game-update

[slender vapor]

Let alone smashed it

[meager flame]

theres a lot of content that makes money where torva is still better

[rain fulcrum]

All 3 places I use stab

[slender vapor]

Armor and legs dropped 30-40m helmet went up enough to cover it

[meager flame]

the weird thing about torva that got exposed

is just the rates honestly

idk what they're going to do when its time to make another set or actually replace it for good

its not like they can 1 up the rates and not have a meltdown

[icy relic]

PNM is one drop every 14 hours right?

[rain fulcrum]

Upgradescape

[icy relic]

after the nerfs Yama is also pretty high up there but it's faster to complete

[meager flame]

i mean yeah it probably has to be upgrades

but

lol

this is the best part

what do they do about oathplate and inquisitor etc when that happens

[icy relic]

I'm kinda concerned about delve because of the backlash from yama

[rain fulcrum]

Upgrade item will go down to alch price

[meager flame]

since they'll also delete their niche

if torva were stronger they wouldn't even have a place in the game

[vernal valve]

legs and body both dropped like 70m each? helm peaked at like 50m+ but is really like 30m+ now

i mean the whole set isn't in the gutter but it definitely dropped a ton

[meager flame]

lol they've kind of built this to fail

[rain fulcrum]

Maybe they just never upgrade torva

I feel like that's the right approach

[meager flame]

that'll never happen though

one day we're gonna be like

man nex sucks we've been here for 500 years

[rain fulcrum]

Give upgrades to oath inq instead

[meager flame]

jagex upgrade it

[icy relic]

inq needs to be fortifiable

[meager flame]

same thing that happened to bandos

[rain fulcrum]

At that point Torva becomes useless and we are free

[meager flame]

when we made torva

[icy relic]

and then later on at some point they can give torva some stab accuracy or some shit through upgrade spikes

[slender vapor]

The only thing holding up torva is that nex is a shit boss no one wants to do

[rain fulcrum]

Just move torva

[vernal valve]

jagex is just really bad at considering future design space anytime new BIS is introduced

[rain fulcrum]

They contemplated moving claws which was dumb AF so surely we can move torva

[meager flame]

i mean i could make a huge funny upgrade system

where you take torva and the other armors to make new armors in the future

so all of the sets always exist they're just getting functionally identical replacements to occupy their space

[vernal valve]

whenever a new BIS item is added, unless it's a weapon, it usually just has to be a super marginal upgrade over what's currently BIS bc of power creep concerns

[slender vapor]

The terarria system

I want to fuse 24 swords to make 1 sword

[icy relic]

saeldor and rapier ??

[vernal valve]

i mean they release ass weapons too

[meager flame]

saeldor is probably the biggest example of jagex trolling us

[vernal valve]

but it's less a hard rule with weapons than it is with other geaer

[rain fulcrum]

Unless it's a mega rare then it gets to be 2x better than everything else

[meager flame]

they had mfs out here getting barely any stat upgrade in the first place

and putting a crazy rate on it

lmao its actually funny but

[icy relic]

this is the shit that I hate so much about megarares

[meager flame]

hopefully they do not do that again

[vernal valve]

the problem is that the super marginal power creep gets really bad when you lock in shit like Ancestral as the BIS mage set for eternity

"bandos tier mage armor" btw

[meager flame]

at least make it better to the point that its noticable

[icy relic]

they took all the powercreep that people complained about in late RS2/RS3 but instead of the powercreep being accessible to everyone by training your prayer to 95 and herb to 96 and dg to 80

you have to pay a bil+ for it

[meager flame]

we're stronger than we were in rs2

[icy relic]

by far yes

[meager flame]

a lot of people dont know that somehow

[rain fulcrum]

Yeah but the powercreep goes swoosh

[vernal valve]

i really do think megarares are kind of just a bad idea

[meager flame]

i mean long term

they sorta are

[slender vapor]

Summoning overloads, and soul split were the big offenders

[meager flame]

but realistically they can probably keep extending this game until we're dead to old age

[icy relic]

and there's no alternatives to them because they've been going deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole that they HAVE to be bis

[meager flame]

before the wheels fall off on the design of it

[icy relic]

rather than really strong in certain situations but not every situation

[meager flame]

like

[slender vapor]

Pvm upgrades are kinda held back by pvp, look at what happened to surge pots

[meager flame]

im sure the ultimate plan is for every raid to always be relevant forever

[signal oyster]

having $$ is the absolute greatest expression of skill in osrs; as evidenced by the 3 yama CAs which are essentially "have max gear lol"

[meager flame]

and each megarare to take up one spot at a time as they drip feed raids every few years

so that we wont live to see it fall apart

even though in theory they do run out of space eventually

[slender vapor]

I can't wait for my mega rare crush mushroom bane

And my mega rare low defense stab weapon

[meager flame]

like right now

[vernal valve]

mega rare defender inc.

[meager flame]

next megarare easily can just be a spec weapon

then the one after that can be a spec weapon for a different style

and so on

then they can give you a blessing slot or whatever

and we're already like 40 by the time we got this far

lmao

[slender vapor]

New sailing raid, mega rare ship cannon

Mega rare sails

Mega rare ship hull

Boom, 3 raids sorted out

[icy relic]

just give turmoil already

[ember token]

mega rare crewmate (the final boss of the raid joins your crew)

[meager flame]

they dont even have to really get into the weeds for obscure megarares for the next 20 or 30 years

they really just make content so slowly in this game they can get away with a lot

[signal oyster]

Drop 3 mega rares in 10 years: man, I guess that's it. Bet they never, ever do that again.

[meager flame]

they probably could even be testing them in leagues

like the khopesh and sol spear

those could be megarare spec weapons

they also have an option for the funniest outcome

stupid stuff like getting the banana clip upgrade for my tbow from a raid

lmao

[icy relic]

sighted maple longbow went crazy in f2p warring

[slender vapor]

I'm waiting for the mega rare toolbelt from the skilling raid

[last onyx]

bonfire continues to tend after finishing logs so you don't get any idle notifications

stand like this for ages

[prime cypress]

Have we had any feedback on getting ashes even when you aren't killing on the correct style for the glyph? And has there also been any feedback on whether the spec glyph 5x rate has been moved from red to yellow glyph? I was definitely getting way more melee glyphs than spec over 3 rotations of both

[fossil epoch]

Damn summer sweep up announcement already

[winter hearth]

never a dull moment

[slender vapor]

https://i.imgur.com/MwsJ3f4.png

Woah

You can just tank through any individual wave that you want now?

The punishment for messing up a waveskip is just damage

[analog crow]

Summer sweep-up is a Massive W
Huey hide harder to obtain is another ironman L though (they are needed for a master clue step)

[slender vapor]

https://i.imgur.com/xEooBxJ.png

[winter hearth]

It's easier to obtain than it was before, just harder to obtain than black d'hide

[slender vapor]

Monkey room was made more consistent and shorter

[analog crow]

Oh okay, I misunderstood from the video then 🙂

[wispy current]

Is this actually happening today??

[ember token]

glad to see elemental weaknesses applied more broadly, was slightly bothered by all the random/slightly obscure mob variants and quest mobs missing weaknesses

[wispy current]

It says “now”

[restive siren]

why in the world would the giant mole be weak to earth lmao

[old chasm]

I imagine next week

[restive siren]

that makes no sense

like fish being weak to water

[analog crow]

These ToA changes are making me really excited

Can't wait to get in there

Visible vestige also big W, how will that affect players with kc but no vestige? I.e. if you already made an invisible roll in the past? (Nvm, I see it in the blog)

[winter hearth]

No, just a haeds-up

[warm pond]

which one of the two is it?

[vivid ruin]

@winter hearth hello. I was wondering if you guys were considering adding symbols of invocations over boss doors in TOA incase people forget which invos are active? Or a pillar to check invos. Thank you guys for your hard work.

[slender vapor]

Huey wand actually being useful?

[winter hearth]

I don't think there's an easy way of doing that from an art perspective

[slender vapor]

Budget suffering for moons seems decent

[warm pond]

The gold ring makes more sense for people who are already 2/3 for example (imagine them only getting 1 piece )

[vivid ruin]

What about adding the pillar from lobby into the nexus? A smaller one

[warm pond]

but getting the individual pieces sounds awesome from a vibes/gameplay perspective

[analog crow]

The move to replace raw supply drops with skilling catalysts is very nice, give some value back to skilling.

[ember token]

hey goblin, in a similar vein to elemental weaknesses being added to old quest mobs, is there gonna be any other changes to them? mainly I'm referring to how Elvarg doesn't have the draconic attribute, and Nezikchened drops regular ashes instead of Malicious Ashes

[slender vapor]

Why is this entire blog just the biggest W

[wooden harbor]

can we not mess with akkha??
why does akkha have to switch styles every special?
its literally killing one of the best rooms in toa right now

[warm pond]

too much happening can see their argument

[analog crow]

Will obor and bryo also drop their keys in f2p? That would get botted fast.

[vivid ruin]

Im just glad to hear white orbs are getting reduced. The rest i can adjust to

[wooden harbor]

even more will be happening if akkha switches styles every special

[winter hearth]

Apologies if slow replies btw gang, a lot going on atm

[oblique mesa]

I thought there was going to be an update to the rare drop table in summer sweep up, maybe I am misremembering

[warm pond]

it'll be more predictable and you need to swtich your own gear less (he defends only against 1 style)

[analog crow]

Addy javelins will become more common

[fair comet]

Adjust Ward of Arceuus to provide reduce incoming Prayer drain from demons by 30%, this is targeted at Cerberus' 'Ghost' attack but has uses at other demons too!

what does this mean is it a typo

[ember token]

is what a typo?

[finite tapir]

Protect from Melee now mitigates all damage at Ba-Ba, unless Invocations which reduce the effectiveness of Protection prayers are activated.
holy shit

[winter hearth]

'provide' is probably included in error yeah

[fair comet]

Ah, thanks for the quick reply.

[wooden harbor]

i dont disagree with this but akkha should not be changing style every special
this messes up high invo toa a lot and heavily nerfs butterflying

there's so much depth to butterflying and now its getting a massive nerf
just crazy

[odd plover]

Akkha changes mean if you have Shadow you can mostly/completely omit bringing ranged.

[last onyx]

you're missing the other changes to Akkha

[wooden harbor]

right, i dont disagree with them

the butterfly nerf is just terrible

[winter hearth]

They're not related at all

[last onyx]

he only prays against style he attacks with

[winter hearth]

I think the theorycrafting side of things means it should be about as good as before - you can mage on more than just one phase, and he already had a little RNG chance to swap styles anyway

over the course of a kill, you should be able to butterfly for about the same %

We'll test it a bunch and make changes as needed, I'm a big butterfly enjoyer and we know it's a concern

[slender vapor]

So bowfa toa just got way stronger

If your mage gear sucks, you can just range more

👀

[warm pond]

I mean, your best 2 styles got buffed

[wooden harbor]

i doubt this
currently you can go through the entire kill without him swapping with perfect play and perfect butterfly (no tickloss transitions) in a 540.
with this change he's guaranteed to change every special which is much more common.
Additionally you are now taking more damage.

yes u can continue to hit him with shadow for 2 phases now

[finite tapir]

[wooden harbor]

but no more butterflying

[winter hearth]

we'll run through a bunch in testing, if we kill butterflying then we'll make more changes - not looking to smoke emergent methods, just make the 'intended' experience better

[finite tapir]

i sorta feel like maybe instead of out-right no longer pushing the player, it should e.g. slow down to 0.5 tiles/tick and players can react to that better

[vocal harness]

jagex has been cooking the last 3 days

[finite tapir]

anyway i wonder how a scurrius-esque boss which teaches the player how to butterfly would go

[vocal harness]

sailing looked great, contracts finally seem to be about where they should be, and summer sweep up looks great

[ember token]

I feel like the new ring is a bit unnecessary and the granite ring should just get turbo-buffed

[keen hinge]

Toa changes seem to mainly lower the skill ceiling signifiantly when it already has the lowest skill ceiling

[shadow flare]

Regarding halberds being able to hit flying enemies, does dawn also fall in this category or will she remain immune to melee

[analog crow]

It does feel like the game has enough useless rings already 😛

[vivid ruin]

W duke change

[ember token]

Make Key Master Teleport Scrolls tradeable, in line with other Teleport scrolls.

woo

[chrome lantern]

Hot take, for the very last bullet, can we add more animation stalls on magic, rather than removing it? One of my favorite parts about the game visually

[keen hinge]

Rn u can bf 100% except on higher scales i dont it being anywhere near that with guaranteed swaps

[slender vapor]

Muh pvp

Can't have animation stalls

[chrome lantern]

I mean rn doesn’t PvP explicitly have more stalls than outside pvp

[vivid ruin]

Are these changes active immediately?

[vocal harness]

no

[remote sphinx]

ill be honest....not really a fan of pnm losing a phase. the fight feels fine as it is pacing wise

[ember token]

The Grandmaster Combat Achievement reward that increases the duration of summoned Thralls to 2 minutes will be moved down to Master. This is probably the reward that feels the most impactful and the most frustrating of the rewards to lose on a new release, so we'd like to bump it down to alleviate frustrations from GM players and make something that feels impactful just a smidge more attainable.

👀

[winter hearth]

This is not a common opinion afaik, the fight's unreal but it is such a drag to run the same phase t hree times in a row, then have a slight variant

[vivid ruin]

Its a pretty long fight though tbf. For the rate at which things drops especially

[chrome lantern]

If this is all specials, I would be butterflying significantly less, especially with Double Trouble on (I run all boss invocations other than Medic in my runs) and these changes to Akkha honestly almost entirely outweigh what I would see improving about the raid if that’s true; in 500s I usually get several sets of specials every raid

[remote sphinx]

for the drop rates sure. but looking at just the fight? personally i dont think so

[keen hinge]

Akkha changes remove big part of the skill cap too for example 300 speeds with claw speccing between bf

[winter hearth]

Have said before in here but will say again, if we wind up inadvertently killing butterfly then we'll make different tweaks, intent is not to remove emergent gameplay but just make the core experience better

[analog crow]

For pnm I wish you'd remove the slepey tablet and just give us the teleport after SotF

[finite tapir]

imo as long as you cannot get bryo/obor uniques at all without a key this is alright

[winter hearth]

Correct

[sudden bane]

they drop keys so i suppose you can if they drop a key and that key is a unique

[chrome lantern]

My only fear is that the time to get keys from the boss isn’t any better than it is now in which case zzz

[finite tapir]

ik the blog says to protect uniques, but sometimes stuff changes, so i'm just speaking my peace based on that

[vocal harness]

I'm sure some of these changes will be controversial (esp drop rate changes), but I think they're all addressing important problems.

[finite tapir]

i mean personally at least for a while i've been saying fang should have been masori rarity, lb should have been swapped with ward

[sudden bane]

goblin about the giant boss changes, does this mean you no longer risk a key if u attempt a fight and die

[winter hearth]

I guess it would, not sure on the specifics at this stage

[sudden bane]

im not saying thats a bad thing i just wanted clarity

[chrome lantern]

Goblin, are there any discussions about significantly increasing PNM rates even beyond kill speed? I know this would be like 30% of the fight gone, but I feel like rates should be at least doubled and orbs at least tripled from where they are now to have a meaningful place in any progression

Especially if elemental rebalances make harm relevant

[keen hinge]

Personally i don't see how more specials and guaranteed swaps on specials with stay vigilant will make core experience for people not bf'n any better, both of these changes look like the goal is to heavily nerf bf

[rare grotto]

@winter hearth could there be a look at zebak's HP/defence? I feel like this is a major pain point at toa since the variance on that room is insane. Even with max def reduction and full 9 way range you're only 75% accurate at high invo. Could there be a look at mayhaps increasing the def reduction cap or something we can do to make the room less variant?

[remote sphinx]

kinda curious as i dont think ive ever really heard any complaints with the fight itself, just the drop table of where this came from. maybe its because i havent done it in a while but i cant rememb having any issue with the fight besides skill issue

[finite tapir]

this is pretty good - ppots were usually not really the bottleneck on a decent iron anyway

[restive siren]

Make mole not weak to earth please. Most important feedback

[ember token]

Make Elvarg draconic

[chrome lantern]

I probably see a comment talking about removing a phase every single time PNM is brought up. It doesn’t make the fight any less, just longer

[upper prism]

Hey are the changes from the summer sweep up update post live already or is it a "we would like to implement this" kinda blogpost? Its a bit unclear in some places

[upper prism]

Having started the grind a while back, it is such a slog...

[remote sphinx]

on another note though....why no talk of the huey fight? as in regards to making it soloable without peeps just sticking 2 alts at the entrance

well soloable without being aids to do

[wooden harbor]

reading through the rest of the blog regarding toa;
I think every change other than the akkha change to heavily nerf butterfly is amazing. So good work on that jmods 👍
but i really hope you reconsider the butterfly nerf
Its the only part of toa that has some depth to it at a higher level to avoid tickloss, and do perfect transitions, stepback to not lose 4 ticks as a shadow comes up and so on. Please do not nerf butterfly

[upper prism]

Butterfly was not touched

[vivid ruin]

Goblin said theyre running tests to try and keep it as is

[wooden harbor]

it is with akkha switching styles every special

[still sundial]

earth weakness identity still feels a bit all over the place instead of following some sort of rule. maybe zombies & skeletons should just be weak to Crumble Undead as to not completely relegate this spell to just the Vorkath spawn? as it stands, it's just useless even for completely new players, and maybe it could scale/have higher tier variants?

[meager flame]

i'll take it honestly

[wooden harbor]

specials have a 1/3 chance to switch style currently and specials happen every 60 secs

[meager flame]

by the project rebalance after this pnm will be great

death by a thousand cuts on those rates but we're getting there

lol

[slender vapor]

From what goblin said, akka will only protect vs the style he's using

So you can mage 2/3 styles now

[keen hinge]

U cant bf unless it melees tho

[analog crow]

give it some tiers like demonbane, I agree

[wooden harbor]

right, but it still kills butterfly

[chrome lantern]

huge difference from not being attacked at all though even if they chip less

Right now I don’t even use supplies in akkha

[keen hinge]

If u remove the guaranteed swap on special and more frequient special i think the akkha changes wouldn't affect bf at all

[upper prism]

So the changes are live already?

[wooden harbor]

and i guess we'll have to see how much chip damage is reduced from akkha because that could be terrible in higher invo toa. (540-600s)

[chrome lantern]

Just flick offensive a lot

[still sundial]

actually on second read I think the earth weakness stuff is kinda fine, I get the logic

[wooden harbor]

i dont even mind more frequent specials, its just the guaranteed swap on special that's going to be terrible

[chrome lantern]

As a note if it weren’t brought up already, Olm is discussed in the water weakness section but then in the DHW section it says Earth weakness on olm

[meager flame]

idk how i feel about those akkha changes though

[keen hinge]

More frequent specials kinda bad too, as is akkha is alot of rng on speedruns tryna skip specials so u dont get memory which is alot of time lost

[meager flame]

im leaning towards get gud instead of pls nerf on akkha

[chrome lantern]

I honestly feel like this blog is telling me to finish ToA before it’s too late

And gets more annoying

[rare grotto]

I need zebak defence changes or something, or allow us to -30/-40 reduce its defence so we're not stuck on 70% accuracy

[finite tapir]

i would probably increase the chance he swaps on special, make them more frequent, but guarantee that the first X specials (depending on how frequent) do not change his style

[rare grotto]

low skill ceil room with so much hp

[meager flame]

i just find it annoying because for akkha specifically

its just hard its not broken

[finite tapir]

this would make people who do efficient bfly maintain their current bfly timing, while going for the intended feel if you don't know how

[meager flame]

with everything turned on

and people already got good

they're just making it boring now

[sudden bane]

is there anyway to check your vestige rolls if u ever forgot how many 'gold rings or whatever' you had

[winged mantle]

they're adding that

[chrome lantern]

To be clear often times I do end up dealing with him switching styles and even with keep back on I prefer the current system to not being able to butterfly even if I can shadow 2/3 of the fight

[meager flame]

yeah like

doing akkha correctly right now feels good

and you can play out of it if you mess up or he swaps more than you'd have liked

with this you just bop him with a shadow for 2 phases and just idk

dont do the cool stuff lol

[chrome lantern]

Also means with Keep back on I have to deal with that for significantly longer

[meager flame]

yeah thats why the butterfly feels so good

you're rewarded by suddenly being able to like perfectly do the boss instead of having to step back on his attacks

because he's just gonna blow your head off with a melee otherwise

idk i cant see akkha being a better experience after this ngl

[chrome lantern]

To be clear as well, I like engaging with Keep Back properly but it is also true that during meleeing I use like 4x more prayer than butterflying and take like half my health in chip alone. Even if that chip is halved it’s infinitely more than zero damage with proper execution

[meager flame]

unless for some reason you never learned to butterfly

[chrome lantern]

And that’s with me flicking offensives

[meager flame]

they're just ramping up more of the less enjoyable part of the fight

feels like whoever originally wanted to yeet the whole butterfly thing is making their return lol

pls do the boss the way we wanted you to

[remote sphinx]

kinda wish it got the baba treatment tbh. ik they said reducing chip damage but the amount of damage melee does on robes is insane lol

[rare grotto]

?

[meager flame]

keep back

[rare grotto]

kb is an invo u turn on after u are decent at the raid

[chrome lantern]

Also personal note but if changing Duke prep means increasing hp, leave duke alone, I enjoy prep as-is

[meager flame]

yeah i feel like you maybe didn't read the whole thing

[rare grotto]

idk complaining about melee dmg from kb is

means ur not doing the mechanic correctly

[meager flame]

definitely weren't following

[remote sphinx]

i bet they will have to hard adjust the speed ca's at duke

[chrome lantern]

I mean tbf if playing perfectly you’re still taking like 1/5 melees from Keepback while fanging

Which still max like 15 though prayer

Plus the other chip

[remote sphinx]

melee damage from akkha even w/o keepback is insane

[frail bough]

I'm not gonna lie, I think HP should be adjusted to compensate (or something) but 4 phases total is still just as bad. Yama doing 3 phases is literally perfect IMO. Having an intro phase, slightly varied phase, then enrage phase for PNM would make it incredible.

[chrome lantern]

Or you lose 20% dps to 6ting fang

[winged mantle]

being able to do 3 kills in a row will be so good

[rare grotto]

the only reason ppl butterfly is because shadow is by far best dmg on akkha

the dmg from kb does not matter

[fossil epoch]

https://i.imgur.com/LSJ8eCs.png

Fang about to spike

[meager flame]

nobody is arguing about this lol

[finite tapir]

imo duke prep is fine

[analog crow]

nature is healing

[finite tapir]

if duke was a much harder / more intensive boss, sure

i can see it

but it's not

[meager flame]

i was saying you step back all of the attacks because otherwise you take damage and that its less fun

than butterflying correctly

[winged mantle]

idk, I would love for you to be able to prep for a session

but that's just me

[fossil epoch]

My biggest problem with duke is, that i cant relax between kills if i want to get some accidently speed CA's
like you need to asap it, and its impossible on first kc of the trip

[ember token]

i mean its basically 3 phases, the desperation phase is hardly a phase compared to the others

[remote sphinx]

yea duke at the start i didnt like the prep but its grown on me. imo it really needs to be an all of nothing tho

[finite tapir]

then don't do speed CAs currently, and do them when you want to

[meager flame]

i could've explained it better tbf

[frail bough]

This. Having it be impossible 1st KC is dumb as hell.

Prep for 3 kills is incredible though, very big fan.

[rare grotto]

yes i'm saying it's skill issue because why is akkha not melee form and why is kb on if u think the chip dmg is an issue

[fossil epoch]

no worries im not doing the boss currently, i have my vestige, it just sucked having a fight that "starts" without starting it

[chrome lantern]

I got my duke gm on an entry kill

No scythe

[winged mantle]

i may actually pet hunt duke with those changes

[chrome lantern]

Arclight vw on old higher defense

[meager flame]

oh read the blog

[finite tapir]

i do think the timer should start when you actually start prep though, as opposed to when you enter the room or whatever

but i don't think that's a reason to gut or nerf prep

just change when the timer starts

[meager flame]

thats why he wont be in melee form

[slender linden]

PNM should have 3 phases like Yama honestly.

[remote sphinx]

thats just insane rng then lol...99% of people going for the ca thats not going to happen

[rare grotto]

can mage 2/3 phases with the changes

[winged mantle]

the timer should start from when duke wakes up

[ember token]

thats what the change is

[winged mantle]

adjust the time task

[rare grotto]

and it's hard to say something about its chip dmg when they didn't say how much dmg it's being reduced to

[finite tapir]

i think prep time should be counted in timers personally

[chrome lantern]

Technically it’s 4 after

[slender linden]

yea i like this proposed change

[finite tapir]

there's a good little bit of skill and click intensity in how you do prep

[chrome lantern]

2 normal 1 prayer thing and final enrage

[finite tapir]

it's not much, but it is there

[frail bough]

This would be fine too.

[finite tapir]

there's definitely more skill in efficient duke prep than there is in efficient duke itself, at least

[chrome lantern]

I did 1k 40 paste duke kc and 500 kills 1.5ting potions

[slender linden]

oh yea no then i still mean 3 phases. in total

[chrome lantern]

It’s enjoyable

[winged mantle]

my wrists

[ember token]

the desperation phase is not comparable to the other phases unless you're saying it should be changed to take up 33% of the fight

[slender linden]

should go normal,prayer,enrage. adjust the hp to not lower TTK drastically but keep it more engaging and less totemsss

[broken locust]

The number of orbs during Akkha's enrage phase (we're not saying the other thing) has been reduced.

You can say it Jagex lol

[winged mantle]

bayblades

[austere mulch]

Except medic, you say… guess we just need to add it somewhere else

[frail bough]

Agreed.

[slender linden]

i'd like to see phase 1 and 2 get more hp to compensate for TTK but keep kills slightly faster by skipping totem phases

[meager flame]

the baba changes just seem

i mean its not good how it is but lol

[slender linden]

PNM should either way definitely get a buff in TTK, but not too insane obviously

[austere mulch]

We should add Soulflame horn to summer sweep up because it currently is in a really bad spot. At a minimum, it should work with the first accuracy check of dragon claws but ideally it should receive a more general buff either to its effect or usability

[finite tapir]

isnt it beyblade

[meager flame]

its gonna be really easy after those changes

[ember token]

@winter hearth The "new" granite ring stats in the blog are just the same as the current stats

[winter hearth]

Yeah that's a total brainfart, what I get for making imagery at midnight - will get it sorted once chatter dies down a little

[chrome lantern]

Also maybe worth making granite ring not 5kg or whatever it is

[meager flame]

shouldn't like

if you're gonna have the baboons die to the first attack from anything and baba not doing chip damage

there be more monkeys

not less

[chrome lantern]

It’s still more monkeys than red xing and never seeing any

[ember token]

if the buff it gets is significant enough then i'm fine with it being heavy (also it's only 3kg)

[meager flame]

seems like you're just gonna whip out a bp delete them from earth and go back to basically waiting on baba to phase or die

yeah but this is going to turn into just like

not even clicking

just staring at baba

[meager flame]

for a lot of the boss lol

[winged mantle]

new summer sweep changes look great btw - good work jmods

[magic karma]

wait why was dedicated slayee QoL lef tout???

[winter hearth]

Next b log

this is combat/loot focused

next is more skilling/misc

[magic karma]

oooh okay, was scared that i paused my slayer grind for nothing xD

[meager flame]

i really like a lot of the changes but idk about baba and akkha basically

and im done with toa

[winter hearth]

Don't pause your grind

If you want to do Slayer, do Slayer

[meager flame]

so its not like i really care at this point for personal gain or anything

[magic karma]

oh dw, im grinding other stuff

[ember token]

how many blogs are there gonna be?

[meager flame]

i think baba is going in the right direction but like

maybe some more stuff should be happening to make you play the game

[winter hearth]

two, this one and the Slayer/skilling/misc one

[frail bough]

Do we have a general timeframe for slayer blog? Cause that was the thing I was most interested (maybe not after reading today, hot damn!)

[winter hearth]

Not yet no, aiming for within a couple of weeks but also I am drained from Yama and working on this alongside other stuff and wanna find some time to take a few days

[rare grotto]

will there be any additional changes to zebak? was thinking allowing us to reduce its defence a bit more or something

[winged mantle]

too many meatball meteor attacks?

[ember token]

yeah I was gonna estimate probably not next week but the week after to give time for this blog to settle

[remote sphinx]

no. you must work 24/7. your not allowed breaks

[final frigate]

this please, currently the boss is just terrible when it could have so more interesting mechanics instead of being an afk damage tank for 4+ minutes

[magic karma]

honestly with all the toa changes and speeding up the kc, some unique droprate nerf would be justified

[final frigate]

on top of not being able to flick blood barrage in enrage

the fact that you have awful accuracy in all 3 styles even in max is not fun gameplay

[slender vapor]

They really need to hit the insane 8 man scaling more than anything

It's not timmy driving fangs into the ground

[remote sphinx]

even w/o the changes a nerf is justified =p

[rare grotto]

For reference, max defence reduction on a 540 zebak with 9 way range is a bit off 75% accurate

[slender vapor]

It's the guys power farming at 50% purple rate

[magic karma]

true

[chrome lantern]

@winter hearth Goblin, are there any discussions about significantly increasing PNM rates even beyond kill speed? I know this would be like 30% of the fight gone, but I feel like rates should be at least doubled and orbs at least tripled from where they are now to have a meaningful place in any progression
Especially if the intent is to make harm relevant with elemental weakness expansion

[meager flame]

i mean it should've just been clamped

from the start

you should've just stopped getting more loot chance at some point

i know they really wanted people to push 600s or whatever but like

[austere mulch]

Loot tracker

[meager flame]

lol toa rates are nuts

[ember token]

We will not be adjusting drop rates alongside this change.

[void slate]

@winter hearth Hi! Made an account here just to give some feedback on the Obor and Bryo changes.

I'm really not a fan of the rework because of the effect it will have on the Hiscores. if they can be killed on-demand it will completely invalidate the years of work some of the people at the top of the hiscores have put into getting there. Baxlord's 10k Obor kills is absolutely insane and I think it would be a real shame to see the meaning behind that go away, same with Natekay (who at one point was #1 on both Obor and Bryophyta) and some of the other top scorers.

A suggestion was made on the Reddit that perhaps the better solution is to lower or remove the KC combat task, if people are really hating the grind for 10 keys? I also think it's just a loss of a bit of flavour and variety from the game, just adding another key-chest system which there are many of already.

Evenrything else in the blog looked really good though! especially the proposed changes to supply drops

[chrome lantern]

I read that but like

[chrome lantern]

Surely that’s a reasonable ask if it’s even discussed

[chrome lantern]

Right now it’s over 200 hours to get a harm

[finite tapir]

alternatively have it be that not using a key counts kc towards CAs but not towards the hiscores

[meager flame]

i mean

its like contracts

[remote sphinx]

unless they buffed the items themselves it would drop the prices to shit if they did that

[meager flame]

its really obvious the pnm/nm rates are like

[slender linden]

while we are changing flat armour stuff, can we give torags double hitsplats so it opens up more options for lower level players/mid game?

[meager flame]

not really close to reality

but

[finite tapir]

i don't think this is necessary

[meager flame]

they're super hesitant to change them

so we get one thing at a time

[finite tapir]

we have a ton of mid game options atm

[winter hearth]

Not for the time being no, this is a mammoth increase in kph

[slender linden]

its a iconic weapon imo thats why i'd like to see it have some niche use

[chrome lantern]

:( Understand

[finite tapir]

dual macuahuitl is like, pretty good if you don't want to do midgame stuff yet

[chrome lantern]

But yeah even if you double the drop rates few if any people are going to go do pnm at any logical progression

Mace and inq remain post endgame retirement home on ironmen

Orbs remain obscure and megarare

[remote sphinx]

curious are any of these going to be polled? id wager not as its balancing but curious if some are

[meager flame]

i mean yeah its pretty unhinged in general

[chrome lantern]

Even if we just talk gp/hr, if you have gear/stats for efficient pnm, go do nex

[magic karma]

are there any plans on adding new rewards to master/grandmaster CA's?
The thralls timers being moved to master is nice, since the realase of rewards we only got more effort for same reward. Would be nice to add some more rewards for the added CA's overtime

[winter hearth]

No plans to, same as PRB

[meager flame]

its like how corp spirit shields are just

[finite tapir]

and if you do want to do midgame stuff on an iron or whatever, zhasta and tent whip are like pretty good

[meager flame]

crazy people numbers

[finite tapir]

and neither are particularly hard to get on a mid lvl iron too

maybe the tent part bc of tasks/rate but the whip is free

[slender linden]

does every CA tier move up in points when new achievements are released?

[old tinsel]

Could this second blog about slayer have any hydra changes!?!

[analog crow]

Can we also at least add the slepey tablet to regular nightmare's loot table? Ideally it would just not exist, but that would also work.

[finite tapir]

only the tiers which gain cas

[slender linden]

sorry whats that?

[finite tapir]

if there are more hard tasks, all hard-and-above points go up

[void slate]

possibly, although if the Obor drops keys at a high rate it'll still make grinding kc (which would presumably be measured by chest access) much much quicker, and just fundamentally different and more like every other boss in the game

[slender linden]

ahh

[meager flame]

yeah honestly can people just have the slepey tablet

if they get like

[finite tapir]

if there's a new easy task, all CA tiers go up

[meager flame]

1 pnm kc

lol

[slender linden]

dang i thought i'd get higher tiers easier the more bosses would come, but i see thats not how it works haha

[finite tapir]

new gm task = only the gm tier is affected (obviously)

[analog crow]

yeah it's a needless rng wall

[finite tapir]

well i mean jagex are like sorta confused on what tiers CAs should be

[meager flame]

its so unnecessary on top of everything else going on it feels bad also having to trek forever

[magic karma]

yea would be nice if some new rewards would come out to CA's if we keep getting to do more CA's

[finite tapir]

so there's a handful of free tasks that come out

so like

[winter hearth]

No changes to NPCs specifically in the next one, if it were a boss being changed then it'd've (apostrophes) been included here!

Also love the POE2 profile pic thing

[stone cloak]

Any guess as to how long itd take to get all this stuff in and is it all gonna be in one big update or in chunks like what varlamore is getting

[finite tapir]

it's crazy how many GM/master tasks are like, not actually anywhere close to some of the other ones, but whatever

[civic ginkgo]

TBF, if the slepey tab was given at 1kc, that would be enough for people to want to try it more

Because the runback is brutal

[slender linden]

yeah i'd really like a slepey tablet lol

[old tinsel]

Thank you thank you

[slender linden]

would give me more incentive to return to pho

[meager flame]

yeah its just kinda the cherry on top of the boss already not being super worth doing

[civic ginkgo]

Go see a doctor, they give slepey tablets

[wooden harbor]

so running some numbers, with the changes to akkha, we would be butterflying for 60 seconds, and then have another ~60 seconds of no butterflying, and then be able to butterfly for another 60 seconds.

[meager flame]

they hit you with the terrible run back and rng teleport lol

[remote sphinx]

@winter hearth curious with yama on the mind still can MoD potentially be looked at with these changes too?

[slender linden]

i hate this fly mechanic so much. yet another weird mechanic i need to learn 😛

[finite tapir]

how would you feel about like, 1 pnm kc = tablet tps you to where it currently is, and then the current slepey tablet drop would be some kind of upgrade which puts you right next to pnm

so there's still an incentive to farm pnm past 1 kc

[meager flame]

they're already getting untold hours out of you if you start farming pnm

they could be nice with the tablet i think

[finite tapir]

would also mean there's an incentive to improve for that one clue step in the sanctuary too

[analog crow]

Yeah sure, that would also work

[void slate]

Heading off now but I hope this can be looked at... I think it would just be really sad to see those achievements lose their significance

[slender linden]

you can remember the sick achievements!

[civic ginkgo]

My biggest flex in the game is top 3000 in the obor hiscores

[drowsy saffron]

Petition to let zebak keep washing people

Mistakes are allowed to be funny!

Damage is only boring

[civic ginkgo]

But I don't think many people are gonna be flocking to obor just for a high score, some will, but not a lot

[crude zodiac]

Could you please look into my UIM being banned :/ for botting. its a false ban. I jus started it two days ago and all i've done are quests.

[finite tapir]

i was saying earlier to maybe have waves still push people back but have it slow down so it's easier to react to? alternatively removing the stall you get could work too

[winter hearth]

I don't work in player support, but based on your pfp and Discord name I'd advise you call Saul :/

[slender linden]

u lost 2 days progress no biggie

[crude zodiac]

:/ I was excited to do this uim

[civic ginkgo]

Make another

[dim ridge]

make a new one and dont bot this time

[crude zodiac]

The name i put on it is what matters

I didn't bot.

[civic ginkgo]

That's what a botter would say

[slender linden]

we will miss nOtaB0t23

[crude zodiac]

I recordeded all progress too

i literally have video evidence

[void slate]

I feel like part of the appeal of this game is that it keeps things that used to be major achievements significant forever (e.g. making sure a big bank or powerful weapon isn't worthless after a couple of years, or having the first person to get 200m in a skill be at the top of Hiscores on that skill forever). Someone can only overtake you if tehy put in more effort than you did (at least within a reasonable bounds, I'm not saying that all power creep is automatically bad, but it should be in small increments)

[dim ridge]

The internet has taught me that no matter what the game, people who claim they were falsely banned were almost never falsely banned and they know this already.

[slender linden]

yeah fair point. i can imagine it would suck to lose your rank 1 obor, or make it trivialized by a update for said person (why else would they grind rank 1) but i think thats such a niche issue (affects at most rank 1 or first pagers of a boss) that its a sacrifice for the greater good imo

Badger if you didnt bot submit a appeal. false bans usually get lifted that way, no worries.

[civic ginkgo]

Imo, not going forward with the changes to obor and bryo is putting the wants of a few to the needs of the many

[crude zodiac]

Which sucks because I know as a player base y'all are jaded but it sucks when real people being honest are treated like they are lying.

[civic ginkgo]

Ok badger, we get it, you didn't bot

[slender linden]

it's a case of fool me once.. sorry bud

[dim ridge]

You told us you botted though, you just don't realize how.

[final frigate]

@winter hearth Please consider revisiting zebak's (mage/range) defenses at high invo, currently it has awful variance due to low accuracy even in max gear on all 3 styles hovering around 70% while also having next to no real mechanics. Also possibly adjust the timing of blood barrages during lv4+ enrage so that they are flickable along with his regular attacks instead of being unavoidable healing.

[void slate]

Honestly with Obor/Byro I think it's more than just the first pagers, there's about 60 people who've got over 1000 Obor kc, and quite a few more who look like they're aiming for it. it would also be very easy to just remove the 10KC CA, or maybe somehow give players a few 'free' keys so that they can get their 10KC (as 10 keys is pretty irrelevant to the hiscores). in any case, I don't think killing a thousand or so hill giants is a huge grind in the grand scheme of things for people going for CAs. It's definitely a solvable problem without ruining the hiscores

[slender linden]

i hope ToA changes will lower purps at the high end and increase it at the lower end tbh

signed, a player who cant do high invo's

[true talon]

Im glad jagex noticed that the reason methods like this exist, is because the boss is not fun to interact with and if thats the case thats a not a very good design. these changes are absolutely great and if i wasnt done with TOA, i would go back lol.

[final frigate]

anything below 440 is tutorial though, just consider them as learning the base raid

instead of 0 as the base and higher invo as learning extra

things like current fs/sv insanity upset stomach etc

if they were base nobody would complain

[civic ginkgo]

They said they want us to discuss the changes to toa uniques

[final frigate]

but because they're additional people find it difficult to learn

[rare frost]

Um no 350s are not toa tutorials I'm sorry

[slender linden]

all i know is my friend gets wiped at 250-300 invos all the time

[rare grotto]

350 has half of the invos turned off m8

[civic ginkgo]

Yeah they really aren't, it's easy to say that when you are good at TOA, but when you're on the other end of the stick, that's not true

[plucky roost]

"The Grandmaster Combat Achievement reward that increases the duration of summoned Thralls to 2 minutes will be moved down to Master. This is probably the reward that feels the most impactful and the most frustrating of the rewards to lose on a new release, so we'd like to bump it down to alleviate frustrations from GM players and make something that feels impactful just a smidge more attainable."

So does this mean the duration boost that you currently get for master will be moved down to elite, or just removed?

[rare grotto]

and regardless, zebak variance persists across all invocations past 300

even for speedrun 300s zebak is deadly variant

for the simple fact that ur accuracy is piss there

[slender linden]

i learned to solo yama pretty quickly, what invo lvl can i probably do? (i have never done a ToA, i took a long break from osrs before it got released)

i cant red x, prayer flick or butterfly.

[rare frost]

As someone who normally runs 300-350 the difference in mechanics and gear reqs between 300 and a 450 is massive

But to say a 300 is free is a lie

[rare grotto]

it is beyond free

[civic ginkgo]

As I said, for some it's free, for others it's not

[slender linden]

well i probably could learn it, but i dont want to cuz im lazy

[civic ginkgo]

It's easy to say that something is free when you have done it hundreds of times

[rare grotto]

paraplegics have done awakened bosses and ur saying 300s aren't free

lol

[knotty plover]

anyone know when the summer sweep up changes will be live????

[slender linden]

thats the dumbest arguement i've seen today

[civic ginkgo]

In the summer probably

[knotty plover]

start or end of summer

[rare frost]

Also most of these changes don't actually make toa easier

[civic ginkgo]

No idea, that will come at a later date

[rare frost]

Just quicker or more fair

[quiet plank]

The summer sweep up looks so good

[rare grotto]

??

did u even read the changes

[quiet plank]

Giant boss updy

Update

[true talon]

@winter hearth Morning, I wanted to ask a question about demonbane and the balance of melee vs magic, as it currently stands Dark demonbane being 5 tick and less max hits than emberlight is an astronimical DPS loss anywhere youd fight a demon, on yama its currently a 25% dps loss to mage over melee. while other demon related encounters are the same problem. is it possible to bring dark demonbane down to 4 tick to have all 3 demonbane weps on same playing field? i ran the calcs on yama and 4 tick demonbane would not uproot melee and it also has a very high cost attached to it. I been wanting to get your insight or reasoning for why magic is just very weak, ive been doing mage role for my duo which makes the fight better when playing with my non maxed/geared iron friend, as i handle the mechanics. just im doing a lot less dps than i should, because of how weak demonbane is. its 1 tick slower, 2 max hits less and upwards of 1-1:30 slower than if i was using melee.

[rare frost]

Yeah I did

Having lower mage def on kephri scarabs literally only affect kill times

[rare grotto]

love how u glossed over the fact that u have 100% dmg reduction from baba's attacks

[compact flicker]

Lower kill times makes the fight easier in essence

[rare grotto]

and 2 waves are deleted, and u one shot the baboons etc

no bombs under warden p2

i can go on.

[slender linden]

I feel like ever since i started in 2004 magic has always been the most useless combat style of all 3 but thats just me

[rare frost]

Baba should always have scaled like that, it was dumb and forced flinching

[rare grotto]

tell me u don't have a shadow without telling me u don't have a shadow

[rare frost]

Now it's fair

[slender linden]

I do lol

[rare grotto]

is this advanced ragebait

how is a boss that only attacks with melee and can't dmg u with protect melee fair

u literally cannot die in that room

[dim ridge]

magic is always
1). More expensive than melee
2). Worse than melee

no exceptions

[rare frost]

If you mechanically understand it

[slender linden]

True

[rare frost]

Trust me you'll still get gapped

[civic ginkgo]

So because shadow is good, that makes all magic good? Weird

[rare frost]

It rewards skill expression and not just "2 ticks under 2 ticks back" for 4 mins

[dim ridge]

magic was worse before shadow

[slender linden]

Yea lol that wasnt even the point but to his detriment i actually own one

[dim ridge]

but shadow stopped them from fixing it for 2 years

[civic ginkgo]

It's almost like the community has been complaining about the gap between shadow and every other magical weapon for a long time

[rare frost]

Red x being required for high invo is dumb I'm sorry, it makes baba less fun

[rare grotto]

it's not required at high invo

[ember token]

the wording sounds like the perk is removed from GM and the master perk is changed to be 100% duration increase instead of 50%

[true talon]

This wasnt a discussion for shadow, just that dark demonbane is to weak to be used literally anywhere. high cost, less dps and not very rewarding overall.

[rare frost]

Do a 500 baba with dehydration and without red x then lol

Good luck having supper for the rest of the raid

[civic ginkgo]

It wasn't your comment that caused this discussion bud, don't worry

[rare grotto]

yeah this is bait

[slender linden]

Ive had 3 times that i ran out of fire runes during a yama fight 🤣 once at like 50hp left. That fire rune cost even after the change is so annoying

[civic ginkgo]

Gotta keep your pouch full at all times 😂

[true talon]

I dont mind the cost, but the dps + the cost is another thing, if your magin your doing 25% less dps than emberlight lol

[rare frost]

Coming from a guy that sells kits

Yeah it turns out toa can be difficult, that's why they buy kits mate

[slender linden]

Took me 3 weeks to figure i should put bloods in pouch and fire runes out of pouch. Like i said im not the best player around

[rare grotto]

u can overcome any difficulty with a bit of practise, hence my paraplegic comment

it's just a victim mentality moment

(too prevalent in osrs)

[rare frost]

Sure but that doesn't mean it's not hard bro

[bronze kernel]

You know, could we have Crumble Undead scale with your levels? Make it have the base damage of the highest elemental spell you can cast +50%?

[rare grotto]

it's hard when you're learning, and then you learn it and it's easy

[civic ginkgo]

Don't worry, we all get there in the end!

[rare frost]

No it stays hard, you just get better

[frail bough]

Understanding something and being able to execute easily after practice doesn't make it not hard.

[bronze kernel]

The spell is in shambles

[slender linden]

I dont disagree with this but also dont think every boss/raid should have some weird/crazy/non intuitive mechanics we should need to learn but thats just my two cents

[still sundial]

I just made thread for it in https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1377972371721289799 🙏

[slender linden]

I like dodge stepping the fireballs at yama and learning that. I dont like learning a weird run pattern with ticks to avoid stuff

[rare grotto]

i mean thats just ppl optimizing it

u don't need to do it?

[slender linden]

True and i dont

But seems like they are necesarry at toa high invos

[rare frost]

Except you kinda do, I'm pretty sure no one has a 600 completion without red x, correct me if I'm wrong

[slender linden]

Exactly

[final frigate]

you can also just manual click under baba like at nex

yellow clicks

redx just makes it afk

[slender linden]

Why are we moving under a boss anyways ?

[rare frost]

It's still flinching though

[slender linden]

Weird gimmick man.

[rare grotto]

well if you're at the point of 600 you realize you want to make it as easy as possible?

you don't need to do it

blood fury exist

[true talon]

This just making the boss trigger a shockwave to not interact with it, this isnt really any diffirent from red-x

[final frigate]

yeah you said no redx

this is yellow

[true talon]

point of the changes is to make you fight the boss, not use methods to bypass interacting with it

[final frigate]

[rare frost]

Exactly

[slender linden]

Reward correct moves/prayers at bosses, not some weird mechanic

[final frigate]

also the current 5:1 doesn't even redx

[rare grotto]

what do you mean

[final frigate]

which is the optimal strategy

[rare grotto]

you're literally afking under the boss yellow clicking

punishing urself by making it slower

[final frigate]

5:1 is more interactive and requires more brain than redx

so wws

[slender linden]

I say we shouldnt have to move under the boss anyways

[true talon]

Facts, olm would be better if you could re-act to his auto's and have to actually deal with his specials.

[final frigate]

should we remove 5:1

[slender linden]

Yep

[rare grotto]

yes but now the argument's been shifted like 2 times now

[winter hearth]

I so vehemently disagree with this

[final frigate]

(goblin zebak please)

[winter hearth]

I know it feels like, esoteric and weird but learning solo Olm is some of the most fun you'll have in the game

[true talon]

Hey answer my demonbane question 😦 and yea solo olm currently is fun.

[winter hearth]

just swapping prayers to react to projectiles and then dealing with some trivial-ish specials would make it a horrible fight

[slender linden]

I did all my solo cox with deathpiles cuz i couldnt be bothered learning it

[rare grotto]

solo olm makes u FEEL ticks/4t cycle which is so prevalent in the game

[winter hearth]

You should haveb othered!

[rare grotto]

very rewarding if u get it right

[slender linden]

Its ok the rng gods dropped me a tbow anyways

[winter hearth]

I can't rn I've gotta get another post up but I swear you asked this yesterday and loads of people pushed back on you with calcs

Melee is broadly harder to use without missing ticks, I don't think the styles need to be equivalent, but I haven't read your thing in full

[last onyx]

Allow halberds to hit 'flying' enemies like Aviansies.

ooft

[civic ginkgo]

What's wrong with that

[last onyx]

about to chop some feet off

[civic ginkgo]

Nice

[slender linden]

I know thus has probably been said enough but i’d like to say i havent had this much fun with a new boss in ages. yama is awesome

[true talon]

They did push back on me, but not with the calcs, the only concern was it was strong at kril and TD's but it only improved TD's by 1 second and kril well you are not gonna do GWD on arecus to kill the boss 3 seconds faster. the Biggest difference was at yama in which it brought the 25% melee gap down and had mage/melee be even. we are talking a 60+ second kill difference between base melee and base magic, before even factoring in 3 tick emberlight.

[compact flicker]

I actually tried doing that a few years back and was sad that we couldn't

[civic ginkgo]

You can be happy now

[last onyx]

was at bottom of update list 🙂

[urban surge]

Is there an ETA on when the rebalance updates are going live does anyone know?

[compact flicker]

I no longer do avianses sadly

[civic ginkgo]

I don't blame you, I only did one task

[true talon]

@winter hearth This is the current calcs btw (i used eldermaul, because horn alt is meta) there is no ammount of magic lvl or magic defense reduction that improves magic to be the same as melee or even close.

[meager flame]

idk if i would say olm would be better if you couldn't do the head turning that we currently do lol

[true talon]

75 second kill speed difference

[meager flame]

i can see how those changes would be better if you were doing olm as god intended i guess though

[ember token]

looks like we need to buff scorching bow too

[meager flame]

but we already found alternative solutions to olm

[tough nacelle]

I'm curious where the Toa changes will go

[ember token]

they all have to do identical damage to emberlight

[bronze kernel]

Melee Kree

[tough nacelle]

As reduce the phase that shall not be named

[true talon]

Scorching is not even close to intended on yama, but magic has 8% less dps than range lol

[civic ginkgo]

I don't know, emberlight is more of a pain to get then the other two

[meager flame]

idk if i'd really say its more of a pain

[tough nacelle]

Is overall good, and reducing chip damage helps, I wonder what the plan is to make it less of a slog tick perfect fest

At 400+

[civic ginkgo]

Yes, it is a pain

[meager flame]

theres more stuff happening but like

just playing the game correctly ensures you'll have the stuff for emberlight

[tough nacelle]

Will it just be less worth it?

[meager flame]

like

you're not going to just not go to the catacombs and train slayer

[tough nacelle]

To keep people at 300-400?

[meager flame]

etc

and if you do choose to do that i mean

those are the consequences of being wrong i guess lol

but its not like you go out of your way currently to get the shards for your arclight into emberlight

its just gonna happen

[civic ginkgo]

There's still hours of extra grind to get emberlight

If you don't have shards

I went out of my way to get shards

[tough nacelle]

Also wondering if sleepy tablet can be added to pnm at a fixed kc

[true talon]

I only bring this up, because the balance is so far off that your literally griefing to be doing the mechanical role of magic for your duo.

[tough nacelle]

Maybe 10? Instead of the grind it currently has

[meager flame]

it already is

we were trying to get it lowered to something basically instant but

its at 100 currently iirc

[tough nacelle]

Isn't it 1/100 without guaranteed

[meager flame]

no it drops on the 100th

if you dont have it

[tough nacelle]

Either way, 100 is too rare imo

Dt2 is what? 1/25?

[meager flame]

yeah its pretty nuts

[tough nacelle]

With much faster kc

[meager flame]

i figure it could just drop on 1 kc honestly like

[civic ginkgo]

Nah guaranteed, but it should be lowered

[tough nacelle]

And baseline shorter runs

[final frigate]

540s are currently like 2x purp chance of 400 lol no way people are going down there

[meager flame]

they're already asking for a lot just expecting you to do pnm

they shouldn't also hurt you with the tablet lol

[final frigate]

especially with how reclined 540s are

[tough nacelle]

Sure, but we know drops are being adjusted

And lol 540s are not reclined

[meager flame]

i mean those changes

[final frigate]

od makes it way more chill

just click boss

[meager flame]

basically delete baba which is good and bad? lol if thats possible

red x is a little nuts but

[tough nacelle]

I wish they capped drop rates

[meager flame]

that boss needs to actually have something going on too

if they're not going to threaten you with anything

[tough nacelle]

But the uniques are too strong vs difficulty of lower tier raid

[slender vapor]

Not like baba has much going on being stuck in the same shadow smash loop

[meager flame]

yeah but at least you're clicking

[tough nacelle]

But reality is they shouldn't push you to do tanky boring fights for 30 minutes

[chrome nova]

Yep. This is the problem with toa. When it released they were expecting people to send 300s at most not be constantly sending 540s

[final frigate]

same for kephri only diff is faster dung and ovls, akkha you bf the same, zebak is the same but faster

[meager flame]

baba would be less intimidating than graardor after those changes

[tough nacelle]

Because the raid is really fun at 300

250-325 imo is peak Toa fun

[civic ginkgo]

This is why they want us to discuss unique drop rate

[chrome nova]

And? Deserved for all the pain and suffering he's caused

[meager flame]

i just feel like if they're going to want you to interact with the boss

[chrome nova]

Right now you all just red x him and skip the mechanics anyways lol

[nocturne solstice]

Well now you'll actually be clicking and dealing with baboons and boulders being thrown at you

[meager flame]

they need to make sure there is a boss to interact with

[chrome nova]

Yep

[nocturne solstice]

Rather than ignoring them completely

[meager flame]

yeah but lol just actually imagine it for a second

you're giga reclined right

[slender vapor]

Good thing i tossed pink ammo into my BP

[meager flame]

you bp some apes down that spawn way less for no reason

1 hit them

make sure you're next to a rock

probably afk for awhile

oh he did 1 shadow attack click

idk lol

[chrome nova]

I think something like HM Tob where only the rarer uniques get more common at higher raid levels would work well

[nocturne solstice]

Is the implication that you're super not giga reclined while red-x ing?

[chrome nova]

I wouldn't call toa "giga reclined" lol

[civic ginkgo]

I mean, to keep the TOA elite happy, you could make it so Baba does chip damage at higher invos

[meager flame]

im talking about with those changes

[chrome nova]

He already does at higher invos

[meager flame]

you could max baba out and the only thing that could stop you is getting yeeted into the hole or not knowing how to intermission

[chrome nova]

And? The hard part of baba is boulders anyways

[civic ginkgo]

Not with the changes (unless you have the prayer invos ofc)

[meager flame]

its basically going to be just as boring as red x is what im getting at

they're just replacing clicking with slightly less clicking

well probably more than slightly

[nocturne solstice]

I wouldnt call it boring, since its interacting with more mechanics compared to you know.

None

[chrome nova]

It's more interesting clicking instead of just repeating over and over

[civic ginkgo]

I mean, if you listen to what people are saying, 540s are reclined anyway

Well one person

[chrome nova]

Anyone who says 540s are reclined needs to take a shower and go outside, lol

[meager flame]

yeah but interacting with mechanics =/= being challenged

its just going to be a big monkey that you slap for a bit

as long as you dont actually go to sleep not much will be happening

[chrome nova]

Reminder that you can still red x with this change

[nocturne solstice]

I dont think we were talking about challenging were we?

[civic ginkgo]

Isn't that what red xing is anyway?

[chrome nova]

Baba is supposed to be Tekton tier lol

[civic ginkgo]

Slapping the monkey until it dies

[nocturne solstice]

The only rooms "challenging" is like, wardens and Akkha

[meager flame]

yeah but red x comes with the caveat that if you mess up you're actually in danger and properly red xing baba is not the way it used to be

[chrome nova]

Not Wardens tier. Akkha is also not supposed to be yet is way harder than any cox boss

[meager flame]

you actually take hits and dont lose tons of damage

[chrome nova]

Only rooms that are challenging in tob are nylo, maiden and verzik

[meager flame]

i think removing the red x stuff is probably for the best

[civic ginkgo]

Yeah, but if you know the raid well enough to be in danger if you mess up red xing, you aren't gonna mess it up

[meager flame]

i just think they should also make the boss actually do something too

[true talon]

Sad that giant and mossy keys got removed before awakener orbs 😦

[chrome nova]

Yeppp

Also the 100 pizzas per attempt is kinda ridiculous. Make it 500-1000 for permanent unlock or 10-25 per attempt lol

One attempt at a practice boss should not cost 250k

Or 100k

[meager flame]

at least buff the warriors guild food shop pizza supply

[civic ginkgo]

Make your own pizzas, ez

[meager flame]

hopping for 5 pizza at a time is nuts

[chrome nova]

I mean yes but then you've traded it out for fighting for supply and spending 30 minutes hopping per attempt. And for irons this is the only option

[meager flame]

lmao meet in the middle thats at least still making your pineapple pizza ultimately

[frail bough]

100 regular pizzas or
50 pineapple pizzas

[sand gazelle]

I do like the change to duke. The fight itself is great and chill. I have been doing high intensity feeding him mushrooms to save time on prep for a while now

[chrome nova]

I wonder how much gp/h buying pizzas from warriors guild is rn

Or making pineapple ones

Probably at least a mil I'm guessing

[true talon]

I actually like the obor and bryo change. having the keys unlock the loot chest, but not to fight the boss. means you can do the bosses and on like a mossy or hill giant task benefit from early bossing.

[chrome nova]

I do wish we got infinite prep like leagues. It made me genuinely enjoy the boss

[true talon]

awakener keys and contracted keys would been way better than what we currently have

[civic ginkgo]

I was kidding don't worry

[true talon]

open the loot after the boss is defeated, not gatekeep being able to attempt it

[chrome nova]

Oh wait you still have to get a key to unlock the chest? Didn't read that part, rip

[civic ginkgo]

Can we talk about echo kq being a better fight then reg kq

[true talon]

Ya but the boss will drop the keys themself

[chrome nova]

I didn't pick desert but can we talk about the same thing with echo cerb and normal (I didn't pick asgarnia either)

[tacit pendant]

They are getting rid of pnm phase 1!!! They listen!

[chrome nova]

I've never done PNM, what's that one

[civic ginkgo]

Yeah, I genuinely think most echos are better than the original

[true talon]

IE if you were to do the same to awakener orbs.
Youd get a awakener key from normal dt2 bosses, you then go fight the awakened version, if you prove victorious you get a piece of blood torva kit and can open a grand chest with a specialized drop table, the boss themself drop the awakener keys. wow this sytem actually sounds sick........

[sand gazelle]

Idk if I like that change to the giants bosses. It’s weird and unique currently and you feel more pressure when you only have x attempts (Obor mainly feels way harder than his combat level).

[chrome nova]

Was gonna do normal nightmare on the gim until we got spooned sotd's

[sand gazelle]

Plus chest drop<ground drop

[chrome nova]

True

Also permanent unlock would be pog

Make it like idk 20% more loot per hour if you're doing it perfectly

[sand gazelle]

Surprised that cg is not addressed here as that is one of the most unfun slogs in the game to get an enhanced and they really made it way more interesting with echo

[chrome nova]

Which in reality for 99% of players will be 50% less per hour, 10% more for a few people, and 20% more for port khazard

[chrome nova]

Yepppp

[tacit pendant]

So its just a repeat of p1 for p2

[chrome nova]

Same with echo sol and charging quiver. But really 150k was just too much to begin with

[civic ginkgo]

I know they aren't difficult, but even the dag kings were better in echo

[chrome nova]

Lmao, so kinda like yama p1 vs p2?

[tacit pendant]

So getting rid of phase 1, makes the fight 20% shorter, which also increases effective drops per hour

[meager flame]

yeah its ultimately not enough of a drop rate buff but it is a huge buff to having fun doing the fight

so its a good thing

[chrome nova]

Eh, I disagree

[meager flame]

they'll probably be back around on the next project rebalance for another drop rate adjustment tho lol

[chrome nova]

Actually wait without leagues encouraging camping one style you might be right

[meager flame]

dunno why they're playing

[chrome nova]

Also did we really need to reduce the drop rates of chaos runes?

I get blood runes but chaos runes really?

[tacit pendant]

These toa changes are a lot

[civic ginkgo]

They want to make chaos runes profitable again

[chrome nova]

Yeah but why, they haven't been like ever

[meager flame]

yeah i unconditionally like the kephri changes

im not sure i actually want the akkha changes

[sand gazelle]

As someone who charged quiver before the changes to corrupting quiver, I like the way they handled this. Sunfire splinters are one of the best handled consumables in the game. If you didn’t need that many, then they’d end up like ancient essence from muspah

[meager flame]

and i'd prefer the baba fight be a little more fun probably if possible

[chrome nova]

150k means irons need to do almost 40 full Colo runs, or do wave 1 2000 times

[meager flame]

its going to be pretty dry doing the mechanics but in reality taking no damage and not really doing anything still

[true talon]

I mean you can buy choas runes, they already have a floor price. bosses dropping them doesnt really change anything.

[sand gazelle]

This is true, but you do not need to get 150k splinters to get max benefit from the quiver

[chrome nova]

And "fuck irons" but the thing is if a grind sucks for irons that means it sucks for anyone to do by themselves

[meager flame]

yeah the ironman thing is mostly a meme

[chrome nova]

Oh right I forgot about the infusion change

[meager flame]

if it sucks for irons thats just a big red flag that it sucks to interact with

people overthink it a lot lol

[chrome nova]

I've seen people here unironically say "if you don't like it then deiron" while dismissing this fact

[final frigate]

have you seen the splinter prices

[sand gazelle]

Still like 400 gp?

[chrome nova]

Idk I just don't see why inferno 2 had to also be the best moneymaker in the game

[final frigate]

yeah colo feeling real good i think

[meager flame]

i mean honestly

[sand gazelle]

Oh dang

[meager flame]

they could've gotten away with it not being a money maker

[true talon]

This is because of wave 1 shards, which really needs to be removed.

[meager flame]

its cool that they mostly succeeded with it though

[chrome nova]

For people complaining about how things shit out alchables Colo really does exactly that.

[true talon]

wave 1 shards needs to fucking go

[meager flame]

but they did kind of take a risk

[tacit pendant]

The akkha changes seem good. Like it just means irons dont have to suffer using trident as much

[final frigate]

there's also just no real use of splinters

[sand gazelle]

Well tbh its only the best if you make it to and clear wave 12 every time. If you die you get nothing

[tacit pendant]

I havent fully digested toa changes yet tho

[meager flame]

and yeah they should curb stomp the loot from the first 5 waves

and put it all in the later waves

[chrome nova]

No actually the problem is the wave 1 bots

[true talon]

well no wave1 shards then no wave 1 bots

[final frigate]

at the cost of terrible high invo akkhas

[true talon]

its that simple

[meager flame]

i know how they talk about colo but like

if you cant get past wave 5 just go do something else

[rare grotto]

this is misleading

[chrome nova]

No, they would just bot wave 3-4

[meager flame]

they didnt need to reward people for that

[rare grotto]

it makes it sound like 540s are the main culprit

when in reality 8 man 400s cap purple chance which can be done way faster with worse gear

[meager flame]

yeah there should just be a cap on loot chance that comes in

[rare grotto]

mind you with 0 brainpower

[meager flame]

way earlier than it does

[chrome nova]

400s were also not intended to be constantly sent

[rare grotto]

😭

[civic ginkgo]

It's not misleading TBF, a lot has changed in three years

[obsidian venture]

I would like them to look at zebaks hp pool and how meh it is at higher invos.
Akkhas changes are interesting for lower invos (sub400) but im curious as to how the overall time will be affected by this, especially when doing 500+

[chrome nova]

I think the cap should be at 300, and anything higher just makes the rarer drops more common

[obsidian venture]

300s were supposed to be endgame but got completed in 3 hours on release

[final frigate]

hp and/or defenses

[sand gazelle]

I think it’s in a healthy place. You get a few hundred thousand gp from first few waves in like 5-10 min. I can’t count how many times I have had to stop a run early due to family concerns

[chrome nova]

Yes exactly. They didn't balance higher level raids

[final frigate]

ideally enrage blood barrages too that shit is mega cringe

[meager flame]

yeah the akkha stuff i kind of dont like from the pov of actually doing akkha with the invocations

but its probably better for people who do it on the lower end

[chrome nova]

Yep. Exactly this. We really shouldn't have had the charge mechanic in the first place tho. Don't need to charge infernal cape, ma2 cape, or avas

[tender harness]

am I reading that right theyre finally making Baba actually palpable?

holy

[meager flame]

i mean honestly i just think you should get 0 gp for doing wave 1 to 5

wave 6 and onward though should give you the rewards you would've gotten from the first 5 though

and the rewards they always give

[chrome nova]

When they finally release mage upgrade watch it take 12 different currencies and need 3 different uniques that you have to combine and also require charging with blood runes

Oh and also degrade to dust

[rare grotto]

ironman problem

so not a real problem

[chrome nova]

Did you not read the thing before that if content is bad for ironman that's probably a red flag that it sucks to engage with in general

[civic ginkgo]

I've never seen someone have so many bad takes

[tender harness]

Obor and Bryophyta can drop their own respective keys.```
![kekw](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/997907574034792498.webp?size=128 "kekw")  I can actually give a damn and finish those CAs now

[chrome nova]

Lmao

[rare grotto]

it's just not true

[sand gazelle]

I’m nervous about this weighting thing about purples from toa. I feel like it’s good for the game but need to go rebuy fang and lightbearer now 😅

[obsidian venture]

Also concerning baba, 5:1 was a form of skill expression at least. Another thing to note is that, you didn’t mention thrall hp. They’re more tanky than other mobs

[civic ginkgo]

Fang and LB are up in price already

[meager flame]

i mean it is ironman is just another way of saying someone personally interacted with each step of the content

[rare grotto]

pnm is a good example, sick fight and not ironman friendly at all

[meager flame]

if that sucks

thats not a good sign

[chrome nova]

Type of person to say Phosani, Corp and Nex have no problems with them looooool

[obsidian venture]

The inferno thing is interesting but you should lose access if you lose gm due to new cas

[chrome nova]

😂😂😂😂😂

Lmao called it

[obsidian venture]

Unless it tends to work like that

[sand gazelle]

Still have a chance~

[chrome nova]

Phosani is one of the most aids fights I've seen ever

[tender harness]

Players with the Grandmaster Combat Achievements completed will be able to to show their Zuk helm to the TzHaar and gain on-task damage bonuses without any of the other on-task benefits, for those speedrunners out there.
gzwerbgospeeds

[obsidian venture]

In regard to the fight? No. Drops sure

[rare grotto]

it's by far one of the best designed fights in osrs

[meager flame]

the question i want to ask about that

[rare grotto]

ironmen just complaining about being ironmen doesn't take anything away from the fight

[civic ginkgo]

I imagine they'll be getting gobbled up for when they make them rarer

[meager flame]

is did they mean inside of the inferno

or did they just mean anywhere

[sand gazelle]

Phosani’s you can do perfectly though right? No chip? Tbh I have never attempted

[rare grotto]

autos don't do chip dmg yeah

[obsidian venture]

Basically yes

[chrome nova]

I mean the fight maybe, I havent done it. But I've watched people do it and you need so many esoteric supplies and also the loot is ass garbage

[rare grotto]

???

u haven't done the fight but u are complaining about it

[obsidian venture]

If you haven’t done it then why are you arguing lmao

[rare grotto]

what the fuck

l000l

peak delusion 👍

[chrome nova]

OK I did it once on leagues and it was ass, one shot mechanics out the ass

[rare grotto]

[meager flame]

pnm is a great boss fight improved by removing a p1

[tender harness]

Leagues fight is not remotely the same as live

[chrome nova]

You get hit for like 70 if you fuck up anything

[meager flame]

all of the bad stuff about it is kind of

[obsidian venture]

@minor whale another example btw of if you haven’t done content, your opinion should be limited

[meager flame]

just loot and location

[rare grotto]

this guy telling me i have bad takes when he hasn't done the content btw

ah yes

[obsidian venture]

Not directly at pyro but it was for an earlier convo way back

[rare grotto]

lemme just go on reddit to form my opinion

[civic ginkgo]

You do have bad takes

[tender harness]

doing something on leagues does not give you any right to have an opinion on something you have not done on live. so keep your opinions to yourself

thanks

[chrome nova]

This is true

[obsidian venture]

Also I’m glad Goblin cooked Tass

@gaunt kestrel

[meager flame]

tbf if you're being reasonable you can look at pnm rates and expected kill times and know something is wrong

[civic ginkgo]

Your take on ironman is diabolical

[chrome nova]

This frfr

[meager flame]

i definitely wouldn't advise someone like that to discuss the actual boss mechanics but

[obsidian venture]

What take

[meager flame]

you can see the time investment and reward ratio

as anyone

[rare grotto]

people just can't handle the fact that majority of players aren't ironmen and can stay rationally about the fact that ironman catered content is generally worse for the game

[obsidian venture]

Yeah reducing the phase is fine

[chrome nova]

Hey speaking of bosses that suck, wildy bosses

[obsidian venture]

Wildy bosses are fine what

Very accessible

[rare grotto]

show your wildy boss kc right now

[winged mantle]

Hard disagree

[meager flame]

i guess it depends on what you mean by suck

i do think they're boring pvm fights

[tender harness]

I mean you can disagree but you're still wrong

[obsidian venture]

Boring sure. Easy? Very

100kc 😭

[tacit pendant]

Wildy bosses are in a great spot?

[tender harness]

reported for account sharing HF

[meager flame]

arguably they're too good lol

[obsidian venture]

Amazing rework for them so I’m genuinely wondering what they mean

[meager flame]

at least the singles versions i'd say are probably too good