 2

[minor whale]

?
Why would you be unable to do Yama until scythe

[tacit pendant]

Emberlight > scythe

[plush gull]

if i get death charge and sell emberlight then what?

do yama for a bit and sell emberlight again?

[minor whale]

Why would you sell emberlight

[plush gull]

ancient shards take how many hours to get again?

[tacit pendant]

Just keep emberlight its an amazing item

[plush gull]

does it beat sra at duke

[minor whale]

Just fucking keep the item that's a bis upgrade?

[plush gull]

well i guess u pair it with sra for enrage

[tacit pendant]

And with no scythe emberlight is bis at duke and cerb and likely the delve boss

[plush gull]

ok fine ill consider it

maybe

[tacit pendant]

Oh and sire / skotizo but fuck all that

[tacit wharf]

demonic's tds

[tacit pendant]

Oh yeah tds

Tds are chill money maker, could buy a synapse and then farm a second one to sell

[tacit wharf]

like i said, fking love that they did it cuz of people like ren

[tacit pendant]

Demonbane weapons have no right being as good as they are tbh

Dragonbane down bad

[tacit wharf]

i disagree, but thats a different story about weapons with specific dmg amplifications to specific monsters

[plush gull]

its annoying that emberlight isnt good for void

need to waste so much money on melee gear to use it

when instead i could just have void+sra and masori+blowpipe

[tacit pendant]

Its more that a lot more demons have been made in the last year. Im happy that they are strong against demons

[tacit wharf]

understand that view

[gaunt kestrel]

gz like 20m on melee gear

[tacit pendant]

After delve, we are good on demons for a bit

[plush gull]

20m of melee gear is worse than void with sra

[tacit pendant]

Melee gear is the cheapest of the 3 styles

[plush gull]

you need more like 50-100m iirc

[gaunt kestrel]

well surely you'd just sell sra

[plush gull]

like bandos and faceguard and fero gloves

[gaunt kestrel]

torso exists

blood moon legs are cheap

[tacit wharf]

blood moon ^

[gaunt kestrel]

feros

serp is cheap torture sucks but is cheap

[tacit pendant]

Two birds one stone pot the blue moon setup

[gaunt kestrel]

though thats in the ballpark of like 30m not 20 anymore

[tacit wharf]

ntm void shit to start with

[tacit pendant]

Hurting for 30m when you can pot collo is insane

Thats like 3 hours

[tacit wharf]

0 dmg collo as well btw

[tacit pendant]

At worst rng

[gaunt kestrel]

yea

real question

ren dont you have like 150 colo

[plush gull]

i just calced and torso+nezzy+bgloves in infernal is like 2 ticks worse on manticores than void 😬

[tacit wharf]

oh shit 2 ticks

[gaunt kestrel]

how are you so poor 😭

[tacit wharf]

that like a total of like 30 ticks for a whole collo run

[gaunt kestrel]

speedge

[plush gull]

bruh thats like 20 seconds

its actually annoying to spend an extra 20 seconds noodling on stuff

[tacit wharf]

30/6

is 5

5 seconds

[plush gull]

and less fun

[tacit wharf]

5 fking seconds mate

[plush gull]

...

[tacit wharf]

for better gear elsewhere

[gaunt kestrel]

errr

30t is 18s

but im also sure you're losing like 18s naturally doing smth else

[tacit pendant]

Like posting bad takes on discord!

[plush gull]

cant even afford a sra rn with all the gear i own crashing from yama

and id be even farther from one if i buy a synapse 😭

[gaunt kestrel]

in tentacle whip we trust

[sacred oracle]

jesus christ

[gaunt kestrel]

gm mox

havent spoken to you td

[sacred oracle]

(i will not be elaborating further at this time)

hello tanz

[gaunt kestrel]

[tacit pendant]

I lost more on oathplate crashing, no regrets

[minor whale]

Why are you calcing it in the worst fucking gear possible

Guys if I use adamant gloves, a rune plate body, and graceful boots, my manticore kills are 4 ticks slower 😦

[plush gull]

i mean, any upgrades would cost over 10m and raise death costs, except blood moon legs

[minor whale]

I'm just flummoxed as to what your bank looks like to where this is a concern to you

[plush gull]

which are a max hit tbf

[tacit wharf]

dont miss those offensive prayer flicks, or thats more tick loss

[minor whale]

Praying Chivalry to save on ppot cost

[tacit pendant]

Why are you worried about death cost, where is that no food confidence

[tacit wharf]

trueee

the amount that he chuggs those brews

[plush gull]

bruh, give me asian servers and a doctor

[tacit wharf]

and he's worried about death cost

[plush gull]

and not being homeless

[gaunt kestrel]

ren what does your set up even look like

im genuinely curious

like your colo gear

[tacit pendant]

Asian servers would be great

[plush gull]

for what, my bank is like no full setup for anything rn

[gaunt kestrel]

void bring tort sra??

[plush gull]

i cant afford a sra rn

[tacit pendant]

Sra not worth outside of some very specific bank values during a tbow or shadow rebuild imo

[plush gull]

this is the setup i got the most kc in but i change gear alot

and since i dont have stable internet rn itd be easier to camp blood fury with sra and never worry about mistakes or lag

[tacit pendant]

Nox hally or tent whip surely better

[frail bough]

tent whip degrades, nox hally is awk if you dont get attack distance debuff

cant afford the whip degrade

[tacit pendant]

Blood fury but cant afford whip degrade. Hmmm

[frail bough]

yes obviously

[tacit wharf]

has all the stats for wgs, wgs too hard

[tacit pendant]

Anyways my shift is over. Its been an interesting talk here fellahs

[tacit wharf]

suggestion: go do some moons to get some gear, ez solution

[plush gull]

how much does it even cost to charge an arclight if you blood burst ankous

[chrome lantern]

Why blood burst

A lot more than if you use ice burst or even ice barrage

[plush gull]

well answer for ice burst then, you dont even have to add prayer pots. we can just multiple that for blood burst cost

its probably not that much so I probably just have to charge 2 arclights :/

[tacit pendant]

Just keep the emberlight forever. Please

[chrome lantern]

Imagine if you could just profit money for a moment instead of throwing your entire existence into contracts and losing your whole bank

Then it wouldn't be a concern

[plush gull]

bruh i just wanna do inferno, sell my inferno gear, and do ezmode colo with double death charge for dragon crossbow every wave even with bring

should probably just stop wasting arclight charges and get a purging staff, send solos until dossier then do duos

[tacit pendant]

Dcb at collo. Wat

And yeah purging staff is very good

[tacit pendant]

Hmmm interesting. Arent you going to run into situations where melee frem isnt next to the mage?

[plush gull]

i was having too much fun that day but theres a tick where u can always hit both while solving double souths and fremmies damageless

and also an alt strat that wastes slightly fewer ticks if u cant 1 shot ranger

sending it from longrange like that only works if fremmies dont spawn across from pillar from u and u dont pick myopia

i would just use the safer strats if i was grinding money like im wanting to double death charge

[tacit pendant]

Interesting id be interested to see the myopia close range breakdown

Wait, so you could dcb spec a green araxxyte to hit a total of like 108 damage then, if lined up with araxxor no?

[plush gull]

#old-school message

thats the strat i always used for first 100 kc

just starting on start tile normally instead of being late and having to move before wave start

[tacit pendant]

Wait damn dcb spec just barely doesnt one shot acidic araxxyte in max. Scam

Honestly. The inventory save makes this not an awful first quiver strat. But not dps speccing is rough for reinforcement skips in max gear

[plush gull]

the method is also tick & tile perfect which i think is the main reason no one else is doing it

if u go diagonally it hits the ranger instead

and if u hit earlier it can hit only the mage sometimes

[tacit pendant]

Does dcb spec max hit round up?

If u dont know thats ok

[plush gull]

idk, but whats not on the wiki is that it seems to have both secondary and tertiary damage which makes it super janky to use if u wanna hit all 3

[tacit pendant]

It looks like in max gear with avernic treads, you could 1 shot araxyte if it rounds up from 57.8 to 58

So maybe some jank spec tech for tbow araxxor lmfao

[plush gull]

ive only done araxxor on leagues to get halberd on 1 account and i hated it too much to even look at the CAs so idk

[tacit pendant]

But youd have to drag green spide to raxs sw tile